Latest / Pediatrics Now: Cases Updates and Discussions for the Busy Pediatric Practitioner / Migraine Headache and Advances in Management
Transcript
- 0:00I'm Holly Wehment, and this is Pediatrics Now, cases, updates,
- 0:05and discussions for the busy pediatric practitioner.
- 0:11This talk is from our Pediatric Grand Rounds.
- 0:15Pediatrics Now is brought to you by the Department of Pediatrics at UT Health
- 0:20San Antonio and University Health's new Women's and Children's Hospital. Let's listen in.
- 0:27And thank you for attending Pediatric Grand Rounds at UT Health San Antonio.
- 0:32Our speaker today is Dr. Azra Akbar.
- 0:35It's my pleasure to introduce Dr. Akbar. She is an associate professor in the
- 0:39Department of Pediatrics.
- 0:40She is our pediatric neurologist, epileptologist, and headache management specialist.
- 0:46Dr. Akbar received her medical degree from Dow Medical College in Karachi, Pakistan.
- 0:51And then after moving to the United States, she did her residency at Cardinal
- 0:55Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis, Missouri.
- 0:58After that, she did her Child Neurology Fellowship and Neurophysiology Fellowship,
- 1:02UT Southwestern, followed by her Headache Fellowship and Allison Headache Management
- 1:07in Baylor, Dallas. That's a lot of fellowships.
- 1:10And then Dr. Akbar's faculty at UIC in Peoria before coming to UT Health San
- 1:16Antonio in February 2024.
- 1:18Thank you so much. Thank you for the introduction, Dr. Raj. I appreciate it.
- 1:21Okay. Can you, I can see my slides. Should I just start?
- 1:26Yes. Okay, sounds good. All right, thank you again.
- 1:30So the objectives for this talk are to talk about common headache disorders
- 1:36in the pediatric population, and the most common would be migraine.
- 1:41Migraine without aura could also be migraine with aura.
- 1:44I'd also talk about other headache disorders that we commonly see,
- 1:48including chronic daily headache, chronic migraines, and most importantly,
- 1:52medication overuse headaches, because that is preventable.
- 1:55And quite difficult to treat if it comes on and is not treated appropriately at the right time.
- 2:01Other factors contributing to migraine and recent advances in management,
- 2:07including neuromodulation and injections other than just Botox, the CGRPs.
- 2:13There is quite a lot to talk about and it is rather exciting because I think
- 2:18oral medications can be quite tedious and there is a risk of medication non-compliance
- 2:23in our pediatric population with that.
- 2:26So the pediatric migraine, so migraine prevalence in children can be about 3 to 10, 15 percent.
- 2:34And out of all the cases of headache encounters that we see in our clinic,
- 2:40about 80 percent or more of them, 50 to 80 percent of them are actually migraine related.
- 2:44There are other headaches we see, like cluster, tension, sunk headache,
- 2:49suna headache, medication overuse, chronic daily headaches, new daily persistent
- 2:52headache, which is not as common, certainly.
- 2:55Some of them are actually more in the older population anyway.
- 2:57So migraine in our pediatric neurology clinic would be the most commonly diagnosed headache disorder.
- 3:03And the ratio, as we know, is before puberty is equal, but after puberty,
- 3:07there is a female preponderance.
- 3:09And the theory with that, we'll talk about that more, is also because CGRP apparently
- 3:14is higher It is elevated at the time of migraine, but it's also elevated in the female gender.
- 3:20Most patients will continue from their childhood to their adulthood to continue to have migraines.
- 3:25And 25% will transition into other headache disorders, but 50% will continue to have migraines.
- 3:31I'm just, disclosure, I am a migrainer. And I think the first migraine that
- 3:36I've had was when I was five.
- 3:38And I've had migraines with or I have a pleated migraine. And I've tried several
- 3:42of these medications on myself. And we can talk about that. It's an end of one.
- 3:46But still, as a patient, there'll be some, a patient talking as well.
- 3:50Okay, so migraine in history, so 1550 BC, apparently that's the first time it
- 3:56was described by Evarius papyrus, and bloodletting was a treatment that was
- 4:02used. So bloodletting was an Asian treatment.
- 4:05Hippocrates mentioned it as also described it then in 460 BC as a bright light in the eye,
- 4:11and in 17th century, Thomas Willis founded this vascular theory,
- 4:17which honestly, we are still to date this vascular theory about the decrease
- 4:21in blood flow or cortical spreading depression as the other term we use is still used.
- 4:27And then Mobius, I think this is the doctor from Mobius syndrome,
- 4:311898, who described it as parenchyma is the master and circulation is the servant.
- 4:36Took me a little bit to understand, but I think what they mean is parenchyma
- 4:40is stagnant and circulation is what makes the migraine dependent on it.
- 4:45So when the circulation changes, is the parenchyma suffers the pain.
- 4:49These are very interesting theories from centuries ago, but we are still kind
- 4:55of working around those theories.
- 4:57The first medication for management of migraine was around 1918,
- 5:02the 1920, and which, you know, is the DHE.
- 5:05And then in the 1980s, CGRP research had started.
- 5:09CGRP was discovered as the calcitonin gene-related peptide, which is involved
- 5:16in the neurogenic inflammation. These are the theories of migraines that started coming out.
- 5:21The International Headache Society, and that has been quoted in this presentation
- 5:26many times, and we'll talk about that.
- 5:28Their classification started coming out in the 1980s.
- 5:32And CGRP research continued.
- 5:35Interestingly, it started in 1980s, but anti-CGRP has been approved like literally four years ago.
- 5:42So that's interesting, but it is also exciting.
- 5:45So again, we'll talk about what exactly is a migraine, how does it differ? How does it differ?
- 5:51So migraine is a complex, debilitating, recurrent, multi-system disorder that
- 5:57is multifactorial also and has a genetic component.
- 6:01I think one important thing to take home from this presentation would be that
- 6:06migraine can respond to a single pill, like you can use Eleval,
- 6:10Topamax, the proeptidine, which are the most commonly used ones.
- 6:13But if it is a chronic migraine and it is multifactorial, which it could very
- 6:18well be, that is patients, significant number of patients will have a history
- 6:23of depression, anxiety, some other mood disorder.
- 6:27You know, psychosocial issues, family history, obesity, low self-esteem, all of that.
- 6:33They usually will not respond to a single pill.
- 6:36It has to be a multidisciplinary approach. So a multi-center,
- 6:41like a headache center where there's involvement of perhaps psychologists,
- 6:46psychiatrists, and a headache neurologist, all of that is usually very helpful.
- 6:52Also weight loss, lifestyle modification, and using natural substances should
- 6:57also be advised other than hydration and adequate sleep.
- 7:00We'll talk about that more, but I just wanted to say this, that it is multifactorial
- 7:04and migraine is chronic and debilitating and migraine can be pretty stressful to the patient's life.
- 7:11Okay, so migraine without aura, and this is the classification that I just mentioned
- 7:16according to the International Headache Society.
- 7:19This is the most recent classification, and it's published in the Headache Journal of Cephalgia 2018.
- 7:24So migraine without aura, so a migraine differs from your other headaches,
- 7:28like tension headaches or whatever we'll describe.
- 7:30There are five attacks, usually unilateral, usually patients have sat behind
- 7:34the eye, pulsating, moderate to severe intensity, aggravated by routine physical activity.
- 7:40And during the headache, the patient will have one of the two,
- 7:43like either nausea or vomiting or photophobia or phonophobia.
- 7:46Usually there's a family history and it's not better explained by other diagnostic criterias.
- 7:51Then the migraine with aura is obviously a similar presentation,
- 7:55except it comes with an aura, which is gradual, starts with a slow activity
- 7:59of five minutes or more, and then will go on from five to 60 minutes.
- 8:04And within 60 minutes you'll see the headache and it could be a positive or
- 8:08a negative aura and aura would be visual, sensory, speech, motor, brainstem.
- 8:12I didn't go into all of the types of other migraine with aura but hemiplegic
- 8:17migraine only because I have seen it more here at the center in the past nine
- 8:21months that I've been here and also it could be quite stressful because people
- 8:25could think it's a TIA or is it not.
- 8:28Okay so this is again filling the four criteria that we talked about earlier,
- 8:33and an aura, which would consist of both fully reversible motor symptoms and
- 8:37fully reversible either visual, sensory, or speech motor language.
- 8:40This is, like I said, in 1996 is when the first gene was identified,
- 8:46and there are three genes that are identified with it, and that's the CACNA, ATP1A, SCN1A.
- 8:53It's interesting because CACNA, ATP1A, as you know, are associated with other
- 8:58neurological disorders, SCN1A with other epilepsy syndrome disorders as well,
- 9:02but not necessarily, like doesn't mean it has to.
- 9:05Okay. Chronic migraine is, I think, what we see mostly in our clinic.
- 9:11Patients are usually very appropriately managed by the pediatricians here,
- 9:14and then they come to us. Usually we don't see the episodic ones.
- 9:18Of course, we see the chronic ones, which is patients having more than 15 days
- 9:23of headaches for the past three months.
- 9:25Migraine with or out, migraine without, not better explained by,
- 9:28and of course, the patient will tell you that they have other symptoms,
- 9:31and they respond to the medication, which is used typically for migraine.
- 9:35This, I made two slides on it, because I think this is, if there's one thing
- 9:39we need to understand from this lecture, well, two, three things,
- 9:41but one of the things that we need to understand would be medication overuse
- 9:45headaches, because it becomes very difficult to treat, but it is preventable,
- 9:50So prevention is better than cure. So preventing it. And how do we prevent it?
- 9:55Preventing medication overuse headache is more than 15 days of headaches a month
- 9:58over the past three months because the patient is overusing the medications
- 10:02for the past three months.
- 10:04Some are worse than the others. So if they're using 15 days of,
- 10:07you know, the over at the counter and set and all, that's 15 days.
- 10:10Okay. But 10 days a month of these ergots, triptans, that's why whenever we
- 10:15prescribe the triptan on the script, we write not more than 10 a month.
- 10:19So we don't prescribe that much anyways, right?
- 10:21Or other opioids, we do not like to use that. Risk of medication overuse is much, much higher.
- 10:27And of course, some of these other medications. And this is preventable.
- 10:31So how do we prevent it? We prevent it by initiating lifestyle modification sooner.
- 10:38And initiating a daily preventative medication if needed, if they meet criteria,
- 10:42if they have chronic migraines, sooner, rather than just giving PRN medications
- 10:46and they get into the habit of it.
- 10:48So the neurons in the brain called the microglia will start to appreciate pain
- 10:52more, and it's called central sensitization.
- 10:55So it becomes harder and harder and harder.
- 10:58And when the patients come to us and we tell them, don't take your Tylenol that
- 11:02you're taking every day, that kind of really upsets.
- 11:05It can be quite upsetting because it helps them at least for the first few hours.
- 11:08So it's intimidating for them to just stop the medication.
- 11:12This slide explains the pathophysiology of migraine as well as the other two
- 11:16slides. The pathophysiology of migraine is thought to be initiated by the hypothalamus,
- 11:21which is the early phase.
- 11:23Hypothalamus apparently will cause the premonitory phase and then activation
- 11:27of the trigeminal vascular system.
- 11:29Which is the trigeminal nerve, which is the big, you know, the nerve that decusates
- 11:33into the brainstem and then projects to the thalamus, which is involved in the
- 11:37propagation of migraine.
- 11:39And the term they use is cortical spreading depression, CST.
- 11:43Stages of migraine, not necessarily, but a lot of people will have that prodome and aura.
- 11:48A lot of people will actually have yawning also as before their migraine starts.
- 11:53So this is kind of what we had talked about in our second slide that mentioned
- 11:58even in the 17th and the 18th century, when they said the parenchyma is the
- 12:01master and the worker is the, I think this is what they meant by the vasculature,
- 12:05because the blood flow is decreasing is the thought.
- 12:08The term they use is cortical spreading depression, which is depolarization
- 12:12and decrease of blood flow followed by a period of hyperpolarization.
- 12:16And that is two to six millimeters per minute.
- 12:21Another slide.
- 12:24Okay. This is another slide that explains this better.
- 12:29That is the brainstem pathway that modulates the sensory input.
- 12:33As you can see over here, these are the trigeminal, these are the meningeal vessels.
- 12:38And these meningeal vessels pass through the trigeminal, go through the trigeminal nerve.
- 12:46And as they pass through the trigeminal ganglion, they synapse over here in
- 12:51the midbrain or the pons, and they decusate over here, second-order neuron,
- 12:55and then third-order neuron goes to the thalamus.
- 12:58But over here, they also decusate and they project into the superior salvatore
- 13:03nucleus, which is involved with lacrimation, etc.
- 13:07So people who have a stronger arc between the trigeminal ganglion,
- 13:11and superior salvatore nucleus are the ones that have the trigeminal autonomic
- 13:17cephalgias, which includes trigeminal neuralgia, if you've seen it,
- 13:20or sunct or suna headaches, or even cluster headaches in which they will have
- 13:24tearing from the eye and injection from the eye and other signs like that.
- 13:29As pediatric neurologists who also manage headaches, in our clinic template,
- 13:37usually we also include this in our template, actually, and we like to talk
- 13:42to patients about this, families about this.
- 13:44A lot of times, a smaller child, a younger child will maybe have migraines, but they can't speak.
- 13:50So colic, infantile colic, certainly, abdominal migraines, and they can evolve
- 13:55into cephalic migraines later, cyclic vomiting, et cetera, benign peroxis,
- 13:59well, vertigo, actually bed wetting, nosebleed, teeth grinding is also included,
- 14:04which is not mentioned here.
- 14:05I've talked to my other, my senior colleagues, especially Dr.
- 14:09Gross and all, and they've been managing patients with headaches for quite a long time, pretty well.
- 14:16And they've also mentioned cyclic vomiting and abdominal migraines, et cetera.
- 14:20So working hand in hand with other subspecialists, for example,
- 14:24PEDS-GI would be very helpful.
- 14:26And at the center, we do a pretty good job, all of us at that.
- 14:30PEDS-MIDAS, this is reported in a lot of studies.
- 14:34Whenever we are doing objective data classification, comparing Topamax or amytriptyline
- 14:39or Botox, and you want to see, did it work, did it not, headache diary is great,
- 14:43but this is a very objective method and this is quick.
- 14:47We give them to the, we give it to the families in clinic and they fill it out.
- 14:50The higher the score, obviously, it's not good, small, better score is,
- 14:53you know, it just asks you how many days in the past three months you've had
- 14:56an improvement or worsening.
- 14:58How many times did you miss time or school or other activities?
- 15:03Prodomal symptoms are actually quite common in our children.
- 15:08And children with headaches, like we've talked about before,
- 15:11that's why we keep talking about lifestyle modification and not just a single medication approach.
- 15:17A single L-level or single tokamaks approach will probably not be effective
- 15:21if it's pretty intense chronic migraines.
- 15:23So looking at other risk factors and why they are there and if they can be addressed
- 15:27and how they can be addressed, that's why a multidisciplinary,
- 15:30multifactorial approach would be good.
- 15:32So screening them for anxiety and depression is very helpful.
- 15:36We work well here hand-in-hand with the pediatricians also.
- 15:40The PHQ depression assessment, and there are, of course, several other tools
- 15:44that the PCPs here use and very well managed.
- 15:48Otherwise, this is a good slide because a lot of times patients will come and
- 15:52they will ask why my MRI is normal, but why am I having this?
- 15:56So it's great that the MRI is normal.
- 15:59And usually in a migraine, the MRI would be normal.
- 16:02Because it's a diagnosis of exclusion, remember? So the things that are associated
- 16:07with it could be genetic.
- 16:08As we know, quite a few genes have been identified. The first one was in 1996
- 16:11for the amoebligic migraines, which was a long time ago, 1996.
- 16:15Environment, stress, elevation height, diet, exercise, keep talking about that,
- 16:21diet and exercise is very important.
- 16:24And menstruation, pregnancy. After menopause, they can get better because estrogen
- 16:29can cause more migraines. Estrogen is a pro-convulsant and also can cause migraines.
- 16:33So menstrual migraines, a fancy term, is called catamenial migraines.
- 16:38And there are some triptans which are long-acting, so they work very well for that.
- 16:42And we'll talk about that for cataminin. Because if they don't have migraines
- 16:46any time else, they only have it during the period, then we just give that to them.
- 16:49And again, this explains the theory that I just went over.
- 16:53Hypothalamic activation, cortical spreading depression, and release of these CGRPs.
- 16:58CGRPs are important because it's new, it's recently come out,
- 17:01it's exciting, so we'll talk about that.
- 17:03So the first medication that ever came out was in 1920. T, sumatriptan was approved in 1991.
- 17:09Sumatriptan is very well tolerated, but I'm sorry, it's very effective,
- 17:13but not as well tolerated as others like MagSalt.
- 17:15So that's usually my preference. And then Botox was approved in 2018.
- 17:20There was a study called the PRE-EMT trial that included about 1,300 adults,
- 17:25and it was over a period of 52 weeks.
- 17:28And after that, and that's called the PRE-EMPT trial, and I'll show you slides
- 17:32about the 31 site injections.
- 17:35And also, Botox actually was first used and approved for wrinkles,
- 17:40and it was first approved in April 2005.
- 17:43In those time period, people noted that their migraines are significantly improved.
- 17:48After that, this PRE-EMPT trial was done, and Botox was given.
- 17:51And then in 2018, which is actually much later, so the advances have been between
- 17:562018, I mean, after 2010, there wasn't much after Botox.
- 18:00So this is when the CGRP started coming out and the CGRP inhibitors have been approved.
- 18:052019, this lamcy ditin, which is, I'll talk about it briefly.
- 18:10This is also new, but it's approved for 18 years and older, overall well tolerated,
- 18:14but can cause a lot of sedation.
- 18:16And then of course, we'll talk about more anti-CGRPs, which are called G-PANs.
- 18:20So the other CGRPs in 2018 that were approved, they are injections in 2019 is
- 18:26oral. So we'll talk about that in a minute.
- 18:28We'll start by talking about treatment that includes like triptans,
- 18:32which most of us who have treated headaches are quite familiar with.
- 18:36There are seven of these. The first one that we talk about, the one that's most
- 18:39commonly used is sumatriptan. It's fine. It's good.
- 18:42But usually side effects are a little bit more, especially nausea or vomiting.
- 18:46In about 2015, I believe they came out with a patch, but the batch got significant
- 18:51side effects including burning so they withdrew that.
- 18:54So now the one that's used, Treximet is very commonly used. It comes with an NSAID in it.
- 19:00The one I use commonly, most commonly is this Rhesatriptan Maxol.
- 19:05It also comes in oral dissolvable.
- 19:07It is approved for children six years and older.
- 19:10The other ones are for 12 years and older. So Rhesatriptan really works good
- 19:15in my experience and six years and older.
- 19:17So the other Everyone's Zolmitriptan is fine. It comes in a spray,
- 19:20but then again, then we talked about Zolmitriptan.
- 19:23There are other devices that are approved, and we will talk about that,
- 19:26which is actually quite exciting because medication needs medication compliance.
- 19:31And if the patient is not medically compliant, then that's a little problem.
- 19:35So if we have CGRP injections, they're once a month.
- 19:38Botox is once in three months. So it's much, much easier to do.
- 19:42And these neuromodulation devices that we'll talk about, you know, you don't have to eat it.
- 19:47So hopefully this is, and I've had it done on myself. I'll talk about that a little bit.
- 19:52So again, just talks about how these triptans are supplied.
- 19:57These are usually easily covered by insurance. Most, even patients who come
- 20:00to us in clinic have already been tried, have already been prescribed at least
- 20:04sumatriptan by their PCP.
- 20:06So that's good.
- 20:08How do they act? 5-HT1D and 1B receptor.
- 20:121D is involved with the release of neurotransmitters. Again,
- 20:15substance P, which is the pain, and the CGRP.
- 20:17Again, tryptans act also on the vasoconstrictor through the 1B,
- 20:21and they cause vasoconstriction.
- 20:23Because again, theory is cortical spreading depression, decreased amount of
- 20:27blood flow, so constriction will increase the blood.
- 20:30But of course, it can be associated if the patient is older,
- 20:33which is usually not a problem, weed counter, but if they have risk factors
- 20:36and there's a risk of TIA, but that's in the much, much older population with several risk factors.
- 20:42The newest medication that has come out acts on the 5-HT1F, which is the Lamsey-Dytan,
- 20:47and we'll talk about that.
- 20:49Again, they're all approved for 18 years and older. This is a good slide because
- 20:53I think our pediatricians who send patients to us use triptans quite frequently,
- 20:57just to know that the half-life of naratriptan and Frovatryptan is very good.
- 21:03Frovatryptan is something that we use for catamenial migraines.
- 21:06So if there's catamenial migraines, it's only, I started one day before the
- 21:09period and I say, take it for the next five days and you just give them six
- 21:13or so and it works out fairly well.
- 21:16But other than that, Sumatryptan that you already know about,
- 21:18but Rezatryptan is my go-to.
- 21:21This is a picture I took from my phone and you can see the sunset.
- 21:26And this is actually the Illinois River, and this is from my condo,
- 21:31and this is UICOM Peoria. This is kind of behind this, this is Caterpillar.
- 21:37So that's a view from the winter there in Peoria.
- 21:42Okay, so Topamax is one of the other than the neuromodulation devices and the
- 21:47PRN medications. This is the daily preventative medication that's approved for
- 21:50children 12 years and older.
- 21:53And I usually start at 1 to 2 milligrams per kilo, and then you can go up,
- 21:56of course. With an older child, you can start at 25.
- 21:59Usually, American Headache Society or A and even 75 milligrams total,
- 22:04but that's for an adult, usually. Side effects, as you know,
- 22:08are word-finding difficulty, weight loss, tingling, numbness.
- 22:11Territogenic side effects are also, can be reported. Right hair loss,
- 22:16actually, some patients have also told me about that.
- 22:19Then propanolol, we don't use it so much in the pediatric population for risk
- 22:23of, of course, bradycardia, hypertension.
- 22:25Elable imitriptyline is quite often used. And of course, all the dry mouth,
- 22:30dry eyes, all those symptoms can occur.
- 22:33Depakote works well also for mood. and we can start at 15 or so.
- 22:38But of course, you have to look for any kind of mitochondrial disorder if they
- 22:41have any of that, weight gain, hair loss, et cetera.
- 22:45And of course, teletogenicity, which is important.
- 22:48Most of my colleagues at our center, we use a lot of Topamax and our epilepsy colleagues like Dr.
- 22:55Linda Leary, who are more experienced in epilepsy, they use that.
- 22:59This is great because if the patient also has a history of absinthe epilepsy,
- 23:02Depakote is a very good choice. if she's not a female, though, if it's a boy.
- 23:06So Depakot is my go-to for that case.
- 23:09So Ciproheptidine, I've used it a lot, especially for abdominal migraines and
- 23:14L-level. There are more studies on that.
- 23:15Lyrica is really not something I use too much because of sedation.
- 23:19Too much sedation and weight gain, don't really use that.
- 23:22Botox, we'll talk about that more in a minute. There's class one evidence.
- 23:26In the pediatric population, though, it is off-label and 75 units to 155.
- 23:32The PREEMP trial that we talked about used 155 international units,
- 23:36but they also used the follow the brain protocol, which is excellent.
- 23:40Follow the brain protocol basically meant that if the patient feels that on
- 23:44this site, on this site, they have more pain, you can use more Botox,
- 23:47which is left over because a lot will be left over.
- 23:50Occipital nerve blocks, I've done that for occipital neuronegia.
- 23:53It's very uncomfortable.
- 23:55Patients didn't, I didn't really have the best of experience.
- 23:58But so now actually we have neuromodulation devices that will address the occipital
- 24:03nerve as well as the other branches of the trigeminal nerve.
- 24:06So this is great if we can use the neuromodulation devices.
- 24:09So this is Botox. Yes, definitely. I would highly recommend that.
- 24:14Again, we talk about lifestyle modification.
- 24:17Weight loss, regular exercise, hydration, sleep hygiene, identifying triggers,
- 24:21eating regular healthy meals, avoiding foods which are processed.
- 24:26And processed aged meat, aged cheeses are not recommended.
- 24:32Then I highly encourage all of our physicians and our practitioners who manage
- 24:38headaches at our center, encourage the use of lifestyle modification and the
- 24:43vitamin supplementation,
- 24:44coenzyme Q10 and riboflavin, both of them support the mitochondria.
- 24:49The concept I think behind this is that migraineurs also have some form of undisclosed
- 24:54mitochondrial dysfunctioning.
- 24:56And they respond well to coenzyme Q10.
- 24:59There are enough studies even on riboflavin that it is comparable to other preventative medication.
- 25:05200 to 400, very easily tolerated side effects are it discolors your urine.
- 25:10It's also found in food, like in almonds. You can, but a supplementation is
- 25:15fine. Coenzyme, Q10, same thing, 100 milligram.
- 25:18Magnesium. Magnesium actually is an NMDA receptor antagonist.
- 25:22So what it does is that it stabilizes the neural membranes.
- 25:25So it decreases the excitability, the hyperexcitability. So magnesium is great
- 25:30side effect as diarrhea, as we know.
- 25:32Melatonin, there has been some studies on it.
- 25:35Most of them will show that three milligram is right, the appropriate dose in
- 25:39pediatrics, but in adults. So this works very well for something called,
- 25:43Hypnic headaches, which is not seen in the pediatric population.
- 25:47So that's why there's no slide on it.
- 25:48But hypnic headache is actually a side effect of medication overuse headaches,
- 25:52after which the patient is so primed that they wake up in the middle of the
- 25:56night with a headache and the MRI is normal.
- 25:58These are older people. They respond very well to melatonin.
- 26:01Melatonin, it will not hurt. But in adults, of course, you use a higher dose.
- 26:05We can use six or nine milligrams. But in children, this is what we would use.
- 26:09Mike, I do recommend using something called Mike Relief. It's over-the-counter.
- 26:14You can get all of this individually, or you could get Micrelief or Microwint,
- 26:18and they're over-the-counter.
- 26:20I get mine from Amazon. It's like, I think, $39 or $29 for more than a month's supply.
- 26:25And it's one pill, and it has these. It has coenzyme Q10, riboflavin,
- 26:31magnesium already in it.
- 26:33So instead of taking, you know, just something to think about.
- 26:36This is a slide of Alice in Wonderland syndrome depiction, which was actually
- 26:41seen a long time ago, but it was also reported after Second World War when patients
- 26:46were subjected to trauma, traumatic brain injuries.
- 26:50Okay, so again, we talk about Botox. I just told you about the pre-EMT trial a little bit earlier.
- 26:56The pre-EMT trial was in 2010, where 1,300 individuals, adults,
- 27:01were studied, and they showed a good response.
- 27:03So every three months is kind of these injections. there are 31 site injections,
- 27:09155 international units.
- 27:11How does Botox, like how does this act? It acts on the synaptobreven B or the
- 27:16SNAP protein and it cleaves it.
- 27:19And this protein is associated with the release of acetylcholine and acetylcholine will not be released.
- 27:23And when it is not released, acetylcholine is associated with pain transmission,
- 27:29muscle contraction, and also actually CGRP release. So it keeps coming to the CGRP.
- 27:34So once we get rid of that, this doesn't happen. So this process doesn't happen.
- 27:38So this is the part behind it.
- 27:40These are the injection site reactions, the sites that we do.
- 27:44I have had Botox done for headaches. And this area is very easy to do.
- 27:51I've done it on myself because this is a fleshy, beefy muscle.
- 27:54So this really does not hurt.
- 27:56When I do Botox or when we all should be doing Botox, I would advise to start
- 28:02in this area, in the back, because it's very easy to tolerate for the patient.
- 28:06So now the patient starts off better, followed by this, the temporalis muscle.
- 28:10And the most painful is actually in this region because this is a tight muscle, right?
- 28:14So the headache, the forehead, it does hurt. So you can use other techniques
- 28:18like using ice, et cetera.
- 28:20But honestly, very well tolerated.
- 28:22Usually when patients hear 31 injections, they're like, oh my God, 31 injections.
- 28:27But really, they're like an acupuncture needle, very easy to tolerate.
- 28:32And like I said, it's really worth it because if it works for you,
- 28:35it's every three months. And if you can get rid of the daily medicine, that would be great.
- 28:40This is the protocol. This is what they used, how they described it,
- 28:44and the preempt protocol.
- 28:45However, the good thing is that they used follow the brain protocol,
- 28:50which means the leftover Botox, whichever is leftover because 155 units,
- 28:5445 is leftover because it's 200 nitrogen units.
- 28:56You can give it, you know, spread it out to whatever the patient prefers for
- 29:01the management of their headaches. So there are about between 2021 to now,
- 29:07there are 18 studies on children.
- 29:09We published this at my old center. We studied this on about 34 patients and
- 29:15they had an excellent response to Botox. and most of them, but they were my older kids.
- 29:21They were 15 and older. And by the time this was completed, they were already 18.
- 29:24And there are, of course, other studies too. So now there are about 18 studies
- 29:28on Botox for adolescents.
- 29:32It's hard to get insurance approval, but as long as we document that the patient
- 29:36has been tried on two classes of adequately tried doses of medications,
- 29:42including a beta blocker or a tricyclic antidepressant,
- 29:45and they have been tried for the past three months, they continue to suffer,
- 29:48They have more than 15 days of headache a month for the past three months.
- 29:53Hopefully we can work on it. It takes about two months to get that approved.
- 29:57This is my niece. I have three nieces, but this is one of my niece, Barbara.
- 30:02We talk about anti-CGRP. So again, even in the other slides,
- 30:07we've talked about CGRP because it's one of the more newer, more exciting other than neuromodulation.
- 30:12So CGRP is the protein that is released from the nerve terminals for propagation of pain.
- 30:18It is a vasodilator, and it's also pro-inflammatory. The drugs,
- 30:21and it's been studied since 1980s, as I spoke to you about it in the earlier
- 30:25slides, The medications have come out in 2018 and 2019. The research has been ongoing.
- 30:29So there are some which are called G-pans, which is the Ubrel-V and the Rima
- 30:35G-pans that we have commonly more easy to use.
- 30:38So those will directly block the signal.
- 30:41They'll directly block the receptor. And they are oral.
- 30:43They're a small molecule oral, so you can give that. The other ones,
- 30:47which are the other anti-CGRPs, for example, Amovig, Ajovi, et cetera,
- 30:52Amgality, they are injections and they are just once a month injection usually.
- 30:57With some, you'll give a loading dose, but not others. Yeah,
- 30:59so I just talked about it, right?
- 31:01Ajovi and these are the ones at the bottom. These are the injections and the
- 31:05ones at the top are the oral ones.
- 31:07And the injections are just once a month. So the Amovig was approved in 2018.
- 31:13HOV was approved also in 2018 M-Galitine 2018
- 31:16and then there's a newer one which I actually have not used in
- 31:192020 but I have used Amovig and M-Galitimol and the G-Pants which are the oral
- 31:25ones which are the direct receptor blockers they are and you have the three
- 31:30kinds right the Rima G-Pant and the Ubra G-Pant and the Ziva G-Pant is a nasal
- 31:34spray I haven't used yet there are no studies no published data on children yet,
- 31:40Okay. But there is a consensus statement that we can use it if everything else is failing.
- 31:46And I have used it. And not only I have, Dr.
- 31:49Brian Fox has used it quite frequently. I think Dr. Gross has too.
- 31:54And I've had a very good response to this.
- 31:57Ubrelby, I just talked to you about it. This is the oral, right?
- 32:00The GPED, 2019. So this more recent, EnderTech 2020.
- 32:04All right. The other ones I haven't really used so much. The most recent is
- 32:08this nasal spray, the Zabzri Prat.
- 32:11Clinical trials are underway, but there are expert consensus guidelines, okay?
- 32:16And we can use it just like Botox, even though it's for 18 and above,
- 32:20we have used it and we've had some good studies to prove our results.
- 32:25Then we talk about something even more newer, something less invasive and something
- 32:29you don't have to take every day.
- 32:31They're definitely not my mouth. So no systemic side effects.
- 32:34So remote electrical neuromodulation. There are several types.
- 32:37I'll talk to you about it, but this is the most commonly used one.
- 32:40I know at our headache center, Dr. Gross and Dr. Fox, they have used it. I have used it.
- 32:44We've had a good response. This is pretty simple.
- 32:48You don't even like literally you just sign it off. Formal prescription doesn't
- 32:52even need to be done. And it's $49 for this.
- 32:55In June of this year at the American Headache Society conference, I had it done on my cell.
- 33:00As a migraineur, I feel like it was pretty effective. You can use it as needed,
- 33:04but also as a preventative for about 30, 45 minutes or so. It's to your phone and it's an app.
- 33:10It's for $49, but you can only use it, I think, 12 times and then you need to
- 33:15buy another one. It's like $89, but you get a discount if you have three of them.
- 33:18This is rather better tolerated and easier to do.
- 33:22So this is using neuromodulation, electrical neuromodulation.
- 33:27This is also FDA approved, but this is a magnetic stimulator,
- 33:31transcranial magnetic stimulator, and it's approved for prevention as well as migraine with aura,
- 33:37which is good because migraine with aura doesn't really, you know,
- 33:40there's a lot of concern about using tryptan with that, even though the statement
- 33:44for migraine with aura is that tryptan can be used unless the patient has other
- 33:48risk factors predisposing them to a TIA,
- 33:51like oral contraceptive pills or other risk factors like cardiac problems.
- 33:55But anyways, so this is something, and I've had it done on myself. It was pretty good.
- 34:01Trascutaneous vagal nerve stimulator, as you already know, vagus nerve is the
- 34:04largest nerve. Goes from the brain all the way down to the gut.
- 34:08Vagal nerve stimulator has been used for epilepsy for quite some time.
- 34:12This is just kind of stimulating the vagal nerve. You use a goop and then you do this.
- 34:16In my reading and listening to several lectures, apparently the VA uses this
- 34:22a lot for episodic cluster headaches. And this is great because in the past,
- 34:26what was used for cluster headaches, right? So many people coming in, no oxygen.
- 34:30So that was hard. So apparently this is working very well for our older male
- 34:34population or even our middle age population for cluster headaches.
- 34:37For in children, I have not used it yet.
- 34:41These are not as easy to obtain and we really need to do a lot of lobbying to
- 34:45work with insurance companies, but it is approved for age 12 and 17.
- 34:49Cephali, these are non-invasive external trigeminal nerve stimulator.
- 34:54I have as a patient, and I speak not as a doctor, I speak as a patient.
- 34:59I've had cephali used on my cell, but that was a long time ago,
- 35:02and it was quite uncomfortable because you could feel the buzzing sensation
- 35:05when it was trying to hyperstimulate the trochlear, the supraorbital nerve.
- 35:11So it was quite irritating.
- 35:12And that is what in the following years most patients have said. So cephali is very easy.
- 35:17It is $400. You don't even need a script for it. You just go online, you get it.
- 35:21And you use it as needed, but it really does need a lot of getting used to.
- 35:26Yeah, so most patients I feel were not very compliant, even though it was so
- 35:30easy to do. Then there's a new one, Relivion.
- 35:34Relivion apparently is much less uncomfortable, but it's harder to obtain and
- 35:40it's a little bit more expensive. I think it goes in the thousands, 1,000 something.
- 35:45And the thing is that not only does it stimulate the front, it also stimulates
- 35:50the occipital area, so the occipital nerve.
- 35:52Most patients, what I've heard, will say it is much easier to tolerate.
- 35:57Again, these are the neuromodulation devices that we talked about,
- 36:01and this also tells you the price.
- 36:03See, Cephali is $430, and Nerevio is $49 for the first device and then onwards.
- 36:11So this is not bad. These are just some things to think out of the box when
- 36:16the patient is medically refractory.
- 36:19They've tried amitriptoline, topamax, then you gave zonosemide,
- 36:22they're still having, and then they're also taking Tylenol every day.
- 36:25And now they have medication-overused headaches and it's just not working out.
- 36:29Instead of giving another pill, think about Botox, think about CGRPs,
- 36:33and of course, these other devices as well.
- 36:36So the International Headache Society's statement is that the neuromodulation
- 36:40devices modulate the brain activities, spinal cord, peripheral nerves by means
- 36:44of different methods, including electrical current, magnetic field,
- 36:48and other device-mediated modalities.
- 36:51Oops, I missed a slide. This is a very important slide. Thanks to Dr. Fox.
- 36:59So CHAMP trial, which was in 2017, this is a very important thing because this
- 37:05was a big study that was being done on children comparing the two most prescribed
- 37:09medications for headache,
- 37:11amitriptaline and topomec, and
- 37:12comparing them to placebo, and it was found that this had to be aborted.
- 37:16Because they found that these medicines were no better effective than placebo was.
- 37:21And patients actually had a high placebo response rate, which again comes to
- 37:26the point about how effective will a single medication be for a patient who
- 37:30has migraines, but he doesn't just have migraines. It is multifactorial.
- 37:34He also has depression, anxiety, school stress, family history of migraines.
- 37:37He has a poor diet. He doesn't sleep well, and he does not eat well,
- 37:41and he does not exercise at all.
- 37:42And he's depressed. So usually just this one pill will not work very well.
- 37:46So placebo, working with other modalities, including massage,
- 37:50acupuncture, et cetera, diet, exercise.
- 37:53So those were the outcomes. Exercise is important.
- 37:57I mean, the old theory is, yes, it releases beta endorphins,
- 38:00which are your happy hormones, natural hormones. But also what kind of exercise?
- 38:04Weight training, weight lifting, increasing lean muscle body mass,
- 38:07because there's a direct association with improvement of headaches with increase
- 38:11in lean muscle body mass, as well as with weight loss. Lean muscle body mass. Yeah.
- 38:18So a lot of patients will say that when we exercise, our headaches get worse,
- 38:22which is possible certainly because migraines get worse with routine physical activity.
- 38:26So don't really exercise during a migraine, but it's also a protective mechanism.
- 38:31And the theory is that because of the production of lactate also, this can happen.
- 38:34But regular exercise during periods of relatively low frequency of migraines
- 38:39or a dull headache, not an acute status migraines, is highly encouraged.
- 38:43And regular exercise as well as increasing lean body muscle mass is highly recommended.
- 38:48Interestingly, AAN's guidelines is the first line treatment is ibuprofen,
- 38:52which is, I mentioned that because that is how most of our pediatricians here treat the patients.
- 38:57And when they come to clinic to us, this is kind of what they've been on.
- 39:00I just wanted to include this slide. This is approved for 18 years and older.
- 39:04There was an earlier slide on triptans that mentioned how triptans act.
- 39:08So the ditans also act like the triptan, except they don't cause vasoconstration.
- 39:13They act on 5-HT1F, not 1B, because 1B is where it causes vasoconstriction.
- 39:18So they do not, which is great.
- 39:20But there's a lot of sedation associated with it. It's usually in A.
- 39:24I've seen it being used in the older population, but so they can become very sedated and driving.
- 39:29It's something I've not so far used DITIN for a pediatric patient yet,
- 39:34because I have so many other interesting toys right now to play with.
- 39:37So it's like, you know, I've got so many choices now.
- 39:40So tryptans, you already know about. Dytans, we talked about.
- 39:44There's just a slide going over.
- 39:46You know, G-pans are the oral CGRPs.
- 39:49And the monoclonal antibodies which you know about are your injections.
- 39:52And of course, Botox, I am a big proponent of that.
- 39:55Side effects, of course. Anybody can have side effects. I've had side effects.
- 39:59Botox can cause like muscle twitching, but it can cause injection side reaction.
- 40:03But the most common side effect of CGRPs is injection side reaction.
- 40:06With Botox, really, ptosis sometimes, you know, asymmetric maybe,
- 40:10but other than that, Botox is well-tolerated otherwise.
- 40:13Propanolol, I don't use too much, and Elival and Topamax are the most commonly
- 40:17used, followed by maybe Depakote.
- 40:20A lot of people will ask, like, when do we image? Do we image?
- 40:23So do we get brain imaging? So the AN guidelines are, you know,
- 40:27the chances that you'll actually pick up on something that surgically needs
- 40:30correction is less than 2% or so.
- 40:32And there's a Choosing Wisely campaign that said that neuroimaging is only needed.
- 40:35Of course, if there are focal neurological findings, not anybody and everybody
- 40:39needs head imaging and most people with headaches don't really need an EEG unless
- 40:44you're suspecting something like Penetopolis syndrome or one of those other
- 40:49seizures disorders like gastro syndrome or, you know,
- 40:52in which there's prolonged retching and dysautonomia. But other than that, not everybody needs it.
- 40:56So this is from the ANS guidelines. I would like to thank our wonderful team
- 41:02for their help with patient management, their excellent care,
- 41:06and actually helping with this slide presentation, Dr. Fox, Dr. Sheldon Gross, Dr.
- 41:11Linda Lary, Dr. Natasha Varghese, Dr. Daniel Lapid, Dr.
- 41:14Nicole Lavin, Dr. Daniel Lanigan, Mrs.
- 41:18Sandra, and our admin support clinic nurses, and most importantly,
- 41:21our patients without whom there would be no presentations and really nothing to talk about.
- 41:28So thank you very much. I think I'm on time or maybe even faster. So any questions?
- 41:35Dr. Akbar, thank you for the wonderful presentation. From the audience,
- 41:40if you have questions, you're free to place them in the chat or you can raise
- 41:44your hand and unmute yourself.
- 41:46I guess while we're waiting for a question, I have one that is half-related maybe.
- 41:53So I get asked a lot because I see a lot of kids with hypertension,
- 41:56right? And so the question always is, does hypertension cause headaches?
- 42:00And, you know, I always get mixed answers and opinions when you ask around.
- 42:04But curious to know your thoughts on that question.
- 42:07So I would say yes to that because PFOs, for example, PFOs are directly related.
- 42:13So shunting, they say if you have a PFO, the patient will have an increased
- 42:17risk of migraine, especially with aura.
- 42:19But PFO management surgically doesn't really do that.
- 42:22So yes, basically to answer your question, if there's decrease in blood flow,
- 42:26certainly people with hypertension, if you've talked to them,
- 42:30and I'm sure you have, they will have a lot more migraines.
- 42:33If it's disturbing your vasculature, like in the slides, and it is decreasing
- 42:38or causing any form of decreased blood flow cortical spreading depression,
- 42:41I think it certainly can.
- 42:43Hence, propanolol will work. And the theory behind how these medications,
- 42:48how does propanolol not work, is because they decrease the excitability of the neurons.
- 42:54So I think it's certainly a good question.
- 42:59But yes, people with hypertension. We don't see a lot of children with hypertension,
- 43:03except if they're coming from the nephrology clinic, but yes,
- 43:06they are at risk for having more migraines. And they're easier to treat.
- 43:11Candice Sartan, I think I share a patient with you already, right?
- 43:15Yes, yes, the Candice Sartan patient, yeah.
- 43:17Candice Sartan, so yeah, so I would say yes to that.
- 43:22Thank you. We've got a question from Dr. Manalik. You can go ahead and unmute yourself.
- 43:27Hi, thank you for the wonderful presentation. I'm an outpatient pediatrician in the GenPeds group.
- 43:33So I have kind of more lifestyle-related questions.
- 43:37I've seen kids where I wonder about the effect of screen time on their,
- 43:44like as a headache trigger, but also making kids who wouldn't otherwise be prone
- 43:49to headaches or migraines be at risk because of the amount of screen time that
- 43:54they get, even if it's not sleep-related, right?
- 43:57And then the other related thing I've wondered about is head pain.
- 44:02Like sometimes patients will come in, usually like school age or teenage,
- 44:06where they are complaining of head aches, but on palpation, they actually have tenderness.
- 44:11And maybe it's because I'm a DO, but I think about the muscular strain because
- 44:16of positioning, maybe because they're holding their screens in front of them
- 44:20and they're hunched over.
- 44:22So, I wondered if there's any data or evaluation on those things. Thank you.
- 44:28Yeah, absolutely. I'll start with your second question, which is very interesting
- 44:31because, yes, this, what you're talking about, this thinness,
- 44:35that is called, the term they use for it is called allodynia.
- 44:39Allodynia. And allodynia is a term and there are actually case reports on it.
- 44:44Being a migraineur myself, I also
- 44:46have allodynia. I can never tie my hair because when I tie them, I can't.
- 44:50It just pulls on the scalp and there will be a migraine.
- 44:54A lot of patients with migraineurs hair. So we are very sensitive.
- 44:57Migraineurs are sensitive because they are sensitive to noise, light, sound.
- 45:01And there's a term they use for it called central sensitization,
- 45:04in which they are just hypervigilant.
- 45:05They are. Okay. So there. So to answer that, the palpitation,
- 45:10when you do that, that's allodynia.
- 45:13So I don't know how frequent their headaches are, and do they need to be on
- 45:17a daily preventative medication? I'm guessing yes.
- 45:19So that was central sensitization or allodynia. First question,
- 45:23yes. Screen time, I think AAP guidelines are like two hours a day maximum.
- 45:27And if you actually listen to the people who are Apple, and if you listen to
- 45:33them, I've listened to their talk.
- 45:34They say, we don't let our children near these devices.
- 45:37So these devices are addictive. They activate your limbic system.
- 45:40It's this reward, quick reward, quick reward.
- 45:43You know, I want it, I get it right now. And this is how I'm going to be now
- 45:47for the rest of my life because I need it right now.
- 45:49There's no, so it's messing with the children.
- 45:53I'm extremely against it. So screen time shouldn't be more than an hour or two hours a day.
- 45:58I mean, it's easy for me to say because I don't have any kids, but still.
- 46:02But reward, this reward system, even when we see these reels on Facebook,
- 46:05I think it's this quick reward system. It's very bad for us.
- 46:09All right. There are a few questions in the chat.
- 46:13The first one is, for the general pediatrician, do you have a preferred sequence
- 46:19or order of medications you'd like to see them use, including over-the-counter
- 46:22medications, vitamins,
- 46:24lifestyle recommendations before they're referred to your clinic? Great. Good question.
- 46:29Usually, I give them two months because this data has shown that it takes two
- 46:34months for daily preventative medications to work.
- 46:36So when I start with vitamin supplementation, like I said, the one that I like to use is Migrelief.
- 46:42And then there's another one, Migrelief, I don't use so much all over the counter.
- 46:45I usually like to give them at least two months of that.
- 46:49But I like to do everything together because I won't say, okay,
- 46:51let's give you a vitamin supplement for two months. Then you start losing weight
- 46:54the next two months. So, you know, doing everything together.
- 46:57And I speak more so also personally as a patient myself, because I think acupuncture
- 47:02and these vitamin supplementation, lifestyle modification, at least should be
- 47:07tried for two months or so.
- 47:09You can do it all together. It wouldn't hurt, you know, and then if it's still
- 47:13not working or if they have any focal neurological sign or if they are in medication
- 47:17overuse, then that's that we just don't want to go there. We just do not want to go there.
- 47:21Review the order of medications you would like to see.
- 47:25Vitamin lifestyle modification. I think I would do this all like I wouldn't
- 47:28wait weeks between them. I would probably do them together. You know what I mean?
- 47:34The next question is, how often is, Dr. Gross, how often is syncope seen in migraine patients?
- 47:40Dr. Gross, we see a lot of patients with migraines and we see a lot of patients with epilepsy also.
- 47:45And, you know, syncope, I won't be able to tell you exactly the percentage,
- 47:50but I can tell you that a lot of migraineurs are prone to syncope vertigo.
- 47:55Now, could that be a part of your aura? Could it be a brainstem aura?
- 47:58Difficult to say. Of course, we have to look at the literature very closely.
- 48:02And there are slides that I have on it.
- 48:04Are you meeting the criteria for migraine with aura? Yes or no?
- 48:07There are slides on it. If they're not, if it's just syncope,
- 48:10I have not seen it very frequently.
- 48:12However, there's a term called dysautonomia or POTS, right?
- 48:16So in those cases, the patients are prone to having headaches and they can have
- 48:20syncope quite frequently.
- 48:22We, again, the workup for syncope is, like you already know,
- 48:25would include like the cardiac workup and, you know, the tilt test, et cetera.
- 48:29But there's no medication I would give for syncope be other than,
- 48:32again, lifestyle modification, adequate hydration, et cetera.
- 48:36Why are we still prescribed to FMAX and amytriptyline if they're not better than placebo?
- 48:40That was one study that showed that, but there are other studies.
- 48:43So the CHAMP study was supposed to be, you know, I think I was, I was still a fellow.
- 48:47I was a headache fellow at that time. No, I had just graduated in 2017. Yeah.
- 48:51Two years out. So I remember it was like the big study that was coming out.
- 48:54Everybody was excited about it, but it's, it's sad.
- 48:57It could be several other factors too, but there are several other studies that
- 49:02have shown amy triptoline to be effective. Topamax, quite effective.
- 49:06We had a poster recently, actually, Dr.
- 49:09Fox and I and my other colleagues at the University of Illinois,
- 49:12and that showed no significant change. We compared amy triptoline to Topamax.
- 49:18But again, having been treating migraines since 20, I think 15,
- 49:23in children, I think Topamax is overall very well tolerated.
- 49:26The other thing is it can cause a lot of weight loss too.
- 49:29And weight loss and headache is directly, it will be great. So if it can cause
- 49:34weight loss in a healthy enough way, that's also effective.
- 49:37But amitriptyline overall can also help with mood and depression and sleep.
- 49:41So if it's also helping with sleep and weight loss, but there are several other
- 49:45studies that have looked at these medications.
- 49:48So unfortunately, yes, the CHAMP study was quite a disappointment,
- 49:51but it really, we brought it up.
- 49:55I talked to Dr. Fox about it too, because it's important because it highlights
- 49:58the importance of placebo and also multidisciplinary, multifactorial approach.
- 50:04Medication overuse headaches, chronic daily headaches, NDPH.
- 50:06NDPH is very hard to manage and success rate is not going to be high unless
- 50:11and until we have a multifactorial approach, which includes everything we talked
- 50:16about, not just one pill,
- 50:17not just Topamax. That's where we fail.
- 50:21We have a question hand-raised from Dr. Herndon. You want to unmute yourself, sir? Yeah.
- 50:27So in the process of discovering new cancer drugs, we have a bunch of plant
- 50:33biologists who've been involved with that kind of discovery work.
- 50:39And it turns out, well, I have a sister-in-law who has horrible migraines,
- 50:45and they seem to be aggravated or related to exposure to mold spores.
- 50:51When the cows get really high they're allergic related and somebody in the community
- 50:56knew about a plant that's called something like horse clover or something like that.
- 51:05And they made a tea out of it and gave it to her and her headaches which might last for days,
- 51:14just disappeared all of a sudden and it's the most dramatic thing i've ever
- 51:18seen in a long time So I went to the plant biologist,
- 51:22and it turns out that we had samples of that, and some people were looking at
- 51:27it, but not for that as a chemotherapy agent.
- 51:32And it had been, in folklore times, had been used for menstrual cramps.
- 51:39So that led to the discussion, well, it's a prostaglandulin.
- 51:43And i mean this is kind of a convoluted story
- 51:47but there are people there are plant biologists in the pharmacy department here
- 51:53in san antonio who have these catalogs of all kinds of things and i don't know
- 51:59you know what these things are but it seems like an area of discovery to me,
- 52:05sounds sounds amazing i am personally i'm a big believer in herbal medicine
- 52:10i've used it on myself Of course, I can. I mean, yeah, but I've used it on myself.
- 52:16I can talk about it for a long time, using turmeric and other stuff.
- 52:20I use it. Can you tell me the name of the plant again? This is very interesting.
- 52:23I think it's called horse clover or something like that. It's a very unusual plant.
- 52:30It has a flower, and the stalk grows through the middle of the flower to the
- 52:35next level, and there's a series of flowers.
- 52:38And, of course, it gained its name because horses like to eat it.
- 52:43Very interesting. I think that's kind of the theory behind Ayurvedic medicine.
- 52:47And that's not something we, you know, but Ayurvedic medicine,
- 52:50it's worked very, very, very well.
- 52:52So I wonder if that's something I look it up for school work.
- 52:57Thank you so much for listening to that fascinating talk. Don't forget to click
- 53:03on the link in this podcast for free credit.
- 53:06Our website is pediatricsnowpodcast.com. My email address is on there.
- 53:13Please email me with questions or episode ideas.
- 53:17Pediatrics Now is also sponsored by CPAN, No Call Too Small.
- 53:22Our sister podcast is Pediatrics Now for Parents, Also, wherever you get your
- 53:28podcasts, it's meant to be one less thing you have to say in the exam room.
- 53:34That's Pediatrics Now for Parents, wherever you get your podcasts,
- 53:38or PediatricsNowForParents.com.
- 53:41I'm Holly Wayment, and I'll see you soon.