Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Vow & Use a Pebble - Towers of Midnight chapters 14 & 15 - EP553

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A Vow & Use a Pebble - Towers of Midnight chapters 14 & 15 - EP553 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. So, yeah,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we are adults. Are we ready to talk about books
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: we read as children?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Well, this book. We were actually adults by the time
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: this book came out, That is true.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were unfortunately very different place than when it
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: first came out.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, very much. So good.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I just got reminded about Ravens. Someone's asking
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: about why does my book start differently and I of
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: the World, and it's like, oh god, Ravens. That's right.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I forgot about Ravens that chapter, And so that we're
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: talking about Agwayne. This just it's so funny to think
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: about that dumb ass chapter. No offense to ever wrote it,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: because I know it wasn't Robert Jordan, that dumbass chapter
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: about Agwayne. But this is a good one. We've got
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: a couple of good chapters here. I think this is
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: These are very satisfying. Yeah, if you look at the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: three books that Sanderson wrote as one book, this is
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: sort of We're halfway through the second book, which is
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: halfway through the trilogy, so we're kind of past most
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: of the Sander slowness, well not quite. At the sandal Lanche.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: There's always a little bit there where he's still warming
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: up and still moving a few pieces around, but you
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: get the occasional victory, you get the occasional conclusion, which
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: we do in these chapters. So really liking that.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the beginning of Annie Sanderson book is rough, and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: we have finally exited the beginning. We're now at like, well,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the middle section before the full sander
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Lanch initiates. There's a section between the beginning and the
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: sander Lanch that we are now entering, and this is, yeah,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: much better. The last several episodes have been a lot
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: of really like dragging ourselves through it, But I enjoyed
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: these chapters. There's a lot of Agwaine being omrelin, yeah,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: being a love sick girl, not a GWayne being in
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: a power struggle a GWayne doing Omorlin's stuff, and she's
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: competent and she's having reunions with people and it's, yeah,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed it.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: And I need healing, right.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, and I need healing madness, which like she's already
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: done one epic healing scene that we had a good
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: time with, right, we have like we've already had two healings.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Truly right, she healed Stilling and then she helped Rand
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: cleanse the taint.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, heal the world.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: And now for a trifecta, she's gonna heal madness, which
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: we've been looking forward to for a while. And yeah,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: it's a really good scene. It's really well written.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: She's like, you know what, I know, I cleansed the taint,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: but I didn't cleanse it hard enough. So I'm gonna
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: wash every little bit of it out of people.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Cann go wash everyone's personal.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Tak Yeah, the meaning of that word has changed over
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the years.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, I under what Robert Jordan thought of that transition
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: as it was happening, just like, wait it means what now?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Wait?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Wait wait, Like I'm sure someone came up to him
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: and was like, sir, why did you pick these words?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: He's like, I didn't pick it when it meant that,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: right would?
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: I would be curious to trace the origin of the
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: word taint to mean the piece of skin down there,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: as opposed to like something is tainted.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: What is the chain of custody on that?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sure the Internet could tell me, but I'm not
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: googling that.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, at least put on safe search, not safe
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: search incognito man, probably both incognito at the same time.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: So I was like, why what do you do? What's
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: the both?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: So I can find one result, the only result that
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: exists at the intersection of those two things.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, the taint is the intersects.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is tailspin. We have we have deranged singing
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: and chat.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Oh no, oh, come on, if we can't giggle at
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: the taint thing every once in a while, do we
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: really have fun with this?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I'm currently wearing my my Harbor Master can find North
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Harbor at least fifty percent of the time. Sure, from
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: what I was boor it yesterday, and Brandon's like, where
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: did you get that shirt from? Like, oh, you know,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: here's a seven layer deep joke. More for like the
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: forty five people that have followed all of that for
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: this time, it was for a good cause, it's for charity, it's.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I haven't oh, but the number of YouTube videos I've
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: seen pop up where people like have you seen this
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: island from Wheel of Time? You know? And then yeah, anyway.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Do we want to get into this book.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Phrasing? Uh, yeah, no, all right, we are here to
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: do chapter fourteen a vow and we've got the dream
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Terangreoll because this is in Toeleerandrial and the dream terrangreioll
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: come up quite a bit.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Actually, oh yeah, more than just being in the dream world.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: This is actually a topic of conversation.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I guess that's my reading, isn't it.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: It sure is.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Agwain walked up the side of a gentle slope, the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: grass green at her feet, the air cool and pleasant.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Lazy butterflies floated from blossom to blossom, not curious children
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: peeking into cupboards. Agwaine made her shoes vanish so she
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: could feel the blades beneath her feet. She took a
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: deep breath, smiling, then looked up at the boiling black clouds, angry, violent, silent,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: despite flashes of amethysts, lightning, terrible storm above, quiet placid
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: that beneath a dichotomy of the world of dreams. Oddly,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: till I run Riod felt more unnatural to her now
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: than it had during her first few visits. Using variants
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: tear angriol, she'd treated this place like a playground, changing
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: her clothes on a whim, assuming that she was safe.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: She hadn't understood till I run Riod was about as
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: safe as a bear trap painted a pretty color. If
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the Wise Ones hadn't straightened her out, she might not
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: have lived to become Omerelin. And I'll cut it there
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: because there's not really a good cut off point for that.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: It's just vibes and thinking, and that's really what's happening,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: is till I run Riod is dangerous, Agwayne is returning
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: to her roots. Variance to ron Greal is relevant. And
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: the Wise Ones, the Wise Ones and their education matter.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Like that's really the core of what this chapter is about.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I do like the storm above archonology. It kind of again,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I always think of tell Runnernod as the sort of
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the shell of the Dark One's prison, and so it
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: makes sense that you sort of have this descending cloud
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: as that prison erodes, as it begins to affect more
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: and more, you know, the Dark Ones basically infecting more
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: and more of that prison.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, it totally makes sense to me with that headcanon. Yeah,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: like he's scratching at the sky, he's pushing on the bubble,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: he's creating more friction, and yeah, you got electrical discharge
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and the metaphysical firmament.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: And some of that is the bubbles of evil that
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: he's able to push through, and he's pushing through more
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: and more and more of those, and those are little
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: pieces of the dream world that then alter what's going
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: on in the physical realm. So yeah, very not safe, right,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Like think about that. What if it turns out this
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: whole world, alternate world they've been playing in is actually
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: just like the shell of the Dark Ones prison and
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yeah, you've been playing dancing like five
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: feet away from the Dark One on his glass little prison,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: right with your little hoofs.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, totally, he's been watching you the whole time.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: He was right there.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And that's why I always I always liked the theory
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: that like maybe Eshameel for the most part, was trapped
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: when he was trapped and he got closer to the edge,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: he was trapped in the world of dreams when the
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: borro was sealed, and so he could actually reach out
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: because he was a dream walker and that's one of
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: the ways he was able to affect. Every forty years
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: or so, he got closer and he wasn't really I know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: he was there in person as an advisor for Ardur
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: hawk Wing, but I kind of think like maybe he wasn't.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of question about like when he was effective,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So maybe he was only out in person for a
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: few years. But he's able to like being people's dreams
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: for like a bit of time around that period of
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: time before he physically got out, as he was getting
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: closer and closer to the surface.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Right, and then he's like, no, I'm going to show
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: up like next week, I'll actually be in the flesh.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Oh look here I am. Now you know everything I
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: say is real? Yeah, I like that. I like adding
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: weird dream powers to make more Bendy Wendy Eye of
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the worlds and stuff. And you need to answer Mom
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Jeans's question, because that's a good question. Does that mean
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that the dream world was created at the moment he
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: was imprisoned?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Well, of course, it was all created at the same time.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: The Wheel of the world, the prison the Dark One
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: was created with the world Old with Teleron Riod at
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: once as a prison for the Dark One.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: That makes sense to me. The three constants, right, they
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: all have to come into existence at the same time
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: in order to be evenly balanced. The Dark One, the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Creator and Teleroon Reodd.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: In the moment of creation, there was the dark One,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: there was the Creator, and there was the Dark One's prison.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: First there was none and then there was three.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, because the cycle is there's a the dark
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: One's prison exists, a hole is drilled in it, that
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: hole is patched, the patch breaks down, it's remade as
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: a new prison, so that when the wheel comes around again,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: it is made whole. Right, And so it must have
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: been made whole when I mean and again, because this
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: is the wheel that always rolls, and that doesn't have
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: been beginning and ending, right. The dark One's always been
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: in prison.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Right, and the dark One. The world has never existed
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: without the dark One. As we see in Rand's vision
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: of like how the world would look Sand's dark One,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, that's not a world that exists, right,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't. The Dark One is entropy and chaos,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: and this is necessary for life to form.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: The choice has to be there, right, The choice to
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: end everything and end in darkness is a part of
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: the human experience and without it you're not human.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't actually purify the darkness completely away. If
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do light, you're gonna have shadow. It's just
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: kind of the thing, and yeah, shadows exist for exactly
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: as long as the light does.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So there's a moment here where she says she would
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: have to cover an equal distance before this was done
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: in a far shorter time, sort of talking about her
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: growth and everything, and like, well, hats because Sanderson started
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: over again on some characters.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Well, but also just like we've spent you know, two
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: years of in book time over all these books, and
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: now we have to conclude the actual last battle in
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: like the next two months or something. Right, There's there's
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: in and out world layers to.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: That totally, so I guess that is the whole. Like
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: all this has been preparing for the test, but test
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: is here, and sometimes you learn as much on the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: test as you do leading up to it.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Genuinely.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like this line. Both problems and possible
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: solutions seemed uncountable. They overwhelmed her drowning and all the
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: things she should be doing, only because I'm feeling that
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: way sometimes myself. That's just oh my god, I should
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: be cleaning the house and grocery shopping, and oh I
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: need to be making money. Oh and I should be socializing.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Oh I need to rest and take care of myself.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Oh you know, like it's like, oh yeah, she's doing that,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: except you know, with life and the Last Battle and
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: the White Tower and everything, right, this idea that like, oh,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: she just had to unite the White Tower and then
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: things would be okay, And now she's past.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: That point, right, And it's like that's a it's a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: necessary side effect of tunnel vision, right, you have to
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: tunnel vision onto something and say, Okay, I'm going to
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: get through this because that is what I'm working for.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Is that was what I was saying before in earlier books,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: right her thing where she says I'm going to scrub
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: the patch of floor in front of me, and I'm like, yeah,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that's great life advice. But yeah, this is that really
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: awkward moment after once you get to the goal, you
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: can exit the tunnel. Now what right? This is this
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: is a huge existential crisis for like an Olympic gold medalist,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: but for someone like a gain, it's just now what's
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the next step? And it's options paralysis. You know, looking
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: at my life, it's like okay, yeah, I've I've got
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: the house, I've got the degree. Everything's cool. Now what
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: am I doing with my life? What is the thing
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: that I'm doing. What's my capital w.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Work or in this case, what am I doing with
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the White Tower? Right, Like, this is supposed to be
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the most potent force to oppose the dark One. Here's
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the last battle. What do I do? Well, She's still
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: kind of heavily focused on cleaning up the White Tower, right,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: She's still focused inward. She still knows there's a forsaken
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: among the ranks, and she's almost entirely focused on taking
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: care of that problem.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Right, And I mean, and this is the trap that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: you know, the electoral brain worm takes us into. Right,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: we just have to get this one person elected in
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: this one election, and then everything will be fine. And
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: then like no, you have to keep the pedal to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the medal, and then you have to also be willing
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to go back into that hyper focused tunnel in just
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: two years or four years, and like this is this
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: is the cycle that is It's a real human problem.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Humans find themselves in this codundrum at scale or in
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: their personal lives just over and over against this is
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a normal thing. But yeah, when you have an institution
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: as powerful as the White Tower to work with, you
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: expect to have a little more agency I mean rand
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: rails against this a lot, right, Like I'm supposed to
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: be the center of the world, but like I can't
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: make any choices for myself. It's the soldiers with no
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: power that have all the agency.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: It's sometimes too much power in agency is not a
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: good thing.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like presidents have always railed against the
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: golden chains of the office, right, this idea that like
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I have to fall the law. I can't just do
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: whatever I want. There's procedures in place, and I have
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: to you know, there's very few points where someone that
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: gets to make a choice if they're following standard protocol
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: and the low morals.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, standard moras that have been set by generations of
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: presidents before them, literal constitutional laws that have been decided
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: on by generations of people and power, and if there.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Was any enforcement of those said laws.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but no, I mean it is a common
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I mean that's like the entire like thrust of the
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: crown on netflix, right, It's like, oh, look at these
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: poor royals and this life that they can't make any choices,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and like that's the entire stick, is that it's a
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: gilded cage. Right. This is a common theme is that
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: leaders have less choice, but a GWayne at least chose
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: this role. And now she's simply overwhelmed by options. It's
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: not like she was forced into it by virtue of
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: birth or something.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: No, I mean there was a moment though, where they
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: were they summoned her, and her being summoned as the
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: AMBULANCEE right, wasn't much of a choice on her part.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: It was set up by Suan.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: No, but she's chosen repeatedly by now.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, But that initial choice was like
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: it was like definitely a sinker swim moment, because like
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: if she didn't swim in that moment, I don't think
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: she would have survived it. So that's why I really
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: talk about, like how much of a choice was it
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: for her to become the ambuline that she became, because otherwise,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: you know, not very many people survived becoming a former
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Amberlin just asked, sou on right, like right, right didn't
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: go that well for her?
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now she thinks about how she's got two meetings tonight,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: which is going to take us two chapters. That's why
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: this is one episode, and she says her biggest difficulty
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: was going to be the perceptions of the people she
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: met with. Neither group would see her as what she
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: had become. That's what makes the reunion aspect of these
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: chapters so good, as we have to deal with the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: characters coming to terms with seeing agwayenasus she's become. It's
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: it's quite satisfying a Gwayna is set up for disappointment
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and she is pleasantly surprised.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And I need the willingness to change I think is
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: the is a big part of it as well. Right,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Ninive has humbled herself finally, right, that almost back to
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: the willing to accept the One power from when she
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: was drowning. Right, that was a real change of character
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: moment in her or she didn't have to go angry anymore,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: and she was willing to accept that there are things
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: she cannot control, including the One Power, right and including
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: her friends. So she's really grown ever since then. We
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: just one of the reasons why I really did miss
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: her on screen is we kind of saw her with Rand,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: but like really only from Rand's POV and we didn't
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: get this sort of like Jordan wrote her as accepting
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: that she couldn't change things, and then she went and
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: helped herand and was just there to help Rand, right, Like,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: I feel like we didn't really get that from her
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: POV anymore. It was just like, Okay, she's taken care
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: of she can go be Rand's you know, second channeler.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: She'll hold the calendar at the last battle. But I
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: do like that we get a little more character development
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: from her here.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it's really fun, but first we do
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the Wise Ones. We go to the Stone of Tier,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: the Heart of the Stone, where we always meet, and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: we meet with Bear and Amis.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Which I get why they meet there when there's always
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: that's where people are always watching. I wonder if the
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: people watching were always like the Ayel the Wise Ones
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the whole time.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: That's why they don't mind meeting there. We let's fine
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: if I'm doing it right exactly. Yeah, I never understood
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: why they continued to meet in the stone long after
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Rand was out of the stone. It's like that that
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: was a moment for the Ael, the whole Stone of
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Tyr Heart of the Stone, like that was a thing,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: but like it's over.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Now, but more a moment for Rand right than for
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: the Aeel.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Well, but them conquering the stone was an important part
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: of why that moment was so big for rand right,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like the stone of Tears shall never fall into the
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: people of the Dragon Come. It's kind of an important
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: moment for the ideel. But it seems like, yeah, they
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: would just maybe go back to like the Waste for
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: their meetings after dis encamping from Yeah, cold Rocks Hole, Drudian,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you know any of those places? Yeah, we can't go
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: to until I run around. It's it's warded in weird ways.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Is that not true anymore?
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: No, it's not not true anymore that he broke out warning.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: But I would have expected, Yeah, like a favorite spot
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: in Cold Rocks Hold, like that would have been where
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I would assume they would want to go. But no,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Stone them Tear.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I'm pretty sure the fight with Asmodi and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: destroyed all protections that Ruddy and had on it.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know it did all the ones in the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: physical world. But it would that would make sense that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: it also applies to the dream world. That would that
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: would make sense, Yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Because it's just it's back in the real world. It's
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: back it was. It doesn't have that that separation anymore,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: that magical warding.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so she gets there. There's two wise ones, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: she updates them on the tower and they go, ah,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: so that that's you're not coming back to us. I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: guess that's why you're wearing Wetlander clothes. Here have the
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: stole of the Amorlin. So Leah will be pissed, but congratulations.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: They honor her. They kind of say, ah, it's a
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: shame you're finding SSS there. We'd hope you'd come back
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: to us where we could have you. You know. It's
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: it's very it's good ribbing. It's like, hey, no, we
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: want you to like I feel like if someone gets
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: a job at another company who's like a really good worker,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: you would say stuff like this to them, like I'm
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: glad you're doing well. I'm glad you're CEO of that company,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: but we miss you over here.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that, right, A little bit more cutting than that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Me and Well are harsh, but yeah, Wannace to be like, hey,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: you can't insult my people too much. But also I
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: get it, I get it. They have good for Poort
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: and she's, you know, still surprised at how much she
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: respects them and needs their approval in order to fish.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: She's like, I'm a big, strong, confident nomerlin, I don't
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: need no I eel mom to tell me that I've
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: did a good job. But then when her ing moms
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: tell her that she did a good job, she feels
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: all warm and fuzzy inside.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've grown much since we last met. That sent
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: a thrill through a gwayn.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Because yeah, she did. She's she used their lessons to
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: grow in ways that they would recognize. And yeah, of
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: course they recognize it.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: They talk about Rand a little bit. He's embraced death.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: He has achieved the strength of the wind, not the
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: strength of the stones.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I like that turn of phrase, the strength of the wind,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: because like exhibit deserts sand dunes, right, Like who's stronger now, bitch?
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Also the opening of every book, right, a wind rows.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Well and also that yes, yeah.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: And then you know, if you've read storm lt Archive, right,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Sanderson has the thing with wind.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine where he got it from.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I always wonder how much that came from the
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: opening of these books that he I.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Would assume it's entirely from the opening of these books.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: He credits Robert Jordan is inspiring him with wanting to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: be an author.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: So like the Wind, and especially in his last book
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: of Storm Archive, the wind really becomes this thing that
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: is sentient separate from well, it's one of his mysteries
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: he hasn't revealed yet, but the wind really becomes this
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: thing that is This gets a voice in his latest
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: book Spoilers, by the way.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And then they also say this cool thing about a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: GWayne that she gave them good material to work with,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that no amount of untangling will make a shitty piece
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: of string good, but if it's a good piece of cordage,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: then it's worth the work to untangle it. And I
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: thought that was a cool way of describing Agwayne's arc
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: with them.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I also love the day get the White Tower being like, oh, yeah,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the White Tower got you all knotted up and we
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: straightened you out. Like they fucked it up real bad.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: It's like when you get somebody else's dog and you're like, oh,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: this dog is the worst training. I'll fix that right totally.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Not to compare agwayn to a dog.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: No, but like to compare the ideal wise ones to
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: dog owners. Yeah, it seems appropriate.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: And then I think this is a really important line
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: where she says, I wish there were a way to
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: train more sisters in the ways of the Wise Ones,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: and that sets up what I would call the exchange
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: student program that get set up between the c Folk,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: the Wise Ones, and the White Tower.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeap, the three way magical student exchange program that Agwain
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: has a whole amazing vision for that she totally was
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: going to make happen that I don't think Katswyne will
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: continue with.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna pretend it is going to happen.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: That's fine. I'm fine with that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Because she's making these bargains already, that's true.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: She's getting a lot of other people on board.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: So and then the can is the retirement community, right.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So truly she's bringing in a fourth She's got a
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: fourth bonus community.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Right. Is there any group of channelers that we know
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: about that she's not bringing in.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Well, the Sharons and the shan Chan. Yeah, that's a
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: good point of Fuji kat Swayin does have a lot
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: of respect for Sorelia and by extension, Wise Ones, so well, yeah, okay,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that's maybe not the most unrealistic thing.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: And I see her seeing the advantages of that, especially
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: with the massive numbers of novices they have. She's like
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: ship them off I know, right, we can't handle them off,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: but that sort of builds up, right, That's that's one
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: of those threads that sort of follows through for the
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: next couple of encounters with the Gwayn and the wise ones. Yeah,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the other negotiations that build up to that student exchange program.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm gonna because I think that's like
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: they can't come up with a better name for like.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody would be any amount confused if that's what
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you called it. Everyone would know what you meant. Like
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: if you say brands and wives, no one is confused
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: about who you mean, even though it wasn't technically a marriage,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: like we all know. So, yeah, the Magical Student Exchange
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Program is definitely that Wetlands to dry Lands to White
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Tower Lands.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: And there's like two pages of them talking about, you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: we're going to send young novices. It does make sense
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: to send full ice ad eye because then they're not
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: very multiple and like how to break that, Like, Oh,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: tell them it's for cultural understanding, not so they can learn,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: not so we can break them or learn from us.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: And Gwen's like, yeah, I know, it's kind of the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: bold point. So she's basically coaching her how to say it.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, that's going to be a two way exchange.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be one way because the cultural
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: superiority of the idea is a little overblown. You're not
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: that much better than us.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and there's a lot of weaves the IELL can
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: learn from the Isidi. They are not the best channelers, right,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: they've been learning, they've been exposed to them. But there's
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: there's a lot less complex weaving in the wise ones.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the different schools of stuff. But it'll be a
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: two way exchange. There won't be one superior group gracing
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the other with the gift of their knowledge and it's
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: so beneficent. No, it's going to be a two way
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: exchange where both parties are strengthened.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Boujie, I think it's hard to remember that Codswain
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: isn't traditional because she's so old and has this like
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: old school way about her. But at the same time,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: she doesn't do things the way I said I traditionally
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: do them right. She's willing to break the rules and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: make because she just does things differently right.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: That's true. But yeah, once they're done with that, they
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: move on to rand and this well.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: GWayne breaks the news that they're going to break the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: seals in the dark one.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Seals discussion, which they she gets a bunch
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of reactions. She didn't expect it to this.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: She thinks they are going to resist him on that
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: because she thinks they're kind of in his pocket, right,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: And when they're just like, oh, that is concerning, Yeah,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: we really need to talk to him about that, he's
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: he's kind of dumb. She's like, oh, I didn't expect that.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Whereas when she tells Elayne and I neive right, Elaine's
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: kind of like, maybe he needs to do that, and
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I needs like yeah, and you know, like they support
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: him a little more and are a little more skeptical.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: They don't immediately assume it's the bad thing. And she
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: thought she'd have support from them because they're her friends.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she immediately will get their one we
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: get there, But then she immediately is like, well, clearly
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: they're spending too much time with rand if they don't
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: agree with me immediately. And I'm just like, your high
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: horse is way too high. Get down now. But whatever,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: we'll get there. One we get there. I guess that
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: is basically where we're going, because yeah, she ends the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: meeting with the wise Ones and then heads off to
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the hall of the Tower to wait for Elayne and Ninive.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And Ninive's not there immediately how dare Yeah, though not
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: really sure why if we ever get an explanation or
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: if she's just.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I think it's just she's on time and a Grain
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: was early, and a Grain's the kind of person who
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: thinks that if you're on time, you're.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Late, and the whole like, we don't even get to
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: mention the fact that time could be running differently in
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: til he run Riod like we usually do, Like none
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: of that was like, oh we went just like how
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: how can you expect someone to be on time and
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: tell run reod? It doesn't make any.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Sense, especially in a world where clocks are not consistent.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: There's like comments in earlier books about like two clocks
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: will not be telling time exactly the same even if
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you're in the same room, like they're not, Like it's
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: just clock technology is not that good. So yeah, it's
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: very silly of a Grain to be mad that Ninive
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't there waiting for her already, Like she's got CEO
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: brain girlboss brain mm hmm.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: And then I really wanted to get into this window.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, let's do the window.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, So let's read this. They're set into the glass.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Below the flame of Tarvaalin was a large segment in
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: the shape of the dragon's fang that wasn't part of
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: the original window. Agwayne stepped forward, inspecting the glass. There's
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: a third constant beside the Creator and the Dark One,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Varren's meticulous voice said, a memory from another time. There
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: is a world that lies within each of these others,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: inside all of them at the same time, or perhaps
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: surrounding them. Writers in the Age of Legends called it
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Teleran riad. And so I really so that segment alone, right,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: the fact that there is a world that lies within
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: each of these others, right, there's a center world, just
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: like the Dark One's prison is the singular prison of
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: the Dark One that lies at the center of the pattern. Like,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it just it lines up so well
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: with the description of what I think the Dark One's
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: prison would be. Yeah, and we know the Dark One
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: has to have always been in prison, which means Teleronriod
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: was a constant from the beginning.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: That's yeah.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Anyway, but that's a quote that I want to talk about.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: But before that, this window that exists, that's not the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: window that they built in the physical world. Right, Where
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: is it coming from? Why is it in here? What
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: is it a reference to?
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: So first of all, help me imagine it. This isn't
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: just the ancient symbol of ice to die, right, No,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: it's not the thing in set with the flame. No,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: it's still separated somehow. I'm bad at visualizing things, so
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just like trying to, like, okay, okay, it's like
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: an accent underneath the.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Main I'm trying to. Yeah, So think of if the
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: flame of Tarvollin kind of looks like a six, right, yeah,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: and the fang kind of looks like a nine. Picture
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: a six sitting on top of a nine. Okay, like
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: one writer over the other one, yeah, right, as opposed
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: to a six and a nine nestled together like in
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: a six the number sixty nine right right?
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly because I kept thinking, like, is he
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: he's not describing the original Isidie symbol? But that's almost yeah, Okay,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So they're separated vertically.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: That's that was my Because they're setting the glass below
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the flame of tarvolin. Okay, Okay, it was a large
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: in the shape of the dragons fang, and I imagine
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: that that shape is actually larger as well. Then like
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: it's a small plan of Tarballan and there's a large
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: dragons fang underneath it.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part of why I was having a hard
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: to imagine, is like I thought they must be the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: same size, But then that feels really visually unbalanced. So okay, anyhow,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the visuals are less important than the symbology.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Right, and the fact that this was not built in
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: our reality, right, And so I guess you we have
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: all these instances of other realities are sort of clashing together, right,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: We've seen that where rooms are moving, hallways are disappearing,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Like there really does appear to be some flexibility to
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: the pattern right now.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, this feels more like I mean, first
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: of all, was in the world of dreams, so it
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: gets to be a lot looser right with what it's doing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: But it feels to me like it's It has always
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: read to me like a sign of the beginning of
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the reconciliation between Tamerlin and Amberlin and Agwaine's meeting maybe
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: could have almost gone better, Like maybe there was a
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: way that like they came out of that meeting hand
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: in hand, ready to work together, but instead they left
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: with Rand kind of manipulating her so that way their
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: next meeting would go. Well. It wasn't bad, right, she
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: didn't imprison him or anything, but like it is still
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the healing between the male and female habs,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: because now the taint's been cleansed and now you know,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Rand has had a good interaction with the Amerlind and
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: like they're coming together healing that break. That's always been
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: my like emotional vibe from it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I can think of a world where when
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the Tower was attacked, the Black Tower came to help
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: fight off the shan Chan. Oh, and that led to
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: this reconciliation. And that's why the window was built with
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: the fang built into it, because that was a memorial
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: of the fight and the fact that the Black Tower
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: came to Black Tower. Possibly also Rand came to their
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: aid in that fight. Oh.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about trying to construct an alternate timeline.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I thought it was all allegory, but like, in what
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: world would that window design make sense? I hadn't even
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: thought of pulling that thread. I like that though, because
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: we do have the Towers sending embassies to be like, hey,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: what if we teamed up and like, yeah, what if
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the timeline of that was different and they were closer
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: when the shawn Chan attacked.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: What if Andral had already you know, thrown out the
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: bad guys in the Black Tower.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Right right? What if Logain was there on a diplomatic
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: mission to hammer out the last of their treaties and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: then oh, I guess we're friends now.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Right right, That's that's a good one. Yeah, oh, I.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: I like that thread to pull on. There's a lot
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of fun ways to imagine that could have gone, and
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that that battle would have been way harsher on the
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: shawn Chan. They wouldn't win, they would not have walked
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: away from that going oh, that was a good decision
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: on rocket left in the.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Entire army, the one with Alia of course.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Obviously that one would make it through. But yeah, huh,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that's cool, especially given that we do have the Black
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Tower doing a cool act of heroism during the last battle,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Like the idea of them coming in to save a
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: group that's on the brink of destruction does exist. In
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the real timeline, albeit in the future.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: So I like it and the idea that, yeah, that's
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: sort of the the expungement of the Dark Friends then
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: allows them to come in and save the tower so
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: that they can do their own expungement of the Dark Friends.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Right, and it wouldn't even have to be like, you know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: them saving the damsels in distress. It's just sometimes the
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: magic halves have to team up against the anti magic douchebags.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Right right, right right, and really hammering the point that
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: making circles can beat not circles right by making a
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: circle with men, which then makes it infinitely, not infinitely,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: but exponentially more powerful, all right, So ninive, So they're
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: they're catching up a little bit, and then Agwen goes, yeah,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: so I got a question for you as as my advisor.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm an Amberlin, and I'm really struggling with
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: this thing that like everybody thinks I'm too young and
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: is treating me like I'm not actually the Amberlin and
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I'm just a child and that I don't deserve it.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: What do you do with a woman who isn't coming
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: to your summons? And then like just just absolutely like
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: nails Ninive on it, and it's just like.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Coats a knife in salt and just twists it.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just twist it. Because Niniva is like, well, you gotta,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: you know, be strict and don't let her ever forget
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: that you're the Amberlin and you know, hold the line
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: and do this and do this. And she's like, so
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: should I be doing that with you? And n He's like,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: ah uh fuck, I walked into that one.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: It's kind of amazing. Yeah, Like, I don't like to
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: see Ninive being humbled in the face of authority, but
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: it was really clever and honestly, one of the things
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: we love about Ninive is that she's a hypocrite. That's
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: one of the things we find funny about her. So
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to have Agwayne very legitimately call out her hypocrisy is like, well,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you did deserve that.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: And that's where I'm like, I'm Brandon got Ninive in
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: this way, right, He's really able to nail this character,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: who's able, who can walk into this trap, head held
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: up high, not realizing that she's describing her exact behavior
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: until it's pointed out to her. Right, that's the kind
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: of person that Ninive is and that's also the kind
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: of person that Matt is, and that's where he misses
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Matt for me is he gets it with Ninive and
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: he misses it with Matt.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and as much as I say, you know, Ninia's
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: a hypocritmy love that about her. Also, she is displaying
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: here the thing that I find far too lacking in
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: the real world, which is internal consistency. When she is
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: shown through her through logic the error of her ways
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: and realizes she's been caught, she changes her behavior. Instead
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: of doubling down and being an asshole because she can't
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: ever be wrong, she goes, wow, I was wrong and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: moves forward with growth as a person. And that's all
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I want from anyone is just just to have the
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: capacity to do that.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: You have me kneeling on the ground and kissing your
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: ring and yeah, another ambulan, not happily, but you'd have
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: done it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's the station, it's not me, which you
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: know is a very important distinction. And then she's also
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: you know, looking at it, and you's like, you're one of
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the few people who can see me as something other
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: than the station. Please stay in my inner circle. I
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: need people who don't only see the station, but you
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: have to be able to see the station.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Sometimes in public.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to be able to, like Matt, completely
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: be okay with bowing to me when there's an audience
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: with people who don't want to bow to me, Like,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you need to not have that be a personal ego issue, please.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And then sort of you can start by calling me mother.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, mother, but then it's like, but it's to motivate,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: and I need better than a competition.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: It's like, can you do it? Can you do better
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: than the women who treated you poorly when you became wisdom?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Is that's who she's competing with, is those women?
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Can you do better than day's conger at accepting my authority?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Fine, exactly, I love her. And then not Elaine arrives,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: and then Elaine arrives. But first, not Elaine.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Arrives, Not Elaine. Suddenly a tinkling bell rang in Agwain's mind.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: She'd almost forgotten he awards. I think Elaine has arrived. Nope,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: that's not Elaine. That's a dark friend Talva.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming, I'm assuming this is the one that dies
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: rather than alvi arn It. Yeah, but one of those too,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's Talfa, yeah, or.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Then arriving together, right, sure, yeah, but once the word's tripped,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: it's not going to trigger again. So that's why she
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: doesn't hear. When Elaine actually arrives, she has to reset
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: the ward. You only get one morning.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, they go over there, Elaine's not there,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and then suddenly Elaine is there in a white gown
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: covered in diamonds. Someone has achieved her throne. You can
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: tell because she's.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Wearing all white, married to the crown.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, so she's in the dream, so you know.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Also probably maybe a little bit of Rand, like that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: glowiness from Rand in the way he's like, Oh.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: She's feeling very angelic because she's in her second trimester
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: and Rant has had veins of gold. That makes sense.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I think she's in her second trimester at this point.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: God, I fuck if I know timing. It's weird. She
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: might even be in her like starting her.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Third I don't think.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: So, Oh okay, hold on, Oh no.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Doctor Pants's thing. I don't know, but Boujie feels more
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: like fifth trimester at this point. You're not wrong.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: There's a wheel of time. FAQ. How far along is
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Elane's pregnancy. Elaine's babies were conceived in February seventeenth. In
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: A Winter's Heart, Chapter twelve. Elaine's due date is about
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: November tenth, but twins are often born earlier. She had
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: her first mark medical examination March eighth in Crossroads of Twilight,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: when she was about nine or ten weeks pregnant, right
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: seven to eight since conception.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I guess yeah. They were all on her ass about
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: it early because they knew that she got pregnant because
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: of men's visions. There was no question of if she
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: was pregnant or not.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: At the beginning of June one thousand, only will be
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: seventeen real works pregnant four months.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I have no idea what month we're at in this chapter, right.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, I know there is this calendar.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I can never actually find it when I'm looking for it.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I keep meaning the book market, and I never do.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: We're in spring, right, We've come past Winter's Heart, Spring happened,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: and they're conceived in February.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, we're in spring at those point. I have
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: no idea what month we're in, but we've we've had
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: discussions about roads being muddy, because it's spring.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, so.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that puts her at being solidly in the second
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Tive has to double take to know that she's pregnant, right, Okay.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: She looks at Elaine and then looks at her again
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: and goes, wait a second, you're a price, which is
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: only she's showing, but she's not showing hugely.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Right, Okay, Yeah, and that does make sense that spring
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: is you're talking April May, May maybe, and so then.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because April is equos, so.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just you're right, You're right. She's very still,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: very early on in the pregnancy.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: But second trimester is when the glow gets really glowy.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: So with veins of gold winning the throne. Second trimester, Yeah,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: she's floating on cloud and I no wonder she's dressed
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: all in white with freaking diamonds dripping off of her intel.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I run reodd and Elaine is very very happy when
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: she shows up because you know, this is the first
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: time she's seen Agwayne since the healing of the tower,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and you know, so it's it's a whole bunch of
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: you fix the tower, you know, as one does.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the next little bit is kind of I'm
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: having a little troubles framing how I want to talk
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: about it, because it's at all over the place, lot
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: of catching up talking about Rand, talking about you know,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: she suspects that Elaine has bonded Rand. It's funny she
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: didn't tell her straight out.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: She's not telling anyone though.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: No, But then she says he's awakened. He's warm now, right, Like, okay,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: you're not hiding a girl, right, That was.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: A really unsubtle comment if you wanted to keep that
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: a secret, Like you're claiming that you have psychic connections
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to him that aren't magical. What are you? What are
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: you doing?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Then they talk about the seals and they're crumbling and
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: she says he's going to break the seals, very alarming
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and night and he's like, maybe you're right, and Elaine's
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: looking troubled and Gwaen's like, why aren't you freaking out
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: about this?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Which it totally makes sense to me that Elaine, as
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: a tinkerer and an engineer, is like, well, yeah, I
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: mean it makes sense to clear away the rubble to
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: begin new. I mean that makes sense just practically because
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Elaine's a tinkerer, she's an engineer. Why would she Why
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: would she not want to get rid of the stupid
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: old seals and the night I mean, yeah, maybe it's
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: a bit of who she's hanging out with Rand, so
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: she's affected by his tavere in nature or more. It's
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: just that the idea of trying to hold crumbling Swiss
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: cheese together is it's a fool's errand you should maybe
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: let the savior of the world dictate what we do
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: to bring about the salvation of the world.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: And I need one hundred percent on point. The Dark
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: One will be free to win the file and final
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: seal crumbles best if it happens when Rand is there
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: to battle him, which is exactly that's what When the
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: light appears, right, that's when Rand is ready to face
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: the Dark One, and that's when the seals are broken.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: That's exactly the reasoning that he's using.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually very important that the timing be done correctly.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: That's why you need a watcher of the seals. It's
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: not just to watch him for three thousand years. It's
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: to watch the clock for the moment to break them.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Because the seals are imperfect, they always have been. You
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: have to remake the dark ones prison.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the dark One's prison is not meant to be
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: perpetually patched. The patch has to dissolve and go away
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: because cyclical time.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: And the patches made from Sidine, the male half of
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: the source, right, because.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: They were the only ones that did the thing the ceiling. Yeah.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we see rand has access to
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: something else right there. We see later the pure light
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: that surrounds the taint. I think he has access to
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: the source, not just to the true power or the one.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Power creator power.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about that when we get there. Yeah, the
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: power of reality, right, like the thing that lets him
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: weave reality. There's been a few times where he's woven power,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: specifically in the books where they don't recommend, they don't
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: say which form. Part of that might be his own ignorance,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: but like there's a moment, there's a couple of moments
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: where he's reached out and grabbed power.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And yeah, Threaded through that conversation is
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: another conversation about bringing a Lan and nineve back to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: the tower to be raised. As I said, I properly
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: these things are all kind of mashed together. But you know,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: topically speaking, there's two different conversations happening.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: And bringing back a Lane. Lane's like, I can't. I'm pregnant,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Like you can't. I can't make me sure of the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: oaths right if we don't know, Like am I binding
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: my children to that?
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Like that's not okay, right, Like can they even survive
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: being bound? Like yeah, that's very sketchy. And she can't
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: channel consistently, so it's completely off the table for her
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: to take the test until after she's recovered from giving
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: birth giving birth.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's just like, I'm not I can't do
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: that anytime soon, but I will do it, but not
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: until what you know, six more months after.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: The last battle. Like she literally is not going to
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: be able to get raised until after the last battle.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: And then Ninieve says, yeah, fuck it, I can do
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: it because she's been studying the hundred Weaves with Diagion, right,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Like you remember that on the Cat's pause situation like
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: just get out of my hair has turned into Ninive
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: is just ready to do the hundred weaves of the
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: test more or less at the drop of a hat.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: That's back when they were hanging out in Near domon
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the Gathering Storm chapter seven. If you wanna reference.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: That, and that really helps Agwyn out right. Having at
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: least one of her raised by decree Isidaie come back
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: and take the test properly does help with her legitimacy.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Even though, as you know we will see when we
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: get there, it is one of the hardest tests that
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: has ever been administered to a perspective, Isidie in the
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: history of the Tower. It's very vindictive and mean and terrible.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: Doesn't seem necessary for Agwayne's political career, but nonetheless, the
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: fact that Niniva is willing to do so is helpful
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: to her political career. Sure, that's how Agwayne's see, is it?
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I trust her?
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: No? I get it. Like the only reason they didn't
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: go through the test is because the Tower was divided, right,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: So it's time to go through the test, right, Like,
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: that's just unfortunately part of it. Now I should do
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I think she should change the policy around the oaths.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Am I happy that they keep the three Oaths? No,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I'm glad they sort of temper it a little bit
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: with the kin, But I still think the three Oaths
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: are just not necessary for the White Tower didn't prevent
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: the Black Ajaw. They need to be up. They need
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: to be updated or changed or something needs to be
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: done with the oaths something.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: And then there's the thing where Agwayn says she has
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: no intention of going through the test herself because it's
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: the law that she's already eyes to die. I dislike
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: this interpretation of what should be done. Agwayn had no
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: intention of going through the testing herself, and it didn't
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: need to. The law was specific by being made Omorland,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: she had become eyes to die.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I get it. I get it where
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: she feels like because the law says so I don't
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: have to do it, but it's like you're gonna make
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: they need do it and you're not gonna do it, Like.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Come on, well, and to me, it's more like, dude,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: you're going to be in charge of this institution without
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: going through one of the most important gauntlets that every
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: other woman in the entire yr institution has had to
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: go through. Like, yeah, you've been through some shit and
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: you will go through some more shit before this is done.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this this, I don't know. I mean, maybe
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: there's some sort of weird like power dynamic with like
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: she can't be at the mercy of women who are
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: going to be her subordinates, like for the duration of
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: the testing. Like, I just it feels like such a
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: cop out. And Agwaine is such a tryhard that I
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: don't understand why she's doing a cop out like that's
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I think what bothers me is that Agwayne is an
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: extra credit girly and this is her loophulling her way
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: out of required work. It just doesn't feel in character.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: It feels more like I don't want to write that.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Scenes to which I say, then do a cut to black.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: It's not that hard. Robert Jordan did.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: It, yeah, just to show her like shaken up afterwards
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't get to see Elaine's test, uh uh,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I mean for accepted, you know, like you can skip
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: it but have her have the growth. I don't know.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I I just it's not that it's about choice, it's
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: that it feels out of character to a GWayne, I
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: guess is more what bothers me.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I would like to see her maybe if she had
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: said and I will do it after the last battle,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: after the danger is done, I will confirm that I
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: can do the test right like, and then she dies
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: and she never gets to do it fine, right, if
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: that's how you wanted to play it, fine, But this
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: I don't need to feels out of character to me.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a woman who has never let extra
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: credit go unclaimed, and you're telling me that she let
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: that go unclaimed. I think not.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: So then she asks Elaine to make more dream tron
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: real because the rest were stolen by Shariam, right.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Which they didn't know Shuriam was a d It's just
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: like so much catching up news that's getting like YadA
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: YadA yaguain.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: It was definitely like that moment of like, oh, yeah,
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't tell you about that, so hold on, ketch up,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: ketch up, catch up. And then well she starts to
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: tell the story. I guess I should say, because she
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't get very far before the word goes off again.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, they bear, They get into the conversation, and
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: then Igwaine starts doing some really Brandon Sanderson op flippy
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: flippy tell Dironridde's stuff where she doesn't even think to move.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: She just moves like faster than thought, and it's very cool.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I enjoy it, but it is so Brandon Sanderson.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so she comes face to face with one
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: dark friend.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Is this a fan insert or does Talva have a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: pre existing experience existence in the book.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Ooh, I found two other ones, but I did not
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: look at Tulva. I don't see any reference. But this
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: is her only appearance.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: And she dies horribly. Yeah, I guess not every single one.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: No, she might be part of the group that fled.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: She might be one of those names.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: No, it says so right here she was one of
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: the Black Sisters who had fled the tower. Oh okay,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: never mind. My reading comprehension is cray up.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: But she is not mentioned in the list. She is
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: h her. This is still her first mention, even though
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: they're putting her in that group.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: We never got a complete list.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think we ever did.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: That seems like a weird oversight, mister r J. Maybe
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: he was leaving himself room to insert other named characters later,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: and he just wanted those blanks as like literal foreshadowing potential.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I can't find the specific list of the thirteen.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I can find lists of all the black odd Jaws
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: that we know of, but it would take a minute
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: to go through that and count which thirteen actually flowed
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: the tower.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: That would make sense to me that Robert Jordan less
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: some of them unnamed, just so that way he could
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: create loop backs later. And then Sanderson was like, oh, interesting, slack,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: I'll use that.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Because I know we have some of them because they
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: went through all the possessions. But I feel like they
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: were like they'd go through five or six the people's
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: possessions and then be like, oh, we went through the
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: rest of them. Yeah, and like they wouldn't. We wouldn't
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: get the full list of isaid Eye. But I could
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: be totally wrong. I could go back to those chapters,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: but whatever, that's a long time ago in real time
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: that we've since we've done those chapters.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I to totally imagine Robert Jorn be like, Nah,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna need to name someone later and I don't
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: know who it's gonna be, so I'm just gonna leave
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: a few blank. So yeah, anyway, Agwain finds this woman
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: tell the They begin to have an exchange, and then
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: alvi Iron shows up and Agwain manages to do the
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: thing where she dodges out of the way and the
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: enemies shoot each other. Well, yeah, one shoots the one
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: and tell the dies in a burning ball of fire
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: and alvar And gets away, and a Grain is very
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: annoyed about the entire exchange and starts thinking about weaves
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: versus Tellirunriod manipulation and the relative speed of those things,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: and hinting that this is all going to be very
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: very relevant in a subsequent experience. We are going to
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: be really leaning into it's just a weave, right, Like
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: this is this is some foreshadowing for when parent says
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: it's just a weave, Like no, really, agwayn everything is
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: just a weave. That that's it. Like the power of
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: tell I run Riod is so much greater than the
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: power of the One Power because it is the only
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: constant in the universe aside from the in the Dark
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: One boom.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Right, But you could argue that the One Power is
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: a manifestation of the Creator in the way that the
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: True Power is a manifestation of the Dark One, And
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: so they are in some ways equal in power.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're emergent properties, they're attenuated.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: I did like this little bit like right as Alviarn disappears,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Aguing goes burner and like that woman is literally burning
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: alive behind you.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, death behind you, all right?
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Dark. But yeah, this is sort of the beginning
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: of the end of the Thirteen. I feel like they slowly,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: like Sanderson kills off the Thirteen in battle one by
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: one until there's really none of them left, even though
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: there's a bunch of of other Dark friends out there
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: who die in all sorts of ways. I feel like
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: he really sort of wants to conclude that plot line
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: that the girls went off to hunt the Thirteen and
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: that sort of sent them out of the tower in
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: the first place, and he's like, all right, I'm going
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: to finish those girls off. And you know, this is
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: one of the first ones I think that really just
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: gets a lot of them burnt. A lot.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Fire is a very effective weapon, unfortunately, it really is.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: And yeah, neither of these authors is shy about just
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: immolating an entire character in one fell swoop.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: And yeah, so Talva is the first.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I think she's certainly the first of the cat and
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Mouse Teleron Riod Tower game that is being initiated. This
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: is kind of the first round. I mean really, at
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: the end of this chapter, right, Agwaine says, Okay, I
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: got preparations to make. Those preparations are what lead up
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: to the big battle in the tower, but also a
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: lot of smaller interactions where women die, and like it's
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: it's a whole long cat and mouse in Teleron Real
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: that takes many many nights, and this is, yeah, the
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: first contact of.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: That, and is also the place where parents storyline intersects
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: there because he brings the dream Spike to the White Tower,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: which then prevents the bad guys from fleeing, which sets
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: up the whole confrontation and changes the stakes and makes
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: it possible for a going to win.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Really, rat Masana's plant entire plan hinged on getting the
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Eyes to die to chase her out of the tower.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: When Parent shows up at the dream Spike, everything that
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: she planned goes to shit.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And then I love this line by Ninive. Walking into
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: traps is hardly the best way to defeat the mother,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Nive said flatly, both because of past and present and
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: future incidents.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: That is the thing you super girls do is you
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: walk into traps.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Over and over, really, and Ninive, that's like all you've done,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Tan Chico, and that when these.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Three women specialize in is walking into traps. Like these
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: three women in particular, it's a three three member team
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: of walk into traps and see what happens next.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: And then away. Depends on your preparation, because that is
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: really like, if you're prepared, it's less likely to be
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: disastrous for you.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And they always think they're prepared. They always say, well,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: if I know I'm walking into a trap, then it
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: will be fine. And then it's you know, one Matt
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Troomen later it's funny, right, but.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: You know one Gowin later for Agwayne. Yeah, there's a
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: certain amount of men pulling them out of traps that
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: they get themselves into.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Well, in this instance, I guess the men are the
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: smart ones because they were not inside the trap and
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: thus they were able to be on the outside of
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: said trap.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: They see a flutter of black cloth ducking around the corner.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Do you think that's Massana? Do you think it's Alvrn?
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's I bet it's Massana? I bet
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: you yeah. Dying on how Alvrn handled the situation as
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: alvr and was spying, and how tall thea handled the situation,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's one of those strings upon strings.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Is it possible that the first bell being run was
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: actually Massana?
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Now Massana's too good for that, too good at it
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: maybe noah, no, that's not true if it was land Fear.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, it might have been, right, It might
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: have been all three of them arriving and going to
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: their respective corners.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: I kind of seen Masana spying first, and then the
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: other ones showing up and attacking immediately, and Masana watching
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: the whole thing.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: The Shadows, yeah, because she knows that Agwayne is her
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: big prize, right, that's the big target. So like these
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: two Morlands are, you know, studying each other effectively? Right,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: as we learn in the next chapter, it's the whole
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: She's the shadows ombreline, Like they both study and prepare
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and watch and think. This is how they both operate.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I totally bet she's spying on all of this,
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, then Agwain says, I'm gonna find you,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: but not right now, and then they head off to
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the magical Meadow of Butterflies to finish catchup, which we
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: don't have to see on page and thus we cut
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: to the next day the next chapter.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Right now, nine Eve is wake after that meeting.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the next morning, right, because she says, okay,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I'll come asap. Agwain says, you have to come tonight
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: or tomorrow. And then he says, all right, okay, cool,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: So here we are next day. She's doing her stuff.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: This is chapter fifteen called use a Pebble, and the
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: symbol is the torn lace of the ages, right, the
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: bubble of evil symbol, for lack of a better.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Term, the torn pattern.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is Ninive and Naife, who is the
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Ashamon with the paranoid fantasies of fades, just following them
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: but never doing anything. And they are inspecting a bubble
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: of evil where everything has turned to the most flammable
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: powder you've ever experienced.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Just any fine powder, right, with that much surface area.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: That's the thing is, it's so fine. This is like
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: so in geology, particles sizes. Sand is actually a particle
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: and clay is actually a particle. It's that's not a
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: mineral composition. That is a size thing. This makes clay
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: look ginormous. Okay, Clay particles are the smallest particles you
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: can have. The it'sy bitsy little flat things that make
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: things like mudstone.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: Right, Remember kid, size matters.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really does. In this case the surface area
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: of flammability that it doesn't matter what it is if
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: it's this fine.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Well, especially when it comes to physics, right, like every
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: different when you look at things at different scales, different
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: physics actually does apply, especially when you go like atomic
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: sub atomic, right, Like there's different scales at which different
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: equations in different forces are much more important than others.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: One of the frustrating things about our reality is that
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: physics changes depending on scale. It's very annoying, but it
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: is real as far as we can tell, until we
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: make better physics, which you know, people are currently burning
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: themselves out trying to make better physics. They haven't done
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: it yet.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: But the fact that, like, temperature is an emergent phenomenon
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: of vibrating molecules, and it's like, what, how can temperature
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: not be real? But in a lot of ways, it's
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: just an emergent phenomenon, which and it turns out if
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: you go all the way down, it's just like, oh,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: we're all just an emergent phenomenon of vibrating fucking strength.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, Yeah, you think about it long enough, and
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: then someone comes along and says, do you know that,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: like consciousness is just an emergent property of vibrating strings,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: And you're like, well, I mean probably, yeah, you know,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: like sure.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Probably, why not?
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: We haven't proven it yet, but we think that's our
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: best theory right now.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, like we're out in some really weird weeds
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: at this point.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: And then when you're like, oh yeah, Robert Jordan news
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: string theory. He called it the pattern.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Mm mmmmm yeah, yeah, yeah, we're not really stretching here.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Robert Jordan was a literal string theory interested physics snowing person, right, yes, exactly,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: a light blinded fool science has finally arrived at the
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: realization that it is just vibes.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Man. Well, I mean, you want to really piss off
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: a physicists to ask him, can you tell me what
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: what a wave function represents? Please? Sir?
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? So nineven naife and he thinks about
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: how Nate is not getting worse in the aftermath of
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: the tank being cleansed, but he's not getting better either.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: This was one of the questions Rand and others had
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: going into the cleansing, and here we are seeing the
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: answer that the scars remain, the damage remains, that doesn't.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Go away, damage was done. Yeah, exactly right. I also
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: noticed that you know, her storm sense she's feeling the
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: last battle to the north.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, she's you know, frustrated by having to
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: obey agwayin because she just wants to go north and
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: do the land stuff. But like, you know, this is
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: what she's got to do.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: And they're being someone to this bubble of evil, right,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: So they're walking and she's kind of like, I wish
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: I could gateway like spoiled spoiled nine eve.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: And then she thinks, like kids these days have it
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: too easy with gateways. Her own feet aren't good enough
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: for us. So embodying contradiction as she is wanted to do.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: She's like Rand said he was going to fetch something.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: What is he fetching? Is it calendar?
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Must be because he squirreled he had kad swin squirrel
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: it away somewhere. I think, I don't know what would
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: he be fetching.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's interesting that he noticed it wasn't taken.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Or is it the seals that he thinks he has.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: Remember he thinks he has some of the seals and
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: then they learned later that they were that they were swapped.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Maybe this was him going to get those seals that
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: he hands to people.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: A lot of research in this chapter. Sorry, we keep
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: pausing to do research, but we keep hitting questions. Yeah. Sorry,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: it's either calendar or the seals. I can't find any
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: evidence for either one. There's also the seed that he
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: gives to a lane. Ah yeah, sorry, yeah, I'm just
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: not sure where what he's one of the many things
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: that he has in his possession. He went to fetch
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: really quick.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Rand has an undramatic experience of getting one of the many,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: many objects that he needs to collect. I guess tata
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't really matter.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Doesn't really matter. Sorry, I just well, you know, he
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: said you need to fetch something, and this is where
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: he's like doing a bunch of things.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: But don't apologize for being a nerd. It's just sometimes
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: there's nothing to that. There's no answer, all right.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: So they get to the beige section of the city.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which seems to be a perfect circle, right. They
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: say that they find people who just had like a
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: toe into the circumference of the thing and they're dead too, right. Like,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: most of the scene we see is her walking through
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: the middle of it where everything is destroyed, but apparently
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: all along the edge there's people who have been hurt
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: and buildings that have been partially damaged by this. It's
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: not like it was building specific. It's like just an
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: area of effect.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: It's like everything was changed to a very specific one
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: material right one. Everything was transformed into whatever it is,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: into a calcum powder or something like.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: It's or like, yeah, it's almost like a broken Earth
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: sort of transformation, like when they explode turned that whole
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: city into stone all at once. It's kind of like that,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: except this is not solid stone. This is the finest
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: powderiest stone you could ever have come across. And they
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: you know, collected into a pile and set it on fire.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: And it's not a big deal. But clearly the Bubble
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: of Evil was supposed to be twofold, right, it was
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: supposed to be first everyone dies and then essentially a
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: bomb goes off in the middle of the city when
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: like someone's you know, cigar spark like drifts on the
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: wind into the zone and just sets the whole you know,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: five blocks off. It would have been like an explosion
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: to have all of that stuff light up at once
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: well spread out.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what I wonder is like, because they condensed it,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: I would have think it would have been more of
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: an explosion when it all went off at once, as
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: opposed to when it spread out, like you're gonna have
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: more of a slow burn. It takes a while for
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: the fire to spread.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I was assuming it was like when flowers in the air.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: The fact that it's spread out makes for a more
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: concussive experience, Like if you just light a pile of
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: flour on fire, it doesn't explode.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: I guess that's true. Yeah, that maybe there wasn't enough
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: oxygen when they can then sit down that prevented it
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: from really exploding, exploding.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: You know, right, That's what I imagine is that really what's
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: happening here is there's a lot of air in the particles,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: and that's what would make the fire would have roared
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: outward and caught regular buildings on fire in all directions,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: and then you would have had the city on fire.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what I pictured, is like if any
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: of this caught on fire, it would just create a
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: conflagration around its border, right, it would all spread out,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: and like there'd be this ring of fire where everything
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: would catch on fire on the outside.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like you'd just be going along and then
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: a man taps out the dottle from his pipe and
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: suddenly the whole building is on fire, like in just
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: a few seconds, just like where did all that fire
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: come from? And it comes from this but no instaid
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: they condensed it into a little thing. And yeah, it's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: a really bright flame, but it's it's not along the
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: edge of five city blocks.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Well, and this is this is an incredibly creepy scene, right,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: crunching along through everything that used to be alive and
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: everything just disintegrating right like that. The horror of like
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: they see children playing, that's just it's everything. Imagine everyone's
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: life within you know, two block radius four block square
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: just ends. It's pretty horrific.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: It's like Pompeii, right, It's that sort of like seeing
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: the cast from Pompeii, but even faster, even faster. And
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: then yeah, the eeriness of she steps on the solid
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: stone of the street and the stone crumbles and her
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: foot doesn't stop until she touches the bare earth and
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: then that turns into nafe, like almost walking into a cellar.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: And then when they clear the area, it's just this
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: bare ground with these like weird pock marked holes in it,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: like even the stones of everything that a human ever touched,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: anything that had any amount of human intention in it
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: gone just gone so creepy. And the visual of her
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: walking through, you know, up to her knees, up to
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: her hips in the building because you can't walk up
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: into the building like you should, you're just pushing through
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: these ghost floorboards. It's just so eerie. It's so post apocalyptic.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And once they cleared out, there's no foundations. All
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: that's left is these holes in the ground where cellars
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: used to be. And it's just like in the middle
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: of the city, someone just scowed a hole and picked
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: everybody out. Everything that wasn't earth just got removed.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Like down to the last scraps of like trash that
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: had been kicked under the house and not looked for
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: in fifty years. That's gone too. Cat's scale attention, that
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: cat that like you never found right, Like, all of
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: it's gone. The dead rats in the attic, the everything
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: that one innkeeper that vanished mysteriously and then his wife
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: took over the business, no evidence of that crime left.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: It's all gone.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: And so I think what that basically does then need
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: is it gets her frustration up a little bit, right,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: She's like, God, damn it, I couldn't help any of
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: these people. They're all dead before I even got there.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I can't heal death. Well, God damn it, I'm gonna
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: help heal Nafe because I'm sick of this madness stuff. Right,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: And so that frustration, I think with her inability to
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: solve the problem of the bubble of evil is what
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: spurs her to take another shot at healing the madness
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: in Nafe.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: That's exactly how she healed Logan. She was so pissed
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: off at the eyes Toda, trying to fix her block
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: and dealing with Mghetti and being a prisoner and just
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: everything sucked. She was so mad that she just fixed Stilling. Yeah,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: so same deal here. She's mad that she can't fix
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: the world, so she cures cancer. She just cures cancer.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: It's fine, and it's sort of interesting that, Like, her
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: ability to cure has always been unquestionable, but it's her
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: ability to delve that's been refined over time, the ability
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: to find smaller and smaller things. Again, we were just
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: talking about the level of scale, right, She's able to
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: look at a finer scale and find things that work differently, right,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: instead of just a blob of madness, she looks at
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: the little hooks that dig into the brain, and she
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: can see where those hooks are so she can get
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: to them. And the way she can pry those hooks
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: away is different than just trying to negate the whole
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: compulsion at once.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love it both in world and at
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: a meta level, because this is again very Sanderson right,
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: very like ooh, we can zoom in, we can make
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: higher fidelity magic rules. You know, we've upgraded our writing skills.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: But also Niinieve's been studying with us to die. She's
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: been getting yellows to teach her even though they don't
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: really want to. Like, again, we're seeing actual growth because yeah,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: she And it's also nice just the idea that, yeah,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: raw power is important and skill is important. Right Oftentimes
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: in this world magic allows people to skip skill, but
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: it makes sense that medicine would be one of the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: exceptions to that. And no, you actually do need to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: study in order to get the data. You need to
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: use your great power with the skill and dexterity necessary.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: And a lot of ways this isn't just the healing, right,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: she heals the little spots where the hook was in
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: the brain. Right, even though I don't know, brains don't
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: really but whatever. But she's also fighting this thing, right,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: She's using raw power to hold it in place like
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: a slippery little bastard. Right, this is the enemy. It's
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: a piece of the enemy, and so she has to
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: hold it in place while she also removes the spikes
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: and heals.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: It's a very complicated procedure. It's not just a one
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: and done hit it with power. There's an order of operations,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: and you can't unlock certain things until you've completed other steps.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: And yeah, the whole healing the brain. There's definitely some
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: blurring of the metaphysical and the physical in that, but honestly,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: that's kind of how good channeling scenes have always been.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: It's like you can't quite tell what is just happening
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: in their like theater of mind, versus what's literally happening
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: to the patient. It's kind of a fun part of healing. Yeah,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: she manages to use lessons learned while lobottomizing curb tootomized Mefe.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: She literally kind of sort of risks lobotomizing him because
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: she's so pissed she doesn't even ask his consent, but
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: it works. The compulsion from the dark one is different
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: than compulsion from grandall in that it doesn't leave you
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: scrambled at the end. Also, I wonder if she could
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: have healed Curb's brain.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Doing it pulling it out that way, as it was
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: just overlaying an anti weave and then it leaves all
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: these like holes.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Gotta wonder.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it could also be the way something grows
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: versus like something that's implanted.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, this isn't an installed module.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: This is, yeah, a growth.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: But you could also think of it as like, oh,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: you put your drywall anchors in the brain, and if
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: you just yank that out, you're pulling out like all
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: the brain with it, right, because it's just it's anchored
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: in there. But if you carefully take out everyone and
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: then patch it, you can actually get away without destroying
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: the brain.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I need does not ask for consent very
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: frequently when she's doing her healing. Yeah, just come here
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: and let me do it. It's best for you.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just because she knows that she means well doesn't
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: mean that the patient knows. And yeah, it's the assumption
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: of benevolence is Yeah, I could do with the healer
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: having slightly more awareness of consent. That would have been nice.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: It's the motherly instinct. The dark patch undulated and shook
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: like something alive. Then it vanished. Where did it go
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: back to the Dark One?
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: I would assume. So, yeah, like a little little gust
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: of self that gets returned.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Did it just like dissipate into the air, So there's
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: a little more taint like radiation in the environment.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: It's like a matter antimatter interaction, where like the power
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: she put into it like perfectly matched and negated the
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: absence that because I mean that's what the Dark One is, right,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: is entropy and absence. So if she puts the precise
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: amount of power into it, maybe it just poofs away.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: Mmm. I think more it's attached from its anchor point,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: and it's just like I think it just slithers back
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: to the Dark One basically.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes the most sense.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: Slithers it's got some attachment to him. Yeah, fades back,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: goes through the metaphysical Teleron read back to the Dark
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: One into his prison, right, Like, Yeah, if you can
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: think of again the Dark One, you can think of
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: him a bit of as a black hole. Right, and
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: so he's got this gravitational pull, so.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: They just cross back over the event horizon into the
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: black hole, yeah, basically, and then she has this great thought,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: you know, because Nate is very happy, and then Ninievea's like,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I can't let myself begin to think that nothing I
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: do matters. That's what the dark One wants, which you know, yeah,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: don't give up prematurely in the face of creeping evil.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: That is what they want. That is what the Dark
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: One wants. That is what the forces that are trying
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: to ruin your entire existence want, is for you to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: give up prematurely so they don't actually have to fight you.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: That's the evil guys always want, So don't do it.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: And that's what rand overcame with veins of.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Gold, right right exactly. We might have to fight again,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: but we also can love again, so it's worth it.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: So rand returns with two Maidens of the Spear, Soma
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: and Kanara.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Are these the fan inserts you found? You referenced?
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: These are fan inserts I found? Yeah, these are both fans.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Let's see. Soma is named for Lisa Sommerfield, a fan
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: of the Wheel of Time, and Kanara is named for
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Karen Clark, a fan of the Wheel of Time.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Fantastic. I like now just every time there's like ideal
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: guards that get a name that we don't recognize, I'm like, oh,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: a fan got to be an ideal alig Berkeley technically
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: in a small way. And also I like that Ninieve
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: is also doing the pr humanitarian thing of like meeting
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: with the survivors of the bubble and like talking with them.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: That it was like a thing that Moraine did, like
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: way back when, yeah, when there was a disaster.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even if she was just searching for information.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like she it's this rich person thing.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: She was a little cynical about it. Yeah, No, I.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: Neve was cynical about Moraine doing. And I don't think
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: Moraine was cynical about it.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Oh you mean back when she was looking for rand.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, Like it's not in Barra long because
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: they have to leave too fast. But there's an instance
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: where she gets down and is interacting with people and god,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: I cannot remember, like what city was it in who
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: through the fire bomb? But anyway, I just think it's
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: nice to see And I said, I doing more than
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: magic stuff, but actually interacting with the commoners, and like
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: doing the the human thing, you know, not just doing
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: the magic god thing.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: The thing that the yellow Ajash should be doing this
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: entire time, which is being out there and healing people
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: and outreaching.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: And yes, basically I'm really enjoying seeing Ninive be a
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: yellow in every capacity. Right, She's healing stuff because she's
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: angry at the world. She's finding her purpose through healing.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: She's you know, just telling people that she hears them
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: and that that was frustrating. Oh yeah, she did that
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: thing in Vandor Evan. Yes, but it's just, you know,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: it's just nice.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: I like to little exchange between Rand and I. Neve
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: you care for my people. Thank you. I care for
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: when even need it, as you've always done, along with
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: caring for some who don't need it like you, she said,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: raising an eyebrow. No, I've always needed it.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: That and more, No, I've always needed it. Is such
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: a fantastic line, the teasing rapport between them, but also like,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, Rand's grown up a lot. Rand's grown up
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: a lot a lot. He's saying that he always needed
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: I need even when she wasn't there, He needed her,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: That's what he's saying.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: And even when he denied it, he always needed her.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: He's like, there's never been a time I didn't need you,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: no matter what has happened. I actually needed you, regardless
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: of what I thought. And it's just aw And.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: Then so he's sort of being shown the bubble of
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: evil and he's like, oh, yep, he wants to do
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: this the whole world. And that's why we can't delay anymore. Right,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: We've really gotten to this point where he's winning by
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: slowly eroding away the fabric of the universe. He's corrupting
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: our food, he's breaking down what location means. He's creating
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: bubbles of evil that are killing lots of people. He
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: is slowly wearing away our ability to fight by slowly
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: breaking down the pattern. And if we wait too much longer,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: we're not going to be able to fight against him
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: because our world is going to be in such disarray.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: And so I have to take the fight to him.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: He is perfectly fine winning by sitting up in his
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: castle and dropping bombs on us.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a war of attrition can be very effective. If
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: you're on the losing side, at some point, it is
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: worth throwing everything you've got into a final assault rather
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: than just getting nibbled to death, bite ducks. And like
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: you were saying earlier, as the dark Ones pushing harder
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: and harder and harder to break through, the bubbles of
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: evils are coming harder and faster. Right, this is a
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: direct representation of how long the dark One has been
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: pushing on the seals. And so, yeah, it does make
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: sense to pick a date to break the seals. And
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: I am I don't think it's tevere and that convinces
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: I neive that Rand is right. I think it's logic and.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Common greeds and trusting Rand.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: Interesting Rand because he's literally a dragon reborn. Maybe he
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: knows what he's talking about.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: So and he does the thing where he's like, all right,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: if you're going back to the White Tower, that's fine,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: but don't let them ruin you. Right, Like I tried
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: to be like them, cold and logical, But you have
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: to care. The caring is what makes you who you are.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: You care about people I need, even if you don't ask,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: necessarily care about their consent.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: You care too much for him to care about consent.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, the way he says that there are
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: many kinds of strength, the way that the eyes to
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: die hold up on a pedestal is not superior to
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: the other kinds of strength that exists in this world.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: And that's a nice thing to be told. After these
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: books have gone on for two decades about how there's
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: only one right way to exist. It's nice to be well,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a couple different right ways to exist.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: Then he says, I want you by my side at
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: shale Ghoul. I need you to help me fight the
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: dark one basically use one and use calendar specifically.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: I trust you to not manipulate me in the bad
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: way while having control over me in this most important
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: of fights. I don't know who's gonna be your number two,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: but I know that you're going to be my number one.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: It's Moraine because she's going to be rescued.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: By Well, that's why Rand doesn't know who the second
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: is going to be is because the perfect candidate has
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: yet to be rescued from the Tower of Genschai. Because
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: obviously he would pick Moraine, like obviously if she was here,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: he would pick her without a second thought.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: So and can't be Alaye because she's babies, impregnant and
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: all that stuff.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Avianda would have worked. Avianda is strong enough and
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: unattached enough and good enough with hand to hand combat
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: that she would have been an acceptable choice, I think.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: And she's there fighting for him, defending him in that moment,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: she's just outside.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she's one tier of defense, well, two tiers
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: of defenders out because technically Tom is another tier of defender.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she is fighting in the pit of shale
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: Ghoul to keep the entrance of the cave safe. But
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: she would have been fine in the cave too. As
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: far as effectiveness goes, she definitely would have been more stabby,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: that's for sure.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: And then she delves Rand and sees the darkness in
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: his mind, and I just want to read this, She stiffened.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: The darkness was enormous, covering the entirety of his mind.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Thousands upon thousands of the tiny black thorns pricked into
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: his brain, but beneath them was a brilliant white lacing
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: of something, a white radiance like liquid power, light given
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: form and life. She gasped. It coated each of the
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: dark tines, driving into his mind alongside them. What did
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: it mean? She didn't have any idea how to begin
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: working on this. There were so many barbs. How could
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: he even think with that much darkness pressing against his brain,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: and what had created the whiteness. She'd healed ran before
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: and hadn't noticed it then. Of course, she'd never seen
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: the darkness until recently. Her practice with delving was likely
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: the reason. So it's not Sidine because she can see it,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: because she can see it, And.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: It's not the dark one because that would be dumb. So, yeah,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: the creator, power.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Nature, the power pee and here this liquid power right,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: this radiance, this weave, this lattice, this lattice of the
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: pattern that he's using, right, and it's something we've seen
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: amused before. It really seems to be the power directly
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: of the Creator.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: The synthesized male and female existing at once to drive
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: the wheel of the universe in its completed state rather
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: than in its dynamo pieces. Yeah, exactly, it can't be
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Sidine or Sidar because she would identify it either as
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: an absence or as a sidear. Right, she would know
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: if it was Sidar.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, and in a lot of ways, I
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: could say, well when did this last appear? Well, the
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: last appears during veins of gold. A lattice in veins
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: of gold seem like they might be related.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, I assume that this is entirely a veins of
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: gold moment thing.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: And what is veins of gold, veins of gold is love.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: So what is the power love?
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: Love is the power.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: Love is the power. That's the power that's he's using
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: to you know, that is the true one power that
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: drives the wheel.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not like the Creator has intervened and
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: woven a counterweave in Rand's brain against the dark one.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think that his brain is literally a chessboard
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: for two different like beings. I think like it's literally love.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Like he his revelation is what unlocks that. It's not
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: like he's he's not just a battlefield. It's it's his choice.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: It's his revelation that makes that possible.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's also keeping those connections right because that
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: gives him the knowledge of his past life. That is,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: that corrupts the pattern enough to give him the unknawn
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: trollability of having the memories of a past life.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: You got a yes, and you can't just shut the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: thing down. You have to yes. And rules of improv
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: apply to the end of the world.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: And so I wonder, you know, and that's where like, oh,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: all these thorns are all throughout his brain. If she
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: were able to remove those, would he lose Lewis theren
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Would you go back to being just Rand?
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: I mean probably probably he would still maintain all of
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: the lived experience he had talking to Luce there and
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't vanish. But yeah, he I totally think so.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I totally think if she was able to do that,
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: she would lose LuSE thearin.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: In the way that Nate lost the mrdrawl in his head.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: And they are just an hallucination, right, like the memories.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: No, in fairness, Rand doesn't hear luctherin anymore, right, He's
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: got that whole We're integrated.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: Now, yes, right, right, right right?
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: You know again he's kind of ahead of her.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: On that, like yeah, yeah, I mean he's merging together.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And that's a really interesting question. Would he
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: he'd have to lose something right or not? Or has
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: he fixed it? I mean that's the thing is like
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: does the whiteness yes, and or does it in the
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: gate right?
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: That's that's kind of the question to me.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: He feels like it's working with the darkness.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I prefer yes, and as an
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: answer to all situations. I just it's more narratively satisfying
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: because you have to deal with it because I'm a
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: theater kid. Yes, and uh, I love too. How Rand
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: has no idea what she's healing or attempting to heal, right,
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: like normally, like he describes you to her feeling it
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: and he's just like, oh, I'm so sorry, it's my
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: side wounds, like it's fine. She's like no, I wasn't
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: even thinking.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: About this, right, She's like, I'm trying to heal from
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: your madness. And he's like, oh, you can deal madness.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: She's like, well I did it inna if. He's like
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: to lean with that next time.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: And it's so fun too, because again Rand has discovered
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: his full humanity again. Right, He's so excited about this
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: because Lose Farren even like this, this is something that
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: would have impressed those there, and like Frand is so
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: excited for her that she has discovered this. This is
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: truly new information.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: Well, but how much of this is a misnomwork because like, oh,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: even the age of Legends, they couldn't heal diseases of
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: the mind. And I'm like this, this is a very
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: specific corruption of the mind. This madness comes from a source,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: and she is removing the source. This isn't applicable to
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: people who have actual mental illness, true, but.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: It's also not the first time she's healed something that
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: people in the Age of Legends couldn't heal, right, because
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: they couldn't heal severing, and she did so. Not the
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: first time that she's literally surprised in Age of Legends
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: level person. But that is an interesting question.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: I just wonder if Frank's overblowing it and being like, oh,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: you can now heal like mental health disorders, and it's like, well, no,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: I can heal like specifically the people who are affected
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: by the taint.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: This is such a Mormon way of looking at things,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: though the ableism baked into Mormon theology is like, really,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: overt tell me more. The just Heaven involves everyone being
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: fixed healed. Yeah, oh and made white also, But we
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: don't need to get into that part right now. Literally
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: people will yeah, people will be will be fixed of
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: their physical, mental, and racial ailments and made into the
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: perfect white beings that everyone is truly destined to be.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: I did not know that was, But we don't need
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: to get deep into that but just the the ableism
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: that is super baked into this worldview feels so Mormon,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: just like well, to be to be saved is to
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: be corrected to a normal, functional person, and madness can
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: be cured. Madness can be cured is a thing that
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: has led to a lot of terrible things in this world.
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: The idea that you can be cured of your mental illness.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: Is that boy needs a lobotomy.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: Sometimes there are good things to be discovered from trying
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: to figure out why someone's brain seems to be malfunctioning,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: and sometimes you end up with really state wide systemic eugenics.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: So uh yeah, So that's a thing that always felt
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy to me until now you have just
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: ruined this moment for me. I still like this exchange
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: between them and now I just my neive, don't be
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: an ablest ran. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: But but this is I do feel though, Right like
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: if if for some reason, someone was in an accident
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: and they got a chemical in their eye and you
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: could spray a neutralizer that gave them their eyesight back, right, like,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: no one would be like, oh no, I don't want
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: that because I don't want to be ablest right, Like
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: everyone be like yeah, I want my eyes back, yeah right,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: Like for sure, this is like you can't heal all blindness,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: but you can heal the people who were exposed to
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: this very dangerous chemical.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is super valid. We should heal people who
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: have been damaged by industrial accidents. Those people deserve top
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: level medical care.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: And really, if you think about what the Dark One is,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: he's I mean, they were drilling for power, so he
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: really is an industrial accident and all the fallout from
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: him really is just the toxic waste in order to
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: get power. Yeah.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you could just throw a foam onto
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: radioactive waste and have it, you know, just stop being radioactive,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: we would put a lot of money into that, for sure.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah totally.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: So yeah, all that to say is complicated, and your
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: mileage may vary on those takes.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: So I like how she's like, I might not have
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: a chance to get to the Black Tower, but I'll
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: heal them too. She's healed one person, right, and she's like, yeah,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: I'll just get the rest of the Black Tower, no problem,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 2: narishma everybody here, and then you know, I don't know
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: if I'll be able to get to the Black Tower.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she says, she'll heal the other Twuashamon that are
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: there and maybe everyone else.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: And maybe everyone else if I can get out to it.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: It's just like, okay, and I need maybe you should
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: teach some people how to do this.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: But go to the White Tower and teach a bunch
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: of yellows how to do this, and then we will
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: go to the Black Tower. That would be a much
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: better project pitch.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: And then this moment pisses me off with rand. I
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: will need to send someone there, but we'll be handled carefully.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: Something's happening with them, but I have so much to do.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: He never fucking handles the Black Tower. He sends them
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: a letter that says be men, not tools.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: After after everything has been dealt with, after Logane and
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Andrel have completely cleaned up his mess with the help
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: of Pavar, and that's about it, and some two rivers boys.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, Brand, yes, you needed to send somebody.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: You needed to do something about this right like it was.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: I think he lost a lot of warriors who got
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: turned that he didn't need to lose because he led
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: it faster.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: If he had sent someone at this point. If he
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: had said, oh yeah, he heil up those three asham
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: on and then this evening we're to go to the
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Black Tower and start sorting stuff out, he could potentially
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: have had a lot more people on his side instead
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: of functioning as dread lords. That's yeah, it is one
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: of his biggest failures in zen Rand state, that's one
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: of zen Rand's biggest failures by a long shot. It's
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: just never dealing with the Black Tower. But you know,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: much like Agwayne, he's dealing with too many things to
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: do all at once. He's got a certain amount of
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: resolution and power. He's out of the tunnel of trying
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: to just survive another minute with himself. Now he has
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: a million things to do and he has to prioritize,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: and it's really hard.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: Why do I again feel like this is Sanderson talking
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: to us on the metal level, being like, I can't
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: include all your favorite things. There's too much to do.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: I have to get to the last battle.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: I do feel like he's looking at us straight in
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: the eye saying I can't do it all.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: Everything's crumbling, it's falling apart. I might as well like
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: I have to pull the trigger at some point while
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: we're still strong, I can still write this book.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then yeah, she takes off to go to
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: the White Tower to get more as a die like
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: and also traumatized, and we return to the White Tower
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: and to GWayne. Though we're in the real world now,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: we're not in the dream world. We are in the physical,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: waking world.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would assume this is also the next morning,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: so kind of the same time.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, same day. Yeah. Yeah, she's mid meeting when we
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: join her.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: And so things are going stale again. Rand's been away
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: long enough that the dark Ones influences creeping back in
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: when she thinks the land is one with the dragon. Right,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: how many times have I said that it's always funny
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: to see someone Oh yeah, Agwayne's thinking that when she's
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: thinking about the food corrupting, right, Like that is what's
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: going on.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: Because Sanderson wants us to I know that he knows that. Yeah,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: we know that he's a fan.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, like the way he's of that.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, she goes back into the meeting, which
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: is the meeting where the Black Aja Hunters have turned
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: their energy to figuring out how Masana is still in
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: the tower and Ciane is reporting on the ways that
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: one might subvert the oathrad. We go through three different methods,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: which are interesting. I don't know if you want to
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: go through them in detail. But the upshot is that
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: if you can find three methods, that means that she
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: found a way to defeat it. You don't have to
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: determine which method she used. The point is there are
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: ways to defeat the oath rad. That is empirically true.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: She figured it out. Move on to the next problem.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: And I think we have a word to Brandon that
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: one of those three is the way she used. They
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: guessed correctly. One of the methods. I think it's the
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: one where she altered her voice so she said I
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: will do whatever I want.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: I agree. That seems like the simplest with the mechanics
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: of the world as we understand them. You set those weaves,
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: you tie them off in your room, all of that
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: good stuff. You go to the meeting done.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: Maybe later you snink back in, grab the oth rod
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: and break it, you know, and take the oath off
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: of yourself.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Just swear to continue enjoying to eat blue
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: cheese on crackers.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: But there is an effect of having an oath on you. Right,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: there is that shortened life span. Oh that's true tightening,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: right like all of that stuff.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: But apparently it's easy to steal. So now that's a
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: really good point that the life span thing. She would
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: want to release herself, even from a frivolous of But what.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, you can either send a look alike to take
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: the oath right or someone under compulsion so they could
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: swear that they weren't under they weren't a Dark friend, okay, whatever,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: or if she just has another oath Rod right like,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: because they're not sure. Again, it's plausible, but nobody knows
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: for sure if one oath Rod could take off the
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: oath of the other. Remember that was the whole problem
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: with Galina, right, is that she couldn't flee because she
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: wasn't sure if you could remove one oath Rod taken
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: away because they've only ever had the one oath rod,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: right so, and they barely knew that that oath Rod.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: They are only finding out, the non Dark friends are
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: only finding out now that that oath rod can take
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: off the oaths. That was not something that was widely
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: known until GWayne made them do it all.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: But the voice weave is the easiest one to imagine.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: And then you just sneak in and unswear totally. And
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: then we get the title of the chapter. The chapter
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: is titled use a pebble, and this is wisdom from
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: Maren alvir Agwain's mom. Never use a boulder when a
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: pebble will do. This is a GWayne realizing she's overcomplicated
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: the problem. She thought it would be hard for someone
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: to defeat the oath rod. Turns out it's easy. She
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: was assuming it would need a boulder when it turns
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: out not Pebble's fine, Oh you need it was a pebble.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: You can do. You can do literally a magic trick
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: right to fool them, rather than using the One power
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: to defeat the oath rod.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: Right, don't defeat the oath ride. You just find a loophole.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a weave. Right, She's really exactly the
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: exactly mind. The power is not the be all end
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: all of things. You can get around it in a
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: lot of ways.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: This is this is the blind spot that the Amberlance
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: Seat is going to have because she is the institution
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: of women who use the One power academically.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: So they get some information about Massana, right, like some
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: backstory that more than we get for most forsake. And
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how much of this we knew before
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: the scene.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: I think we knew most of it because I'm pretty
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: sure this information has been included in.
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: Like the companion and stuff.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the sort Yeah, exactly, the other source book
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: type stuff that goes along. I'm pretty sure that we
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: knew most of their backstories by now. But yes, this
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: is another one of those instances of we need to
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: make the bad guys less of myths and more of people,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: So let's just put the myths together and try to
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: like determine facts from it.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: And it's basically she didn't get tenure, she went and
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: got her PhD and did not get tenure and went
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: to the evil side, but then they stuck her in
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: a library anyway, and she's pissed about it.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: The way Agwain describes her as an administrator who hates
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: being relegated to that role, like you're good at this,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: so you will never get to do anything you want
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: to do because you're good at this and no one
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: wants to do it, so we're going to make you
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: do it. Even in the evil side. It keeps happening
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: to her.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: She wished to be a researcher but was rejected. Yeah,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of people who can't have rejection in the forsaken.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like rejection, sensitivity, ridiculousness, and selfishness
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: are probably wound together, you know that hole, Like they
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: have to be selfish, Like being unable to handle anyone
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: not respecting them in every particular would go along with selfishness,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: right I think so?
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, and about the shortened life span, So I
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: think the Forsaken are immortal in the way that if
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: they die they get a new body, not immortal in
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: the way that they don't age. Ever, I think their
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: age is slowed because their channelers. But I think the
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: whole like forsaking can never die, is just like, oh well,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: then the dark If you die, the dark one will
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: just make you a new body. Or if you get
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: too old, you can like he'll just put you in
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: a new body. But like that's not you live forever.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: That's he controls death, that can pop your soul into
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: a new body and you start over again.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: It has a lot to do with healing too, right,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: So for some reason, evil powers can always max out
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: your cellular life.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and we did see what agon or reverse age.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sucking on that pure male power, that pure
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: male power. He was just sucking on it phrasing.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, speaking of right access to the pure power that
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: was on Rand's brain. Right, Maybe part of the reason
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: the eye of the world had to be there is
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: to prime him for being to channel this like pure
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: one power thing that exists outside. I've heard a lot
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: of people speculate that I don't necessarily thing, So I
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: think it was just a well of power to use
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: to defeat the army that would have otherwise destroyed Randland.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: Right, That's what I think. But that's an interesting theory.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I've heard the theory that like it was
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: a primer to get him ready to fight the last
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: battle that he needed that sort of like kickoup and
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: skill level and to experience what channeling the true power,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: like the true one power? God? Yeah, will want true power?
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, the way that that's such an overloaded term. Yeah.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: So with respect to Masana, the other really interesting thing
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: about her is that, in addition to being a failed
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: researcher and a relegated administrator, she is a general who
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: is capable of getting down in the mud and showing
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: the soldiers what to do. She is actually someone who
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: will fight directly in a way that Grandall will always flee, right,
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: Messana will actually at some point choose to stand and fight,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: and that will be her undoing in a little.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: Bit, even though we've never seen that from her, No.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: But that's part of the lore of who people think
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: of or like what we know of her through the histories.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: We haven't seen that, but now, honestly we kind of
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: have because she has been very dogged in every mission.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: She's set herself too, right, she hasn't left the White Tower,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: despite the fact that the coup happened or the reverse
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: coup happened, right, but like she's locked onto it. She's
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: just absolutely she does not switch missions. When it gets hard,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: she digs in harder and that's very Agwain like.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: And she has been successful. Right, She's broken the White Tower.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: It has remained broken for a long time. It has
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: been corrupted on both sides with a dark friend, you know,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: right behind the Amulin. She nearly brought them to battle
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: multiple times. She was essentially crippling them. And like, if
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: you look at what happened in the White Tower, and
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: the way Elida banished a bunch of them, and then
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: the way they're invaded, Like the countdown to the number
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: of actual eyesaid Ie left in the tower was like
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: two hundred or something maybe less right, Like it's just
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: crazy as if you think about the White Tower as
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: they talk about being it being empty, when there were
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: three thousand people inside of it, and so you know
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: this institution that must have been ten, maybe you know,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: twenty thirty thousand people living in there at one time,
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: as we'reduced to a couple hundred.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: And then the other really interesting thing that we get
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: from the lore is that Masana was second only to
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: Demondred in sheer Anger, which I think is a very
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: interesting observation. Demondred obviously being just come at me bro
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: for the entire last battle, like until three successive men
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: managed to kill him, and it you know, they even
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: point out here like because Gwen says, well, I thought
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: they were all hateful, and you know Ciane has to
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: say or Sayeren has to say no, no, not hate anger,
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: and like really making you the reader think about the
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: difference between those two things and how that exists. There
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: is nuance even within evil. Right, evil is not one
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: monolithic thing. There's many many facets.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: Because I'd say, like jealousy also, right, there's hate, there's anger,
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: there's jealousy. Right, all of those are different characteristics that
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: made people, especially the men, turn to the dark one.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think it's really interesting that the thwarted
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: academic who's good at administration but doesn't like it is
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: the angry one. I just think that's so interesting and
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: almost relatable. Like, if I was going to be evil,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like my uppermost emotion I would be like
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: leading with to take me through my evil path would
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: be anger. Like that would be how I would drive
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: my evil direction. So, and I've always liked Massana as
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: in terms of being like, yeah, she's the bookish one
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: who just will not let go of her mission. I
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: don't know, I like hurt the most of the various
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: forsaken archetype things. And yeah, the fact that anger is
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: her primary emotion just feels relatable.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like she's a toddler who wants to break
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: things right, and she's like, oh, white tower, I'm gonna
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: break it, you know, cracks it in half, he throws
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: this piece away, throw those that piece away. Anytime someone
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: tries to build something, she's just stomping all over it.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: She's like, screw you. I don't want you to build
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: anything successful, and I will go out of my way
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: to ruin anything you do rather than build something on
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: my own, because you denied me from getting into your
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: ivory tower.
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Toddler in a meltdown. Absolutely. I love the image
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: of her just stomping on a sand castle, kicking over
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: a Jenga tower.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, with like Suan and Elida and like Ggwayne trying
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: to set up their respective towers all at the same time. Yeah,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: and she's going from one to the other, like undermining
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: them each, like digging a hole next to it so
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: it falls, flashing water on the other one, kicking the
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: third one down.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that's all I got. There's I got. I
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: got the readout.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I would agree read out.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: She tried to deliver a broken white tower, Agwayne thought,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: but that has failed. She was probably part of the
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: attempt to kidnap rand as well. Another fiasco, and the
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: women sent to destroy the Black Tower. Masana would need
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: something grand to offset so many failures. Killing Agwayin would
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: work that might send the White Tower back into division.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: Gwen had been mortified when she said she might use
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: herself as bait. Did she do so? She gripped the
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: railing standing above the tower, above the city that depended
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: on her, looking out on a world that needed her.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: Something had to be done, Masana had to be drawn out.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: If what Sarahen said was true, then the woman would
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: be willing to fight directly. She wouldn't hide hope from
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: the shadows. No, she can do both. Equain's task then
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: was to tempt her with an opportunity, one that didn't
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: seem obvious, one she couldn't resist. Come again, said, walking
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: toward the ramp back down into the dower. I have
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: some preparations to make quilting. Quilting, quilting, quilting.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: That counter is just going up every time you say quilting.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: Show of hands from the audience, live and recorded, how
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: many of you are quilters? Because I have just been
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: bit by the quilting book. I have finished my first
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: piece top. I have not done my sandwiching because I
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: don't have enough batting. But I officially would like to
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: quit everything in my life except for cutting and pressing
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: and stitching. That's the only thing I would like to
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: do with my life from now on, please and thank you.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: That is my ted talk.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: I'm familiar with some of those words, you're using them
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: in a context I am not familiar with. And that's
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: confusing me a little bit because I don't understand. You know,
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 2: I kind of do, because I kind of know what
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: quilting is, but I really don't.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: Well, I barely know what quilting is. My mom decided
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: she wanted to get me into quilting this summer. So
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: she's now given me several books that she's gotten from
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: second hand stores and stuff strip quilting and machine quilting
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: and peace quilting and all this stuff, and she got
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: me started on my very first set of blocks. Like
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: it's just square, well triangles. Actually, it starts out with
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: you cut out squares and then you make them into
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: try and then you assemble them and it's like the
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: simplest possible design. But it's just very satisfying because it's
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: all about precision, right. You make first of okay, first
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: of all, so with sewing, you normally have shears like scissors, right,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: and they distort the fabric as you cut. With quilting
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: that will never work for how precise everything is. So
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: you have a rotary cutter, and that is the coolest
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: thing ever, Oh my god, the fact they're so sharp
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: and and it just it cuts so precisely. So you
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: have all of these like hard plastic things that you
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: can use to create guidelines, so you can cut things
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: super precisely, so precise, and then you line them up
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: and you pin them really precisely, and then you put
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: them through the sewing machine at an extremely precise seam
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: allowance and it's very very precise. And then you have
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: to press it iron it the very hot iron, and
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: turn it and press it again and make it all
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: very very crispy and like laid out, and the seama
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: allowance has to be like all pressed to one side
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: and like extremely pressed and crispy. And then you just
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: keep doing that in bigger and bigger spirals, and it
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: not spirals, but like it iterates upwards. Sometimes it's spirals,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: and it's I guess said, this is my very first quilt,
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: so it's not super precise. There's a lot of things
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: wrong with it. I just picked some random fabric and
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: kind of just started slamming it together because I wanted
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: to learn the basic mechanical skills before getting like lost
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: in the weeds of like, oh no, my points don't match.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: This is really important fabric Like that's for later. And yeah,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: I've gotten to the point where I've done the top,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: so I have six big squares and it's like it's
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: not a huge quilt, but you know, and a quilt,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: a quilt is defined as a sandwich, right, It's two
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: layers of fabric with something squishy in between. Like that
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: is a quilt in terms of it being a blanket.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't have quite enough batting to do that,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: so I get to skip the part that's boring where
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: you have to sandwich the thing together and like baste
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: it and figure out how to stitch over the whole
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: thing to like make it get held together, which apparently
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: there's this whole machine called a long armish where the
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: quilt basically stays in place and the machine moves over
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: it to do the like invisible patterned stitching that holds
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: everything together and keeps it from sliding. Yeah, apparently a
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: lot of people just do the top part and then
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: pay someone else to do the other parts, kind of
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: like taking a picture to a frame shop, like you
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: pick out the batting and the fabric, but then they
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: have the cool machine and the skills and they actually
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: assemble it and make it look nice so that you
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: have a finished thing. And some people use quilts for
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: wall hangings or for blankets or tablecloths, you know, Like
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: there's so many different kinds of applications for the basic
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: concept of quilting. Obviously, Also, quilting is like a thing
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: poor people do to save fabric, right. There's lots of
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: instances of people who are poverty stricken being like, well,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: if we take these bits and pieces of fabric and
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: stick them together, we're still warm, right, So there's many
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: many regional cultures or regional styles of quilting that are
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: based on that. Gleaman Gleaman obviously a great example of
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: a quilting style sort of thing being done there.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: They're just like letting the ends. I feel like they're
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: quilting it together, just not trimming the ends, and that's
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: where you get that fluttering in the wind bit of.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: It, which definitely makes all of the quilters who like
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: precision very angry. But it's a stylistic choice especially, I
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: mean that's the whole thing.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: Is he's advertising it right like this is this is
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: an advertised not the normal way of doing it. Right,
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: These are my multi colored lots of different patches quilting.
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: Right. And now I have a new way in which
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: to conceptualize what I'm going to do with all my
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: scraps from other projects. I can say, like, I don't
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: know what to do with these. I guess I'll give
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: them to like Saint Vinnie's so that they can shred
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: it for packing material. And I was like, oh no,
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: if this is a cool fabric, I can just put
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: it into a basket and say, eventually I can quilt it.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: Eventually I can quilt it into something like this is
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: gonna be it? Just it satisfies so many parts of
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: my crow brain, my goblin brain.
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: The horder part, the back rat part.
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: Uh huh. Well, all hoarders, all quilters are hoarders. Like,
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: that's just a thing. All of them have fabric, more
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: fabric than they could ever sown their lives. It's just
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: a thing. Sewing people are like that. Sewing people are
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: materially grounded people. We need our stuff in order to exist, right,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: But it's just it fits the same boxes as like
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: candy crush. Right, it's like these just these little these
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: little hitzo dopamine as you just go through these steps.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: And also it's so autistic, like it's so freaking autistic. Like, yeah,
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: autism didn't exist until just recently. Tell that to all
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: of our grandmothers who invented sitting in a room cutting
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: up tiny little pieces of fabric into very precise shapes
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: and putting them all together very precisely, over and over
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: and over again. Yeah. No, autism definitely just just came
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: about for sure.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: For sure. I also can't think evolutionarily why that would
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: be uh advantageous for anybody.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Nah. Nah, we do have we do have quilting in
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: the chat. Okay, so mom Jean says, there's an event
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: called Victoria Quilts where sixty quilts were made in an
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: afternoon by a troop of volunteers. Yeah, those are people
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: who have done many quilts already. Yes, it's definitely experienced quilters.
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if you want to listen more to more
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: of me talking about quilting and all other things sewing
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: with my mom, who has infected me with this bug,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: you can go over to Ust to sew. It's a
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: podcast that I do. We talk about all things sewing,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: and quilting is definitely coming up a lot lately because
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: I have been introduced to this and now quilting is
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: my life. Like I don't want to do anything. I'm
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: not going to cook, I'm not gonna eat, I'm not
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: going to sleep. I'm definitely not going to podcast or
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: have relationships with people. Absolutely not. I am back into
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: the room to find more things I can cut up
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: and put together.
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: I'm deep into home ownership land. I'm swapping out light
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: fixtures today. I was up on a ladder. We got
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: a well, so we had one of those fluorescent office
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: long lights in our closet which was just awful and
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: wasn't really working that well. So I ripped that out,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: and of course I pulled the anchors behind it were
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: they were jammed up in there, so I had to
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: pull them through the drywall, so I kind of have
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: to patch up the drywall everything. But never bought this
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: pretty light that she decided she wanted inside the bedroom.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: So now I'm replacing the bedroom light and then bedroom
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: light's going in the closet right, So it's a multi
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: step process. So I got about halfway through that today
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: before I realized I was running late for the podcast
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: and I had to run. But yeah, similar sort of like, yeah,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: I like that sort of You know, this is my
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: first time owning a house. Right, We've been in here
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: for nine months ish, and there's a few little things
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: I've had to fix. Right, there's a clog in the
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: drain pipe for my water my AC condenser, and that
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: involved cutting PVC and finding replaced some pieces and glowing
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: it back together. And then there was you know, light
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: fixtures to change out and locks failing to fix and
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: little things like that. But I find those not frustrating
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 2: but fun to fix. Right, I'm still enjoying that part
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: of like the homeowners. I think a lot of people
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: really struggle for their first year in homeownership, either because
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: they end up in house that's too expensive, right, don't
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: realize all the unforeseen costs. But unfortunately, we ended up
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 2: in house that that's in pretty good shape and I
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: only have to fix little minor things and tweak little things,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: and so far I've been enjoying all of those little
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: things to adjust. And so yeah, that's sort of been
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: my little obsession lately. Is like the things that I
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: am able to sort of control in my environment for
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: the first time.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: In my life, right right, Yeah.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: I've been a renter the rest of my life, and
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: now it's like, oh, that thing's broken, I can fix it,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: and I can make it better and I can make
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: it fit my preference.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah. So I'm enjoying that having agency over the
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: environment you live in.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm still getting used to it, Like there's
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: still I know, my brain has been renting for such
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: a long time. You know, it's like I want to paint,
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: but I think it's become very difficult me for me
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: to even decide on the color, right because it's just like,
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: oh wow, yeah, I can control the color, but there's
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: so many options. So I'm building up to it slowly,
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: which is fixing things as they break and replacing things.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: And I've read a few things that say, you know,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: it takes a year or two or three to really
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: understand what you want in a space when you first
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: move in, You're not necessarily going to be able to
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: move in and do a bunch of renovations right up
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: front that are going to be worthwhile.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was really glad with our house that we
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: moved in, it was like, well, there's no woodstove, so
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: we know what our first project is. And then that
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: led us to learning that our roof was in much
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: worse shape than we thought it was, So like our
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: first two years, we didn't even have to make a choice.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: We just had a big project that like shaped all
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: of the other like ancillary projects around it. So that
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: got us through that kind of like we didn't get
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: stuck because it was like no, no, no, this is
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: this is where all the brain power's going. All the money.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because there's a limit, there's how many things
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: you can do it once where you're like, Okay, I
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: want to do this, but I'm trying to stay within
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: the budget and I'm trying to spend too much money
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: and just like replace all the fixtures of my house
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 2: at once, and you know there is no need to
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: do that when they're all working.
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: Right right after we're done with the recording today, I'm
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: going to be helping mister homeowner replace all the breakers
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: in our house.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's a big project.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The power out here when it goes off, sometimes
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: it goes off very messily, like on off, on off,
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: and it like we've had like ninety second long like
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: brownout cycles before it finally finishes turning off. So we've
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: had a few weird electrical things where we're like, you
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: know what, let's just replace all the breakers. Let's just
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: it seems like one of them might be faulty, so
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: let's just replace all of them and then hopefully we
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: don't have to go to the bigger box or the
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: bigger box. Hopefully just the regular house breakers will fix
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: the problem.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: But A, so you're not replacing your box at all,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: just every breaker inside of it.
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, So.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: At least you can turn off the switch off the
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: main breaker. Yeah, yeah, the main again, and so you're
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: not Yeah, so still, that's that's definitely one of those
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: things that you want to be careful with, right, That's
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: that's a very Yeah, that's one of the more dangerous
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: things you can do as a homeowner is fuck with
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: your breaker box.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: It's wild to me the shit that you're allowed to
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: do with your electrical as a homeowner. Yeah, Like it
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: amazes me the stuff that the homeowner is expected to do.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: Like we're like, yeah, you can get an electrician if
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: you want, and it's like, really you're just gonna let
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: me make that call. It seems a little dangerous, but okay.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Fortunately I've gotten many engineering and construction minded
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: people factory into how Brandon is approaching it, so we'll
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: be all right. But yeah, that's that's after recording today,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna help him turn off the house and fix
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: all of the breakers.
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing I'm discovering in my house is all
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: the wire connections are made with nuts and no tape,
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, we're going to tape those up. Every
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: time we open one of those, We're taping it up again.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: Homeowners and the electrical shenanigans that the state has no
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: problem letting people get up to. So, yeah, we are adults. Yeah,
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: are we ready to talk about books we read as children?
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:55:05
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• 1:55:08
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• 1:55:12
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• 1:55:15
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• 1:55:18
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