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Strictly Come Hamster - Season Nine (featuring Jo Short & Si Hart) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  I felt like that once when I was young.
• 0:02
  It was the blackest day of my life.
• 0:06
  Why? Oh, well, that's another story.
• 0:08
  I'll tell you about it one day. The point is, that day was not
• 0:12
  only my blackest, it was also my best.
• 0:14
  What? Do you mean?
• 0:17
  Well, when I was a little boy, we used to live in a house that
• 0:20
  was perched halfway up the top of a mountain, and behind our
• 0:24
  house they sat under a tree. An old man, a hermit, a monk.
• 0:30
  He lived under this tree for half his lifetime, so they said,
• 0:32
  and he learned the secret of life.
• 0:36
  Sir, when my black day came, I went and asked him to help me.
• 0:39
  He. Told you the secret and what
• 0:41
  was? It well, I'm coming to that
• 0:43
  chair in my own time. I'll never forget what it was
• 0:48
  like up there, all bleak and cold.
• 0:51
  It was a few bare rocks with some weeds sprouting from them,
• 0:57
  pathetic little patches of sludgy snow.
• 0:59
  This was just grey, grey, grey, grey.
• 1:06
  Well, the tree the old man sat under that was ancient and
• 1:08
  twisted, and the old man himself was he was as brittle and dry as
• 1:11
  a leaf in the autumn. What did he say?
• 1:14
  Nothing, not a word. He just sat there silently,
• 1:19
  expressionless, and he listened whilst I poured out my troubles
• 1:22
  to it. It was too unhappy even for
• 1:25
  tears. I remember when I'd finished, he
• 1:29
  lifted a skeletal hand and he pointed.
• 1:32
  Do you know what he pointed at? A flower, one of those little
• 1:37
  weeds. Just like a Daisy it was.
• 1:43
  I looked it for a moment and suddenly I saw it through his
• 1:46
  eyes. It was simply glowing with life,
• 1:51
  like a perfectly cut jewel. The colours.
• 1:55
  The colours were deeper and richer than anything you can
• 1:57
  possibly imagine. That was the daisiest Daisy I'd
• 2:02
  ever seen that. Was the secret of life a Daisy?
• 2:07
  Honestly, Doctor. Yes, I laughed too when I first
• 2:10
  heard it. So later I got up and I ran down
• 2:15
  that mountain and I found that the rocks weren't grey at all.
• 2:20
  They were red, brown, purple and gold.
• 2:26
  Those pathetic little patches of sludgy snow.
• 2:30
  They were shining white, shining white in the sunlight.
• 2:36
  You still frightened Joe? No.
• 2:38
  Not as much as I was. That's.
• 2:41
  Good. I don't see any red carpet.
• 3:18
  To you, it looks like the tradesman's entrance.
• 3:23
  Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster, the Doctor Who
• 3:28
  commentary podcast that is my best version of John Perry.
• 3:33
  We're not doing commentaries though.
• 3:35
  Oh. Fuck no.
• 3:39
  No, no, sorry. Thank you.
• 3:43
  So. Much the Worzel Gummage
• 3:45
  Commentary Podcast. Whereabouts.
• 3:49
  Cut the boards right off the weeks number of weeks Joe has
• 3:52
  got the right title there's. So many now I can't keep track.
• 3:59
  Of them all. 321 I don't see any red carpet, do you?
• 4:05
  It looks like the tradesman's entrance.
• 4:08
  Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster, the Doctor Who
• 4:14
  Championship podcast. Oh my.
• 4:17
  God, we might say, well, well, well.
• 4:20
  I've never gone back this far in time before.
• 4:23
  Grief. We are here today to talk about
• 4:27
  Series 9 of season. Season God season.
• 4:31
  Start my life again please. Season 9 this is like taped 15
• 4:36
  of Doctor Who rolled police. They have before I make any more
• 4:40
  mistakes. God, Joe, you're, you're not,
• 4:42
  you're not firing on all cylinders tonight, love.
• 4:44
  Come on, get with, get with the program.
• 4:46
  I've got a cylinder up there. Hang on.
• 4:47
  Right, there we go. I'll be better now.
• 4:49
  Maybe. That's what was yeah.
• 4:51
  Yeah. Anyway, moving swiftly on, yes
• 4:54
  we are in season 9. We're mid Perkway tonight.
• 4:58
  So after the gritty realism we had in Season 7 and the slightly
• 5:02
  more comic book antics of Season 8, what are we going to get this
• 5:06
  time round? Well, surprisingly, we're
• 5:09
  getting something that's quite heavily influenced by the real
• 5:12
  world. So we open with Day of the
• 5:14
  Daleks and it's International Peace Conference.
• 5:16
  And this comes to the time when news is full of the peace
• 5:19
  conference between America and Vietnam that went on for five
• 5:22
  years. Then we go to Paladon see it
• 5:24
  planning to join the Galactic Federation just as the UK is
• 5:28
  signing the European Communities Act, which sounds like a lot of
• 5:31
  fun ahead of us joining the EEC. Then the Sea Devils comes to a
• 5:35
  time when the Soviet Navy is looking to for a new bases for
• 5:39
  its nuclear Subs and the US is arming its submarines with
• 5:42
  nuclear weaponry. The Mutants is transmitting a
• 5:45
  time of anti apartheid demonstrations and then the Thai
• 5:49
  Monster, The real World and the Thai Monster.
• 5:53
  I'm struggling on this one. The only thing I could come up
• 5:55
  with was in five years time, the man from Atlantis is on tally.
• 5:59
  But apart from that, that's probably the best I could come
• 6:01
  up with. So clearly there are some real
• 6:05
  life influences on some of these stories that we're going to be
• 6:07
  discussing tonight. So let's get into it.
• 6:10
  And to help sort out whether our glass of good humoured wine is a
• 6:13
  touch sardonic or just a little cynical.
• 6:16
  And also, of course, the most important thing to help us
• 6:19
  differentiate our plinge from our thrust skin, because we all
• 6:24
  know they're the same thing, right?
• 6:25
  We're joined by two special guests.
• 6:27
  Both are returnees to the Strictly dance floor.
• 6:31
  One is fandom's nicest man, although he's promised us to
• 6:34
  bring out his evil side tonight. In other words, have got the
• 6:39
  war, Simon. Coming to.
• 6:41
  Coming to a big finished box set near you shortly and I don't
• 6:45
  want to. I don't want to tease what's
• 6:46
  coming up. But we've also got the time
• 6:48
  Monster's biggest fan. And no, it's not Queen Galileo's
• 6:52
  pussy between us. We've got some shocked looks.
• 6:57
  Then between us, we're going to decide which story is going to
• 7:00
  be lifting the cursion glitter ball and which will just be left
• 7:03
  naked in a room for everybody to laugh at.
• 7:05
  So let's welcome tonight's guests.
• 7:08
  War Simon, would you like to introduce yourself?
• 7:10
  Well, hello, it's lovely to be back on Strictly.
• 7:13
  It's me. I'm Si Hart.
• 7:15
  You might Remember Me from every other episode of our Hamstick
• 7:19
  dump online. Basically The Library of
• 7:22
  Impossible Things and Maximum Power and Trap 1:00 and
• 7:25
  basically I'll haul myself out to any old podcast.
• 7:28
  Do you know how many of these you've done now?
• 7:30
  Do you know I'm? Sure, you've told me, and I keep
• 7:34
  forgetting. About 130 episodes now.
• 7:38
  This might be the 131st. Well, here we go.
• 7:42
  I've got to keep getting better. So, you know, maybe this will be
• 7:45
  the one that destroys my reputation face.
• 7:48
  About time you turned evil. Really.
• 7:50
  Yeah. So that was me trying to do the
• 8:00
  master music and failings. And welcome back as well to
• 8:05
  lovely the lovely official trademark, the lovely Joe Short.
• 8:11
  Hello everybody, I'm Jove short. I am officially lovely.
• 8:18
  I've not I'm not as terrific, shall I say, as Simon.
• 8:22
  It's my third, third hamster, of course, but I am still reeling
• 8:28
  of the law on my levels that the fact that the one that I had
• 8:31
  championed before sleep no more one.
• 8:35
  I still don't know how. I still don't know how and I
• 8:38
  don't know why. And I didn't pay anybody any
• 8:41
  money whatsoever because I haven't got any.
• 8:43
  But I you know, so you know, I can't, you know?
• 8:47
  Rod is still convinced that was a fix, you know, but so it
• 8:51
  wasn't. I really liked it.
• 8:54
  I. Know, I know.
• 8:55
  I convinced you. Do you remember?
• 8:57
  I convinced you. And you know Joe?
• 8:58
  I've got to tell you that your first strictly come hamster is
• 9:03
  currently sitting as the sixth most episode of hamster a blood
• 9:07
  pen knife listen to ever. OK, so you may not turn up a
• 9:11
  lot, but when you do. You're making.
• 9:14
  Oh, no, That was that. That was Stephen.
• 9:16
  That was Stephen B It's nothing to do with me.
• 9:18
  I just. Remember, what's it a massacre
• 9:20
  with doilies for the mark of the Ronnie.
• 9:22
  And it comes as no surprise to me at all.
• 9:26
  You know, you're slightly less of a whore than Sigh, if I'm
• 9:29
  honest to. Be honest, Nobody.
• 9:32
  Nobody is as prolific as Sigh in more ways than one.
• 9:35
  It sounds like a backhanded compliment, but it was from the
• 9:37
  heart. I listened to a podcast
• 9:40
  yesterday when you said he slept with most of fandoms.
• 9:44
  I mean, you get to know him a bit better, you might learn some
• 9:47
  of the stories all. Right.
• 9:48
  It's always the quiet. It's always the quiet.
• 9:50
  Well, it's always the librarians, Joe, you know that.
• 9:52
  People think it's me. I've already set with anyone in
• 9:55
  fandom. Just one I think.
• 9:57
  I think. Just the rest of the.
• 10:00
  Population, not quantity that. That's right, I keep telling
• 10:04
  myself that. Can I just check what podcast
• 10:06
  we're on, by the way? Yeah, I've lost track.
• 10:10
  Should I bring us back to Season 9 of Doctor?
• 10:13
  Who? I'll say one thing though,
• 10:14
  Roger, you know. Go for a joke.
• 10:16
  You know, you you, you might be pompous and vain to the point of
• 10:20
  arrogance. You're basically a decent man as
• 10:23
  a podcast host. Please continue.
• 10:25
  Thank you very much. That's not the last.
• 10:27
  Comparison I'm going to make between you as the original
• 10:29
  styles today. All right.
• 10:31
  Thank you very much. So what do we think of the
• 10:34
  season overall? Without giving any spoilers away
• 10:36
  for the stories, Psych is your overall feelings.
• 10:40
  Well, you know, sometimes I sit and think, what seasons of
• 10:45
  Doctor Who don't I like? And it's both the nines.
• 10:50
  Both the nines come out as possibly my least favorite of
• 10:55
  old series and new series. And there is nothing basically
• 10:59
  wrong with this season of Doctor Who.
• 11:03
  But yeah, I'm. I'm going to leave it at that
• 11:07
  for the moment because. Yeah.
• 11:09
  It's your lowest rated of all the classic series.
• 11:12
  Yeah, I would rather watch as a whole.
• 11:16
  I would rather watch any other season of Doctor Who than this
• 11:19
  one. Wow, when it comes to serious
• 11:22
  night, well, that's just understandable.
• 11:23
  Don't start. On that.
• 11:25
  Don't start on that. Don't.
• 11:26
  Start. Don't.
• 11:27
  Start Let's move swiftly over to Joe Joe Season 9.
• 11:32
  Season 9 Well, poetry is my classic doctor.
• 11:36
  He's the one I came in with because despite these
• 11:39
  devastatingly youthful looks, I was alive as I was talking to
• 11:45
  Rod last week. Lomi Capaldi.
• 11:48
  It's just something about grumpy or grey haired men I love so.
• 11:52
  You won't be disappointed this year then.
• 11:54
  I know I wasn't disappointed this year.
• 11:56
  So I've got very, very vague memories of this.
• 12:00
  I mean, I mean, I was, what were you?
• 12:02
  Was this 72? I mean, I was 3.
• 12:04
  So I have very, I do. I've got an image of the Sea
• 12:07
  Devils, but then the next two series are the ones where I've
• 12:12
  I've got big memories. But I like Simon.
• 12:16
  I love both seasons. This is going.
• 12:18
  To be, but then. Again, I love I love poetry.
• 12:24
  I don't there's there's like 2 poetries I don't like out of
• 12:28
  like the what was it 25? Shame and shame.
• 12:32
  No, not yet. It's in case.
• 12:33
  It might be it might I might be naming.
• 12:35
  Shaming but. But there's I just to me, I
• 12:40
  love, you know, I know that he's just my he's my doc.
• 12:42
  You know what they say, you know, your first doctor, you
• 12:45
  always have this love for me. And you know, but and I love the
• 12:48
  UNIT years. I adore the UNIT years.
• 12:50
  They're just like everything and they just mean so much to me the
• 12:55
  whole series. So, you know, I can see a
• 12:59
  serious question. Yes.
• 13:02
  Alan, you know, please, now we've had a bit of levity in the
• 13:05
  episode, but can we please be serious for this question?
• 13:07
  Because it's, Yeah, my ultimate free some in Doctor Who would be
• 13:13
  Ben and Jamie. So is your ultimate free some in
• 13:16
  Doctor Who, the 3rd and 12th Doctors respectively.
• 13:22
  I'm a bigger deal in and yeah. Oh.
• 13:25
  Wow. She's greedy.
• 13:27
  Oh my. Dear life rounds rapid.
• 13:31
  Oh boy. You can get the.
• 13:35
  If you can get the brigade leader in as well, you know it's
• 13:38
  also. This is just going to become the
• 13:40
  time monster this episode. Joe Season 9.
• 13:46
  This is going to get very confusing.
• 13:47
  You know, we're two Joes on the call.
• 13:50
  You could just call me like annoying Joe or Prat or
• 13:53
  something like that. OK, Well, midpoint Pertwee, mid
• 13:57
  quality season, I think everything's sort of chugging
• 14:01
  away quite pleasantly in this season on the whole, without
• 14:05
  much that's really dazzling or bewitching.
• 14:09
  I do think this is where Pertwee and Manning develop their like
• 14:14
  their best chemistry. And it's some of these stories
• 14:16
  that I think they're just, they are dazzling together.
• 14:19
  And there's some really big ideas at the heart of the
• 14:21
  scripts as well. You know, like you said, not
• 14:23
  just the politics, but just the sci-fi ideas are quite big too.
• 14:27
  And the villains are nicely history ball too.
• 14:30
  But it has this weird sort of grainy, brownie, greeny
• 14:35
  aesthetic, which means it's a really fucking ugly season to
• 14:38
  look at that. Was the 70s Show that was?
• 14:42
  The 70s, we've done season. Yeah, that was the 70s.
• 14:45
  We've done season 10, you know, they're fabulous.
• 14:49
  Metapelia's free with all the blue.
• 14:51
  Oh, wonderful. So I, and it's one of those, and
• 14:55
  this is me not keeping my powder dry.
• 14:57
  It's one of those odd seasons where I think the quality bleeds
• 15:02
  away the more the season progresses.
• 15:06
  Well, I'm with the lovely Joe. I'm not the other Joe.
• 15:11
  Prat, Joe. Prat Joe, I love this season.
• 15:14
  So yeah, I I was here for this Joe.
• 15:16
  I was 5 going on 6 into this season.
• 15:19
  I fucking love this. This is great stuff.
• 15:22
  Pertway is just so in command and so charming and so
• 15:27
  charismatic. Joe is Oh my God, three Joes.
• 15:31
  We've got Joe 4 Joe shorts, Joe Grant.
• 15:34
  Oh my God. It's the three Joes.
• 15:36
  Three Joes, my head is going to explode.
• 15:40
  Joe Grant is just Yeah, Joe. Oh God, this is going to get
• 15:45
  confusing. Prat, Joe.
• 15:46
  Call her the Dizzy Joe. Let's.
• 15:48
  Call her Dizzy Joe, Lovely Joe, Dizzy Joe and Prat Joe.
• 15:51
  That's quite. Easy to remember.
• 15:54
  Dizzy Joe is just charming as hell in this and she really, I
• 15:58
  like you say prat Joe, she's really found her feet by now.
• 16:02
  I absolutely adore this. And we'll, we'll come to, we'll
• 16:05
  come to some memories from this season because this season for
• 16:08
  me is full of those kind of early childhood memories that
• 16:11
  absolutely grabbed me and never let go so.
• 16:15
  Can I add one extra thing? Go for it.
• 16:17
  Just that I really admire the experimental nature of the music
• 16:23
  in this season. I'm really pleased I never did
• 16:26
  it again because the music is absolutely hideous for most of
• 16:30
  the season. One story in particular, maybe?
• 16:33
  No, a couple, not just one. I think even Dudley has an off
• 16:37
  day. This it this year.
• 16:39
  Maybe he's just copying Malcolm Clark.
• 16:42
  Why would? Why indeed should we go into our
• 16:45
  listeners overall comments? Si and the lovely Joe are going
• 16:49
  to read these, remember? Folks, you know, should you wish
• 16:51
  to slag off the commentees as you're reading them out, Please.
• 16:55
  People seem to like this sort of thing.
• 16:58
  They do, don't they? It's very odd.
• 17:00
  If you want to do them in a Pertwee voice, please feel free
• 17:02
  to go for it. OK, Shall we start with?
• 17:06
  You. Oh, well, start with me.
• 17:07
  OK, Well, I have a late entry here and it's come in the Time
• 17:12
  Lords. I'm glitter ball and it's from
• 17:15
  Fraser Gregory. What the hell?
• 17:18
  Get him. He's not on this podcast.
• 17:20
  Get him. No, there's.
• 17:24
  There's no such thing as a poor season of Let's and Dicks made
• 17:27
  Doctor Who. That this is maybe the weakest
• 17:30
  shows you just how a higher how high a bar they set.
• 17:35
  Highbrow, sophisticated stories that still entertain the kids.
• 17:38
  This is where Pertwee and Manning really finds their feet
• 17:43
  and we are spoilt with some superb riches as a result.
• 17:47
  You see, I'd have attitude that. We'll, we'll get you Fraser
• 17:50
  Gregory. Don't you, I dare you, try and
• 17:53
  sneak onto our podcast, Lovely Joe.
• 17:59
  OK DC doing tweets, what should that be?
• 18:04
  Should be DC doing exes I suppose.
• 18:06
  Wouldn't mind. There's no story I dislike.
• 18:10
  Enjoy it all the way through. You can gripe about aspects of
• 18:13
  each story, but they're just minor things in a series that
• 18:16
  was in its stride. Absolutely.
• 18:19
  Lots of Ray says not vintage Pertway, that's for sure.
• 18:23
  But Pertway didn't have a bad season or even a mediocre 1.
• 18:27
  There are three. Obvious standouts and two that
• 18:29
  are OK. Plus, who doesn't want to see
• 18:31
  the doctor? Drinking wine and eating
• 18:33
  Gorgonzola cheese. I love that vintage stuff.
• 18:38
  Gorgonzola cheese. No, it's horrible, but man, he's
• 18:42
  such a prick, isn't it? He's a lovable prick.
• 18:46
  Man, what a fine seller. Sir Reginald has a conservative
• 18:50
  prick as well. The Third Doctor.
• 18:54
  Right, the lovely Dave Rennie says a decent season with three
• 18:59
  unit stories into richly detailed alien worlds courtesy
• 19:03
  of Time Lord Missions. Joe is cemented as the perfect
• 19:06
  fit for per tweet and softens him.
• 19:09
  Yep, I agree with. That Paul.
• 19:11
  Yeah, Paul Quinn says. The pervy era running as a well
• 19:16
  oiled machine. Obviously not as good as the
• 19:19
  near perfect season 7, but better than 8.
• 19:22
  And it still takes the Brigadier seriously.
• 19:24
  Hang on. Hasn't you?
• 19:26
  The time Monster OK, there's a confidence to this season, a
• 19:32
  good range of stories and locations.
• 19:34
  Can I just check by the way, was that a Paul Quinn quote that
• 19:37
  didn't have a swear word in it? It was Oh my God.
• 19:40
  What's going on? The medication's wearing off,
• 19:44
  that's why. Oh, it's.
• 19:46
  Kicked. In Oh, it's kicked in, Yeah.
• 19:49
  Phil Newman, Pig Pertwee before it all gets a bit too cosy.
• 19:54
  The season I remember watching from start to finish.
• 19:57
  The atmospheric original, some classic monsters.
• 20:00
  Del Colado at the height of his powers in the Sea Devils.
• 20:03
  Probably my all time favorite. So we know where I feel this
• 20:07
  season. Best all the Magnificent says.
• 20:11
  Love this. It contains one of my least
• 20:13
  favorite Pertwees in the mutants, but even that's
• 20:16
  bearable. The Thai monster deserves more
• 20:18
  love. Day cursing Sea devils are
• 20:22
  sublime. You know, I hear that he took
• 20:24
  some time out from dishing out a lot of embolisms on Jaconda to
• 20:28
  write that tweet. I was so happy rewatching series
• 20:31
  9. You know, a lot of those
• 20:32
  Jacondas survived the day. It's all those eggs.
• 20:37
  Slucky eggs. Dylan Reece, The poetry erase
• 20:43
  one I struggle with. It often leaves me cold and I
• 20:48
  just don't get the hype. Maybe it's overexposure in the
• 20:51
  early BHS releases or that every older fans told me a great
• 20:55
  authority how great it was when I was a kid.
• 20:58
  Or you should have listened to them more, Dylan, because they
• 21:02
  talk it to save the truth. We've got a, we've got a quote
• 21:05
  from Dylan Rees coming up in the podcast, which you might your
• 21:08
  head might explode during. Just a bit of a tease for later.
• 21:11
  It's absolute bollocks, basically.
• 21:13
  OK. Just make sure there's no
• 21:15
  children looking through that window when your head blows up,
• 21:17
  all right? We don't want to scar on for
• 21:19
  life. It's all right, it's not half
• 21:21
  term anymore so there's no children down so.
• 21:23
  Little bastards. Oh, sorry.
• 21:26
  The wonderful John Arnold says they're visibly moving away from
• 21:29
  the inherited unit format here, but not quite worked out what to
• 21:33
  replace it with. Never feels quite as coherent as
• 21:36
  the seasons either side of it, but Katie and John have the
• 21:39
  charm to make it all work. Oh, Katie.
• 21:43
  Casey with an IE he's put there. Mark Harrison.
• 21:49
  I love the way the Doctor and Joe's relationship grows here.
• 21:52
  He goes from stealing food from her and eating it in front of
• 21:54
  her in Sea Devils to letting her have a marmalade sandwich he
• 21:57
  doesn't want in Thai Monster. That's character development.
• 22:00
  Don't let it be said in classic. Oh, no one develops, all right.
• 22:05
  Perfect timing. My parcel just arrived.
• 22:06
  That was smooth. So that.
• 22:10
  Was smooth that. Was James as well that was.
• 22:14
  So there we go, James Lark says a really interesting season,
• 22:19
  exemplified by the variety in the music.
• 22:22
  Dudley Simpson is still experimenting, so delivers some
• 22:25
  of his most diverse work. Then you have Tristram Carey's
• 22:28
  visionary atmospherics. And while Malcolm Clarke clearly
• 22:32
  hasn't set out to write background music, The Sea Devils
• 22:35
  has one of the most distinctive, unsettling scores in the show's
• 22:38
  history. It's a shame that who will never
• 22:41
  sound this fascinatingly eclectic again.
• 22:44
  I mean, there's a difference rather between distinctive and
• 22:48
  sort of ear bleeding music, yes. The lovely Mark got it, though I
• 22:54
  don't think I think he's lovely after this.
• 22:58
  Feels oddly flat and lacking in energy.
• 23:00
  Lots of interesting ideas and bags of potential in every
• 23:03
  story, but I've undermined by the quality of the direction and
• 23:07
  dodgy casting choices. Middling year, not as good as
• 23:11
  the seasons either side of it. Oddly flat and lacking in
• 23:15
  energy. Bit like after going to a utopia
• 23:17
  convention in it. Or so he tells me.
• 23:23
  Eric White says a very mixed bag.
• 23:26
  I really like the mutants, though it's not my favorite.
• 23:29
  Daleks and Sea Devils are great stories.
• 23:31
  Curse has a lot going for it. Time Monster needed a lot of
• 23:36
  work. Thanks to the emphasis there,
• 23:38
  sorry. And now for everybody has to
• 23:44
  have a nemesis on this podcast, don't you?
• 23:46
  This one. Is.
• 23:48
  Mine. You've got Michael, I've got
• 23:51
  Daniel and I, but we turned down the pomposity and arrogance
• 23:56
  while Katie's allowed to grow up show up except for the time
• 24:00
  monster, which is reduced to the cliche dumb companion.
• 24:04
  Oh. Dear.
• 24:05
  I think. Rod's nemesis is Fraser.
• 24:08
  You know who's your nemesis? Oh, I don't know if I have a
• 24:14
  nemesis. I'm not going to.
• 24:17
  I'm not going to say it. I'm just saying this Silver
• 24:23
  Nemesis quick move on. Oh yes and finally Matthew
• 24:27
  Hewitt who says one of my favourites and no one will ever
• 24:31
  convince me that The Mutants isn't hugely underrated.
• 24:34
  The time monster is the only weak link, and even that has
• 24:37
  many good moments despite episode 4.
• 24:41
  He's really putting the emphasis on those.
• 24:44
  I think his powder is a little less dry than it was.
• 24:46
  You know. I think out of fairness, we
• 24:50
  ought to start with the lovely Joe Short.
• 24:53
  Absolutely. I've got a feeling I know where
• 24:56
  she might go with her first story.
• 24:58
  But. You know, let's just see, she
• 25:01
  might surprise us all. So let's discuss the Time
• 25:04
  Monster with Joe Short. She looks like she's about to
• 25:08
  send off her military to war. Did you see her face then?
• 25:11
  I did. I was getting very scared.
• 25:14
  Did she use the? Am I?
• 25:15
  Am I forced to do? The time of.
• 25:16
  Course you're not. Pick whatever.
• 25:17
  You want choose whatever you like that we told.
• 25:20
  About right? Heck, whatever you want.
• 25:24
  OK, I'm going to go for Day of the Daleks.
• 25:27
  Oh. I know I showed you boys, isn't
• 25:30
  it? It's because she wants to keep
• 25:33
  the vote for time on style. Exactly not tactical.
• 25:37
  Tactical. I'm with you, Joe.
• 25:39
  We. Have the Daleks, We haven't had
• 25:41
  the Daleks since somewhere in the trouting era that I can't
• 25:45
  remember. Top of my head probably.
• 25:47
  Is it evil of the Daleks? It's OK evil.
• 25:50
  You know, Terry Nations been off to America trying to start your
• 25:53
  series. Come back thinking oh God, that
• 25:56
  failed hurt we we've had couple of Susan's Let's bring the
• 26:00
  Daleks back. Everybody loves the Daleks.
• 26:04
  Darks are back. Three things about this season
• 26:09
  1. We have the introduction of one
• 26:13
  of the most charming, handsome, witty characters in all of who.
• 26:19
  Yes, I'm talking about Gruntly the Ogron.
• 26:25
  Oh, bruntly, yes. I love Connie.
• 26:27
  I'm. His 2nd.
• 26:29
  I'm his second favorite Joe, so he loves me very much.
• 26:32
  I like the oak ones because they're daft and they're these
• 26:35
  big monsters. And also, you know, thankfully
• 26:39
  we've gone a bit further forward in the fact that we don't have
• 26:42
  the rather large non speaking black men is the heavy edge
• 26:47
  progress. So another thing about the other
• 26:51
  doctors is there's lots of women in it, which is quite unusual
• 26:55
  for this time this season is, you know, sort of like no one on
• 27:00
  how Pelodon survives because there's like one woman there.
• 27:03
  So God knows how. I don't even want to think
• 27:05
  about. You can tell them all.
• 27:06
  You know, there's a bit of inbreeding because of their
• 27:08
  hair. So, you know, you've got the
• 27:10
  leader of the gorillas, you've got Joe, you've got those unit
• 27:13
  ladies and they're fabulous hairdos.
• 27:16
  You know, they're not as good as Corporal Bell, but you know,
• 27:18
  they're in the background doing all their stuff.
• 27:21
  It's a very interesting twist on the whole time shop.
• 27:24
  You know, a lot of people have said I'm not saying anything new
• 27:29
  now time travel show. It's very rare they use time
• 27:33
  travel. You know, maybe in, you know,
• 27:35
  the more later series it is, but it's very interesting from that.
• 27:39
  Would you go back and kill baby Hitler if you thought, you know,
• 27:42
  this is this is like the comeback, you know, and then
• 27:46
  it's all sort of, you know, it's cause and effect.
• 27:49
  It's the old, you know, you come back to kill someone, you kill
• 27:53
  them, these causes while you've gone in, you know, it's all my
• 27:56
  head and it's very interested about that.
• 28:01
  And it's got some excellent characters.
• 28:03
  I love Aubrey Woods in it. He's he's brilliant.
• 28:06
  It's not as good as a you know, he's very similar to the
• 28:09
  character he plays in Blake 7 and Gambit.
• 28:12
  You know, there's that very extreme.
• 28:14
  You know, the makeup is brilliant.
• 28:17
  Yeah, sorry. You know, the whole the whole
• 28:19
  thing that, you know, he's of course, you know, he's basically
• 28:22
  the human Quisling. He sort of, you know, betrayed
• 28:25
  his people to like, get a super happy life in with the Daleks
• 28:31
  and everything. But I wouldn't have been this,
• 28:36
  no. I knew there was a buck.
• 28:40
  I know. She's getting better than Rod at
• 28:43
  doing this now. I know I listen to.
• 28:45
  I listened to Rod. Yesterday.
• 28:47
  Some tips from him, haven't you? I had a feeling.
• 28:50
  She was doing that. Hello.
• 28:54
  It's not his fault. There's one reason one also, I
• 28:58
  think Yates is complete thick in this series and he put me off
• 29:01
  him forever. I think, you know, knitting
• 29:03
  Sergeant Benson sandwiches. It was the this unfortunately,
• 29:11
  and it's not the story's fault, but it's the it's the sort of
• 29:14
  touchstone of it. This was when they suddenly
• 29:17
  decided, why don't we sush up the special effects?
• 29:23
  You know, we stick some special effects in, add some extra
• 29:26
  scenes. I have no problem that what you
• 29:30
  want. But I think it's, you know, it's
• 29:32
  a sort of slippery slope. You know, it's, you know, it's
• 29:36
  the sort of, I can remember when the colourisation first came up,
• 29:41
  it was like they want to colourise its wonderful life and
• 29:44
  everyone was going well. That's not because it's a thing.
• 29:47
  If that appeals to people, I have no trouble with it.
• 29:50
  To me, it just gels tremendously.
• 29:53
  You see, like how it was done in the 70s and you have like the
• 29:56
  90s of it or the 20s. Does it make to me it's just
• 29:58
  this, you know, just and I can understand, you know, it's not
• 30:03
  it's not aimed at me. It's not, you know, it's the you
• 30:05
  know, I can understand you want to juicy up and but it's the
• 30:09
  idea, you know, sort of been proven it.
• 30:11
  And I think unfortunately they have the Daleks was the first
• 30:13
  one that did that. And I think for better or worse,
• 30:18
  But the real reason I do this is I don't think it's a good Dalek
• 30:22
  story. I don't think I think it'd be
• 30:24
  better if the Daleks weren't in it.
• 30:28
  I think it's a more also, it's a bit of a repeat.
• 30:30
  It's a sort of busy, you know, it's like we've had this.
• 30:32
  The Daleks come, they take over Earth, and it turns out to be.
• 30:35
  Bloody miserable for the human beings.
• 30:38
  We saw that in Dalek inflation of US.
• 30:41
  I'm not saying you can't repeat it because that's the Daleks.
• 30:44
  Do they turn up and make everybody miserable?
• 30:46
  That's sort of, you know, that's it.
• 30:49
  You know, that's your unique selling point.
• 30:51
  But I think it would have been a lot more interesting if it would
• 30:56
  be the humans, you know, a group of humans who'd like, I think
• 31:02
  you could just been the humans doing this to their own people.
• 31:05
  They'd gone out of space. It found the ogrems.
• 31:07
  They'd bought them back as the heavies.
• 31:10
  I just don't think it's a good Dalek story, unlike the other
• 31:13
  ones. I just think they're sort of
• 31:14
  like shoehormed in. I don't know how much of it was
• 31:17
  it, did they say what a Dalek story or they had the story and
• 31:21
  they said. Literally, they wanted to open
• 31:24
  the season with a bang. They wanted the Daleks because
• 31:27
  people would watch and they did. The rating?
• 31:30
  Shut up. Yeah, I can.
• 31:32
  I understand that. And I think, you know, there was
• 31:33
  Dalek mainly and good, but I don't like it.
• 31:36
  Just. I don't think it's good Dalek
• 31:38
  story, but that's the main reason I want to be.
• 31:41
  I don't think it's a good dog. I mean, if you took if you took
• 31:44
  the Daleks off of this, I think this would be a more interesting
• 31:47
  story because I think then it would be so, you know, why would
• 31:51
  you? You're not doing it And did you,
• 31:53
  you know, you're not like with the controller, you're not doing
• 31:58
  it under due rest from this superior alien race.
• 32:01
  You're doing it for the power. You know, it might change the
• 32:04
  story completely, but that's really the reason I wouldn't
• 32:08
  have been out. I don't think it's a good Dalek
• 32:10
  story. So this was the lovely Joe Short
• 32:13
  who was saying she loved Season 9.
• 32:15
  I think you should be the lovely Joe Ford from now on on this
• 32:18
  call. Exactly.
• 32:19
  I'm the I'm the evil Joe Short. Should we go to the comments?
• 32:24
  Richard Smith said, a personal favorite.
• 32:26
  Poetry and Manning are on top, Form units are great in the
• 32:28
  first and last episodes, the guerrillas are believable and
• 32:31
  the paradox is a brilliant twist, and the dilemma and
• 32:33
  redemption of the controller are handled sensitively.
• 32:37
  Jim Allenby says a strong start despite the dodgy darling
• 32:40
  voices. Whilst people may spot the
• 32:42
  ending a mile off, it still seems like a nice, neat story.
• 32:46
  And Hollingsworth said, love this and it's time travel
• 32:48
  shenanigans. The Little Dalek Army is
• 32:50
  underwhelming, but it's all they had in 1972.
• 32:53
  They just couldn't be arsed. Spree or two, you know, One was
• 32:56
  enough in Dalek. Where am I complexicated?
• 33:01
  Cookie says. For a time travel show, Doctor
• 33:03
  Who doesn't touch on paradoxes very often.
• 33:06
  It does so beautifully here. I like the twist in terms of
• 33:09
  what actually caused the war. And our UNIT family are settled
• 33:12
  and working well together. David Glaspie perhaps of the
• 33:14
  clumsily directed Dalek story with Earth being conquered by
• 33:17
  three tatty Daleks who frankly sound shit.
• 33:20
  Which is a real shame as the story is a strong one with some
• 33:23
  really good performances. I've really come to like this
• 33:25
  one a lot. James Lark feels not only the
• 33:29
  like definitive Pertwee, but also definitive Doctor Who, even
• 33:33
  though it's treading ground that was oddly unexplored at the
• 33:35
  time. A rare occasion where the
• 33:37
  writing and storytelling is so good that lazy direction almost
• 33:40
  doesn't attract at all. Jason Thompson says shoves the
• 33:43
  Daleks into a story that didn't need them and work superbly.
• 33:47
  The Daleks aren't great, being mostly static, but that Gold 1
• 33:50
  looks bloody gorgeous. Oh here he is, my nemesis
• 33:54
  Michael Storm, a solid star with light timey wimey plot.
• 34:00
  He did that just for you. Daleks are used sparingly and as
• 34:03
  such I know, I know as you give it to me as well see much more
• 34:07
  of a threat. The guest cast are strong
• 34:09
  throughout Keep. Glenn Fitzgerald says who
• 34:12
  doesn't love this? Well, obviously lovely jokes
• 34:14
  Short doesn't love. This I did see.
• 34:16
  I don't love it. I find it doesn't mean I don't
• 34:18
  like it. I can.
• 34:19
  I do like it, but you know. You're playing the game.
• 34:23
  I'm playing the game, guys, playing the game.
• 34:26
  Even if the Dalek voices are a bit NAF, it adds the charm.
• 34:29
  Everything from the cutlery to the costumes stinks of the 70s.
• 34:32
  I love that. Dave Rennie says a favorite and
• 34:37
  in cheating time travel paradox, which is heavily entertaining
• 34:40
  and it's got the guy from the Willy Wonka opening that Oh my
• 34:43
  God, who can make a sunrise, mix it with a dream, sorry, complete
• 34:50
  with Vaseline face. Vaseline face, interesting.
• 34:54
  Andy Parkinson says a fun Dalek story.
• 34:56
  I like the old Schlitz Tell me why Me paradox and the new
• 34:59
  effects definitely improve it. Lovely Joe Short, one of those
• 35:03
  stories you can put on and not think about too much.
• 35:06
  Paul Smye says it's very overrated.
• 35:09
  The time travel plot is interesting, but it doesn't need
• 35:12
  the Daleks whatsoever. Clearly there are budget issues,
• 35:15
  the Daleks trying to invade Earth when there are clearly
• 35:17
  only three of them, and the Dalek voices are the worst ever.
• 35:23
  Give me a beg. Give me a beg.
• 35:26
  Give me an orange Orange. Give me a Michael, he's got his
• 35:33
  own theme song. Big Orange Michael says a story
• 35:36
  strong enough to overcome the production mistakes.
• 35:39
  Classic who delves into time travel in a big way with a story
• 35:43
  that still feels fresh and entertaining.
• 35:45
  Aubrey Woods is superb. The Ogrons are great monsters.
• 35:49
  I don't know who you are, Big Orange Michael, but I really
• 35:51
  love you, Matt Lee Newby says. Best darling story of the era,
• 35:57
  granted, vastly improved in its special edition, but nonetheless
• 36:01
  exhibiting a broadness of vision which nations writing lacked.
• 36:06
  James Hadwin Bennett says, opens up so many questions about the
• 36:08
  nature of changing time and doesn't answer any of them.
• 36:12
  It also raises questions about makeup in the future.
• 36:15
  But how? Or it's Unit versus Daleks and
• 36:18
  VHS nostalgia by the bucket load.
• 36:21
  Keep it you. See all those ladies that sort
• 36:23
  of like hover in their hands over?
• 36:24
  Yeah. So they're all smeared in
• 36:26
  Vaseline, aren't they? Yeah, not in the future.
• 36:29
  Something going on? Yeah.
• 36:31
  They've all just come away from an orchard.
• 36:32
  Quick get to work. We're late, back from our break.
• 36:35
  We should all buy shares in the Vaseline company, you know, put
• 36:40
  your money, put your money into Vaseline guys, no.
• 36:42
  Wait, it's a time for your paradise.
• 36:46
  We've got a peek into the future now.
• 36:47
  If we all start putting Vaseline on our faces, we'll affect the.
• 36:50
  Future happen, Yeah. Oh.
• 36:52
  My God. Which you've had, you've had
• 36:55
  Lube all over your face last time we did this podcast, so you
• 36:57
  know. They, the Daleks didn't smear
• 37:00
  Vaseline all over the future. You did it yourselves.
• 37:04
  Sorry. I'm so sorry, Carl Oliga says.
• 37:08
  Perk was on top form and even if they're not in it much, the
• 37:10
  Daleks are enjoyably horrible. Anthony Carroll says the
• 37:14
  controller is a superb character and I love the unit scenes.
• 37:17
  Nearly there folks people Pete one Dalek is all that's needed
• 37:20
  to destroy everyone, but here we get three with a load of fun
• 37:25
  loving ogrums. The only thing that is wrong is
• 37:27
  that Joe is such a victim throughout her look though
• 37:31
  smoking and. Finally, we come to Mr. Killjoy
• 37:35
  himself. For this episode, it's Luke Sims
• 37:37
  Jenkins, it says. I don't see what all the fuss is
• 37:40
  about. It's near the Daleks are back
• 37:43
  and it's probably their worst outing ever.
• 37:46
  You've. Got to remember he's Tegan's
• 37:47
  biggest fan, all right? That says a lot, doesn't it?
• 37:52
  So sigh, is this the Daleks worst outing ever?
• 37:55
  Well, of course it's not. This is a great story.
• 37:58
  I really like this one. I think for for several reasons.
• 38:03
  I think some of it is kind of nostalgia for my my previous
• 38:11
  long term boyfriend said this was his favorite Doctor Who
• 38:14
  story in the whole world ever. So it was kind of, yeah, kind of
• 38:19
  always coloured by that. And I came to love it because of
• 38:22
  him and his love of the gold Dalek, who looks absolutely
• 38:25
  superb. But even though Pertwee
• 38:29
  absolutely detested this story, he gives one of his very best
• 38:32
  performances in this and his moral outrage is at reaching
• 38:37
  new, new peaks. And I think that moment that you
• 38:41
  you spoof there, Joe, the styles didn't.
• 38:46
  Yeah. Styles didn't create this
• 38:48
  paradox, you did it yourselves. He is furious with them as he's
• 38:51
  worked this out. I really love that and I think
• 38:54
  Pertwee is on if if he's uncomfortable making this,
• 38:59
  they're making uncomfortable more because he's so good.
• 39:03
  I hear he was very relaxed making the time monster, you
• 39:05
  know? Well, yes, but so that's really
• 39:10
  good. And as as Joe touched on, Doctor
• 39:13
  Who hasn't really done time travel paradox story before, and
• 39:18
  it does it really well here. It's simple enough for adults to
• 39:22
  understand, but complicated enough for children to get
• 39:24
  completely so. It's absolutely beautifully
• 39:27
  done. It's really well explained, and
• 39:29
  you can pick it up. You can.
• 39:31
  There's enough clues all the way through the storytelling that
• 39:33
  you can follow it. Take hints, Mr. Moffat, don't
• 39:39
  make it overcomplicated. You've got a simple idea that
• 39:42
  you've got ghosts that are from the future coming back to the
• 39:46
  past to change the change history.
• 39:48
  What a great idea. These aren't ghosts that are
• 39:51
  clanking skeletons or suits of armour or whatever.
• 39:54
  They're gorillas fighting for their lives in a doomed future.
• 39:58
  And what a what a fabulous, clear, brilliant idea.
• 40:02
  And then you've got the Daleks laid over the top, who are in
• 40:05
  charge of the plot and even though they're shoehorned into
• 40:08
  the story. I don't care.
• 40:11
  It's the Daleks. Let's enjoy this.
• 40:13
  We haven't seen them for five years.
• 40:14
  They might get the voices slightly wrong and their
• 40:20
  dialogue takes about 500 years to say each line, but they look
• 40:28
  right. And Paul Bernard is a
• 40:32
  interesting director. I wouldn't say he's a great
• 40:34
  director, but every so often he does something like the end of
• 40:37
  Part 1 where he's into cutting shots quite fast and so it feels
• 40:42
  a bit sort of disorientating and dazzling.
• 40:45
  But the story has wonderful images like the Daleks coming
• 40:48
  out of the railway tunnel. So one by one or the Dalek
• 40:52
  appearing in the in the tunnel at the cliffhanger and Pertwee
• 40:56
  with his Cape looking all heroic, turning around and
• 40:59
  seeing the Dalek. And that's great.
• 41:01
  And and things like that. And that that that crash zoom
• 41:05
  into the gold Dalek when it says RIP pot that you're not
• 41:09
  expecting halfway through the episode because you're expecting
• 41:12
  them to turn up at the very end of the episode.
• 41:15
  This is. Just when it skipped out to make
• 41:16
  the tea, you're like, what's happened?
• 41:18
  What did I miss? Oh my God, it's a.
• 41:19
  Dalek Yeah, you know, and we've got the UNIT regulars, we've got
• 41:26
  the Brigadier is still intelligent and in control of
• 41:30
  everything at this point. Benton and Yates are in their
• 41:33
  element where? But we've got a story that goes
• 41:37
  to a different setting halfway through, and I don't know if
• 41:41
  they're going to repeat that this season with an episode
• 41:43
  directed by Paul Bernard. But all I will say is it's done
• 41:46
  far, far better and less jarringly here.
• 41:50
  So yeah, you know, I I think this is a bit of a minor
• 41:54
  classic. It's not it's not a huge
• 41:56
  favorite. It's not an era best, but it's a
• 41:58
  great start to the season. And I think, yeah, keep it.
• 42:02
  Fabulous Pracho. Well, I'm sort of going to agree
• 42:07
  a lot with you. Sorry and disagree with you
• 42:09
  slightly. OK?
• 42:11
  I think this is a major classic. I think this is a highlight of
• 42:15
  the era. This is sort of top five Hurt We
• 42:19
  for me. I think this is clever.
• 42:22
  I think it is quick at 4 episodes and it has just enough
• 42:26
  plot for 4 episodes, which is a rarest thing in the Pertwee era.
• 42:30
  Just a perfectly formed narrative.
• 42:33
  And the plotting is the first thing I want to talk about.
• 42:35
  And it is that scene, that scene where I can feel the hands of
• 42:39
  Terrence Dicks on this script from Louis Marks going.
• 42:43
  This needs to be delivered to the kids in a way that they
• 42:46
  understand. Basically, the doctor needs to
• 42:48
  look at the screen and explain the plot, but in a very dramatic
• 42:52
  way. And the way it fuses together in
• 42:55
  that scene, because I don't think anybody guesses that twist
• 42:59
  until it comes. And then when it hits, it all
• 43:02
  makes perfect sense. And then it just gets you
• 43:03
  thinking. It gets you thinking about all
• 43:06
  of those different scenarios that could happen if you went
• 43:07
  back in time and change something.
• 43:09
  And then it gets you to thinking, well, hang on.
• 43:11
  If they change, what's going to happen in the past now?
• 43:14
  Will the people we're currently with no longer exist?
• 43:17
  Just really interesting ideas. And this, this whole episode,
• 43:21
  this whole story is plotted to the hill in the way that in the
• 43:26
  middle of the John Perry era, only Terence Dix scripted story
• 43:30
  could be. I think the plotting of this is
• 43:32
  superb. My second reason is Anat, who I
• 43:36
  just adore as a character, and Anna Barry comes into Doctor Who
• 43:42
  and she's not doing a roof Ingram from the time on.
• 43:45
  So I mean, I love roof Ingram as well, don't get me wrong.
• 43:47
  She's not, you know, there for women's lip and Blind the flag.
• 43:50
  She's a fucking competent female character at the heart of this
• 43:54
  story with no real concessions made at all for the fact that
• 43:57
  she's a woman. She's just a great, great
• 44:00
  character. She's got agency, she has her
• 44:02
  own opinions, she has plot relevance, and she even has a
• 44:06
  fag at one point as well. She is the height of call and I
• 44:09
  love it. And Anna Barry on the commentary
• 44:11
  is great. I said out.
• 44:19
  I'm my last reason. I mean, I could have picked
• 44:22
  1,000,000 reasons. I really, really love this
• 44:24
  story, but it's pertly the prick.
• 44:26
  Of course, sort of. We're edging away from season 8
• 44:31
  pertly towards season 10 per week.
• 44:33
  But you know, the window, the door opens and he's like to Joe,
• 44:37
  it's just the wind. Like you literally told her
• 44:40
  there's fucking ghosts in this house.
• 44:41
  All right, give her a break. And they're sitting there, you
• 44:45
  know, raiding the Cellars, drinking the wine, eating the
• 44:48
  cheese, giving us, you know what's got wine reviews as he
• 44:52
  goes. He's such a prat and he but I
• 44:55
  love him. I love how patronizing he is
• 44:57
  sometimes because I feel like very often the joke is on him
• 45:02
  rather than on the characters. He's being patronized too, but
• 45:07
  sort of turning out on his head in the future scenes.
• 45:10
  He's brilliant. The way he replays that scene
• 45:12
  where he's being brutalized in the cell.
• 45:14
  He looks genuinely broken in that scene.
• 45:17
  And his confrontation with the controller.
• 45:20
  You know, do you run all your factories like that controller
• 45:23
  that was not a factory doctor. That was a rehabilitation Center
• 45:26
  for hardened criminals, even old men and women and children.
• 45:30
  He goes, he is. So he's such a great.
• 45:33
  It's the same sort of moral force I love in Colin that you
• 45:36
  get from Pertwee. You know, he doesn't give the
• 45:38
  controller a chance to wriggle out of what he's doing.
• 45:42
  He's happy to call out a quizzling.
• 45:44
  So I love, I love, love Pertwee in this as well.
• 45:46
  And I think Pertwee and Manning have lots of great scenes in
• 45:49
  this as well, apart from that big where she's screaming, oh,
• 45:51
  help. Absolutely.
• 45:55
  It's horrible, isn't it? They look great on a trike too,
• 45:59
  don't you think? I just.
• 46:01
  Want to put in a little a little moment for the very cute unit
• 46:05
  scenes in this because obviously RHIP is something I've used at
• 46:09
  work. When I was a manager I used to
• 46:11
  say rank has his privileges all the time whilst being a total
• 46:14
  cum and sorry guys everyone I work with but also the Brigadier
• 46:20
  at the end gets one of his best lines ever where he goes be
• 46:24
  quiet Sir to Sir Reginald style when he's arguing back.
• 46:29
  Yeah I think this is the best story of the season.
• 46:34
  I'm quite pleased. The Daleks are just an influence
• 46:38
  on the story and not a dominant part of it because the human
• 46:42
  characters are so interesting and so well played and I
• 46:46
  wouldn't have taken less of them for more.
• 46:48
  I was about to say Nick Briggs dialogue but it's not Nick
• 46:51
  Briggs is it? But.
• 46:53
  It is on the version that Joe Short watched.
• 46:55
  Yeah, well, I really like, I really like, I like the new
• 46:59
  version. I don't like the new CGI of the
• 47:01
  tower because that just just looks odd.
• 47:03
  But I love the ending where they've added in extra Daleks
• 47:06
  and make it feel dynamic. I think that that's really well
• 47:08
  done. Like this is practically perfect
• 47:10
  for me. It's a, it's a going through.
• 47:13
  And it's absolutely is going through.
• 47:15
  I love this story. So my first reason is I think
• 47:18
  visually this is really strong, right?
• 47:21
  The perpier has got loads of really strong visual imagery all
• 47:25
  the way through it, whether it's Sea devils coming out of the sea
• 47:27
  that we'll come to later, or a giant maggots or a giant
• 47:30
  spiders. And yeah, this doesn't quite
• 47:33
  reach I guess those kind of really iconic peaks.
• 47:36
  I think visually is so much on here.
• 47:38
  So let's start with the Ogrons. I think they're capitalizing on
• 47:41
  the success of Planet of the Apes.
• 47:43
  And yeah, they only appear twice.
• 47:44
  And then masks may not be quite as great as, say, the
• 47:47
  Draconians. I still think those Ogrons are
• 47:50
  such a memorable villain. I mean, again, I'm going back to
• 47:54
  me being 5. I absolutely remembered the the
• 47:57
  Ogrons remember them for years to come.
• 47:59
  So I think they make a good they make a real impression on you
• 48:03
  then. So you mentioned it, the place
• 48:04
  where the tunnel where they all come out of I think because
• 48:07
  that's in kind of a scrubland and it's it's exactly the kind
• 48:10
  of place where kids will be playing in the 70s or exploring,
• 48:13
  you know, I certainly was. So it makes a real kind of ideal
• 48:16
  Doctor Who's setting and I love seeing the dialects and the
• 48:19
  Ocrons coming out of that at the end that visually that looks
• 48:22
  really good. That brings me to the dialects.
• 48:24
  Yes, there are only three of them.
• 48:26
  Whoopi do, but I don't care, particularly when I'm 5.
• 48:29
  They're gleaming. They actually look in good
• 48:32
  repair. Later, as we go through Pertway,
• 48:34
  they look worse for worse, certainly by planets of the
• 48:37
  dialects you can see the solar tape holding some of them
• 48:39
  together. But here I think they look in
• 48:42
  good condition, and the dialects as characters are absolutely in
• 48:45
  control of what's going on. Then you've got things like the
• 48:48
  interrogation scene, you know, you've got clips of Hartnell and
• 48:51
  Troutam and the doctors on a Gurney.
• 48:54
  It's all mixed in with the, you know, the opening credits in the
• 48:56
  background. I wonder we're at 10 million
• 48:58
  viewers. Absolutely.
• 49:01
  Really, really strong imagery and I will defend the final
• 49:05
  attack as well in its original form because let's be honest,
• 49:08
  most of it, most of us were watching this on a scratchy
• 49:11
  black and white fairly small TV. We didn't notice there were only
• 49:15
  three Daleks at that stage. So.
• 49:18
  And for me as a 5 year old, that was the most gripping TV.
• 49:20
  Even though the delegates do come out out of the house
• 49:23
  incredibly slowly as though they haven't got a care in the world.
• 49:27
  But I just thought busily. In order for us to find that set
• 49:31
  piece, I don't have it now where he needs to go and build a 1970s
• 49:34
  television and squint. It might make it slightly
• 49:38
  better. I'm just saying it right at that
• 49:41
  age, narratively, I think it's strong.
• 49:44
  I agree with you, John. I think it's a really solid
• 49:46
  script. It's got a killer twist.
• 49:49
  Watching it now, can you see where Terry Nation got the idea
• 49:53
  for Genesis, the dialects for with people going back in time
• 49:55
  to prevent the dialects developing into an all
• 49:58
  conquering force. Maybe he saw this and thought,
• 50:00
  oh I might, I might bank that for future.
• 50:04
  But yeah, this is a really solid script.
• 50:05
  We start off with all the talk of ghosts, although because we
• 50:09
  see the future doctor and the future Joe, we know it's not
• 50:12
  kind of traditional clanking, clanking chained ghosts, even
• 50:16
  though we are in a country manner, which is, you know, late
• 50:18
  at night. And it's kind of got that
• 50:20
  impression of the old ghost stories mixing up with the peace
• 50:23
  conference. And we'll have a few more of
• 50:24
  those to come in future stories. Then we travel forward 200 years
• 50:28
  and I think the future Earth is really well defined, even though
• 50:31
  a lot of it's done through dialogue.
• 50:33
  I think we see enough with the torture scenes, the factory
• 50:36
  workers to establish it as a real place, aren't they?
• 50:38
  Kids being ripped. There are.
• 50:41
  Yeah, there are. Why not?
• 50:42
  Damn. Good idea.
• 50:43
  All in the big finished car park from the looks of it it.
• 50:48
  Was it was, as I say again, it was the 70s.
• 50:53
  Child labour laws were a bit different.
• 50:55
  Absolutely. But I think narratively it's
• 50:58
  really strong. So that's, and then the last one
• 51:00
  you've all talked about, the guest performance is Aubrey
• 51:02
  Woods is brilliant, Anna Barry is brilliant.
• 51:05
  I mean, you know, it's only two stories ago they banned Susan
• 51:09
  Jameson from being the baddie because they didn't want a, a
• 51:11
  strong female character. Just two stories later, we've
• 51:14
  got Anna Barry. She's fabulous.
• 51:16
  But Aubrey Woods, I think because he hasn't, doesn't give
• 51:18
  a really kind of showy OTT performance.
• 51:21
  I think he often gets overlooked.
• 51:22
  Barry, let's don't like it, does he?
• 51:24
  In the country, he says he's he's mad.
• 51:27
  He's such a great who knows and may have lip to exterminate you,
• 51:32
  you know it's great. Hang on, is this Barry Letts
• 51:34
  that gave us Jeremy? Yes, that's.
• 51:37
  The one, yes. Oh, looks bathing Aubrey Woodsy
• 51:41
  managed to elicit fear and loathing, but sympathy as well.
• 51:45
  And that's a real difficult act to pull off.
• 51:47
  So yeah, I think guest performances are great.
• 51:49
  So yeah, absolutely. This is going through.
• 51:51
  Oh. Rod, excuse me a second.
• 51:53
  I'm just getting a call. Hello.
• 51:55
  Yes. Someone grunting down the phone.
• 51:58
  Hang on. You should get those calls.
• 52:02
  Oh, it's gruntly. It's gruntly.
• 52:05
  Oh, hi. Gruntly.
• 52:05
  Heard what we've been. Oh, he's heard Rod's comments
• 52:09
  about his terrible mask. Hang on.
• 52:11
  He said that the makeup lady had the flu, all right?
• 52:14
  She didn't put any slap on his face and leave him alone.
• 52:16
  Sorry, Hang. On.
• 52:19
  We do love you though. Can we get him on this just to
• 52:23
  grunt all the way? I think we.
• 52:24
  Should do, shouldn't we? No complications.
• 52:30
  We are following. Them.
• 52:34
  Oh. You give him a banana, he'll go
• 52:37
  anywhere. So.
• 52:38
  He's quite happy. If someone called Joe gives him
• 52:40
  a banana, he gets very excited. Absolutely.
• 52:42
  All right, Joe, all right. Which Joe is giving him Which
• 52:46
  banana? But let's move on swiftly from
• 52:48
  that. Sigh.
• 52:50
  Pick your story. OK, I am going to go to the peak
• 52:54
  of this season for me and it is the next story, The Curse of
• 52:59
  Pelodon, which I absolutely bloody adore.
• 53:04
  And I have adored this since 1982 when it was unexpectedly
• 53:08
  shown in an unexpected repeat season for Doctor Who and the
• 53:12
  Monsters. And I had no idea what this
• 53:15
  story was or why. And I, I think this is
• 53:19
  magnificent. I think for me, this is the
• 53:23
  moment that I fall in love with Pertwee, because this is the
• 53:27
  moment where they finally, finally work out that if you're
• 53:31
  going to have a Doctor Who's a prick, you have a companion who
• 53:35
  knows he's a prick and takes every single opportunity to make
• 53:39
  him look like an arse in front of everyone.
• 53:42
  And Joe finally gets to do that and gets her own back for being
• 53:48
  patronised throughout the whole of the demons.
• 53:51
  And moment that he looks that, she turns around and says it was
• 53:57
  the most deplorable situation the driver should be was
• 54:02
  thoroughly inept, he says. The toilet was exceedingly
• 54:07
  inefficient. She gets.
• 54:08
  This and. The double take that Pertwee
• 54:11
  does at moment because. He looks furious, doesn't he?
• 54:14
  And but also he's we also get, and I think the first inkling
• 54:19
  that he absolutely adores her. And that scene where he turns
• 54:23
  around to her and says, and how does it feel to be a Princess?
• 54:27
  Princess. And the look between them is one
• 54:31
  of utter, utter love. They're completely besotted with
• 54:35
  each other. And I think that is beautiful.
• 54:37
  So just for that reason, that's enough to make me love a Doctor
• 54:42
  that it's taken me a long time to warm to.
• 54:45
  This is this is the start of cuddly Pertwee.
• 54:47
  We're not quite there. We're not quite at Carnival of
• 54:50
  Monsters level yet, but we're getting there.
• 54:53
  And it's gorgeous. It's a beautiful relationship,
• 54:56
  but we've got the return of the Ice Warriors and then not the
• 54:59
  villains. And that's a brilliant,
• 55:02
  brilliant piece of writing from Brian Hales.
• 55:05
  And it just, and again, it shows the doctor to be a complete
• 55:09
  judge, mental asshole, that he cannot believe that that a race
• 55:15
  can be full of individuals and people can react differently.
• 55:19
  It's really great writing. And Asax, it's not asaxia, it's
• 55:23
  slaw, isn't it? No, it's is.
• 55:25
  Leah is. Leah, my business.
• 55:27
  I mean, they're all played by Alan Benyard.
• 55:29
  We. Understand why you're.
• 55:30
  Confused. But is Leah is a really great
• 55:34
  character. He's really sympathetic.
• 55:36
  He's he's clever, he's wonderful.
• 55:39
  He's like the doctor in Ice Warrior form, and I think that's
• 55:43
  really, really good. And the fact he wins Joe over
• 55:46
  before he wins the Doctor over is also a lovely moment that she
• 55:49
  works this out. And he's got no beef with
• 55:53
  anyone. He's just here as a
• 55:54
  representative of the Federation, trying to bring
• 55:57
  Paladin into the Galactic Federation, and there's.
• 56:00
  Peace in the bed, though. Oh, there's.
• 56:04
  Only one bed in their quarters and they're big boats.
• 56:07
  Yeah, it's not his subordinate I saw.
• 56:10
  It's going to be outside on guard the whole time.
• 56:13
  I think they're like horses. They sleep standing up because I
• 56:16
  think you know, you know, I think you know, the whole thing
• 56:18
  is when they might sleep standing up.
• 56:20
  We don't know. True, yeah.
• 56:22
  Maybe their heads just sort of go in like that, you know?
• 56:27
  Yeah. That's no good for anyone
• 56:30
  listening to this. Isn't it?
• 56:35
  But we've also got as well as Ice Warriors, we've got a
• 56:38
  variety of other monsters. We've got Arcturus I've here's
• 56:42
  like this that could have been like a Dalek if they'd if they'd
• 56:46
  done a Dalek badly. But his little, the little
• 56:49
  figure in the in the Dome at the top is really great.
• 56:54
  Joe's doing a brilliant impression on him at the moment.
• 56:58
  I'm sorry you cannot see that. I might put it out on the tweets
• 57:03
  and. Even better, we've got the
• 57:06
  wonderful Alpha Centurion reaction that she said.
• 57:12
  But he, it's so flappy and wonderful.
• 57:15
  Brilliant. Oh, I.
• 57:16
  Love who needs John Coulshore, man of me.
• 57:20
  Lulis unavailable. Big Finish.
• 57:23
  Kill your innocent side but Alpha Centuri could wank off 6
• 57:27
  people at once. That doesn't look like and does
• 57:32
  look like a Dick in a cloak. Only flaming cow, you know.
• 57:39
  Well, she she. Spends 50.
• 57:41
  They spent 50 odd years on Pelodon.
• 57:43
  They've got to do something or interesting.
• 57:45
  Absolutely. Mine is happy, you know.
• 57:48
  Just don't go to DVR, I beg of you all.
• 57:51
  Alright, I. Hate to think.
• 57:55
  But this is also a really engaging story.
• 57:57
  So as Rod touched upon in his intro, this is a story that is
• 58:02
  completely allegorical for what's going on in the country
• 58:05
  at the time. Should we join something that is
• 58:08
  bigger than us? Are we going to lose all our
• 58:10
  traditions? Are we going to lose everything?
• 58:14
  And it's it feels progressive and interesting and has a lot to
• 58:20
  say. And they even managed to
• 58:23
  shoehorn a great big gladiatorial fight for Pertwee
• 58:27
  in it without it feeling gratuitous and and out of place.
• 58:32
  So this is an absolute triumph. And this would be one of my top
• 58:37
  five Pertwee's. I love this story to bits.
• 58:39
  And again, four parts, absolutely perfect length
• 58:44
  doesn't outstay it was welcome. And off we go to another
• 58:47
  coronation. I've noticed the war Simon
• 58:50
  hasn't come along yet, so I'm waiting for his evil
• 58:53
  machinations. To.
• 58:55
  Arise. He's just warming up his
• 58:57
  battalion, don't worry. I'm like, I'm like Islia and
• 59:01
  Asaxia you I could swap between the two and you'd never notice.
• 59:06
  Let us go to the comments. James Lark says this era's first
• 59:10
  proper attempt at alien world building and as such it's an
• 59:13
  unqualified success. It's clearly a thoughtful script
• 59:16
  which the cast really get their teeth into, but it's also
• 59:19
  colourful camp and. Thoroughly entertaining, lovely
• 59:23
  Lucy McCall says I like it a lot.
• 59:25
  David Trouten manages to make pellet and noble rather than
• 59:28
  weedy. The monster in inverted commas
• 59:31
  is fun and the conniving is well played.
• 59:33
  The King's champion who seems to have had his tongue removed is a
• 59:36
  classical tradition too far for me though.
• 59:40
  Got to say that Lucy it it's a strain for David Charlton's
• 59:43
  maid. Peloton look noble in those
• 59:45
  trousers. Well, they're shorts, aren't
• 59:48
  they? With great big.
• 59:49
  Very shorts. They're very short shorts.
• 59:52
  Great legs I've. Never noticed that.
• 59:54
  I've never noticed his, you know.
• 59:56
  He's come on. Now.
• 59:58
  She's salivating, dear. I would have thought you would
• 1:00:01
  have had a 5 fetish like me. I think I better move this one
• 1:00:05
  swiftly on, Jim Allenby says. An entertaining, topical story
• 1:00:09
  populated with colourful characters and a great twist on
• 1:00:11
  the Ice Warriors. Hello Don is a richly developed
• 1:00:14
  world and the story moves along at a great pace.
• 1:00:17
  And Katie Manning looks gorgeous.
• 1:00:19
  She does, you know. You know, I keep telling you, I
• 1:00:21
  think I'm on the turn. You do.
• 1:00:23
  I'm getting worried about wondering if I might be bisexual
• 1:00:25
  these days. I mean, I was watching her in
• 1:00:27
  this and going. Well, all dogged up for a night
• 1:00:30
  on the town with Mike Yates, you've got to go.
• 1:00:33
  Yeah, you should have heard me talking about Jenna Coleman in
• 1:00:35
  series. Oh, it was.
• 1:00:38
  Robots of Sherwood, Oh dear God, what is wrong with you?
• 1:00:41
  I. Don't know, I should be very
• 1:00:42
  butched soon, Paul Quinn says, who does Star Trek really well.
• 1:00:47
  And for once, the whodunit is good.
• 1:00:49
  This era does alien civilizations and visions of the
• 1:00:52
  future really well, and Peloton is a good example of both extra
• 1:00:56
  marks for the Ice Warrior rug pool and the well executed fight
• 1:00:59
  in episode 3. And the Parkinson says, and I'll
• 1:01:01
  agree for Britain joining the EEC mirroring real world events
• 1:01:05
  per we seem to be enjoying himself and Joe gets a lot to
• 1:01:08
  do. Not a favorite, but still good.
• 1:01:11
  Gorgeous, David Gillespie Pratt says.
• 1:01:13
  My first ever VHS and it bored me to tears.
• 1:01:17
  Oh dear. But clearly I was a very stupid
• 1:01:20
  child. And as many of us have
• 1:01:22
  discovered as we got older, it's a grower and not a show up.
• 1:01:26
  It improves on each viewing. Keep it.
• 1:01:30
  Nathan Thompson says they're classic in every sense of the
• 1:01:32
  word. Word.
• 1:01:33
  Word. Even as opposed to world.
• 1:01:35
  Alan Bennion's is Leia is wonderful.
• 1:01:38
  And fans have been so. God, do I need to do this?
• 1:01:40
  Yeah, go on. Fans have been singing Cocluda
• 1:01:43
  Palma Meiner Clutcheru, Narun Narun for 50 years, so it must
• 1:01:49
  have been doing something right. An alien world worthy of a
• 1:01:53
  return visit. Usually when people sing on this
• 1:01:55
  podcast, I'll say they're wasted, but I'm not going to say
• 1:01:58
  it this time. Jack Owen says just thinking.
• 1:02:02
  Jack Owyer, complex skated cookie says this.
• 1:02:05
  Is. This is how you do a political
• 1:02:06
  story. It's not exactly subtle, but it
• 1:02:09
  doesn't feel like a lecture. You're allowed to draw your own
• 1:02:11
  conclusions. The guest characters are
• 1:02:13
  beautifully drawn and it's understandable why we return to
• 1:02:16
  this world. Jacqui, you said the film
• 1:02:18
  sequences look great and the clifftop is one of the best bits
• 1:02:20
  of set design for some time. You almost don't want them to
• 1:02:23
  get to the castle. One of Katie's best
• 1:02:25
  performances. Really funny and plays off quote
• 1:02:27
  we well. Refreshing to get back into the
• 1:02:30
  stars. Michael Storm, I'll find you.
• 1:02:34
  Michael Storm. All right, the four corners of
• 1:02:38
  the universe and I will find you.
• 1:02:41
  I'm ready anyway. That's what he says.
• 1:02:44
  A well thought out setting with complicated politics.
• 1:02:46
  We have a mix of aliens who feel like people rather than
• 1:02:49
  monsters. The bait and switch of Ice
• 1:02:51
  Warriors is great. However, Agador looks too cute
• 1:02:54
  to be menacing, and Centauri's voice is grating after a while.
• 1:02:59
  And Fitzgerald says despite being heavily studio bound and a
• 1:03:02
  bit predictable, I do enjoy really watching this every so
• 1:03:05
  often. Great to see the Ice Warriors in
• 1:03:07
  colour. Anthony Carroll.
• 1:03:08
  Fond memories from the 1982 repeat.
• 1:03:11
  Great characters on a good twist.
• 1:03:13
  Dylan Rees says great world building cookie monsters.
• 1:03:16
  Nagador is adorable. Big Orange here he is.
• 1:03:23
  Undermines our expectations of Ice Warriors in the best
• 1:03:26
  possible way. Who cares about Centauri?
• 1:03:28
  Looks like, well, you know, keep it.
• 1:03:32
  Daniel Knights is very enjoyable.
• 1:03:33
  Paladon is a well realized society and there are good
• 1:03:36
  performances, especially Katie Manning as a kid.
• 1:03:38
  I love the monsters and the Ice Warriors being the good guys is
• 1:03:41
  a nice twist. Matt Lee Newby the era's second
• 1:03:44
  and best trip off world with a breakneck script and more aliens
• 1:03:48
  than you can shake a Perigosto stick at.
• 1:03:53
  James Hartwin, Bennett said. Pronouns, bears and princesses.
• 1:03:56
  Well, he's technically a king, but it's brilliantly gay,
• 1:04:00
  brilliantly silly, and Doctor Who and the Monsters.
• 1:04:03
  Nostalgia galore. Keep it.
• 1:04:05
  The ultimate comment here from Paul Dunn bored me on it's 1982
• 1:04:10
  repeat as it was so wordy but as an adult I love it.
• 1:04:14
  Fantastic, well built in, great performances and Katie are best
• 1:04:18
  as Joe. And finally, Luke Sims Jenkins,
• 1:04:21
  sit down and prepare yourself for this, the only story of the
• 1:04:24
  season I like. Actually, I bloody love it.
• 1:04:28
  What a great use of the Ice Warriors in their best TV story.
• 1:04:31
  We shan't read out the rest of your comments this season then,
• 1:04:34
  I'm afraid, Luke, sorry. So lovely Joe Curse of Paladon,
• 1:04:39
  is it a curse or not? Oh, no, it's definitely not a
• 1:04:43
  curse. No.
• 1:04:43
  So it's as it's not, not basically what you all said.
• 1:04:50
  I sort of, it's my sort of feeling.
• 1:04:52
  I could do the singing, I could go.
• 1:05:01
  Thank you, What a lovely voice you are.
• 1:05:03
  Wasted the lovely joke. I know unfortunately I'm not.
• 1:05:07
  The whole thing about, you know, I like the use of the
• 1:05:11
  contemporary, you know, the whole John in the European
• 1:05:13
  Community and we all know how well that turned out.
• 1:05:17
  So also the whole thing about the Doctor, it's the first time
• 1:05:20
  you really see that the Doctor, I'm not going to say he's
• 1:05:25
  unbelievably prejudice rightly against the Ice Warriors because
• 1:05:28
  they have tried to kill him, just kill him a couple of times.
• 1:05:31
  He's going to turn you off a race.
• 1:05:34
  Yeah, it's just slightly, you know.
• 1:05:35
  But he will he you know, he will not he's got he takes Joe to
• 1:05:42
  basically overcome his purchase. Joe has never met the eyesore of
• 1:05:44
  his before, you know, and she's got doctors going on there
• 1:05:47
  volley whatever this, that and the other, you know, but she's
• 1:05:50
  got so much agent soon as she go, you know, she's basically
• 1:05:53
  she goes off she doesn't. She does basically what the
• 1:05:56
  Sarah Jane said. You know, she can go well, she
• 1:05:58
  can have her little benches. But this is the first time that
• 1:06:01
  you know, Katie has done that. I mean, Joe has done that
• 1:06:03
  before, you know, but then she was always sort of like she has
• 1:06:07
  real agency in this, you know, because the doctors are in
• 1:06:11
  prison or and everything. She's got a whole romance with
• 1:06:15
  the king, which is quite cute and, you know, sort of like, you
• 1:06:20
  know, they're very sweet together.
• 1:06:22
  He's very innocent, sort of, you know, but he's got, he just
• 1:06:26
  shows that the Doctor can be wrong, you know, there's a
• 1:06:30
  whole, you know, doesn't, you know, a lot of people say, oh,
• 1:06:32
  the Doctor's never wonder. Everybody.
• 1:06:33
  He's a, you know, he's our hero. Isn't the wrong, he is really
• 1:06:36
  wrong here and he's he's pedicist.
• 1:06:39
  He's very, very fugitive against the eyesore.
• 1:06:42
  It is. You know what's interesting,
• 1:06:44
  Joe, is. But he has, sorry, but he has
• 1:06:46
  to. You know, it takes, you know, a
• 1:06:50
  lot of hinting from Joe going no, I've spent time with them.
• 1:06:53
  They're not what you say. You know, Before she would have
• 1:06:56
  talked the doctor's words on it for everything.
• 1:06:59
  But she's developing her own mind as well as her own agency.
• 1:07:03
  She's actually sort of going well.
• 1:07:04
  No, you know, I don't. You've, you've told me the wrong
• 1:07:06
  thing. You know, I can see from my, you
• 1:07:08
  know, my own eyes this is wrong. And that's a very interesting
• 1:07:12
  thing. Sorry, Joe.
• 1:07:14
  No. Oh, I was interrupting.
• 1:07:15
  You don't trust me? No.
• 1:07:18
  It's interesting because Terrence Dicks in later years.
• 1:07:21
  He's the one that's quoted as saying the doctor's perfect and
• 1:07:24
  he's ever. But what's weird is in the era
• 1:07:26
  he scripted it, I. Think he's seen?
• 1:07:28
  He's most flawed as a as we've already said, but he's jealous
• 1:07:33
  in the Green death. You know he's selfish in Planet
• 1:07:37
  and Spiders and it makes him so much more interesting.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah, I know. You know, sort of like villains
• 1:07:45
  turning out to be the good guy. This is always a good thing, you
• 1:07:48
  know? So that's that switch sort of
• 1:07:49
  thing. And one thing I have about this
• 1:07:54
  I've said before where the bloody women on Paladon, how do
• 1:07:57
  they breed, how they survive, is that one woman who's letting you
• 1:08:01
  remain's wife, I think, who floats in and floats out again.
• 1:08:04
  And you know what? They've all, we've got the same
• 1:08:06
  same haircut. There must be even bread as
• 1:08:08
  buggery. It's.
• 1:08:11
  Planet of the Gaze. I know, how do they breed?
• 1:08:16
  It's difficulty. And also Alpha century, it's no
• 1:08:23
  surprising that you know, when she came back in in prison
• 1:08:27
  miles, it's back. It's quite sort of like, you
• 1:08:33
  know, when you think about my God, the fact is hermaphrodite.
• 1:08:38
  I didn't even know what I think we knew what one of those was in
• 1:08:40
  the 1970s. You know, I'm sorry, Dizzy Joe,
• 1:08:46
  I know, you know, but me and Rob know what the sort of the 70s
• 1:08:50
  are like, you know, You know, anything after the normal racial
• 1:08:53
  prejudice, homophobia, my good God, you know, sort of thing.
• 1:08:57
  I have a character like that and it is a bit sort of the silly
• 1:09:01
  voice and everything and a bit camp and everything.
• 1:09:03
  But actually just having in there and everyone goes, it's
• 1:09:06
  Alpha Centuri, you know, they're the delegate from Alpha Centuri.
• 1:09:12
  So what, you know, stick of, you know, stick of in with the other
• 1:09:16
  sort of alien characters and it's just like it's the norms,
• 1:09:19
  you know, the normality of her them.
• 1:09:22
  It's that was, Oh my God, the oh, pro pronouns, pronouns, but
• 1:09:30
  I loved that and the fact that, you know, then get to monster
• 1:09:33
  Peloton and they've been she's they've been there all that
• 1:09:36
  time, you know, and she's still, they're still sort of good.
• 1:09:39
  I mean, I've got Paul there, you know, been stuck on Peloton for
• 1:09:42
  50 years. Good God, but never mind.
• 1:09:44
  But no, it's going through. Fabulous bearded Joe.
• 1:09:48
  I can't call you prat Joe Bearded.
• 1:09:49
  Joe, I don't mind. I can knock it.
• 1:09:52
  Things. I call you Jesus.
• 1:09:53
  That's true. Oh, man, Yeah, obviously.
• 1:09:57
  I love this as well. I know I said this was a
• 1:09:59
  middling season, but I did say all the best was at the start.
• 1:10:02
  And how? How beautiful did this look
• 1:10:05
  brushed up on Blu-ray? Oh gosh.
• 1:10:08
  Early. Scene.
• 1:10:09
  Episode 1, I don't know who said it going up the Cliff face.
• 1:10:13
  It looks like a movie. It looks incredible.
• 1:10:16
  And that model work of the TARDIS when it falls down the
• 1:10:19
  Cliff, absolutely extraordinary. And I think actually this is, I
• 1:10:23
  said Hand of Fear might be Lenny Mae's best direction.
• 1:10:26
  I think it's a cross between either that or this.
• 1:10:29
  Something happened in the middle with the three doctors.
• 1:10:31
  And what else did he do, Monster?
• 1:10:34
  Teledon. Yes, we this is so much more
• 1:10:37
  atmospheric than Monster or Paladon, isn't it?
• 1:10:39
  I don't know why. Maybe there's more film work
• 1:10:41
  here. I think it's the lighting most.
• 1:10:44
  Yeah, they turn the lights down. Sort of done in silhouette and
• 1:10:47
  things like that. So the ice.
• 1:10:48
  Warriors go something really good about places that have like
• 1:10:51
  torches. And lots of smoke in the throne
• 1:10:56
  room. But you sort of put that that
• 1:10:58
  silhouette. Remember also before I don't
• 1:11:00
  really like the ask for a design, but I like the
• 1:11:02
  silhouette. Yes.
• 1:11:03
  And then you have that music and they look fabulous anyway. 3
• 1:11:11
  Reasons David Trouten gives an extraordinarily good performance
• 1:11:16
  above and beyond what he needed to give.
• 1:11:19
  And I think his relationship with Joe should be just hideous
• 1:11:23
  because it usually is in Doctor Who, and it's really sensitively
• 1:11:27
  done. I love the bit where she goes to
• 1:11:29
  him. What does mercy and compassion
• 1:11:31
  mean to you? And he's trying to justify his
• 1:11:33
  decisions. You know, he's a traditionalist,
• 1:11:35
  the character, but he's also a revolutionary.
• 1:11:38
  He wants to open out the world, but he's holding to his heart
• 1:11:42
  the traditions that he's been brought away with.
• 1:11:44
  He's got real debts to him and the Trout and plays him very
• 1:11:48
  sensitively without him being wet, you know, And he has got
• 1:11:53
  lovely thighs as well. Yeah, he's very boyish and
• 1:11:56
  obviously he became that dreadful old professor in
• 1:11:58
  Midnight later on in his life. But nobody's perfect.
• 1:12:04
  I put down the menagerie of monsters as well.
• 1:12:05
  Like so I said, I just love this.
• 1:12:07
  There's so many. We're going to go into space and
• 1:12:09
  we're going to give you one or two or three.
• 1:12:12
  We're going to give you 4. No, wait, we're going to throw
• 1:12:14
  in a shaggy dog as well with a Big Horn, you know, and they
• 1:12:18
  just go for it. And I think the ratings were
• 1:12:20
  still climbing at this point. One we're up in space 2.
• 1:12:24
  We've been like the Daleks, you know, they're they're sort of do
• 1:12:26
  a 12 hit at the beginning of the season and it works.
• 1:12:30
  A gym I put at the moment that John and Casey fell in love.
• 1:12:35
  Me and you are one sometimes. Sigh.
• 1:12:37
  We are sometimes. Moment where he says you know,
• 1:12:40
  how do you like being a Princess Princess that's.
• 1:12:43
  Not. The doctor and Joe, that is John
• 1:12:45
  Perry and Katie Manning adoring the fact that they are having
• 1:12:50
  burn UPS on the way to work every single day or however
• 1:12:53
  Katie Manning describes it. Yeah, I think this is actually
• 1:12:56
  quite exciting in places. I think the conspiracy plot is
• 1:13:00
  really interesting. I think the the fight at the end
• 1:13:02
  of episode 3 is beautifully shot, a lot of it from above.
• 1:13:06
  So it looks really dynamic. Yeah, it's it's atmospheric.
• 1:13:11
  It's political. Bugger me as it's never been
• 1:13:14
  more important. This story has it with it's pro
• 1:13:17
  Brexit agenda. So apologies for anyone who's
• 1:13:20
  anti Brexit out there. I know there's a few of you.
• 1:13:22
  Hey, Ken, He'll say it himself. But like, Hepesh is basically
• 1:13:27
  the Daily Mail readers, isn't he?
• 1:13:29
  You know, always trying to, you know, dig it in and say aliens
• 1:13:33
  are bad and all of this. And the show is actually saying
• 1:13:35
  no. If we come together, there'll be
• 1:13:37
  difficulties. Monster Belladon.
• 1:13:39
  But we are stronger together. And I believe that.
• 1:13:42
  And that's just what I believe. And so a Doctor Who story that's
• 1:13:46
  sort of waving the flag for that I love.
• 1:13:48
  Yeah. Again, gangbusters working on
• 1:13:51
  all cylinders. This is great Doctor Who.
• 1:13:53
  What a shame the rest of the season couldn't have stuck to
• 1:13:56
  these heady heights. Well, I'm going to continue the
• 1:14:00
  love because. That's.
• 1:14:02
  All I love so far. My first reason is I think
• 1:14:06
  there's quite a lot of murky and mucky politics going on here.
• 1:14:09
  We've talked a lot about this being similar to kind of Britain
• 1:14:12
  joining the EEC and clearly that is that, even though Barry and
• 1:14:16
  Terence constantly denied it, obviously it's that.
• 1:14:20
  We've never even heard of the miners strike now.
• 1:14:24
  I know what's a miner, but there's more going on here.
• 1:14:28
  There's quite a strong pastiche here, I think as well of
• 1:14:30
  Britain's colonial past going on.
• 1:14:32
  Because think about it, Paladon is technologically less advanced
• 1:14:36
  in the Federation and the Paladonians have kind of genuine
• 1:14:39
  fear that their new partners in the Galactic Federation are
• 1:14:42
  going to great slavery and exploit Paladon for its natural
• 1:14:45
  resources. So you've got kind of lots of
• 1:14:48
  parallels there with empire taking over and exploiting
• 1:14:51
  lands. And it's interesting that
• 1:14:52
  actually the other kind of story that that touches on this this
• 1:14:55
  season, which is the mutants absolutely does show you that
• 1:14:58
  shows you that when colonizers come, they're going to use,
• 1:15:01
  exploit and destroy the land. So that's quite a bit going on
• 1:15:05
  there. So well, a couple of you are
• 1:15:07
  talking about, is the doctor always right?
• 1:15:10
  Or is he sometimes a bit of a prick?
• 1:15:12
  Does he get it wrong? If you take this as an allegory
• 1:15:15
  not of the EEC, but if you take this as an allegory of
• 1:15:18
  colonization, the Doctor's position is go with it, allow
• 1:15:21
  yourself to be colonized. He tells Hapesh.
• 1:15:24
  Federation's a force for good. Now, is he doing that because
• 1:15:28
  he's doing what the Time Lords want him to do?
• 1:15:29
  Because he knows that the Time Lords have sent him here to do
• 1:15:32
  this? Or is he taking the direct
• 1:15:34
  wishes of the King, who tells him he wants to do it?
• 1:15:37
  Or is he just? Stolen report.
• 1:15:38
  Yeah, it's. Interesting, isn't it?
• 1:15:41
  Because in Moss Repellidon they are being exploited.
• 1:15:44
  Absolutely. And they they talk about it
• 1:15:46
  openly here as well. So there is that kind of double
• 1:15:48
  edged sword that obviously you haven't got that exploitation
• 1:15:50
  with the EC, you have got it with Empire.
• 1:15:52
  So do. You think it would have been
• 1:15:54
  quite funny if Queen Phalia, you know, with the lisp gone.
• 1:15:59
  Well, well, well, you know my nemesis, the doctor you caused
• 1:16:04
  all of. This.
• 1:16:05
  Yeah, absolutely. If you hadn't stuck around and
• 1:16:08
  sorted this out when we wouldn't be in this mess.
• 1:16:11
  So we were stuck with that cow Amazonia.
• 1:16:13
  That's. The life she has at the end to
• 1:16:15
  ecclesly look at what you've done she.
• 1:16:21
  Could have she could have accused him of gone and having
• 1:16:23
  party gate in the TARDIS with cheese and wine with Joe rather
• 1:16:26
  than sorting out the problems. But yes, there's lots of
• 1:16:30
  politics in and the language is really heavily rooted in
• 1:16:33
  politics too. Isn't it Alidom when he says to
• 1:16:36
  the Doctor a couple of times, I'm being completely honest with
• 1:16:39
  you. It's not a corny line.
• 1:16:40
  It's such a politician's line, isn't it?
• 1:16:43
  Even Hepesh says, oh, I don't want your death, trust me.
• 1:16:46
  And the next thing we see, he's plotting the doctor's death.
• 1:16:48
  So typical political. So there's loads and loads.
• 1:16:51
  I think there's so many murky politics in there.
• 1:16:54
  It's really interesting one to dig into.
• 1:16:56
  My second reason, guys, you've already said it is John and
• 1:16:59
  Katie together. They are just brilliant
• 1:17:02
  together. The doctor gets to be pompous,
• 1:17:04
  he gets to rule the Roosters. The ambassador, he has a big
• 1:17:07
  fight. He gets to charm Agador Joe
• 1:17:11
  also. She takes agency.
• 1:17:12
  She takes charge. I love the way she takes charge
• 1:17:15
  of the delegates on more than one occasion.
• 1:17:17
  She's like, she's the boss in the room.
• 1:17:18
  She's the she's the adults in the room telling them all off.
• 1:17:21
  Don't you love how she gets hypnotized by the spinning
• 1:17:23
  mirror as well? Yeah, that's adorable.
• 1:17:26
  Oh, good grief, Joe, wake up. I love you both, Joe, and so you
• 1:17:32
  both touched on that glorious conversation in party.
• 1:17:35
  But I love the line where she just smiles at him.
• 1:17:37
  And this absolute does feel like Katy Manning rather than Joe,
• 1:17:40
  the character who says, oh, you love all that chairman delicate
• 1:17:44
  stuff. And he smiles at him.
• 1:17:45
  She's smiling at him. They both know she's right.
• 1:17:48
  I don't. Admit it, it's that.
• 1:17:50
  Yeah, exactly. There's that moment at the end
• 1:17:52
  as well, though, where she is sad about going because she has
• 1:17:56
  fallen for King Belidom and he's not quite sure how to come for
• 1:18:00
  her, is he? And it's almost like a little
• 1:18:02
  prelude to what's going to happen in the Green Death.
• 1:18:04
  Oh, I thought. You were going to say implants,
• 1:18:06
  the dialects with Lartz that well realized romance.
• 1:18:09
  Now that just goes to show you when someone can be.
• 1:18:12
  Strangely wet, yeah, but there's another bear as well.
• 1:18:15
  When when she thinks she saved the Doctor from Agador in Part 3
• 1:18:19
  and initially gets annoyed with her.
• 1:18:21
  Now think back only last year, you know, Think how we tore a
• 1:18:24
  strip off her so many times in in Series A season 8.
• 1:18:28
  But now already they've warmed so much.
• 1:18:30
  He goes to tell off, but then he very quickly forget forgives her
• 1:18:33
  and he puts his arm around her and they're together again.
• 1:18:36
  So their relationship is absolutely thawed and blossomed.
• 1:18:40
  So that's the second reason. And then again, we've touched on
• 1:18:42
  the third reason. It's going to be all the aliens
• 1:18:45
  and sat there watching Katie and John stood around by Arcturus.
• 1:18:49
  Alpha Centauri, an ice warrior and an ice Lord.
• 1:18:51
  And there's no one else on screen.
• 1:18:53
  Just our doctor companion and a load of aliens.
• 1:18:56
  Yeah. OK, looking at it now, not all
• 1:18:59
  those costumes are brilliant. I'm looking you Alpha Centauri.
• 1:19:02
  But do you know what? Again, as a kid, as a 5 year
• 1:19:04
  old, I fell in love with Aguador.
• 1:19:06
  I wanted an Aguador. I loved Alpha Centauri.
• 1:19:09
  I thought she, he, it was the greatest thing on TVI can't tell
• 1:19:13
  you how happy I was when Alpha came back in Monster of Paladol.
• 1:19:18
  I just love that character. So yeah, I think this is
• 1:19:21
  fabulous. Absolutely.
• 1:19:22
  It's going. Through you think Stuart Phil's
• 1:19:23
  doing a lot of work as well, but.
• 1:19:25
  Yeah. Santori has to vote and he looks
• 1:19:27
  at the one person and then he just very gently lifts up his
• 1:19:31
  his feelers. And sadly, yeah, you can see the
• 1:19:36
  bitter string, but Oh well. Exactly.
• 1:19:39
  It's beautiful. I love Alpha Central.
• 1:19:42
  I still love Alpha Central. So.
• 1:19:44
  I do not understand. Joe, that's the same voice you
• 1:19:50
  do for companions. Just my normal voice.
• 1:19:54
  So we've got 2 for two. Where's all this hate for 9?
• 1:19:58
  It's just been a loving. Joe.
• 1:20:01
  Come on, let's go to your beard. Joe, let's go to you.
• 1:20:04
  Well, Evil Joe's gonna have to come out, I suppose, because we.
• 1:20:07
  Can't beard. We can't.
• 1:20:08
  Yeah, sorry. Yeah, that's what I call him.
• 1:20:11
  Yeah. Suffered.
• 1:20:13
  Here comes evil. No.
• 1:20:14
  Anyway, The Mutants, The Mutants is a clever story.
• 1:20:23
  I think it is well written and I think that's where the good ends
• 1:20:31
  because because I think it's got some good ideas.
• 1:20:35
  I think it it actually does bother to give the guest
• 1:20:38
  characters some personality and relationships with each other.
• 1:20:45
  There is also some cliched ideas in there as well.
• 1:20:47
  You know, the primitives on the planet.
• 1:20:48
  What's the name Varan? You know he is your stock sort
• 1:20:52
  of Star Trek primitive coming up with his big sword and his hairy
• 1:20:55
  costume. But fuck this is an ugly story
• 1:20:59
  to look at and claustrophobic despite the fact it's out in
• 1:21:03
  this huge fucking quarry and his massive caves.
• 1:21:07
  I might always feel as if I'm locked in a cupboard when I'm
• 1:21:10
  watching this story. I think it's the ultimate
• 1:21:14
  example of Planet Zog. No, we'll call it colonised
• 1:21:17
  Planet Zog, shall we? In that we don't really get any
• 1:21:22
  sense of what is going on on this planet beyond the fact that
• 1:21:26
  there is a primitive settlement and a load of mutants that are
• 1:21:29
  missing. They look great in a cave and
• 1:21:32
  that's it. And I don't really get an idea
• 1:21:34
  of what precisely they are colonising over.
• 1:21:39
  And there's a bit right there is a bit where they go down into
• 1:21:41
  the caves and all of a sudden it goes into slow motion and it
• 1:21:45
  goes all trippy with mad CSO and rainbow colours going on and
• 1:21:49
  someone's coming out in this weird suit.
• 1:21:51
  And at that point, like just anything recognisable or
• 1:21:54
  relatable or understandable has deserted the show completely.
• 1:22:00
  And I'm like, that was just by watching.
• 1:22:02
  That's just pride weekend on solos.
• 1:22:05
  No, that's the end. When it comes flying down the
• 1:22:07
  corridor, that's in Fairy. No, no, no.
• 1:22:12
  That is Mr. Burns in The X-Files episode of Simpsons.
• 1:22:16
  You know he comes out of the. Forest, good morning.
• 1:22:23
  Star Shine. Yeah.
• 1:22:27
  So at that point, I was just out.
• 1:22:29
  I'm like, look, this could be clever, but I don't understand
• 1:22:32
  what's going on. I'm not enjoying any of the
• 1:22:34
  people that are involved, and I feel as if I've taken a large
• 1:22:39
  dose of hallucinatory drugs. What the fuck is happening?
• 1:22:42
  This is what Rusty Davis was avoiding in Series 1.
• 1:22:45
  You know, it's just bad. Yeah.
• 1:22:49
  Cramped, horrible sets, hideous colour scheme everywhere.
• 1:22:54
  There's nothing pleasant on the eye at all in this.
• 1:22:58
  Those sets, they feel like they like any sense of style or
• 1:23:01
  function. You know those weird corridors
• 1:23:04
  that seem to go wrapped in circles?
• 1:23:07
  Bizarre machine that comes up from the floor at an angle?
• 1:23:10
  I don't know what's going on there.
• 1:23:12
  If they feel like cheap BBC science fiction sets rather than
• 1:23:17
  a fully functioning world, skip forward to something like
• 1:23:22
  Frontier in Space in the next season and the design there and
• 1:23:25
  the money that they pour into those sets. 1 They're beautiful
• 1:23:29
  and they're well lit and all of that, but they actually, it
• 1:23:31
  feels like you're immersed in a world, whereas I just, I'm
• 1:23:34
  unconvinced by this world. It just feels like they've
• 1:23:37
  dusted down a load of whatever they've got from the last season
• 1:23:41
  and put it all together. And I want to go after
• 1:23:45
  Christopher Barry's direction as well because I think he's got
• 1:23:48
  ambition in this story. And I think maybe that's reached
• 1:23:53
  in the scenes in The Cave, which are shot on film, well lit, and
• 1:23:56
  the monsters are great. But that is like 5 minutes of
• 1:23:59
  this story or maybe 15 minutes, and it's 6 episodes long.
• 1:24:02
  And I want to point out one particular scene they just can't
• 1:24:06
  do. And nobody said let's not do
• 1:24:09
  this, we'll try and do another set piece.
• 1:24:13
  So they decide to have an entire wall blow out in a set and then
• 1:24:18
  have the entire car sucked out into space, grabbing older
• 1:24:23
  consoles as if that was going to stop them.
• 1:24:26
  And just with the mixture of the CSO and the bad camera work and
• 1:24:30
  the dodgy acting, it's just, it's not compelling.
• 1:24:34
  It's one of those moments where you pray nobody's going to walk
• 1:24:37
  into the room and watch you watching this bullshit that
• 1:24:40
  you've committed your life to. Yeah, I don't really want to
• 1:24:46
  have too much of A go at Rick James as Cotton because I really
• 1:24:50
  am pleased to see some representation, but it's a
• 1:24:53
  fucking terrible performance. It's.
• 1:24:55
  Oh no, I just remembered going to die.
• 1:25:01
  Sigh, we'll all be done for. Stubbsy bad.
• 1:25:07
  I wonder if perhaps they should have reversed the roles.
• 1:25:09
  But then we would have been murdering the black man early in
• 1:25:13
  the story, and I'm pleased we didn't do that.
• 1:25:16
  But who plays the other guy? He's really Christopher Cole.
• 1:25:20
  Yeah, he's really charming. And he dies early.
• 1:25:23
  And unfortunately, Rick James is left to emote.
• 1:25:27
  He can't emote, you know. Stop.
• 1:25:29
  See, mate, is what he says. And it's it's just not sad.
• 1:25:34
  I like the Marshall. He is very hissable.
• 1:25:36
  He's horrible, isn't he? I don't like him, Joe.
• 1:25:38
  I mean, I don't. Like the performance you love to
• 1:25:41
  hate? Him.
• 1:25:42
  He's sort of like me, you know, a big tubby camp dictator in the
• 1:25:47
  middle of a Doctor Who story. Yeah.
• 1:25:51
  Yeah, but I do, I find this too long.
• 1:25:53
  I do find it quite boring. And I just, I like pretty things
• 1:25:57
  to look at. You know, it's very
• 1:25:58
  complimentary about Curse of Pelodon with its suffuse
• 1:26:01
  lighting and, you know, beautiful filming, but God, this
• 1:26:05
  is miserable to look at after the demons.
• 1:26:09
  Yeah, Chris, Barry says it's might be the best thing he did
• 1:26:12
  in his commentary. It's not all right.
• 1:26:15
  It weren't downtime. Whatever, Chris.
• 1:26:17
  Yeah. So no, sorry.
• 1:26:20
  The Mutants is not going through for me, although my vote doesn't
• 1:26:23
  count. Well, I'm sure at least one of
• 1:26:26
  you will have some good sense in you.
• 1:26:29
  Let's come to the comments. Complexicated Cookie says.
• 1:26:32
  Yes, it sprawls a little bit, but we still have some
• 1:26:34
  interesting characters, a pantomime villain that we can
• 1:26:37
  all hate, and a few decent supporting performances.
• 1:26:39
  The story works well. As a disabled person, the idea
• 1:26:43
  of a condition evolving into a superpower very much appeals to
• 1:26:46
  me, and Pertwee is on top form. You knew I was going to diss
• 1:26:50
  this, didn't you? You gave me a second comment on
• 1:26:52
  purpose, Paul Quinn says. I love the mutants.
• 1:26:56
  Hate is going to hate, but they're just months.
• 1:27:00
  Jim Allenby said great idea and visuals but the length lets it
• 1:27:04
  down. Thank you.
• 1:27:05
  Pardon chair. Don't usually find that length
• 1:27:08
  lets things down, but anyway. No.
• 1:27:09
  Do you remember when I went on this podcast now to explain
• 1:27:12
  topping and bottoming to it? On more than one occasion.
• 1:27:17
  He doesn't realise what he's saying there.
• 1:27:20
  The mud design is fantastic. You said mud, right, Paul Smy.
• 1:27:25
  A very dull story with lots of paddock.
• 1:27:27
  Oh Paul, you can see such a wise man.
• 1:27:29
  Best character is Jeffrey Palmer who was killed in episode 1.
• 1:27:32
  Now look here. He's been quoted the
• 1:27:34
  Discontinuity guide. Glen Fitzgerald says where the
• 1:27:37
  season goes a bit downhill. I really like the mutants design
• 1:27:40
  but it's a bit too long. Michael Storm, the lovely,
• 1:27:44
  lovely Michael Storm. Please come to my house,
• 1:27:48
  Michael, because you'll have a friendly welcome.
• 1:27:51
  I don't have a bazooka. 2 episodes too long.
• 1:27:55
  Yeah, I'm the next Brookside subplot. 2 episodes too long.
• 1:27:59
  Some diabolical acting and questionable dialogue too.
• 1:28:02
  However, the mutant design is fantastic and the life cycle
• 1:28:04
  idea is good. The Marshall is a great villain
• 1:28:07
  who is the only believable character.
• 1:28:10
  Ben. That, Coyer said Episode 1 is
• 1:28:12
  pretty underrated. A lot of intriguing political
• 1:28:15
  machinations and the assassination is really well
• 1:28:17
  handled. I think it's some of the best
• 1:28:19
  dialogue from the Bristol Boys, digging deep into the critiques
• 1:28:22
  of expansionist empire we've been looking for for most of the
• 1:28:25
  season. Unfortunately, this doesn't have
• 1:28:28
  the legs for six parts. Some of the best dialogue from
• 1:28:31
  the Bristol Boys and we are all together Kukuku.
• 1:28:33
  Chew, David. The Beatles wrote that, so yeah.
• 1:28:38
  Lennon, McCartney. Wrote that so yeah.
• 1:28:42
  Maybe he's got a point there. David Gillespie Pratt.
• 1:28:45
  A story with good intentions to tell a political, provocative
• 1:28:48
  story. Some things work, some things
• 1:28:50
  really don't. Some of Christopher Barry's
• 1:28:52
  direction is really slapdash and rushed.
• 1:28:54
  Probably his weakest story, yes. Jason Thompson said loved it
• 1:28:58
  when it came out on VHS. The Marshall is one of the
• 1:29:00
  series great villains and the mutts are a fantastic design.
• 1:29:04
  I love that the entire plot only happens because the
• 1:29:06
  administrator was so fixated on delivering a momentous speech
• 1:29:10
  that he got shot before he could tell the Salonians he was giving
• 1:29:13
  them exactly what they they wanted.
• 1:29:15
  You'd be hopeless in a Doctor Who plot.
• 1:29:17
  You know the speeches you give. Oh God, yeah, I'll be shot
• 1:29:20
  straight away. Dave Reddy, a good script and
• 1:29:23
  characters, it just looks so bland and lifeless.
• 1:29:28
  He's so succinct, isn't he, compared to you?
• 1:29:31
  Daniel Knights is far better than his reputation thanks to
• 1:29:33
  some strong direction, especially on location.
• 1:29:36
  Some interesting acting choices. I'm assuming that's rhetorical,
• 1:29:40
  Daniel distract from the fact that it should only be 4
• 1:29:42
  episodes. Andy Parkinson, Lovely.
• 1:29:45
  Andy Harkinson. Gosh, when are we going to get
• 1:29:47
  him on this? We need to.
• 1:29:49
  Yeah, good grief. One of the stories I initially
• 1:29:52
  hated, But the Blu-ray? Oh no, I don't want him on
• 1:29:54
  anymore. Yeah.
• 1:29:55
  Blu-ray? Really.
• 1:29:56
  Changed my opinion, even appreciating Rick James's
• 1:30:00
  performance more. Oh Andy.
• 1:30:02
  OK, so it's not a classic, but it's certainly not a stinker.
• 1:30:05
  Some great themes are explored. Keep it.
• 1:30:07
  I do want him on. Really.
• 1:30:09
  I wasn't being serious. Madeline Newby says it's the
• 1:30:11
  weakest here, but it's got enough going on with a strong
• 1:30:14
  political message that it's art, some cool design ideas, Groovy
• 1:30:18
  effects, and that Monty Python reference.
• 1:30:20
  What's? That.
• 1:30:22
  When the guy comes in the opening shot, it looks like the
• 1:30:25
  beginning of Monty Python, yeah? And it comes because even Monty
• 1:30:28
  Python comes up and goes. It's and he goes and Monty
• 1:30:33
  Python starts. That's why all the people in the
• 1:30:35
  commentary shout that out at the start of.
• 1:30:36
  The story, yeah. Yeah, that's what it is.
• 1:30:38
  I mean, it looks like. That so, yeah.
• 1:30:41
  Neil Process is a confused slog and one of Pertwee's worst.
• 1:30:45
  An interesting apartheid analogy that's been over complicated in
• 1:30:48
  development, resulting in an uncompelling mess.
• 1:30:52
  James Larks is hugely ambitious and full of big ideas, unusual
• 1:30:57
  enough, unusually to sustain 6 episodes.
• 1:30:59
  It doesn't all land, but kudos for attempting it and there's
• 1:31:02
  loads to enjoy. The film sequences look
• 1:31:05
  absolutely gorgeous and the creature design is excellent.
• 1:31:08
  You ready for this? Everybody give me a big.
• 1:31:11
  Big give me. Orange.
• 1:31:13
  Orange. Michael.
• 1:31:15
  Michael, what did? You get.
• 1:31:18
  Big orange Michael, OH. Wonderful.
• 1:31:22
  You're hired. Probably an episode or two too
• 1:31:25
  long with CSO straight to its limit.
• 1:31:28
  The sky based sets are intriguing.
• 1:31:30
  The location works well to grief.
• 1:31:33
  The location work works well Rod.
• 1:31:37
  Works well. It's me I remember.
• 1:31:40
  Couple of questionable performances mar this one.
• 1:31:42
  Not quite essential 3rd Doctor, but still good.
• 1:31:44
  Alas, I say, been it. James Hadwin, Bennett said.
• 1:31:48
  Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff, but the Doctor murders
• 1:31:50
  Jaeger, the vacuum scene is awful, and I'm not sure how I
• 1:31:53
  feel about the race of super gods at the end.
• 1:31:56
  Jaeger was really fucking annoying.
• 1:31:58
  I really it's so good when he does that.
• 1:32:00
  Paul Dunn. I actually quite like this.
• 1:32:01
  Like all Pertwee stories, it's too long and rambling, but the
• 1:32:05
  lighting indicators is good and apart from Cotton all the
• 1:32:07
  performances are fine. And yes, he's back, Luke Sims
• 1:32:11
  Jenkins to round us off dull, predictable and boring.
• 1:32:15
  Is that you, Luke, or is that your comments on the mutants?
• 1:32:18
  It's also six. It's also 6 episodes too long.
• 1:32:22
  No, that bitch that. No, that's not a typo.
• 1:32:26
  Erase it. Bob Baker and Dave Martin suck.
• 1:32:30
  Whoa. It's because it's because
• 1:32:33
  they're in rival book clubs now, you know?
• 1:32:37
  Right. I'm going to respond to you,
• 1:32:38
  Joe, on the mutants, yes, there is some absolutely body
• 1:32:44
  direction of this. I cannot argue with that.
• 1:32:46
  We've got boom shots very, very clearly in camera.
• 1:32:50
  The weird bit in Sundergaard's laboratory where they cut
• 1:32:54
  between two cameras, 1's got a weird filter on and the other
• 1:32:57
  one hasn't, and they keep cutting between the two and it's
• 1:33:00
  really disorientating what's going on.
• 1:33:03
  You're absolutely right. The cliffhanger's episode 4.
• 1:33:06
  Why the fuck did no one just employ a wind machine just to
• 1:33:09
  give it a bit of motion and action?
• 1:33:11
  It is terrible. It feels like the adventure
• 1:33:13
  game. For everyone lean this way, no.
• 1:33:16
  It's so bad, it's so bad but but but but I think this is the best
• 1:33:22
  script of the year and I really like this.
• 1:33:25
  The best script of the year, Do you?
• 1:33:27
  Think script, yeah. It's a good script, but.
• 1:33:30
  It is a good script. So my reasons for loving this,
• 1:33:34
  the first thing is I think this has really got some teeth to it,
• 1:33:37
  and it's really odd in it that we're in Season 9.
• 1:33:40
  Mac Hulk, who usually writes the kind of sociopolitical stuff
• 1:33:43
  he's writing. This year's Action Adventure on
• 1:33:45
  Bob and Dave, who usually write the kind of gung ho stuff, are
• 1:33:49
  writing this angry script. It feels like they've swapped
• 1:33:51
  places. Well, I, I talked about it
• 1:33:53
  earlier, didn't I? Recurse Paladon this low tier
• 1:33:56
  that's really critical about how Britain and other countries have
• 1:33:59
  colonized other territories here.
• 1:34:01
  The Earth Empire has has ravaged solos, they've mined the
• 1:34:04
  Theseium, and now they intend to change the atmosphere to suit
• 1:34:08
  them at the expense of thislotians.
• 1:34:10
  It is genocide for mineral wealth and for land.
• 1:34:13
  Very clear. And it's the language that they
• 1:34:15
  used to justify it. The Marshall talks about the
• 1:34:19
  solosians having an upsurge in nationalism.
• 1:34:21
  He talks about attacks and sabotage and terrorism.
• 1:34:25
  Really strong words all just to justify his actions.
• 1:34:29
  It's language that we're probably quite familiar with in
• 1:34:32
  current day politics, but I will leave it there and let you come
• 1:34:35
  to your own conclusions. The slosions are just treated
• 1:34:39
  with absolute disdain. The way they use the word
• 1:34:41
  natives all the time to describe them.
• 1:34:43
  It's absolutely loaded with that kind of white superiority.
• 1:34:48
  And then of course you got things like the two trans map,
• 1:34:50
  one for the Overlord, one for those slosions, all per what we
• 1:34:53
  need to do is look at it and just kind of touch and go
• 1:34:55
  segregation. And, you know, the point is made
• 1:34:58
  for you. And I like the fact he doesn't
• 1:35:00
  overly lay breath, but it's pretty damn obvious what's going
• 1:35:04
  on. On top of that, you've got a lot
• 1:35:06
  about a strong ecological message here as well.
• 1:35:09
  You know, this is the universe where Earth is now just, you
• 1:35:12
  know, slag and clinker as we'll hear about in Invasion of
• 1:35:16
  Dinosaurs, as we've already heard about in Colony and Space,
• 1:35:18
  ironically, both Malcolm all stories.
• 1:35:21
  But there's also another theme in here about don't judge by
• 1:35:24
  appearances. We did that really, really badly
• 1:35:27
  in Galaxy 4 that we talked about a couple of episodes ago.
• 1:35:30
  But here we've got it again. You know, the mutants aren't
• 1:35:32
  evil and yet their appearance alone in episode 6 is enough to
• 1:35:36
  get the investigator to decide that they need wiping out just
• 1:35:40
  because he sees them. So purely on their aesthetics,
• 1:35:42
  he he puts out the call to kill them.
• 1:35:45
  So I think there's an awful lot of stuff going on here that's
• 1:35:47
  that's a bit deeper than just your average doctor.
• 1:35:50
  So I love it for all that. Second reason is the Marshall.
• 1:35:54
  I love the Marshall. Yes, Pertwee years are full of
• 1:35:57
  these irritating, self aggrandizing jumper, short
• 1:36:00
  sighted, usually fat civil servants.
• 1:36:03
  We've just had Walker and Sea Devils here.
• 1:36:05
  We've got the Marshall. And at first scene, I know
• 1:36:08
  people always say, oh, the Monty Python scene, it's actually
• 1:36:11
  quite bloodthirsty. He's chasing down an elderly
• 1:36:14
  man, he shoots him, he kills him and then he says look at it,
• 1:36:17
  disgusting mess. Get rid of it.
• 1:36:20
  It's really strong. I mean for Pertwee this is quite
• 1:36:23
  strong stuff and straight. Away forested on on the Moors,
• 1:36:26
  you know, Yeah. It probably would have done 1
• 1:36:28
  to. Throw brick.
• 1:36:29
  Sees it's. Yeah, it's just, it's.
• 1:36:33
  Really strong and it's not just, you know, it's not just the
• 1:36:36
  doctor that questions him, the administrator to I love that
• 1:36:38
  scene with the administrating episode one with Jeffrey Palmer
• 1:36:41
  when he's trying to kind of move him on.
• 1:36:42
  He says, oh, don't worry, old chap will find you something.
• 1:36:45
  The Bureau of Records, perhaps something clerical It's.
• 1:36:50
  Still a motive, don't it? Absolutely he does, and that's
• 1:36:53
  why he gets assassinated, which start starts, as one of the
• 1:36:55
  comments said, that starts the whole chain of events that we
• 1:36:58
  see. So I love the fact that we're
• 1:37:00
  building up this is a a civil service like Walker that we get,
• 1:37:04
  but actually getting the reins of power on where that takes to.
• 1:37:07
  And I think all Wilson Jones plays it really well.
• 1:37:10
  I think he's got great credibility.
• 1:37:12
  He's he's someone we just love to hate.
• 1:37:15
  You know, we've all been there, right?
• 1:37:16
  And I want to look at you all when I say this.
• 1:37:18
  We've all had that manager that is the wrong person in the right
• 1:37:22
  job. And this is the ultimate example
• 1:37:25
  of that, isn't it? Where they want the job for the
• 1:37:28
  wrong reason, the power, and just to be a total asshole.
• 1:37:33
  Absolutely. And there's that lovely, lovely
• 1:37:35
  interchange where he says, he says to him, you're quite mad.
• 1:37:39
  And he says, only if I lose. Great.
• 1:37:44
  That alone deserves putting this story through.
• 1:37:48
  Did. You think it was Terrence
• 1:37:49
  though, because you know our Terrence sort of in later.
• 1:37:51
  Years ago. Ego, you know.
• 1:37:53
  Oh yeah, I'm pro Empire. Never mind Barry, you know in
• 1:37:57
  the middle of this script you've got a tubby pro empire.
• 1:38:00
  Villain, yeah, who knows? Who knows?
• 1:38:03
  But it doesn't feel like Bob and Bob and Dave, I've got to admit
• 1:38:06
  that. And I I unlike you, Joe, I like
• 1:38:08
  the location. I think Solos is, well, visually
• 1:38:11
  well realized. On the whole, I think the
• 1:38:13
  scrubland looks really great with all that mist.
• 1:38:16
  The caves look fabulous. I mean, compare it to that God
• 1:38:18
  awful set we get of Varon's Village in the studio, which
• 1:38:22
  looks hideous, but on film it looks fantastic.
• 1:38:25
  Did you say to me once that you know when you go on holiday, say
• 1:38:27
  generally it all goes hideously wrongs?
• 1:38:29
  Yeah, I do. That's usually I usually.
• 1:38:31
  End up in solo. If you think this is somewhere
• 1:38:33
  that's pretty and appealing, I can see where you end up.
• 1:38:38
  So I think it's got far more going for it than people give it
• 1:38:41
  credit for. So I love the mutant.
• 1:38:43
  So I want to put it through I. I.
• 1:38:50
  Am utterly different to this story and I don't quite know
• 1:38:54
  which way to go, so I'm going to work this out as I'm talking
• 1:38:57
  because there are lots of good things and there are lots of bad
• 1:39:00
  things. Firstly, I'd like to give a
• 1:39:02
  shout out to to designer Jeremy Baer for introducing a Doctor
• 1:39:08
  Who icon and he designs the triangular wall that we will get
• 1:39:14
  throughout the rest of Doctor Who history and is still
• 1:39:18
  available to buy to this day. And he?
• 1:39:20
  Imagined that he put a lot, so much effort into those
• 1:39:23
  triangular walls that didn't bother with the rest of the
• 1:39:26
  season. That's why they look so that's.
• 1:39:28
  How it feels This is a story that, like you say, it has lots
• 1:39:32
  to say and is angry about the things it's got to say.
• 1:39:37
  And that's really good. It's it's highly political again
• 1:39:41
  and again Barry and Terence will say, oh, no, it wasn't
• 1:39:44
  deliberate, but it's got a it is, it's an anti colonial, it's
• 1:39:49
  the end of African colonies or what wherever.
• 1:39:54
  It's all the things that are going on in the news around this
• 1:39:57
  time with countries taking back their own power after all these
• 1:40:02
  years. So it's got big things to say.
• 1:40:04
  It just says something such a boring way.
• 1:40:06
  That's the problem, you know, and it's it's the easiest thing
• 1:40:12
  in the world to say a poet. We sick parter is too long, but
• 1:40:16
  it's too long, you know, because it's it's true.
• 1:40:21
  It's the story feels like it's extended by little bits of
• 1:40:25
  jeopardy, like, oh, the like when we get the the people in
• 1:40:31
  who are the adjudicator is coming.
• 1:40:34
  So we get that and he's going to side with the doctor, but he's
• 1:40:38
  not going to. But then something happens and
• 1:40:40
  he's not siding with it. So we've got a little bit more
• 1:40:42
  to go through this slog of the story.
• 1:40:45
  But the actual, actual idea. I love the the doctor having
• 1:40:49
  having a wonderful, pertly fluff, particularly when the
• 1:40:52
  ball arrives and he's and I couldn't open it if I wanted to.
• 1:40:55
  And besides which I can't open it.
• 1:40:59
  I usually he's usually word perfect, isn't it?
• 1:41:02
  Absolutely. So he's slightly off.
• 1:41:04
  Yeah, the muted design is brilliant, but the other costume
• 1:41:08
  design is very functional, which we won't get from James H Son
• 1:41:13
  going forward. He will be one of the stand out
• 1:41:15
  costume designers of this era. So that's OK.
• 1:41:21
  We've got really good actors and we've got George Prafter who?
• 1:41:27
  Oh, sorry, was that we've got really good actors and.
• 1:41:30
  And George Prafter. He's not included with the he
• 1:41:35
  gives the dreadful performance in every single Doctor Who story
• 1:41:38
  he's in. Marshall.
• 1:41:42
  Everyone says his spandrel is really one note and boring, so
• 1:41:46
  there we go. But And I don't think he's any
• 1:41:50
  good here. And Professor Yeager should be
• 1:41:52
  the evil villain at the heart of this.
• 1:41:55
  And it's just, it's such a flat performance that you can't you
• 1:41:59
  can't go either way. And compared to when he's acting
• 1:42:02
  against Paul Whitson Jones, who is stratospherically over the
• 1:42:06
  top, those scenes just fail as as basic drama because you've
• 1:42:11
  got someone who is not able to talk very well and then.
• 1:42:14
  Someone who isn't completely over.
• 1:42:15
  There and it's just. It's.
• 1:42:19
  The two takes on a villain in Doctor Who.
• 1:42:21
  Yeah, we know which one we prefer, right?
• 1:42:23
  Absolutely. I think Paul Whitson Jones is
• 1:42:26
  brilliant and I think Derek Hagen is brilliant and he's
• 1:42:29
  very, very pretty indeed, which gets you through a lot.
• 1:42:34
  But Sundergaard is nicely played by John Hollis.
• 1:42:39
  But you know, we also have Tristan Carey back doing music,
• 1:42:45
  and that works against this story every way it's.
• 1:42:49
  Horrible. It's just horrible music, Yeah.
• 1:42:53
  You know, I, I will come out and say I really love what Malcolm
• 1:42:58
  Clarke did, but this I, I found this just is.
• 1:43:03
  It makes the story difficult to listen to as well as difficult
• 1:43:08
  to watch. Like I say, the location work is
• 1:43:11
  really good, but the set, the studio work is not so good.
• 1:43:15
  So you know what, I'm going to bin this because you know, every
• 1:43:23
  good thing is counted by two bad things, so.
• 1:43:27
  Yeah, Do you remember, Sorry, in Day of the Daleks?
• 1:43:30
  You know when the Daleks are coming out at the end and the
• 1:43:33
  music's going like, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh.
• 1:43:35
  It's really. Exciting.
• 1:43:37
  Imagine if that was the music at the start of this, when they're
• 1:43:39
  going around hunting the mutant, you know?
• 1:43:41
  This needed a Dudley Simpson score.
• 1:43:44
  It really did. It needed some melody and some
• 1:43:47
  beauty and things like that. It would have made the mutants
• 1:43:50
  more sympathetic. So yeah, Bennett.
• 1:43:53
  That's another Blu-ray special feature popping into existence.
• 1:43:57
  We're looking looking for Dudley.
• 1:44:00
  So, Joe, you have got the casting vote.
• 1:44:03
  Come on. Oh my God.
• 1:44:09
  You know, I said there were two poetries I don't like.
• 1:44:14
  Yes, yes. No.
• 1:44:18
  This is one of them. You know, I like it when Doctor
• 1:44:25
  Who does politics and I've seen that there's all the colonialism
• 1:44:28
  and segregation. Part time is also a big hockey
• 1:44:32
  bag. I think we often forget the
• 1:44:34
  influence of the Second World War on Doctor.
• 1:44:37
  You think there's the people who fought in it, the people who
• 1:44:39
  grew up doing it afterwards. The fact that Marshall is this
• 1:44:44
  spitting image of Herman Goering.
• 1:44:47
  Absolutely. You look at a picture of Herman
• 1:44:49
  Goering, You look at picture Mark that absolutely spit.
• 1:44:52
  And I do wonder if that was sort of, you know, and he was you
• 1:44:58
  picture of Herman Goering when he got he got he got really,
• 1:45:01
  really big and he was usually dressed like that, you know, and
• 1:45:05
  you forget about, you know, we sort of think, you know, we
• 1:45:08
  forget what a huge, you know, impact this hadn't you know,
• 1:45:13
  you've got the dark just Nazis and everything mixed in with the
• 1:45:17
  end of colonization and segregation and apartheid.
• 1:45:21
  And I think also Joe has got the most fabulous outfit in this and
• 1:45:27
  the doctor, they both look gorgeous.
• 1:45:30
  Joe's got that lovely. I don't know how to suit.
• 1:45:33
  I think God, if I was about 5 stone small that I could wear
• 1:45:36
  that. But the reason I'm going to put
• 1:45:41
  in there is the problems, typical Bristol boys problems.
• 1:45:48
  They're over ambitious. You can and I can't stand why in
• 1:45:51
  the end, you know, we said Bob Baker and don't work in Wallace
• 1:45:54
  and great animation because he's the sort of ideas that could
• 1:45:57
  work in that way. He needed this sort of, you
• 1:45:59
  know, CSCSI animation sort of thing to cope with everything
• 1:46:04
  that he wants. And that's sort of the problem
• 1:46:07
  is, you know, you've got these regret, they've got these
• 1:46:09
  incredible ideas. But even with Disney money back
• 1:46:15
  then, it was just impossible to realize.
• 1:46:17
  That's where you end up with the sort of not very good sets and
• 1:46:22
  the villagers and the fact, you know, you've got the one Star
• 1:46:25
  Trek village on an entire planet.
• 1:46:28
  You know, a bit like, you know, you now realize that there's
• 1:46:31
  nowhere else on that planet apart from that one tent with
• 1:46:34
  that funny man. It's miserable, doesn't.
• 1:46:36
  It it looks all large, yeah. And what about the penetrating
• 1:46:40
  spaceship at the end of episode 5?
• 1:46:42
  Oh, nearly. Also.
• 1:46:47
  Yeah. Also, the one thing that really
• 1:46:50
  annoys me about This is why the why?
• 1:46:53
  Why do the why do the Time Lords send that hotel chocolate he's
• 1:46:58
  doing? Why do they get involved?
• 1:47:00
  They have been going. They excelled the bloody Doctor
• 1:47:03
  interfering in other people's problems.
• 1:47:06
  Then they shook him off with that big thing, chocolate egg.
• 1:47:10
  I love to Where is the mutant planet to interfere?
• 1:47:13
  I'm like, oh, just plug them off.
• 1:47:15
  You think, no, what are you doing this?
• 1:47:21
  You know, you changed them into patching trout and because you
• 1:47:24
  thought there's an interfering dog, now you're doing it.
• 1:47:26
  Exactly. I'm not going to use the fucking
• 1:47:29
  envelope. I couldn't use the.
• 1:47:30
  Envelope. What is that doesn't mean?
• 1:47:33
  Or you know. And the men think when it is too
• 1:47:39
  long, when the music's horrible and there's some look, the one
• 1:47:44
  thing for me and when they they do the fatal thing in Doctor
• 1:47:47
  Who, which they've done three times, is you get Jeffrey Palmer
• 1:47:51
  in and then you kill him off in about 5 seconds.
• 1:47:54
  Max it's. In his contract.
• 1:47:56
  I know it's in his. Train Club.
• 1:47:58
  That's it 3. Times they do this to him 3.
• 1:48:01
  Times this is. You know why though?
• 1:48:04
  You know why? It's like, I'll do it, but I'll
• 1:48:06
  only do a day. It's a.
• 1:48:08
  Fluffy fucking Mama. You know, the man is a legend
• 1:48:12
  and you bring me three times and you basically kill him off.
• 1:48:16
  But the problem I have with this, and it's a fundamental
• 1:48:19
  problem I have with some dramas, is don't like anybody in this
• 1:48:24
  and I don't care about them at all.
• 1:48:28
  I really don't care. I don't like you know, the
• 1:48:30
  people on the station and the mutants and Kai and Kai all
• 1:48:36
  irritates me. Kai it might be good looking,
• 1:48:38
  but no, but you know, he's like using that and you just think,
• 1:48:50
  Oh, I understand what you're using.
• 1:48:53
  Oh God, you're annoying. He's almost he's almost Adric
• 1:48:57
  annoying. He really is.
• 1:48:58
  I find it that. But The thing is, I can you want
• 1:49:02
  to have sympathy for the people on the planet.
• 1:49:05
  Especially that character. Especially him, and he's
• 1:49:08
  excellent here. I understand hopefully why he's
• 1:49:11
  like that. You know, he's tried fighting
• 1:49:13
  these people, but he kind of bore.
• 1:49:15
  You want the administrator going?
• 1:49:16
  I'm going to keep thought and he's just going shut up and
• 1:49:20
  listen to the man. He's going to give you what you
• 1:49:22
  want. And then the story would have
• 1:49:24
  ended episode 1. I know, yes.
• 1:49:27
  That would have been. That's the bonus as well, you
• 1:49:29
  know. What Kai is, don't you?
• 1:49:31
  Apologies to anybody who's of this persuasion.
• 1:49:35
  He's a vegan, isn't he? My people, My people Always
• 1:49:39
  going on about my fucking people.
• 1:49:42
  No, he's a Just Stop Oil protester.
• 1:49:47
  One of those posh ones. One of the posh ones, you know,
• 1:49:50
  who go and glue their hands to, you know, a classic picture.
• 1:49:53
  He's one of those posh ones and it's just like, you know, but
• 1:49:58
  no. But The thing is, I don't not
• 1:50:00
  don't care about them. I don't care about his plan out.
• 1:50:02
  I don't care about anybody in the station.
• 1:50:04
  And apart from we do like stubs and then, yeah, he gets killed.
• 1:50:08
  He's the only likeable character in the whole situation.
• 1:50:11
  Stop killing off the nice people.
• 1:50:14
  He's only killed the nice but but if you don't, you know, if
• 1:50:18
  you don't care for these people, you don't like them, you don't
• 1:50:22
  really want to sit through 6 episodes to see what's happening
• 1:50:24
  to them. You just think of what both are
• 1:50:29
  really. And it's just like, it's dull.
• 1:50:32
  I don't want Doctor Who to be dull.
• 1:50:34
  I think it can overcome, you know, bad scripts, bad acting,
• 1:50:37
  bad everything. But it's dull.
• 1:50:39
  And now you get to the end of an episode and you think, oh God,
• 1:50:41
  oh God, I'll watch another episode of this.
• 1:50:45
  I've got to watch another episode of this.
• 1:50:47
  And that's that's sort of the biggest sin.
• 1:50:49
  I think anything any drama can do is you just think I don't
• 1:50:53
  like anybody in this. I don't care about anybody in
• 1:50:56
  this. And I really don't, you know,
• 1:50:59
  we've that's it. I just don't want, you know,
• 1:51:03
  nothing connects to me. And I just think, you know,
• 1:51:05
  there's all the other fatal flaws you can say about it.
• 1:51:08
  You know the it's a terrible CSO.
• 1:51:12
  You know the awful costume the music is so I said it's awful.
• 1:51:16
  It is it is puts you on doing exactly yeah, but it's just the
• 1:51:23
  whole you know and yeah, you can fuck right off.
• 1:51:29
  He can just fuck right off. I also like they've written
• 1:51:34
  down, which I have to say is I love how they use bingo dabber
• 1:51:37
  pins in way because the bingo that was off and that's about
• 1:51:41
  the only exciting and that's what you're scraping the bottom
• 1:51:44
  of the barrel of entertainment if that's the only thing you're
• 1:51:47
  in six episodes you find funny so.
• 1:51:51
  You know, there's so many times the Marshall uses Joe as
• 1:51:54
  leverage isn't there for out this story.
• 1:51:57
  I just love it in the middle, though there are things I do
• 1:51:59
  like in the middle where he hasn't got Joe, but he's
• 1:52:03
  pretending that he does. Like fucking find her.
• 1:52:05
  All right, I've been using her as leverage.
• 1:52:08
  Find the girl. I do love his bicycle pump
• 1:52:12
  communicate as well, especially where the way he raises it like
• 1:52:16
  he's so proud of this. Oh, we all love it, really.
• 1:52:22
  Come on, put it through. You know you want to.
• 1:52:24
  Move us on, Rod. Come.
• 1:52:27
  On right, we're back. We've got two stories left to
• 1:52:30
  go. Should I pick the Sea Devils or
• 1:52:34
  the Time Monster? I think I really ought to leave
• 1:52:37
  the Time Monster for one of our guests to discuss because
• 1:52:40
  obviously it's the biggie of the season, isn't it?
• 1:52:43
  So I'm going to discuss the Sea Devils and absolutely, of
• 1:52:49
  course, I'm going to put the Sea Devils through.
• 1:52:52
  So first thing I want to talk about is the Doctor and the
• 1:52:54
  Master, because for me, to quote the Happiness Patrol, they are
• 1:52:58
  two sides, one coin. And I think that's really
• 1:53:01
  starting to become apparent by this, certainly by this story.
• 1:53:06
  I think we're getting a real shift in Season 9 now in the
• 1:53:09
  Doctor and the Master dynamics and relationship.
• 1:53:12
  We've done the James Bond versus the Super villain, we've done
• 1:53:15
  Sherlock Holmes versus Moriarty. We're really now starting to
• 1:53:19
  move into a territory of kind of warmer, cozier, cuddlier, dare I
• 1:53:24
  say, familial type relationship. And for me, watching this, this
• 1:53:27
  is starting to set the path towards Mrs. Redemption that we
• 1:53:31
  get at the end of Cabalde. I think watching this, what
• 1:53:34
  really stands out for me is the number of times you see the
• 1:53:37
  Doctor and the Master and doing the same thing.
• 1:53:39
  They're exhibiting the same traits, the same methods.
• 1:53:42
  Yes, their outcome and their aspirations are different, but
• 1:53:45
  the way they go about things is very, very similar.
• 1:53:48
  So look at Part 1. We don't know how yet, but the
• 1:53:50
  Master has clearly won over Trenchard.
• 1:53:52
  We know it's not by hypnosis, but Trenchard is kind of
• 1:53:55
  operating as his foil, almost as his kind of pseudo companion for
• 1:53:59
  the first part of the story. Meanwhile, the Doctor is openly
• 1:54:03
  bribing the boatsman to take his boat.
• 1:54:05
  He then strolls into Heart's office and takes over.
• 1:54:08
  And I think the way the mirroring of the Doctor Master
• 1:54:11
  is done so deliberately. Just look at that first episode.
• 1:54:15
  Both the Doctor and the Master are working out the mystery of
• 1:54:18
  the missing boats. They're both drawing it on the
• 1:54:20
  map. The Master's being watched by
• 1:54:22
  Trenchard, the Doctor's being watched by Heart.
• 1:54:25
  Those two are both asking the Doctor and the Master the
• 1:54:27
  questions. It's absolutely setting this up
• 1:54:29
  that these two are one and the same as I said, albeit with
• 1:54:33
  different aspirations. The fact they both want the
• 1:54:35
  Masters TARDIS, they can both escape from Earth, they're both
• 1:54:39
  using electronic parts to build gizmos.
• 1:54:42
  They're both seeking an audience later on the story with the Sea
• 1:54:45
  Devils. And when it comes to it, I love
• 1:54:47
  those scenes because you've kind of got the Sea Devil in the
• 1:54:49
  middle and then you've got the doctrine.
• 1:54:51
  The Master, they're like the proverbial Angel and demons sat
• 1:54:53
  on his shoulder whispering to him, trying to tempt him to
• 1:54:56
  their way of thinking. And at various points in the
• 1:54:58
  argument, the Sea Devil kind of signals his allegiance with one
• 1:55:02
  or the other. So we're really seeing them
• 1:55:04
  together. They work together.
• 1:55:05
  The Moroccan Master in Part 6, or rather they kind of work
• 1:55:08
  against each other. They're both condemned to death
• 1:55:11
  by the Sea Devils. They make their escape together,
• 1:55:14
  so they're absolutely too of a kind.
• 1:55:15
  I don't think you could have pushed that relationship an
• 1:55:18
  awful lot further. Obviously real life events took
• 1:55:22
  over, so Delgado disappears from the series, but obviously we
• 1:55:25
  know the aspiration was to write him out anyway.
• 1:55:28
  I think they're becoming so comfortable and familiar with
• 1:55:31
  each other at this stage. You kind of had to do that.
• 1:55:34
  The end had to come between these two because you would end
• 1:55:37
  up not buying them as antagonists for too much longer.
• 1:55:41
  But I love seeing the side of that hair.
• 1:55:43
  Have you? Never had a sandwich during a
• 1:55:44
  sword fight, Rod. Always.
• 1:55:46
  It's the only way to. It's the only way to.
• 1:55:48
  Make you think they're getting casual with each other.
• 1:55:51
  So, yeah, and obviously you turn your back on someone when he's
• 1:55:54
  got a sword or a knife. Of course you do.
• 1:55:56
  We're all good friends around. Here, you'd never turn your back
• 1:55:59
  on me if you were wise. Not if you were waking your
• 1:56:01
  sword at me, no. We've all.
• 1:56:04
  Heard that, Joe? Sorry.
• 1:56:08
  The second reason I'm going to put this through is the lovely
• 1:56:12
  the other lovely Joe. This is Joe Grant, not lovely.
• 1:56:15
  Joe Short. I love Joe in this.
• 1:56:18
  I love Joe throughout this season, but just look at her
• 1:56:21
  here. The first scene with Trenchard,
• 1:56:22
  she walks into Trenchard office, she introduces herself first,
• 1:56:26
  then she introduced the doctor, almost like he's a secondary
• 1:56:28
  character. She's becoming quite a lead.
• 1:56:31
  She's riding a motorbike, she's climbing up a sea fault.
• 1:56:33
  Okay, it's Stuart Fell, but go with it.
• 1:56:36
  It's Joe. She's overpowering burly guards,
• 1:56:39
  she frees the doctor, she knocks another guard out, she up sails
• 1:56:42
  down dunes. And all of this was wearing a
• 1:56:45
  sparkling, pristine white trouser suit and carrying a
• 1:56:48
  handbag. I mean, go girl.
• 1:56:50
  She's fantastic even. Controls the music, you know, a
• 1:56:53
  bit where they're talking through the window and she's
• 1:56:55
  going look, look, look, look, look, look.
• 1:56:58
  Trying to do the plan. And and she drives a helicopter
• 1:57:01
  drive from Riser. What'd you do to her?
• 1:57:02
  What'd you do to a hovercraft? Do you drive her?
• 1:57:05
  Steel. That's.
• 1:57:07
  I think she was just stimulating the soldiers, you know, while
• 1:57:10
  State were driving. I'm sure she was, but Joe, you
• 1:57:13
  mentioned that scene where she where she's miming to the
• 1:57:15
  doctor. That's so partners in Crime,
• 1:57:17
  isn't it, that we see later on and that little bit where she's
• 1:57:20
  miming the guard. So she does the mime of a great
• 1:57:23
  big mustache and she's kind of twirling into either side.
• 1:57:26
  They're so funny, they're so bright, those two together.
• 1:57:29
  So I love Joe in this. She's got so much agency.
• 1:57:32
  And then my third reason is we do not have lumbering monsters.
• 1:57:36
  So we know Doctor Who has plagued with lumbering monsters.
• 1:57:39
  The Ogrons lumbered, God knows the Ice Warriors we've just seen
• 1:57:42
  lumbering through corridors. And probably the worst lumbering
• 1:57:46
  monster of all time is the Sea Devils.
• 1:57:48
  But in worries of the deep when they're absolutely tragic, but
• 1:57:52
  they don't lumber here. And I think the production team
• 1:57:54
  know that and they kind of play with our expectations because
• 1:57:57
  the thing that we think is a creature wandering towards the
• 1:58:00
  doctor and Joe at the Cliff angles.
• 1:58:01
  Episode 1 is actually till from the androids of Tara, so the oil
• 1:58:05
  rig worker. But we're supposed to think
• 1:58:07
  that's that's the sea Devil lumbering slowly along.
• 1:58:10
  So I love that kind of play with that expectations because when
• 1:58:13
  we do see the Sea Devils properly and they're fighting
• 1:58:16
  with the Navy, they're marvellous.
• 1:58:18
  They're really agile, they're dangerous, they're dynamic,
• 1:58:21
  they're running, they're doing flips.
• 1:58:23
  They're just dynamic and quick and fast.
• 1:58:25
  And we do not see enough quick, fast Doctor Who monsters.
• 1:58:29
  You remember in The Caretaker where you were berating Danny
• 1:58:32
  Pink doing this a somersault backwards over the Stobots
• 1:58:36
  Blitzer? I mean these sea devils, man,
• 1:58:38
  they are agile. They die very well.
• 1:58:43
  They die incredibly well, don't they?
• 1:58:45
  And many times they're falling off roofs, they're getting hit
• 1:58:48
  by bullets and spinning. But they're just agile on fast.
• 1:58:51
  They run everywhere. For a Doctor Who monster that's
• 1:58:55
  that's probably rarer than you think it is for that reason.
• 1:58:59
  You love their screams as well. Oh yeah.
• 1:59:01
  How many times have you hit that note?
• 1:59:05
  It depends what's going on at the.
• 1:59:06
  Time. Should we move swiftly on?
• 1:59:10
  So I am absolutely putting the sea devil's through.
• 1:59:14
  Shall we go to our comments? I think I trailed earlier that
• 1:59:16
  Dylan Rees would write a comment of blistering stupidity and we
• 1:59:21
  come to it here, Dylan Reese says.
• 1:59:23
  Utter dull shite rehash of the crap story from season 7.
• 1:59:28
  Unwatchable. Bin it.
• 1:59:31
  OK, well, I'm, I'm, I'm subscribing from Too Hot for TV.
• 1:59:39
  You've lost the listener there. I love him so much.
• 1:59:42
  You can say any old shit like that and I I just can't.
• 1:59:45
  He's so pretty, Nick Prosser says revisiting the themes and
• 1:59:49
  ideas are made. The salaries work so well, but
• 1:59:51
  we've enough differences to keep it fresh.
• 1:59:53
  And the addition of Delgado's master for added intrigue.
• 1:59:57
  And Arnold said. Cliched, but this is my favorite
• 2:00:00
  here, both the avant-garde score and Clive Morton's quite
• 2:00:03
  wonderful turn as the genially incompetent Trenchard.
• 2:00:07
  He is incompetent. Jack Coyer feels more like a
• 2:00:09
  post UNIT story as the Doctor is faced with real world version of
• 2:00:13
  the cozy Saturday tea time setup he's found himself in for the
• 2:00:17
  last four years. A few years.
• 2:00:19
  You can't go wrong with the Hulk story, but the master scheming
• 2:00:22
  and less complexity probably puts this below the Silurians.
• 2:00:26
  Complexicated, Cookie says Iconic.
• 2:00:28
  The Sea Devils are one of the Seminole monsters from Doctor
• 2:00:30
  Who and used brilliantly here. Having Roger back as the Master
• 2:00:33
  is a real treat, and he and John play off each other beautifully.
• 2:00:37
  Dave Rennie says one of the wackiest soundtracks in Who?
• 2:00:44
  But I love it. Delgado is excellent and the Sea
• 2:00:47
  Devils are great. And it looks so expensive.
• 2:00:50
  Michael Stormson's highlights of the season shows that Earth
• 2:00:52
  stories don't have to be bound to unit.
• 2:00:55
  Joe gets more agency and gets to act like a real agent.
• 2:00:58
  The scenes on the forts are atmospheric, with the two
• 2:01:00
  workmen feeling very real. Sea Devil design is iconic.
• 2:01:04
  Keep it. Jason Thompson, I love this.
• 2:01:07
  He did the commentary on this. We've unit out the picture.
• 2:01:09
  The doctor's back to having to convince the local military that
• 2:01:12
  his outlandish stories are true. Delgados on top form also top
• 2:01:17
  marks for marrying the visuals between the location and the
• 2:01:19
  studio so well. James Lark says perfection,
• 2:01:23
  Delgado Perpium Manning at their peak.
• 2:01:25
  Great characters, terrific visuals, verbal and literal
• 2:01:28
  swordplay. Monsters emerging from the sea.
• 2:01:31
  So it's a dumbed down version of the Cylorians, but which are you
• 2:01:34
  going to turn to when you need cheering up?
• 2:01:36
  Glen Fitzgerald. Just awesome action-packed.
• 2:01:39
  Yes there are some silly bits but it's Doctor Who and it
• 2:01:42
  should be fun. Who doesn't want to eat Asani
• 2:01:44
  whilst fighting the Master? Daniel Knight's strongest of the
• 2:01:47
  season. Brilliant direction and great
• 2:01:49
  performances from the regulars. Despite the limitations in the
• 2:01:52
  masks, the Sea Devils are memorable.
• 2:01:55
  David Gillespie Pratt Just lovely and benefits from all the
• 2:01:58
  amazing location work. A real sense of scale that few
• 2:02:01
  Doctor Who stories can ever achieve.
• 2:02:03
  Add to that some of the best Doctor Master exchanges, plus
• 2:02:06
  Joe Grant kicking ass and breaking the Doctor out of
• 2:02:09
  prison. Andy Parkinson's by says.
• 2:02:11
  By far my fave. Everything's great, from the
• 2:02:13
  electronic score to the guest cast.
• 2:02:15
  Of course it's got the greatest master scene when he's watching
• 2:02:18
  the Clangers. Keep it.
• 2:02:20
  Just puppets, you know, for children.
• 2:02:23
  Paul Dunn perfect doesn't drag. Delgado as sublime.
• 2:02:26
  Sea Devils are design genius. The music is, well, different,
• 2:02:30
  and the whole thing benefits from great location filming.
• 2:02:33
  F Blower says some of the best location work ever.
• 2:02:35
  Heart and blithe, a great substitute for you and it and
• 2:02:37
  should have returned. This is peak Delgado.
• 2:02:40
  The brilliant mask designs of the era continue, and I'll even
• 2:02:43
  defend the score, which emphasizes otherworldliness.
• 2:02:47
  Oh Smart Pleasure has a lot of comments for the Sea Devils.
• 2:02:49
  Paul Smy one of my favorite perkways.
• 2:02:52
  The Sea Devils are a great design and when they emerge from
• 2:02:54
  the the water, it's truly memorable.
• 2:02:57
  Gareth Bowley says a vacation from a unit story and helps to
• 2:03:00
  keep it fresh. Thus, how many of us know the
• 2:03:02
  chime of the Sea Devils? A classic.
• 2:03:04
  Go on, do it, everybody. Go on Joe, Multiple Fruit is our
• 2:03:19
  penultimate comment and says a rare dud from Hulk the
• 2:03:23
  Silurians, minus any depth and smeared with one of the most
• 2:03:26
  unpleasant musical store scores ever created.
• 2:03:29
  Smeared. That's an unfortunate virtues.
• 2:03:33
  And finally, Luke Sims Jenkins says Malcolm Clarke shouldn't be
• 2:03:37
  anywhere near musical instruments.
• 2:03:39
  He makes Sea Devils unwatchable. Just watch the Cylorians
• 2:03:43
  instead. Joe Sea Devils.
• 2:03:46
  Yes, I love it. I'll switch, John.
• 2:03:50
  Fight. Come on.
• 2:03:53
  As long as there's grease involved, do you want to go
• 2:03:57
  first? You go first.
• 2:03:58
  Oh. Go first.
• 2:03:58
  Yeah. Oh yes, it's covering through.
• 2:04:03
  It's got good supporting cast. It's really good.
• 2:04:07
  I mean all the characters, I think catching hearts, right?
• 2:04:10
  I mean, you've got blah, you've got Trench third.
• 2:04:12
  He's very much a tragic. He's very tragic.
• 2:04:16
  I love how they're sort of they've got the added bit in the
• 2:04:18
  novelization where they go through, you know, and he has,
• 2:04:23
  you know, the you know, the doctor actually like releases
• 2:04:25
  the sort that he releases that he hadn't.
• 2:04:27
  He was going to fight back, but he hadn't done the thing on his
• 2:04:30
  gun. So there's that extra bit in the
• 2:04:32
  novelization where the doctor actually does it.
• 2:04:37
  So he doesn't even it makes him look better in death.
• 2:04:40
  You know, it wasn't completely useless.
• 2:04:43
  And you know, the you know, we've got the other people,
• 2:04:46
  we've got the little submarine crew, you know, I love the, but,
• 2:04:50
  you know, they're all about like that and the submarine doing all
• 2:04:53
  this submarine stuff. The stunts are great.
• 2:04:56
  I love the stunts. You know, it's like Havoc's last
• 2:04:59
  stands. We've got, you know, see there
• 2:05:01
  was blowing up everywhere. Stuart fell on his great forward
• 2:05:05
  roles, which is hysterically funny, you know, all the
• 2:05:07
  fighting on the beach, you know, so it's it's really, really
• 2:05:11
  action-packed. You know, it's sort of going,
• 2:05:13
  it's very sort of, we haven't really had anything like this
• 2:05:16
  since season 7, which was, you know, you've got the union.
• 2:05:19
  You go back there. It was very sort of, you know,
• 2:05:21
  the stunt oriented and it's the Doctor of master relationship,
• 2:05:25
  you know, the top 4. And so like you, Rod was saying,
• 2:05:29
  you know, you've got them doing anything.
• 2:05:30
  But the thing about the master is they both use people in a
• 2:05:35
  way, but the master, he uses people's weaknesses.
• 2:05:40
  You know, with Trenchard, they say, well, what was his greatest
• 2:05:43
  thing? He was a patriot.
• 2:05:45
  And that's what the that's why the master managers to
• 2:05:47
  manipulate him. He does the whole thing about,
• 2:05:49
  you know, this is a foreign power I'm descending the country
• 2:05:53
  against, you know, the page, you know, understanding against the
• 2:05:57
  evil enemy, you know, and you've got the height of the Cold War
• 2:06:00
  going on. You've got spies everywhere, you
• 2:06:02
  know, Reds under the bed sort of thing.
• 2:06:05
  But the doctor does that in a way.
• 2:06:06
  He uses people's strengths. That's the difference between
• 2:06:11
  them. They both, you know, you said
• 2:06:12
  they have two sides of the same coin, but they both worked on
• 2:06:18
  other people coming from completely different.
• 2:06:20
  I keep putting different angles, you know, the Master is how can
• 2:06:25
  I use you to get my own way? And the Doctor is, well, how can
• 2:06:29
  I, how can you help me to solve this thing?
• 2:06:33
  That's the real difference between them.
• 2:06:35
  You know, the doctor, the Master sees people, anything, any other
• 2:06:39
  person apart from yourself is what can you do for me?
• 2:06:43
  How can I use you and the doctors different?
• 2:06:47
  He goes, you know, I want to try and help you to, you know, to
• 2:06:49
  help me if you're helping me, you know, it's pretty pro quo.
• 2:06:55
  And so that's what I love about it.
• 2:06:56
  And you know, this is I've got very early memories.
• 2:06:59
  I mean, but being very little on the sea devils coming out of the
• 2:07:03
  sea, which is one of those big that's one of those iconic
• 2:07:06
  moments of hope personable perch with I think of all of who
• 2:07:10
  really, you know, so they're wading out of the scene.
• 2:07:13
  You think, Oh God, that's you know, you know, me and Joe, we
• 2:07:17
  both live by the seaside nest happening, you know, get down
• 2:07:21
  the beach one day like this, but.
• 2:07:24
  Grief. It's Stuart Fell coming out of
• 2:07:26
  the sea. You know, with all the crap
• 2:07:31
  being pumped into the sea, I think, you know, God might as
• 2:07:33
  well come out and do so, you know, like, you know, unmutated
• 2:07:36
  things out of the country. I can see why people think I
• 2:07:39
  actually enjoy this better than more than the Salurians, because
• 2:07:42
  I think the Salurians is a very I like the Salurians, but I
• 2:07:46
  enjoy this more because it's a bit more it's a bit more jolly.
• 2:07:51
  One thing so at the series is it's not a bundle of laughs, you
• 2:07:53
  know, and they've got good moments in this.
• 2:07:55
  You know, Joe and Doctor are great and it may be slight bit
• 2:08:02
  too long, but then again, you can say that.
• 2:08:04
  But all the any six parts, I mean sometimes the two parts is
• 2:08:07
  too long doesn't mean. Magician's apprentice and the
• 2:08:14
  witch is familiar. Stop it.
• 2:08:17
  And no, but I want to. Yeah, this can go through
• 2:08:23
  because it's just like, And why people do, you know, Ellen says.
• 2:08:28
  Like, you know, you got everyone says Mel.
• 2:08:30
  Robert Holmes is the best writer.
• 2:08:32
  Doctor Who. For me, it's Malcolm Hulk.
• 2:08:35
  He's up there. You know, they're tied up there.
• 2:08:37
  And he's just like, it's just so much more.
• 2:08:42
  He's like, there's so much more. He writes, you know, he's got
• 2:08:45
  his ideas, but he manages to get, oh, he's in a very opposed
• 2:08:51
  to the Baker Boys who come up with these big ambitious planes
• 2:08:54
  that you can't put on 1970s television.
• 2:08:58
  Malcolm Holt manages to do. He does.
• 2:09:00
  He does it probably because he'd worked with him, you know, such
• 2:09:03
  a close relationship with him and sticks so they could work
• 2:09:05
  together much better. You know, they knew, they worked
• 2:09:09
  together long enough to know what you could put on the
• 2:09:11
  screen. It's not what you wanted to be
• 2:09:14
  able to put in the screen and was in your head.
• 2:09:16
  You have to think about what you can actually put on the screen.
• 2:09:20
  To be fair though, I think he had a bit more money thrown at
• 2:09:23
  this than possible. True, I know, but you had to
• 2:09:25
  basically you well basically because you didn't have to pay
• 2:09:27
  for the Navy, they basically that was completely free.
• 2:09:30
  They basically got that was basically published value.
• 2:09:33
  Massive value on the screen. You know, you can imagine it
• 2:09:35
  would have been, you know, like they wouldn't have had a
• 2:09:37
  hovercraft. It would have been like a couple
• 2:09:38
  of pedal loans going out. So it would have been funny.
• 2:09:43
  Roger Delgado, peddler furiously.
• 2:09:46
  Yeah, exactly that. I mean, yes, you can see that.
• 2:09:49
  No, I can see McCoy doing that like in the summer I got resume.
• 2:09:53
  We just feel best of McCoy doing that now and it won't go away
• 2:09:55
  but. McCoy and body Langford chasing
• 2:09:58
  the Rani, I mean. We all.
• 2:10:02
  Want to see it, don't we? With Kev McCulloch Music.
• 2:10:06
  I want to see that. Yeah, me too.
• 2:10:08
  Oh no. Now we want that animated,
• 2:10:11
  please on this, no, but it's going through so absolutely.
• 2:10:16
  Fabulous PSI PSI can I go? Next, because I'm going to bin
• 2:10:22
  this and I want to give PSI the deciding vote, I want to give
• 2:10:26
  PSI the power. OK.
• 2:10:29
  Oh, look at him. Interesting.
• 2:10:31
  Drunk on power right now, stroking his chin because I
• 2:10:35
  really love this and I think there's a lot of money on the
• 2:10:38
  screen and I think it's a good script and I think the regulars
• 2:10:42
  are great, including Delgado. And I think the characters get
• 2:10:47
  interesting moments. I think Trench are a lot more
• 2:10:50
  interesting than he could have been because you do empathize
• 2:10:54
  with him whilst thinking he's an absolute fucking buffoon.
• 2:10:59
  But this isn't a patch on the Silurians.
• 2:11:03
  And the first time I watched the Silurians, I was absolutely
• 2:11:07
  gripped from the first second to the last.
• 2:11:11
  And the first time I watched this, I turned it off halfway
• 2:11:14
  through. And I was just like, is this
• 2:11:16
  really the same, right, The same era?
• 2:11:18
  And it is a huge indication of where the era has gone from 7:00
• 2:11:23
  to 9:00. We've gone away from more
• 2:11:25
  sophisticated storytelling into more entertaining television.
• 2:11:30
  And that was a smart move because that and it like ensure
• 2:11:33
  the success and continuation of Doctor Who.
• 2:11:37
  But the Siler is is absolutely brilliant.
• 2:11:40
  Joe, can I just ask, you said you turned it off first halfway
• 2:11:43
  through 1st timer. Is that were you judging it on
• 2:11:46
  its own merit, or were you judging it against the Siler?
• 2:11:49
  I was bored the first time I watched it.
• 2:11:51
  It was that sequence where the. Diving Valve.
• 2:11:55
  Yeah, it goes it. Goes on for fucking 10s.
• 2:11:58
  It is that does go on for too long.
• 2:12:00
  This could. Be a very tight 4 passer I
• 2:12:02
  think. And it does.
• 2:12:04
  You know, I do like all the stuff on the submarine.
• 2:12:06
  Man, Fuck me. Donald Sumper looks gorgeous.
• 2:12:11
  What happened? Did you see him in Hell, Ben?
• 2:12:13
  Oh, Donald. Ice cream on, mate.
• 2:12:17
  It's. Called age.
• 2:12:18
  It's aging love. It will happen to you.
• 2:12:20
  So what you mean 44? What are you talking about?
• 2:12:23
  I am aging. Oh, I'm so sorry about.
• 2:12:27
  That where was I? So basically my three reasons
• 2:12:32
  are comparisons to the Sea Devils and where I think this
• 2:12:34
  goes wrong. Yeah, that Walker I think is an
• 2:12:37
  absolutely ridiculous cartoon character.
• 2:12:40
  I don't buy him for a second. Whereas I found Jeffrey Palmer
• 2:12:44
  in the Silurians a thoroughly believable, charismatic
• 2:12:50
  character where he comes in in the Silurians and basically
• 2:12:52
  threatens Peter Miles. It's just Razor H Telly watching
• 2:12:58
  that. Whereas he's just there to get
• 2:13:00
  in the way and create a, a very simple solution to the story.
• 2:13:06
  You know, the weapons that we're going to use to wipe the Sea
• 2:13:08
  Devils out. So the characterization is good,
• 2:13:10
  but it's in no way as interesting as it was.
• 2:13:14
  My second thing is the Sea Devils, they lack the nuance and
• 2:13:17
  the character of the Silurians. I genuinely felt I was seeing a
• 2:13:21
  civilization in the Silurians with sort of people that were
• 2:13:25
  that the old one and the young one, they're, they're fighting,
• 2:13:28
  they've got different ideas of the future.
• 2:13:30
  There's nice people, there's bad people.
• 2:13:33
  There's a tiny bit of it in five and six with the sea Devil
• 2:13:37
  leader who sort of, you know, oh, he says man is good, he says
• 2:13:40
  man is evil. Again, it's boiling it down to
• 2:13:43
  primary colours. Whereas we had a beautiful
• 2:13:46
  watercolour over there in the Silurians.
• 2:13:51
  And last time I, I like the fact that both sides were the threat
• 2:13:57
  in the Silurians, both the humans and the Silurians.
• 2:14:01
  Obviously there was a virus and there was the military presence
• 2:14:04
  of the humans and it was the doctor trying to negotiate
• 2:14:06
  between the middle. And they do try and do that
• 2:14:08
  here. But unfortunately, because
• 2:14:11
  Walker's there, it's just the humans are twats basically.
• 2:14:14
  And he's got to try and save the sea devils.
• 2:14:17
  And because they're not being painted in interesting colours,
• 2:14:19
  you're like, oh, well, never mind.
• 2:14:21
  It's just a lot of turtles. Who cares if they're floating in
• 2:14:23
  the sea dead? I quite like turtle soup, yeah.
• 2:14:27
  So I just think in comparison. To the to the Silurians, this
• 2:14:32
  is. Really fun, but it it's less
• 2:14:36
  interesting television. I think that's aiming really
• 2:14:39
  high. This is aiming more obviously.
• 2:14:43
  So I want to bin it in spite the fact that I find it very
• 2:14:46
  enjoyable. That's my choice.
• 2:14:49
  Wow, one a piece. Sigh.
• 2:14:51
  You have. You have the power.
• 2:14:53
  I do and I'm going to. I'm going to agree with Joe.
• 2:15:00
  Which Joe? Which Joe?
• 2:15:06
  The prat or the lovely? Well.
• 2:15:12
  There's so many good things in this story, so many things to
• 2:15:15
  love. I he's.
• 2:15:17
  Been in there? Quite right.
• 2:15:18
  I've got to say, Captain Heart, my namesake Edwin Richfield is
• 2:15:23
  absolute magnificent. He's he gives a really great
• 2:15:28
  world weary. I'm not having any of this
• 2:15:31
  nonsense performance the like of which we haven't seen in Doctor
• 2:15:35
  Who for quite some time. That's brilliant.
• 2:15:38
  And the whole Navy thing and the action is brilliant.
• 2:15:42
  But my God, this is a boring story.
• 2:15:47
  All of the things that are great about this story are in the
• 2:15:51
  novelisation, and the novelisation is really strong.
• 2:15:55
  And that I think is why it's so fondly remembered more than
• 2:15:59
  anything else. I think a whole generation grew
• 2:16:02
  up loving this because of that. The Sea Devils coming out of the
• 2:16:05
  sea is a great cliffhanger, but it's not actually that well
• 2:16:11
  filmed. It's a good image, but compare
• 2:16:14
  that to what a long? Shot.
• 2:16:16
  Isn't it just a long shot? Compare that to the monsters
• 2:16:18
  coming out of the swamp in full circle, which is beautiful and
• 2:16:23
  slow motion with beautiful music.
• 2:16:26
  That's scary. That's terrifying.
• 2:16:29
  This is just puppy pops. Wonderful, you know.
• 2:16:34
  Stuart. Fells out.
• 2:16:37
  I love Michael E Bryant. I think he is the director of
• 2:16:40
  this this era. He's the best of the best.
• 2:16:44
  But this is over directed. All those Dutch angles to try
• 2:16:48
  and get some kind of interest in that boring sea Fort set.
• 2:16:53
  It's it's jarring and with that and the music, it feels really
• 2:16:57
  alienating, but not in a good way.
• 2:16:59
  It doesn't feel stylish. It just feels like it's showy
• 2:17:02
  and he's not generally a showy director.
• 2:17:05
  And Joe, I have to agree. My basic argument was going to
• 2:17:08
  be in the Silurians, the Doctor is outraged by the death of the
• 2:17:13
  Silurians. And here there is no remorse
• 2:17:17
  from the Doctor whatsoever at all.
• 2:17:19
  The Sea Devil deaths, he's quite happy for their base to be blown
• 2:17:23
  up at the end. He has no comment on that.
• 2:17:26
  And yet that is the crux of the story that continues on into the
• 2:17:30
  next story because he's so angry about it.
• 2:17:33
  But this, you're quite right. The whole argument about man
• 2:17:36
  versus reptile has been boiled down to, he says it's good, he
• 2:17:40
  says it's bad. I don't know which way to go.
• 2:17:43
  The Sea Devils have no character.
• 2:17:45
  They're just one. They've got one focal point.
• 2:17:50
  There's no nuance here at all. This doesn't feel like a
• 2:17:53
  civilization. This feels like a backward step
• 2:17:55
  to the early days of Doctor Who where one race has one whole
• 2:17:59
  viewpoint. This could be the void, you
• 2:18:02
  know, this could be, this could be anything from sort of
• 2:18:07
  Hartnell and Trout and ERA. Really.
• 2:18:09
  There's there's no nuance to this story at all.
• 2:18:11
  And I find that really disgraceful after the Silurians
• 2:18:15
  was so moral and had so much to say.
• 2:18:19
  It's it's absolutely an inferior sequel.
• 2:18:23
  That's it's better made in in most ways.
• 2:18:26
  And and it's it's more enjoyable probably to watch overall if
• 2:18:30
  you're a kid. But I've never really liked this
• 2:18:34
  story and I've never really got why it's so loved.
• 2:18:37
  So sorry in the bin. You know?
• 2:18:40
  Well, the trouble is right, It's because they're serving up
• 2:18:42
  turtle soup in the club with Tubby Rollins, you know?
• 2:18:45
  You know. Exactly, he's just saying he's
• 2:18:48
  just exact good. That's Palomar me for life.
• 2:18:51
  Exactly, the doctor was there with a big neck going oh they're
• 2:18:54
  going to love me. Free admission for another year
• 2:18:57
  at the club. In that.
• 2:18:59
  Hovercraft back to the hovercraft goes on scooping.
• 2:19:09
  It is. So yeah, sorry.
• 2:19:13
  Classic. I don't think so.
• 2:19:15
  So strictly kills yet another classic, because that's usually
• 2:19:18
  the season poll winner. 1st. Yeah, second to go, right.
• 2:19:22
  So we are left with the season finale, the finale to end all
• 2:19:27
  finale is the time monster, Sir, You're going to have to take it
• 2:19:30
  first because Joe got the first last time round.
• 2:19:32
  Go for it. OK, so it's January 1972 and
• 2:19:38
  your Terrance sticks in the Doctor Who production office and
• 2:19:41
  you're thinking, well, look, this all going to be great.
• 2:19:45
  Barry's coming in with a new. Bowie, Bowie, Bowie is coming.
• 2:19:49
  In with a new script. Last year it was the sensation
• 2:19:52
  of the season. Oh, I'm going to have a few
• 2:19:54
  weeks off, it'd be fine. And then script to the time
• 2:19:58
  Monster bangs down in all its six episode glory on your desk.
• 2:20:04
  And you're there thinking, oh shit, this is my boss, What the
• 2:20:10
  fuck am I going to say about this?
• 2:20:12
  Well, just let it through. And you know, this is absolutely
• 2:20:18
  that anecdote. Terrence Dick says that all we
• 2:20:21
  wanted to do was get 25 minutes of TV on the screen and not have
• 2:20:26
  the test card on. This is the epitome of that.
• 2:20:30
  Or fucking do Doctor Who. This story is a fucking mess.
• 2:20:36
  This story Terrance sticks, even comments on it in the
• 2:20:39
  novelization. The very last line of the
• 2:20:41
  novelization features Benton saying, oh, and what?
• 2:20:46
  What's been going on? And everyone laughing and the
• 2:20:48
  Doctor's turning around and saying and that thought the
• 2:20:50
  Doctor was a very good question. We have steps episode.
• 2:20:56
  Are you for real? Is that the last line?
• 2:20:58
  Oh yes, we have sticks episode of meandering plotless stupidity
• 2:21:08
  on the screen. Here we've got Tom tits which
• 2:21:12
  every episode does something completely different just to
• 2:21:16
  extend the scenes outfit. So let's see.
• 2:21:19
  First of all, it slows time down.
• 2:21:23
  Next week it makes people old, next week it makes people young.
• 2:21:29
  The week after it's can magically transport things from
• 2:21:33
  outside of their time. And that's before it's even
• 2:21:38
  brought Kronos and the crystal to to to England and before they
• 2:21:43
  even get to Atlantis. So many things happen in this
• 2:21:47
  story. Just because they need to keep
• 2:21:49
  the story going, the Doctor spends 20 minutes building a
• 2:21:53
  stupid machine out of stupid things that you can find in your
• 2:21:57
  kitchen, clocks it together, and the first thing it does is
• 2:22:02
  explode and said, oh, well, that's that.
• 2:22:05
  And Joe is building this brilliant thing in his room
• 2:22:08
  right now, and so is Joe. A hamster on a Dalek doesn't
• 2:22:14
  quite have the same. That's my time flow analogue,
• 2:22:19
  all right. Then.
• 2:22:22
  You get a whole episode of padding with the Doctor and the
• 2:22:25
  Master assholing, to quote Stephen arseholing at each other
• 2:22:33
  in the biggest asshole than you look what I can do for God's
• 2:22:40
  sake. It's so smug and tedious, the
• 2:22:43
  Discontinuity Guide says of this story.
• 2:22:46
  The cast are having great fun all the way through this.
• 2:22:49
  It's a shame they didn't bring the audience with them.
• 2:22:52
  And it's absolutely true, Joe. Shawn looks like she's going to
• 2:22:57
  murder you any minute. Joe Grant, after all the hard
• 2:23:02
  work they have done on her character, is reduced to someone
• 2:23:05
  who'd say, oh, it's a real Pippin of a dream.
• 2:23:08
  And I know I'm exceptionally dim signed.
• 2:23:12
  And and that, How about curses? Foiled again.
• 2:23:17
  I love that. It's dreadful.
• 2:23:21
  I don't know what the dialogue they they thought she, how they
• 2:23:25
  thought she spoke because they haven't paid attention to any
• 2:23:28
  other story that she's in. This producer.
• 2:23:31
  Exactly. And people say, oh, Barry, let's
• 2:23:34
  always a great writer. The seeds of the curse of the
• 2:23:39
  paradise of death and the ghost of in space are seeded in this
• 2:23:42
  story. This is.
• 2:23:45
  In in Planet of the Daleks commentary she goes, I can't
• 2:23:48
  remember which one it is, but in one of these scripts they had me
• 2:23:51
  saying groovy and all of this stuff and Barry, let's don't say
• 2:23:56
  a word for 5 minutes, no commentary.
• 2:23:59
  And she cut and she asked to cut loads of her dialogue out.
• 2:24:01
  She kept one groovy. She got she cut loads of hours.
• 2:24:05
  Yeah, so let's say you've also got Doctor Ruth Ingram, who's
• 2:24:10
  Doctor Who's first women's libber.
• 2:24:14
  How could you tell? Because, because she tells you
• 2:24:17
  every 5 minutes, except for the moments where she turns around
• 2:24:20
  and said, oh, don't be nasty to me, Stu.
• 2:24:22
  I think I might cry. Like a true women's Libber.
• 2:24:27
  She falls at the first hurdle. You've got Delgado, who is
• 2:24:31
  normally really, really good. Anything goes, you know,
• 2:24:38
  Absolutely. It's terrible.
• 2:24:41
  So yeah, I am binning this. And I'm sure I will have more to
• 2:24:45
  say as we go all the way through because there's a whole lot more
• 2:24:49
  that is completely wrong with this story.
• 2:24:51
  But this is not a favorite. And Daniel Knight, everything
• 2:24:55
  you've ever said about this story, I completely agree.
• 2:25:00
  So excite, I do. I do really like the scene where
• 2:25:03
  they're going down, they're driving in Bessie and Joe Grant
• 2:25:06
  saying, oh, it's a do me old day, isn't it?
• 2:25:09
  Just look at that sky. Just look at it.
• 2:25:11
  Oh, oh, and I haven't even got to the moment of charm.
• 2:25:15
  The moment of charm is beautiful and lovely, but I can never get
• 2:25:18
  past my ex who when we watched this the first time together,
• 2:25:23
  said turned around in a Joe voice and said, and the doctor
• 2:25:27
  says, oh, it says, how do you feel now, Joe?
• 2:25:29
  He said, oh, now I'm frightened and bored.
• 2:25:37
  So yeah. Oh yeah, the the Atlanta scenes
• 2:25:41
  are really stagey and dreary as well.
• 2:25:44
  So sorry. This is one of my least favorite
• 2:25:47
  stories in the whole of Doctor Who.
• 2:25:49
  So are you are you putting this through or not?
• 2:25:51
  Because I'm not quite sure I. Have to say.
• 2:25:56
  So that was the strictly strictly rant I've ever heard.
• 2:26:03
  Shall we go to the comments? And of course, I put lovely
• 2:26:07
  Daniel Knight as. The first of all.
• 2:26:10
  A voice of sanity. Joe, Lovely Joe Short nemesis.
• 2:26:15
  He's been very restrained for Daniel, actually, Daniel says
• 2:26:18
  it's a badge of honour that Ian Levine once said to me.
• 2:26:21
  He pitied me for saying the time monster is crap, but it's a
• 2:26:24
  hill. But it's a hill I'll stand on.
• 2:26:27
  It's terrible. It reminds me of my auntie
• 2:26:30
  saying about my homemade chicken biryani.
• 2:26:33
  I won't have any, but I'm sure others might enjoy it.
• 2:26:39
  Oh, I love chicken. Biryani, yeah.
• 2:26:41
  But maybe not Daniels. Well, no.
• 2:26:44
  If he made Sea Devil Biryani, I might have it you.
• 2:26:46
  Know well by some of. His is a bit biryani is biryani.
• 2:26:52
  How much leverage can we get out of that?
• 2:26:54
  Line. Jim Allenby.
• 2:26:57
  But it's not in accordance with you, I'm afraid.
• 2:26:59
  That says the story is all over the place and the Masters accent
• 2:27:02
  is terrible, but it's a hell of a lot of fun.
• 2:27:05
  Moving the story across locations helps.
• 2:27:07
  The six part format +2 words here.
• 2:27:11
  Ingrid Pier. Well, it is the 70s.
• 2:27:19
  You're Dave Rennie says bad shit crazy with a dollop of Tom tits.
• 2:27:25
  Far too much going on from the time shifts.
• 2:27:27
  Atlantis, a big flopping God thing and two crystals or
• 2:27:31
  something. John Arnold wonderfully says.
• 2:27:34
  I adore it. It's the master story, and
• 2:27:37
  Delgado holds together a sprawling story with sheer
• 2:27:40
  personality. All Smice's bonkers, baffling
• 2:27:44
  and strange. Too many ideas.
• 2:27:46
  Atlantis looks awful. Oh, here he is.
• 2:27:49
  Now remember, this is the defender of Nightmare and Silver
• 2:27:53
  as the best Cyberman story ever, Michael Storm says, a cringy low
• 2:27:59
  with this embarrassing pile of wicked shit.
• 2:28:01
  Terrible on every level. It's telling how bad a story is
• 2:28:05
  when the best thing in it is Ingrid Pitt's NOx.
• 2:28:11
  That's a very 70s word. Very 70s.
• 2:28:16
  How? Old is Michael Stall. 13 by the
• 2:28:20
  sound of it. James Lark says rubbish.
• 2:28:24
  I don't even get why some people afford it's so bad.
• 2:28:27
  It's fun status. Aside from the surely not
• 2:28:30
  accidental stream of pure filth that's Part 1, it's mostly just
• 2:28:34
  boring and possibly Delgado's worst performance.
• 2:28:38
  Stupid end to an otherwise fine season.
• 2:28:40
  We got a slingshot from one opinion to another.
• 2:28:43
  End. Complexicated cookie high camp
• 2:28:46
  from start to finish and all the better for it.
• 2:28:49
  Great guest cast. Delgado on top form again, James
• 2:28:52
  blog and a nice little trip to Atlantis.
• 2:28:55
  I mean it's got something called Tomtit and Darth Vader as the
• 2:28:59
  miners whore. You can't ask them more than
• 2:29:01
  that. Like Chris says, a proper laugh
• 2:29:03
  to end the season. A pantomimer.
• 2:29:05
  All our favorites turn up to perform one last party piece,
• 2:29:09
  showing signs of the year. It's stumbling and stalling,
• 2:29:11
  needing the refresh that will come next year.
• 2:29:14
  But if it's consumed as two episodes by two by two rather
• 2:29:17
  than a six part epic, it can be quite enjoyable.
• 2:29:20
  I have to say I did enjoy Jack and Stephen gainfully trying to
• 2:29:26
  defend this story. Jack's asides were absolutely
• 2:29:30
  fantastic throughout that. You'll be pleased to know his
• 2:29:34
  recording time lash in a couple of.
• 2:29:36
  Weeks. We will all be departing with a
• 2:29:40
  scream. After such a success with this
• 2:29:43
  Turkey, I've had to give him another one.
• 2:29:45
  Another one, Dylan Reece, who as you recall, said that the Sea
• 2:29:49
  Devils was unwatchable, says Fan.
• 2:29:56
  Fun camp nonsense, terrible direction.
• 2:29:59
  I love it, but I it should probably be bins.
• 2:30:03
  He's subscribing to. Things move quickly.
• 2:30:13
  Luke Sims Jenkins, which way will he go?
• 2:30:16
  Luke Sims Jenkins says this can go too.
• 2:30:19
  There are some good ideas if you look under the boring and
• 2:30:22
  ridiculous. Has to be the worst season
• 2:30:24
  finale of Classic Who? Oh I can't believe this comment
• 2:30:28
  from Dan Hollingsworth. I mean I should after all those
• 2:30:31
  double entendres he brought when he came into.
• 2:30:33
  This. But here we go, regarded as the
• 2:30:36
  clunker of the season. But anything that has a smutty
• 2:30:40
  acronym, entertaining science characters and John Levine in a
• 2:30:45
  nappy surely makes the music the Atlanta story.
• 2:30:49
  He gets one more in there his pants though.
• 2:30:53
  You did that, Jason Thompson says.
• 2:30:55
  A big epic finale without the budget to meet the requirements.
• 2:31:00
  But it's fun, the endings of Fudge, when the greatest monster
• 2:31:03
  of all is actually quite nice, and the notion of Kronos knowing
• 2:31:06
  the Doctor is an intriguing moment.
• 2:31:08
  That's that's that is then entirely ignored.
• 2:31:11
  A name I don't recognize. So hello, Greg Boswell.
• 2:31:15
  I've never understood why this gets such bad press.
• 2:31:17
  You've got a TARDIS. We've been a TARDIS.
• 2:31:19
  Ingrid Pitt and Baby Benson camp, certainly.
• 2:31:22
  But it's also kind of glorious. Matt Lee Newby says let's most
• 2:31:26
  enjoyable finale, which gets a lot of unfair criticism.
• 2:31:30
  Not only does it feature Poke, his first adventure in history,
• 2:31:33
  and some absolutely gorgeous film work, there's also a
• 2:31:35
  cliffhanger where it looks as though they've killed off Mike
• 2:31:38
  Yates and Ingrid bleeding. Pitt is the guest.
• 2:31:41
  Star Yes, it can get silly, but it's the fun end of season romp
• 2:31:46
  that's needed. Here it is.
• 2:31:50
  Big, big orange, orange. Michael.
• 2:31:55
  Michael. What a chomp tit, says Bruce.
• 2:31:59
  The master didn't wait until he was played by Anthony Ailey to
• 2:32:02
  come up with schemes that make no sense.
• 2:32:05
  The character moments are really good.
• 2:32:07
  Pertwyre Manning in the daisiest Daisy scene almost redeem it.
• 2:32:10
  Keep that, but bin the rest. Dame says the undisputed queen
• 2:32:15
  of this series. It's got everything you could
• 2:32:18
  possibly want. Sassy female scientist Ingrid
• 2:32:21
  vamping for her life. Slo MO Brigadier time Ram
• 2:32:25
  Daisiest Daisy naked Benton War Benton briefly outwitting the
• 2:32:30
  master Flappy Bird. I mean James, you were doing
• 2:32:34
  well there till you said naked Benton.
• 2:32:38
  Oh I'm so sorry. He just spell his name, the
• 2:32:41
  jaded husk say. So a.
• 2:32:44
  Bit of the Thai monster. An utter mess in every possible
• 2:32:49
  way. All done very succinctly.
• 2:32:52
  Just says it's shit. And finally, at the end of this
• 2:32:58
  myriad of opinions on the Thai Monster, beble, Pete says in the
• 2:33:03
  name of Kronos. Why do you hate fun?
• 2:33:06
  Sigh. It doesn't say sigh.
• 2:33:10
  God bless the good ship, Thai monster and all who's sailing.
• 2:33:16
  You've been down, Joe. We've done it, we've done it,
• 2:33:20
  we've done it. We've.
• 2:33:20
  Done it. You want to stop me enjoying
• 2:33:24
  this immensely satisfying cereal?
• 2:33:27
  Try, he says. Well, I did.
• 2:33:31
  I think we ought to go to the lovely Joe.
• 2:33:34
  Shorts, Steve. Does she agree with PSI?
• 2:33:37
  She's tying up her hair. She is got boxing gloves on.
• 2:33:43
  Oh, I'm going to get spare down the camera there.
• 2:33:46
  Nap in it. I'm joking.
• 2:33:53
  Go full Ingrid pit on him. You might take my eyes out.
• 2:34:00
  It's lonely love. I think everyone knows like I
• 2:34:06
  love this. I can recognise all its faults
• 2:34:09
  and everything you know, I can recognise that everything is
• 2:34:13
  wrong with that. My name is Daniel Knight and I
• 2:34:18
  if Joe knows this story because he told its women Strangers from
• 2:34:21
  space go back to 8 for the first this year on Twitter, certain
• 2:34:29
  Daniel Knight suddenly tweets with me and goes I changed my
• 2:34:33
  mind about the time once really like I went changed your mind.
• 2:34:36
  Then goes look at the date, Joe and I think you're bastard.
• 2:34:42
  There's not any this you know often they say about the
• 2:34:47
  spiders. Well, they sort of we've got
• 2:34:49
  everything that we ever had with the poetry season.
• 2:34:51
  We're going to bung it in that there's a big celebration.
• 2:34:54
  This is the Perchuest Perchui story.
• 2:34:57
  Of them all very good. This is it's got everything that
• 2:35:02
  I love about the Perchuis and the classic season.
• 2:35:07
  It's got the unit, it's got unit, it's got the master.
• 2:35:11
  It's got ridiculous civil servants, it's got ridiculous
• 2:35:15
  grudges. It's got time travel.
• 2:35:17
  It's got superstition and faith and religion.
• 2:35:19
  It's not scientists. It's got CSO, he's got dodgy
• 2:35:23
  monsters, he's got gun battles, Terry Walsh, you've got Snow.
• 2:35:29
  My big idea. He's got Bessie, he's got
• 2:35:32
  Masters TARDIS, he's got Time Ram and he's got Benton and a
• 2:35:37
  nappy. I mean, what more could you
• 2:35:40
  possibly want from a season? Could say then.
• 2:35:45
  OK, that's a bit much. Joe, that's a bit much.
• 2:35:50
  Then you've got your 6 episodes we could have.
• 2:35:53
  Fun. With that, you know I.
• 2:35:54
  Stretch it all out. I recognise that this, you know,
• 2:35:58
  I can understand why people really, really don't like this.
• 2:36:01
  I honestly do that. But then again, you have lovely
• 2:36:04
  things like the daisiest Daisy speech, which is dutiful,
• 2:36:08
  probably one of the best bit of acting John poetry does in the
• 2:36:11
  whole series. It's beautiful.
• 2:36:14
  And you've got the foreshadowing to what happens in Planet of the
• 2:36:17
  Spiders. This is a lot of ridiculous old
• 2:36:20
  tosh and I understand, but it's so much fun.
• 2:36:27
  It's just enjoyable old Tosh. You know, the you know, this
• 2:36:30
  terrible stereotypes and you know, you got Ruth and Stu of a
• 2:36:36
  very odd relationship. I don't really know what's going
• 2:36:38
  on there, You know, are they glad them and sister, are they
• 2:36:40
  not? I don't know what's going on so.
• 2:36:43
  It's 70s, I don't think it matters either.
• 2:36:45
  Way I don't think it matters. There's definitely Pampas for
• 2:36:47
  asking keys on the table going on there.
• 2:36:49
  I know so. But again.
• 2:36:52
  And then there's the one thing Forget Ian and Barbara.
• 2:36:57
  Forget Altos and Sabisa. Forget the 13th Dos Malignez,
• 2:37:02
  Roger Delgado Ingrid pair are the sexiest in Doctor Who.
• 2:37:09
  Sizzle. Don't.
• 2:37:10
  They I'm surprised Atlantis doesn't burn down all the heat
• 2:37:14
  that's going on there. You can see her.
• 2:37:16
  Nipples tingling. Can't you one one?
• 2:37:20
  He is a gorgeous Rogers are gorgeous was gorgeous.
• 2:37:23
  There was just something about that man.
• 2:37:25
  It's just that you walk in, you think, Oh my God, but when he,
• 2:37:28
  you know she and he goes, he has a bearing.
• 2:37:31
  Oh, for God, you think, my God, yes, I know.
• 2:37:34
  She's only had like what? She's miserable old king and
• 2:37:37
  that terrible old one with a eyeliner who is the wettest
• 2:37:41
  thing ever. You talk about other, but he is
• 2:37:42
  the wettest lettuce in the entire universe.
• 2:37:46
  Forgive me, Joe. I loved Galaya once.
• 2:37:49
  You might have loved it. Made your shot.
• 2:37:53
  I mistook you for a podcaster I knew once.
• 2:37:57
  But they, they are the sexiest couple in Doctor Who ever.
• 2:38:02
  You know, Sod Rosen, the Doctor. I saw them.
• 2:38:05
  Yeah, they're not. They are just incredibly sexy,
• 2:38:08
  you know, I mean, you don't get that sort of thing.
• 2:38:11
  But I ain't just sizzle. You remember when he was?
• 2:38:14
  You remember the bit where he goes to her?
• 2:38:16
  You should learn to obey me. And she goes what, like sub
• 2:38:19
  servant girl? I'm a queen you bitch.
• 2:38:23
  And walks off. And he's like.
• 2:38:27
  How many times have you used that line, Joe?
• 2:38:29
  I'm a queen. Quite a few.
• 2:38:36
  But I love that as well because then you get him, you know, he's
• 2:38:38
  a typical master scheme, which is absolute bollocks and God
• 2:38:42
  knows what's going on. And then right at the end, you
• 2:38:45
  just said I'll be. Please forgive me.
• 2:38:47
  And then why they're doing that, Just bug it off you.
• 2:38:49
  Yeah, that's a very Anthony Angry sort of thing, you know?
• 2:38:53
  Give me. But I love this.
• 2:38:57
  I honestly honest shame I didn't love this.
• 2:39:00
  I know it's not going to. If it wins, I will probably die
• 2:39:05
  of shock, but I love this. I understand why people don't
• 2:39:09
  like it. I'm actually very pleased with
• 2:39:11
  how much love it's got because I just thought this was going to
• 2:39:13
  get completely. By.
• 2:39:15
  Everybody I can, I love it, despite everything.
• 2:39:22
  Well, let's go to Joe. Do you love the Time Monster?
• 2:39:25
  I'm really sorry. No, I.
• 2:39:28
  Know I expected this so. Oh, it's such a dog, isn't it,
• 2:39:32
  I? Mean it really is.
• 2:39:34
  Hopelessly confused with three-part ones that Jack Coyer
• 2:39:39
  managed to identify as we went through sort of a failed attempt
• 2:39:43
  to attack time as a concept and a total failure to depict
• 2:39:48
  Atlantis and like. My three points are very simply
• 2:39:55
  parts. One to three is my first point,
• 2:39:57
  which is so relaxed you'd be forgiven for thinking this was
• 2:40:01
  like Doctor Who, the sitcom, you know.
• 2:40:04
  Oh, my God. Who's going to go with me to
• 2:40:06
  this scientific institute? Everyone's tied up here at UNIT.
• 2:40:10
  Oh, hello, Sir. I'm just off for my holes.
• 2:40:17
  Oh, boy. Oh, boy.
• 2:40:19
  Yeah. So.
• 2:40:21
  There is a general lack of drama in the first 3 episodes,
• 2:40:24
  although the bit where Stuart Hyde comes out the screen and
• 2:40:28
  goes. Grown up, it's.
• 2:40:30
  Very funny. My second thing is the very
• 2:40:33
  confused part 4, which feels very cheap because it's all set
• 2:40:38
  in the Tardises, but they've built that fucking ugly set, so
• 2:40:42
  they're gonna use it all right. So they and the doctor talking
• 2:40:45
  backwards is just oh, it's the it's the nadir of the era.
• 2:40:53
  Like you play it backwards, right if you.
• 2:40:55
  Play so forward. Just then he goes.
• 2:40:57
  I really love the time monster. Please.
• 2:41:00
  Put it through. I think he said, will Joe ever
• 2:41:04
  shut up? You know, And my last point is
• 2:41:07
  the Oakley theatrical period drama that is five and six, you
• 2:41:10
  know, where suddenly we're very Open University Shakespeare,
• 2:41:15
  right down to the performances, the sets, the dialogue and the
• 2:41:18
  costumes. I mean, so many, so many
• 2:41:22
  problems. But of course, I'm putting this
• 2:41:25
  through. Are you people mad?
• 2:41:28
  I mean, it is just shite on every conceivable level.
• 2:41:34
  But so is the horns of nylon, so is time and the Rani, so is the
• 2:41:37
  chase. I mean, it's just delirious to
• 2:41:41
  watch everything. It's like spinning all the
• 2:41:43
  plates and watching them all come crashing down literally
• 2:41:47
  when Atlantis is being destroyed and someone's throwing the
• 2:41:50
  crockery from the BBC canteen into that dreadful long shot.
• 2:41:54
  I mean, it is bad and it is, but people are trying perhaps as
• 2:41:59
  hard as they could have done. And Paul Bernard certainly
• 2:42:02
  directs better elsewhere and Barry let's certainly writes
• 2:42:05
  better elsewhere and everyone gets better characterization
• 2:42:08
  elsewhere. But you know, it's quite unit
• 2:42:12
  versus Roundheads, for God's sakes.
• 2:42:14
  You know, I've put it through for that alone.
• 2:42:16
  I mean, they nearly killed off Mike Yates.
• 2:42:18
  Hurrah, Mike. It's truly dismal.
• 2:42:23
  And sorry James Lark, but this absolutely goes into the so Bad
• 2:42:27
  It's good category. It's camp and glorious and yeah,
• 2:42:33
  really shit. Rod, over to you.
• 2:42:36
  OK, Sorry Joe Short, I'm so spoiled for negatives here.
• 2:42:42
  Three things. I've got to pick 3 negatives.
• 2:42:44
  That's all I'm allowed. So I told you.
• 2:42:47
  Do I go for the bad acting? I mean, Ian Collier's acting is
• 2:42:51
  terrible, but he's nowhere near as bad as Aiden Murphy's
• 2:42:54
  Hippies, which these guys have produced fantastic impressions
• 2:42:58
  of. The direction.
• 2:43:00
  Direction is so bad. That is the least exciting
• 2:43:02
  battle in Part 3, Unit versus Roundheads.
• 2:43:05
  It's so uninspiring, it's so dull, you don't even get the
• 2:43:09
  senses of battle going on. Then in Part 6, you've got that
• 2:43:13
  fight with the Minotaur. You don't even really realise
• 2:43:16
  Hippius has died because he kind of dies off stage and then the
• 2:43:19
  Minotaur just runs into a wall which falls through and dies.
• 2:43:23
  It's. Foil.
• 2:43:25
  It's Tinfoil. He's just had enough by some of
• 2:43:30
  the worst. How bad his eyesight is, you
• 2:43:32
  know? He's also very flimsy.
• 2:43:38
  Dave Brass is like the wasn't that the contract for Star Wars?
• 2:43:41
  Is there an arm off? Better tinfoil kills off the
• 2:43:44
  minds or some of the worst padding.
• 2:43:47
  And the one thing that is absolutely reprehensible is the
• 2:43:51
  way that Joe at the beginning of episode 5 just flicks a switch
• 2:43:55
  to get the Doctor out of the time vortex.
• 2:43:57
  Which what? How does that work?
• 2:44:00
  It's just nonsense. But of course, it's going
• 2:44:03
  through. Yeah.
• 2:44:11
  So my first reason for loving this is the Doctor, the Doctor
• 2:44:16
  and Master rival. We talked a little bit about the
• 2:44:19
  Sea Devils. I think just, it just, they're
• 2:44:21
  just so fun and watchable together.
• 2:44:24
  I mean, the, the bit that really makes me laugh is in in episode
• 2:44:28
  3, the Doctor just takes the Master's thread.
• 2:44:30
  There's lots of pretentious warnings, but he just takes it
• 2:44:32
  all so lightly, builds that wonderful machine gizmo just to
• 2:44:37
  kind of play around with the Master and just to piss him off
• 2:44:39
  a little bit. So we did that at school.
• 2:44:41
  So it's just they're just, they're just playing.
• 2:44:43
  And yes, part 4, I love part four.
• 2:44:46
  Yes, I know it's padding, but Delgado and Pertwee together,
• 2:44:51
  the mockery of each other. I just love it.
• 2:44:53
  It's charming, it's delightful. You.
• 2:44:56
  Know they had dinners at each other's houses.
• 2:44:58
  You're getting a bit of insight into that.
• 2:44:59
  What? It's like, you know, I mean, at
• 2:45:02
  least they throw in that the master's about to kind of
• 2:45:04
  sacrifice jokes. That does raise the stakes a
• 2:45:06
  little bit. You're just there for the bands,
• 2:45:08
  aren't you? It's just fantastic.
• 2:45:10
  Then when we get to Atlantis, you've got who said it Already
• 2:45:13
  we've had the foil foiled as curses foiled again, which is
• 2:45:17
  just a glorious line. Even Dudley Simpson goes.
• 2:45:25
  And then the Doctor, when the Master takes the throne, the
• 2:45:27
  Doctor just kind of heckling him like he's a comedy gig.
• 2:45:30
  They're just, they're just treating it as low stakes.
• 2:45:32
  Even when Alanis is destroyed at the end, they don't really care.
• 2:45:35
  They just walk off together. I mean, it's no wonder at the
• 2:45:38
  end that the Doctor saves the Master because they're just best
• 2:45:41
  friends by the stage and just having bit of Jinx together.
• 2:45:43
  And I love it. It's just so endlessly
• 2:45:45
  entertaining. My second reason, and I actually
• 2:45:48
  genuinely mean this, I love the scenes on Atlantis.
• 2:45:52
  I don't know why, but I do. It's a shame it wasn't shot on
• 2:45:55
  film like the little peaks that we had early on.
• 2:45:57
  It's a shame they don't. We go into studio and yes, it is
• 2:46:00
  very truncated, but do you know what?
• 2:46:02
  Seriously, it feels different to any other bit of Pertway.
• 2:46:06
  It feels more like Dallas than Daleks because it's got all this
• 2:46:08
  sex and power and it's just wonderful.
• 2:46:12
  I love it. You've got the master as Jr.
• 2:46:14
  seducing Sue Allen, which is Ingrid Pitt I.
• 2:46:17
  Don't know why they didn't pick it up as a pilot for a new.
• 2:46:20
  TV. Show, you know, they could have
• 2:46:22
  done, you know, set a new. BBC The title sequence, you
• 2:46:29
  know. You've got Queen Galileo in the
• 2:46:31
  tussle sequence, stroking her pussy.
• 2:46:36
  And we are unanimous, all right. I just love all that stuff from
• 2:46:41
  Atlanta. Then thirdly, Kronos.
• 2:46:43
  There's just something about the concept of Kronos.
• 2:46:45
  He's the devourer of time. What the fuck does that mean?
• 2:46:48
  I don't know, but it sounds marvellous, doesn't it?
• 2:46:50
  Sounds really evocative. And the fact that the Master is
• 2:46:52
  so desperate to control Kronos makes you think, OK, it's got to
• 2:46:56
  be a big threat. Sometimes the thrashing bird
• 2:46:59
  works. It absolutely doesn't when it
• 2:47:00
  gets to Atlantis and it's just. Swinging the.
• 2:47:03
  Thrashing Bird does that too, yeah.
• 2:47:11
  That's one of the Saints. That's that's what their names
• 2:47:15
  are like one of the items that Simon got these parcels.
• 2:47:20
  Thrashing Bird now we've and I love the fact we get a bit of
• 2:47:26
  surrealism at the end when we see Kronos's face.
• 2:47:29
  We don't have surrealism enough in poet way.
• 2:47:31
  So I'm all there for Crohn's. Yeah.
• 2:47:33
  How can you not put this through?
• 2:47:34
  It's just I just laugh from start to end with us, sometimes
• 2:47:38
  with it, sometimes that's it. But it's just mostly, mostly.
• 2:47:43
  I'm not going to give you percentages.
• 2:47:44
  Can I add one more thing though? Right?
• 2:47:46
  Because I know, I know I'll play the horny podcaster quite a lot,
• 2:47:52
  right? A lot of it's affectation, as I
• 2:47:55
  hope, you know, I'm not that horny all the time.
• 2:47:58
  But Ingrid Pete is just radiant in this.
• 2:48:03
  Like, she's so beautiful, isn't she?
• 2:48:07
  She's got such bearing. I absolutely believe her in that
• 2:48:10
  role. And then there's a special
• 2:48:12
  feature of her as a panopticon or something like that, where
• 2:48:17
  she's talking about the role and she was just so happy to do it
• 2:48:20
  and. She didn't need this.
• 2:48:22
  She was. Doing movies, you know.
• 2:48:24
  And they were horror star. They were cutting scenes that
• 2:48:27
  big scenes in this because they had plot things to do, and she
• 2:48:30
  was really good about it. I just think she's such a
• 2:48:33
  talent. I mean, to be fair, I'm glad the
• 2:48:35
  Macros wasn't made, but she is great.
• 2:48:38
  I mean, she's the best thing about Warriors that are deep as
• 2:48:40
  well. But we'll get there.
• 2:48:42
  Jesus. Yeah.
• 2:48:44
  Just radiant. So that's three yeses for the
• 2:48:48
  time Monster eat that Daniel night, so.
• 2:48:52
  Don't sign. I agree with every point you
• 2:48:55
  say. You make a compelling argument
• 2:49:01
  as to why we should all go and watch it after this.
• 2:49:04
  No, I've watched it once this year.
• 2:49:06
  That's enough. We are through to Round 2 Camp
• 2:49:11
  music, Joe. We've got 3 left.
• 2:49:13
  We've jettisoned the mutants. It's probably a wall blew out
• 2:49:16
  and they're all got explained twice.
• 2:49:18
  Well done. How did we lose the Sea Devils?
• 2:49:21
  So we're down to the final three.
• 2:49:22
  So let me spin the wheel. I'm only going to get to spin at
• 2:49:26
  once today. It's day of the Daleks.
• 2:49:31
  Oh, against the curse of Paladon.
• 2:49:35
  So Time Monster is in our final. MY2 favorites.
• 2:49:40
  Let's go to Joe Go short, Daleks or Paladon.
• 2:49:47
  Paladon. Sigh.
• 2:49:52
  Wow, as I said at the start of this episode, because Peloton is
• 2:49:56
  my favorite of the year, so I'm going to Paladon too.
• 2:50:01
  My favorite of the year is via the Daleks so.
• 2:50:09
  I would choose that I am going to go with what I think is the
• 2:50:12
  better story, and I've got just just so many childhood memories
• 2:50:18
  of it. So it's Curse of Paladon.
• 2:50:20
  It's a worthy winner. It's.
• 2:50:22
  Got to be Alpha Centauri and Agador.
• 2:50:23
  Yeah, absolutely. So we are down to the Curse of
• 2:50:28
  Paladon plays the Thai Monster. Somebody.
• 2:50:32
  Most. Strictly.
• 2:50:33
  Didn't Fraser say that earlier? Sign.
• 2:50:36
  He did. He said.
• 2:50:37
  I'll bet it'll be the curse of Bloody Paladon and the Thai
• 2:50:39
  monster. Well, here we are in.
• 2:50:41
  Freezer. Everybody else, you'd make your
• 2:50:44
  choice, think what Fraser would think and go in the other
• 2:50:46
  direction. Company know the dams, therefore
• 2:50:49
  it's going to be Thai Monster, but I'm not going to sway
• 2:50:51
  things. I think we all start with the
• 2:50:52
  lovely Joe Short, because I think it's probably more obvious
• 2:50:56
  what she's going for, but who knows?
• 2:50:58
  Paladon. So is it Paladon or Atlantis?
• 2:51:04
  Yeah. Think, think, think.
• 2:51:06
  Oh, it's the time monster. I've got to, I've got to just, I
• 2:51:12
  just just the time monster. Sigh.
• 2:51:17
  Elegant. What about will we resigned
• 2:51:22
  competent. Great fun, brilliant
• 2:51:26
  storytelling with a message at the heart of it.
• 2:51:29
  It's gotta be Paladin. So time monster then So.
• 2:51:32
  Time monster then, yeah. Joe Well, my favorite of the
• 2:51:37
  year is gone, so I don't really care anymore what wins this.
• 2:51:42
  And I'm going to say the Thai monster.
• 2:51:45
  And do you know why I'm going to say the Thai monster?
• 2:51:48
  Because I think Joe made a brilliant point that the scenes
• 2:51:52
  between Delgado and Ingrid Pier are just amazing.
• 2:51:57
  And you know, I'd rather watch their mat here than Katie
• 2:52:01
  Manning and. King of the Centauri.
• 2:52:08
  No, I think Pentagon is a more competently told story and it is
• 2:52:12
  better directed. Do I have a better time with it?
• 2:52:17
  No way. No Thai monster for me.
• 2:52:22
  Oh my God. Yeah, you're in a tricky.
• 2:52:24
  Buy now come on is. It.
• 2:52:26
  Oh. God, because Polygon was one of
• 2:52:31
  the first poet was I saw because of the 19.
• 2:52:33
  Oh re saw. I should say I've been slightly
• 2:52:36
  older. I've been seeing the 82.
• 2:52:39
  So that's got so many memories for it because I managed to put
• 2:52:41
  it on audio. So I've listened to it for
• 2:52:43
  years. What about the What about the
• 2:52:46
  Master Sniffer outer though? You know, it's an enormous cock
• 2:52:51
  and balls. It's enormous.
• 2:52:53
  Enormous cock in Alpha Centauri. Especially on this goal.
• 2:53:03
  There's also those massive dildo glasses in the day of the
• 2:53:06
  Doctor. We forgot, we didn't know I
• 2:53:07
  mentioned those so. Suppose if you're comparing
• 2:53:12
  Alpha Centauri with the TARDIS sniffer outer, I guess you've
• 2:53:17
  got to have cock with balls, haven't you?
• 2:53:18
  So it's got to be the time monster.
• 2:53:23
  You're all bad. It's fine.
• 2:53:26
  It's got Delgado. It's Yeah, it's got to be the
• 2:53:31
  time monster. Look at you.
• 2:53:35
  Oh my God, she's so happy. Vindicated.
• 2:53:39
  It is genuinely a great. No, I can't go anywhere at the
• 2:53:43
  moment. I'm far too busy.
• 2:53:44
  But I told them you're becoming too, observers from Universe
• 2:53:47
  said. Well, shall I go?
• 2:53:48
  No, certainly not Jaya. She'll need you here with me.
• 2:53:50
  What's it all? About anyway.
• 2:53:52
  Tom tit. That's what it's all about.
• 2:53:53
  Demonstration of Tom tit. Tom tit Tom tit Right?
• 2:53:59
  We better be on our way to the Newton Institute.
• 2:54:00
  That is the matter with you. You know what it's like.
• 2:54:03
  I'll tell you what, although like seriously, if I hadn't have
• 2:54:06
  done that commentary with those two fabulous guys, I think I
• 2:54:11
  might have got the case Pelodon. But we had so much fun talking
• 2:54:14
  about it and I did do a commentary on the case of
• 2:54:17
  Pelodon, but it was a lot more serious.
• 2:54:20
  It's quite dry in comparison. Despite the the very rude
• 2:54:24
  monsters, it's that's a good story.
• 2:54:27
  Well, that's the majority. Oh, that's so nice.
• 2:54:34
  You know. What does he say?
• 2:54:37
  That's democracy for you. Don't.
• 2:54:41
  Worry. Sorry, sorry, in 40 years time
• 2:54:44
  we're going to have a referendum.
• 2:54:46
  And we're going to our. Minds on this and it'll be like
• 2:54:51
  it'll be Tom Tippex exit or something, you know?
• 2:54:55
  So just wait another 40 years and we'll be fine.
• 2:54:58
  The whole thing will just be forgotten.
• 2:55:00
  By then, by 40 years time we'll have Ingrid Pitts knocks in 3D
• 2:55:04
  proper place so. Please.
• 2:55:09
  She has. No, she doesn't care.
• 2:55:11
  She says get the camera in there.
• 2:55:13
  Go on. They're marvelous.
• 2:55:16
  Well, you have a very worthy winner indeed.
• 2:55:21
  I. Can't wait.
• 2:55:22
  This goes now I cannot. I think this might kill Daniel
• 2:55:25
  Knight. Now look everyone, how to try
• 2:55:29
  right until this is released. Now I've got a serious a very
• 2:55:33
  quick serious point to make, though, So I name me a Doctor
• 2:55:35
  Who story that you know is absolutely terrible, but you
• 2:55:38
  love watching. What's your the time monster?
• 2:55:42
  Well, you you mentioned it before, it's probably haunts of
• 2:55:45
  Nimon, which I absolutely you could tell me till you're blue
• 2:55:50
  in the face that that's a terrible production of a bad
• 2:55:53
  script, but it's not a bad script and it's a it's so
• 2:55:58
  enjoyable. If I do one line.
• 2:56:00
  Invasion of time. Will you say it bad to the next
• 2:56:02
  line? You have brought this calamity
• 2:56:05
  upon me. You brought it on yourself.
• 2:56:09
  So now my point is, and like Toby Haido came on last time,
• 2:56:13
  didn't he, Rod? And he said about how he prefers
• 2:56:16
  to watch Doctor Who that's genuinely good rather than
• 2:56:18
  Doctor Who that's bad and enjoyable to watch.
• 2:56:21
  But I'm in the other camp. Obviously I love good Doctor
• 2:56:23
  Who, but I really, I have developed a huge love for things
• 2:56:27
  like time lash time in the Rani. Like they're not what Doctor Who
• 2:56:31
  should have been doing. A lot of times they make
• 2:56:33
  production mistakes. Man, I'm mad if I'm out there a
• 2:56:37
  bad day and I come moment put on that fucking ridiculous tardy
• 2:56:42
  Martha sniffer outer or Ingrid Pitt camping it up or it's just
• 2:56:47
  delirious. I'm going to say there are loads
• 2:56:51
  of stories like we've done commentaries on half the stories
• 2:56:54
  that I think are like that, that I just adore.
• 2:56:57
  So my point is, I just don't get this one.
• 2:57:00
  At all. It doesn't have to be good to be
• 2:57:04
  enjoyed. I.
• 2:57:04
  Don't. Oh, absolutely not, no.
• 2:57:07
  This is the show that can be shit and great and I love it for
• 2:57:11
  that. Well, it is indeed our winner
• 2:57:14
  and a very worthy winner. It's going into well jumper with
• 2:57:17
  finale it's. Shit but great with that.
• 2:57:20
  Well, I mean, I can't wait for the time monster versus monster
• 2:57:23
  of Paladin. That's going to be a delight to
• 2:57:25
  me. It was the time warrior.
• 2:57:28
  It was the time warrior, of course.
• 2:57:31
  I know. Fantastic.
• 2:57:34
  Well, thank you, Cyth. Thank you, Joe, for getting us
• 2:57:37
  to that magnificent conclusion which we were all we were
• 2:57:41
  unanimous in that. Do you know I?
• 2:57:44
  Laugh a lot in these, but I don't think I've ever laughed as
• 2:57:46
  much as this. Sorry, where can people find you
• 2:57:51
  online or listen to you? Everywhere.
• 2:57:54
  It's OK, Yeah. So obviously lots and lots and
• 2:57:59
  lots of episodes of a hamster with blunt pen.
• 2:58:01
  Not although we've never been to season 9 before, so this was a
• 2:58:05
  new. We will.
• 2:58:06
  We will. I'm sure we will.
• 2:58:07
  Yeah. You keep telling me we're doing
• 2:58:09
  the whole lot so. But yeah, on my own podcast, The
• 2:58:15
  Library of Impossible, I could have said my own podcast.
• 2:58:17
  A hamster with a blunt pen. Not me.
• 2:58:19
  This is why I have to write my intro out and read it every week
• 2:58:23
  when I record my own podcast, Library of Impossible Things,
• 2:58:27
  where I've had both Joe and Rod as guests and two of my highest
• 2:58:32
  rated episodes as well. So there we go, trap many
• 2:58:37
  episodes of Trap One and Maximum Power, which probably by the
• 2:58:41
  time this episode comes out will be starting Series D episodes.
• 2:58:46
  Will be mid-december. Yeah, so we'll be just about to
• 2:58:50
  start Series D episodes. Have we got to the point now
• 2:58:55
  where we have to say where are you not in podcasting?
• 2:58:58
  Well, there's plenty of podcasts who've never invited me on.
• 2:59:02
  Who are these people? I have a list.
• 2:59:06
  Send me a list of usually. Are these, are these the people
• 2:59:09
  in fandom that you have slept with?
• 2:59:10
  All those that you haven't? There's a Venn diagram isn't.
• 2:59:15
  There, they don't talk to him anymore because it's the best
• 2:59:18
  sex they had in their lives. And now you know, everything's
• 2:59:21
  anticlimactic now. Literally.
• 2:59:24
  Literally. Yeah.
• 2:59:28
  And lovely Joe Short, where can people find you?
• 2:59:30
  You can find me on Twitter, The Brain of Spock.
• 2:59:34
  Apart from this, the most recent I was on the track one few
• 2:59:38
  months ago where we did the latest Paul Mars and preview.
• 2:59:44
  I'm going to be back on track 1 next year doing another one.
• 2:59:48
  So yeah, with the two lovely marks as I or as we now call
• 2:59:53
  ourselves the Mars Avengers and the Mars Rangers, we as that's
• 3:00:00
  all we seem to talk about is Paul Miles books so but.
• 3:00:03
  I should certainly hope you're going to come back for Strictly
• 3:00:05
  come Hamster Round 2 where we start knocking out all the
• 3:00:08
  winners. Joe, we are back a little bit
• 3:00:13
  earlier than usual for our next episode.
• 3:00:15
  We're back in about 10 days, time in time for Christmas Day.
• 3:00:21
  And what episode? Of course, What season would we
• 3:00:23
  cover on Christmas Day? It's got to be a pantomime.
• 3:00:27
  I've already just started walking around my marvellous
• 3:00:29
  towers again. Oh yes, it's season 24 for
• 3:00:35
  Christmas Day and so if ever there was one at last, the
• 3:00:40
  Strictly Come Hamster Championship shall be mine.
• 3:00:44
  Sorry. Oh, it's got to be camp, that
• 3:00:46
  one. I think it might just be a.
• 3:00:48
  Who's on that one? Mikey Smith.
• 3:00:50
  Oh boy. Mikey Smith.
• 3:00:56
  Who's the big villain of that episode, I mean.
• 3:01:00
  I can't imagine how it's going to be more chaotic than this,
• 3:01:03
  but we'll see. We'll see.
• 3:01:04
  You never know when we go out. Can everyone say it with us,
• 3:01:10
  please? Well.
• 3:01:11
  No, it's Michael again. You know, you know what you got
• 3:01:14
  to say at the end. Yeah.
• 3:01:16
  OK. So thank you for listening and
• 3:01:19
  until next time everybody keep listening.
• 3:01:24
  Let's top it off. Come on.
• 3:02:14
  The. The.