Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Are these the Best Paid Jobs and Benefits in Financial Planning? Frazer James: the best should be paid more! | James Mackay

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Are these the Best Paid Jobs and Benefits in Financial Planning? Frazer James: the best should be paid more! | James Mackay · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: And today on the Financial Planner Live podcast, we welcome James McKay.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of two co-founders of a company called Fraser James.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: And today we dig deep into the benefits on offer for new people joining their business.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: They are a fully remote business.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're offering insane salary packages for roles such as administration, power planning, and associate financial planners.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: And we dig deep into positive impact within the workplace, how they measure that up against time in work.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's a fantastic episode.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you're looking to push a career forward, join a company that really truly cares about you, your well-being, and your work-life balance.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to love this episode.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, James, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Very well, thanks, Sam.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very well, I'm very well.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is a brand new studio space for us here in Bristol.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying to keep um in keeping with our London venue.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a little bit regal, a little bit brown, but look at those gardens.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: They're absolutely fantastic out there.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think we have a little wander around there, Lisa, you and me.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a stunning place.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've uh I've lived in Bristol for quite a long time and never actually been here, so it's a bit of a treat for me as well.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know, and I think this is the thing with Clifton, isn't it?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't quite know what's behind these big, beautiful buildings.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: You don't realise that, of course, they're going to have really beautiful established gardens as well.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a bit of a sucker for a garden.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is gonna be a beautiful spot in the summer.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I might even run some events here.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, I think that's a great idea.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm dead impressed.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: So Bristol is also home to you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Turns out we know a few people as well.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: We do indeed.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're from, and um a little bit about your business.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh my name's James Mackay.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I run Fraser James, and we're effectively a boutique financial planning and wealth management business.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: We set up about six years ago now.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So a fairly new business, um, and maybe a fairly different business as well.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we're gonna get into today.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because we've had a lovely pre-podcast chat.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I've gotten to know you now, and it's the reason why you come onto the podcast, because you are very unique.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, boutique gets thrown around quite a bit, actually, when it comes to financial planning, wealth management, family offices.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: For those that don't understand, if you were to describe a business as boutique, what does it mean?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, boutique is like the word holistic, isn't it?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: It gets used far too often and it's a bit of a cliche, but um uh often it's a use of euphemism for small to some degree.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to me it's it's uh a term that we use because we're a nimble business, we're a relatively small business, uh, and also I think a high-end business.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we we don't necessarily want to be the biggest, but we want to be the best.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think that sort of formed our business plan right at the very start when we were sort of in the stages of ideation for Fraser James.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you and Chris came together to build Fraser James.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: But first off, you're here.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So just tell us a little bit about yours and Chris's backgrounds and how you end up coming together to form Fraser James with a uh a combined mindset of where you want to take this business.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like all good stories, uh, it started in a pub in Bristol where we we were effectively complaining about the uh the businesses that we were in.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh our backgrounds are pretty varied.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we we worked at big and small businesses, and we saw the benefits of big businesses being um very process-oriented, really well organized, but perhaps missing that personal touch to some degree.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then we also worked in kind of smaller businesses where um the personalization of advice was brilliant, but ultimately the back office was kind of chaos and and uh not very well run.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we started thinking about trying to take the best from both worlds uh and bring those together, and and that was kind of the starting point for us uh in in that pub in King Street in Bristol.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: So traditional firm structure, both of you have been a part of it on your career journeys.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're looking at it and you're thinking there is things that we like and there are things that we diff dislike, and you came together through frustration and Fraser James over a pint of beer on King Street became a business.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: When you started that business, okay, it's very difficult to start a business without, say, any clients.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so there's a big leap of faith, but you've got to take a risk and you've got to have confidence in yourself to run that business.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to go straight to that point because a lot of people who listen to the listen thing, and that's really brave to set up a business.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: But what did you do when you first started?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to start on zero, don't you, at the end of the day.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, what did you do in the beginning?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to the point of where you started to build real confidence that you were building a business that clients were interested in.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Some might say brave, some might say naive.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably a bit of both.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but we we really we started with absolutely zero clients.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there was some uh some of our own financial planning that needed to be done, um, some cost cutting to be to be done there.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately uh we had a huge focus on marketing.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and that was really we had a lot of time and no clients, no referrals because we had no clients.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh starting from the ground up uh was incredibly challenging, but it's also been incredibly rewarding as well.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we threw a lot of spaghetti at a lot of walls, I suppose, with regards to marketing.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you if you can think of it, we tried it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one thing we did from the very start was really try and measure what works, you know, um, what has a positive ROI.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so everything from kind of pay per click advertising right the way through to going to network events and and and trying to drum up business that way.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so that was a real challenge.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: But uh when we when we look back, uh it's really stood us in great stead for where we are today.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, what worked from a marketing perspective for you then and what didn't?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: What was the biggest kind of the biggest?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh god, I wish we never did that to thank God we found that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um the biggest thing that worked for us actually was digital marketing, which today has become uh a lot more saturated, things like SEO uh creating you know really useful content with that end ideal client in mind.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and we picked up a lot of traction with that.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think uh a lot of firms now have have clued clued up on that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for example, you know, through some of the things we did, uh we ultimately became you know pretty high up on Google page one when someone typed in financial advisor in Bristol, for example, which is ironic because we're a remote business now, which is I'm sure is something we'll come on to.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but uh ultimately the digital marketing thing really worked.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: But we also used things like unbiased, things like Google Ads and everything in between, I suppose.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: What about networking events?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Did you get go along?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you did you do you have professional introducer relationships?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have they worked for you?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: We did lots of networking events.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think the networking events actually take a lot of time to actually work.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you need to build up that level of trust.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's only today where we're starting to see the fruits of the long-term labour that has been put into that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we probably made the mistake of being a bit stop start on that as well.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we've we've certainly not got everything right, far from it.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've learned a lot of lessons and now the uh kind of professional connection relationships, as we call them, now that is really kind of building up some traction.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think, you know, the company being better known in the area, I think that probably helps with that as well.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, was there a point where you felt super confident that okay, people are buying into us as a business now and we're able to scale the business, maybe hire some people to service those clients and for us to move forward?
• 8:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Was there a point?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: How long did it take?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was about two years till we probably got to that point.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it took a while to just break even, you know, with with a financial planning business.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's not huge overhead where there's just two directors not taking any money from the business.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it it took a bit of a while, but we really we started to get traction as we um started working with clients.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: We delivered what I would say is kind of an exceptional service to them.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that led to them referring family, friends, etc., and us growing organically in that way as well.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um just talking about the types of clients that you actually service and you work with and you provide the services.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a specific niche that you've doubled down on, or are you catering for everybody?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a specific um net worth or a job title?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Did you sort of subscribe to those types of niches, or are you somebody who is looking to service everybody?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Somewhere in the middle, if I'm being honest.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we probably have two niches that we work with.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one is uh small business owners, owner-managed businesses.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have a pretty broad range of those, anything from kind of a one-man band, um, you know, high-profit business all the way to a£50 million, you know, sort of global enterprise.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the kind of directors of those, uh, and also sector agnostics.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So from publishing to financial services to retail to manufacturing, we kind of work with all sorts of uh business owners in in that space.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and then the other uh the other kind of niche, I suppose, that we um that we gained more by accident than than on purpose was uh tech employees.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the compensation structure is often quite complex.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: They've got RSUs, they've got stock options, uh, they've got all these different things going on.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we started working with a couple of people by chance, um, provided some more content, started targeting uh that sort of area, and and now that makes up a reasonable portion of our uh of our client base as well.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say those two areas.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So our general client base uh probably runs younger than average.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um the average age might be around 50.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got the data somewhere, Chris would know exactly the the you know, the average age, but uh is it's somewhere around there.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I think the average client age for most advisory firms is probably pushing 60, if not higher.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's around 55 years old, the average.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that was one when I was at Hoxham, for example, I think the average age was about 53 years old.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: They had quite a younger clientele because you can imagine like a lot of international people moving around.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh tend to be a tend to be a lot younger.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple of things that you said, uh, I just want to kind of put my two cents on as well.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because you said about SEO.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: SEO is definitely not dead, that's for sure.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it's the way that we structure content now because it's not for Google search, it's for chat GPT search.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, absolutely through AI, aren't we?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Gemini's coming up first.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So when when you have a lot of SEO content out there that's been written for the Google, for Google, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's got the authority on Google, that still gets pulled into Chat GPT search as an authority.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's just how is that content structured?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Is it answering questions in the way that you would write into something like ChatGPT as a search?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a big area in that now where firms are looking, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are we AEO enabled?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that's one of the areas that it's definitely worth sort of doubling down on.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the other things that are creating authority and trust is things like this.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if you come onto a podcast and that podcast has subscribers, has a good rating, um, is getting picked up and is in the charts, etc., AI will search for media representation that you've had and and and um uh appointments that you might have had or guest appearances to search to see whether or not you're out there speaking about what it is you'll do.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Even the thing like the transcription through YouTube.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So everything you're saying right now will be transcribed and picked up by AI as well.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So there's loads of things you're doing.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I noticed on your website, and I thought this is brilliant, and this is why we started talking actually.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because I looked on your website and I love the stories that you've created around the client journey.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're beautiful.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been saying that to people all the time, because to me, that's social proof.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: If your clients are talking about what it's like to be a client of you and the service that you're delivering, that is huge social proof and huge testimonial.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: So these are the things.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So things like your unbiased, spouch for, great for social proof from a review perspective.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: But as we move into that AI world, people want to hear and people want to see the real human being behind it.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Then if you're the same as me, if I go on Amazon or something like that, if I look at the if I look at the comments and the reviews, do you know what I think?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Bullshit.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's just how I believe I'm unless I can physically see somebody playing with the product, exactly that, then I'm not interested.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I go straight to video these days.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things as well that you touched on there, and I think it's good for good to bring it this point, is the average age, so the fastest growing demographic on YouTube right now is 55 plus.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is it?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: So your target audience is a client, that's the fastest growing demographic on YouTube.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're not watching on their mobile phones, they're watching on television.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So they want to see, they're kind of moving from I don't know, iPlayer into on their TV, watching YouTube, specifically searching.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: One of the top search criteria is retirement planning and investments in financial services.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: So being able to put that content out there and produce that content, media is the thing that's going to get you higher up in the social proof ranking and therefore higher up in the AEO search.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: A friend of mine, Mike Yule, he's a financial planner in France, is now doing a lot of work around that.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he put a post out yesterday about how he's now picking up clients through AI search.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So my bit of advice for anyone listening to yourself, yeah, dig into that AEO.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Are we optimizing ourselves for AI search?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny you say that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've uh we've recently gone through our 2026 business planning.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the key sort of areas of improvement for what we want to do regarding the marketing, AEO, video, and branding.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so that's uh that's good to know we're not going in completely the wrong direction.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And also the very fact that you're here today and then we're working together, you know, it proves to me that you're on the right pathway and your thinking is projecting into making things happen like this.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a firm believer when you think it tends to happen.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I love that sort of thing.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Away from the hippie stuff now.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in respect of your business, okay, it is very different.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: You have stared away from the traditional setup of a financial planning business, and you guys have come together to create a culture and a way to work that um rewards people, okay?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: It rewards people for effort, not just time.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this goes back to our days of working in other businesses and the problems that we kind of saw and maybe felt ourselves, uh, where people kind of hit a ceiling pretty soon.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and especially if they don't necessarily want to transition into a different role.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So often kind of power planners, for example, will hit a ceiling and go, Well, the next step is to be an advisor.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what that leads to often is someone who can end up in the wrong role for them, um, just because that seems like the natural next step.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what we wanted to do is something a little bit different where there is room for progression within the role.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, for someone who is, you know, really loves the technical side, actually, there is a real career path as a financial planner uh where you can be rewarded for that, not have to kind of, you know, go on the next stepping stone to a job that might not be, you know, really well suited to you.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I understand that perfectly.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there are often a lot of people out there that just want to specialise in a specific job role within financial planning.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Not every administrator wants to become a power planner, not every power planner wants to become a financial advisor, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the companies that can um create career frameworks and structure within a role and take somebody on a journey with that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And over time their role responsibility goes up.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, as well, the reward goes up.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So the more they provide uh in respect of knowledge, skills, the more they develop, you reward them and ideally reward the person that wants to be a career power planner or reward the person who wants to be an administrator or a career financial planner.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: They build a really great ecosystem to keep them happy within that role.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, people who are happy in roles, but they know that they've got opportunity and they can add value and they can get reward for that, they stay.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we've tried to build.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we've we've effectively built a kind of a five-step framework for someone within each role, and it goes all the way from kind of junior to exceptional.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there is really clear outline and a transparency around this, around right, at different levels, what you might earn, uh what that entails in order to sort of get to that next step.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not any forcing anyone to, you know, always be progressing if you don't want to.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: You might be perfectly happy, kind of, you know, with where you're at.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but ultimately, I think a lot of people and a lot of the people that we have uh in our organization really do want to progress, but as you said a second ago, don't necessarily want to jump ship into a completely different role that they're not actually really they're not heart, their heart isn't in it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And what I loved about when I started speaking to you both, you and Chris, you sent me so much information about each individual role, yeah, about the business, about the direction of the business, the culture of the business, how you operate.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that super interesting because look, I'm a background in talent attraction.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So for me to be able to get the right person within your business, we need to understand your business.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you two have sat back and you've really, really thought about exactly how to structure and reward people, not just based on money, but based on their purpose and worth and value to the business as well.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that a lot of that information is there.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I assume if anyone ever applies for a job with you, etc., you provide that information to them so they can really understand what that journey looks like, what the roadmap looks like when they become uh part of the Fraser James team, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to give someone a complete roadmap in terms of okay, like where am I now?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Where could I be?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And where do I want to get to, and make sure that all lines up.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ultimately it comes back to sort of having big company benefits, but a small company culture a lot of the time.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to attract really great talent, but then it's about rewarding and retaining those people.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and included in that is a lot of flexibility.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, part of it is the remote working thing and people people being offered work from home, um, which seems to be a uh a more and more important thing, and it's playing in our favour, certainly at the moment.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it also allows us to attract talent from across the UK as well.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not we don't just hire people in and around Bristol.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's where our head office is, but ultimately, you know, we have we have a team spread right across the country, and uh within that kind of framework as well, we we also want to sort of give people flexibility around, you know, the hours they're working to some degree, where they work from.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh within the contract, people can work abroad for, you know, uh, I think it's up to three months to keep their UK residency, but can work abroad.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and we have various other benefits that um I think ensure people sort of feel really rewarded and and benefits that uh people really value these days as well.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to get into psychology of being a business owner that has the confidence to build a model that is remote working because I've been in I've been working with multiple businesses.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got one camp that says flexible working is the way forward and they're building a business on trust.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: You've got the other camp that says get in the office at seven o'clock, I want to see you every single day.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen both those environments.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen how how in what and I've even done it myself because I had a recruitment business.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I had people working four-day weeks, I did the same with people working abroad.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I had Charlie who was working over in Portugal for quite some time.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I I myself have personally experienced some of the flexible working ethos that you guys have started your business with.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to know, like, let's get into it because people are gonna be listening to this thinking, like, I really would love to work remote.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to go and work over in France maybe during the summer or whatever, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the realities of that.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: First off, I want to know is why are you offering it?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why, what, where did that come from?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why have you set your stool on being a remote working business?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is it to do with you, Chris?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: What where did it come from?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to uh when we set up the organization, we wanted to build the the business that we would love to work for and attacking it from that sort of angle.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and then in terms of uh you know the the the two polarized sort of examples there of where where you were in your in your when you were in your previous uh business, we very much fall onto that side of flexibility, largely because we're trying to attract a players, we call it, okay, um, internally.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people who are exceptional at the role and really kind of want the flexibility, I think they're going to be drawn to a business like ours rather than a bigger business that requires you to be in the office at eight o'clock and do your hours, etc.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: What we measure is outcomes.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're outcomes oriented.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as a small business, we can kind of measure and monitor that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that gets harder as you grow.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and the the kind of uh evaluation of that becomes more difficult.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But right now we're finding that works incredibly well um in terms of no micromanagement, maximum autonomy, uh, and really leaving people to uh do the best work that they can that's flexible around their lives.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so far that's uh that's been a good decision.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Great stuff.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to ask, how do you maintain the boundaries?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think we as human beings do need some form of boundaries and structure.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: How do you maintain what that is?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you build out sort of almost like a a size of a playground that you're allowed to play in?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like how does it work for you?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: How do you know if someone's not just overstepping and doing what they want?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're obviously saying outcomes, yeah, sure.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Orientated.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're going to put outcomes in there, is there boundaries around that?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are there expectations?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have targets?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: How do you determine what the outcome actually is based on the person?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean really interested in that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I've had that in the past, one person could sit at their desk at seven o'clock in the morning at home and be really kind of on it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas somebody else would be like at the gym and they'd lose interest and but then they do some absolute brilliance like for a couple of days.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a bit like that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I can tell.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I just like my brain just doesn't want to work.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd rather go and rest and then go at it again the next couple of days.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: How do you set the expectation?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's one of the biggest challenges.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because as a business owner, you have the way that you work and you kind of almost try to project that onto everybody else because it works for you.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you create flexibility when you have individuals that are so individual?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a few things.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um there are some boundaries, first and foremost.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are we have team meetings at certain times, like the you know, that that everyone uh comes to.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: There we have full company meetings, um, and also people are um asked to kind of like report on what they're planning on doing for the week, what they've done for the week, you know, plan out their weeks, etc.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, ultimately, though, uh the boundaries are not, you know, you need to be working from this time to this time.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's are you producing, are you getting the things done that you'd say you're gonna get done?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if we're falling down in any way, it's just about honest conversations.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think, you know, with the type of people that we, you know, yeah, our organization doesn't have, I guess, room for people who need to be told what to do each step of the way and need to be sort of micromanaged.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that person just isn't the best fit for a company like ours.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably a great person for another firm.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but ultimately, you know, the the people that we have working for us and that we're looking to, you know, work with in the future, uh, they're people that really are engaged and enjoy their work and uh and they get lots of stuff done.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And whether they get it done at nine o'clock at night or nine o'clock in the morning, I don't really care.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Trust.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Trust.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: You trust these people, but then you're also looking for proof from them that they've delivered on what they said they can do for you.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you go quite deep at the interview stage, yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you kind of, okay, good.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the same thing, isn't it?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes we don't want to get that halo effect effect where we sit in front of somebody and they're a good person, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: But we really like them and therefore we think they can do the job.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, it's about like when have you worked like this before?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Why do you feel like this is going to work for you?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: How are you going to structure your days?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: What, you know, what's important to you?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have children?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is the gym important to you?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've gone through it myself.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like Kerry sat in the corner at the moment.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like Kerry has two kids.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know she thinks exactly the same as a way as me.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: She's quite neurodivergent with ADHD.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know there are things that will stress her out and won't stress her out.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I'm trying to do is build a process around her that's going to get the best out of her.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: So she's not double thinking what I'm thinking all the time because we've created a framework that's going to work for her.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that actually will take a little bit of time to define.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I want her to be in the gym because I know that being in the gym is going to make her happy.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I want her to make sure that her kids come first because looking after her kids is going to make her happy.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Happy Carrie is going to be a happy person in my business.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the way I think that you're operating.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly it.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: That really resonates with, you know, we've our our new kind of financial planner who has gone through our associate planner pathway is a young father, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's got two kids, has to juggle and spin multiple plates.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we want the business to uh to work for him.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, yes, there's client meetings and they've got to come first, and there's certain times that we have to be available, but outside of that, there's a lot of flexibility for whether it's school runs in the mornings or uh whatever else.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and uh I think he really values that, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and as an organization that can give that to him, where he can be his best self in the job, but then also be the best dad he possibly can be.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a win-win-win.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: So one thing you've mentioned, and one thing I really loved was you're looking for A plus talent.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a massive talent shortage out there at the moment.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: We know that, okay.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the pool of good quality financial planners, power planners, administrators is actually shrinking.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's not enough people coming into the profession.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's the whole point of this podcast as well.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: My product is if we attract new people in.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's happening, you know, it's it's it's getting there.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you're looking for A plus, you're you're fishing in a in a pool with other people, right?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: So A plus candidates give them an A plus environment, but also give them A plus benefits.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do you offer any benefits outside of that flexible working?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or what else are you offering these candidates that come to join your business?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you can't have one without the other, can you?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh apart from the flexible working, I mean we've got to pay people really well, first and foremost, and and we're always keeping up to what the what the market is doing, and we want to be in the top 10% of payers.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a I think an important part to most people.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the other benefits within the organization is five percent of salary they have, uh each team member has as a growth allowance.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be personal growth, it can be professional growth, it can be uh it can be a cookery course, um, it can be, you know, it can be learning a language, uh, whatever it is that um that person really wants to get better at and and improve.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can be a weekend away with their partner, right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it that there's there's not really anything that's off limits there, but we want it to be focused on um what that person really needs.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and and that's just you know covered by the company.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is we have 5% company bonus.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we always want to make sure everyone's rowing in the same direction, right?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh uh and so at the end of the year, depending on whether we've hit all of our sort of business metrics together and we're very transparent around what those metrics are, um, then there's up to a five percent bonus.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think one thing that we've bought in recently that really lit the eyes up of a lot of the team was once someone's worked for us for three years, we are gonna give them uh a full month paid sabbatical where they can travel or do whatever they want, put their feet up.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and we've got one of our staff that is coming up to that point now and starting to think about how she is gonna uh how she's gonna take that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's quite exciting.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh aside from that, I think um I mentioned the work from anywhere, I mentioned the the flexible hours.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh really that that kind of we try and tick as many boxes as possible.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we also always trying to get feedback from the team.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this probably isn't a benefit, but one thing that we want our company culture to be as well is a very flat management structure.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like top-down, do this, do that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's everyone's idea is on an equal footing, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we have, you know, collaborative meetings together around right, what can we do better?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: How can we improve our client experience?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: How can we add maximum value to clients?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And also, like, what can we do uh to improve your lives, the team?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh and so far that's working really well.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to ask, when you have that feedback and it comes in because everyone has ideas, they want to bring ideas into their business.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: When you do that, often businesses love hearing the ideas, but don't have the time or resource to implement those ideas.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: From your perspective and Chris's perspective, who gets shit done?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Who who implements it?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Who's the person within the business that actually implements the ideas and the feedback that people are actually doing to make improvements?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it isn't usually me.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's actually this is where uh it's very useful having two business owners, one of them very focused on clients, business development, which is myself, and Chris, who is doesn't see clients, is focused on operations and running the show behind the scenes.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so Chris is Chris is the guy that will implement those things.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just him, you know, he will use the team.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if someone has an idea and everyone kind of likes it, okay.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Come back, put together a more detailed sort of project plan around that, around how we implement it.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you're absolutely right, everyone can come up with ideas and it can all sound rosy and great on a team day, but the really tough part is you know, actually making it happen.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think one thing as a business that we're very good at is making things happen.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that is largely down to having that kind of balance um of leadership.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Speed, um being agile, I think is what lends itself to a boutique.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Indeed.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's exactly what people want to hear.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if people can get very, very bored in some of these larger businesses because you can run from one side of the ship into the other side of the ship, but it doesn't rocket.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when people have really good ideas and they want to be heard, it's great to have an environment where that can be done very, very quickly if everyone agrees.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: It almost feels like a little bit like a partnership, like you're partnering with everybody within your business to improve the business, to drive the business forward.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: There is no hierarchy.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have we have um what we call growth and development meetings, so one-on-ones with every single team member, um, that always starts off kind of monthly, and then we might move it to quarterly once someone's sort of you know been around long enough where they don't feel they need it as much.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's really a conversation around, you know, how are you getting on?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are you struggling with?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: What ideas have you got to improve the overall business?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: How can we support you better?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and exploring all of those things and just having a really human conversation around, right, you know, how can how can things get better?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then as you said a second ago, you know, what can be done there?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's reasonable.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And not everything, of course, can be implemented.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever someone comes up with a new idea, it's not automatically, yeah, we can we can do that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but listening, and then when it when we're everyone's in agreement, actioning it, I think that's really valuable.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, perfect.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're the people doing the job at the end of the day, day in, day out.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: You want to hear the the you know, the things that are working well and the troubles and what can be improved.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um we've spoken about making a positive impact within your business and how you reward impact over time.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of businesses are like, well, are you coming at seven o'clock and leave at seven?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: You must be doing a fantastic job.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas you're rewarding the impact over the time.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: But if we were to um kind of break that down in real simplistic terms, and then before we get into the different types of roles that you've got within the business, talk about maybe the five-stage structure that you have implemented in each of those different types of roles within your business and how that then helps you measure impact.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, first thing we've done is break down the five steps for each of the individual roles, which don't worry, I won't go through every sort of step and measurement today.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as I said, we've kind of got, you know, the first step is is junior, which is around doing the basics of that role really, really well.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the bar is already reasonably high just at that at that at that level.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess the middle step then is experienced.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, you can also you can do the basics pretty well, um, but you're also maybe bringing some ideas, you're also raising the standards to some degree, um, you're looking at opportunities to kind of develop the business within that kind of role.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then the exceptional uh kind of point number five on that on that framework is um you are the go-to person with regards to everything and anything in that role.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're driving things forward.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you are uh, you know, a key to change within the business, and you're also probably kind of you know managing and helping other team members across across the board.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's a really broad overview.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but ultimately it's just something we've built with the team as well.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not sort of Chris and I coming up with just you know the ideas and what we think, it's getting feedback, reviewing that, what else should go into this kind of framework.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, that's something that we've kind of you know implemented with with a reasonable degree of success.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a smart thing to do because it allows you to open up almost five roles within one role.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you could hire somebody at the top, we could hire somebody maybe junior, depending upon the business need, the person who comes in can see what the opportunity is in front of them.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: So they can climb the career ladder if they want, or they can come in at the top because they've got the skills and the expertise.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but the reward is higher than what might be out there in the open market due to the business running on smaller overheads.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: I should have summarised it like that, shouldn't I?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I'm here for.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I'm here for.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: As we said before, sometimes one of the most difficult things to do is talk about your own business.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: You spend so much time talking to clients about what they want, their futures, and the deliver, you know, delivering the best service you possibly can.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: We often don't stop and think about our own businesses.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: And this is like what it's all about here at the Financial Planet Life.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to articulate and bring to life what it's like to work within your business and what that opportunity is because it often gets missed out on a job advert, although your job adverts are actually extremely good because I looked at those, they were they were pretty good.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it kind of brings me into looking at the job roles that you've currently got at the moment and that will always really be open within your business where you're looking for that top-tier talent to join your company.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, before we get into it, because I want to I want to start with like the administrator side of your business and what that role is, and for you just to give a little bit of an overview of that, because I know you're looking for somebody uh right now in in that position, also as well, right?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um just to give the big picture, I suppose we've achieved 40% year-on-year growth over the last couple of years.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we are organically growing relatively quickly, and that's a great benefit to the business, but it also is a challenge from a capacity point of view.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so we believe in kind of hiring ahead of the demand, and so ultimately that's one thing we're doing at the moment.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're building the next team.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh and we work in a pod structure.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we financial planner, power planner, and administrator in teams of three.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we're looking at building that next kind of pod of Fraser James to facilitate, you know, the new era of clients that are uh that are coming on board over the next year or two.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um with regards to the administrator role, I guess our administrator role is probably pretty different to uh many administrator roles out there that uh where the administrator is kind of pigeonholed and doing um kind of, I guess, various different tasks throughout the day.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Our administrator is the quarterback of the pod.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they are in charge of providing a brilliant client experience and trying to progress that all of the time.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they are spinning a lot of different plates, managing different projects, um organizing things like events for current clients, um, and also ensuring that when we take on a client, that they are absolutely getting through that work as quickly as possible and seamlessly as possible.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think the uh the one thing that we always have at the top of our mind is the Amazon effect and how people want it now.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and uh, you know, with financial planning and taking on clients, you can really get stuck in the mud a lot of the time.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that onboarding process can easily be a matter of months.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're really trying to slim that down.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and at the forefront of that is the administrator who's kind of um really managing that whole experience for that client.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: So the journey you've got, you've got these different five stages, say, for to for an administrator.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um, can you just talk to me a little bit about those stages, like the responsibilities of an administrator and what say somebody coming in at junior level might look like up against somebody that's maybe at stage five?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so at junior level, there is still probably a really broad range of tasks and probably broader than than most organizations, from what I hear and see for people who've joined from joined us.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they are usually very well organized, they're scheduling and managing kind of you know diaries for the team.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: They are in charge of uh client data gathering.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they might also be involved in providing and managing data for kind of management information for uh for the leadership team.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they are I I guess wearing a number of different hats and able to do that relatively well.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that might be a slight step on from junior actually, but uh that's kind of a starting position.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then someone who is, I guess, you know, is working towards that exceptional stage, is able to do all of that, but then is also leading the charge in terms of developing our process, building new workflows, um, managing other administrators and and members of the team, um, and really kind of the the the leader of that kind of position um and becomes uh I guess the central cog of the pod that they're working within as well.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and then with that comes, I guess, you know, high rewards as they get there.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, on that upper scale, um, our kind of salary range is up to up to£55,000, which is relatively unusual within a kind of administrator role.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I guess we're asking for quite a lot from from um from that person if they want to go on that journey.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're also wanting to recognise and reward that as well.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, look,£55,000 for an administrator, um, senior administrator.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's high.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say it's much higher than the average out there for a senior administrator.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you're certainly paying the quality, paying for quality.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Does that mean that you are hiring an administrator who wants to remain in an administrator role and dominate and own that for the business?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you looking for somebody that is considering administration, which often is happening in financial planning, as a stepping stone to becoming a financial planner or a power planner?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in short, very much the former.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so we want uh we're looking for people who love what they do and want to progress in the role that they're coming in for.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a slight exception um with that, with the kind of the associate financial planner role, which I might talk about in a second.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, the administrators that are coming into the organization are people who love administration.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: They love being organized, they love managing things and they want to be the best version of that, but they still want to progress within that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's why we've built that five-step framework.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, I know a lot of organizations, it's more right, you know, do a bit of administration and then jump to the power planning and then maybe, you know, jump to jump to advice.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's not really where we want to be.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: We see actually A players really uh smashing the roles that they're within and getting better and developing that way.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, brilliant.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: So there's gonna be administrators that are out there probably listening to this, or they're gonna see it on your website or whatever, and they're gonna be thinking, like, you know, I don't want to go into the office every single day.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I know what I'm doing, I can be trusted, I want that flexible work and I want to deliver.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: So this is perfect.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect for those individuals.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: But what about people that haven't got experience and often see administration as an entry-level role?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Are you considering anybody for entry level?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so let's say, for example, someone is working as a pension administrator somewhere, sure.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: But they've never worked in an IFA practice.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Would you consider that person or are you looking for somebody with a minimum level of experience within an advice firm?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of the business of Fraser James is having a requirement of experience, um, if I'm being completely honest.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh the fact that we are a remote organization and the fact that um autonomy is really important, I don't think the role is probably right for someone who is really kind of at the start of their journey, being completely honest.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and we'll say that to people when they get in touch, you know.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think it's uh, you know, it's admirable that's admirable that someone really wants to progress there.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think where we're looking at and what we're looking for is someone who um probably is already a relatively experienced administrator, has worked in a financial planning firm, um, but really wants the next challenge.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think that's where where we probably are a great match for that kind of person.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, once the benefits, once the challenge.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Indeed.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: It goes back to the A plus candidate.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: A plus benefits and rewards.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned that 55 is the sort of top end there, but there's bonuses and extra, et cetera, on top.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that is that accessible?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is bonus accessible for administrators as well as say financial planets?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Every team member.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Every team member.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Every team member.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: All of the flexible benefits that we talked about, the working remotely, the sabbatical after three years, the uh the 5% company bonus, the 5% growth allowance, it's available to every member of staff.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely love that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's fantastic.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: True, everyone the same.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Good stuff.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um my final question around the administrator one, I suppose, is are they working with clients directly?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Are they on the phone to them, speaking to clients?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Are they chasing up letters of authority?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a certain, I don't know, role type as you go up the five five steps where you move more towards client experience?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about that.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: So our our client, um, our client administrators speak to clients pretty regularly.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and part of this kind of pod structure that we have, the client will know their whole team.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just all about the advisor in our organization, right?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: They will have a relationship with the administrator, with the power planner.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully over time they'll know right who's best to email if they've got a question about something.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, on the onboarding side of things, when we work with a new client, the first meeting is actually not with me or an advisor.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually with the administrator.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's to set them up on kind of some systems and our kind of uh secure portal and stuff for the information sharing thing.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a full meeting where they're delivering advice, don't worry.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's just an opportunity to kind of start building that relationship and uh and and just help that client on board and make everything really easy and really clear for them.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, fantastic.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Entry level salary.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about the high end, but what about entry?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: What not entry, sorry, what's the the low end of the scale?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're really testing me now, Samuel, aren't you?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I I I think the entry level um for the junior role is is uh around 32,500 off the top of my head.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's quite a broad range that we've got there.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and and yeah, like that's that's where someone someone uh can can come in on the kind of more junior end.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think what we're looking for in hiring right now is someone kind of more in the middle of the maybe those two bands that are looking to develop and probably have quite a bit of experience rather than coming in at a junior level.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think one of the biggest unique selling points of your business is remote working, you know.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: The benefits are fantastic as well, don't get me wrong.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I think, you know, I ran a recruitment business for so long.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the amount of times we were trying to educate financial planning businesses that the talent is out there, you just have a very small amount of that talent within your locality, especially some of these places where they're out of the way, they're out in the sticks.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, if you just opened it up to remote working, you're gonna get top quality people.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you've just got to trust and build a remote working model.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you guys are obviously going with that.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's pretty much what a lot of people are out there are looking for.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: But they do like community, they like they do like connection.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just just reassure us, you know, you've got you do have a you do have an office in Bristol, for example, right?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: We do.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: But what about um what about get-togethers and things like that?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because we do need community, we do need connection.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do a lot of that as well?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think one thing we're really conscious of is while that we are a remote first organization, um, we we want people to feel supported, we want them to be engaged, we want them to build relationships with their colleagues.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and often that is a little bit more of a challenge when you are remote.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the last thing we want is people to feel siloed and not involved.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um, first and foremost, we have lots of things, lots of meetings together where we're not just talking about work, we're catching up on what people have done over the weekend, how holidays were.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have that kind of like round the round the sort of coffee machine chat still within the organization.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but one thing we've really tried to implement is we have a quarterly sort of team days where we do get together and we'll do something fun and also we'll do some high-level sort of vision of the business stuff as well on that day.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I think next month we are uh going to Tortworth Court, which is in Gloucestershire.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: All the team are coming.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have a uh an incredibly fun day where we're doing various different sort of problem-solving tasks together.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then in the afternoon we're gonna sort of look at right, where are we as a business?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: What are we trying to get better?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's an opportunity for us to get together and socialize.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we're also doing some charity days this year as well.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so getting together, doing some activities together, uh, and again, really building those relationships so that we are building that culture of support, uh, which is really key within a remote organization and being deliberate about it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: So always a big fan of being, you know, positivity around positive impact, uh, whether that's um through charity work.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: So people, planet, and purpose are the three things that I always kind of instill within my businesses.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: People, planet, and purpose, what are we doing around those things?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: I went for the B Corp uh accreditation with my recruitment campaign, which was actually quite time consuming.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of those things where I thought, brilliant, I'll slap B Corp on my business and everyone will just go, wow, you're amazing.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: A bit like if you're a chartered fellow, you think everyone's just gonna come to you because you're a charter fellow.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Suddenly it's the unlock, isn't it?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't actually do it.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sure.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: But from a philosophy perspective, it's nice to know that you are considering people planet in purpose, and it's something that's always kind of stuck with me.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it just makes your life a little bit more enjoyable, especially if you all get together and add value.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're gonna move on to power planners now, okay?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's only about 9,000 power planners in the UK, believe it or not.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: There isn't a huge amount, and the the the the competition around attracting planners power planners is quite high.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then you've also got a lot of power planners that see it as a jumping stone to becoming a financial planner again.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where often companies can feel like they're like, I'm hiring a power planner, but I want them to stay in a stay in a power planner role.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you and I bonded over the fact that often a power planner is advertised as one role, but there's kind of multiple layers to being a power planner.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you look at a power planner and outsourced company, they might have about six different roles within their business at all different stages of power planning.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: From your experience and your knowledge, what have you created around a power planning role based on what you've learned from the market so far?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so power planning is a real spectrum for sure.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and on one side of the spectrum, a power planner in some organizations is a suitability report writer.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other end of the spectrum, which is, I guess, where Fraser James are, they are the architect of the financial planning and advice, and they're collaborating with the financial planner who's going to deliver that advice.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're really sort of pushing the recommendations and coming up with kind of a plan A with regards to things like cash flow modeling or estate planning or whatever it is.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they are the kind of the uh the driver of that.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so our organization really is focused on um building a power planner to be that, um, effectively to be uh almost very much like a financial planner and thinking like a financial planner and being right, what are the clients' goals?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: How are we going to get them there?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and how are we gonna add lots of value, whether it's on investment or tax or general planning, um, and have that kind of mindset.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: But someone who maybe doesn't love sitting in front of a client um and and kind of you know selling those ideas and uh and kind of managing the relationships.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where we sit at the moment.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think that's not right for everyone.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not right for those people who kind of, okay, they're using the power planning as a stepping stone, but I think it is right for a lot of people who love the technical stuff, who love the kind of um the building of those plans and starting from, I guess, scratch a blank sheet of paper when you're looking at a client's kind of financial overview and kind of putting that all together um in a nice kind of packaged way for the financial planner.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where we sit.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now, uh perfect, they need to be involved in the in the client experience.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that are coming that's coming in, um we can't stop it, is AI.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I do think one of the roles that are being challenged the most is gonna be compliance and it's going to be power planning.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: From our future thinking around how AI is going to improve processes, we're still gonna need people, we're still gonna need power planners that are you know looking after the clients.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like the the client experience is a big part of why a power planner within your business needs to be, you know, approachable and and and all those different types of things?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: But do you feel like um the person coming in needs to have a specific level of knowledge around the AI or a willingness to embrace I think our expectation is not that they're an expert in AI, but I think that kind of person that's gonna be a great fit and is gonna have a huge longevity in the power planning role uh ultimately is gonna be interested in AI and pretty uh technologically adept, I would say.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um one thing that we're doing is really kind of looking at where AI can come into the business and uh help improve the the quality and to some degree efficiency of what we do.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and someone who uh we want to drive that is is the power planner, right?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's to make their life easier.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think, yes, you still need to be a bit of a technical expert to be checking things and um give that sense check, but over time, I think the ability to use those tools in your favor is going to be what sets you apart and gives you that kind of very, very high impact career versus someone who okay is just kind of stuck in the kind of yeah, I'd I write suitability reports.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think that's where things might get challenged uh going forward.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, yeah.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I do I do believe the um the power planner plays such an important part of a financial planning business.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if firms aren't really educating them about AI, how it's going to improve things, you're only gonna kind of keep them in the dark and keep people like that in those roles a little bit worried.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if you actually embrace it, train them, get them involved in the whole process and implementation, one power planner can become the ability to service instead of a hundred client cases or something, they could do 300.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think having that ability and understanding the engineering about how it all works and how it feeds into the advice process is only going to make that power planner stand out and become exceptional.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly how we view it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's exactly how we view it.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um it comes back to a growth mindset, which we always look for whenever we hire, right?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh you can you can bury your head in the sand with this stuff, but AI is coming and to some degree for us all.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but using the tools um and focusing more energy, I guess, on adding as much value as possible in other ways, I think is really how you kind of, as you say, stand out from the crowd and uh uh and continue developing to some degree.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: Reward from a financial perspective is a big reason why power planners move, by the way.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, they do enjoy the culture, they do enjoy the environment.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Remote working is a big one.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you're ticking that box big time.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: But what about salaries?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just talk about the top end side.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: What are you paying top end for a top-end power planner?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: So on the top end power planner is around about 85k, um, which I think is kind of again, we do hard market research and uh consult with various different people, and I think that is relatively high, and that's that kind of exceptional talent, and then someone that will want to work towards that.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the I kind of on the more on the more junior end, um, it's probably kind of mid-40s, yeah.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in terms of that, someone who's kind of you know, um relatively new to the power planning world, developing, has got the right mindset, and um, you know, has the technical chops, but probably has a long way to go in terms of I guess the expansive knowledge and I guess the to some degree the confidence of you know building those financial plans and leading that.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned about like technical expertise, and then you've got the five stages.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: Does someone becoming sort of like a technical expert within their business, is that tends to be towards the top end of the scale?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the the technical expertise is probably the middle end of how we view it.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um the middle end, the middle of how we view it.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but uh yeah, uh but I I think um to some degree it is uh an expectation of an experienced paraplanner is to be technically excellent.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think where the top end comes um is is is probably uh really around the, as I think I mentioned, the architect of a client's financial planning.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and someone who is uh, I guess traditionally probably doing a lot of what a financial planner would do in terms of you know starting and building a cash flow model, looking at different scenarios, um, measuring the kind of the client goals to what's possible and achievable, um, and putting all that to putting all that together.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um under the bonnet of all of that is all the technical piece, the analysis of uh you know policies that they've got, the building of you know the right investment strategy behind the bonnet, and as I said, collaborating with the financial planner on those things.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of where I guess the exceptional talent is in our minds.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, love it.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great stuff.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, administration, power planning, financial planner, whatever, you have to use an ecosystem.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: What systems are you using within your business?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully the people listening were either familiar with it or would be willing to learn.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: You talked about cash flow forecasting uh CRMs.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any other tools that you're using within your business where you hope that these people have got, you know, uh a good understanding or can at least turn this turn turn their understanding to it and and use the software that you use, for example?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think um the right kind of person doesn't necessarily need to have in-depth experience in the systems that we use.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to give you an idea, we use uh a US bit of kit called Wealth Box for our CRM, um, which is a fantastic uh piece of technology.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard of that.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's very US focused, but um in as a as a business that is very nimble um but also really likes our kind of workflows and our processes, um, and way that you can delineate you know clear responsibilities between each step of the client journey and who's in charge of that.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that is kind of a central bit of kit for us.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then in terms of the other the other things that we use, we use uh Voint for our cash flow modeling software, uh, we use fundment often as our kind of primary platform and to some degree transact within that, um, but for a more minor set of cases.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we also use, I guess, a best of breed kind of mindset within technology, and the challenge is then getting all those to kind of link up and speak to each other, which is something that we're working on right now.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but those are the kind of the bit the key bits of technology.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um we also often use timeline portfolios um and cash calc as a kind of uh uh an online portal for clients.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so those are the kind of the key uh the key bits.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you in your AI journey?
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Have you implemented any AI at all?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know you've got advisory AI out there as a company.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um you mentioned how you want to communicate across all the different things that you've got.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Advisor AI have now got exclusive arrangement with I've got wealth key or something like that, don't quote me on that.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's got the ability to actually talk across all of your your your your your stack and then pull into the actual AI process, whether that's report, writing, compliance, or whatever.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very, very, very good.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: Are you are you using anything like that from a AI perspective at the moment within your business, or are you at the early stages of adoption?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we're at the early stage.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're speaking to a number of companies on on developing this, and I think it's uh it's a pretty important decision in terms of right which direction we go in.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: We already implement AI within the business already, but more in a piecemeal approach.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's Chat GBT or Gemini, and we're playing around with Claude, um, and uh they all seem to kind of be changing positions month on month, um, depending on what iteration comes out.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, we we we are building it into the business, and every member of staff is kind of has um licenses to kind of to kind of use um AI and and and areas of technology, and also we're asking them, right, where do you think this could come in?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where do you think you could improve the quality and efficiency of of what we're doing here?
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and we're trying it, trialing and testing things out.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, as of yet, we've not got like an overarching AI provider that is uh uh connecting everything and and providing kind of uh full process management, I suppose.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we talked about administration, we talked about power planning.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about financial planning.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody wants to become a financial planner within your business, they want to join you and be a financial planner.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about the opportunity there.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think you've got something called an associate financial planner.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, we do.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, an associate financial planner is I guess a transitional role within the organization over the course of sort of 12 to 24 months, where someone comes in and effectively shadows and learns the ropes of how we deliver advice as an organization, um, gets exposure to lots of different client meetings, uh, the processes that we use, and gradually becomes more ingrained in those client meetings, building up client relationships, um, and over time becoming the lead advisor, as we call it, where they're managing that client relationship.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so what it's not is uh a business development role with sales targets and all that kind of thing.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, usually I think most financial planners that want to go down that road go down like a kind of a self-employed kind of role, and that's uh not what we're geared up to do.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the business is you know generating a number of you know inquiries and new clients and everything, and uh that's the role of the business as we see it with our marketing and our branding work, um, and the kind of the sales stuff that I do, and then that will feed into uh that kind of associate planner over time and uh provide the kind of I guess clients over time to for them to uh manage and and build the relationship with.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it's uh a very sought-after role, as you can imagine.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh it's quite a niche role, but ultimately for the right person that is has the right sort of experience, um, I think is it's a really important role.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and where where we learned from our previous experiences, overpromising and under-delivering within organizations is just rife, I think, within the financial advice world.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the number of people and and and young people I speak to that were promised this from the owner of the organization and it never happened, and uh jumping at the bit to kind of make that step and develop.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I just hear it all the time.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a this is not that.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is very much a kind of a clear plan, a clear transition that involves developing the skills and the abilities, uh, but also um provides a real, a really clear track to run on for that person that wants to become a financial planner.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are they coming in without financial planning experience or are they coming in with financial planning experience?
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: We'll look at all sorts of people.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I think it might be a uh to some degree a step back for someone who's got massive amounts of financial planning experience, worked with clients for 10 years, and then they're going to come in and kind of shadow uh the current advisors.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think that might not be a you know the the the ideal thing for for that kind of person.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's someone who has got some client-facing experience.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they've been uh maybe they've been paraplanning, maybe they've been sat in on client meetings with uh with an advisor, maybe they've done a little bit of advice themselves and maybe you know, don't necessarily enjoy the kind of the hunting uh for new clients kind of thing, but are exceptional actually being a great financial planner, love looking after people, love delivering that exceptional service to uh to clients.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kind of person where I think it's uh it's the sweet spot.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: What about qualifications?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a certain level of qualification you're after?
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Chartered fellow or nothing, or level four is okay?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think working towards some level six qualification.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our advisors right now have the CFP, uh so the certified financial planner designation and the chartered wealth manager, um, which I think is uh for me the gold standard.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that, but I'm biased.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, level six, I think working towards is kind of where we would want someone.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, if we're uh if we're wanting to work with you know really great clients and work on complex cases, I think that's kind of table stakes for us in terms of where that person is going.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, they need to be level four.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, they don't need to be level six.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I think uh um an open-mindedness or uh on the journey to achieving that, I think is really important.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: How does somebody progress, say, from an associate to becoming like a lead financial planner?
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got that scale, haven't we?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they become a lead financial planner.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned 12 to 24 months.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Is that how long it takes to become a lead financial planner?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um just talk to me about the expectation.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if if someone comes in as an uh associate financial planner, they're involved in meetings really from day one.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now they might not be doing a lot in the meetings, they might be more helping the lead advisor prepare, uh, prepare for those meetings and provide the notes and the actions off the back of those meetings, but also be soaking up everything that they're listening to and hearing in those meetings and how the advisor deals with questions, concerns, um, how they communicate different concepts, how they uh, I guess, uh go through and model the financial plan in an easy to understand way for that client.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very much a learning phase initially, I would imagine, for the first kind of three to six months.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: Then the next step is right, now you're gonna get involved.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: You might explain the you know, the current, you know, the investment strategy that we're in.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: You might you might go through and explain and build the financial model and remind the clients of that.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they'll be they'll be getting experience both in kind of the new business and new client sort of journey, and also in uh current clients and the servicing and what we call the annual planning meetings.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they'll be getting a really broad uh array of kind of experience within that.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and over time it's very much a gradual transit transition where they are basically taking more and more part um of those meetings until they've built up relationships with clients and um those clients are effectively asked, Look, you know, how do you feel about Sam becoming your financial your lead financial planner?
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh over the moon.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: Over the moon, yeah.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's really good to hear.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just get on to the salary side of things as well, then.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you've absolutely nailed it with the administrators, you nailed it with the power planners.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about the salary for the associate, but also what does it look like if you remain in the business and become a lead financial planner?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: So on the remuneration side, uh, the associate planner, I guess the range is uh somewhere between mid-50s and mid-80s, again, depending on experience um and the journey through.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: But as I say, it's a transitional role.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you'd hope to sort of you know work through that.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then on the lead financial planner side, um really our our our our kind of range is even broader than that.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's up to 130k.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: But again, this is something that we would evaluate going forward, like it, you know, and often um when you become a lead financial planner, you're also, you know, effectively managing the PL, so to speak, within your within your pod.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so depending on how things are going there, that will impact kind of that that that salary and and and remuneration.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: How are you managing your team within that within that three pods?
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all of these things will go into that.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, fantastic.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um would you consider somebody who's listening to this and saying, well, like I'm not an associate planner, um, I'm uh an established planner.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've actually got some really great relationships.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love the sound of your business, love the sound of your culture.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to join you.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Would you look at somebody who's further on in the journey as a financial planner, or are you only really interested in bringing somebody on who's an associate first?
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's probably a spectrum.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think someone who is more experienced and has some relationships, I think could be a good fit.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think, as I said before, it needs to be the right balance.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the role that we are hiring for and looking at is an associate role.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I, you know, I don't think you know we would be right for someone who has their own client rank and wants to bring that to Fraser James.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably not the model that we are, you know, looking at sort of facilitating.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but someone who has got you know some experience as being a financial planner, um, but wants to uh kind of develop even more and is willing to kind of go through and I guess do it what we call the FJ way.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, we're more than open to kind of having that conversation and seeing if they're the right fit.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just want to ask a little bit about uh remuneration when it comes to financial planner role.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of firms will pay like a bonus, essentially.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, dependent upon, say, a multiple of the person's salary.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say someone's on 40k, they would have to generate 120k before they started earning bonus on top of anything above.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: Very hunter-driven.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sound like that's the kind of it's not like that, no, with us.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's right for some people and with some organizations, um, but ultimately uh that person is salaried.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they are effectively uh, you know, not looking at sort of business development, and that's not really part of their role or remit.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're in charge of delivering an exceptional service to each of the clients that they're there to look after.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and that's and that I think is great for some people, you know, for those people who really just love the financial planning aspect, love building relationships with clients, but aren't necessarily that kind of hunter mindset, and it's not for everyone.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's kind of the right fit for us.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: I also think as well, it kind of reminds me of the evil, I call it like the Evelyn model, say no Evelyn in the company.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they will pay higher basic salaries and then each year people get bonuses.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of get a tap on the shoulder, this is what you've done.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: This is um from a compliance perspective, you ticked all the boxes and you've done this, so we're gonna give you a bonus.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of like a discretionary bonus on top.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: What you find is with people with those types of companies, they do tend to attract a certain type of person that comes in because they value being paid higher as a basic over the potential for bonus.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that does distinct, that does separate the certain type of person that you're looking for.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that person who's like, hunt, hunt, hunt, hunt, hunt, I can do this myself, I can run my own business, yeah.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're not going to be right for you.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's right.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_02: You want the person who wants to come in and feel looking.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just want a good basic salary.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to do a fantastic job.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be trusted.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want to work from home.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're offering all of that for the right person.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that person probably hasn't got crazy aspirations to grow their own business.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Which means they should stay with you along that journey.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anybody within your business you can just give me an example out of, you know, of that's gone on a career journey with you and have and has seen success?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose, yeah, this the proof is in the pudding, isn't it?
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all very well me saying all of this kind of stuff, but but have we seen it?
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um one of our lead advisors at the moment, Lewis, he's been through that whole associate planner pathway.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So he joined us, you know, two-ish years ago and uh was initially shadowing me.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I guess kind of, you know, he had great experience and has worked for some good firms, but was to some degree, you know, frustrated with kind of the progression there.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I, you know, uh it was just the other day he said to me, God, you know, I I'm now I think he's now managing over 60 client relationships.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he's managing his own pod, and uh he is absolutely loving it and he's absolutely flying.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he's been through that transition.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it's worked incredibly well, both for him, for the team, and ultimately for the clients as well.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you what, let's get him back on the let's get him on the podcast, maybe talk about his journey a little bit later on down the line.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'd be a really interesting thing to hear from somebody within your business, especially on the journey.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you obviously are very passionate about what it is you've built.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you and Chris are obviously on onto something quite special.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've had the luxury of really looking underneath the bonnet, getting to know you guys, and I'm really intrigued by your business.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really super interesting.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think you are trying things differently to what is out there at the moment, and you're actually listening to the feedback based on your research as well, and you're providing a career pathway and remuneration and rewards and trust that a lot of companies aren't doing.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you kind of are breaking the mold a little bit within financial planning.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I can only see you really attracting the top-tier talent.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the beautiful thing about that is you get to choose, don't you?
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_02: You get to pick who the right people are that work for your business.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's a privilege to work for a business that actually delivers such good benefits.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So never kind of never bolt, you know, never fold on that.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Always stand a go.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're the top talent is what you're looking for.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: You said it, A plus talent.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: You want A plus talent that just demands like a great deal of trust and reward.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: If that's you and you're listening, reach out because this could be the home for you, regardless of where you are in the UK, right?
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can say it better myself.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_00: We've uh we've learned our lessons on this as well.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now having a team that are, you know, A plus talent and hopefully them feeling like they're A plus rewarded, so to speak.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we are certainly going in the right direction and we're going there quickly.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: So James, I know exactly where to send people from now on.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_02: We're looking for that type of thing.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll be knocking on your doors.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's the recruiter in you as well.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's the recruiter in me.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but the thing is, I love finding people the right home.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_02: It makes them incredibly happy because when they're in the right home, life for them is a lot better.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And financials does play a part in somebody's security.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Of course it does.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: The same as the people they're working with and the environments they're in.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_02: All these things are so, so important.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I like the fact that you're leading uh from that space.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, James, look, Chris wasn't here today.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a great chat with Chris.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Great to talk to you.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so thank you for sharing deeply about your business, what you're up to.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: You've been very transparent, which again, I really, really appreciate because other people might learn a thing or two about this as well.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_02: But uh, you're ahead of the step of the game, so nothing to worry about there, James.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right, fantastic.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Great to speak to you, Sam.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on.