Latest / Freedom Flip / How to Negotiate Equity, Choose Partners, and Value Yourself Properly - EP007

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How to Negotiate Equity, Choose Partners, and Value Yourself Properly - EP007 · Freedom Flip

0:00
I'm gonna hurt them more if I'm not honest in the discussion. And I've told you this, right? So if I need to share something with you that's gonna maybe hurt your feelings or hurt our friendship potentially, but it could really help you, I'm actually selfish if I don't deliver this information to you.
0:16
And I'm selfish because I'm just trying to avoid one bad conversation or short-term damaging our relationship. If I'm saying I can't tell Pablo that his haircut looks dumb, it's going to hurt his feelings. Versus me being like, dude, you're not going to get the job with that f***ing haircut. You got to get a haircut. You know, you may come back at me pissed, but I was a better friend by not being a people freezer. Most people have no f***.
0:37
what they're talking about. What I have found is that I tend to put people too high up. And then I realized, Jesus, what am I doing? These people are just normal humans and very flawed in many aspects. Why am I so afraid of asking a question?
0:52
And now I default more into the I don't give a fly about anything camp. If I'm going to say something and you don't like it and you want to finish the call, should you get a prenup or not? I'm talking about every person right now that is considering to get married. Let me make it easier for you. The woman is running a business, successful business and whatnot. The man, he's an employee in a different company. Should they get a prenup or not?
1:17
Flip it. Let's assume they did not. They got married. After a year, they're not married. She now is forced to sell, likely sell her business. Not necessarily. She can give the shares. And that's it. The person holds shares. If it's 50-50, she's now an employee of her ex-husband. Okay, so in your opinion, the answer is they should. Dude, I had a good discussion today, and you were a good influence on it, about a business that I'm excited about. All right, what happened?
1:44
Are you going to tell me or not? It's in the real estate world. And I've been thinking about doing more in it. It's a really cool opportunity. And this guy, I respect in a huge way. I've known him for a long time. He worked somewhere for 10 years. Didn't realize partnership wasn't the right fit. Next day, Pablo Stiley quit. Didn't know what he was doing. Didn't have a plan, but just felt confident in himself.
2:05
So I met with him and, you know, I was just very clear. I was like, I'm really good at getting things off the ground, getting them started when no one understands what's going on and seeing the pieces and how they fit. I said, I really get bored with scaling. It's just not, it doesn't give me energy. It's not my expertise. I'm not good at it. You know, just keeping the trains on time and being in schedule. That's not my strength.
2:23
Can I interject? Yeah. I think that you're shooting yourself in the foot when you say, I am not really good at scaling. I don't enjoy scaling. That's what I mean to say. No, I don't think that that's true. You do not need to tell when you are in a business dealing at the beginning, when you are in negotiations.
2:40
You don't need to say, I am not good at X or I don't enjoy X. Why not though? Well, it depends what you are doing, right? Depends what you are doing. If this is your idea, if this is your baby and you own 100%, you say like, hey, this is what I am in charge. This is what I am the best. What I need you to do is XYZ. Yeah. What I am looking for is XYZ. Yeah. Which is totally different than say what I hate, what I don't enjoy, what...
3:03
I started with all of that because it is my idea. I have all the resources, the relationships, the knowledge. It's just something that would be very hard to do. It is something that I'm deeply intertwined with for a lot of reasons. So I need one specific skill set. I need someone that can come in that likes real estate, that has experience, that can just do this one thing repeatedly. Like we'll have the cookie cutter and they're just going to rinse and repeat again and again. I don't think that you listen to what I said.
3:26
No need to say that up front. No, no, no. No need to say what I am not good at or what I don't like or what I don't enjoy or what I hate. You don't need to say that. I agree. Fully agree. Okay, you should not say that. Instead. Yeah, give me an alternative. I already told you. You didn't listen. Say, I need somebody to do X, Y, and Z.
3:47
You know what this sounds like? Pablo being my wife. Wah, wah, wah. Capustherapy. He never listens. He never listens. This is why we're doing a divorce. So, okay, what did I say? Share. These are what I need done. These are what I need for the position. End with that. This is my vision. This is what I am going to do. And this is what I am hiring. That's it.
4:08
You don't need to say, I suck, I am terrible or whatever. Don't enjoy, don't love. It's great feedback. Totally irrelevant. Let's rewind. I've done that for three meetings. This is our third or fourth meeting. He expressed to me, hey, I have been in the backseat of a bunch of things where I did everything. I was leading it. But for X, Y, and Z, the CEO spot, you know, wasn't mine.
4:29
I want the opportunity to be the CEO. So what I explained this final part was what I'm loving right now is a chairman, executive chairman position, because I believe the CEO in this startup stage, everything else is going to be in it. I want someone that's in it every day, all day driving this piece forward. That is the position I'm recruiting for. This is what I need to fill for the company.
4:51
You said something along the lines of, I am really good at taking things off the ground. So basically in our language would be taking something from zero to one, right? Something that doesn't really move to something that is walking on its own. But what you don't want, you hate what you don't like, what you're not good at. And you use kind of those words.
5:10
is scaling. And I'll be like, okay. No, you're right. I'm good at it. Basically, you're good at just taking something from zero to 1 million. And you are not good at taking something from 1 million to 100 million, but you want to be the full owner. Like, what? How is this a good deal? And you just want to be the chairman just scratching your nuts all day long while I am working my ass off? F***ing bitter.
5:34
It's good feedback. And I think the challenge is, is it a self-deprecating incorrect or is it true and builds a bond of being transparent around what I don't want to, I don't want expectations to be. All I'm saying is it's incorrect negotiation. It's incorrect. This is the incorrect way of recruiting someone. That's what I'm saying. You are bringing a person that most likely you are going to give...
5:57
equity that invests after milestones and time and whatnot with a lot of conditions. Because he's saying, I want to be on the field. I want to be the f***ing captain. Yeah. And you're like, cool, because I've never been the captain, but I know that I can do it and I want, I'm like,
6:14
Cool. Well, you are able to be the captain. If you are able to be scoring the goals and winning the games and winning the championships and so on, you're going to get what you deserve. Yeah, we can do that. It's just that, again, you mentioned self-replication and maybe it's just you come back to that.
6:30
I think that I have a pretty good system for you. And we can talk about this if you want. But maybe it's also the nature, your nature as complicator. Maybe you just tend to complicate things or I tend to simplify things. And that's why you end up using more words than maybe you need.
6:45
Definitely more words than I need. Should use probably as well. Key part is deeper than that. And this is why I love our podcasts and our discussions is I think it's way deeper than that. I think the deeper part is my wonderful mom with her big heart always saying, you just don't want to hurt people's feelings. And that part of me coming through her that we don't look at, right? Me being 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, hearing, yeah, you don't want to hurt people's feelings. That may trump my own feelings.
7:11
ideal negotiation for me, the business, for the success of the business, whatever it is, prioritizing their lack of discomfort or their comfort over what's best maybe for the business or me, that is the route. That would be the 60, 70, 80% in my mind of most of my discussions.
7:27
So what can you do about it? This is deep, man. And this is what's so powerful, I think, of using business or professional life as a way to evolve oneself and be less of a bad person or, you know, be a better person. So the only thing I've found that's worked for me as a people pleaser, both proclaimed by friends, myself, etc., is realizing I'm going to hurt them more if I'm not honest in the discussion.
7:50
And I've told you this, right? So if I need to share something with you that's going to maybe hurt your feelings or hurt our friendship potentially. No, don't do it. Right? I'm actually selfish if I don't deliver this information to you.
8:03
And I'm selfish because I'm just trying to avoid one bad conversation or short-term damaging our relationship. So when I realize I'm being selfish, I had this epiphany or someone shared it, or it may have been the book Lying that I read that I really liked. Me being selfish is not me caring about you or another person. So if I'm saying I can't tell Pablo that his haircut looks dumb. Hey, wait, the barbershop is closed. What can I do?
8:30
It's going to hurt his feelings, right? Versus me being like, dude, you're not going to get the job with that haircut. You got to get a haircut. You know, you may come back at me pissed, but I was a better friend by not being a people freezer because maybe you did get the job or whatever it is, right? Or this shirt isn't whatever this information is in the same way. And you challenged me on this in a positive way.
8:48
If I'm negotiating for a business, me being honest and saying, hey, man, if we negotiate in this way, I think I'm going to be resentful because I know what I bring to the table. This is my plan. You are a key person to fulfill this, but I can go find another key person to do that. And that's not a threat. That's just a factual piece. And as we're growing, if we're beyond whatever the split is, right?
9:08
that seems appropriate based on all the value and knowledge that I deem, I'm not gonna be a good partner. I'm gonna be frustrated, gonna set us up and it has nothing to do with you. It's not your fault. It's me not fighting for what is appropriate with my knowledge, my experience, my capital, all of these resources I bring. To me, that's the way where it's true
9:25
It's real and it's shining a light on, hey, we may have already discussed this. I was not in a good place. I was prioritizing you feeling good. I want to be a good partner. I don't want us to be in trouble in five years. Let's tweak this. Let's make sure you perform. As long as you're doing that, you still get to the same point. But I want to make sure that's two years out as you've delivered on these things. One thing that I want to do eventually, whenever you're ready, is just to sit down with you and draft the whole family office architecture.
9:55
Sounds awesome. I have the sensation that you are building it from the ground up rather than from the top down. And I think that that might be the reason why you always undersell yourself. And I think it's a very common scenario where we are not valuing ourselves fully. Or we have some little kid in the back of our mind that's still playing some playbook. Another thing that you tend to say is that you are a people pleaser. You are a people pleaser. You are a people pleaser. Were you born a people pleaser? No, I think that's a learned behavior.
10:25
Okay. Do you want to keep being a people pleaser? No, I think the term comes off derogatory or that you're allowing to be walked all over or you're prioritizing others in a way that creates a lot of times resentment. And I see that in a lot of people that do that. My solution is, can I get to the root of whatever the heck is in my head? Hopefully. I would love to. Until then, it's what are the small hacks you can change that trigger it, right? That make us aware, wait a minute. Oh, okay.
10:52
I know this playbook, automatically do X. What is X? Me communicating to someone, hey, I know we talked about X. I'm realizing this is going to build resentment in me or I know my execution is higher. What about why? Yes, so can I give you a suggestion on that? Instead of saying, I am a people pleaser,
11:10
That's one option. That's not my suggestion. My suggestion would be that you say, I have the tendency of doing X, Y, Z, but I am working to change that. So when you say people pleaser, it's like a massive thing, right? You are painted. Label. Labeled, done. But if you say, I realize that I tend to really undervalue myself in negotiations and I'm working to change that. Yeah. Or I realize that I...
11:37
tend to give more than what would be the right thing to give because I fear other people's feelings, but I'm working to change that. That's great. So that way you are narrowing it down to the thing that you are working on.
11:53
Because you're like, oh, I'm giving too much. Okay, I'm working to change that. What is the work? It's the flip. It's the opposite. Not to give too little, but it's to give less than whatever you are giving right now. Or you are valuing yourself less. The answer is the flip. You need to value yourself more. That's how you go to the level of equilibrium. Have you had this problem ever? Is this something you've worked through? I'm perfect. I was born perfect, you know.
12:17
Yeah. You know, I was blessed in this life to be born with no problems. And I gotta say, it's tough to see other humans struggle with this. Yeah. What an idiot. Idiot. So stupid. Just do it. You know, just. That's good. Of course. I struggle with a million things. Yeah.
12:34
But is this one of the things you've struggled with or no? Undervaluing myself? Yeah. I don't think that anymore, but I think that in the past, oh, this is why I also love business, like you say, because such an incredible vehicle to know about oneself, know yourself, it's just wonderful. And when I looked at negotiations, when I looked back in the past, when I remember negotiations that I had in the past, when I remember interviews, when I remember questions that I asked, it
13:00
Man, the amount of things that I did not ask, the amount of things that I did not say because of fear, because the other person in front of me is wearing a nice suit and I'm sure that they have nice cologne. And therefore, I'm pretty sure that they went to a very nice university and I didn't. Maybe a nice watch. But no, that changes. But all I'm saying is it brings up insecurities. It's more like, but if this person is in this position, most likely they know more than me. And what I realized is that it's totally the opposite.
13:29
Most people have no clue what they're talking about. And especially if they are employees and they are very well dressed and they are... And again, nothing wrong with all employees in the world. I'm just saying some of them that I dealt with, that's what I have found is that I tend to put people too high up. And then I realized, Jesus, like, what am I doing? These people are just normal humans and very flawed in many aspects. Why am I so afraid of asking a question?
13:58
And now I default more into in the I don't give a fly about anything camp. If I'm going to say something and you don't like it and you want to finish the call. Good. Fantastic. Great. Man, that's so good. That is not a strength of mine yet. It's not perfect. I don't want to make it sound like it's perfect. But that's where I am aiming towards all the time. Almost all the time. How many times has that happened? What do you mean? You come at somebody with truth. They can't handle the fire. And they're like, we should end the call. Have you had it happen?
14:27
Not like that. No. I also don't have many calls with people. You hate people. I'm not involved in the day-to-day of the business. So I'm not having recurring calls with people. Maybe one here, one there. Also, I find it very good for me. What works for me is I look back at my story and I said, dude, what are the odds that this happened to me and that I am here sitting where I'm sitting today? I'm like, wow. So thin.
14:52
We should calculate that. But all this to say that what I tend to do is I just flip it to the opposite. Instead of coming and saying like, oh my gosh, I am this guy from Argentina, didn't finish university, blah, blah, blah. To be like, dude, I am the guy that came from nowhere. Wow. And I am sitting in this table with all these people. I'm like, dude. Mic drop.
15:13
Now, I understand that he may sound like cocky, and it is a little bit, but in a good way. Not to say these people are idiots. You said I came from this, right? It's the gap and the gain. That's a great part from the book, right? I'm looking at the gap that I covered. Now I'm thinking about the gain from this next step. I can do this next step. Look at that huge gap behind me.
15:32
That's what I use in case I feel some insecurity or something. I just flip it in my head. Yeah. Because that part that is, let's say, being insecure is not myself. It's a part inside of me. Yeah. It's a fearful part inside of my brain, inside of somewhere. Okay, then just flip it. When did you start doing that? Do you remember an age or a period of time? Or was it a slow muscle you built up?
15:57
Yeah, slow muscle. I don't have an on-off moment that, oh, now I started doing this that I remember. But I would say that it was especially during the last 11, 12 years of building my business. That's when I started acquiring a lot of self-made tools to develop certain skills in order to be able to perform in a certain way.
16:17
I think this is something that's not communicated enough, or at least I don't see enough, which is seeing business, which is really ideally serving another. We're providing a product to serve others. Or a service, yes. Or a service. If I'm not providing a product or service to serve others, then I go bankrupt. Beautiful. It taught me a great lesson. I'm not solving them. I think flipping that to realize, well, how do you serve others better? It's knowing yourself better.
16:40
knowing how you are operating in this world, what you can and can't do, what you need a partner for, what service you're going to be getting, and knowing yourself well to say, I would be terrible at this, or I don't think I'd enjoy doing this. Okay, find a partner, find a joint venture, find an employee, someone to help me do this. You're evolving upwards in a spiral way. That's what we want. That's the greatest adventure is to know yourself better spiraling up in this way.
17:04
Yeah, and I would maybe take it a step farther, which is basically any role that we are playing in the outside world, that is an opportunity for us to learn about ourselves and to improve ourselves. Because whatever traumas we are carrying, whatever advantages, disadvantages, or whatever you call it,
17:23
are bringing to that role, they are going to show up in that role, period. So anything that we are doing, so it's not just, oh, you are the business owner. It's like, no, it's already the CEO, the COO, or anyone in the company.
17:37
You are interacting with people. You are interacting, even if it's a solopreneur, you're interacting in some shape or form with someone, clients, with your product, with your service, and seeing those interactions. To me, that is the opportunity for us to learn about ourselves and to improve and to make ourselves better. Absolutely.
17:56
Okay, so to wrap it all up, when we're negotiating for equity, a business, a job raise, whatever it is, know yourself, know what you may be carrying from childhood trying to please people or a former tendency to please people, whatever it is. And your solution has been one conversation at a time. Build the muscle to flip it and not assume the person on the other side knows everything is invincible, has everything figured out.
18:21
actually flip it and assume they don't know. They don't know it at all. Now, you may even know more than them because of your experience in X, Y, and Z. And we're oftentimes wrong on that. We take this insecure backseat, fearful backseat. So imagine, just to give you an example, right? Imagine I go, clearly English is not my first native language, my mother tongue, so that's Spanish. So I go to an event in the USA and I am up on a stage.
18:48
And I speak with an accent and I make grammar mistakes and I can beat myself down so much. I have all the things to beat myself down. I can do that. Or I can do the opposite, which is...
19:04
Dude, I am here sitting on a stage. Like these people maybe drove 30 minutes. I traveled all around the globe to be here. I went through this, this, this, this, and all these different things in my life. So what I'm saying is on one side, some part of me is just punching myself down. And then it's like, that's not what I want. Let's just flip it. How can I bring myself up and gain that confidence? And for me, it's with truth. It's like, yeah, I have an accent. Yeah, I make grammar mistakes. But look where I am.
19:33
I love that. I would switch but to it's because I came from here. And here's the story. Because I've overcome all these things. I traveled across the world to learn a second language, to learn how to do a business in a different continent. Because of that, but to me is in spite of or it's a kind of a bringing down. It's because of. That's what builds us up.
19:55
is the unique story because I hadn't been outside of my home country until I was 30. Whatever these stories are, right? Whatever our experiences are. Because of that, I have this huge gap or this huge level up on most humans. So how can you flip it for you with this thing that you used to say to yourself that you are people pleaser, which is basically punching yourself down? Really good challenge. I think the start is to say, because I've had all these experiences, I've sold a bunch
20:23
businesses, I've failed on, you know, 40 ideas that I've worked on, because I've done all of these things, I'm more likely to have success the next thing I do, which almost everyone I partnered with talked about partner with just doesn't have as many repetitions, positive or negative, like I have, I have way more losses, and I have way more wins, both of which are valuable in my in my opinion, because of these, this gap, like yours,
20:47
Anything I'm working on is going to have a much higher probability of success, which yes, somebody could say is cocky. I would say it's confident based on data, based on I can walk you through receipts. Cocky to me is confidence without support to it. It's like a blind confidence. It's a empty confidence, as well as talking when you don't need to, right? Adding this. Nobody really cares. Well, that's different than someone who's talking about partnering with me or being an employee, or this is someone who wants to actually understand they're seeking out
21:15
my receipts and my knowledge. If you're just a guy on the street, I'm like, I'm rich and I've done well, right? That's cocky. That's unnecessary. They don't care. They're not interested in it. Confidence is somebody who wants to know. One more thing that I want to say is I think that you should stop partnering with people.
21:29
Tell me more. In your mind, so here is very interesting, right? I, in this business, I have no partners whatsoever. I clearly, I did not need a partner to make it happen. In your previous business, you had partners. In my previous business, I started alone with one guy. And then eventually he's like, hey, this went really well. The next event, I want to be a shareholder. I'm like, okay, small amount, smaller amount.
21:58
60-40, I mean, it's a big amount. But I said, but you need to do a lot of work. So then we ended up 50-50, but it was a perfect, perfect, perfect split and combination that we had because the amount of work that we put in order to make it happen. In my previous business, I had no partners. It was just me doing everything. So the very first one, no partners. Then you had a 50-50, it ended up being 50-50, and now you have no partners, I'm correct. Those are three major examples, roughly. Yeah.
22:25
And I'm talking about from my first business from the age of 19, 18 till now at 41. So in my head, when I am thinking about something new, I am not thinking like I need partners. In your head, when you're starting something new, for whatever reason, you are thinking, I need a partner. Now, I would say I need an employee for sure.
22:46
But I do not default into I need a partner. But you do. Just something that I noticed. Yeah, it's a really good spot. I had a good breath after you said it. Good breath? Yeah, as in you hit something. You hit something deep. Everything I've done that's gone well, from starting dance parties in high school, had a great partner. Richest I ever felt.
23:06
You know, we'd make $5,000 to $10,000 a night, gym, fog machines, dancing. Awesome. And so maybe that, maybe because that went so well, and it was such a clear, he wanted to be the face. He wanted to be the guy that was popular for it. Great. I wanted to be in the background. I was a student government nerd. I would do logistics management, set things up. It was a beautiful partnership. I think it's a myth that most people are on their own. I think most people have a partner.
23:32
Now, whether that's an employee partner or an equity partner. Of course, wait a second. Don't get too philosophical here. When you're talking about partner, you're talking about... Equity, for sure. For sure. Let me clarify again. I think most people still have an equity partner, the large majority. Whether that's right or wrong is an interesting discussion. I'm just saying in most businesses. Even when it's one, like I think about in the business groups I've been in, the only ones that I know are individual now, they bought out a partner later on.
23:59
There was at some point there was an equity partnership, but it's a deep thought of why is that? Now here, let me flip it. Let's try and flip it back. I do think there are extraordinary humans who are confident in their own skills that are not going to want to go forward without an equity opportunity. And the question is, is that worth it, right? Assuming they prove. What's the question? Would you partner with those, the people that are truly the top 1%?
24:24
Great question. Do they have proof of work? Great. Let's say yes. Then yes. You would be, in those instances, equities on the table, negotiators. Yeah, of course, Peter. Of course. Great. Then we agree. Because you're talking about two people that are at the same level. Same level is a hard thing, right? To me, that's a communist term. A little bit like this. A little bit like this. They're both accomplished. Yes, exactly. So for me, if a person...
24:46
As an example, sold a business for $20 million and another person sold a business for $23 million. They were the sole shareholder. Even 50, 60, 100, they've made an exit of eight figures. This is a category of major success. My question to you is,
25:02
The people that you speak with, do they have proof of work of being successful shareholders, not employees, shareholders? Great question. I know. Let me say two things. One, you're right. What do you mean? There are examples where they did not in my past. That has been a tendency.
25:18
My new rule has just been after I started a small venture that's gone really well with just a truly incredible human, and he just has delivered beyond what I could ever imagine. I just have a new rule to myself. If I don't think they're world class, out the door. It's just life's too short. To me, one step would be world class is have they been broken? Because if they've been broken at some point in their life, then they don't fear being broken. They've gone down to the depths of their soul to dark caves. They've been in the worst place ever, and they've come back. So they're not that scared to go do it again.
25:48
And number two would be they have had some form of professional success. Whether or not that means as an equity partner, you know, now I'm like the most recent thing I talk about. He did. He had a single digit percentage of the firm and all of his opportunities are in an equity position. There you go. Right. So you're talking, let's just talk about this specific person, employee with opportunity to get equity. And did he cash out?
26:13
That's the complicated thing that, you know, can't go on on this. He got zero. The question is, was he successful? Yes. Did he monetize beyond the salary that incredible achievement?
26:25
I think that that is the important part. So for me, very simple. You do not give something to someone that does not have proof of work. That's it. Don't do it. Life is too short. Makes no sense to do it. Why would you do it? You know, it's so fascinating to tie together parallels. Proof of work. Why do we love Bitcoin? Because there's proof of work of how it was created converting energy into a currency.
26:46
I don't love Bitcoin. I don't have Bitcoin. I have no idea what Bitcoin is. Well, you'll figure it out. You'll learn about it at some point. Warren, Charlie and Bill Gates say that it's bad. So I just trust the experts.
26:58
Come back to negotiating. So to sum up, negotiation. There is no negotiation. This is my whole point. Here, there is no negotiation. This is the groundbreaking, mind-blowing realization. There's no negotiation. You are going to do something. You think that maybe he could be a great match, but you will get it done with or without him. So here is the deal that you find that is adequate, that makes sense, and you take it or you don't.
27:28
That's it. It's beautiful. Let's play out. Somebody says, hey, man, this is exciting. I'm excited about the role. This is not. I'm looking for more. I've got this experience. I've already delivered on X, Y, and Z. Yeah. I'm going to deliver it, right? I know I can deliver this, this part of the vision. I'd love to be at whatever, 20, 30% of the business. But you mean out of the gate or after delivering it?
27:49
After delivery, you could do either one. No, no, no, either one. It's totally different. I know it is, but I'm saying they might ask for either one. So if they ask out of the gate, you say, no, here are the milestones of it. In order to role play, I need to know exactly what am I role playing with, right? So if he says out of the gate, I would be like, well...
28:06
No, but don't worry because you just told me that you are 100% sure that you're going to deliver. So you're fine. You're going to get it. You first deliver and then you get the equity. And then you can see the face of the person change most likely. So in my opinion, you do not give equity.
28:25
to employees out of the gate makes no sense it's not a software business guys okay so just don't don't kill us in the comments if you want to kill us in the comments just just mention what have you done in your company okay i want to i want to hear examples and if not just okay thank you is there any scenario or what is a scenario you imagine having a partner out of the gate is that a scenario you would ever do or you don't see that
28:46
Yeah, it's similar proof of work. Got it. Dude, it's beautiful. That's it. I would say it's similar proof of work, but also similar determination and intensity to the mission that we are embarking together. That's deep.
29:00
Because if I'm going to be embarking this mission with one energy and with one determination and with one speed and the other person is kind of like flimsy about it, then no. Then it's not going to work out. Then it's like, no, this is my thing, not yours. I also think it comes back to a good rule I love. Sorry. And I think that this is your problem is that you don't have the determination in order to get it done. And somehow you tie...
29:25
that project, that idea, that business to a human. Yeah, totally. This is why you become a little b**** and you end up lowering your pants and giving everything to the person. The point I was going to say was a little different wording, but, you know, a similar concept. Well, Peter, you went to university, you know, I didn't.
29:42
Having three options. I mean, you think about, so I studied finance. Most financial models, you go downside, base case, and upside. So what happens if it goes poor? Kind of basic expectations, whatever goes well. Even all options that are major in life, you should have three. Even starting a business. Hey, I've got, this person could be a partner. This could be an employee out the gate. This could be a company I just use to do it. I'm literally running through these iterations on this right now. That's brilliant. Whenever we set on one, as you said, a person...
30:09
or any path without zooming out, looking at three doors, we've cut ourselves short. And another one also, I love the three ideas, the three options, but another idea is to say, would I still do it even if the person says no to me? That's a beautiful framework. And if the answer is no, then you don't have the conviction and you should definitely leave it. Forget about it. Forget about it. Don't do it because you don't have enough determination to,
30:38
in order to chew glass whenever you will need to chew glass to get it done. And for me, it was very simple, very clear when our group of friends, we were thinking about doing something together. And they're like, Peter doesn't do it. Would you still do it? I'm like, no. But then on the other thing that I started, it's like, hey, if this other person doesn't, I'm like, yeah, I will still do it. It would be great that the person comes along for the ride. Yes, it would be awesome. It would be awesome. But the person doesn't want to, man, I don't give a shit when I get it done.
31:05
Yeah. Dude, what a good flip. I think it's a flip. It's not thinking, will they do it? It's thinking, what if they don't do it? You just flipped it backwards. Let's assume the worst. They bail, they drop, they fail, whatever it is. Would I still go forward? Yeah. Okay. Let's go. If I'd stop, I should never get started. Flip it. So let me ask you a question. How many businesses ideas you have? You have this one, let's call it real estate, right? Yeah. I have a real estate. So this is real estate. I have one other in real estate.
31:33
Can you say another word to differentiate them? Let's call it a real estate hedge fund. It has unique. The first one's a real estate healthcare. The second one's a real estate hedge fund. Okay. Another one that you're analyzing right now? The last one is a holding company of world-class businesses that should never sell. Good. And the sex shop, you're not going to do that one? You know, did some proof of work, trial, not a good fit.
32:00
It was very painful, right? The proof of work? Too much blood. Too much blood. Okay, so you have these three ideas. It hurts. You have the real estate healthcare, real estate hedge fund, and then the holding company for incredible businesses. Are you considering partners? All of them, some of them. Try to keep your answers short. The hedge fund, no. Not right now.
32:22
You are considering to do it alone, basically. Correct. Okay. The real estate, healthcare, considering a partner, maybe a similar setup on the operating side too of somebody who has proof of work on the other side of it. And then the holding company to be determined, not right now, I'm not considering, because the partners would be business owners. So I already have that checked in a big way. It is a partnership of amazing business. Yeah, but I mean the holding company. Not on the operating, no.
32:49
Okay. Interesting that you're not considering anyone. That's good. Good. I look, I don't want to over, I don't want to try and tout my horn. Do I think this is still a tendency I've done in the past that I could fall victim to any point? Yes. Is it one that I'm currently in discussions with anyone or actively pursuing that path? No. Is it, is it a hole I could fall in? Yes. Have I fallen in the hole? No, you will not fall in any hole. Okay. Don't, don't plant those things in your mind. All right. Next topic.
33:20
Have you read Never Split the Difference that you don't read? Have you heard of the book? I didn't read it. I listened to it. What did you think? Garbage. What? Shut up. Are you lying or serious? It's like one of the best books I've ever read.
33:34
I was like, no, you didn't listen to it. You just didn't even consume it. No, I listened to the book multiple times. And I took a lot of notes. It's really good. Love the book. I was just remembering because I've not. Then I tried to use it. Actually? No, I'm kidding. But it's so hard. It's so hard because they're all flips. Yeah.
33:54
Well, no, but it's hard to implement it, at least for me, because especially I was dealing with potentially selling my business. It's such an emotional roller coaster. I told you to read this book when we met. No, no, I already read the book. Okay. Are you sure? You cannot take, how do you call this? You cannot claim. I feel so clear on this. You said, I'm negotiating on the business. Do you have any tips? I said, this is the best book to read on negotiation.
34:20
I need to start looking at our conversation because I feel like I'm going to have a record. But you know I'm too lazy to go dig it. Did you also tell me to start my business? Yeah. Yeah. I was in your ear. And I said, Pablo, who are you? Leave Argentina. It's time. Who are you? Pablo, I'm the yoga instructor you always wanted. Leave your yoga class. Let's wrap up. I'm getting bored.
34:42
negotiation to me, a couple of key things are do the opposite. When you're trying to chat with someone, don't try and get them to say yes. Try and get them to say no. Chris Voss has these amazing clips. Oh, I love it. Would it be crazy for us to do X? No, I understand the phrases. Do you remember why he said that? You didn't read the book. I read the book. Do you disagree? I just think that you, at the stage that you are, I don't think that you should negotiate.
35:04
I agree. You are right. Confirmed. This is more in a supplier relationship and a new first customer and a whatever it is. Let's switch topics.
35:17
I think what you just did, what we just did with me is powerful. And I still love the idea of bringing in people with proof of work that are in transformative period in their business. What is bringing in? Bringing in what? Interviewing them. Oh my God, so boring. You think so? Why? Because it's like just too much hearing them make mistakes?
35:37
Let's just take a step back. So, okay, guys, we're going to be talking right now about do we bring people to interview them or not? Yeah. The question that I have for you, Peter, is what do you want to achieve people coming to the show and getting interviewed? Two things, maybe three. One, I feel fulfilled when I watch an open-minded, growth-oriented person have that breakthrough.
35:58
But that's not an interview, Peter. That is a counseling session. That is a mentoring session. Well, it's not interview. That's not interviewing. That's a different thing. Then let's swap out the word. Dude, English is your language, not mine. No, it's my second language. Unbelievable. So what's a different word than interview? Intervention. This is it. It's an intervention. Okay. So I get excited. I think you're a little more blunt with your precision.
36:24
It depends who. This is what I would say. Depends who. I personally don't really get much enjoyment of doing interventions anymore, even though I've done it for so, so long, for people that are on the run-up. I don't really get much enjoyment on that. Now, different stories. Someone that has a lot of proof of work, meaning that person has a lot of leverage. This person can, with that conversation, this person now is changing everything.
36:54
Completely agree. I watched you have a very deep conversation with a guy about his...
36:59
marriage, he's dominating life on a lot of fronts. He's not dominating his marriage. He's getting dominated. It's just not going well. That conversation to me is so fascinating to shine lights on these dark corners that no one gets to hear. If I were a 14 year old boy and I'm like, I wonder what it's going to be like when I'm married. Like, man, I wish I could have been a fly on a wall to listen to the conversation. That the kind of stuff that really fires me up.
37:27
That's why I had that conversation. That's why I pushed the way that I pushed. That's why I gave the tools that I gave because I'm fired up with that kind of conversation. Now, this guy is, as you said, a person that is winning almost everywhere in his life except for that area.
37:45
This person has a lot of proof of work. This person is not on the run up. Maybe he will make it. Like, no, this person, I can see proof that this person have...
37:59
accomplish so many things in so many areas of their life. And this one is just crumbling down. So for me, it's very easy to be like, okay, got it. He did it in all these areas. He can do it here. Do you see, I am starting a conversation with a person that I can see the proof of work. A lot of proof of work. As you know, especially the younger they are, without proof of work, the older people are without proof of work. Good luck, brother. Good luck. All the best. Not what I want to be doing. Good luck to you, Peter.
38:29
Now, the younger, especially if they are getting some success on a top line level, they are not quite there yet for me to spend my time. Dude, just go and listen to Tony Robbins. You're going to do great. Don't bring my dad into this. I know he's better than me, Pablo. They don't need the f***.
38:45
Second-hand Chinese version of Tony Robbins. The Shane Temu. Why is the screen turned upside down? Why is his head at the bottom and his feet? Ah, it's cheaper. It's still the video. You get the point. So you get a lot of excitement of mentoring the young generations and the people without proof of work. I don't. Not anymore.
39:08
Again, I used to. Let me clarify. Your level of proof of work is different. I would say that I am still in the same boat of I want to work with, interview, help people that have a proof of work. For me, I mean, I've started a whole nonprofit around high school hustle. These kids that go out and generate $20,000 in a summer, they're in the top 1% of high school kids from a business perspective and knowing themselves usually.
39:29
I get excited by that because I see this trajectory that's so aggressive. And just shifting them from here to there is really cool. But there's a difference between that and interviewing them in a podcast. Sorry, not interviewing them, doing an intervention. So I have zero interest of doing an interview. Zero. I don't want to be interviewing people. Like, no.
39:53
No, we'll call them interrogations or interventions or whatever we want to use. No, I may do an exception for Elon or for Jeff Bezos. I may do an, I have to check it, but I have to check with my calendar. Let me check my calendar.
40:06
But yeah, I just want to work with people that want to win in life. I want to play alongside with people that want to win in life. And for that, I need to be sparring with someone that is more or less at my level. And I am more or less at their level. And I don't mean to be like, I am better. No, no, no. But I mean, there is a difference. 41-year-old Pablo, I do not want to be sparring with 21-year-old Pablo.
40:35
Oof, that's deep. I really like 21-year-old Pablo, so, you know, give him a shot. But what about 20-year-old Peter? Yeah, killer. There you go. Well, we are different. You won that. I don't want to interview anyone. I do get excited about interrogating or...
40:54
you know, intervening on some of these guys that are high potential with proof of work. Let me clarify. The 1% of business people, regardless of age, are interesting to me. This is a better way to reframe it. Maybe it's because you are an extrovert. So therefore, you don't care if you speak with a thousand people.
41:13
Yeah, it gives me more energy. Let's do a perfect example. You said, hey, I'm looking for a really exemplary human when we were together at the event conference in Las Vegas. You come to me as a filter. You're like, he likes talking to people. Maybe he'll get, boom, we text the one person. He comes up. We have an amazing conversation with him. Yes. So I think part of this is you like me as a filter to find interesting, incredible humans. Well, think about this, right? You spoke with, you know, 200 people.
41:43
Yeah, probably right. That you spoke with them and you couldn't name only one. You had a very specific filter, right? Yeah, which is the only one that I'm interested in. For what you were looking for. Yeah, I mean, that's a bad sign. It's not bad or good. All I'm saying is this is a great insight of you want, you like speaking with a bunch of people. I just want to speak with a very, very targeted kind of people.
42:11
Well, so here's another example that's interesting to think about. I have this guy coming, really interesting guy. I'm fascinated about getting in his head about getting married, having kids and starting a family. It appears he's crushed everything else in life. And there's like, there's an opportunity to kind of intervene, have an intervention to dig into something like this.
42:29
And I haven't preempted this discussion with him in any way. It just popped in my head of he and I are probably going to sit down. We're probably going to talk about this. And capturing this to me is so powerful, right? To dig into just because there's real trade-offs, right? These aren't just black and white decisions for most men, especially ones as accomplished as him.
42:47
I'm interested in speaking with people, having deep, deep, real conversations with people that are truth seekers, that are growing and want to win in all areas of life, and that have a proven track record of getting done slash being successful. That's it. Anything else at this moment? Not interested. Thank you. Watch a cassette of Tony Robbins. You're good. Or speak with Peter. Whatever.
43:14
Forget the Chinese knockout version. For $9.99, you can get little Tony's ideas. It's good. So, truth seeker, true receipts of doing cool stuff, and they want to kill it in all areas of life. Those three things. Yeah, for me, it's important that the person has a growth mindset. And the growth mindset, just to be more specific, it's not only I want to grow, I want to get better. It's like, no, no, you've been working.
43:43
on yourself. You've been working on these areas of your life and you want to excel on these areas of your life. So as an example, one pillar of what I call an ultra life is relationships. So I have personally no interest in speaking with a person that we cannot speak about something about his or her relationship. Like, no, you know what? I'm not interested. Yeah, I know. I know that I have a horrible relationship with my wife. Not interested in talking about this. You know what? No.
44:11
Like, okay, bye. See ya. Yeah. And yes, you may say like, well, Pablo, that's on you. Maybe he doesn't know you. Maybe he's like, yeah, okay, fine, good. Yeah. There's just not enough time. Why wouldn't you just find the person that does, that's open to it? Why would I waste my time and make the other person waste their time if they don't want to talk about things?
44:33
Now, there are ways and ways, right? There are ways to say like, you know what? This is a very sensitive topic right now for me. I've been struggling with this. And right now, I don't feel that it's the right time. But I would love to address this. But right now, it's not the right time because I am very emotional about it. Okay, cool. You want to work on this. Right now, it's not the right time. Okay, perfect. That makes sense. Respect that.
44:53
But how many times did you have conversations with people that are like totally closed? Their brain is calcified. Dude, that's what I'm checked out of. Just way too many hours. It's embarrassing to realize it took me 35 years to just realize why.
45:09
shift, just go around, just say, okay, cool. And just move on. I think it's realizing that most humans don't want to change, right? The large majority of humans want to just stay hitting their head against the wall on that topic.
45:24
Well, that's interesting to say that maybe you're right in the large amount of 8 billion people, 9 billion people. But I think that in the places that we go, the conventions that we go, the conferences that we go and whatnot, people are there usually because they want to improve in something.
45:40
That's totally true. What I'm saying is I wasn't part of these groups. But even though we go to these conferences, and again, it's not that we are talking about we are going to Tony Robbins, right? You go to a day with destiny, Tony Robbins. Everyone is there working on themselves. Now we're talking about we go to a conference, the all-in conference, right? Like, oh, these people are here. They're interested in learning about this, learning about this, learning about this. Okay, cool. But are they really interested in developing themselves?
46:08
Because I am interested in that. And I just want to work on that. And I just want to brainstorm and I want to play ping pong with a person that is going to reciprocate. And it's going to be playing with me rather than throwing the racket in my head because he thinks that we are playing a different sport. He thinks that we are playing darts instead of ping pong and he's throwing the racket in my head. It's like, no, what are we doing? I don't want that.
46:32
Yeah, dude, I can't tell you how many times I tried to convince people on investments, business, whatever. And it's just you look back on how many wasted hours it are. And this is a great flip to use that we've talked about is to start with. I mean, I think we talked about this over maybe before we even had the podcast. The three things of ask them, is there anything that would change your mind?
46:52
If it's no, great. Already solved. Let's say someone says like, oh, Bitcoin is rat poison. So Bitcoin is rat poison. And then what you say is, what you ask is, is there anything that would change your mind? And then usually if they are very calcified, which usually comes with age and maybe potentially being successful in other things, it's like, oh, there is rat poison because it doesn't have intrinsic value. And because la, la, la. It's like,
47:20
Well, I did not ask you that. I did not ask you your opinion about... You do a great job on that. You didn't answer the question. You didn't answer my question. You know when you do the best job with that, Pablo? Is when you do it in a soft way. Because there's two different ways Pablo does this. One is, you didn't answer my question. The other way is, okay, yeah, thank you. So...
47:38
the question, can you answer this one of just come back to it, right? Each one, because if it comes hard, then they put up even more of a wall and it's like downward spiral, but occasionally they're open. Well, I always, I always, almost always, unless I really don't care about the person, I do not let them off the hook. Yeah, that's, that is true. I'm going to ask you three times the same question. No problem. Okay. So when they say, no, nothing's going to change my mind.
48:06
All right. Nice to meet you. Bye. Cheers. And if you're stuck sitting next to him at an event, just change the topic. I would not change the topic. I would just get the f***. That's me. That's next level. Because for me, it's like, okay, that's it. Little boys and girls, he's right. Because the hard people, they're going to be like, well, it's my Uncle Bill. Or it's my Uncle Ted. Or it's Cousin Susie. Or it's the person I sit next to at work.
48:30
Yeah, see you in the next live. Not in this one. Bye. That's it. That is deep. I mean, it's ultimately... Okay, so that's one. See you in the next live. Okay, let's go another sincere. They're like, you know what? If I got really compelling evidence, sure, I'll change my mind. But step two... Well, who told you this? My mom. She's always right. She watched it in CNBS. Saw it on a TV. TVs don't lie. This is fact. So I think that...
48:56
The right order was number one is how many hours did you spend studying this topic? I was thinking you start with would anything change your mind? If it would, then you move to hours because that shows how little they know or how little time they spent. Just to wrap up, the second one is how many hours did you spend studying this specific topic? And studying doesn't include...
49:19
whatever tweet you saw or whatever headline of the mainstream media you saw or no, no, head down starting this situation, this topic, this investment, this company, this whatever. Meaning what is your proof of work? Do you have any proof of work? Yeah. Oh, you are just regurgitating nonsense from the media. Okay. You have no proof of work. So this is not going to be very fair that we have this conversation. Yeah. Because I spent a thousand hours studying this and I'm not saying that I am right on everything, but...
49:48
Yeah, the way I've approached that is I don't think I'll be able to compress my thousand or so hours into this 30 minute conversation. What I can do is recommend start with this book and we can have a conversation as soon as you finish. I think that when someone says, I try to always make it very binary to keep it simple for my brain, even though I know that there are grays.
50:08
If someone says, yes, of course, there is something that will change my mind. Yeah. If I see evidence and he gave you a very compelling answer, you're like, okay, we can have a conversation. I'm not going to be bashing you. And I may ask the question, how many hours? I'm like, well, I maybe...
50:25
20 hours. Oh, cool. What did you do? Oh, I read this book. I did this. I did this. Fantastic. Okay, great. So let me ask you, what is your biggest question about this topic? So that way you can have, you can spar. You can have a sparring session with the person. I don't want to unless. Well, he wants. I don't care. No, Peter.
50:46
No, I'm serious. This is my goal. My goal is to say there's gates that open. So the first gate is when anything changed your mind. Yes, gate open. No, gate doesn't open. We're not moving on, right? They get through that first gate, the second gate, right? To get into the house. Let's think of it. So the first one's onto the driveway. Do you plug in the right code to get on the driveway?
51:05
And that's a simple, would anything change your mind? No, sorry, you're not allowed on property. Stay out of my mental property. See ya. Second gate comes to how much have you researched? If you haven't researched, you don't get in my house. You're not coming into this home, this physical home. The gate doesn't open.
51:20
It's out. The reason I respond strongly, at least for me, I'm not going to speak for everyone. I did debate. I was a state champion. I love this stuff. When I started going on the debate, two hours passed. I'm like, what? What? It's like getting on social media. My mind is weak because I don't have social media anymore. I can't touch it or else I end on the wrong path. All right. They got into my house. They get into my brain.
51:43
I don't want that. This is my own, this is the breakthrough that, you know, I think this was your framework, or at least one we talked through was just, if I have these two gates, then I never end up going down that path. They never end up in my brain. So starting sparring, Peter, no, no bueno. That's a, that's a, not allowed. Not in a way that I'm better than them, in a, in a way that, sorry, I'm better than
52:04
on this topic, I am just better than them. I put in all this research, this knowledge, this, you know, I'm a senior in high school and they're a kindergartner. I can't bridge that gap. So what you are saying, very cool theory, brother. So now let's just check some receipts. How do you feel about our common acquaintance
52:24
In terms of proof of work, what would change your mind, hours studying? Didn't get through the gates. But why do you spend any time? Two different things, right? So this individual in one area is world class, how he runs his business. Let's just be clear. And this is kind of a life lesson. I do think I can learn something from every human out there.
52:46
Every single human, right? It might be, wow, this is why I shouldn't do methamphetamine, right? Like I get a real encounter with someone addicted to the drug. And I mean this in a sincere way. It's like that might hit me in a powerful way that unlocks knowing. He's crushed it with his business. As an investor, no, I don't want to have a discussion with him about, you know, key things. No, no, no. He did not get through the gates. Yeah.
53:07
His little business, oh yeah, I can learn so much. I did, just in, I caught up with him for an hour. But when he wanted to go back to the investment, I was like, no, I don't think this is a good time. This isn't something I can cover. I don't have enough time right now to cover. I think a lot of people are so defensive, especially those that have success, avoiding it by saying, I'm not gonna be good at communicating all that I learned in 20 minutes. I'm just gonna fail at this. So let's not even go down the road. But let's not get into it because there's just different level. Now, I had a conversation with a girl yesterday
53:37
Elon, she had really strong opinions. There's no perfect human, right? We're all flawed. But honestly, using this protocol got me halfway there. I didn't do the questions, so we talked probably 20 minutes longer than I would have wanted. But it just became very clear as I asked the question about how much knowledge. It was one reporter who,
53:55
that she used as her knowledge base. And she's consumed all of this reporter stuff. And I was like, okay, cool. But what I think is really fascinating is this is a really incredible woman that saves lives for a living, is in healthcare. So I was trying to come back to like, all right, let's find the same amount. Is number of lives saved, is that a good metric to determine someone's impact? Now I'd always started pushing kind of driverless and 44,000 people.
54:19
No, I don't care about that. And then when you hear that, then it's like, okay, we've moved purely emotional. They don't want to engage. Okay, I'm out. I just think more and more as humans, it's not ramping up that we need to focus on. It's how do we not even get on the ramp? Like, how do we see I'm about to go off this ramp that Peter's not good at?
54:37
And just go around it, pull off. And for me, once I'm debating or, you know, sparring with someone, it's too late. I'm already, rocket's going off, the fuse is lit, things are getting hot, there's going to be an explosion. I'm kind of a, you use it or you don't. And like, let's say I didn't ask these two questions in the conversation yesterday. Okay, that's a mistake. That's a learning. Well, at least then I can get to, let's try and find the same mountaintop of what we're agree upon or not agree upon.
55:04
And if we can't find that, there's a third reason for me. It's like, what is our goal in this discussion? Yeah. Life is too short to be with stupid people that don't want to have conversations and they just want to do monologues.
55:16
A quote that hits me deep is a relationship can only be as deep as you can be honest. Yeah. If you cannot be with a person that says, this is my strong opinion, change my mind, then I don't care what you think. Bye. Go on. Keep watching the media. It's working out very well for you. Go for it. Go, go. You are doing great. Fantastic.
55:39
You made a comment, I have to be in love with somebody's soul, body, and their mind. Charlie and Warren said the most important thing in a wife is that she has low expectations. We often marry our parents, so be aware. You're deciding on who to go on this journey with. It's really the journey that you're choosing the partner for. Probably the most important quality or one of them is your conversations. Because even as you're old, you're still going to be having conversations with the person. Lunch, dinner, whatever. So someone you enjoy talking to. It's the most expensive investment.
56:08
George Washington had a great quote. It's the most interesting event of someone's life. It's marriage because it defines the future of happiness or sorrow. All right. Let's just go controversial here. So let's talk about marriage. Final one. Peter is three for three, the officiant. Zero are married today. Maybe I'm a bad person to talk about this with.
56:27
Peter, what do you say? I've been the officiant and I've done three weddings where I said man and woman get married. Guess how many of them are married today? Zero. Pastor Pete is not delivered. You know, but I got paid up front, so. You get paid and that's it. Yeah, this was the love topic.
56:44
So here's the controversial question about love. Should you get a prenup or not? And I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about every person right now that is considering to get married, no matter their situation. Should they get a prenup, yes or no? And why? Okay, let me make it easier for you.
57:02
The woman is running a business, successful business and whatnot. The man, he's an employee in a different company. Should they get a prenup or not? And let's just say that the prenup states that everything that is owned by them up to this point remains in their state rather than becoming joint. That would be the prenup? Yeah. And anything post becomes joint? Is that what you're saying?
57:26
every new entity that is created later, yes, that will be joined. But that's it, she already has her C Corp or LLC running her business. That is a very reasonable plan and that's probably the path I would support. Because if you flip it, a year later it doesn't work out.
57:44
What do you mean flip it? Flip it. Let's assume they did not. They got married. Okay. After a year, they're not married. Yeah. We flipped. It didn't work. She now is forced to sell, likely sell her business. She can give the shares and that's it. The person holds shares. I guess you're right. Well, but now she's, if it's 50-50, she's now an employee of her ex-husband.
58:09
shareholder and she works in the business. She has a, she's a shareholder and she has a, a board or a large shareholder that she's working for. Okay. So in your opinion, the answer is they should. That seems like a logical path to go. If someone already has a business when they're entering the marriage. And if it's the other way around, the man is the one that owns the business. Same, same answer on either path. What's your thought? What if the business is doing $20 million in revenue, 20% profit? Okay.
58:35
It's too simple. You're being a simplifier. I'm going to add the pro and con. The pro is it allows you to get divorced easier. Con is it allows you to get divorced easier. So it's the level of confidence and commitment somebody has is going to push them forward. Because if you allow divorce easier, it is going to seem as a more likely option.
58:53
If staying married is truly your intention and goal for the rest of your life, this actually simplifies it to say, no, we're not going to have a prenuptial agreement. We're going all in. Wait, so you just made the assumption that not having a prenup
59:08
makes the divorce more difficult? No, easier. Opposite. It's easier. Way easier. Correct. Therefore, let's sign a prenup so we can make it work. So it's more complicated to separate. I think we're saying the same thing, but I think you may have flipped the words. If you sign a prenup, then it is easier to get divorced. If you do not sign a prenup, it is harder to get divorced. It creates more friction.
59:32
I disagree. Prove me wrong. Teach me. The man is running a business. The business is doing not 20 million in revenue. The business is doing $200 million in revenue. The business is doing $40 million in profit. $20 million in free cash flow. So that means money that goes into the pocket of the husband. This is their dating, okay?
59:54
dating, and then they get married. What you are saying is if they sign a prenup, it's easier to get divorced. If they don't sign a prenup, it's harder to get divorced. I would say depends from which point of view. So what I have heard women saying is, I don't want to sign a prenup.
1:00:13
with this situation because it's easier for him to divorce me because he has nothing to lose. And on the other side, the man may say, I do want to sign a prenup because with a prenup, it's harder for her to divorce me because she get nothing. Oh, that's interesting. But it's easier for her to divorce me because she will be getting .
1:00:33
tone of money. And this is why I just come back and say, all this is just because why do people get married? Because they want to be together forever. That's it. That's why they want to, they get married. They want to be together forever. Some people, because also they want to have kids. Good. So why are we bringing this off? It's going to be easier for her to divorce me, or it's going to be harder to divorce.
1:00:57
Yeah, that's an insecure. This is a funny example. I was with a buddy who manages basically the life of a guy who's either a billionaire or almost a billionaire. He's very famous. This guy has a pretty wild business, everything. He's married to the woman he wants to be married for his whole life. And he always jokes that his wife is going to leave him for the tennis coach. And he's given the tennis coach a name that's theoretical. Yeah.
1:01:21
you know, not real tennis coach a name. And my buddy who kind of runs his life, manages everything, he always jokes and says, yeah, she's gonna run away with whatever Felipe, whatever the made up name is. But you're right, right? It's like in his mind, I don't think they have, well, I don't know if they have a prenuptial agreement or not. Terrible joke to be saying out loud. Well, I think he's ended the dark humor. This is an interesting point too. There's a line somebody said to me, God has a great sense of humor. Everyone's too scared to laugh.
1:01:51
You can really step back and look at the dark stuff. Let's hit that point on the head. Is that joke a terrible joke to say? Yeah. Your thought would be because it's manifesting. Yeah, you're putting things outside into the universe and you just keep playing around that. First of all, why? Where is that coming from? As you say, like every joke in order to be funny has to have some part of exaggeration and some part of truth. It's a collision of truth and a joke.
1:02:16
Why are you saying that? I would question, here's the flip. Let's flip it. Now, if somebody's repeating this all the time, daily, weekly, monthly, agree with you fully. But sometimes shining a light on something takes away its power. I hear you saying something like that one time and I smacked you in the face. Let me give you a perfect example. I felt like I had my own death experience and it's made me feel fully alive.
1:02:38
What do you mean with that? I was down in Mexico and did a... How does that connect with you talking nonsense about yourself? That's one of the darkest things is to imagine our own demise of this life.
1:02:47
Let me just tie it back to you saying, I am a people pleaser. I am a people pleaser. I'm a people pleaser. It's just putting things out into the universe. And it's going to keep manifesting like that, most likely. I agree with the label of I am X. Any labels, right? My wife will leave me for blah, blah, blah. You are labeling something.
1:03:08
What is a scenario where you're breaking through something or it's freeing you by releasing the fear or the insecurity or discussing it? You just have a conversation. That's shining a light on it. Having the conversation with the person. Hey, this is a fear I have. Rather than let me just make a weirdo joke about it because I don't have the...
1:03:28
to sit down and have the conversation. Okay, what if you've had the conversation and then somebody makes a joke? Because now it's over. What do you mean someone makes a joke? They've already worked through it or a couple has worked through these problems and then somebody then is making a joke where they both can laugh. Is that still in your idea manifesting a negative outcome? You need to give me the exact example so I can tell you because right now you are not saying anything. Wife is pregnant. She's insecure. She's like, I don't want you to talk to that girl because she's going to steal you from me.
1:03:56
The wife has a kid. She's not concerned about this anymore. They talk about it. And it's like, no, look, that's not what I want. You feel comfortable. Yeah, okay, that was just me in a tough place. I was in a mama bear mode. I had a kid. The husband joking about it after. Yeah, don't joke about it.
1:04:12
No, never bring it up. No, because right now you are playing with her safety. Yeah, I thought you'd say that. You should not play with the safety of a woman, of your woman. You should not. You should not play with the safety of your kids. Unless you want to traumatize them. Maybe that's your strategy in life. I mean, our parents have that strategy, right? They're like, I'm going to traumatize my kid. They were not very self-aware, but...
1:04:34
I think all parents do it, including me and all of us, right? We don't always realize where and when. Because my response to you honestly would be, no, I will traumatize my kids unintentionally, you know, without intention. It's helping them build resilience and confidence to overcome these experiences, whether I do it or whether it's the rest of the world, it will come. The trauma and the challenge will come. Yeah, whatever. I think that
1:05:03
Yeah, let's put that in the trash. For me to even have an opinion, we need to be talking about one single thing rather than something macro where you are putting everything in the same category and everything in the same basket. I agree with the white front and the protection and supporting.
1:05:18
There you go. It's the same with the kids, right? Like, playing around is like, yeah, this person is going to come and take you, and you're going to go and... Well, let's be more specific. One second. Was not that a joke that parents told their kids? Yeah, that is hard. Of course it is. It was. Wait, maybe some f***ing parents are still doing this s***.
1:05:42
No, you do not play with the safety of your wife and of your kids. Let's choose a specific one of the kids. One more thing, the same thing is, I would say for the women, you do not play with the respect of your husband. You do not make f***ing jokes putting your husband down, period. Oof, that's big.
1:06:04
Or you do it if you want a divorce. What about men making jokes about their women? Same thing. Oh, totally perfect. What do you mean? Because they want to feel safe? Again, you need to be specific. What are you talking about? If you're making jokes about, and again, there might be exceptions of people, of women here. But I think that what I'm going to say applies to almost everyone, which is you don't make jokes about.
1:06:28
about your wife being fat, not sexy. The housekeeper being more sexy than your wife. Because that's safety related. Yeah. You are threatening her safety, not directly, indirectly. Terrible idea. Yeah. Terrible idea. Will you get divorced because of that? No. That's a terrible thing to do. Yeah, not right away.
1:06:49
And it's not going to lead to a good marriage anyway. Agree on the relationship one. Let's move on to kids. So what about the kids on the playground? They're like, Dad, I do not want to do this. This is the one I'm fascinated by. Smack them in the face. Go do it. Say, I'm behind you. You can't get hurt. Go for it. Dad, I don't want to. Yeah, but there's no joke there. Well, where are you joking there? Well, that was kind of addressing this trauma topic of, you know, something that could be traumatizing or unintentionally or intentionally traumatizing your kid.
1:07:16
Again, there is no joke. When we come back, let's stay. Stick with the jokes. You are not threatening anything. In fact, you are supporting your kid. Yeah, that's what we are supposed to be doing. Supporting our kids rather than threatening them. It's a really deep point. And think of how many couples or people you've seen that are joking about something that they're too insecure or scared to go face directly. Including me, right? I'm sure as I think back, there's times I've done it where we're passive aggressive. We're sarcastic about something.
1:07:46
Really, it's just we're too scared to go address it head on or have the hard or difficult conversation. That can change a lot of lives. I get much more excited about controversial statements or topics rather than just random things. I mean, you said...
1:08:06
There's one like individualism or collectivism. Okay, great. But what is the statement? What is the controversial statement? I say controversial, I mean different. What is the different way of thinking about that? Boom, throw it away. Challenge. Ask me a question. Do you see how I said I made a statement or I made a topic? Prenups, yes or no? And then I start asking you. This is great feedback. And it's a great prompt. Let me give you an example. My controversial statement is,
1:08:36
For the first almost million years of human survival, you needed to be or had to be a collectivist, or you felt this, to survive. Now, flipping it, have to be an individualist to thrive in today's world. The opposite. But you may not have as fulfilling of a life because being part of a collective, and this is something I'm thinking through, struggling with, challenging myself on right now is...
1:09:02
I am so deeply an individualist of, I can do it, put the team on my back, I'll go do it by myself, let me do this. But a lot of the greatest moments, experiences, parts of my life, even groups that, you know, been a part of with you are the life transformative ones. Grabbing all these different topics and then being able to phrase it in a way, not because you want to be controversial, but we know that there are certain topics that are
1:09:27
Taboo. People don't want to talk about it. People or people have, they're just copy pasting whatever everyone has been doing. And you know, it is what it is. I want to have these interesting conversations, discussions about all these different things.
1:09:44
This is why, being specific, something I appreciate about you and our discussions is you are right. Like interrogating someone, sure. The right person, the right time with the three filters you talked about sounds great. What's way more interesting to me, finding the conversations no one else wants to have and going deep. The ones that people are too scared or uncomfortable. Those are so much fun to go deep on with a different lens and honesty. Bingo.
1:10:17
Acceptance versus agency. If you're in America today, anyone has the agency or opportunity to create a great life. Sorry, most people. And a lot of these come back to this key thing. But acceptance is going to give you peace in your daily life. So which one do you choose or which one's better?
1:10:35
Acceptance will create peace in your life? Yeah. A lot of these are East versus West, right? They're what would a Buddhist say, Taoism, Hinduism, you know, what is their approach versus what is the Western or traditionally the Western mode? Individualist versus collective. The individualist will thrive today and would have died for the last million years of human existence. Being an individualist today is how you thrive. And in the past is how you die.
1:11:02
Being a collectivist is how we were programmed for the last million years to survive. Being fully present, being stuck in the future or being in the future will bring you anxiety in your life, but success professionally. Being fully present will bring you peace, but not success. Kind of flips. These are things I'm struggling with right now personally. This is part of the reason I'm fascinated by the topics. So it's good to be able to zoom into details, but
1:11:30
Being fixated on them is never a way to have professional success. It is not a way to have professional success. When we first met, I noticed that in myself. And then I was digging in. I was like, why am I uncomfortable? Oh, it's because it's probably right. Let me do it. And then it became a muscle built of like, oh, I need to spend more time with this person. No one else makes me uncomfortable. No one else challenges. It's kind of challenged, right? As people have more success, they get challenged less. That's why dictators become a problem.
1:11:59
because everyone starts just following the dictator's rule. And even though it's a terrible plan, they're like, oh, great idea, Pablo. Great idea, Peter. And then that's how you go off a cliff. So how would you like to phrase that if you even want to talk about that? I think it's how you search for friends and people to surround yourself with. Those who challenge you
1:12:18
in a way that checks out, you know, try it, test it. And if you start noticing they're challenging you and they're right, you need to surround yourself with that person, regardless of how you feel. It's a me problem if I'm uncomfortable. I need to go dig in why I'm uncomfortable with receiving this. There's a Mark Twain quote I mentioned to you when we were together was, humor is showing people you're smart without being annoying. And it's deep, right? It's like, if you can make someone laugh, you can say anything to them. Like if you get through as a laugh,
1:12:48
Well, not everyone will laugh, right? Now, there's a deeper question of, do I want to be around the people that can't laugh? Well, you don't know until you realize they're not laughing. And that's a way for me, it's a way to start going really deep, really fast.
1:13:00
Because when you start throwing out these jokes and someone's still laughing, it's like, oh, you're going deep. And it's the relationship, right? The relationship only gets as deep as you can be honest. Especially if it's shots fired. If you're coming at me and I'm laughing and you're coming, let's see where the bottom is. Like, let's see how we can go. Brother, love you. See you soon. Love you, brother. See you, man.