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SMNTY Presents On Theme: TV FOMO IRL · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and all the stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'll never told your production for iHeartRadio, and today we
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: have a treat for you, a very special treat. So,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: as you know, our good friend Eves has started a
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: new podcast that you've heard Eve's on here doing various
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Female First also some other episodes. You also heard her
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and her co host over on their podcast on Theme
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Katie come on and talk about the importance of black storytelling.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: And we really love.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Talking to them, we love working with them. They sent
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: us a card. We gushed about it in the most
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: recent Female First. I saw it today and I was
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: once again overwhelmed by like oh, and so we really
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: wanted to highlight that if you haven't gone to listen
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: to the show yet, if you haven't subscribed, we wanted
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: to give you a taste of it.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Because it is really really good.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: They've done such a good job and they have so
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: many topics that just fit naturally into what we talk about.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: They're just a if you're interested in this show, you'd
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: be interested in this.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, and then you also need to be subscribed for
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: when they actually come out with my excited act, Like
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: I'm already excited for the Cinderella Brandy Cinderella episode, which
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: I have been begging them to do and they promised
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: that they would.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: It was honestly, it was a heartfelt campaign and you succeeded.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. I can't wait. I'm excited about it too.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: We could do like a group event, we could replay
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: the episode.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Let's do this. Yes, I think we can. I think
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: we can.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: So you might hear a few because we had a
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: hard time picking what episode we wanted to run in
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: our feed from on Theme because there's also one about horror,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: and you know we're all about horror. But today we
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: are going to play an episode called TV fomo irl
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: in which Katie and Eves talk with doctor Joy Harden
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Bradford of Therapy for Black Girls. And it's just a
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: great fit for the show, and we hope that you
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Please go subscribe And yeah, we'll hopefully get
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: to talk more about this later with Eves and Katie,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: but yes, in the meantime, please enjoy.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: Friends Media.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: You are.
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: Today's episode TV Fomo i RL. You ever be watching
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: a show and see the characters experiencing something that you
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: never experienced and be like.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: I ain't never had that ever happened to me.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get see what that be like, right.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: Dam Look, yeah, they do live in their best lives
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: and I'm just over here watching them from my average life.
• 3:25
  Speaker 5: But I mean, you don't have to just sit and watch.
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: You could could what you know, use those characters as
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: a blueprint and do what they're doing.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: So you're saying I should mimic a TV show in.
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: My real life, I mean when you say it like that,
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: so how would you say it? Like you never seen
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: something on TV or a movie or read something in
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: a book and thought, I want that to happen to me.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure I have. Who hasn't exactly our inspires.
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: It's so hard not to compare our lives to the
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: storylines we see on the screen and on the page.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: But unlike television and movies, real life doesn't give us
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: second takes or feed us lines. There are no copy
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: editors are fact checkers, and our day to day lives.
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: In this week's episode, we'll look back at the times
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: we compared our lives to fictional storylines, and we're in
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: for a rude Awakening.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: We'll explore the potential negative impacts of life attempting to
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: imitate art with doctor Joy Harden Bradford of Therapy for
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Black Girls.
• 4:18
  Speaker 5: I'm Katie, the author of the forthcoming anthology about black
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: bookstores in the United States, Prose to the People.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: And I'm Eves, a writer, a yoga teacher and student,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: and a person who loves to be outdoors.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: We talk a lot about how stories have impacted us.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: Yes, we have an entire podcast dedicated to black storytelling indeed.
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: Facts, And I've been thinking about the way storytelling can
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: negatively impact us, like not in a traumatic way, but
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: kind of in a bum us out, give us fellmo
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: type of way.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Fear of missing out is real.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: But that phrase usually comes up when people are talking
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: about social media.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, which is its own form of storytelling. Like you
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: see someone having a great time in Bali, and now
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: all of a sudden you want to go to Bali.
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: Can't point to Bali on them, mat, but do you
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: want a flower bass?
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Okay, that's really specific, but it was a self track, gotcha.
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: But I found myself judging people who, from my perspective,
• 5:10
  Speaker 5: were copying other people's lives. They saw on social media
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: then posting it on social media. But after doing so
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: much needed self reflection, I came to the conclusion that
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: I do that too. Using social media and more traditional
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: forms of media, I.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Can see the vacation thing it is giving.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: I'm out being adventurous and you're sitting at home on
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: the couch like you always do, not going to diva university.
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: And a little made outfit.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: Wait what it was a love and hip hop reference only.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: The Real Night only show You Are You?
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: Left You?
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: I'm loose, I'm floating in the universe. There's nothing but
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: ether around me and darkness. Hey, I don't be watching
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: reality TV anyway. So, like, what storylines from TV left
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: you feeling disappointed? Is it easier for TV shows to
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: leave you feeling disappointed as compared to social media?
• 6:10
  Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I think TV shows really do it
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: for me. Like, sure, the conflict you know they have
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: is often wrapped up nicely at some point, and they
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: might have like a special destination episode or whatever. But
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: generally what you're watching on TV is their quote unquote
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: normal lives. So I'm like, damn, I want my normal
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: life to be like that.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because you're really going along for the ride
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: with them, like you have more time that you spend
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: with them, And especially for a longer series, every episode
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: can be this huge special day. There has to be
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: a lot more filler and just a lot more things
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: that happen in general.
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's like the mundane things. I'd be like, wow,
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: I can't even have the mundane things. For example, one
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: thing that I found myself being disappointed by in my
• 6:56
  Speaker 5: life comparing it to TV series was therapy.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, like talking to a therapist.
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I had put it off for a year
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: or two, but I kept seeing TV therapists work wonders
• 7:07
  Speaker 5: for their clients, like they were so prepared for their sessions,
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: deeply interested in seeing their clients improved, and their offices
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: were cutes, And I was like, Okay, it sounds like
• 7:17
  Speaker 5: that wasn't your experience, girl, not at all. I'm not
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: even trying to be funny. I've had multiple therapists confuse
• 7:23
  Speaker 5: me for other clients. They're like, oh, what about what
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: about your pet dogs? Miss and Leg? I'm like, what
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: are you talking about wrong, bitch?
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Like the therapists I've had were nothing like Molly's therapists.
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: On Insecure two weeks ago, you said things should be
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: easier for me as a successful black woman, and another
• 7:45
  Speaker 7: time you said things should have fallen into place by now.
• 7:49
  Speaker 7: Is there a certain way you think your life should go?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 7:53
  Speaker 6: Well, I mean I do have specific life goals, and
• 7:56
  Speaker 6: I think that if you work hard than it is
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: shot to you certain results.
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: There's a medical term called magical thinking, when we believe
• 8:06
  Speaker 7: what we want can influence the external world, as opposed
• 8:09
  Speaker 7: to accepting things as they are.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I can really tell that the therapist is keyed
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: into Molly bringing up something that she said two weeks
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: ago to establish a pattern introducing medical terms.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: See and for me, you know, we came into adulthood
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: when folks were openly embracing therapy. So I had this
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: notion that I should go look at me. Sounded like Moley,
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: but it was depictions like this. It made me think
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: that a therapist would really help me.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: I can see how that's disappointing, because therapy is one
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: of those things that it's hard to understand before you
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: try it yourself. So these fictional portrayals make sense to
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: use as an example for someone who hasn't been before
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: my thoughts exactly.
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: It's weird to ask someone, you know, like, how's your
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: therapy session, which I'll talk about, how did it make
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: you feel?
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I've been wanted to though, honestly, but it is a little.
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: Weird, you know, just a little bit.
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  Speaker 5: And because of the nature of therapy, when it's therapist
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: shows up in a show, they're mostly there to help
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: a main character with a personal conundrum or reach an epiphany,
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: and you were.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Hoping you'd find a therapist who do the same for you.
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: Yes, girl, main character energy, But alas life isn't a story,
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: and I am not a character. I am a nonfictional person.
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: Say it out loud, I'm a nonfictional person. So how
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: did you handle that disappointment with your therapist? Did you
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: shop around?
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: No?
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: I stop seeing my therapists for reasons related more to
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: capitalism and America's messed up healthcare system. I mean, I
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: thought about getting another one, but the thought of having
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: to let someone else get to know me and my
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: issues was too exhausting.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: What about you.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: Do you have a life imitating art moment?
• 9:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I do, for sure.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, speaking of insecure, one thing that I see
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: on TV a lot that just has not been my
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: experience is the large but somehow close knit friend group.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: You know, sometimes it's a pretty big group, like six people,
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: and sometimes there's like a base of three or four
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: people and then a concentric circle around that Kora folks.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: But either way, the group of friends is close.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: I mean they all know each other super well and
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: have for a while, and a lot of instances they
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: can hit each other up in the week hours of
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: the morning about anything.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: They're down for last minute plans.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: They go on vacations together, they move cities, countries and
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: stay friends. And they've been doing stuff like having immediate
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: urgent group calls about drama that's going down in that
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: very moment, and also the drama a lot of times
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: isn't even that urgent, and they still be picking up
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: the phone. They're always debriefing and whatnot. Like in this
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: clip from twenties, this is the first attament I reupholstered
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: for you.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Now it's ruined.
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, who are you calling Tucks so we can come
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: help us pack up your We aren't packing up, okay,
• 10:51
  Speaker 6: we are going to Centerspiel. I am ready to get
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: my life from all about e.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: You just got evicted and you trying to go sit
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: on the grass and watch a movie.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, or like living single girlfriends Harlem, et cetera. The
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: examples of this go on where there are friend groups
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: that are relatively large but still very close knit.
• 11:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: I think something that ours both have in common is
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: like wanting to be like really known by somebody and feeling.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Like, is this the therapist?
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Okay, well tell me what Joe Daddy is. But I mean,
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: as someone who's known you for a long time, I'm
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: surprised that this was your example because I see you
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: as having that. I'm like, yeah, like you know, you
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: have your college friends and y'all be having all joint
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: birthday parties and going out the country together, and I'm like, wait,
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: what's going on?
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I thought that was I thought that would it was.
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: So it's interesting that you, like don't experience it that way.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I really don't.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: I don't because I guess when I see it. And
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: maybe that is the whole the fact that a TV
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: show has a whole mythology around it and as an
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: industry created to make these specific moments look like this.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: But to me, it feels like the friend groups they
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: all mesh in a way differently than my friend groups MESH.
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: I feel like everything is segmented for me, Like I
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: feel like this, Yeah, I have these friends that I
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: do this thing with, and I have these friends over
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: here who I do this with. But for me, in shows,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: it feels like those friend groups. Every dotty crisscross is
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: like a big web and everything meets in the center.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: And also I also think like the logistics work differently
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: in the shows. I think this is like I got
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: to schedule this. I've been trying for a month to
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: get with these two friends at the same time and
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: it hasn't worked out because our schedules are very misaligned.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't be group calling at all now.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Ye, Like there's just a level of synergy in kinship
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: that I don't feel like I have in the same
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: way that I see in shows. It feels very flowery
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: and it feels very poetic in shows and ways that
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: it doesn't feel like in my life. And so I
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: don't want to make it seem like I don't have
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: people I love in my life and then I'm close
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: to it just doesn't work the same way that I've
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: seen it shows, and I find myself like being like.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: That looks really nice.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like you don't see the Hey can you
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: can you come out here?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Oh no, Like you.
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: Don't see that back and forth like that, all the
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: logistics of having that prime group and all that meeting
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: of like it's like, oh, I know the part you
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: happen to be at the park.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: Right, it seems so spontaneous and if everything's fresh and new,
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: it's breezy.
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: Yes, it's a good way to put it.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: It's a very easy.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: And of course shows are meant to be a spectacle,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: so TV storytellers want our eyes to be glued to
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: the screen. Also, characters in their relationships they have to
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: have some kind of spice and intrigue, so there has
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: to be exposition, and they have to build a stories world.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: But dang, even when we know what we're watching is
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: fiction and the storytellers are doing their damnedest to suspend
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: our disbelief it, it can be hard not to feel
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: some longing for the lifestyles that you see. And there's
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: psychological research around how people interact and bond with the
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: fictional characters that they become attached to. In a twenty
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: twelve study, researchers from Ohio State University use the term
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: quote experience taking to describe the actions of readers who
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: take on the thoughts, beliefs, and emotions of fictional characters.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: Sometimes we do actually let the attitudes and actions of
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: fictional characters influence our real life decisions. And like for me,
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: I see in these fictional friend groups that everything isn't
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: always sweet. They make mistakes, get in fights, and they
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: even break up, but still they share this deep kinship
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: that even from the time I was a child, I
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: think I imagine all adults having.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: But as an adult now it doesn't feel like that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: And ooh, now that I think about it, there is
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: a social media trap here too.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Black girl friend group travel is such a.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: Thing, be making it look all luxurious and drama free
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: in the feed, acting like they have one and a
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: half fights every day, but still giving us fomo.
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: Yes, like speaking of like the big friend group, Like
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: I've never been a part of one, but I've been
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: like kind of those like special guest characters and like, oh,
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: they come in for this episode the cameo, Yeah, it's giving, cameo,
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: it's giving. We invited you because we did not have
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: enough people and we needed to split this trip up better.
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: But yeah, like being one the outside of the group
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: but still being with them. You see, like this isn't
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: even fun. Like it's fun on social media, but like
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: being with y'all is not even fun. So like, why
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: was I tripping off this?
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Also seeing that from a sober perspective, when I would
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: imagine other everybody's not sober in those groups around.
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, Yeah, I need to start drinking and doing drugs. Yeah,
• 15:53
  Speaker 5: be having fun.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: It's not gonna help. It's not gonna help.
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: I have a sneak suspicion that we're not the only
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: ones who have felt dejected when our life and experiences
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: didn't live up to the characters we watch every week.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: So I wanted to bring in an expert to give
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: us some insight on why we compare ourselves to fictional people,
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: how that's impacting us, and some reframing techniques we might
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: find helpful.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: When you say things like reframing techniques, it starts to
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: make me feel like I really am in a therapy
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: session already.
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: Not quite, but we are going to be chatting with
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: doctor Joy from Therapy for Black Girls right after the break.
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: Hey, y'all, I'm doctor joy Hard and Branford. I'm a
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: psychologist in Atlanta and also the founder of Therapy for
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: Black Girls. I'm also the author of Sisterhood Heals, The
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: Transformative Power of Healing in Community.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: So, you know, we're watching TV, we're watching movies, even
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: reading books, and we see something or like we want
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: this to happen in our lives. Example was therapist. I
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: watched Insecure, and you remember Molly's therapist. She was so good,
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: her office was so cute, she had all the great
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: insights for Molly and listened to her and remember everything
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: from last session, didn't mix her up with different clients.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: And I was like, I need to go to therapy
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: and that's what my therapist is going to be like.
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: And it just did not turn out like that, and
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: I was very disappointed.
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So I actually thought that Molly's therapist was a
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: good depiction of what therapy actually looks like, because I
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: do feel like a lot of times television gets therapy wrong.
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: Most often I see like very inappropriate boundaries between therapists
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: and clients, which typically doesn't happen in real life. But
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: I actually thought Molly's therapist in terms of like not
• 17:48
  Speaker 6: getting her mixed up and like tracking across sessions, Like
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: I feel like that's kind of like the bare minimum.
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: So I'm kind of sad to hear that that did
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: not match up with your reality.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I was too, honestly, doctor Joy when I heard
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Katie told me this. I mean, I know about her
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: some of the experiences she's had in therapy, so I
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: feel like that soundlike a lot of people. You know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Katie and I are close enough for her to tell me, like,
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: let me in on her experiences that she's had with therapists.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: But I was thinking at you, I was like, yeah, like,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: isn't that what they're supposed to do, like the least
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: of what they're supposed to do. So I'm right there
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: with you.
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: Oh, I was like, well, Molly just had the best
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: therapist ever.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: And that's valid coming from your perspective because that's the
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: experience that you've had. Yeah yeah, but yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So so for me, it wasn't about therapy. For me.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: The thing that I saw not lining up with expectations
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: and my reality when I was watching television was friend groups.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: For me, one of the things that I saw expectation of,
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: like looking at these really lovely like relationships that these
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: people had in these shows that are specifically black friend groups.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: I found that I didn't have that experience in real life.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: I found myself like, I don't want that. That seems
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: really nice, so there's some longing for it.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I love that you shared that because I feel
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: like I have very I mean, I'm clearly in my
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: sisterhood bag right now, right because I'm all in the
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: celebration of sisterhood heels. But I find that interesting that
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: we're also celebrating the thirtieth anniversary of living single this year,
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: and I feel like that is one of those shows
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: that a lot of sisters go back to and say like, oh,
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: this is what I thought like friends and friend groups
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: were going to be like, and then the reality of
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: it does not match. And I think we have to
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: think about, you know, like what was happening in the
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: world thirty years ago that is very different from now. Right,
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: So there weren't cell phones, or if there were, like
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: they weren't readily available like we have them now. People
• 19:45
  Speaker 6: I think did maybe live in closer proximity to one another,
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: and it just feels like they didn't have as many
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: things that competed for their interest in time the way
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: that we do now. And so when you see you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: all of them able to kind of u go together
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: for breakfast, it feels like they had like breakfast a
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: lot together on Living Single, which I think is cute,
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: but you know, like be able to meet each other
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: for breakfast before they go to work, and you know,
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: all of that stuff like that doesn't take into consideration,
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: like a commute and dropping kids off for daycare and
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: like all of these things that I think are just
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: very different about the world that we find ourselves in now.
• 20:22
  Speaker 6: And I'm not surprised to hear that you long for that.
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: And I do think that there are some pieces of
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: what we see in media on television that we can
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: think about, like, Okay, maybe we can't have like a
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: Brownstone where all of our best friends live, but what
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: pieces of this can I model and you know, kind
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: of take into my own life and kind of have
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: some semblance of that That kind of meets that need
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: for me, because I just think that there's so much
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: competing for our attention right now, right Like they didn't
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: have Instagram back in living single days, right and so
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: you know, the time we're spending scrolling on Instagram and
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: playing on TikTok, like could you be having a group
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: chat with your girls?
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: You know?
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: And I just think that there are so many things
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: that do distract us that it is good to be
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: able to kind of put all of that away and
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: make time to really intentionally connect with one another.
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: And it sounds also when you said, look at what
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: aspects that you could have, you know, you could have
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: breakfast together sometimes, so it sounds like you're saying it's
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: not pathological to be looking at these examples and wanting
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: some of that.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: I mean that's why we resonate with certain shows, right
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: is because they feel super realistic. But I think you
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: also have to remember that there's a whole writing team
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: and lots of editing and all of these things that
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: go into making these shows that we love. But we
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: also love these shows because they feel very realistic to us.
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: They feel like things that we could achieve in some ways.
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: I think we just have to be careful not to,
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: you know, kind of compare our real life to something
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: that has a whole writing room in multiple editors.
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: Do you have an example of something that you saw
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: in storytelling that you kind of were like, yeah, it
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: didn't really play out like that in my real life.
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: Oh you know, I feel like motherhood would have to
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: be that for me. And I don't think I can
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: point to any one like instance or you know, depiction,
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: but I just feel like you I saw in media,
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: like lots of stories around like how hard it is
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: to kind of you know, bring children into the family,
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: and how priorities shifting all of these things. In the
• 22:24
  Speaker 6: real life version of that is like so much more
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: difficult than I think anything that I ever saw depicted
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: in media.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: Right, And I imagine like because being a mother is
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: twenty four seven and we get maybe like thirty minutes
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: to an hour with motherhoods depicted on the screen. Or
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: you know, if a book takes you ten hours to
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: read over the course of the book, that really does
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: not compare to what you're doing with your kids day
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: in and day out. So I can see how that
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: depiction is like super truncated and maybe only shows like
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: the highlights or maybe like some very low lights, but
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: not really all the stuff in between. But how do
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: you think I think social media has impacted our expectations?
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Have you seen that within the Therapy for Black Girls
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: group or talking to people while you've been on tour.
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, yeah, I mean, and you know, I think
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: that social media as a different level of nuance to
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: this conversation because while we are able to recognize like
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: Insecure and living single and like the things that we
• 23:22
  Speaker 6: watch on TV as entertainment, I don't think that we
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: always view like what we're watching on social media as entertainment,
• 23:29
  Speaker 6: and a lot of it actually is meant for entertainment,
• 23:32
  Speaker 6: but because they look like real people like us, then
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: we get caught up in comparing, like our vacation to
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: the vacation they took in Bali, right, and how that
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: doesn't match up, and then we're really frustrated and said that, like,
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: our pictures don't look like the ones we saw this
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: influencer who has a team of photographers and like all
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: of these things. Like, I think we do do more
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: comparing ourselves to what we see on social media than
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: we even do to Insecure, because we clearly know that
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: those are characters. And so I think that this is
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: something that has come up a lot in the therapy
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: for Black Girls community just around people like having to
• 24:05
  Speaker 6: take breaks from social media because they find themselves like
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: doing too much comparison, or it's really hard to kind
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: of stay focused on whatever your journey is, whether that
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: be healing or motherhood or entrepreneurship, because you're always paying
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: attention to like other people's shiny objects, right So, like, oh,
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: they launched this course, so now do I need a course?
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: Or oh, look at how beautiful their family portraits are
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: in mine don't look like that. Like, I just feel
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: like social media does it elicits a lot of these
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: very strong reactions from people, and I don't think they
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: always recognize like what's going on because you think it
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: is you kind of keeping in touch with friends, right
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: like when you think about like some of these parasocial relationships,
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: right Like, there's a lot of money to be made
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: by us feeling like we have these you know, cousin
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: in my head kind of relationship with people that we
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: follow on Instagram. But in a lot of ways, that
• 24:57
  Speaker 6: can be unhealthy because you are setting yourself up and
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: trying to compare yourself to something that is like an
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: idealized version of life as opposed to like the basic
• 25:07
  Speaker 6: day to day version of life that most of us
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: are actually living.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: We'll be back with doctor Joy after the.
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: Break, So if we're having these moments where we're looking
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: at a television show and we're saying that our reality
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: doesn't match up to it, but we want them to
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: be more in alignment. What are ways that we can
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: tell that in ourselves. Okay, that's normal for us to do.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: There are specific psychological reasons while we're responding this way,
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: and we are able to move through.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Life still like in a healthy, normal.
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: Way till anytime things kind of veer off course, where
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: you are finding disturbances in your sleep, disturbances in your appetite,
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: you are wanting to kind of be less engaged with
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: things that you normally were really excited about. Like, I
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: think all of those are signs that like something is
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: off and you need to kind of pay attention to
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: like what has happened. I also think you have to
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: be careful. And I think we kind of joke about this,
• 26:15
  Speaker 6: but I do know that there are extremes for any circumstance, Right,
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: we kind of joke about, you know, like, oh, what
• 26:22
  Speaker 6: do I do now that my favorite show is no
• 26:24
  Speaker 6: longer on the air and I need a support group
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: and you know, like all of these things, And I
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: think like some of that is normal. Like, you know,
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: I think a lot of us were sad when Insecure
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: ended because we loved it and like wanted to spend
• 26:34
  Speaker 6: Sunday nights with them. But if you find yourself staying
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: in that space for too long, I do think that
• 26:40
  Speaker 6: that is an indication that, like something, there's some need
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: that's not being met that you were addressing through this show.
• 26:46
  Speaker 6: Because it's normal to kind of have, you know, parasocial
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: relationships and attachments to characters, but they are characters, right,
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: And so I think when you find yourself over identifying
• 26:56
  Speaker 6: with a particular fantasy world or some disturbed in sleep,
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: or you're kind of spending too much time kind of
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: being obsessed around things that happened on the show, and
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: I do think that that is an indication that, you know, hey,
• 27:08
  Speaker 6: what's going on here? Like are you trying to avoid
• 27:11
  Speaker 6: something else in your real life by being preoccupied with
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: this fantasy world that somebody else created?
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: Speaking of being too enthralled in these shows, do you
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: have any tips for folks who are struggling with managing
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: expectations for like grounding themselves in reality, any practices that
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: you would recommend.
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So, I actually think journaling is an excellent tool
• 27:36
  Speaker 6: for lots of these kinds of things, because I think
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: when you can write things down or talk them through,
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: like if you want to do voice notes and really
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: kind of get at like what is motivating your behavior,
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: I think that that unveils a lot for us. Right, So,
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: if you're finding yourself kind of staying with a particular storyline,
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: or you feel like the lines are blurring between reality
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: and fantasy world, like, well, what is it that makes
• 27:59
  Speaker 6: me want to spend time with these characters? And where
• 28:01
  Speaker 6: might that be missing in my own life? And what
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: kinds of things can I do to get more of that?
• 28:07
  Speaker 6: You know, kind of like our earlier conversations of if
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: you're missing this kind of thing, this living single vibe,
• 28:12
  Speaker 6: like what pieces of that can you bring into your
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: own life? And I think journaling is an excellent way
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: to kind of get at some of those questions and
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: to really be able to check in with yourself to
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: see where there may be, you know, kind of holes
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: in your reality. I also think I have to, of
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: course advocate for therapy, because I think talking with a
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: therapist about some of these concerns can be really helpful.
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: And I think if you're somebody who finds yourself like
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: struggling with like, Okay, I'm feeling very overidentified with a character,
• 28:39
  Speaker 6: or you know, I'm sticking with these story longs longer
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: than I think I should. It may feel kind of
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: weird to say that to like a friend, but you know,
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: in a therapist's office, like you know, there is no
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: weird thing, Like there's nothing that you can't go to
• 28:51
  Speaker 6: a therapist with, and so it may feel safer to
• 28:54
  Speaker 6: be able to kind of talk through whatever it is
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: that you're feeling with a therapist as opposed to somebody
• 28:59
  Speaker 6: who is in your life on a more regular basis.
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: And I think one of the things that is similar
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: to me in Eve's expectations versus reality is just wanting
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: to be known by somebody, Like I want my therapist
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: to know me. She wants to have that group of
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: friends that knows her. And so one thing that I
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: really liked from your book is doing that self assessment
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: and sisterhood assessment. So if someone's struggling with, oh, like
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: I wanted to have this like big friend group or
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: just like a really good girlfriend and they're not feeling that, like,
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: take that assessment, say like, Okay, and or do I
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: have people in my life that I'm just kind of
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: overlooking that actually do pour into me and how am
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: I as a friend? Because you know, it needs to
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: have that reciprocation. So that's one thing that I was like, oh,
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: doctor Joy read me, but it was helpful after I
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: was mad at you for a little bit.
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: Anger is a totally totally appropriate response to have. And
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: you know, I really want to stay there for a moment, Katie,
• 30:01
  Speaker 6: because this feeling of being known by somebody and really
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: seen for all of who we are is incredibly powerful.
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: And I think that that is one of the strengths
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: that black women have right is being able to kind
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: of hold space and like our friends and our girls
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: can kind of see us even when we don't want
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: to admit that thing to ourselves. And I don't think
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: that there's anything wrong with that. I think a lot
• 30:24
  Speaker 6: of times what I'm seeing now is people kind of
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: wanting to be unbothered, so to speak, and like, oh,
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: it's okay if like people don't pay attention to me,
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: but actually it's not like we're humans, We're not robots,
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: and so this longing to be known and really seen
• 30:39
  Speaker 6: by people is something that is totally appropriate, and I
• 30:42
  Speaker 6: think it's beautiful when we can cultivate spaces where we
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: can do that for one another. It's really important.
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: Now it's time for my favorite segment of the show,
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: my favorite and only segment of our show, roll credits,
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: where we give credit to a person, place, or thing,
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: and we have our esteemed guests, Doctor Joy, and we
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: will let her kick it off. Who are what are
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: you giving credit to this week? Doctor Joy?
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: I think I will give credit to one of my
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: favorite restaurants here in Atlanta. It's a taco place called
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: tacoiadell Soul. Okay, It's my favorite favorite place, favorite caso
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: in Atlanta for sure. And when I think about that,
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: so it is kind of like a tradition for my family,
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: like we are typically there weekly, and when I think about,
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: like throughout the pandemic, like that was the thing that
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: kind of felt like a constant. So even when we
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: couldn't go in restaurants to eat, we would like do
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: us to go order And it just feels like this
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: thing that has kind of been like a grounding space
• 31:43
  Speaker 6: for me and my family. So I think that would
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: be my credit would be tacari Adel soul.
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: Okay, shout out that keso.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Tacos last night.
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: I love it.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: What about you, Eves.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Let's see. I would.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: Like to give credit to being barefoot outside specifically. Kenny
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: laughs at me every time I give credit to something.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: I know it seems like it's out of left field,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: but it's not a promise. I just love being barefoot.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: I have been wanting to be barefoot a lot more lately,
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: like I always do. And I think you know that,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: but it feels really good. It feels grounding. Speaking of grounding,
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, that's it. That's all I have
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: to say about it.
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: Period. I would like to give credit to the seasons.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: I feel like a little twinge of fall in the
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: air and I was like, Oh, we're going into a
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: different season. And I was like, oh, I'm going into
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: a different season of my life.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: How fitting?
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: So like literal seasons and like seasons of our lives,
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: And like I'm the type of person who like gets
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: really emotional when there's like a very concrete change, like
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: if there's like a gradation or like a funeral, it's
• 33:02
  Speaker 5: like things are different now. And I feel like the
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: seasons are kind of like a way to mark that
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: or like nature's way of marking that. So I want
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: to give credit.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: To the seasons.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: It makes you super like introspective every time I go
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: through a season, changing whether it's just summer to fall
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: or life stuff. Yeah, and doctor Joy, how can people
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: keep up with you? How can they listen to you
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: read your book all those good things?
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so you can find me at Hello, doctor Joy
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: across all the social media platforms. I would love for
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: you to grab a copy of Sisterhood Heels at Sisterhoodheels
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: dot com or your favorite local bookstore and definitely share
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: your thoughts with me because I love hearing how people
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: are like going to their group chats with the conversation
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: around Sister at Heels. So definitely let me know your
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: thoughts once you grab it, and then you can check
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: out the podcast Therapy for Black Girls. New episodes come
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: out every Wednesday morning and you can find all of
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: that at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: So thank you, so so much, thank you.
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: I appreciate y'all having me, of course.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: So that's that. On that, We'll be back next episode.
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: See You.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: This episode was written by Eves, jeffco and Katie Mitchell.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Follow us on.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us an
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: email at hello at on Theme dot Show. For more
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.