Latest / Books4Guys / How to Lead High Performers Without Destroying Your Culture | Diana Lowe

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How to Lead High Performers Without Destroying Your Culture | Diana Lowe · Books4Guys

• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like they but like none of them are from there.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: They just like kind of migrated there.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not from here, but also I don't know if Bonnie introduced you to Katie.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's an author as well.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's supposed to come on here at some point too.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because she has a great book too.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: She's a friend of ours.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of all wrote our books and you know, it worked.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: That is so cool.
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  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, she is.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: She's supposed to come on here, I think, probably in July at some point.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll click on there.
• 0:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be so cool.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: But Diana, so excited to have you.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh I was looking at your background.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we were talking about your book a little bit, and we'll dive into that.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I was uh some of the things that caught my eye, I want to pull this up because you are the CEO, and I love this, the chief happiness officer for blue light leadership.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a positive, happy person for the most part.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, Diana's gonna have that same level of energy.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be a great conversation.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, even not even scrolling any further, I was like, oh yeah, this is this is I like this.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have, I'm like, should it be chief optimist?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just, yeah, but yeah, optimism, happiness.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I really try to work from there because I've been in the opposite.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I know what it's like to work from the opposite.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, literally, I was just talking to someone earlier today.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about mindset and positive thinking and how to maximize your level of happiness with so much going on.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: People are just, especially high performers, they're always looking at the next thing, checking things off, and you can kind of get lost and and just kind of lose that purpose and enjoyment of life.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think Chief Happiness Officer is a great title, and you should keep that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: But Diana, your book as well, hard to handle.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It is I I started digging into it, and I've been, I think there's a lot of people that could take something from this book.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was specifically thinking about this.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know, in my situation, I have managed somebody who may have been like this, high performing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: You you don't really know what to do with them.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've I don't know if I've been that person, maybe, I don't know, but I've worked with people, and it's just an interesting topic you write about.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I started thinking too, I was like, even athletes, you have these high performers.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they're a little pre Madonna, but they uh you don't really know how to manage these individuals because they do a great job, but you're like they could fracture culture.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's all this attitude.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen anyone write a book on it or have kind of a step-by-step process.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So just to start, Diana, I would love for you to share a little bit about your story, just your career, your progression, and really like what you saw in organizations that made you say, hey, I've got a topic here that I don't see anyone else who's written about it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think I should be the one to kind of put this out there and put this out there for people to read and learn from.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: What a what a like heartfelt, I I love that you believe in it because I believe in it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, if you, if anyone on your podcast, if they have the opportunity to read the book itself, and at the beginning of the book, I give an introduction, a really deep introduction to why I do the work that I do.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's less about actually it being a business, like, oh, I'm not, is somebody covering the topic in this market?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it was really, I have, it's fortunately but unfortunately, the karma of working in consistent toxic environments.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And ever since I was in my early 20s from my first career, really showing up, I was ready, I was on fire, and one workplace after another, toxic workplace where I was doubted, I was humiliated.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if you've read the introduction, you'll see that there are some like really deeply painful stories about the the level of humiliation people would really go to and managers, right?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Managers who were supposedly managing me, how they would really go out of their way to thinking that they were doing a good job, but really crushing my soul if I can say that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I can say that with a with somewhat of a smile now and somewhat of recovery, but I don't want anyone to feel like that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want anyone to go to it.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a mission born from my pain.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's meaning that I have endured and I have taken that.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And even when I was in recovery and it talks about that, like recovering from the people who had really taken, uh stripped a lot of my positivity and my strength away.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was something that I vowed in that moment.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what became my company.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I really vowed to say, we need to, I need to put a stop to this.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Not we, it's not anybody else's responsibility.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know many of those, as I've healed and done the whole journey, many of those people were unaware.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: They had so low self-awareness.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: They had little idea of what their uh behavior did.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: They had little feedback and they also had a very little accountability.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in the past, that might have been okay, but it's not okay today.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: The younger generations will not put up with it.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And mental health is important.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think for especially men, because I know that your podcast focuses with men, uh, we don't talk a lot enough about mental health and how it affects men.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's a little bit taboo still, but this my what I do, it's really for the mental health of all people.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want people to turn into these people unintentionally, and I don't want anyone to suffer at the hands.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a little bit of a long-winded, but that's really how I why and how I do this is because I understand the pain of working in a toxic environment.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, potentially maybe, maybe I was a person who was hard to handle to somebody.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a little bit of both.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the key, and I hope you got this from the book, is that I'm not trying to label anyone.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to say this person is bad or this, like I don't, it's not about labeling.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's about really looking holistically at the situation and finding meaning, finding purpose, finding agency, you know?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of it self-awareness, emotional IQ, like things that some some people struggle with.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really cool that you took an experience that really, for lack of a better term, hurts you in a lot of ways, and you've totally flipped that around to where you're like, okay, how can I make a difference?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna help people become better leaders and so that other people don't have to experience what I experienced.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I you're not the only person I've heard this from where they've said, hey, culture's horrible.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, man, this is such a nice person.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe, you know, the culture's got to be so bad for this person to be feeling the way they do because they're so nice and they're so positive and they're trying to do a good job.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why is it like that?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that that kind of leads to my really my first question for you is why do you think, and and it has changed?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You were totally right that though, especially the last five or six years, we've seen cultures have to focus on this and leaders have to be better because people just won't put up with it like they used to.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: But why do you think it was the way it was for so long?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And why do you think people, besides just being a high performer, like why was that instilled in especially corporate culture for so long?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there are so many, man, I wish we had more than a half hour.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are so many reasons.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And my view of what I know to be true, and a big part of this, by the way, is that I didn't just experience this in America.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually worked around the globe.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've ex I worked in Australia, worked in a government office in Australia, I've worked in Japan, I've worked in Europe.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not just like a United States sort of problem.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is something globally that connects us for good or bad, because we're human, right?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a connectedness of how managers show up.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And Eastern and Western philosophy is going to be different.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: But here's how I see it like in a short little blip is that if we pull back in the original workplaces, it we come from that manufacturing, that doing, doing, doing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have leaders like kind of like just do the job, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then we go into the idea that in management, our job is to get the workers to do the job.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: The best tools that they had at the time was shut up and do the job.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: We hear the idea, if you will, of leave your leave your emotions at home.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because we had a lot of men working and they're emotional.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Men are allowed to be emotional, they're emotional.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like shut up and do the job.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have that instilled in so many generations, then you see the change of how people are working.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're seeing more women in the workplace.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're seeing more diversity and diversity that on a global scale.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just like, oh, you see more women, you see people who you wouldn't normally have connected with because they're remote workers.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're working in different countries, they're helping your team.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So now we have such a mix of rich diversity of workers, and we can't ask people to leave their emotions at home.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we go from like this very intense manual sort of working to now it's IT, now we're working on the computers, and now we're in the AI age where things are working faster and faster.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're seeing the implications of so many generations of holding your feelings back.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing what that does to us.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we're starting to see the implications of that mental health.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, for me, when I think about how important this is, is that high performers get a pass because they're on paper, they're doing what they need to be doing.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: The bosses who I worked with in the past, there was very little accountability because they were in the club, they get the pass.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned uh emotional intelligence.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: When we have high emotional intelligence with a group, it's easy because we all pick up on each other.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: But there are gonna be some people who are outside of that group.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so they are not treated with equity, which is normal and human, but we also have to be aware of that as leaders.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the reason I'm seeing this is that typically we we base things on money.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are they producing?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are they getting things done?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Are they hitting their goals?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if they are, then they're high performing.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: But really what we don't, what we're missing out on is that human element, is that our younger generations are men are becoming more vocal about mental health, right?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting sicker because of it, and our emotions need to go somewhere.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when we have these feelings, they just go in and they create disease.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So dis-ease, which then can turn into disease if not looked at, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this is important work.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's important, it's not just touchy-feely, it's not just like I want to sit and talk about your feelings.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is like, how do I get the best of you?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you're a human.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So when you need downtime, how do I, how am I there for you?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily have to hold your hand, but I do have to acknowledge that it's we're emotional beings.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: We are emotion, we're not robots yet.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we will.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I love this, Diana, because I haven't thought of it in this depth before.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, you, like you said, you see traditionally a higher performer, they do what they want, they can joke, they can be mean, leadership not really care because they're hitting their numbers.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and like how long it took for leadership to realize, like, hey, maybe this one or group of individuals, while they are high performing and have great numbers, what is it doing to the other 90% of our our core group here that's also extremely important to us?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like what if these these individuals leave and we have to rely on these people, but these people are so hurt and broken, like they're they don't want to be a part of the culture, the growth anymore.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we've you've really shot yourselves in the foot.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's it's interesting that it took so long for to start looking deeper into this situation because it's it's been there.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even in my short career, again, I'm thinking like, you know, the last 10-12 years, I've seen it, but I've seen the transition of the discussions being had and leadership being a little more vulnerable and open and and looking at different aspects of groups of people and diversity and how we're all different, how to like get it all moving in one direction instead of just focused on a small group of individuals hitting their numbers and that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just as you're talking through it, now I'm actually thinking about it as it's just something I can see.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just never thought of in depth before until looking through your book and then now talking to you.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that's true, is that before it's about numbers, it's about, but we can get better numbers.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, like early on, we didn't have the research, we called it people skills in the past.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are your people skills?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: These are not soft skills, these are actually skills that differentiate why people, like, for example, if you had a manager that you worked with and you loved, and you're like, oh, you're going to this company, take me with you, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we're seeing through research, and in the past they didn't have these tools.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have the research.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, as I focus on positive psychology, we have the research to say, these are not just nice to have.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is about actual performance.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now, as we move into this AI, even faster-paced age, now we have to figure out how not to give our people burnout.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is that is another challenge we have.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's we didn't have those tools because we didn't know, but now we know, so we should be able to do better by each other.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you had talked about earlier, if I can add just this, I work with a lot of high-performing people and their companies love them.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what they don't love is sometimes the how of what they do.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it's just lost in translation.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I always hear people say, We love this person.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: They do rape by us, they're a great person, but these things are off.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if we could get these things to be different, and so that person cares that I work with so much.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: They want every they they just have such a desire to do well and do right by the company.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're people, sometimes it's just lost in translation.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're not trying to be horrible, they're not trying to be mean.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if they are, that's a different subject.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, your book is interactive.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just uh read and uh, you know, hopefully you take something from it.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's questions you can ask yourself and there's things you can go through to really like critically think, how am I as a person?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: How's my organization?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: What are some things?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and because I don't want to give you that, I'd rather you talk about it than me.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: What are some things you put in the book that helps leaders, I guess, kind of self-assess them, self-assess their team and their organization so that they are optimal in the way they operate and that they're they're not falling into this, you know, old trap of having a culture of high performers that are, you know, doing one thing and everyone else doing another.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are some ways that you organized your books so that people can be successful with this?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you asked this because when I I read a lot of books.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I read a lot of these business books because I want to be better.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found is a lot of these amazing business books, they really just have one sentence filled out into 200 pages.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like one core idea that you're just like, wow, I'm keep reading the same thing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to create a something like that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I work with busy people, I work with parents, I work with people who look after their parents.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of in a say a stage of we either have a young family and we're looking after people.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have time to necessarily sit and read.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted the book to be really fast and easy to read.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: You should be able to read it in about 45 minutes.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: I also wrote it because I want people, my greatest hope is that people would take this book and say, let's have a dialogue about this.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's have a conversation.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of each very short chapter, because I didn't want it to be long, each chapter is about like two to three pages, there are some questions, and the questions serve as a way for people to talk about, well, when I had a manager, they made me feel like this.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is vulnerable territory.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not easy, and it's not an easy conversation to get started.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So each of the 10 chapters has questions.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, what I've done as well is if on my website, and I can actually give it to you as a resource if you want to share with your readers.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You you can download a free web uh free PDF that I have and it will show you how to run a workshop based on the book.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to do it in your group, or it'll show you how to have a book club with a group or sorry, with the book.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let me say that again.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have a thank you.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have a free PDF that shows you how to run a workshop for the book with the book, and then how to run use it in an ERG or potentially for a book club.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that way, you don't have to hire me, but you do have all the resources to start having these conversations.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're so important.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're so important.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I love this because your book is one of those that teams could read or leadership groups could read.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of like a couple, uh, and they do read that, like they they do read books and hand it out to their teammates.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a couple that I read every single year because a leader gave to us as a group, and it's one that's resonated with me, and and the one I read is about personal accountability.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I love that book.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just kind of every year, I'll kind of be a servant leader and such, but your book seems to be in line with one that I would potentially read every year too, just to kind of refocus and make sure I have the same, the right mindset and approach as like I'm working with different people and different teams and trying to build different things.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how can I make sure I'm going about this the right way?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think your book's one of those ones that can just help reset your mind the right way as you approach these things.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I just think that's the style of your book that a lot of people could take away from.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Diana, what are you most proud of throughout this journey of writing this book?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, you professional, you experience these things.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: You decide, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna help people be better leaders.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're a CEO and a founder of this and in running it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then now you've got a you're a published author where you're you're sharing the same message and really trying to have an impact.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: But as you look back at what you've been able to build and accomplish, what are some things that, you know, I know people don't like to talk about themselves and you've got so much more to do, but what are some things that you do?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You look back and you go, I'm really proud of myself for doing this and building this and for trying to have a positive impact on people.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's that's an important question because I think we don't celebrate our wins enough.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was talking with a peer earlier, like a colleague, and she was her and I were talking that I have been through, let's say, a decade, maybe more, of really challenging workplaces, of workplaces that really worked hard to break my spirit.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the thing I'm most proud about is that I didn't succumb to it.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because had I been like, you know what, they're right.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't do anything right, I'm not good at this, where might I be now?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I am just stubborn and I think I don't take other people's opinions for it's their opinion.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're allowed to have their opinion, but I I haven't let that really dictate the meaning, I think, that I want to help other people.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I always knew, like, I want to help people, but when you say that, it's so general.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: When I was little, like, what do you want to be when you grow up?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't know, I want to help people.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Do you want to be a doctor?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be this?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know how to help people.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think through that sheer, let's call it a decade of really toxic and difficult environments, I think that's really giving me purpose.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm proud that I wasn't, I didn't give up.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And even now, I'm not saying it's easy, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as a recruiter, um you pick your heart.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're either an entrepreneur and that's hard, or you work for somebody and that's hard.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this you would ask about the how do you how do you really help people?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's actually I created a second book that's a workbook.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then this even goes deeper.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So this has the questions that if if you don't want to coach or you don't want to do that, but you want to do the deeper reflective work, you can go deeper there.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think between this, my books, my two books, I'm uh it's coming out in Spanish next year.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and just my really my desire to help people either not become difficult or learn how to work with difficult people and reframe their mind around it.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I have to say, my favorite things.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the book got Amazon bestseller, which I'm also proud about.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I've put it up for some other awards, which hopefully one day I will see the fruits of that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just proud of being able to employ that resilience for myself and not let it jade me, like make me jaded from people.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love people and they're not perfect and they do bad things.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: But when I look back, I'm grateful for those people who did all those bad things.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: First off, I'm super glad you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Putting it in Spanish.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I minored in Spanish.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe I'll challenge myself and try to read it in Spanish just for some practice.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I love that you described it that way because you're right.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: You could have totally gone a different route and you could have been suppressed to the point that you just never decided to go do your own thing, or you may not have had the confidence to do that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking like, how many people out there hadn't lived up to their potential or taken the steps to maximize their life because somebody just put them down so much that they just they started to believe it instead of you know going after what they dreamed of doing or what their purpose and passion was.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's kind of a sad thing to think about.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: That there are probably a lot of people out there that that have gone through that and could look back and say, hey, I maybe would have done something different, but wow, I had such a horrible experience and horrible people, and I just don't want to deal with that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad you're trying to change that with your work.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Dina, that's kind of where I want to get in, ask you just a couple more questions, but one specifically with your book.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, actually, I want to get to that in a second.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: When would people?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you obviously you have these resources out there.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: So companies, people, teams can buy your book, we can go over it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: When typically do you recommend them actually working with you directly?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there a certain size of a company?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a certain situation that is like to the point where a book just isn't enough and you need to get in there and get your hands dirty?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when do you consult and say, like, hey, I think in this case, I'm your best resource to come in and help?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's actually a fair question.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, one part of that I will say if a person reads the book and they really identify with like, okay, I see that this consultant has a way to deal with this.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a way to deal with this.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: That I would say is number one.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because as you read the book, and it was really made for somebody who has to work with somebody who's difficult.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: In this case, it's the HR person, but that doesn't mean it's in all cases.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, number two, if you're working through the workbook, if you're like, I think I need a little more help, you're working through the workbook, and then you're like, I think I need more help here because something's lost in translation.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm showing up to work, I'm putting it in, and my team is like quiet quitting on me, right?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a person who can identify that, and then I would say, so that's this the second way.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would say the third way is that if typically it is an HR person, if they're hearing so much about this person, they're they did their research, they asked all the people, they can pinpoint it to one person, and this person is valuable to the organization.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: They need them, they maybe have a network or IP, a history of the company, but they can't fire them.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's too expensive to fire them.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they're a small company and they're like, it's gonna get illegal.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that's one to call me because I I would say that if you don't know what to do, I know what to do.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I know what to do.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it and it works.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if the person is up for it, we can do really awesome things together.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's perfect.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to ask that because there are a lot of uh, you know, within my network, directors, VPs, founders, so people that may listen and watch this and go, hey, when do I know I need Diana?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to make sure that was clarified.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: For the rest of us, so someone like myself, maybe I'm reading it from a, you know, a director hands me the book and we read it as a team, or you know, different groups are reading your book and studying the the workbook.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: If nothing else, if there's just one or two pieces of information that you really hope that people like me or other people reading your book take away from it, what are those nuggets that you want people to pick up on, if nothing else?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: So many nuggets.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's probably a lot.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the one thing I want people to take away from this is that it's really for me comes down to self-awareness.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you are asking, if you're a manager and you're asking, give me feedback and you're getting quality feedback and you're not acting on it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: The the reason I talk about people not being, I don't want people to think I'm labeling.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I might say, don't be a chuck.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not doing the Karen thing or I'm not doing, you know, that it's the idea that if you're hard to handle for somebody, you can also change that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel that other people are hard to handle, they're probably thinking you're hard to deal with as well.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if I could give like one takeaway, is it's in this day and age, your one competitive advantage is self-awareness and emotional intelligence.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is the one thing you can do best, you have control over, and which will help you change the environment.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's like the one thing I would say is a lot of people say, Oh, well, I'm really I have the emotional intelligence.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like really good at that, and I'm really great with people, and that's good, and keep working on it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And always keep because younger generations are coming in.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you find yourself saying, Well, they're annoying because they're not doing it the way I would.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you need to change yourself.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if everyone else is a problem, you need to change yourself.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the one thing I I often think to myself, Am I being somebody's chuck?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, to be fair, sometimes if we are difficult, that might rise, that might be a good thing and help somebody rise to the occasion.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so there's I'm not saying it as a good or bad thing, but it's more of an art than a science.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Different situations call for different measures.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, you're not just because you're good at something today, things change.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Continue to learn, continue to stay curious, continue to get better.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've been so blessed to talk with so many great leaders like yourself on this podcast, and they always say the same thing.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, hey, I'm like, I don't know as much as you think I know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm continuing to learn, I'm continuing to try and improve.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Things change daily, monthly, yearly.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, that's why I'm able to get better and be at my role because I'm not getting comfortable and thinking I know it all.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And self-awareness, emotional IQ, it's things we can practice every day and learn more about and just become a better people, you know, throughout our lives.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I see people who are maybe difficult to work with.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have typically, it's not that they're difficult.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, there's something that is, there's some sort of resistance.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: It could be even a belief that they have about themselves.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this is also, again, because I know you're focused on men and helping men.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of us hold these beliefs, men, women, we hold these beliefs and they're born and then they sprout and we believe these things to be true.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And because we have this belief, it makes us difficult to work with.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: For example, if I was always told growing up that I'm incompetent as I grow up, I'm gonna have that thought, oh, well, I'm kind of incompetent, so I don't really know this.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I say working on yourself.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you need therapy, find a way to get therapy.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you need a spiritual transformation, find a way to do that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you show up best for yourself and for others.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And really, so that's the key takeaway: self-awareness, understanding how your words land on other people and asking for feedback.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're never, you are never at a detriment if you understand how people experience you and if you're trying to curate that.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't care, that's on you.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, can't help, can't help that.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can't help you.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, here's the the sad thing about life is that some people go through life, they don't care, they do really well, and it just works out for them.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: But for most people, that's not the case.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, nope.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're 100% right.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Diana, last question for you.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm excited about this question.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I ask it to everyone who comes on the podcast, and you said you read a lot of books, and I just I love asking this because you could answer this differently based on the year I ask you or what's going on in your life.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally, and what's a book or two that you love to recommend to other people?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I can only choose one.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, you you can give a couple if you need to.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's a good one.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love Atlas of the Heart by Brene Brown.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I love it because it's a map of the heart, and I think once we understand ourselves and our own emotions better, we judge people less.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So Atlas of the Heart is definitely one of them.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's another book that I have to look this up if you're okay with it.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, please do.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I work a lot with my clients.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: A good friend of mine gave me this book, and ever since I'm like, wow, I recommend it to people.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Feelings buried, buried alive, never die.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think fundamentally we now have evidence that our emotions turn to, they have to go somewhere.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So although we might think they're fleeting or intangible, they actually are created in our body and they go somewhere.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So when we hold have rage, it goes straight to our liver.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And over time, when somebody has a liver problem, it's because we didn't process these feelings.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this book, the reason I recommend it is because when I experience an ailment, when a client of mine experiences an ailment, I like to go to that book and see what the corresponding emotion is with that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say, for example, they're having like eye problems.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: I go there and I say, Are you experiencing any of these emotions?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in what ways can we process those emotions to free your eyes up, right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So again, it's an art, it's not a science, but it makes a difference.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love that.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because even like actual physically, it's amazing how incredible things are tied together.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And this is all factors and in our bodies, and it's it's an interesting topic to like dive in and study too, which is very fascinating.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really cool.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I probably read that book.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to add that to my list because I think that's one I'll certainly be interested in.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good one.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, if somebody, for example, they're like, Oh, I'm having all these stomach issues, it's because they can't stomach the world around them.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: So then the coaching questions are like, how do how do you process that?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you need to stomach that you can't?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's so interesting.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And once you understand how powerful your emotions are, you can't unknow that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start to deal with things.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: You start to have more difficult conversations because it's about your health and your wellness, your mental health, your mental well-being.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly don't think we teach men that enough.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something that it's hard.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's very important.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: The way we think, mental, physical, there's all these factors you gotta kind of hone in on and try to practice and find that balance wheel, you know, so that you can opt, you know, live at an optimized state.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta, there's always an area to work on.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I love that you mentioned that because that is something that needs to be discussed a little bit more.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great book for people to read and and kind of dig in a little bit on.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't read it before, I haven't even heard of that book.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll send you the link to it too, so you can get it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I have it in like three different forms because I want to hear it, I want to read it, I want to underline it, you know.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a great cool.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm probably gonna be like you.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: How how many ways can I like absorb this knowledge?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: But Diana, thank you so much for coming on here and having this conversation.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm again, you've it's so cool to hear your story.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool to see the work you're doing, and you've got so much more great work and impact to have.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh just we're proud to spotlight your work and keep keep sharing positivity and happiness and keep trying to build those positive leaders out there because everyone knows we need them, you know, especially now and where we're headed.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: We need positive, good leaders out there to so that we can maximize what we're trying to do in the world.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, proud, proud to spotlight you.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And Diana, just keep doing the good work.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for spotlighting the book.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, thanks.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Diana.