Latest / Low to Grow / Aghogho Okpara: 6 Med School Rejections to 400k Community Achieve with Aghogho

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Aghogho Okpara: 6 Med School Rejections to 400k Community Achieve with Aghogho · Low to Grow

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Career like medicine. People shrink because of mental
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health battles. It's really well known how high
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like suicide rates are within this profession because people
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don't rely on other people for help and they really go through
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a lot of things alone and by themselves.
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Today I am joined by someone whose voice and actions are
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reshaping the features of many young people across the world.
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A Go go is ABBC feature to change makeup one of the Irish
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Times Face of the future. I know so.
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A nominee for Tik Tok's Voices for Change, Gogo is a current
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medical student at University College Dublin.
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I went into that 6th exam with the mindset of I don't care
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actually. If I fail this time I'm going to
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keep trying. If it takes me 10 more attempts
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to get into medicine, I will sit this exam 10 more times.
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She was accepted on her sixth try into magical school and her
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story of determination and resilience inspires many young
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people today. I'm a huge believer in
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educational equity. I think it's unfortunate that
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certain groups in society really don't have access to things that
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other groups are almost born with.
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And also the founder of Achieve with a Go Go, whose community of
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over 400,000 people follows her for one united reason.
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A Go Go inspires each of them to believe in themselves.
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Honestly, Annie, I I had to learn how to rely on people for
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support. I think that was one of the
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greatest lessons my dad's death taught me.
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Being somebody who was very hyper independent and has been
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that way for most of my life. You sometimes fool yourself into
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thinking you can do everything and you can't.
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I'll share something personal that I haven't actually shared
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online before ever. Basically, the week before my
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dad passed away, I had a. Quick note before we start, if
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you have enjoyed this podcast and want to support our
1:53
incredible guests, please follow LO to Grow podcast on Instagram
1:58
and TikTok. Welcome to Load to grow, the
2:01
podcast transforming life's toughest moments into
2:04
opportunity for growth. I'm Annie, a Focus on Authority
2:08
Technology founder whose entrepreneurship journey ran
2:11
parallel to a mental health awakening.
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In every episode, I sit down with inspiring individuals and
2:18
delve into how they managed to turn their personal or
2:21
professional challenges into opportunities for growth.
2:25
If you're facing uncertainty in your life, feeling down, or
2:28
simply need a kick of inspiration to keep moving
2:31
forward, this is your space for the honest and uplifting
2:35
conversations that you will want to hear.
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Hit follow so you never miss an episode and let's dive in our go
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go. Welcome to my low to grow
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podcast. It's a pleasure to have you.
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Let me start by asking you who do you want to be listening to
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our conversation today? Well, thank you so much for
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having me. I think that the people who
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would benefit the most from listening would be people who
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have experienced failure or rejection in the past and they
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feel like they want to create new things for themselves.
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They want to be able to believe in themselves again.
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I think people who are looking to grow their sense of
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confidence within themselves, as well as people who have been
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through situations in the past that they feel like might hold
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them back from success in the future.
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So for example, the background they've come from or certain
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life experiences. I think that if people are
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looking for hope, this is the right episode to listen to.
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Wonderful and I cannot wait to delve into your story.
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I know. So the learnings that you have
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had a monster with you a go go. Where would you say that your
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story starts? If I'm to go right back to it, I
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have a bit of AI, suppose multifaceted career right now.
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I'm currently in my last year of medical school, but I'm also the
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founder of a nonprofit and I'm a speaker as well.
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So I do a couple different things alongside being a content
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creator. But going right back to the
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beginning of my story and my career path is me deciding to
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become a doctor when I was around 14 years old.
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It's a kind of a bit of a funny story.
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I was walking down the hallway in school with my friend at the
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time, and she mentions that she wants to become a pediatric
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oncologist one day. And I'm looking at her and I'm
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like, what is that? And I had never heard of those
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words before at 14. And she explains it's a doctor
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that takes care of kids who have cancer.
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So I was really, really intrigued by it.
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And that day I went home, went into my like my laptop, searched
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on Google, pediatric oncologist, and I went on this pretty much
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rabbit hole of the different types of doctors that there are,
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what they do, how medicine pretty much changes the world.
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And I became really, really, really intrigued by it.
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And that's when I decided that I wanted to become a doctor.
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I was somebody who until now was really interested in like
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nutrition and diet and the effects that the current like
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like western diet would have on people's hearts in the future.
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And so that really drove me to study medicine.
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But my journey to medicine is very, very non linear, very
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unconventional. It took me 6 attempts in total
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before I got admitted to medical school.
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So the first time I sat like a medical admissions exam.
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I was about 16 years old at the time, and then the last time I
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sat one, I was 20. I was 21 years old the last time
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I sat a medical exam or 22. So it was a long journey.
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And I think for most people who want to become doctors, it's a
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lot more straightforward. Most people will write an exam
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once or a maximum of twice, and then they'll get in.
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But I think the thing that makes my story a little bit different
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is the fact that I didn't give up.
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Each and every time I experienced those failures, I
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would have these high hopes that, you know, this is going to
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be the time. And then I would be knocked down
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again. And it just kind of kept
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happening like that over and over and over again.
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I learned a lot through the process, though.
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Yeah, it's interesting looking back at it now because my
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journey into medicine is what pretty much set me up to create
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an online platform of over 400,000 followers now.
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It's what set me up to build my nonprofit, which focuses on
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helping students believe in themselves, and it's achieved
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with Algo. That's what the name of the
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nonprofit is. And it's also helped me to
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become a public speaker because now I have a story to share.
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I think it just kind of goes back to that statement that
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people tend to say of turning your pain into purpose.
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I feel like my life and my story is a huge like example of that.
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That's such a beauty, for example, of resilience and are
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so great. And I really want to delve into
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what it felt like for you to have tried 6 times over the
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course of five years to get into medical school and only
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succeeding after six times. Because a lot of people with
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your background and also with the experiences that you were
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having at the time could have easily given up or chosen to go
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down a different path. That's also very successful, but
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not medicine. So what kept you fixated on
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getting into medical school? Yeah, so this is an interesting
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question. I get asked this every time I do
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a talk, actually. People seem to be really
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fascinated by the fact that I didn't give up and I kept
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trying. I think #1 is I've always been a
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very determined person. When I want something for
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myself, I, I make sure I get it. I almost would say that I'm
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stubborn to the extreme in that where most people would say, OK,
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this is probably a sign I should stop.
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I just see it as a challenge for me to essentially keep going.
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And I think when it came to medicine in particular, I knew
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that I had an interest in how health would evolve over time,
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but I was also very interested in science and in problem
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solving. And what made me keep pursuing
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it is the fact I actually at that time, and it's funny
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because we might speak about this later, but I could only see
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medicine as the path for me. I could not imagine myself in
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any other field or in any other career or with any other job
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that would satisfy the sorts of desires that I had, Especially
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when it came to things like my interest in learning, my
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interest in continuous learning and science and helping people.
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I feel like I did a lot of exploration of different types
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of careers and I found that medicine was the one that seemed
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to kind of hit that spot for me. And so I went full force for it.
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But I think a big part of me also continuing is I had really
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good support. My dad was a huge, huge voice in
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my life. And I, I think for a lot of
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people, the reason why they give up on their dreams is because
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the people who are around them, whether it's friends or family
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or community, they tell them that maybe you should try
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something else. Maybe you should consider a
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different career. Maybe you should steer this way
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or that way. But I had a father who was
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extremely like, he really, really believed in me.
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And every time I experienced a failure, he would react like it
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was the most normal thing and he would just say, do you know
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what? You can try again.
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It's completely OK if it doesn't work out this time because
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you'll have another attempt in the future where you'll be able
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to apply yourself and perhaps you'll get in at that time.
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And so I think having that voice that constantly said to me, you
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are capable, you have what it takes, you can do this.
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It really instilled a sense of self belief within myself that
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made me think, OK, even though things aren't going in the way
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that I want, it doesn't mean it's going to be this way
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forever. And so I kept pushing for that
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for those reasons because I had those voices and I had that
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determination. And also my faith actually
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played a huge aspect in it as well.
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I'm a big believer in purpose and in how each human being I
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believe has a purpose here on earth.
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And it took me a long time before I, you know, believed
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that medicine was part of my purpose here on earth.
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And I spent a lot of time praying about it.
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And so once I had that sense of peace that this is what I want
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and this is what I believe God wants for me, I was like, no
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matter what, I'm going to go full-fledged for this.
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And I know it's going to work out because I saw it as
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something bigger than me. And thankfully, I mean, on the
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sixth attempt, I ended up getting it.
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So got got feeling if you call it that, I don't know, it ended
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up being OK, yeah. Wow, I love that and I also love
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how poignant today is that we're recording this the eve after one
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of your big medical exams. So thank you for taking the
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time. I think a lot of other students
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that I know probably would have chosen to take this evening off
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to go celebrate, but I really appreciate you taking the time
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to come and Share your story on the logical podcast Go go.
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I do want to delve into what that process of you finding out
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and identifying for yourself what your purpose in life is,
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which is medicine. But before then, I do want to
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ask you to just Cher, if you're willing to how it felt each of
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the first five times that you took the test and you realized
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that you did not get the result that you want.
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Because I think a lot of times people talk about the final
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success, but I think it's also really important to talk about,
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you know, exactly what your mindset and also will your
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emotions were on each of those five different occasions as
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well. 100% And I completely agree with you, Ani.
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I think that on across the board, people speak too much
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about success and they don't speak about the failures.
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And So what tends to happen is people that experience that
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failure or that rejection, they begin to look down on themselves
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or they begin to try and force themselves to get over something
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that realistically you should take time to process.
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And so looking back on the five failures that I experienced, I
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definitely was not, I didn't feel resilient at the time.
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I definitely didn't feel like somebody who had grit, to be
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very honest. Those failures made me look
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within myself and almost question my worth at times.
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To be very honest, the 1st 2 failures I experienced were not
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that bad because I still had hope at that time.
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I was in secondary school when I sat the first 3 attempts I made
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to get into medical school in terms of those exams.
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And so when the 1st 2 didn't go well, I was like OK, the third
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one is my last attempt to get into medical school straight
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after my like secondary school experience slash high school
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experience. And I remember receiving the
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third rejection. That's when it really hit for me
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because now it was like, OK, I'm about to start university in
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three months from now. And based on these grades, this
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results from this examination, I know for a fact I will not get
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medicine. And so it's funny, I remember,
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like I can vividly remember being in the corner of my
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bedroom and crying my eye eyes out because I felt like
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everything that I had spent the past two years working towards
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had suddenly just gone down the drain.
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Because to give you some even more background, I wanted to
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attend medical school in the UK. And so that's why I was sitting
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so many exams. I sat what they called the B
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mat. I sat the UK CAT and and then I
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also sat the Irish medical exams.
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But The thing is I didn't go to a private school and I wasn't
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connected with people who could help me prepare my applications
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for the UK. Also, the school I went to the,
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they weren't used to people applying to the UK from 15.
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Really I was navigating everything myself.
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I remember I would be to go to my guidance counselor and say
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this is what they're asking of me, this is what they recommend.
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And it was almost like two people were working together to
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try and figure things out. But because of that, I had to
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really teach myself a lot of things.
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So for example, to sit the BMAT exam, which would be required
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for the likes of like Oxbridge as well as some other UK medical
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schools, I had to learn physics. And because one of the sections
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on that exam examines you on biology, chemistry, physics and
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I think maths. And at the time in school I was
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only taking biology and chemistry.
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And so I like at the age of 16, took it upon myself to learn
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physics all by myself. I bought this psychics textbook
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and after a long day at school, I would go home and treat
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physics like it was another subject that I was taking in
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school and that like that level of effort over 2 years.
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It took a lot out of me. In a similar sense, I was
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preparing for for my final exam. So it would be like an A level
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equivalent called the Leaving Cert here in Ireland.
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And because I knew that I needed like, impeccable grades to get
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into the likes of like Cambridge or UCL or the likes of that for
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medicine, I had to work 10 times harder than anybody around me.
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And most people here would only start doing that work in their
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final year of like high school, secondary school.
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But I started doing it in my penultimate year.
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So I spent two years doing what people usually do in one in
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terms of the amount of focus I was giving it.
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And so I, I provide all that context just to say that when I
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had that meltdown in my room after the 3rd rejection, it was
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an accumulation of everything hitting me that all the work
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that you've just spent the past two years of your life
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committing to. I had deleted social media for
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the entire year. I had not seen my friends in a
15:46
long time. I sacrificed a lot and it seemed
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to all be for nothing. And so I was distraught.
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To be very honest, I couldn't really see any hope in my
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future. I know it sounds really dramatic
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now that I like kind of look back on it, but it's how I felt
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at the time. I was really disappointed, you
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know, in myself and I didn't really know what was the next
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step for me. And it took a lot of courage for
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me to decide to sit my 4th exam, which I did maybe like seven
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months later. So I did it in my first year of
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my undergraduate degree, which is by medical health and life
16:21
sciences. And I remember when I sat that
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4th exam, I basically performed worse than the third exam that I
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did in that. And tell you the truth, Annie,
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that's when I gave up and I said no, more medicine is not for me.
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A lot of people don't realize this when they hear my story.
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They think that I just pushed through the whole time.
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No, I completely said that I'm walking away from this field.
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I told myself that I would either do a PhD and like
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Physiology or else I would go and study dentistry in Canada or
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something like that. But that medicine was clearly
16:54
not for me. And I wasn't going to allow
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myself to keep going through the process of trying and failing.
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Because in truth, after a while, I mean after four times of
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trying to do something and it doesn't work, you then start to
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feel like you are the failure. I no longer saw failure as an
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experience. I equated it with my identity.
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And I saw myself as somebody who was of low worth because no
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matter how much I had tried to apply myself, things don't seem
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to work out in the way that I want to.
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And so I spent like the next maybe two years or so really
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trying to avoid medicine. I dismissed the even even the
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the prompt to grow myself in terms of like, OK, you've
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experienced this thing, how about we change mindset?
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I avoided thinking about it, full stop.
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It wasn't until coming up to my fifth attempt where I realized
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that I still feel like there's something in me that's calling
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out to do medicine. So maybe I do need to face that
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fear. And honestly, it was in
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preparing for my 5th admission exam that I realized how much
17:56
the fear of failure was paralyzing me.
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I actually barely studied for that exam because I was so
18:03
afraid of doing bad in it and that I almost self sabotage
18:07
myself so that I wouldn't end up doing bad or or doing good
18:10
either way. And it's funny because in that
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fifth exam I, I was so close. I think I missed it by two
18:16
points in that exam. But that even that experience of
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getting so close to the mark, for some reason, rather than me
18:22
feeling like a failure, it made me think, OK, if you can perform
18:26
this well without like studying like crazy, then what would
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happen if you were to just try and give it a risk and see what
18:35
happens? And thankfully I did.
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And that's what culminated in my 6th entry exam, which was to
18:42
God, successful. So it's been a bit of a like
18:45
roller coaster journey in terms of emotions, feelings, but yeah,
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that's pretty much it. Wow, what a roller coaster
18:52
indeed. And I actually did not realize
18:54
how you staggered. Like.
18:55
Sounds like you took the first three.
18:57
They were taken before you started your first university
19:00
degree. All with the hopes of getting in
19:02
somewhere to do medicine as your first university degree.
19:05
I mean, he actually took some time off and then retried again
19:08
for 1/4 and 5th time whilst you were at university doing your
19:11
first degree. There was actually a point where
19:14
you decided to give up on even thinking about doing medicine
19:18
and actually turning away from the idea of you studying
19:22
medicine at all in this lifetime.
19:24
What then made you take the action to do that 5th and then
19:28
that last sixth exam? Yeah, that's a great question.
19:32
I think that when I look back on it, what made me do the 5th exam
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again, going back to the fact that I'm a person of faith, I
19:39
started really feeling appalling that you need to try again
19:43
because medicine is still for you.
19:45
And it was something I really tried to ignore.
19:49
But I, again, I'm a big believer that when you are quote UN quote
19:53
destined for something, you can't run away from it even if
19:57
you try. It's that whole thing of if it's
19:59
meant to be, it will be. People tend to speak about that
20:02
in a romantic setting, but I actually experienced that in a
20:05
career light that if it's meant to be like, no matter what, it
20:10
will be. And that's what I experienced.
20:12
When it came to the medicine thing, because again, I spent a
20:14
lot of time, I was preparing to graduate from university coming
20:19
up to the fifth exam because I sat that one in my final year of
20:22
my undergraduate degree. And towards that time, I was
20:26
just thinking, OK, what am I going to do once I graduate?
20:28
Am I going to work in a scientific lab?
20:30
Am I going to do a PhD? Will I pursue dentistry?
20:34
And so again, I was just spending a lot of time praying
20:37
about it like to God, to Jesus, and being like, OK, what's next
20:41
for me? And I felt like that was really
20:43
illuminated to me as the path that I was supposed to take,
20:47
even though within myself, I felt like I don't want to put
20:51
myself through this again. I felt like something bigger
20:53
than me was calling me to it. But funnily enough that you say
20:57
for the 6th exam, what pushed me to study for that?
21:00
So I mentioned my dad previously, he was a huge, huge
21:04
influence in my life in pushing me to believe in myself.
21:07
And unfortunately, he passed away shortly after my 5th exam.
21:14
And that was very, very, very difficult for me.
21:17
So I think I received the results for that exam in August
21:21
time and my dad had passed away. He later passed in November of
21:26
that same year. That was 2021 when that
21:29
happened. I was obviously heartbroken and
21:33
it was a really, really, really difficult time in my life.
21:38
But it's funny because instead of his death destabilizing me
21:44
and making me feel like, well, it definitely did destabilize me
21:47
in ways, but instead of it making me feel like I need to
21:50
steer away from the things that I want and just take time, I
21:55
felt this news like surge of I need to try and if not for my
22:01
sake, then for the sake of my dad.
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And it's funny because a lot of people will hear this and they
22:05
might think, oh, maybe my dad was like, you know, quote UN
22:08
quote forcing me towards medicine.
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He was never the the one who made me want to be a doctor.
22:13
There's no doctors in my family. I decided all by myself that I
22:17
wanted to study medicine. He was just supportive
22:20
throughout and I just remembered how much he believed that I was
22:24
eventually going to get in. Kind of makes me emotional
22:26
thinking about it now. I remember when I got my 5th
22:31
examination results and I found out that I I was not going to
22:35
get in because I missed it by two points.
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I had already told my dad that I was probably going to get in
22:43
because the points that I had gotten that year, if I had
22:46
gotten those same points one year prior, I would have
22:49
actually gotten admission. So the points pretty much like
22:52
elevated and threshold increased.
22:55
And so before the offers went out, I told him that I think I'm
22:59
going to get into medicine this year.
23:01
And I had started preparing, like to move to the town for
23:05
that university literally started like learning how to
23:08
drive because it's a type of town where you kind of need to
23:11
drive. This is not reliable public
23:13
transport. I started buying duvet bed
23:16
dressings. I really prepared myself for
23:20
this new stage of my life. I literally had started planning
23:23
a going away party and I sent invites out to my friends
23:27
saying, guys, I'm about to move because I've gotten into this
23:31
university to study medicine. And then of course, the offer
23:35
day came. I didn't receive an offer.
23:38
And I was shocked because I didn't expect that to happen.
23:42
But the bigger thing was I had this fear of what's going to
23:45
happen. Now if I'm to tell my dad that I
23:48
actually didn't get in because I know that he's already gotten
23:52
really excited about this. I'm really happy about it and
23:55
has told his friends etcetera. And so I actually delayed
23:58
telling him for maybe like a month.
24:00
I was really afraid of what his reaction might be.
24:03
Not because he would be the type of person to give a scary
24:06
reaction, but just because I fear disappointing him after
24:10
getting his hopes up. And I'll never forget the phone
24:13
call that I had with my dad that day.
24:15
I told him and my voice was shaking and his response was out
24:20
of this world. It was literally just, that's
24:23
okay, you're going to get it the next time.
24:25
He he didn't seem fazed by it in the slightest.
24:29
There was no hint of disappointment in his his tone.
24:33
He was just so confident in me and in my ability and he, he
24:37
just saw it as another obstacle in the road.
24:40
And when he died, I really reflected on that and I told
24:44
myself that if he believed so much in me, then I owe it to
24:48
myself to believe in myself as well.
24:51
And then I owe it to him to try again.
24:53
And so I did. And it's so funny because the
24:56
mindset I went into that 6th exam with was the mindset of I
25:02
don't care actually, if I fail this time, I'm going to keep
25:05
trying. If it takes me 10 more attempts
25:08
to get into medicine, I will sit this exam 10 more times.
25:12
I finally had let go of my fear of failure when I sat that 6th
25:16
exam. And it's so funny because that
25:19
ended up being the exam that worked out.
25:21
So it's almost like in a funny way, it's almost like life was
25:24
trying to teach me something through that.
25:26
And once the lesson was learned, it was like, OK, now you can
25:29
move forward. Wow, I'm getting goosebumps
25:33
hearing you tell that story. Go, go.
25:35
And your father, what a loving, encouraging man.
25:39
I mean, over the course of our conversation so far, it really
25:42
jumped out to me that your faith and I saw the loving support,
25:46
the kind support of your father were two really instrumental
25:51
pillars that really how do you got along that journey?
25:54
Thank you for sharing that. And I said thank you for talking
25:57
about losing your father. I know that's a really difficult
25:59
topic when you lost your father, and I say when there was still
26:03
the uncertainty about whether or not you're going to be able to
26:05
go to medical school, how did you keep yourself active and
26:10
productive and working towards a goal?
26:13
Because I think those are two huge life events that can happen
26:17
in a person's life, and I think some people can very easily, and
26:21
I say very understandably, just take some time off before really
26:25
pushing themselves again. What gave you that grit to just
26:29
keep going straight away? Yeah, Well, great question.
26:32
Honestly, I think that a part of it was, I mean, it wasn't
26:37
immediate. I sat the exam in March and my
26:39
dad had passed in November. So maybe there was like a like a
26:43
four or five month gap in between, but I think a big part
26:48
of it was leaning on people for support.
26:50
And I was really thankful that when my dad passed, my friends
26:54
were of a huge support to me. They really showed up for me.
26:57
And honestly, Annie, I, I had to learn how to rely on people for
27:02
support. I think that was one of the
27:04
greatest lessons that my dad's death taught me.
27:06
I used to be a very independent person, almost hyper
27:10
independent. If I was going through something
27:13
low mentally, I wouldn't share it with anybody.
27:15
I would stick to myself and I would try my best to find my way
27:20
out of whatever tunnel I was in alone.
27:22
And I remember for the first time in my life, when my dad
27:26
passed, I was like, I don't think I have the to do this
27:29
alone. I also feared what would happen
27:32
to my mental health if I tried to do it alone.
27:35
Because in the past I dealt with, I dealt with mental health
27:39
struggles. I used to deal with depression
27:41
when I was younger. And so I was really afraid that
27:44
it would pretty much swallow me if I was to try to face it by
27:50
myself, especially after such a huge life event.
27:54
And so I remember at that time, I started proactively reaching
27:57
out to my friends and I would ask them, would you be happy to
28:00
come over and spend the day with me?
28:03
I would call people when I felt like I needed to talk about
28:06
things and talk about what I was going through.
28:08
I would intentionally try to leave the house at times in
28:12
order to change my environment. I was really, really intentional
28:17
about ensuring that the support systems in my life were actually
28:21
able to support me and they weren't just there.
28:24
Because I think sometimes what we can do, especially as young
28:27
people, is we see these support systems as just infrastructure
28:32
rather than things that we can actually use and things that we
28:35
should use. Really.
28:37
I'm grateful looking back now that I made those decisions to
28:41
actually like ask for help and ask people if they wouldn't mind
28:46
having a conversation with me or going for coffee or this or
28:49
that. Because going forward now, it's
28:51
really taught me a lot. I think in a career like
28:53
medicine, people shrink because of mental health battles.
28:58
It's really well known how high, like, suicide rates are within
29:02
this profession because people don't rely on other people for
29:05
help, and they really go through a lot of things alone and by
29:08
themselves. And so I think that the reason
29:11
why I was able to get back on my feet so quickly is because I had
29:15
people holding up my arms. Do you know what I mean?
29:18
It wasn't like I was standing up by myself, but it's like people
29:21
around me were like, OK, I'll take her elbow.
29:24
I'll take her other elbow. Let's see if we can get her
29:27
standing. And so.
29:28
Yeah, until today. I'm so grateful to all of my
29:31
friends, all of my family, my church, the community around me
29:35
who really held me up at a time where realistically, I, I should
29:39
not have been able to have been able to thrive in those periods
29:43
of time. So yeah, I'm, I'm really, really
29:46
grateful. Shout out to all the people who
29:49
are there to hold you up and who gave up their time to give that
29:52
energy to you in such a challenging time.
29:54
I really love how you shared about that mindset shift that
29:58
you had internally of being someone who used to be very
30:01
independent and never asking for help, to someone who actually
30:04
then actively seeked time, attention, support from other
30:08
people when you knew that you needed it.
30:10
Can I ask what triggered that in you?
30:13
How did that mindset shift happen for you?
30:15
Was it something that you've read about or did someone in
30:17
your circle will recommend it for you?
30:19
I had a great friend who when my dad passed away, she said
30:24
something very interesting in one of her messages to me.
30:27
She was like, let me know how I can help you.
30:31
Like let me know in what capacity I can help you.
30:35
And I think most of the time where people reach out, they
30:39
tend to say things like, if you need anything, let me know or
30:43
I'm here for you. It's almost like these
30:45
statements that are well meaning, but they can come
30:48
across a bit empty at times because a person won't really
30:52
know what to do with those statements.
30:54
But she specifically like gave examples.
30:56
I think she was like, if you want me to get groceries for
30:59
you, if you need somebody to talk to you just tell me
31:03
specifically how I can help you. And that reframed my mind.
31:08
I don't know what it was about like hearing her say that, but
31:12
it made me realize that you can be specific in your request to
31:15
people. Your friends are in your life
31:17
for a reason. And so you can ask them.
31:20
Like, for example, would you mind popping into Tesco for me
31:24
and getting me like ingredients for dinner this evening?
31:27
Or would you mind coming to cook for me?
31:30
I don't really know what it was, but it just really made me think
31:33
that, okay, this is something that I actually can do.
31:37
And yes, it requires me to be more vulnerable by asking people
31:41
to do things that I quote, UN quote, should be able to do for
31:45
myself. But if somebody is offering to
31:48
help me in a specific capacity, then I would be, it would be
31:52
silly of me not to take that opportunity.
31:55
But also I did a lot of like reading around that time and I
31:59
read some books about grief. So there's a book that CS Lewis
32:02
writes about grief and I think he lost his wife when he wrote
32:07
that book. I can't remember exactly what
32:10
the book is called, though the word little is somewhere in the
32:14
title anyways. But I remember within that book,
32:16
he describes his experience of grief.
32:19
And he describes how you're angry when people ask you how
32:22
you are and you are angry when people don't ask you.
32:26
And I just felt understood by the things that he was saying
32:31
and describing because especially being a young person
32:34
losing a parent, most of my friends have never lost like a
32:38
parent or else they haven't experienced loss because I mean,
32:42
when you're in your 20s, it's not a common thing that people
32:46
would experience, at least in this side of the world.
32:49
And so I felt very alone. And I turned to things like
32:53
books, I turned to YouTube videos, I turned to things
32:56
online like, you know, the five stages of grief.
32:59
I was looking for help in as many places as possible, which
33:02
is why I try my best now to be open to speaking about it when
33:06
people are also going through the same.
33:09
Because I know how it felt like in looking for that sense of am
33:12
I the only one who's feeling the the way I am right now and not
33:15
being able to find those sources?
33:18
So I'm sure that part of the reading that I did encouraged me
33:22
to lean on people around me as well, because I think that it
33:27
would have been a much more difficult journey if I hadn't
33:32
sought that advice or that counsel from, albeit strangers,
33:36
but people who were able to help.
33:38
I love how you were able to seek out those pieces of information
33:42
yourself. And I guess part of the healing
33:44
journey is also the act of looking for things resources
33:48
that can help you get out of a certain mindset.
33:51
And I so as you mentioned how you're now openly sharing that
33:54
in order to help other people, I want to ask you a bit more about
33:58
your nonprofit achieve with a go go.
34:01
You have over 400,000 people in your community.
34:05
What gives you the motivation to run that alongside your very
34:09
demanding schedule as a full time medical student?
34:13
Honestly, I think I've always been somebody who's driven by
34:17
social justice, by quality, and by seeing everybody on the same
34:23
level playing field. When I was like 16 years old, I
34:26
remember when the Syrian refugee crisis was happening, I
34:30
approached teachers in my school and I was like, I want us to do
34:34
a refugee awareness day. Because these people, their
34:38
voices need to be heard. Their stories need to be put to
34:40
the forefront. And I have always had that
34:43
within me, that sense of wanting to amplify voices that are
34:47
otherwise not really listened to in society.
34:50
Of course, medicine is a huge way of being able to do that,
34:54
but for some reason I saw it as I, I, I could see that wherever,
35:00
whatever field I'd be able to quote UN quote activate that
35:03
side of myself in, it would be outside of medicine.
35:06
Or at least it would be alongside medicine because I'm
35:08
also interested in HealthEquity, extremely interested in it, but
35:12
I knew that not it might be in another area.
35:15
So it's funny, when I started posting online and growing my
35:19
audience, one of the things I started noticing was that people
35:22
would DM me and they would say, I love your story.
35:27
I'm really, really inspired to work harder now or to not give
35:30
up on my dream, but I feel like I don't have what it takes.
35:35
And I kept hearing that narrative over and over and over
35:39
of people who clearly wanted more for themselves, but they
35:42
didn't think they were intelligent enough.
35:44
They didn't think they were smart enough.
35:46
They felt hindered or held back by the circumstances in life
35:51
that they were in. And it really started to bother
35:53
me because I started to think about the fact that these are
35:57
people who have such bright potential and such great futures
36:01
ahead of them. And if they choose to believe
36:04
these narratives, they're never going to apply themselves and
36:07
therefore they're never going to achieve the things they want.
36:09
It almost becomes this self fulfilling prophecy.
36:13
That's when I decided that I wanted to be proactive about
36:15
doing something about it and forming some sort of structure
36:19
where we're able to address that.
36:21
And so that's kind of where Achieve with Al Gogol was born,
36:24
where I decided that I wanted to give people the tools in terms
36:29
of education. Because I think people that come
36:31
from backgrounds that are not as privileged, they don't know a
36:34
lot of the things that are needed to strive in the
36:37
workplace or to strive in education because these things
36:41
are just not automatically passed down.
36:43
For example, if you have parents who are immigrants, when they
36:46
came to the country, they probably weren't thinking about
36:49
how do we like thrive in the workplace and become C-Suite
36:54
level. No, they were thinking of
36:56
survival. They were thinking, how do we
36:58
provide food on the table for like, for our children?
37:01
And so a lot of people who come from whether it's backgrounds
37:04
like immigrant backgrounds, crowns, or else maybe they come
37:07
from a sector of society that is just underserved in one way or
37:11
another. They don't know a lot of things
37:13
that people who do come from more privileged backgrounds
37:16
know. And I wanted to share the
37:17
information that I myself have learned over time.
37:20
I don't come from a super privileged background, but I
37:22
think that through the experiences that I've had, for
37:25
example, my experience with failure, because I learned so
37:28
much through that experience, I've just picked up different
37:31
lessons along the way and I wanted to share it with people.
37:35
But I also wanted to connect young people with others who
37:39
have experienced success but come from relatable backgrounds.
37:43
And So what we do as an organization is our main.
37:47
Our main goal is to help students believe in themselves
37:50
and excel in education and students as well as young
37:53
professionals. And what we do is we hold
37:56
regular, like at least on a monthly basis, sessions where we
38:00
are teaching people things that they might need to know.
38:03
For example, skills like how to communicate in an effective
38:07
manner, how to study in a way that will ensure that you retain
38:11
the information that you're reading, how to believe in
38:15
yourself when something goes wrong.
38:18
It's pretty much informal education that we do.
38:21
We get sometimes guest speakers to come in and share their
38:24
experiences or share their expertise or their knowledge.
38:28
And we try to inspire people to know that, OK, if that person
38:32
could do it and I can relate to an element of that person, then
38:36
surely that means that I can do it too.
38:38
But the interesting thing that's come from it is also we're
38:42
building a a strong community of young people who want more for
38:46
themselves and are seeking connection with other young
38:50
people who also want the same for themselves.
38:53
And that's something that I actually only realized by
38:55
starting the organization and running our events and asking
38:58
for feedback. And people were like one of my
39:00
favorite things about attending the event, whether it was an
39:03
online one or an in person one, was the community that I have
39:07
just been connected to. People have made friends with
39:10
each other. People have formed a network
39:12
that they might not otherwise have had access to.
39:16
We had an event actually just on Monday, so like 3 or 4 days ago
39:19
at the German Embassy here in Ireland.
39:21
So we did a collaboration with them and one of the members of
39:25
our organization came up to me and she said I attended the goal
39:29
setting dinner that you guys held in December.
39:32
And one of the girls that I met at the dinner, she decided to
39:36
help me out because I told her that I was going to start a book
39:39
club. And so she offered to design A
39:42
logo for me for free and to help me develop, I know, for free.
39:47
And I was like, I was so touched by that because these are two
39:50
strangers who would not be connected.
39:52
And all of a sudden they're helping each other achieve their
39:55
goals and accomplish the things that they really want for
39:58
themselves. And so we're really trying to
40:01
build that sense of success isn't something that you do
40:04
alone. It's what you do with people
40:06
around you. And it's something that you do
40:08
by learning from people who've already gone ahead of you.
40:12
And So what we're doing now is we are pretty much trying to
40:15
increase our membership. We're trying to encourage young
40:18
people who want more for themselves and want to be
40:21
connected to a community to join us and to plug into the things
40:25
we're doing. Because at the end of the day,
40:28
education is, is it's power. Knowledge is freedom.
40:32
So the more you know, the more you're able to thrive.
40:35
And my passion is truly to equal this playing field.
40:39
I'm a huge believer in educational equity.
40:42
I think it's unfortunate that certain groups in society really
40:46
don't have access to things that other groups are almost born
40:49
with. And I think that education is is
40:52
1 area where it's just not acceptable for that inequity to
40:55
exist. I think that for a certainty
40:59
when it comes to the ability to learn, because it increases your
41:02
earning potential, it increases the respect that people in
41:06
society have for you. It's pretty much the key to
41:09
everything. And so I just want to see a
41:11
world where people know as much as they need to know and are
41:16
able to have greater prospects for their future as a result of
41:19
that. I absolutely agree with that
41:22
because education just really opens up the surface area of
41:28
potential. But a person could have and it
41:30
sounds like you have a very active community as well and
41:34
that you have lovely built over the past few years.
41:36
I'll go go. What have you learned about
41:38
yourself over the course of creating Achieve with a Go Go?
41:43
Oh, what have I learned about myself since creating this?
41:50
This is a great question. Going to think about this now.
41:53
Interestingly, in the course of creating achieve with a go go, I
41:56
have learned about my weaknesses.
41:59
I think being somebody who was very hyper independent and has
42:04
been that way for most of my life, you sometimes fool
42:07
yourself into thinking you can do everything and you can't
42:11
because I've been so used to being the person who is able to.
42:15
Like, I think this is a problem sometimes.
42:17
If you're a quote UN quote all rounder type of person, you have
42:20
a lot of different skills. You don't realize that just
42:24
because you can do a lot doesn't mean you're the best person to
42:26
do those respective things. Can relate to that for sure.
42:35
And so I think I've really learned that, yeah, I can't do
42:39
everything well. And it's in fact important to
42:43
look for people to join you as a team who are better than you at
42:47
the things that you want to do, because then it helps things
42:50
grow in a much more efficient way and in a much more fluid
42:54
way. Like, for example, I would be
42:57
lying if I said I was good at the admin sort of like side of
43:00
things. I'm, I was slow at responding to
43:02
emails, for example. I'm not really good at Excel.
43:06
I, I hate Excel. I can't use it.
43:11
If I was the one doing all of those things, then it, it just
43:15
wouldn't end up being good for the organization and all of
43:19
these things. Like if I, I think the slower
43:21
you are to admit to your shortcomings and the more it
43:26
affects your business and the more it negatively affects your
43:29
business is what I really mean. The pride that we can sometimes
43:33
have as people who are leading something, it can be to our own
43:36
downfall. I just think that when you're
43:38
building something that is beyond yourself and is something
43:42
that should be benefiting people and benefiting society at large,
43:46
it is extremely important to be humble in that regard.
43:49
And it's so important to just be able to say somebody else might
43:53
be better fit for this. And I'm going to let them
43:56
because in fact, I can learn from somebody who's doing better
44:00
than me. And then perhaps, you know,
44:02
maybe I would be able to improve my skills.
44:04
And this were another. So it's really taught me the
44:06
importance of teamwork and in relinquishing that sense of
44:11
control because, yeah, control, it sometimes can feel like
44:15
something that's. So it's great.
44:17
Like, yeah, I know everything that's going on, but it can
44:19
catch up to you very quickly. And I think if you want to build
44:22
anything of scale, you need to learn how to let go of it.
44:27
I think it really is such a testament to self growth, isn't
44:30
it, to realize for yourself, and I so admit to yourself, what you
44:35
should be doing and what you should be focusing on rather
44:38
than just kind of almost blindly doing everything just because
44:41
you can. I think that's a very strategic
44:44
move in terms of the mindset shift.
44:46
And I think generally that's a sign of someone really, really
44:49
kind of growing and certainly into adulthood.
44:52
So I love that you were able to share that with me ago.
44:55
I also did want to ask you because you've referred to your
44:57
faith quite a few Times Now, and I actually read A blog where you
45:01
wrote a few years ago about losing your dad and how you
45:03
actually struggled Recon signing with your faith in the period
45:07
afterwards. Would you be able to share a bit
45:09
more about how you're still able to stay true and believe in your
45:12
faith even after losing someone so dear and also so close to
45:16
you? Yes, wow, beautiful question and
45:20
I guess to give people context who didn't read that blog post
45:23
of mine, after losing my dad, I went through a pretty rocky
45:27
journey on my face. I had a lot of questions to to
45:32
God and I didn't really understand why things had to
45:35
happen in the way that they did. I was somebody that really
45:38
believed that, you know, God was going to heal him and that he
45:42
would be fine because I knew he was sick.
45:44
But I just believed that he would end up being OK because
45:49
essentially my dad had a condition that when he was first
45:51
diagnosed from it or with that condition, I searched the
45:56
expected life expectancy and it was somewhere between 3:00 to
45:59
five years. That's what they said.
46:01
So what's the five year mark had passed?
46:04
I was convinced that he was going to just jump into the
46:08
other bracket because certain websites pretty much said on
46:11
average it's three to five years, but some people can live
46:15
an extra 15 to 20 years. And so because he had missed
46:19
that five year, he had jumped past the five year mark.
46:22
I was like, great, that means he's in the 15 to 20 year
46:25
bracket. And that's maybe that's on me
46:28
for not understanding like how averages and stuff work.
46:31
But I had hope. That was essentially what made
46:34
me believe that I had a lot of hope that he was going to end up
46:37
being OK. When things started going
46:41
downwards, it really took me aback because I've always known
46:44
my dad to be a resilient person. When I was growing up, I had
46:48
never seen him sick as and I had not so much as seen him have a
46:51
cold. So suddenly seeing him be
46:54
diagnosed with a condition that is like pretty much terminal
46:58
he's, it's not going to improve. It was extremely hard for me to
47:03
reckon with. And so I had no choice really
47:06
but to turn to my faith in Jesus and to say, OK, I can't do
47:11
anything about this situation. And I was really young at the
47:14
time as well. I was like 15 when he was
47:16
diagnosed. So I was really like, OK, God,
47:19
you're gonna have to do something here because I, I
47:22
clearly can't do anything myself.
47:25
And so that's why when he ended up passing, it was hard for me.
47:29
And I'll share something personal that I haven't actually
47:32
shared online before ever. But basically the week before my
47:36
dad passed away, I had a dream. And in that dream, it was like
47:40
such a, such a bizarre dream for me because it, I've never had
47:44
any dream like that before in my life.
47:46
Everything was pretty much white in the dream.
47:50
My dad had come back from Nigeria to Ireland because he
47:54
was in Nigeria at the time when he died.
47:57
He had come back from Nigeria to Ireland in the dream.
47:59
And he pretty much walks up to me and it was me, my mum and my
48:04
sister there. And he sits beside this wall.
48:08
And as he's sitting beside this wall, nobody says anything in
48:11
the dream. It's just this, it's just a
48:13
strange sense of, I don't even know.
48:15
But he sits beside this wall and we sit down beside him.
48:18
And as we're sitting there, I start seeing thank yous coming
48:22
out of my dad, as in, like written thank yous.
48:26
It's like thank you and for this role in my life that you played,
48:30
Thank you to this person for doing this.
48:32
It's that she like 1,000,000 thank yous just started leaving
48:35
him. And I was reading all of them as
48:38
they were kind of going out. And I remember waking up that
48:42
morning because I am somebody that believes that.
48:45
I know everybody has different beliefs, but I am somebody that
48:47
believes that sometimes God speaks to us in dreams.
48:50
And so I remember I had a strong feeling that dream didn't come
48:55
from myself. There was just a strange aura
48:58
around it that didn't seem like something just kind of
49:01
coincidental. And I felt it so strongly that I
49:04
was really kind of afraid as to what the dream was trying to
49:08
tell me. The weirder thing was that I
49:10
woke up with this strong sense of peace after dreaming that,
49:14
and I was actually very angry at the peace that I felt because I
49:18
didn't understand why I should feel peace after a dream like
49:21
that. I remember kind of being like to
49:23
God, I don't understand why you would give me a dream like that
49:26
and follow it by peace because to me that almost seemed like
49:29
confirmation that the dream was coming from God because that
49:33
sense of peace was coming from it.
49:35
And so I remember frantically calling my dad the next day and
49:39
he didn't pick up. And I was panicking because I
49:41
thought the dream was to tell me he's died.
49:44
Around the time my dad was passing, I started getting this
49:47
weird inkling that something terrible would happen.
49:50
So I used to check his WhatsApp and I would be reassured when
49:53
I'd see, oh, last online, you know, a couple hours ago.
49:57
And so even though he didn't pick up, I saw that he was last
49:59
online a while ago. I was OK.
50:01
So he's fine, He's still alive. And then two days later, he
50:04
calls me back and we have a conversation.
50:07
And that actually ended up being our last conversation.
50:11
And a couple days after, so a week after I had that dream, he
50:16
passed away. And I remember even when I had
50:19
that dreams, one of the things that I wrote down, because
50:22
sometimes I write down like interesting dreams like that
50:24
that I would have, I wrote down felt like a goodbye.
50:28
And I don't know why that that happened to be the case.
50:31
And so, yeah, on the 19th of November, he passes.
50:35
And I was in shock and in disbelief.
50:39
I was really, really obviously heartbroken that what I felt was
50:44
coming had now actually happened.
50:47
It's, it's interesting because, yeah, my relationship with God
50:50
really took a downturn after that.
50:52
I really struggled to trust in him.
50:55
I didn't understand why he would let something like this happen,
50:59
you know, because sometimes it's like, if you have the power to
51:01
do this, why wouldn't you change it?
51:04
Why wouldn't you turn the situation into something better?
51:07
But it's really funny because in that time of feeling intense
51:11
pain and anger and sorrow, after a while, I decided to pretty
51:17
much open up my Bible and I started reading and, and what
51:22
are the things that really stuck out to me was the fact that God
51:27
knows what it's like to lose a loved one too.
51:29
I mean, I, I'm a Christian and so I believe that, you know,
51:32
Jesus Christ died and, and was resurrected and all of these
51:35
things. But I thought about the fact
51:37
that Jesus Christ died and so that means God knows what lost
51:43
feels like. Even historically, it's known
51:45
that Joseph, like his his physical earthly dad, wasn't
51:49
around for his whole life, meaning he passed for Jesus,
51:53
went back. That made me think, OK, Jesus
51:56
understands lost too. And that changed my perspective
52:00
because I was like, I kind of was seeing God in this negative
52:03
light of how can you let me go through this?
52:06
And suddenly I thought, he's gone through it too.
52:09
And so he's not trying to punish me by allowing me to go through
52:12
something like this. And that's when my mindset
52:15
surrounding death really began to change.
52:17
I started seeing it as something that is horrible and painful and
52:21
people don't want to go through. But there is a sense of beauty
52:26
in the finality of life. Like not not to become super
52:30
philosophical or something, but I really have thought about
52:33
this. The fact that, you know, if we
52:37
were going to live forever, we would live in a completely
52:41
different way as to us living now.
52:44
The sense, the fact that we have this quote UN quote deadline,
52:48
this final time here on earth, the fact that's creeping up on
52:52
all of us, it informs the way we choose to live our lives every
52:56
single day. It's what helps us to be more
52:58
present in situation. It's what helps us to show love
53:02
to people that you know, on our worst days, we might not want to
53:05
show love to the knowledge, even if it's subconscious of death
53:09
being something that can affect us or our loved ones.
53:12
It actually helps us to be the best sort of human beings that
53:15
we can be. And I didn't realize any of this
53:18
until my dad had passed. And that's when I kind of saw it
53:22
as, OK, yes, I don't think death was something that God
53:24
originally wanted for human beings, but I think he's turned
53:29
it into something that can be a beautiful thing.
53:32
Although in the moment it never feels that way.
53:34
But in retrospect, you look back and it's funny what I would, I
53:38
love for my dad to be back 1000%, but would I be the person
53:42
I am today if he was? No, I, I absolutely wouldn't.
53:47
It, it shaped me into who I am. And I'm so grateful that my
53:53
faith was able to help me get to that, that point of this is
53:57
actually all right. And there's so many people who
53:59
have experienced this. And again, I think that just
54:03
realizing that God does love us and he is, he does want the best
54:08
for us and he's not out to get us.
54:11
That helped me to reconcile with my faith.
54:13
And so slowly I started, you know, attending church groups or
54:16
like connecting with other people who had a stronger faith
54:19
to me at that time. And they really helped me to
54:22
uplift my spirit. And yeah, thankfully things are
54:25
pretty smooth sailing now. It's always up and down, but I
54:28
think that that's natural with anything that means a lot to
54:31
you. No, for sure, I think grief
54:33
comes in waves. And thank you so much for
54:35
sharing your own personal revelation.
54:37
Whilst you were talking, I was actually thinking, gosh, it's so
54:40
true. I think the fact as humans we
54:42
have a limited time on earth and the fact that we know that we
54:46
have that limited time is probably, as you said, what
54:48
makes us more present, but also what makes us really appreciate
54:51
and have this urge to make the most of the out of the time that
54:55
we do have on Earth. I was also thinking a slight
54:59
parallel would be when I speak with new mothers, for example,
55:02
and they always say after they return to work, even though they
55:06
theoretically have less time now because they have to look after
55:09
a child after work, it actually makes them more productive and
55:12
also more effective at work because they know, OK, I have
55:15
this block of time, but I'm at work, I'm going to be whizzing
55:18
through all these things so that when the time comes, I can go
55:21
home and just be fully present and spend time with my child.
55:24
So I think again, it's that concept of knowing, as you were
55:27
saying, knowing that we have this block of time and then
55:30
that's what triggers and motivates individuals to, you
55:34
know, do the best that they can and try to find purpose and also
55:38
act on that purpose that they have found in their life.
55:40
So absolutely loved that. And then please never apologize
55:43
for being too philosophical. I feel like in this day and age,
55:46
we need more of that because it's good reflection of some
55:49
from each individual and every individual, such as yourself and
55:52
myself. We've had a complete different
55:54
set of experiences growing up that's so unique to us.
55:57
And yes, I was going to make us have our own views and
56:01
reflections on the world. And that's part of the really
56:04
beautiful tapestry. Oh, go, go.
56:06
I don't want to end that. I have taken up enough of your
56:09
time on this eve after your exam.
56:11
But before I let you, let me ask you one final question, which is
56:16
what do you think is one thing that will allow more people to
56:19
have better mental health? One thing that I think would
56:23
benefit people in terms of their mental health is actually like
56:28
#1 OK, maybe I'll cheat and say, 2, Yep #1 leading on people
56:34
around you, as I said earlier, not being afraid that you're a
56:38
burden to the people who are in your life.
56:40
They're in your life for a reason.
56:42
And so we should always feel like we can rely on those who
56:45
love us. But also movement.
56:48
I really believe in physical movement and an exercise and it
56:53
doesn't have to be high intensity, it doesn't have to be
56:55
high rocks. You can go on a walk and these
56:58
these things have a positive effect on our site.
57:01
I think sometimes when things sound too simplistic, we're very
57:04
quick to dismiss them. But I can say for a fact that
57:08
incorporating physical movement into my daily routine has
57:12
transformed my mental health. And it's not even just about,
57:16
oh, saying I exercise for the sake of, of being able to say
57:19
that, but the chemicals that the body releases as a result of
57:23
doing those things really is beneficial for our mental
57:26
health. So I would definitely say
57:28
leaning on people and physically moving as often as possible.
57:32
Absolutely agree, I laughed earlier because you mentioned
57:34
Hyrox and and I was just thinking back to the one time
57:37
that I did do it, it was actually OK, but I much prefer
57:40
going for work. Yeah, I think I haven't given up
57:45
by high rocks yet. One day.
57:47
One day for sure. Well ago.
57:48
It was such a pleasure to have you on the Low to Grow podcast.
57:51
Thank you for sharing your time. Thank you so much for having me,
57:54
it's been a pleasure. Thank you for listening you
57:57
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