Latest / On Deathcare / The New Guard: Shelby Ogozaly on Youth and Leadership in Funeral Service

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The New Guard: Shelby Ogozaly on Youth and Leadership in Funeral Service · On Deathcare

0:04
SPEAKER_01: I am Tony Russo from OnDeathCare,
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SPEAKER_01: and this is On The Clock,
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SPEAKER_01: where we speak to death care professionals about who they are,
0:12
SPEAKER_01: why they do what they do,
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SPEAKER_01: and what they see for the future of funeral service.
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SPEAKER_01: Today, I have at-large candidate Shelby Ogala.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Ogazali.
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Today,
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I have at-large candidate Shelby Ogazali,
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who is running for the NFDA at-large candidate.
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SPEAKER_01: So we're going to talk to her and let's get started with,
0:35
SPEAKER_01: this is,
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SPEAKER_01: you're the second candidate I've interviewed.
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SPEAKER_01: This is the youngest crop of candidates I think I've ever seen.
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SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed that?
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SPEAKER_01: Is that
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SPEAKER_00: I definitely have.
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SPEAKER_00: I noticed in the past that it has been older individuals,
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SPEAKER_00: and I've noticed that this time the runners are younger.
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SPEAKER_01: I think it's very cool.
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SPEAKER_01: So last year was the first time that there was a woman who moved into,
1:04
SPEAKER_01: like,
1:04
SPEAKER_01: the executive board level.
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SPEAKER_01: And now this year there are two of the four people running now.
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SPEAKER_01: for the at-large are not just women, but also younger-ish women.
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SPEAKER_01: You decided not to wait your whole career before getting involved.
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SPEAKER_01: So I guess that's the first question.
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SPEAKER_01: Why didn't you wait your whole career before getting involved?
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So I've had the opportunity to serve at the local levels
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already as the youngest
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SPEAKER_00: female president of my Allegheny County Funeral Directors Association.
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I decided not to wait my entire career because I believe that
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even though I'm a
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SPEAKER_00: younger individual,
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SPEAKER_00: I have a lot to bring to the table.
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SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to funeral service,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm not looking to replace the traditions from our predecessors.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm just looking to make things move forward more progressively.
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And so you went to PIMS,
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as we've discussed,
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and you've been at it for six years now.
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SPEAKER_01: Yes.
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SPEAKER_01: What were some of the
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SPEAKER_01: difficulties in coming into a new,
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because you've also just changed funeral homes in the last
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couple of years.
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What are some of the integration issues that you discovered
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that maybe you weren't
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SPEAKER_01: ready for or you didn't know about coming out of PIMS?
2:12
So some of the issues coming out of PIMS that I didn't
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recognize is sometimes for
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SPEAKER_00: younger individuals,
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SPEAKER_00: it's hard to get involved with your local funeral communities.
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And I was fortunate enough to be able to step into a leadership
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role early on in my
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career because I was able to network with different people
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within my local
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SPEAKER_00: association.
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I was able to serve early on,
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like I said,
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as the youngest female president.
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SPEAKER_00: And coming out of school, I didn't expect any of that to happen.
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SPEAKER_00: And I didn't expect to go into any type of leadership role.
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SPEAKER_00: I was about three years licensed at the time when I became president.
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SPEAKER_00: So I didn't expect to get involved that quickly.
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SPEAKER_00: But I tell younger students coming out of school to get involved,
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SPEAKER_00: be a part of your local associations,
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because those are going to be the people who are going to be
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your support network
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SPEAKER_00: and who you're going to
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be along with in your community so now coming out of school you
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probably don't get
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like the best shifts or anything and so finding that finding
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the time to do that
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has got to be you know problem number one but finding the will
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to do that like what
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made you decide i'm going to get involved now rather than wait
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until i have the
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SPEAKER_01: time and years under my belt
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SPEAKER_00: A lot of us younger individuals have a lot of important things to say.
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SPEAKER_00: We come out with different perspectives than the older generation.
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SPEAKER_00: So in that aspect,
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SPEAKER_00: I feel that coming out of that,
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I was able to just move forward and progress just because of
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getting involved.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm asking the wrong question the wrong way then.
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SPEAKER_01: But one day you were like,
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I don't know anything about being involved in running the
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Allegheny Directors
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SPEAKER_01: Association.
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And the next day I'm like,
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I'm going to get involved and I'm going to run it.
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SPEAKER_01: So take me through that thought process.
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SPEAKER_00: So the process of why I wanted to run for the at-large representative.
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SPEAKER_00: So getting to serve at the local level...
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I'm running because funeral professionals deserve a strong
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forward-thinking voice at our table.
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SPEAKER_00: So our work is demanding, emotional, and deeply important.
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SPEAKER_00: Yet the people doing it don't always feel supported or represented.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm stepping forward to advocate for funeral directors,
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SPEAKER_00: strengthen our profession,
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SPEAKER_00: and help shape its future.
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SPEAKER_00: I believe in leadership that listens,
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SPEAKER_00: takes action,
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and isn't afraid to push our profession in a direction that
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moves it forward.
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SPEAKER_00: Funeral service has given me purpose,
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and now I'm ready to give back by serving the people who serve
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families every
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SPEAKER_00: single day.
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SPEAKER_01: That's an excellent way to put it.
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SPEAKER_01: What is particularly interesting is that there is maybe more engagement.
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SPEAKER_01: How engaged were you?
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SPEAKER_01: Like,
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SPEAKER_01: for instance,
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have you always voted in the NFDA elections or is that
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something that you started
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SPEAKER_01: doing after you'd been at it a couple of years?
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Like how long did it take for you to start looking at the
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National Association?
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So it took me about six years to start looking at the National
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Funeral Directors Association.
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SPEAKER_00: So basically my entire career.
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In 2025,
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I had the opportunity to take part in the program Meet the
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Mentors program.
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And along the way,
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I got to meet funeral directors who are part of the NFDA.
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SPEAKER_00: And they were very encouraging and having talks with them that they said,
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SPEAKER_00: I think you should move forward with running and trying this out.
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SPEAKER_01: So at the Meet the Mentors program, they're like, yep, go for it.
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SPEAKER_01: Was there anybody particular?
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SPEAKER_01: Do you not want to say anybody for fear of forgetting someone?
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SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it was a lot of people.
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SPEAKER_00: They like younger perspective,
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SPEAKER_00: I've noticed,
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SPEAKER_00: just because it's been for a while the older perspective.
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SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
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SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
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SPEAKER_00: nothing wrong with that,
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SPEAKER_00: because like I said,
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SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to step on my predecessor's feet.
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I just want to be able to lead with a younger perspective and
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move forward.
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SPEAKER_00: Because like I said,
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SPEAKER_00: we do have a lot of things to say as younger individuals.
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SPEAKER_00: So moving forward, that would help.
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SPEAKER_00: And being involved at different capacities with funeral service,
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I do believe that I can move us forward in the right direction
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of being able to
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SPEAKER_00: represent us funeral directors.
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And so one of the things that you said that you were interested
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in is reimagining
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SPEAKER_01: or helping people find ways to reimagine how to
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SPEAKER_01: help families choose more memorialization with cremation.
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SPEAKER_01: And you said this was something that you noticed at your new place.
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So can you kind of take us through the issues that you see
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around cremation?
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SPEAKER_00: Cremation is definitely, I know at this point, over half.
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A lot of the statistics that I have been reading in funeral
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service is by 2038,
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SPEAKER_00: I was on a continuing education class the other day with the NFDA.
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SPEAKER_00: And the presenter said that by 2038, the
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SPEAKER_00: Cremation rate is going to be over 78%, which says way more than half.
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So the biggest thing that I learned this year coming out of the
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convention is...
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We need to start focusing on moving back into the traditional
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ways of funeral service.
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I know it's never going to be the same because people are
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moving away from organized religion.
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SPEAKER_00: They're moving away from standard practices.
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SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to cremation,
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a misconception is a lot of the families think that just
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because your loved one's
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SPEAKER_00: being cremated,
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SPEAKER_00: We can't have a service.
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SPEAKER_00: We can't have any type of memorialization.
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SPEAKER_00: That is not true.
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SPEAKER_00: You can have a visitation.
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SPEAKER_00: You can go to church.
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SPEAKER_00: You can have a personalized services.
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I know,
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for instance,
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at my funeral home,
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we offer personalized memorial photos,
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videos.
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So there's a ton of ways that you can individualize someone's
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service based on cremation.
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SPEAKER_00: And we can move forward that way.
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SPEAKER_01: So this week I had written a story about downsizing funeral homes.
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So increasingly larger funeral homes are selling the property
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and moving to smaller
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SPEAKER_01: buildings to have funeral homes there.
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And in my research for that,
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I looked and in the UK,
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they crossed 60% cremation in the 1960s.
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SPEAKER_01: And so now today our funeral home
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as we think of it,
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a funeral parlor type place,
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is pretty much nonexistent.
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And it's really a lot of places that are essentially
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storefronts or small standalone buildings.
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SPEAKER_01: And they've, in that way, been able to make cremation work for them.
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SPEAKER_01: And I wonder, have you seen anything like that in your experience?
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SPEAKER_01: Is that something that is on your radar?
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SPEAKER_00: So it hasn't quite come to Pittsburgh yet.
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there's um i'm sorry of course it has um with any of like the
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storefronts right um
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but i have noticed a lot of downsizing or owners just selling
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the property because
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they got more for the property over the business so i'm
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definitely seeing that
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SPEAKER_00: aspect um so we don't
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SPEAKER_00: We're moving in,
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SPEAKER_00: I would say,
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SPEAKER_00: a different direction because people here are downsizing,
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SPEAKER_00: like you mentioned,
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SPEAKER_00: or they're just selling off the business altogether.
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And a lot of things that I've noticed is the people who are
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selling off don't have
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SPEAKER_00: any type of contingency plan or succession plan.
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SPEAKER_01: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: They often don't have any of that.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: Going through that process,
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SPEAKER_00: I've seen a bunch of funeral homes in my area close and they had no plan.
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SPEAKER_00: So they kind of just, I would say, they winged it.
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SPEAKER_01: Right.
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SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't a very, very successful process, let's just say.
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SPEAKER_00: And so they were just stuck.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And you got a,
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SPEAKER_01: in Pittsburgh specifically,
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SPEAKER_01: there were like two huge scandals a couple of years ago.
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SPEAKER_01: And I speculated, there's no evidence.
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SPEAKER_01: I speculated that it was that very reason.
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SPEAKER_01: These weren't bad actors.
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This was a guy who just got too old and was like,
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I can't,
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I can't run my business.
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SPEAKER_01: I can't sell my business and just tread, treaded water till he sank.
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SPEAKER_01: And
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SPEAKER_01: increasingly that is, that is a worry.
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SPEAKER_01: But again,
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SPEAKER_01: for a younger person like you,
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SPEAKER_01: there is also the opportunity of maybe starting in a,
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SPEAKER_01: in a smaller place,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: with,
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SPEAKER_01: with,
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SPEAKER_01: with a storefront and,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: some,
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SPEAKER_01: some processing equipment back down the,
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SPEAKER_01: and,
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SPEAKER_01: and the UK,
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a lot of the places that have processing rooms kind of have
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them in the back.
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SPEAKER_01: But I think in the U S we're going to see more of these care centers, um,
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: For embalming as that becomes.
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SPEAKER_01: As a matter of fact,
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you chose your current position because you'd get to still do
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embalming and you
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SPEAKER_01: weren't able even to do embalming at your last place.
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SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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And so as someone who's kind of straddling this move toward
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cremation and then also
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SPEAKER_01: interested in the...
12:00
embalming and being able to serve families in that way how do
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you how do you
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balance that out like how do you pitch embalming and also pitch
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cremation with all
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the works let's call it um so it basically for me it depends on
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the family and when
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you meet with a family you're able to read what they want right
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away um we talk
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about the benefits of what embalming could do um as we know
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embalming is the
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SPEAKER_00: temporary preservations
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So what that does is I explain that in a way to families that
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if you want to have a
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SPEAKER_00: viewing,
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SPEAKER_00: of course,
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SPEAKER_00: it's never required by law.
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SPEAKER_00: And we do have to say that under the Federal Trade Commission.
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SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes when we're having a public visitation,
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SPEAKER_00: we do have to do that to protect the public as well.
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SPEAKER_00: But I also explain that this is
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the value of viewing so i explain the value to them and what
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what viewing that like
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what we can do with viewing and with embalming in that aspect
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so the value of it
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and how they're able to see their left their loved one for the
13:10
very last time and
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how have you been able to affect the cremation approach at this
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because you're a
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first generation funeral home funeral home uh funeral director
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which i didn't
13:19
SPEAKER_01: mention and i'm sorry
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SPEAKER_01: And so you're working for someone who's not related to you.
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SPEAKER_01: And how do you make the pitch for we have to do better with cremation?
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SPEAKER_01: And how are you making yourself a part of that?
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SPEAKER_00: So my boss,
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I would have to say that he is very progressive and he likes to
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move forward and
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SPEAKER_00: always changes different things.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: So we're offering different things.
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SPEAKER_00: He always says that
13:43
SPEAKER_00: You we can't if we don't explain something and we don't offer it,
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SPEAKER_00: how can we how can we effectively explain it?
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SPEAKER_00: So.
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SPEAKER_00: If you don't offer something, families are not going to know.
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So when it comes to meeting with families,
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I explain all of their options and.
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I just have a general conversation with the families who I meet
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with and ask them,
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SPEAKER_00: what do they want?
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And oftentimes,
14:12
when I explain the option that they can have a viewing,
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they can go to church.
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SPEAKER_00: We can go to any place of worship.
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SPEAKER_00: I can do things here, here, there.
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They often go from the moving from the idea of the direct
14:27
cremation to,
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oh,
14:30
hey,
14:30
we can do that.
14:31
let's do that i didn't even know that was an option and when i
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explain it to them
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they usually like to go forward with that because there's all
14:40
those different
14:41
options of personalization so example like i said video dvds we
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can set up tvs we
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SPEAKER_00: have tvs in our funeral home so we can personalize everything that way um
14:54
SPEAKER_00: We have a million different options of ways that we can personalize.
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SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to serving families,
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SPEAKER_00: if you don't offer them the option,
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SPEAKER_00: they're never going to know.
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SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what we need to do as funeral directors.
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SPEAKER_00: Give family the options, talk about it, and have an honest conversation.
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SPEAKER_01: And so talking now about...
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SPEAKER_01: A successful let's let's look at what a successful campaign looks like.
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What do you see as your responsibilities and what are you
15:24
looking forward to as an
15:27
SPEAKER_01: active member of the NFDA board?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: So I want to drive the membership forward.
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So what I would do is I need to keep my opinions out and I need
15:39
to listen to what
15:41
SPEAKER_00: the members are.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: want from me.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: So what I want to do is I want to go around,
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SPEAKER_00: ask the membership,
15:47
what would they like to see from the National Funeral Directors
15:50
Association?
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SPEAKER_00: So whether it be, what do you want to see education wise?
15:55
What do you want to see from an owner's perspective,
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a non-owner's perspective?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to see from us?
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SPEAKER_00: And I want to talk to the membership.
16:04
And the whole idea of being an at-large representative is to be
16:07
able to go around
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SPEAKER_00: to the states and go to their conventions and talk to them
16:12
So I want to talk to the different members and advocate for the
16:16
things that they
16:17
SPEAKER_00: want so that we can have a driving forward membership.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: We touched on your youth and your gender in the beginning,
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SPEAKER_01: but I've got to say,
16:28
SPEAKER_01: like,
16:29
SPEAKER_01: last year when I did this story,
16:31
SPEAKER_01: I was like,
16:32
SPEAKER_01: you know,
16:33
SPEAKER_01: this doesn't look like a very,
16:36
SPEAKER_01: from the outside,
16:37
it doesn't seem like a very young person or woman person
16:42
friendly organization
16:44
SPEAKER_01: historically.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: It was a pointed criticism and it was for a good reason, I think.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: And
16:52
SPEAKER_01: it was like I'm eating my words all of a sudden.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: So what do you think changed in the last, really in the last year?
16:59
SPEAKER_00: In the last year, a lot of women are.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go ahead.
17:04
Women are coming into power,
17:05
especially with the National Funeral Directors Association.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: I love Ellen.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:11
She's a great lady and she's definitely moving and progressing
17:16
women forward.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And I do believe she was,
17:21
SPEAKER_00: the movement for women in power because I looked up to her a lot.
17:26
But I feel overall for the industry,
17:30
women are considered more caring and nurturing.
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SPEAKER_00: I've met a lot of great male funeral directors.
17:37
So I think what's coming is just the women coming into power,
17:44
more movement in that direction.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:46
And if I may,
17:47
caring and nurturing is not taking the reins and running the
17:50
show.
17:50
And I think increasingly women are demonstrating that that's
17:54
not a problem either.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
17:59
Well,
17:59
that is pretty much all I have for you unless you have
18:01
something else for me.
18:03
Is there something I should have asked and didn't or something
18:05
you thought you'd
18:05
SPEAKER_01: get the opportunity to say,
18:07
SPEAKER_01: but I didn't provide it?
18:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so very much for your time and for sharing your story.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me today.