Latest / UK Column Radio / ‘We Do It For The Children’- How To Fight Sexual Grooming In Libraries – With Dan Kleinman

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‘We Do It For The Children’- How To Fight Sexual Grooming In Libraries – With Dan Kleinman · UK Column Radio

0:07
Speaker 1: Hello everyone. This is Diane Rasmus and Macattie with UK column.
0:11
Speaker 1: I am delighted to be joined today by Dan Kleman
0:14
Speaker 1: of Safe Libraries. He is based in New Jersey and
0:17
Speaker 1: the United States, and in my opinion, he's been doing
0:20
Speaker 1: some wonderful work over the last several years trying to
0:23
Speaker 1: make sure that things are safe in libraries for children
0:27
Speaker 1: over in America. And I hope today that he can
0:29
Speaker 1: give us some inspiration to do some similar work that
0:33
Speaker 1: needs to be done just as much over here in
0:35
Speaker 1: the UK as it needs to be done still in America.
0:39
Speaker 1: So Dan, again, thank you, welcome to UK column. I'd
0:42
Speaker 1: like to just hand it over to you a little
0:43
Speaker 1: bit to maybe introduce yourself and give our viewers a
0:46
Speaker 1: little bit of introduction to what you've been doing over
0:48
Speaker 1: the past several years to try to keep children safe.
0:51
Speaker 2: I'm Dan Cleman and I run Safe Libraries, and I
0:56
Speaker 2: also happen to run World Library Association, which is now
0:59
Speaker 2: and growing, and I've been doing this for about twenty
1:03
Speaker 2: five years. It started when my kid went to kindergarten
1:07
Speaker 2: and began to read a book that was completely inappropriate.
1:09
Speaker 2: It brought it to the principle the principle said, it's
1:12
Speaker 2: twice as bad as what you said, and I'm removing
1:14
Speaker 2: it from the library. And that began my journey as
1:18
Speaker 2: to what's going on in schools with books and children,
1:22
Speaker 2: and it just kept going downhill from there, and the
1:26
Speaker 2: things that I have learned over the course of these decades, frankly,
1:29
Speaker 2: have come to basically maybe a head right now because
1:32
Speaker 2: I'm actually being sued at the moment by a librarian
1:37
Speaker 2: for the statements that I make in which I basically
1:41
Speaker 2: respond report on what the librarians are saying, and I
1:45
Speaker 2: pointed out to the public, and that's not favored right now.
1:49
Speaker 2: So who am I right now? I'm I'm not like
1:53
Speaker 2: to buy a lot of librarians in the United States,
1:57
Speaker 2: but only those that are part of the problem that
2:00
Speaker 2: we have with giving inappropriate material to children. Other than that,
2:06
Speaker 2: I'm just the dad, like everybody else. I do this
2:10
Speaker 2: in my spare time, like probably everybody else does who
2:13
Speaker 2: does my kind of thing. And you know, we're up
2:15
Speaker 2: against an organization that's well funded, has offices as donations
2:19
Speaker 2: and the millions of dollars in which they specifically say
2:22
Speaker 2: they're going to help librarians sue parents. Well, now I'm
2:26
Speaker 2: on the receiving end of that, and that's who I am.
2:29
Speaker 2: I'm just dead like everybody else. I've just been at
2:31
Speaker 2: it for twenty five years.
2:33
Speaker 1: That's really amazing. I mean, that's a long time to
2:35
Speaker 1: be working on a cause, and we just see it,
2:37
Speaker 1: unfortunately getting worse. It seems to me that the pressure
2:41
Speaker 1: from these groups that you're talking about and these types
2:45
Speaker 1: of librarians has become more and more over time. And
2:49
Speaker 1: I have to say myself, I've been a qualified librarian
2:52
Speaker 1: since two thousand and one, and having worked as a
2:55
Speaker 1: practicing librarian for several years and then a professor teaching librarians.
3:01
Speaker 1: As someone who never worked directly in children's libraries, I've
3:06
Speaker 1: always worked in university libraries and never had really a
3:10
Speaker 1: desire to work with children's materials or children. Nothing against children.
3:14
Speaker 1: It was just always my dream was to work in
3:16
Speaker 1: universities and work with all of the knowledge and the
3:18
Speaker 1: information available in university setting. This has all come yeah,
3:23
Speaker 1: this has all come to a big surprise to me
3:25
Speaker 1: in the past few years as I've started to look
3:28
Speaker 1: into it, and as a result of me discovering what
3:32
Speaker 1: was going on, I've been canceled from the profession myself,
3:35
Speaker 1: and as someone who loved my profession and still does,
3:38
Speaker 1: it's been very painful for me to have these people
3:42
Speaker 1: kind of pushed out, pushed myself out because I'm here
3:45
Speaker 1: saying I don't think that this is the right thing
3:48
Speaker 1: to do necessarily, and that it should be left up
3:51
Speaker 1: for the parents. So I think it just shows us
3:53
Speaker 1: how pressure filled these groups can be. There aren't very
3:57
Speaker 1: many full professors of librarianship in the world, and I'm
4:00
Speaker 1: one of them, and I'm losing my career in that
4:04
Speaker 1: as we speak, so I'm sort of reshaping myself is
4:07
Speaker 1: in a different direction with UK column and in other
4:09
Speaker 1: ways like that. But I think you know, you've done
4:13
Speaker 1: some research as well into what's funding the organizations, and
4:17
Speaker 1: they think our viewers in particular be interested to hear
4:20
Speaker 1: what you have learned about how the American Library Association
4:23
Speaker 1: is funded, what's actually going behind, what's driving the agenda financially.
4:28
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that a little.
4:29
Speaker 2: Bit, I believe it or not, I'm not an expert
4:31
Speaker 2: on that, but I think the majority of their money,
4:34
Speaker 2: well a lot of their money comes from membership dues.
4:37
Speaker 2: Although the membership numbers have been shrinking. They've even just
4:40
Speaker 2: acknowledged that in a recent message. I forget where I
4:43
Speaker 2: saw that where they're talking about other library associations making
4:47
Speaker 2: a dent, maybe they're referring to World Library Association, but
4:51
Speaker 2: I think the dues is a large portion. But they
4:53
Speaker 2: also get lots of big donations from the Ford Foundation,
4:57
Speaker 2: from the Open Society, from George Soros, one million dollars
5:02
Speaker 2: came in from Jay Z and one million dollars from
5:04
Speaker 2: Robert Kraft who owns the Patriots, and the ALA dedicated
5:08
Speaker 2: that money specifically to suing parents. And so they're also
5:13
Speaker 2: a tax free organization, so they're getting lots of benefits
5:17
Speaker 2: just by being tax free. Yeah, I'm not an expert
5:21
Speaker 2: on where they get their funding. I'm more focused on
5:24
Speaker 2: what they're doing to communities and especially children and even
5:28
Speaker 2: librarians frankly, but that's where it comes from. Lots of
5:33
Speaker 2: donations that they use as they choose, so to speak,
5:37
Speaker 2: and they choose to do it too. Well, what happened
5:42
Speaker 2: to you? You got like pushed out of the at
5:45
Speaker 2: your professional organization, sillop. I believe that's kind of what
5:49
Speaker 2: they that's what they do. This is a standard practice
5:53
Speaker 2: over here. This is why a lot of people who
5:57
Speaker 2: are in favor of these kinds of policies that horn
6:00
Speaker 2: children are outspoken, but the other ones who are not
6:04
Speaker 2: in favor, and there are plenty they know it kind
6:07
Speaker 2: of keeps silent.
6:08
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me as well is the hypocrisy
6:12
Speaker 1: of it all. I don't know so much about this
6:15
Speaker 1: part of it going on what's going on in America
6:17
Speaker 1: right now, but I know, for example, in Scotland where
6:20
Speaker 1: I am, all of these things are in the books.
6:23
Speaker 1: I do want to get into a little bit about
6:25
Speaker 1: some of the books I've covered at someone the news,
6:27
Speaker 1: but I want to hear from you because I know
6:29
Speaker 1: you know quite a bit about that, unfortunately for you.
6:32
Speaker 1: But for example, there's been pressure over here from librarians
6:38
Speaker 1: and booksellers in Scotland to not provide gender critical books
6:42
Speaker 1: in the adult sections, which is where you know. In
6:45
Speaker 1: my opinion, if you're over eighteen, you can read anything
6:48
Speaker 1: that you want, and if you want to read people
6:51
Speaker 1: against the transgender kind of agenda and those things, you
6:57
Speaker 1: should have the right to do that. But there's saying, well,
7:00
Speaker 1: that's offensive to the trans people, and so we can't
7:03
Speaker 1: have gender critical books as we call them, in the
7:05
Speaker 1: adult sections of the bookstores and the libraries and Scotland,
7:08
Speaker 1: but we can put anything that we think we want
7:10
Speaker 1: to put in front of children, and hypocrisy and all
7:13
Speaker 1: of it just is incredible to me. If we're really
7:16
Speaker 1: about fighting censorship, then we should allow people who have
7:20
Speaker 1: the who are of age to decide what they want
7:22
Speaker 1: to read to do it. And I really don't. It's
7:26
Speaker 1: hard to not get past the idea of this sexualization
7:30
Speaker 1: of children and grooming that you talk about. It's hard
7:33
Speaker 1: to really start to see it as anything else.
7:35
Speaker 2: It is hypocritical, but it's not like a hypocrisy thing.
7:39
Speaker 2: It's more like they have an intentional they're making a
7:42
Speaker 2: potential i'm sorry, an effort to politically change things because
7:48
Speaker 2: they believe that librarianship is not neutral and they're there
7:52
Speaker 2: to promote their view of the world, which is not
7:56
Speaker 2: really the view of the world. It's just their view
7:58
Speaker 2: of the world. How they do it is with these
8:01
Speaker 2: kinds of books and the balance of books in school
8:05
Speaker 2: libraries or bookstores as you mentioned, and things like that.
8:09
Speaker 2: That's what's going on here. It's an ideological war that's
8:12
Speaker 2: been going on for a long time, and lots of institutions,
8:15
Speaker 2: not just the you know, the libraries associations.
8:19
Speaker 1: I've had conversations about this with Brian Gerrish, who's one
8:22
Speaker 1: of the he's the founder of UK column and he's
8:26
Speaker 1: on the news with me on Mondays and he's been
8:28
Speaker 1: seeing my reports on libraries. And as Brian has said,
8:32
Speaker 1: libraries are central to knowledge, right to information, to learning
8:37
Speaker 1: about the world, and so it's to him it seems
8:40
Speaker 1: like a logical place where they would start to attack
8:43
Speaker 1: and would have really strong attacks and go in through
8:45
Speaker 1: the librarians and through the organizations, because capturing the libraries
8:50
Speaker 1: means that you've captured the knowledge. And if you don't
8:53
Speaker 1: want the world to have, you know, the right knowledge,
8:56
Speaker 1: whether it's age appropriate or anything else, then you know
9:00
Speaker 1: you've kind of got society right there by attacking the libraries.
9:03
Speaker 1: And I think that's why they're starting there.
9:06
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. That's why, for example, you might have
9:08
Speaker 2: a community, let's say they're mostly people who don't want
9:11
Speaker 2: to harm children, but there are always going to be
9:14
Speaker 2: a few who do, and those people somehow coincidentally get
9:17
Speaker 2: on the library boards or the school boards. That's why
9:21
Speaker 2: you have a mostly fine community, but the people that
9:24
Speaker 2: want to push the inappropriate stuff on kids, they somehow
9:27
Speaker 2: find themselves on the boards. That's why the principal thing
9:30
Speaker 2: that people need to do to reverse this trend is
9:33
Speaker 2: to get on the boards and keep those other kind
9:37
Speaker 2: of people out by taking your own body, running for
9:41
Speaker 2: election or getting selected or whatever it is, and getting
9:45
Speaker 2: yourself a seat on a board. That is the number
9:47
Speaker 2: one way to make change going on. Once you get
9:50
Speaker 2: the board and you're in control, so to speak, then
9:53
Speaker 2: you can remove the policies that are harmful to the children.
9:56
Speaker 1: Just because our British audience might not be familiar with
9:58
Speaker 1: how our our systems work in America, can you maybe
10:02
Speaker 1: explain a little bit about the sort of the city
10:04
Speaker 1: councils and the library boards and how all that works.
10:07
Speaker 2: Yes, libraries in the United States have been around for
10:12
Speaker 2: a long time, something to do with some kind of
10:14
Speaker 2: a war that England and America used to have. So
10:19
Speaker 2: some of those libraries are built like differently than most libraries.
10:24
Speaker 2: Most libraries are now kind of instruments of law. They
10:28
Speaker 2: were created by a law somehow, usually for the use
10:31
Speaker 2: and benefit of the public, not just forere anything goes.
10:34
Speaker 2: But that's what it is. And the laws usually set
10:38
Speaker 2: up a means of taking care of the library, like
10:41
Speaker 2: trustees boards of trustees, and so under the law, those
10:45
Speaker 2: trustees may be selected or they may be elected, depending
10:50
Speaker 2: on how the laws set up. So some boards are
10:53
Speaker 2: selected and some are elected, and then the boards kind
10:57
Speaker 2: of have defined duties with in the law of what
11:02
Speaker 2: they are supposed to do in order to take care
11:04
Speaker 2: of the library. That has caused a lot of problems
11:07
Speaker 2: because sometimes the library directors who are hired by the
11:12
Speaker 2: boards feel that they control the libraries and don't worry board,
11:16
Speaker 2: we'll take care of it and we'll do whatever we
11:18
Speaker 2: think is appropriate. And whatever we think is appropriate is
11:21
Speaker 2: often not appropriate, and the board has just given up
11:25
Speaker 2: its rights to somebody who's just taken over, so to speak.
11:29
Speaker 2: So boards need to when they become board members, look
11:33
Speaker 2: at the law, find out what powers they have under
11:36
Speaker 2: their existing laws, and apply them and make sure somebody
11:39
Speaker 2: isn't taking them away from them. So that's how you
11:41
Speaker 2: get on boards here in the United States, either by
11:44
Speaker 2: selection or election under some kind of a statute or
11:46
Speaker 2: law generally.
11:48
Speaker 1: And so once you get on to the boards, I've
11:52
Speaker 1: read some of this in Well, Amanda Jones is very
11:56
Speaker 1: hard to follow, very hard to read book, not because
11:59
Speaker 1: it was high level of intellect, but because it was
12:02
Speaker 1: just hard to follow and hard to read. She mentioned
12:05
Speaker 1: some things about the boards, and that's what she has
12:06
Speaker 1: said was the when she made her big proclamation about
12:12
Speaker 1: censorship at her local public library board. And then that's
12:17
Speaker 1: when she said it all started with Michael Lunsford. So
12:21
Speaker 1: if you went to a board meeting and you spoke
12:23
Speaker 1: out against these kinds of things. I've seen some videos
12:27
Speaker 1: of someone both in the US Andy Canada that has
12:29
Speaker 1: a similar system, and it seems like they can get
12:33
Speaker 1: quite intense in terms of people arguing on either side.
12:37
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen those those kinds of because I
12:39
Speaker 1: know you've been to some of these meetings, if you
12:41
Speaker 1: can maybe explain some of that, because I don't think
12:43
Speaker 1: politics are quite as outwardly obvious in British politics. People
12:49
Speaker 1: aren't quite the same over here, but it seems like
12:52
Speaker 1: some of them can get quite heated in some of
12:54
Speaker 1: the discussions. I've seen some of these videos of people
12:57
Speaker 1: actually reading out the text of some of these books
13:00
Speaker 1: and showing the pictures and they get shut down it's
13:02
Speaker 1: incredible if you had in those kinds of experiences.
13:06
Speaker 2: I've had numerous those kinds of experiences and part of
13:09
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you about some of them in a moment,
13:11
Speaker 2: but I just want to tell you how it happens.
13:13
Speaker 2: It happens because the American Library Association essentially works with
13:17
Speaker 2: multiple other organizations and with their own people to get
13:21
Speaker 2: out a lot of people to show up at these meetings,
13:24
Speaker 2: to crowd out the local crowd. Essentially. I was involved
13:28
Speaker 2: in one in glen Ridge, New Jersey, for example, where
13:31
Speaker 2: there were hundreds of people out there, all supporting keeping
13:36
Speaker 2: some kind of an inappropriate book in the library. It
13:40
Speaker 2: was a public library, they can have whatever books they want.
13:43
Speaker 2: A school library is kind of different. But anyway, there
13:46
Speaker 2: were so many people there with signs and people cheering,
13:51
Speaker 2: and people wearing the same shirts. And then people when
13:54
Speaker 2: they would line up, they would say, get in line,
13:56
Speaker 2: so we get the first tickets so that we can
13:58
Speaker 2: speak first. Wanted to make sure that they crowded out everybody.
14:02
Speaker 2: This is what they do. I met somebody, and then
14:05
Speaker 2: they have people show up. The librarians get people to
14:07
Speaker 2: show up, like the mother of George M. Johnson, who
14:11
Speaker 2: wrote this Boy Ain't Blue, or wherever that book is.
14:17
Speaker 2: I was the one who saw the mother at this Parkridge,
14:20
Speaker 2: New Jersey library and recognized who she was, had a
14:23
Speaker 2: delightful conversation with her because she's adorable. And then as
14:26
Speaker 2: soon as that happened, the media realized who it was
14:28
Speaker 2: and began taking photographs of her. The media was probably
14:31
Speaker 2: called out by the American Library Association too. She gets
14:35
Speaker 2: to speak for three minutes, even though everybody everybody else
14:38
Speaker 2: got to speak for two minutes. And this is the
14:40
Speaker 2: kind of mass gang up that happens because the American
14:43
Speaker 2: Library Association has been creating local organizations, has been a
14:49
Speaker 2: funding and helping and building up local organizations, hundreds of
14:55
Speaker 2: them throughout the United States, to then pressure and bully boards.
15:00
Speaker 2: And in fact, in that particular case, there was so
15:03
Speaker 2: much bullying going on that the people who were in
15:07
Speaker 2: favor of the action they wanted on the books were
15:10
Speaker 2: too intimidated to even show up at the meeting. I
15:14
Speaker 2: was the only person who spoke up in favor of
15:17
Speaker 2: those people, not necessarily in favor of their point, but
15:21
Speaker 2: just in favor of them having the right to have
15:24
Speaker 2: a point, and for my speaking up at that meeting,
15:28
Speaker 2: the New Jersey ACLU decided to say how awful it
15:34
Speaker 2: was that somebody spoke up and the other side right,
15:37
Speaker 2: they're all for free speech, but when you use free speech,
15:40
Speaker 2: suddenly they don't want to hear it and they crowd
15:43
Speaker 2: you out. This is what these meetings are like. Some
15:46
Speaker 2: of them can get very violent. Some people can be
15:48
Speaker 2: removed from rooms by police and things like that. I
15:52
Speaker 2: was with John Amanchakwu from I Think It's I Know
15:58
Speaker 2: Good dot us and he goes around the country here
16:01
Speaker 2: in the United States to various school boards to read
16:04
Speaker 2: these books to them, and sometimes he gets escorted out.
16:08
Speaker 2: I was there at one of those meetings. I filmed
16:10
Speaker 2: the whole thing, frankly, and they just don't want to
16:13
Speaker 2: hear anything that goes against what the majority of people are.
16:19
Speaker 2: And that majority is created by the American Library Association.
16:25
Speaker 2: The locals aren't activated to get in to get this active. Now,
16:30
Speaker 2: it's just the American Library Association. They get out there,
16:34
Speaker 2: ACLU people, they're Pan America people, their national Coalition, they
16:38
Speaker 2: get censorship people. That goes on and on and on,
16:40
Speaker 2: and suddenly you're a school board that gets inundated with
16:44
Speaker 2: hundreds of people for a meeting, and sometimes things that
16:50
Speaker 2: you say in these meetings will get you sued. Parents
16:54
Speaker 2: in Roxbury, New Jersey, for example, were sued by the
16:59
Speaker 2: school library and because they said these books were inappropriate
17:02
Speaker 2: and shouldn't be in the library. And somehow they use
17:05
Speaker 2: that as the excuse to sue the parents because the
17:08
Speaker 2: American Library Association funds these lawsuits. So on the QT quietly,
17:15
Speaker 2: and so even if you do show up and speak out,
17:19
Speaker 2: you could be sued. Oh look at that. I was
17:21
Speaker 2: just sued a few days ago for speaking up at
17:23
Speaker 2: board meetings. What do you know. This is how they
17:26
Speaker 2: operate here in the United States. It can be wild.
17:29
Speaker 1: That's incredible. We don't have those kinds of things over
17:32
Speaker 1: here in the UK. So I tried to tell people
17:35
Speaker 1: over here, you know, American meetings are quite different. And
17:40
Speaker 1: it's the same with the campaign.
17:41
Speaker 2: I know.
17:42
Speaker 1: I was sharing a lot of clips for people a
17:44
Speaker 1: discollection that just happened of you know, the Trump rallies
17:48
Speaker 1: and the Kamalo rallies, and nothing like that happens over here.
17:52
Speaker 1: But it's quite entertaining to people that I've shared it
17:56
Speaker 1: with them, Trying to imagine what it's like to be
17:59
Speaker 1: at some of these things. It's just so incredibly different.
18:02
Speaker 1: But I mean, at least I would say that you
18:06
Speaker 1: have an advantage over there because you do have people
18:10
Speaker 1: that are speaking out. You have Moms for Liberty, you
18:13
Speaker 1: have all of these groups that are trying to do something.
18:15
Speaker 1: And I think that's a cultural difference over here, which
18:19
Speaker 1: is people are less likely to want to speak out.
18:22
Speaker 1: And it's not anything negative. It's just a difference in
18:26
Speaker 1: how people do things over here. But I think we
18:29
Speaker 1: need more of it because we're getting in some of
18:32
Speaker 1: these same books, We're having the same situations. But if
18:35
Speaker 1: we don't have anyone speaking up, then is just going
18:38
Speaker 1: to continue to get worse. So I'm hoping you can
18:42
Speaker 1: give some people some inspiration through this discussion.
18:46
Speaker 2: You have to speak out, and there has to be
18:48
Speaker 2: enough of you to make a difference. Right right now,
18:51
Speaker 2: people in England, I can't believe you could say something
18:54
Speaker 2: online and then you can go to jail for more
18:56
Speaker 2: time than somebody who rapes some kids. That England is
19:00
Speaker 2: crazy right now. So I don't know what to say
19:02
Speaker 2: about that. I'm not an expert on England, but it
19:03
Speaker 2: looks like you're having a lot of troubles over there,
19:06
Speaker 2: but I think if enough parents say something and come out,
19:09
Speaker 2: they can't possibly jail all of you. So you need
19:13
Speaker 2: to come out. You need to make Moms for Liberty
19:15
Speaker 2: types of groups, get people, you know organized. This is
19:19
Speaker 2: what the librarians do that they're now into community organizing
19:23
Speaker 2: in the United States. Right well, I won't get into
19:27
Speaker 2: that right now, but you need to get organized too. Essentially,
19:30
Speaker 2: make groups like Moms for Liberty, who knows, maybe call
19:32
Speaker 2: them Moms for Liberty and start getting into these school
19:38
Speaker 2: boards or whatever you call them over there and make
19:41
Speaker 2: some changes.
19:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a few people doing things. We have
19:46
Speaker 1: our viewers will be familiar with the Chemist or Wood
19:48
Speaker 1: in Wales for example, who's been calling out things, not
19:51
Speaker 1: just library books, but just you know that we have
19:54
Speaker 1: these things over here called basically relationship, sexual education, health curriculum.
20:01
Speaker 1: They're slightly different throughout the UK, but we have things
20:05
Speaker 1: like we've seen examples through kim Yshwood and Wales for example,
20:09
Speaker 1: that they have exercises where they're teaching teachers to use
20:13
Speaker 1: Plato to mold genitals together and that's supposed to be
20:16
Speaker 1: a classroom activity. Just so like These are things that
20:20
Speaker 1: are absolutely ridiculously disgusting in my opinion, and children have
20:25
Speaker 1: absolutely no, no reason to do this. But these are
20:30
Speaker 1: the kinds of things that are happening. But it takes
20:32
Speaker 1: people like Kim around the country, I think, for more
20:35
Speaker 1: of us to get organized. And that's what I'm trying
20:37
Speaker 1: to help advocate for.
20:39
Speaker 2: And remember when you're getting organized, who's the person you're
20:42
Speaker 2: protecting here. You're protecting children. They have nobody else to
20:46
Speaker 2: protect them. It's just you and you have these groups
20:49
Speaker 2: that are trying to indoctrinate them. So it's not like
20:54
Speaker 2: somebody else can take care of himself. You don't have
20:56
Speaker 2: to get involved. It's children. There's nobody else who can
20:59
Speaker 2: take care of them. You need to get involved. You
21:02
Speaker 2: need to do it for the children. That's why you
21:05
Speaker 2: do it. That's why I do it, That's why everybody
21:07
Speaker 2: does it. And we keep it, we keep at it,
21:09
Speaker 2: and we keep doing it with a smile because we're
21:12
Speaker 2: doing the right thing and we're going to eventually get
21:16
Speaker 2: our way and stop these children from being indoctrinated. Somebody's
21:20
Speaker 2: got to stand up there and do it, and you're
21:22
Speaker 2: doing it for kids. Just keep that in mind. And
21:24
Speaker 2: you'll keep doing it.
21:25
Speaker 1: That's what I try to keep in mind. I guess
21:28
Speaker 1: if we could get into some examples of some of
21:30
Speaker 1: the books that are in your mind. I've done some
21:33
Speaker 1: of this myself on some of my previous UK column reports,
21:36
Speaker 1: which I will link to you in the final description
21:38
Speaker 1: I think for our interview when it goes out. But
21:41
Speaker 1: what are some examples that just come to your mind
21:43
Speaker 1: that maybe you've spoken out about, because I know you
21:46
Speaker 1: share a lot on your Twitter x account.
21:49
Speaker 2: There's a book called this book is get No, I
21:53
Speaker 2: don't know. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Well,
21:57
Speaker 2: there's a book called this book is but I want
21:59
Speaker 2: to talk about Let's talk about it. This book is
22:03
Speaker 2: pervasively vulgar and educationally unsuitable, two words I use because
22:08
Speaker 2: they come from a United States Supreme Court case in
22:11
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two called Board of Education versus Pico whatever.
22:17
Speaker 2: They're educationally unsuitable and pervasively vulgar. Now, in New Jersey,
22:20
Speaker 2: there's also an obscenity law for children under eighteen, and
22:25
Speaker 2: these books violate that obscenity law. And the obscenity law
22:29
Speaker 2: would basically make a crime out of everything that school
22:34
Speaker 2: librarians are doing and put them in jail, which I
22:37
Speaker 2: think is a great idea if they're breaking the obscenity law.
22:41
Speaker 2: In fact, it is so well known that it breaks
22:45
Speaker 2: the obscenity law that the American Library Association is trying
22:48
Speaker 2: to get legislation passed all throughout the United States and
22:51
Speaker 2: in New Jersey which specifically adds an exemption for librarians
22:57
Speaker 2: against the obscenity law so that they could continue to
23:01
Speaker 2: teach them anything they want and violate the obscenity So
23:04
Speaker 2: what am I talking about violates the obscenity This book,
23:07
Speaker 2: for example. You know, I'm thinking to myself, how do
23:11
Speaker 2: I say this without being cut off by the sensors
23:14
Speaker 2: or whatever. But there is material in there that is
23:18
Speaker 2: absolutely so inappropriate for children. It may be fine for
23:23
Speaker 2: adults who are really into this kind of stuff that whatever,
23:28
Speaker 2: but children it's really inappropriate. For example, how to use
23:34
Speaker 2: objects with regard to your behind, shall we say, And
23:42
Speaker 2: how to make sure that you don't get harmed by them,
23:45
Speaker 2: and how to make sure you clean them, and how
23:46
Speaker 2: to make sure you have fun with them, and what
23:48
Speaker 2: to do with them. I mean, it goes into such
23:50
Speaker 2: great details. It's unbelievable. It's just inappropriate for school book,
23:54
Speaker 2: which is the issue basically, right in a public library
23:58
Speaker 2: that anything goes almost but in a school library that
24:03
Speaker 2: is inappropriate. And the school board approved it because the
24:06
Speaker 2: American Library Association got hundreds of people to come out,
24:11
Speaker 2: and not only that, the American Library Association was so
24:15
Speaker 2: proud of its effort in that particular community that its
24:18
Speaker 2: multiple presidents talk all the time about how community organizing
24:23
Speaker 2: really works to sway the thoughts of the local community
24:26
Speaker 2: boards and things like that. Yeah, they use it as
24:28
Speaker 2: an example of how to better indoctrinate and sexualized children
24:32
Speaker 2: is essentially what they're doing. So that is I think
24:37
Speaker 2: that answers your question.
24:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you can't get into a lot of
24:41
Speaker 1: detail because I've had similar similar concerns when I've tried
24:44
Speaker 1: to cover it on new segments of how much can
24:46
Speaker 1: I show? But I think, you know, it is important
24:49
Speaker 1: to get people to see these things. And there's been
24:52
Speaker 1: a couple of suggestions that well, Michae Lungsford gave me
24:55
Speaker 1: is that the book looks website some other websites. You
24:59
Speaker 1: can actually look up these books and see exactly what's
25:02
Speaker 1: in them. And the thing for me that's interesting is
25:07
Speaker 1: as an educator, when I see that it says, well,
25:09
Speaker 1: this is age appropriate. It might be age appropriate in
25:12
Speaker 1: terms of the level of the language, or maybe it's
25:15
Speaker 1: a picture book, but the content is not age appropriate
25:18
Speaker 1: at all whatsoever. So it really bothers me when they say, well,
25:21
Speaker 1: this is for three to six year olds. But actually
25:24
Speaker 1: when you look at what they're doing, they're starting to explain,
25:28
Speaker 1: you know, pride parades and these kinds of things that
25:30
Speaker 1: they really don't need to know about when they're that age.
25:33
Speaker 2: In addition, when when the librarians talk about age appropriate,
25:37
Speaker 2: what they don't tell you is that the American Library
25:39
Speaker 2: Association works for decades to ensure that any information parents
25:46
Speaker 2: can get about the age appropriateness of books is removed.
25:51
Speaker 2: The American Library Association, for example, censored at its own
25:54
Speaker 2: website once it realized that it was giving out ratings
25:57
Speaker 2: to common Sense Media, which was fighting a rating from
26:02
Speaker 2: one to five on the explicitness of books. So the
26:05
Speaker 2: ALA had sensored from their own website and sent out
26:08
Speaker 2: a message that library schools must remove common Sense Media
26:12
Speaker 2: links and state library associations must remove common Sense Media links.
26:17
Speaker 2: So they're not only using a weird definition of age appropriate,
26:23
Speaker 2: but they're actively ensuring that organizations like booklooks dot org,
26:29
Speaker 2: which provide information to parents about the sexual explicit nature
26:33
Speaker 2: or the inappropriateness of these materials, are actually kept out
26:37
Speaker 2: of libraries, out of everywhere. It's almost like diabolical, almost
26:42
Speaker 2: to think that, you know, not only do parents have
26:46
Speaker 2: enough time making up a decision about something, but there's
26:49
Speaker 2: a library association that's going out of its way to
26:53
Speaker 2: remove materials and information that the parents could use to
26:58
Speaker 2: make up their own mind for their own children. That's
27:01
Speaker 2: the real problem here is these people are pushing their
27:04
Speaker 2: way into communities nationwide. It's just their view and it's
27:09
Speaker 2: harming people.
27:11
Speaker 1: So what do you think is at the heart of
27:13
Speaker 1: why they're doing this.
27:15
Speaker 2: There is an article written by a professor at the
27:19
Speaker 2: University of Houston called Rita Coogansen which goes into details
27:24
Speaker 2: as to why the ALA is doing this, and they
27:29
Speaker 2: the ALI is doing it to take away rights from
27:32
Speaker 2: parents in order to better indoctrinate children for political reasons
27:38
Speaker 2: related to the sixties movement. I now that sounds crazy.
27:43
Speaker 2: That is what's in the article that did you know
27:47
Speaker 2: that I make available to people. I'm not an expert on,
27:51
Speaker 2: you know, the sixties movement, shall we say, but that
27:54
Speaker 2: is an article that I have read which goes into
27:57
Speaker 2: detail about how this stuff did start about sixty years
28:00
Speaker 2: ago within the American Library Association. This is why we're
28:05
Speaker 2: here today. You and I are talking now because this
28:09
Speaker 2: inappropriate stuff is sweeping in the United States. So then
28:11
Speaker 2: it sweeps other countries because we have somehow big influenced
28:16
Speaker 2: our wonderful library associations which are harming children, as have
28:21
Speaker 2: somehow swept into other countries. That's why we're here. This
28:25
Speaker 2: is why they're doing it. It's for political gain, just
28:29
Speaker 2: like lots of other organizations have been taken over for
28:32
Speaker 2: political gain. The Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, maybe they're
28:36
Speaker 2: the girl guides in England churches. Lots of things have
28:40
Speaker 2: been taken over by this kind of ideology. Well now
28:43
Speaker 2: it's in libraries now and it's targeted at our children.
28:48
Speaker 1: So, speaking of political gain, what can you tell us
28:52
Speaker 1: about Emily Drabinski.
28:54
Speaker 2: Emily Drabinski is the current immediate past president of the
29:00
Speaker 2: American Library Association. Last year when she became two years ago,
29:06
Speaker 2: when she became the president elect. She tweeted out how
29:11
Speaker 2: happy she was that a Marxist lesbian her words, not mine,
29:17
Speaker 2: Marxist lesbian became the president of the American Library Association
29:22
Speaker 2: and something like imagine the power that we can wield
29:26
Speaker 2: to make things better or something like that, solidarity. I
29:30
Speaker 2: love you, mom. She's eventually removed that tweet and sort
29:33
Speaker 2: of said, I'm sorry I ever tweeted it because it
29:35
Speaker 2: brought too much attention to what we're actually doing in
29:38
Speaker 2: the American Library Association. Emily Drabinsky has gone on to
29:44
Speaker 2: attend a socialism conference in Chicago where she met with
29:53
Speaker 2: socialists and communists and said, we need your help in
29:57
Speaker 2: turning libraries into sites for so socialism training. This is
30:02
Speaker 2: the head of the American Library Association going to a
30:05
Speaker 2: socialism conference saying to actual hundreds of actual socialists, we
30:10
Speaker 2: need your help. Fortunately, you know, how do I make
30:13
Speaker 2: these statements. I got to tell you I make all
30:14
Speaker 2: these statements because this stuff is recorded and reported. In
30:19
Speaker 2: this case, this was recorded and reported by doctor Carlin Borisenko.
30:25
Speaker 2: So you can go to my website or her website
30:28
Speaker 2: add here Emily Drubinsky saying this to all these people.
30:33
Speaker 2: It's quite remarkable. That's the problem at the American Library Association.
30:37
Speaker 2: The next library president elected happens to be Marxist. The
30:42
Speaker 2: president elect right now happens to be Marxist and non binary.
30:49
Speaker 2: So kids are in for a real treat soon. And
30:53
Speaker 2: the next set of people who are being elected, they're
30:57
Speaker 2: considering for the next election, they are open me out
31:00
Speaker 2: in Marxist as well too. So this is what's happening
31:03
Speaker 2: in the American Library Association. And they're bragging about it,
31:07
Speaker 2: and then when they get caught at it, they say, oh,
31:09
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that.
31:11
Speaker 1: It's a little bit too late at that point. That's
31:14
Speaker 1: the problem. Because conferences are recorded. That's just a common thing.
31:18
Speaker 1: Everyone does it now, So whatever you say at a conference,
31:22
Speaker 1: it's out there and it's probably everywhere on YouTube for
31:24
Speaker 1: everyone to find.
31:26
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you a tip. I'm going to
31:27
Speaker 2: here's a tip for everybody out there in England and
31:30
Speaker 2: everywhere else listening to this. I'm how to how to
31:33
Speaker 2: find out information about what these librarians are and what
31:36
Speaker 2: are they doing. I do this. Other people don't, but
31:40
Speaker 2: I do it, and therefore I find stuff which becomes newsworthy.
31:44
Speaker 2: So I'm going to tell you what my secret is.
31:46
Speaker 2: The secret is just what you just said. They record things,
31:49
Speaker 2: go to the library conferences online, look them up, listen
31:54
Speaker 2: to the speeches, and after a while you'll get used
31:57
Speaker 2: to what's going on and maybe you're going to actually
32:00
Speaker 2: hear something that is truly unbelievable. Then you report it.
32:07
Speaker 2: That's what I've done. For example, I've heard the director
32:13
Speaker 2: of the Office for Intellectual Freedom and the Freedom to
32:16
Speaker 2: Read Foundation at the American Library Association training librarians that
32:21
Speaker 2: before stuff becomes legislation, we need to have sustained messaging
32:28
Speaker 2: like lying about the materials that the kids are reading,
32:33
Speaker 2: and we need to take away the idea that these
32:36
Speaker 2: are And then she says inappropriate for miners and corrects
32:39
Speaker 2: herself sexually inappropriate for miners, and we need to reframe
32:44
Speaker 2: it as diversity and inclusion. This is the training that
32:49
Speaker 2: I found on a YouTube video by just looking at
32:52
Speaker 2: all their stuff at all. You guys can do this too.
32:56
Speaker 2: And that thing that I found and published a became
33:00
Speaker 2: the subject of a US Senate review on banned books
33:06
Speaker 2: in the United States. There's no such thing since nineteen
33:09
Speaker 2: fteen sixty three, and it became the subject and Senator
33:16
Speaker 2: Mike Lee talked about that. He played that video that
33:20
Speaker 2: I just told you, and he said, look, they just
33:22
Speaker 2: said the the quiet part out loud. They are grooming
33:26
Speaker 2: students and they know it, and they're sexualizing them. So frankly,
33:30
Speaker 2: when I say they're grooming and basically using what a
33:36
Speaker 2: senator said during a hearing on a band book's hearing,
33:40
Speaker 2: that's what they're doing. So I'm not making it up again,
33:45
Speaker 2: I'm just following what our elected leaders are saying about this.
33:49
Speaker 2: But the point of this is you can go into
33:53
Speaker 2: where your library associations are having their conferences and you
33:56
Speaker 2: can look at them. Nobody else does, just librarians, and
33:59
Speaker 2: you can look them and they say things that are
34:02
Speaker 2: damning those in those tapes, and then you can find
34:05
Speaker 2: your own stuff and make your own way in exposing
34:09
Speaker 2: what's going on in your own areas. Yeah.
34:12
Speaker 1: I do that now as well, which is interesting. I
34:14
Speaker 1: feel like I'm spying on my own profession when I
34:17
Speaker 1: see these things that they're coming out with, and you know,
34:20
Speaker 1: just I know that obviously you're focusing on the safety
34:23
Speaker 1: of children. But one of the things that I see
34:25
Speaker 1: as watching what the universities are doing, which is all
34:29
Speaker 1: of this changing language decolonization, which is really destruction. If
34:34
Speaker 1: you listen to James Lindsay's work at New Discourses, that
34:37
Speaker 1: they're changing what things are called and library catalogs at
34:40
Speaker 1: the university level so that ultimately nobody will be able
34:44
Speaker 1: to find anything right. But my favorite example that I
34:47
Speaker 1: use is from a university here. It's in England, the
34:50
Speaker 1: University of Manchester, and they talked about in a webinar
34:54
Speaker 1: how they were decolonizing their catalog and their collection. One
34:58
Speaker 1: of the things that they did, for example, was change
35:01
Speaker 1: the word costume to traditional dress because costume is now
35:05
Speaker 1: an offensive word, and so it's fine to give sexual
35:09
Speaker 1: materials to children, but it's not fine to use the
35:11
Speaker 1: word costume because the word costume is offensive. I don't
35:17
Speaker 1: know what to say. That's hysterical, I know, that's all
35:24
Speaker 1: you can do is laugh at it sometimes because it
35:26
Speaker 1: does actually get this ridiculous when you start to see
35:30
Speaker 1: what is going on and what is considered to be
35:33
Speaker 1: a problem, of what is no longer considered to be
35:36
Speaker 1: a problem. It's yeah, it's very strange, but that is
35:41
Speaker 1: a very key point for people to see what's going
35:43
Speaker 1: on out there is to see what you know if
35:46
Speaker 1: you have state library associations as well, have also the
35:50
Speaker 1: annual conferences. I lived in Texas for a long time.
35:54
Speaker 1: That's where I did my education, and I worked as
35:56
Speaker 1: a librarian in Texas, and that's the second largest library association,
36:00
Speaker 1: just after Ala, so they have quite a bit of
36:03
Speaker 1: coverage of what they're doing in Texas. At the same time,
36:07
Speaker 1: that's a question I have for you personally. The World
36:10
Speaker 1: Library Association lists itself as being based in Texas, but
36:14
Speaker 1: you're in New Jersey, so I'm wondering what connection you
36:17
Speaker 1: have to Texas, just as someone who lived in the
36:20
Speaker 1: Dallas area for a very long time.
36:22
Speaker 2: Texas Library Association is the largest library association in the
36:26
Speaker 2: United States. As you mentioned State Library Association. I reported
36:31
Speaker 2: something about them that was so unbelievable by listening to recordings,
36:35
Speaker 2: and I'm getting to your point in a moment. I
36:39
Speaker 2: reported that because I just said, you got to listen
36:41
Speaker 2: to tapes that they're training the librarians how to keep
36:46
Speaker 2: the parents and legislators from knowing what's in the books
36:49
Speaker 2: by intentionally using their private devices and private wi fis
36:54
Speaker 2: and private email addresses in order to talk about school business,
36:58
Speaker 2: but do in a way that the public can never
37:00
Speaker 2: get under open Public Records Acts or open government laws.
37:06
Speaker 2: So I was shocked by this to have somebody just
37:09
Speaker 2: say it out in the open. But they're talking to themselves,
37:12
Speaker 2: you see. I just happened to look at it too,
37:15
Speaker 2: and so I reported on it, and they made a
37:18
Speaker 2: big story, and so big that the Texas Library Association
37:21
Speaker 2: itself protected its Twitter account. It was Twitter at that time.
37:26
Speaker 2: They protected its account for I think like three weeks
37:30
Speaker 2: or something like that, and then I guess after they
37:31
Speaker 2: cleaned it up, came back online again and they blocked me.
37:35
Speaker 2: So now I said, look, I'm disclosing this inappropriate. I'm sorry.
37:41
Speaker 2: I'm disclosing the stuff that they know they're doing to
37:44
Speaker 2: basically harm children. That's why they're having this conference. It's
37:48
Speaker 2: coming from the head of the Texas Library Association who's
37:51
Speaker 2: also a member of an executive member on the Freedom
37:53
Speaker 2: to Aid Foundation, and they're blocking me and they're exposed.
38:00
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I also exposed that they had a drag
38:02
Speaker 2: queen for their keynote speaker, a keynote speaker at a
38:06
Speaker 2: library conference that had just come back from COVID. I
38:08
Speaker 2: think the keynote speaker was a drag queen. It's like,
38:11
Speaker 2: look at this, and so they blocked me. I decided
38:14
Speaker 2: at that point I was going to base my Library
38:17
Speaker 2: Association in Texas because it's the biggest library state library association.
38:24
Speaker 2: They're doing terrible things to children, and it's going to
38:27
Speaker 2: be based in Texas because I want to be there
38:30
Speaker 2: when the time comes to finally after years of growth
38:36
Speaker 2: as a new organization, to finally, you know, make sure
38:39
Speaker 2: that people are now actually supporting local control, local standards,
38:46
Speaker 2: and local law instead of law standards and control that
38:50
Speaker 2: comes from Chicago, Illinois.
38:52
Speaker 1: And it's the World Library Association, right just so our
38:54
Speaker 1: viewers can look.
38:55
Speaker 2: It up, Worldlibrary Association dot org. Yeah you should. You
39:00
Speaker 2: have to realize, why are we doing this? Why is
39:03
Speaker 2: Mom's celeberty out there doing this? Why am I there's
39:05
Speaker 2: Monster America, there's a Man's Resistance, there's no left turn
39:10
Speaker 2: in education, the National Women's Foundation or something. Why are
39:16
Speaker 2: we all doing this? Because because the American Library Association
39:21
Speaker 2: has been pushing this inappropriate stuff on kids. If they
39:24
Speaker 2: weren't doing this, if they weren't sneaking things behind parents' backs.
39:29
Speaker 2: If they weren't taking away the rights for parents to
39:32
Speaker 2: see what's explicit, we would not be here. We would
39:35
Speaker 2: not be having this conversation. There wouldn't be a problem.
39:38
Speaker 2: They've brought this on themselves. We're here because they're doing
39:41
Speaker 2: these inappropriate things. Then, by the way, they call us extremists, right,
39:47
Speaker 2: that's how it works. They push this inappropriate stuff on
39:51
Speaker 2: kids for sixty years by design, and then when parents
39:54
Speaker 2: finally catch on and fight back, the parents are the extremists.
40:00
Speaker 1: Member of a group here in Scotland where I published
40:02
Speaker 1: my book review of Amanda's book, called the Scottish Union
40:05
Speaker 1: for Education, and that our basis are sort of our
40:09
Speaker 1: tagline is education not in doctrination. So we're trying to
40:13
Speaker 1: inform parents because the governments here are all sort of
40:18
Speaker 1: in lockstep with providing this out there. And I think
40:21
Speaker 1: Scotland is probably even worse than England and Wales and
40:24
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland at this point. And one of the things
40:28
Speaker 1: that I was canceled for out of Syllip was because
40:32
Speaker 1: I posted an article a few months on the Scottish
40:34
Speaker 1: Union for Education about these issues and of an anonymous
40:38
Speaker 1: complaint was raised against me. And I was asked to
40:42
Speaker 1: come in for a formal disciplinary hearing through SYLLAP and
40:45
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not paying you guys my money to
40:47
Speaker 1: be disciplined. So that was part of how I got
40:51
Speaker 1: pushed out of the organization. But Scottish Union for Education,
40:54
Speaker 1: although we're trying to do similar things and get this
40:57
Speaker 1: stuff out of the schools in Scotland, we're being called
41:01
Speaker 1: far right, all right, extremist, all of these things that
41:04
Speaker 1: you've said, and yeah, we get we get the same
41:07
Speaker 1: treatment from certain groups and people, so completely understand where
41:12
Speaker 1: you're coming from.
41:12
Speaker 2: There. We get called white supremacists, chris fascists because we
41:18
Speaker 2: don't want kids to have in school a book about
41:22
Speaker 2: tushy toys, shall we say?
41:28
Speaker 1: Let me say that. So I just want I just
41:32
Speaker 1: got my book review up here and I will probably
41:35
Speaker 1: link to this again in our because I'll write a
41:36
Speaker 1: short article to go along with our discussion. And it's
41:40
Speaker 1: interesting because it's reminded me of some of the things
41:42
Speaker 1: that I put in this review that come directly from
41:45
Speaker 1: Amanda's book that she has said and I've quoted these,
41:49
Speaker 1: so this is not defamation because these are Amanda's words.
41:54
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I am ashamed to be white, or
41:56
Speaker 1: that I have white guilt. That's the first thing the
41:59
Speaker 1: whitey mick whites like to say when the term white
42:02
Speaker 1: privilege is brought up. So I read that to a
42:07
Speaker 1: Scottish person and they said, well, that's offensive to me
42:10
Speaker 1: because I'm Scottish. And how is that not offensive to
42:13
Speaker 1: a Scottish person? Have you ever just wanted to punch
42:17
Speaker 1: someone in the face with all your might? Maybe someone
42:19
Speaker 1: has said something awful to you and the thought crossed
42:22
Speaker 1: your mind that a good ass whipping would wipe the
42:24
Speaker 1: smirk off the face and teach them a lesson. I
42:27
Speaker 1: don't advocate violence, but I have thought about how good
42:29
Speaker 1: it would feel to need my haters and the groin.
42:33
Speaker 1: How was that not hateful? Nobody was asking to interview
42:37
Speaker 1: her haters, as she called them, except WHA could do
42:40
Speaker 1: alt right bloggers. In reference to Moms for Liberty, she wrote,
42:47
Speaker 1: groups like Moms for Liberty are popping up like zits
42:50
Speaker 1: all over the country and provided names for the group
42:53
Speaker 1: such as planned Karen Hood, Minivan Tealiban, assholes with casseroles,
42:59
Speaker 1: and cute a Mom's. So she can say those things,
43:05
Speaker 1: but you can't say anything about her. What's your response
43:08
Speaker 1: to that.
43:08
Speaker 2: You know, I thought you were initially asking me the question,
43:11
Speaker 2: and I was about to say, I would never hit anybody.
43:13
Speaker 2: You do this through the political process, right, And then
43:16
Speaker 2: I realized you were reading from her that we're just
43:20
Speaker 2: two different people. I mean, we're not really two different people.
43:23
Speaker 2: Those the people who are like her have been infected
43:26
Speaker 2: by the mind virus. As we say, that's how this happens.
43:30
Speaker 2: That's why people, you know, are that's why this division
43:33
Speaker 2: in the country intentionally set up between people with the
43:36
Speaker 2: mind virus in order to get them to fight with
43:39
Speaker 2: each other. And she's infected by it, and she's basically
43:43
Speaker 2: saying it right there. Actually, I've exposed a lot about
43:45
Speaker 2: her by once again just listening to the broadcasts that
43:49
Speaker 2: are published by her, and she said, she went into detail.
43:54
Speaker 2: I have to you know, maybe I won't refer to
43:57
Speaker 2: anything I discovered. I'll just talk about New Louisiana, who
44:03
Speaker 2: reported on her. New Louisiana, headed by Michael Lunsford, reported
44:09
Speaker 2: that she said that, you know, she knows these works
44:13
Speaker 2: are inappropriate for children, and that the parents and the
44:17
Speaker 2: school administration doesn't want these parents to get these inappropriate works,
44:21
Speaker 2: but she's going to give them two. She's going to
44:23
Speaker 2: give them to the children anyway, just by calling them
44:27
Speaker 2: something different. If you know, if you know what I mean,
44:30
Speaker 2: if you read between the lines, these are things that
44:32
Speaker 2: she said. So that's what I think about her. She's
44:39
Speaker 2: she's making these statements that are obviously inapprovement. I mean,
44:42
Speaker 2: who would ever hit anybody like that? That wasn't my
44:46
Speaker 2: first thought. And meantime, the reason why she's making them
44:50
Speaker 2: is because, according to New Louisiana, she's planning to push
44:56
Speaker 2: inappropriate material on children without the parents or their legislators
45:00
Speaker 2: knowing what's going on. This is a big problem. It's
45:04
Speaker 2: in a lot of live school librarians. These are all
45:07
Speaker 2: these people are all heroes to each other. They back
45:10
Speaker 2: each other up, they high five each other. They especially
45:13
Speaker 2: love what's going on now that she has sued me.
45:15
Speaker 2: I mean, they really love it. So that's what I
45:20
Speaker 2: think about about that situation. And we have to remember,
45:25
Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen, that these schools are public schools. They're
45:29
Speaker 2: not Chicago, Illinois American Library Association schools. We have to
45:34
Speaker 2: control what's in the public and if these people are
45:36
Speaker 2: working over time to ensure the public isn't finding out
45:40
Speaker 2: what's going on, then we need to find out. Well,
45:44
Speaker 2: that's what I've been doing for twenty five years. I
45:46
Speaker 2: told you my secret, just by listening to their broadcasts
45:48
Speaker 2: and then reporting them. And somebody has to do something.
45:52
Speaker 2: And it looks like it's you know, with lots of
45:56
Speaker 2: these groups popping up, it looks like something's going to
45:58
Speaker 2: be happening. So I'm happy.
46:02
Speaker 1: Looks like from the School Library Journal article that you
46:05
Speaker 1: sent me reporting that this has happened to you that there,
46:10
Speaker 1: you can almost feel the bias in the article right,
46:13
Speaker 1: like please, it's really you know, as someone who works
46:20
Speaker 1: in independent media, the point is you're supposed to just
46:22
Speaker 1: report what you see, and but the bias is just
46:26
Speaker 1: is just so clear.
46:27
Speaker 2: They reprinted everything that she said, like half the art,
46:31
Speaker 2: about a quarter of the article is what she said,
46:34
Speaker 2: nothing from me, no interview from me, and they came
46:37
Speaker 2: out so quickly. Look out fast between the time that
46:40
Speaker 2: thing happened and the time the article appears in School
46:42
Speaker 2: Library Journal. I'm going to tell you there's an organization
46:45
Speaker 2: in Ala called Unite Against Book Bands. The ALA created
46:49
Speaker 2: it a few years back after parents were successfully getting
46:52
Speaker 2: genderqueer removed from schools because it was educationally unsuitable and
46:55
Speaker 2: pervasively vulgar, and they created it to create the false
46:59
Speaker 2: lie that PICO doesn't apply to school books, so you can't,
47:04
Speaker 2: and that rather that nothing can be removed under the
47:07
Speaker 2: Peaco case because every book has to do with an idea,
47:09
Speaker 2: and books can't be removed for the ideas they contain.
47:14
Speaker 2: So part of that Unite against book bans includes many organizations,
47:18
Speaker 2: including School Library Journal, and they all working together as
47:22
Speaker 2: a giant group to push this material. Even her book,
47:29
Speaker 2: the idea came to her like in a day when
47:31
Speaker 2: somebody came up to her who's a part of the
47:33
Speaker 2: Unit against book bands Bloomsbury's publishers, and said, hey, you know,
47:37
Speaker 2: we want you to think about it writing a book. Okay,
47:39
Speaker 2: I did, so out comes this book really quickly. The
47:41
Speaker 2: average writer would would have like a hard time getting
47:44
Speaker 2: into into bookstores and things like that. This person was
47:48
Speaker 2: just pushed right along because of this giant industry. It includes,
47:52
Speaker 2: for example, the School Library General that puts out an
47:54
Speaker 2: article that's completely biased, like you said, and like you
47:58
Speaker 2: saw this, what's going on. It's a giant pile up
48:02
Speaker 2: amongst all these organizations against parents and people who oppose
48:08
Speaker 2: an appropriate material in schools. People who oppose age and
48:13
Speaker 2: appropriate material are the problem to the librarians.
48:17
Speaker 1: And you know it, really it bothers me just as
48:20
Speaker 1: a librarian. And I still think of myself as a
48:22
Speaker 1: library and regardless of what's happened to me, I always will.
48:26
Speaker 1: But it's it bothers me that this is what's the
48:30
Speaker 1: exemplar of our profession.
48:32
Speaker 2: Right.
48:32
Speaker 1: So if this woman is the one who's got these
48:35
Speaker 1: oh I'm school librarian of the year, I've got a book,
48:38
Speaker 1: I've got a book tour, and then you read the
48:40
Speaker 1: content where she says things like hater's going to hate,
48:44
Speaker 1: and it just you know, we're supposed to be educated
48:46
Speaker 1: people as librarians, right, You're supposed to have a master's
48:50
Speaker 1: degree to be according to the American Library Association, a
48:53
Speaker 1: master's degree a set of qualifications, experience, and to have
48:58
Speaker 1: a book that goes out like this that's meant for
49:00
Speaker 1: the public. Is this is this really what we want
49:04
Speaker 1: us people to know about our profession, which has always
49:07
Speaker 1: been known as oh, those are the brainy book people
49:10
Speaker 1: that you know sit behind their books all day. So
49:12
Speaker 1: that's one thing. And now we've got haters gonna hate
49:15
Speaker 1: they hate me, those altright conspiracy theories. It's just it's
49:19
Speaker 1: just not a good look for the profession at all.
49:21
Speaker 1: And I would we already have an image problem anyway,
49:24
Speaker 1: but I really hate it that this is something that
49:26
Speaker 1: has come out to say, well, here's a leading librarian,
49:29
Speaker 1: school Librarian of the Year has written this wonderful book,
49:32
Speaker 1: and it just sounds like to me a teenage girl
49:34
Speaker 1: texting her friend when you.
49:36
Speaker 2: Say she's the school librarian of the year. How did
49:39
Speaker 2: that happen? Well, I know how it happened. It happened
49:42
Speaker 2: because you can self nominate yourself and she self nominated
49:46
Speaker 2: herself three years until she was finally selected. Gee, she
49:52
Speaker 2: awarded herself a gift, a school Librarian of the Year essentially,
49:54
Speaker 2: is what happened. That's how that happened. And then you
49:57
Speaker 2: mentioned the MLIS degrees, the Masters of you know whatever,
50:02
Speaker 2: and those degrees now, which are approved or accredited by
50:07
Speaker 2: the American Library Association. The American Library Association has required
50:11
Speaker 2: those degrees to teach diversity, equity and inclusion in every
50:17
Speaker 2: single class taken in library school, not just a single class,
50:23
Speaker 2: not just how to deal with the people in the library.
50:27
Speaker 2: Every class has diversity, equity, and inclusion in it now.
50:31
Speaker 2: So when you have an MLIS degree, you sort of
50:34
Speaker 2: have a degree that specializes in Emily Drubinsky's favorite topic.
50:40
Speaker 1: The difference from when I did my degree back in
50:43
Speaker 1: two thousand and one and I left America in I
50:46
Speaker 1: guess I moved to Scotland in twenty fifteen and I
50:49
Speaker 1: taught in library programs before then. It was even back
50:52
Speaker 1: then it was not our requirement. Wasn't even something we
50:55
Speaker 1: talked about. So it's amazing how much things have changed
50:58
Speaker 1: in ten years.
51:00
Speaker 2: The more that these librarians get away with this stuff,
51:02
Speaker 2: the more that they see that they can, and the
51:04
Speaker 2: more that they do.
51:06
Speaker 1: So what do you think about the Michael Lunsford case,
51:09
Speaker 1: Because you know, I read about it in Amanda's book,
51:11
Speaker 1: I've read about it, but I know that you and Michael,
51:14
Speaker 1: and I've interviewed Michael as well. Just wondering your perspective
51:17
Speaker 1: on what he went through and do you have any
51:19
Speaker 1: updates as well, because I know he was waiting for
51:22
Speaker 1: word from the Supreme Court. I believe about if they
51:24
Speaker 1: were going to hear it he's still waiting.
51:26
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I think about that Michael lunsburd case.
51:29
Speaker 2: Along comes an anonymous donation. I think it was the
51:31
Speaker 2: first one to the GoFundMe for Amanda, and it was
51:35
Speaker 2: eleven thousand dollars. Somebody gave an eleven thousand dollars anonymous
51:40
Speaker 2: book whatever for Amanda to sue parents, which is what
51:45
Speaker 2: the American Library Association trained people to do. And it
51:50
Speaker 2: just so we're clear when I say ALA trained people
51:53
Speaker 2: to do this, I want to let you all know
51:56
Speaker 2: that this was discovered in a Freedom of Information Act
51:59
Speaker 2: request where notes from that librarians took it. A training
52:04
Speaker 2: given by the American Library Association included that parents that
52:08
Speaker 2: librarians should sue parents for defamation because it will waste
52:12
Speaker 2: their time and run them up to five hundred thousand
52:17
Speaker 2: dollars in money and costs and basically put them out
52:20
Speaker 2: of the game, which is basically what they're trying to
52:22
Speaker 2: do to me right now. So the ALA trains people
52:24
Speaker 2: to do this. Now it happened to Michael Lunsford and
52:28
Speaker 2: New Louisiana and suddenly there's an eleven thousand dollars donation.
52:32
Speaker 2: That's just the first one that appears there. And I
52:37
Speaker 2: can tell you that I have been sued for defamation
52:40
Speaker 2: before by a library, by a librarian, and the request
52:46
Speaker 2: was that I would delete my article on the homophobia
52:51
Speaker 2: within the American Library Association, which I refused to do.
52:56
Speaker 2: The case went away, they lost, there was no defamation,
52:59
Speaker 2: and they're now suing in New Jersey against the parent
53:03
Speaker 2: in the case that I am involved. I'm not named party,
53:06
Speaker 2: but I'm in the case. They sued Michael Lunsford. They're
53:10
Speaker 2: suing me. They're going to lose. They have so far,
53:14
Speaker 2: They've lost everywhere, and they're going to keep losing because
53:19
Speaker 2: there's no they're there. They're just doing this because the
53:22
Speaker 2: American Library Association is urging people to do that, and
53:26
Speaker 2: then when they do, it kind of like harms them
53:29
Speaker 2: to a certain extent. One person who sued and ended
53:33
Speaker 2: up losing her job and is now working in a
53:36
Speaker 2: nature reserve somewhere or something like that, I can't remember
53:39
Speaker 2: the exact details. It like ruins their lives. If you librarians,
53:43
Speaker 2: if you follow the American Library Association advice to sue
53:47
Speaker 2: parents up for defamation, you're going down a long road
53:52
Speaker 2: that is going to not be fruitful. So that's what
53:57
Speaker 2: you asked me what I thought about this. That's what's
53:59
Speaker 2: going on on. Michael Lunsber's has won four cases at
54:04
Speaker 2: A four so far and it's now in the Supreme Court.
54:07
Speaker 2: So that's where we are with this. This is what
54:10
Speaker 2: we're dealing with, a giant organization that gets lots of funding.
54:15
Speaker 2: In fact, that brings up another thing. One of the
54:17
Speaker 2: things that I would like to do at World Library
54:19
Speaker 2: Association as we eventually grow, is to provide funding for
54:22
Speaker 2: parents who are sued or who want to sue, because
54:27
Speaker 2: there is no equivalent. It is just unfair that a
54:30
Speaker 2: giant organization with huge funders can load money on people
54:36
Speaker 2: to cause them to sue and there's nothing equivalent on
54:41
Speaker 2: the other side. There's nothing I want to get people
54:47
Speaker 2: on World Library Association to somehow be able to identify
54:50
Speaker 2: the parents being sued and then to provide them with
54:54
Speaker 2: legal and financial support needed to stop this actions by
55:01
Speaker 2: the American Library Association to continue to promote their ideology
55:07
Speaker 2: across America and the world thereby.
55:09
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. I didn't think about that,
55:11
Speaker 1: and it's really sad that parents would even have to
55:14
Speaker 1: think about seeing just to protect their own children. It's
55:17
Speaker 1: just absolutely ridiculous. You just reminded me of a quote
55:21
Speaker 1: from page one of Amanda's book, which just relates to
55:25
Speaker 1: what you just said. And this is what she said
55:27
Speaker 1: when she first got this email after her board meeting
55:31
Speaker 1: where she made her speech, and she said, I'd been
55:35
Speaker 1: spending a large portion of the previous weeks pondering why
55:38
Speaker 1: random strangers go online to put down troll threaten and
55:42
Speaker 1: defame people who they've never met. Do they wake up
55:45
Speaker 1: and think to themselves, I wonder who I can ruin
55:47
Speaker 1: today to make myself feel better, to fill the hole
55:49
Speaker 1: in my life. I believe that anyone who does this
55:52
Speaker 1: kind of thing suffers from some type of trauma or
55:55
Speaker 1: that something elemental is missing from their lives.
55:58
Speaker 2: That's what I mean by the mindrus. They're not even
56:00
Speaker 2: aware of reality.
56:02
Speaker 1: They're not aware of what's happening to the children. They're
56:05
Speaker 1: not aware of what parents are thinking about. They're not
56:07
Speaker 1: aware of the other librarians who are too scared to
56:10
Speaker 1: speak up to save the children that they're trying to
56:13
Speaker 1: help because they don't believe in it. They only think
56:15
Speaker 1: about themselves, And I guess that's maybe part of mind
56:18
Speaker 1: virus as you follow it. Yeah, I'm just wondering if
56:21
Speaker 1: you have any other final things that you would like
56:24
Speaker 1: to say. I hope I can interview with you again
56:27
Speaker 1: as we get maybe on the other side of what
56:29
Speaker 1: you're now just been what you're going through with the defamation.
56:34
Speaker 1: But is there is there anything else that you want
56:36
Speaker 1: to share now? And I'm specifically really anything you want
56:38
Speaker 1: to say, but I'm really interested in any final tips
56:41
Speaker 1: that you can give to parents or anyone who wants
56:44
Speaker 1: to try to go out there and fight for the
56:45
Speaker 1: safety of our children.
56:47
Speaker 2: I'm most interested in providing final tips for the safety
56:50
Speaker 2: of children. That's the goal of all this stuff, and
56:54
Speaker 2: that is you need to get involved. You need to
56:57
Speaker 2: learn what's going on. You need to look at what
57:01
Speaker 2: they're saying and see how it applies in your situation,
57:05
Speaker 2: and see if it's harming your community and your children.
57:09
Speaker 2: You need to get together in groups and try to
57:11
Speaker 2: do something to stop it from happening. These are actually
57:14
Speaker 2: your schools and your children and your governments. Suspect to me,
57:20
Speaker 2: I think it would be especially worse in England or
57:23
Speaker 2: other countries, not the United States, because the United States
57:26
Speaker 2: has this giant ALA, Well it's only forty eight thousand members,
57:29
Speaker 2: shrinking the ALA has this big organization that kind of
57:35
Speaker 2: leads all the other world organizations. So it's even worse.
57:38
Speaker 2: I would imagine in England where you're not only following
57:42
Speaker 2: the law, the dictations of your the dictat of your
57:46
Speaker 2: local library associations, but you're also following the one from
57:51
Speaker 2: America in Chicago, Illinois. I mean, just that would really
57:55
Speaker 2: annoy me. People need to just become aware of that
57:58
Speaker 2: and remember that you control your libraries, not some organizations
58:03
Speaker 2: that want to make sure that your children have inappropriate material.
58:07
Speaker 2: As you go through this, another tip would be that
58:10
Speaker 2: you are going to be accused of all sorts of things.
58:12
Speaker 2: You're going to be homophobic, you're going to be anti black,
58:17
Speaker 2: you're going to be just piles and piles of names.
58:20
Speaker 2: None of this, None of this is true. The issue
58:23
Speaker 2: here is age appropriateness. Keep your focus on that. Another
58:26
Speaker 2: thing to consider is when you're doing your research and
58:30
Speaker 2: you're finding out things that are unsavory and you want
58:32
Speaker 2: to talk about it, be aware that libraries and librarians
58:37
Speaker 2: will and library associations will look at what you've done
58:40
Speaker 2: and then delete it if they can. So make yourself
58:44
Speaker 2: screen copies, make yourself a copy on archive dot org,
58:48
Speaker 2: make yourself a copy on archive dot p h okay,
58:52
Speaker 2: two different ones, and get prepared. Get your ducks in
58:57
Speaker 2: a row, so to speak, before you say something about it,
59:00
Speaker 2: because many times, for example, when I pointed out that
59:04
Speaker 2: the American Library Association sample policy for libraries across the
59:09
Speaker 2: United States included that librarians should ignore child pornography, the
59:17
Speaker 2: American Library Association deleted that page and put up an
59:22
Speaker 2: old version that didn't have that, and then said I
59:24
Speaker 2: was lying, but too bad. I already had it on
59:28
Speaker 2: archive dot org and there it was. So that's the
59:31
Speaker 2: kind of games that they play and do. So get
59:34
Speaker 2: your ducks in a row. Back it up everything you do,
59:38
Speaker 2: get together with other parents. Don't be intimidated by these people.
59:42
Speaker 2: That's what they do. We're all new to this, and
59:46
Speaker 2: then we go up against an organization that's been working
59:49
Speaker 2: together behind the scenes for decades and we get whacked
59:54
Speaker 2: out fast. So you got to not be intimidated by
59:56
Speaker 2: that and keep pushing ahead and do the right thing,
1:00:00
Speaker 2: saying ultimately, it's the children you're protecting here. You want
1:00:03
Speaker 2: them to have age appropriate information simple as that.
1:00:07
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I think that's a great place
1:00:09
Speaker 1: to end. Thank you again, Dan for your time today,
1:00:13
Speaker 1: and I hope to keep in touch with you as
1:00:16
Speaker 1: this progresses, and no doubt we'll speak again. So thank
1:00:19
Speaker 1: you very much again.
1:00:20
Speaker 2: Anytime nice to speak with you. Thank you,