Latest / Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt / CI to Eye | The Art of Audience Engagement

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CI to Eye | The Art of Audience Engagement · Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt

0:00
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1:08
Hello everyone, Dan here.
1:10
So we all know that audience engagement is critical for attracting and retaining
1:14
new attendees, but how exactly do we do that in practice?
1:17
And what kinds of pre- and post-show activities work best to break down
1:21
barriers for newcomers? To answer these questions,
1:25
I caught up with Holly Mulcahy,
1:27
Wichita Symphony Orchestra's concertmaster and Partner for Audience Engagement.
1:31
For Holly,
1:32
"audience engagement" isn't just a marketing platitude-it's a promise.
1:37
She talks about crafting music-inspired cocktails,
1:39
leading audiences through a bird sanctuary,
1:42
and perfecting the "post-show hang." She also explains exactly why deepening
1:47
audience relationships now will pay dividends for our organizations in the long
1:51
run.
1:52
This episode is full of inspiration that will transform your on-site engagement
1:56
strategy. I can't wait to share it with you. So let's dive in, shall we?
2:09
I'm here with Holly Mulcahy,
2:10
concertmaster and Partner for Audience Engagement at the Wichita Symphony
2:14
Orchestra, and we're thrilled to have her here on the pod. Holly,
2:18
welcome to CI to Eye!
2:19
Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
2:22
I'm so excited for this conversation.
2:23
For our listeners who are meeting you for the first time,
2:26
quickly walk us through your journey as a violinist and how you got to where you
2:30
are today.
2:33
Yeah, I started violin... I got interested in the storytelling of violin.
2:38
Specifically, Scheherazade was the piece that drew me in because as a
2:43
child you had the choices of a Disney princess or this Scheherazade
2:48
who told very powerful stories and used the violin as her voice.
2:53
I thought,
2:53
"This is magical." And so I checked out the violin and along the
2:58
journey, enjoyed various steps: youth orchestras,
3:03
my first professional orchestras...
3:05
Then something just kind of switched in me where it wasn't about my
3:10
enjoyment so much that was the importance.
3:12
It was about the audience's enjoyment and having that mirrored back to me,
3:17
reflecting what their experience was.
3:19
So the violin has taken just a roundabout course of how I got
3:24
involved to now the importance of how other people are involved.
3:28
Yeah, you kind of allude to the many,
3:30
many different roles you've had and many different projects you've had over the
3:33
years. What's been some of your favorite professional roles and projects?
3:37
Yeah, absolutely. I live my life in thirds. Concertmaster,
3:42
executive director of a nonprofit, and I also have a solo career.
3:46
The concertmaster has been very fun for me for a number of
3:51
reasons, and that's just connecting with the audience,
3:53
being engaged with the musicians, to the music director,
3:57
to the audience, and reverse.
4:00
And I started a nonprofit called Arts Capacity,
4:03
which takes music into the prisons,
4:06
and I've learned a lot about human nature and finding a pathway through
4:11
music to really connect and communicate. And the other third of my life,
4:15
this kind came about of wanting to suss out a
4:20
passion that I have. I love movie music and especially Westerns,
4:25
the film soundtracks from Westerns.
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Iconic.
4:27
Yeah. So I asked a Hollywood film composer just kind of on a whim,
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would you be willing to write a soundtrack-style violin concerto in the style of
4:36
an epic Western? And he said yes.
4:39
And it's been a really fun audience engaging kind of piece because it allows
4:43
space for audience to find their own experiences and imagine their own mental
4:48
movie. So that's been the path.
4:51
And what brought you to the Wichita Symphony Orchestra?
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It was just an opportunity.
4:57
I was invited to guest concertmaster for a number of concerts and the chemistry
5:01
between the board, the musicians, the staff,
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the audience just really felt organic and it felt like a place that I could be
5:09
my best and bring in my best qualities,
5:13
which is inclusion of new audience members and finding joy in that.
5:18
Yeah,
5:18
it's unusual for a concertmaster to be so involved in audience development and
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engagement.
5:24
Did the symphony dream up this role for you or was it something you felt
5:27
passionate about and then wanted to bring in? How did that relationship begin?
5:32
My previous symphony, the Chattanooga Symphony,
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I had the same position of concertmaster,
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but I was doing this anyway and had tried a number of different projects.
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And so that was appealing to the Wichita Symphony and their executive director
5:46
talked and we came up with creating an actual position for this.
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And we've really expanded the opportunities and really put a focus
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on why this is important and being able to capture the data of
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how many new people are coming, what kind of experience are they having...
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So just breaking down the barriers, building the bridges,
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and making everybody feel comfortable, feeling welcome,
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feeling like they belong, not just like they're fitting in,
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but they actually feel like they belong in the arts and that their opinions
6:19
matter. And that kind of empathy,
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just engaging on that kind of level, just empowers the audience.
6:28
And they know when they're being listened to,
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they know when they're being included.
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And I think we've got a really good system going at the Wichita Symphony for
6:39
building with sincerity.
6:41
Yeah,
6:42
it feels like there's a lot of active listening and hospitality towards guests
6:47
that you're bringing in, actually listening and hearing what they have to say.
6:51
Exactly.
6:52
I think that takes a whole team as well. I think many arts organizations,
6:56
the onsite engagement lands squarely on the marketing team.
7:01
What are some of the benefits of involving more voices,
7:04
specifically artistic voices?
7:06
Right. You're right.
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The artistic voices have the experience on the art side.
7:11
We are the ones that have the passion.
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We've spent years learning the symphonies,
7:17
learning the concert repertoire. We are very familiar.
7:21
I think involving artists with the participation of audience and getting
7:25
conversations going helps create a landscape that is kind of a shared
7:30
experience where it's just not one sided,
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but also informing the musicians, the artists, to listen too.
7:37
Because we're asking them to listen to our music,
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but we need to listen to their response to our music. It's a conversation.
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And then adding marketing into that absolutely helps craft a brand,
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helps craft a succinct message and keeps everybody kind of going in the same
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direction.
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So as concertmaster,
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do you feel better positioned in some ways to guide newcomers through the art?
8:01
I do. I think it's because it, it's a platform kind of seat.
8:05
It's a leadership.
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I'm second face of the orchestra right after the music director,
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and I'm not just putting in bowings,
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the bow direction up or down for the section, which is a choreography,
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if you will, for the orchestra. I'm not just telling my section,
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you're too loud, you're too quiet. We can play this this way.
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I'm looking at the audience, I'm looking within the audience.
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I'm inviting them into our world.
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And so being a liaison actively helps me do
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the concert master job as well as the audience engagement job.
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And that is by choice. Not everybody's comfortable with that.
8:43
And you've helped implement several on-site engagement tactics.
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Can you walk us through some of your favorites?
8:49
Yes, there have been many.
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I first started doing food metaphors, food and drink metaphors.
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We would have a wine tasting at one function,
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I think this was before I came to Wichita, where we were coming up with
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what does this wine taste like and what music pairs well with it?
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And using terminology that fits both the wine world and the music world.
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You want it to be smooth and mellow or really crisp
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and sparkling.
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Those words work in the music world just as well as the wine world.
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And to pair these with wines and having the wines being tasted while the music
9:30
was being played helps people find their own language of enjoyment,
9:34
their own way of discovering,
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allowing their curiosity to manifest a little bit more naturally than "Here is
9:42
how to enjoy a piece of music.
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And this is what you need to know." I think getting to food and the wine and
9:50
even coffee metaphors helps expand. So that's something we've started doing.
9:56
We've created cocktails to go with certain themes,
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and it doesn't always have to be theme-based,
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but it just could be one idea that can spark. For instance,
10:07
I'll tell you what I've got coming up.
10:08
We're going to be performing the Mahler Symphony Number One.
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Within that, Mahler quotes some cuckoos, some birds,
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and he references a field, a meadow of birds singing.
10:21
And that's cool. But I thought,
10:24
wouldn't it be fun to gather a bunch of people and have a bird expert walk us
10:29
through a nature preserve and look at birds.
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We don't have to necessarily talk about Mahler's piece from top to bottom and
10:37
the significance of the first and the second movement,
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and let's put ourselves in Mahler's shoes and walk through that meadow and feel
10:45
and hear the birds and just have a little bit of friendship built in.
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And then say, by the way, we're going to be playing something similar to this.
10:53
Mahler was inspired by what you just heard basically. So those kinds of things.
10:58
Awesome.
10:59
And what sort of feedback did you receive from audiences about these engagement
11:03
initiatives?
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They loved it because it's open to our musicians,
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our audience, our staff, our board.
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And I think having all of those stakeholders have a beer, have a wine,
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share over a burger...
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It's important to experience the concert again through other people's eyes,
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but just getting to share the stories and the perspectives gives a 360 degree
11:27
view of that one concert.
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And I think that when you don't have that communication afterwards,
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you're missing a huge opportunity.
11:35
I've definitely changed how I view films. Like,
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my wife and I used to-in New York, we used to walk to the cinema,
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watch something and then walk back and it was a half hour walk each way.
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And every so often we'd stop for a drink somewhere.
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And I remember there was one film, the Green Knight,
11:50
where I saw it and I didn't think that much of it. And then on the walk home,
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by the time I'd walked home,
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I completely changed how I viewed it because we've discussed it.
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You are sort of re-experiencing it with other people after you sort of
12:04
tear it apart and chat through it.
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I think that's exactly it. And if an orchestra has a second concert,
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it gives a chance to say, hey, I want to hear this again.
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And then you can have another ticket.
12:17
And funny story about that violin concerto that I mentioned earlier:
12:21
the audience engagement from that
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on the second day,
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that sold more than the first day because people wanted to see it and experience
12:29
it again because afterwards they all talked with each other and said, oh,
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I love this part. This reminded me of this and this sounded like that.
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And it just kind of gives a chance to open the door to experience a piece of art
12:42
again, but with a different perspective.
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Do you have a sense of whether these efforts have grown the symphony's number of
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new attendees? If so,
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do they typically return for more than one performance per season?
12:54
I don't have the hard data on that,
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but my perception is I just look at the social networks of friends that I've
13:01
created and they're bringing their friends in and they're being a mouthpiece and
13:05
saying, hey, we're going to the symphony.
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So they create a social network where they invite people and then it
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expands after that. But I don't have,
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"We've increased our tickets by 20%." But I'm seeing the social networks expand.
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That's what excites me.
13:20
Yeah, that sense of community reminds me... I do a lot of improv comedy,
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as I've mentioned before on the podcast.
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And the theaters that are always most successful have a bar
13:32
associated with them or an area where people can hang out and chat after the
13:37
show. And as improvisers, we love to tear apart our own performance,
13:40
as I'm sure classical music also has as well, where you go deep into it,
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but also you can chat with the audience and bring people in.
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Like an oyster knife almost. Just opening it up for people,
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something that can seem quite dense and intimidating.
13:58
I think it is very intimidating. And like you say,
14:01
just opening up just a crack and inviting people in on their
14:05
terms, not our terms.
14:07
But I think shoving all the information all at once at the
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same time is exhausting.
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And it's intimidating and nobody wants to feel stupid.
14:17
They don't want to feel dumb.
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They don't want to feel like they're not welcome because there are so many
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avenues into enjoying the art.
14:24
And that's what I've kind of centered my whole life around.
14:34
Going back to the wine metaphor,
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you've actually written about the similarities between classical music and the
14:40
wine industry before.
14:43
What are some of the big lessons we can borrow from that industry for elevating
14:46
the audience's experience of classical music?
14:49
Well, I think the book that I read that inspired this was by Bianca
14:54
Bosker. The book is called Cork Dork,
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and she's a journalist who takes,
15:01
she just drops everything to become a wine expert,
15:04
to just take you through the whole journey. And as I was reading this,
15:07
it's struck me what a metaphor our two industries are.
15:11
We're selling expensive luxury items,
15:15
and you don't need wine. You don't need to go to the orchestra.
15:18
I'm going to argue that you might need to later, but you don't need it.
15:23
There's a lot of snobbish and stereotypical
15:27
things associated with both the wine industry and the orchestra industry.
15:31
A lot of jargon, words that make it sound extra
15:36
snobby. Both disappear after they've been enjoyed.
15:40
You sip the wine, it's gone. You go to a concert after it's done, it's gone.
15:45
Wow. I love that point. I've never thought about that before,
15:48
how they're both ephemeral in nature. They disappear after you've enjoyed them.
15:53
That's such a great metaphor. I love that.
15:54
Yeah, exactly.
15:57
And both offer something that's enjoyable and can offer a way for people
16:02
to get together and have community and have social networks through these
16:06
things.
16:09
But where the wine industry is different from where the orchestra industry is
16:13
currently is, they've done more data research,
16:16
they've done more consumer testing,
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and the blog that you're referencing was called the Merlott Effect.
16:24
And I got a little bit of flack from people because I went through the Yellow
16:28
Tail Winery as an example of how they did some data testing
16:33
and consumer blind taste testing. And people said, oh,
16:37
but that's not real wine. I'm like, you're missing the point.
16:40
You're missing the point.
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So they mix some certain grapes and it doesn't count as real wine in the
16:46
true wine enthusiast's mind,
16:49
but that's exactly the point that we have to struggle with in the orchestra
16:53
world. And so both,
16:55
if you want to try to find-this is a terrible metaphor,
16:58
but one could almost argue that the pops material for orchestras could
17:03
be considered the Yellow Tail of the wine industry.
17:07
But that's a gateway in, and all you do is like what you just said,
17:10
you just get an opening.
17:12
There might be something on that pops program that makes somebody curious,
17:16
and if they feel curious enough and welcome to fit in, to feel a belonging,
17:21
they're going to go check out the Mahler Symphony, the Hindemith Symphony. And
17:26
it's just finding that taste.
17:29
And let's talk about the importance of closing the loop with audiences,
17:33
not just inviting them to see a show,
17:35
but creating that feedback loop that really involves them in the artistic
17:39
experience.
17:40
Yeah, I think typically we've kind of come to this business,
17:44
the orchestra business,
17:45
as we're going to advertise and then present the concert and then invite you to
17:49
the next one. And we seem so confident about
17:55
knowing that Beethoven will sell a house out. Really? How?
18:00
Maybe just from past ticket sales,
18:01
but are we missing something else by not talking to somebody?
18:04
So right now, traditionally,
18:07
audiences aren't really invited to have a voice, but it's their experience.
18:11
And if you look at companies like Amazon, I mean, as soon as you buy something,
18:16
they're like, how'd you like the thing you've just bought?
18:18
And then you're invited to leave five stars or a comment.
18:21
We don't really allow access for that in this industry,
18:25
and I think we're missing a great opportunity.
18:29
So post-concert talkbacks and after-concert hangs,
18:33
for those that want to stick around. Surveys are another
18:38
thing.
18:39
People can get bogged down with email surveys and they might not be fun,
18:43
but I played with one orchestra and they had in the front lobby,
18:47
it was super simple, just a big piece of sheet paper,
18:52
and it had the three pieces on the program and the composers,
18:57
and all you had to do was pick your two favorites just by putting an X.
19:02
It was very simple and kids were invited to do that as well.
19:05
So you could just kind of see the favorite piece.
19:08
And I like that because that gives an audience an immediate chance to say,
19:12
here's how I felt. My opinion matters. I love that.
19:16
And how can closing the loop help inform future marketing decisions and
19:20
programming choices?
19:21
I think that the biggest thing is the audience knows they're being heard,
19:25
but when you share that because of the reaction we've gotten from the
19:30
audience, we're programming a Philip Glass Symphony,
19:33
that kind of gives a little bit of social proof that we didn't
19:39
choose this, but our audience did,
19:40
and we are happy to present it for you and with you.
19:44
And closing that loop by allowing them to share their opinions
19:49
helps them promote, ultimately,
19:51
because then the audience can say to their neighbors or to the people in church,
19:56
"Hey, they're going to be doing this Philip Glass Symphony,
19:59
something I'm familiar with." And to see that validates an
20:04
opinion.
20:05
And it gives stakes almost in the future programming, right?
20:09
If you recommend something and then the programming reflects that,
20:13
you kind of feel like, oh, I made that happen.
20:16
And audiences are different from city to city, state to state.
20:20
So what may work in one city will probably not work in the other.
20:24
And that's where I also think that the industry can get a little flawed
20:28
is, oh, they sold out playing a Mahler Nine,
20:32
we should do a Mahler Nine, assuming that it'll sell out.
20:35
And that doesn't really inform that you've been listening to your audience
20:38
because it could be the Janáček Sinfonietta
20:44
that sells your house out because you already have a relationship.
20:48
But it also helps reassure trust with an audience.
20:51
And that's something that we really, really do in Wichita Symphony.
20:55
It's a partnership with our music director, Daniel Hege, and myself,
21:00
is we listen to the audience, we program with them,
21:04
and then they feel they are heard.
21:06
And that trust is pretty automatic now, so that when we put on something,
21:11
the audience knows it is with them in mind. With and for them.
21:22
Arts organizations are still struggling to recover from the financial effects of
21:26
the pandemic, which means budgets are especially tight.
21:30
How would you respond to department heads and executive directors who question
21:34
the ROI of on-site engagement?
21:37
It's really hard to get an ROI-return on
21:41
investment-on engagement,
21:43
like a post-concert hang or a special recital,
21:48
wine pairing kind of thing.
21:51
You can't really track that that wine pairing recital is going to influence
21:55
directly the final concert of the season.
22:00
But what it does is it builds relationships long-term and builds trust
22:04
long-term. And I think that you start to feel [that]. But it should,
22:09
audience engagement projects should never be, oh,
22:13
we are really coming up against hard times.
22:16
We need to do more audience engagement and expect it to turn around in two or
22:19
three months.
22:22
My nearly 10 years with Chattanooga Symphony,
22:25
before I switched over to Wichita,
22:28
it took about six years to really develop the relationships,
22:31
to really get to know the people and to make them feel welcome and hear what
22:34
they wanted, too.
22:36
Certain situations in that city would not work in Wichita and vice versa.
22:40
And so finding that rhythm,
22:43
it's not an overnight thing and it won't happen in a matter of months.
22:47
Yeah, absolutely. It makes me think of,
22:50
we often think about returning to the mission and not being completely focused
22:54
on ROI because they kind of feed into each other sometimes.
22:58
Yeah, they absolutely should. I think when you start to lose the mission,
23:01
when you start to panic about finances,
23:05
that's when you need to just step on the brakes and go, why are we doing this?
23:09
Yes.
23:10
And if you are sincere with your mission, sincere with your purpose of,
23:15
why are we doing this? Well, we're presenting an art to an audience. Why?
23:19
Because they need it. Why?
23:20
Because maybe they need to escape their lives for two hours or maybe they need
23:24
to be challenged. Why? The next why is, are we listening to them?
23:30
To what they're not saying because they're not comfortable? They may say,
23:34
"Can you play Beethoven Five? I guarantee you're going to sell a house out.
23:37
My whole family will come because that is what they know." But finding ways,
23:41
and this goes back to the wine tasting,
23:43
finding ways of sampling different kinds of music and making people feel
23:47
intelligent about why they're listening to this, why they like that,
23:51
and to let them come to their own conclusions.
23:53
I think that different results would start to manifest.
23:57
Yeah,
23:58
that deeper listening reminds me of notes on writing.
24:03
There's a concept of what's the note underneath the note that you get?
24:07
Listen to the note they're saying and take that first level of, yeah,
24:11
they didn't like this bit,
24:12
but what they're really trying to say underneath the note.
24:15
And that deeper listening is just about engaging more with that audience and
24:19
understanding the audience even more.
24:21
Exactly. Exactly to the point.
24:24
And this is why I like the post-concert hangs so much to close the loop,
24:29
because very often we'll have a new piece of music on the front.
24:33
We just had a concert this past weekend in Wichita where we played a piece by
24:36
Nokuthula [Ngwenyama]. Brand new piece, gorgeous.
24:40
And we played Hindemith Symphony,
24:41
and then we ended with Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto.
24:46
The feedback from that concert-while the Rachmaninoff piano concerto was like,
24:50
oh my goodness, the soloist, she's amazing,
24:53
it's one of my favorite pieces-the feedback about the first piece was
24:57
unbelievable. People wanted to hear that again and again.
25:00
They want to hear more from Nokuthula. And now knowing that,
25:04
that gives them a name that they can remember, a piece that they can remember,
25:08
something they're familiar with that they weren't necessarily familiar with
25:10
before. So hopefully orchestras will say,
25:15
this is the kind of music people want but they can't articulate because they are
25:18
only familiar with the comfort level of saying Beethoven and Mozart,
25:23
because that's what our society has pumped into them.
25:26
But finding what they're not saying, you find that out at the concert,
25:31
the post-concert hangs,
25:32
and then deeply listening to them changes how you program and changes how you
25:36
involve your audiences.
25:38
Yes. Yeah. Let's talk about applause in classical music,
25:43
you feel pretty passionately about the audience shaming that can happen when
25:47
new attendees don't know the customs of performances,
25:51
like not clapping between movements.
25:54
This is something that I definitely feel. I think the first time,
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one of the first bits of classical music I ever saw, was Elgar.
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And in between the movements,
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I automatically went to clap because I'm primed to clap anyway.
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I am the sort of weirdo who, I quite like it when we clap when the plane lands.
26:16
It's my worst trait.
26:18
But why is this audience on audience shaming so harmful?
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Oh my gosh, this is the hill.... one of the many hills I'll probably die on.
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Audience on audience shaming. We, meaning the industry,
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can make people feel as comfortable as possible,
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but it is the fellow audience members who dictate the final...
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whether they're comfortable or not.
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And we currently are doing nothing to help that situation.
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And by nothing,
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I mean we don't really stand in front of the orchestra before a concert and say,
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the next piece is four movements-or four segments or four chapters or in
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four parts,
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because what is a movement?-and what we
27:02
would like... the intention with the X, Y,
27:05
Z symphony is to have a cohesive sound with
27:10
the tension of the silence.
27:12
Or have the person stand in front of the orchestra before the concert and
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say, clap when you feel like it, you have our permission,
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our blessing.
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If you feel the joy or you feel that we really rocked it out of the park,
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we want you to express that. This is your experience.
27:33
That informs the regulars who are the traditionalists that we are
27:37
seeing. There's going to be applause, or we're trying to make an agreement
27:43
that eliminates the shame and the feedback.
27:47
And the opposite point of that is people will say,
27:52
well, it's written in the program.
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And usually in the program it's small and it's kind of in the back when to
27:59
clap, what to wear, those kind of things. Nobody reads the program, nobody.
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And if you're reading the program, you're not listening to the music.
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And if you're reading the program and you got there a half hour before the
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concert,
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then you're not having a good time enjoying the lobby drinks and that kind of
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thing.
28:15
And then if you want to also argue the traditionalists that say no clapping
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between movements, in Mozart's time,
28:22
they were clapping between movements and within the movements.
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He wrote his father and said, "They loved this violin passage so much,
28:29
they were clapping within the movement.".
28:31
As a performer,
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do you find yourself getting surprised by people's reactions?
28:37
Or when people do clap, is that kind of thrilling? Or how is that experience?
28:42
I'm surprised now when they don't clap.
28:45
It kind of is a little bit heartbreaking after putting out this amazing sense
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of energy after the first segment, movement, chapter,
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whatever you want to call it. And having that silence is just like,
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"But we just did a great thing. We just performed this amazing thing.
29:01
And you're sitting there like, nothing?" It just feels so incongruent.
29:07
One of my favorite examples are like the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto or the
29:11
Piano Concerto, the first movement,
29:13
you want to just rocket out of your seat and go,
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"Bravo!" because it ends on such a
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thrilling note, thrilling dynamic.
29:23
And I think it's not normal just to
29:26
repress. You're paying to have a feeling.
29:29
And then when you're not invited to express joy,
29:33
that's just weird. And the polite applause in between...
29:38
Somebody might feel that they want to clap in between,
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and then the shushing that happens is embarrassing.
29:44
So I'm trying to prevent that.
29:45
This is something that I'm wanting to address so that we don't shame people
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who are going to be future ticket buyers.
29:52
We want people to feel welcome on their own terms.
29:54
And reiterate that there are no rules, just traditions.
29:58
There's nothing worse than getting shushed.
30:00
It feels just like a mixture of embarrassment and anger
30:05
and shame of being shushed.
30:08
It's totally shaming.
30:09
And why would you want to come back to re-experience that feeling?
30:13
I wouldn't, nobody wants to feel that. It's a horrible feeling.
30:24
Our listeners work across a wide spectrum of artistic genres,
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from classical music to contemporary theaters to film houses,
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and it seems like all of them are struggling to break down barriers for their
30:34
art forms so that more people can enjoy what they do.
30:38
What's your advice for how arts administrators in other genres can similarly
30:42
break down barriers for new audiences to enjoy their art?
30:46
I think it is finding the similarities and then appreciating the differences.
30:51
And that goes on to just one-on-one basis or just small groups
30:56
and hopefully let that transfer out. For example,
31:00
I'm going to bring back the birdwalk I've got planned.
31:03
You're building a language that puts everybody on the same level,
31:08
and when you start to put everybody on the same level,
31:10
then you can start to introduce, by the way,
31:13
if you liked listening to that bird, you might listen to our Mahler Symphony.
31:17
Or if you liked tasting this wine,
31:20
you're really going to love the complex nature of this piece.
31:24
It eliminates your experience level as knowing a Bach
31:28
piece or an experience level here or there.
31:32
And I think finding that little vulnerability together helps actually
31:37
build a path forward into the art, into the genre.
31:41
If you could broadcast one message to executive directors, leadership teams,
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staff, and boards of a thousand arts organizations, what would that be?
31:50
I think as arts administrators and as artists-and this goes for everybody on
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the other side of the stage, not the audience,
31:58
but people who are very familiar with our art-I think find the most
32:02
uncomfortable thing that you don't know anything about. And go to it.
32:06
And I'll give you an example.
32:08
When we first moved to Chicago a number of years ago,
32:12
I'd never been to a hockey game, and I thought, this is uncomfortable.
32:16
I am a classical, classically trained musician. Tell you what,
32:20
if you stand up in a hockey game while the puck is in play,
32:23
you'll get chastised. I learned that the hard way.
32:29
There are rules.
32:31
And I think feeling that opens your mind and makes you look into your
32:35
own art and your own experience differently.
32:39
So I would encourage everybody to go to something that they are not comfortable
32:42
with, with open eyes and an open heart and feel that vulnerability,
32:47
feel the shame.
32:48
I'd also encourage everybody to go through their own ticket buying process.
32:52
Know what it's like to buy a ticket,
32:54
know what it's like to park in the paid parking, not the employee parking,
32:58
but the paid parking.
32:59
Know what it's like to not understand where you're going to sit and just
33:04
feel it in the most vulnerable way.
33:06
And the best way to feel vulnerable is to find something that you're not
33:10
interested in and do it because it really opens your mind very
33:14
fast.
33:16
I love that answer. It reminds me of,
33:18
I was just getting into American football and my wife and I,
33:22
we went to an Eagles game because her family's from Philadelphia,
33:26
and it was the Eagles versus the Jets.
33:28
We were there a little late and we saw them kick off,
33:33
and they did really well in returning it. We were cheering, we were cheering...
33:37
We were cheering for the wrong team.
33:38
And we were surrounded by Eagles fans who were looking at us in our brand new
33:42
Eagles hoodies thinking, what the heck are you cheering about like that?
33:46
It was the most embarrassing moment I've ever felt as an audience
33:51
member.
33:52
I think that's a really valuable tool to have though,
33:55
because you can flip that easily into somebody who just clapped in the wrong
33:58
place, and you can flip that into somebody who maybe came in jeans
34:04
that have holes in them.
34:06
But I think it really opens up your mind to the possibilities of feeling
34:11
that I'm out of place. I don't fit,
34:13
and I am not belonging at all. So yeah,
34:17
you are not selling tickets to yourself. You're not marketing to yourself.
34:22
I keep seeing orchestras that seem to be focusing on the
34:26
orchestra, focusing on the maestro,
34:28
focusing on the guest artist in the print copy, in the video copy,
34:33
but you never see the audience enjoying the thing.
34:38
I think that's the biggest reminder that we have to have is there are people
34:41
that are different than us that will still enjoy the art we present.
34:44
So we need to not look at, how would I buy a ticket? But,
34:48
how are 50 other very different people who might be hockey fans or football fans
34:53
or Led Zeppelin fans, how are they going to be marketed to?
34:58
How are they going to be buying a ticket?
35:02
That's marvelous. I love that. That's such a great message.
35:05
Thank you so much for joining us, Holly.
35:07
Thank you for having me.
35:17
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye.
35:19
This episode was edited and produced by Karen McConarty and co-written by Karen
35:23
McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss.
35:25
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CI to Eye's designers and video editors,
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and all work together to create CI's digital content.
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Our music is by whoisuzo. If you enjoyed today's episode,
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please take a moment to rate us or leave a review.
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