Latest / All Bodies. All Foods. / Renfrew Conference Mini-Series Episode 1: Asian Identified University Students and Eating Disorders
Transcript
- 0:01Hey,
- 0:01I'm Sam.
- 0:02Hi,
- 0:02I'm Ashley.
- 0:04And you're listening to all bodies All Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
- 0:09We want to create a space for all bodies to come together authentically and purposefully to discuss various areas that impact us on a cultural and relational level.
- 0:19We believe that all bodies and all foods are welcome.
- 0:23We would love for you to join us on this journey.
- 0:26Let's learn together.
- 0:29The college environment can be a very challenging time for any young adult.
- 0:33It's not uncommon for a life transition like this to become the triggering event for a clinical eating disorder.
- 0:40But minority students may be even more vulnerable to mental health concerns as they navigate compounding stressors barriers and unique risk factors.
- 0:49On top of it,
- 0:50all like Asian identified students experiencing microaggressions,
- 0:54minority stress or cult of stress.
- 0:58Despite the fact that eating disorders can happen to any race or ethnicity,
- 1:03minorities continue to be underrepresented in research and in the development of assessment tools and therapeutic modalities as mental health providers.
- 1:13We know the importance of cultural humility,
- 1:16which is why continuing education on specific populations is so important at the 2023 ren for conference.
- 1:23We invited three presenters from the University of Southern California Student Health Center,
- 1:29Doctor Danny Gonzalez CD,
- 1:31Tiffany,
- 1:32Nakamura L PC CL,
- 1:34Mh C and Jojo Lee L PC CNCC to share their training with us titled Within Our Reach,
- 1:42navigating Eating disorders with Asian identified university students.
- 1:46Join us for the highlights.
- 1:52All right,
- 1:53everyone.
- 1:53Welcome back.
- 1:55Um So now we are joined by three of our presenters today,
- 2:00Jojo Lee,
- 2:01a licensed professional clinical counselor in California,
- 2:05and a national certified counselor,
- 2:07Dr Danny Gonzalez,
- 2:09the licensed clinical psychologist and the Associate Director of Eating Disorders within the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Southern California.
- 2:18And Tiffany Nakamura is a dual licensed professional clinical counselor and a national certified counselor.
- 2:27Um I also wanted to say this to Tiffany for nearly a decade.
- 2:30You were the senior Eating Disorder clinician and researcher at the UC San Diego Eating Disorder Treatment Center,
- 2:37right?
- 2:38Yes.
- 2:38A a one of is there?
- 2:42Yes.
- 2:43Yeah.
- 2:44Well,
- 2:44thank you all so much for joining us today.
- 2:46And I'm just curious,
- 2:47how's the conference been for you so far?
- 2:50Oh,
- 2:50wonderful.
- 2:51Yeah.
- 2:52Yeah.
- 2:54Um Other than the jet lag a little bit right,
- 2:57the West coast jet lag.
- 2:59Very excited to be here.
- 3:00Thank you all so much for joining us.
- 3:02Good.
- 3:03We appreciate you being speakers at this conference.
- 3:07And one of the unfortunate things about the conference is that you can't go to every single workshop like that's the one downside.
- 3:14So one of the reasons why we wanted to make this episode was if someone couldn't attend your workshop,
- 3:19they could learn maybe a little from this episode.
- 3:22So you have a workshop titled Within Our Reach,
- 3:27Navigating Eating Disorders with Asian identified university students.
- 3:31And if you're an eating disorder professional,
- 3:32you probably know college students are at elevated risk period of transition and change.
- 3:38There's a lot going on.
- 3:40What is unique about the experience of an Asian identified student.
- 3:46I can speak a little bit about that is that first of all,
- 3:49um we are representing two different university here.
- 3:53So there is University of Southern California and University of California,
- 3:58San Diego.
- 3:59So within this two university,
- 4:01we actually have a pretty large populations of Asian students um within our own um university.
- 4:08And it makes it really unique is because the Asian populations,
- 4:13as you all probably know,
- 4:15it's very diverse even within the population.
- 4:18And there is no one cookie cutter way of working with it.
- 4:24And at the same time,
- 4:25that does not mean that we shouldn't bring awareness of how to work with this population because of its uniqueness.
- 4:33And because of that,
- 4:34um we want to kind of like bring this to the table and let our colleagues who learn,
- 4:40what does it look like to work with such diverse populations in the college setting?
- 4:47In one app,
- 4:49I'll expand on that too.
- 4:50Um Working with college students at university.
- 4:53It may be the first opportunity to get evidence based treatment or have accessibility to working with specialized providers.
- 5:00And so,
- 5:00one of the beauties of each of our work working in higher Ed is that not only do we get to educate students but hear from them what's been a barrier or maybe work through some things that from a pathological standpoint may have not been observed in their home,
- 5:11countries of origin um and also help them navigate if they're going to be returning home for winter break or summer break and how to have a blend of both healthy and effective ways of approaching eating and the relationship with their bodies.
- 5:26I want to echo both of my colleagues.
- 5:29I don't necessarily anything more to add as far as the uniqueness of this population.
- 5:34Um But I do think uh I,
- 5:37I do think the importance of having cultural humility with this population ultimately is the thing we aim to bring to the conversation with evidence based care and treatment of eating disorders within this population.
- 5:53Um Given all the barriers that exist to reaching um reaching Asian students,
- 5:59Asian identified students um in the college setting is kind of the the take home point here.
- 6:05What are those barriers?
- 6:08I think?
- 6:09Well,
- 6:09as we talk about evidence based treatment,
- 6:11you know,
- 6:11it's no secret that not a lot of treatments have been uniquely studied within different subcultures and populations.
- 6:17And so part of our lens is working with students where we may be the experts in the treatment,
- 6:23the experts in the field,
- 6:24but we need to learn how to modify it for the unique needs of the populations we serve.
- 6:28Um And I think some of the things that we see particularly to Los Angeles,
- 6:33San Diego is that there's not a lot of providers in the field who come from the same origins of our students.
- 6:39And so being able to navigate those experiences with them,
- 6:42um talk about the diversity of our own food and what types of food are available on campus for some students.
- 6:47Sometimes uh navigating a dining hall can be very daunting.
- 6:51Um There may be food beliefs that they come with from their country of origin or foods that are more familiar for them and being in a different country,
- 6:58those aren't as readily available for them.
- 7:00So those can be barriers as far as the food.
- 7:03And then I think with different idealized forms of beauty that we hope to cover in our presentation too,
- 7:08we know that um as expansive as Asian identities can be,
- 7:12so are their cultures and um beauty ideals.
- 7:15And so we hope to cover that and know that not one stands for them all.
- 7:19And um recognizing that,
- 7:21how do you make sense of that while being in western schools where there may be different beauty ideals or different forms of those pressures?
- 7:29I think one thing to add is the the acculturation piece.
- 7:33Exactly.
- 7:33Just that when working with this population,
- 7:37being able to kind of delineate the nuances between the different cultures,
- 7:42to be able to um hold a space where they can feel OK,
- 7:49to share more about what they might feel a lot of shame around um coming from one culture to a different one.
- 7:55and then understanding some of the sort of communication familial dynamics that are kind of unique to their cultures,
- 8:01to their,
- 8:02to their family of origin,
- 8:04to their dynamics just within their immediate families.
- 8:07Um can be all sort of influencing factors in what they struggle with,
- 8:12with an eating disorder,
- 8:13with body image,
- 8:14with their relationship with food.
- 8:15So um I think all of those things are barriers to,
- 8:20to really good care and I want to add on to it is that one of the barrier is depends on exactly what cultish piece an international student is going to present very differently than a first generation immigrant to a third generation immigrant family.
- 8:37Um even navigating within that differences,
- 8:40like how family going to be involved with it.
- 8:43Our presentations also touch based on Asian values.
- 8:46It depends on the individual,
- 8:48how much they carry that Asian values when they move forward in the higher education setting,
- 8:55even with choosing their own major,
- 8:57like,
- 8:57is it because they like to be in this major or is because there isn't family influence to it?
- 9:02And that's just one important piece.
- 9:05And we're talking about another very important piece which is medication,
- 9:10often time within the Asian culture.
- 9:12Um They don't want to take westernized medication um because there is a particular stigma to it and,
- 9:20and it's very important when we want to involve family members.
- 9:23Are they going to be how,
- 9:25how effective and how,
- 9:27how can we make family members and loved one?
- 9:29Um involvement become a more effective way versus become the barrier,
- 9:34right?
- 9:35Our students treatment,
- 9:36right?
- 9:37Jojo,
- 9:37that I was actually going to ask specifically about that.
- 9:41And I'm,
- 9:41what I'm hearing is that there,
- 9:43there are so many nuances within each individual student that you work with,
- 9:48right?
- 9:48So this isn't necessarily going to be a generalized answer for each student,
- 9:52but how one I'm,
- 9:55I'm so thankful that all three of you exist on these campuses to support our students.
- 10:01Um and how do we then navigate working within the family system or what are some of the tools that,
- 10:11that you all encourage the students to take home with them,
- 10:15right?
- 10:15When they're going back for those breaks and things like that?
- 10:19Well,
- 10:20I want to speak to sometimes before they're able to go back or work with their families.
- 10:24We've got to help them navigate the landscape of college and that means working with other campus departments like O SAS if it's seeking accommodations,
- 10:32if it's international living situation.
- 10:35Um As we're talking about a barrier I was reminded of,
- 10:38you know,
- 10:38sometimes students can't go to higher levels of care of treatment because of their visa status.
- 10:43And it's helpful if they have a provider who's informed,
- 10:45willing to document and advocate for them in these college campuses.
- 10:49If it's a financial barrier,
- 10:51you know,
- 10:51having someone who's versed in the eating disorder world too,
- 10:54knowing how to look for scholarships or financial support,
- 10:57um how to look for more additional meal swipes or basic needs to as part is crucial to their treatment to get better.
- 11:04Um So I wanted to talk about those resources first,
- 11:07before we talked about family and uh external caregivers help as well.
- 11:12I think a lot of psychoeducation becomes extremely important um for family members and loved one because um we even within our conversations,
- 11:23we talk about um there,
- 11:25there's a lot of like intergenerational trauma.
- 11:28Um when we work with in the Asian populations,
- 11:30Asian American populations um depends on where they're at in their rations.
- 11:36Um They might already be carrying a lot of their own biases about their relationship with food or the eating culture itself.
- 11:45So when as a provider,
- 11:48sometimes we have to be very mindful of what am I introducing to the student and their family members?
- 11:54Am I just bring the westernized lens of telling you that like,
- 11:58hey,
- 11:59this is what you need to do.
- 12:00This is the medications that we recommend.
- 12:02These are the food that you should follow on your meal plan versus being like,
- 12:07look,
- 12:08this is what your normal diet looks like.
- 12:10And let's talk about how can we incorporate this in a healthier way so that we're not becoming the barrier as being a provider?
- 12:20So a lot of them is a little bit like a collaborative work with family members understanding where they're coming from.
- 12:26And I,
- 12:26and I think psycho education is such a huge,
- 12:29huge piece when working with this population is kind of what Danny mentioned.
- 12:33Like this is a population,
- 12:35maybe this is the first time ever receiving treatment at all.
- 12:42And if we're lucky enough,
- 12:43we actually get to have a call with our parents and explain to them what we've been doing.
- 12:47Um And I also think a little bit too that we often talk about is looking at what the recommendations are made in the Western States and modifying that,
- 12:56right.
- 12:56So we typically talk about three meals and two snacks doesn't really exist outside of the United States.
- 13:01So how are we blending that?
- 13:02Are we talking about,
- 13:03you know,
- 13:035 to 6 small meals a day?
- 13:05Does that sound doable when you're traveling?
- 13:07How can you still listen to those hunger fullness cues or maybe mechanically eat while you're going out and about?
- 13:13Um and then just preparing them for comments that they may already know they're going to experience when they return home.
- 13:18You know,
- 13:18it's a very real fear of becoming American fed and as me as a non identified Asian provider,
- 13:24I think it's kind of fun to play around with that because they're fearful of saying it.
- 13:27Are you waiting for,
- 13:28you know,
- 13:29your parents to make this comment?
- 13:30And um and how can we navigate some comments that are going to be made to you and still actively attend to your recovery?
- 13:38So,
- 13:39you know,
- 13:40we're at the conference,
- 13:42um we're surrounded by professionals.
- 13:45Um hopefully they're,
- 13:46you know,
- 13:47gonna take all of this information back.
- 13:49Um you know,
- 13:51apply it where it needs to be applied.
- 13:53What from each of you,
- 13:55what would be like a key takeaway you would want,
- 14:00I know it's kind of a big one.
- 14:01I see smile and joo what would be like something that you want them to understand and take away if they could only take away one thing top question,
- 14:15we like to ask the question.
- 14:18I think it's a loaded question.
- 14:20Um And I think that that's a great question.
- 14:23So uh I think you're talking about for clinicians,
- 14:27what they could take away,
- 14:28right?
- 14:29Um When working with this particular population,
- 14:32I would,
- 14:33I would encourage cultural humility.
- 14:36So coming into conversations really extra mindful of our own biases um and to be very open and receptive to the students or the,
- 14:49the the,
- 14:50yeah,
- 14:50the students sort of ex experience.
- 14:54Um and to not just jump to sort of assumptions that this is pathological in nature or not,
- 15:00and that's not just,
- 15:02you know,
- 15:03in the eating realm that is a family dynamic,
- 15:06that is a cultural practice,
- 15:07that's a religious belief.
- 15:09So whatever feels may be a little bit uncomfortable from a clinician standpoint,
- 15:15especially if you don't share uh cultural experience or you are unaware of,
- 15:19you know,
- 15:19what is practiced in the,
- 15:20in the culture um to be more exploratory and curious as opposed to assumptive and,
- 15:26and,
- 15:27you know,
- 15:27think that this is wrong.
- 15:29Um That would be my kind of,
- 15:31I think one thing to take away.
- 15:33Well,
- 15:34I love that because I'm so glad you brought up cultural humility.
- 15:38We have a whole episode on the difference between cultural competence and cultural humility and really that cultural competence,
- 15:45it's not like something you ever,
- 15:48it's not like an event that you arrive at,
- 15:50you know,
- 15:50cultural humility is just ongoing forever,
- 15:54even for us.
- 15:55I mean,
- 15:55as someone that identifies with a minoritized population,
- 15:58it's still an ongoing learning process.
- 16:01And as someone who's second generation,
- 16:03it's,
- 16:03you know,
- 16:03an acculturation process of,
- 16:05of my own journey.
- 16:07Um that's constantly influencing,
- 16:09you know,
- 16:09my perceptions and beliefs.
- 16:10So,
- 16:12yeah,
- 16:13absolutely.
- 16:15I have two things I'll say today,
- 16:16I'll give Jojo some more time to think.
- 16:18Um I think for um loved ones,
- 16:24caretakers,
- 16:25you know,
- 16:26friends of folks who are struggling,
- 16:28it's helpful and providers,
- 16:30it's helpful to know that how the student is performing academically is not a good insight into how they're performing internally with their eating disorder.
- 16:38And that's often something I hear amongst my providers at my institution,
- 16:42like,
- 16:42oh,
- 16:42well,
- 16:42they're still doing really well or they haven't,
- 16:44like,
- 16:44experienced those quote unquote consequences yet.
- 16:47And I'd love for providers to be more mindful that academic performance does not equate to medical and physical well being.
- 16:54And,
- 16:55um,
- 16:55the other thing I'd like for providers just to take away from this conference or this podcast is just knowing too that as we work with students and international students as well,
- 17:04it may not be their first treatment episode.
- 17:06And I know a lot of times providers are really motivated to have the best approach,
- 17:12the best level of care be as effective.
- 17:14And if our students aren't ready because this is a fully new experience to them,
- 17:18just creating that positive experience that they can return when things get worse or when they're starting to make those insights of this isn't working for me.
- 17:26So I hope providers take that with them as well.
- 17:28Thank you.
- 17:30I don't even know what to add on what Tiffany and Danny mentioned because to me,
- 17:37I really like what Tiffany mentioned about the cultural humility.
- 17:41And I interpreted that as flexibility which like all practitioner providers we thrive to be,
- 17:50how to be more flexible and be where the clients at at that point.
- 17:57Because this is the populations,
- 18:00they're young,
- 18:01they are trying to absorb all information,
- 18:04they can in a pretty highly competitive environment.
- 18:09So one thing that I I want to emphasize is that let,
- 18:17let's,
- 18:17let's let's create a space that like we can all make a mistake.
- 18:23And and the goal here is not about we have to find the perfect strategy in the first session.
- 18:33It is about OK,
- 18:36I don't know everything about your culture because you are the expert of your own experience.
- 18:42How about let's work this together and creating a space where you can call me out and practitioner can also be like,
- 18:53please let me know if I make something that is not accurate or accurately reflecting on what you're sharing when it comes to working in college student and specifically Asian Americans.
- 19:07My personal experience is that it's a lot of coaching about self advocacy because this is not something that in within the culture that is not something that we were taught.
- 19:19When speaking from personal experience,
- 19:22I was taught to be like,
- 19:24be humble.
- 19:25Like,
- 19:25don't be the spotlight.
- 19:27So that to me is one of very important piece when it comes to eating disorder treatment is like,
- 19:34let's not take every single thing your therapist say,
- 19:38your doctor say as like this is the golden standard.
- 19:43Let's advocate for yourself and we can,
- 19:46we can walk through this together.
- 19:48So I feel like that's where the flexibility kicks in.
- 19:53That's uh I'm,
- 19:55I love that.
- 19:56Thank you all so much for sharing and,
- 19:57and I'm just thinking with your students in particular Jojo and just hearing you say that that peace on flexibility and the peace on um I'm I'm just thinking of,
- 20:11of the practitioners here like practicing the cultural humility but like not imposing their expectation of what healing or growth or recovery looks like,
- 20:23right?
- 20:24Like that partnership is so,
- 20:27so anyway,
- 20:28thank you all so much.
- 20:30It's been so lovely.
- 20:32Um Meeting you and having you on the show.
- 20:34We'd love to invite you back for a full episode.
- 20:37So we'll be in touch with that.
- 20:38But thank you so much for coming and talking with us today.
- 20:42Thank you for having us.
- 20:48Thank you for listening with us today on All Bodies,
- 20:51all Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
- 20:55We're looking forward to you joining us next time as we continue these conversations.