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Episode #168: Unmasking the Secret PR Operation that Targets Americans · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: This network actually targets and discredits both citizens and scientists, you know, researchers.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, basically, this is taking our tax dollars and they're funding an operation that attacks and criticizes those who are opposed to certain powerful industries.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everybody to another episode of Beyond Labels, a podcast with yours truly, Joel Salaton, the farmer, and Dr.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, our favorite researcher.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to delve into some kind of corruption that Cena's uncovered.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we give a lot of um effort here in trying to find truth, what's going on.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and those those um tensions happen obviously on a large scale, you know, not just between Cena and I or you and your family members, but on on big scales, grand scales, you know, between global interests and those sorts of things.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there are numerous uh efforts to derail information, to propagandize information coming out.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's one thing when one company whatever battles another company, but it's pretty um upsetting when you see that there are actually public funds being used to discredit truth and uh you know and and develop a narrative that we know is questionable.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um none of us, none of us bothers, you know, to you know arguing in the private sector.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: That that's that's healthy, that's all good.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: But when you when the government puts its uh finger on the scales, that's when we kind of have a bad taste in our mouth.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh Cena, I'm ready to hear what you're finding and what you've uncovered in this space just lately.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Joel.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So this one is a little more upsetting than previous examples of corruption, and we're gonna get into why in just a quick minute.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: So today I'm bringing this report to you that was uncovered by a group of news organizations, including Lighthouse Reports, uh, The Guardian, the new Um Lede Le Monde, Africa Uncensored, and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, and other international partners.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: They basically teamed up to do this investigation.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what they found is um it's I want to say that it's shocking, but at this point, Joel, I don't think anything could really shock you and I or our listeners, but there is, like I said, something concerning about it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um let me get into all that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what what we have what they have revealed is that there's a private social network that isn't really about, you know, what we think of social networks are about.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not about like reconnecting with your old high school friends or sharing cute dog videos, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: This network actually targets and discredits both citizens and scientists, you know, researchers.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, basically, this is taking our tax dollars and they're funding an operation that attacks and criticizes those who are opposed to certain powerful industries.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the story begins with a kind of, I would say, shadowy initiative that was run by a public relations firm called vFluence.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, vFluence, it's a public relations firm.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: This firm was founded by a man named Jay Byrne.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was that name might sound familiar to some people, Jay Byrne.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: He was a an executive at Monsanto.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So he created this secret social network, and that network network is called bonus eventus.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So bonus eventus.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially, this secret network is a highly sophisticated closed platform, so it's invitation only.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is used to track, profile, and undermine people who people in and organizations who criticize the use of pesticides and genetically modified organisms or GMOs.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is not just a small, inconspicuous corner of the internet.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Bonus Eventus is a robust, well-coordinated effort.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It involves industry executives, government officials, and PR strategists.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all banding together to safeguard the corporate interests.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the first question I asked was well, who are they targeting?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're targeting journalists, environmental groups, scientists, and even everyday people like you and me who are daring to question the safety of pesticides and GMOs.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: The network, according to this investigation, the network has detailed dossiers on over 3,000 individuals and organizations.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And now these aren't just professional profiles that they're creating.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking about personal data, like their home addresses, their phone numbers, names of family members.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so when you dig into it, you'll see some of the individual names that have been targeted.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of them is the New York Times food writer Mark Bittman.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So his profile on this secret uh platform um includes where he lives, the details of two marriages, his personal hobbies, and this extensive criticism um section.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Pollan, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: One of your friends, Joel, the author of Omniforce, Omnivore's Dilemma, he's profiled on it too.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: His profile even includes the names of his parents, his siblings, his son, his brother-in-law.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when when um this investigation reached out to Pollen to ask, like what his response is, this is what he said.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I quote, it's one thing to have an industry come after you after publishing a critical article.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: This happens all the time in journalism.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: But to have your own government pay for it is outrageous.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: These are my tax dollars at work, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So keep in mind, our tax dollars are funding this, are partly funding this.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So how uh seeing how okay, so so this guy, um Jay Byrne from Mont, he was former uh executive at Monsanto, he founded this.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So where's where's the government money coming from?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is this is this uh do they get grants?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are they are they an agency?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: What um I I haven't heard you kind of give the where's where's the funding?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: The uh obviously there's there's public funding going into this.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's that what's that uh avenue?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so in 2020, the USDA, so the United States Department of Agriculture, they contracted with what's called a strategic communication firm, and that was called the White House Writers Group.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: They contracted with them for up to$4.9 million, and it was part of a USDA strategy to undermine Europe's farm to fork, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Farm to fork in Europe is an environmental policy that was aiming to reduce pesticide use by 50% by 2030.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, what this investigation is saying is that the USDA was strategizing to undermine that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so they contracted with this strategic communication firm um called the White House Writers Group.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now, V V Fluence, that PR firm that that former Monsanto exec founded, they were to provide quote data services as part of that White House Writers Group contract that also included access to bonus eventas, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: That platform that I'm talking about.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that was according to records that were obtained from the USDA.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: The records don't specify how the money was divided out, it just specifies that quantity and what what those main um tasks were that it was used for.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um the contract was planned to last until 2025.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and the USDA, when contacted, said that they're reviewing the agreement.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, I should say that the managing director of the White House Writers Group, uh named Clark Judge, that managing director said that his organization um thought that the bonus eventas was an online community for scholars, journalists, and the like who share perspectives and information on agriculture topics.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it sounds like they're kind of pleading ignorance in this.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: They just didn't really know what that whole organization was about, you know.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, maybe they didn't, right?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact still remains that tax dollars went to these organizations um through these contracts with the USDA.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Burns has said that there's nothing unethical or illegal or inappropriate that's been that's happening with this.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, you have do you remember um Austin Um Freck?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: He was the um cur the co-chair of Biden's camp, um Biden campaigns agricultural antitrust policy committee.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know he's just a household name, you know.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, yeah, we we had we had lunch together last week.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just the other day, you didn't invite me.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So he actually has come out, and this was a statement that he made.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I should say he has recently authored a book about the concentration of power in the food system.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he has said this.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think most people realize the degree of corporate espionage and USDA's complicity with it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: The coordination here, the fact that the USDA is part of this is really scary.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what's what they're saying is that um Byrne used this secretive platform to advise US officials in an attempt to sabotage opposition um to products that are created by the largest agrochemical companies.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and they to and they have our taxpayer dollars.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now let me let me go back and say um you know, Cena, uh let me just I I just got back from Switzerland.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just did a uh presentation in Switzerland, and um it's it's fascinating.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think Americans realize how strong the the green movement is in the in the European Union, uh partly because in Europe farms are far more embedded in the population.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, a lot of times farmers actually live in a village, they don't actually live at their farm.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the village is is uh adjoins the the farm adjoins the village, the farmer lives in the village, and the farm is you know a mile or two away and goes out to his farm every day.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a there's a much a much more uh highly integrated uh rural rural urban interface in Europe.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that's one of the reasons why the environmental um regulatory movement is so so strong in Europe.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was interesting to me, of course, I I didn't speak at a at a you know a regular uh conventional industrial meeting.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was at I was at a the conference is called the soil to soul symposium.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and they they say soul instead of gut because they don't like to use the word gut.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it was basically you know, soil to gut uh symposium, a connection of soil to your microbiome.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in and so so these were folks, you know, that were uh in in whatever I would say our generally thought thought process, permaculturalists and all that, sustainable ag folks, regenerative ag folks, and um, and it was interesting, they did not they did not know that Bayer, the German company Bayer, had bought Monsanto.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was really interesting for me to explain to them to these Europeans who think they are so far ahead of the Americans in you know in regenerative uh uh capacity, that you know that evil company Monsanto, it's yours now.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: You bought it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was funny.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was funny to uh you know to make them aware of that.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they kind of they kind of quit um, it kind of took a little bit of wind out of their sails.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, uh if and and they also told me that pretty much the way Europe goes, the US follows, you know, 10 or 15 years behind.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So with this wave, I mean, um I I don't want to get off a rabbit trail of all the the agriculture and and chemical politics going on in the EU, but I'm just gonna say it's it's huge.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's amazing to be there and and see the the level of I mean farmers here who think you know the environmental regulations are are hard.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know the the trade-off in Europe is that um that the farmers get roughly 60% of their income comes from from government subsidies.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll talk about that in another podcast.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But um my my point here is that when you that the my my um my flags went off when you said that this was an effort to try to reduce um the European that that Europe has this goal of reducing pesticides by 50% by 2030.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the impetus of this is to actually sabotage the European thing to derail it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly, again, I was just there over the weekend three days ago.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, these Europeans reported to me.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now these are friendly to us, to our side, okay?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and they said to me that suddenly there are all these scientific studies coming out saying glyphosate is not cancerous, there's no uh problems with pesticides, no problems with herbicides.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I was on the ground listening to these European um you know non-chemical farmers explaining that suddenly the research that kept all this stuff out of their system all these years is suddenly they're watching it just change in the last two years completely before their eyes.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So this this effort, this platform that we're discussing on today's podcast, uh the cur the that the USDA is actually funding money into a uh a network sabotaging this European effort to get um agenda-driven scientific papers published into the European community to blunt the effort of the Greens who write who, at least so far in the last 15 years, have certainly had the upper political hand, and now it's being challenged in a way like they've never seen before, suddenly in the last two years.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if there's a connection.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I wonder.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how amazing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is see, this is God's perfect timing, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm I literally just found out about this over the weekend, and you were in an area where they are getting uh you're you're having a real life example of how this is affecting people on the ground.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, and let's get into this.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it because it's not just this platform, isn't just affecting the policies in Europe, it's affecting the policies in America, it's affecting the policies in Africa and essentially world right, because like you said, you know, one's the leader and the other one starts to follow.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so so let's dig into a little more about what they're doing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then, and again, I haven't told you the worst part about this, okay, in my opinion.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they also have tried to thwart the um the progress in Africa.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's back up just one second.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um let me tell you a couple more examples of what they did to individuals, and then we'll go toward this organization example.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I it's because it's I want to really drive this point home because what they're doing is terrifying on many levels, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you can imagine you're one of these people that's being targeted.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let me give you an example.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was a London-based research professor who spoke out against um the chemicals and the GMO crops.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: His profile on this secret platform includes deeply personal details of his life.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, for instance, it includes that his wife um committed suicide and that so she died after discovering that he had had an extramarital affair.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: She had struggled for 23 years with depression and schizophrenia.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you see, these are not professional profiles they're creating to kind of attack.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's one thing if a scientist comes out, makes a statement about a chemical, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you're now questioning the scientist um background, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Their education.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are they qualified to make these conclusions about this chemical?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of research do they do?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, are there holes in that research or flaws in that research?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But they're creating profiles on these deeply personal levels.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a wonder what are they doing with this information, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: You and I both know what they may very well be doing with the information because we've heard examples from the past of trying to um silence people, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we have more examples of that too, like in a future fluoride podcast, we're gonna do.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's also examples of two UN X UN experts who were profiled.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one of them, one of them basically in 2017 called for a treaty to strictly regulate the dangerous pesticides, saying that it was a global rights concern.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she cited research showing that these pesticides can cause cancer, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and other um health problems.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now she's on this on this platform.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one researcher is on this platform just because this person signed a petition against the against GMOs.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you can sign a petition and end up on this platform.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: They used these profiles according to the investigation to generate smear campaigns, underline the credibility of these critics and scientists, and to basically drown out the opposing narrative.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the court records, emails, and other documents that were obtained in this investigation reported that all of these efforts were aimed at minimizing the perceived dangers of pesticides in GMOs, and in doing so, to undermine policy and by extension, undermine organic and alternative farming methods.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that was what was concluded upon this investigation for all these documents they have obtained.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the operation, we're gonna tie a little bit back into the funding here.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was financed in part by the US Agency for International Development, which is called USAID.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Our tax dollars.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is our tax dollars at work here.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um they this is a federal agency that's supposed to promote democratic values across the globe.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So can you see the irony here?
• 22:00
  unknown: Right.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's supposed to be promoting.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, I've had uh you I can't tell you how many people I've met and been at places around the world.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: USAID is essentially a um it it's a it's a funding, it's a it's it's a U.S.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: government funding mechanism, which of course is paid for by tax dollars, to spread industrial corporate chemical agriculture around the world.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's terrible that it's USAID.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it uh but yeah, um I I've I've met people who have been, for example, in Africa, who were the like the U, you know, the administrators of the USAID program, and then started seeing what it was being used for, and then you know left the organization uh because of how terrible it was.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so so whenever you see a program funded by USAID, um, don't don't feel good to be in a that that as an American you're helping somebody uh less privileged.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is absolutely a um a sabotage of indigenous um capacity around the world to project uh uh corporate industrial chemical influence where it where it's um uh where it's lacking right now.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this is, I mean, you're spot on.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is another example of how they're doing exactly that.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're silencing any type of dissent and protecting the corporate interests.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So here's where Africa comes into play.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just one example.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So USAID, according to these, to the investigation, worked with vFluence to sideline a major event in Africa that was going to focus on dangers of pesticides in developing um countries.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, they had reputable people coming to this event, you know, like reputable scientists.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what happened was vFluence started strategizing through their network, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like alerting everybody that this is coming to Africa.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And according to the records, there was a note sent saying that they needed to quote, neutralize the negative messaging of the conference.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: So just a couple days later, the funding for the conference was pooled.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Two sponsors withdrew, withdrew the support for the conference, and now Burns, of course, has denied having any role in the withdrawal of this funding and having any involvement in it whatsoever.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just one example of how they're thwarting things, allegedly, I should say.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So so um so this was kind of surprising to me that on this platform there are actual government officials.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just Burns and you know, Monsanto um executives, or it's a complete, it's it's a cabal.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a completely it is, it's like a good old boy's corporate, yeah, government government, corporate government cabal.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there's more than 30 government officials on the membership list, and according to the investigation, most of those are from the USDA.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So here's where it gets more disturbing for me.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So bonus eventas allegedly can dodge the Freedom of Information Act requests because it's a privately managed, you know, organization, and it doesn't technically fall under a government agency.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So any, let's say, communications or critical documents or strategies that are crafted within its walls may not actually be subject to the same transparency law as would apply to government records.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Which would also make it so we we can't really get a hold of what they're saying.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, now that's what they're saying in this investigation.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: That is their thought, is that it can subvert, they have found a way to escape from the Freedom of Information Act request.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we can't find out exactly what they're doing, which also means that anybody who's being targeted seems like they have very little recourse of what's happened.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um one other connection I want to make is you know, I mentioned that the mastermind behind Bonus Inventas is uh Jay Byrne.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so not only was he Monsanto's director of corporate communications, right?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the director of corporate communications, um, if I recall correctly, when GMOs were first hitting the market, right?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I imagine part of his job was to help the get the public to accept them.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so he was uh an executive at Monsanto, and then um he he later, of course, founded vInfluence to defend the genetically modified crops and the pesticides.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some of his early clients were Monsanto and Singenta, and by the way, he used to work for USAID.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about the revolving door of influence, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so he actually he has multiple lawsuits against him, like he and or the company.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh last I checked, he's currently facing allegations of suppressing information about health risks, um, linking paraquat to Parkinson's disease.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, Joel, we did a podcast about chlormaquat, the newest kid on the block in terms of pesticides.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you said, oh, this sounds like paraquat, like it's a cousin of paraquat.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: So here now we have paraquat entering the stage that yeah, it's been on the market for how long now?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it has um studies tying it to Parkinson's disease.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, allegedly, Burns has helped Singenta suppress that information that it was tied to Parkinson's disease.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now there's lawsuits about it claiming that they have suppressed this and hidden the truth from consumers.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, yeah, this is not this is just more of the same.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's um you know, but they're getting more clever, right?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now they've striking FOIA.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: So what they're saying is since this is a private organization, all all FOIA can do is is say they received X number of dollars from you know from the public from USDA.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's what FOIA can reveal.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: But FOIA can't reveal what those dollars are actually being spent for within the private platform.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now, can they uh now this is not my area of expertise, so I'm asking you for help here.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Could somebody sue um you know burns and like bonus eventas and have that come out in in discovery in court?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do they can they sue them and and have to make those documents public?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can they sue for disclosure?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, to disclose their actual expenditures as a recipient of government money, of taxpayer money.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that alongside the communication, so that we know like what are they doing?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean uh what is the extent of like are they going out and intimidating people?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have this information on it.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: What are they exactly doing?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are they intimidating them so that people cow down and and that suppresses the information?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can they somebody possibly sue to get bring that information to light?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good, that's a good question.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, it's it it's why it's why the uh centers for you know CDC funded Wu An in China, you know, to create it's it's an arm's length.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: What it is, it it gets the uh the nefarious agenda an arm's length beyond the capacity to either litigate or FOIA or investigate, you know, privately investigate uh the outfit because it's arm's length.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, what you get is is um is a you know, I don't know, I don't know from the you know from the the front agency and and it it just embroils everything in a in a big uh web of of obscurity is what happens.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so so what happens is you know, unless you're an absolutely pit bull tenacious uh investigator, you you finally just give up in the you know in in in in the in the whatever in the web of of um of confusion.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and I know that it uh so when I last checked, the news organizations who are bringing us this investigation, they said that just five days before this study was published, and this study was just published, right?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: This this investigation was just brought to light.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So just five days before that, um after reporters had asked Burns and others for comment, the there's members um on bonus eventas that that are saying that they were alerted to the upcoming investigative reporting project.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: So so the they alerted the people on bonus eventus that this was coming out, and they provided those members with an article describing this investigation, what they're calling this project, as quote, an ethical train wreck with no concept of journalistic integrity.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's still it's still an active uh portal, right?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's still an active platform that they're using.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they're they're denying any, you know, they're saying that it's just about uh it's like totally not legit, you know, don't listen to it, look the other way.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's nothing happening here.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there's there's nothing, nothing to see here.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing to see here.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, that's right.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, that's the that's the normal um normal path.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think you know what we're you know, what we're trying to just help people understand is that at the very highest level of national and international conversation, the highest level you can imagine, this kind of nefarious agenda and sabotage of um uh of research that questions the chemical agenda or a chemical narrative um, you know, is being sabotaged, um thwarted, denied, um, you know, uh with even possible, I mean, why else would you collect all this individual information if it's not for extortion?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, um, and so yeah, it's um it's shocking, but it's not shocking.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's how I felt all weekend.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm trying to grapple with how do I actually feel about this?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and I thought, uh, I'm not really surprised.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, but you know, the new part was them getting around the FOIA.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if if they have legitimately gotten around the FOIA, then that's something I haven't heard before.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is, I'm wondering, you know, I haven't seen a lot of organizations pick this story up yet.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping that they do, right?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: But who knows who their funding is?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, you and I are funded by the people.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're quite privileged.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, audience, for funding this.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that we can bring stories like this to you and not be afraid to bring it or have it suppressed, you know.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it does make me wonder like, is it going to get out there?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: When are people gonna realize that there is a problem that's happening?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the reasons why more people aren't aware is because of suppression.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: But another reason is a different kind of suppression where online the stories are being suppressed through changing algorithms.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another thing that I've been researching lately is that if somebody so may say somebody hears our podcast and they're like, oh, well, okay, let me Google that.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll Google like um paraquat and Parkinson's, you'll see all of this, what I'm gonna call propaganda come up that's like, there's no harm, nothing's uh, you know, these people are anti-science.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they they like to you are anti-science or anti-progress, right?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when we're the ones actually following the science, they're suppressing the science.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: But these things will pop up because in a lot of cases, now I'm learning, they've changed the algorithm.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they are directing what you are seeing on these online platforms, so on these search engines.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: So they're limiting what you can actually view.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this is true because I've even gone to try to find some of my old articles.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have to dig and dig, even if I put my name in there and the name of the article, I have to dig to try to find it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I can't even find it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's another way that they're censoring and suppressing information.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: They've done this to you and I on this podcast where you can't really find us anymore, and they don't it doesn't pop up as as readily and as high up in the list as it used to.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just another way that they're suppressing.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what's what's unfortunate about that is that I think if you're not somebody who is already questioning it, you're probably not going to find the information, you know, because of these two things working in tandem.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the only the only one that I can think of quickly who could give you an answer on what you could litigate in this space would be uh RFK Jr.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Robert R.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Kenny Jr.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is the kind of space that he has lived in, you know, for most of his career.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he would be able to give, but we don't have him on uh speed dial.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we Oh I know.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you gotta work on that, Joel.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Get him on the show so we can answer these questions.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like viewers want to know.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, gotta know.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay, we're out of time.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything um that this is a it's it's a disheartening, but um, you know, uh to be to be um knowledgeable is to be armed.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's the first step to understanding uh what's going on and to increase our our uh uh our questioning of the whatever whatever the narrative is, you know, to increase the the questioning of it.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, maybe so.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: My last thing is maybe one thing we can do to help is um, because I know people like to see the studies.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe as we're uncovering some of these studies that have been suppressed, you know, or hidden from the based on the algorithms, um, we maybe we can post them, like share them with our audience, you know.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let us know if you want us to do that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, reach out and let us know.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, throw us a line, type it in the comment section.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know if you want us to start sharing some of this suppressed research so you have it at hand.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so Joel, do you have a community question to round us out with?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, do I have a question?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I get I guess uh a question today uh would be do you know anybody who has worked with USAID um who became disenfranchised with USAID?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be interesting to know if we've got somebody out there because I mean look, I mean it's it's a little bit like the Peace Corps.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean I run into people, yeah, I was you know in a project USAID was, you know, dah, dah, dah, around the world.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that they that everything they do is horrible, but the but but the you know the tenor, the the basic thrust of it is uh is very much just to predict project project the US worldview on the rest of the world.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's for sure.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh might be interesting to know if anybody's if anybody has personally encountered or has a friend or family member who uh was there and uh and their their thoughts on USAID.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because they're in they're in the press all the time as you know, very positive, you know, wonderful U.S.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: uh kind of outreach.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, in my view, they're they're part of why the world hates us.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it's a positive way to end the show.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: The world hates us.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, Cena, you know, you don't have to travel a lot now around the world, and our our the the US friends or what we would call U.S.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: allies are are becoming harder and harder to find around the world.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: We are we are we have projected, I mean, and and and this is the oh goodness, another rabbit trail.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is the this is the tendency of empires, right?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is to overreach their grasp, then they alienate people, and then gradually their old allies begin dropping off, off, off, off, and finally the empire collapses uh due to you know lack of lack of allies, lack of friends.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so so here we are.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: So be friendly to your friends and don't have nefarious agendas.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um let's let's rebuild let's rebuild it from local up.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh forget the global agenda, just uh rebuild it from the local up.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, thanks for another um letting us join you, invade your space, and and touch your lives with another another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Scene and I are deeply appreciative of your continued patronage and your encouragement.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you like these podcasts, please share them with a friend and uh let us let us um keep bringing them to you.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: We look forward to seeing you next week.