Latest / From the Coach's Mouth / Episode 52: High School Softball, Bad Advice Coaches Give

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Episode 52: High School Softball, Bad Advice Coaches Give · From the Coach's Mouth

0:00
I would rather you you be on JV and pitch than be on varsity and
0:04
maybe get 10 innings all year. And I think that's important
0:08
because again, to develop, yeah, to develop, you've got to be in
0:12
the circle. You've got to experience those
0:13
live, live at bats, those live batters and and I would much
0:17
rather have you on the JV team for a year or two, you know,
0:21
getting some solid innings down there and experience at that
0:24
level. Welcome to the From the Coach's
0:48
Mouth podcast with your host, Jay Bolden and Ken Kraus.
1:08
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the From the Coach's Mouth
1:10
podcast. This is Ken Kraus here with Jay
1:14
Bolden. Jay, how are we doing this
1:15
morning? Doing pretty good, Ken.
1:17
We got back from Gulf Shores there a couple days ago.
1:21
The weather down there was beautiful softball was up and
1:24
down. Those are those are good things.
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But yeah, looking forward here to getting into and see what my
1:29
kids do in high school. Some of the kids I have already
1:32
and and you I'm sure too Illinois.
1:34
I already have some kids playing high school ball like games.
1:37
Yeah, yeah. I had a girl play a game a
1:40
couple of days ago. Her team got smoked.
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I was glad that she's a pitcher, but she wasn't pitching that
1:46
game. And I was thinking, I'm glad
1:47
that wasn't her doing that. Good.
1:49
How are other things going? Everything else good with you.
1:52
Yeah, everything else is fine. Again, lessons going on.
1:55
It's been a little bit lighter this last couple of weeks as
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everybody's trying to figure out their schedules.
2:01
And I think, you know, with the weather in the northern part of
2:04
the United States being a little bit up and down on what Monday,
2:08
I think we had 70° and then yesterday it was snowing.
2:12
So, you know, it's, it's a battle for gym space and for
2:16
fields and everything else. So, you know, people come in,
2:20
they come out, they have to bail at the last minute because their
2:23
practice got switched. So it's been pretty interesting.
2:26
Yeah, the weather has been absolutely crazy.
2:28
Those storms that came through the other night too were were
2:31
absolutely nuts. Hopefully you didn't get any of
2:33
those bad storms. We we got lucky and it split
2:36
from us. But did you get any damage with
2:38
those storms? No, we didn't get any damage.
2:40
I I know that, you know, it's a little bit further South of us.
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There was a lot of problems, but now for us it was just a lot of
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rain. There was some lightning and
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Thunder, you know, noise and fury, but not much else after
2:51
that. Yeah.
2:53
So let's let's get into some topics today.
2:55
Ken, I want to I want to talk a little bit about let's start
2:58
with the high school ball first, since I mean, it's upon us.
3:02
Indiana, I think just wrapped up their their tryouts and all that
3:06
stuff this week or still going this week.
3:09
And I know Illinois has already had tryouts and is already
3:11
playing. So let's give some advice out to
3:14
some people, especially even to the kids.
3:16
Maybe there's some some players that are listening to this
3:18
podcast where there's parents. But let's talk about some things
3:21
that I think can help some people.
3:23
So if you don't mind, Ken, I'm going to start on this one, if
3:26
that's OK. No, he'll go right ahead.
3:28
So I think one of the things is, you know, a lot of times you're
3:32
trying out and you want to make that varsity team, but coach
3:35
sometimes put you on on the JV team.
3:38
So I know that's your goal, but I think you have to work through
3:42
that a little bit, especially if you're on the younger side, if
3:44
you're a freshman or a sophomore.
3:46
And even if you're playing high travel, high level travel ball,
3:50
sometimes you know you, it's good for you to spend a couple
3:53
years or or a year down at the JV level and then work your way
3:57
up to that varsity spot. So Ken, do you have any advice
4:00
for people or or do you have any, any players that you've had
4:03
that have have had to deal with some of that?
4:05
Yeah, actually I have. There's one team where a couple
4:09
of my best pitchers, to be honest with you, they play high
4:11
level travel ball. They throw really well.
4:14
They can move the ball while they throw hard.
4:16
They're on the JV team, and the only reason they're on the JV
4:19
team is that their coach doesn't believe in bringing freshmen up.
4:22
They seem to accept that. They understand that it's not
4:25
anything personal, but that happens sometimes.
4:28
You know, there are things that you can't control.
4:31
You can't control, you know, those kinds of attitudes of
4:33
those kind of thought patterns and all that.
4:35
The key is to get in there and just keep playing your game.
4:39
Go ahead and do the best you can.
4:41
Give everything you can. Maybe take it as an opportunity.
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If you've got some kids on your team where maybe they don't have
4:48
that much experience and they're playing, show some leadership,
4:52
help them get better, work with them.
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There are all kinds of things you can do that will help
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develop you as a player as well. I know that there's an old thing
5:00
about when one teaches to learn. That's really an important
5:05
concept, and I think that that's something that those younger
5:07
players can do. How about you, Jay?
5:09
Yeah, I think also too, Ken, it's important that it, if
5:11
you're a pitcher or you know, you're a pitcher parent, you
5:15
know, I understand. I would, I would much rather, I
5:17
always say this to to the kids that I work with, even if you're
5:20
on JVI, would rather you you be on JV and pitch then be on
5:25
varsity and maybe get 10 innings all year.
5:28
And I think that's important because again, to develop, yeah,
5:31
to develop, you've got to be in the circle.
5:34
You've got to experience those live live at bats, those live
5:36
batters. And I would much rather have you
5:39
on the JV team for a year or two, you know, getting some
5:43
solid innings down there and experience at that level before,
5:46
you know, they bring you up to varsity.
5:48
And I think that's important. You know, a lot of people like,
5:50
well, they want to be on varsity so they go up.
5:52
I've had kids that want to go up on varsity and they get barely
5:54
any innings and then it's like, okay, we didn't see any
5:57
improvements here. And, and I think it's just
5:59
always a continue to improve. What do you what do you think
6:01
about that, Ken? Yeah, I actually agree with that
6:03
100%. In fact, my younger daughter
6:06
Kim, when she was a sophomore, they wanted to bring her up to
6:08
varsity and she asked to stay on JV because she knew that the
6:12
varsity pitcher that they had, and those were in the days that
6:16
they only would pitch one pitcher.
6:18
For the most part, they knew that the girl they had there was
6:20
really good and she wasn't going to get any circle time.
6:24
And rather than sit on the bench for two months and just get cold
6:27
and kind of lose her skills, she asked if she could stay on the
6:30
JV team instead and pitch for them.
6:32
And she pitched every day and it was a much better experience for
6:35
her. So I think, yeah, you're right,
6:37
Jay, that's so key. And it's not just for pitchers,
6:40
but for anybody. If you know it's better to be an
6:43
everyday player on JV the rather than being a bench warmer on the
6:49
varsity team, set your ego aside and do what's best for you as a
6:53
player. Yeah, You know, Ken, I, I want
6:55
to tell a quick story here about when I was a varsity coach long
6:59
ago. So I and I, we're coming up on
7:01
our twenty year anniversary of us going downstate in Illinois
7:05
and placing in the in the top 4. But I want to tell a quick
7:08
story. I I had a freshman that year of
7:11
20 O 6 and she came in, she played for a very high level
7:15
travel organization and comes in and she's like, well, I'm like,
7:19
what positions do you play? You know, we were excited to
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have her. You know, we you know, we had
7:22
some a really good year before that.
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We were, you know, in the regionals and, and sectionals
7:27
and super sectionals. We are really looking forward to
7:30
that year. So she comes in so and, and she
7:32
could really help our team. She was a freshman.
7:33
She was definitely going to play at our level.
7:35
Again, I'm in a, you know, a small school.
7:37
So it's, it's pretty easy to get on varsity there, especially if
7:41
you're a, a high level travel ball player, right.
7:43
So anyway, you know, she comes up and, and we're meeting each
7:47
other and I'm like, so you know, what position do you play?
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And she's like, well, I just play first base like, oh, OK.
7:52
Well, listen, if you want to play first base and just get
7:55
reps at first base, I'm like, you know, I'm going to have to
7:57
keep you down on the JV level. However, you know, I have an
8:01
opening. All of these kids were coming
8:03
back. We had one opening and it was in
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the outfield and it was, it was center field and she was a
8:07
mobile kid. She could play center field, you
8:09
know, if she wanted to. And so I said here's here's
8:12
basically here's what's going to happen.
8:14
You know, you're either you can come up, we're going to bring on
8:17
varsity. But the person that's at first
8:19
base has been there. I'll get you some innings here
8:21
or there. So, you know, some games here or
8:23
there. I said, but I have a a opening
8:25
right now to be the starting lineup as a center fielder,
8:28
which we desperately need. And I said, so I'm gonna give
8:31
you a couple weeks. I want you to think about that.
8:33
I'm like, can you come back and get back to me?
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So she comes back and she's like, yeah, she's like, I'll,
8:37
I'd love to play center field. I said, here's here's how it
8:39
works here. That kid that's at first base
8:41
this year, she's going to be graduating at the end of this
8:43
year. That could be your next spot for
8:45
you the following year. But I really need the best 12
8:49
kids or 13 kids to be on this team so that we have a chance to
8:52
really do some damage this year. And so she bought in, bought
8:55
into the team. She played center field.
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We had a great year that year again.
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And so it was just, it was a really great experience.
9:02
And and yeah, I could remember every pitch going downstate with
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those kids. And, and that's the kind of kids
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that we or that's the kind of players that we really need.
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It's like, hey, coach, how whatever I can do to help,
9:12
taking out the selfishness. So I just wanted to share that
9:14
story with people that sometimes you have to do something to help
9:18
a high school team. That's not necessarily what you
9:20
do in the summer. Yeah, and that's true.
9:22
Not just in high school but also in college had a player that was
9:26
recruited as a catcher. And when she got there, they had
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a transfer that came in that the coach really liked.
9:32
They gave her a couple opportunities to hit.
9:35
She hit well for them when they needed it.
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And then one day they said here, you know, let's put you out in
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the outfield. And she played outfield in a
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little bit and travel ball a little bit in high school when
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she wasn't catching. And she goes out there in left
9:47
field and she just took the spot and that's where she played all
9:50
year long. But that wouldn't have happened.
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None of those opportunities would have come up if she was
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going to be, well, I'm a catcher.
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I don't want to try it. It's something new.
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I don't want to try a different position.
10:01
So it's, you know, it's important you you do what you
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can to help the team. You do what you can to help
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yourself by getting on the field.
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And then you let the rest of it sort itself out.
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Yeah, I, I couldn't agree with that more.
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And I hope that, you know, people that are listening
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understand that I think to me, high school ball is, is
10:18
important. Ken, are there kids that that
10:20
don't, you know, that don't need to do you need to play high
10:23
school ball to be recruited? No, but if you ask college
10:25
coaches, they want you to play high school ball because that
10:28
setting is going to be probably more realistic to what the
10:32
setting in is in college, right? You're going to have those six
10:36
days a week practices. You're going to have those
10:37
consistent practices, you know, after your classes or whatever
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that works in college. And that's what's going to be
10:43
like there too, you know, in high school, Whereas travel ball
10:47
is, you know, hey, you know, three days a week Max, maybe
10:50
you've got one day of hitting for two hours, one day of
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defense, you know, for two hours and then you come in on a
10:55
Saturday and do whatever. So you have days off in between
10:58
those practices in high school ball, you just don't have that
11:00
in college. You don't, you're practicing all
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the time. And so I think that experience
11:05
of high school ball is important because it's going to be what,
11:09
you know, it's going to to be more, more consistent to what
11:12
your college experience is going to be like.
11:14
Now as we know, the level is is is, is different.
11:18
Plus the fact that you're every game you play is guaranteed to
11:21
be at least A7 inning game unless there's you know, a
11:24
blowout or something. Whereas in travel ball these
11:28
days you know you get in four or five innings.
11:30
That's about it. Yeah.
11:31
I mean that's huge. You see, you know, some of these
11:34
travel ball games and they're, you know, 60 minute games, some
11:37
of them right and some of them are, are, are longer than that.
11:41
But like you said, you're going to play a full 7 inning game and
11:43
and you have to be able that's what you're going to get in
11:45
college as well too. So it's that's why playing high
11:48
school ball is important, right? I think just from the experience
11:52
of it too, is just is super important as well too.
11:55
Is it necessary for you to be recruited?
11:56
No, not really. But I still say it's it's an
11:59
opportunity for you to have a lot of pride and play with, you
12:03
know, for your community. And on top of that, Ken, I want
12:06
to say this too, it's also an opportunity for you to play with
12:09
your friends, the people you go to high school with, right?
12:12
Yeah. Compared to travel, travel ball,
12:14
you got kids from all over the place.
12:16
So what do you, what do you think about that?
12:18
Yeah, I think that, you know, that socialization part of it,
12:21
even if your team isn't very good, if you're a high level
12:24
travel ball player and you're surrounded by kids that really
12:26
don't play very well, it's still a good opportunity to get out
12:30
there. Now, the one exception I will
12:31
make is that there are definitely, just like in
12:34
anything else, there are some just unqualified coaches,
12:38
coaches who are psychologically bad for the kids.
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And if you're in that kind of a situation where you know truly
12:45
it's mentally stressful and it just isn't fun for you, then
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yeah, there's no reason to to put up with that.
12:52
You can you can find better things to do with your time.
12:55
But outside of that, yeah, playing high school ball I think
12:57
is a good opportunity to do something a little bit
13:00
different, see the sport from a different angle.
13:03
Maybe you're going to get into a role that you wouldn't normally
13:07
get onto with your travel ball team.
13:10
So lots of pluses there. Yeah.
13:12
And I do want to say something to Ken.
13:13
Those of you who are listening to Illinois, if you didn't make
13:17
the team, you didn't want to do like you didn't want to play
13:20
high school ball, right, or just didn't work out the way that you
13:23
thought it was going to be. You need to look because there
13:25
are spring teams in the state of Illinois or even if you're in
13:29
Indiana, right? You, you need to look it up.
13:31
There are spring teams. They put these teams together
13:34
and they have practices. I'm not sure if it's weekly, but
13:38
they also play games. And so on Sundays, I believe
13:41
it's Sundays or Saturdays, they go out and they play double
13:44
headers and they'll have like, kind of like, I think at the end
13:46
of the year, just a little bit of a tournament and that goes
13:49
through the time period of the high school ball.
13:52
So you can still go get your reps out there.
13:54
You can still play in competitive games, and I think
13:57
that's a good idea. So if you didn't make the team
13:59
or you didn't want to play for your high school, there are
14:02
opportunities. I know in Illinois, and they'll
14:04
even probably take Indiana kids or, you know, Wisconsin kids or
14:08
whatever. But look it up.
14:09
Just look for a spring softball team and you'll see it'll pop up
14:13
and there is a fee. But you know, you don't get any
14:15
fancy uniforms, right? But you get AI think it's like,
14:18
you know, a dry fit shirt with a number on the back and then they
14:22
just, you know, they have a red team, blue team, so on and so
14:24
forth. But it's the kids are playing
14:26
and they're getting those reps and they're playing in game
14:28
situations. So that's an opportunity for you
14:31
if it's out there. Yeah, and the same thing if
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you're an eighth grader playing with high school freshman.
14:36
So your team isn't really playing right now.
14:38
You had half freshman, half 8th graders.
14:41
There are teams out there that are looking for players that are
14:44
going to play some in the spring.
14:46
And so that's an opportunity for those girls as well.
14:49
And this isn't just in the Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana
14:52
area. I mean, this is all over the
14:53
place Now. I know places like Georgia, I
14:56
think that they play their high school ball in the fall.
14:59
So they're probably going full bore into travel ball right now.
15:02
So sorry to bore you with this when we're talking about high
15:05
school ball there, but it'll apply just as well in the fall.
15:09
Yeah, absolutely. So any other any other tips or
15:13
or feedback for people that are listening kind about high school
15:16
ball? I think just enjoy the
15:18
experience. You know, it's a kind of thing.
15:20
Sometimes when you're going through it, it's kind of rough
15:23
and you're thinking, oh man, this isn't what I wanted to do,
15:26
but you'll look back on it with fondness.
15:28
I think that, you know, the as with anything else, the bad
15:31
stuff kind of falls away and then the good stuff comes along
15:35
and that's what remains. Yeah, I'm just going to add one
15:38
more thing. Can I?
15:39
I would say this regardless of your position, regardless of
15:42
your playing time, right? Regardless of what you think,
15:45
just be a really great teammate, cheer other people on, right?
15:50
Get in, get involved with the team, have fun.
15:54
That's the number one and most important thing.
15:55
But really just be be involved, you know, be a great teammate.
16:00
Those are the most important things.
16:01
You know, if, if one of your teammates is down, pick them up.
16:03
You know, if somebody just hit a bomb, you know, high 5 them do
16:07
the things that you want to do, because I think that's the most
16:09
important lesson you can learn is that sometimes we have to
16:12
wait. But regardless of that, just be
16:13
a really great teammate. Yeah.
16:15
No, I totally agree with that. And I also think that if you if
16:19
you kind of, you know, if you're having some problems, you don't
16:21
like your coach, talk to some of your friends, you may find out
16:24
you've got a better coach than you thought.
16:26
Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of coaching, Ken, yeah,
16:29
let's let's switch gears a little, a little bit and let's
16:32
talk about some of the advice maybe you or I have been giving.
16:35
That has been the absolute worst advice you've ever gotten.
16:39
So now I'm going to have to lean on you here because my brain has
16:42
been working here for a while. But I'm going to, I'm going to
16:45
let you get us started if you're OK, so that way I can start
16:48
thinking and, and, and pull some of those out of the vault.
16:51
OK, well, this is 1. You know, as a pitcher's parent
16:54
that I never, I never did myself.
16:56
I always understood the stupidity of it.
16:59
But coaches that are telling their pitchers, so they're going
17:03
to put them in, they're going to pitch batting practice and the
17:07
the girls aren't hitting off of them.
17:09
So the coach says slow it down or just throw, you know,
17:13
fastballs over the middle. Maybe, you know, 80% fastballs.
17:16
Let the hitters hit it so they can feel better about themselves
17:19
and build some confidence. I, you know, my thought with
17:23
that always is OK. And then at what point are we
17:27
going to have the hitters purposely swing and miss so I
17:29
feel better about myself? Yeah, true.
17:35
Now I will, I will say this. That's a great one.
17:37
That's a great start, Ken. I will say this.
17:40
I am OK with them starting with a, what is it, AA12 count or a
17:44
21 count, something of that, because that still puts the
17:48
pitcher in into like, you know, softball IQ mode where they have
17:51
to figure out what pitch am I going to throw.
17:54
I'm going to add on to that too and say this is, this is that
17:59
I'm not making this up. But the pitcher only gets to
18:01
throw 2 pitches, Ken, They can either throw their curveball or
18:05
their change up, right? And so as a hitter, I mean, you
18:09
know, again, it's just, it's putting the pitcher in a
18:11
horrible spot, right? Like, you know, I, I'm fine with
18:15
them having a count, but I am not fine with you saying, OK,
18:18
well, you can only throw like your curveball and your change
18:20
up. Yeah, because the hitters are
18:22
going to figure that out. That just doesn't make sense.
18:24
So that's, that's some really bad stuff that I've that I've
18:28
seen. Let's keep going a little bit
18:30
with this. Do you have another one?
18:31
And I'll, I'll add on as we go. Actually not coming up with one
18:35
at this point. Have to cut this part out so.
18:40
That's fine. So I I have one the the always
18:46
bunting with a runner at first base with no outs advice was
18:49
horrible. Yes, right there are.
18:52
Now don't get me wrong, can there are times where I am going
18:55
to bunt with that runner on one right?
18:58
However, I don't feel that we should be doing that again
19:01
situationally. It depends a lot, but it also
19:04
depends on who's up to bat. It depends on who's at first
19:07
base. It depends all that.
19:09
But I've been told several times that you have to bunt when you
19:13
have a runner on first base. That's probably some of the
19:15
worst advice I've I've ever been given as as a coach.
19:18
Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, that drives me crazy.
19:20
The sacrifice, the automatic sacrifice bunt.
19:23
I don't understand that. And if you look at it, this
19:26
isn't just you and me, our feelings about it.
19:30
If you look at it statistically over a season, you're actually
19:34
reducing your chances of scoring.
19:36
The, you know, they've run the stats, they've run it for
19:38
baseball, they've run it for fast pitch softball.
19:40
At the college level, the high school level doesn't matter.
19:43
If you have a runner on 1st and nobody out, you have a 2% better
19:48
chance of scoring than you do with a runner on second and one
19:52
out. And that was a lot of that study
19:55
was done before the bats got so hot and the hitters got so good.
19:59
So you know, you're looking at it now.
20:00
It's probably even a bigger disparity when you're coming on
20:03
there. If you've got kids that can hit,
20:05
let them hit. Yeah, absolutely.
20:08
You got some of them you got to let swing away.
20:10
And again, if we've got speed on one, we could swipe a base too,
20:12
right? Like that's, that's, that's part
20:14
of it. Now we have a runner in scoring
20:15
position and that person can then swing away instead of then
20:18
bunting them to 3rd, right. So I think that's, that's some
20:21
advice that that I, that I've been given that's been bad.
20:24
Some of the other stuff, there's another one that I have here
20:26
too, which it's more along the lines of the management of the
20:30
team when I was a varsity coach. And that was more along the
20:34
lines of that everybody has to play a certain amount of
20:38
Indians. And this is more geared towards
20:39
high school or junior, junior high.
20:42
But it was like, OK, we've got, you know, and I'm fine with with
20:45
playing kids, but I'd never wanted it wanted it dictated to
20:49
me to when I had to put kids in. So, you know, you the, I was
20:54
always told, you know, especially at the at the middle
20:57
school level, well, everybody that makes a team has to has to
21:01
get in the game. And that just that doesn't work
21:03
all the time, right? And so I think that's, you know,
21:06
some advice that that I I've had here where I've had to been
21:09
like, no, like that's not going to work per game.
21:12
However, if that kid doesn't get in that game, I'm going to do my
21:15
best effort to get them in the next game, maybe in a starting
21:19
role or in in a reliever's role. But yeah, the telling me that I
21:23
have to get every player into every game is something that
21:27
parents need to understand that too, that the situation
21:30
sometimes does not allow that to happen.
21:32
However, if you're a good coach, you're going to find a way in
21:34
the next game to get them in and get some repetitions.
21:37
How about you? If you had any advice like that
21:38
where people told you hey you must get every kid in every.
21:41
No, I mean, I always tried to do that anyway, you know, But if
21:45
you're going to do that, you have to train your kids up
21:47
because if you've got kids that just aren't playing up to the
21:50
level that the other players are playing, that's going to be
21:54
tougher to do. You know, you'll get what you
21:55
can for them, but it's not going to be equal playing time at any
22:01
level, at least if you want to win, you know, and I think in
22:04
high school ball, that kind of thing, you know, the goal is to
22:08
win. I know it isn't travel ball too,
22:09
but there's, you know, a part of it that is also people pay their
22:14
money and you're trying. You have a lot more choice over
22:18
who you have on your team, so you have a better chance of
22:21
being able to play everyone because presumably they're all
22:23
at a closer level to each other. In high school, you pick from
22:27
the people who go to your school, and sometimes they're
22:30
good and sometimes they ain't. So trying to get an idea that
22:34
everybody has to play unless you're approaching it, you know,
22:39
unless the school is approaching.
22:40
This is a recreational activity. It's just not going to work.
22:45
Just doesn't make any sense. Just logistically, it just
22:48
sometimes can't work. Like I said, I always try to get
22:50
that kid in the next game, right.
22:52
So if they didn't get in that game, I try to start them.
22:54
I tried to find a spot where I could like they could pinch hit
22:56
or they could pinch run, whatever, and then try to get
22:59
them some reps next game. But you know, so that's been
23:02
some advice there that I've had to.
23:04
Yeah. So one of the other things I
23:06
want to talk about is a little bit more on the lesson side of
23:08
things can when I first started coaching, there was the don't
23:13
stride. Did you ever have anybody tell
23:15
you to have hitters not stride when they swing?
23:18
Nobody told me that one, but I've definitely seen that.
23:21
So when I started as as a. Not a fan.
23:24
Yeah, no, me neither. When I was AJV coach here high
23:27
school, you know, a long time ago, the guys that were in
23:31
charge of the varsity level were like, oh, you have to have all
23:34
of your, all of your kids don't stride the ball gets there too
23:39
quick. The softball swing is different
23:41
than the baseball swing you. And so we don't want anybody
23:44
striding. And I'm like, yeah, OK, so I,
23:48
you know, I take it with a grain of salt.
23:49
Yeah, yeah, shake my head. Fantastic, fantastic.
23:52
Looked at my girls and I'm like, we're going to do what's
23:54
comfortable, right. So, but yeah, the nose stride
23:57
was, was very, very taught back in the in the late 90s, early
24:03
2000s. And it was just mind boggling to
24:06
me as to why they would teach that.
24:09
Now there are certain situations, certain kids that
24:11
that might, they might need to do that.
24:13
As we know, motor preferences is a thing or whatever.
24:15
Now I, I get that, but that should not be cookie cutter that
24:19
everybody should not be taking a stride.
24:21
So that's one. And then the second part when I
24:23
was here too, is that the advice I was given, Again, I'm fresh
24:27
out of college, right? Wet behind the ears, coach
24:30
advice is, oh, everybody, everybody needs to swing down,
24:33
get it, swing down, chop down on the ball, chop down on the ball,
24:38
you know, and then you really break it down and and like, you
24:40
know, the bats going to flatten out at some point and it's going
24:42
to rise just because that's the natural movement.
24:44
But those were two things that were like incredibly bad advice
24:49
for me. Or at least I felt looking back
24:51
on it now, I was like, yeah, those things just did not make
24:54
sense. Yeah.
24:55
Well and it going along with that and you kind of hinted at
24:58
this as well is the idea of swing level.
25:01
And if the, if you're saying swing level to the ground, and I
25:04
think that's the way most people and certainly most kids will
25:07
interpret it, that's just terrible advice because now you
25:11
have access to the top and the bottom of the ball.
25:14
The top of the ball is going to get you weak ground balls on the
25:17
bottom of the ball is going to get you pop ups.
25:19
Yeah, you. Really want to have an angle on
25:22
the bat. You want to kind of Nike swoosh
25:24
through there if you want to get any kind of lift and get the
25:26
ball to travel farther. Exactly.
25:28
I always talk about the Nike swoosh.
25:30
We're let we want to see that barrel swoosh, right.
25:32
I think that's kind of where we're at with that.
25:35
But yeah, it was I'm telling you, Ken, that was probably some
25:37
of the things I was just mind boggling back in the day was the
25:41
no stride and everybody must ask the I mean, I'm talking like
25:44
literally chopped down on the ball.
25:47
So yeah, those are those are some some crazy, crazy things
25:50
that advice that I've been given.
25:52
Do you have any others that you've been given over the
25:54
years, even pitching side? Yeah, You know, I think that the
25:58
idea you know, this, again, this is one that you'll hear all the
26:02
time. You know, people will tell
26:03
pitchers who are struggling. They say slow it down and just
26:07
get it over. No, no, no, no, no, no.
26:11
Don't do that. If the pitcher is struggling,
26:15
take her out. It's OK.
26:17
You know, she'll cry a little bit, but you know, as long as
26:19
you tell her, she'll get another opportunity.
26:21
Hey, today's not your day. It'll be fine.
26:23
But if you're going to just slow it down and try to get the ball
26:26
over, you're never going to develop as a pitcher.
26:29
And I think that people even, you know, doing lessons and
26:32
stuff, they try to, they put too much focus on accuracy too early
26:37
instead of letting the girls develop.
26:39
To me, accuracy is an outgrowth of good mechanics.
26:44
If you're throwing the ball well, then you will get the ball
26:48
over the plate. You don't have to let up on it.
26:50
In fact, a lot of times it works better, at least in my
26:53
experience. Maybe you've had a different,
26:55
but my experience, once the kids get some, some innings under
26:59
their belt, they're going to throw better.
27:01
When they throw harder, they're going to throw more accurately,
27:04
more reliably, simply because they're using their body the way
27:09
it's designed to be used, whatever that is for them.
27:12
Yeah, absolutely. Again, I think everybody should
27:15
be chasing speed 1st and I'm not saying that it's not the
27:19
combination of both, but I think, you know, we want to get
27:21
the kids to learn to move first and then lock it back down and
27:25
then and work on spots and spins.
27:27
So I think that that's a that's a the slowing it down is yeah,
27:32
that's a huge one. Like slow it down, just get it
27:35
over like no, now we're just aiming in mechanics or just
27:37
garbage anyway, right. And so you know, I mean, does
27:40
that help you with the outcome? Sure, but the the process for
27:43
the kid is not not helping the kid at all whatsoever.
27:46
So yeah, that's a great one, Ken, that you thought about
27:48
there too, right? Yep.
27:50
So I don't have very much else. I mean, I kind of feel blessed
27:53
that we've been surrounded by great coaches over the years
27:56
that have kind of given us really good advice instead of,
27:59
you know, bad advice. So do you have any others that
28:01
you can think of off the top of your head?
28:03
Not off the top of my head. I probably should have put a
28:05
little more effort into thinking through some of those things.
28:08
You know, normally I come up with, Oh yeah, wait, I have
28:11
another one, but not today. Hey Jay, on a scale of 1 to 10,
28:18
how important do you think brush contact is for pictures?
28:22
It's pretty high up there Ken, probably a 10 since it's hard to
28:25
get maximum speed and or accuracy without it.
28:28
Yeah I agree, but have you ever had a student who struggled to
28:31
get good light brush contact? Sure, all the time, in fact.
28:37
Especially when they've been taught hello elbow and are
28:39
trying to throw around their hips or they're sliding their
28:42
hips out of the way doing that crazy ninja move.
28:45
So what do you do when you run into this situation?
28:47
Keep railing on them until they get it right.
28:50
I used to do that a lot, but then I learned about a product
28:53
called Pitch Squeak Ken. Pitch squeak.
28:56
What's that? It's a cool little armband with
28:59
a squeaker inside of it. Like a dog toy.
29:02
Yeah, kind of. So how does it work?
29:05
Well, you slip the armband onto the pitcher's forearm and you
29:09
set it so the squeaker is where the brush contacts should
29:11
happen. Then when the pitcher goes into
29:14
release, she tries to get it to squeak like this.
29:18
If she makes it happen, she got brush.
29:21
If there's no sound, she knows immediately and can make a
29:24
correction. Wow cool, so she gets immediate
29:27
audible as well as tactile feedback.
29:30
Oh, there you go again, showing off with those big and technical
29:34
words again. But yeah, she can feel it and
29:37
hear it. Does it really work?
29:39
You bet it does. I use it with my students all
29:42
the time and it helps them learn how to get brush contacts pretty
29:46
quickly if they practice with it.
29:48
Sounds neat. Where can I get one?
29:50
It's easy, Ken. Just e-mail
29:52
support@pitchsqueak.com and Jason, the inventor of it and a
29:58
Poly Girl certified pitching coach himself, will ask you how
30:01
many you want and send them right out.
30:04
I'll do that today. Thanks, Jay.
30:06
What's that address again? You bet, Ken.
30:09
It's support@pitchsqueak.com one more time for those of you who
30:15
are listening support@pitchsqueak.com.
30:19
And don't forget to mention in the e-mail that you heard about
30:22
it right here on From the Coach's Mouth podcast and you'll
30:25
receive 10% off. I want to switch gears.
30:31
And you know what? That's a good thing though, Ken,
30:33
because I I feel like you and I both have been lifelong
30:37
learners. So we're still trying to learn
30:39
new things. And I think that's a part of it.
30:41
If we were stuck in our ways years ago, Ken, I mean, imagine
30:44
where we would be. We'd be telling everybody on the
30:46
podcast here to make sure you snap your wrist and, you know,
30:49
point your elbow to the catcher when you finish and chop down on
30:52
the ball like you're chopping wood.
30:54
I mean, so those are things like I feel like I'm kind of glad and
30:57
I'm glad that I just didn't settle with what people said.
31:01
I was always a, you know, show me kind of person or let me see
31:04
it. I was always more of a visual
31:06
learner than people just telling me what to do.
31:08
And I think that's, that's, that's the ticket really.
31:11
So I'm kind of blessed that we've been, you know, lifelong
31:14
learners and, and just not just happy with what works all the
31:17
time. Yeah, and I think that it's
31:19
important, too. Is it just because somebody said
31:21
something, even if it's your boss, if you're in a school
31:25
situation or you know, the head of the program or you know, some
31:29
famous coach said, it doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
31:33
I think you have to observe what's going on.
31:35
You have to see, am I getting the outcomes I want to get out
31:38
of this? Just because so and so said to
31:41
chop down doesn't necessarily mean that that's a good idea.
31:45
You know, so you got to use your eyes, you have to use your
31:48
brain, see what's working for you.
31:51
And you're going back to when you were talking about automatic
31:54
bunt on when you get a run around first base, is that
31:57
producing runs for you or do you start out?
32:00
So now you have a runner on second with one out, and then
32:04
your next hitter comes up and hits a ground ball and the
32:06
runner gets the third. Now you get a runner on 3rd with
32:09
two outs. Well, it doesn't take too much
32:11
to get that third out and you just wasted a base runner.
32:15
Couldn't agree more. Hey, Ken, before we switch gears
32:18
into our next topic, do you want to give people some information
32:21
about how will you and I were guests on a podcast, not this
32:24
one, but on actual other somebody else's podcast?
32:27
Yeah, actually that was kind of fun.
32:29
The Everything Fast Pitch podcast of the first episode
32:33
came out the first week of March, I believe.
32:36
And then the second-half of our interview with them is coming
32:39
out this week. Probably.
32:42
You know, it'll it. Well, it'll have been out for a
32:45
week by the time this one airs. But yeah, it was a lot of fun
32:48
talking to Tori over there, Tori Atchison.
32:51
And he was just kind of asking us some questions about how we
32:55
get started. I didn't get a chance to tell my
32:57
story, though. I was going to tell him that
32:59
this was originally your idea and when you first mentioned it,
33:04
I I thought, wow, I hope Jay asked me to be a guest someday.
33:08
That would be fun to do. Guests Well, this was just a, a
33:12
a thought Ken. It wasn't even listen.
33:14
If I did 4 episodes, I was going to say that I did a podcast.
33:17
So you're the guy keeping this thing moving.
33:20
So there's no, there's nobody Again, I've been reading your
33:23
blog for years. So a lot of the stuff that I
33:26
know I got from you. So who else better to do this
33:29
podcast with than you? And if anybody who's listening
33:32
who is not reading Ken's blog, you guys are missing out, right?
33:36
And you know, it's one of the most, isn't it?
33:39
The highest read softball blog in the country.
33:42
I'm pretty close to it. It depends on when you do your
33:44
Google search, but it definitely shows up high, usually above the
33:49
fold, as they say, You know, it'll be up there in the screen.
33:51
So yeah, that's life in the fast pitch lane.
33:54
Just look it up under that name. And you know, I've been doing
33:57
this, gosh, I think since about 2008.
34:01
So it's been a long time. It's amazing.
34:03
I can still come up with topics, although I'm to the point now
34:06
where I actually have to go onto the blog and search.
34:09
When I get a a good idea for a headline, I have to search on
34:12
there to make sure I haven't written that one already.
34:14
Yeah, well, I mean, again, it's just challenging yourself.
34:17
So yeah, I mean, again, might have been my idea, but it's a 2
34:20
headed monster. Like I say every week buddy
34:22
podcast wouldn't be what it is without you.
34:24
And, and again, so it's, it's not, it's, it might have been my
34:27
idea, but it's, it's our podcast now, buddy.
34:30
Yep, Yep, for sure. All right.
34:32
And it's fun. I'm having a blast doing it and
34:35
talking to people and as people listen to it and they seem to
34:37
like it. So, you know, hopefully we're
34:40
we're helping to, you know, get some people informed, change
34:43
some minds, have some fun. That's an important part of it,
34:46
too. Yes.
34:47
And we're, we have some things coming up that if you're a
34:50
listener and you can and you're not following us on Spotify or
34:54
anything like that, we've got a little incentive for you to
34:56
click that little follow button that'll be coming out here.
34:59
We'll let you guys know about that on social media and
35:01
probably in the next podcast or so.
35:02
But we've got some things that Ken and I are excited about.
35:05
We're going to give to you if you give us a follow and a
35:08
share. So yeah, we're going to figure
35:10
that out. But regardless of that, you
35:12
know, we're excited for where this this podcast is going and
35:15
it's exciting. So it was really cool to be a
35:18
guest on somebody else's podcast, Ken.
35:20
I mean, that's like, wow. Like people actually, again, I
35:23
say it all the time, I can't believe people want to talk to
35:25
us or want to hear us talk about softball, but it's really cool.
35:28
And I'm, and I'm grateful for the opportunities to do this.
35:31
And, and I, and I love it. And it's, it's, you know, it,
35:34
that was really humbling for me to, to be able to talk about my
35:38
past. And, and I'm sure it was for
35:40
you, too. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
35:43
yeah. Just, you know, to be on the
35:45
other side of the the mic, I guess to be the one, you know,
35:49
being asked the questions instead of asking the questions
35:52
and tell our story a little bit. You know, it was a lot of fun.
35:55
So give that a listen. Again, it's everything fast
35:58
pitch. You can find that on Spotify and
36:01
Apple and all the usual places, all the usual suspects.
36:05
So give it a listen. Yeah.
36:07
All right. So let's switch gears here.
36:09
And I know you, you said you, you haven't watched a lot of
36:11
softball, but I've been watching quite a bit, especially some of
36:14
that, the higher, higher end games, especially the pitching
36:18
part. So it's really not that I want
36:19
to talk so much about what's going on at the NCA level or
36:23
Division One level, but it's really I want to talk about
36:25
pitching and because what I'm seeing is something that is
36:29
really, really, really cool. First of all, I want to talk
36:32
about some some surprises for teams.
36:35
Belmont is man, that kid Maya Johnson, she can absolutely
36:39
Chuck it. And I think what she's a senior
36:41
this year. So that's going to be a kid that
36:43
I'm going to try to get on this podcast after she graduates.
36:46
But I can't even imagine thinking about that's in the
36:49
Missouri. They're in the Missouri Valley
36:50
Conference, which is always a very solid conference.
36:54
I can't imagine Belmont. And now let's remember this is
36:57
the she had like, what was it 15 or 14 strikeouts against Georgia
37:01
and they beat Georgia 2 to one. She's had several games where
37:04
she's just dominated some of these higher end power 4 power
37:08
five teams. And my point is, is Belmont, if
37:13
they win the Missouri Valley Conference are going to come in
37:16
as a four seed, playing a one seed.
37:18
That's scary. That's got to be scary for
37:20
somebody who when they wherever Belmont goes to their region, if
37:24
Belmont makes it there or whoever comes out of the
37:27
Missouri Valley is still going to be tough because you're
37:29
dealing with some really good pictures in the Missouri Valley
37:31
Conference. You know, I think that that
37:35
anybody coming out of that conference is a four seed into
37:37
that regional is going to be scary for a one seed.
37:40
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's amazing. And it just goes to show you
37:45
that you don't have to be at a power for school to be good to
37:49
win. You know, every year it seems
37:51
like there's somebody, you know, some school that comes out of
37:54
nowhere. Liberty did that a couple of
37:56
years ago where nobody expected them trying to remember some of
38:00
the other schools. But yeah, it's just like all of
38:01
a sudden they just get hot. You know, they're doing well.
38:05
And, you know, you, you just never know.
38:08
That's why you have to play the game, right?
38:10
That's why you don't just, you know, look at it on paper and
38:12
give the win to whoever looks like they should be the ones
38:15
that win. Yep, so I want to I want to get
38:18
into some of the the pitching side of this.
38:20
These are things that I've been paying attention to Ken, I'm
38:24
seen and I know that travel ball coaches are they're they're
38:28
they're going to steam when I say this, but I'm seeing
38:31
pitchers mid major to power 4, power 5.
38:36
When they throw their change up, they're leaving it dead red down
38:40
the middle and the kids are not touching the ball.
38:43
It just freezes them. And I hate it when coaches well,
38:48
we want it low and away or we want it low and in and I get
38:50
that that's an important part to to put that ball there.
38:53
But if you sell that change up well enough, right, and your
38:57
mechanics are in line to where it's deceptive, you can leave
39:01
that ball dead red down the middle and still get people to
39:04
not swing at it or pop it up. And I and that's huge.
39:07
And so I want to I want to go back.
39:09
I was watching Nebraska versus Oklahoma State and you had Jordi
39:14
Fram on there and you had I think it's Ruby Malin, right?
39:18
And I'm watching these two pitch Ken and these hitters on for
39:23
both sides were clueless in that game because every time they
39:27
threw a ball, right, we you know, Jordy has her drop ball,
39:31
she has a change up, she has a rise ball, right?
39:33
That's it pretty much from from what I understand of her and
39:36
Ruby Maillon, I think it's kind of on the same boat.
39:39
I know they both go to the same pitching instructor who's a good
39:41
friend of ours, Darren Dubeski. And so I'm watching, I'm
39:45
watching these two girls go battle these lineups and they're
39:50
leaving their change UPS down the middle because those kids
39:54
think they're either getting a rise or a drop out of that kids
39:56
hand and and it's they're just freezing them and striking them
39:59
out. The kids aren't even attempting
40:00
to swing at the Balkan. What What do you think about
40:03
leaving the change up down the middle?
40:05
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a huge advocate of that, Jay.
40:08
And there was a study a few years ago, I think down in
40:11
Florida where they looked at it and it was mostly against Power
40:14
4, maybe Power 5 at the time, but Power 4 opponents and they
40:20
looked at, you know, where, where they getting swings and
40:23
misses? Where were they getting their
40:24
strikes from? Where, you know, where were they
40:26
not getting contact from? And on the change up, even at
40:29
that level, the great majority of the pitches were just down
40:33
the middle. I think you can try to get too
40:36
cute trying to throw that change up inside outside.
40:40
I'd rather put that effort, like you say, into selling the pitch.
40:43
Make sure that you're maintaining your arm speed all
40:45
the way through. Make sure that you are getting
40:48
the same amount of leg drive. I stress that all the time in
40:52
lessons with the kids. It's just you got to throw the
40:55
snot out of that ball. And if you're throwing it
40:58
correctly, it will change speeds.
41:02
It won't look like what it should look like coming out of
41:05
your hand based on what your body is doing.
41:07
And that's what's going to fool the hitters.
41:09
That's what's going to freeze them because their brains are
41:13
expecting one thing. They see something completely
41:15
different. And by the time that pitch gets
41:17
there, it's too late for them to do anything about it.
41:20
Yeah. The other thing I'm seeing too,
41:22
Ken, is I'm going to, I'm going to list off some, some pitchers
41:25
that are, are pitching and they're very high level.
41:28
We have Kevon at Texas, you've got Kennedy at Texas Tech,
41:33
right? We talked about, we already
41:34
talked about Geordie ball, we talked about Ruby Malin, right?
41:39
The common denominator in those kids or those pitchers, excuse
41:44
me, not kids, those pitchers that I mentioned is that they
41:48
all have very good vertical stuff, right?
41:51
And and to me, and not only that, but they're able to throw
41:55
their vertical stuff, Ken at two different levels, sometimes 3,
42:00
meaning they can throw the low rise right in.
42:04
They can throw, you know, and then the the the rise out.
42:07
And then some of them can even some of them can even put it at
42:10
a third level if they want. Same thing with the drop.
42:12
Like it's it was it was cool to see Jordy throwing the drop ball
42:17
hard where it was biting early and then she would throw it late
42:20
too when the hitters were making adjustments.
42:23
But all of those pitchers that I'm mentioning have a really
42:25
great vertical pitch. And I think that's the missing
42:30
piece for a lot of these people. Now, I didn't watch Maya Johnson
42:34
pitch, but I'm going to guess she's a lefty that she probably
42:37
has a really good rise ball after this, after we get off
42:40
this podcast, I'm going to go see if I can get some video and
42:42
see what her her her number one pitch is.
42:44
And I'm probably sure she has a really good change up too.
42:46
But what do you, what do you think about having to have a
42:49
vertical pitch, either the rise or the drop or another thing I
42:53
want you to talk about, Ken, is this.
42:55
There have been people that I have heard that have gotten on
42:58
social media and said, well, you cannot have a really good rise
43:00
ball and a really good drop ball.
43:02
Just it's very few can do that. And and I'm seeing more and more
43:05
kids that can do that. What about you?
43:07
You know, I think that that's actually true to some extent.
43:12
I wouldn't ever say you can't. That's certainly not a thing.
43:16
I think it's more difficult for some than others, and that just
43:18
has to do with how they come into the release.
43:22
You know, some people can maintain their supination better
43:25
and they might be a little bit better on the up pitches.
43:28
Some are better pronators and they're going to be better on
43:31
the down pitches. But like anything else, it's
43:33
something you can learn. It's just a matter of are you
43:36
going to put the effort into it? So you've got a pitcher, let's
43:40
say that pitched in travel ball, pitched in high school and was
43:44
able to get everybody out with her rise ball.
43:47
All right, So she goes to school, you know, goes to
43:49
college all of a sudden. Well, they're laying off that
43:52
rise ball now what? So she's going to have to
43:55
develop that other pitch that the drop ball so that there's a
43:59
bit of a mix. There's no absolutes in any of
44:01
this stuff. And again, some things are going
44:04
to be easier for some than others, but that doesn't mean
44:07
that you just say, OK, well, I'm just going to stick with what's
44:09
easy. I think sometimes you just have
44:11
to work it and it can be more frustrating, but give it a try,
44:15
keep working on it. Yeah, I want to say like when
44:18
I'm doing instruction right, the first, the first thing that I'm
44:22
teaching a kid is a drop ball. Now what I mean by that is it's
44:25
really their fastball. I I want that, I want your
44:28
fastball to have downspin on it. So, you know, I don't, I don't
44:32
want people to get confused and and think that I'm teaching a
44:34
kid to have that turnover drop or anything like that.
44:37
Like to me, your fastball should be your drop ball.
44:40
We want the same speed, if not more.
44:42
We want a hard biting axis on that, on the spin axis on that
44:45
ball. I don't ever, I tell my kids all
44:47
the time, I don't know why you ever want to throw ball that
44:51
just doesn't move right. And so for me, you know, as a
44:54
lot of my kids will have decent drop balls or good drop balls
44:57
because it it's just the first pitch that we talk about.
45:00
And it's it's how how I kind of teach mechanics.
45:03
And then I do have I do have kids that have both really good
45:07
hard drops and some really good rise balls.
45:09
So it's out there. I will say, yes, some are better
45:11
supinators and then pronators, so on and so forth.
45:13
But yeah, I think the way that we kind of teach things too is
45:16
important too. If you're teaching a kid to
45:18
throw a a turnover drop where they're pulling the shoulder
45:22
forward and then the hands rolling over the ball, you're
45:24
forcing the hand over the ball, you're probably not going to
45:26
have a good rise ball because that shoulders going to turn
45:29
forward. And as you heard Bill Hill House
45:30
tell you, hey, you got to hide the shoulder to get under the
45:33
rise ball longer. So, you know, I think those are
45:36
important things like how you teach things to to people too,
45:39
is maybe that's why some people don't have good rise balls and
45:42
and good drop balls is because we're teaching them things that
45:45
probably we shouldn't be teaching them just to make the
45:47
ball go up or just to make the ball go down.
45:49
Yeah. Well, and, and definitely, I
45:52
think that's one of the things that sometimes what's being
45:55
taught is the problem and it's limiting other things.
45:58
I, I'm glad you brought that up about the drop ball, because I
46:01
was just thinking about that kind of coming back full circle
46:04
on bad advice. I have a, a girl, Lila, who
46:09
she's one of my pitching students, but then they bring in
46:11
her team, brings in someone to work with their pitchers.
46:16
And she was telling me that the, the coach was saying, you know,
46:20
that other coach was saying to, you know, throw your shoulder.
46:22
You got to throw your shoulder over, you got to turn your hand
46:24
over like this. And I told her, no, no, no, no,
46:27
no. Don't, don't bother with that.
46:28
You don't need all of that. You can just let the ball go.
46:31
Just get a good release and you know the ball will go down.
46:35
You don't have to go through all that stuff.
46:37
Well, last night I put her on the pitch.
46:39
Logic ball, Jay, you wouldn't believe it.
46:42
This girl is 12 years old. She's playing 11 U ball.
46:45
She had almost perfect 6:00. I think it was 530.
46:50
She's a lefty. 5:30 to 6:00 spin direction with 95 to one time
46:57
even 100% efficiency. It wow, you know, and it's like,
47:01
so you want to tell this kid that she's got to throw her
47:04
shoulder over and do these other things to try to get to
47:08
something that she's already doing.
47:10
It's just, it's, it's crazy to me.
47:13
Again, I, I say this all the time, Ken, when I'm, when I'm,
47:16
you know, doing lessons, we'll talk about, hey, you know, show
47:21
me your curveball and it'll go to the left, but there's no
47:24
break in it. I'm like, well, in, in this
47:25
building, that's not a curve, right?
47:27
So, and that's that. I think that's the point of it,
47:30
you know, forcing your hand down to make the ball go down and
47:32
calling it a drop is, is not a drop ball.
47:35
It's just, again, you're probably going to get some crazy
47:37
bull spin. You might actually get solid
47:40
6:00 spin on that because the ball's already out of the hand
47:43
before you force the shoulder and the hand over anyway.
47:45
However, good luck trying that on a curveball where you're
47:48
yanking your shoulder all the way across or you're the best
47:50
one is finish all the way to your front pocket.
47:52
And I'm like, if we even talk about what the body is doing
47:55
when we throw a curveball. And if you're finishing to your
47:59
front pocket, and I ask kids all the time, well, when you throw
48:01
your curveball, does your curveball ever just stay and go
48:04
down the middle? Oh, yeah.
48:05
And I'm like, well, here's why. Because this is where the ball's
48:08
exiting the hand because you're trying to torque this hand and
48:12
body all the way across the throw.
48:14
Throw the ball just across to that plate.
48:16
We got to learn how to spin that ball.
48:17
So again, it's crazy. It's just it, it's mind boggling
48:21
to me, Ken that we, like I said, we see this.
48:23
That's the those are the bad advices.
48:25
Like let's land and yank our body all the way over here or
48:28
land this way and throw it or, or just finish with your hand
48:32
all the way up on a rise ball or just throw the ball up.
48:35
Like just get under the ball and bring my fingers underneath it.
48:38
I've heard that too. I'm like, what is going on?
48:40
How we teaching that, but those are those are the things I think
48:43
that you know that that really just boggle my mind.
48:47
If we just if you just take the time to break it down, you'll
48:49
see exactly what's going on on a good curveball pitcher.
48:52
You know so. Right.
48:54
And and I think that the idea of the cookie cutter teaching, you
48:58
know, that we have to have everybody do the same thing.
49:01
It's not going to work that way. Everybody's built differently.
49:04
Everybody moves a little bit differently.
49:06
Their muscles are a little bit different.
49:09
You have to kind of find what gets you to what you need, and
49:14
that's going to be different for each one of us.
49:16
Yeah, absolutely. And so I think some of those
49:19
things that even I'm, I always try to break it down and like,
49:22
you know, I'm always using, you know what, what I see on TV as
49:26
to like what's really happening and not happening.
49:29
And so a lot of times it's like trying to to get them to
49:32
understand that it is important. It's like, OK, what's what's the
49:35
goal here? Well, it's to, you know, I want
49:38
to play college softball. OK, well, we've got to pitch
49:40
like some of those people that are you're seeing on TV right
49:43
now. And mechanically, I tell them
49:44
all the time, if you are, if you are a pitcher's parent or just
49:49
just a a travel softball dad or mom, watch some college softball
49:54
a little bit because it it'll really open your eyes.
49:56
And we're in the the most pristine moment right now where
50:01
every pitch that you see on TV for the most part is going to be
50:04
slow mode. And you can see the release of
50:06
what's actually happening instead of then, then, and then
50:10
go to your instructor and be like, why is she releasing like
50:12
this? But you're telling my daughter
50:14
to release like that. Have them explain it to you,
50:16
right? I say that all the time.
50:17
Like these people that you see on TV have given us a road map,
50:21
right? Like we just have to follow it.
50:23
We have to understand how they're moving.
50:25
Is everything going to be identical?
50:26
No, there's going to be differences.
50:28
I totally get that. However, things that we are
50:32
being taught and what we see on TV are, you know, or what we're
50:34
teaching, you and I are teaching are sometimes the exact opposite
50:38
of what other people are teaching.
50:39
And that that's why I say like going and watching some of these
50:42
games and and again, being a college coach myself, seeing
50:45
seeing the mechanics, I don't see some of the stuff that's
50:48
being taught by some of these other people.
50:50
So what about you can do you see?
50:52
I mean, do you see anybody can on Kyle Softball finishing with
50:56
Hello Elbow? Do you see that?
50:57
No, not really. If it if you see anything like
51:00
that, it's usually an after the fact kind of move.
51:04
So it's it's like the vestigial tail.
51:07
You know, you have some people that have a little bit of a tail
51:10
to them that goes back through evolution.
51:13
It's that same kind of thing as if they were taught hello elbow.
51:16
They couldn't quite break the habit.
51:17
You know they're throwing well and then, you know, half a
51:20
second after they've released the ball, then their arm just
51:23
kind of lifts up like that out of habit, but it's not
51:26
contributing to the pitch. You just don't see it.
51:29
Yeah, not at all, and that's the point.
51:30
But yet you have some people out there who are teaching that and
51:32
I don't see that on when I'm watching even mid majors.
51:36
A lot of the mid major pitchers have really great mechanics if
51:39
you just pay attention to them. I wanted to ask you one, Jay.
51:42
So 4 seam versus 2 seam. I every now and then I see this,
51:47
you know, kid comes in and they're teaching, someone's
51:50
teaching them to throw their fastball with two seams.
51:54
You you're going to get up in the horseshoe and you're going
51:56
to throw it that way or they're going to throw this pitch with
51:59
two seams or that one and they're messing around with that
52:02
kind of stuff. I am not a fan of that,
52:05
especially at the younger ages because we want to get the ball
52:08
to go where it's intended to go. That's going to happen a lot
52:11
more easily with A4 seam fastball, A4 seam drop ball, and
52:15
the ball is going to move forward because ball is going to
52:18
move more because you have 4 seams cutting through the air in
52:23
whatever direction. But what do you think about
52:25
that? Yeah, I I'm kind of the same
52:27
way. I stick predominantly with the
52:28
four seam. But I will say this, if you're
52:31
going to throw A2 seam pitch, then you, you better have
52:35
something else that matches it, right?
52:37
So if I have a two seam curveball, right, and we're
52:42
going to throw that, then we better have another pitch that's
52:44
going to match that two seam curveball, right?
52:47
I, I think that to me is more important.
52:49
Do I have kids that throw 2 seams?
52:51
I do, I do, right? And some of those grips actually
52:54
work better. I would say when they're first
52:55
starting out, I predominantly stick to 4 seam and then we kind
52:58
of, we kind of then move over into A2 seam.
53:01
Now, disclaimer, I actually teach A2 seam rise ball, which
53:06
is, I know that's going to make people boggle their minds and,
53:09
and all that stuff. And that technically, I don't
53:11
know if it really is, but I use I, when I teach the, the rise
53:14
ball, I use the men's grip a lot.
53:17
It's a, it's a fingertip grip. And then I also say to like, if
53:20
we're going to have a fingertip grip, then we need to make sure
53:22
that we're coming out of glove. Most of my kids with the
53:24
fingertip grip are coming out of glove or they have another pitch
53:27
that has a fingertip on it, right?
53:29
So they'll have a change up that has just a tip of the finger on
53:32
it or they'll have a curveball that they kind of tip it.
53:34
So we're not giving that pitch away when we're doing it.
53:37
And it's worked well for a lot of my kids.
53:39
Can it's, it's not a pure back spin ball, right?
53:44
So I believe me when I tell you I have also have kids who have
53:46
really good 4 seam, you know, rise balls.
53:49
And I actually have one that throws the, as we call it the
53:52
fatty rise and her balls. Great.
53:54
But I also have the two seam grip, which I use the men's grip
53:59
on the fingertip grip on, which isn't a pure backspin ball, but
54:04
it does get some backspin on it, right.
54:06
So it kind of it kind of lifts and runs and I like it because
54:10
it really, it does have a jump in it.
54:13
My kid that's I've got a few of them that throw, I've got a kid
54:15
in Toledo that throws it. I've got a kid that's going to
54:18
Illinois State at 27 who throws it.
54:20
I've got actually two of them who both throw that one and it
54:23
just seems to work really well for them.
54:25
So again, grip is more individual based.
54:28
I teach it when I have kids that really have a hard time getting
54:32
the thumb off the ball through that release.
54:35
It just really helps get the fingertip kind of into the ball
54:39
and over So it doesn't give a bullet Ken, but it it's almost
54:42
on a on a tilted axis, if you will.
54:45
So it still picks up some back. It still picks up some backspin,
54:49
but it's not pure right. So that it's got a it's got a
54:51
lift and a run to it. So that's kind of me.
54:54
But I do agree with you. Can most of my younger kids, I
54:57
start them out at 4 seam grips. I love the four seam drop.
54:59
I love the four seam rise. Like I, you know, if I can stay
55:03
on that, I will, but if not, I've got to try to help each kid
55:05
individually. And so the ones that I've gone
55:08
to the fingertip grip with, it's really my kid is Saint Xavier.
55:12
She, she throws the, the fingertip in her rise ball jumps
55:14
like crazy. And it's, it's got, it's like I
55:16
said, it's not pure, but it's, it does get some really good
55:19
jump on it. So that's, that's kind of my
55:21
thought on that is like, if you are going to teach a kid a 2
55:24
scene fastball, then she, they better have a 2 scene curveball.
55:28
You, it's got to be deceptive. If you've got different spins
55:31
coming at batters, batters are going to pick that stuff up.
55:34
They just will. Yeah.
55:35
And, you know, same thing, you know, different grips.
55:38
If every pitch has to have a different grip, I think that it
55:41
becomes a lot easier to pick those pitches, especially as
55:44
they get older. So, you know, you want to try to
55:47
have as many pitches with the same grip.
55:50
Like for me, a fastball, a change up, a drop ball, they're
55:55
all going to have the same grip, which is pretty much
55:58
automatically. So, you know, if you're going to
56:00
do the two seam, if you want to try to get it to run a little
56:02
bit inside or outside as they get older, yeah, that makes
56:06
sense. But to me, the first thing you
56:08
want to do, so with a younger player, first thing you want to
56:11
do is to have them be able to throw strikes.
56:13
Everybody's going to be yelling at them to throw strikes.
56:16
So if they've got a pitch that's kind of dipping off one way or
56:19
the other and they already have control trouble, it's just going
56:22
to make it that much worse. Yep, absolutely.
56:26
I couldn't agree more, Ken. So anything else you want to
56:29
talk about today? We've been on, you know, almost
56:31
an hour now yapping here and hopefully people have listened,
56:35
listened to it and gotten some information from us.
56:38
Yeah, You know, I'm sure we made a few people mad as we were
56:41
talking about things that they've been teaching.
56:43
And all I can tell you with that is, as Jay was saying, take a
56:46
look at what you see in college ball.
56:49
Take a look at what you see in the AUSL.
56:51
What are those pitchers doing? Are they doing all these crazy
56:55
things that you're trying to get across?
56:56
What are the hitters doing? Are they doing all these crazy
56:58
things you're trying to teach your kids?
57:01
Or are they doing something different?
57:03
And if you're not seeing what you're teaching, then maybe it's
57:06
time to go back and think what you're teaching.
57:10
I do it all the time. Jay does it all the time.
57:13
I, you know, if I'm teaching the same things in five years, five
57:17
years from now that I am right now, I going to feel like I
57:20
failed. Yeah, Amen to that.
57:22
Keep learning, keep growing. I think that's the biggest thing
57:25
and challenge things. Look at it right.
57:28
I say it all the time. Look at things like break it
57:31
down, use video. Video doesn't lie, right?
57:33
So I think those are important things.
57:35
So awesome. Ken, that's a good episode
57:37
today. Do you do you want to take us
57:38
out or you got anything else you want to talk about?
57:40
I don't think I have any other topics to to come across today.
57:44
Can I say one more thing before we go?
57:45
Yeah, sure. Be ready because Ken, like I
57:48
said, Ken and I are going to have a little incentive for some
57:50
people that will actually like us on Spotify or, you know, give
57:55
us a follow on Spotify or Apple was Apple Podcasts, right?
58:00
Yeah, a like and a share. And we're gonna, we got a little
58:03
incentive for you. If you do that, you'll have to
58:05
kind of show us or, or e-mail us or something to let us know that
58:08
you did it. But stay tuned.
58:10
Hopefully in the probably in the next episode, we'll talk a
58:13
little bit more about it. Maybe there'll be a picture or
58:16
something like that too that you'll understand.
58:18
But we're excited and we want to get some stuff out to some
58:21
people who have been listening to us and we appreciate you
58:23
guys. So just stay tuned for that.
58:25
It's we got a little incentive coming, little little giveaway
58:28
kind of thing. So please make sure you're you
58:31
are are. Stay in tuned.
58:33
Yeah, yeah, we're definitely excited for that and we love all
58:36
of you. So we're looking forward to
58:39
hearing from you when we get that launched.
58:42
OK, that's it for us this week. Thanks to all of you for
58:45
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58:48
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