Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / Lorena Bobbitt: What we have forgotten about her story, 31 years later: EXCLUSIVE Interview!

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Lorena Bobbitt: What we have forgotten about her story, 31 years later: EXCLUSIVE Interview! · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yucatel. Well,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: today we have a bucket list guest, someone who for
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the last year and a half, I have been trying
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to get on this show. When I created this show,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I had a list of people that I felt like
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: had been reduced to a headline and I wanted to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: hear their story.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Well, Lorena Bobbitt is one of them.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: If you don't know who Lorena Bobbitt is, in the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: early hours of June 23rd, 1993, 30 years ago, just about,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Lorena became famous for taking an eight inch knife from
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: her kitchen and cutting off her husband's penis. She then
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: proceeded to get into a car, throw it into the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: bushes and sort of disappear. Her husband, John Wayne Bobbitt,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: ended up getting the, I don't know, member, you should say, reattached.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And both of them were basically on trial.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: He.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: got off and she also was found not guilty from
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: temporary insanity. Now, when you ask people to, you know,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: what they thought of her name, when you say Lorena Bobbitt,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: people usually cover their private parts. People said, oh my God,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that woman's crazy. And that got me thinking, why, why
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: was she crazy? And if she was crazy, she would
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: have been found guilty. So what I did was is
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I spent the last year trying to get a hold
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: of her. I finally got a hold of her. I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: flew all the way to Washington, D.C. I sat down
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: with her for two hours. And what I heard was
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: shocking to me. This is a woman who brought up
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: terms that I had not heard of before, like marital rape.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I thought that when you're married, how could
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: it be rape?
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Right. I heard terms that I've never heard in a relationship.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: We're gonna get to them in this interview, but I
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: want you to listen up because this is important.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: For you to know.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: You may have a lot of opinions about what happened
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  Speaker 1: 30 years ago. This woman made all sorts of headlines.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Everyone wanted to know what was happening and who was
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: gonna get in trouble. Did her husband beat her up?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And did she retaliate or was she just a crazy
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Hispanic woman, you know, from Ecuador, wherever?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And, you know, she.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Was just nuts and did something insane because she got jealous. Well,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: we get to the bottom of it in this interview.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Lorena Gallo is what she goes by now, has spent
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: her entire life advocating for domestic violence. I want you
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to be aware of that as well. So obviously this
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: changed this woman's life. She was a young 24-year-old woman
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: when this happened who barely spoke English. Now she's a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: very educated woman who's changed her whole life around based
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: on this one thing. But just imagine for a second
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: what that's like when you walk into a room and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: your name is Lorena Bobbitt, the kind of jokes you
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: had to endure, the kind of stigma you had to endure,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the fact that she's had a boyfriend or a relationship
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: for as long as she has. I'm just so impressed
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: because you would think that would have been hard. So
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: it was my honor and my privilege And I really
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: am happy to bring this conversation to you with Lorena Bobbitt. Lorena,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me here. We are
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: in Washington, D.C. I'm so happy to be here with you.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Of course. It's an honor. Do wait.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Do people just flip out when they see you? I mean,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like from my generation, especially you are someone
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: that your story has resonated with me personally, because I'm
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: someone who's been through what I assume you've been through,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: which is where, you know, The media and people who
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: know your story have reduced you to a headline.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And it's been very hard.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: To share with people who you really are because they're
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: so stuck in the thought of what this narrative is.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: And it's affected my entire life for the rest of
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: my life from a moment of what happened. And I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: can imagine that is what you have gone through. And
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I've always felt very empathetic and like I know you
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: because while our stories are so different, the feeling is
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the same and what happened is still the same. And so,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: you know, you were someone that when I started this show,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I started it for there was a list of maybe
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: eight or.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Nine people that I started it for that.
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  Speaker 1: I was like, these are the people that I feel
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  Speaker 1: like need to have their voice heard.
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  Speaker 2: And you were one of them. So it's like such
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: an honor to have you here. Oh, thank you so much, Rachel.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate your kind words. And yeah, like you said,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, people don't, I mean, at that time, obviously,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: my case happened 30 years, 35 years also. As a
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: matter of fact, 35 years ago. And they don't really
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: quite freaked out. I actually, I was surprised to see
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: how welcoming I was among women. Yeah, especially women. And
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  Speaker 2: whenever I go to, I couldn't even go to a
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  Speaker 2: grocery store because I will be recognized.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Because my face was in every tabloid, every media. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: it was like the case on international headlines and international news.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: So I had to leave that at that moment. And
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  Speaker 2: it was very difficult for me to actually get out
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  Speaker 2: of the house and not being recognized. So.
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  Speaker 2: And, you know, after being vilified, after being dehumanized and sexualized,
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  Speaker 2: I guess, it's very bad. It had an impact in
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  Speaker 2: my life.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: But I learned to cope and learned to maybe retrain
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  Speaker 2: my brain more. you know, through all this, it was
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  Speaker 2: very traumatic. It was very difficult, um, to go through
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that in my life. But at the same time, um,
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  Speaker 2: I have to live a life. I have to regain my,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: my confidence, my, my self-esteem, and I have to regain,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I guess I, I compartmentalized a lot of
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: those things, but, but as a, at the meantime, I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: didn't want to be detached for what happened because, you know,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the more I talk about it, like, um, I am
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a facilitator in shelters and I do speeches when I
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: go and talk to abuse survivors and victims of domestic
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  Speaker 2: violence and sexual assault. That's exactly what I do. I
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: retell the story. The more I tell my story, the
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: more comfortable I have become telling my story. And the
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: story I find out that I talk to them, it
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: gives them hope and to gain their self-esteem and to
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: also help them to get away from that abusive relationship.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what I do. That's exactly what I do. But,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, at the meantime, I mean, it was very
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  Speaker 2: hard and very difficult to accept the fact that I
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  Speaker 2: was not only judged in the court of law, but
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  Speaker 2: I was also judged on the court of the public opinion.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And it was very... That's always harder sometimes. Yes, and
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  Speaker 2: it was. And it was so hard, very difficult. My
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  Speaker 2: family was there for support and everything. My friends were
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  Speaker 2: there for support, but they not always didn't know how
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: to help me. And so that was very traumatic for me.
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  Speaker 2: But at the same time, like I said before, I
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: have to become myself strong, stronger and recover my dignity
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  Speaker 2: and recover the personal agency that I've lost. I mean,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: people wrote, wrote stories about me that, um, they weren't true.
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  Speaker 2: They weren't necessary. It was just their opinion. And, um,
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  Speaker 2: and that's what, um, I want people to understand that there's,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: there's a story, there's a human being behind all of
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: this headlines and the tabloids, uh, stories and, uh, you know,
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  Speaker 2: it was very difficult. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right.
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  Speaker 1: There's so much to unpack because everything you just said
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  Speaker 1: is so important. And, you know, everyone thinks that they
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: know you. You hear the name Lorena Bobbitt and it
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: comes with just a single headline, really. I mean, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't think, I know that people don't know the
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: whole story, but what I do want to ask you
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: just off the top, you know, when I ask People,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you know, I've said I'm coming to interview Lorena Bobbitt.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: They say, oh, I know her. I remember her.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: She's the one that cut off her husband's penis, period.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: You know, they don't know all the ifs, ands, or
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: buts about it. Right.
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  Speaker 1: What would you say is the essence of the story?
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  Speaker 1: If you heard John and Lorena Bobbitt, oh yeah, I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: remember them. What would you say.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Is the story? There's a lot. I mean, there's basically
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: young women at the time, because I got married when
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I was, I just turned 20 years old. But the
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: essence of the story is I was a victim of
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: domestic abuse and sexual assault by my ex-husband, John Bobbitt.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't know my story. And
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: thank God I have done documentaries. I have done movies
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: about my life that, you know, it is important to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: show what I come from and what the essence of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the story is or was. It's not. What people think.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: A revengeful, angry woman who took her, a jealous woman
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: who took her anger out on a husband who wasn't
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: giving her attention or who was making her jealous or.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Any of those things.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: So let's, I want to talk about that for a
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: minute because I do want people to hear your side. Yes.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: So before we get into that, just talk to me
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: about your upbringing. You were not born in America. You
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: were born in Ecuador, right?
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was born in Ecuador and my parents moved
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: to Venezuela when I was about seven years old. I'm
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: the oldest of three children. And my mother and father
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: went to Venezuela to find a better life, to find opportunities,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: just like people come to America. to live the American dream, right?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: And so I was left with my aunt and my
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: parents' family, my abuelita, which is grandma in Spanish. And
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: they were raising me while my parents actually work hard
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: in Venezuela, Caracas, in order to save money to bring
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: us with them to Venezuela. Yeah. And so me and
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: my sister went back. My, my brother was born in,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: in Venezuela. And so we started a life there. And
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: by the time I was 15 years old, um, my
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: parents weren't, we don't come from a lot of money.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Obviously we're very humble. Our humble beginnings started in Ecuador.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: We were poor. And, um, so my, I remember my
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: mom and dad always work hard and, um, always hustling
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: and uh so by the time that we have a
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: big tradition of when we are 15 years old in
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Latin America it's called the quinceanera and it's like the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: sweet 16 in in the United States but um we
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: didn't have enough money. And I told my parents, I said, look,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't have to have, it's not a
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: big deal. I can actually, I like to travel and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I like to go to see my cousins. I have
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: a lot of family here in the United States and
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: my family and my father said, okay, we can save
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: some money and send you to visit, you know, the
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: cousins and the family here in Virginia, United States. And
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I said, that will work perfect for me. So it
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: took us like, my goodness, two years to save money.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: And so for me... What did they do for a living?
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Your parents? Yeah. My mom was cleaning houses. Okay. And
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: my father was a dental technician.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: He made dentures. And so that's what they make the living.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: The living, yeah. So it took us a long time
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: to save for them.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: for me to receive that present. So when I came here,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I just fell in love with everything about the United States,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the culture, the language, English, and everything. It's just so pretty, right?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: And the opportunities that America was offering. And so I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: was 17, and then I wanted to stay. And my
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: father said, no, you have to come back and finish
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: your high school. You can't just stay there. And so
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I said, okay. So my father convinced me to. to
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: go back to Venezuela. And so by the time that
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I graduated from high school in Venezuela, I asked again
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: to come back. And I was determined to come back
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: here to the United States. And, you know, just because
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: I like it so much. And I see the opportunities,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: you know, the work opportunities my cousins, my family had here.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And in Venezuela, it was very difficult to living. It
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: was democracy back then. Before Chavez, communist and socialism started.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: But so I see the difference how every year was
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: progressing into a more difficult way of living in Venezuela.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: So I said, well, chances are that I am not
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: going to have a good future here. I better just
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: go and live my life in the United States and
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: look for this American dream, etc. And so... I was
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: very excited when I came back here at 18 years old.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: And so my cousins helped me. I stay in my
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: cousin's house in Virginia. And then so for some reason,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I just I just wanted to work and I apply
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: for a student visa. They said, no, you have to study.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Your main goal here is to, you know, to study and,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: you know, be educated. And so I said, OK, let's
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: do that. But the problem was that, you know, when
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: you have a student visa, you won't be able to
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: work because you're supposed to be a full-time student. Okay.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: So I had my student visa, and then I said, well,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I can survive. You know, I need money to eat, to,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: you know, buy clothes for myself or survive. And I
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: just feel bad that my cousins were supporting me. And
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: so they were like, okay. I can find you a job.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: And so I find this job as a nanny, which
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: eventually she was my boss and she had this nail salon. And,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: you know, eventually I become a manicurist and work at
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: her shop. And so I started to work with her
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: and she was paying me under the table, right? Because,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously I could not, you know, work having
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: the student visa. So... She had a child, and I
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: just loved the child. He was four years old, and
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: so I was taking care of him while I went
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to school. And at the same time, I was just,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: you know, oh, wow, I'm just earning money, which wasn't
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: too much because, you know, she was paying me cash,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: but she also offered me a living area in her house. Oh,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in her house, yeah. And so it was like room
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and board.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: And a little bit of that. So the little thing
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: that I have was like, okay, are you going to
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: save this to send money to my parents? Because I
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: knew they were struggling in Venezuela all the time. And so,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: you know, the dollars converted into the Bolivar was a
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: lot more money. And so every time I was just
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: helping my parents. So during the time that I was here,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I leave, my cousin said, well, you know, I cannot
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: have you, unfortunately, anymore because, you know, I work so much. And,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: you know, she was going through divorce and, you know,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of things happening. So she introduced me to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: this family who eventually became my immediate family here. So
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I live with them. All this happened in Northern Virginia, right?
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And so... I said, OK, so I moved from her
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: house and to live with this family, which wonderful. You know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: she had this family have they're from from Ecuador. So
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: the culture, you know, Spanish culture was there and everything.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: She had two daughters, one year older than me and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: another one younger than me. So I would just fit
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: right in the middle. Right. So and they have an
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: extended family.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: It was amazing how much family they have. I mean,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: so I met them. And I mean, every time that
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: there was a party or Christmas party, they did not
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: need to invite anybody else away from their family because
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: it was so big of a family that they just said, okay,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: this is enough people. And so within the family, there's,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: you know, the cousins and, you know, one of the
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: cousins said, you old enough to go to a bar.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And I said, Well, not really, because I was 19.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: But I did have a fake ID, okay? So you
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: were already going to America. I had a fake ID,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and I said, you know, I want to.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, and I said, okay, I can use my
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: fake ID, so whatever. We're going to go to D.C.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: And then she changed her mind for some reason, and
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: she decided to go to the I-Club, which is a
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: marine and quantico base in North Virginia. Yeah. And I said, well, okay,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I guess I still need my fake ID. I didn't
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: have any, like, fancy clothes or nothing. I just had, like,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: a pair of jeans and a T-shirt. And I said...
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And she was like, oh, you're fine. You know, you
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: don't need to change and nothing. And so I said, okay.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: So we left. And then that's when I met this
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: handsome Marine named John Bobbitt, right? And so... I was like, well,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: you know, and I was very shy. I was, um,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, I grew up, you know, being Catholic, raised
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Catholic and the woman that I was living in the
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: family with their strict Roman Catholic. I mean, we went
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: to church every Sunday. Uh, we just, you know, the,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: the religion was really instilling me so strong. And so, um,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I said, okay. And then he asked me for my
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: phone number. And I said, no, no, I better not because, no,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I was just, my English was broken. I was going
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to have broken English. I couldn't understand, you know, him
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: too well. It was noisy. The music was a nightclub, right?
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: And my friend was like, well, you know, you got
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: to be careful because, you know, you don't want to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: give away your telephone number. And I said, yeah, you're right.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: it's not my telephone number is the house that I
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: was living in. Phone number is not in my personal
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: phone number. Remember we, this is all in, uh, late eighties, uh, 1990s, right.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Where there's no cell phone, uh, right now, you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: the technology is totally, yes, we hang him. Yes. And
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: that's it. Right. And every time, like when he called,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, miss, Mrs. Castro was the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: one answering one of the girls, um, answering. And so anyways, uh,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: So I was very shy. And then he asked me
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: to dance. And I said, no, I don't dance, which
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I lied because I love to dance. I mean, I
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: grew up dancing. My parents dance. I learned from them.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I love dancing. So but I was very shy. And,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: you know, and so and I was a virgin. I
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: was just this is like, wow, I'm just this is
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: so new to me. I don't know what love was.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: And so I was like, wow. You know, maybe I
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: should give him a chance. And so I give him
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the phone number.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer. The drawer. Just the one square
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: before bed. Or two, you know. Nobody's watching.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: You deserve a treat.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: flavor you favor with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Number. You did. And that was... Life changed. A mistake.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: So how long did you guys, did he court you?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: How long did you guys date?
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So I was at like less than 10 months, I
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: would say. And how did you communicate? Did you get
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: better with speaking English? Yes, because through the time, I mean,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: the little boy that I was taking care of, He
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: was learning English, and I was learning from him. Okay.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So sometimes I was like, okay, so I was speaking
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: like a four-year-old, and I'm like, this is not going
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: to work. I mean, so I have to learn English
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: as a second language at one of the community colleges.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And so I started to, you know, just turn the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: TV and, you know, just to practice, watch news, whatever
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: it was on TV at that time. So just to
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: practice reading the newspaper, reading magazines, you know, just practice.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: get interaction with, with American people. Right. And so when
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: I was going to college, the community college, I was actually,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: you know, learning about people. But what happened was that
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of international students there. Yeah. So I
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: learned a lot of, you know, there's like, for example,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I remember it was funny, um, I met this girl
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: and I didn't know she was from Brazil and obviously
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: they speak Portuguese so the way how we communicated was
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: like I was speaking Spanish she was speaking Portuguese because
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Portuguese and Spanish are very close to each other so
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: we understood each other right it's just kind of wild
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: but we understood each other even though we're speaking different
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: languages so and so I learned English eventually obviously right
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and still my you know kind of broken and kind
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: of didn't really understood much and You know, whenever I
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: have like a question or I just look at a dictionary,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I used to carry a little dictionary with me. So,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: you know, smart. So that helped me.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So then did it was it an immediate thing
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: where you guys got very close? Was he explain what
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: your relationship was like at the beginning?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Did he kind of become your family then?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Did you want to marry him because you were so
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in love with him or did school end and you
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: needed to go home?
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, so when the semester were ending, I was I
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: was paying a lot of money because I was going
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: to see they're out of town.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And so, oh, my God, it was so hard to
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: go to go back to school because, you know, it
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: just One credit was like $ 300 or $ 600 per credit
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and math was six credits. And so I needed to
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: make a lot of money. So I stopped school and
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: then to, you know, save some money to go back
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: to school. So while I was doing that, John was
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: in the radar. So he was always, you know, around
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: me and so calling me and I wanted to become
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: more involved, you know, as, as a boyfriend, girlfriend kind
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: of thing. So, and he would go to, to the
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: houses that I was working as a nanny, or he
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: would go to the house that I was living with
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: the family that was my family away from, from my
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: family here. So he will go and visit. And then
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: he became more like welcoming and like, and he was
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: very charming. He was very kind of, he was very handsome.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I was in love with his blue eyes and, you know,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: he represented, um, wow, this, this man that I, I
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: would like to marry him eventually. You know, he was
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: very kind, very, very, he was funny too in, in
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: ways that, you know, only he can make jokes and everything.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: It's just, and, and so he was very charming about
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: around people too. And so people like him, they, um,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: people who did not was kind of fun of him was, um,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: The two girls that I was the family.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: They didn't like. They did not like him for some reason.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think they saw something that I
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: didn't see because sometimes, you know, in all the time,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: every time I go out, he will forget his wallet.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And he was. Yes. So I was like, I never
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: really catch that up. Like, you know, like I never remember.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I never have a boyfriend.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: That was my he was my first boyfriend. So I
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: didn't really know what to expect on a relationship. And
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I wasn't, you know, I didn't grow up. I was
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the first of the girls. I didn't have a big
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: sister telling me, hey, you know, this is how men are.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: This is how guys, boys are.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: And so I never really have that. And my mom
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: was always busy working. So she never really took the
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: time to actually tell me, you know, a relationship between
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: a healthy relationship between a boy and a girl, a
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: man and a woman. Right. The only thing I had
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: was my parents talking. example, being married for so long.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: And I thought, well, you know, this is marriage. I'm
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: just going to go ahead and, you know, this is
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: the rest of my life, my marriage. I'm just going
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: to stay married forever.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like you were used to making a
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: little bit of money and doing, you know, giving it
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: to other people, sending it to your parents. So it
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: probably didn't affect you if he forgot his wallet and
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: you had to pay for things.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Right. It was like that. I mean, they say, well,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: money comes and go. You know, I was living... Paycheck
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: through paycheck. And so in the little money that I had,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I knew I had to save it for school when
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I had to come back and save enough to take
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: one math class or a history class or something that
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I needed to. So it was a very slow process,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: my education here, that it got frustrated. And I said,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: you know what? I needed to make more money. So
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I knew that the lady who I was working for,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: for her taking care of a child had a business.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I had a manicurist business, a salon. And I said,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: you know what? I'm just going to ask her to,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: if I can, you know, become a manicurist at her,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: one of the salons. Did you have to go through
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: training or she just taught you? So in Virginia, as
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: long as you have a training program, you, you become
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: grand grandfather because, you know, you have a training.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I had to go to school eventually. And then, um,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and present that I didn't really have to go to
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: school for nails, but somebody trained me, but I have
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: to take a test.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: So in order to get my license. And so I
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: did that and I became licensed, um, manicurist, nail technician,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: they call it. And so, um, I was working for
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: her and I was making a lot of money for, remember,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I didn't go to school. I didn't graduate college. At
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: that time in the 1990s, I was earning $ 35, 000 to $ 40, 000,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: which was an equivalent of now of like, what, $ 85, 000
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: now these days. So it was a lot of money.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It was comfortable.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: And that was very proud of me. I think that
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: was one of the most proud of things that I,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: you know, make a living for myself. I was more
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: independent and I was getting somewhere. And I had a job.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: And how, what else can you ask? I mean, you know,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you're living... basically the American dream here. But Joel was
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: always in the picture. And so he became my boyfriend.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: And eventually, you know, he was a Marine. And he,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: it was kind of weird now that, you know, I
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: talk about it. He found, he was working at the
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Marine Club, Quantico Base, I'm sorry. And he was the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: lifeguard there. in the pool. And so when he invited
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: me to go to swim and I went and so
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: he find a ring in the bottom of the pool
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: and that ring somebody else ring become my engagement ring
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: and he said look what I found and then it
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: was this golden ring with with a bow and I
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: said oh that's pretty but then I He come out
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: and I was at the edge of the pool. And
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: then he goes like, and he kneeled on me. And
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, what are you, what the heck are
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: you doing? And he said, would you become my wife?
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I want to marry you.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Just like that. And I was like, oh, I was like,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to say. But I said, so
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: this obviously wasn't planned. He found the ring. No, he was. Yes. Yeah.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: And decided to propose. He found it and he proposed it.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Did he ever get you a real ring?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: No.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: No.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Do you still have that ring?
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: No.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: All right, go. All right, go on. That's fascinating. And
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: then I went and told Mrs. Castro, the family that
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I was living in, and I said, look, I mean,
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: this is what's happening. And she freaked out. In a
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: good way or a bad way? Maybe both, maybe, because
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I can see her face of shock. And the girls
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: were like, oh, my God, oh, my God. And then
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: the husband was very quiet. He was like, he was
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: just laughing. He was like, oh, my God, that's so good. And,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: you know, he was very, very sweet. And then... Mrs.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Castro said, we have to call your mother. We have
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: to come, you know, we have to bring her here
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: because this is getting somewhere that, you know, I, I
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: cannot handle this. If you get married, you get pregnant.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: So all of this, she was taking care of me.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Like I was her daughter even more because of their
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: responsibility was more right. And so, and, uh, she was like, Oh, okay.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: So she came, my mother, my mother came and visit. And, um,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I remember she came around Thanksgiving one time. No, I'm sorry.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: She came. This is different. I'm getting confused with the
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: timing here because it was, oh my gosh, forgive me.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: It was a long time ago.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So I have to remember. So she came and then
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: she stayed at her cousin and then She came and
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: visited me for like a week or so. And then, um,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: she had, did she like John? She, she, I think so. Yeah. She,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: he was very likable among people. And so, um, yeah. And,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: but he didn't understand, they didn't understand because obviously my
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: mom doesn't speak English and, um, you know, so on Spanish.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And so, um, uh, Mrs. Castro advised me and say,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: she said, uh, Well, you know, you have to make
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: it more formal because how are you going to tell
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: your mom that you just engage? And it's like, well,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: it's not like I was getting married right, right away.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And so we went to this ice cream place and
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I told John, I said, John, I mean, you know,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I was advised that, you know, I'm going to take
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: off my ring and you're just going to, you know,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: just pretend again that you're asking me so my mom
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: can understand this. Like hacked it out.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: And so I told him that and then he went
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: alone and then my mom would say, oh, okay. Okay.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So it was more formal, you know, having a parent
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: present there and stuff like that. That's sweet. So yeah,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: it was very sweet. And then we ate the ice
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: cream and you know. And so, yeah. So at the beginning,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: there was no red flags. You guys were in love.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: There was no red flags. There was no red flags.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: He was good to you. You felt like he loved you.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Do you think he loved you for? Yes, I think so.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, I think so. I can say that.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: And so you were dating about 10 months and then
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you get married. So we were dating for about 10
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: months and we got married. And then you moved in together. Yes,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: we moved in together. I was still, you know, we
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: moved into an apartment. The first apartment we lived in
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: was very, very small. Just a room. It's a studio apartment.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: There's no room division. There's just a kitchen and a
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: living room. And like whatever you put the bed is your,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: you know, your place to sleep. That's it. So we
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: were there for like a week. And, um, so when
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: we were there in that apartment, this tiny apartment, um,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I have a call from her mother. Oh, his mother.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. From John's mother, which actually wasn't, it wasn't
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: his biological mother. It was the aunt that he, she
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: raised him. And so, um, And he was like, oh, hi,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I heard you just moved into a new place, blah, blah, blah.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah, we just tried to start a new life, whatever.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: And then, so as a couple, you know, and so
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: he said, can I talk to John? And so I said, okay,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you know, your mom wanted to talk to you. And
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: he was talking and all I hear was like, uh-huh, yes, uh-huh.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And that was it. So the next thing I know,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, so we're going to go the weekend
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: to Niagara Falls. And I said, oh, okay, let me,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: because my mom wanted, she heard that we just got married.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: And so she wants to throw, you know, the family,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: my family wanted to throw us a wedding party, whatever.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay. And so I packed my summer white,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: it was a summer white dress. that I bought, like
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: a TJ Maxx or Marshalls, you know, this department discount store.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And then I said, okay. And I had this flower
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: that I made it myself. I went to Michael's and
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I just, you know, crafted it together. Yeah. And so
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: the 80s and the 90s were wearing big rings and
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. And everything was just nice, right? So,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: and I just packed that. And he packed his... I
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: think it's called blue dress when Marine dress blues or whatever,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: whatever it's called in Marine uniform, right? Very handsome. And then, um,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: so we got there, uh, when we got to Niagara Falls,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I said, where are we? And he said, we're at
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: the church. And so I was like, my goodness. And
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I have shorts on and I have a tank top
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: because it was summertime, you know, we drove there and, um,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: He opened the door and there was nobody at the church.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: No one. And I said, hmm, maybe we're like early
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: or maybe, you know, I hope it's not late. But
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: he said no. So we went to the house and
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: they were very, they were living in, they live in
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: areas where I guess you have. Okay. So they are
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: from Niagara Falls, but they were camping in Canada. Okay. So.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: And so we have to cross the border. And remember,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I was just had this, the student visa. I was, um,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: my immigration papers were in the works because I just
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: got married. And so, um, my paperwork of becoming a
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: citizenship was in process. Okay. So I didn't have a passport.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't have anything, but John choose cross, try to
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: cross the border. And, um, I said, wow, you know,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: this is kind of scary. I didn't realize that knowing
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: and coming from another country, I knew that you have
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: to have a passport. And then he just went. And
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: the police came following us. And it was immigration, you know,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: from Canada. And said, what are you guys doing? And
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: whatever he said, the police officer was upset. He pulled
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: me out of the car and said, we're going to
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: have to stay here. And they detained me for like,
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: my God, it was like eight hours. Tried to see
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: where I come from that, you know, why would I
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: cross the border without a passport? And they investigate him.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: He was a Marine. It was it was really bad.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, so I think the communication with
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: him was good. It was a red flag, but I
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: didn't know that because— and I said, well, you know, I
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: wish you would have told me. I would be more prepared.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Same thing with the church. We were supposed to be
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: there a day before. We were late one day. So
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: when we finally got to the camping ground, the parents
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: were upset because we were a day later to God
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: for the church. So they were trying to surprise you.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: They were trying to surprise us. And I said, well,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: there's no communication with your mom. I just answered the phone,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: but she didn't say anything to me. She talked to John,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: you know, so that kind of thing. And so they
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: throw a little, you know, party in the campground and everything.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: And I had to wear, they bring a cake. They,
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: you know, and so it was sweet. It was nice.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: By the time that the party was over, He decided
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: to go. He didn't tell me where to go. He
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: decided to go with the boys, with her his brothers
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: and I came back and I I talked to the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: mother I said where's John I mean you know it's
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: been going for like you know five hours and so
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: and and I need to talk to him I need
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: to know what's happening he went to a place that
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: in Canada is um I think it's not illegal to
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: have sex. So he went to a strip club and
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: have a lot of, you know, ladies who sleep around with.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: And I didn't know. Yes. And I did not know that.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: This was right after you got married. This is right
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: after I got married. I have no idea he went
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: into that. So when he came back, I asked her,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: I said, where did you go? And he didn't tell me.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: His brother was the one who said something. And I said, well,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: you know what? I am tired of this. I was
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: very upset. I want to go back home, back to Virginia.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: And I said, I'm just going to, you know, drive
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: this car. So I packed my bags and I said
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: thank you to the family for everything, for the party
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: that they throw us, blah, blah, blah. And that's, you know,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: one of the most famous pictures that you see. was
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: him and I dressed, you know, without me, the white dress,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: and he has this marine suit on. And that was
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: at the campground. That was our wedding party. And so
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I went back to the car. So that wasn't necessarily
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: a happy time. It was not a happy time. It
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: was not a happy time because I didn't know that
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: he was going to act that way.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: So I just feel like, you know, very odd. Very.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: It was really an odd place to be to. And
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: so I didn't know how to react to him. So
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: when we come back to the car, I saw extra
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: bags in there. And it was his brother coming to Virginia.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: And I thought, I figured, okay, we're going to give
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: him a ride to Virginia. And little did I know,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: he was moving in with us. Oh, wow. And so...
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: So things changed when you guys got there. Things kept
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: changing for the worse.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: So, okay, what's interesting about your story is, we've mentioned before,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: people know what happened. They know the act. But they
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: don't know about the domestic violence. They don't know about
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: the history, about the why. Right. And they focus on
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: just the act. Yes.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: So when did the abuse start? So when we came
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: back to the apartment and his brother Todd came, And
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I said, okay, I would like to celebrate. And I
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't happy that his brother came and lived with us
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: in that tiny apartment. But I told him just to
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: ease up and everything. I was just so tired and,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: you know, just uncomfortable believing with not only my husband.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer. The drawer. Just the one square
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: before bed. Or two, you know. Nobody's watching.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: You deserve a treat.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: With eight flavours to choose from, you can choose the
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: flavour you favour with Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: But, you know, another man there, So I said, look,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, why don't we just go and celebrate our
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: first month of being married? And I'm going to have
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: a paycheck coming in and I'm going to have money.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And we should treat us for the two of us,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I said, for first night, you know, restaurant and a
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: steak dinner or whatever in D.C. And so he agreed.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: So we went and we we. Went to D.C. and
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: then John was not dressed for that restaurant. He had
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: jeans on. And they said, well, we're going to let
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: you in, but your boyfriend, they thought it was my boyfriend,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the bouncer said, he won't be able to come in.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: It was a nightclub type of restaurant.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: So I said, okay. So I said, OK, we decided
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: to go to another bar or he decided to go
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to another bar that, you know, they allow him to
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: get in the way he was dressed up. And so
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: he decided to drink and, you know, tequilas and all
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: kinds of drinks, you know, whatever. I don't know if
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: he knew the difference between not mixing alcohol.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Because it really can get to you. How old was
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: he at this time? So he is 20. Two years
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: older than me. So he was 20. So that he
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: was 20. No, I was a knight. I was just
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: turned 20. Okay. Because my birthday is May 15th. I
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: have a birthday coming up. That's my daughter's birthday. Oh,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: May 15th. Oh, sweet. Sweet girl, by the way. And
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I just turned 20 and we got married on June 18th.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: So one month after my 20th birthday. And so I still...
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I wasn't legal to drink, so I didn't really drink
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: a lot because I was afraid. And I'm not a
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: big drinker anyways, but he was old enough to drink.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: And so he and his brother were the one drinking
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: a lot. So I said, okay, well, I have to
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: drive because obviously you can't drive. And he insisted. He
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: took the car keys away from me, and he wanted
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: to drive. His brother was wasted. I mean, oh my gosh,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: he couldn't even walk. And was John pretty drunk too?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: And John was drunk. And I said, oh my God.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: So in the highway, in the main highway, we were like,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: you know, going back and forth, left and right, like
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: zigzagging and very aggressively. And some of the cars were
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: honking on us. And, you know, just to make us
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: aware that, you know, what are you doing? Whoever's driving
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: is dangerous. I mean, you guys are, A lot of
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: people roll down the window insulting us, you know, giving
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: us the thing, you know, it's just bad. And I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: was so scared. And so I took the wheel of
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: him because one of those things, he was going too
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: close to a car and, you know, to cause an accident.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: So when I took the wheel on to, you know,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: kind of maneuver the wheel, he punched me for the
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: very first time in my stomach and in my chest.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: And while I was in shock and I was, all
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I did was cry. Yeah, while he was driving with
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: one hand, he just took and punched me that way.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: And I said, I have no way to say anything.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: I was such in shock and I was crying. And,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: you know, the whole way up to when we got home,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: I was still crying. I just could not believe I
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: was in shock. And so he dragged me out of
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: the car by my hair. and continued to beat me
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: up at the apartment. In front of the brother? Oh,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: in front of the brother. The brother was passed out. Yeah,
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: but it was in front of him.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: And this was the first time he had ever done
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: anything like this?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Was that the first time he had ever been that
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: drunk in front of you? Yes.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: So do you think it had something to do with
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: the alcohol? I think it has something to do with
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: the alcohol as well, yes. But I don't know if
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: that triggered his anger or whatever it was.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: So it must have been shocking that this person that
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: you thought loved you and you loved was all of
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a sudden this new Mahezer. Right.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: And so I said, his personality totally changed. He continued
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: abusing me and he kicked me in the stomach when
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: we got into the apartment. A guard, a police officer,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: saw that because we didn't have any curtains, obviously. So
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: it's the apartment, it's a big window. So he was
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: guarding around the apartment area. He was walking around and
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: he saw what was going on. And he decided to
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: knock at the door. And when John opened the door,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: he thought it actually was his brother coming because he
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: was drunk in the car. He stayed at the car.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: He was in the car, yeah. And so he opened
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: the door because I bet you he would not open
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: the door if he knew there is somebody else or
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: a police officer because he was such a coward.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: And then then he opened that door and he saw
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: this man in uniform as a police officer. And he asked,
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: I just saw something going on. I just want to
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: know if she's OK. And he pointed me and I
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: was crying. I was, you know, devastated. And I couldn't
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: even talk. You know, it's just embarrassing. It was a shame.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to say about that situation or
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: what to even expect from that. But the police officer
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: asked me if I have a place to go for
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: the night. And I said, no, I don't. have a
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: place to go. But I live anyways. And I left.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: I took my car and I slept in the car.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Tried to be safe. And tried to make up something
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: out of the story.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: Because I couldn't comprehend why my husband The one who
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: promised to love me was doing this to me, was
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: doing such things.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: You know, abusive physically. Yeah. And treat me that way.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: So this was the first time and it's right after
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: you get married and the brother's now living with you.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: So you eventually go back. Obviously, you go back home.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Was he normal? Did he apologize?
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Was it like a honeymoon phase?
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, people will ask later, obviously, why you stay.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: So....
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: When domestic violence happens, and we have to make awareness
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: of this, what is domestic violence? Domestic violence is based
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: on control, is rooted on control, and the perpetrator usually
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: is giving you all or actually putting all kinds of
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: force on you, whether it's physical and mentally or physical abuse,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: emotional abuse towards you. is control. So they try to
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: always control, you know, by abusing you in this many
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: kinds of abuse, right? So I said to myself, okay,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: so this is not going to happen again. We're going
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: to have to talk it over. And of course he
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: came back and he said, he apologized. He said he
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: will never do it again. He was sorry. And I
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: believed him. I really do. I believed him because I
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: loved him. I was married to him. I thought this
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: was going to be only one incident. And I was scared.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay, I just, you know, we're just
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: going to have to, you know, be quiet about it.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: You're not going to tell anybody what happened. And that
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: was it. So it was a honeymoon. And so I
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: didn't know that. that another abuse came, and then another
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: honeymoon was coming. You know, that's the cycle of abuse, right?
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: So I felt trapped. So how much of this cycle,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: how many years, months, whatever.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: It was, did the cycle of abuse then continue until
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: June 22, 1993?
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: So we were married for four years. And during the time,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: he was leaving me back and forth, back and forth.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And so— Going where? Going to leave the house. Going
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: back to— So he wasn't going away for work or something?
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: He was leaving me. Like, he would pack his bag,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: his suitcase, and he would leave. Saying he was going
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: on a trip or he would fight with you and say,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: I'm out of here. Saying that he would just leave me,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: that he doesn't like, you know, whatever or whatever. But
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: during the time, anything could trigger him. Okay. Yeah. Anything
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: could be like, for example, if I don't cook right
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: or if I cook Latin American food, he will expect
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: a hamburger or something like that. Then he'll be like,
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I won't eat this. This is food for whatever Latinos
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: or I don't eat this.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: So anything like that and then So it started to
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: become normal that he would fly off the handle.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, he will fly off the handle. Yeah, he will
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: fly off the handle. And, you know, so whatever reason
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: one time was because I think I cooked mashed potatoes
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: and the mashed potatoes were not hot enough. You know,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: it's stupid things like that that, you know, my goodness,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: you know, all the... Why don't you talk it over
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: instead of, you know, using physical violence or whatever? So
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I knew that I.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I was always scared, but I was trying to please
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: him because as a wife, as a growing up, when
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I was a child, I saw my mother and my father.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: And my father is very passive. Obviously, he's never abusive.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I never see any abuse, you know, from my father.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, it's like, okay, this
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: is what I'm supposed to be. I'm a wife. You know,
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to please my husband. I'm supposed to... So
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: all of this, whether it's My religion was saying, okay,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Catholic girls, you know, would not get divorced. You know, society,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I was ashamed, you know, to talk to my co-workers
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: about what happened, whatever incident I have. And then the
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: abuse were not only escalated emotionally and psychologically and physically,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: but until actually forcing sex on me. And so marital rape, right? Yeah.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: So it didn't start that way. It was more physical abuse. No,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: it did not start that way. Punching, hitting, kicking. Right.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Verbal abuse. Yeah, verbal abuse, demeaning, belittling you. You know,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: so it was not economical abuse, though, because I was
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: the one who made more money than him. And so,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: but I know a lot of women suffer from, you know,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: economically abuse because they depend on their husband to support
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: and they're dependent. So... But in my case, it was not.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: That was not my abuse. But he would take money
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: from my bank account. So in a way, it was
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: abuse because all the earnings that I had, and I
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: remember the teller, she was so sweet. I used to
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: do her nails, and I used to bank across the
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: street from, I think it was Bank of America at
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: that time. And so she would be like, you know what,
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: we saw John today and he took like $ 300 from
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: your account. And she would tell me that, you know,
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: and I said, oh my God, because she knew that
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: every time I used to call the bank and my
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: checks will bounce because I didn't have enough money. And
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: I said, why? I did not have money when I'm
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: the one who putting all this money, every paycheck, every
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: two weeks, I had to put, my paycheck in the
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: bank to pay for the house, to pay for the bills,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: to pay for food and to pay for cars, right?
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Like they cost money to, you know, gas, electric, you know, whatever.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: And then it was that kind of thing that eventually
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: we'll fight about it. Why you took money out?
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: And it was a legitimate thing, you know, me questioning
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: my husband, what the heck is going on? But he
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: did not like that. He did not like me to
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: question him what's going on with something so important that
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: is the money that is not in the bank anymore
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: to pay for the rent of the house or for anything, right,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: for food. He will take the money and he will
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: buy flowers. And then all of a sudden, in my
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: credit card, right, he took my credit card. And all
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, I will have a statement saying a hotel,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: like the Holiday Inn or whatever. And I said, wait
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: a minute. We were not, I was not in the
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: Holiday Inn this weekend. I was not in or this
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: day or Friday. Or you told me, you know, so
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: he will do in this.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: He was doing this behind your back. Right, cheating and
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: stuff like that.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: And I said, wow. And so, of course, we were
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: fine about that because it was a legitimate thing for
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: me to ask as a wife. Where have you been?
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Right. Okay.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: So it seems like he, for somebody who didn't really
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: have a stable job, that you were supporting him, you know,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: he was probably very angry inside about a lot of
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: that and ended up taking a lot of that out
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: on you.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Well, he didn't ask, he didn't like to be questioned either. So,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: of course, we fight and then the abuse will be
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: escalating there. And, you know, so I remember... So how
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: often was it happening? Um... Gosh, I wasn't really. It
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: was quite often because, you know, between him not having
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: a job, between him not or, you know, taking money
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: out of the bank or my account or our account
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: because it was joint. And between, you know, him doing,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: you know, stupid things like, for example, at the Marine Corps,
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: he will go through a wall and then he will
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: come back angry and then He said they suspended me
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: because I went, I hit a wall in the car
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: when he was driving or something. And they will do that.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: You know, the Marines will not put up with them, period.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: We will not put up with him hitting walls or,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: you know, making any mistakes, you know. So they will
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: do something like, I don't know what they would do.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I guess he was so angry. They said just stay
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: home for like a week or something. Or they were
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: just not paying him. So there were problems like that.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, the abuse, the more intense the
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: problem was, the more intense the abuse was.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense. Of course, 100%.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: So, and then let's briefly talk about the sexual assault.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's back then, especially, you know, marital abuse,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: no one really understood that. And even today, I think,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: you know, when you bring that up, they, you know,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: marital rape, excuse me, people will say, Well, wait a minute.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: How is that rape? You're married.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Isn't that what sex, you know, that's having sex with
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: your spouse. So Let's talk about that, because I think
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: right at that time, marital rape was something that was
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: put into law, right? I think in all 50 states
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: that that was considered criminal.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: But there were certain things you had to, categories you
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: had to fall under to make it be considered marital rape.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: You had to be separated, I think. Yes, you had
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: to be separated and to be considered separated. Virginia did not...
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: have the law to protect women at the time. And
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: like you said, the 50 states did not recognize marital
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: rape in the late 80s, early 90s. And that's just impossible.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Who can say that your husband raped you, right? That's ridiculous.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: But even now in some of the states, unfortunately, you know,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: there's terms in the law that's saying, you know what,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: your husband raped you. Maybe it's not considerable. Marital rape
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: is a sexual assault and, you know, in level one
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: or sexual assault on level two. And let's just not
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: punish him enough because he is your husband.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Right. As opposed to a stranger. And even now.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: So in Virginia, when, after, you know, my case happened and, and, um,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: and it was a big talk about, you know, um,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: involving advocates and, um, people who actually wanted to said
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: hey you know feminists you know they hang out to
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: that and said um you know this is the time
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: this is the time that we have to come up
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: and say you know and say that we need a
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: lot to protect women that husbands rape and and so
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: that happened but um he was not charged you know
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: i'm sorry he went to trial for a spousal assault
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: right and um Eventually, he got acquitted. But before that,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: people did not consider marital rape as something that... How
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: are you going to present that in court?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Right. And I can imagine it's so hard to prove.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's behind closed doors.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: It was. It was behind closed doors. But that time,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: that night, the event that put us both on trial
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: and sent me to trial, right? That was the.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: The time that we said, hey, you know what, this
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: happened because when they did a rape kit on me,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: they found out his sperm, right, in my vagina. So
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: obviously something happened. I mean, women can produce sperms, you know,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: where is this coming from?
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think the question and still people,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: you know, will argue, you know, is it consensual?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Is it not because you're married?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: But there's a there is like a silver lining there because,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: you know, you, you, you have to find certain things that,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: you know, how you prove this, what happened.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: You know? Right. And, and it's very, I know what
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: you're saying. I know what you're trying to say, but, but, um,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: in this case, he has been doing this before.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: And, you know, I said that, and the unfortunate thing
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: was that, um, We were not or the prosecutor was
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: not allowed to present the marital rape and the sexual
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: assault more than five days. In his case. In his case.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right. So we'll get to that one thing
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: because that is very important because he was acquitted.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Yes. Didn't show the history.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: So up until the night in question, you guys have
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: been married for how many years? So....
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: It was about four years. Okay.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like four of the years you were
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: enduring the domestic violence. Yes. And the sexual assaults. And
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: it had been getting worse and worse. And the cops
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: had been called a number of times.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is correct. And you had been documenting it,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: getting pictures and... Right.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: And eventually, and we come to see, especially in watching
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: your documentary, which I really didn't know this, but the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: fact that you had so many witnesses come forward.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: The drawer.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: Just the one square before bed. Or two, you know.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: Nobody's watching. You deserve a treat. With eight flavors to
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: choose from, you can choose the flavor you favor with
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: Cadbury Dairy Milk.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: You know, all of that was forgotten, I think.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: And the documentary really talks about this like unsung hero
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: and this, you know, a person who you happen to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: be doing her nails and she noticed bruises all up
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: your arm. And she, it felt like from watching your
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: story that she really saved, you know, the outcome of
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the case because she really saw She could testify that
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: this had happened in the past. It wasn't just on
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: the night in question. Yes.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: A lot of people saw bruises on me, a lot
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: of people. And until this day, I'm so grateful that
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: I have so many witnesses. And, you know, we have
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: to have the proven burden of proof. Yes. So we
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: have to.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: And so we also have to make sure the facts,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: the factual events and collect everything. Every evidence is there
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: to present to the jury. And in my case, it
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: was a lot. It was a lot of evidence. It
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: was a lot of 2%. It was not only the
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: testimonies of the people, the clients that saw me, friends
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: and other people, my clients that saw me, but it
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: was also testimonies of experts, psychologists, psychiatrists, and doctors. So
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: it was a lot to... You know, process. Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: And did anyone try to step in before the night
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: that it all happens? Did anyone try to stop him,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: have a conversation with him, have a conversation with you
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: about leaving? So or did everybody mind their own business?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: So a lot of people mind their own business. But
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I was telling my neighbors, I said, you know what,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm ready. I'm fit up. I'm ready to go.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: And I just don't want to be married anymore. I mean,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: this is horrible. I don't feel happy anymore. And, you know,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: it's just one neighbor, I remember Miss Ella Jones, she
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: was my neighbor. She was an abused spouse before. And
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: she would give me some pamphlets, some literature on espousal abuse.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: Because I remember there was no shelters around that I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: could go to. There was no resources. in the early 90s.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about 35 years ago. There was
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: no national domestic violence hotline that I could call. And
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: your parents weren't here. And my parents were not here. Right.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: My parents, yeah, there's no home for me to go back.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: I couldn't go back to Mrs. Castro House, my cousin's house,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: and say I have been abused because I was ashamed.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: I was embarrassed. And, you know, victim blaming, it's really happened.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: And that's the most important thing, too, that You know,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: I was just very ashamed. And I believe that I
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: was sometimes it's my fault because he used and manipulate
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: me saying that this is your fault or this has
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: happened because of, you know, you question me so much
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: or this and that. And, you know, this is terrible
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: because a lot of women don't have a place to go.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: But now they do. Now we have shelters, right? Things
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: have changed through the years. So we have done a
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: lot of improvement. to save victims of domestic violence and
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. But at the
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: same time, it's like, okay, there's a revolving door that,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: you know, you leave the abuse and it's a process.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: And women take up to seven times to leave their
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: abusive husband or abusive relationship of intimate partner violence because
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: you know, they, they don't feel that, oh, they, they
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: believe that they can fix again the marriage or if
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: their children, their pets and, um, they simply love them
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: or their husband said, I want to change or something.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: And they believe them or they choose economically dependent.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: Right. Exactly. Okay.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about that night.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: Um, from what, well, why don't you tell me what
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: your members, first of all, just to quickly tell me,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: what was your frame of mind that night?
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: I know he went out, um, right. He went out,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: you worked late. He went out with him. I work late.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. You were saying, no, no. Okay. So I was,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: I work very late. I always work late. I had
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: two jobs and, uh, I work late, very late, because
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the salon closes at 8 o'clock. By the time I
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: was home, it was 9 o'clock, 9.30. I was exhausted,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: so I fell asleep. and obviously he was not home.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: And who knows where he was? I have no idea.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: And you had someone staying with you also that time.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: You always have people staying with you. There's always people.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: There's always somebody. My sexual life, my marriage sexual life
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: was not normal because there's no way. How can you
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: be intimate with your husband when somebody else is there
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: living with you, right? You just can't. It's just impossible.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: And it's embarrassing. No, no way. So, yeah, there's his friend.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: He brought his friend, one of his best friends. best
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: friends to live with us. And his name was Robbie.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: And I said, oh my gosh. So, oh my gosh.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: So in one apartment, we have one bedroom. That apartment
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: had one bedroom. Finally, we have a one bedroom apartment,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: you know, doors and closing doors and everything. So in
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: our living room, he went to Home Depot to buy
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: this plywoods. To put up a wall. Oh, my God.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: And so, of course, I was like asking what was
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: going on. So he wasn't going home anytime soon. No, exactly.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: So I said, you know, this is illegal because we're
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: renting and you cannot construct another room in the living
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: room because, you know, this is totally illegal. And so,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: of course, we're going to have a fight there. So
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: every time something happened, you would have a fight. Like
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: I said, it was like, yes, I mean, I would
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: question things because this is not normal. And he will
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: fight me.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: And I said, no, I can put a wall. And
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: my friend Robbie is going to stay here with living
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: with us. And I said, yeah, but, you know, I
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: will have to even move or you guys have to
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: take over the lease. There was a fight for that, too,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: because I said, I'm not going to be on the
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: lease anymore. You're going to have to sign. And of course,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: he didn't have any good credit because he he didn't
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: have a job. You know, he was bouncing around. from
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: job to job and he never really have a stable income,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: a stable job. So there was a, you know, it
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: was arguments because of that, his job, he couldn't retain
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: a job. He didn't make any money. He wasn't a
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: good provider. And, and then the questions about building up
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: another room in the living room where we're, you know,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: supposed to. So of course we're going to have arguments
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: and then he will be freaking out and And abused
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: me physically and raped me. And it's just, you know,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: a very traumatic experience to be. So I was trying to,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: you know, walk around eggshells.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: Around him.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: I see.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: So that night, you get home late, you were exhausted,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: you go to sleep. I know that you had had
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: bruises already on you because I heard the testimony from...
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: the woman who had seen you at the nail salon
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: two days before. And so you already had obviously had
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: a very bad beating in, you know, the recent days,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: whatever it was. Right. So, but that night, were you
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: guys fighting? Were you not speaking?
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: I was not speaking at all because I was, I
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: was exhausted. I said, you know what? This doesn't go,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: it's not going to go anywhere. I was just going
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: to go ahead and eventually find out a place to
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: live or, you know, my own, whatever. And that was it,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: And he comes home at what he says is 3.15
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: in the morning with his friend. Yeah. And he gets
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: in bed and he says he doesn't remember much. But
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: what is your recollection of those moments? So, Rachel, I
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: think I... You said a documentary. I made a documentary.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: I made a movie about it.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily have to go to those places because
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: I don't, you know... It's all in the documentary. And
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: people are welcome to see it. Which people should see.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: In prime time, yes. It's Amazon Prime. And I think
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: it's important to this new generation also. And I made
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: the documentary and movie because of that. Because I wanted
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to create awareness. I wanted to create something that visual
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: and visualize. I mean, most people are more visual. And
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: it's there.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: Well, the reason why I ask, and I understand that,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: but the reason why I ask is because people, I think,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: when they hear about what happened, don't understand if there
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: had to be something that happened that moment for you
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: to retaliate the way you did. And what we learn
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: later and have learned from you is that this was,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: you know, battered woman syndrome. It's, you know, it's something
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: that accrued over time and.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: It didn't just happen overnight. That moment.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: And, you know, the feelings were building up and building
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: up until what you say is you snapped that night.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily say I know that it's overrated snap
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: because the feelings. Well, what word would you use? I'm sorry.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: I should have put words in your mouth. Well, I
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: am not the doctor, you know, I'm not a psychology,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: but I think is the accumulation of Of those, you know, feelings.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: It's just my mind just couldn't take it anymore. My
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: body couldn't take it anymore. The escalations of being diagnosed
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: as a battered women's syndrome. It's just that everything that,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: you know. And, you know, a lot of people get
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: confused because a lot of people said, okay, so the legal...
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: aspect of it will say, okay, so, you know, you
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: have other avenues to take and you could leave, you know,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: you could do this, you could go away. But the
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: psychological aspect will say something else that, you know, you
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: always being a battered woman means that you always live
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: in fear. So something is going to be there, you're
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: always going to have or being in a survivor mode.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: A survival mode is when you always live in fear
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: and you learn to cope with those feelings, but you
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: always are afraid. And that was very difficult to understand,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: even for me, because even though I lived through that,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, I lived through those episodes of abuse and, yes, being.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Victim of domestic violence and abuse and rape, marital rape,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: I know that something happened to me, that my body,
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: my mind, I was not in the right mental stage. Sure.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, it's just so much accumulation of
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: that abusiveness.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's interesting because people hear the story
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: and they make judgments or they say what they would
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: have done. Oh, if that happened to me, I would
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: have done this. But I don't think anyone could really
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: say what they would do unless they were in that situation.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. They just really don't know.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: And they've probably never been through something that traumatic or
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: to feel the feelings that you felt. And I think
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: it's important for people to remember that you didn't need
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: to have had one occurrence, you know, that night. to
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: do such an extreme thing for you. It was over
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: the course of time and something happened to make you,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to use the word snap again.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: So something happened.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: To make you act out in a way that you
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: felt like you had no other options.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: And it just, that's what happened. That's right. And I,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, it's funny because I always
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: tell my daughter because, you know, and we, we tend
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: to judge, right? I mean, And I judge when I
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: was a teenager, of course, you know, but then when
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: being literally judged in the core of that, it teach
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: me a lesson. It teach me not to be more
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: empathic and have sympathy for others as well. Right. Because
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: those two things, because not only, you know, I feel
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: the pain, the empathy of an abused women or women
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: of survivor who is going through domestic violence. But I
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: also I'm sympathetic with them because I know, I know.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: So I feel the pain and I know the pain that,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: you know, this women are living and even men too,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: and in children, you know, so domestic violence is a
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: social epidemic as they call it, because it is not
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: only here in the United States, but around the world. And,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: you know, when you, when I go out with my friends,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: and I see a table of four ladies or four
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: young ladies, and I said, wow, the statistic of one
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: out of four women is abused, but have experienced an
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: intimate partner violence. If that statistic is true, that statistic
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: comes alive right there when I see those four girls. Absolutely.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: One of them. So it is very sad that that
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: people judge or make judgments because what they heard in
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: the news or what they simply don't know. And it's
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: very important to, and this is what I told my daughter,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, when you, before you judge, make
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: sure you know and gather all your factual things, your
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: facts is important because that makes who you are. And
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: it's a difference between an educated opinion versus an uneducated opinion.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: And it's with anything. It's with a person. It's when
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: you wanted to buy a pair of shoes, you try
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: it on, see if you like it, you know, or
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: a TV or a car.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, Lorena, you could say this with such authority
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: because you've been through it. I say the same thing
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: to my daughter because, you know, in this day and age,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: it's interesting that so many people want to comment. on
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: every subject and want to be a part of it
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: and think that they know about these subjects and have opinions.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: And they don't know the people. They don't know the story.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: They've never been through anything remotely like it. And, you know,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: you see people reading gossip magazines or looking at gossip
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: and reading social media and TikTok and having an opinion, even.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: A political opinion.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: And, you know, it's so I always am saying to
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: my daughter when I hear them gossiping about whatever, You
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: don't know those people. You don't know why. You don't
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: know if what you're reading is true. You don't know
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: how they felt. You don't know anything about that. You
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: don't know anything about it. And when you hear people
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: dislike someone, why? How could you just, do you know them?
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: Have you spent any time with them? And then when
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: they fall in love with somebody and they're enamored, why?
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: What do you know about that person? You know, so
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm very similar that I'm always like,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: you have to have an educated opinion.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: Opinion.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: It's the biggest, like, that's the biggest thing that I
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: tell people.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: Yes. Plus, it makes who you are. You are representing yourself.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: And plus, I tell her, you know, but... just go
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: ahead and be good and represent us well. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: That's easier. Yeah, because it's just really a matter of
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: who you are. And, you know, look at yourself in
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: the mirror. And before you say something, you know, you
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: just have to understand the whole aspect of it. You know,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: see the whole picture with the four corners, not just,
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: you know, a mirror that is telling you, oh, I
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: heard this and I'm going to, make because they can
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: also opinions can be misinformative as.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: Well of course so okay let me just get back
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: to the night for one second because then you know
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: the police get involved obviously um i'm curious were you
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: ever you were never in.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: Jail were you no i was never in jail.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: So john never pressed charges is that how that why
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: didn't i don't understand because if that happened now i
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: feel like that person would know right immediately.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: So so uh the way i went was that um
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: My friend took me to the magistrate, and then, you know, obviously,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: she was doing the speaking. I wasn't even reading the
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: Miranda rights. Like, you had the right of an attorney
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: or something. That's what a lot of things happened. It
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: got complicated because I say things that it was misunderstood,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: and it was not completely... And I should have had
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: an attorney present because of my broken English and the
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: way how I can speak. And they were interrogating me.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Do you require the hospital at the police station? Yeah,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: I was just, you know, and he let me go.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: And it was very late at night. So I left.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: But he said, you have to go to the hospital.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: And during the time that I was in the hospital
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: to get the, it was ironic because We're in the
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: same hospital. He was in the other side of the hospital.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: I was in the other side of the hospital. So
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: he was obviously being treated for, you know, his, you know.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: dismembered his penis. Yeah. I try to be gently.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: We're trying to reattach him.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know how.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: At this point, I'm just curious. Were you asking about,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: were you like, is he okay? Or you were angry? So, no,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: I was not. I would not use angry because I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: was more in shock.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: I was scared. And I was scared. I didn't know
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: the outcome of the situation, which just happened. Right. Because
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: at this point, I still didn't know what happened.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: But it was only, you know, two people involved and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: one person is injured this way. Obviously, you know, it's
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: obviously then the other person did it. Right. So I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: put this two and two together and I said, OK, well,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: you know, I did this.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: And I was.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: Interrogated by the police officer and so many questions flowing
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: around while, you know, I was naked and just, I mean,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: not naked that the police officer would see my body,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: but I was just, you know, with a hospital robe
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: that they give you, you know, just very, and it
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: was intimidating. And I didn't know what to say. I
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: didn't know what was going on. And I didn't understand
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: many things. So it was very difficult for me to
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: go through that.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: So eventually your names get released in the paper, which
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: is where I think the story really turns, because obviously
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: you were dealing with your own turmoil, the shock. You know,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: the confusion, the figuring out what's going to happen next
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: legally and with your husband.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: But then, you know, a news outlet releases your names
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: and then your life, I'm assuming, changed. What happened from
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: that moment on? I mean, you became a joke. You
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: became a headline.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: So, yes, I am. And national, international level, not just
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: in your little town. No, it was it was just
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: like all over. It was amazing. It was people around
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: my house with cameras. And when I came back during the,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: you know, the whole time, it was really, it was
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: an explosion of something. Remember, we did not have the internet.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sorry. There was something called the World
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Wide Web, which is, you know, but we didn't have Google.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: We didn't have social media. Times were different. And even
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: though times were different back then, it was a big deal.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: It was a sensationalism of everything.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: They think you're done for the day, but they don't
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: know about the drawer. The drawer. Just the one square
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: before bed. Or two, you know. Nobody's watching.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: You deserve a treat.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: With eight flavors to choose from, you can choose the
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: flavor you favor.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: My picture was all over. It was, you know, the
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: news who circle around the globe, the whole world. It
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: was a, you know, I never really expect that. I
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: thought it was me and my husband issues only. And
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden I find myself in the middle
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: of this speculating and tabloid and yes, and jokes.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I just want to remind people that this
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: was a time when tabloid news was like really at
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: the forefront.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: It was just becoming something big.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: And it was stories like, I think it was a
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: little bit after you or maybe during, but Tonya Harding
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: and Nancy Kerrigan and the Menendez brothers, you know, killing
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: their parents and, you know, all sorts of different things
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: that were, you know, Amy Fisher and Joey Buttafuqua.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: All these things were huge stories that the public could
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: not get enough of. So your story was, you know,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: even more thrilling for people because it was like, it
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: was so... crazy but at the same time you started
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: to see women that would say oh she did what
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: I wish I could do um and you know but
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: would never imagine that I you know could get away
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: with so it was everyone had their own opinion and
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: men were cringing and women were either cheering you on
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: or maybe making other judgments but how did you get
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: through that what you know you were living you went
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: and lived with your boss is that where you ended.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: Up so um yeah you're right I mean you know
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: um you hit the nail right on the head because,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: you know, times were very difficult where the tabloids were,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: have a free for all and it was very commercialized
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: and that's what they wanted to sell, you know, make
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: more money off. And most of the editors were men. Right.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: And they, the men tell the women what to do,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: even though the, The women wanted to write decent stories
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: and focus on domestic abuse. The narrative was totally changed
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: into more focused into him losing his penis. And so
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: domestic violence was really overshadowed, right? And that's when the
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: activists and advocates decided to grab this story and really
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: fight it. fight it over. And, you know, I remember VAWA,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: the Violence Against Women's Act, that was not, it didn't
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: exist for me because, you know, it was more like
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: brand new and President Biden, which was Senator Biden at
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: that time from Delaware, was just the beginning of drafting
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: this act, right, to protect women. And in my case,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't, I will say it was, my case was
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: instrumental for activists and for people who were trying to
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: make laws and pass legislation for the government to protect women.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: And so that did not came after, in 1994, it
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: came after like six months after my trial, which I
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: think it was a landmark for for changing the laws
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: and protecting women's rights country so I think something good
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: came out of it even though it was a lot
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: of tabloid and I was vilified and I was diminished
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: to a cartoon you know Yeah, you were reduced to
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: cartoon character. And it was a joke. God. And it
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: was dehumanized. And this is what, you know, the court
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: of public opinion come in. And this is what, you know,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: I think that public, the public needed to be more educated.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: And this is exactly what I have done documentaries to
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: gather the factual events and say, hey, this is, This
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: is the proof that this is what happened. Watch it.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: Right. And well, I think and that's what the important
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: part of the of the lesson is, is that, you know,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: people looked at it as she was crazy. And, you know,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: he must have done something to deserve it. But no
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: one deserves that. And then if they talked a little
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: bit more, well, why didn't she just leave?
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: This is terrible. And then they kind of forget about
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: the story. It's like funny.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: You know, Howard Stern made a huge joke, you know, Geraldo.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: You know, seemed to be a complete nightmare. You know,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: just wanted to get you, you know, in front of
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: the mic because getting you as a, you know, as
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: an interview, they just wanted to find out, you know,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: how you did it and, you know, why you did
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: it and not really to see the why, but like,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: you know, why.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: It happened that night, you know.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's what people eat up, but
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: they literally forget the rest of it, that there is
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: so much bigger of a story and you've made your
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: life bigger. your life's mission about helping people and getting
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: the recognition and understanding what domestic violence is. I just
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: want to get back to one thing about the case
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: because he was, he, both of you, you know, were
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: charged with something, right? And I think people also forget
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: that he was charged and he was acquitted, but it
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: was a shorter amount of time they had to prove. And,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: you know, Did that make you nervous that he was acquitted?
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Did that make you nervous for your trial thinking, well,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: if they found him innocent, I'm going to be the
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: guilty one?
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was very much because I said, well, you know,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: he's acquitted already. So I was not sure where my
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: case is going to go. And so it's not looking
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: good for me. With the jury, it's a public opinion. Right.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: And so even the jury, I'm sure that they're not
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: supposed to, you know, Watched the news or something. But
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, you know, it was impossible. There's no way.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: No one saw it. Nobody didn't see it.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: It was impossible. So exactly. So and it was everywhere. Right.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: And it was overwhelming. And for your your court case,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: John went on like a media broadcast. Yes.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: Doing porn and all sorts of crazy things, right?
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: To make even more of a joke. Right. He even
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: operated himself to make his penis bigger. Oh, that's right.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: Or enlargement. I mean, so obviously, you know, he was
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: in a joke. Did that like deform him or something? Yes. Yes.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: I mean. So the news didn't stop is the point. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: And the jokes didn't stop. No, never. And so, you know, like,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: and the worst thing is that, you know, like, how
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: could you joke about something? a tragic, you know, a
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: traumatic story on a human being, you know, on a woman.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: How could you make that a joke? I mean, there's,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: and so I started to feel very isolated, alone. And so,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: but the more I saw activists and advocates to advocate
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: against domestic abuse, sexual assault, I felt that it was
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: necessary to, to me that, you know, hey, you know what,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to walk with my head high and
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: this is not, and I'm going to do the same thing.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to become an activist and advocate, and I'm
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: just going to do my speeches about, you know, against
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: domestic violence and marital assault, sexual assault, and all of this.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: And I empower myself with, you know, doing that. And
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: that's what I do, you know, and I created a
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: Lorena Gallo Foundation, which, you know, the mission is to
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: to help domestic violence victims to be away from it
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: through education and community engagement and also resources to actually
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: help this woman, which is very important for them to
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: escape domestic abuse or any relation of abuse if they
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: have children as well. So I think it's very important
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: for women to empower themselves and help other women because
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: this is This is a matter of, you know, of
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: helping each other. And also, we're never going to reach
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: gender equality if we don't, you know, help each other.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: And to put this in an awareness, you know, as
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: domestic violence is a social epidemic. And so we have
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: to create more awareness in order to continue this battle
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: against domestic abuse. What do you think is most misunderstood
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: about domestic violence? Many factors. I think the misunderstood is
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: that they don't understand why people don't leave. Why they
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: stayed in a domestic violence situation. It's easy for me
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: to judge or to say, hey, you know, if you
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: are abused, then you just pick up and leave. It's
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: not easy. It's a process, right? And it takes, we
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: just talked about it, it takes women up to statistically
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: seven times to leave because it's a revolving door. And
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: don't they say it's more dangerous too? Dangerous, yes. Well,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: you have to be very careful with that because women
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: live in fear and the women who live in fear,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: they're always living. So, but there's also they're going back
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: and that's the trick part of it. And the most
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: dangerous part is to actually knowing that And the perpetrator,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: your perpetrator, your abuser knows that you're leaving and they
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: are going to lose that control over you.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: And that is. Makes them even more angry. When making,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: what's making more angry and makes them more dangerous. Because
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: if he knows that he's, you're leaving. You're leaving him.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: Then he's not going to have control over you. He's
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: not going to manipulate you anymore. So he's taking away
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: his control. And then he can come back and kill you. Or,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of women who have left
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: the abusive relationship and their abusive husbands have gone through
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: their work. and also kill innocent people. So not only
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: kill you, but kill, and sometimes they even kill themselves,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: you know, after they commit the murder, suicide. But the
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: police are in danger too, because they don't know what
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: to expect in a domestic violence situation when they go.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: And they even say that they fear to go to
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: a call of domestic violence, but they have to do
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: it because it's their duty, right? They have to, as
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: a police officer. But it's very important to know that,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: you know, women who are trying to leave a domestic
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: violence situation, yeah, they are very endangered. Right.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: I want to circle back to one thing because your
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: case really brought up the facts of marital rape. But
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: it also, you know, you you pled you were fighting
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: your charge on temporary insanity.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Do you. due to battered women's syndrome, correct?
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: Is that how, yeah. And you won, you, you were acquitted.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if won is the right word,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: but you were acquitted. How did that feel going through
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: that trial? Just really briefly, were you scared?
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: So I was very scared and, and very uncertainty for
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: me because I didn't know what was going on, but, um,
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: I was over a plea bargain and I did not
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: took the plea bargain because why, because, um, Because I
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: felt that at that time, I felt that, okay, it
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter if I go to jail or not. It
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: was my time to tell the story. It's my time
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: to tell the world what happened. I had to tell
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: the truth. And I was doing it because it was
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: very important for me. And then I realized... I'm not
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: alone because all of the support that I have when I,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: in the court, outside of the court, by the way,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I really, until this day, I'm very thankful for that,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: for the support that I have. And, uh, those shots,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: you can still see them today.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: People cheering for you and you smiling. Yes. That helped
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: me a lot. And I'm very grateful until this day.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: I thank them, all of them, because they helped me
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: to go through that. Every time I step in that,
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: into that court, um, building into the courtroom, it helped me.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: It gave me, you know, strength. And I was really
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: appreciative of that. And even though, you know, it happened
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: a long time ago, I still feel the loving of
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: young people. Yeah.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: Also with the plea deal, if you had taken it,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: it would have affected your citizenship, correct?
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: Correct. And so he was threatening me. And this is
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: very important now that I'm glad that you mentioned because
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of women, immigrant women, do not report cases
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: of domestic abuse because of the same fact that they
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: are in a situation of immigrant status. Their status is
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: compromised and is used against you when you're perpetrated. is
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: taking or threaten you to tell you, oh, I'm going
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: to call the police and you're illegal and I'm going
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: to order them deportation and you're going to go back
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: to your country. So he's using and manipulating you against you.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: And it is very sad that he has control over that.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: So see, again, domestic violence is a control, is a behavior,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: is a pattern of behavior that the abuser is using
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: you to control you and to manipulate you. And not
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: only that, but I mean, he used gaslighting and coercive control,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: which is part of the... You know, I'm very happy
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: to talk about coercive control because... And Senator Rubio, Susan
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: Rubio from California, approached me and called me and said,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm working on this bill to pass to
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: Congress and I want you to help me with it.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: So I was I was helping. And I'm so proud
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: that I did that. And I have a copy if
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: you wanted to read about that. And the original, of course,
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: is in my wall frame. Oh, I love that. Because, yes,
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: and because I helped pass that law, of course, to
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: control with Senator Susan Rubio from California. Wow. And it
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: was amazing. Yeah.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: Um, so just quickly, there's the iconic, you know, video
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: of you standing up as the, as they're reading the verdict.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: What did you think before that? Like the moments before
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: they said guilty or not guilty.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: What I thought right when the lady come up to,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: to read the verdict. Okay. So I am glad that you, um,
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: ask me that question because no one have asked me
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: that question, first of all. And because I do not
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: know what to expect. I just hope for the best.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: And it was my life, whether I going to go
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: for 20 years to prison, because that was the sentence
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: if I was going to get convicted. Or go home.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: Or go home.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: And so I saw this lady and she is smiling.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: And when they said, the judge asked her, did you
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: guys reach the verdict? And she said yes with a
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: smile on her face. And I said, oh my God,
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: so that's good news. And I catch that up on her.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: And when she read it, not guilty, the verdict, it
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: was a big, even more relief for me. But I
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: knew that. Once I saw her smiling, I knew it.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: I said, oh, my God, God is great. Because, you know,
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: this is what the truth literally set you free. And
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: I said, I have basically a relief. But I didn't
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: walk out of the door, you know, the front door
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: of the court. I went to the back of the
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: door on the courtroom. And so that was confusing, too,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: because I did not know. But because I was.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: Acquitted by reason of temporary insanity I have to go
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: through a series of evaluations and you know to a
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: psychiatric hospital so I went there to Central State for
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: 45 days and in part I felt that it was
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: a relief from the media I remember Barbara Walters wanted
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: to interview me they sent a helicopter you know to
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: go around central state, uh, the, the hospital. And it was,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: it's like, they never leave me alone. Right. And so
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: in anything for a tabloid story that was there. And
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: so thank God I went there. I did my 45 years, um, sorry,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: 45 days, um, in, in the hospital. And, um, I was,
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: I was at peace. I was at peace with myself.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: I was at peace with, uh, you know, having this,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: this therapy, you know, coming from, from, from the state for,
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: for the therapist, for the doctor. Your life could now start.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: And I knew that I could have the opportunity to
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: restart my life again. And that's, um, That's basically it is.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: But I tell you, it was not always happy after
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: all that, after the release and everything. I did struggle.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of people say, oh, yeah, she's
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: fine after, you know, she's not guilty. She went to
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: have her therapy. No, it wasn't like that. It was
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: a very struggle to find jobs because everybody, first of all,
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: recognized me. I couldn't go to the grocery store without
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: me being recognized. I couldn't go, you know, to a restaurant. Or,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: you know, to eat something, you know, to a coffee place,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: to have a cup of coffee because it was difficult.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: And I have some setbacks and I have more hurdles
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: to go through and bumps to go through because, you know,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: finding a job was difficult.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: What kind of job did you end up getting?
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be, you know, the same thing, a manicurist. And,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: you know, that's what I knew and that's what I
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: needed to do for. So go back to manicurist. And
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: so it was very difficult. I know that I was,
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: and I hate to say this, but I'm going to
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: say it because I want people to know what really happened.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: So to me, as a woman, And being vilified by
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: the media, of course, people are going to, you know,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: recognize me everywhere I go. So I said, I'm going
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: to have to give it a shot. But I had
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to go back to work, not as a manicurist,
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: but in a law firm. And, you know, this man
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: offered me a job. And while I was there, I
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: was actually didn't realize that he was using me. You know,
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: every time I go, like he will invite me. to
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: a restaurant, and then he would go with me just
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: to be seen with him and to take advantage of.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: And then on top of that, he make sexual advances.
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 2: And I was like, you know, this is pathetic. This
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: is horrible. I just came from a trial. I just
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: came from a traumatic event in my life, an extraordinary
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: event of my life. And then this.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: It's like your own personal me too situation. So after
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: the fact, yeah. And I was like, really? Yeah. Really? This,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 2: this happening again. I mean, being victimized by, by this person,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: you know, it's great. They offered me the job, but.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: But you have to accept all that to keep the job. Yes.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: And also not only that, but, but I didn't know
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: that that was a, some kind of condition or something,
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: you know? And, and so it was terrible. He never, yeah,
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: it is. So did you end up leaving? Yes, I
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: ended up leaving. Yes, I ended up leaving. And so
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: I went back to being manicured. My friend... try to
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: help me. And she knew, she knew the owner and everything. And,
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: you know, friends, it's good to know people because then, so.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes your name will work.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it does. But I mean, but it was a
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: struggle to go back and to work. And I stayed
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: at the job as much as I can. And then
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: I end up, when my parents came from Venezuela, I
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: end up, you know, helping them to find a job
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: there too. Right. So it was good.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: Just a few more questions.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you,
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: how did you date after the fact?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: Was that hard? Were you on dating apps? No, there
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: was no dating apps.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: It was the night, early 90s. Have you ever been
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: on a dating app? I've never. I've never. I've been
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: with my partner, David, for... For actually 30 years now.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: And we have a daughter. Yes. I never get married.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he did. He said, you know,
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: and I said, you know, we should plan our wedding.
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: He was like, oh, yeah, I'll show up. 30 years.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yes. But did you date a few people
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: before him or he was your one and only? No,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: I did not date anybody because I was, you know,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: it was such a trauma, traumatic experience. So I never
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: really had the time to. I said, you know, I'm
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: just going to take care of myself. My family is
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: here from Venezuela. I'm just going to, you know, just
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 2: try to help myself to live a normal life. And
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: did he already know who you were? He was. So
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: I went to college. I went back to college and
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: I met him at college. Okay. Community college. And so
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: he was in one of my classes. He was in history.
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: And we took social, I think it was like community college.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 2: What's the class? Anyways, it was a communication class, communication class.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: And so he was there. And so we started as
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: a friend and our friendship grew into, you know, respect,
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: respect grew into love. And we are here now. We
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: have a daughter.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: Love, love.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But at the beginning, he could joke with you
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: about it. He could handle it. He could. He could
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: handle it. He would never joke or make anything because,
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 2: you know. He knew how serious. He's very smart. I mean, yeah.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: And so he never asked anything or nothing like that.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: And it was basically a nice, natural, beautiful relationship like
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: it should be in a healthy, you know.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's interesting. So he knew the seriousness of it.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: He didn't want to be part of the jokes, but
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: he understood who you were beyond those headlines.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: So it didn't even, it wasn't something you needed to discuss.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: And as a matter of fact, yeah, as a matter
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: of fact, one of his best friends served as a
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: jury for his trial. Oh my goodness. It was such
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: a small world. Wow. Yes.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: Interesting. I know. And your daughter is how old now?
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: She's 18. Wow.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: Yes. And what do you tell your daughter when people
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: find out who her mother is?
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: I think she's very smart, first of all, and, uh,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: kids are very smart. They just Google it. And I mean,
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: you know, she went, when the documentary come, come up, obviously, uh,
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 2: but they were filming at my home and, uh, you know,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: it was like a Hollywood, you know, kind of lights
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: and everything. Um, so obviously she was there with her
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: friends and I have to move her, you know, because
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: she was just like so young and, you know, teenagers
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: and everything had to be quiet, you know, because of
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: the filming and stuff. But, um, I mean, you know,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: she knew and, and just a simple Google. And when
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: she went to Sundance, the Sundance festival, um, she was
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: troubled with me and David, of course. And, um, you know,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: she saw parts of the documentary because we were actually,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: that's where we tried to promote, you know, marketing. We
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: have to do this marketing. So they were showing it
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: in different areas. And what's it called? The city, Salt
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: Lake City. So we went to Utah. And so we
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: were there. And when we came back to the hotel...
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: She told me, Mom, I didn't realize how strong you are. Because,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: and you know, that just kind of really, oh my gosh,
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: it's just, I get emotional because she understands, you know,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: the part of me, my life, right? So before she
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: was born. Of course. And so that was very special.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: And so she could see you as a survivor and
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: someone to be proud of. Which she does. I love that. Okay.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: Have you ever spoken to John?
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. Do you have any desire to? No,
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: I think I don't. I think it's interesting. And it's
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: an interesting question.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: People have asked me to ask you that because when
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: you when your name is connected with somebody and, you know,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: John and Lorena Bobbitt, as it is, and the story
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: is so connected, you know, I think people wonder if
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: naturally you have not an affinity. That's a horrible word.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: But like, you know, naturally, you want to find out
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: what happened to them. Naturally, you need some closure. naturally
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: for people, you might not need closure at all. You know,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: that might be something so terrible that you cannot be
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: a part of. So I think that that, you know,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: that's why people wonder because they wonder if you ever became,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: you know, in a space where you could have some
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: closure or if you even felt you needed it.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: No, not necessarily. I don't have any I mean, if
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: I heard something in the news, because obviously he wants
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: an abuser, always an abuser. He actually beat up a
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: lot of women and he went to jail for, you know,
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: being abusive again to his girlfriend and his wife and
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: another girlfriend. So he was actually sharing, you know, in
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: the same jail, I think it's love, love. Luck, love
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 2: or something like that. It's in Nevada with O.J. Simpson was.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: It was at the same jail. So he went there
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 2: for not too long. John was for, again, abusive relationships.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: And he's just been in the news recently for like
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: losing his toes or something.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, clearly he hasn't had the easiest life. Well,
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: it's kind of sad because, you know, it's, you know,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: now I guess, you know, once he had to, he
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: drank the water when he was in Camp Lejeune. And,
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously they said that the water there was
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: so bad that it make some kind of.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: That he, the circulation, that's why he lost his 10
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: toes and now he walks with a limp. But, you know,
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: it's life. You know, nobody wants to lose any part
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: of your body. And it's sad that, you know, people go,
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: at some point, you're going to have to have some
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: illness that is going to compromise your health.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: But, you know, I just feel sorry. Yeah.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: The Me Too movement, it had happened before your story.
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: Do you think people would have looked at you differently?
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, what was the last question?
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: Meaning the Me Too movement where people finally started to
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: believe women or see that there was a real movement
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: in terms of what you were talking about with your boss,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: let's say. People had to do things to keep their job.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: even in your situation with John, do you think that
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: people would have said, well, there must be more to
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: this story. Let's look into what happened to her as
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: opposed to her just cutting off a peanut.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: So any time that we have in our society, we
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: have a movement like the Me Too movement. It's very
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: important to realize and that actually come to actually have
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: the workers and especially Hollywood women who actually accused their
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: their directors of sexual harassment and have them hold accountable
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: for what they did. And that's what happened with the
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: Me Too movement. I am so happy that, you know,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: I'm so humble that a reporter, a male reporter from
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: England was telling me, you know, he said, you know, Lorena,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: I see you as the mother of the Me Too movement.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: And I said, wow, that's kind of odd because, you know,
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: And I have no really answer to that. But it
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: was that whole thing. So every time that women are
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: involved in such a tragedy and, you know, we have
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: to make something good come out of it, it doesn't
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: have to be a tragedy for women to advance and serve.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: You know, do you know what I mean? Of course.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: And so it doesn't have to be that way. Why?
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: So I am glad that we have, you know, the my...
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: My case served as an instrumental, you know, situation to
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: help change laws around the countries and not only here
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: in the United States, but in the world, because a
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: lot of things, you know, we have this conversation of
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: domestic abuse. And, you know, awareness and the conversations going
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: on and on. But also when the Me Too movement come,
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: I was very happy and, you know, to hear that
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 2: women have some sort of protection. Yeah. And not only
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: the Me Too movement, but the why I stayed, the
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: campaigns in social media, the why I stayed and why
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: I left and why I didn't left. And so it
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: really come to that, to be able to see women.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: what our society is doing. And, uh, you know, there's
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 2: so many, so much, uh, so much more that we
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: can do, you know, it's like we, we have made
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: so many changes in the laws to protect women, but
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 2: there's so much more work to be done. Yeah. Do
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And so every time that
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: I felt that we have changed a lot of things,
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: we take a one step, uh, forwards, but we also
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: take two steps back. And sometimes the loss is more
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: catered to the perpetrator than women. And when it's the
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: case of when women go and fight custody for children,
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: especially when they are in an abusive situation or when
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: they have immigration situations, when there is a child involved that,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: you know, the perpetrator said held that up against you
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: and said, you're going to be deported and then children
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: are involved. And, you know, the mother has to be
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: out of the country. And who knows if you're going
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: to see the child again or not. Right. So it's
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: very sad that the laws have to be more, you know,
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: those gaps on the law and the legislation have to
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: be closed. You know what I mean? I do know, Amy.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: Last two questions. Did you ever become an American citizen? Yes,
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: I'm so proud. When did that happen? Oh, my God.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: When did that happen? That happened, sorry, my allergies. That
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: happened right after my trial. Amazing. That must have felt terrific. Yes,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: it felt like, you know, so proud. More than proud,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: it was a dream come true. Yeah, yes.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think it's very interesting that you
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: had this passion to be an American citizen, so much
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: so that you wouldn't take the plea deal.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: You wanted to prove your story. You wanted to have
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: your own voice. Yes.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: Even so, now that you're an American, you do live
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: with the stigma. You know, you do live with this story,
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: but you are still, you would rather keep that than
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: not be an American.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: I think that's kind of powerful, too.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: Yes. I think.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: Thank you. And I think it's very important to know that, yeah,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: domestic violence still has a stigma among society. People, it's
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 2: like a hush-hush, you know, type of conversation that you
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: never talk about it, you portray a perfect social media
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: and the pictures with your loved ones and everything, but
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: behind those doors, you never know what's going on. And
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 2: I think it's very important to destigmatize domestic abuse by
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: making it aware of what's happening, obviously, and instead of
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 2: being a taboo or being stigma still. And yes, I
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: always know that I'm going to live with that on
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: that shadow, always going to follow me no matter what.
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: It's like a scar, you know, like a scar that
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: never goes away. If you have a tattoo, for example,
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: you know, you had to really erase it or whatever,
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: but But that's never going to go away.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: But maybe it's like a war wound that you can
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: use for good and be proud of. Yes.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: And learn the lesson from it.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: And that was important. Thank you so much. But I
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: also wanted to say that I use it as a
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: positive in every time. a positive situation comes up, I'm
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 2: glad to use my platform because that's where, you know,
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: I become, my name have become a brand name. And
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: so I can actually market it in that way for,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: you know, look, I mean, I am an advocate of,
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: against domestic abuse and sexual assault. And I'm so proud that,
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: you know, I do have a foundation and I'm working,
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: you know, this is what I do for a living.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: I do speeches and, And, you know, before COVID, that's
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: exactly what I was doing. I was going to colleges
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: and universities to talk and do my speeches. But COVID
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: ruined it all for all. And so that pandemic, right?
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: And it's like I said, and then we learned to
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: do it in Zoom meetings and stuff like that. But
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: it's not the same. It's not the same connection that
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: you have with when you have this people asking you
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: a question. And I love that connection instead of seeing in...
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 2: you know, monitor, a computer monitor. It's, you know, some
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: of them, they're honestly, they're young and I call them kids.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: I know I shouldn't say that, but they're young and
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: they just decided to turn it off because it's boring.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: It's important for them to learn, right? Because it's such
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: an important issue for them, especially in college, to learn
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: about healthy relationships. Oh, for sure. Right.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you what you want your
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: legacy to be from hearing you speak. It really sounds
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: like you want to be known for your work in
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: domestic violence. I do. And, you know, changing the narrative
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: and the importance of using your voice and telling your
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: own story.
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: But I don't want to speak for you.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: But just hearing you, it's very evident to me that
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: that's what, you know, should be your legacy.
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: What what would you like your legacy to be? What
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 2: would you like to be known for? I am proud
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: to do what I do as an advocate against domestic abuse.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm very humble and I am so happy that
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: I made that as my mission. It's a personal thing.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: I lived through that and I went through it. I
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: walked the shoes of domestic abuse. I walked the shoes
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: of being sexually assaulted by my husband. I walk those shoes.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: And look, I mean, it's very important to bring for me,
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: through my foundation, it's very important to bring the dignity
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: of a victim who is trying to escape domestic abuse
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: and survivors of domestic abuse. I think it's very important that,
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I will say one of the futures, and
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: this is what we're trying to put together, a business
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: plan of, uh, through the foundation, of course, um, to
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: offer a woman's center that again, I can, through that,
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: I can offer, um, legal support to women who escaping
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: domestic abuse. I can offer mental health because they need
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: us so much. It's very important. And this woman tried
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: escaping abuse and, uh, the relationship, um, is, um, It's
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: very important that they are treated, you know, and they're
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: in the mental stage that they need psychological help. And
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 2: so I will offer that when I have my women's center.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 2: And of course, a shelter in the future is in
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: the future. an emergency shelter. So women, yes, women don't
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: have the means to, to go. Uh, and that's why
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: they stay in a relationship. And it's important to me
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: to make that a mission to, and to bring back,
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: like I said, the dignity of, of this woman that
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: they deserve so much because I was there.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: And, um, yeah, it's, it's a personal to me to
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: say that, um, I never forgotten the trauma that I
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: lived through my abusive husband, but I also never forgotten
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: what victims go through. And so to me, that will
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: be it. That will be what I will wish to do.
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, so people can learn more about you by watching
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: Lorena on Prime Video.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else where people can reach you?
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: Tell us where we can find out more about your foundation.
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's Lorena Gallo Foundation, and they can create as www.lorenagallofoundation.com.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: You can actually see, you know, my organization there is
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: a website. And if they wanted to donate or something,
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 2: there is a click button to donate. Okay. And I
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: very much thank you for your support. We will put
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: a link on that.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, please. Listen, I'm very proud to also, I did
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: a public... not public broadcast, I'm sorry, public service announcement. And,
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: you know, that's there for, if you are in a
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: dangerous situation, if you feel like your life is in danger,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline. If you could
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: please put a link on that. And it's very important
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: to know that you're not alone and speak up and
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: speak out. You're amazing.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: I really wish you the best. I can't wait to
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: see what you do in the future.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: Last question.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: Are you on Instagram where people can follow a little
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: bit about your personal life or do you not do
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: social media?
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: No, I took, I'm glad you asked that because I
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: took a break from social media. Okay.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: For protection, for my family, my friends. There was a
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: time that it was really bad that they can actually
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: steal pictures and no matter what you do, put pictures
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: on social media. They just tried to get it through
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: friends and family, and they make up some stories, and
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: that was not fair. So I decided to just take
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 2: a break for a little for social media. Well, I'll reiterate,
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 2: everyone should watch the docuseries, Lorena. It was so good.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: I watched it in one sitting. It's four parts. It
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 2: is four parts. It's fascinating. Yes. You learn so much. Again,
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: you think you know the story, but you don't.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: No. And it is so... I was, you know... rooting
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: for you and still rooting for you.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much and also there's a movie it's
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: called I was Lorena Bobbitt it's by Lifetime Lifetime Network
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: and so please watch that too absolutely and there's there's
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 2: a upcoming I'm working in a documentary but it's not
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 2: going to be here in the United States unfortunately it's
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 2: going to be overseas and in Europe.
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: Amazing so people can find it yeah okay terrific Lorena
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: thank you so much thank.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 2: You so much thank you for inviting me You need
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 2: a song.
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 2:06:10
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• 2:06:13
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• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the
• 2:06:20
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• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much,
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.
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