Latest / The Redeemed Backslider / Identity Redefine - Mari Bobbitt #TRB Episode 61

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Identity Redefine - Mari Bobbitt #TRB Episode 61 · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: With your host, Kathy Chest Day, Christian-based psychotherapist and Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: With me today is my friend Mary Bobbitt.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: She is originally from Alexandria, Louisiana, and she's currently in Denver, Colorado.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Mary is a woman of faith who has overcome many obstacles through the power and the guidance of the Holy Ghost.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Her journey has taught her that even though even through the hardest seasons, God can turn our struggles into testimonies.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sharing her experiences, the lessons that she's learned along the way, God has carried her through is more than just something to enjoy.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's her passion.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Her hope is to encourage others, inspire them to keep going, and remind them that whatever they may be facing, that they're never alone.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mary, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you could be here.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited, very happy to be here with you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I met Mary.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: She came out for our conference, Unshackled, uh, in March.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: She came out with um a team of, I think a total of five of you guys came, but um, it was just such a pleasure to meet her and everyone that came out.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our friends Dustin and Leanne Long and Shay and Ben Bland, they all came um because they're all our prodigals as well.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so Mary has such an incredible story.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Mary, I just want you to jump right in, maybe uh just tell us, you know, kind of what you feel to share from your heart about your prodigal journey.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, my journey started at such a young age and not with God, but you know, I didn't um get in church till I was 29.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I lived most of my life.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean I knew there was a God, you know, I just didn't have any kind of relationship with him.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: I in fact, I didn't want to have any kind of relationship with him because of the things that I had been through, you know.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, there's a God, you know, I don't get it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So God wasn't something that was even really a thought in my mind.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk about that for a second?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there's a lot of people out there who think, you know, how can a God who's supposed to love me let things happen to me?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like, you know, without knowing all of your history, just what you just now said kind of alluded to the fact that you didn't really want to know him because your idea of him seemed to have been jaded because of what you've gone through.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So can you talk about that for a minute?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like what your perspective was, and and what others out there who's listening could be feeling for the same reason.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um from the time I was about three till I was about seven, uh there was just sexual abuse almost daily from many, many people.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, as I got it just becomes part of your nature, you know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I just thought that was kind of normal, I guess.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, when you get older and you can look back and you can kind of see things differently, um, there was so much of severe, according to y'all's terms, abuse, uh and and also some, you know, some other some rejection from my mother, um that really, really, really impacted my identity and and the way I saw myself and the way I felt about my very being.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, when you I just if there was a God, whatever, you know, I I thought that was a joke, you know.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I then you know, someone told me, Oh, God loves you.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Oh no, he doesn't.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: What are you crazy?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's no way, there's no way God loves me, you know.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Why would he love me?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I do you do you think um, and forgive me if this sounds like a crazy question, but going through sexual abuse in you know, those early developmental years and then growing up, you know, through that and then past that, do you do you feel like you felt love?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you look absolutely not.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you really didn't have an idea.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I I mean I think a lot of people don't really have an understanding of what real love is, especially if they grow up in difficult situations like that.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea of love for you probably felt foreign at best.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right, and it my family dynamic wasn't like that either.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my dad was military, you know, staunch, and you know, I love you was not spoken in our house.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: It just that four-letter word wasn't anything that we heard ever, you know, from either.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it just didn't matter to me, you know.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: I as I came through, I just I didn't want to be loved, I didn't want to love anybody, and I didn't want anybody to love me.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: If that's what this was all about, now I'm good, you know.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I just learned to be self-reliant and take care of myself, you know.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the way I process things, and and that's the way the identity that I took on.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need anybody, I'm gonna survive and I'm gonna make it, and I'm gonna do what I have to do for me.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, did you interpret um sexual abuse like through the lens of love?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because you said, I don't want no one to love me, and I don't want anyone to love them if this is what it's like.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is that because of the correlation between sex and love?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So they kind of went hand in hand for you, and that was your idea of what love was supposed to be, right?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: If that's because that's what people do, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: They marry people that care about each other, blah, blah, blah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no, so yeah, I didn't want anything to do with any of that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so go on.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was life like for you as you grew up until age 29?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think uh when my when my my mom left, but it it was just the way it happened.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was in the house, she backed out the driveway and stopped.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: I opened the door, she looked at me, and I looked at her, and then she left.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I think at that point, just on top of the other abusive things that had happened to me.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just shut down emotionally.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: That that rejection, you know, from your parent, your same-sex parent, especially, uh it just sealed the deal for me.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: That was a pattern by then.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: See, that's what the devil does.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: If he can curse your identity, it also alters your destiny.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And see, and he he can't be every place at at any time, he's not omnipresent, but he can set up schemes in our lives.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: The Bible talks about that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: That we self-destruct, you know, once my identity was totally altered by abuse and shame and low self-esteem and rejection, then he could move on because then I self-destruct, right?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he didn't need to be around me anymore.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So but that's so powerful, Mary.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So powerful.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because that's exactly what child abuse does, it totally and completely changes everything about you internally, and the Lord had to show me all of that.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: See, I I didn't know anything about any of this, so you know, I got older, ended up, you know, that little child that's stagnant within you because it died now when I was about nine, when that happened with my mom.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Done, I'm done growing emotionally.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: You grow physically, but emotionally, you are stagnant, you just cannot get past those wounds.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, of course, there's this little kid inside of me that hates me, and I don't want anything to do with that, and then you're just longing for that love that you never got from your your same-sex parents.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, of course, a world of of homosexual homosexuality opened up for me.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, um gosh, eighth grade, you know, is when all of these things started stirring in me, and and so you know, and even that is such it's horrible, you know, the the torment that you go through mentally and emotionally trying to.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and we're talking 30 years ago, you know, this thing was so taboo.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, nobody cares, you know.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: But back then it was not like that at all.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you were labeled that, so it was terrible, it was terrible for you.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I've I people stay in the closet for that reason, probably not anymore, because no, it doesn't matter.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: But back then, you know, you can certainly not tell anybody, so you just wrestle with yourself, and then when you finally give into it, see, then that's a whole nother spirit.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: That thing right there is mental and emotional, and it's physical, it just takes over your whole being.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the most powerful spirits, a perverse spirit is one of the most powerful spirits that a tool of the enemy.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's big, it's massive, and it's hard to deal with.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I want you know, I live go ahead.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm taking notes as you're talking because I want to circle back to some things.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm I'm kind of jumping into some details.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: If if there's things you don't want to talk about, it's okay.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not because I want to, you know, be graphic or anything like that, but I think about this in terms of what's happening now with kiddos because sexual abuse I think is so very prevalent.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it happens way more than we ever hear about it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to just talk about the mentality that's taking place in the mind and in the heart when you recognize that you didn't have love and you said twice now, same-sex parent.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking to myself that that must be, you must have felt like if your mom was female, then there was a different kind of bond or a different kind of safety that existed with another female than what would have existed with the men, because the men were the ones that abused you.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So in the eighth grade, when some of this started, was the attraction when you look back, was the attraction like a physical yearning, or was it just the the need for a relationship in terms of friendship, comfort?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what you were missing from your mom?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it was more emotional.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't turn physical till much later.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, human sexuality flows like a river.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you're a child, it's the water's like ankle deep.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then as you get older and you're getting into puberty, that's that water starts rising and it gets faster and faster, you know, and more intense.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: But what happens is just all these traumas put rocks.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they put rocks in your river so it doesn't flow anymore, it just starts diverting and taking other paths.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to get the rocks out through healing so that your water can start flowing again in the right direction.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, you know, it was just totally emotional.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: At first, like the first one that comes to my mind was like a substitute teacher that I had in junior high that I just built a connection with, you know, we were just I was always so happy when she was there, you know, and it was the first um like emotional connection that I remember having, but it was nothing, never even a thought of anything physical at that point.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was just an emotional like, oh wow, you know, she likes she cares about me.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes, she cares about me.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: The confusion probably comes in because we have such a strong emotional feeling, and we then confuse it with sex because it takes on that other form.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you said that the torment was so great.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I could imagine what you're referring to, but could you maybe unpack that a little bit for people out there?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there are people that go through torment, but they don't know how to label it as that, but they yet they're struggling.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, could you maybe just unpack that a little bit and how you came to understand it?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um when you start having these thoughts, and I was in high school by then, when all this is starting to really, you know, that water is getting a little more intense.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm starting to relate this in a whole nother realm.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you know it's wrong.
• 15:32
  unknown: Right.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: You if you you have a conscience, you don't even need God for that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: You you know this is not normal.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: This this is very wrong, especially.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're talking 70s, you know, and and it just like I said, it was such a taboo thing back then.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you have all these feelings that are surfacing and all these emotions, and you know they're wrong.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is wrong, you know.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: What is wrong with me?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: But you can't change it, it's just there, it's there, and it just gets more and more, and there's no one you can really talk to about it because then you're put in this little box, you know, and then you know you're attacked and all these other things.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: So somehow there's just this internal battle, this internal struggle.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it was tormenting because you know, like I said, my dad was military, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, everything in our life was in order.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, this was definitely not in order, you know.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so what do you do with it?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you just yeah, and eventually you just give in.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: And see, once you do that and just go, okay, well, this is just who I am, then you get this like false sense of peace because the battle's over, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you've you've given in to it, you're not arguing with yourself anymore, right now.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this is just who I am.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't like it, you know, right?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I I would have said some pretty ugly things back then.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, then then look, it's not my this is your problem.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a problem with me, I'm the same person I always was, you know.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it you don't wake up next to me every day, so why do you care?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right, you know, the problem then you just put off on other people.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at least I did.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, very well explained, Mary.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, I'm gonna let you go on.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna come back to the perverse, the perversion spirit.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to I want you to talk about that deeper, but keep going.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, high school, it started to take on an all-new form.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, by then it's a spirit, you know, like that book you read in high school about the little A, you know, that's I don't remember the name of the book, but see, in the spirit realm, like spirits, familiar spirits, attract.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: So then I've accepted this as who I am.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's become my nature.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: So now this spirit is in control of me.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So anytime I walk in the hall at school or I'm out, any other person that has that spirit, I know it, they call it a gay, a gay dar, but it's it's a familiar spirit, is what it is.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So then, you know, I recognize all these people, which you know, discernment is a spiritual gift anyway.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I've had it my whole life.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I could walk into a room and go, Oh, he's a molester.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is not good, you know, stay away, stay away from these people.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the Lord did give me that and protect me from a whole lot of things.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: My life could have been a whole lot worse than it was, and I I know that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, you just birds of a feather flock together, you know.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So then my circle of friends became people like me, yeah, you know, and so then eventually, yeah, I fell in love with someone, and then that was my first you know, dealings with all of that, and so I don't know, you know, once it becomes who you are, by then I don't think there's any way out because this is just who I am.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: God, you know, this is just who I am.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So there's there's how can you change that?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it is just who you are, so that's how I lived the you know, the next 10 years of my life, from like I don't know, 15 to 29, so 15 years, you know, that's how I lived.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Just embraced it.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: When you look when you look at the um perversion spirit, do you think that that came when you were being abused, or do you absolutely okay?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, or do you think that it became or that it came on after you accepted that became a part of me from the very first person that penetrated my body?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, sure, they have a perverse spirit.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Why would they be doing something like that?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, now I when I look back through the lens of the Holy Ghost and I can see so many things, you know, and I'm you know, I'm not mad at those people.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: I forgave them, you know.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then you gotta wonder, my God, what happened to you?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: What made you that way?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people aren't born like that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: All of us are nobody's born like that, you know.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Things happen and yeah, from I believe uh the journey towards the physical part of that uh came from that perverse spirit that had already been entertained in my body.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it takes many forms if you study that spirit, can be homosexuality, can be prostitution, child abuse, you know, it just lewdness, filthiness, it can take many avenues.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the one it took for me.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And pornography it comes from that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's such an accepted, an accepted sin, I think, uh, among people.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not not that it not that we accept it, but it's just so common.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I think in it largely it has been accepted as, oh, every guy does this now, it's really hitting women.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably always affected women, but we're hearing about women more now.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think what you said is so important too, because so many kiddos do get uh sexually abused at such an early age before their cognition.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is really able to understand.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so when they do grow up and say, I've always been like this, this is just who I am, it's because it started so early.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's all they they know because it's what they remember.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But they were that way.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Those little spirits are whispering in your ears from that moment on.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, that's the first little seed of the enemy altering your identity.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I I think people believe they're born that way because it starts from that first time, you know.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And what I tell them, I don't really care how you think you're born because the whole plan is to be born again.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: We we get to start over.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's you know it's Mary.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank God.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we get another chance, and in all of that, you know, any if any man be in Christ, Jesus, he's a new creature.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I embrace new.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want any of that anymore.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just in fact, I don't even think about it ever, ever.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's so far removed from me that it just seems like it was a whole nother person, which it was, but yeah, you know, I went down in that water, absolutely.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I came up new, so which is a whole nother battle, you know.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's when the real work starts.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the Holy Ghost is the easy part.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: That spirit man coming alive is easy because the road out is actually in it's inward, so that's when your real struggle begins for coming all the way out.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's I I don't, I mean, I know this because we hear it from scripture, but the way you just said it, I think is amazing because we do a lot of us, even you know, as a therapist, we're all trying to work through our past.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I love what you said.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even care about my past because I'm a new creation, I'm a new man.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: The old me doesn't really matter, right?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we should spend, I should spend more time talking about that piece because that's where the change really occurs.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, while I think it's important to understand where we've been and where we came from so we can heal those places and let God in to heal those places.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not our defining identity at all.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I refuse that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I refuse that, you know, I just don't accept that anymore.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was never what God in fact, you know, one day after I've got the Holy Ghost, I was looking in the mirror.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, these first few months, you know, my hair's starting to grow.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm like, oh my god, who am I?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is not me.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the Lord spoke to me in an audible voice, and he said, Oh no, Mary, this is you, this is who you were supposed to be all along.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, so you know, it's just it's the devil's job to destroy lives.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: The Bible says that he comes to seek to kill and and destroy.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, once that part of us that's made in God's image, and I know people say, Oh, we're made in the image of God, and we I believe we are, but I believe that spirit part of us is dead until we receive the Holy Ghost, and then it comes alive in us, so that's when we have power.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: The Bible says that you have power after that the Holy Ghost has come upon you.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: So when you activate that God part of you, then you can begin the process and you can be healed.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Ten lepers went and they all left, but one came back, and Jesus told him, Your faith has made you whole, so you can be healed, or you can go that little extra mile and you can be made whole.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I told Sister Mickey from the get-go, I don't want to just be healed, I want to be whole, I need to be whole.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that was just my pursuit with God was wholeness.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you how did you meet him at 29?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is a great story.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: The Lord reminded me last night uh in that dream.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was working, uh I was I was an operation manager for Arby's roast beef here in Louisiana.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I had 14 stores, but there was a guy that was opening some in Leesville in De Ritter, which is not far from Alexandria.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So he asked uh his managers to come and work with us and trainer.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't gonna pay her.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: He was, and so my boss was like, Well, sure, you know.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm in Alexandria and I'm working, and she shows up and it's this little Pentecostal girl, and we were all like, Oh god.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody, nobody liked Pentecostals from, and that's a whole nother story, but you know, we have huge conferences, there's a huge church there, and you know, you'd just get over Roman Pentecostals several times a year, and you know, some some of us aren't super nice people, you know, so we dreaded those times, and we were just like, uh uh.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: But she came.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, we we hit it off, you know, we just got to be good friends, and she told me she's after we kind of got to hanging out a little bit, you know, she brought me by, drove me by uh the Pentecostals of Alexandria, and because she wanted to kind of show me where how she lived and and you know what her life was all about.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: So she was talking to me about God.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we drove by uh the church, and when I looked up there on the side of the building, it says the Pentecostals, and I'm telling you, something physically moved inside of me.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I felt it, so I kind of relayed it, and people might think I'm crazy to kind of like when uh Mary went to Elizabeth and that baby leapt in her room.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: I felt something, and I don't know if it was God or if it was the devil going, uh-oh, or God going, oh yeah, you know, I don't know, right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was interesting, and I made note of it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't say anything, but I made note of it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And she would tell me all the time, ah, you know, God loves you.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, he doesn't, he doesn't love me, you know.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: And she she was telling me one day, you know, Mary, you cuss and you drink and you sing in a rock band, and you're gay, but you have a great heart.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: God loves that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, that's all four things.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I'm doing pretty good.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do four things, okay, you know, awesome.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, I just thought the whole thing was a joke.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was hilarious, you know.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And she, this is this is how the enemy works, too.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: She, this girl was a prayer warrior, like an intercessor, but she was going through some serious emotional trauma of her own.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Her husband had just left her, had an affair with her cousin, and just left.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so emotionally she was destroyed.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: So there it is.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: That spirit starts stirring, and so I, you know, we're getting really close, and and and it's all starting to kind of, and I'm like, you know what?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you really love God, you need to get away from me, you need to get far, far, far away from me.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because I, you know, you can tell I could feel that coming on, and I was like, you need to go, you need to get away from me.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just just go, you know.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: But of course, she didn't, so we ended up in a relationship, and uh then the war in Kuwait broke out, and she starts freaking out, you know, like uh she's afraid she's gonna go to hell, the Lord's about to come, this war is happening, and I'm like, Well, cool.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I gotta go to church, I gotta go to church.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, great, go.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Look, I'll go with you, I'll go to church with you.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, I didn't want this for her.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody wants to drag somebody into this kind of lifestyle.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, look, I'm gonna go to church with you, and then you go do you, and it's been real, it's been fun, but I'm out, you know.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyway, the people that she worked for, you know, they were all Pentecostals.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I didn't know was all this time they had been praying for me.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I met all of these people, and so they were all praying for me, and so you know, I'm like, okay, well, I'll go to church with you, you know.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I said, But if one person touches me, I promise you I'm gonna lay them out.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: You better keep all these people away from me.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was very serious, and she knew it.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I we go, and you know how God is, God did that whole service was for me.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was just for me.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: This guy gets up and he sings, he saw not what I was, he saw what I could be, and then uh the choir sang.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know the choir sang, I've been delivered, and the whole place just blew up, and everybody was running the aisles and shouting.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, dude, this radical man.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I like this, you know.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had never felt the presence of God before, but man, it was there, it was some power in there, it was electrifying, and I was like, Whoa, man, you know, this is this is pretty cool.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: So uh the dude he gets up there and preaches all hell, fire and brimstone, and I'm like, whatever.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: I live in hell already, bro.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you don't even I don't care about all of that, you know.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so we left, and then of course, that war took what two days, boom, gone.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So she wasn't afraid anymore.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: But but by then, see, there was something stirring in me, yeah, that I had never felt before.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I had met a lot of those people, and one of them wanted to give me a Bible study, so I was like, sure, you know, why not?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so I didn't go back to church for quite a while, but I did hang out with them, you know, and and I got this Bible study, and so then uh, you know, I was just stirred up.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: But then again, you have that thing, and and the Lord was making himself so real to me, like tangibly real.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was driving to work one day and it was raining, and I was hauling it because I was late.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Had a little Toyota Mr2.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was flying, and somebody pulled out in front of me, so I had to slam on the brake, and so I was doing donuts, and you know, I'd stop no wreck, I stopped the cars in the right facing the right direction, and I put it put it in gear and take off.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm listening to music, church music, and it was this song Cover Me, that the Pentecostals of Alexander.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wow, you know, I just started paying, started paying attention, you know, and listening to church music.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I that's something I had to shut the door on was music because I was in a band, and and that really music has a hold on me.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And these people that were giving me this Bible study, they figured that out quick.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: So they started giving me, you know, stuff to listen to.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there was things that were just God was just going, hello, I'm right here.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: I could there was countless, countless things I could tell you that happened, you know.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: So finally in January, by then I had started coming pretty regularly to church, you know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: I had realized these people had something I didn't, and whatever it was, I wanted it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I slowly began, you know, a journey towards that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I finally got baptized.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Jonathan Super was doing a revival in his church, and I love, love, love him.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you've never heard of him, he's incredible.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: So he um and I remember walking through the hall at church one day and he was walking by me.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know that he went, you know, that kind of look they get.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: I knew he read my mail, he's very, very gifted.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, All right, the Lord, I recognized that when it happened, I knew it would happen.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, here we go.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: But he was so cool, you know, we're still friends to this day.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I just love him.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if I called him right now and said, Hey, I need he'd be right there for me, you know.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: God put him there for a reason for grace, grace and mercy, because believe me, this uh other people in there were like, Oh no, you don't need to be coming to church here, you you don't belong here, you know.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: I had that side of it too.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, finally got baptized in uh in January and then just kept growing, you know, just kept going to church.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: My friend did not come.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: She was by then she was freaked out because she knew that I was about to go, you know, towards God.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and of course, all of that did end up happening, you know.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: I had to just, but that was another encounter I had with God.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was driving to work one day, and I had, you know, I quit the band, put all that down, and I had already started, you know, making outward changes because I knew whatever this was, I needed it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if this was part of it, I was gonna embrace it 100%.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Was that before you got baptized, Mary?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was it just came through like the Bible study.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and then I do I had gotten baptized, I still hadn't received the Holy Ghost.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm trying to clean myself up, right?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I guess is a good way to put it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was driving to work one day, and I was like, okay, God, you know, I don't get it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: I here I am, you know, I've done everything, I've given up everything.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've given up the van, I've given up my music, you know, I'm not wearing pants, I'm not cutting my hair.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I said, I I've given up everything, you know, what's the deal?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And again, in an audible voice, the Lord said to me, Oh, but you haven't.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're still there.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, I knew what he meant, but I was like, No way.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: First, it scared the life out of me because there was no one else in the car with me, so it was just me and him.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I was listening to a song by Steve Kemp that said, Surrender your heart.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, hmm, hmm.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew what he meant.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: But that was that was a whoo, that was a big one.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: That was a big one, you know.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then I find that Holy Ghost.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord always like you are very aware, spiritually aware, for you to take note of what you noticed, for you to always, it seemed like you were always aware of where your spirit was going, even in you know, being gay, even with this girl, like you you uh discernment.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: You said it was just always there with you.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're born with gifts and they're without repentance, which which means he never takes it back.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only time that word repentance is used in that way.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: He never takes them away from you.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: How you use them, you answer for whether it's you know, for him or or not for him.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's your gift.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: You do with it what you want because you're gonna answer for it.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, you know, I've always had that stirring in me, always.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: I can remember things from when I was very, very small that I would see things and then later it would happen.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that's just one way the Lord protected me from things that, like I said, it could have been much worse.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: It could have been much worse.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: I just paid attention.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And going back to what you said, um, cursing identity alters destiny.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, my observation over the years has been I don't want to say that people that get abused are extra special, but there does seem to be an agenda to destroy the destiny of those who get abused.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when you see them come into the Lord, they do seem to carry an element of gifting that is a little bit different than others.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um again, not trying to make anything special or not.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to just I'm more trying to illustrate why the devil attacks and the way he attacks.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you said, to alter destiny.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think yours is still unfolding, Mary.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just hearing you talk so makes me so excited.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I haven't got to hear any of this, but um it's just super exciting to hear all the all the ways that God was revealing himself to you.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And to connect you to um Jonathan Struber, like in our circle, I know he's always been um considered a prophet, right?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've never met him.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I've listened to him, um, but I uh I don't know him.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is very interesting too that God has connected you in that way for someone to speak into your life and be able to maybe give some guidance there.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um oh yeah, from the beginning, he he was the one.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: He was the one, you know, and he uh he just uh showed me grace, you know, and that's the same thing.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only way.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you gotta love these people and you gotta you gotta lead them.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can't, you know, the Bible says you win some with love and some with fear, but these people where I come from, you can't, I'm not scared of anything, bro.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've been through so much that you know I it had to be had to be love.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: And most people that are coming through this, it has to be love that reaches them.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's the only it's the greatest of all, you know.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Paul said the greatest of these is love.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's and well, even Jesus said, You love God, you love your neighbor.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, you know, it's it's the most important thing that we can do to lead someone to Christ is just to love them.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: You just love them.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, once I got the Holy Ghost, it just and even then, well, you know, it's the it I went to a camp meeting uh in Louisiana district, and uh the Louisiana district is huge, right?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's and I had never been to one, and it just so happened that the the man that was preaching, my friends were telling me, Mary, this has never been one like this, and he was preaching about wounded warriors, and every night he was speaking to you know people that were wounded, and and that Monday night I started crying, probably for the first time since I was nine years old.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: I never cried, I never I've broken so many bones, and I would just come in, say, Dad, I need to go to the hospital.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I never cried, my heart was like stone.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I started crying, and then Tuesday night, same thing, just bawling Wednesday night and Thursday night.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember what the message was about, but I do remember that I cried so much.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: I had my head down in my lap, and the whole bottom of my dress was soaking wet.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: My friend was sitting beside, she said, Mary, I've never seen anything like it.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Tears were just falling out of my hair, and it was just walls, walls, walls that were coming down.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so Sunday, same, and then we went into a revival in this church, and you know, still I was just weeping and weeping, and finally, I think it was Tuesday night.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was sitting on the second to the last row, you know, and at the altar call, everyone was at the front, I was in the back, and I was again just weeping and weeping and weeping, and I just felt my felt like my lips got were getting numb, you know.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And by then I had a lot of instruction, I knew what was happening, but the Lord just nobody touched me, nobody was around me.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: The Holy Ghost just fell on me.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was just me and God.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: And literally I stayed there till I don't know, midnight, one in the morning, two.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: They they carried me out of there.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: People's I I tell people all the time, they say, Oh, I'm spirit filled.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, No, I got ghosted, bro.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: I was drunk, drunk, drunk in the Holy Ghost.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: They literally carried me out of there.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Finally, everybody's like, Can we go now?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was like laid out.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh there was a tons of interpretation that went.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Forth about it's around 11, 12 o'clock at night.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's only a few of us left there.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it was one, it was all meant for me.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone was like, Wow.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, that's how I came into it with the fire and the prophetic word.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, and the Lord said to me, Do not be afraid, do not be afraid.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: I will go before you.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I that's he said that to me so many times throughout these years, you know, do not be afraid.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, you're talking 90s, the AIDS was still a thing, and you know, all of these other things are still really taboo and they're not talked about.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And the church didn't want people like me.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they just didn't want them in their building, you know.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: So somebody had to break that mold, and the Lord knew man, I didn't care what people in the world thought about me, and I sure didn't care what some dumb Pentecostal thought about me either.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, by then, by then I know who I am.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know who I am.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not backing down.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not backing down.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care what anybody thinks.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Me and God, and in fact, I've told people that look, me and God are good.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a problem with me, you need to go to that altar right there because it's your problem, you know.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: For real.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: For real.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've said some crazy things to people, Kathy, but it is what it is, you know.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to tell you about a new resource.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: I recently wrote a book, a children's book, called Where Did That Come From?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's about intrusive thoughts.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're an adult, you know that you have intrusive thoughts, and children have intrusive thoughts, but they don't have the cognitive ability to understand them like we do as adults, but they really, really affect kids.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to write a children's book that adults could use to help the children in their life, whether it's a Sunday school teacher, a pastor, a parent, a school counselor, a school teacher, or even other therapist.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to create a resource that allows us to talk to kids about the thoughts that they're having, but also teach kids how they can overcome those thoughts.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a Christian-based book, so the solution is going to be a Christian-based solution.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I I'm not trying to sell a ton of books.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the purpose for me writing the book.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose is to create a resource that we could use to help more children.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, it's called Where Did That Come From.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you can find it on Amazon, and there is a link attached below.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you'll get that.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it helps and hope it would be a valuable resource to you.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's so powerful.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Mary, for me, when I let those walls down and I let God back into that space, I then became really exposed.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I became vulnerable to other people's opinions, other people's feelings about me.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I didn't know how to maintain that, you know, kind of, hey, I don't care what you think about me that I had in the world.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because like you said, your heart is just, you know, um armored up.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so you were able to maintain that once you came into the church.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: You never you never became susceptible to what people thought.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've I did.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, and and I think that's why the Lord picked me, you know, because I really once I had started, once I got in the word and I began to really know him, yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, you know, like uh this is a cool story too.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had been had the Holy Ghost for like a week, two weeks, maybe, you know, and I'm just in the word, I'm embracing, I'm starving, I'm starving, you know, for this bread of life, you know.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm I'm reading, I'm I'm in it.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a girl that worked for me, and she uh had slammed her fingers in her shower door that morning.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so all day long she was just whining and whining.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: My finger hurts.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: I hate whiners, I've never been a whiner.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: So she I finally I walked beside her and she said something, and I just reached over and grabbed her hand.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: I said, In Jesus' name, I mean, worked for the Bible people, right?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, man, I'm telling you, I felt something shoot out the end of my fingers, and she she looked at me and she shook her hand like this.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: She said, Damn, Miss Mary, pray for something else.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you know, I mean, the Lord healed her hand just that quick, just boom.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was freaked me out as much as it freaked her out, you know.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, whoa, wow, you know, this is so cold, you know.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, but then people at church, you know, I can't go tell everybody that because I've barely been in church, and look where I came from, and all you dignified people sitting here, you know, you don't do that.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: So they all want to get mad at me.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, look, I'm just dumb enough to believe everything that Bible says, or Sister Mickey says, No, you're smart and smart enough to believe it.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: And she's right, and I'm just smart enough to believe it.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: It hit the same yesterday, today, and forever, and greater works than these.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all you do well, I want to do it.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Let me do it, then I'm there, you know.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I'm telling you, when I just hit the ground running and I've just never looked back, you know, I'm just ate up with it.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: So at what point do you think you began to believe God loved you?
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think during all of the making himself very real, you know, I just began to see so many little things.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: One other thing that happened was, you know, I was still with my friend, but I knew I had to get out of there.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: But uh there were some ladies in the church they needed some stuff at church for a little meeting.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I was coming from the restaurant to bring it to them.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: And um one of the these ladies started asking me questions.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, dude, you know, why are you asking me this?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so then they decide they want to have this prayer meeting with me, you know.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, well, okay, they're gonna cast the devil out of me, right?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, well, okay, but then you know, I had to go contend with my friend over here, but I'm telling you, the Lord showed me, I saw his hand and he was moving things.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: I literally saw it with my physical, you know, he was moving things in my out of the way and in my life so that I could go from here to here.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: He showed me that, so once I saw that too, you know, I I was like, Okay, I get it.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I you begin to trust him.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I began to trust him, and that was a journey, you know.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't trust anyone, but it would right, and then I'm still funny about people.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now I trust God with everything in me, but there's not a lot of people that I give, you know, you have to earn that with me.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, it just it's just wise and probably discern discernment, maybe so right anyway.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that it was things like that that just kept happening.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: I could see him moving, and when I finally get the Holy Ghost, and I'm like, okay, now I gotta move.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have to move, but I worked all over the state, so I'm like, well, I can I had a home in Shreveport, that's where my office was.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was the our company office was so I could live there, I could live in Lake Charles.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had many friends now in Lake Charles at Brother Ewing's church, you know, and or I could live in Alexandria because this is I work in Alexandria all I've never been to the church there, but I work there a lot, so I can live there.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I was at a regional meeting in Dallas, and uh I was in my room praying, and I'm like, okay, God, when I get home, I need to move like this weekend.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: I need to move, I need to know where I need to go.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm praying, I'm and I opened my Bible to Acts the 28th chapter in verse 11.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's Paul's shipwrecked on an island, and it says, and after three months, we departed in the ship of Alexandria.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, all right, there you go.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Moving, moving to Alexandria.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I did, and ended up, you know, at the POA for 35 years.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've been there, and and even that, you know, it was a journey, it was a journey for for all of them and for me, because you know it's I I was a miracle, literally, yes, a miracle.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: No one had ever seen someone come through this and just live for God and stay in church, and because people would get the Holy Ghost, of course, and just go right back out, you know.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: But so it was yeah, it was another journey, but it was so worth it, so worth it.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: So so that day in the car when when Steve Camp's song was on, by the way, I used to listen to him so.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's so great.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love him.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, tell him Jesus loves him.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I listened to that whole CD all the time because even though I was very backslidden at that time in my life, I remember, you know, driving through the mountains from Eureka coming back to Reading at the time where I lived, and I would just weep the whole time singing those songs because that's what my heart longed for, but I just didn't know how to get there.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: But when when you were listening and the Lord said to you, No, you haven't, um what do you think he was asking you to surrender your heart?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was still living in the same house with my friend, so I knew that's what he meant.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to totally cut this off from your life.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: You have to give me everything, everything, everything, and I I knew what he meant.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew it was gonna take everything in me to do that a hundred percent, but it was something that he wanted me to do, yeah, and you know, he doesn't put more on us than we can bear.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had to just determine within myself, okay, okay.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did you answer him in that moment that you would?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh or did it take a while?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there's two things that we once we know what he's asking, we respond with yes or no, or I need to think about it, right?
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Whether we vocalize that or we're just thinking that in our thoughts.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: So when he asked you that and you became aware of what he was asking, what was that process like for you?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did you just did it scare you?
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Were you I I know you weren't ready physically, but emotionally, mentally, I should say mentally first.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did you know that you would or were did it set you back?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, I didn't know that I would.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that I needed to.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, because I literally I was like, are you serious?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for real, yeah, you know, so it I knew I knew what it was, but I didn't know how I was going to make that happen because it wasn't just about me, it was about a whole nother person, you know, and and as far as I know, this person still is not in church, grew up in church, fifth generation, you know, and so the Lord used this to make lemonade out of lemons for me, you know, but it wasn't just about me, my my life was wrapped up with someone else as well.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew I was gonna have to cause this person a lot of pain.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it it was a struggle for me, but ultimately, in in fact, she said that to me.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I I gave up God for you, and I was like, Well, you're an idiot, no one asked you to do that.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: What is wrong with you?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're stupid to do that, you know.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Why I don't feel bad about that, you know.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I I just eventually just the hunger, just the the God part of me, it won, you know.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank God you won, you know, and the closer you get to him, you know, that's something that uh sister Mickey told me a long time ago that you know, the grounds level at Calvary, you know, but it's kind of a triangle, and the closer you get to God, there's less and less room for anyone else, you know, it's you and him, and and I embrace that, you know.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't get lonely, I don't need any kind of relationships, I just don't, you know, other than you know, my brothers and sisters in Christ and you know, people that speak into my life and all of that, but all the other I have no need for that whatsoever.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm complete in him, and he is everything emotionally and mentally that I need it's Jesus, it's just Jesus for me, and not everybody can do that, and I get it.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Paul said that, you know, not everybody can do that, but for me, I'm good.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think some people are called to that.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: I do too, I do too, and I embrace that.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm um I mean I've been it allows me freedom to travel.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've done mission work all over the place.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've been, you know, for months and months at a time.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've been in Malaysia and you know, I love, love, love that.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the freedom to just God can say, okay, I want you to go here and I can go, you know.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: As long as my pastor's okay, I'm good, you know?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it's love.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think you know, when you have that place with the Lord and you you have that his voice talking to you and that walk, and it it's like nothing else.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, nothing like it.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing like it.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't trade it for anything, absolutely would not.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: But very content and at peace with God and man, you know, there's just that's the other thing you cannot buy.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot buy peace, and that comes with the Holy Ghost, you know?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just that peace.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mary, that day when those sisters wanted to pray with you.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you look at all of that, do you feel like it was uh a spiritual oppression?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you feel like you had a demon?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like it was a level of possession?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: How do you interpret that perversive spirit that you had?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you interpret that?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I knew that's what they thought.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was good.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: We went.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, we prayed, we stayed in church till that two or three in the morning, you know, and there three of them just you know, laying hands on me, and we're all praying.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm praying, but I never puked up a devil or anything like that because I wasn't like that.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: I when I got the Holy Ghost, I believe anything that was that kind of a spirit left my left me.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, there were some things I still had to deal with, like bitterness and you know, unforgiveness, those things, but no, and I think in their mind, you know, that's all they know.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's all old timey church people, everything's just the devil, it's just the devil, you know, and I get it now, but no, they finally there was just uh a spirit of peace that's so funny.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about that, it just settled in that room, and we were all just like, no, we can go home, you know.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they all felt it, so it wasn't.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think honestly, Kathy, that was more for them than for me.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I mean, who doesn't need prayer?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think had you had the Holy Ghost at that time then?
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Had you already had the Holy Ghost?
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did you get did you get the no?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: I you know what I don't remember where it was in the process.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: I know I had already been baptized, but yeah, I see I think oh you know, there are two ways that I've I've found through studying and reading and just learning that these this can happen.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: And one is emotional traumas that just open doors, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or you know, Romans chapter one talks about uh the progression of a reprobate mind, and it begins with unthankfulness and it just goes on in the uh gosh, one of those verses says, Because they knew God and glorified him not as God.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the word new right there, if you look up the original language, it means to know by experience.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's someone that has had an encounter with God, like the Holy Ghost, and willfully walked away.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: So, see, that's a whole nother realm.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Those kind of people may be puking up devils, you know, but people that have just come through emotional traumas, and uh, I don't think it's the same type of, if you want to use the word possession, I don't think it that's the same thing at all.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I was just asking because you talked about the perversive spirit being so powerful.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also it's educational for the church at large now, as we have seen and are seeing uh many people from the uh homosexual community come to the Lord for the first time and then come back to the Lord you know, after having backslid and they return home as prodigals.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I I don't know in church culture what they're equipped with, and so having someone like you who has walked through that could help a lot in you know the ignorance that we have in churches and how to pray.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think you're spot on about the love piece, but there's a lot of probably uh ignorance there that um hearing from you would be helpful.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is confusing for people.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you pray for deliverance?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it um well seeing that's a big word.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's a big word, and it can mean a lot of things.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, possession can too.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I believe that spirit is so powerful, maybe not because of possession, you know, like, but because it possesses this, your mind and your emotions, and uh it just controls everything about you.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's like from an external place, like it can.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: It probably can be both.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: It can probably be both.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just for me, it was, I think, more that uh the the and I have picked up a devil, but it wasn't that.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and and it was after 10 years in church and living for God, but see emotional healing is such a process, and and you it's like that scripture where he talks about you have uh having the faith to move a mountain, you know.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_02: If if you just jerk up a mountain, you're just gonna leave this big black hole, right?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: But if you this mountain and you uh deal with this thing, and then God's gonna give you a break, and then you're just gonna show you this and you can deal with this, and then he's gonna give you a break because what's happening is you're letting go of things, he's replacing them, so your identity is slowly coming together, and eventually that mountain is gone, but there's not a big hole there, it's beautiful, you know.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's flowers and grass, and and you're you're a whole person, but it if he jerked it all out of us at one time, we really would be confused, right?
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: We wouldn't know who we were.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: It it's be a hot mess.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's a process, which it has to be to even And keep your sanity.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be a process.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I would, it took 10 years of really seeking God and loving God and living for God for me to get to that final this mom thing.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: That was probably the deepest wound of my being.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I had been on a 21-day fast.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was in my room just praying and weeping, you know, and and suddenly I had a vision of that day.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: Just exactly the way it happened.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: The Lord just brought it before me, and immediately I began to grieve as a nine-year-old finally, and just let all of that go.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when I did, I peeked up a little root, and I knew what it was, the root of bitterness.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: I knew exactly what it was.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: Came up, and then it was just like this light came on, and I could see everything so clearly.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was the most amazing thing.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then that was that was the final uh root, the final anything, you know.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: Then I just it just totally was life-changing.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was through the whole thing, but that was the like the last the last piece of healing.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: The last people will hear 10 years and think, oh my gosh, if it takes 10 years for me to heal.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know in my life, I I always have used the term pacifier, you know, because God takes us, like you said, just one layer at a time.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: And as He's healing us in those layers, He is replacing it with things.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the 10 years doesn't feel like nothing's happening.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um it feels like it's just like the Bible says, going from faith to faith and glory to glory.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: Glory to glory.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: Mary, what um what ideas do you think that you have had of God in the early years of coming to him versus how that has evolved to how you know him now?
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: For for anybody who's listening who might be thinking about coming to God, thinking about coming home, you know, just speaking to assumptions and expectations that um may not be accurate, but you know, just maybe talk about that a little bit.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think learning not to blame him for anything, because people make choices, and once you can really grasp that concept, like for me, even my mom, you know, I'm like, what happened to her?
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, when you can start stepping away and going, wow, you know, what happened to them?
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_02: And in, you know, and go, wow, you know, God, like I said, I've He kept me from many, many things when I I'm looking back and I'm seeing things and and and then I can appreciate.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I know all this happened, but you kept me from these other things, and now I get it, it's not your fault, it's not your fault at all.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: Forgive me.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people make choices, and they make choices off of how they see themselves, you know.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's terrible what people do, but they don't know God, you know.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_02: I can feel sorry for them now because gosh, you know, what happened to you to make you this way?
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_02: What you know, so once I was able to just go, you know, and understand that God is not to blame for anything.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in fact, I heard a message when it was so funny that somebody was saying, Well, God, you know, why is this and why is this?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And God's like, Well, I don't know why are you asking me?
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I left you in charge, you know.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_02: He put Adam and He down here and gave them dominion, so He it's not His fault, it's our fault, it's our fault as humans that things are happening the way they're happening and what's going on, it's people's choices, it's not God, you know, and He He loves me, and it it took me a minute to get that.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I I believe it's a revelation, honestly.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_02: I believe it's a revelation to really understand.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I can tell you when I got it, I was giving somebody a Bible study, and we were in John chapter 15, you know, and he said, You've not chosen me, I've chosen you.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I read that for the hundredth time, I guess, but this light came on in my head, and I was like, Whoa, dude, you know, eight billion people on this planet, but he chose me, and I was chosen all along, I didn't know it, but that wasn't his fault, that was my fault.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, it was my fault that I didn't pursue God, that I didn't want to know God.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't his fault at all.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Those were my choices, that was me.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So once I could can just the lights come on, and I'm like, wow, you know, and I appreciate the goodness of God, I appreciate the love of God, I appreciate the mercy and the grace of God.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: I do a thousand percent.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't ever want to take it for granted because I know what it's like to not have it or to not feel it.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I probably had it, I just didn't know it, you know.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for people that just give him a chance, you know, you got to open yourself up, he's there, and wherever you left him, he's still there waiting.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't go anywhere, you did, you know.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and I've said that all along, you know.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: People say, Well, when God found me, I'm like, No, I found him, he knew where I was all the time.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't lost, I was, you know.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when you just give him an opportunity, just give him a chance, then you he'll make himself real to you.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_02: He knows where you are, and he knew what it was gonna take for me.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it probably doesn't take all that for many other people.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I could sit here all day and tell you things that God did for me and showed me, and physical things I've seen that people will be like, What?
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, it's a real thing.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: He opened that Elijah's servant's eyes and he can open yours too.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can see, he can do it, and for me, he did because he knew I needed that.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So he knows where you are, and he's going to meet you where you are, but you he goes where he's invited, yeah.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Bottom line, he goes where he's invited.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to know him, ask him because he he'll do it, he's right there.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's not the problem, we're the problem.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So good, Mary.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just love your spirit and your heart, and it makes me teary-eyed because I just the conviction by which you speak is felt, and uh it's a beautiful thing to see.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know you before, but it's very obvious the work God has done in you and is still doing in you, in all of us.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you you recently had a restaurant in Alexandria, you sold it, and you're in Denver.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to destiny, where where do you think your life is headed?
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think this next chapter is about?
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big move for you.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_02: It is, because I'm deeply rooted in the POA, you know.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_02: But right now, I think it for such a time as this, I'm here.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I still have my place there and I'll go home.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I will never get too far away from the POA.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's my that's my family.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_02: But there's uh this church is in a revival, and and I can reach people, some people can't.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, so I I honestly believe that I'm here for a season.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: How long that is, I don't know.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: But again, that comes from not being tied down.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if God says you can do this, then go do it, you know.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for now I'm here, I don't know.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't know.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_02: But whatever uh the Lord wants me to do, I want to do it.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever it looks like, I don't know, but I just want to be present and pay attention.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if the Lord puts people in my path, then I need to reach them.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_02: I need to reach for them, and then they choose, you know.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you people I call it a pig pen moment, you know.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I had one where you know, the the prodigal is in that pig pen, and the Bible says that he came to his senses, and so if you research that, it's it's uh I I believe there's a a little small space that the spirit realm is dead quiet.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you can see and you can hear, and what you do in that moment, the decision you make will determine your destiny.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if you come to yourself, then you make a choice, a conscious choice.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you want uh somebody to drink, what is it?
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_02: You lead a horse to water, but if you want him to drink, you better bring a thirsty horse.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you find people that are hungry and thirsty for God and just pour into them, you know.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if they don't want it, then what did what did he tell him to do?
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_02: You shake the dust off your feet and you go find another one, you know.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's people out here that need God and that are hungry for God.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I just pray he puts them in my path and that I'm paying enough attention to reach for them, you know.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Mary, I'm almost done with questions.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I want to ask you what you feel the desires of your heart are, like where you're at.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have some desires of your heart, things you want to do in the Lord, things for yourself you'd like to accomplish?
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like the Bible says he wills in us to do his good pleasure.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like he puts desires in our heart for us to do those things.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any that you want to share?
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Not not especially.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I just get up every day and pray that I can do something to make an eternal difference in someone's life today, whatever that may be.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I do want to uh finish writing.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've started writing this little story, so I I do want to finish that.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I really do.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the Lord gave me some things the other night to finally, you know, I I started that in 05, and then some things happened, and I just put it down and I walked away from it, and I just left it.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the Lord's stirring that up again.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I really do want to finish that, and you'll be the first to know for sure, because I don't want it published by UPC.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_02: I want it because a lot of people won't read it if it has that label on it.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_02: I just want it to go into the hands of whoever God wants it to get to, you know, and and I just want it to be able to help people and to be effective.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_02: That that's probably my biggest, if you want to call it a desire, is just to be effective.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I want effective ministry, whatever it looks like.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want to I want to lay my hands on the sick, and I, you know, I have, of course, and that's God.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: He does it when he's ready, you know.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I've laid my hands on a lot of people that he didn't heal, but I've I pray for a lot of people that he has.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think with this generation in all the media, and and we have to have signs and wonders to to reach them.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_02: We have to, we have to have this to reach this generation.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm praying that there will just be uh you know an explosion of that in this generation, you know, and in some of us that have been around for a while, and we just laid things aside.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so it's time to just pick it up again and just start running.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're running out of time, we're running out of time.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it, you know, whoever brother GA used to say, the honest-hearted people just send them to us.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_02: So the ones that that really we can make a difference, you know.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_02: My friend said that to me.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be the one person that makes a difference in your life.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I laughed and laughed in her face, but honestly, she was God used her to be that, and I would I just want to be that difference for anybody that's just hungry for God, you know.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I want to just flow, and I just want people to just feel the presence of God when they walk up on me, just to feel the anointing, to feel God, you know.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's probably my biggest desire is just to just overflow, just overflow, overflow, and just to be the Jesus that people need, you know, to just hug people and let them know that's God, God's hugging you, you know.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is from Jesus, so probably that would be the biggest desire of my heart.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I have experienced you, and so I know firsthand that that's definitely what you bring when you when you are around people, and uh it's a beautiful thing, and I it it is a wonderful thing because we all needed to feel the Lord at one point in our life, so when we can give that to someone else, it really matters.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I want the thing that matters, it is, yes.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see you write your book because Mary, you are powerful in what you understand and how you understand it and your experiences, you know, and um people need.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had someone ask me the other day, you know, when I feel that place in God, how do I hold on to that?
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because you feel it, you identify it, you have this moment with Him, but then you go back to life, and then you have to walk it out.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like there's so many people that don't know how to hold on from this moment to the next moment and learn how to live in the in-between.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, testimonies like yours and experiences like yours really will help people know number one, they're not alone and they can do it and normalize what that expectation would look like so that when something comes up, they're not surprised by it and they don't feel like the Lord's left them, you know.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to expect the attacks because they're gonna come.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm just like, bro, is that all you got?
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_02: But now you have go ahead.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I even if it's church people, I'm just like, whatever, man.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know, I just recognizing that.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's the deal.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's the key, yes, recognize the enemy, and he's gonna come in any fashion, family, friends, church, non-church, it doesn't matter.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_02: You recognize him for who he is, and then you're just like, I just like blow him off, you know.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just blow it off because I know who I am, right?
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where we have to get to.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_02: We have to know who we are in Christ, you know.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And once you can really grab hold of that, right?
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Then you can stand against anything.
• 1:23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you can stand, you can just stand, even if you can't move, you can stand there, you know.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh if people say things to me, and a lot of times people may try to give me a word, I'm like, no, I just flush.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Chink, you just flush and move on, you know, you just move on.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's just the way it is for me.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, whatever.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, Mary.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what would you say to I always end with two questions?
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um before I end, is there anything we missed?
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Anything you want to share that we didn't get to?
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, not that I can think of.
• 1:23:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I can sit here all day, you know.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_02: But we can't.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could listen all day.
• 1:23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um because we just barely scratch the surface, right?
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and any anyone that comes on the podcast, like we're we're just barely scratching the surface.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_01: But the miracle is that Jesus rescued you and and that you identified his love.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's what keeps us like when we know that we know that we know he loves us and that he is our you know our strong tower and refuge, and he's just everything.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't ever want to leave, you know.
• 1:24:27
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to the prodigal or to somebody who is still in that struggle of wrestling within themselves of choosing the right thing and making a decision to come or take a step towards the Lord?
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to them?
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_02: What do you have to lose?
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you're already miserable and unhappy and struggling.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you have to lose to give God a chance?
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what you're gonna lose.
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna lose all of that and find this peace and this love, you know, and this acceptance.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I the only thing I've ever given up is hell.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I'm going to heaven.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: So no matter what I go through, I'm good.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's only for this little while.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I and that's how I get through things now.
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just for a minute, you know.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just for a minute.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good, Mary.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to the parents or spouses of um who have loved ones that haven't come home yet?
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't give up, you know.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_02: You you have to just keep praying and keep reaching, keep loving, don't condemn them.
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_02: They already know that.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_02: They already, they already feel all that.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_02: They feel the condemnation and probably self-loath.
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_02: They don't even like themselves, probably.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_02: But if you just can just love people, just love them, keep praying for them because you know, Besta Lane says, We pray, God answers, but details take time, so you don't ever give up because he's gonna be moving things, he's gonna be moving things, but you gotta stand in the gap.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can't quit.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_02: You just because as long as we're praying, he's moving, and we don't see it, but he is, he is yeah, yeah, and and details take time, and and people have to God has to prepare that soil, you know, he has to stir them up, and that prayer is what's gonna stir them.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you just never ever give up.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just keep praying.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_01: We never know the date when it's actually gonna happen, but there will be a date.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_01: There is, there is, yeah, God knows.
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Mary, I I love you, you're very special, and uh I'm so grateful I got to meet you when you were here, and um it's a blast.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you praying with me for me, and it just really touched my heart.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, because it was what I needed, and um, it was just a pleasure.
• 1:27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Jesus.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 1:27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for being with me today, and um I look forward to you writing that book.
• 1:27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get on it.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for everyone out there, thanks for listening.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you do um struggle with homosexuality, if you've ever been in that arena or you know family members or friends, um, and you need some help, you need some advice, you need some encouragement, you need some direction, whatever you need in that um space, uh we have a lot of resources for you in that and people that have walked out of that we we can recommend to you.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_01: So please reach out.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can reach out through YouTube in the comment section.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can email us Kathy at theredeembackslider.org, um, Facebook, Instagram, whatever you need.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_01: But um it isn't talked about a lot in the church.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's moving that direction because it is very prevalent.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um whatever you need, just reach out and ask, and we will connect you to some people that can maybe uh stand with you, walk with you, pray with you, help you.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so thank you everybody for watching.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate it, and God bless.
• 1:28:51
  SPEAKER_01: See you next week.
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 1:29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Visit our website at the redeemedbackslider.org.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.