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DDH - Torpedoman 2nd Class Henry Breault · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

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  History's strange, it's alien, and it won't give us what we
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  would like to have. Thank you for spending your time
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  with us here on 92.7 FM 1240 and 1350 AM WMMB.
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  Dave Bowman's been with us all day and now, as he typically
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  does on a Tuesday, he brings us Dave Does History.
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  Our typical 2 links are there for you to the Dave Bowman Show
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  and his regular podcast. Also the Dave Does History
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  podcast page and a third one that is specifically tied to
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  this story, which is what Dave Bowman.
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  Good morning. Well, good morning again.
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  You know the the Talmud has a saying, he who saves a life, it
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  is as if he has saved the entire world.
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  And I think, if I recall my New Testament studies correctly,
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  wasn't it that Jesus fellow who said greater love hath no man
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  than this, that he lay down his life for another?
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  This idea of sacrificing oneself to save someone else is deeply
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  ingrained with us. You can go back through all of
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  history and find that ideal is being held up as one of the
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  highest human ideals that there is, that there's nothing higher
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  than that. And so we find ourselves on
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  October 28th, 1923, yesterday in the dense humidity of the of the
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  Panama Canal Zone, Panama, Panama Canal Zone.
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  It was, as always, thick, heavy. You know that area.
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  The USSO 5 is one of the Navy's small coastal based submarines.
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  These are not submarines that are designed to patrol the
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  Pacific Ocean. These are based on the idea of
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  the Holland submarine, this idea that we have a bunch of coastal
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  submarines that defend the coasts of the United States and
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  in areas of interest. And, and so they're small and
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  they don't have to be really big.
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  And this is one of those. It is in the Bay.
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  They're getting ready to transit the Panama Canal and everything
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  seems to be normal. This is a sturdy vessel.
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  It had served during the Great War, which we call World War
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  One. But even the best machines are
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  vulnerable, and even the best trained crews, the best trained
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  navies, you can't account for bad luck.
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  And out of nowhere comes that bad luck.
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  A giant freighter is going to suddenly collide with the USSO
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  5, cut a hole in it and send it plunging to the bottom of the of
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  the depths. Men are going to scramble for
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  safety, but there are those who are trapped inside the sinking
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  vessel, and the clock is going to tick.
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  Today, we're going to take a look at this and we're going to
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  recount the story of unimaginable bravery.
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  When the O5 slips beneath the water, one man is going to take
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  an action that would define courage.
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  That man, torpedo man, Second Class Henry Brow, who found
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  himself, for the moment, safely above the waterline.
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  But he's going to make a choice, and his actions that day would
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  not only save another life, but would earn him the Medal of
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  Honor, the only enlisted submariner to ever receive it
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  for his actions. This is the story of the USSO 5A
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  tragic accident and a hero who went beyond the Call of Duty to
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  save a life. We pick it up in 60 seconds on
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  WMNB. So Dave, you say it's a smaller
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  submarine that Henry Brau is is serving on.
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  Give us a description of the difference in.
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  These old, these old class submarines, now you know, I'm a,
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  I'm a Cold War submariner myself.
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  My, my boat was a little bit over 560 feet long and weighed
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  about 18,000 tons. These old class submarines were
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  very small. They were 170 feet in length.
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  And remember, just because the ship is that long, the boat is
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  that long, doesn't mean that the people tank inside it is that
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  long. There's, you know, ballast tanks
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  and those kinds of things. They, they had very limited
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  range. They didn't have a, you know,
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  big fuel tanks and the likes of that.
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  They weren't nuclear powered and they were, you know, they were
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  very small and very claustrophobic, but they were
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  very good. They could only, they could dive
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  around 200 feet. They had a top speed about 14
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  knots on the surface. But keep in mind this was more
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  than 100 years ago, so you know, it's technology changes.
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  And back in those days though, the O class submarines were
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  pretty pretty resilient, pretty reliable compared to today.
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  I don't think you could get a modern submariner to get on one.
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  But at the same time, at the time, they were the top end of
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  the top end of the models. We would send these submarines
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  out to coastal ports, including the Panama Canal Zone, because
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  the Panama Canal Zone needed to be protected.
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  And so they would use them in there and, and they would, you
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  know, float back and forth between the Pacific side, the
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  Atlantic side. And of course, by 1923, the war
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  was over and there wasn't really any combat situations.
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  But at the same time, you keep training for those kinds of
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  things. So we sent a bunch of these old
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  class boats down there. By the way, we did the same
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  thing in World War 2:00. We, we kept sending submarines
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  to the, to the Panama Canal Zone to do the same thing.
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  Now that kind of duty, you know, it's, it's routine, but you, you
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  have to do the things that you got to do and you keep training
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  and you keep doing these kinds of things, but you can't really
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  prepare for the unexpected. I, you know, I tell people about
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  the time that we dove off Port Angeles and as we dove the, the
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  USS Michigan, a giant freighter went right over the top of us.
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  I was standing missile department upper level and you
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  could hear the, as the propellers went over us And I, I
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  didn't run to control, but I, I kind of made my way up there and
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  you could see everybody in control was just white as, as
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  sheets. I mean, they were shaking the
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  whole 9 yard. And Joe Adamson says to me, we
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  didn't we, we never saw it. And my answer what my question
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  was, what do you mean you never saw it?
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  You got radar, sonar, periscopes, You never saw it.
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  We never saw it. If we'd have dove 30 seconds
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  later, I wouldn't be here. So it's not, it's not something
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  that's an unusual occurrence for sufferings to be rammed by
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  surface ships. It used to happen,
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  unfortunately, far too regularly.
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  And it happens here on October 28th, the morning of October
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  28th, 1923, the O 5 is cruising through the Bay.
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  They're getting ready to transit the canal and it gets hit by a
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  basically a banana freighter that punches a hole in the side
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  and the ship begins to sink. So it wasn't submerged at the
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  time. No, no.
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  In fact, in that era, Bill submarines only submerged to
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  attack. They they tended to stay on the
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  surface. They were basically surface
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  craft that could dive to attack. They didn't have, you know, the
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  unlimited underwater ability that we have now with which has
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  come about because of nuclear power.
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  The the impact caused the death of three men, but at the same
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  and at the same time the ship began to sink.
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  Now the abandoned ship order is given and people start in
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  rushing to get off the ship. The the the United Fruit Company
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  freighter of Banyas hits it. You can't.
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  Submarines are not armored, so when it hits, it's going to RIP
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  a huge hole. The damage is catastrophic.
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  O5 begins immediately taking on water, and the extent of the
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  damage means that the submarine is rapidly sinking.
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  Within seconds, sea waters rushing through the breach.
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  It's flooding compartments, forcing crew members to scramble
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  to the exits. Now, some men are may able to
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  make it to the surface, others are trapped inside.
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  But the plus side here is that the water where they are isn't
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  very deep, around 4045 feet deep.
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  It's not. It's not terribly deep, but it's
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  also in the era before we have developed escape systems.
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  Today, if a submarine sank in 45 feet of water, well, on my boat,
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  it wouldn't matter because the hatches would still be above
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  water. But in some submarines, 45 feet
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  would not be a difficult thing technically to escape from.
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  But in that era, there was none of the equipment that we had and
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  none of the systems that we have in place now to do those kinds
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  of things. But the problem is, as the boat
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  is sinking, Henry Brow, who's a torpedo in second class, has
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  made it, you know, to relative safety.
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  But he realizes that one of his friends, one of his shipmates,
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  is still below decks. And he thinks, well, I, I better
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  go help. He dives back down the surface,
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  gets to where his friend is and realizes they can't get out.
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  And so he shuts the watertight door, seals the compartment that
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  they're in. And as the ship sinks to the
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  bottom of the Bay, they are trapped inside of this room,
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  inside of this compartment on the submarine.
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  Imagine that, if you will. You were on a submarine that is
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  now sunk. What's going to happen now,
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  Bill? Why did you come back?
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  Why did you why did you even try to do that?
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  Yeah, I I get it. But you know, I was.
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  Like a coal miner at the at the bottom of a mine after a
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  collapse in a mine. You know, I would imagine it's
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  probably the same way. But boys, there's there's just
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  something terrifying about this situation as it should better.
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  And that's that's where we're going to start the rest of the
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  story. How much time do they have to
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  get to somebody like that in in that enclosed space?
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  That kind of depends on how much air you have, how much you know,
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  how much the air banks are charged, if they're charged.
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  You know, I mean, if you recall the the Chilean submarine,
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  somebody said a week, who knows for sure.
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  It varies. And we pick it up in moments on
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  WMMB. Dave Bowman joins us for our
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  weekly dive into history. Pay attention, there will be a
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  test. No, there won't be a test, but
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  you will be held accountable. Bill Nick Live.
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  The McPherson Financial Group bringing you this hour of the
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  show and as Victor Law told you, Dave Bowman in the middle of our
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  Dave Does history story. And when we when last we left
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  our hero, he was under the sea in a compartment with his buddy.
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  He went back to rescue and we don't know how much they've time
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  they've got before they can get to him.
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  So heroic move going back to start with Dave and then he sees
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  safest way to do this is to give our chance, ourselves a chance
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  at survival. It's a it's an incomprehensible
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  thing to me. I mean, what, what man in his
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  right mind says the submarine is sinking.
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  I'm going back in because my friend, my shipmate, my
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  crewmate, Chief Electricians mate, Lawrence Brown is still in
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  there and he needs help. Now, we all like to think we
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  would do that, but sometimes I wonder if we would.
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  But in this particular case, Henry Brown does.
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  He goes back inside the ship. He pushes forward to the torpedo
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  room where, where the the where Chief Brown is.
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  And he gets the door shut, sealing off the compartment,
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  which essentially makes it, you know, airtight.
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  Now we're only in 4045 feet of water.
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  Submarine has a test depth of about 200 feet, so there's no
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  danger of it imploding or anything like that.
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  But I don't, I don't know how to describe this to you.
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  I really don't The, the power is out.
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  It's completely dark, Bill. It's a Stygian blackness.
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  Now, it's possible they had flashlights and that sort of
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  thing so that they could see around a little bit and maybe
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  there's some residual panel lights or something like that.
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  But for the most part it is a blackness that that you can
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  almost feel. Now, I've been on a submarine
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  that that lost power like that and it is very disconcerting.
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  And ours was only for a few seconds.
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  And it was, it was the stuff of nightmares.
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  It really is. I mean you.
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  I can imagine, yeah. You mentioned the coal miner
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  thing. It's the same kind of thing.
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  Now you've got the issue of, you know, is the air going to hold
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  out? Is there's no water to drink,
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  there's no food, none of those kinds of things.
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  There actually is water, but they suspect that it might have
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  been poisoned by the lead batteries.
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  So they don't want to drink it because they don't want to get
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  lead poisoning from that. So what do you do?
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  Submarine hits the bottom. You know, there's a lot of
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  noise, there's a lot of shaking. There's a lot of, you know, it's
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  very disconcerting. And now you're trapped in this
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  room with literally no way to get out.
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  Again. This was before we invented
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  escape trunks and that kind of thing.
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  So it it was what do you do have you have you signed your own
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  death warrant by going back to try to help your friend or you
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  know what's what's the outcome now sitting on the bottom at 45
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  feet roughly. You have an opportunity here.
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  And the Navy has learned through previous accidents that it is
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  possible to raise these submarines up the top side.
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  They're going through the, through the roll calls.
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  They're like, well, there's everybody here.
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  Well, we're, you know, basically 5 people short.
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  We've got three that we know are dead, 2 missing.
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  Is it possible that they are alive down there?
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  Is it possible that they survived?
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  The only way we know one way or the other, the only way we can
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  find out is what we got to get this submarine off the bottom,
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  at least part of it so that we can get them out if they're if
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  they're even in there. And those are the questions are
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  going to be going to happen. The word is spreading.
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  We think that there are two men trapped inside here.
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  Navy divers, canal workers join forces.
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  They're going to try to raise this thing up.
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  But time is against them. How much oxygen do they have?
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  Are they hurt? What's going on?
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  The only way we can find out, Bill, is to get this thing to
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  the surface, at least partially, and try to find out if they're
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  still in there or not. What are the techniques they're
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  using? And like you said, this is over
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  100 years ago to get these Subs back to the surface or at least
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  partially. So, Dave, what are they doing?
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  It's, it's strange, isn't it? I mean, we talked about this
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  like it was yesterday, but it was more than 100 years ago at
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  101 years ago. As a matter of fact, technology
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  is much different. There wasn't any scuba equipment
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  back then. Those things didn't exist.
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  So you had, you had hard hat divers going down, you had the,
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  the, the engineers trying to do all this stuff.
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  And eventually, again, it's a it's a complicated story, but at
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  the same time, the whole time, Bro Brow and and Brown are
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  trapped inside this thing. The engineers and the divers are
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  trying to figure out how to lift this thing up.
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  Of course, there are multiple ways to do it.
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  You could do change, you could do ropes, you could do all kinds
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  of things that that try. But you know, is the submarine
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  stuck in the bomb? What if it's stuck?
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  What if it's flooded? What if it's heavy?
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  What if all these kind of questions enter into all these
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  things? Submarine salvage is not an easy
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  thing to do. We learned that with the the
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  S51, or we'll learn it again later with the S 51.
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  But the reality is they managed to get the submarine lifted just
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  enough that the forward torpedo room will break the surface.
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  And as soon as it does from the outside, they open the Hatch and
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  of course Brow and Brown emerge from the submarine.
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  They're not, you know, in great shape because they've been
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  overnight. They they, they've been trapped
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  in the submarine overnight and they managed to get them out.
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  The submarine is later recovered and eventually scrapped.
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  But at the same time, you have this miraculous rescue of Brow
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  and Brown. The story gets picked up by the
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  newspapers. Everybody's excited about it.
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  And then, you know, like anything, it just sort of fades
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  from the news because other things are going to happen.
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  It's a remarkable story. It's a remarkable tale of
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  engineering, you know, working quickly all these kinds of
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  things to rescue these two men. But that's not even the more
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  most remarkable thing about this whole story.
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  The the realization that we slowly come to is this idea that
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  Henry Brau, instead of saving himself, instead of saying,
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  well, I got out, but nobody else did.
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  Instead of doing all that, in the moment of decision, he turns
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  around and goes back inside the submarine for the sole purpose
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  of trying to save his friend's life.
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  And that is a decision that could have cost him his life,
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  could have cost him everything. And the moment he makes that
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  decision, Bill, he has no idea what the end result of it's
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  going to be. He doesn't know what's going to
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  happen. He doesn't know that they're
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  going to be able to rescue this. So why do you make those kinds
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  of decisions? Is it instinct?
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  Is it training? Is it duty?
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  What is it? Did he have any idea, Dave, that
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  that there was a path for them out in the time that they
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  thought they might have had remaining before it's sunk all
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  the. Way I don't see how he could
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  have. They didn't have escape trunks,
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  so he, he wouldn't have known that.
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  So is he, You know, it's always the question of motivation.
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  Why did somebody do that? Well, like the Talmud says, man
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  who saves one life, it's as if he has saved the world.
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  We'll be back to wrap it up. Take your calls when we continue
• 19:45
  with Dave Does history on Bill Mick live, the McPherson
• 19:49
  Financial Group this hour sponsor the program.
• 19:51
  Your opportunity to check in with Dave on this week's Dave
• 19:54
  does history. If you'd like to do that, by the
• 19:56
  way, podcast links to Dave and Dave show and one specific story
• 20:00
  regarding this incident linked up for you on today's show page
• 20:04
  entitled balancing acts. You find that at billmic.com and
• 20:08
  look for the Dave Bowman links there.
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  They will be in the final paragraph of our post there
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  today. And Dave so Henry?
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  Bro gets a Medal of Honor for this act that you wonder how
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  many people would perform it. You'd like to think everybody
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  would consider it and and that somebody would be coming for you
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  if you were the guy left in the sub.
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  You'd like to think that and, and we all think that we're
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  going to be the hero, but I, I think it's a, it's a great study
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  in psychology motivation. There are all those questions
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  that enter into that. I mean, what, what's the action
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  that you take when you're faced with that kind of situation?
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  And I don't know that there's any definitive answer on that.
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  But in this particular case, Henry Brown makes the decision
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  to go back to his friend to help his friend.
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  And it turns out after they're rescued, that Brown the the the
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  the friend who bro goes back to save really needed Brow's help.
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  I mean, he was, he was not hurt badly or anything like that, but
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  he was very uptight, you know, very losing it mindset wise and
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  that sort of thing. And it's brow that calms him
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  down, which of course he does because he's the second class
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  Petty Officer and the other guy's the chief.
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  And if you're your Navy, you know what I'm talking about.
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  So there's this, there's this mindset.
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  And of course, after they're rescued, they sort of play it
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  off. The Brow really says, well, I
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  just did what I was trained to do.
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  I just sort of, you know, I just did what I was supposed to do.
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  But it's Brown who tells this, this story to people who are
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  listening about how he wouldn't have made it without without
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  Brow's help, which, of course, is the highest action that you
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  can perform. And so the Navy sort of gets
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  this mindset that we need to acknowledge this.
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  And through a long set of circumstances that I don't have
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  time to go into here, this turns into the presentation of a Medal
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  of Honor. And there's some great
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  photographs of Henry Brown getting his Medal of Honor from
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  Calvin Coolidge. The president of the United
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  States awards it to him. And it reads as follows for
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  heroism and devotion to duty while serving on board the US
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  submarine O 5 at the time of the sinking of that vessel.
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  On the morning of 28 October 1923, O 5 collided with the
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  steamship of Anyas and sank in less than a minute.
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  When the collision occurred, Brow was in the torpedo room.
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  Upon reaching the Hatch, he saw that the boat was rapidly
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  sinking instead of opening. Instead of jumping overboard to
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  save his own life, he returned to the torpedo room to the
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  rescue of a shipmate who he knew was trapped in the boat, closing
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  the torpedo room hatch on himself, Brow and Brown remain
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  trapped in this compartment until rescued by the salvage
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  party 31 hours later. Saved man's life.
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  That is the ultimate definition of what duty and service to your
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  fellow man is. This results in a Medal of Honor
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  for him, which to this day, he is the only enlisted submariner
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  to ever earn the Medal of Honor. There have been others that have
• 23:39
  done so, but all of them were commanding officers and officers
• 23:43
  aboard submarines during the Second World War.
• 23:46
  It's an amazing story and it's a story that many people are not
• 23:52
  all that familiar with. They don't really know about
• 23:55
  even in the submarine community, which is why it's a great thing
• 23:59
  that a new book has come out called the Silent Services First
• 24:03
  Hero by a great guy by the name of Ryan Walker, who is a
• 24:06
  historian out of Connecticut who became very fascinated with this
• 24:11
  story and wrote the book that's now available.
• 24:14
  You can get it online. And he tells you in this, this
• 24:19
  whole story, much more detailed than I've been able.
• 24:22
  You know, I got 30 minutes here to tell you this whole story.
• 24:24
  He has an entire book, and it's a it's an incredible tale of
• 24:30
  just an average guy who for a moment becomes a hero and then
• 24:36
  spends the rest of his life as a sailor.
• 24:40
  He just goes back to doing what he was doing before in the
• 24:43
  submarine fleet, and he will eventually pass away of heart
• 24:46
  failure two days before Pearl Harbor in 1941, almost
• 24:52
  completely forgotten. And yet here he was, this this
• 24:57
  man who saved another man's life.
• 25:00
  And we don't know what happened to Brown or his family, but I
• 25:04
  guarantee you somewhere there's someone who's alive today
• 25:08
  because Henry Brow went back and saved Larry Brown.
• 25:12
  And if he hadn't done that, that person, whoever they are,
• 25:17
  wouldn't exist today. And that's what the rabbi's
• 25:19
  teach us. He who saves a life, it's as if
• 25:24
  he saves the world. We pick it up in 60 seconds.
• 25:28
  You want it, and now's the time. 321-768-1240 Dave Bowman with us
• 25:35
  bringing, as Dave does, history. Dave, you say there is a a
• 25:38
  petition to name a submarine after Henry Brooke.
• 25:42
  As the as the United States Navy is building the Virginia class
• 25:46
  submarines, there is a petition that has been making the the
• 25:51
  rounds to try and convince the Navy Secretary Del Toro to name
• 25:58
  one of the new submarines after Henry Brock.
• 26:00
  It's past time to do that. And if you go to my web page
• 26:04
  today, there will be a link to that petition.
• 26:06
  You can sign it. Does it mean anything?
• 26:10
  I don't know. But if we get enough people to
• 26:11
  say to the Navy, you know what this is, this is important, we
• 26:16
  need to do that. You'll also find a link to the
• 26:18
  book The Silent Services First Hero by Ryan Walker.
• 26:22
  And I had the opportunity to sit down with Ryan about a month
• 26:26
  ago, I guess, a month and a half ago, I guess.
• 26:28
  And we did almost an hour telling the story in much more
• 26:32
  detail than we've been able to today.
• 26:33
  And I'll link that up as well. And I would this makes a great
• 26:37
  Christmas gift, Hanukkah gift. It's a, it's a, it's a pretty
• 26:41
  good book. So you'll want to get that very
• 26:43
  well researched. Ryan is a fantastic researcher.
• 26:46
  So give it a shot and would love to he'd love for you to buy that
• 26:51
  book. I would love for you to buy that
• 26:52
  book. I would love for you to sign the
• 26:53
  petition to name a submarine for Henry Brown.
• 26:56
  Let's. Get to the phones, line one
• 26:59
  you're up on Bill Mclaugh, good morning.
• 27:02
  OK, Bill, you probably saw the text, but I wonder if Dave is
• 27:05
  aware that he quoted the Bible in describing the darkness in
• 27:10
  the submarine while the rescue was being affected.
• 27:14
  He said a darkness that could be felt and in Exodus 10/21 that is
• 27:20
  the description of the darkness and the plagues upon Egypt when
• 27:24
  Moses was contending with Pharaoh.
• 27:27
  Interesting, David, did you hear it?
• 27:31
  Yeah, I'm aware of that story. I'm aware of that.
• 27:33
  I also described it as Stygian, which comes out of the Greek
• 27:36
  myths so. Oh, very, very good.
• 27:39
  Nonetheless, I I cannot imagine that circumstance.
• 27:43
  I'm I'm not claustrophobic and I know there are folks who I've
• 27:48
  been scuba diving once in my life.
• 27:49
  Dave and my wife went down for just a brief minute and she was
• 27:54
  done. She was claustrophobic.
• 27:55
  She thought her whole world was inside that mask.
• 27:58
  I am not that way. Darkness would compound any such
• 28:01
  feeling you had, though that would be difficult.
• 28:04
  In in a way, and I know this sounds like a strange thing to
• 28:07
  say, but in a way I'm kind of blessed with that because I'm
• 28:11
  basically legally blind. Not quite, but almost there.
• 28:16
  So for me, you know, if I take my glasses off, I can't see
• 28:20
  anything anyway. So from that aspect of I've I've
• 28:24
  always learned to feel my way around things and to sense my
• 28:27
  way around things. And even on the submarine when
• 28:29
  lights would go out, I didn't have a whole lot of problems.
• 28:33
  But I'll tell you what it's it's a creepy feeling when the
• 28:39
  submarine isn't working right. It's I've been there.
• 28:43
  It, it's a strange feeling. I haven't been on one that sunk.
• 28:47
  I haven't been on one that was flooding, but it, I have been on
• 28:50
  one that was on fire and it is a very creepy feeling.
• 28:53
  It is it, it? And at the moment, you know, you
• 28:57
  talk about this, this reaction, what I remember most of that the
• 29:02
  moment is not thinking about it at all, reacting the way we were
• 29:07
  trained to react. And it wasn't until a couple of
• 29:10
  days later that I started realizing crap, you know, that
• 29:15
  was close. That was, you know, maybe, maybe
• 29:21
  that was the moment that I shouldn't be here from.
• 29:24
  It was. It was really weird.
• 29:27
  Well, and in circumstance after circumstance, whether it's law
• 29:32
  enforcement and training for armed confrontation or the
• 29:36
  drills that you guys would run on those submarines time after
• 29:40
  time after time to the point you react the way you're trained and
• 29:45
  you react in that situation, the way you've been allowed to
• 29:47
  train. If you were allowed to slack off
• 29:49
  during training, you're going to slack off in that situation
• 29:52
  because that's your normal reaction to that kind of
• 29:55
  situation. And the better the training, the
• 29:57
  more the training, the more ready you are to take it on, I
• 30:00
  guess. That's, you know, I, I, I had
• 30:02
  the opportunity to meet some, I call them kids who are currently
• 30:07
  on Michigan today who weren't born when I left the boat.
• 30:12
  And one of them asked me if I had any advice for them.
• 30:16
  And that's what I said. Train like it's the real thing
• 30:19
  and learn your damage control because it will save your life.
• 30:21
  It saved mine. So these are things that become
• 30:27
  ingrained in dust. And you know, you can you can
• 30:31
  make the argument that browse reaction was training, but man,
• 30:37
  what a decision to be made. And it's, you know, it's a
• 30:39
  similar decision. Somebody has to close that hatch
• 30:41
  to try to save a life or try to save a ship.
• 30:44
  It's not all that different from the Fitzgerald when she got
• 30:47
  rammed. Somebody had to close that door
• 30:49
  knowing that there were 11 guys behind it.
• 30:53
  Those decisions are not easy to make.
• 30:55
  And the stories should be told. And that's why Ryan has told the
• 30:58
  story and the Silent Services First Hero, which I would
• 31:01
  encourage you to order. And please sign the petition to
• 31:05
  name a submarine for Henry Brough.
• 31:08
  How tough in the circumstance that he was facing and, and, and
• 31:11
  maybe Ryan was able to give you a description of this when you
• 31:15
  talk to him. Dave, to get that door shut and
• 31:19
  sealed. So they were in a watertight
• 31:21
  compartment. That and and airtight too,
• 31:23
  apparently. You know, I don't recall that
• 31:24
  specific discussion. I don't think it would be that
• 31:26
  difficult. Those watertight doors are
• 31:28
  pretty, pretty easy to close as long as there's not water
• 31:32
  pouring through them. And it depends on which way
• 31:34
  you're going, you know, if you're up, down, whichever with
• 31:39
  gravity. But I've, I've never seen
• 31:41
  personally a problem with closing those doors.
• 31:43
  I've heard of it being a problem, but I've personally
• 31:46
  never seen that all. Right, very good.
• 31:49
  Line 1, I got 30 seconds for you.
• 31:51
  Good morning, Go. On Bill, Ed and Melbourne.
• 31:54
  Make it quick, Ed. Dave, as far as saving somebody,
• 32:01
  doing stuff like he did, I think you're actually born with that.
• 32:05
  That's in your DNA. You hear the comment.
• 32:09
  I mean it's possible I. Yeah.
• 32:13
  I think it's more training, but I think it's training but.
• 32:16
  I would agree. I think it is the training
• 32:18
  because if you don't have the training, you're not sure how to
• 32:21
  react. You may want to react, but I
• 32:22
  don't think you have any any clue about what you're doing
• 32:25
  without it. Always an intriguing story with
• 32:28
  Dave does history. Thank you, my friend.
• 32:30
  Links for you at billmc.com on today's show page entitled
• 32:33
  Balancing Act. And Dave, we'll see you next
• 32:37
  week. We're talking elections next
• 32:38
  week because you're here on Election Day.
• 32:40
  Yeah. It'll be great.
• 32:43
  Check out more. Stories from
• 32:45
  history@davedoeshistory.org.