Latest / CattleUSA Daily / 199: Trump’s DOJ Comments and the Big Four Packers with John Campbell

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199: Trump’s DOJ Comments and the Big Four Packers with John Campbell · CattleUSA Daily

• 0:00
  Happy Friday. In today's episode with John
• 0:02
  Campbell, we are chatting all things live cattle market.
• 0:05
  What is happening in the world of the cattle industry right
• 0:07
  now? What is at play and what is
• 0:10
  fluctuating and pushing this market right now.
• 0:12
  And we are also diving head first into Trump's comments on
• 0:17
  the DOJ and potential DOJ investigation into the
• 0:21
  meatpacking industry and the big four and what that looks like.
• 0:25
  John's thoughts, comments, concerns, and just kind of
• 0:29
  outlook on what that could potentially look like as well.
• 0:32
  Let's go ahead and jump into this episode with John.
• 0:34
  But before we do, if you are watching on YouTube, if you
• 0:36
  could take a second to make sure you're subscribed to our channel
• 0:39
  and like this episode. And if you are listening on any
• 0:41
  of our podcast platforms, make sure you're following on that
• 0:44
  platform. Take a second to go right and
• 0:46
  review this podcast and share it with a friend as well.
• 0:48
  Thank you for listening to another episode and let's hear
• 0:50
  from John. Welcome to the Cattle USA Daily
• 0:56
  podcast, your go to source for the latest livestock markets,
• 1:00
  industry insights and the updates shaping agriculture
• 1:03
  today. I'm your host, Lauren Moylan, a
• 1:05
  passionate advocate for agriculture here to keep you
• 1:08
  informed and connected. Now let's dive into today's
• 1:11
  episode. John, welcome back to another
• 1:20
  podcast. How is life in Lahana, Colorado
• 1:25
  treating you? This week and it is we just
• 1:27
  talked about it and I love how you can just go put your game
• 1:31
  face on go from throwing fast balls and dunking and I just
• 1:36
  well, John, how are things that love in Colorado?
• 1:41
  I know you better. You do you do know me better.
• 1:44
  It is. It is kind of funny when I go
• 1:46
  from my like, like we're chit chatting before, right?
• 1:49
  I hit record and then it's like I even did the whole like hand
• 1:52
  thing before I hit record of like.
• 1:56
  You got it. The face is on.
• 1:58
  The face is on. Let's go.
• 1:59
  Jeez, I love it. I love it you.
• 2:01
  You do know me too well, John, at this point, which is amazing
• 2:05
  and scary at the same time. But you know, here we are.
• 2:09
  Right, If you're scared of me, you've got you've got problems
• 2:13
  that you, you know, maybe you should seek professional help.
• 2:16
  I mean, you're not wrong, but you know, moving on, let's let's
• 2:21
  talk about life in the hot up. OK, all right, all right, all
• 2:25
  right. We're going to get in trouble
• 2:26
  here. Let's say 51142 cattle this
• 2:31
  week. I thought the you know, the
• 2:34
  little light steered calves were steady.
• 2:36
  We happened to hit the right day.
• 2:38
  It's a shame that we talked this way, but Monday was a limit up
• 2:42
  day because we decided to open the government up.
• 2:45
  Renewed optimism. Everybody's fired up.
• 2:48
  Those that thought the world would come to an end because of
• 2:51
  Trump's announcement may be right, but they were wrong on
• 2:56
  Monday as the futures were up the limit and you know,
• 2:59
  translated into our like Cavs 5 and a quarter up to 610.
• 3:05
  I thought our heavy steer cabs probably as much as five higher
• 3:10
  or 20 up to five O 7 a kind of a rundown on the steer side of
• 3:15
  things. Here's some little 3 weight
• 3:17
  stairs at San A four and a quarter weight stairs at 5:30.
• 3:20
  We had some 5 weight stairs at fun.
• 3:23
  You know, kind of sounding like a old times 6 weight steers up
• 3:27
  to 420 on the heifer side of things here in La Hata.
• 3:31
  I called him 5 to 10, five to Was that that dog?
• 3:35
  5 to 10 higher 450. I thought you sold him 4:50 to
• 3:39
  up to $5. Heavy heifer cabs 5 to 10,
• 3:43
  higher 385 up to 440. We had some little heifers
• 3:48
  weighed right at 3. Brought 530 a pound, pardon me,
• 3:51
  330 LB. Black heifers up to 497 seven,
• 3:56
  we had some 4 weight efforts here in a lot at 482 and our
• 4:01
  best 5 weight efforts back up north of $4.00 actually at 412.
• 4:07
  The Stocker heifers 340 to 388, again, we're talking about a 550
• 4:15
  sixty 70 LB heifer. We had some 6 weights, pretty
• 4:19
  good activity again this week on these replacement quality
• 4:23
  heifers. Like I said, I had some 6 weight
• 4:26
  efforts up to 382. You get in the steer side of
• 4:30
  things, they were steady to five better.
• 4:33
  These 550 to 6 weight cattle and these cattle are going back out.
• 4:38
  They're not, they're not going to the feed yard, but most of
• 4:42
  the high quality better end them.
• 4:44
  But bring 4 to 435 and those six and seven weight cattle 360 to
• 4:53
  four O 5. I think we had some 590 LB
• 4:56
  cattle bring four O 9. So Monday here, everything in
• 5:01
  great shape. It is crazy how up and down,
• 5:05
  sideways, upside down, hanging upside down from a tree monkey
• 5:10
  barn to the next one, this market is right now like it is
• 5:14
  all over the place and wow, crazy, right?
• 5:19
  Like. I'm it.
• 5:20
  I'm glad we're up, I'm glad we're up, I'm glad it's a good
• 5:24
  week, but boy oh boy, we've been getting whiplash over here left
• 5:28
  and fricking right. Especially since we talked last
• 5:30
  week, like in the week before that and boy oh boy hold on
• 5:34
  tight cuz this is a roller coaster.
• 5:36
  Yeah, it is nobody. There is a lot of uncertainty in
• 5:41
  the market and you can hear that from about anybody.
• 5:44
  The markets do not like uncertainty.
• 5:47
  They don't like things holding back in the shadows that can
• 5:51
  jump out at any time, and so they act accordingly, and that's
• 5:56
  with caution. Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:59
  What's what's pushing these markets right now, I'm kind of
• 6:02
  glad that some comments got released maybe after the markets
• 6:07
  closed on Friday last week rather than while markets were
• 6:11
  still open so that people had the weekend to marinate on that
• 6:15
  a little bit before making any drastic decisions and all of
• 6:19
  those things. But kind of how, what are your
• 6:20
  thoughts on current events and how those are affecting the
• 6:23
  markets and what we're seeing as far as all of that jazz goes
• 6:26
  today? John?
• 6:27
  Well, you know what's what's driving the market?
• 6:29
  I, I, I really think that reality is that buyers,
• 6:36
  producers, people that are in the business, they know that
• 6:40
  numbers are short and you know, live cattle we are not going to
• 6:44
  get from Brazil, Argentina and it if we do get the Mexican
• 6:49
  cattle, you know, you're talking what would net net an increase
• 6:54
  say in our calf crop by 2%. You know that the, the rumor is
• 6:59
  way worse than the fact will ever be once the cattle start
• 7:03
  coming. But we're at the mercy of the
• 7:05
  rumor of the futures market that talk like so many things way
• 7:09
  worse than and the actual facts end up to be.
• 7:12
  But so producers know we're short and, you know, they need
• 7:16
  to start gathering some stock up and, you know, get some calves,
• 7:21
  surround themselves with stock or cattle, get ready to get
• 7:25
  started getting cattle for grass.
• 7:27
  And that's that's what they do. So they've either got to let
• 7:31
  weeds grow up in the pan or lease their pastures out or do
• 7:35
  something or else they've got to get active and start
• 7:38
  participating. And that's the beautiful thing
• 7:41
  thing about our industry. We we've got enough players that
• 7:45
  think, I don't know what the hell the markets going to do,
• 7:48
  but I do know this is my livelihood and I got to get
• 7:52
  signed up and right or wrong, I got to get the hell going.
• 7:55
  So and, and you know, you see that I, I watched Pratt sale a
• 8:01
  little bit today and you know, of course the futures are down
• 8:04
  $5 the day they were down $4.00 yesterday.
• 8:07
  But I was encouraged at a competitive market.
• 8:11
  You know, here's they sold some 4540 weight steers here an hour
• 8:15
  ago for 429, had some 6 weight cattle AT4257 weight calves off
• 8:22
  the cow at 3:49. There's nothing cheaper about
• 8:26
  that. And, and I just think there's a,
• 8:29
  a persuasion that has said to hell with the commodities
• 8:33
  market, to hell with the government.
• 8:35
  I, I got to get hooked up and, and get going.
• 8:38
  And there's enough of them in a competitive price discovery
• 8:43
  that, you know, that's beautiful thing about it.
• 8:47
  And and you know, I, I think they're going to call their
• 8:50
  market steady to higher. So that's that's kind of what
• 8:55
  what I see going. Yeah, definitely.
• 8:57
  I mean, it goes back to some market fundamentals that we do
• 9:02
  still have demand for product. We do still have to keep the
• 9:06
  train moving and these cattle moving throughout the industry.
• 9:10
  And we have those people like you were saying, I love those
• 9:12
  comments and that kind of viewpoint of like we have these
• 9:15
  people that have like they got to run their business.
• 9:17
  Their business is buying cattle. They've got to keep buying
• 9:20
  cattle, they've got to keep the train moving and these cattle
• 9:23
  along the line. And so that is still going to
• 9:26
  push our market. That is still going to help with
• 9:29
  some market corrections, some different things that are
• 9:31
  happening. The commodities market plays
• 9:33
  such a massive role on the live cattle market.
• 9:36
  But at the end of the day, we still got to buy and sell
• 9:39
  cattle. And so it's not just looking at
• 9:43
  the board and what is happening there, but it's encouraging to
• 9:47
  see that in the live market, in these sale barns, we're still
• 9:51
  seeing good solid movement of cattle and that people aren't
• 9:56
  clutching their pearls too crazy left and right.
• 9:59
  And the nature of our business, we are so fortunate in that the
• 10:03
  composition of the people that we've got, we've got enough
• 10:08
  independently financed, independently minded people that
• 10:13
  grow their own feed, that have their own land that you know
• 10:17
  that they're not stupid, They're watching the markets and watch
• 10:21
  what goes on. But they are in control of their
• 10:24
  own destiny rather than to be dictated to by a higher force
• 10:30
  that's going to say you will do this and you will comply.
• 10:33
  And that's the beautiful thing about independent producers.
• 10:38
  You know, they get up every morning and think and finance
• 10:42
  themselves. And boy, the higher up the chain
• 10:45
  you get, the harder those guys are to find.
• 10:48
  And we are. And I'll expand on that in a
• 10:50
  minute, But we're so blessed at the grassroots level that that's
• 10:55
  the kind of people that we're made-up of.
• 10:58
  Absolutely, absolutely. Like you look at the majority of
• 11:01
  our industry and the majority of our industry is represented by
• 11:04
  those individuals that are described just how you described
• 11:09
  them, John. And it is such a blessing to be
• 11:12
  a part of an industry that is still so focused on that small
• 11:16
  producer and the importance of them.
• 11:18
  Because if we didn't have the small to mid sized producers, we
• 11:21
  wouldn't have an industry. And I'm so grateful that we
• 11:24
  still have an industry that is able to support that and support
• 11:27
  those family operations as well, even though we're seeing a lot
• 11:30
  of that vertical integration and a lot of that stuff that we've
• 11:33
  been talking about for the past few weeks that makes it a little
• 11:36
  difficult at times, right? Right, right.
• 11:38
  No, exactly. And it's kind of old news by
• 11:42
  now. But, you know, short of really
• 11:45
  giving us an apology, I, I think Trump's statements last Friday
• 11:51
  may have been better than an apology.
• 11:53
  I, I mean, I don't think anybody could have scripted a statement
• 11:57
  any more to the point than Trump did last Friday asking the
• 12:02
  Department of Justice to investigate the, the meat
• 12:05
  companies, you know, stating that they're, they're the ones
• 12:08
  that are driving up the price of beef through illicit collusion,
• 12:12
  to use his words, price fixing, price manipulation.
• 12:16
  You know, he just said we will always protect our American
• 12:19
  ranchers and stating that the rancher is being blamed for what
• 12:24
  is really being done by foreign owned Packers for artificially
• 12:30
  inflating prices. And I, I thought that was, you
• 12:33
  know, that was, that was pretty refreshing to hear it and
• 12:36
  stating the truth. They're jeopardizing our
• 12:38
  nation's food supply. And he went on to say that, you
• 12:43
  know, action must be taken immediately to combat illegal
• 12:47
  monopolies and ensure that these corporations are not criminally
• 12:54
  profiting from the at the expense of the American people.
• 12:59
  And I just I thought it was refreshing had to finally get a
• 13:03
  president and the USDA that acknowledges what the hell is
• 13:09
  really going on, not just say, well, we're going to look into
• 13:11
  it, but PowerPoint presentation as to this is a result of this
• 13:16
  as a result of this is this. And I guess now the ultimate
• 13:20
  test is we'll we'll see how the Department of Justice head
• 13:24
  Bondi, how their team holds up against several bus loads of
• 13:30
  lawyers hired by the meat packing industry.
• 13:34
  Usually these kind of turn into years of litigation ending with
• 13:39
  the just a hand slap and and 50 to $200 million fine in which
• 13:46
  the Packers allowed to deny any wrongdoing, pay the fine.
• 13:51
  And then we just go back to business as usual.
• 13:55
  They they've done this so often, Lauren, and so many times that
• 14:00
  it even has its own name now and it's called pay to play.
• 14:04
  Here's kind of a refresher course and I hate rehashing
• 14:08
  that. But in light of what's going on
• 14:11
  in in in 2022, ABS agreed to a 52 and a half million dollar
• 14:18
  suit with the grocery stores and and the wholesalers for unfair
• 14:22
  pricing. McDonald's in 24 filed suit
• 14:26
  against the Packers for price fixing schemes and it's been
• 14:31
  going on for the last 11 years. Tyson paid 85,000,000 for a pork
• 14:37
  price fixing back in October of this year.
• 14:41
  JBS and the same thing paid a $20 million fine just this year.
• 14:46
  2025 JBS 83 and a half million for beef price fixing.
• 14:52
  Tyson 55,000,000 for beef price fixing.
• 14:56
  Cargill 32 and a half million for price beef price fixing and
• 15:01
  National is still ass deep involved in price fixing scandal
• 15:07
  in litigation. And you know, I don't know if
• 15:13
  you had to get hit in the head with a brick, but Trump says
• 15:16
  something smells fishy. It smells like a gut wagon to
• 15:20
  me. Hell, any third grade kid could
• 15:23
  read into that deal and you know they sound like really big
• 15:28
  numbers and you hear this 52,000,083 million.
• 15:33
  But you know, here is the reality of the pay to play
• 15:36
  numbers in 2022, last time I looked, JBS has earned in that
• 15:44
  year 4.4 billion net net profit. They paid 72.5 million in
• 15:53
  settlement claims a number of them that's 2% of their profit.
• 15:59
  Tyson made 4 billion that's with AB 4 billion in 22 and they paid
• 16:07
  135 million. So they jumped right up cost
• 16:10
  them 3% of what what they made. And you, you talk about
• 16:16
  collusion, you know, it is it just a coincidence that when the
• 16:22
  Packers bid one of them, all four of them bid exactly the
• 16:28
  same price every week? I mean, you don't see some at
• 16:32
  325, some at 3:20 and and some at 3:18.
• 16:37
  Every one of them bids exactly the same price.
• 16:40
  And there's a name for that too. It's called parallel pricing.
• 16:44
  And you don't think that isn't a non competitive practice?
• 16:49
  It's no wonder they're being sued.
• 16:51
  I, I, I mean, it's rode all over their face.
• 16:53
  And then, you know, they used that price that they have all
• 16:57
  agreed on and had had collusion on to set that price.
• 17:02
  You know that they bid that on 10% of the weekly volume.
• 17:07
  And that's the formula price that establishes the price for
• 17:11
  the other 90%. And you know these AMA which
• 17:15
  those that you don't know is it that don't know it are an
• 17:18
  alternative marketing agreement. And they are, when you enter
• 17:23
  into one of those, you are entering into an exclusive deal
• 17:28
  with 1 Packer and you commit 100% of your inventory to 1
• 17:34
  Packer and then you give him advance knowledge of the total
• 17:40
  supply available. That I'm not saying they're all
• 17:43
  wrote that way, but the biggest percentage of them, any of the
• 17:46
  ones I've ever seen or deal with, that's exactly what they
• 17:49
  do. You bet.
• 17:50
  Here's the here's what we're going to do, but you will commit
• 17:54
  100% of your inventory to us. Well, hell, that that's not a
• 17:58
  market. The Packer can plan accordingly.
• 18:01
  Then whenever they're a little short, why they fill in with
• 18:05
  their own cattle that they have on feed can manipulate the price
• 18:08
  with what's left and that when cattle are in really short
• 18:12
  supply, Lauren, you know that that works pretty good as we are
• 18:17
  now and you can get your cattle killed and have independent
• 18:22
  alternative marketing deal and, and there's no problem selling
• 18:25
  them. But you know, when the supply
• 18:28
  increases and we've been through that, the independents are beat
• 18:32
  like a stepchild. You know, the, the Packer either
• 18:36
  refuses to show up or, or they'll draw you out on delivery
• 18:41
  or else they'll, they'll not bid at all on any of the AMA non
• 18:46
  committed cattle. You, you can't get a bid.
• 18:48
  I guarantee you it, it happens. I've seen it, I've had it done
• 18:52
  to me. And you ask any cattle feeder
• 18:55
  feeder that deals with these monopolies and went through the
• 18:58
  COVID, went through the Holcomb fire and have been forced into
• 19:03
  becoming a pass through feed yard.
• 19:06
  And a pass through feed yard is 1 in which you buy the cattle.
• 19:11
  But the day you buy them, they are already committed to 1
• 19:15
  Packer. You have no leverage.
• 19:17
  You have no way of even testing the market with anybody else.
• 19:21
  There is no market the day you buy them, you're just a pass
• 19:25
  through feed yard. The Packer already owns you
• 19:28
  heart and soul because you have committed to him at the end or
• 19:32
  at harvest time. You know, you ask these guys
• 19:36
  that they're in these pass through feed yards if they wish
• 19:39
  they had other options and I have and the answer is yes.
• 19:45
  And they are trapped like a Beaver.
• 19:47
  Like I said it in short supply, it's a quick fix.
• 19:50
  What am I going to do? What am I going to do?
• 19:52
  And it looks great and you have your ass covered for a while.
• 19:56
  I know I got a place to sell them.
• 19:58
  Now I don't have to set out here and wonder who is going to show
• 20:01
  up to buy them. I'm committed.
• 20:03
  And like I said, on the short term that sounds pretty good.
• 20:07
  But look what's happening when they are the only game in town.
• 20:13
  And the rules of the AMA game start changing and believe me,
• 20:18
  it's not in your favor. The specs get tougher, the
• 20:21
  percentages start changing, and it's all in the hands of the guy
• 20:26
  that's setting the price because he's the only game in town.
• 20:30
  You know, I, I, I call it a pretty good example is getting
• 20:34
  John Deere. And you know, you sign up with
• 20:37
  Big Green and they control all the parts.
• 20:40
  You can't get your John Deere tractor fixed without buying
• 20:44
  parts from them. And then they're the only ones
• 20:47
  that can work on them. And after that they can charge
• 20:50
  whatever the hell they want, but also they can dictate policy and
• 20:55
  it it's happening with them right in front of our eyes.
• 20:58
  An example would be we no longer bill we, we don't have a billing
• 21:02
  process. And as a personal experience, I,
• 21:06
  I've dealt with John Deere and I'm not a farmer, but I, I, I
• 21:11
  dealt with them. I have a tractor, they service
• 21:13
  stuff and I probably worked with them and they've had multiple
• 21:17
  owners, but it's still being under John Deere for as, as long
• 21:20
  as I've been here. Well, I take my wife's lawn
• 21:22
  mower in and now this is important and I have a $300 belt
• 21:28
  go on this. And incidentally, this was the
• 21:30
  4th time that I had it replaced within a matter of years before
• 21:34
  we find out what the problem is. He'll let you put a new belt on
• 21:37
  and burn it up every time. But now they're the only game in
• 21:41
  town. You must prepaid before you can
• 21:45
  pick your lawnmower up. And no one is on site on
• 21:49
  Saturday. There's a guy there, but he, he,
• 21:52
  he's not qualified to take the check, but he's got the key to
• 21:55
  the gate. So the guy call, I said I want
• 21:58
  to pick up my lawnmower. Well, can you give me a credit
• 22:04
  card number? And you have to put your
• 22:06
  lawnmower bell on the credit card because the guy with the
• 22:10
  key to the gate, he can let you out, but he sure as hell can't
• 22:13
  take your money. And they have every right to do
• 22:17
  it, that that's their model. But I can guarantee you this
• 22:20
  competition would not only make the belt a hell of a lot
• 22:23
  cheaper, improve the service and that would stop all the damn
• 22:28
  customer abuse that's going on. And that's exactly what we're
• 22:31
  seeing in the packing industry. The, you know, the, the Fed
• 22:36
  cattle market system collapsed the day the first AMA was agreed
• 22:42
  upon. Once they signed up for an
• 22:45
  alternative marketing program and we got rid of the
• 22:49
  competition. That guy should be shot, burned,
• 22:54
  tarred, feathered and then buried because that started the
• 22:58
  ball rolling. And you know, I often times
• 23:01
  think we are so fortunate in the auction market business not to
• 23:06
  depend on these AM as and these BIG4 monopolies in order to do
• 23:12
  business. Competition keeps our business
• 23:16
  healthy. And you know, I, I can name
• 23:19
  numerous times when as recent as the last month when one of these
• 23:24
  BIG4 players, they just choose not to show up.
• 23:28
  They'd be gone for a month and pull completely out of the
• 23:31
  market. But we have enough independent
• 23:35
  producers as we talked about earlier, and, and they're vast
• 23:39
  in numbers and they fill the void.
• 23:41
  And I mean, do it in a hurry. And the big boys, they're not
• 23:46
  we, we don't even miss that. They're not here.
• 23:48
  And that's a beautiful thing about this level of the business
• 23:52
  that we're in. But how'd you like to have your
• 23:55
  feed lot full of ripe tomatoes and they don't show up?
• 23:59
  I guarantee you, and I've been there, you will experience a
• 24:03
  full rectal prolapse and all of the old reliable first aid
• 24:09
  stations have been shut down because you sold them out.
• 24:14
  There no place else to go to get fixed and you are in a world of
• 24:17
  shit. So you better pray that you're
• 24:20
  on a real good first name basis with the one you're sleeping
• 24:25
  with and be spooned up really tight with them, because I
• 24:29
  remember they'll have no problem finding another lover beside
• 24:34
  you. And that prenuptial AMA
• 24:37
  agreement that you signed, by design, will take years in the
• 24:42
  courtroom to battle it out to prove that you were right.
• 24:46
  And in the end, you lose the house, the car, the kids.
• 24:50
  But you will be remembered forever for the free all you can
• 24:55
  eat BBQ. What?
• 24:57
  Are your thoughts on what's going to come out of this?
• 25:00
  Is anything actually going to change?
• 25:03
  You know, I, I am encouraged because of the language, but
• 25:07
  that's all it is, is talk. Trump did the same thing, I
• 25:11
  believe in 20. But I think he's surrounded by a
• 25:15
  team that if we've got a shot, Lauren, this is going to be our
• 25:18
  shot. And it's no longer Purdue or are
• 25:22
  these big corporate guys, I think more boots on the ground
• 25:26
  people. I don't know much about Bondi,
• 25:28
  but I like Rowland's and she gets it and I know she gets it.
• 25:32
  And she understands what the hell is happening now.
• 25:36
  Whether you know, you can gather enough evidence and now you know
• 25:41
  they're going to say, well, hell, there's no cattle out
• 25:43
  there, there's no product out there.
• 25:44
  And they're going to cry the Blues, but they need to go back
• 25:48
  to COVID. They need to go back to the
• 25:50
  Holcomb fire that burned a box plant.
• 25:54
  And they were saying, oh, we're out of product, We're out of
• 25:56
  product. And the numbers will show you
• 25:58
  slaughter during that period actually increased while there
• 26:03
  was a huge price gouging going on not only to the feed yard
• 26:08
  guys selling them, but to the consumer as well.
• 26:13
  And look to those for pretty hard facts.
• 26:15
  But so to answer your question, I'm optimistic.
• 26:19
  I think we've got new, new players in the mix.
• 26:21
  But you know, like I said, when you got a bus load of those
• 26:25
  attorneys and you're talking billions and billions of dollars
• 26:30
  every time in history up until now, they have been able to, as
• 26:36
  I said, pay to play and slap my hands.
• 26:40
  And here's 100 million and I'll see you the next time you sue my
• 26:44
  ass for what I blatantly am doing wrong.
• 26:48
  And that that's been the reality of it.
• 26:51
  But it was acknowledged in such a way and with such language
• 26:56
  that I am very hopeful we get something done.
• 26:59
  Yeah. So what do you think is going to
• 27:02
  change about it? So it's like we're seeing all of
• 27:04
  these things that are blatantly wrong that we're not having an
• 27:08
  actual fair market competition. We're seeing the like, hey,
• 27:12
  you're going to set the price at 3:20, we're all setting the
• 27:15
  price at 3:20 situation. We're seeing a bunch of this
• 27:18
  stuff that is blatantly wrong. So what do you think is going to
• 27:21
  change? Like what do you think they're
• 27:22
  going to make them do? Are they going to make them like
• 27:24
  hey cut that out right now or are we going to see some forced
• 27:28
  purchasing of plants by independent like independent
• 27:32
  plants? Are we going to see some split?
• 27:34
  Like what do you think is going to come out of this?
• 27:37
  Is this going to be like a hey, here are your rules, y'all got
• 27:40
  to start following these. These are your stipulations,
• 27:43
  your regulations, all of that jazz or what?
• 27:46
  What do you think is going to come out of this?
• 27:47
  Obviously it again, it's going to be one of those situations
• 27:49
  that we're going to be stuck in this for years.
• 27:52
  Like this is not an overnight thing.
• 27:54
  We're not even probably going to see anything come out of this in
• 27:57
  2026. Like we're we're talking
• 27:59
  20272028 before we probably start seeing things because the
• 28:02
  court system, you're going to be stuck in a lot of things for a
• 28:05
  really long time. But what are your thoughts on, I
• 28:08
  mean what are your thoughts on what could potentially happen or
• 28:11
  even just ideal scenario situation of what you would like
• 28:14
  to? See, you know, I, I, I don't
• 28:16
  know what the ideal scenario is, what I would think would happen
• 28:21
  and, and the way to progress with it is possibly you break it
• 28:26
  down into sections and deal with it one, one at a time, a, a, a
• 28:31
  problem one at a time. And hopefully accumulation of
• 28:35
  eliminating these barriers along the way will, will bring about a
• 28:41
  hole in, in, in the change of, of the industry.
• 28:45
  But to the people that say Jesus gravity, I don't know why that
• 28:49
  we're selling catalogs. Ivor's hold in our life.
• 28:51
  Why, why would you be going after him now?
• 28:53
  Well, if not now, when you know, hell, you got to wait to get
• 28:59
  your head kicked in again in in order to do something.
• 29:03
  If anything, maybe when you got a little money made is is the
• 29:08
  time to do it rather than when you're flat on your back broke
• 29:12
  and you don't have an option. But the how to go about it.
• 29:16
  I think there's a number of things that that need to be
• 29:19
  addressed. And I think, OK, let's go into
• 29:22
  price fixing and let's deal with that and what has happened.
• 29:26
  Let's let's talk about collusion rather than a, you know, just a
• 29:31
  dart board deal. Let's go, Adam, on every facet.
• 29:35
  Maybe it needs to be broke down in sections.
• 29:37
  And we're going to talk about this problem and we're going to
• 29:40
  eliminate this problem. And once it's eliminated to our
• 29:44
  satisfaction that that falls back within the realm of what is
• 29:49
  legal and what is not legal, then we go on to the next
• 29:53
  segment. And now we're going to talk
• 29:54
  about, OK, you fix prices on this da, da, da, da, da.
• 29:58
  Let's settle that. Oh, yeah.
• 30:00
  Uh huh. And you guys don't call each
• 30:02
  other. And there's no cohesion going on
• 30:04
  between all the Packers and you guys forming this collusion of
• 30:09
  one of you bids 1:30, the next guy bids 130 and when the trades
• 30:13
  over, it's over for everybody. Christ's sakes, tell me they're
• 30:17
  not sharing information back and forth and let's deal with that.
• 30:21
  And how do we eliminate that? And it just goes on down the
• 30:25
  list, the list to the AM as to where, OK, you guys have already
• 30:30
  procured X amount of the volume. I think it's an excess of 90%.
• 30:35
  What do we do to open free enterprise up with this and and
• 30:38
  open open competition? You get rid of the AM as and
• 30:43
  attack from that front and let's get out the open outcry and
• 30:47
  maybe that means taking all the fat cattle back to the public
• 30:50
  auction for true price discovery.
• 30:53
  I'd be all in favor of that self-serving.
• 30:55
  You're damn right. But I think we got a system that
• 30:57
  works and we can prove our deal works again.
• 31:00
  You have to get more competition for what's out there and it's
• 31:04
  pretty hard for an independent Packer.
• 31:07
  And they said what we're going to fund in to bend the backers
• 31:09
  and get them into the deal. They have no competitive
• 31:13
  advantage. The supply is tied up.
• 31:16
  You can deal on the 10% of the dummies that are out there
• 31:20
  setting the price for the other 90%.
• 31:22
  And I call them dummy and tongue in cheek.
• 31:25
  They're the only people that are doing it right.
• 31:28
  But that's that's who you got, that's who you got to deal with.
• 31:32
  We're not making any more cows. So where's it going to come
• 31:35
  from? Everybody else is already tied
• 31:37
  up in a deal with the pack. You have to handle it situation
• 31:41
  by situation in my opinion and break something up before you
• 31:45
  can go on to the next equation. So that's just my gut reaction
• 31:51
  of how you deal with it rather than a shotgun approach and say,
• 31:55
  yeah, you guys are price fixing. Well, yeah, kind of.
• 31:58
  How much do we owe you this time?
• 32:00
  You know what bullshit. You know, you, you got to cut
• 32:03
  the head off the snake. But it has to be handled in such
• 32:07
  a way that I I don't know if our government's capable of doing
• 32:11
  it, but that's the only shot we got.
• 32:13
  If they don't do it, who they what the hell else does it?
• 32:16
  There's laws in place. And so let's go at them
• 32:19
  strategically and break it down into the true definition of the
• 32:23
  law. What are you doing wrong on this
• 32:26
  point? And then move to the next one.
• 32:28
  So I don't that's the answer but.
• 32:31
  I'm not. I'm not a lawyer, but that's how
• 32:34
  I'd attack it. Yeah, no, it's an interesting
• 32:37
  take though, because I mean, I feel like so many people are
• 32:40
  talking about this right now that my question to everyone is
• 32:43
  like, OK, then what needs done? Like what?
• 32:45
  What do we hope to see? What is the result of this like?
• 32:50
  And honestly, right now, it's just talk.
• 32:52
  Nothing actually has gone past talking about doing this right
• 32:56
  now. And we're not hoping that it
• 32:58
  does. I'm really hoping that we're
• 33:01
  sitting here and that this goes into an actual investigation and
• 33:05
  things get broken up and this process is going to be a long
• 33:08
  haul, but that something changes because we do need change in the
• 33:13
  industry. We need our Packers absolutely
• 33:16
  like we we were relying on them as part of the industry, but
• 33:20
  they also need to be abiding by certain rules and regulations to
• 33:24
  make it fair. And you know what, fair is not
• 33:28
  always equal. Equal is not always fair.
• 33:30
  And that is fine within our industry.
• 33:33
  But they got to abide by certain rules and regulations.
• 33:36
  And there are things that are blatantly wrong that we we can't
• 33:41
  sit by and idly just let sweep under the rug anymore.
• 33:46
  And so I'm really hopeful. That's what we've done because
• 33:48
  nobody has manned up and called them out on it or when they did,
• 33:54
  they said, well, maybe we're guilty mid, we're not, but I'll
• 33:59
  just sort more money out it and I'm making 4 1/2 billion this
• 34:03
  year. What the hell, 72 million?
• 34:05
  And then you pat yourself on the back said, ye black God, we got
• 34:09
  yes, Sir. And it's back to business as
• 34:12
  normal. And we have been in that cycle
• 34:14
  and in that cycle for the last 20 years.
• 34:18
  And somebody's got to somebody's got to break the pattern.
• 34:21
  And it's not up to me and it's not up to you.
• 34:24
  It's up to the people that enforce the laws that are in
• 34:27
  existence. So they've got a man up and take
• 34:30
  a hold and I, I don't, I don't know, you know, I still believe
• 34:34
  in, in your right to representation and you got your
• 34:37
  day in court. And I guess it comes down to
• 34:40
  who's got the best lawyers, which you don't care, but at
• 34:46
  least we maybe we got a shot. But yeah, I don't know.
• 34:49
  I, I, I'm not, I am optimistic. Like I said, repeat myself.
• 34:53
  But history would show us that more.
• 34:56
  We got a hell of a hill to climb.
• 34:58
  Yeah, we definitely do definitely do.
• 35:01
  Any other closing thoughts, comments or remarks that we need
• 35:03
  to hit on today, John, before we close out this podcast?
• 35:06
  I think that's that's it. And, and you know, maybe we're
• 35:12
  finding some ground and if we can somehow hold this fed cattle
• 35:16
  market and, and they're trying to buy them cheaper today, but
• 35:19
  again, the supply is just not out there and they're going to
• 35:23
  have to come to their milk and pay for these fat cattle, I
• 35:25
  think. But they're, they've got, like I
• 35:28
  said, they've got other ways around it and we'll just scale
• 35:32
  the kilt floor back to where, well, we don't have no place to
• 35:36
  process them. So we're just kind of kill them
• 35:38
  as they come and all of those things.
• 35:41
  You think, how can they do that? How can they do that?
• 35:43
  The same way they can pay $72 million out of 4.4 billion.
• 35:49
  The big equation is at the end of the day, we're still going to
• 35:54
  win, you know, and, and we'll close this plant and we'll close
• 35:57
  this one and we'll throttle it down to where, you know, we can
• 36:01
  only take so many of them. And I don't know, I, you know,
• 36:06
  I, I, I don't think we can import enough beef to make a
• 36:11
  huge difference. And it, it's going to come in
• 36:13
  hamburger. They say it takes 7 lbs of
• 36:17
  imported beef mixed with 1 LB of ours to get 85, 15 fat or a
• 36:25
  hamburger. And you know, we're, we're still
• 36:29
  not adding to the primals, the steaks, the roast, the high
• 36:33
  dollar cuts. But when you start important
• 36:35
  things, it, if we can keep the negative psychology out of it
• 36:40
  and just deal with the facts and what it is, I still want to
• 36:43
  believe that fundamentally we are as sound as we have ever
• 36:46
  been. We're not going to be able to
• 36:48
  make more cattle, physical cattle in any, any time frame
• 36:55
  short of the next couple 2-3 years.
• 36:58
  And that is, is on our side if we can keep everybody in
• 37:01
  business that long. So we're in a good position.
• 37:05
  We just need an even playing field that that's all anybody is
• 37:09
  asking for. So, you know, I think the, the
• 37:12
  Fed cattle deal, the consumer has already told us they're
• 37:15
  willing to pay for it. They're all broke, but by God,
• 37:18
  they're still buying beef. I I mean, the market is telling
• 37:22
  you they're still willing to pay for it, but the Packer also
• 37:26
  knows that they know the level where they're going to cross the
• 37:30
  line at and they'll rock right along that irregardless of what
• 37:34
  fat cattle cost. You know that that's a whole
• 37:37
  nother sector of the deal. They're in the meat business and
• 37:40
  they know what people are willing to pay and they'll spoon
• 37:43
  feed them at that level as long as they possibly can at the
• 37:47
  expense of the feed lot guys, at the expense of the yearling and
• 37:51
  and and the cow calf guy. So all the more reason to some
• 37:55
  way shape form, inject a little more competition into the deal.
• 37:58
  So we're not going through these huge UPS and huge downs we're
• 38:03
  seeing now. Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:05
  I can summed it off better. Very interested to see how this
• 38:09
  continues to shake out, how it's going to affect the market and
• 38:12
  everything else in between. And you made a really good point
• 38:14
  there, John, about the whole like, hey, we can try and start
• 38:18
  retaining heifers. We can try and start doing all
• 38:19
  of this stuff. But we're not going to see those
• 38:21
  results for two years. That's right, at least at least
• 38:25
  because are people really retaining right now at the rates
• 38:27
  that we want them to? That's, that's a question that
• 38:31
  is really hitting people right now as well, that hey, it's
• 38:33
  going to take two years to fix this problem, but we got to
• 38:36
  start fixing it right now. We can't.
• 38:37
  We can't wait two years and be like, wait, we said it was going
• 38:40
  to take two years to fix the problem and now we're still in
• 38:42
  the same boots that we were in two.
• 38:44
  Years ago, what you have to remember is as they are
• 38:47
  retaining heifers, that's less cattle in the, in the slaughter
• 38:52
  mix, you know, so we're we're building that.
• 38:55
  That adds to the shortage, you know, so I think long term that
• 38:59
  pays benefits and the supply and demand market, which you can
• 39:04
  argue whether we're in that or not.
• 39:05
  And it, it's just like the Mexican deal.
• 39:08
  I think they need, need watching just because of the
• 39:12
  psychological effect that they'll have when they open it.
• 39:14
  I, I wish they would tell us, here's our plan and here's where
• 39:18
  we're going. But the actual fact of
• 39:21
  introducing more Mexican cattle has a very, very small
• 39:25
  percentage of the entire pie. But psychologically and play on
• 39:30
  the speculative longs, you damn right it makes a difference.
• 39:34
  A big one. And we're at the mercy of that.
• 39:36
  Yeah, absolutely. It's a drop in the bucket as far
• 39:39
  as the entire cattle industry in the United States is concerned.
• 39:42
  But we play on an emotional market.
• 39:45
  We play on a market that cares about those news headlines, that
• 39:48
  cares about the potential psychological effect like you
• 39:52
  were talking about, that plays into all that.
• 39:54
  So very interested to see how it all shakes out.
• 39:57
  Excited to talk more about this with you next week and see how.
• 40:00
  How everything shakes out for the rest of today on Thursday
• 40:03
  when we're recording this and Friday and see how we can sum it
• 40:07
  all up next week and see what we're shaking and rolling with
• 40:09
  there. So thank you, John, for your
• 40:11
  time. As always, to all of our
• 40:13
  listeners, thank you for being here for another episode of the
• 40:16
  Cattle USA Daily Podcast. Have a great weekend, y'all.
• 40:19
  We will see you all on another episode on Monday.
• 40:22
  Have a good one.