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Skincare Made For Pre and Post Procedure Care With Doctor Rogers Skincare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Speaker Anarchy.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Ecta, and I have a wonderful guest with me today.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge fan of her as a professional as well as her wonderful line, and I can't wait to chat everything dermatology today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important for us to have um these heavy-hitting science episodes because really in the realm we're in right now and the current landscape, it's just there's never enough science, in my honest opinion.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just so honored to be hosting her.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Heather Rogers.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Dr.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Rogers.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Call me Heather, and I'm very happy to be here.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm really excited because, like I said, you know, we never have enough science, right?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, in the realm of uh skin care, skin health, wellness.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm really excited to kind of pick your brain today, um, but also learn about you because I know you have a beautiful line, and I really, really love it.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening, Dr.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Rogers' line is really amazing, and I've been uh trying it for a couple of weeks now and I've really enjoyed it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to learn all about that, Heather, but I would love to learn about you first if you could walk us down memory lane, tell us about how you got into dermatology and all of the great things that led up to this.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, thank you for asking and thank you for having me.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm a practicing dermatologist.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: I see patients four days a week at my practice in Seattle called Modern Dermatology.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: I fell in love with derm because you see what you're up against and it allows you and your patients to be really aligned.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, when somebody has diabetes or high blood pressure, they don't necessarily see the ailment, but with derm, people come in with the acne, they come in with the rash, and they can see how you've helped them.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's it's really satisfying.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a little bit like a primary care field because people keep coming back, they need to have their skin exams, they need to, you know, be seen regularly by their dermatologist, particularly if they have a history of skin disease.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's it's an easy place where you can make a very big difference for people.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I went into it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I also am a very um, very good with my hands.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just uh one of those people, when I was in seventh grade, I made a lot of friendship bracelets, right?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm a very tactile individual and I do a huge amount of surgery.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I not only am a dermatologist, I then am actually board certified as a MOS surgeon.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I did a fellowship in skin cancer surgery and reconstruction, and then I did another fellowship in cosmetics, so lasers, injectables.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very much on that end of dermatology with the procedures.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're doing procedures, you're injuring the skin.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're injuring the skin, you really need to know how to take care of it and not make things worse, um, which is why I sort of have an obsession with skincare as well.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you have that, you know, very, very impressive background, by the way.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you're um, you know, on both ends of the spectrum, you know, in terms of really understanding the surgical needs of patients, then also being able to educate about it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's so rare right now, especially when I look at not only our industry, but even the healthcare professionals, because we often tend to gravitate towards our discipline, right?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then we we don't really um have, you know, both hands in in the pool where we're able to kind of have this holistic understanding of overall the whatever discipline that may be, especially with dermatology, I feel like it's so important, you know, to know that because now more and more people are gravitating towards procedures, surgeries, and whatnot.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to actually uh kind of pick your brain about that because we really need to learn more about it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, I I would love to talk to you and start off by talking about how I mean you've been a very big advocate for you know this frankness, right, overall in the industry and being very forward and and telling the truth and no BS kind of stuff.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to talk about that a little bit with you because we have a lot of misinformation out here, you know?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um I would love to get your take on that, you know, what your opinion is about all the misinformation, misguidance, and whatnot.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yes, you you hit the nail on the head.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: I am here to get the truth out, and um, there is so much noise.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the noise I think is driven by a desire to sell products and to push um products and to make people think they need 11 steps.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I also think a lot of it comes from a natural desire to help.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And people are like, oh, this worked for me, therefore you should try it and it can work for you.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone, everyone, be a dermatologist or a celebrity or your next door neighbor, has had something go wrong with their skin and has worked really hard to figure out a way to fix it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then they want to share that wisdom.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: But so little of that is based in fact or data or is applicable to the next individual.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And as someone who sees thousands of patients every year and has, you know, 12 years of training in skin and dermatology, I'm really able to say, bullshit, not bullshit.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like that person might got lucky.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: That person's skin may be cleared up not because they were doing tea tree oil, but because they got more sleep.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: So there are truths, like fundamentally, our skin um all behaves in a similar way.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: We evolve together.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Our skin is supposed to keep water in, they're supposed to, you know, keep bad things out.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know the truths of the skin, there is only sort of a few things the skin needs, and there's only a few things that actually are going to help the skin.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the rest of this is just confusion and um FOMO and a desire to like have the new hot thing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: But skincare isn't like buying shoes or fashion.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like there isn't that many different things you can do to help your skin.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's interesting you say that because I actually, you know, when I first started skincare anarchy, there one of my, I think my first episode was called Misinformation uh in skincare.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I even to this day, I still have the same questions because I'm gonna be honest with you, there's a lot of um, there's a lot of you know, availability of products and accessibility these days.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's very easy for even some of the most well-informed consumers, right, to fall into this, this uh, I guess, you know, pool of misinformation and just assume that you know what, if there's enough marketing and if it looks pretty and if there's a lot of hype around it, it's gotta work, right?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my question really is is like, what are some of the things you've seen to really work?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know that this kind of probably ties into your brand as well because you have a really, really great brand, but it's like very simple in the sense of like it's got the essentials, you know what I mean?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've noticed that in your inky list.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to talk to you about this in terms of an ingredient standpoint because I think it's important to clarify, you know, for consumers.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love for to get your take on that.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are the essentials that we should be looking for?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what is it?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Some examples maybe of things you know that you know you've seen it doesn't work, you know, avoid it kind of thing.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: So great question.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um not like not let's not even talk about Dr.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Roger's skincare.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like if we just think about what your skin needs, the way I get my patients and my loved ones to take care of their skin is you have to get in the habit of washing your face at the end of the day.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's where everything begins.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you are gonna wash your face, putting on sunscreen, putting on makeup, like all of these things just accumulate in your skin, they're gonna cause problems.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you can maybe learn to do this when you're 10, you maybe learn to do this when you're 45, but you have to start washing your face.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Once you wash your face, you are no matter how gentle that cleanser is, you are removing some of those good oils from your skin.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: So if you wash your face, you have to use a moisturizer.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And 95% of aging comes from the sun.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: So once you're washing your face regularly, then you should be wearing sunscreen every morning.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to wash your sunscreen off at the end of the day, or it can lead to acne.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So those are really the first three steps is washing your face before you go to bed and then putting on a moisturizer so you don't go to bed with skin that's going to dry out while you're sleeping, particularly if you have forced air or AC or the heat on.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the morning, you got to put your sunscreen on.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the basics.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's like when your skin is irritated, when it's raw, when your rosacea is flaring, when you're healing from a procedure.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: Those are really the only steps you should be doing.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Then when your skin is normal, like it's not raw, it's not healing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: There are two different treatments that have really good data behind them to show that they help.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: The morning treatment is a preventative treatment, and that's the antioxidants.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's the vitamin C and the vitamin E and the ferulic acid and the coenzyme Q.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's the stuff that's going to protect your skin from the damage that could happen over the day, be it from the sun, be it from free radicals, be it from pollution.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: So once your skin is feeling pretty good, you got to put that vitamin C serum on in the morning, which I refer to as a day treatment.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then at night, you want to help with cell turnover.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: You want to help with exfoliation.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: You want to encourage your skin to build collagen.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the night treatment.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's more of a reparative treatment.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that can be retinol, it can be tretinoin, it can be glycolic acid, it can be Bacuchiol.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: It just has to be something that promotes cell turnover.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: But if your skin is irritated, asking it to process an acid like vitamin C or to turn over more quickly with retinol is only going to piss your skin off more.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't add those unless your skin is otherwise healthy.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you broke that down for with for like the morning and nighttime because I think that's something we all struggle with a lot, right?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is like figuring out what do we need in the nighttime?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do we need in the morning?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times I've actually gotten questions, even from my own team members, you know, at Skin Generic, we've talked about this.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can we be mixing acids and retinol?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Can we be mixing, you know, certain things?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it really, like, you know, I'm not a dermatologist.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I always preface with that, but I think it's important for us to all understand that there are ingredients, chemically speaking, that just don't jive together.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're not supposed to be.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: But also, like, what is it?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what people are like, oh, I need a serum.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're like, well, no, a serum is just a term for the texture of the product, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And creams and gels and serums and ointments.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're like, no, you don't have to have a serum.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: You need to have something that you put on your face in the morning that's going to collect free radicals.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Now that's weird in science-y, and you and I understand that, but maybe the rest of the world doesn't, which is why vitamin C is great.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like antioxidant might be a scary word, but you need something with vitamin C in it or another antioxidant to protect your skin in a way different than sunscreen.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: So in the morning, you protect the sunscreen, you protect with your antioxidant, and that's your day treatment.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Then at night, something to promote cell turnover.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: People are like, oh, I need salicylic acid and glycolic acid and retinol and bucuchiol, and I need to scrub and I need beads and I need a loofah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, no.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're a dermatologist appointment because you just destroyed your skin.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, pick one.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if you have thick, oily skin, prescription strength, retinoin, great.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be amazing for you.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you have thin skin, if you have mature skin, if you have dry skin, that's gonna be too strong.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And don't try to put like a square peg in a round hole.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: You just need something that's gonna help promote cell turnover.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if your skin is thin, things are gonna penetrate it easily.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And a little bit of glycolic acid might be all you need, and you will get a great result with that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: But if you push your skin too hard, you're just gonna piss it off.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like this is where I want to help people understand the groups of things, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's the basics, there's the essentials, you know, that's the face wash, the face cream, the sunscreen.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the essentials.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: You got to do those.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Then there's the advanced stuff, and those are all the magic potions that people love, but you don't want to use all of them on the same day.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: You got to like pick one in the morning, one at night, and only use it if your skin's tolerating them.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad that you said that because honestly, yeah, I mean, these terms, you know, serums, moisturizers, all this.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really about, you know, you will not believe uh for a while, and even now, I'm a huge advocate, for example, for like overnight masks.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love them.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're great products.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're things that we we often overlook these products because we're always like, you know, looking for the best serums, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or like best moisturizers.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I've honestly I've recommended probably more like overnight treatments than anything else to people.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you just say when you say overnight masks, this is like a very heavy protective moisturizer, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's maybe that's what people have to understand.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what that does is it it protects your skin.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's a whole nother layer to because skin loses water the whole time you sleep.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: You put on that good night mask, that nice thick moisturizer, and then all of that good doiness stays in your skin, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's incredibly important.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't, if you just wash your face and go to bed, you have stripped your skin of its own natural night mask.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: You haven't put anything on top of it, and you're gonna wake up with dried out skin and a limited skin barrier, and then whatever you put on in the morning is gonna irritate your skin, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: We all have this obsession of like getting things deeper, you're gonna get a hydrofacial and have them like pound in ingredients, and you're like, no, like the skin doesn't need very much.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like you talked about this on the previous podcast, but about therapeutic dosing, like the reason why you need 20% vitamin C is if you are a thick skinned, oily individual and nothing gets through it.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, nothing's gonna get through it, so you have to just use the strongest stuff available.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: If I did that on my skin, I would be a hot burning mess for 10 days, right?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: People have to listen to their skin, and more is not better.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: More is actually often less when you're over the age of 30.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Also, uh also, like more is it's respective to who you are.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a very like, I mean, it doesn't mean that the person you might be, you know, best friends with somebody who has totally opposite skin needs than you, you know, so you can't be using their products, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's that's another thing is I feel like consumers we love sharing our products.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm guilty of it, you know.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean so many things, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we share them, like with my mother, I'll share like my favorite moisturizer at the time or whatever, but like half the time, you know, my mom is very blunt, so like this doesn't work for me.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: But how many times, you know, do people just go with it, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because their friends are like doing it or their their family is doing it, and it's like I I'm just curious, like from a dermatologist's uh standpoint, do you see cases like that where someone might have like tried something because so and so was using it, and then now you're like dealing with a serious situation on your hands, you know?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: I see irritation from skincare products every day, like every single day.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's why I had to make a skincare line, is I didn't want to, like I'm a super happy, successful, busy dermatologist.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I love it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm not very good at the status quo.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I identify a problem, I feel have a compulsion to fix it.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when I was a resident, I started a a skin, uh, a skin clinic for transplant patients because 25% of transplant patients end up dying of a skin cancer from the immunosuppression.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you can't survive a cardiac transplant and then die of a skin cancer.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is dumb.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone who gets a transplant needs to have a dermatologist, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just, to me, that was an easy solution.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: I moved to Seattle and there wasn't what I considered like a high-end boutique dermatology practice.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot of practices where there was one doctor and a whole bunch of physician assistants and not a lot of like touch points.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, no, I don't like that.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I started a skincare.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: I started a practice.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, I'm I'm lasering people's faces, and their friend tells them to put pure vitamin E oil on their face after it's been lasered, and they're getting these horrible rashes.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I tell them to use Vaseline, and they're like, Vaseline's gross, it's petroleum-based, I won't use it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, you know what, guys?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna make you something because I'm I'm sick of the complications.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's the origin story.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is I'm just like, okay, I'm I'm gonna I can do something better.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it actually wasn't hard, which is embarrassing to say.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if the best thing out there is occlusive Vaseline when you when your skin is raw, come on, like we got to be able to do something better than that.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I made my healing balm is it's three ingredients, they all help the skin.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's roll with that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's where what is like people give each other skincare products because it's a way of showing love.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: They're expensive, they're pretty, it's self-care, it's like it's such a thoughtful thing to do.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: But people would be better served if they thought of skincare like medicine, where you want to do as little as you have to to get the result that you need, and instead do the self-care with beautiful robes and cashmere socks and like going for a walk.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: I would much rather get socks, honestly.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: But like, but self skincare can cause a lot of harm.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we have think of it as not that, but but these are chemicals we are rubbing on our bodies, and um 95% of them truly are not helpful, and some of that percentage are harmful, but 95% aren't helpful, and so it is it's a very confusing message.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a 13-year-old daughter whose favorite thing to do is to go to Ulta and buy the thing in the best packaging and cheap, cheap and great packaging, right?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just filled with the most toxic ingredients, and just trying to explain to her why that's a bad choice, even as the daughter of a dermatologist who has a skincare line, is really challenging.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's the uphill battle.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that, and it's really not until people start getting allergic reactions to their staples in their sort of mid-30s that they realize, oh, I gotta be paying better attention here.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's when um where people really start being more particular and and discerning in what they're using.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I completely hear you.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like, you know, and I I wanted to actually mention this because you brought up the healing balm, and it's literally one of my favorite products in your line.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I use this every day, I use it for my lips, and it's just like I'm a huge like lip balm like snob.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So like I I need something that's gonna just not have a scent to it, something that works, and it's like I love this product for everyone listening.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: It comes in a beautiful like aluminum tube, and you can use it and you can take it, take it everywhere, and you can use it anywhere on your body.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you have ashy elbows, you can put it on your elbows, you know, like you can put it anywhere.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our first ad campaign for that was like 99 problems, but the healing bomb ain't won.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's it's like it's like Windex, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: It is it is made for everything.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: And my joke at my office is that when somebody calls with a skin problem, we're like, use the healing bomb.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: And if it doesn't fix it, it's either a skin cancer or a pimple because it will literally fix everything else.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So um it is I I like to explain it as it's the food, water, and shelter that your skin needs, like when it's on a desert island, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: So when your skin is raw and it needs to heal, it needs water to heal, it needs food to heal, it needs to be protected.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so the castor um oil is the food, the castor wax is the protection, and the glycerin really pulls in water.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And those three things just work magically.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the reason why things heal so much better with the healing balm than they do with aquafore or with Vaseline.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: We did a um or a study was done comparing the healing after aggressive lasering with using aquafore on half the face and the healing balm on the other half of the face.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the healing balm side blew the aquafore side out of the water.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: The skin healed several days faster, less redness, less crustiness, was easier to use.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's because of it has everything the skin needs and nothing it doesn't.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I agree, it should be in every medicine cabinet.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's magical on burns.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like when somebody, I was um, there was a lawsuit at Nordstrom's where somebody got a boiling hot burn from their coffee on their hand, and um, they were suing Nordstrom, and I got brought in to see if I could fix the hand, and I just had her use a healing balm on it for a week and it healed without a scar.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, wow, good job.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's just it works.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: The skin knows how to heal itself.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if you give it a few things to help it along the way, the skin's gonna perform really well for you.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to actually say you should do a lip study because my brother has the worst trapped lips.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like he has a problem with trapped lips.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I actually had him try it and he was visiting me and I was like, try this.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he loved it.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: He fell in love with your healing bomb as well.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that this is like if you're out there, even if you don't have like burns or you don't do procedures, like even if you're just like, I need a great lip balm, you know, just something that works.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna be like, you know, scented, all that it this is perfect, like it's Literally perfect.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's particularly if you have like cracked, fissured, raw, when skiing, wind burn lips, like the healing bombs.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: There is, I have a lip balm as well.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the lip balm is also magical, and we should get that to your brother.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I made that.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's I have a dear friend who is a man who you know buys the 12 packs of chapstick off of Amazon like every two weeks.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's just these group of people who are just obsessed with lip balm and Karmex and all these things, they have to put it on all the time.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the vast majority of those really cheap lip products um have ingredients that accumulate in your body, right?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're just putting them on your lips.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, no, no, no, no.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're going food grade.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's get stuff that actually is safe for you to be putting on 14 times a day.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and his joke with my my lip balm is it's in the business of putting itself out of business because you don't need to put it on very much.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: It works so well, you like put it on twice a day.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say that.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say, I was like, this, that's why I love it so much because I don't have time to put on.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like get it on and then you're good for hours.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And like, yeah, like if you're not supposed to do, it's supposed to work, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not supposed to smell good, it's not supposed to look pretty, it's supposed to work, and so um that's why like my products aren't particularly frilly, is like they work, they don't need to sell themselves with gold leaf and like petunia smells, they just need to do their job, and that's what they do.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't have exotic extract from like the humanity.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because like like this is this is there's two groups for skincare.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's two groups.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: There is the there is the old standby, the cedophil, the ceree, the vanny cream that are filled with non-biodegradable ingredients.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: They're not going to irritate your skin.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing sexy about them, and they have parabens in them and petroleum and mineral oil, right?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's that group.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was a push against those groups to the to the plant-based clean movement, which is filled with essential oils, plant-based ingredients, fragrance that may biodegrade but irritate the crap out of your skin, right?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: Those are our two buckets right now.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I found neither of them acceptable.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, guys, why can't we meet in the middle?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't we have things that are hypoallergenic but still plant-based?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's every one of my ingredients biodegrades.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: So everything, every one of my ingredients is hypoallergenic, but first and foremost, they're effective.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like it has to work, then it has to be safe, and then it has to go away.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you make a good skincare product.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you you've done it because honestly, I am really, really obsessed with your line.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really great.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I want to actually shift focus a little bit because, you know, as I'd mentioned, we did talk about, you know, how there is a trend right now and it's an uptrend of people getting in-clinic procedures, you know, and I know you touched on that a little bit with the healing bomb and being able to use it, you know, as like post-uh, you know, treatment kind of like, you know, care or whatever.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I really love that.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I I want to talk to you about this idea of like more and more people getting in clinic, you know, treatments and procedures.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what do you feel about that?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think everyone needs something done?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you I mean, what what is your take on it from obviously as a doctor, but obviously, you know, as a consumer as well, as a as a person who sees this day in and day out, you know?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so no, people I encourage my friends, my patients, do as little as you can to feel like you're doing enough, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there is goodness, I have a lot of opinions about this.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what it comes down to is that much like the beauty industry, the vast majority of people, the providers doing the Botox, the filler, the procedures, get paid the more they do, right?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I could put 20 units of Botox on you, or I could put 80 units of Botox on you, and I charge per unit.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if I do more, I make more money.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I am the exact opposite.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: I like to do as little as I can to address the issue for the patient with minimizing how much they are utilizing, right?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if somebody doesn't like their deep forehead lines, you know, you could put eight units in their forehead or you could put 28 units in their forehead.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And 28 units might really blast out those forehead lines, but it will also take away the pretty arch in their eyebrows and take away their expression.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's actually much more challenging to get a good result with less.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you can't, sometimes you have to use more.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but I would say I love neuromodulators, I love Botox, I love Daxify, I love Dysport, I use them on myself.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think done with a light touch, really slow those fine lines around the eyes, between the eyes and the forehead.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very powerful for that.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then for particularly women on the lower face, we all are obsessed with this tight jawline and doing um a neuromodulator along the jawline in the neck can also really open up and give some definition to the jawline.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: In regards to filler, hyaluronic acid fillers, that's the Juveder and the Russellin, those I think are okay in small amounts.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the big lip obsession, I I have anger towards it.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those lips only look good when they're perfectly lined, perfectly lit, perfectly glossed.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at some of these beautiful, famous people whose lips have tripled in size over the last five years, you can see nodules, you can see that they're asymmetric, you can see that they are not um something they're gonna do well in normal lighting.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: And over time, the lips really lose their beautiful shape by being overfilled, overfilled, overfilled.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if you go on Instagram, you see what I consider body dysmorphic, where it's just the lips are truly a quarter of the face on faces where that doesn't make sense.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's incongruous, which makes it actually less appealing in my mind.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really like technology that makes the body do more of the work on its own.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, there's a filler called sculptra.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sculptra, we inject and it's like fertilizer, and then the body builds collagen on top of it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just hyaluronic acid getting squeezed in, it's actually activating your own body's collagen.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: There are technologies like um radio frequency and um electromagnetic contractions that actually make your body build more muscle and more collagen on its own.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you get that volume, you get that lift without having foreign substances.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is really the wave of sustainability and the wave of the future and like how do we have ourselves looking like ourselves at 25, at 35, at 45, and at 55, which I think is the goal.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: The goal is not to look different, the goal is to slow the inevitable while being really true to your own features.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I love that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I love your approach.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is something that's so, in my opinion, it's very novel because I think that right now we're in the post-procedure era, you know what I mean, of just everything post-procedure, but like people don't really talk about it, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: They don't explain it, they don't go into it, they don't and they're not happy.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is the as I see the complications, and people come in, beautiful people with all of the resources, and they have been getting, you know, three to five syringes of filler every year, and like it's usually around 50, they just start looking sausage-y, like their face just starts looking doughy.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then that extra weight sort of drags their face down.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I I do uh a lot of procedures to reverse that, to sort of give them their angles and their jawline and their shape back.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's reversing filler.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's something called elochore, where it's microcoring that removes skin, but also removes old filler to try to get them closer to to where they want to be.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when it comes down to it, we're all gonna age.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like gravity is there, and our cheeks are gonna move down and our boobs are gonna move down, and we're gonna have fine lines and wrinkles.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, Helen Marin has had at least one, if not two facelifts, but she has accepted her lines.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Julia Roberts, she has her smile lines, and I think that's beautiful.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's so odd when you have a 72-year-old woman whose knees and elbows look 75 and her face looks, you know, 26.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like that's that's not beautiful.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's foreign.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's um our our eyes, even if we don't want our eyes to see it, our eyes see the incongruence in it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like, how do we do a better job of taking care of all of us?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I want people to use glycolic acid on their body.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: I want them to use sunscreen on their body.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: I always talk about very important parts.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Your very important parts are any part of your body that get a lot of sun.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's your face, that's your neck, that's your chest, that's the backs of your hands.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Those all should get the same powerful treatments that I talked about for the face.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the same ones that should get the antioxidants, the vitamin C, the sunscreen.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and not it, it's not just your face that should get those, but you don't need different products.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need a neck cream and a hand cream.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: I use the same good products on all those areas, and maybe they're made for the face, but really they're made to slow aging.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's why we have them.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you brought that up because I was actually going to mention your body cream is amazing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank you.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like most men use it on their face, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's great.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Use it in your face.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's wonderful.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could use it anywhere.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's it's light enough to use on your face, it's absolutely light enough, and I think, but it's it's good enough to be where every part of my body doesn't feel like one of my biggest pet peeves, and I'm just gonna say it, and I don't know if uh all of you listening out there can relate, but I hate really heavy body creams.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't like them.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're they just feel terrible, right?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in the case.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're greasy, they get on your clothes.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just not a it's not a feel I want, you know?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I love this because it almost like I don't know if it's the shea butter in there, but it's a it's a really great texture in the sense that you'll put it on, it feels very nourishing, very rich, but then it will literally like as you're massaging it in, it feels like a gel going into your skin.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I love it, and it looks wonderful because it doesn't give you like that fake oily, greasy cast, you know what I mean?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't do any of that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's just your skin is just nourished at the end of it, and I really, really love it.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely for me become something I've been using for my body care.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And on that note, I want to actually talk to you about body care as well, you know, in addition to the cream, because it we don't talk about it enough as an industry, and I think that's a huge problem.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just touched on it where yeah, we have 50,000 facial products, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then where are all the body care products?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And not only do we not have body products, is that people don't want to spend more than$25 on their body, right?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and again, this drives me, I have a lot of pet peeves.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, like your entire body, like what you're rubbing on your body is what you're absorbing.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the chemicals that are getting into your bloodstream.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Though, you know, if you have a little bit of paraben in your vitamin C serum, it's not that big of a deal.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're not using it that many places, and you're not using that much of it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a little bit of paraben in your total body moisturizer, that's accumulating you.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: That is getting in your blood, that is getting in your breast tissue.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: And what does that mean?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: We don't really know, but we definitely have some data to suggest that it is our hormone receptor activator, right?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, when we think about body, that's actually when you want to be a little bit more discerning.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Also, while I'm ranting, um, whatever isn't absorbed into your body gets washed down the drain and accumulates in our waterways.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you you you gotta think about you and you gotta think about the world in regards to, and so this is where paying a little bit more for something that's not filled with microbeads and carbamur and parabens is actually a good spend.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I would much rather have you buy the$40 well-formulated body cream than the$250 half ounce eye cream that does nothing for you.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And yet people spend the money on the eye cream.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, the eye cream isn't gonna do anything and is absorbently expensive.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And rubbing your body with like again, parabens and petroleum oil is not good for anything.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my big issue there.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, but also some of the creams like in drugstores don't do anything.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, is it?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's to get back to your point, is like people don't like it to be sticky.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I respect that.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't either.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So then there's these watery, jelly lotions, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like Vaseline-intensive lotion from forever ago, and it just does nothing.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: You rub it on, it sits on the top layer of your skin, doesn't help at all with the ashy skin.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Your skin isn't softer for it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you need to find one that is hydrating enough, right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and body oils, I think, are popular for that because they um feel relatively lightweight or easy to rub in.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: The problem with oil is that the body does a better job of absorbing emulsions, right?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: You need water and oil together.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're gonna use a body oil, you want to have your skin be damp, right?
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you actually can get the oil deeper into your into your skin layers.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but for what I do for my body, and what I would encourage people is it's more work, but I try to use a moisturizer every day.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it can be before bed, it can be when you get out of the shower on my entire body.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: And as you age, your skin cells turn over more slowly and your skin starts to feel rough and less soft.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And by moisturizing every day, you really can combat that.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can get that soft 25-year-old feel to your skin as long as you're good about moisturizing.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then just like you use a night treatment on your face to promote cell turnover, you should do a night treatment to promote cell turnover on your body.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to do it every day, but it is something where that's the reason why your skin gets crepey.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's the reason why the brown spots start to show up is you're not doing that chemical exfoliation to really keep your skin supple, soft, and turning over.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it makes sense because I think that, you know, there's so many points here because I I wanna I want to talk about this topic with you more about the the price point thing, because this is huge.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is really huge.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we literally spend thousands.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, screw the$25.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's talk about the overall bill at Sephora, okay?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and people don't think twice about dropping exactly thousands of dollars on sheet masks and eye cream.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that just goes into the landfill, people.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like it does nothing exactly, yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: You don't do anything either for your skin.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I don't understand the logic because for me as a consumer, I'm a huge fan of like a lot of products.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's be real.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love a really great product, whether it's my face or body, but especially for my body, if I find a product, like at this point of the industry where we are right now, if I find a good body product, like your body cream is amazing.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And if I find something like this, I cling to it.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know there's nothing out there.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's literally a landfill, you know, of like just wasted like packaging, plastic, and crap.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't do anything.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I am a huge, huge believer in that, you know, I am more worried about my body, like the skin on my body than my face, because where are all the skin cancers happening?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Your body, you know what I mean?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's the rest of your fate, like other than your face.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's where all of the pathologies take place for some for obvious reasons, actually, because we're not taking care of those areas.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're not looking at the case.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: You're not taking care of those areas, they're drying out.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's where you get the eczema, that's where you get the rashes, because they're we're taking multiple showers.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Every every time you bathe, you wash your face, you bathe your body, you take a shower, a bath, whatever it is, that removes oils from your skin.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: It removes dirt.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not necessarily a bad thing, but you have to replace it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're gonna shower twice a day, you got to moisturize twice a day.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you were in a shower once every three days, you got to moisturize every once every three days.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you cannot wash without hydrating.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the reason why all skincare routines go back to washing your face and moisturizing.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing for your body.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you wash your body, you moisturize because you're removing those protective oils and you got to give them back so your skin can take care of itself.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, on the on the concept of uh on the topic of body care, I actually want to ask you because I know right now I've seen a lot of products come out that are really kind of combating KP.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to talk about that because I think a lot of consumers are this is the most common thing I see, you know, on social media or I hear about.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so what is your if you could educate us a little bit about this, you know, in terms of when it comes to body care, something like KP, something like any kind of bumpy skin, strawberry skin, whatever you want to call it, you know, how can we really care for that?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: What is the routine that we should be following for those kind of things?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: So Keratosis pylaris is the little bumps that we get on the back of our arms.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: You can get it on your butt, you can get it on your thighs, you can actually get it on your face.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's a type of eczema.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: It is not curable.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: It is more common in people of sort of northern European descent, but anyone can get it.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it oftentimes gets a little bit better as we age.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, like it's bad when you're like young teenage years, gets better and then gets worse again as we age because our skin dries out.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Scrubbing it with a mechanical scrubber, dry brushing, loofahs, um, salt beads is terrible.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: You are just making micro cuts in your skin, drying it out further and making things worse.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Picking at it, terrible.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't take away a genetic predisposition.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: All you can do is soften it.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the way you soften it is you want to use a treatment with glycolic acid in it primarily.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, salicylic acid is just really, really drying and the skin's already too dry.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to use, and there's a lot of capee products out there, but really what you want is a body product with at least 8% glycolic acid.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not moisturizing, um for example, drunk elephant has a great body glycolic acid.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's 10% glycolic acid, but it's really, really lightweight, you would need to follow that with a good moisturizer like my body cream.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um just using a body, like a good moisturizing body cream will help.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: But if you really want it to feel smoother to the touch, so you're less likely to scratch at it, you need to have a chemical exfoliator of which glycolic acid is really the best.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, retinol, tretinoin, because KP so often is red, um, that oftentimes just makes it redder.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so it makes people more self-conscious.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that doesn't seem to be a problem with glycolic acid.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, interesting.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I see a lot of glycolic in these products.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I know there's more.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like glycolic acid is great.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: It it's just what you said is like it's gotta, it can't just exfoliate.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's gotta hydrate.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so many of the new body treatments that are coming out are really, really lightweight.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: So they're exfoliating, but they're not giving the skin the protection it needs in a good moisturizer.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense to me because I I noticed that you know, a lot of people are really into, I mean, they were about a month or two ago into dry brushing and all of this, and it was always so cringy for me because I just don't believe in it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's be honest.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there was this whole conversation around lymph lymphatic drainage.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Again, every time we don't know what we're doing, we blame lymphatic drainage.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I just like lymphatic drainage, sure, do that.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: But lymphatic massage is this very light touch, like soothing meditative massage.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not dry brushing, right?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if you just rub a moisturizer in your body, that's going to be lymphatic massage.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: But scrubbing and rubbing with a dry brush, that we as humans just think of a little's good, more is better.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so we scrub hard, we cause these micro tears, we disrupt the skin biome, we give ourselves a skin infection, like just all the manual exfoliation needs to be gotten rid of.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, first we will burn that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, I hear you, and I agree because honestly, it's it's getting to a point now where I think we're repeating the same mistakes that we did for facial skin now for the body.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really why I I cringe every time I see these things, and I'm like, why are we doing it again?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like we went through the era of no more, you know, physical exfoliation for the face.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: We went through the patting with your ring finger under the eye, you know, we went through all of that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: And moral being, you have to be sensitive.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is the problem, is that the is that the need for new, right?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that every beauty store, every brand, every investor is like, what are you launching next?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: What's the next new thing?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that sort of comes full turf full circle to where we began, is that there is very little new.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are there are some cutting edge amazing things out there, but they are few and far between.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the next new thing for your skin very, very rarely is gonna help.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: And like the example that comes to mind right now is the um the things that make your lips look more swollen, right?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: So these irritants, the peppermint, the spearmint, the um you're putting these things on and you're Lips get mildly swollen.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: They look a little pinker, they look a little filler, fuller.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that has just was has been sort of taking off for the last 10 years.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I would see allergic reactions to those, again, on a weekly basis.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: And now we've moved to the glossy, like hyaluronic acid-base lip plumpers.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that's much safer, right?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is it really going to make your lips that much bigger?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: But if you want something that's glossy, that's a little bit hydrating, that's going to plump your lips a little bit without the risk of the allergic reaction, that's a great way to go.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: The problem is very few of them are only hyaluronic acid base.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of them have both.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, no, you don't want the irritants, right?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's it's a fun thing that you can put in a pretty pink box and like have sexy lips on the outside.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we're all guilty of like buying that.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're all guilty of it.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's interesting because from a you know, actual physiology perspective, like if you were to ask anybody who has a PhD in physiology or anything, any training at all, they would tell you that those chemicals that are in these products are really, really bad for you.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're causing that really what they're doing is they're reprogramming your receptors to have a hyper-exaggerated response.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not what you want ever.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you never want to train any organ body part area of your skin to be responding to a stressor like that.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like that's literally what you're doing.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're stressing your lips out.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's the easiest way of doing it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you can make that argument with this obsession with growth factors and peptides that we have.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like growth factors and peptides are released when your skin is under stress.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: As we age, we release less of them, right?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but having them be in all of these skin cares, at best, they're gonna stress out, stress out your skin.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Usually they just biodegrad or they degrade and don't do anything because they break down so quickly, right?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: But but if you if you really want to get like a fantastic result from growth factors and peptides, what works the best is PRP, right?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Platelet-rich plasma.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you can get that injected into your knees, into your scalp, into your face.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's gonna build a whole bunch of collagen and be very helpful and actually work versus this like low grade exposure to things that we aren't really sure what they're going to do in all of your skincare products.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like skincare should support, nurture your skin, right?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: It should make your life easier for your skin.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And most skincare just makes your skin have more to deal with that it doesn't want to deal with.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love that you said that.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even with things like PRP, though, I mean, if you were to put that like, you know, I know a lot of people were doing the whole, like, was it vampire facial or something that utilized it?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I hated that facial because it made your skin look terrible after a day, you know, it was like the worst, but again, it's about mode of delivery, right?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's about how you're getting things into the right places at the right time in the right way.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where a lot of consumers get caught up.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, it really ties into like being in a clinic and having procedures done and things done by professionals because you're you don't know what your body needs because you haven't studied the anatomy, the physiology, the the chemistry.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have the background as a general consumer, and that's okay.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's why you go to a professional, you know, and and so much, and the people who I think look the best at every age are the people who have a routine that works for them, right?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's it's not it's not a it's not a one-off, right?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: When when like I'll be taking care of two people and they will be best friends, and one person would have been seeing me since she was 30, and the other person comes in at 45 and is like, hey, I want to look like Sarah, right?
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, well, Sarah has been Sarah has been taking really good care of her skin for the last 15 years.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and part of that is seeing me, but part of that is wearing sunscreen, using a vitamin C serum, using a, you know, a night treatment.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like keeping the skin in shape and knowing what its responsibility is and giving the skin what it needs to take care of you, right?
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the it's it's not there, we all want this instant gratification, but even if you come in and have me CO2 laser your face, the next day you start aging again, right?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, always like, how long is it gonna last?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, it's gonna last as long as you take care of it, right?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like yeah, everything else, if you take good care of it, it's gonna last longer.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so what people don't understand is like, oh, there's no harm.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: This might work, this eye cream might work for me.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: If it doesn't, well, then I just wasted 50 bucks, but that's okay, or 250 bucks.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_02: But whenever you irritate your skin, you lead to an inflammatory pathway that breaks down collagen.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's actually better to not do it than to do it, right?
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's better not to try the new product because there's a 5% chance it's gonna help.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a 95% chance it's not gonna help.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's a 15% chance it's gonna harm.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: The ratio is actually better to not do it.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I am given hundreds of free products every year, and it is my job to be on top of them.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I read the ingredients and I try them.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there's very little that gets on the upper half of my face because that skin is so sensitive.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'll try it on my arms, I'll try it on my hands, but it is one of these things where less is more.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: You got to be selective about your ingredients.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be selective about what you're putting on your skin.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I truly believe as somebody who has access to everything that you only need five steps to take outstanding care of your skin.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen it day in and day out.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just face wash, face moisturizer, sunscreen, a day treatment, and a night treatment.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need an eye cream, you don't need a toner, you don't need a neck cream, you don't need a mist or a serum or a spritzer.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just need the basics to support your skin so your skin can do its job.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you have broken that down.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: It really reflects in your line and the whole range.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, for everyone listening, like this is, I mean, you really create a great line, you know.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: We you really have, you know, Heather.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I love it.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the reason I love it is because of that exact philosophy and the exact steps you just outlined.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I I remember a long time ago, I I don't know who it was I was talking to, but we were having this very similar conversation.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally said I was like, you know, the best skincare line is going to be the one that literally can come close as close to possible to mimicking your own skin's rhythm, natural rhythm.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I really think we get lost, you know, in this world of, you know, just so many products because we have so many things that are disrupting the normal rhythm where we we don't even are not even acknowledging that this goes against everything we know about the human body.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anytime you have a disruptor in the human body, the body fights back.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: The body says, No, I don't want this because it's a very functional system in place.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a closed system, it works the way it works, it knows why it's doing what it's doing, and you cannot introduce factors in there that are going to disrupt it because then that's when you're gonna cause, you know, chaos.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get all this inflammation, like you said.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I keep seeing products, you know, day in and day out where it's like I literally sit there and I'm I'm like trying to figure out who was behind the logic for this, because it doesn't coincide with the natural, you know, everyday working of the skin, of the body in general, you know.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, I'm just I I think it's so important to understand that, you know, at this point.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's absolutely mandatory.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously for consumers, but like even if there's aestheticians out there and you guys are educating people on the on daily, you know, daily level, like you have to tell as many people this as possible because we don't need to be stripping our skin every day with an acid, you know, we don't need that stuff.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't know.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just I think it's it's something that I keep, you know, kind of beating it on top of its head like a dead horse.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: But like I I really believe in it, and I think your line is such a testament to that philosophy.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for everyone listening, Dr.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: Rogers Skincare, I mean, it's a really, really great line.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that I think you're gonna see fits perfectly in even if you don't have a routine, this is a great starting place for you guys.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times, more than adding on products, we need places to start and where to begin.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is uh something I want to see more of in the industry, personally speaking.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would love to see more lines kind of follow the idea of let us give people a starting point.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like a starting line kind of place rather than oh, here you go, here's 15 new products we just came out with.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Figure it out, you know, fit it into your routine.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I really urge everyone to check out Dr.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: Roger's skincare.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be linking everything in the concept art for this episode.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: But Heather, it has been such an honor to host you.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: You are such a wealth of knowledge, and I I absolutely appreciate everything you've shared with us today.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to be here.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: And just to add one little thing about the skincare line, it it's exactly what you said is that it's it's a great place to start, but really what it ends up being, it's a great place to end, is that people try everything and then they find mine and they're like, this works.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: This doesn't irritate my skin.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's because each product, you had to fight to be an ingredient that was included.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, unless you were going to be effective and safe and biodegradable, you weren't invited to the party.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's nothing in there that is optional or added for marketing purposes.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: Things are there at the percentages they need to make a difference and um only there because there's data to support what they can do for you.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is really unusual in skincare.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is very unusual.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that you did that homework because uh one of the biggest pillars, I think, is we need people to be putting out products that the homework has been done.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because consumers will go on to Google and be like, okay, well, 50% vitamin C is great.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I need that in my routine.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like people don't understand that.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you did that, and I love that you added that in.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I totally agree.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really great line.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: And no matter what age you are, that's another thing.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think no matter what age group you are in, um, no matter if you've had procedures, not had procedures, doesn't matter.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a very, it's gentle enough to work for everybody, but it's effective enough to work for everybody as well.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something that we rarely get to see in the industry.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I promise you guys, once you try it, you're gonna fall in love.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I really suggest trying the um the healing balm.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really great place.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for just an everything product, use it.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm felting.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's the one that people are obsessed with.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're exactly right.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's won like 12 awards, it's um it's in everyone's medicine cabinet, it's in all the you know, famous people's beauty kits for hair and makeup.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's fun to see people using it at you know, at events and at award shows.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's um, it's really made a place for itself, and I have a great pride in that.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's awesome.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's wonderful, and also the body cream is great too.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is another really big, like hard hitter for me.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think every single product, honestly, every product is phenomenal, and I can't wait for everyone to try it.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: And please chime in if you do, and if you have already, I want to hear from you, and we'll you know, pin your comments if you decide to chime in.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you so much, Dr.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Rogers.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was truly an honor to host you.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, bye-bye.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 55:40
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• 55:45
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• 55:48
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• 55:51
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• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're available on Instagram, TikTok, X, you name it, we're there.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: We also have a blog on Medium.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.