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Say Who, Say Pod, Ep. 207 · Say Who, Say Pod

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Pod.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Pod.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Say Who Say Pod.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's Danny O'Neill in a Seattle Mariners hat.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Christian Caple.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: We only got one more of these before the Washington Huskies play a football game in 2026.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: For real.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Things are starting to... We're narrowing down.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: They finish with their scrimmage.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Camp is over.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Although it doesn't quite feel like they break camp anymore.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel that way to you?
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's just... We were discussing this at the mock game...
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Usually the mock game,
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is right,
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: the last two years has kind of marked like the end of what you would think of
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: as camp.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the last two years has been the last like practice that we've been able to see.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: But because of the calendar this year with opening weekend coming late, right,
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: instead of being like August 30th or 31st,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: it's in Washington's case, September 6th, but September 5th for most of the country.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: We have four more open practices that are open to press at least.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're close to the public, but we're recording this on Tuesday morning.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Washington practices this evening and then Wednesday,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thursday, Friday that we're all going to be out and able to watch as well.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we were discussing like, but is this still the end of camp?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would I would think that the camp portion is over.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think the mock game delineates that.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's more just that because of the calendar,
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: you've got like two weeks of,
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know, are they specifically opponent prepping at this point?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it does feel like camp is over.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like, OK, like these are these are season practices.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if they see it that way or not.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: When did they stop traveling for camp?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I know that Neuheisel, they went to Evergreen.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: I recall going down to Olympia for practices.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: When did the transition come where they didn't go anywhere else?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know when they stopped.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have never covered them offsite.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe Willingham?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Ty, yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: It always amused me when they went to Evergreen.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought that was the funniest place
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: ever to hold
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: a football training camp was Evergreen College.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: It is a very like old-school two-a-days thing, the idea of going away.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think Washington State stopped going to Lewiston,
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: but they were practicing at like a middle school in Lewiston for a time.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mike Leach's second year there was the first time doing that, so I did cover a camp in Lewiston.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, other than the drive, kind of, you know, it's different, right?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: It breaks up the monotony.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there are,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: like, chemistry and team-building considerations, right, that go into all that.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're staying somewhere else.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're isolated.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you and your teammates.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it allows you to lock in a little bit better.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly part of the romanticism of football and training camp,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: the Seahawks used to go to Eastern Washington,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: and I always thought that was funny,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: the idea of NFL players living in a college dorm.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was going to say it seems distinctly collegiate, but it is.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they do it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: The Cowboys still go to Oxnard,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: but that's Southern California and kind of to get out of the heat.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know the Saints at one point would go to West Virginia, which I always thought was funny.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: West Virginia.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they would take their training camp when Peyton was there.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: They would go up to West Virginia.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: But in general, most teams have moved away from any sort of, it's all on site now.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that has to do with sort of the training regimen and
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: the increased focus on diet,
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think, providing better food and better support for the athletes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can always find Chuck Olsakia on site in Shoreline, Washington, Danny.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: They're never on the road.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: But you will be on the road after you go there.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: On the road in comfort!
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Locally owned and operated since 1964.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Family owned and operated by a family of University of Washington graduates.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: With a friendly low-pressure sales staff and a competitively priced selection
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: of vehicles,
• 4:12
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• 4:15
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• 4:17
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• 4:19
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• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: This episode of Say Who Say Pod also brought to you by our friends at Husky Mobile.
• 4:24
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• 4:27
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• 4:30
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• 4:32
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• 4:34
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• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: We got our answer on whether Ramzak Fruin is going to start this year, huh?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I cracked up and I fell down because I should have gotten the I should have gotten the quote.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: But Jed tucked it in at the end.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: You were so diplomatic in kind of asking the question about Isaiah Ward.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Having to basically like, where do things stand with Isaiah Ward now?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's coming back for injury.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: You haven't had many.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Does he slide right back in with the ones?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Was essentially the premise.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And Jed kind of goes, well, he's practiced.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen him in there.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Ramzak's going to start.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: In hindsight, I feel a little silly for the premise of the question.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was anticipating that the response would be somewhere along those lines,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: just based on all of what we've seen at practice.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that didn't come as any surprise to you at all?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe that he was like that definitive.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: But look,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: when they've got someone they think is really good,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: especially when that person's really young,
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: like they're not shy about saying this dude's going to play or this guy's going
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: to start.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: They told us on signing day.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Jed Fish told us on signing day that Cody Green was going to start at left tackle.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Ramzak threw and walked in the door with that expectation necessarily.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: They did move him from the position he was recruited at.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: He was an inside linebacker through his recruitment.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: He got there, they thought, and also imagine if he were still playing inside linebacker.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: What would you do with him?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: That position's pretty stacked.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't watch him on the field and think this dude's an inside linebacker.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: It would be like when John Madden one year made an all-Madden team
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: where he had like 11 nose guards, essentially.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like you could have a defense that would be like half inside linebackers.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Some guys someplace put their hand down.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they don't.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's just we're going to have five inside linebackers playing.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: I do think Ramzak could play a number of different positions with his body type
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: and his athleticism.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: But he seems quite adept at rushing the passer.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: So here was my,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: where I thought things stood, was that this might be a situation where Fruin and...
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Isaiah Ward and maybe even other players kind of go into a game
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: with they might get equal reps. We'll see who's hot.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see how things work out.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: I did not anticipate a situation where Ramzak Fruin was going to be the top name on
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: the depth chart.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: I thought you might see an or or a situation where
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: the older player starts out first, even if Ramzak gets more plays.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And instead, it was just very clear, like, no, man, we really like what you see.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of What you're saying about
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: when this coaching staff decides they're going to go young,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: they don't have any reservations about it.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess during recruiting,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: I had thought that Cody Green and Coleman Brusa were,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: they were the equivalent of your first round picks.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where Ramzick Fruin is somebody who is in a decidedly different category.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was someone who they've been really excited and encouraged by pretty much ever
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: since he got on campus.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, they were very high on him in recruiting, too.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think because he committed to UCLA, you kind of sorted him into a different bucket.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they got... And obviously, like, Cody Green was committed to Oregon for a time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: But Cody Green and Derek Coleman-Brusa committed,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: what, within 10 days of each other or something like that in the spring.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were...
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's always been easy to kind of group them together that way.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they sort of set the foundation.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Ramzac commits to UCLA.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: a local kid who commits to a UCLA staff that was like,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of in a tenuous situation going into the season.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: You don't cross him off the list mentally.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not set in stone.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's not even the only guy,
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: the only local kid who committed to UCLA who wound up at Washington in this class,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: David Schwarzel did the same thing.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it was different, right?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like, oh, okay, well, they missed on him.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: But they always really wanted him.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: he was another guy Jed Fish talked about on signing day as believing that like,
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: hey, we think that guy's gonna be a really, really good player here.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: as a three-star recruit for part of his recruitment,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Which is really interesting,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: like same high school as Zadrius Rani Saleh,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: where Zadrius Rani Saleh is a four star and the top ranked player in the state.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's because their offer sheets were maybe a little bit different
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: or what,
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: but like, I don't, I don't know how the evaluation wound up lower on Ramzak Fruin.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you watch his high school film, it's, it's pretty nuts.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Dropped into coverage a lot, played all over the place.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sacks, he's the team's top receiver too.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just a do it all athlete.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wound up being a four-star in the composite, I think, by the end of the cycle.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: But always someone they were pretty high on.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, I mean, he's just been too good.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he has not done anything on the field to suggest he shouldn't,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: like, play every snap he can handle this year.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would have said probably, like, Jacob Manu was their best player in the spring.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, one through 15, you know, practice one through 15.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that anybody showed up quite as much as he did.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Ramzak Fruin was not far behind.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think there's been a better defensive player this training camp than Ramzak Fruin.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's times where when I proofread a story from practice and I didn't mention him,
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh...
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Should I have, like, oh, he did have a sack or two.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it just kind of blends into the,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: because it's just like, oh, yeah, well,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: he's just going to get, he's just going to get after the quarterback all the time.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's just like a normal, that's just sort of been the default in training camp.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So once they go against different teams and different tackles and Big Ten opponents,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: like, you know, we'll see if he brings it then.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But they are, they are as high on him as can be.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing, too, like, the best ability is availability.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: He has been,
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: he's been making all these plays and he's been this good at practice as a,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I assume he's 18,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: maybe he's still 17,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: but he's a freshman,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: a first year college football player who is He got better from spring
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: to training camp.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: He's been fully healthy the whole time.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, yeah, I mean,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: it's just been A-plus across the board for everything you look for for a guy
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: who can...
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, like,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've seen a freshman pass rusher like him before,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: which you might say, whoa, that's...
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a high bar,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: but that's sort of in the position that's been tough for them to really develop over
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: the years.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: They've had a few here and there.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Braylon Trice was a very good player.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: ZTF made some big plays for them.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of that, like,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: game-wrecker,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: superstar at that position,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: you're really going back to Haole Kikaha, and that's been 12 years now.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so, talking about, like,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: an up-and-coming player doing that,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: a young player,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: a freshman, yeah,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that they've had someone in year one come in and just shoot to the top
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: of the depth chart like this.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Should it give me pause at all as, uh,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: About two true freshmen starting on the defensive line of the Washington Huskies.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of unfair to phrase it that way because it depends on who the freshmen are always.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: But for all the emphasis that's been placed on the Big Ten,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: the style of play, my mind does immediately go there.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are the Huskies going to wind up being a little light in the cakes up front
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: with two true freshmen playing on their defensive line?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's just about the last term I'd use to describe Derek Holman-Brusa,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: taking a look at him.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Now, just having the size and the strength is but one component.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot more that goes into playing that position as a true freshman.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, look, there's a TBD factor on both those guys.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know until you know, right?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was having this discussion with some friends the other day about like,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: do you love that half your front four has never played college football before?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some real concerns there.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: What I would say is they're not starting those two guys because there's nothing else.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in a world where Yeah, like, ah, Derek Coleman Bruce is just not ready yet.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: this is, yeah,
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: there's some, boy,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: you see the promise,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: you see the potential,
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: you see the athleticism and the strength,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: but man,
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: there's just,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: you start playing and there's just too many reps where he's making some
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: of those mistakes that,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: we can't have a freshman making right now up front or,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Same deal with Ramzak or same deal with Cody Green on the other side of the line.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: They have other players they can play there who have,
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: if Derek Coleman-Brusa didn't exist and you're just talking
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: about your portal additions of Derek Conley and Deshaun Watts and Kai McClendon,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: assuming that he does come back healthy and practice this week as has been expected,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: we'll see you later this afternoon.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe Taitai Weunglele, who knows?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: TBD and all that right now.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Omar Khan's been getting more reps. You kind of know what you have in Elenius Davis.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what you have in Isaiah Ward.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Russell Davis is healthy again.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Devin Hyde has been back and practicing fully healthy.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Logan George has made some plays.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: oh man, nobody's really risen to the top here, so let's give the freshman a chance.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: The freshman's just been too good.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's been too good to keep off the field.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Again, if Ramzak Fruin didn't exist,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: you'd be You'd be talking about Jacob Lane has had a great camp as a senior,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: and you'd be looking at him as sort of the stalwart,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: and then hoping Isaiah Ward can stay healthy,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: but if he doesn't, well, like,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: you got Russell Davis back healthy for the first time,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: still some concern there Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: will you still live with some mental errors from time to time where,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: hey, this is still the best player at this position.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is still the best option at this position, but he is a freshman.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just,
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to have to live with,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: if not a missed assignment,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: then Maybe just not quite getting the call right or not playing the scheme or
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: the technique exactly right.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: But if that becomes so much of an issue
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: where you just can't trust these guys anymore,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: you throw Darren Conley in there,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: you throw Isaiah Ward in there,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: throw Russell Davis in there, throw Deshaun Watson there.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: They have guys.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's the right way to look at it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you're there to talk some sense into me because it's, hey,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: you've got a deeper pool of players up there than you've ever had before,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: and this guy's played his way to the top.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly how you build a stronger platform.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: If Derek Coleman-Brusa and Ramzak-Fruin are both as good as they think they are and
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: as good as they've looked so far,
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: that's a great thing for Washington Huskies football.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be a great thing, though,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: for the next two or three years,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: and not just for 2026,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: because you are not always going to be able to recruit a Derek Coleman-Brusa and
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: a Ramzak-Fruin to be day one starters on your defensive front in the Big Ten.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's probably the biggest...
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: They've recruited really good players on the defensive front of the 2027 class.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: John Iwane and Tevita Nonu look awesome.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you want to get to a point where in year three of the program,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: the star freshman you've signed, who you've really invested in...
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are just starting out and not at a place where, okay,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: you've got, you got a great D tackle, a great edge rusher, a great left tackle.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just them,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: by the way,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Jaron Jones,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: a corner has looked really good,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: but once Dylan Robinson's back,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: like he's, you know, maybe more of a six DB, he'll play a lot.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: You need him, but maybe, maybe not necessarily like a true starter right away.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Jordan Clay is another receiver competing for time.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: You need those guys to still just be starting out, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And not just like, oh, this is, it's great that these freshmen are so good for the 2026 season.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: You got to be able to retain them at the end of the year.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think they need to be flashing the Ramzac fund on the scoreboard in between series
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: or after every sack.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: you want whole rest of the country seeing what this guy's doing and logging
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: that he's only a freshman doing this, so.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's the next layer, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's the modern twist on it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ten years ago, you'd feel like, oh man, we're set there.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And not that he can't transfer,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: but if you hit on a true freshman,
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: you can expect to have him for two more seasons at least.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there are different opportunities that open up now.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's...
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I do think,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: and this is something that I think, not only, Washington experienced it too, though.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: After the first year of DeBoer,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: of being able to,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's easier to fundraise or to up your war chest when you're building off
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: of success.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Indiana, in my mind, really shows that, of...
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Being able to say, hey, if we're going to sustain this, we've got to get people to donate more.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: We've got to generate more money.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's a much easier pitch than, hey, in order to be relevant, we have to up things.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's playing from a position of,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: in that way,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: help us defend what we built is better than, man,
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: we need to find a sugar daddy who's going to be able to do
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: for us what Cody Campbell's done for Texas Tech.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're talking about, like,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: retention points in Washington's favor with those three guys
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: in particular we've talked about, Cody Green's parents are at every practice.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Derek Coleman Bruce's parents are at every practice.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I sat behind Ramzak-Fruin's family,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: the mock game, all wearing custom Ramzak-Fruin jerseys with Fruin on the back.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Heck yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: So these are three,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: these are three local players with families who are local,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: who are very much taking advantage of the proximity and being able
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: to come watch him practice and obviously watch him play.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we've talked about before, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: The more sort of nebulous anecdotal advantages of recruiting locally
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: and having star players who are local.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just, you know, fans like it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's always going to be sort of a point in your favor.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: But there are now.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps some very real roster building and finance related advantages
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: to recruiting local as well.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not that, again,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: it's not going to allow you to pay a local player $100,000 when they've got
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: a $2 million offer on the table, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: It can't close that gap,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe it can close enough that if you're in the ballpark,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: then the hometown discount applies.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: I believe, is it Fruinware number 11 too?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: He is, yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: A rather illustrious number for a couple quarterbacks.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Tuya Sosopo, very memorably 11.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I believe Mark Brunel was also number 11.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then one of my college roommates had a number 11.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was a practice jersey, and it was from Elijah Qualls, which I always thought was awesome.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely loved it because people, nice Tuya jersey.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's Elijah Qualls.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'd forgotten Brunel was 11 at Washington because he played in the NFL for so long as 8.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've just got 8 in my head.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was a number 11.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely fantastic.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And look, of all the different positions in football, having an electric edge rusher is...
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is maybe the most game-changing?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you get a truly elite edge rusher,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: certainly in the NFL,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: like that's, I remember a GM in the league told me, those are very rare birds.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: You get that elite edge rusher.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's a very rare bird.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is such a valuable, valuable commodity.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And look,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Lawrence Taylor in that role,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: in some ways,
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: was as impactful as any player in football over the past 40 years in sort of
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: the schematic adjustment.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: He forced,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: like left tackles became as valuable as left tackles are in part because
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: of Lawrence Taylor.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm remembering now when we had Brandon Huffman on the show and kind of asked him
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: toward the end of that appearance for a player or two who,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know, maybe people aren't thinking about as much.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he brought up Ramzak as one of them and was like, he still thinks he can play safety.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we'll see him drop back a little bit.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: He could play.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: I do think he's the frame in the athleticism where I think there's a like...
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: About seven different positions you could play him at if you had seven of them.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know what that sounds like is Bruce Ervin, the Seahawks player.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: The Seahawks drafted him number 15 overall.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And he was a guy like that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: He played wide receiver in high school.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And just, I mean,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: even in a league, pretty much anybody who makes the NFL is a freaky, freaky athlete.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even in a freaky league like that,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: he was an outlier of really athletic among really athletic dudes.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's something else.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: The big questions going into camp were sort of like, wait, what's tailback going to look like?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And who's that X receiver going to be?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like Christian Moss has answered the bell at X receiver,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: which they foreshadowed not so subtly based on his summer performance and some
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: of his testing and timing stuff, it sounds like.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: He's a dude.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's a dude.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's looked the part.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's looked the part.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's made a lot of plays.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's also stayed healthy and seems to have that spot locked up.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's much question
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: or I really don't think there has been much question since the spring,
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: frankly, about who their number one running back would be.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're very high on Quade Carr.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Quaid Carr was the one healthy guy through all of spring.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's been the one healthy guy through training camp.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: He has been the most impressive player through training camp.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's starting to feel a little like there could be maybe more writing on him
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: than might have been expected just because like Jayden Lamar has made it back
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: and has looked good.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And there's been a couple of practices where I thought,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: okay, like this, this looks like a pretty solid duo here.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Lamar looks quick.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he's, he's huge, right?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's got big arms, big, strong guy.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think he'll be good in pass protection, third downs and all that.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: But like a few practices,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: there were both Quade Carr and Jayden Lamar look pretty good running the football.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then you get to the mock game and Jayden Lamar is not suited up.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: That could could just be a nagging short term thing.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, again,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: we'll get a look at Tuesday night's practice and these next few practices here
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: to get a better sense of like what is availability might be going forward.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, there there is at least some injury management going on there still.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Trey Cooley was more involved in the mock game than he had been probably
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: at any practice so far this camp.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a good sign for them for his progress.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Brian Bonner has also been healthy and I think has taken a step.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's gotten bigger.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: He looks better this camp than he did in the spring.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe he competes for some of those number two snaps.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's looking a little bit uncertain behind Quade Carr just from
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: an availability standpoint and who steps up and gets those number two carries.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's August 25th.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: They don't play until September 6th.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's possible that...
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in a week, the picture will be much clearer.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone will be available and they'll be fine.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I just,
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: like if they don't have Quade Carr and Jaden Lamar together,
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: it does feel like maybe a little bit more falls on Quade Carr
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: than might have been anticipated.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's also possible the season starts and he carries the ball and you think,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, I want that guy carrying the ball a whole bunch.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: He looks really good.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: As clear as I think RB1 is,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: the complete picture of that room, I don't know if we have that quite yet.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Is it fair to say that in depth, Trey Cooley is more of your...
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's played college football.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's a transfer from a lower division, but somebody who is physically developed.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's the guy that you feel more...
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Less uncertainty with, but Bonner's the guy with the bigger big play opportunity.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and Trey Cooley has played power for football.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: He was a four-star recruit,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: played at Louisville and Georgia Tech,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: but it's been a long time since he's played regularly.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: He missed all last year with a knee injury.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: He missed most of the year before at Georgia Tech after I think he got
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: a bad concussion on a special team's play early in the season and just kind
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: of never really got back from it.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe there's some rust to knock off there.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: He does, you know, like you said, he's got that sort of veteran presence.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: He's seen the game and felt the game before.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: He knows what's expected in certain situations.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, look, Brian Bonner was a top 100 recruit last year.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what his track times are, what his...
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: His game speed looks like from his highlight tape.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: For him, it's just a matter of putting on weight.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And can you be that sort of between the tackles guy and the Big Ten?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Can you finish runs?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can you take care of the ball?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: All the things you're looking for from a true freshman playing that position.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if going into spring,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: I necessarily,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: after seeing the first few practices and kind of seeing the pecking order there,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: that I would have expected him to be super involved this year.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm still not convinced.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: But once they lost Jordan Washington, that moved everybody up a spot.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, with their two veterans both kind of having...
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he does bring a different element that way.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Quake Carr is also, you know, he's in that fast, shifty mold as well.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's shown pretty good vision too.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the question with him is just, you know, along those lines, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's added a lot of weight.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know Jed Fish has said they've really emphasized like lower body strength with him.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Is he going to be a guy who's going to finish runs and find hidden yards and,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know, fall forward and all those sort of things.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I am wondering more and more if we'll see more of Brian Bonner this year
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: than was anticipated.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Onsu Sano has also got in there for, you know, he's huge.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: He had a good spring.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Could be more of a short yardage guy.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there are some different options there.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Jaden Lamar would be, without knowing for sure, like could be very minor, could be back soon.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't know yet.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a one position on the team that's like TBD right now.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: The opposite of that is inside linebacker on the other side.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say that's probably my biggest question of how are they going
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: to work playing time there and opportunities.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And look, if they have creative ideas on how to get those guys...
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of rotation through non-conference play,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: at least,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: especially like with Manu and Rainy Saleh
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: and Alexander all like nursing what sounds like relatively minor injuries right now.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they're all good to go,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: once Brian Odom said,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: hey, if we played a game this weekend, they'd all be ready to go.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they are ready to go by September 6th,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: which is no indication they won't be,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: maybe that's one way you can kind of lessen the load on all of them.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: this is a very deep group of players who you can go pretty deep with guys you trust
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: to I don't know that there will be a ton of snaps for him,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: but as those guys do get healthier,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: maybe you do try to limit the pitch count a little bit for each of them.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Where, you know,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: you wouldn't necessarily just set that as your objective if you weren't so deep,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: but because you can go to two backups there who have starting experience and who
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: in their own right could be very, very good players.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's how you sort of spread it around and try to keep those guys fresh early on.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think as assuming full health for everybody and as the season develops,
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: like I can't see them ever taking Jacob Manu off the field.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe a series here or there.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you know,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: is he working through a minor tweak,
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: something here or there,
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: where nothing that's going to keep him off the field,
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: but you're good enough that you've got an opportunity to keep him fresh.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just don't think that's a guy you want standing on the sideline a whole lot.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the same is true of X-Ray Alexander and Zadrius Rainey Saleh,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: but I would kind of see those guys sharing snaps a little bit more.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Depending who you're playing against,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: you could take the nickel off the field and play all three.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say this.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: That is the exact opposite trend that college football has gone on.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which is like that you have five DBs on the field most of the time to take a DB off
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: the field to put a potentially a fourth linebacker or an additional linebacker
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: in there is not it.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the way Zadrius Rainey-Saleh looked last year dropping into coverage, it makes it...
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he looked really good.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the size and the speed that he moves at...
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And, I mean,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Seattle's kind of shown,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: the Seahawks have kind of shown that you can play a bigger nickel package
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: and force Matt.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got a guy that can cover that is bigger,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: you can create a huge advantage if you can play a bigger nickel defense.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or you could just drop Ramzak back to safety.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking he might maybe have him run the rock a little bit.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: All right, Christian, you're going to be presented with a choice here.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do we want to talk...
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Fifth-year eligibility concerns,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: questions in college football, or a conversation with IP McFarland right now?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's hit the fifth-year thing first, because it'll be quick.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sure?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are you positive?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm positive.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you really want to get on your soapbox, because I do not care.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is the most, like, should they be allowed to play?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Should they not?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: All they're pros, they're...
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, like this is not a floodgate issue.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is sort of a one time like the NCAA decided we're going to give,
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know, we're going to give everybody five years of eligibility.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody who has eligibility left will be part of the new rule and get an extra year.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's, you know, the Landon Hatchets, the Alex McLaughlins, the extra Alexanders.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about that,
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: but not players who were true fourth year seniors last year
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: who exhausted their eligibility under the old rules.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: This is the only class this is going to apply to.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a one-time thing.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of think they should have just let them, but whatever.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: For some reason, they decided it was really important that they draw the line there.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: However this resolves, it's over.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just this year.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's just this offseason.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: I guess maybe there's some danger around the precedent
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: of allowing anybody who's signed a pro contract to return to school.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And also just the general idea of the NCAA being allowed to enforce its rules,
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: however it has set them.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I could not possibly care less.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I could not possibly care less if a player...
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Gets told no,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: you can't because you signed a pro contractor because you spent some time on
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: an NFL roster because you declared for the NFL draft and didn't pull your name out.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I equally don't care if they tell those players,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: actually, you can come back and play because you get a fifth year.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because he was in a training camp for a day and a half because he had no choice
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: because his eligibility ended.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's been getting NFL-style nutrition, though, Christian.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: He got a six-figure signing bonus as an undrafted rookie.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't blame at all the coaches who are like, what are we doing?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do this.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, okay.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you were going to say I don't
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: blame the coaches who are trying
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: to take full advantage of this.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with everything you just said.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bunch who are trying to do
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: both, though.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's a bunch who are trying to do both.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like, then don't take the kid.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Be the one.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: If this is the way we're doing things, then yeah, you don't have enough good players.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have not enjoyed a press conference as much
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: as I enjoyed Lane Kiffin's can't stand still, awkwardly swing in his arms.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Todd Bunkin doesn't even have my phone number.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what he's talking about.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile,
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: he's trying to get a guy that played for him at Ole Miss,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: who signed with Cleveland, to end up with him at LSU.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, you've got some hometown, home state judges involved.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't disagree with anything you said about how I feel.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel this is some sort of crisis.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's deeply funny.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: I find it truly, truly comical.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: The level of hand-wringing that it's inspired by people who say,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: this just shows you that the system is broken.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Which, anyone who's saying that, they've probably said it six or seven times previously.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is it more broken now than the last time you said it was broken?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's like really broken now?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's irredeemably broken?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other side is the disingenuous Lane Kiffin who...
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think when all is said and done,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: the greatest PR,
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mad Men-like performance of any sort of image overhaul was what happened
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: to Lane Kiffin the last year and a half at Ole Miss.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because watching him now, I just flashback vividly to, that's why everybody hates this guy.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: What we're seeing right now is why everybody hates him.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: People who've worked with him,
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: people who've worked around him, people who've competed against him.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there's part of me that is really going to enjoy watching how all of
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: that plays out in the SEC.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure if I can recall...
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: A person as prominent as he is in football who is as smarmy as he is.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's the rich kid who yells at the valet for scratching his dad's Escalade kind
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: of energy that you just really want smarmy.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he's unapologetic about it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: He does nothing to hide that except for like the last year and a half at Ole Miss
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: when somehow he became quote unquote likable because he's not.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: He is not a likable person.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the Big Ten is reportedly not going to allow
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: players who signed with pro teams
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: to come back and play in college offensively.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta get some clarity on what that means for someone like Grady Gross,
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: who was in a minicamp.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but he probably didn't sign a contract.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: He probably got paid while he was there.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I've read all those things as when you sign a contract with a signing bonus.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like when they actually...
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's a contract for your services for the upcoming season.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, guys who appear in a minicamp are not doing that.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: if you declared,
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: did anybody who prepared for a pro career declare for the NFL draft?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have to declare if you're not an underclassman?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think you're automatically in.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you're automatically in.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Those guys didn't practice the day that the appeals court granted a stay of
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: that Colorado judge's injunction.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: But then they did suit up and were there for the mock game,
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: but didn't participate in it, didn't take reps.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Jed Fish said after, like, well, they can practice with us.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so if those guys choose to practice with us,
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: they'll be practicing with us, and then we'll just kind of figure it out.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that all feels still very much up in the air.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: If a judge or the NCAA says they can or they can't, I really don't feel strongly either way.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is the ultimate wake me when it's over issue, frankly.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, the system been broken, man.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is just, it's a consequence of trying to draw the line.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: The courts will sort it out.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking with somebody the other day like,
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: What people can't get their head around is that there is a difference
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: between common sense and the letter of the law.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: And common sense might say like, well, yeah, I mean,
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: if you signed a pro contract,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: why should you be allowed to return and play college sports?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's never been a thing.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's always been against the rules.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's like no one has ever been allowed to do that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: The letter of the law might say, well, why?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it just arbitrarily so that if you stop playing in this league and sign
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: a contract with another league,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: you just shouldn't be able to come back to play in this league?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: And also,
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: why is it that these players who would now be exercising their fifth year
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: of eligibility can't do that,
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: but everyone else who's still playing will be able to do that?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: Legally, what is the legal basis for that?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then it comes down to, well, does the NCAA have a right to make and enforce its own rules?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: In certain cases, it has.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: In many cases, it has not been able to.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I like whatever, whatever.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just just figure it out.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: The season starts in 12 days.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: One of my favorite parts of this because I've loved thinking about this and kind
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: of working through it.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: One of my favorite parts about it is the very clear.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Example of how cost-controlled pro football players are early in their careers.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like the fact that it is probably several multiples times more lucrative for
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: a player to stay in college for his fifth year as a senior than it is to,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: even if you were to make a team as an undrafted rookie.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if we're speaking like a seventh round pick,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: It shows sort of this weird part of how the NFL economy works,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: which essentially your first four years,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: unless you're a top 10 pick, are at a significant discount.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you're playing to get through those, to get to your big point.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: And now college is the exact opposite, where it is unfettered capitalism.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you get this strange convergence of...
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you're good enough to have a long NFL career,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: it is in your best interest to start that clock as soon as possible because
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: if you make it to a fifth season, it's incredibly lucrative.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: However,
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: there's a whole bunch of people that might be able to make an NFL team for one
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: or two years who are their economic best decision is to stay in college and play for
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: as long as they possibly can.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Especially now that all of the gloves,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: all of the rules, there's nothing that exists to curb your ability to make money.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a fascinating convergence of two fundamentally wrecked economic systems.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: What's Ian got for us?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Our conversation this week with IP McFarland.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Morning, guys.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hard to believe, but it's week zero.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, week zero and one this year are truly awful.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think the best game collectively is, who's Louisville playing?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Ole Miss?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just straight up garbage, but we've got football to watch.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's time for our annual predictions,
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: which lead to an award that never gets paid and calculations that are never made.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think me going heavy on Indiana and
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: fading Oregon's ability to advance too far in
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: the playoff probably put me on top, though I do think I picked Alabama.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to pick, we're going to see.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Pick the four major conferences.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Your national champion will hold Washington predictions for next week.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess a Heisman Trophy winner?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going Ohio State, Georgia, but I think Bama has the best record in the regular season.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Texas Tech and Miami,
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: pretty chalky,
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: but I am picking Ohio State over Alabama in the National Championship game.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: My...
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Heisman Trophy winner, man, I am chalky as can be, is Aeneas Williams from Notre Dame.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think for the first time in a while,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: a running back takes the award because I think there are so many quarterbacks,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to split the vote.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's watch some football.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's about 17,000 degrees in Southern California,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: so I need all the reasons to get into air conditioning that I can get.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you're well, guys.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good week.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Go Dawgs.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a final four for us?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to put some more thought into it.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: Off the top of my head.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm going to put some more thought into it.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think I'm going to go with a crazy one.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm definitely not putting Alabama
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: in there.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Did you see Austin Mack?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: Not going to be their starting quarterback?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not all that surprising.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not because of him, but Keelan Russell was the number one player in the country, right?
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: He was.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: if you really wanted to twist this from like a Washington perspective,
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: it's like, Hey man, you had it all coming to play for the staff at UW.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Austin Mack was going to be their guy, right?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: They were really high on him.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: They brought in Will Rogers to kind of be the bridge, and then he was going to take over.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like this couldn't happen at Washington.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: But when you go to Alabama with that staff,
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: now you're going to be competing against the caliber of quarterback
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: that Alabama can bring in.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Austin Mack might still be a really good player.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: But like if you think Keelan Russell could be a superstar,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Austin Mack will be starting for probably a pretty good program next year
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: and probably will be getting paid pretty well to do so.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: So still got a good amount of college football in front of him.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it just shows, you know, it's not really his fault, right?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like the staff that is all in on you, that you're all in on, leaves.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Can't hang around and wait and see who gets hired and can be like,
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: was he going to compete against DeMond Williams?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: Especially not if the guy who leaves is willing to take you to Alabama.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, hey, I don't want to think or pontificate for him.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he's all good.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he's all good.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of knew this was coming and is loving it at Alabama and would love to start,
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: but it's how it goes and we'll explore his options come the offseason.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, man, that's,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: you go to the best program you can go to,
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: they're going to keep bringing in really, really good players.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think Ian's pick about a running back for the Heisman?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I could see it.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to go with Jeremiah Smith, I think.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, just like Julian Sane was a finalist last year.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you can never go wrong either with like, oh,
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: the starting quarterback of the number one team,
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: the starting quarterback of the best team.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: So like, I think Dante Moore should be up there.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you think Oregon's going to be pretty good,
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know, Arch Manning probably doesn't need to be as good as everyone else to win.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: He just needs to be close.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I also don't think he's been this massive underachiever the way
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: that some people have talked about.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think the hype around him was so much that there was no way he could live up
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: to it, and he did struggle early last year, but wound up, I think, playing okay.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Texas is also really good.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's another factor.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Got a great team around him.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'd probably also go with a chalky Final Four.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think Ohio State and Oregon will both be there.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think Notre Dame's got a great shot.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be a lot easier to pick the CFP Final Four if the CFP were still
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: a four-team playoff because then you really are basically just picking off
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: a regular season results.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: Picking the Final Four now is like, well, we don't know what the matchups are going to be.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: In the round of 12 and the round of 8.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: But those 3 plus, I think I'd throw Texas in there.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, quite chalky.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'll put Georgia in there.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to put Texas.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say Ohio State.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll say Washington.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: You and Brett McMurphy.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Washington's going to be in there.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: DeMond Williams is going to win the Heisman.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: What are his odds?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: Pandering.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: Pandering.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Blatant pandering.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of odds can you get on DeMond Williams Jr. right now?
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's got to be.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is it 50 to 1?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: 100 to 1?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: 150 to 1?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Bet MGM has them at plus 5,000.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's plus 5,000 is right about 50 to 1, right?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yes.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: $100 bet.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: If I was going to do a non-Homer pick,
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: if I was going to take a non-Homer pick,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: I would go, I think the best value pick is Gunnar Stockton.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: The reason Aeneas Williams,
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: like I could see that happening, but CJ Carr is on that team and has a lot of burn.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: Dante Moore is a pretty good pick.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think Dante Moore has a better shot of winning it than Arch Manning does.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: If only because if Oregon gets there, like there's...
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Arch has some haters no matter what.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think I could see Dante Moore...
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: I could see a situation where Dante Moore wins the Heisman.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's really hard for me to see that with Arch Manning.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Washington is plus 3,000 to win the Big Ten.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: Plus 500 to make the playoff.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Minus 700 if you wanted to fade Danny on this.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Fading teams is an underrated, satisfying thing.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say the non-Homer pick will be Gunnar Stockton for Heisman.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: If it was possible for me to,
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: if it was possible, if I could do it without hating myself, I would say Dante Moore.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: But it's impossible for me to do that without hating myself.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the real discussion.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Can Washington make the playoff without DeMond Williams Jr. being a Heisman contender?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think we accept that the strength of this team will be its defense,
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: but that doesn't need to be an indictment of its offense.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: It can just be that they have a great defense and DeMond Williams Jr. plays really well.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I don't think so.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, if they are going to make the playoffs, DeMond Williams will be a finalist.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: They had to go undefeated and be the number two team in the country
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: for their quarterback to be the runner up in 2023.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which is an interesting conversation to be had because statistically,
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they had a lot of close games and there were a lot of games.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in retrospect, I do think Penix was playing through some stuff that year.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: But there were some games where he didn't look great.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: If they weren't undefeated, I don't think he would have been there.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: There were a handful of games where they won and you thought, eh, that did not help his case.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Arizona State did not help his case.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly the game I was thinking of.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't great in the Apple Cup.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, by that time it was steel, though.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the big marquee...
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like USC.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: He was.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: He bounced back and had a great Pac-12 championship game.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: He was very good against USC,
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: but didn't quite have like the counting stats because Dylan Johnson went nuts
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: and they ran the ball like crazy on that really bad defense.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was like, that was kind of his chance.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was his like, okay,
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Penix Jr.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: in undefeated Washington against reigning Heisman winner Caleb Williams at USC.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Huge game for Washington generally for playoff purposes and everything,
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: but also like that was a Heisman opportunity.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought he met the moment.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: He rose to the level.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: He had, I mean,
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: you think about one play from that game,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: and I bet you're thinking about the touchdown pass to Devin Colt on 3rd and 18.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: That was such an insane catch.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: He had a couple other throws in that game too that were just like...
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Crazy.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember how fun that game was?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: Caleb Williams getting chased out of bounds and you've got the Washingtons,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember his name,
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: the member of the defensive coaching staff,
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: who's kind of like slapping him on the helmet in encouragement of how good.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was a really fun football game.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: I, not like I hadn't watched Caleb Williams play before,
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: but that was my only time seeing him in person.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: I came away from that game like, oh my God, how do they not score on every possession?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: He was unreal.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was unreal in that game.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: They had him sacked on,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think, a fourth and one, and he just spins out of it and throws a touchdown pass.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was unbelievable.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: What's wild is he's that way in the NFL, too.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not a Caleb Williams believer in the NFL.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's way too seat of the pants.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: But the flip side is, yeah, man, he's been an average quarterback for the first three quarters.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: And in the fourth quarter,
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: he just goes nuts and makes those sort of plays,
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: like the throw in overtime to get it to overtime in the divisional round.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: He's a gifted player.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway,
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: if you watch that game,
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know Panix played very well,
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: but didn't end up throwing for like a ton of yards because Dylan Johnson ran for 256
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: and they didn't need to like throw the ball a ton.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: How did Culp make that catch?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was basically just...
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: The higher the degree of difficulty, the more likely it was that Devin Culp was going to...
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: The one against Arizona, too, to convert a third down.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: He made some absolute circus catches, but Panix, you know...
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nine quarterbacks out of ten are sacked on that play straight away,
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: and he just evaded it, rolled up.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking, oh, what a great play by Penix to avoid a sack and throw the ball away here.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that would have been a plus play, given the circumstance.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: And instead, he puts it in the only place.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it wasn't a risky throw.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it only placed his teammate could have caught it.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that teammate made just an insanely strong catch.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the best catch I've ever seen, certainly.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the strongest catches I've ever seen just because
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: of how much hand strength it took to not lose that ball.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: Good play.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I just thought of right now, Christian?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought of you dutifully scrolling in your reporter's notebook.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: As Romo Dunze, like with his hands spread wide, one of the coldest photos I've ever seen.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: And Christian Caple,
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: the paragon of professionalism,
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: standing there scribbling, making the observation in his notebook.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just glad that I am visible on the TV copy of that play as proof
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: that I was watching the play.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: That I did watch the play unfold.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was so crazy.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: I...
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the plays I remember most clearly of as soon as it went off and seeing
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: where it was going to go and understanding because I was basically up from
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: where you were.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was probably up like 20, 25 rows in that deck.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: But in that same part of the stadium,
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: seeing him lined up one-on-one and knowing what was going to happen and
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: then how he made that catch was, yeah, I just got goosebumps even thinking about it.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Forget being patient.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was like before that.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: And even after that,
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, God, it would have been nice if they would have run one more play.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you're like, yeah, man, you get that.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have to take it every time.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: You have to take that every time because it's a touchdown.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter how much time.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: But man, that was just it was a great game.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: Feels like a long time ago.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's three years, but a lifetime ago.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: Some things have happened.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll let you know what practice looks like this evening or last evening
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: if you're listening to this on Wednesday on the audio version.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, we're getting close to it, man.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: One more week.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to go.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to you next week.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: Peace.