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013 - Katherine of Aragon - The True Queen · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave Media podcast. Hi, and welcome
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Speaker 1: back to Who Did What Now? The History podcast with
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Speaker 1: me your host, Katie Charlewood, podcast addict and reader of books.
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Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome if you're new, and welcome back
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Speaker 1: if you're not. So I set myself a little challenge
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Speaker 1: because it is Women's History Month in the UK, so
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Speaker 1: I thought, why not bite the bullet and actually talk
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Speaker 1: about the six Tutor Queens, the six wives of Henry
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Speaker 1: the Eighth? So are you ready for this one? Right?
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Speaker 1: So that means you're going to get more episodes this month,
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Speaker 1: because it is March. We're already a couple of days
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Speaker 1: into March, and we are going to We're gonna just
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Speaker 1: go through them all. Each queen is going to have
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Speaker 1: their own episode, because what I found usually with when
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Speaker 1: it comes to the Six Ways of Henry Eighth is
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Speaker 1: that Katherine of Argon gets an episode and Berlin gets
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Speaker 1: an episode, and then the rest of them are gonna
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Speaker 1: get lumped together. And I'm like, okay, why doesn't everyone
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Speaker 1: get equo billing. I can understand because as far as
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Speaker 1: I'm concerned, they all deserve to have their stories told,
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Speaker 1: and that's what I'm gonna do. So I'm gonna I'm
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Speaker 1: gonna be doing double the work. It's fine, it's fine
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Speaker 1: to worry about it. It's gonna be okay. So without
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Speaker 1: further we do. We've got a lot to go through.
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Speaker 1: So let's just jump right into it. And I know
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Speaker 1: what you're thinking, fact me, damn it? Why will I
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Speaker 1: will fact you? So sources going to do some sources.
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Speaker 1: We have Captain of Argon, Henry's Spanish Queen by Gills Trimolette,
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Speaker 1: The Six Wives of Henry the Eighth by Alison weare then,
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Speaker 1: of course we have History dot com, Biography dot com,
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Speaker 1: and Britannica dot com. So let's talk about Catalina. So
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Speaker 1: fun fact, her name wasn't initially Catherine, it was actually
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Speaker 1: cat It was only when she moved to England that
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Speaker 1: she had to adopt an English name. This is something
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Speaker 1: that generally royal ladies did, So if you moved another country,
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Speaker 1: you would have to adopt the customs and nature of
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Speaker 1: that country. So Catalina. Her parents were Queen Isabella of
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Speaker 1: Castile and King Ferdinand of Aragon. Queen Isabella is sort
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Speaker 1: of known as as a warrior queen and she aligned
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Speaker 1: herself with Ferdinand in order for them to create Spain,
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Speaker 1: so they had a united Spain. And these two are
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Speaker 1: like a proper power couple. See, these are the same
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Speaker 1: people who sent Columbus to America and also instigated and
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Speaker 1: ran and also were the heads of the Tribunal of
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Speaker 1: the Holy Office of the Inquisition, otherwise known as the
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Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition. So they were very very religious, shall we say. So.
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Speaker 1: Catalina is born in fourteen eighty five, and so her
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Speaker 1: parents are like, we need to get like an Anglo
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Speaker 1: Spanish alliance going on. So what they do is they
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Speaker 1: betrothed the Infanta Catalina with King Henry, the seventh eldest son,
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Speaker 1: Prince Arthur, when she was like three years old. So
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Speaker 1: all of Ferdinand and Isabella's children were highly educated, and
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Speaker 1: Catherine was one of the higher educated women of the day. Generally,
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Speaker 1: with the nobility, what they would do is their children
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Speaker 1: would go and be fostered by, you know, other nobles
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Speaker 1: and other royals. It was a way of you know,
3:29
Speaker 1: building trust and ensuring like feelty and you know, building alliances.
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Speaker 1: But Ferdinand and Isabella were different. They kept their children
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Speaker 1: with them, so when they went into battle, they brought
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Speaker 1: the children with them. They didn't like they didn't bring
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Speaker 1: the children into battle like they weren't they give them
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Speaker 1: a tiny little dark and but like Stabby stab No,
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Speaker 1: they they brought them with them when they toured. So
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Speaker 1: Katherine was one of the most educated princesses in Europe.
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Speaker 1: This like famous cleric Alessandro Geraldini was her tuner. She
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Speaker 1: was multi lingual. She spoke Spanish and Latin and French
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Speaker 1: and Greek. Not only this, she was skilled in arithmetic,
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Speaker 1: classic literature, genealogy, history, philosophy, law and theology. Again, her
4:14
Speaker 1: parents ran the bloody Spanish Inquisition, and so it's not
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Speaker 1: surprising that that she was going to be so well
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Speaker 1: versed in church law. But the education did not stop there.
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Speaker 1: She had lessons in courting, cunning, and state craft. So
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Speaker 1: she was being educated to be a ruler, to be
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Speaker 1: a leader, and not to be merely a princess. So yeah,
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Speaker 1: Prince of Wales Arthur and the Infantina Carlina, they are engaged, right,
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Speaker 1: So Catherine and him are engaged. Yeah, they're both like
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Speaker 1: three years old. I think at that point, even during
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Speaker 1: the Renaissance, they thought three is a bit young to
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Speaker 1: get married. Let's not do that, so they did the
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Speaker 1: reasonable thing and waited for them to turn fifteen. Case, sure,
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Speaker 1: as long as she's menstruating, it's time to marry. Whatever.
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Speaker 1: Really funny, like, during all this time, while she's you know,
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Speaker 1: learning all these languages, nobody thought maybe she should learn English,
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Speaker 1: and in England, nobody thought Arthur should learn Spanish, so
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Speaker 1: they would write letters to one another. So during their
5:11
Speaker 1: whole courtship, what twelve year engagement, they would write letters
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Speaker 1: to each other in Latin, you know, to get over
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Speaker 1: the English Spanish language barrier. So by the time they're
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Speaker 1: fifteen a meeting, they're like full of all of these
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Speaker 1: hormones and they've got crushes and everything else. But their
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Speaker 1: first meeting was an absolute shit show. So yeah, in
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Speaker 1: October fifteen oh one, she set to sale for England.
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Speaker 1: So Catherine and her entourage they are received at Dogmer's
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Speaker 1: Field in fifteen oh one with King Henry the seventh
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Speaker 1: and Prince Arthur in a greeting ceremony, which is just
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Speaker 1: how it was done. So basically, they're writing love letters
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Speaker 1: to one another in Latin, but when they start talking,
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Speaker 1: they realize they have different pronunciations. There are so different
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Speaker 1: they literally could not understand each other. So they get
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Speaker 1: married ten days later on the fourteenth November at the
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Speaker 1: Old Saint Paul's Cathedral, and it is big, it is
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Speaker 1: the event, it is lavish. The royal wedding was such
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Speaker 1: a massive celebration, and Prince Arthur even says before the wedding,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to be a true and loving husband. However,
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Speaker 1: as we know things are. I mean, he was true
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Speaker 1: until the end of his days. I think of it.
6:25
Speaker 1: Arthur is Arthur is actually generally he's not the healthiest
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Speaker 1: of people, you know, So it is like the fairy
6:32
Speaker 1: tale wedding. But anyway, the two of them, they go
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Speaker 1: to Ludlow Castle on the border of Just on the
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Speaker 1: border of Wales, and this sweating sickness is raging through
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Speaker 1: and they both catch it and they both become terribly,
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Speaker 1: terribly ill. So Catherine is bedridden, she is delirious, she
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Speaker 1: is close to death. She ends up spending days fighting
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Speaker 1: for her life, and when she survives, everyone is shot. However,
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Speaker 1: and she wakes up, she discovers that even though she
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Speaker 1: managed to pull through this wedding sickness, Arthur didn't. Her
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Speaker 1: husband was not so lucky at the age of sixteen.
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Speaker 1: She's now a widow. On the second of April fifteen
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Speaker 1: oh two, Arthur, Prince of Wales dies, and this is
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Speaker 1: bad enough, but then this also throws a spanner in
7:19
Speaker 1: the works when it comes to her existence in England.
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Speaker 1: So her position after the death of her husband it's
7:26
Speaker 1: a bit more precarious now. So here's the thing. Catherine
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Speaker 1: had a wedding dowary of two hundred thousand ducats. Half
7:35
Speaker 1: of it was paid before and half of it was
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Speaker 1: due to be paid after. However, Isabelle, Queen Isabella and Ferdinand,
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Speaker 1: along with King Henry. The marriage contract stated that if
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Speaker 1: Princess Catherine was to return home, she would also bring
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Speaker 1: her dowry back with her, and obviously King Henry the
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Speaker 1: Seventh is like, oh, oh, no, huh, because he doesn't
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Speaker 1: want I have to send that money back. On the
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Speaker 1: second of February fifteen oh three, Elizabeth of York dies,
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Speaker 1: So that's King Henry's wife. She is, yes, So on
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Speaker 1: the second of February fifteen oh three, she gives birth
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Speaker 1: to a daughter, who she names Catherine, but then the
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Speaker 1: baby dies a few days afterwards, and then Elizabeth dies
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Speaker 1: on the eleventh of February from a postpartum infection. And
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Speaker 1: also it's on her thirty seventh birthday. What's strange is
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Speaker 1: that generally with royals, so after come here and with
8:27
Speaker 1: the seventh it gets over his morning period, and he's like,
8:29
Speaker 1: I should really remarry, And then he thinks, oh, you
8:32
Speaker 1: know what, two birds one stone. If he marries Princess Katherine,
8:35
Speaker 1: first of all, doesn't have to go looking for a
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Speaker 1: new wife, doesn't have to like wait for her to
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Speaker 1: come across the CEO, and that that because she's already there.
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Speaker 1: And two means he doesn't have to send back those
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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand ducats. So King Ferdinand's like, I'm not
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Speaker 1: really comfortable with having my sixteen year old daughter Mary
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Speaker 1: a forty five year old man. So no. And it
8:54
Speaker 1: was also questioned regarding the legitimacy of their wedding, Like
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Speaker 1: so Henry thinks, you know what, super handy. If you're
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Speaker 1: not going to marry me, you can marry Henry Jinnyard.
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Speaker 1: There we go. That solves that problem. Okay, So canon
9:08
Speaker 1: law church law basically states that a man is forbidden
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Speaker 1: to marry his brother's widow. This is gonna come up
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Speaker 1: later as well, but however, canon law. Church law also
9:17
Speaker 1: states that an unconsummented marriage so they did if they
9:20
Speaker 1: didn't knock boots, if they were so, if they didn't shag,
9:23
Speaker 1: which they didn't generally because they were sick. See Arthur
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Speaker 1: was kind of sickly anyway, and they only share a
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Speaker 1: bed like seven times, so no one actually viewed the bedding.
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Speaker 1: It never happened. And with them being so young and inexperienced,
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Speaker 1: Church law says that unconsumpated marriages can be dissolved. Catherine
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Speaker 1: testifies that I think one of the statements was like
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Speaker 1: she is as true as the day she exited her
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Speaker 1: mother's womb or something, so basically, Pope Julie's the second
9:53
Speaker 1: has to grant a special dispensation to Henry and Catherine
9:58
Speaker 1: to basically state that you so like basically invalidating the
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Speaker 1: previous marriage. You have to remember, first of all, that
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Speaker 1: Catherine is five years older than Henry, so you know
10:07
Speaker 1: she wasn't about to marry an eleven year old, you
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Speaker 1: know what I mean, So like marrying a twelve year
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Speaker 1: old when you're seventeen probably not at the top of
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Speaker 1: your to do list, you know what I mean. And
10:17
Speaker 1: the edge difference is one reason why it took so
10:20
Speaker 1: long for them to actually get married, but another reason
10:24
Speaker 1: was King Ferdinand was really stingy and very slow in
10:29
Speaker 1: sending over the rest of her diwary. So basically Catherine
10:32
Speaker 1: is a prisoner in England. She was set up in
10:35
Speaker 1: Durham House in London, and effectively she has no financial support.
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Speaker 1: She's broke basically in this old drafty manner, and she
10:44
Speaker 1: has to not only support herself but also her ladies
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Speaker 1: in waiting because she's a fucking princess. But then so
10:50
Speaker 1: fifteen or five comes around, so I'm going to spare
10:53
Speaker 1: her falling out effectively, and they're like complaining that this
10:57
Speaker 1: marriage to Henry isn't going to happen, and Prince Head
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Speaker 1: and he's like, I'm fourteen now, I don't want to
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Speaker 1: marry this old chick.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. When Arthur died King Henry the seventh,
11:09
Speaker 1: he basically locks up Prince Henry. So he is being
11:13
Speaker 1: schooled alongside his sisters. He's under the tutelage of Margaret
11:17
Speaker 1: Beaufort and he's just kind of inside. So he's basically
11:22
Speaker 1: locked away like a princess would be. Because King Henry
11:27
Speaker 1: was so worried about anything happening to his spare air,
11:30
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So Henry's life being what
11:32
Speaker 1: it was, he was a very energetic, very excitable, very
11:37
Speaker 1: strong young man, and he was then caged suddenly and
11:42
Speaker 1: all this energy had nowhere to go. Like there's one
11:45
Speaker 1: of the theories going around that like if he'd been
11:48
Speaker 1: alive today, he would have been diagnosed with add just
11:51
Speaker 1: because of all the energy he had and how he
11:53
Speaker 1: didn't pay attention for or maybe he was just fucking bored.
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Speaker 1: And like we said, when he turns fourteen, he has
11:57
Speaker 1: some sense of agency when he found like it has
12:00
Speaker 1: chance of some agency for himself. He's like, no, I
12:03
Speaker 1: don't want to marry her. I don't want all my
12:05
Speaker 1: choices made for me. He's trying to retain that little
12:09
Speaker 1: bit of agency that he has, and you can't fault
12:12
Speaker 1: him for that, not at fourteen, you know. And he's like,
12:15
Speaker 1: I don't want to marry the Spanish princess. I don't
12:17
Speaker 1: want do it. Nah? Fuck that. So Catherine needs to
12:20
Speaker 1: stay in royal favor effectively, so her dad and Horror
12:23
Speaker 1: come up with this like fantastic idea instead of her
12:26
Speaker 1: being like a royal bride. She becomes the Spanish ambassador
12:31
Speaker 1: to England, which is pretty cool because that means she's
12:33
Speaker 1: the first female ambassador in Europe. It also meant that
12:36
Speaker 1: she had money, because if she was being paid to
12:39
Speaker 1: be an ambassador, she was actually gonna be able to
12:41
Speaker 1: keep herself and her ladies in waiting. So during this
12:44
Speaker 1: time where she's a prisoner, King Henry is an absolute
12:47
Speaker 1: dick to her. He tries to trick a manipulator, but
12:51
Speaker 1: shock horror, he underestimated her. Why because she's a woman.
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Speaker 1: So yes, after seven long years, so can't you hear me?
12:59
Speaker 1: This even dies in fifteen o nine, King Henry's like, Josh,
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Speaker 1: i was eighteenth birthday, and he's like, yep, cool, I'm king.
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Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna marry you. But then when you know,
13:13
Speaker 1: the kingship is thrust upon him, he realizes that he
13:17
Speaker 1: must marry. It wasn't a love match per se. It
13:21
Speaker 1: was very much England versus Spain, so royalty and the nobility.
13:28
Speaker 1: They were expected to marry for duty, for alliances. It's
13:32
Speaker 1: not so much a wedding of Henry and Catherine. It is, however,
13:36
Speaker 1: the wedding of England in Spain. I mean, when you
13:39
Speaker 1: think of it, who his mother was and then who
13:42
Speaker 1: his grandmother was, he was actually surrounded by strong willed women.
13:48
Speaker 1: But yes, when they get married, she is twenty three,
13:51
Speaker 1: he's seventeen eighteen, and the concept of marrying the more
13:56
Speaker 1: mature Catherine would somehow be appeal to him, you know,
14:01
Speaker 1: as a as a young man. However, their inexperience would
14:05
Speaker 1: be equally matched. And here's the thing about kings and queens,
14:08
Speaker 1: like they were expected to be chased before they were wet.
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Speaker 1: So they get married on the eleventh of June fifteen
14:14
Speaker 1: oh nine, and she becomes the Queen of England. So
14:18
Speaker 1: this wasn't the same sort of lavish, huge ceremony that
14:21
Speaker 1: she'd had with Arthur. It was a much more private
14:24
Speaker 1: affair on the twenty third of June fifteen oh nine,
14:26
Speaker 1: and on the following day, to show that they are
14:29
Speaker 1: a power couple, and they get crowned together in this
14:32
Speaker 1: huge ceremony, to show that they are, you know, the
14:35
Speaker 1: king and queen, that they are equal, to show that
14:37
Speaker 1: she's not second best, you know. So Catherine has been
14:41
Speaker 1: trained to be a queen all of her schooling, everything
14:44
Speaker 1: has led for her to rule, but she was also
14:46
Speaker 1: trained in the queenly ways. So when Henry has his
14:50
Speaker 1: court and he is doing as he pleases, and he's
14:54
Speaker 1: having the you know, the courtly games and partying and
14:56
Speaker 1: everything else, boasting away, chatting away, having a laugh, being
14:59
Speaker 1: one of them lads. Really, Catherine was always more reserved,
15:03
Speaker 1: more quiet, more contained, and the temper that she had
15:06
Speaker 1: when she was younger was rained in pretty sharpish. But
15:10
Speaker 1: that woman was fucking stubborn, and that's just who she was.
15:13
Speaker 1: She was strong willed, she was intelligent, and she was stubborn,
15:17
Speaker 1: but she was also contained and sober and somber, and
15:21
Speaker 1: she believed that God had put her in her place,
15:24
Speaker 1: in her rightful place as the Queen of England, which
15:28
Speaker 1: later on would be her undoing. So two months after
15:33
Speaker 1: they get married, Catherine's pregnant, and like most of her pregnancies,
15:38
Speaker 1: this was going to end in tragedy. She had six
15:41
Speaker 1: kids altogether. Princess Mary ends up being Queen Mary, the
15:45
Speaker 1: first of England. She's the only one to survive into adulthood.
15:49
Speaker 1: Kavin has two boys. They're both named Henry, Duke of Cornwall,
15:52
Speaker 1: but neither one of them actually lives more than a
15:55
Speaker 1: few months, and she is so desperate to provide the
15:58
Speaker 1: king with an air that a male heir. I should
16:01
Speaker 1: say that she goes on pilgrimages and visit shrines to
16:05
Speaker 1: pray to God to give her a healthy baby boy.
16:09
Speaker 1: Because Catherine is really devout. She is a devout Christian, like,
16:14
Speaker 1: she is hard core. So while she's dealing with still
16:18
Speaker 1: births and miscarriages and everything else, so Henry's started his affairs,
16:24
Speaker 1: and generally nobles did this. Kings were known to have mistresses.
16:28
Speaker 1: It was just a thing, right, And so at this
16:31
Speaker 1: point he's shagging Elizabeth or Anne Hastings. It's kind of
16:35
Speaker 1: a great area. Oh my god, I've got to say, Like,
16:38
Speaker 1: Catherine is a redhead beautiful. She's described as being as
16:43
Speaker 1: having like a cherrublack face, so it's sort of cute
16:46
Speaker 1: and roundish, and she's meant to be absolutely gorgeous, red hair,
16:51
Speaker 1: green eyes. Like people even say that she's so like that.
16:56
Speaker 1: She was just so ridiculously beautiful. It's like such a stunner.
16:59
Speaker 1: And Henry back in the day was apparently a nice
17:02
Speaker 1: piece of ass too, But good looks can only take
17:05
Speaker 1: you so far. So here's the thing about Henry the eighth.
17:08
Speaker 1: He liked wars. He liked wars. He was always in
17:12
Speaker 1: a battle of some kind. He seemed to really like wars.
17:15
Speaker 1: And that's what happened to a lot of his money,
17:16
Speaker 1: a lot of the Kingdom's money kind of went on
17:18
Speaker 1: to fighting wars. So he goes off on. So he's
17:22
Speaker 1: off on a campaign in France, and he basically makes
17:27
Speaker 1: her his region in fifteen thirteen, so and which gives
17:31
Speaker 1: her like this unprecedented political power. So yeah, so she
17:35
Speaker 1: is Catherine Regent of England, Governor of the Realm, and
17:39
Speaker 1: Captain general. So will Henry's off doing his thing. King
17:43
Speaker 1: James the fourth of Scotland, who by the way, is
17:45
Speaker 1: married to Margaret Tudor. That's right, Henry's sister over in Scotland.
17:50
Speaker 1: They're like, hey, the throne is empty, why don't we
17:53
Speaker 1: just go and go and take it for there. They
17:55
Speaker 1: didn't realize how quite how stubborn and clever she was,
17:59
Speaker 1: because this is Queen Isabella's daughter. She doesn't take no
18:03
Speaker 1: shit boys. So she responds to the Scottish threat, raised
18:07
Speaker 1: as an army in all the counties in the mainland,
18:09
Speaker 1: and then heads north, So in the Scotland fade England,
18:12
Speaker 1: she's like, you know what, fuck this for a game
18:14
Speaker 1: of soldiers, I'm going there. Also, in addition, furthermore, she's
18:18
Speaker 1: seven months pregnant at this time, so she gives these
18:22
Speaker 1: speeches and she boosts soldiers morale, she gets allies, she
18:27
Speaker 1: raises armies, she makes banners, she helps orchestrate the battle
18:32
Speaker 1: like she knows steapcraft. She knows what she's doing. So
18:36
Speaker 1: a lot of the time people say that, you know
18:38
Speaker 1: she was at the Battle of flaud and that she
18:39
Speaker 1: was in and she was like hacker and slashing and
18:41
Speaker 1: going like ful Boudica, But she wasn't She got as
18:44
Speaker 1: far as I think, either Buckingham or Buckingham. Sure, she
18:47
Speaker 1: basically makes it to Buckingham, which is only like sixty
18:49
Speaker 1: miles north of London, and then finds out that there
18:52
Speaker 1: was a victory. So after the Battle of Flauden and
18:54
Speaker 1: King James is killed and along with quite a lot
18:58
Speaker 1: of the Scottish nobility, Catherine shows just how terrifying she
19:03
Speaker 1: can be. She sends the betrn bloodied quote of King
19:08
Speaker 1: James the fourth of Scotland. She sends this to Henry
19:11
Speaker 1: and suggests that he use it as a banner for
19:15
Speaker 1: his battles over in France, which is which is a
19:18
Speaker 1: lot nicer than her previous idea, because what she initially
19:21
Speaker 1: wanted to do, she wanted to send the corpse of
19:24
Speaker 1: the Scottish king because she was like, like, this shows
19:28
Speaker 1: that you are not one to be trifled with. But
19:30
Speaker 1: then she quote unquote realized that Englishmen were too weak
19:35
Speaker 1: bellied to you know, deal with the transportation of a
19:40
Speaker 1: rotting corpse, a rotting noble corpse. A couple of days
19:44
Speaker 1: after the battle, she goes into premature labor and has
19:47
Speaker 1: another still birth. So in fifteen sixteen, Princess Mary is born,
19:52
Speaker 1: and Henry is such a dick and he basically tells
19:55
Speaker 1: her that because this one is a girl and is surviving,
20:00
Speaker 1: it means they've got a better chance for a healthy
20:02
Speaker 1: boy next time. I just Henry was not the sharpest
20:06
Speaker 1: sword in the wall. Was a So Henry gets another
20:10
Speaker 1: mistress and Bessie Blount, and Catherine is generally you know,
20:15
Speaker 1: accepting of his dalliances, but this one really made her angry.
20:21
Speaker 1: The affair with Bessie lasts three years and and Bessie
20:25
Speaker 1: gives birth to a healthy boy who they name Henry Fitzroy,
20:30
Speaker 1: which means like some of the king. So there's lots
20:32
Speaker 1: of theories as to why Catherine's pregnancies didn't really pan out.
20:35
Speaker 1: Some think she may have had a genetic condition. So
20:38
Speaker 1: there's a theory that Henry the eighth had a weird
20:42
Speaker 1: blood group anomaly McLeod syndrome, effectively a genetic disorder, and
20:46
Speaker 1: it's like specific to this killed blood group. The way
20:49
Speaker 1: it works is so if Henry and his partner's blood
20:53
Speaker 1: group was incompatible, it could be the reason for and
20:57
Speaker 1: this could be a reason why three of his wives
20:59
Speaker 1: had sut terrible reproductive issues and could also explain why
21:04
Speaker 1: he went kind of turns into a physically and mentally
21:07
Speaker 1: impaired tyrant. But then another theory is that Katherine suffered
21:12
Speaker 1: from anorexia. But then there's also the fact that during pregnancy,
21:16
Speaker 1: like it was expected to eat these sort of rich,
21:20
Speaker 1: heavy foods which were which generally are not very good
21:24
Speaker 1: for pregnancy, not usually the most nutritional stuff to eat.
21:27
Speaker 1: But yeah, so by the fifteen twenties, Catherine can no
21:32
Speaker 1: longer conceive. So as Katherin gets older and menopause hits
21:36
Speaker 1: you know, more kids isn't really an option. And in
21:39
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty two she hires Anne Boleyn as her lady
21:43
Speaker 1: in waiting and over the next three years things would
21:46
Speaker 1: get kind of intense. Like Catherine, Anne was smart, she
21:52
Speaker 1: was intelligent, and she absolutely refused to blink Henry. She
21:57
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. So she was eleven years younger than
22:00
Speaker 1: Henry and so she was primed. She was a lady
22:03
Speaker 1: in waiting for Queen Claude, who was deeply pious as
22:07
Speaker 1: was an. So Henry's starting to obsess over Anne, and
22:11
Speaker 1: he is doing everything he can to get rid of Catherine.
22:14
Speaker 1: As far as Henry is concerned, their union, like their
22:18
Speaker 1: marriage was cursed because he had broken canon law when
22:22
Speaker 1: he married his brother's widow, even though they got a
22:24
Speaker 1: dispensation from the Pope to say it was fine, so whatever.
22:27
Speaker 1: When he started chasing Anne to when you have to
22:29
Speaker 1: be married Anne, it was like eight years. Henry wants
22:32
Speaker 1: their marriage anuled right and it wasn't uncommon for royals
22:36
Speaker 1: to have their mad marriages dissolved. You see Kinglary the
22:39
Speaker 1: twelfth did it with Joan of Franz and she ends
22:41
Speaker 1: up Frans who ends up like joining an honorary, starting
22:44
Speaker 1: an honaree, running to a convent, or starting a convent.
22:46
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure, but that one. So Henry is
22:49
Speaker 1: a piece of ship. And he's like, listen, because Henry
22:52
Speaker 1: has this habit of he wants to erase the memory
22:55
Speaker 1: of his spouse, right, he just wants to do it.
22:57
Speaker 1: He wants to erase them from his life forever. So
22:59
Speaker 1: he's like, So he tries to convince Catherine to join
23:02
Speaker 1: a like, to take the annoment and to go join
23:05
Speaker 1: a convent like John did, and Catherine Catherine's smart. So
23:09
Speaker 1: Catherine responds with God never called me to a nunnery.
23:13
Speaker 1: I am the King's true and legitimate wife. The way
23:16
Speaker 1: royalty works is they have this concept of you say,
23:19
Speaker 1: in ancient Egypt as well, it is the divine right
23:22
Speaker 1: of kings, and they believe that they have been put
23:26
Speaker 1: there by God, that God has chosen them to rule.
23:31
Speaker 1: They are kings and queens as a result of God's will.
23:34
Speaker 1: And Catherine had the same belief. She believed that God
23:38
Speaker 1: had chosen her to be the Queen of England. That's
23:41
Speaker 1: why she was supposed to marry Arthur. That's why Arthur died.
23:44
Speaker 1: Everything has to have a purpose because because that's just
23:47
Speaker 1: how her belief system worked, which is why when she
23:50
Speaker 1: becomes so stubborn, when she is ousted and her estrangement happens,
23:56
Speaker 1: it is all the more daunting for Catherine. And as
24:00
Speaker 1: a result of Catherine's devout nature and stubbornness, and of
24:05
Speaker 1: course Henry being a fucking tool, the King's Great Matter
24:10
Speaker 1: comes into existence. So Catherine is actually really loved by
24:14
Speaker 1: the people of England and they think Anne, it's just
24:17
Speaker 1: this strumpet. So always English women flock to support her
24:21
Speaker 1: during the anoma of her marriage. They want to get
24:25
Speaker 1: on like that's what they want to do. It's so funny.
24:27
Speaker 1: So the Great Matter, he basically tries to convince, you know,
24:30
Speaker 1: the Pope to dissolve the marriage. So basically there's this trial.
24:35
Speaker 1: Henry states that he's basically basing it on this whole
24:38
Speaker 1: thing that the Bible passage says that their marriage was
24:40
Speaker 1: wrong in the eyes of God. The whole thing of
24:42
Speaker 1: like if a man marries his brother's widow, they will
24:45
Speaker 1: be childless, except they're not childless because like to him,
24:49
Speaker 1: a child is a son. Because Mary doesn't matter, and
24:52
Speaker 1: What does Catherine do at this trial? What does she do?
24:55
Speaker 1: She goes on her knees and tells him how she
24:59
Speaker 1: has been an obedient wife. And you know that she's
25:03
Speaker 1: always been a good, honest and true wife. You know
25:05
Speaker 1: that she's always supported him, so on and so forth.
25:08
Speaker 1: She just, oh, it was it's stellar, but it didn't work. Also,
25:15
Speaker 1: her nephew, Emperor Charles the fifth, was holding the pope hostage.
25:19
Speaker 1: So the Pope was like, ah, no, Henry, you're good,
25:22
Speaker 1: you're married, You're fine. Henry decides to leave the Catholic Church.
25:26
Speaker 1: So yeah, he you know, starts a reformation, puts himself
25:30
Speaker 1: as the head of the Church of England, separate from
25:32
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. You know, regular things you do. And
25:35
Speaker 1: Nulls is on marriage, by the way, and and just
25:39
Speaker 1: to show how much of a Pricky is, in July
25:42
Speaker 1: fifteen thirty one, he goes on a hunting trip and
25:46
Speaker 1: just doesn't come back. He leaves Catherine and Mary behind.
25:49
Speaker 1: He moves his court with him. He then decides to
25:52
Speaker 1: banish Catherine from his court and then moves Anne Boleyn
25:57
Speaker 1: into her old rooms. So Catherine is fighting to save
26:01
Speaker 1: her marriage. But not only that, it's not just her
26:03
Speaker 1: she's fighting for She's fighting for Mary because she needs
26:07
Speaker 1: to ensure that she is protected. If their marriage is annulled,
26:12
Speaker 1: Mary becomes illegitimate. And Catherine suffered poverty, and she suffered
26:19
Speaker 1: poverty and imprisonment, and she doesn't want that for her daughter.
26:22
Speaker 1: She wants her to have a good life. But on
26:25
Speaker 1: May twenty third, fifteen thirty three, the Archbishop of Canterbury
26:28
Speaker 1: says the marriage is null and void, and then five
26:32
Speaker 1: days later he was declared married to Anne Berlin because
26:35
Speaker 1: they got married in a secret ceremony and he got
26:38
Speaker 1: rid of anything that resembled Catherine. He just ripped it
26:41
Speaker 1: all out off, it went out of the castle, and
26:45
Speaker 1: after twenty three years, eleven months and nineteen days being
26:50
Speaker 1: the first and longest wife of Henry eighth, their marriage
26:55
Speaker 1: is dissolved in Henry's eyes, but Catherine continues to refer
26:59
Speaker 1: to herself is the one true Queen. So over the
27:01
Speaker 1: next four years, Catherine basically she just keeps trudging around,
27:06
Speaker 1: moving from castle to castle, basically on the outskirts of
27:09
Speaker 1: English society, and she starts going a bit loopy. So
27:13
Speaker 1: when she's that combolting castle, she does some extreme self
27:18
Speaker 1: isolation and imprisons herself in one room in the house
27:23
Speaker 1: and she leaves it only to go to Mass. And
27:26
Speaker 1: don't worry. This gets worse. Not only does she starve
27:30
Speaker 1: herself and lock herself away, she starts wearing this hair
27:35
Speaker 1: shirt and it's basically this like course in rough and
27:40
Speaker 1: unpleasant shirt which is meant to quote unquote mortify the flesh.
27:47
Speaker 1: It's supposed to promote repentance, like what is she going
27:51
Speaker 1: to repent? So Henry, how am I? Not content with
27:54
Speaker 1: being a fucking prick, decides to be an asshole as well.
27:58
Speaker 1: Not only does he baner her, stops her from talking
28:01
Speaker 1: to their only daughter, Mary, who, by the way, he
28:05
Speaker 1: has deemed illegitimate. She cannot see or talk to her
28:10
Speaker 1: like completely all communication as band. So she risks treason
28:15
Speaker 1: to get letters to her daughter, and Henry, not content
28:19
Speaker 1: with being an asshole, also decides to be a scumbag.
28:22
Speaker 1: Not content with banishment and keeping her child from her,
28:27
Speaker 1: he writes these winging, whining, angry letters. He nags her,
28:34
Speaker 1: demanding that she recognizes Anne is the true Queen of
28:37
Speaker 1: England because she won't submit, and he tries to really
28:41
Speaker 1: fuck with her he offers her and Mary better lives
28:46
Speaker 1: and better living quarters if they just politely acquiesced to
28:51
Speaker 1: his request and bow down to Anne as the true Queen.
28:55
Speaker 1: But Catherine, being stubborn, was just like was like no
29:01
Speaker 1: tob of love. She ensured that her servants continued to
29:04
Speaker 1: refer to her as the true Queen of England, whereas
29:07
Speaker 1: Henry wanted to make it clear that she was Arthur's
29:10
Speaker 1: wife and not his, and kept referring to her as
29:13
Speaker 1: the dowager Princess of Wales. So in fifteen thirty five,
29:18
Speaker 1: she is getting sick and she knows, she knows that
29:22
Speaker 1: she's a death stoer, and she writes a letter to Henry,
29:25
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like a last Will and Testament,
29:28
Speaker 1: but it's also where she sort of confronts him but
29:31
Speaker 1: also absolves him, pardons him for like all his wrongdoings.
29:37
Speaker 1: She writes, I pardon you know, I pardon you for everything,
29:40
Speaker 1: and I pray that God will pardon you too. She
29:43
Speaker 1: asks that and asks that he you know, actually takes
29:46
Speaker 1: care of their daughter Mary, and then in got wrenching
29:51
Speaker 1: heartache of it all is, she ends the letter with, lastly,
29:56
Speaker 1: I make this vow that mine eyes, desire you above
30:00
Speaker 1: all things. However, Catherine doesn't die alone. Catherine's best friend,
30:07
Speaker 1: Maria de Solanis, travels sixty miles in a horseback to
30:12
Speaker 1: get to Catherine before she dies. She tells the guards that, oh, whips,
30:16
Speaker 1: I am a silly woman and I lost the paperwork
30:18
Speaker 1: because I'm such a silly lady. And they're like, oh, okay, sure,
30:21
Speaker 1: obviously you wouldn't lie about a thing like that. And
30:24
Speaker 1: she goes in and her friend stays with her till
30:28
Speaker 1: the end. So the embomber is freaked out because like
30:31
Speaker 1: her body is im pair of a condition except for
30:32
Speaker 1: her heart, which has a has turned black. Now, some
30:38
Speaker 1: people there was like a rumor going around at the
30:40
Speaker 1: time that like Anne and Henry had poisoned her, but
30:43
Speaker 1: the modern theory is that she just had cancer of
30:46
Speaker 1: the heart. Thus sends our story of Catherine of Arragon. Oh.
30:50
Speaker 1: The reason she was referred to as Catherine of Aragon,
30:53
Speaker 1: it was sort of used as a way to demeanor
30:55
Speaker 1: that she was Catherine of this Spanish little Spanish area.
30:58
Speaker 1: So what did we learn to that woman of the
31:01
Speaker 1: past had a really shit time and the Henry clearly
31:04
Speaker 1: was a piece of shit, don't marry fuck boys, even
31:08
Speaker 1: if you want to be queen, don't do it. No,
31:11
Speaker 1: and that one should always have a best friend who's
31:14
Speaker 1: willing to commit treason for you. Now, I'm about to
31:17
Speaker 1: go finish this book on Amberlin and join me next
31:20
Speaker 1: time I talk about Amberlin and how she's not quite
31:23
Speaker 1: Oh yes. If you like today's episode, feel free to
31:27
Speaker 1: go on to Apple Podcasts and iTunes and rate and
31:31
Speaker 1: review five stars. Please. It does really well for me.
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Speaker 1: more people will get to hear we talk about stuff.
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31:41
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31:43
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Speaker 1: if you want to support me, you can always go
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Speaker 1: to my Patreon dot so, patreon dot com, slash who did.
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Speaker 2: obviously that is not the only way you can support me,
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Speaker 2: but you can also follow on all the social media
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Speaker 1: What Now pod on Instagram, Facebook and somewhere else and
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32:12
Speaker 1: am very tired now, it's very late and I'm starting
32:14
Speaker 1: to lose my voice. So I am going to bid
32:16
Speaker 1: you all good night and I will chat to you
32:19
Speaker 1: again next time where we are going to discuss and
32:22
Speaker 1: bile in so adios or revoir of ware to send
32:26
Speaker 1: my friends farewell