Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Alicia Keys

Transcript

Alicia Keys · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:08
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Alicia Keys started her career as a soulful, piano
0:15
Speaker 1: playing singer songwriter a lot like a young Carol King,
0:18
Speaker 1: But in the twenty years since, we've seen her grow
0:20
Speaker 1: into one of the world's biggest pop stars, and, like
0:24
Speaker 1: at the Kobe Memorial recently, someone the country turns to
0:27
Speaker 1: when we need a unifying voice. Reading Alicia's newly released
0:31
Speaker 1: memoir More Myself, you understand right away how someone's so
0:35
Speaker 1: young carries so much wisdom. Raised by a loving single
0:39
Speaker 1: mother in the middle of New York City in the
0:41
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, she was bound or grew up smart
0:44
Speaker 1: and grew up fast, or maybe not make it at all.
0:48
Speaker 1: Alicia spoke with Malcolm Gladwell by Zoom recently about her
0:51
Speaker 1: childhood navigating the dangerous city, about writing her book and
0:54
Speaker 1: how it informed her new music, and shared some astonishing
0:57
Speaker 1: stories about some of the amazing people she's crossed paths
1:00
Speaker 1: with over her career. This is broken record liner notes
1:07
Speaker 1: for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Malcolm Gladwell
1:16
Speaker 1: with Alicia Keys. You wrote this book at the same
1:19
Speaker 1: time that you were doing your latest album, you know,
1:23
Speaker 1: I mean, I started to write the book before the
1:27
Speaker 1: latest album, for sure, But they definitely have synergies they
1:31
Speaker 1: and I feel that their companion pieces they belonged together.
1:35
Speaker 1: Was it strange to work on a book at the
1:38
Speaker 1: same time as music or it was the same process
1:41
Speaker 1: for you? Well, no, it's not the same process at all.
1:44
Speaker 1: It's totally foreign, completely brand new, much much more in
1:51
Speaker 1: depth and depth. You know. Obviously the book writing process
1:55
Speaker 1: and the length of time that it takes it was
1:57
Speaker 1: much longer and much more patients required to really follow
2:02
Speaker 1: through with everything and find the through lines and really
2:05
Speaker 1: be clear about the intention and the meaning and that
2:08
Speaker 1: you know that it makes sense the whole way through it,
2:11
Speaker 1: that it really brings you there. But emotionally, I think
2:15
Speaker 1: it was similar in the sense of, you know, just
2:19
Speaker 1: I think with music you also do have to find
2:22
Speaker 1: the truth in what you're trying to convey, and you're
2:25
Speaker 1: just doing it in a much more concise way, which
2:27
Speaker 1: can also be harder because you don't have the length
2:30
Speaker 1: to deeply explain what you're truly trying to say. So
2:35
Speaker 1: and in those ways, they both have their challenges. But
2:38
Speaker 1: obviously music is more like a second skin for me
2:41
Speaker 1: than book writing, So in that way, it was totally different.
2:44
Speaker 1: But I think what was good about both recording the
2:48
Speaker 1: music and writing this book at similar times is that
2:54
Speaker 1: I was asking myself too similar questions. And the question
2:58
Speaker 1: that I was asking myself and I was understanding more
3:02
Speaker 1: than ever before, was this question about identity and who
3:06
Speaker 1: actually am I? And who who of who I am?
3:11
Speaker 1: Who is who I've been told to be? And who
3:14
Speaker 1: is who I'm actually And that became a theme that
3:19
Speaker 1: was both I was deeply able to search through the
3:22
Speaker 1: book writing process from looking you know, from my very
3:26
Speaker 1: beginning stages to now, and then I was also able
3:30
Speaker 1: to search from this music sonic lyrical process. So I
3:34
Speaker 1: think it was it was really cool for that because
3:37
Speaker 1: although it was the same question, it was two different
3:40
Speaker 1: expressions of the question. So that made it cool. Will
3:44
Speaker 1: you tell a story about how Swiss came to you
3:46
Speaker 1: and says how how can we never talk about big Italian?
3:49
Speaker 1: Which I so an inspiration. I love that because we
3:53
Speaker 1: always have to pick a side, right, you know. I
3:57
Speaker 1: have to say that I've always been fortunate because as
4:00
Speaker 1: I grew up in New York City, you know, the
4:02
Speaker 1: heart of the city right there, melting pot for real,
4:06
Speaker 1: there was never a moment that I wasn't seeing people
4:08
Speaker 1: of all kinds of descents and all kinds of beliefs
4:11
Speaker 1: and religions and places and styles and energies. And I
4:15
Speaker 1: think that really made a difference for me. I didn't
4:18
Speaker 1: feel like I had to pick a side, because I
4:21
Speaker 1: think I think if I grew up in a smaller
4:23
Speaker 1: town or I don't know, I think it was just circumstance,
4:26
Speaker 1: and you know, just how my particular childhood was. I
4:32
Speaker 1: never felt like that. I definitely felt I understood there
4:35
Speaker 1: were different sides, but I didn't feel like I had
4:37
Speaker 1: to pick one, you know. And but I also didn't
4:40
Speaker 1: realize think what his question when he asked, when he
4:43
Speaker 1: said that it was, I was very defensive. Were you
4:46
Speaker 1: talking about like everybody knows that? And the more people
4:49
Speaker 1: that I started to encounter that actually didn't know that
4:51
Speaker 1: started to prove him right. And and I guess so
4:55
Speaker 1: in regards to picking sides, maybe we I picked a
5:00
Speaker 1: side in a way. I didn't think I was picking
5:03
Speaker 1: a side. I didn't feel like I needed to pick
5:05
Speaker 1: a side. I didn't realize I was picking a side.
5:07
Speaker 1: But I think in some ways perhaps I did. So
5:09
Speaker 1: that was what was really interesting about it. It just
5:11
Speaker 1: kind of he put myself. He threw me in front
5:14
Speaker 1: of the mirror, and I was like, oh, maybe. So
5:17
Speaker 1: it's so good about people who you who love you
5:20
Speaker 1: and who you love like how they can provoke you
5:23
Speaker 1: to think about things that you would never there wouldn't
5:26
Speaker 1: have been a reason to think about when he asked
5:29
Speaker 1: you that we said that to you, was that the
5:31
Speaker 1: beginning of the process of the new album? Were you
5:33
Speaker 1: already immersed in it when we said that too, I
5:36
Speaker 1: was already writing it. I think that it really gave
5:39
Speaker 1: it a perspective that I did not have prior, and
5:42
Speaker 1: I started to really think about it. Turned it gave
5:47
Speaker 1: me the questioning of myself to not only think about race,
5:52
Speaker 1: or to think about religion, or to think about color,
5:55
Speaker 1: but to go even deeper and think about emotions. Because
6:00
Speaker 1: for me, that's my biggest trouble I find, or my
6:02
Speaker 1: biggest challenge, or my biggest lesson or my biggest opportunity,
6:05
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it, is I find
6:09
Speaker 1: that I it's been very difficult for me to access
6:11
Speaker 1: my emotions, and so I finally come to a place
6:15
Speaker 1: where I can acknowledge the myriad of emotions that make
6:20
Speaker 1: us all up who we are. And you know, because
6:24
Speaker 1: the world is so structured, and you know, we kind
6:28
Speaker 1: of have been so taught to be in control of
6:31
Speaker 1: our everything, you know that we don't think we're not
6:36
Speaker 1: encouraged to kind of see these darker or deeper or
6:39
Speaker 1: bluer or scarier or more vulnerable parts that are inside
6:44
Speaker 1: of us, that are really a healthy part of why
6:48
Speaker 1: you are who you are. But if you don't know
6:50
Speaker 1: that side, how can you really know yourself? And so
6:53
Speaker 1: that's that's what it started to send me down that
6:57
Speaker 1: rugget hole and away I went. I want to go
7:01
Speaker 1: back to what it meant to grow up in the
7:04
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties in New York. Um, before I get there,
7:07
Speaker 1: I want to touch on this question of racial identity again,
7:10
Speaker 1: because you make that comment about your mom that she's
7:13
Speaker 1: the blackest white woman you've ever known. So it's almost
7:18
Speaker 1: as if, like, so, you have a white mother and
7:21
Speaker 1: a black father, but you have a kind of black
7:23
Speaker 1: white mother and a black father. Is that fair? That's
7:26
Speaker 1: what you're saying, right, Yeah, I mean she totally is.
7:29
Speaker 1: I mean, if you when you meet my mother or
7:31
Speaker 1: when you ever spend time at my mother, you can definitely,
7:34
Speaker 1: you know, she she has a certain spirit and she
7:38
Speaker 1: has a certain energy that that definitely, you know, anybody
7:41
Speaker 1: would say she is one of the blackest white people
7:44
Speaker 1: that you have you have ever met um, And she's definitely,
7:48
Speaker 1: you know, I think We've always had such a really diverse,
7:51
Speaker 1: interesting group of aunties and friends and and you know,
7:56
Speaker 1: her colleagues and friends and my friends and and sister
8:00
Speaker 1: friends and all the people that you know, I've been
8:03
Speaker 1: able to attract and just have been a part of
8:05
Speaker 1: my life that have really created such a, like I said,
8:08
Speaker 1: a really robust, dynamic experience in regards to what people
8:13
Speaker 1: look like, what people believe, feel, dance like, eat, you know,
8:19
Speaker 1: live the whole thing. And so it definitely painted a
8:23
Speaker 1: colorful picture for me, and I really appreciate that. What
8:27
Speaker 1: would your mom say if if your mom was on
8:30
Speaker 1: this call and I said to her, your daughter describes
8:33
Speaker 1: you as the blackest white woman, what would she say?
8:36
Speaker 1: I think She's like, yeah, I think she right. I
8:40
Speaker 1: think that. So what's here? They're painted picture of growing
8:45
Speaker 1: up with your mom and Behattan Plaza. Prist of all,
8:47
Speaker 1: what your mom is very is really into music, the
8:52
Speaker 1: world you grew up with his intensity musical. What's she playing?
8:56
Speaker 1: You're you're seven years old? What's your mom playing? Um?
8:59
Speaker 1: I mean I can remember correctly. She's playing Bobby Caldwell,
9:03
Speaker 1: she's playing John Coltrane, she's playing La Fitzgerald. She's playing
9:08
Speaker 1: Marvin Gaye, she's playing roberta Flat, She's playing Areta Franklin,
9:13
Speaker 1: she's playing Nina Simone, she's playing you know, all these
9:17
Speaker 1: really epic Stevie Wonder, She's playing all the greatest of
9:21
Speaker 1: the greats are coming through those speakers and those and
9:25
Speaker 1: those those record players, because that's what it was, a
9:28
Speaker 1: record player, and she had all the albums on all
9:31
Speaker 1: the shelves, and it was just the soundtrack was so beautiful. Man. Yeah. Yeah,
9:38
Speaker 1: And you're saying the book that you from the age
9:41
Speaker 1: of four you knew you were you were going to
9:43
Speaker 1: be a singer. I mean, but at the age of
9:47
Speaker 1: four us when I fell in love. I was bitten
9:50
Speaker 1: and smitten. I think that that's when I really fell
9:54
Speaker 1: in love with the possibility. Because my my little sweet
10:03
Speaker 1: teacher at the time, as Hazel, who was kind of
10:06
Speaker 1: the music teacher at my kindergarten. She always so passionate
10:12
Speaker 1: and so lively, and she always wanted to expose us
10:17
Speaker 1: to different sounds and places and performances, and so our
10:20
Speaker 1: little selves were always going somewhere and singing some little
10:23
Speaker 1: songs somewhere. But she also did these plays, and those
10:28
Speaker 1: plays were the first opportunity that I had with kind
10:31
Speaker 1: of trying out to sing in front of people. And
10:34
Speaker 1: it was so scary and I was so so terrified,
10:37
Speaker 1: which you know, it's so terrifying to sing in front
10:39
Speaker 1: of people you know, much less in front of people
10:42
Speaker 1: you don't know as much easier, but in front of
10:44
Speaker 1: people you know, it's super terrifying. But I tried and
10:48
Speaker 1: I sang. We were doing the Wizard of Oz and
10:50
Speaker 1: I sang Somewhere of the Rainbow. And I had to
10:52
Speaker 1: learn it, and I had to learn all the words,
10:54
Speaker 1: and I had to learn the melodies and sing it.
10:56
Speaker 1: And when I did, I felt something. And that was
11:01
Speaker 1: the moment that I just I didn't feel scared, I
11:04
Speaker 1: felt good. And that was the moment that filled me
11:07
Speaker 1: up in that way and started that journey. So I
11:10
Speaker 1: didn't exactly know it's gonna be a singer at that second,
11:13
Speaker 1: I don't think, but I did know that I felt
11:15
Speaker 1: something that I wanted to feel again. It found your
11:18
Speaker 1: world at that moment. Yeah, there's a couple of moments
11:23
Speaker 1: that I wish you'd did more of it. When you
11:24
Speaker 1: start talking about your relationship to to to pianos and
11:30
Speaker 1: to a to the piano. If you're keep talking about that,
11:32
Speaker 1: I thought that was So is there something can you
11:35
Speaker 1: remember the first time as a child that you understood
11:38
Speaker 1: what a piano was and what it could do and
11:41
Speaker 1: what you felt at that moment? Well, I feel like
11:44
Speaker 1: pianos have always been around me. My grandmother on my
11:47
Speaker 1: mother's side always played piano. She was actually, you know,
11:50
Speaker 1: a singer and a writer herself. And then you know,
11:54
Speaker 1: I think got married quite early, so my grandfather, you know,
11:58
Speaker 1: call it right out of college nineteen plenty, whatever that is,
12:01
Speaker 1: and then right away they started having children, ended up
12:04
Speaker 1: having nine children altogether. And let me tell you, I
12:06
Speaker 1: have two and I'm trying to figure out how to
12:09
Speaker 1: get some space. So I don't know how she would
12:13
Speaker 1: have nine and like be able to do anything besides
12:17
Speaker 1: everything that was needed for that, you know. So I
12:20
Speaker 1: think at that point, you know, her dream was deferred.
12:23
Speaker 1: And so but ever since a little girl going to
12:27
Speaker 1: visit my family there there was always a piano there.
12:30
Speaker 1: There was always a piano at my other grandmother's house too.
12:33
Speaker 1: My father's mother, my Nanna's house, she always had a piano,
12:36
Speaker 1: and I think her kids at one time took piano
12:39
Speaker 1: and didn't really stick with it, but it always was
12:41
Speaker 1: in the house. So there was always a piano fortunately somewhere.
12:45
Speaker 1: So I think from a very young age, I definitely
12:48
Speaker 1: knew exactly what it was. I knew what it was
12:50
Speaker 1: meant to do, and I was very attracted to it
12:52
Speaker 1: from a very early age. I would, you know, in
12:55
Speaker 1: New York, I would pass by the Segway shop and
12:58
Speaker 1: they all those pianos in the way, and I was fascinated.
13:01
Speaker 1: I was. I was almost just drawn like a like
13:04
Speaker 1: a magnetic force towards it, and I would stick my
13:08
Speaker 1: nose to the window and just look at it. I
13:10
Speaker 1: would want to play it. I would want to hear them.
13:12
Speaker 1: They look so beautiful, they're like art. And so I
13:15
Speaker 1: was very very enamored with it. And and then you know,
13:19
Speaker 1: but we never had a piano because that's like, first
13:21
Speaker 1: of all, our apartment was tiny, and you can't fit
13:24
Speaker 1: something like that into our place. And and it wasn't
13:27
Speaker 1: even really a consideration or a thought until the opportunity
13:31
Speaker 1: arose that we actually were given a piano, and that
13:35
Speaker 1: was another thing that changed everything. So I once that
13:40
Speaker 1: happened and we actually had the opportunity for me to
13:42
Speaker 1: play one consistently, that's when I started asking if there
13:45
Speaker 1: was a way I could learn, and and it felt
13:48
Speaker 1: like in that way, I was just drawn to it.
13:52
Speaker 1: I can't explain it except anything like that. It wasn't
13:56
Speaker 1: someone wasn't always necessarily playing around me and said, hey,
13:59
Speaker 1: Lee should up on my lap and learn. The wasn't
14:02
Speaker 1: necessarily that where I didn't have a big like church
14:05
Speaker 1: experience where a lot of people learn in church and
14:07
Speaker 1: kind of jump in and start to learn there and
14:09
Speaker 1: that's how they played. That wasn't my experience either. But
14:11
Speaker 1: it just so happened that this fascination and the love
14:14
Speaker 1: and the draw and the power was always there. And
14:17
Speaker 1: then when it finally revealed itself, it was like again
14:20
Speaker 1: that same family where it's like it found me, how
14:24
Speaker 1: old were you when your family got that piano? And
14:28
Speaker 1: now I started playing and I started to take lessons
14:31
Speaker 1: at seven, So I was right. I was right about
14:35
Speaker 1: that age. Yeah, and it was just beat up. Oh yeah,
14:40
Speaker 1: it was a you know, a hand me down piano,
14:42
Speaker 1: which was the most beautiful thing I ever saw in
14:44
Speaker 1: my life. I couldn't have been more excited or more grateful.
14:48
Speaker 1: It was this kind of beat up brown wooden, upright
14:54
Speaker 1: old player piano. So it had the doors in the
14:57
Speaker 1: front that was slide open where the twenties or the thirties,
15:01
Speaker 1: and whatever saloon it was in or wherever it came from,
15:04
Speaker 1: the playing paper would have been inside of it. And
15:07
Speaker 1: it was in the corner and played for all the
15:10
Speaker 1: people in there, and they probably were dancing to it,
15:13
Speaker 1: and a lot of times it probably wasn't played that
15:15
Speaker 1: often from someone's fingers, or maybe it was, who knows.
15:19
Speaker 1: But it found its way to my living room and
15:21
Speaker 1: became the divider between my little parts of the living
15:25
Speaker 1: room that was my little bedroom and the actual part
15:28
Speaker 1: that me and my mother used to sit in and
15:29
Speaker 1: watch TV. And it was the wall and there was
15:33
Speaker 1: where please tell me you still have that piano, believe
15:37
Speaker 1: it or not, I don't. I know, I didn't, you know.
15:41
Speaker 1: Before anything started to take off or happened, I was
15:46
Speaker 1: able to get another piano I'm trying to think of
15:50
Speaker 1: when I'm actually trying to think of when the cross happens.
15:53
Speaker 1: I think I got there's a piano that was a
15:57
Speaker 1: part of the first deal I had, and it was
16:01
Speaker 1: a far superior piano in my little brown one, and
16:04
Speaker 1: I would and at that time, I didn't know what
16:07
Speaker 1: success was, and I didn't know about ever make it,
16:10
Speaker 1: and I had no idea. I was just like, WHOA,
16:12
Speaker 1: this is a beautiful piano. And I, in my spirit
16:15
Speaker 1: and my mother we said, well, who should we give
16:17
Speaker 1: the other piano too, so that someone else can learn
16:19
Speaker 1: and someone else can have a beautiful experience. And so
16:22
Speaker 1: that was all we've been thinking that. We weren't thinking, I, oh,
16:24
Speaker 1: we better hold this because this would literally be like
16:26
Speaker 1: the most museum worthy piano ever. We never we never
16:31
Speaker 1: thought about it. Somewhere out there, someone's got that piano,
16:35
Speaker 1: I think, and if they knew it was yours, you know,
16:38
Speaker 1: it's with a million dollars. When we come back more
16:41
Speaker 1: from Alicia Keys. We're back with more from Alicia Keys.
16:48
Speaker 1: Tell me about Manhattan Plaza. I was, I you know,
16:52
Speaker 1: I've been in New York for twenty years. I walked
16:53
Speaker 1: by Manhattan Plaza a million times. I had no idea.
16:57
Speaker 1: First of all, no idea took that's where. But I
17:00
Speaker 1: had no idea that it was this kind of world
17:03
Speaker 1: under itself of all of these creative types from Broadway.
17:07
Speaker 1: And so just describe for its Manhattan Plaza for those
17:10
Speaker 1: who don't know New York. So Manhattan Plaza is like
17:14
Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime creation. Basically it was built
17:20
Speaker 1: to support artists and creatives in that area because it's
17:26
Speaker 1: on forty second Street between Ninth and tenth, and it's
17:29
Speaker 1: two twin towers and one is on Tenth Avenue, one
17:33
Speaker 1: is on Ninth Avenue. And it was an experiment that
17:36
Speaker 1: the city did at a certain point to try to
17:40
Speaker 1: create an affordable living space for people who were creatives. Obviously,
17:45
Speaker 1: this New York City is all about creative people and
17:48
Speaker 1: that industry, in the entertainment industry. And so what they
17:52
Speaker 1: did was they created a system that you would pay
17:56
Speaker 1: only a portion of what you made that month. So
18:00
Speaker 1: you know, as we know, artists have very fluctuating incomes.
18:04
Speaker 1: It's not always uh, you know, you don't get a
18:06
Speaker 1: check every week. You know, you don't have a retirement plan. Um,
18:11
Speaker 1: it's very very unstable, and sometimes you're working a lot,
18:14
Speaker 1: sometimes you're working not at all. And so depending on
18:17
Speaker 1: whatever was happening for you that month, you would pay
18:19
Speaker 1: a portion of what you made. And I remember my
18:22
Speaker 1: mother told me that her her rent was about seventy
18:25
Speaker 1: five dollars, So that was you know, at that beginning time.
18:31
Speaker 1: And and and so what they created was a really
18:34
Speaker 1: special place that also had had like a playground for kids.
18:38
Speaker 1: So in between the buildings there were these special things.
18:42
Speaker 1: And so in a lot of ways you could live
18:44
Speaker 1: in that building and kind of it was its own world,
18:47
Speaker 1: unto itself, and everybody who was in that building knew
18:50
Speaker 1: each other, and all the kids kind of played together,
18:53
Speaker 1: and you know, they're sometimes you know, you even me
18:57
Speaker 1: discovering who lived in that building, I'm like, wow, Terence Howard,
19:01
Speaker 1: Larry David Sami Pel Jackson. You didn't see him back
19:05
Speaker 1: in the day. I don't recall seeing Sam Jackson, but
19:09
Speaker 1: I would have remembered if you had. I think I would,
19:12
Speaker 1: But I could have been so young that you know,
19:14
Speaker 1: it just doesn't dawn on you like that, you know,
19:16
Speaker 1: But I feel like I would have known if I
19:19
Speaker 1: if I saw him. But you know, he was he
19:22
Speaker 1: was also in that building, you know for a time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
19:26
Speaker 1: it's crazy. It's like it's not only in New York
19:28
Speaker 1: kind of thing. There's don't exist anywhere else. But seriously, seriously,
19:34
Speaker 1: but it's plumped in the middle of Times Square in
19:38
Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties and Times Square in the eighties
19:40
Speaker 1: and nineties. You know, is that the world's most pleasant place?
19:45
Speaker 1: Were you aware of that fact that it was sort
19:48
Speaker 1: of the world outside Manhattan Plaza was a little scary
19:51
Speaker 1: or just did you just not did that not register
19:53
Speaker 1: to you when you were a kid. I knew very
19:56
Speaker 1: clearly if you you know, to go to school in
19:59
Speaker 1: order to come back from school, in order to you know,
20:02
Speaker 1: if there was any activity that I was doing, because
20:04
Speaker 1: my mother was big on that. You know, I'm my
20:07
Speaker 1: mother's a single mother in a real mean city with
20:12
Speaker 1: a daughter, and so she was definitely focused on making
20:16
Speaker 1: sure that I had places to go in places to be,
20:19
Speaker 1: because she knew if I didn't, then I would I
20:21
Speaker 1: would find places to go in places to be. So
20:25
Speaker 1: every time I walked out on the street. Even one
20:27
Speaker 1: of my earliest recollections early in the book that I
20:31
Speaker 1: Love a Lot is the first time that I asked her,
20:35
Speaker 1: I asked her who were the women on the streets
20:38
Speaker 1: who in the winter barely had any clothes on? And she,
20:42
Speaker 1: you know, probably struggled trying to answer that question for
20:45
Speaker 1: whatever I was six year old or whatever that was. So,
20:49
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of that, a lot of that
20:51
Speaker 1: energy of Hell's Kitchen, which literally was as it sounds.
20:56
Speaker 1: That name was perfect for how it looked and how
21:00
Speaker 1: it sounded and how it was. And so I was
21:04
Speaker 1: very familiar with the life outside of that, which was
21:08
Speaker 1: full of a lot of a lot of pimps, a
21:10
Speaker 1: lot of prostitutes, a lot of x orated stores and theaters, um,
21:17
Speaker 1: a lot of heroin addicts, drug addicts. UM. It was
21:20
Speaker 1: definitely full of the New York scene. So so I
21:26
Speaker 1: was very aware of what that was, and I think
21:28
Speaker 1: it actually informed my um a lot of my character.
21:34
Speaker 1: UM and you and I noticed as I reflect back,
21:39
Speaker 1: that I've always been very you know, my exterior has
21:44
Speaker 1: always had to be well in place, and that is
21:48
Speaker 1: a lot because of you know, those streets that I
21:49
Speaker 1: grew up on. Yeah, you sound like you you had
21:53
Speaker 1: a pretty wild am I right, I was reading between
21:56
Speaker 1: the lines in your book I was like, how wild
21:57
Speaker 1: was Alicia when she was in when she was a teenager.
22:02
Speaker 1: What I wanted was your mom. I wanted you to
22:04
Speaker 1: I wanted your mom the way in and say, tell
22:06
Speaker 1: me the real story, what was going on when you're
22:08
Speaker 1: fifteen years old? I definitely, I was definitely. I just knew.
22:16
Speaker 1: I knew it all like all fifteen year olds to
22:19
Speaker 1: I just I knew I was grown too, because I
22:22
Speaker 1: had to be very independent from a very very young age.
22:27
Speaker 1: You know, my mother needed me to be able to
22:29
Speaker 1: get around the city. She needed me to be able
22:30
Speaker 1: to get to where I was going get to school.
22:33
Speaker 1: If I had a piano class or a dance class,
22:35
Speaker 1: I needed to get there. I need to get back home,
22:38
Speaker 1: you know. And so I was definitely always on the
22:40
Speaker 1: streets and I was always able to kind of meet
22:42
Speaker 1: up with my friends or go where I wanted to go.
22:44
Speaker 1: In essence, she was definitely on me, for sure, and
22:47
Speaker 1: she was wild. So you did not want to upset
22:50
Speaker 1: that woman. To this day, you don't want to upset
22:53
Speaker 1: that woman. It's really just so much more than it's
22:55
Speaker 1: necessary that you just like, let's just let's just get
22:59
Speaker 1: it right, please. So she and she you know, hey,
23:03
Speaker 1: I'm not even mad at her. She had to do
23:07
Speaker 1: she had to be. And I know when I have
23:09
Speaker 1: to go in on my kids like that too, because
23:11
Speaker 1: they have to understand how serious it is that they
23:14
Speaker 1: would never know in their young mind what I know.
23:17
Speaker 1: I understand why she had to, you know, I do.
23:20
Speaker 1: She had to make a point and I had to listen.
23:22
Speaker 1: And she didn't have a dad to send down and say.
23:25
Speaker 1: At least she put the bass voice on. It wasn't
23:27
Speaker 1: like that, you know what I mean. So I understand.
23:30
Speaker 1: But but she so I was definitely, I just I
23:33
Speaker 1: think I was. I was very smart. I really I
23:37
Speaker 1: knew how to navigate. I also had a lot of
23:40
Speaker 1: older friends, so I felt a lot older than I was.
23:43
Speaker 1: I asked it, a lot older than I was. I
23:45
Speaker 1: was probably pretty fast in regards to my experiences and
23:48
Speaker 1: things like that. So I just had a sense of
23:51
Speaker 1: stuff that most people of my age never did. And
23:55
Speaker 1: I just I couldn't go back, like I didn't know
23:57
Speaker 1: how to go back. I was already I was already
24:00
Speaker 1: so well responsible and kind of crazy and loud mouth,
24:04
Speaker 1: and you know, thought I was extraly tough and all
24:06
Speaker 1: the stuff that you think as a kid, because you know,
24:11
Speaker 1: it's irrelevant though, because you had your whole timeline as
24:14
Speaker 1: an artist is sped up. So what happened to you
24:18
Speaker 1: at nineteen is what usually happens to singers at twenty five. People,
24:24
Speaker 1: I think, forget if you grew up in New York,
24:26
Speaker 1: particularly as you grew up in New York, you're just
24:29
Speaker 1: you're two three years ahead of everybody else. You just
24:32
Speaker 1: have to grow up so much faster. Something d you
24:35
Speaker 1: way earlier. That is true. I mean, so sign at sixteen,
24:39
Speaker 1: graduated high school at sixteen, went to college is sixteen,
24:43
Speaker 1: and also started, you know, the experience, the journey of
24:47
Speaker 1: trying to become an artist at sixteen, and so all
24:51
Speaker 1: of it just was like boom, here you go. Tell
24:54
Speaker 1: me wait, so I want to know your sixteen year
24:58
Speaker 1: old self, it's Friday night, where are you going? Because
25:02
Speaker 1: I asked this question because I was in New York.
25:05
Speaker 1: That's the year. It's right when I came to New York. Well,
25:08
Speaker 1: me and my friends were either trying to sneak into
25:10
Speaker 1: the tunnel. There was a club called the Tunnel always
25:14
Speaker 1: played at so we were always trying sneaking a tunnel
25:16
Speaker 1: and try to see if we could like dress up
25:18
Speaker 1: enough and people wouldn't know that we're sixteen trying to
25:21
Speaker 1: sneak in. I said a lot of times, Um, we
25:26
Speaker 1: did that. We went a lot to the skate Key.
25:29
Speaker 1: There was a there was like a skating ring and
25:30
Speaker 1: the Bronx called the skate Key. And even me and
25:33
Speaker 1: my friends never skated because we were always like, if
25:36
Speaker 1: we need to run about of here, I don't want
25:38
Speaker 1: to be on pair of skates. So we never skated
25:40
Speaker 1: just in case we need to get out of there.
25:42
Speaker 1: And we never took off our jacket. And I never
25:44
Speaker 1: took off my jacket in places for years. For years,
25:46
Speaker 1: I never people would ask me, can I take a
25:48
Speaker 1: jacke olt keep my jacket with me? When you need
25:51
Speaker 1: to get out, you need to have your jacket. So
25:53
Speaker 1: that was like always just instinctual for sure. Um. And
25:57
Speaker 1: then we go to free go to each other's house.
25:59
Speaker 1: We would we would hang out like, um, you know,
26:02
Speaker 1: we would hang out in Harlem a lot, which is
26:03
Speaker 1: basically just a lot of walking around. You basically were
26:06
Speaker 1: you went nowhere, you just walked and walked. Different guys
26:10
Speaker 1: to try to talk to you, and you would just
26:12
Speaker 1: do the game and keep walking and walking into a
26:15
Speaker 1: lot of random walking. Yeah, that's a little bit of
26:20
Speaker 1: what we did. And what are you? What are you
26:23
Speaker 1: at that age? You're listening to what? So it's because
26:26
Speaker 1: the music scene taking the hip hop scene New York
26:28
Speaker 1: is exploding right. Oh, it's the best. It was so good.
26:31
Speaker 1: I mean it was Mary J. Blige. We were listening
26:35
Speaker 1: to the Woutane Clan. We were listening Nas, we were
26:38
Speaker 1: listening and listening to Biggie Smalls. We were listening to Tupac.
26:43
Speaker 1: We were listening to Um black Moon. Black Moon was
26:48
Speaker 1: popping at the time, were amazing. We were listening to
26:51
Speaker 1: Smith and Wesson. They were crazy. They were part of
26:53
Speaker 1: that whole BAI league. Um. We were listening to you know,
26:58
Speaker 1: like Swuv was was in the consciousness at the time,
27:03
Speaker 1: like Jade and Blackstone, or consciousness like big girl groups
27:07
Speaker 1: for big voices, a lot of in vogue. Um. We
27:11
Speaker 1: were listening to. Man, there was so much great music,
27:16
Speaker 1: you know, there was so much good stuff that was
27:19
Speaker 1: just so so many different sides. We were listening to
27:22
Speaker 1: like Shop of Ranks and you know, different different mad
27:25
Speaker 1: Cobra I remember, and there was all type of different
27:28
Speaker 1: reggae artists Bouchal Bantan and Um. There was just a
27:32
Speaker 1: bunch of different styles of music that was happening and
27:38
Speaker 1: we were listening to all of it. Yeah, and you're
27:41
Speaker 1: when do you start? You see you're in a girl band.
27:44
Speaker 1: I did not know that and the ambition. How long
27:50
Speaker 1: were you in the band? A while? I mean we
27:53
Speaker 1: really believed in that. We really wanted to take it
27:56
Speaker 1: all the way. We had our rehearsals all the time
27:58
Speaker 1: at the p PL on like one hundred and twenty
28:02
Speaker 1: fourth Street. Um, we were. I mean it was a
28:06
Speaker 1: couple of years. I think that we were just meeting
28:08
Speaker 1: up and trying to make it work and practicing and
28:11
Speaker 1: after school and working on us What kind of music
28:15
Speaker 1: was I when I couldn't get a sense of was
28:17
Speaker 1: that at that age? Are you making something similar to
28:20
Speaker 1: the kind of music you make today? Or was it? Yeah?
28:22
Speaker 1: It was mostly like we would sing our favorite songs.
28:26
Speaker 1: We were working on arrangements to the songs that we loved,
28:30
Speaker 1: so that if we ever had the opportunity to sing
28:33
Speaker 1: for anybody, we would be ready to kind of perform. Yeah,
28:37
Speaker 1: but didn't you write it? You? I made a note
28:39
Speaker 1: of it didn't you write what a song called I'm
28:42
Speaker 1: All Done? Was that you mentioned that in your book
28:45
Speaker 1: I'm All Alone as the first song alone, And that
28:49
Speaker 1: actually was triggered by the death of my grandfather and
28:52
Speaker 1: that happened that about twelve. I think I was about
28:56
Speaker 1: twelve at that time. And that was that wasn't really
28:59
Speaker 1: in the group at that time. I mean there was
29:01
Speaker 1: other like little groups that I was dibbled dabbling and
29:03
Speaker 1: at that time. But um, but when I wrote that song,
29:06
Speaker 1: the significance of that was just it was the first
29:08
Speaker 1: time an experience was painful enough to really, you know,
29:12
Speaker 1: provoke me to take all this information that I had
29:15
Speaker 1: with piano and with music and you know, sit down
29:19
Speaker 1: and create a thing. And it was the very first
29:21
Speaker 1: time and did that. And did you continue to write
29:26
Speaker 1: all the way from that point forward? Were you continuing
29:29
Speaker 1: to write music all the time or is it something
29:31
Speaker 1: that you left for a while and came back to,
29:32
Speaker 1: Like is this once I started, I really I recognized
29:37
Speaker 1: that it was something I could do. And I also
29:39
Speaker 1: recognized that it felt really good to just sit down
29:42
Speaker 1: and say what you feel. And I remember one of
29:45
Speaker 1: the one of the one of my dearest sisters who
29:49
Speaker 1: was also in the group with me. She and I.
29:51
Speaker 1: She started to play the bass and I played piano,
29:53
Speaker 1: and she and I would get together a lot and
29:56
Speaker 1: just kind of jam and write. And if my mother
29:59
Speaker 1: wasn't home when she was, I work late mostly all
30:02
Speaker 1: the time, and so she would my friend would come
30:04
Speaker 1: to my house and have her bass and I'd be
30:07
Speaker 1: on piano. And we were listening to a ton of
30:12
Speaker 1: Marvin Gaye What's Going On album, and the song that
30:15
Speaker 1: we listened so much to is Flying hind a Friendly Sky,
30:17
Speaker 1: which to me is one of the most unbelievable compositions
30:22
Speaker 1: ever because you hear this bass and it constantly walks
30:26
Speaker 1: up and it's like this relentless jazz zy of you know,
30:32
Speaker 1: stupor that he's describing how he's feeling being high, and
30:38
Speaker 1: it's it's so painful and beautiful at the same time.
30:44
Speaker 1: And and that was something that we were really fascinated with.
30:47
Speaker 1: And because she was starting to learn the bass, we
30:50
Speaker 1: would play like these type of energies and songs, and
30:53
Speaker 1: I think that's really good for both of us to
30:55
Speaker 1: just be hold up inside, you know, playing music, which
30:59
Speaker 1: is you know, music saves so many people's lives. What's
31:03
Speaker 1: the first song you wrote that you think it's your
31:06
Speaker 1: first truly great mature song like I saw your you
31:11
Speaker 1: would happily play to day at a concert. The very
31:14
Speaker 1: first song, the song I consider my first good song
31:17
Speaker 1: is a song called Butterflies, and that when I wrote
31:20
Speaker 1: when I was fourteen, and I would play it today,
31:23
Speaker 1: i'd play it right now. It's really sweet but beautiful
31:27
Speaker 1: and surprisingly surprisingly mature for fourteen in a way that
31:33
Speaker 1: it kind of seems timeless. It doesn't feel like, oh yeah,
31:36
Speaker 1: you can tell I was super young when I wrote that.
31:38
Speaker 1: You can if you can see how my songs developed
31:41
Speaker 1: over time and became more intricate. But but you don't
31:44
Speaker 1: pay attention to that. It just feels like a sweet song.
31:48
Speaker 1: You know. You know what I'm gonna ask you right now,
31:49
Speaker 1: don't you? Oh gosh, well, because I don't have a piano,
31:53
Speaker 1: No you can't. You just can't. You just like sing
31:55
Speaker 1: like two lines of it? See lines of it a cappella? Sure,
31:58
Speaker 1: I can. You know might be described your version, but
32:01
Speaker 1: that's all right. Um, let's see so versus lady. When
32:06
Speaker 1: I look into you, ah, sorry, the lies, You're the
32:14
Speaker 1: only one I need in my life. Baby, I just
32:18
Speaker 1: don't know how to describe Holloly may By feel inside.
32:29
Speaker 1: You give me butterfly, You got me fly. You're so
32:35
Speaker 1: high in the sky. I can't control the butterfly. You
32:42
Speaker 1: give me butterfly. You got me flying so high enough Skyhi,
32:51
Speaker 1: I can't control the butterfly. You wrote that when you
32:58
Speaker 1: were fourteen. Yeah, uh, I was sick. I was also
33:02
Speaker 1: listening to a lot of Anita Baker. I remember that too.
33:06
Speaker 1: My mother was listening to the tons of Anita Baker,
33:08
Speaker 1: and so back to that Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Anita Baker.
33:13
Speaker 1: There was this kind of jazzy undertone that I really
33:17
Speaker 1: related to a lot from those artists that she played
33:20
Speaker 1: when I was growing up. Yeah, when you stand up
33:23
Speaker 1: right now, did I take you back to fourteen? I
33:26
Speaker 1: was kind of remembering myself on my little piano that
33:29
Speaker 1: I told yell about Brent one ear doors sitting there
33:34
Speaker 1: and me just kind of I remember also listening to
33:37
Speaker 1: a lot of Brian McKnight at the time, because he
33:39
Speaker 1: was a he was a you know, such a beautiful
33:42
Speaker 1: piano player and songwriter, and I was just fascinated with
33:45
Speaker 1: listening and how that was and he would do these
33:48
Speaker 1: really pretty piano songs, and so I think I was
33:52
Speaker 1: taking some of that energy and just sitting at the
33:54
Speaker 1: piano and finding these chords and feeling the floe, and
33:59
Speaker 1: I was just a little own and I wrote that. Yeah,
34:03
Speaker 1: and you're see your mom comes home from work and
34:06
Speaker 1: you turned to her and you say, I've written the
34:08
Speaker 1: song and you play for you played for in the piano.
34:12
Speaker 1: What is your It must have blood is your mind? Blood? Like,
34:15
Speaker 1: what's your mom's reaction to this prodigy inside this towny apartment.
34:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. You would definitely need to ask her.
34:25
Speaker 1: I should just a bit of you her. I know,
34:28
Speaker 1: I'm just like, what does she think you for her?
34:31
Speaker 1: And talk to me later. But the the you know,
34:36
Speaker 1: I don't remember her. I'm sure that she was excited.
34:42
Speaker 1: And you know when I hear Egypt, eachyple will jump
34:45
Speaker 1: on the piano. He plays piano and and he'll come
34:47
Speaker 1: up with these songs and and I can hear inside
34:51
Speaker 1: of the song what's what's going on in his mind
34:54
Speaker 1: and what he's stumbling on and it's good. And I
34:58
Speaker 1: can say, man, he doesn't know it yet, and he
35:02
Speaker 1: doesn't it's not thinking about at all extra hard like that.
35:04
Speaker 1: But I say, you know, that kid has an ear
35:07
Speaker 1: like he has something that he understands stuff, And I'm
35:10
Speaker 1: always like, wow, I'm interested. I'm not pushing it or
35:14
Speaker 1: extra trying to feel uncomfortable, but I'm always interested. I
35:18
Speaker 1: don't know if she had the time to even get
35:22
Speaker 1: into it like that, or did I play it for
35:26
Speaker 1: her right away or was I working on it for
35:28
Speaker 1: some days. Did she just overhear me and just let
35:31
Speaker 1: me have my space. I don't recall her being like,
35:33
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, wow, that's like I don't remember her
35:35
Speaker 1: being all like that. She's always been enthusiastic and everything,
35:39
Speaker 1: so I'm not saying she didn't, but I don't recall
35:42
Speaker 1: it being kind of a thing. So I'm not sure
35:46
Speaker 1: what she was thinking or feeling at that time because
35:48
Speaker 1: I was like fourteen. When a little later, maybe at sixteen,
35:51
Speaker 1: when I started doing showcases and I started to maybe
35:54
Speaker 1: you know, it seemed more like a something that maybe
35:58
Speaker 1: she hadn't even be nervous for me about or whatever.
36:02
Speaker 1: But um, I'm interested in myself. Let's both call her. Shoot,
36:06
Speaker 1: we should have just add heard it. That's rights this happened.
36:10
Speaker 1: I reasonally asked that question is that one of the
36:13
Speaker 1: fascinating things about book is when you talk about at
36:17
Speaker 1: a very young age you meet these very very powerful
36:20
Speaker 1: people who hear you and instantly see that there's something
36:25
Speaker 1: special there. You know, I'm thinking about Clid Davis, you
36:29
Speaker 1: tell the pod and then and then Prince and Opera.
36:31
Speaker 1: But well, I want to talk about those three. I mean,
36:35
Speaker 1: first of all, it's by mind is still blown at
36:37
Speaker 1: the age of how were you nineteen when the music
36:40
Speaker 1: came out or when we were first still working on it,
36:42
Speaker 1: because that was probably that oh yeah, how old you
36:46
Speaker 1: know the agent which three of the most important cultural
36:49
Speaker 1: figures in the world of music and beyond music recognize
36:53
Speaker 1: something in you, right, that's let's see. Well, first, you know,
36:58
Speaker 1: I would say that it first started with my first manager,
37:00
Speaker 1: Jeff Robinson, who was the first one that even before me,
37:05
Speaker 1: you know, saw that there was something in me that
37:06
Speaker 1: was special and unique. And that was about that, you know,
37:10
Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen eight, where I was still with that first group,
37:14
Speaker 1: and he was the one that you know, said you
37:17
Speaker 1: really suppose you really should be a solo artist, of
37:19
Speaker 1: which I was like, no way, I don't Everyone who
37:21
Speaker 1: wants to be a solo artist. Sounds so boring and lonely,
37:24
Speaker 1: but um, you know he was right, you know he
37:27
Speaker 1: was he was right. He saw that I played already,
37:30
Speaker 1: saw that I wrote, He saw that I could do
37:32
Speaker 1: them both together and and it just created something that
37:34
Speaker 1: was that was special that he saw. And so he
37:37
Speaker 1: was the one that you know, took me around to
37:39
Speaker 1: the different labels and created the opportunity for me to
37:42
Speaker 1: meet these different people. That I met Peter Edge, who
37:44
Speaker 1: also became a really big part of my life and
37:47
Speaker 1: to this day as you know, the president. Uh and
37:51
Speaker 1: so he so he definitely introduced me to Peter and
37:55
Speaker 1: then um Peter. Then then Jeff also brought me to
37:59
Speaker 1: Columbia and that was the first time that I had
38:01
Speaker 1: my first situation, which didn't work out that well. And
38:05
Speaker 1: then and then between himself and Peter got me my
38:09
Speaker 1: first meeting with Clive Davis and that was about I'm
38:12
Speaker 1: gonna say that was about sixteen or seventeen, because I
38:15
Speaker 1: spent a couple of years with Columbia creating most of
38:18
Speaker 1: what became songs in a minor but they they just
38:21
Speaker 1: didn't understand the vision. They didn't get it, and and
38:24
Speaker 1: there's a lot of internal changes and stuff like that
38:27
Speaker 1: which happened all the time in business and so so
38:30
Speaker 1: um so that. So I met Clive at seventeen ish,
38:35
Speaker 1: and then I worked another couple of years, you know,
38:40
Speaker 1: finishing up the music. Do you remember what you played
38:43
Speaker 1: for him? So you go with Just for those who
38:45
Speaker 1: don't know, Clive Davis is like the most legendary figure,
38:49
Speaker 1: the greatest talent spot. I mean, he's the He's a
38:51
Speaker 1: god in the music world. You walk into his office
38:55
Speaker 1: at Arista at and you're seventeen were you were? You
38:59
Speaker 1: in intimidating? I was late and I was so annoyed
39:04
Speaker 1: that I was late, and Jeff was so mad at
39:06
Speaker 1: me that I was late. He's like, this is this
39:08
Speaker 1: is like the biggest meeting of your entire life, and
39:12
Speaker 1: you're late, and I felt bad. I didn't want to
39:15
Speaker 1: be late, like no one wants to be late. So
39:18
Speaker 1: so that was shitty. And unfortunately, you know, it was
39:23
Speaker 1: all my side that I think he had his meeting
39:25
Speaker 1: ran over, So something happened that I didn't seem late
39:28
Speaker 1: even though I was late. And and then of course
39:32
Speaker 1: I'm nervous because I'm like, you know this this is I.
39:36
Speaker 1: At the time, I was trying to get out of
39:39
Speaker 1: my previous label deal, which wasn't going well, and he
39:42
Speaker 1: was interested, and he heard already a group of songs
39:44
Speaker 1: because I created so much of what became songs in
39:47
Speaker 1: a minor, and I was playing stuff like I had
39:50
Speaker 1: a song called why do I Feel So Sad? I
39:52
Speaker 1: know that I played that. I had a song called
39:55
Speaker 1: Loving You, which was greatly inspired by Aretha Franklin, like
39:58
Speaker 1: that style of a song. I had my Butterfly song
40:01
Speaker 1: that I was playing the Shore, And then I was
40:03
Speaker 1: also playing some Brian McKnight covers and some Marvin Gay
40:07
Speaker 1: covers and stuff like that. I think that's probably that
40:09
Speaker 1: was my repertoire at the time. How long had you
40:11
Speaker 1: play for? I mean, you know, like a little probably
40:14
Speaker 1: like a twenty minute or fifteen twenty you know, a
40:16
Speaker 1: couple of songs, a couple of talking, a little you know,
40:19
Speaker 1: you are you looking at him while you're playing? I don't.
40:23
Speaker 1: I mean, I was definitely nervous. I hadn't, you know,
40:28
Speaker 1: I hadn't. I had done a lot of showcases because
40:30
Speaker 1: in order to get that first deal, we did a
40:32
Speaker 1: lot of showcases and and I had been performing a
40:35
Speaker 1: lot since that first group, and I had a sense
40:38
Speaker 1: of like how to put my thing on. But I
40:40
Speaker 1: was always I was always quite nervous. Was I looking
40:43
Speaker 1: at him? Probably a little, but not a lot, like
40:46
Speaker 1: not extra overcomefident, just like enough to do my thing.
40:51
Speaker 1: And he didn't he didn't have any doubt in his
40:54
Speaker 1: mind when he when he said I want he said,
40:57
Speaker 1: I want to work with you. It was anitation. I
41:00
Speaker 1: don't know if that happened exactly on that spot or
41:03
Speaker 1: if it was a call that maybe transpired later or
41:07
Speaker 1: a second meeting even but I'm but as I recall it,
41:11
Speaker 1: he definitely, I mean, he said he complimented me in
41:14
Speaker 1: ways that I had never been complimented. And to your
41:17
Speaker 1: point about the people that he's worked with, you know,
41:21
Speaker 1: you know, like the you know, like the Santanas and
41:24
Speaker 1: the Earth winning fires and and and just some of
41:29
Speaker 1: the absolute Joni Mitchell's and like some of the absolute
41:33
Speaker 1: all time greatest artists ever he's been a part of,
41:38
Speaker 1: you know, their creative trajectory. And so he would tell
41:42
Speaker 1: me that he thought I was a lot like a
41:43
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell. And you know, he never stepped foot in
41:46
Speaker 1: the studio with her that she could create all her
41:48
Speaker 1: things and write all her songs. And she just came
41:50
Speaker 1: back to him and said, Okay, my music is done.
41:52
Speaker 1: And she was like, I see that, I see you
41:54
Speaker 1: like that, and I couldn't believe it. You know, imagine
41:56
Speaker 1: my seventeen year old self being told that he saw
41:59
Speaker 1: me like someone like a Joni Mitchell. I was like, what. So, yeah,
42:04
Speaker 1: he was very excited. He knew what he saw, he
42:07
Speaker 1: knew what he has had his eyes on, and he
42:09
Speaker 1: also knew that there was like one in a billion
42:12
Speaker 1: chance that Columbia would ever let me go. He was
42:15
Speaker 1: very clear about that too, and they did do. There
42:18
Speaker 1: ever lasting dismay. I'm sure to my ever lasting great fortune,
42:27
Speaker 1: let me come back. Alicia talks about the beginning of
42:29
Speaker 1: her friendship with Prince. We're back with Alicia Keys, who
42:37
Speaker 1: had to run to another interview, but Malcolm requested she
42:39
Speaker 1: tell her Prince story first. Wait, you gotta tell your
42:42
Speaker 1: Prince story, which was another one of my favorite parts
42:45
Speaker 1: of the book. That story is so bananas. So you
42:48
Speaker 1: want to do you want to cover a Prince song
42:51
Speaker 1: on on a minor and so, and it's up to
42:56
Speaker 1: you to call prince to ask that's the I mean,
43:00
Speaker 1: other people could call, but it would likely not go well.
43:04
Speaker 1: And I think that they understood that if I called maybe,
43:10
Speaker 1: it made it a little harder for him to say no, maybe.
43:14
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I was he was definitely
43:17
Speaker 1: observing what I was doing, and he um, and he
43:21
Speaker 1: was you know, he was so voraciously a music lover
43:25
Speaker 1: and I'm really excited about new music all the time.
43:28
Speaker 1: I never met anybody like that who just knew the
43:31
Speaker 1: pulse of new music so so well. Um and so
43:35
Speaker 1: that that was him. So he was definitely observing what
43:38
Speaker 1: I was doing. And pause on this. This is really interesting.
43:42
Speaker 1: So at this point, you haven't put out any any
43:44
Speaker 1: records ever the press already I put out Fallen by
43:49
Speaker 1: that right right, And so he was he would have
43:52
Speaker 1: heard Fallen, Yeah, And then it was up to me
43:55
Speaker 1: to say, oh, as a part of the whole album,
43:59
Speaker 1: I also recorded how come you don't call me? And
44:04
Speaker 1: would it be okay for you to clear that to
44:06
Speaker 1: go on my album? Because he was he's the songwriter
44:09
Speaker 1: and you do have to clear covers with the song.
44:13
Speaker 1: So that was that was me asking him that question,
44:16
Speaker 1: and it was so crazy because like, first of all,
44:19
Speaker 1: I hadn't spoken to people that I adored like him
44:24
Speaker 1: ever before that phone call, Like I didn't just call it.
44:26
Speaker 1: That was not a normal occurrence. If you can imagine
44:30
Speaker 1: even today, you know, I missed him so much, and
44:32
Speaker 1: even today, if he was still alive and I was
44:35
Speaker 1: calling him, I would still feel nervous about call him.
44:37
Speaker 1: So just understand like that that part probably would just
44:40
Speaker 1: stay put. But if you can imagine that it's the
44:43
Speaker 1: very first time I'm ever calling somebody who I admire
44:46
Speaker 1: on a level that's like un explainable and calling to
44:50
Speaker 1: see if maybe he'd be cool with me performing his
44:54
Speaker 1: song after I've heard time and time again that he
44:56
Speaker 1: turns everything down. So that was what I was up against.
45:00
Speaker 1: It was about eighteen I think at the time, maybe nineteen,
45:04
Speaker 1: and I'm in some hotel room because we were doing
45:07
Speaker 1: some little tour through these different hotels and for like
45:11
Speaker 1: a press and stuff. And I'm in my hotel and
45:13
Speaker 1: I'm calling on the phone and the person says, hello,
45:16
Speaker 1: are you looking for Prince? And I'm like it's this
45:19
Speaker 1: prince and they're like no, hold on, they transfer me,
45:22
Speaker 1: and I'm like okay. So then the next person picks
45:24
Speaker 1: up Hello, I'm a Hello, and it's not him. Ei there. Hey,
45:27
Speaker 1: are you're looking for Prince? And I'm like, yes, so
45:29
Speaker 1: I'm looking for Okay, hold on the trans for me again.
45:32
Speaker 1: I'm like, how many times did they get? They trans
45:34
Speaker 1: for me at least four times, and so every time
45:37
Speaker 1: the call was transferred, my nerves got more and more
45:41
Speaker 1: terrified and scary. He finally got on the phone. I
45:45
Speaker 1: hear his voice, like it's him, it's his voice. I
45:48
Speaker 1: don't even know what to barely say anymore. I had
45:50
Speaker 1: some script written down, but you know, I start talking
45:53
Speaker 1: to him and he was super friendly and really encouraging
45:56
Speaker 1: and saying he heard what I've been working on and
45:58
Speaker 1: he knows that I'm writing and producing my stuff and
46:01
Speaker 1: he really loves that and keep that up. And that's
46:04
Speaker 1: when he invited me to Paisley Park. So I told him.
46:06
Speaker 1: I asked him if I could put it on the album,
46:08
Speaker 1: and he said, why don't you come to Paisley Park
46:10
Speaker 1: and play it for me. I was like, okay, it's
46:13
Speaker 1: like an audition. It's fantastic. So that was that was nuts.
46:18
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the craziest phone calls in my life,
46:21
Speaker 1: and you go, how long afterwards? How long did it
46:23
Speaker 1: take you to go to Paisley Park to play it for?
46:26
Speaker 1: Wasn't that long after because we were still trying to
46:28
Speaker 1: get it cleared, and he kind of made it seem
46:29
Speaker 1: like if I came and played, maybe he'd be more inclined.
46:32
Speaker 1: So I'm pretty sure we went quite quickly. And he
46:35
Speaker 1: has a whole audience of like hardcore prince lovers in
46:39
Speaker 1: an auditory. Yes, first of all, it was freezing. I mean, wow,
46:44
Speaker 1: it's so cold out there as winter. Um, I have
46:47
Speaker 1: my this little tiny leather jacket that I was wearing everywhere.
46:49
Speaker 1: I don't know what was the matter with me? Why
46:51
Speaker 1: did I not have another jacket? And um? And it
46:54
Speaker 1: was super freezing over there. But it was incredible. It's
46:57
Speaker 1: a world all its own. It was all his memorabilia
47:01
Speaker 1: and incredible moments that he's been a part of and
47:05
Speaker 1: contributed to culture, to musical culture, which is embodied all
47:09
Speaker 1: right there. And the doves and the purple and the
47:12
Speaker 1: pianos with writing on it, and the outfits from Purple Rain,
47:15
Speaker 1: and I mean it was literally stunning. It was the
47:19
Speaker 1: most beautiful place I ever saw. And then you know,
47:22
Speaker 1: for him to have this kind of performance space where
47:24
Speaker 1: the diehards could come and just like be a part
47:27
Speaker 1: of his girl. It was nuts. And he becomes a
47:31
Speaker 1: friend afterwards, definitely. He definitely became a mentor and a
47:36
Speaker 1: friends who checked in on me and would often come
47:39
Speaker 1: to my shows. He would often talk to me about
47:42
Speaker 1: the hard things, you know, as a performer, as a
47:45
Speaker 1: as an artist whose whose music is starting to reach
47:49
Speaker 1: new places and new people, and what that was, and
47:53
Speaker 1: the on the business side and ownership and being in
47:56
Speaker 1: control of what we create, and also just you know,
48:00
Speaker 1: even like sonically how it sounded at the shows. And
48:03
Speaker 1: he was very very specific. He didn't just come to
48:07
Speaker 1: like chill. He never came to just chill. He always
48:10
Speaker 1: came with an intention and a purpose and something to
48:12
Speaker 1: teach me. And so even though every time I spoke
48:15
Speaker 1: to him, I was just terrified and I was trying
48:17
Speaker 1: not to cry because he told me my sound, you know,
48:20
Speaker 1: just didn't translate well in that show, and I'd be like, oh, no,
48:23
Speaker 1: does that mean to sounded bad. He wasn't trying to
48:26
Speaker 1: tell me sounded bad. He wanted me to be aware
48:29
Speaker 1: that that part needed to improve, you know, And and
48:33
Speaker 1: so that in that way, he was like a big
48:35
Speaker 1: brother who would really tell you, you know, what's happening
48:38
Speaker 1: in a true way. One last thing I wanted to
48:41
Speaker 1: talk about was, you know, you just performed a Kobe's
48:45
Speaker 1: memorial service and the Grammys and Obama's inauguration. I thinking,
48:52
Speaker 1: you're in this really interesting position that very few artists
48:56
Speaker 1: are in, where you're You're like, you're the kind of prison.
49:00
Speaker 1: And we turned to m and I was thinking, who
49:03
Speaker 1: else has been that played that role in American music?
49:07
Speaker 1: And I would say, you know, maybe twenty years ago
49:08
Speaker 1: would be Paul Simon, remember after nine to eleven, he
49:12
Speaker 1: played the Boxer and he played that was a person
49:15
Speaker 1: whose music we turned to when we needed some kind
49:19
Speaker 1: of and Jordan civil rights, it would have been Harry Balafonte. Probably, Wow,
49:24
Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of I was thinking, you're in
49:27
Speaker 1: that tradition now you're like the I just wonder what
49:31
Speaker 1: that feels like. Are you aware? I mean there's a
49:33
Speaker 1: kind of responsibility that comes with that, and I kind
49:35
Speaker 1: of are you are you aware of that? And what
49:38
Speaker 1: does it? How does it make you feel? I definitely, um,
49:46
Speaker 1: I definitely know that as I've grown and as I've
49:52
Speaker 1: become more comfortable than my skin and more truly who
49:56
Speaker 1: I am, that I know that there is a deep
50:01
Speaker 1: connection that we share and that we have, and I
50:04
Speaker 1: know we've always had it, but I don't think I
50:07
Speaker 1: was ready before to truly be comfortable with it, to
50:13
Speaker 1: be to be completely just so much more open and
50:22
Speaker 1: so much more able to share my truth and what
50:25
Speaker 1: I'm learning, what I'm experiencing, and even my vulnerabilities and
50:29
Speaker 1: my pains and my fears, my sadnesses, the humanness that
50:36
Speaker 1: lives in all of us that I for so long
50:38
Speaker 1: felt like I had to put into a steel box
50:43
Speaker 1: so that I could get on with each day and
50:46
Speaker 1: just get through all the demands and things like that.
50:50
Speaker 1: And so now that I'm so much more clear about
50:53
Speaker 1: the fact that part of the beauty of us is
50:56
Speaker 1: all those sides that we spoke about at the beginning
50:59
Speaker 1: this conversation station, the scary, the vulnerable, the fear, the anger,
51:04
Speaker 1: all the parts that we kind of box up and
51:06
Speaker 1: put away because they're too out of control, or they're
51:09
Speaker 1: they're too personal, or they feel too raw. I've become
51:14
Speaker 1: so much more comfortable with expressing and since i've since
51:18
Speaker 1: I have and since I have started to know myself
51:22
Speaker 1: more and be comfortable with all those parts of myself,
51:25
Speaker 1: I find that the connection has deepened in a way
51:28
Speaker 1: that I never expected and I definitely wasn't ready for
51:32
Speaker 1: before because I wasn't even ready to do that with
51:35
Speaker 1: my own self. So now that that is happening, I
51:40
Speaker 1: do see how the connection is. To your point of
51:47
Speaker 1: what you're saying, there is something there that's creating, that's
51:50
Speaker 1: creating a level of deeper understanding, a level of solace,
51:54
Speaker 1: a level of connection that creates something which just has
52:00
Speaker 1: been circumstantial because we're in a really tumultuous time and
52:05
Speaker 1: we need each other just more than ever. And so
52:10
Speaker 1: I always wanted to be purposeful. I always wanted to
52:15
Speaker 1: do things that had meaning to them and not just
52:18
Speaker 1: empty reasons. And I've been getting these beautiful opportunities that
52:23
Speaker 1: even I have not known were meant to become what
52:28
Speaker 1: they did. I just was okay showing up and comfortable
52:33
Speaker 1: enough to show up and even through to all the
52:36
Speaker 1: scary things that I personally feel, you know, all the time,
52:39
Speaker 1: when I'm going to perform or when I'm going to,
52:42
Speaker 1: you know, put something on my back and walk out
52:44
Speaker 1: with it and hope that it all goes well. You know. So,
52:48
Speaker 1: I think the openness that I am experiencing is creating
52:54
Speaker 1: that kind of connection between us and I'm I don't
52:57
Speaker 1: know when it exactly starts, but I'm really loving it
53:04
Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to more. If there's something beautiful
53:07
Speaker 1: about the fact that, like a by racial girl from
53:10
Speaker 1: Manhattan Plaza speaks for all of us. Yeah, like that's
53:13
Speaker 1: kind of that's kind of amazing. Wow, I'm loving it morning. Yeah,
53:21
Speaker 1: thank you so much. This has been so much fun
53:23
Speaker 1: and best to block. Yeah, Okay, have a good one
53:27
Speaker 1: and be safe and be careful and be good and
53:31
Speaker 1: hopefully we'll sit down and have a meal and talk. Yeah,
53:37
Speaker 1: thank you. Malisha Key's book More Myself a Journey is
53:45
Speaker 1: out now and a new album, Alicia, comes out in
53:48
Speaker 1: May fifteen. I can stream some of the artists and
53:52
Speaker 1: songs she mentioned in her conversation with Malcolm at Broken
53:55
Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com. Broken Record is produced with help
53:58
Speaker 1: from Jason Gambrell, Mela bell Lea Rose, Matt Leboza, and
54:02
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Our theme musics by Kenny Beats.
54:07
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond, thanks for listening,