Latest / We Got Next / To Podcast or Not to Podcast: Our Marvel Comics Comps, Go-To Players for Tea, and Why We Love to Love Women’s Sports

Transcript

To Podcast or Not to Podcast: Our Marvel Comics Comps, Go-To Players for Tea, and Why We Love to Love Women’s Sports · We Got Next

• 0:00
  Michelle: Welcome, bienvenidos, to We Got Next, a podcast for fans of by fans, where we center athletes who identify as women, femmes, and thems, and who are changing the game on and off the court, the field, the pitch, the pool, and more. This week, we're kinda doing like an origin story podcast about myself, Michelle, and week, we're kinda doing like an origin story podcast about myself, Michelle, and
• 0:22
  Filiberto: Filiberto.
• 0:24
  Michelle: Just kind of giving everyone a feel for like why a podcast and kind of a little bit of our background as storytellers, social justice advocates, and most importantly, women's sports fans. So let's just get started again with our origin story. First off, before we start, who would you be if you were a Marvel character?
• 0:51
  Filiberto: Who would you be if I was a Marvel character?
• 0:53
  Michelle: Yes. Speaking of origin stories.
• 0:55
  Filiberto: I did not think about that at all. No. Yeah. No. I think about so I think the Incredible Hulk is like a really interesting
• 1:01
  character because I think he actually really speaks to PTSD and some of the effects of PTSD.
• 1:07
  So not that I think I'm a raging person or anything like that, but the sort of things that change for you when you have PTSD or when you're elevated or whatever, I think he represents that.
• 1:17
  Michelle: Yeah. Nice.
• 1:18
  Filiberto: I'm gonna go for that.
• 1:19
  Michelle: Good one off the top of your head. I like that. Awesome.
• 1:23
  Filiberto: Appreciate it. What about you?
• 1:27
  Michelle: I would probably go with, like, Catwoman. Just because...
• 1:32
  Filiberto: That might not be a Marvel character.
• 1:33
  Michelle: Oh. Oh, it's DC, isn't it?
• 1:35
  See, I'm not enough of a nerd to ask that question.
• 1:39
  Filiberto: Answer it correctly.
• 1:39
  Michelle: Yeah. Okay. Marvel. Okay.
• 1:41
  Filiberto: Was I, is Incredible Hulk even a Marvel character?
• 1:44
  Yeah. Right?
• 1:45
  Michelle: Yeah. He is.
• 1:45
  Filiberto: He's a Marvel. Yeah. We know that. Marvel. Just just remember y'all, this podcast isn't about Marvel characters.
• 1:51
  Yeah. So, you know.
• 1:52
  Michelle: I'm just gonna stick to Catwoman because
• 1:54
  Filiberto: Yeah. Whatever.
• 1:55
  Michelle: I love cats. And not that I'm a huge comic book person, but just watching the original Batman movies, like, really loved those action movies. And it was, like, the first time watching, like, a woman just, like, call out sexism and, like, and just, like, really, like, take on that persona of a cat as, like, a human. Like, I just thought that was fucking awesome.
• 2:17
  Filiberto: Are you talking about the original TV show or, like, the
• 2:19
  Michelle: No. I'm thinking of although, Eartha Kitt is fricking amazing.
• 2:21
  Filiberto: Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about.
• 2:23
  Michelle: No. I'm thinking of, like, Michelle Pfeiffer.
• 2:24
  Filiberto: Okay. So that okay.
• 2:25
  Michelle: And creepy, what's his face? Christopher Walken.
• 2:29
  Filiberto: Like Christopher Walken.
• 2:30
  Michelle: She played her boss who, like, pushed her out the window. Like, creepy guy. He's always been great as that
• 2:37
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Michelle: Scary, you know, person.
• 2:41
  Filiberto: And then Catwoman eventually again with Anne Hathaway.
• 2:44
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 2:44
  Filiberto: Sort of.
• 2:45
  Michelle: I'm still that's how old I am. I'm still, like I mean, they're both great.
• 2:48
  Filiberto: I thought you were talking about the original TV shows. That's how old I am.
• 2:51
  Michelle: Well, my parents loved watching that. So
• 2:54
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 2:59
  Michelle: Why did you -- I know this is not your first podcast, but, like, why did you wanna start a podcast?
• 3:05
  Filiberto: I think that what we saw as going to a lot of basketball games, and we watched the Final Four or the March Madness pretty intensely last year and again this year. But it just seemed like there were... the podcasting is different than when I did it fourteen years ago. There just weren't as many. It was a smaller space, but now everyone has a podcast. And so the first thought I had when we were thinking about this was, no, the world doesn't need more podcasts.
• 3:31
  Michelle: Exactly.
• 3:32
  Filiberto: But going to a lot of games and then just sort of observing the, the media atmosphere around it, there are tons of podcasts from players and, like, professional journalists, but very few just, like, fan developed podcasts, just casual people like us that, you know, don't necessarily have a vested interest other than our own enthusiasm.
• 3:51
  Michelle: Like, there's a lot of, there's lot of podcasts by, like, journalists and, like, players, former players.
• 3:55
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 3:55
  Michelle: This was a little different.
• 3:56
  Filiberto: Even current players too. But Yeah. This feel if so it felt like that's a saturated space, and those are that's a great conversation.
• 4:02
  Michelle: We cannot compete with those podcasts.
• 4:04
  Filiberto: not even trying to. to.
• 4:05
  Just that we're not even on the same conversation, but it just seemed like having a fan -devoted experience was a good idea. And then also we were going to so many games as season ticket holders. It's like, we actually talk about this quite a bit and interact with the game quite a bit. So it's like, how do we even take our fandom to the next level?
• 4:21
  And having a podcast where we can invite people to interview and not just the players, but folks that are helping and doing all these different things. That seemed like a good space for us as former labor journalists or I'm a former labor journalist, but we're both former union peoples, "union thugs."
• 4:39
  Michelle: Yeah. I think, like, I agree with all of that. I remember when I was like, back in the day when I was a reporter for newspapers, and we were just just starting to get into multimedia, the digital space, learning new skills. And we were doing a lot of short videos, but also just kinda slideshows with photos. And they needed someone to narrate, just like thirty seconds or something.
• 5:04
  And so I would do a few and people are like, you have a really great voice. And it kinda goes back to the thing like, you have a great voice for radio or for podcast. I'm like, thanks. I have a good face for that. So that was a little bit of my experience.
• 5:21
  But, yeah, I think also just it's a lot of the sports coverage, whether you're talking about journalists or just fans in general, seems to be very bro-y. It seems to be really white sometimes. And so I'm hoping that this podcast can help uplift the perspectives and the stories, the lived realities of people of color, especially women of color, and people who identify as women. Right? And I just wanna I also like you mentioned, like, uplifting stories from people who don't always get their flowers. So like the ushers at the arenas, the the people who are, you know, who are underneath those heavy, hot mascot outfits or the people who are coming onto the court and wiping up the sweat so people don't get injured and slip on the court.
• 6:15
  Right? So
• 6:16
  Filiberto: We never hear from their perspective. And so
• 6:18
  I think it's just gonna be fun. I wanna hear from the folks that drop those Sephora bags.
• 6:22
  Michelle: Yeah. Exactly.
• 6:23
  Filiberto: During the
• 6:23
  Vakyries games.
• 6:24
  Michelle: Exactly.
• 6:24
  Filiberto: What did
• 6:25
  they give them rafters?
• 6:26
  Michelle: I think there's some really cool stories to tell. And I'm like, I think this is a unique kind of like platform to do
• 6:31
  Filiberto: that.
• 6:32
  Absolutely.
• 6:33
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 6:41
  Filiberto: So, Michelle, why the term We Got Next?
• 6:46
  Michelle: Yeah. We kind of batted around a lot of different terms. Think just kind of the idea of if you're playing pool or like you're waiting for the neighborhood basketball court, it's like just kind of putting your mark and saying we got the next game. Got you know, we'll play who's next. But also just this idea that women's basketball, women's sports in general, I mean, we're talking about hockey, we're talking about soccer.
• 7:08
  They've made a lot of progress in getting the respect and the compensation and the investments that they deserve. And we're kinda at this inflection point. And I'm super excited to see where these leagues, where these athletes go next. So I think that's part of the thing, too is like we're there's like this evolution happening, this transformation happening for a lot of women athletes. And I just wanna like be part of that.
• 7:32
  I think that's where the idea for the podcast came, is like the next generation. Right? The next the next round. The next kind of moment on that timeline of the evolution of women's sports. I think it's really exciting.
• 7:45
  And so I kind of that's one of reasons I like that title for the podcast. What about you?
• 7:49
  Filiberto: Yeah. And I played a lot of street ball growing up and sort of when you said when we were on the court and you say we got next, it doesn't always mean a polite conversation. Right? It's like we got next
• 8:01
  Michelle: It's like a challenge.
• 8:01
  Filiberto: We got next, homie.
• 8:02
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 8:03
  Filiberto: But it also is often but more often than not, it's an invitation to be part of that basketball community. And so I think that's kind of the way I see it. It's a it's an invitation, not just in the ways that we relate to the basketball game and the Valkyries and everything else, but it's just also an invitation and recognition that for a lot of women's sports, in particular the WNBA, it's a lot of small producers.
• 8:23
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 8:24
  Filiberto: Like, there hasn't really been like, so far, we see a lot of, you know, men's basketball beat reporters, then sort of maybe taken on talking about the women's teams in their local markets.
• 8:35
  Michelle: Like it's an afterthought.
• 8:36
  Filiberto: Yeah. And so the folks that are the most invested, the most serious are all small producers. Some of them are making some money, a lot of them aren't. And so I think that's also part of the We Got Next attitude is is we want to be part of that, like, hey, you're up next, buddy. Like, produce your show, get yourself going, you're doing great, that kind of thing.
• 8:53
  So it's we see ourselves as part of a community of producers as well. And so we also want to have them on our podcast as well. All those different voices that are out there.
• 9:01
  Michelle: That's right. Reach are out. WeGotNext.org.
• 9:03
  Filiberto: Yeah. We wanna talk to you. It's gonna be chill. Aren't we nice people? You wanna be in this conversation?
• 9:08
  Michelle: I think so.
• 9:09
  Filiberto: Yeah. So a little more about our background. Tell us about the inner Michelle, Michelle.
• 9:16
  Michelle: The what Michelle?
• 9:17
  Filiberto: The inner Michelle.
• 9:18
  Michelle: Inner Michelle. The evolution of Michelle.
• 9:22
  Filiberto: Who's the person behind the microphone and the giant headset?
• 9:25
  Michelle: The giant headset. Umm. Yeah. I think like my introduction to sports is similar to a lot of people, at least of like of our age group, right? Like people who grew up in the eighties and nineties, like my family, like middle class, small town.
• 9:42
  So I grew up watching like football and a little bit of basketball, some baseball, super I'm from Northern California, so a lot of times used go 49er stuff, going to the games, miss you Candlestick. I don't know how my mom and I got into following Pat Summitt and the Tennessee women's basketball program, but we did. And so and but back then, you couldn't you know, being out in California, couldn't really watch a lot of games, so March Madness was always a thing. Like, that's when we watched the women play. My mom still likes watching the boys March Madness, but I was not really into it even when I was younger.
• 10:23
  But, I just loved I loved Pat Summitt's approach. I have a lot of family from the Midwest, like her accent and just kind of like a lot of her like work ethic and a lot of her slogans and stuff kinda reminded me of a lot of my family members. And her intensity was entertaining to watch. And so that's kinda like how my mom and I would bond a little bit. My birthday is also in March.
• 10:47
  So it's just like a it's like one of my favorite times of the year. You're starting to come out of that winter and you're like getting into like the nice weather and stuff. It's
• 10:54
  Filiberto: Like a true Midwesterner. Stated like a true Midwesterner.
• 10:56
  Michelle: Yes, exactly. And I remember the WNBA starting, but it was hard to watch the games. They weren't even on TV. Even when I was young, it felt weird the way they were marketing the players. They were very stylized, a lot of weird makeup, the clothing they were wearing, they just didn't like, the vibe I got from them was, like, they were not comfortable.
• 11:24
  Some of them absolutely maybe were and just weren't comfortable with photo shoots, but it was just kind of like
• 11:31
  Filiberto: It was the male gaze being
• 11:32
  Michelle: Exactly.
• 11:33
  Filiberto: The way they were presenting themselves.
• 11:34
  Michelle: I didn't have that word those words back then. Right? But that's kind of like what I think I was picking up on. It just felt like uncomfortable.
• 11:41
  And there was like yeah. There was no marketing. It was just the way it was treated was like patting, you know, these athletes on the head and like, "good job, like, for a girl." Like, that's just kind of like how I remember that.
• 11:53
  Filiberto: And we'll send some of those images in the show notes, too, so y'all can see what we're talking about. Because it is striking.
• 11:57
  Michelle: It's very different from today when you're doing, like, the tunnel fits and stuff like that.
• 12:01
  Filiberto: And the
• 12:01
  way these women represent themselves too. Like, there's an early Dawn Staley. She looks bold and interesting, but it's not the Dawn Staley you would recognize now.
• 12:12
  Michelle: So yeah, but I, I do remember I'd seen the last ten years, the league's grown. I think a lot of the athletes have kinda come into their own and they felt secure and safe enough to start speaking up for themselves and for their, their colleagues and for just the the game of women's sports. And for basketball players, I'm just was really proud to see the players, not the teams, not the owners, but the players start taking on a lot of social justice items, especially with the killing of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd by police. And just like, you know, deciding not to play games, making sure they're wearing shirts, "say her name," "say his name," "say their name." Just making a lot of statements, trying to bring attention, trying to use their platforms for good.
• 13:06
  And that has really made me proud. And they were some of the first athletes to really start, like, as a league, as a collective. I think they were even in front of the NBA in in many respects.
• 13:17
  Filiberto: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
• 13:18
  Michelle: And this is about the time Colin Kaepernick was, you know, kneeling and other players were trying to support him. So I like, I was watching games before that, but that's when I really was like, I'm gonna invest. I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna pay for the League Pass, the WNBA. I'm gonna start really paying attention to, like, the reporting and these people coming out of it. And, you know, I've definitely noticed some of the like, a lot of stuff I, I noticed when the league was starting is still there.
• 13:48
  Like, a lot of the traditional media, it's still a bunch of dudes. It's still a bunch of white dudes who are covering the teams. The editors, the producers, also white guys, part of that male gaze aspect. So I even remember like when I was going through journalism school, I covered sports. I, I could you know, I watched a lot of sports.
• 14:10
  I could hang with the male athletes, the female athletes, but like, I just didn't see a future for me in journalism that way. Because it just felt very hyper masculine even if even if you were covering like a variety of sports or a variety of different stories to tell. So, like, it didn't even dawn on me until, like, I thought about this a couple weeks ago. I was like, "why didn't I go into sports journalism?" But it just didn't feel like it was a place for me.
• 14:37
  Filiberto: Well, I think for folks that don't know, journalism itself is still pretty white, and sports journalism is, like, the whitest part of I mean, maybe that and business journalism, but that's those those are the whitest parts of whitest and malest parts of journalism.
• 14:49
  Michelle: So it's And then it hasn't changed.
• 14:51
  Filiberto: More severe. Yeah.
• 14:51
  Michelle: Yeah. And, yeah, just so I was I got my degree in journalism. I was a reporter covering education. So kindergarten to twelfth grade and some higher ed for colleges. I did that for about ten years at newspapers in California.
• 15:05
  And then I switched over to advocacy journalism. I was advocacy communications, I'd say. And I've worked for a few unions kind of just telling that story of workers and what kind of they're fighting for in their respective industries. As far as serving the public, most, the unions I've worked for have been for public employees and what it takes to serve the taxpayers with public projects, whether it's education or working as an engineer for the city. And then, yeah, that I'm here and I'm doing a podcast and I've never done this before.
• 15:42
  And it's little scary, but it's alright.
• 15:44
  Filiberto: Congratulations.
• 15:46
  Michelle: What about you? Like, what's what's brought you to this point? What's your story?
• 15:52
  Filiberto: Yeah, I think when I think about where my journalism and advocacy and like learning how to podcast comes from filmmaking for me and just dealing with linear editing, But it all kind of starts in the, in Guatemala in 2004. I was there for a Watson Fellowship traveling around the world, and I spent six months in Guatemala looking at post conflict civil society. And a community I was working with was massacred by the government. I was with them a lot the day before. Wasn't I with them the day of, but they hit me up and I was there the next day to document and just connect with them.
• 16:21
  They were in all in hiding. It took a while to get a hold of people. And I think, you know, that sort of that need to document and that need to tell a story was very visible and urgent at that time. But that sort of urgency never really stopped. And eventually, I moved to Minnesota, and I was there for a decade.
• 16:39
  And I worked for this organisation that had a speaker series. And so I was just new to town walking around being like, "hey, you're interesting. You wanna be part of the speaker series?" Just really getting to know people real easy. But I realized that we had a hard time getting people to come to the speaker series because there was no foot traffic.
• 16:57
  So what I realized was in order to not waste the person's time and make them feel crappy that nobody showed up to their talk
• 17:03
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 17:03
  Filiberto: I could just record it. And our audience was national, so they can get a piece of what the programming was locally in Minnesota. And so that's where my podcasting started was sort of examining the BIPOC, mostly Latino, culture in Minneapolis, ended up being an arts podcast. When I took it over myself and left the organization, I focused more on arts and and arts and television or arts and culture.
• 17:25
  And I just loved it. I loved the storytelling part. So coming back to that, I didn't think I was ever gonna do a podcast again. But when, you know, Michelle and I started dating, we started watching women's basketball. And it was just like listening to players talk about their lives was just they're just such good interviews.
• 17:43
  Like, the women's basketball players are such good interviews. It's different for the men. I don't you know, we can speculate as to the difference later, but I don't really care. The point is that it's just they're compelling.
• 17:52
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 17:52
  Filiberto: And then watching someone like A'ja Wilson play is compelling. The way she can move, the way she just organizes herself, the way she leads the team. So there's just to me, you know, there was just a lot of really good storylines coming into women's basketball. But then also for me personally, I was at a point in my life where I was doing a lot of trauma recovery work. And a lot of that work made me question masculinity and question my relationship to sports because I realized that a big part of my interest in sports had to do with the way I was performing masculinity.
• 18:22
  And for so many of us growing up, that masculinity gets beaten into us, literally and figuratively.
• 18:27
  Michelle: Mhmm.
• 18:28
  Filiberto: And so in the pandemic, I just really stopped watching sports. And then, again, when we started dating and then moved in together, we just watched a lot of sports. You're like, yo, "we're gonna watch sports, buddy." And I was like, okay. And I can watch women's basketball.
• 18:39
  Michelle: Fair warning.
• 18:39
  Filiberto: Yeah. And I was like, alright.
• 18:41
  Michelle: Even if it's not even even if we, like, have a game on the background while we're cooking dinner or something, like, there's gonna be sports on
• 18:47
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Michelle: In the living room most of the time.
• 18:49
  Filiberto: And while we're just talking about the Valkyries, you know, we watch women's basketball. We're watching Unrivaled. Anything that's out there that's featuring women's sports in in terms of basketball, we also watch other things, but we are predominantly focused on basketball. So I think, you know, women's basketball has brought me back to sport in a really interesting way that I didn't expect. And there's more consent for me here, like choosing to watch women's sports rather than feeling like I was fulfilling this male masculine obligation because of what was beaten into me.
• 19:23
  Michelle: Well, yeah, a lot of, like, sports coverage is kind of telling you what's important or what you should be watching, what you should be consuming.
• 19:30
  Filiberto: But with with and this is kind of the nice thing about not having that broader media atmosphere is we get to tell the story of how you should or not should, but we get to tell a story of how we consume the content and how we interact with the media. Like we watch the press conferences afterwards. We read as much as we can. And so I think that's part of what we're doing, too. is for folks that are already following, we're just a supplement. For folks that are new to the game, congratulations, you got here.
• 19:55
  We're gonna give you a lot of resources to understand what's going on, to understand the players, understand some of the language that's being used. So I think, you know, that's where a lot of it comes from for me. And then just growing up where I did in LA, in Eastern LA, Montebello, we were poor. We didn't have as much money, and we just play I played a lot of basketball on the street all the time in the old, you know, there's no no what what is it? No Blood, No Foul League.
• 20:20
  That's that's how I played. And, you know, and I wasn't particularly good, but I was enthusiastic. And I just loved I just loved playing. And I think watching women play, you could see the love there. You could see the sort of camaraderie, the the way they relate to each other.
• 20:37
  And it's just a it's just beautiful to watch. And being live at a Valkyrie's game in a really Black, queer environment is just really great. So, for those of you that have wondered whether you should go to a Valkyrie's game, just go. Just go pick up a ticket. Just go.
• 20:49
  Michelle: Any women's basketball.
• 20:51
  Filiberto: Absolutely. We're we're mostly talking to Valkyrie's fans. But yeah. Anyone, just pick up a ticket. Get yourself there.
• 20:56
  It's still affordable. Before it gets gentrified and you can't afford it anymore, just get in there. Absolutely.
• 21:02
  Michelle: Yeah. And, like, going back to what you're saying about, like, women like, the women athletes that you're talking about, like, just really loving what they're doing. That's like, they've had to fight really hard to get to where they're at. And I, and I think that's happened for men in the past, but not recently. Right?
• 21:17
  Filiberto: They've been years from the fight. Yeah. You're right.
• 21:19
  Michelle: And I think women have had to fight for, to be included for that inclusivity. And, like, just the most recent Collective Bargaining Agreement for the women's basketball is like, that was a huge campaign for the players. And this is the first time there was a lot of media attention around it. And, yeah, that was a fight to get what they have. And it's not where they wanna be.
• 21:44
  Right? They didn't get everything they wanted to.
• 21:45
  Filiberto: They deserve more.
• 21:46
  Michelle: But they they got closer to that dignity and that respect that they deserve. So that's that's kind of probably what you're seeing is, like, there's they're, they're still active in that struggle and that fight for equity and inclusiveness. And, yeah, I should I just wanna go back to also I should mention my limited playing throughout my life was
• 22:08
  Filiberto: Gotta be transparent.
• 22:09
  Michelle: Exactly. Again, this this may a lot of listeners may relate to this. But yeah, back in junior high, my like, I think it like eighth grade, my eighth grade history teacher. He coached the girls basketball team and he was short a few people. So he kinda like begged me to play, I think, if I remember that correctly.
• 22:30
  Mr. Larsen, tell me if I'm not, reach out. But, yeah, definitely a bench player. But we like, it kinda sucks because it's like it's a small town, so we practiced on, like, an asphalt course. So and we were playing. So if you fell, you, like, scraped your elbow, you scraped your knee.
• 22:48
  That was not
• 22:48
  Filiberto: You're feeling out the next day.
• 22:49
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 22:51
  But then I didn't try in high school. I had a parent who was very anxious, very concerned about getting, me or my sister getting injured and how expensive the insurance would be. Both my parents worked for private sector and high deductibles type thing, which a lot of people are experiencing today, too. Unfortunately, that hasn't changed. And then I was playing basketball in high school in PE of all places, and I ended up tearing my meniscus in a game or a fake PE game.
• 23:25
  So I was also trying out for track that year. So just really horrible timing. I was still trying to run track, but my knee just wasn't gonna
• 23:32
  Filiberto: Had to retire.
• 23:32
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 23:33
  So basically, I ended my my quote unquote career playing.
• 23:36
  Filiberto: We should definitely record a retirement press conference for you. I think it's important.
• 23:40
  Michelle: We should. But I do have photos
• 23:42
  Filiberto: You know, thirty years later.
• 23:43
  Michelle: Of me in my PE clothes as part of my outfit for the basketball team, my uniform. So, I can try to digitize those and and post those on our Instagram. It's it's pretty awesome. I I look the same, by the way.
• 23:55
  Filiberto: I definitely played in the YMCA basketball league, and there was definitely a participation trophy. That's not a joke. They really do offer those.
• 24:01
  Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. And my parents would be remiss if I didn't also mention I did gymnastics for a couple of years. There was this really cool, like, dance studio that also offered gymnastics classes. So I did that for a bit when I was a little bit younger and my sister and I both did some dance.
• 24:15
  So they paid for those classes. So they'd want me to mention that. So yeah, I did a little bit when I was younger, but nothing like near as serious as what these awesome athletes are doing.
• 24:26
  Filiberto: Yeah, definitely. I guess my most athletic commitment has been CrossFit. I've done that off and on for the last, you know, fifteen years, so not all those fifteen years. And I think that's just taught me a lot of value around, it's taught me the value of, like, movement and looking at movement and noticing things about the way people feel based on how they're moving and all these different layers of it. So I definitely appreciated that.
• 24:48
  But one thing you reminded me of, going back to our bios is, you know, like I mentioned, I was a reporter in Minnesota, and I was a reporter during the murder of George Floyd. And, you know, like I mentioned before, I covered a massacre as my first journalism project. So when that when those dynamics of the state government coming down, the National Guard coming down and feeling really threatened by possible white supremacists attacking the city, it didn't feel unfamiliar, which was the confusing, but sort of scary, but also sort of expected thing from the PTSD is it felt similar to what the agony that we've experienced growing up in LA, the things I saw in Guatemala. So it was a moment where you felt so connected to everyone because everyone was having the same experience, but you're terrified. And when the women of the Minnesota Lynx started being more vocal about their support and observance of what was happening to us
• 25:41
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 25:42
  Filiberto: You know, we knew we were getting a lot of reporting being done. The New York Times was there every day, but the way they were representing us was just really skewed. And so it it felt nice. It just felt really good for a lot of us that those Lynx were speaking for us and speaking out about what we were experiencing. And it gave us a sense, at least for me, it gave me a sense of, like, comfort, really.
• 26:02
  And so I definitely will always appreciate those women just for the stand that they took then and just the comfort they gave to us in a really trying and sort of what felt really hopeless time.
• 26:12
  Michelle: Mhmm. Yeah.
• 26:14
  Filiberto: Yeah. So and then, you know, and I got to see the Minnesota Lynx in the WNBA finals 2015. I just ran randomly went to a game with my partner at the time. So if you care about championships in Minnesota, you gotta follow the Lynx. Because at that time, especially, the Twins were awful.
• 26:28
  The Wild may not have even been a team then. I don't remember exactly.
• 26:32
  Michelle: The hockey team?
• 26:33
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 26:33
  Michelle: No. They were around back then.
• 26:34
  Filiberto: They were around back then? Okay. Because they reconstituted themselves at some point. Yeah. The, yeah, the Vikings were not good.
• 26:40
  So, yeah, if you're looking for quality sports, the Minnesota Lynx were where it was at. And it's still true today, but even more so than during those dynasty years.
• 26:49
  Michelle: Yeah. They need to, like, the city needs to wait. Minnesota's a whole state.
• 26:53
  Filiberto: Yeah.
• 26:54
  Michelle: The state needs to have a state holiday for Cheryl Reeve.
• 26:57
  Filiberto: Mhmm.
• 26:58
  Michelle: She's just a fantastic coach and
• 27:00
  Filiberto: she gets a bust at the state capital.
• 27:02
  Michelle: Yeah. Exactly. She should. She get she should get her own statue somewhere by the state capital. Speak you know, there's lot of women's athlete statues going around.
• 27:10
  Filiberto: Mhmm.
• 27:16
  Michelle: Yeah. Let's let's touch okay. Let's explain a little bit, like, why we're talking about the Valkyrie so much. So, we are in Northern California.
• 27:25
  We're based in Sacramento.
• 27:26
  Filiberto: Beautiful Sacramento, California. Yeah. You haven't visited, please come by.
• 27:30
  Michelle: And so Sacramento used to have a WNBA team, the Sacramento Monarchs with Kara Lawson played for. And they've actually have had they had a championship when they were here.
• 27:40
  Filiberto: They're they're up in the rafters still. You can still see it at the old what's it called again? The arena?
• 27:45
  Michelle: Oh, they're it was Arco Arena.
• 27:47
  Filiberto: Yeah. Back in the day.
• 27:48
  Michelle: And now the new one that's kinda downtown is called Golden Golden One Center.
• 27:51
  Filiberto: Golden One Center. Yeah.
• 27:54
  Michelle: But anyways, they they were one of the teams that unfortunately, when the league was contracting, a lot of teams are leaving their cities or just going
• 28:03
  Filiberto: Or just folding.
• 28:04
  Michelle: Just folding. They're one of the ones that we lost. So when we heard that the WNBA was expanding and they were looking for areas to expand and they chose Golden State. The owners from the Golden State Warriors wanted to start a WNBA team. And I remember you and I were like, alright.
• 28:27
  Whenever whenever we start hearing that they're accepting deposits or whatever, let's put it down.
• 28:32
  Filiberto: Let's do it. Let's be part of this.
• 28:33
  Michelle: It is a bit of a drive, a bit of a travel from Sacramento to San Francisco for these games. But it's one those things where it's like, we kinda block out our calendar from May to September. We know it's happening. That's kinda where we're spending just a lot of our free time is going there. Super excited to do that.
• 28:51
  Filiberto: And we don't have kids. We have a cat. So Yes. We have the time and resources to devote ourselves to this. Yeah.
• 28:56
  We don't go to every game. Yeah. But we do go to as many as we can, usually on the weekends.
• 29:01
  Michelle: Yeah. We are miserable cat people. Child, childless miserable cat people.
• 29:06
  Filiberto: That's right.
• 29:07
  With pride. We have the t shirts. We we even have the t shirts.
• 29:11
  Michelle: Yes. We do. So, yeah, that's kind of like that's our home team. That's our ride or die. Really great atmosphere.
• 29:19
  We are what they call part of the founding guard.
• 29:23
  Filiberto: I got a jacket. I'm really proud of this jacket.
• 29:25
  Michelle: Like a letterman's jacket. That yeah. You would need it in San Francisco because it's cold and windy and cloudy, but you haven't gotten to wear it a lot over there because it's, like, been warm.
• 29:34
  Filiberto: Yeah. When
• 29:34
  Michelle: we're going as well.
• 29:36
  Filiberto: Only, like, a third of the season can I wear it reasonably before it starts sweating?
• 29:39
  Michelle: When when you're in Sacramento, it's way too warm in the summer. Yeah. There's no point. It's a winter jacket.
• 29:43
  Filiberto: Or it's too cold for it because it's not Yeah. All that functional. It's not that functional of a jacket.
• 29:47
  Michelle: Yeah. At least for us, it's, you know, mainly in Sacramento.
• 29:50
  Filiberto: But when I wear it though, people love it. I get I get high fives everywhere. Like, I feel
• 29:54
  Michelle: Even in Sacramento.
• 29:55
  Filiberto: Yeah. No. It's nice. Yeah.
• 29:59
  Michelle: So that's kind of like our ride or die and we're season ticket holders. That's where we've been. But I've I mean, I've been watching W for, like, several several years. It's great to watch March Madness, follow these players throughout their college careers, and then see them make it to the WNBA. So we're like watching a lot of teams when it you know, Northern California didn't have a team.
• 30:19
  LA Sparks were kind of what I would watch. I love the, I love the Las Vegas Aces are great too.
• 30:26
  Filiberto: I mean,
• 30:26
  how can
• 30:27
  you not love A'ja Wilson?
• 30:28
  Michelle: I know. She's amazing. And and Chelsea Gray. Chelsea Gray, I watched when she was with the Sparks.
• 30:33
  Filiberto: Absolutely.
• 30:33
  Michelle: Just freaking amazing, like, captain, ball handler, no look passes. Like, just amazing.
• 30:40
  Filiberto: Point gawd.
• 30:41
  Michelle: Yeah. And then Unrivaled, like, they're just
• 30:43
  Filiberto: There's a lot coming down. I came I came on to women's basketball at the right time. It's a little ridiculous. Yeah. I feel bad for all you've been holding it down for so long.
• 30:50
  But, man, I'm in a I'm drinking this was it I'm drinking out of a fire hose
• 30:54
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 30:55
  Filiberto: As the white people say. It's new one to me.
• 30:58
  Michelle: Do we?
• 30:58
  Filiberto: Oh, yeah, you do. Yeah, you white people do. No doubt.
• 31:02
  Michelle: Okay. Thanks for sharing. So, again, that's one of reasons we're gonna be kind of leaning into the WNBA, but we also are gonna be talking about other women's athletes and stuff that is in pop culture, it's making the news that week. But we're definitely invested in all of it, but we're gonna have a little bit of a skew towards the WNBA and the Golden State Valkyries.
• 31:22
  Filiberto: We have opinions y'all, and you're gonna hear them. Yes. If you get to the end of the podcast, not this one, but the subsequent ones.
• 31:27
  Michelle: That's why we put it the end except to listen to everything else. Yeah. A little We skip ahead, I guess.
• 31:31
  Filiberto: No. It's a little treat. It's a little treat for all of you. You could get to the end of our normal podcast, but not this intro one.
• 31:41
  Michelle: Okay. So we're, so our last segment here is kind of like a q and a, just like some random questions to get to, again, know us a little bit better.
• 31:49
  Filiberto: Outside of the Marvel universe.
• 31:52
  Michelle: Sorry.
• 31:52
  Filiberto: Cinematic universe. That was not on the list here, folks.
• 31:55
  Michelle: It was not.
• 31:56
  Filiberto: Michelle sunk that one up on me. I was like, I wasn't ready for that.
• 31:58
  Michelle: As a good reporter slash journalist would do. Right?
• 32:01
  Filiberto: Mhmm. Not investigative journalists. I have to keep it above board lady.
• 32:06
  Michelle: So our first question to you, Fili, is what is your favorite sports moment or memory?
• 32:14
  Filiberto: So, yeah, I mentioned going to the WNBA finals in 2015. That was incredible. And I mentioned just watching A'ja Wilson play and being like, woah, this is totally what I want to watch. But, you know, as Michelle mentioned, we were season ticket holders last year. We were part of the founding guard.
• 32:30
  We played that first year and we got into the playoffs And none of us we were all hoping for it, but none of us expected it. So, you know, we didn't get that far. We lost two games in a row, but that second game where Ceci just got, just a nice opportunity to make a final shot. And that thing looked for a second like it was gonna go in. So just, again, like, not thinking we were gonna win, not feeling too confident necessarily, but feeling really good about our season, what we accomplished.
• 32:57
  Just watching her do that for a split second, just feeling the thrill of possibility. And I think that's what often sports is about is, like, the thrill of the possible and the way it pushes our imagination to think that maybe something miraculous can happen. But then also it didn't. And that's fine. Again
• 33:13
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 33:13
  Filiberto: Because we had a great season. We were there with all the fans that the San Jose Arena was rocking. It was a good feeling.
• 33:20
  Michelle: Yeah. I mean, and just like for people who weren't necessarily watching last season. So the Valkyries, first expansion team in, like, almost twenty years. So, you know, most expansion teams, not a lot's expected. Like, just kinda like build your fan base, have some great events for people.
• 33:35
  Try your best for like what your on court product's gonna be. But you know, expectations aren't super high. But the Valkyries were able to do pretty well. They won a few games they probably shouldn't have won. They made it in the playoffs as, like, the eight seed.
• 33:50
  So, yes, they had to play Minnesota in the first round. They had play the one seed in the first round, which was rough. But at least we got one home game. And unfortunately, Chase Center was booked that weekend. So no one expects you to make the playoffs your first year.
• 34:09
  Filiberto: Right. Including the owners of the team.
• 34:10
  Michelle: So, yeah. So the managers of the arena were caught off guard by that. So they had to push us somewhere else. And what made the most sense for the team, I guess, was SAP Center in San Jose. So it's like an hour drive south.
• 34:23
  There's definitely some public transit.
• 34:25
  Filiberto: It's a smaller facility too, so there weren't as many seats available.
• 34:29
  Michelle: Yeah. It's a little smaller. Definitely way older, so it's a lot of, like, cement. It's it's meant mainly for hockey. They do concerts there, but it's mainly for the San Jose Sharks and their minor league hockey team.
• 34:40
  I was in San Jose for ten years, so very familiar with the state and the arena, the area. So at least we knew, like, where to go get dinner, where to get some drinks beforehand.
• 34:48
  Filiberto: But great time for sure.
• 34:49
  Michelle: Yeah. So, like, the fact that, like, we were close enough against Minnesota to, like, make this last minute shot where we could have won the game, like, that was just amazing. No one expected that.
• 35:00
  Filiberto: Yeah. And again, everyone came out happy. Like, we weren't happy that we lost, but everyone came out like, wow, that was a great game.
• 35:05
  Michelle: Yeah. I mean, there are people who are pissed that they had to travel to go see that. But, you know, but, no, it was it was a great feeling. And it's even though it was a loss, you know, to end your season, which everyone experiences unless you actually win the championship, But it was a good way to kinda go out that you actually made the playoffs and you kind of, you know, raised that bar.
• 35:26
  Filiberto: Raised that bar for expansion teams for sure. As many are coming online in the next couple of years.
• 35:30
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 35:31
  Filiberto: So what was your favorite sports moment, Michelle?
• 35:34
  Michelle: I think for me so, yeah, huge Tennessee women's basketball fan. I remember following Candace Parker when she made it to the pros. Was one of kind of the biggest Volunteer from Tennessee to make it into the WNBA. And she struggled for like a variety of reasons. I'm actually in the middle of reading her book right now.
• 35:57
  So I'm finding out some of the tea as to some the reasons that she struggled with LA and the team struggled. She finally won a championship after seven or eight years with LA. And I remember Holly Rowe interviewing her after they won. And Candace just is overcome with emotion, she's crying. And she tells and I think this is the year that Pat Summitt either was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's or had passed away.
• 36:27
  And Candace Parker, Pat Summitt, very close. And Candace told Holly "this was for Pat." And she started just weeping and couldn't finish the interview, I think. And she had to kind of turn toward her team and just try to find the joyful tears. But that has struck Like, I was just happy that Candace was able to kinda remind people of the importance of Pat Summitt even though she was either ailing or had passed away prematurely.
• 36:58
  She was just so young. She had so much more to give to women's basketball. And I think it's a good reminder for people that she helped start women's basketball on this path. And even you could trace all women's sports, getting that respect and the investment of resources that a lot of athletes and coaches and programms are enjoying today came from your early adopters like Pat Summitt back to the 1970s, like right before Title IX. So it was just really it was a sweet moment and it just like really has stuck with me.
• 37:37
  Filiberto: Yeah. It's a powerful one.
• 37:39
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 37:43
  Filiberto: So what's been your as a reporter, we talked about this a lot. We're both reporters. We've done a lot of different things. What's been your favorite interview, Michelle?
• 37:52
  Michelle: Yeah, I can't, I did so many. I was a reporter for ten years. And like the smaller papers I was at, you kind of work your way up, right? You start your small, like, you know, 3,000 circulation papers with your goal to get to the LA Times or these big papers back in the day. So when you're at the smaller papers, you're punching out two stories a day.
• 38:16
  So it goes by fast. There's a lot of interviews. I think looking back on those years, I think, I covered education. So like being able to really tell the story of education policy or trends or whatnot from the student perspective was always really important to me. And a lot of my sources kind of pointed that out, it was really refreshing.
• 38:43
  When I covered colleges, I would go to their student body government meetings. And a few of them were like, oh, this is the first time I've had a reporter actually come to these meetings just try to see what challenges we have and what we're facing. I just remember this series I did when I was with the Modesto Bee. UC Merced had just opened and I wanted to do the story about how students pay for college, how their families are able to get them there. Merced was chosen as the next UC because you know, in the Central Valley of California, the the college going rates, the bachelor's degree rates are a little bit lower than the state average. So we're trying to like get that, those numbers up and also have opportunities for people so they can stay local.
• 39:34
  So that I don't have to go to college in LA or the Bay Area and then I end up staying there because I establish friends and professional colleagues over there.
• 39:43
  Filiberto: Create local economies really develop it.
• 39:45
  Michelle: Right. So like, there's a lot of this brain drain that happens from certain areas. So I think a lot of kinda demystifying that for people in the Central Valley was also writing about how they make it happen. Like, anyone can do this. And so a lot of people helped connect me with students and the students were gracious, courageous, trusting enough to open up their checkbooks, open up their bank accounts.
• 40:11
  Tell me what's your rent each month? What are your expenses? How much are your textbooks? Then also like how are you making that happen? Whether you're working, your parents are helping with money, scholarships, grants, like all this stuff.
• 40:24
  Like how are you making this work so we can kind of show other families from the Central Valley that they can do it too? And I just really appreciate feature students at UC Merced, CSU Stanislaus, and then a few of the community colleges, too, like kinda covering all of your bases. And it was a great series to kind of again put people in the shoes of students. Because we can talk about all these policies and initiatives, but it's usually the adults, the administrators, the principals talking, but who's actually talking to the students and telling what they're going through and how they're making it happen, how these policies are impacting them and their lives. So it was a really fun series and I just appreciate young people for being open to sharing that with everyone.
• 41:12
  Filiberto: Absolutely.
• 41:13
  Michelle: What about you?
• 41:15
  Filiberto: Yeah, I think as a laborer and investigative reporter, one of the challenges about doing that sort of work is that you're interfacing with people dealing with like one of the worst experiences of their lives, whether it's like sexual harassment at work. I've done reporting on prison labor, like a lot of different circumstances. And so there's a lot of sensitivity, empathy, and, like, case management that comes with that. Like, you're having to really just support folks and help them tell their story in a way
• 41:39
  Michelle: That's scary to go public.
• 41:41
  Filiberto: Scary. Yeah. You know, I'm a support for them. I'm listening to them.
• 41:45
  And I've built a lot of relationships out of that. But I think but I'll go back to my podcast. Like, those were longer form. They were recorded. And my most meaningful podcast was with Annette Torres, formerly of Las Cafeteras.
• 41:58
  And I think that conversation was before #metoo. So we didn't get this kind of empathy or sympathy that we would have gotten later. But she really broke open sort of challenging this narrative that Cafeteras had at the time of being like pro women and feminist and all these different things because she talked about just some of the problems in the band internally and the way they don't live up to that. So it was a conversation about integrity. It was conversation about the music scene generally.
• 42:23
  And because people took sides, there was a lot of just sort of aggressive sort of critiques of us about what we were doing and what we did. And certainly, Annette took up most of that. But secondarily, I dealt a lot of that too. But, you know, it shows the sort of power of journalism, the power of storytelling and the power of voice. And I was just happy to support Annette.
• 42:42
  And, but there were a lot of other podcasts too that I really enjoyed just because a lot of those folks are still friends of mine years and years later. Like, we really got into it. So I'll send a couple of those. But I think one of my most recent favorite podcasts was with a librarian at Sac State to where you just kind of go through the process of her sort of describing how she became an abolitionist. Like, it's not where she started from, but it's where she ended and where her voice is the strongest.
• 43:10
  And so those kind of stories are exciting too, where the person that I'm interviewing is sort of open to the conversation and we both come to conclusions about things that weren't necessarily there before. And it's just like a really sweet, tender experience for me.
• 43:25
  Michelle: Yeah. By the way, shout out to librarians.
• 43:28
  Filiberto: Always.
• 43:28
  Michelle: They are some of the most militant.
• 43:30
  Filiberto: Always.
• 43:31
  Michelle: Obviously, well informed people out there, whether it's like your city librarian.
• 43:35
  Filiberto: Highly trained, really thoughtful.
• 43:37
  Michelle: You're like elementary school librarian.
• 43:39
  Filiberto: University librarians.
• 43:40
  Michelle: Your university librarians
• 43:42
  Like the joke is you can walk in and be like, I saw this book last week. It had a red cover on it, maybe a teddy bear, and they'll know exactly what book you're talking about. Like, it's just amazing.
• 43:50
  Filiberto: Well, and then at the university level too, they're archivists. They put together collections. So I knew a woman at the University of Minnesota that was putting together, you know, the big first formative trans and queer collection of, like, archives and stuff from San Francisco. Like, it was just a lot of powerful things that librarians do.
• 44:05
  Michelle: Yeah. No. They're fantastic.
• 44:07
  Filiberto: Yeah. We're a fan of librarians on this podcast.
• 44:11
  Michelle: So, like, our next question is a little activation warning for listeners. This is a question I sometimes ask of people because a lot of people don't realize they're activists or advocates. And this kind of gets them thinking back to where their struggle, their fight for justice started.
• 44:36
  Filiberto: Or their perspective comes from. Yeah.
• 44:39
  Michelle: The class consciousness. So what is your earliest memory of injustice?
• 44:50
  Filiberto: I think the earliest memory of injustice against me, I'll have two answers to this, was when we were in elementary school, I loved playing the xylophone. Like, I love the supplemental arts programming that we had. Like, we were just able to do a lot. And then Reagan's economy just drowned us, and then they cut all that arts programming. And I just remember I still feel so much grief around that because I think it was, you know, it took me a long time to find my voice and, like, playing my little xylophone was like the first attempt to have expression.
• 45:24
  And so just have that robbed and feeling abandoned by the state and just sort of suspicious of the state because it can do that kind of arbitrary well, it felt like violence for this little person that I was. So that I think that was that always still shaped I think about that a lot. And I write it into different things. But I think the the earliest memory I have of seeing injustice happen was when we were growing up, we didn't have a lot of money. So we took the bus from to see my aunt in Ciudad Juarez.
• 45:51
  We took the bus from East LA "La limosina," for those of you that know, they're in the know. And somewhere in Arizona, we got, we got stopped and they took a mother and her two children and they were being deported, like, right in front of us. And I remember she was very young. Those kids were young.
• 46:10
  I remember asking my dad. He was just like, "no tienen papeles." They don't have papers. And I was like, what what is papers? Like, I don't Why is this misery and pain happening in front of us?
• 46:19
  Michelle: Yeah. These are human beings.
• 46:20
  Filiberto: Over papers.
• 46:21
  Michelle: Why do they need papers?
• 46:22
  Filiberto: Over what is this about? And, you know, as I'm describing it, I'll never forget that. I haven't forgotten that. I go back to that quite a bit just because it was such a stark moment. And it was also just like a little bit of survivor's guilt, too, because the rest of us just got to go on our merry way.
• 46:37
  We're all just sitting there like, what the fuck just happened? But didn't happen to us. So we just kind of went along. Yeah, that's how our and so that's kind of the theme, I guess, and some of what I'm saying in this podcast or this episode is the arbitrary power of state violence is real. And it just shows up a lot, especially depending on whether you're a woman, whether you're person of color, whether you're trans, whether you're disabled, whatever.
• 46:58
  It's a disproportionate experience. But yeah, that's shaped me quite a bit growing up.
• 47:04
  Michelle: Yeah. I can see that. And what's happening today is probably bringing up all those memories for you.
• 47:11
  Filiberto: Yeah. Yeah. And it's been a big part of my reporting. And, with the massacre and all these other things, just the arbitrary violence of the state against people that are diverse in some way.
• 47:23
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 47:25
  Filiberto: Just so that people can get paid really poorly to provide a service. You know? I don't like it. I don't like it. What about you, Michelle?
• 47:35
  What's your earliest memory of injustice?
• 47:40
  Michelle: I don't know how old I was, but I just remember being at school, one like in elementary school, and kinda this feeling that like it was it was at recess or lunch or after school or something. And it was like this this like pressure I was feeling to not be on the playground outside in the sun, in the fresh air with the boys, like on the jungle gym or the side or anything. But like, I should be indoors playing with dolls and playing house. And and I was just kinda like, what what is why why can't I choose? Why can't I be outdoors?
• 48:18
  And it just felt weird to me. I didn't have like the vocabulary for it. I was still young. I didn't quite understand like, oh, boys, girls, like, I didn't know that was what the division was. It just but, yeah, obviously, you go to the playground and, you know, there's not a lot of girls out there.
• 48:34
  But I just remember thinking like, this feels really unfair. Why do they care what I do? Why can't I go play?
• 48:43
  Filiberto: Why am being regulated.
• 48:43
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 48:45
  And just being told what's appropriate. And like, yeah, it just stuck with me because then then at that point, you start noticing. Yeah. And you start seeing like, yeah, why I have Barbie's at home? Why do have a Dreamhouse at home?
• 48:59
  And like other things and you start noticing that. And then yeah, soon after I started seeing how it impacted like, if I did wanna play sports, if I didn't wanna do this, there were some barriers up there. No one said no. Like, they weren't direct about it, but it was like all these unspoken, unwritten rules that I was not privy to.
• 49:20
  Filiberto: That's what makes us so malicious. We get pushed to fall into something that's not even really a rule or being presented in front of us.
• 49:27
  Michelle: And I wasn't a tomboy by any means, but I was again, it's like, I want a choice.
• 49:33
  Filiberto: I want to consent!
• 49:34
  Michelle: Why can't I choose and why are you trying to make me feel bad because of the choice that I made? It just felt really weird. And that yeah. That's just stuck with me.
• 49:47
  Especially like growing up, watching the women in my family be the ones who like held the families together, held the marriages together, and all this unacknowledged, uncompensated labor that women, that caregivers give. And just kind of like, what? What the heck? Like, this is wrong. This isn't fair.
• 50:13
  And why is that? And just that's kind of carried me to who I am today and why I wanna make sure that women's stories are told and included.
• 50:23
  Filiberto: Yeah. I think for a lot of instances, it's not necessarily the actions that we take. It's the questions that we ask that really shape our direction and the forcefulness with which we ask those questions.
• 50:33
  Michelle: Right. And I think, like, my parents would say that those questions I was asking or questioning authority, that is kinda what led me to be a journalist.
• 50:43
  Filiberto: Mhmm.
• 50:44
  Michelle: Definitely part of my personality.
• 50:46
  Filiberto: Well, speaking of journalism and just learning, what do you what do you wanna learn about via this podcast, Michelle? What do you envision Yeah. Will be your own experience doing this podcast?
• 50:57
  Michelle: Right. We're lifelong learners. Right?
• 50:58
  Filiberto: That's right. That's right.
• 51:01
  Michelle: I'm just excited to, like, tell people stories and learn more about them. People I haven't even met yet. Right? But I'm just excited to tell the stories of people that don't always get uplifted, that idea of an unsung hero. I yeah.
• 51:20
  I just wanna be just better at finding out about all the aspects that make athletes successful. I'm just really excited to learn about that and kinda a lot of the behind the scenes that we don't necessarily get to see. Yeah. And also just learn about podcasting and what this platform is and how you make it work.
• 51:46
  Like, it's just it's new to me. So I'm just excited to, like, just lean into it. What about you?
• 51:53
  Filiberto: Well, I'm thinking about my first podcast. And, you know, I didn't have necessarily a plan per se of where it would take me or what it was going to do. I was just really open to sort of pursuing it. And where it took me to was, you know, doing the podcasting, ending up being a sort of arts culture guy, even though that wasn't the goal, that's just kind of where I ended up connecting with a lot of other small producers, becoming a blogger, then eventually a journalist. That, the beginnings of that became something, again, I couldn't anticipate or predict or necessarily wanted as I started, but it kind of just embraced what was happening.
• 52:25
  And so I think I look forward to that here. It's just sort of doing what we're doing, just see where it lands and seeing who holds on to it and seeing where the audience is and just kind of being open to where it takes us. But I think aside from that, it's just about, for me, being more literate in terms of analyzing, watching, enjoying the game. As a casual fan, I wasn't looking to be that intense about it. But I think as we've spent more time preparing this podcast, it's definitely heightened my sort of urgency to learn more and to be more aware of just strategy and plays and what the coaches are doing, what the jams are doing in a way that I never really have with sports.
• 53:03
  So I think just the learning opportunity is going to be there. And, you know, we were both labor unionists. The the league is represented. The women in the league are represented by a labor union, the WNBA Players Association. And so we're gonna be talking about that quite a bit.
• 53:19
  And I think I'm really looking forward to sort of learning their strategies and tactics because I think they did a lot of impressive things that the rest of the labor movement can really pay attention to. So I think exploring that is gonna be really fun.
• 53:31
  Michelle: Yeah. And it's like adding on, I think, like, there's a lot of people like, compared to ten years ago, there's just so many more journalists and and, you know, content creators, other people out there that are trying to, like, further the game. And I'm just excited to kinda, learn from them and just, like, learn more about them and, like, their perspectives and where they're coming from and just kinda, like, help build this community and, like, this collective. It's just, it's really exciting to be a part of it.
• 53:58
  Filiberto: Absolutely. Alright. Last question, Michelle. As a you know, one of things that's when I was a reporter, I would say to people that I'm a professional gossip. Totally sort of legitimate.
• 54:09
  People used to get mad at me about my gossiping, and it wasn't great. But at that point, I was a professional gossip.
• 54:14
  Michelle: You've grown.
• 54:15
  Filiberto: Yes. So in order to get that chisme, who do you think you would sit next to?
• 54:20
  Who do think would be the source of it for you?
• 54:22
  Michelle: Okay. Who would I wanna talk reality TV with or or find out, like, who's Yeah. Who's the biggest troublemaker or the practical joker on
• 54:34
  Filiberto: How do you get into the know?
• 54:35
  Michelle: their team of their league. Okay. Yeah. I mean, if we're talking WNBA, I think the obvious choice is, like, a Courtney Williams or Natasha Heidemann, like, you know, Stud Budz. But I think a lot of what they know is already out there.
• 54:51
  Filiberto: And they're putting stuff out there. There's no secrets about them.
• 54:53
  Michelle: No, they're amazing. I'm sure they're withholding some stuff. Right? Because they know.
• 54:57
  But I mean, think, obviously, Megan Rapinoe, first off. She's been around for so long. She's such an icon. Like, she and she could probably talk a little bit, like, soccer, but also outside soccer.
• 55:12
  Filiberto: People probably share with her than she probably wants.
• 55:14
  Michelle: She she sounds like she's like like this trustworthy person that you just, like, feel comfortable with, like, right away. So it's either her or, like, someone like like Kelsey Plum, who's with the LA Sparks right now. But she's just kinda like I'm sure she has a story. She doesn't necessarily lead with it. She kinda like keeps it close.
• 55:34
  Like she has stuff to say. Yep. But she lets little things slide every once in a while and it's kinda like, oh, there's more to that story. Yeah. And I think like, I could wear her down.
• 55:44
  Like, would take a bit, but I think I could wear her down. I think she'd like to be worn down.
• 55:48
  Filiberto: I think there's probably things she needs to unload.
• 55:50
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 55:51
  Filiberto: And we'll help you with that.
• 55:51
  Michelle: She she kinda wants to.
• 55:53
  Filiberto: We'll help you with that, Kelsey.
• 55:54
  Michelle: But, like, she also knows, like, I'm a professional veteran.
• 55:57
  Filiberto: She has her things that she's working on, her businesses. Can't mess that up.
• 56:00
  Michelle: But, she doesn't she doesn't actually do a whole lot of interviews or a whole lot of podcasts. So, like, I feel there's stuff that, like, has not gotten out there because of that. And it would be it'd be great to be a friend to sit on a bench with her, you know, next to her and and get that, chisme.
• 56:14
  Filiberto: Yeah. When you're ready, Kelsey, think of us. Or not. That's fine.
• 56:19
  Michelle: What about you? Who's your person?
• 56:22
  Filiberto: Yeah. One of one of the things whenever I present about journalism, especially about investigative journalism, my oft used line is of all the things that I was looking at or researching, maybe 20, 25% of that I can actually publish. And that's because of the complexity of the pieces and getting sources and the documents and verifying things and all that. Super complicated. And I don't think anyone's gonna disagree with you on that.
• 56:44
  Michelle: Well, that's one thing I do miss about newsrooms. Like, being in the newsroom
• 56:48
  Filiberto: Being in the conversations.
• 56:50
  Michelle: And you read the story about, oh, the mayor stepped down and blah blah blah. Then you, like, go you go to that reporter and you're, like, lean over the cubicle and you're like, okay. What really happened?
• 56:57
  Filiberto: Like, hey, homie. What what's what's the part you can't publish?
• 57:00
  Michelle: You get the behind the scenes, like, what actually happened? Or like, "hey, everyone, we put the paper to bed. We're past deadline. Let's go and get some drinks."
• 57:06
  And that's when you, like, find out what happened.
• 57:08
  Filiberto: Yeah. So along those lines, definitely, I wanna talk to Holly Rowe. And I don't wanna know the things that she's already mentioned, but I wanna know the stories that she doesn't feel that are ready for print.
• 57:19
  Michelle: Yeah. When she writes a memoir or retires, like
• 57:23
  Filiberto: It's gonna be a good one.
• 57:23
  Michelle: And she's gonna withhold. She's gonna tell you, like, 5% of what she knows. But yeah. No. It's there.
• 57:30
  Filiberto: No. She's the hardest working working woman in sports journalism.
• 57:33
  So I wanna know the stories.
• 57:34
  Michelle: I know. She, like, covers three, like, three huge sporting events, like, in a weekend. Like, she flew to, like, three different places. Like, it's wild.
• 57:42
  Filiberto: She's covering the male sports and the men's national championship and all this stuff. Was like, Holly was there too. Like, what the heck? Yeah. So, yeah, Holly Rowe, when you're ready to chat, she has her own podcast too.
• 57:50
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 57:50
  Filiberto: If you wanna be on ours, that'd be dope.
• 57:51
  Michelle: She's gone through her own shit too.
• 57:53
  Filiberto: Yeah. Right. She has her own story. Yeah. She has her own narrative that's really important.
• 57:56
  Michelle: Like, come back from Yeah. Fucking survived. Like, it's it's amazing. No. She she definitely would be.
• 58:01
  Filiberto: She'd be a fun one.
• 58:02
  Michelle: That person. Yep. Definitely.
• 58:08
  Filiberto: Well, that's all we got for today, everyone. Hope you enjoyed this podcast.
• 58:11
  Michelle: Our origin stories.
• 58:12
  Filiberto: Our origin stories. This will be up for you whenever you need it. When you're like, who are these people? Or you have friends that are like, hey, we wanna listen to those folks. What are they about?
• 58:20
  You can always rely on this episode.
• 58:23
  Michelle: And we'll do we'll do others as we
• 58:25
  Filiberto: As we progress forward. We'll do little check ins every once in a while.
• 58:28
  Michelle: But also make sure you tune in to, like, our non episode zeros, like, because we're gonna debut some segments that we feel will be fan favorites. The what are we drinking
• 58:38
  Filiberto: You're gonna like that.
• 58:40
  Michelle: And then also the I'm gonna stop you right there. That's gonna be kind of our venting segment where we talk about interrupting racism, sexism, all the isms, and the phobias. So
• 58:53
  Filiberto: Just our social justice rant. It'll be a good one.
• 58:56
  Michelle: Stay tuned Every week. For those. Or Every week.
• 58:58
  Filiberto: More so. Yep. Shouldn't say every week because it may not be every week.
• 59:00
  Michelle: But
• 59:01
  Filiberto: Pretty regularly, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
• 59:04
  Michelle: Throughout the season. Throughout the season. We'll take some breaks.
• 59:06
  Filiberto: Yeah. Here and there. It's a long season, y'all.
• 59:08
  Michelle: It's gonna be it's gonna happen. It's gonna be entertaining. Make sure you join us.
• 59:11
  Filiberto: Alright. Have a good night, everybody. Or maybe not. I don't know what time of day you're watching you're listening to this. Yeah.
• 59:17
  Have a good have let me tell you what I tell people in my friend circles. I hope you have a minimally harrowing day.
• 59:24
  Michelle: That's a good one.
• 59:25
  Filiberto: I hope you do.
• 59:25
  Michelle: Especially now that we're in late stage capitalism.
• 59:28
  Filiberto: Think that's That's right.
• 59:29
  Michelle: Those are those
• 59:29
  Filiberto: things feel way to harrowing on a regular basis.
• 59:35
  Michelle: Thanks for listening and building community with us. Make sure you're following us on Instagram at pod we got next, and subscribe at wegotnextpod.org.