Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Salih Hudayar on advocating for East Turkistani and Uyghur Men | Fireside Chat 269

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Salih Hudayar on advocating for East Turkistani and Uyghur Men | Fireside Chat 269 · Honey Badger Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: All right, sorry for the late start. Everybody, Good morning,
0:04
Speaker 1: get afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. My name
0:06
Speaker 1: is Brian and this is the fire Say the Fireside Chat. Sorry. Uh,
0:11
Speaker 1: and today we have a very interesting guest. Oh I'm
0:17
Speaker 1: sorry I should have asked you how to pronounce your name?
0:20
Speaker 1: Is it Sally? Who they are? Is that how you
0:23
Speaker 1: say it?
0:24
Speaker 2: We pronounced it a Sully, like the guy off a
0:26
Speaker 2: monster z inc Oh Sully.
0:29
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, Sully cool, Okay, I can do that.
0:32
Speaker 1: And you are the official representative of East Turkestan and
0:38
Speaker 1: it's people working to end Chinese occupation. Seems like a
0:43
Speaker 1: really uh, that's like a that's a big deal, I think.
0:47
Speaker 1: And and I'm first of all humbled by you know,
0:51
Speaker 1: you coming on our show to talk about this stuff.
0:55
Speaker 1: And it's actually a really interesting topic because you know,
1:00
Speaker 1: we normally deal with things that are like you know,
1:03
Speaker 1: divorce and child custody, and we acknowledge or recognize that
1:08
Speaker 1: there are like bigger things happening, but we never really
1:11
Speaker 1: thought we'd get close to them. So first of all,
1:13
Speaker 1: i'd like to say, Sully, thank you so much for
1:16
Speaker 1: your patience. And while I got this situation worked out,
1:22
Speaker 1: and I apologize to you and to the audience for
1:25
Speaker 1: the late start. It's something that I, you know, try
1:28
Speaker 1: my best not to cause, but we had some issues
1:31
Speaker 1: with the software that I needed to go to like
1:34
Speaker 1: the support teams to get them to help me address it.
1:37
Speaker 1: But I really appreciate you taking the time to come
1:40
Speaker 1: on our show. So welcome to the show.
1:42
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
1:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, so tell me a little bit about who you
1:48
Speaker 1: are and what you do and how you learned about us,
1:53
Speaker 1: Honey Batcher Radio. What's what's that about?
1:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I actually let me ask the second part
2:00
Speaker 2: part of the question first and then going to do
2:02
Speaker 2: I am. I actually uh listened to one of your
2:06
Speaker 2: podcasts about you know, uh male Mascal masculinity and and
2:12
Speaker 2: this I found it kind of like relevant given the
2:15
Speaker 2: fact that under the authoritarian you know, Chinese occupation, initially,
2:22
Speaker 2: our men were the ones that were facing the brunt
2:25
Speaker 2: of the persecution because the Chinese government felt threatened that
2:31
Speaker 2: you know, they would rise up against the Chinese state
2:35
Speaker 2: before they started implementing the overall mass internment and genocide
2:39
Speaker 2: campaign that engulfed in our entire society, including women, children,
2:45
Speaker 2: and the elderly. So that's how I, uh, you know,
2:49
Speaker 2: learned about Honey Badger Radio. And then now answering the
2:52
Speaker 2: first part of the question coming back to who I am.
2:56
Speaker 2: My name is Sally Hudayar. I currently serve as the
2:59
Speaker 2: Foreign Minister of the East Takistan Government in Exile, which
3:03
Speaker 2: is an official entity that represents the people of Eastern
3:09
Speaker 2: Kistan on the international stage and their national liberation or
3:14
Speaker 2: national independence movement. I myself actually grew up well, was
3:19
Speaker 2: born in East ta Kistan, lived there until I was
3:23
Speaker 2: seven years old, and was forced into exile due to
3:27
Speaker 2: the Chinese government's repressive policies that you know, culminated right
3:35
Speaker 2: before you know, the general before they started implementing the
3:39
Speaker 2: official genocidal stage of the of its of its rule.
3:45
Speaker 2: I grew up in Oklahoma and Norman, Oklahoma, spent most
3:49
Speaker 2: of my life there. I had a goal of becoming
3:53
Speaker 2: a military officer. That was my childhood dream was to
3:56
Speaker 2: become a military officer and one day, you know, return
4:00
Speaker 2: to liberate East Turkistan. Unfortunately, because of you know, I
4:08
Speaker 2: had I I also joined the Oklahoma Army National Guard
4:11
Speaker 2: and I was doing R O T C. While I
4:14
Speaker 2: was I was at the university, and after about two years,
4:18
Speaker 2: two and a half years, during a field training exercise,
4:22
Speaker 2: I had an emergency at pendectomy and then one day
4:25
Speaker 2: did you know, a scan of my you know body,
4:28
Speaker 2: they discovered that I had you know, uh, policistic kidney disease.
4:34
Speaker 2: So that permanently, you know, disqualified me from military service
4:40
Speaker 2: and ended my you know, military career short. So then
4:44
Speaker 2: I ended up studying international studies and politics, and I
4:50
Speaker 2: started losing contact with all of my relatives, my grandparents,
4:55
Speaker 2: cousins and so forth in East Turkistan.
4:57
Speaker 1: And they were in East Turkistan sort of like like
5:00
Speaker 1: stop being able to reach them, that's what you're saying.
5:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, by the summer of twenty seventeen, I think June
5:07
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen was the last time I spoke to anyone
5:10
Speaker 2: in East Takistan, and that was my grandfather and he euphemistically,
5:17
Speaker 2: you know, in a coded words that you know, don't
5:19
Speaker 2: call us anymore. I don't know you you know, don't
5:23
Speaker 2: bother us. I'm too old to go to school. That
5:26
Speaker 2: school is there euphemism for the so called re education camps,
5:32
Speaker 2: which are in fact concentration camps. So I founded the
5:38
Speaker 2: Easter tra Kistan National Awakening Movement with like minded Vigers
5:42
Speaker 2: and Kazakhs, young Vigas and Kazakhs like myself. We grew
5:46
Speaker 2: up in the United States to advocate for East Takistan's
5:50
Speaker 2: political and human rights, to advocate for an end to
5:55
Speaker 2: the ongoing genocide and ultimately the restoration of East Takistans dependence.
6:01
Speaker 2: In April t nineteen, I was initially appointed as the
6:08
Speaker 2: US the Ambassador for the United States to the East
6:12
Speaker 2: for the Eastern exstin government exile, and then in November
6:17
Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen, at the eighth General Assembly of the
6:20
Speaker 2: East Extlin Government Taxil, I was initially elected as the
6:24
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, despite my you know, unwillingness to take up
6:29
Speaker 2: such a position. But because of my linguistic abilities, my
6:35
Speaker 2: youth and my activism, I became popular in the diaspora,
6:41
Speaker 2: so I was compelled to undertake that position and then
6:47
Speaker 2: I served as the Prime Minister of the Eastern Extain
6:50
Speaker 2: Government Taxil until November twenty twenty three, when I stepped
6:54
Speaker 2: down and a new government leadership was elected and I
6:59
Speaker 2: was subsequently apt in it as the Foreign Minister of
7:01
Speaker 2: the new government. In No November twenty twenty three.
7:07
Speaker 1: M Wow, that's that's a lot. So let me I
7:15
Speaker 1: got some notes. I had to take some notes. So
7:21
Speaker 1: you have a focus on the situation of the Wigers
7:29
Speaker 1: and also Kazakhs right in China or under Chinese occupation.
7:36
Speaker 1: This is a very I mean, that's like the scope
7:41
Speaker 1: of what you are dealing with. Is that correct?
7:45
Speaker 2: Yes? So East Turkistan is the name of our country. Historically,
7:51
Speaker 2: for the past fifteen hundred years, we've been known as
7:54
Speaker 2: either Turkistan and then since like the seventeen thirties, as
7:58
Speaker 2: East Turkistan because there was a split the Russians took
8:01
Speaker 2: over the western part and we therefore became East Turkistan
8:05
Speaker 2: around the seventeen thirties. In nineteen forty nine, the Soviet
8:11
Speaker 2: Union under Stalin helped MAO assassinate our key leadership and
8:19
Speaker 2: then helped the Chinese communists invade East Turkistan eleven days
8:25
Speaker 2: after MAO declared the People's Republic of China, and then
8:28
Speaker 2: in December twenty second, nineteen forty nine, our independent state,
8:32
Speaker 2: the East Traakistan Republic, was forcibly overthrown, initiating the ongoing
8:39
Speaker 2: you know, Chinese occupation of East Turkistan, which is in
8:43
Speaker 2: its seventy sixth year. We're about to enter its seventy
8:47
Speaker 2: sixth year.
8:50
Speaker 1: And Okay, so there's a lot of a lot of
8:54
Speaker 1: stuff I want to ask you about. So Okay, first
8:59
Speaker 1: of all, let's get let's get into like where we
9:02
Speaker 1: kind of like have let's say, similar interests. Okay, I
9:07
Speaker 1: mean I have an interest in this personally because I
9:10
Speaker 1: I am very critical of the Chinese government, But I
9:13
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of like I don't have an
9:16
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to people that are this close to
9:20
Speaker 1: you know, sort of what's going on. I mean, considering
9:22
Speaker 1: you had family that were affected by this. But I'm
9:27
Speaker 1: curious what the what is your take on how this
9:33
Speaker 1: situation overlaps with or is related to men's issues.
9:39
Speaker 2: Well, it's very relevant given the fact that China is
9:44
Speaker 2: actually and as I state, as I stated, it's because
9:48
Speaker 2: of our masculinity. This was the initial phase, was that
9:53
Speaker 2: they targeted our men?
9:56
Speaker 1: And how did they target the men? I'm curious it
9:58
Speaker 1: was it just like they just went after the men
10:00
Speaker 1: is kind of a thing, or was there.
10:01
Speaker 2: Initially they tried to criminalize you know, everything, you know,
10:07
Speaker 2: masculine about us. So for example, the fact that you know,
10:11
Speaker 2: facial hair, we have beards. Most Chinese people, unfortunately can't
10:16
Speaker 2: even grow beards. Chinese men, most of them can't you know,
10:19
Speaker 2: grow real beard. So they criminalized you know, beards for
10:25
Speaker 2: anyone under sixty five. In fact, one of the reasons
10:29
Speaker 2: that you are sent to a concentration camp was that
10:32
Speaker 2: if you had a beard, if you owned any weightlifting equipment.
10:38
Speaker 2: So if you have some dumbbells home gym, yeah, yeah,
10:42
Speaker 2: home gym. Or if you are a young person and
10:45
Speaker 2: you're under sixty five and you're attending a gym, oh,
10:48
Speaker 2: you're you're working out, not to look healthy or not
10:52
Speaker 2: to you know, impress the ladies, but you're working out
10:55
Speaker 2: specifically to rebel against the state. So this is when
11:00
Speaker 2: they started targeting, initially the men around twenty fourteen. By
11:05
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, around two hundred thousand or so men between
11:09
Speaker 2: the ages of fifteen and forty five, of those that
11:12
Speaker 2: are prone to be of you know, so called military age.
11:17
Speaker 2: They were initially targeted under you know, China claimed that
11:21
Speaker 2: it was fighting against terrorism and that it was facing
11:24
Speaker 2: you know, a so called terrorist threat, and the international
11:28
Speaker 2: community bought onto that lie because you know, they're like, oh,
11:32
Speaker 2: well these people.
11:33
Speaker 1: Are men, so yeah, it's easy to do that, right.
11:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is the phase that and then after
11:42
Speaker 2: China Wreck, realized that, you know, the international community is
11:45
Speaker 2: not condemning this. They're like, let's just target the entire population. Like,
11:52
Speaker 2: for example, in our country, historically, our men we used
11:56
Speaker 2: to you know, carry knives, We used to have n
12:00
Speaker 2: like every man had had his own little knife, right, yeah,
12:04
Speaker 2: knives have been completely banned across East Turkistan. In fact,
12:10
Speaker 2: in East Turkistan, every family is allowed one kitchen knife,
12:15
Speaker 2: one kitchen knife and only and that kitchen knife is
12:18
Speaker 2: chained to your kitchen wall, you know, kitchen kitchen onto
12:23
Speaker 2: the walls, and it has a QR code etched into it,
12:27
Speaker 2: and that QR code has your entire family's data. Like
12:32
Speaker 2: by scanning that QR code, they can find all of
12:34
Speaker 2: your you know, family, your relatives, everything. So if you
12:38
Speaker 2: were to you know, if that knife was to be
12:41
Speaker 2: found you know, somewhere else, or if it was used
12:45
Speaker 2: to you know, attack Chinese military personnel or so forth,
12:49
Speaker 2: your entire family would be targeted. So this is the thing,
12:54
Speaker 2: and right now, further on top of that, our men
12:57
Speaker 2: are being enslaved, especially our young men. They're being enslaved
13:03
Speaker 2: in forced labor factories, they're being forcibly relocated out of
13:06
Speaker 2: East Turkistan, while our women are being forced to marry
13:11
Speaker 2: Chinese men. So this is another uh, you know, brutality,
13:15
Speaker 2: and it is estimated. Organ experts on organ harvesting estimate
13:21
Speaker 2: that anywhere from twenty five thousand to fifty thousand we wars,
13:27
Speaker 2: mostly men, are being killed every year as part of
13:31
Speaker 2: organ harvesting, and majority of the executions that happen in
13:35
Speaker 2: East Turkistan, which are in the thousands, support portionately targets men. Officially,
13:41
Speaker 2: we have the officially, the Chinese government sentence over five
13:47
Speaker 2: hundred seventy eight thousand, five hundred we wars between anywhere
13:53
Speaker 2: from five years to life in prison for various crimes
13:58
Speaker 2: for various alleged crimes being what is a crime, and
14:03
Speaker 2: the overwhelming majority of those out of this sentence, over
14:07
Speaker 2: seventy percent is again men, because again the Chinese government
14:12
Speaker 2: fears men, you know, because they can resist, they can
14:16
Speaker 2: provide for their families, you know, they're historically men are
14:20
Speaker 2: you know, most likely to resist, most likely to you know,
14:25
Speaker 2: you know, push back.
14:27
Speaker 1: The critical of government and authority, and yes, yeah, that's
14:31
Speaker 1: why they get targeted. Yes, And it usually starts with
14:36
Speaker 1: sort of propaganda against men. And that's why I thought
14:40
Speaker 1: it was really interesting that you're sharing something that sounds
14:44
Speaker 1: a lot like what's happening in a lot of western
14:47
Speaker 1: countries as well. It's just it starts slow, you know.
14:50
Speaker 1: And of course it's how governments create essentially dependent you know, serfs,
15:00
Speaker 1: whatever whatever class it is. They attack the men first.
15:04
Speaker 1: So this is actually really really interesting and really relevant
15:08
Speaker 1: now that you explain it. So let's back up a
15:12
Speaker 1: little bit because I want to hear about these things
15:14
Speaker 1: point for points. So you said first they went after
15:16
Speaker 1: masculinity by essentially attacking the features of these men that
15:24
Speaker 1: differentiate them from the native sort of Chinese. Right, so
15:28
Speaker 1: they say these.
15:29
Speaker 2: We are native men, So I mean, I.
15:32
Speaker 1: Mean, yeah, but okay, okay, yeah, yeah, the colleges essentially
15:37
Speaker 1: differentiate from their team or their tribe, which is the
15:41
Speaker 1: the Chinese people they attack. They're trying to find ways
15:46
Speaker 1: to essentially criminalize men or or pathologize them, or make
15:51
Speaker 1: them appear you know, dangerous or scary or unappealing. Does
15:57
Speaker 1: does that the way that this was done. I'm curious obviously,
16:03
Speaker 1: if you have like two different factions, they're gonna have like,
16:07
Speaker 1: you know, their team sort of like they have their
16:11
Speaker 1: own distinct traits that they support because they share them.
16:15
Speaker 1: Like you know, the Chinese have their language, they have
16:18
Speaker 1: what they look like, their their sort of ethnicity, their genetics.
16:22
Speaker 1: But in order to that that, that's not quite enough
16:26
Speaker 1: to get people to like, you know, essentially want to
16:29
Speaker 1: dehumanize you. The existence of those differences are probably not enough.
16:33
Speaker 1: But what you can do is you can make the
16:36
Speaker 1: men dangerous so that the women will be like more
16:42
Speaker 1: in support of having something done about that. Do you
16:45
Speaker 1: think that there was anything that was specifically targeting not
16:49
Speaker 1: just like the Chinese, but like the women of your
16:52
Speaker 1: own group to like make them Yeah, go ahead.
16:58
Speaker 2: I mean not not really. I mean for our own group. No,
17:05
Speaker 2: not really, because I mean we understand one another, we understand,
17:10
Speaker 2: uh stand our culture, and we historically we're like you
17:15
Speaker 2: could say, it's more like a semi patriarch patriarchal society
17:21
Speaker 2: in which men are you know, more dominant in society,
17:25
Speaker 2: though we do have you know, equality and you know
17:28
Speaker 2: shared you know tasks and so forth. But men are
17:32
Speaker 2: the providers. They you know, manage, you know, providing for
17:36
Speaker 2: the family. They are the ones that you know, the
17:39
Speaker 2: entire family looks up to. In fact, in most parts
17:43
Speaker 2: of East Turkistan until you know, more recently, I guess
17:46
Speaker 2: this is also a trend, of part of the globalization trend.
17:51
Speaker 2: You know, men were the ones that would provide for
17:54
Speaker 2: the family. They would work, they would provide for the family,
17:57
Speaker 2: and women mostly you know, took care of the household
18:02
Speaker 2: and so forth. And so what China does in fact,
18:06
Speaker 2: and one of the reasons that you know they're sterilizing
18:09
Speaker 2: our women is that you know, in fact, the Chinese embassy.
18:13
Speaker 2: This is why momentarily briefly they were uh you could
18:17
Speaker 2: say censored on Twitter because they took to Twitter and saying, oh,
18:22
Speaker 2: we're freeing these weaker women from becoming baby making machines.
18:28
Speaker 2: This is what we're doing, you know, this forced sterilization
18:32
Speaker 2: is to liberate these weaker women from becoming you know,
18:35
Speaker 2: baby making machines. This is right. The level of propaganda
18:40
Speaker 2: that they've you know, used to justify their genocidal action.
18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's no, that's funny. So it looks like
18:47
Speaker 1: they do have to take it a step further because
18:49
Speaker 1: your let's say your your people are are less divided
18:55
Speaker 1: against themselves, so they have to they're doing this a
18:58
Speaker 1: different way. Like here we just prom mote abortion and
19:01
Speaker 1: then women say, okay, I'll just kill my babies. But
19:04
Speaker 1: it's it's still like but they that doesn't work in
19:07
Speaker 1: I would assume it's not as effective in in with
19:11
Speaker 1: you guys. So instead they try to like they just
19:14
Speaker 1: spin in a different way and they say, well, you
19:16
Speaker 1: know this is this is good for you for whatever reason. Right,
19:20
Speaker 1: they just try to try a different thing. It's it's
19:22
Speaker 1: got a little bit more force behind it. So yeah,
19:26
Speaker 1: that that makes a lot of sense. All right. So
19:30
Speaker 1: the China has locked up hundreds of thousands, maybe more
19:35
Speaker 1: of weiger and and Turkic men in camps, while I
19:40
Speaker 1: guess leaving the women and children, Like are the women
19:42
Speaker 1: and children? Also because you said it was mostly men
19:45
Speaker 1: that are put in these camps.
19:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, initially it was men that were initially targeted. Then
19:55
Speaker 2: they expanded it to our entire society. So even women
19:59
Speaker 2: are in the camps acording to China, Yeah, go ahead.
20:03
Speaker 2: According to China's own data, like their white paper, like
20:08
Speaker 2: the Pentagon back in May of twenty nineteen, its assessment
20:14
Speaker 2: stated that you know, at least three to four million
20:17
Speaker 2: US and other Turkic peoples have been taken into these
20:20
Speaker 2: concentration camps. Then China hit back and said, oh, no,
20:24
Speaker 2: these are concentration camps. These are vocational training facilities. We're
20:28
Speaker 2: providing them with job training, We're teaching them language, we're
20:32
Speaker 2: civilizing them, we're you know, de radicalizing them from their
20:36
Speaker 2: extremist thoughts. These are the things that they said, and
20:39
Speaker 2: they in their white paper they stated that between twenty
20:42
Speaker 2: fourteen and the end of twenty nineteen, they sent one
20:45
Speaker 2: point twenty nine million people per year to these concentration camps,
20:52
Speaker 2: so roughly seven point eight million people over the course
20:55
Speaker 2: of that period. And what we know is that proportionately
21:01
Speaker 2: men are often the higher ones to be targeted because
21:05
Speaker 2: majority of the men during that period they were they
21:08
Speaker 2: weren't you can see any men in the street like there.
21:11
Speaker 2: It was almost non existent. And even the propaganda that
21:15
Speaker 2: the Chinese government would roll out is that you know,
21:18
Speaker 2: they would send government minders, so they would send they've
21:22
Speaker 2: sent two point two million Chinese officials males to live
21:28
Speaker 2: in the whole in our homes while our men are
21:31
Speaker 2: in prison. They sent two point two million Chinese officials
21:34
Speaker 2: to live in our homes, to look after our women,
21:37
Speaker 2: to and even to sleep with them. This is well,
21:41
Speaker 2: this is not There's no you know, further humiliation than this.
21:46
Speaker 2: And of course, because our men are not there to
21:49
Speaker 2: protect their women, you know, you can expect what's happening.
21:53
Speaker 2: And so those who refuse, the women who refuse the
21:57
Speaker 2: advances of these Chinese you know, are essentially the assault
22:02
Speaker 2: and rape and all these other things of these Chinese officials.
22:07
Speaker 2: They are termed in term, deemed as extremists and radicals
22:10
Speaker 2: and sent to the concentration camps as well. But would
22:16
Speaker 2: I would estimate about seventy percent at least of the
22:21
Speaker 2: people that are interned into concentration camps in the prisons
22:24
Speaker 2: are men, in fact Chinese Lake. Chinese government testimonies show
22:32
Speaker 2: that they have forcibly transferred over half a million, at
22:37
Speaker 2: least half a million of our men out of our
22:41
Speaker 2: out of our country into secret prisons across China, where
22:45
Speaker 2: they are essentially being you know, left to die. The
22:48
Speaker 2: Chinese guards are saying, oh, they're being left to die.
22:50
Speaker 2: We don't even let them out to see daylight, not
22:53
Speaker 2: even once a month. And so this is the level
22:58
Speaker 2: of you know, tax and genocidal actions that the Chinese
23:03
Speaker 2: government is undertaking. Of course, then there's the children, not
23:08
Speaker 2: the Chinese government. Previously, like when I was there in
23:11
Speaker 2: East Arakistan, when I grew up, you know, I was
23:13
Speaker 2: there until seven during that period. Initially this was in
23:18
Speaker 2: two thousand, so we would learn, we had the opportunity
23:22
Speaker 2: to learn our language that we were language until middle school,
23:27
Speaker 2: and then it would be Chinese. Then in two thousand
23:30
Speaker 2: and three, the Chinese government rolled out a so called
23:33
Speaker 2: bilingual program. Except it's bilingual on paper. In reality, it's
23:38
Speaker 2: monolingual bilingual in the sense that after you graduate high school,
23:43
Speaker 2: if you want to, you know, learn Weiger when you're
23:45
Speaker 2: in college, you're free to do so. Until then, everything
23:47
Speaker 2: is strictly in Chinese. And so they did this for
23:51
Speaker 2: an entire decade. However, by like twenty fourteen, they realized
23:55
Speaker 2: that you know, even though you forced your children to
24:00
Speaker 2: attend school and learn Chinese, they're going to return home
24:04
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. They're going to go
24:06
Speaker 2: back to their parents, and their parents are so their
24:09
Speaker 2: parents are going to continue speaking to them, and they're
24:12
Speaker 2: going to continue to instill their culture, you know, and
24:16
Speaker 2: you know, try to keep their identity alive. So the
24:21
Speaker 2: Chinese governments felt that, oh no, we can't you know,
24:24
Speaker 2: fully assimilate these people at this rate. So then they
24:28
Speaker 2: began taking our children. According to the Chinese government's own
24:32
Speaker 2: data up until twenty nineteen, as of twenty nineteen, eight
24:36
Speaker 2: hundred and ninety thousand of our children were forcibly taken
24:40
Speaker 2: from their parents and put into state run boarding schools
24:44
Speaker 2: to be raised as loyal Chinese citizens. And of course,
24:47
Speaker 2: if you and we're talking, we're not talking about, you know,
24:50
Speaker 2: the teenagers. We're talking about kids as small as three
24:54
Speaker 2: years old, toddlers being taken. And there are numerous propaganda
24:58
Speaker 2: videos that the Chinese government itself puts out showing our
25:04
Speaker 2: little kids, our toddlers, dressed up in Chinese p l
25:07
Speaker 2: a miniature Chinese uniforms, being instructed by Chinese military officers
25:12
Speaker 2: to become the future soldiers of China, to fight against
25:15
Speaker 2: China's enemies, stuff like that. And they are, you know,
25:20
Speaker 2: they they obviously can't contact their relatives, their family members.
25:24
Speaker 2: They've lost every essence of their culture, and they're being
25:27
Speaker 2: instilled to become purely Chinese. This is the uh, you know,
25:31
Speaker 2: this is this is something that is unprecedented, you know
25:34
Speaker 2: at the international just at the at the u N
25:37
Speaker 2: the other day, the UN voted to condemn Russia's forced
25:44
Speaker 2: uh forced transfer, forced you know, kidnapping of tens of
25:48
Speaker 2: thousands of Ukrainian children. But that's tens of thousands, but
25:54
Speaker 2: when it comes to our case, it's over a million,
25:57
Speaker 2: and the international community is completely silent.
26:00
Speaker 1: No people, have you spoken at any of these or
26:05
Speaker 1: tried to I mean, I assume you've tried to raise
26:07
Speaker 1: the alarm on this stuff.
26:09
Speaker 2: Yes, we've repeatedly. I mean we've been talking about this
26:12
Speaker 2: issue for years. I mean it's not like a hidden secret.
26:16
Speaker 2: I mean it's publicly available. The Chinese government isn't hiding that.
26:21
Speaker 2: It's you know, forcibly doing all of these things. The
26:25
Speaker 2: Chinese government frames, oh, this is part of the gi radicalization,
26:29
Speaker 2: modernization development process. You know, we're we're developing these people,
26:35
Speaker 2: they're you know backwards, we're uplifting them all of these
26:39
Speaker 2: you know, all of these dehumanizing terms to legitimize and
26:45
Speaker 2: justify their atrocities.
26:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, so do you you say it went after the
26:50
Speaker 1: men first? I believe that one hundred percent was there
26:54
Speaker 1: like any pretense that allowed them to just go in
26:57
Speaker 1: there and take the men Like what, yeah, is there? Yeah,
27:00
Speaker 1: so go ahead.
27:01
Speaker 2: So, you know, we've been our people have been resisting
27:06
Speaker 2: against Chinese occupation since you know, they invaded us back
27:10
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty nine, and it is historically only targeted
27:15
Speaker 2: you know, Chinese military personnel has never targeted civilians because
27:20
Speaker 2: obviously that would undermine our cause and it's against our
27:26
Speaker 2: own religious you know teachings. You can't target unarmed people
27:31
Speaker 2: in any form of complicence, no matter what. So this
27:35
Speaker 2: was the case, however, because after nine to eleven, majority
27:39
Speaker 2: of our people are Muslim, China began to claim that
27:41
Speaker 2: it was fighting against terrorism that you know, because we're
27:45
Speaker 2: majority Muslim. They essentially, you know, took advantage of the
27:50
Speaker 2: global war on terror to demonize our own you know,
27:55
Speaker 2: national independence movement as part of you know, a fight
27:58
Speaker 2: against global terrorism. So still, the international community did not
28:03
Speaker 2: buy into their you know, propaganda, and so China needed
28:08
Speaker 2: a justification to lock up millions of people. You can't
28:11
Speaker 2: you know, you can execute you know, thousands of people
28:15
Speaker 2: a year. You can arrest thousands a year and the
28:18
Speaker 2: international community will be like, all right, whatever. But when
28:21
Speaker 2: you start mass in turning millions of people, that's going
28:24
Speaker 2: to raise alarms. You have to have some form of notice.
28:28
Speaker 2: So what Chinese intelligence began is and this is prior,
28:32
Speaker 2: this is right after Chi Jin unveiled the Belton Road initiative.
28:37
Speaker 2: And if you know anything about the Belton Road initiative,
28:40
Speaker 2: it's a multi trillion dollar project, infrastructure project essentially expanding
28:46
Speaker 2: you know, for Chinese expansion economically, politically, and further down
28:51
Speaker 2: the road if need be.
28:52
Speaker 1: Military militarily.
28:54
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and guess where that runs through. It runs
28:58
Speaker 2: through East Turkestan. We are the cornerstone of that. Without
29:01
Speaker 2: East Turkistan, China has no connection to Central Asia, to
29:06
Speaker 2: the Middle East, to South Asia, to Europe. So for US,
29:10
Speaker 2: for without for China, East Turkistan is crucially vital. So
29:17
Speaker 2: chi Jinping announced that in twenty thirteen, and then to legitimize,
29:22
Speaker 2: you know, the planned genocide that they're undertaking, the Chinese
29:26
Speaker 2: intelligence created a bunch of false flag bombings in which,
29:31
Speaker 2: you know, there was a couple of bombings at like
29:35
Speaker 2: a train station, the vegetable market against the Chinese and
29:39
Speaker 2: Chinese located areas, and then they blamed it on wigers again,
29:44
Speaker 2: they claimed that, oh, these were weaker supporters who were
29:48
Speaker 2: undertaking these you know, bombings, even though even Western experts,
29:54
Speaker 2: people who focused on our cars, are like, why are
29:56
Speaker 2: vigers suddenly you know, going from targeting Chinese military personnel
30:03
Speaker 2: to you know, targeting you know, civilians. This doesn't make
30:07
Speaker 2: any sense, knowing that it would undermine their very cause
30:11
Speaker 2: of course it's not something that weakers themselves did it.
30:14
Speaker 2: It's all coordinated by Chinese intelligence and then using that
30:19
Speaker 2: as a basis that, oh, we're facing a terrorism threat
30:22
Speaker 2: and you know, more and more weaker men are becoming
30:26
Speaker 2: uh are prone to become radicalized because of the rising colonization,
30:31
Speaker 2: because of the UH the discrimination discrimination, systematic discrimination. So
30:39
Speaker 2: they will attack us if we don't de radicalize them,
30:42
Speaker 2: if we don't you know, re educate them and you know,
30:46
Speaker 2: take out their extremest thoughts. So this is the basis
30:49
Speaker 2: that China used, and that's why initially, as I stated,
30:54
Speaker 2: when they targeted only the men, because they there was
30:57
Speaker 2: a couple of these false flag bombings, the international community,
31:01
Speaker 2: you know, bought into that lie or just you know,
31:04
Speaker 2: turn the blind eye and was like, all right, let's
31:06
Speaker 2: let's see what's going to come out of this. But
31:09
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, our entire population began to become a wholesale
31:14
Speaker 2: targeted and so the international community slowly began to speak out.
31:20
Speaker 2: But other than low level you know, condemnations and you know,
31:26
Speaker 2: some lip service that haven't really done anything.
31:28
Speaker 1: Finger wagging, right, do you think, just as of a
31:33
Speaker 1: side note, do you think that your religion has anything
31:38
Speaker 1: to do with why China is doing this? It's not
31:40
Speaker 1: just a purely let's say, pragmatic, if not a completely
31:44
Speaker 1: heartless thing, because you're just an obstacle. I mean, do
31:47
Speaker 1: you think that there is something about your religion that
31:52
Speaker 1: because I think China is largely secular, but I'm not certain.
31:56
Speaker 2: So, I mean it's an atheist state. However, No, it's
32:02
Speaker 2: our issue is not a religious issue. It's not motivated
32:06
Speaker 2: by religion in any way like or China is targeting us.
32:11
Speaker 2: Targeting us is not motivated because they're right, Yeah, because
32:15
Speaker 2: if that was the case, there are fifteen million ethnically
32:18
Speaker 2: Chinese Muslims. Fifteen million, Yeah, China yeah. Yeah, they're ethnically Chinese,
32:26
Speaker 2: but they practice you know, Islam, they're Muslims. They they
32:31
Speaker 2: live in you know, actual China, So China has no
32:34
Speaker 2: you know, concerns about that. This is not if it
32:37
Speaker 2: was about religion, you'd be seeing you know, the Chinese
32:40
Speaker 2: Muslims being locked up in concentration camps and you know,
32:44
Speaker 2: facing side. But because the issue is about East Turkistan,
32:49
Speaker 2: it's about controlling our country, our resources, and you know,
32:56
Speaker 2: they need to remove the people there and replace it
32:58
Speaker 2: with the Chinese. And this, this is this is what
33:00
Speaker 2: the the root of the issue it is is because
33:04
Speaker 2: of and that's why you know they use all types
33:09
Speaker 2: of excuses, you know, to target target us, right.
33:14
Speaker 1: So this is yeah, so this is uh sounds like
33:18
Speaker 1: like legitimately a genocide happening on a few different levels. One,
33:22
Speaker 1: they're you know, just taking the men away, which is
33:25
Speaker 1: essentially making it impossible for you guys to reproduce like
33:30
Speaker 1: within your within your group. They are replacing the those
33:35
Speaker 1: men with their men by sending in these men to
33:38
Speaker 1: like you know, live with these Weiger women. And and
33:43
Speaker 1: they're also taking the children and re educating them and
33:46
Speaker 1: making them into you know essentially serves to the Chinese state.
33:53
Speaker 1: Is that is that fair? All of that that I got?
33:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the so far the US governments as
34:00
Speaker 2: well as the many governments and parliaments in the EU,
34:05
Speaker 2: and even the UN described it. The US recognized it
34:09
Speaker 2: as genocide, many EU parliaments recognized as genocide. The UN,
34:15
Speaker 2: because of China's you know, enormous cloud, you know, it
34:19
Speaker 2: should have recognized it as genocide. But because again China's
34:24
Speaker 2: enormous cloud and influence at the UN, so they stated, oh,
34:27
Speaker 2: it's crimes against humanity. But crimes against humanity is still
34:31
Speaker 2: crimes against humanity. It's not something to be taken lightly.
34:35
Speaker 2: Even with that that, you don't see any action being
34:39
Speaker 2: taken to stop it. That's the sad reality. And so
34:42
Speaker 2: this genocide has been ongoing as the so called People's
34:46
Speaker 2: War since May of twenty fourteen. We are about to
34:50
Speaker 2: enter into its twelfth year.
34:53
Speaker 1: MH. So this is like okay, so, so I guess
35:01
Speaker 1: you have warned that China is deliberately creating millions of
35:05
Speaker 1: surplus han men and then exporting them to Central Asia, Russia,
35:10
Speaker 1: and Africa, et cetera, to marry local women and create
35:14
Speaker 1: pro China elites. Yes, is this basically state sponsored demographic
35:20
Speaker 1: conquests and what does it mean for the men in
35:23
Speaker 1: those countries?
35:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, it's essentially neo colonialism at its finest.
35:30
Speaker 2: So China has a very large male population. They don't
35:34
Speaker 2: have as many females because during the cultural Revolution of
35:38
Speaker 2: mals Era, they you know, the one child.
35:41
Speaker 1: Rules, so they were trying to control their population and
35:43
Speaker 1: it was only yeah, there were too.
35:46
Speaker 2: Many girls, female you know, babies. So so this means
35:52
Speaker 2: there's a large male population. And the Beltman Road Initiative,
35:57
Speaker 2: what it is is a trillion dollar project. They're investing.
36:01
Speaker 2: They're building roads, hospitals, railways, ports, you know, different infrastructure
36:10
Speaker 2: projects across the world, not just in East Takistan, not
36:13
Speaker 2: just in Central Asia, but even in parts of Africa.
36:16
Speaker 2: In fact, one of the African scholars he warned about
36:20
Speaker 2: this very explicitly. He said, right now, like the Chinese,
36:24
Speaker 2: they're coming and doing all these but look at who's
36:26
Speaker 2: they're bringing. They're bringing tens of thousands of Chinese males
36:30
Speaker 2: into our country. It's not the Africans men that are
36:34
Speaker 2: getting the jobs. We could build those roads, we could
36:37
Speaker 2: build those you know, hospitals. We could serve as the
36:41
Speaker 2: labor even if not as you know, if we're not
36:43
Speaker 2: technically capable of it, we could you know, serve as
36:47
Speaker 2: manual labor. But of course that doesn't fit China's agenda
36:51
Speaker 2: because China needs to find a solution and find wives
36:54
Speaker 2: for these males, but they also need to ensure that,
36:57
Speaker 2: you know, they engage in neoclosium. So that he said
37:02
Speaker 2: what the African scholars warning was that right now, you
37:05
Speaker 2: might think I'm crazy. Right now, there's about I think
37:07
Speaker 2: he was. It was in uh Kenya or Nigeria. He said,
37:12
Speaker 2: right now, there's about you know, two hundred thousand Chinese
37:16
Speaker 2: here in Africa, in this part of Africa. You might
37:20
Speaker 2: think that's not a whole lot comparable to our size.
37:23
Speaker 2: You might think that's not a whole lot. But many
37:26
Speaker 2: of them are marrying African women because let's face it,
37:30
Speaker 2: who are were women going to marry. They're not going
37:32
Speaker 2: to marry a guy that doesn't have a job, that
37:34
Speaker 2: can't provide for them. So who has the job? Who
37:38
Speaker 2: has the money? The Chinese men now they're having babies,
37:42
Speaker 2: Now these babies China is in those countries, they're essentially
37:47
Speaker 2: creating a little enclaves in those countries where these you know,
37:51
Speaker 2: mixed you know, half or these married you know African
37:55
Speaker 2: slash Chinese couples married reside in these compounds. They have
37:59
Speaker 2: their own own schools, their own everything is in Chinese.
38:02
Speaker 2: And then they send them after they get you know,
38:05
Speaker 2: a little older, they send them to study in China.
38:08
Speaker 2: And he's saying, right now, you might think this is crazy,
38:11
Speaker 2: but come to me in thirty forty years and you'll
38:13
Speaker 2: be like, you're right. In thirty forty years, our ministers
38:16
Speaker 2: will be half Chinese, half African. Our presidents, our prime
38:21
Speaker 2: ministers will be half Chinese half African, and they will
38:24
Speaker 2: have you know, they will effectively they won't be loyal
38:27
Speaker 2: to Africa, they won't be loyal to our countries. They'll
38:30
Speaker 2: be loyal to Beijing, and our countries will effectively answer
38:34
Speaker 2: to Beijing. And this is the this is the the
38:38
Speaker 2: the strategic you know, calamity that Africa is going to
38:42
Speaker 2: face in the next coming decades. And this is happening
38:46
Speaker 2: all across again, even in Central Asia, because the Chinese
38:51
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, we're gonna help you build railways, We're
38:53
Speaker 2: gonna help you build roads. We're gonna help you build
38:56
Speaker 2: all these massive infrastructure projects, but we're gonna do with
39:00
Speaker 2: our own labor. So they're bringing, you know, hundreds of
39:03
Speaker 2: thousands of Chinese men.
39:07
Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of fighting age working Chinese men go
39:13
Speaker 1: into distant like other countries, they take their jobs from
39:18
Speaker 1: from the native population, and they marry into and interbreed
39:23
Speaker 1: with that population as well. And the people bring up
39:28
Speaker 1: if they say that they have a problem with it,
39:31
Speaker 1: you know, like they don't they don't like this or
39:33
Speaker 1: or or it's doing harm. Then I guess they could
39:38
Speaker 1: call bigots for it. I don't know, so.
39:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, in one portion, you know, in some countries, yeah,
39:44
Speaker 2: they're they'll be called bigots. In countries like Central Asia,
39:47
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, you're undermining our you know, friendly relationship
39:52
Speaker 2: with China. Of course you have corrupt officials who are
39:55
Speaker 2: being paid, you know, since sell out their own nations.
39:59
Speaker 2: Few sure, because right now all they look at is that,
40:03
Speaker 2: you know a lot of cash that the Chinese hand them.
40:05
Speaker 2: They don't think about thirty forty years like what were
40:08
Speaker 2: my you know, children face or what will my grandchildren face?
40:12
Speaker 2: They don't think about that.
40:14
Speaker 1: Mm. Yeah, it sounds really familiar stuff that's happening in
40:20
Speaker 1: like this part of the world as well, so countries.
40:24
Speaker 1: I think you've said that countries like Saudi Arabia and
40:27
Speaker 1: UAE and even India have been detaining Wiger men for
40:31
Speaker 1: years at China's request, sometimes just for wearing an anti
40:35
Speaker 1: genocide shirt. How common is it for Wiger men to
40:38
Speaker 1: be disappeared abroad and what does that say about global
40:41
Speaker 1: men's rights when geopolitics are involved.
40:45
Speaker 2: In fact, if you look at the statistics of all
40:50
Speaker 2: the virus abroad that have been detained and deported, you'll
40:56
Speaker 2: find that ninety nine percent of them are men. And
40:58
Speaker 2: the reason, you know, because women and children they get
41:02
Speaker 2: more solidarity. Men the Chinese government can immediately label as criminals, terrorists,
41:07
Speaker 2: extremists and no solidarity. So this is this is the
41:11
Speaker 2: sad reality is that you know, and are easy to target,
41:18
Speaker 2: easy to justify, as you know, to demonize in comparison
41:22
Speaker 2: to women and children. So that's why many of the
41:25
Speaker 2: people that are being detained and deported are you know,
41:29
Speaker 2: like ninety nine percent in our case, in the old case,
41:33
Speaker 2: are are men.
41:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, of course. And the people, most of
41:40
Speaker 1: the people in the labor camps are men as well.
41:44
Speaker 2: I mean they're they're they're.
41:47
Speaker 1: And oh, I want to get back to the organ
41:49
Speaker 1: harvest thing. So, like this is one of those things
41:51
Speaker 1: that real quick, I'm sorry, I know you're going to
41:53
Speaker 1: say something. I'll let you. I'll let you go ahead
41:55
Speaker 1: and do that. This is one of those things that
41:57
Speaker 1: a lot of people thought was a bit too far fetched,
42:02
Speaker 1: but I didn't think it was. So I'm really glad
42:04
Speaker 1: that you brought this up. And it's interesting that you
42:06
Speaker 1: said that the organ harvesting is also mostly happening to men.
42:12
Speaker 1: Is that is that true?
42:13
Speaker 2: Yes? So the reason for this is, like if you
42:17
Speaker 2: look at China's own organ harvesting data, the government's own
42:21
Speaker 2: data on that prior to twenty fourteen. In twenty thirteen,
42:25
Speaker 2: they claimed that there is about six thousand voluntary organ transplants.
42:29
Speaker 2: Of course they call it voluntary, but most of the
42:32
Speaker 2: organ transplants are actually organ harvesting taken from political prisoners
42:37
Speaker 2: that are often executed. In our case, it's majority men.
42:41
Speaker 2: But after twenty fourteen it's skyrocketed to over fifty thousand
42:46
Speaker 2: per year to where now it's about one hundred thousand organs.
42:50
Speaker 2: It's believed that there's about one hundred thousand organ transplants
42:53
Speaker 2: happening every year. In fact, many wealthy Muslims from the
42:58
Speaker 2: Middle East and other parts of them Muslim world travel
43:01
Speaker 2: to China and to where they get halal organs, meaning
43:06
Speaker 2: that you know the organs of those individuals, you know,
43:12
Speaker 2: you know it belonged to an individual who was Muslim,
43:14
Speaker 2: who didn't drink alcohol, who didn't you know, eat pork,
43:18
Speaker 2: et cetera. And so they are essentially selling us as
43:23
Speaker 2: hello organs. And in fact, it's so easy to get
43:27
Speaker 2: organ transplants in China. You go to China if you
43:31
Speaker 2: have a lot of money, that is, if you have
43:32
Speaker 2: a lot of money, you go to China, within seventy
43:35
Speaker 2: two hours, they can get you an organ transplant. And
43:38
Speaker 2: where is that coming from East Pakistan? Because many of
43:41
Speaker 2: these organ harvesting facilities are located in East tra Kistan.
43:49
Speaker 2: Many of our airports in East ta Kistan have special
43:52
Speaker 2: lanes at the airport that's safe for organ transplants only.
43:58
Speaker 2: And based on the testimonies and based on testimonies of
44:05
Speaker 2: Chinese security guards and police that were in the camps
44:08
Speaker 2: as well as victims in those camps, survivors, as well
44:13
Speaker 2: as China's own judicial and other data. Majority of the
44:20
Speaker 2: quote voluntary organ transplant. This is the youth from the
44:25
Speaker 2: nice way that the Chinese government tries to whitewash his
44:28
Speaker 2: crime is claiming that it's voluntary. In fact that when
44:31
Speaker 2: it's not, are males they're getting it from males. They
44:36
Speaker 2: collected the DNA samples, the voiceprints, and retina scans of
44:40
Speaker 2: thirty six million of our people between sixteen and twenty
44:45
Speaker 2: eighteen or twenty seventeen.
44:48
Speaker 1: Wow, it's absolutely barbaric, but it makes sense because men
44:52
Speaker 1: are the disposable sex. And like you said, because of
44:58
Speaker 1: Muslim practices, you're or organs are ripe for uh for use.
45:03
Speaker 1: And I assume that China makes a lot of money
45:07
Speaker 1: doing that and they don't concern themselves with the ethics
45:11
Speaker 1: of such a practice. So I guess thank you again
45:17
Speaker 1: for coming on, uh we because we started late, I'm gonna,
45:22
Speaker 1: like you know, I went over time. I normally would
45:24
Speaker 1: just go for an hour. We're just gonna go for
45:26
Speaker 1: an hour for another few more minutes here. Well, first
45:31
Speaker 1: of all, I wanted to point out that a lot
45:34
Speaker 1: of people are learning about these weaker camps. I don't know,
45:36
Speaker 1: if you like, I don't mean in the on the
45:39
Speaker 1: international stage with large, large organizations like governments and the UN,
45:44
Speaker 1: but I mean, like normal citizens are learning more and
45:48
Speaker 1: more about this. And it's actually, interestingly enough thanks to Disney.
45:53
Speaker 2: Did you know that, Yeah, they they have. They filmed
45:57
Speaker 2: you know, parts of Mulan in.
46:00
Speaker 1: And that was people said that they weren't sure, but
46:03
Speaker 1: that was a camp right in the background of that.
46:06
Speaker 2: And the funny thing is, like the people being demonized
46:10
Speaker 2: in Mulan if you if you remember, like if you
46:12
Speaker 2: watched it.
46:15
Speaker 1: The original one. I saw the original one.
46:17
Speaker 2: But so Bodi Khan, I mean, those the Huns, those
46:22
Speaker 2: are actually the Wikirs, those are our ancestors. So the reason,
46:26
Speaker 2: like it explained in the Disney remake, he explains why
46:31
Speaker 2: you know they're attacking you know, China. He's like, because
46:34
Speaker 2: they killed my father, they took our land. This is
46:38
Speaker 2: a symbolic thing that the Chinese are stating. But even
46:43
Speaker 2: in that, they're stating, oh, it's okay to oppress and
46:45
Speaker 2: you know, demonize these people that we invaded and occupy
46:49
Speaker 2: as a bunch of barbarians. So not only did they
46:53
Speaker 2: film the movie in parts of the movie in East
46:56
Speaker 2: Turkistan near the concentration camps. But they also cast our
47:02
Speaker 2: ancestors as you know, evil and as being you know
47:07
Speaker 2: that you know, it's justified to of course, you know, rudely,
47:10
Speaker 2: uh suppress these people because there are a bunch of barbarians.
47:14
Speaker 2: This is the the narrative that the Chinese government has
47:18
Speaker 2: you know, been propagating into Chinese mindset, and that's why
47:22
Speaker 2: the average Chinese people, like a lot of uh, you know,
47:26
Speaker 2: Western journalists that tried to try to go to Easter
47:29
Speaker 2: Kustan when they ask Chinese people, the average Chinese people,
47:32
Speaker 2: what do you think? You know, I heard that, you know,
47:35
Speaker 2: they're locking up millions of weekers in these camps. What
47:38
Speaker 2: do you think about that? And they're like, oh, that's
47:40
Speaker 2: that's great. You know, they're they're backward barbarians. You know,
47:44
Speaker 2: we're civilizing them. The Chinese government is doing the right thing.
47:48
Speaker 2: You know, they think, you know, they want to kick
47:50
Speaker 2: us out of this place, but this is our land now.
47:53
Speaker 2: This is the the answer that these Chinese people are giving.
47:58
Speaker 2: And the the journalist was like, are you know, do
48:02
Speaker 2: you not feel any you know, sympathy for these people?
48:06
Speaker 2: Like they're just being you know, torture person you killed
48:11
Speaker 2: en mass and they're like, no, they deserve it. This
48:14
Speaker 2: is the unfortunate reality because again the Chinese government has
48:21
Speaker 2: long portrayed US as barbarians. Prior to you know, September eleventh,
48:28
Speaker 2: we were backward barbarians, counter revolutionaries, ath Anic splitists, and
48:34
Speaker 2: then after nine to eleven, it was like, oh, these
48:36
Speaker 2: are all terrorists.
48:38
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, that's well. I think that that
48:45
Speaker 1: that is starting to change. I don't know if I'm
48:48
Speaker 1: being like naive or overly optimistic, but let me ask
48:52
Speaker 1: what is next for you guys, Like what are your
48:56
Speaker 1: goals or what are you working on right now to
48:58
Speaker 1: get closer to your goal of decolonizing East Turkistan.
49:04
Speaker 2: So one of the first things that we've been calling
49:06
Speaker 2: for is to you know, recognize East Turkistan or re
49:11
Speaker 2: recognize East Turkistan as an occupied country. So in the
49:14
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine US Captive Nations Law, which you know,
49:21
Speaker 2: reaffirms that US solidarity and support for the recovery of
49:26
Speaker 2: independence and liberty of captive nations and lists US as
49:29
Speaker 2: Turkistan alongside Tibet. However, after the US China you know
49:38
Speaker 2: US China under Nixon, you know, they patched things up
49:42
Speaker 2: or the US opened up to China. Under the Knickson administration,
49:46
Speaker 2: one of the key things that China requested or demanded
49:49
Speaker 2: was you're no longer ever going to mention East Traakistan.
49:52
Speaker 2: You're no longer going to talk about this, and so
49:54
Speaker 2: after that it was complete silence. So we're trying to
49:57
Speaker 2: get people, you know, as part of the coloniization is
50:00
Speaker 2: to start calling our country by its true name, East Takistan.
50:05
Speaker 2: We're not Chinese minorities, we're not Chinese Muslims, we're not
50:09
Speaker 2: we don't have any any ethnic, religious, cultural, or even
50:14
Speaker 2: racial connection to the Chinese. We're Indo European, whereas the
50:18
Speaker 2: Chinese are you know, East Asia Asians. You know, we're too,
50:24
Speaker 2: even racially, we're two complete different races, you could say.
50:29
Speaker 2: So like the Chinese call us our country by the
50:33
Speaker 2: term Shinjang, which literally translates new as the new territory,
50:38
Speaker 2: So in itself shows you that this is a Chinese
50:41
Speaker 2: occupied territory. So we're calling for recognition of that. So
50:46
Speaker 2: recognition of our right to self determination like every other nation,
50:50
Speaker 2: you know, and our right to decolonization. We're you know,
50:55
Speaker 2: asking for the public, the governments, the people to lobby
51:00
Speaker 2: their governments, to press their governments to you know, offer
51:03
Speaker 2: us the same level of support that you know that
51:05
Speaker 2: they've given to other oppressed peoples, and ultimately to recognize that,
51:10
Speaker 2: you know, genocide is not going to stop itself. We
51:14
Speaker 2: have to address the root. Why is this genocide happening.
51:17
Speaker 2: It's because China is occupying and colonizing our country. And
51:22
Speaker 2: the only solution to that is by restoring our independence,
51:25
Speaker 2: by you know, restoring our national self determination and sovereignty.
51:30
Speaker 2: And so the first step is again recognition of these
51:33
Speaker 2: Turkistan's status, true status support, recognition of our right to
51:39
Speaker 2: self determination, and then you know, support for our independence
51:44
Speaker 2: through international institutions and international laws, and you know, providing
51:51
Speaker 2: us with you know, political, financial, moral, diplomatic support that
51:55
Speaker 2: you know that they've given to other other nations.
51:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and then it would we'll obviously restore like
52:03
Speaker 1: order back to your like your people, like putting you know,
52:07
Speaker 1: the family back together, the man back in the home,
52:10
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, which is yeah, like how it
52:14
Speaker 1: how it should be. So, I mean, I guess I
52:18
Speaker 1: got one last question, what did you learn about what
52:24
Speaker 1: happened to your family members? Because this all started when
52:27
Speaker 1: they started disappearing, So what did you learn about what
52:31
Speaker 1: happened to them?
52:33
Speaker 2: So majority of the male male of my male relatives,
52:37
Speaker 2: they were sent to the concentration camps. Many were actually
52:41
Speaker 2: sentenced to you know, anywhere from five years to life
52:46
Speaker 2: in prison. I have a cousin who was sentenced twenty
52:49
Speaker 2: five years in prison and he was only twenty one
52:52
Speaker 2: at the time on so called separatism allegations or accusations.
53:01
Speaker 2: I had relatives that died in the camps. We heard
53:05
Speaker 2: that two of them died in the concentration camps and
53:08
Speaker 2: another two were killed in the prison. And this is
53:11
Speaker 2: the ones that we could get some information out of
53:14
Speaker 2: information from based on other relatives who were who lived
53:19
Speaker 2: across the border in Central Asia and who you know
53:23
Speaker 2: we're engaging in, you know, who have business partners in
53:26
Speaker 2: those countries that you know, went back and forth between
53:29
Speaker 2: East Trekstan, and they were able to you know, get
53:31
Speaker 2: get these snippets of information out. But it was like
53:36
Speaker 2: years after that we heard that, you know, they died
53:40
Speaker 2: several years ago, and now we're hearing it in like
53:43
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, twenty twenty four, even though they've been
53:47
Speaker 2: you know.
53:48
Speaker 1: The news of their passing is like coming way later
53:52
Speaker 1: and you you, well, it's like can you even like,
53:58
Speaker 1: how do you grieve? I guess so, yeah, that's that's awful.
54:05
Speaker 2: You live in the twenty first century. You shouldn't be
54:07
Speaker 2: able to contact anyone easily. But the thing is in
54:10
Speaker 2: East Turkistan, if you one of the reasons that they
54:15
Speaker 2: take you into the camps to be quote re educated,
54:18
Speaker 2: is if you have contact with anyone overseas. So if
54:23
Speaker 2: you have relatives overseas and you try to contact them
54:26
Speaker 2: or you have contacted them, you're going into the camp
54:29
Speaker 2: because you're not quote loyal according to the Chinese state.
54:34
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, all right, well then what what do you
54:39
Speaker 1: what is there anything that you wanted to tell people
54:42
Speaker 1: that are watching that I did not ask you about?
54:45
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think we pretty much covered the
54:48
Speaker 2: gist of it. But of course this is not just
54:52
Speaker 2: what's happening to East Turkistan. In fact, what China is
54:55
Speaker 2: doing and what you know certain you know, powers that be, malign,
55:01
Speaker 2: powers that be, what they want to do is they
55:03
Speaker 2: are using East Turkistan as a you know a test
55:07
Speaker 2: lab to test all of these different types of surveillance AI,
55:15
Speaker 2: facial recognition surveillance tools and so forth, and other policies
55:21
Speaker 2: that they want to you know, implement in other parts
55:24
Speaker 2: of the world, especially authoritarian regimes. And so if we
55:29
Speaker 2: if the people of the world don't wake up, if
55:31
Speaker 2: they don't oppose this, you know, it might not be immediate,
55:35
Speaker 2: but you know, they might come where they will be
55:38
Speaker 2: living or witnessing a similar situation and their happening to
55:45
Speaker 2: them or if not to them, then maybe to their children.
55:48
Speaker 2: So this is why it's important for the international community
55:53
Speaker 2: for people all across the world to oppose this, not
55:57
Speaker 2: just because of what's happening to the URUS, but oppose
56:01
Speaker 2: it so that they don't face what's happening to us,
56:04
Speaker 2: so they don't become the next two wards.
56:07
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, no, that that's that's a good point. I
56:11
Speaker 1: think that I hope that you can get on much
56:16
Speaker 1: larger platforms than ours so that more people will see this,
56:20
Speaker 1: because I think this story is really important. But I
56:23
Speaker 1: really am appreciative that you did come on our show
56:26
Speaker 1: to talk about this with us, and yeah, I mean
56:30
Speaker 1: thanks so much for sharing this information. It's like I said,
56:36
Speaker 1: it's it's uh, it's really terrible. What's what's happened? And
56:41
Speaker 1: I hope that we can get some you know, some resolutions.
56:46
Speaker 1: Thank you, yeah, thank you, and thank you guys for
56:50
Speaker 1: watching the show. So I put links to your socials
56:55
Speaker 1: in the description of this video so people can reach
56:58
Speaker 1: you and maybe I can try to like get get
57:04
Speaker 1: somebody like to host you that you know, maybe able
57:08
Speaker 1: to reach more people. I think that this is like
57:10
Speaker 1: really important stuff. And have you have you been on
57:12
Speaker 1: any other like on the news or anything like that.
57:15
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I've done a lot of interviews, especially before
57:21
Speaker 2: the Ukraine conflict broke out. Before the war in Ukraine
57:26
Speaker 2: broke out, we were actually getting some attention. That's when
57:30
Speaker 2: we got our genocide recognition. You know, governments were condemning
57:35
Speaker 2: what was happening. And then the war in Ukraine erupted,
57:39
Speaker 2: and of course governments are afraid to you know, they're
57:43
Speaker 2: afraid to upset China because they know China's supplying, you know,
57:46
Speaker 2: supporting Russia, and so they think that if they appease China,
57:50
Speaker 2: that you know, and you know, appeace China and refrain
57:54
Speaker 2: from you know, criticizing China, that China will listen to
57:57
Speaker 2: their pleas to you know, stop supporting Russia. Can you
58:00
Speaker 2: pressure Putin to stop? They're not now China. Putin went
58:05
Speaker 2: to you know, the the winter Beijing Winter Olympics, and
58:10
Speaker 2: it was there where the the Winter Olympics in China,
58:14
Speaker 2: and it was there that you know, she pretty much
58:18
Speaker 2: gave the green lights, saying, I got your back, go
58:21
Speaker 2: do this because she needed something. Chi Jinping needed something
58:25
Speaker 2: to you know, distract the international community from the pressure
58:29
Speaker 2: that it was receiving over the or from the mounting
58:32
Speaker 2: pressure that it was receiving over the genocide because we
58:35
Speaker 2: had the governments recognizing it as genocide. You know, dozens
58:40
Speaker 2: of countries at the u N you know, SINT signed
58:44
Speaker 2: joint statements condemning it. There was you know a lot
58:47
Speaker 2: of media attention you know, at the time, and so
58:51
Speaker 2: to distract from that, this is this is this is
58:54
Speaker 2: you know, this is what's been going on, and so
58:57
Speaker 2: all these other conflicts erupted in so China has been
59:00
Speaker 2: riding the wave and essentially you know, you know, be
59:06
Speaker 2: getting away with all of these crimes with no accountability.
59:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well I just want to say good luck, Sully.
59:22
Speaker 1: I'm really and appreciate you coming on the show, and
59:26
Speaker 1: I hope we'll maybe we'll have you on again soon
59:29
Speaker 1: and like to talk about some other things, you know,
59:32
Speaker 1: like any developments that happen and whatnot. And yeah, I
59:35
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on.
59:37
Speaker 2: Thank you again for the opportunity, right.
59:39
Speaker 1: No, thank you so much, all right, and thank you
59:41
Speaker 1: guys watching at home for joining us. This has been
59:45
Speaker 1: the Fireside Jet. If you guys like this video, please
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1:00:00
Speaker 1: on today's episode of The Fireside Chat. And we'll talk
1:00:02
Speaker 1: to you guys in the next one.