Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Erika Dupont, SVP Total Rewards at Lumen Technologies
Transcript
- Courtney Cardin (00:42) Welcome Erica, I am so excited to have you, ⁓ SVP of PeopleOps and total rewards at Lumen Technologies. I'd love if you could introduce yourself to our audience. ⁓ Erika (00:51) Yeah, thank you so much for having me. So as you just mentioned, I lead total rewards and people operations here at Lumen, which is a very large team. So I've got well-being, benefits, compensation, people analytics, HR tech. and a bunch of really awesome functions with really amazing team members. ⁓ We are going through a massive transformation right now, both from a strategy standpoint and culturally. So it's a really exciting time to be here. On the personal side, I've been married for 10 years. My husband and I, live in Louisiana, which is where we're both from. And all of our families are here. We have two kids, seven and nine, and they are very busy in afterschool activities and all the chaos that comes with that age group. So we are very busy, but life is very full and fun right now. Courtney Cardin (01:41) Amazing. Well, thank you so much for making the time. I have a little one of my own nine months, so I understand the busy. Erika (01:48) the best. I miss that time. It's hard, but it's so wonderful. Courtney Cardin (01:53) It's a wild time. I'm sure I'll be calling you soon and asking. So I'd love to start off and just dive in a little bit around your money story. As you know, we are a financial wellness company and we just love to hear about the money stories with the people that we're talking to. So if you would indulge me, what is your earliest memory of money? Erika (01:56) Yeah, I love it. Okay. I So really when I was young, I didn't really think about money very much, which is interesting because we really didn't have it. ⁓ I was raised by a single mom. She was a teacher. So we were living on a ⁓ teacher's salary, a public school teacher's salary. But you know, our needs were always met and we still had a lot of fun. But it wasn't really until I got to high school when I started meeting people from other schools, really from private schools and understanding, wow, some people have like really nice houses. some people don't share a really small bathroom with everyone in their family. They have multiple bathrooms. They have a carport or they have a garage or things that I just wasn't used to. And I always thought kind of growing up that people, at least in the South, went to private schools because of their religious beliefs. But really it was because they could afford to have a freedom of choice. And so that's when really I kind of understood that, yes, money can get you all the nice things, but it also gives you freedom of choice for those things. So as a parent now, ⁓ You know, that's something that's really important to me is just having the ability to make choices specifically around education that I know that my mom probably would have made a lot of different decisions had she had that capability when I was growing up. Courtney Cardin (03:26) So it sounds like it was around high school when you started connecting the idea of money being a pathway to freedom. I'd love to hear more about that. Do you remember your first job and how it felt to get that first paycheck? Erika (03:39) Yeah, so I've been working since I was 14. Probably wasn't old enough to be doing it, but I was getting paid, getting paid cash and then moved into real W-2 jobs and I worked straight through college. I have not stopped working since I started. And even before that, you know, I remember... getting a bunch of girls in the neighborhood together and creating like a babysitter's club. And we would go out and we would babysit for families in the neighborhood. And I would save up and that was my disposable income. I wanted a new shirt. I would have to have the money to go do it. We had money for basics, but anything fun like going to the movies or something, a new fad at the time, I was paying for it. And so that was instilled in me from a very early age. so I think that has a lot to do with my success. now in my career, in my drive and independence because I got those skills really early on by how early I started working at 14. Courtney Cardin (04:37) Yeah, I can relate to that. And my mom had a restaurant in Oklahoma and my first job was at 14 also. And I think we are of that era of the babysitter's club books. I think, you know, you made me realize we didn't give enough credit to the entrepreneurial spirit of those teenage girls. So good on you for turning that into a reality. Erika (04:42) Yeah. Yes, yes, yeah. And I love that you were in the hospitality business. I waited tables in college and I still say I made more money waiting tables in college and I did my first real job out of school. And I think that working those types of jobs really sets you up for success. You're doing time management, you're working with the public, you're problem solving on the fly. So I'm really grateful for those opportunities but I remember coming home at midnight and having to get up and go to school the next morning. I was not grateful in the moment but I am now looking back at it. Courtney Cardin (05:10) Totally. Thank couldn't agree more. And I'd be curious to also know how you think that the service industry also set you up for the role you're in now. I feel like you learned so much about how to deal with people. People have no problem lashing out at servers in a way that they wouldn't in any other space. And I think I would guess there are some lessons there that translate nicely into sort of people admin and the work that you're doing today. Erika (05:42) Yep. Yeah. And I think really in corporate America, there's so much focus on just execution and being able to handle multiple priorities at the same time. And you learn a lot of that in the service industry, whether it's retail or restaurants. I worked in a coffee shop. I've done all the things. And I think it also taught me the value of just what hard work can really do and how far that can get you. And that you can want all the nice things in the world, but if you're not willing to work for it, it's just not going to happen. ⁓ think that really shows up in my work ethic too. But yeah, just managing the complexity of people. As long as there are people working, there will always be a need for really strong HR professionals. Because working with people from diverse backgrounds and perspectives and experiences, there's always going to be challenges to work through for sure. Courtney Cardin (06:44) Definitely. And I love what you said about, you know, making sure that you can work and have all the nice things. And I'd love to like segue back to your muddy personality for a second. This is one of my favorite questions. Could you tell me about a recent embarrassing purchase that you've had or just reflecting on that? Erika (07:01) It's so funny because I'm sure if you asked my husband, he would be like, how in the world are you about to give this answer? But I'm actually really thoughtful with my spending. So over the last couple of years, I've really transitioned into ⁓ buying less, but being more thoughtful about what I'm buying, whether it's better quality or instead of trying to five, find alternative cheaper options and end up trying five different ones, just buy what you originally want in the first place. And so I think because of that, ⁓ approach, there's really not anything that I'm like, well, that was embarrassing. I can't believe I spent my money on that because I'm also a data, you know, I love data. I run the people analytics team or lead the people analytics team here. And, you know, I just love it. And so I do a lot of research before I buy anything. So I would like to say I don't really have any recent embarrassing purchases. Courtney Cardin (07:52) I love that. mean, we do talk about sort of how you've alluded to money as being a thing of freedom and giving you the thing that you actually want. And yeah, that comes with the time value of money, the time you spend researching things or returning things if you buy the wrong thing. So it's great that you're super intentional about that. ⁓ So love that answer, actually. You could tell your husband it was great answer. Erika (08:03) That's right. Thank you so much. Courtney Cardin (08:17) How does your money story influence how you think about pay and benefits for employees today? Erika (08:22) So I try to bring that same intentionality from my personal spending over into the business, right? I wanna make sure that I'm bringing the best ⁓ programs and bringing and using our culture into everything that we do while also being really mindful about cost. Fair pay is also really important to me. So I mentioned my mom was a teacher. We all know teachers don't get paid enough for what we're actually asking them to do. Anyone who's around school-aged children, Courtney Cardin (08:29) Mm-hmm. Erika (08:51) knows that. And so I think it's really important that we're paying employees fairly for what we're asking them to do and also just competitively ⁓ because it gives people that financial freedom. And so that's how I approach compensation. And I also think when we think about well-being programs, I think about how I want to be supported outside of work with my family and how my family wants to be supported. And so I kind of take that lens and put it right back in all the programs that we're Courtney Cardin (08:58) Mm-hmm. Erika (09:17) designing for our employees. Courtney Cardin (09:19) I think that's a really amazing approach. mean, you you are an employee of the company as well, so you are the perfect test subject to ask yourself that. So I'm curious, where do comp and benefits break down most often today, whether that's in pay equity, we've discussed, transparency, or even just the difficulty in understanding your total rewards package? Erika (09:27) Great. It is all of the above. ⁓ is something that I talk to my team about a lot. We've made really awesome strides in pay equity over the last couple of years. It's really been a focus in terms of just equal pay for equal work. It's a really simple concept. And it's something that's really important to us. But what is actually really surprising to me is how many people still don't understand their benefits or their paycheck or how 401k programs work. And I'm talking all levels of the organization. Courtney Cardin (10:03) Mm-hmm. Erika (10:10) from interns all the way up to senior executives. There seems to be just like a basic either lack of understanding or time to invest in yourself to learn about it. And so, you know, have kids I mentioned seven and nine. And so I would love to see more financial literacy taught early in school. I think that there's a huge gap in the in U.S. education system in terms of really setting people up and kids up for success in terms of really understanding it. And I see that every day across the employees here and at other companies I've worked for. So I think it's really around the understanding what's available to them aspect is where it's breaking down the most. Courtney Cardin (10:49) I think you bring up a really important point. We are definitely in new times with how quickly technology is changing. I think as a parent a lot about is the education system sort of set up aside from the fact that we don't pay teachers nearly enough. ⁓ Is it really set up to set our kids up for success in this brave new world we're entering? And I think part of setting that up for success for leaders in your space now are doing what our education system failed to do, right? Erika (11:08) Right. Courtney Cardin (11:19) people in understanding that your total compensation package, those benefits, that's meaningful value to you. That is part of your compensation package for a reason and those perks. Erika (11:29) Right. Courtney Cardin (11:31) are why you join the company, right? It's an expression of how the company helps you feel better. So I'm curious, how are some of these breakdowns affecting who's feeling empowered at work or stuck at work because they're not fully understanding the total value of their compensation package? Erika (11:48) Yeah, well think it's even bigger than that. When you think about the value of the compensation package, think about like the well-being programs. You know, we offer a slew of preventative care and opportunities for people to go and do things so they can catch things early. get it treated early so they can have more time to spend with their family and spend their late years in life being well. And what we're seeing is really an underutilization of even those basic programs. And so it goes beyond just people not understanding and so they kind of stay in one spot or they feel stuck or they're not maximizing, you know, all the different. Courtney Cardin (12:16) Mm-hmm. Erika (12:24) money investment programs, whether it's using an HSA or investing in their 401k, but it even goes down to the basics of just their general well-being and making sure that they're carving time out and going to get the colonoscopies, the mammograms, going to get their blood taken on a regular basis to their cholesterol. All of those things that we know have an impact on quality of life if it's not caught early enough. And we're seeing, again, total utilization gone down since COVID actually. ⁓ COVID took people out of the workplace, put people at home, and people really stopped doing those preventative care items with their health care. And we're really seeing the impact on that now, which is kind what we predicted would happen in the post-COVID world, but it's actually much worse than we thought it was going to be. So it's something that know employers are really taking a look at ⁓ because, yes, there's impact to the business, but there is real impact. on people's lives and their abilities really to thrive and to be with their families, which is ultimately what everyone wants to do. Courtney Cardin (13:31) Yeah, I didn't realize that people, know, obviously COVID shut down the world, but I didn't realize that that was having a continuing lag effect where people didn't go, continue to not seek the preventive care. Can you share something that you've seen in your organization that's helped you move from just this attracting talent baseline to really transforming lives as you just sort of highlighted? Erika (13:52) Yeah. There's something that I'm super proud of that the team has ⁓ really done an amazing job and it's something called Thrive Together. And it's a program that we've really built over the last couple of years. And we've got all of these initiatives that are really centered and come around moments that matter. And so we offer benefits. Like one of the benefits we offer is called survivor benefits. Something happens to one of our employees and they pass away unexpectedly while they're an employee of ours. We extend their salaries. This is separate from life. insurance separate from anything they sign up for. We automatically continue their pay for their dependents so they can keep the lights on their house. They can put food on the table. They can continue to pay the bills because all of that paperwork and if you've lost anyone close to you or a spouse, you know it's really devastating for the family. And so we want to take that opportunity to take care of people in that moment. It's a moment that matters. I think of when you have a baby, right? You have a nine month old baby. When I had my first child, I came back to work at nine and a weeks. I was struggling with postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression. My first day back, I hopped on a plane and had to go on a work trip for a week. I cried the entire four hours on that plane. I was not the best version of myself. And he had extreme guilt and just physically I was not ready to come back to work much less kind of emotionally. And so having lived through that experience myself and realizing, yes, I was at work, but I wasn't really at work. I wasn't giving like my best self. And so we've created, you parental leave ⁓ where moms and dads, get 12 weeks bonding time basically on top of any FMLA leave. So, you know, if I were to have another baby today, I'd have about five months paid time off. And then I would have a transition period to where I'd be supported to come back part time to figure out, okay, what does this mean dropping off at daycare and picking up and what's the new normal look like for the household in terms of, you know, keeping things organized, getting groceries. Like those are big moments that matter for our employees. for their families and so we're really thinking about how do we support end to end when it's not just kind of that typical eight to five but how do we support you around the clock so you can show up as your best self both at work but also outside of work too. Courtney Cardin (16:06) I love that. There's a lot of interesting research around sort of whether or not we should be encouraging people to show up as their whole selves at work and sort of the pros and cons of doing that. And I think the approach that you're taking of acknowledging that people are actually still people and there are moments that matter, it means a lot to support them in those moments. And yeah, when you have a baby, I mean, that first year is, know, you like think you got it. And then three months later, things change. ⁓ Erika (16:21) Yes. ⁓ course. You don't. ⁓ Right, sleep regressions, the illness from daycare. And then you get to enter this really ⁓ interesting spot where you're still taking care of kids, but then maybe you have aging parents as well. And so you hear the sandwich generation. mean, just the pressure that's put on employees. And so to think that you can carve out work and carve out personal, you're kind of missing the big picture. And so we're trying to create programs that really look at everything, moments that matter. How do we help our employees thrive? Because we want people to bring their whole selves and we want people to be all in. Courtney Cardin (17:02) Yeah, if you're spending a third of your life at work, it's hard to carve that out for the rest of your life. Have you seen measurable impact, whether it's an engagement or retention or equity, since initiating these programs? Erika (17:05) Exactly. Exactly. ⁓ Yeah. We have, we've seen a major increase ⁓ really across the board. And we've done this kind of cultural renovation, which includes the Thrive Together programs and a whole host of other things along with our business transformation. But we've seen a decrease in turnover. We've seen an increase in employee engagement, employee sentiment. And we have seen just across the board, the energy is just incredible. We've also seen it in our stock price. Our stock price has gone up. mean, across the board from a business perspective, We are really entering kind of this new era of, we call it play to win. And I firmly believe that our culture and all of the work that we've done around Thrive Together and supporting our employees has just really amplified everything that we're doing from a business perspective. And we see it in the data, which is really exciting. Courtney Cardin (18:01) Yeah, I was just thinking that. I'm sure like reading those survey reports. I'm also a data nerd must be like so validating. Looking ahead, I'd love to know what comp or benefits trends do you think will most shape employee experience in the next year or two as we navigate sort of the economic uncertainties and transitions that are happening in the workplace? Erika (18:06) So fun. Yeah, it is. You know, my hope is that we start to really get our arms around kind of the health epidemic that I think we have in the United States. You know, we look at the United States and we're as a whole, we're very unhealthy and we spend a lot of money on health care. So it's very fragile and something's got to give soon. One thing that I'm really encouraged about is, you know, I see the younger generation and they're walking around with their big Stanley water bottles and they're going to yoga retreats and yoga classes. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't think I drank a sip of water in college. I was going out partying every night. And I think there's a different approach to wellness and wellbeing that we're seeing with the younger generation. That's also like, you know, I'm not going to get burnt out. I'm going to create some healthy boundaries for myself. I'm going to make sure I take care of myself. And so I hope we see that quicker and sooner, and I hope that spreads to the entire workforce. That's on the wellbeing side. On comp, I think we'll continue to see ⁓ a push for equal pay for equal work. You know, at least I hope we do. I think that's something that's really important. ⁓ And I also think continued transparency will be expected in terms of from companies that people work for, but also understanding you can't really have pay equity without pay transparency. So I think we'll continue to see more push for that. Courtney Cardin (19:42) Yeah, and there's a ton of science behind that. So ⁓ pay transparency is the number one thing that's actually helping promote the pay, know, fair pay. that's, I'm so excited to hear that you're doing that. What mindset shifts or guardrails do you think other leaders need to keep in mind to try and keep pay fair and make pay fair and empowering? Erika (19:48) Yeah. Yeah. I think if you center around transparency, the pay equity will follow. I think people get nervous with pay equity for some reason, but when you truly approach it of equal pay for equal work, and of course you take into consideration performance and the background and the skill sets that people bring. ⁓ But at the end of the day, we want to pay people fairly competitively for the work that they're doing. And so, you know, for anybody that is in a situation where maybe they don't... they don't know if that's a priority at the company they're at, ask. ⁓ See if you can get some more information on what the policy or the program is. And people should feel really comfortable speaking with our leadership team about it. if there's not a lot of transparency there, I will say there's lots of companies where that is a priority. And I think that that is becoming more more important, especially if you want to be an employer of choice, that you have, not just about pay, think transparency should be a core value of many corporations. Thank Courtney Cardin (21:04) I love that. And how would you, just to follow up on this, if you were sort of leaders at other companies who were asking how to do this or who maybe felt uncomfortable about this, what would you tell them? Like how would you encourage them to encourage their employees to have these conversations knowing that they might not feel very comfortable at first? Erika (21:23) Yeah, I mean, I think it starts with that direct relationship between a manager and employee. And so I think you should have regular check-ins with your employees, not just about money, but about how are they feeling? What do they want to do in terms of next steps? What does development look like for them? Because development for some people may be, yes, I want to get to the next level and I want to make more money. But for others, it may be different opportunities to learn a new skill set. ⁓ And so I think having that open, honest dialogue is the most important thing that leaders can do. for their employees, understand what motivates them, and have honest conversations about it. We have a saying, clear as kind. so providing clarity to your employees around what's realistic or what's not realistic, whether it's from a pay perspective or the job that they want to get that maybe they don't have a skill set for. I think just opening up those lines of communication is so, important. And so we spend a lot of time training our leaders on how to have those courageous conversations. Sometimes it's easier to sweep things under the rug and then all of sudden you have an employee that's leaving that you had no idea that they weren't happy in their current role. Exactly. Courtney Cardin (22:26) How are you gonna know if you don't ask? Makes perfect sense. So let's get into the part that I think we both love. What tools and data are you currently using that's helping you measure and improve pay equity, wellness, Thrive Together programs? What are you seeing that's really exciting you and what do you wanna see more of as you dive in more to the wellness side? Erika (22:48) So we have some really awesome partners that we partner with both on the pay equity side as well as our wellness and well-being. And I'm actually really excited to see what AI will do in this space in terms of making that experience more seamless, giving us better insights, and really making the experiences very personalized. Because today we have, my gosh, we have the coolest well-being programs. Every program we have has a positive return on investment. It's a win-win for both the employee and the company. If it's not, we don't do it and we pivot and look for something else. But it's a lot and it can be really overwhelming. And so, you as we continue to think about how we bring AI in and really just serve it and say, okay, we know that Courtney had a baby nine months ago. And so what we're going to do is we're going to say, okay, Courtney, here's the three things that you may be really interested in looking into. Because we see you just had a baby, whether it's setting up a special savings account, whether it's, you know, caregiving, all, whatever it may be, creating those like, almost like bundles. And the use of AI can really make that seamless and really specific. There's a lot of challenges around, you know, personal information and HIPAA and all those sorts of things that, you know, so that the wellbeing and health may lag a little bit as we kind of try to figure out how do we do that really intentionally and thoughtfully. But I'm super excited about the possibilities of AI when we think about comp and well. and really just data analytics and all the things that my team is working on. It's really exciting. Courtney Cardin (24:19) Yeah, I think back to my friends telling me that Amazon knew they were pregnant before they did. And you got to think with AI, we could really help people. You don't know what you don't know at that point. So it'd be great if the robots. Erika (24:24) Yeah, right. Yeah. Because people could be leaving things on the table, right? They may not know about a program and we give it to them and they're like, what? You know, like we offer caregiver backup care days. So let's say your child goes to daycare, but the daycare is closed for some reason. You need to bring someone in to help care for your child. We help you with that. But if you don't know about that, you're scrambling at 7.30 AM trying to find out how to, you know, get your child taken care of because you have an important meeting at work or whatever it is. And so getting the right information at the right time is something that AI can really help us with. Courtney Cardin (25:05) Totally agree, it's definitely a focus for us and I think there's so much opportunity and potential there so I'm excited to hear that that's something that you're excited coming down the pike. ⁓ Just to wrap, one last question for you, for our users, everything we do is based in behavioral psychology and I'm curious, what's one 30 day experiment that you can give listeners ⁓ to try and boost their financial wellness or their engagement? Erika (25:30) I would say, and this is a plug for my employees too. Take the next 30 days and really understand all the offerings that are available to you for your employer. Your employer is spending money on programs that are known to have a positive impact on your health, on your family's health, if they are utilized. And so take the time, we're all really busy. We're all juggling multiple priorities throughout the day. And a lot of times we kind of push our health and push us to the wayside. So set aside, put an hour on your calendar to really dive through what's offered. put an hour the next week to start to connect with some vendors, put an hour the next week after you've collected information to sit down and talk with your family members about it, and an hour the next week to actually enroll in the programs, download the apps, whatever is available, and really think about how you're going to make what's already offered and paid for for you. In most cases, how are you going to make it work? Most people don't understand their investment strategy in there for a 1K. Take the time, learn about it, because again, employers are spending the money on it and it's something you're leaving on the table if you don't take the time to learn about it. Courtney Cardin (26:38) I love that, I think that's brilliant. One thing that a coach told me when I thought an hour might be too daunting was just take five minutes to sit with your calendar and think about the hour. So if an hour seems scary, maybe take five minutes just to look at your calendar, see what happens. Erika (26:44) Yeah. Totally. Yeah, start small. That's right. Yeah. Courtney Cardin (26:55) ⁓ This has been such a pleasure, Erica. Thank you so, so much. ⁓ It seems like you're really focused on sort of the future of work and wellbeing. And generally one of the things that people are consistently leaving on the table is a full understanding of their total rewards benefits. And that's not just like time. They're leaving real money on the table. They're leaving real opportunities to improve their wellbeing, to manage their work-life balance that their employers have set up for them. I'd love to know where can listeners connect and find you. Erika (27:28) I am on LinkedIn, Erica Hurtado-Dupont, and I would love to connect. Courtney Cardin (27:33) Amazing. Thank you so much. This has been such a pleasure. Erika (27:37) Awesome, thanks Courtney.