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The Secret Hitchcock From Hollywood Historian Nat Segaloff Now You Know · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 2: Recording in progress i just i'd love to get all
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  Speaker 2: the way through it you know it's true and everybody's
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: a critic i guess serves me right well.
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  Speaker 1: One man who's not a critic is mr collins right
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  Speaker 1: here we're just talking about puppies and watching television with
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  Speaker 1: us oh my god my dog is with me at
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  Speaker 1: all times i mean i swear to god that i'm
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  Speaker 1: her pet i mean it's she takes me for the
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  Speaker 1: walks and she lets me know when it's time for
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  Speaker 1: ice cream i don't do it that's her job what's
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  Speaker 1: your dog's name My job is to sit here and
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  Speaker 1: try to figure out why I don't have Dr. Hitchcock
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  Speaker 1: as my psychologist, because I just learned through your book.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
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  Speaker 1: Can you imagine that?
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  Speaker 2: If you had Alfred Hitchcock as your psychologist, you would
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  Speaker 2: be in the rubber room. He was a brilliant man,
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  Speaker 2: probably the best psychologist that Hollywood has ever known. Because
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  Speaker 2: he could play the audience like a symphony orchestra.
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  Speaker 1: I was going to ask about that because there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of psychology that goes into what we do as well,
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  Speaker 1: but it's not at the level he played it. But
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to know the psychology of who's receiving.
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  Speaker 1: Do you not?
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  Speaker 2: You're right. Do you use semantic programming if they still
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  Speaker 2: use that term there?
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  Speaker 1: I've not heard that in such a long time, but
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't that be a great thing to kind of step into?
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  Speaker 1: But at the same time, be aware of where we
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  Speaker 1: are today when it comes to that kind of programming.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'll try to do that in a more
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  Speaker 2: workmanlike way, but we'll go there. Again, talk about how
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  Speaker 2: to manipulate the audience without hurting them.
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  Speaker 1: That's it. Well, see, that's the thing about it, because
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  Speaker 1: I call that hidden speak. And it's like you can
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  Speaker 1: take certain words and certain thoughts and twist them around
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  Speaker 1: and put them in a way to where a reader
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  Speaker 1: or a listener can understand them better, but they still
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  Speaker 1: didn't get the full depth until you continue on with
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  Speaker 1: the story.
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  Speaker 2: That's true. You plant little seeds along the way. I
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  Speaker 2: don't want to use the... the S word anywhere in
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  Speaker 2: the recording, but there are certain moments in movies where
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  Speaker 2: the whole audience goes, oh, shh. That's it. Because some
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  Speaker 2: hot elements have come together. You had no idea where
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  Speaker 2: they were coming, and then all of a sudden, bang,
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  Speaker 2: they hit you, and you're totally glued.
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  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that, if Hitchcock
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  Speaker 1: is not the master of the Easter egg, because he
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  Speaker 1: plants seeds.
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  Speaker 2: He does. He does. And sometimes those aren't recognizable until
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  Speaker 2: you've seen the film a couple of times. They're different.
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  Speaker 2: But going back for a moment, one of those things,
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  Speaker 2: remember the movie 2001?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: We've got to have W with Hitchcock. At the end
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  Speaker 2: of the first half of the film, Dave and Frank
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  Speaker 2: go off to one of the pods because they don't
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  Speaker 2: want Hal to hear them. And they turn off all
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  Speaker 2: the microphones. They turn off everything. And they talk about
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  Speaker 2: disconnecting Hal. And what does Kubrick do? He cuts to
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  Speaker 2: Hal reading their lips. And then we have intermissions. And
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  Speaker 2: the whole audience went, oh, my God. All in one.
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  Speaker 2: That's playing. And that's what Hitchcock was able to do
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  Speaker 2: with every movie.
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  Speaker 1: And you know what, though? I absolutely think of that
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  Speaker 1: in 2001 when I have Alexa, because I swear to God,
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  Speaker 1: everything that I say she's picking up on because I
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  Speaker 1: watch her lights in the other room, sit there and
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  Speaker 1: blinkity blinkity blink. They know what we're doing. Hitchcock knew
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  Speaker 1: what he was doing.
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  Speaker 2: I'll tell you how bad it is. I have an
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  Speaker 2: iPhone here whose name is S-I-R-I. Yeah. If you say,
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  Speaker 2: right now, you say, hey, and then that name, and
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  Speaker 2: I'll see if it turns on. Go ahead, say it.
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  Speaker 1: Hey, Siri.
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  Speaker 2: There she is.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, see?
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  Speaker 2: Anybody can say it. Anybody can say it.
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  Speaker 1: That's why I have to physically turn off Alexa when
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  Speaker 1: I come into this room, because I don't even have
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  Speaker 1: to see her name anymore because they've got her so talkative.
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  Speaker 1: And the thing, what I love about her, though, is
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I'll go, can you help me out with this interview? No,
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  Speaker 1: I cannot. And I love it that she tells me
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  Speaker 1: no all the time. I have to hear that. And
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  Speaker 1: the reason why is because she feels she can't put
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  Speaker 1: the same amount of passion into my questions that she
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  Speaker 1: and I'm going, OK, I love you for that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, now have you been following that our big screen
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  Speaker 2: TVs are monitoring everything we say and do in the
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  Speaker 2: room and they even keep track of the programming we have?
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  Speaker 2: I truly believe that. LG has been accused of this.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe Roku as well. I'm not sure, but it's. A
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  Speaker 2: bit paranoid making. I can't even keep track of what
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  Speaker 2: I'm doing. And then the machines in my house are
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  Speaker 2: doing it for me.
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  Speaker 1: Dude, I got an LG flat screen TV. So yes,
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  Speaker 1: I can relate with you on this. And I swear
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  Speaker 1: to God, it does happen because I'll sit there and
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  Speaker 1: look at my wife going, what, what, what, what, how's
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  Speaker 1: this happening? And it's because of that, because it's listening
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  Speaker 1: or it's watching through algorithms.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, it is. I'll do research for a book online.
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  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, Amazon is trying to sell
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  Speaker 2: me stuff that I'm doing research on.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but see, I mean, in talking about the secret Hitchcock,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I've always wanted to know and I've been
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  Speaker 1: so fascinated with who he has worked with in his
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  Speaker 1: movies because there was a guy by his name is
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  Speaker 1: Tom Jackson, who was my O.M. that said there's no
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  Speaker 1: such thing as a great leader. It's a great team.
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  Speaker 1: You've got to surround yourself with people that will take
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  Speaker 1: you and then you get the credit for it and
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  Speaker 1: they get paid.
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  Speaker 2: Well, this is true. Hitchcock always liked to work with
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  Speaker 2: movie stars for a number of reasons. First of all,
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  Speaker 2: the bigger the star, the more budget he could get
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  Speaker 2: from the studio to make the movie the way he wanted.
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  Speaker 2: But secondly, he used them as shorthand. He knew that
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  Speaker 2: if you had a star that the audience already knew,
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  Speaker 2: he could eliminate most of the character exposition and the
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  Speaker 2: audience would know right away. Oh, it's Cary Grant? Okay,
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  Speaker 2: it's Cary Grant. Or this is Jimmy Stewart, although Stewart
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  Speaker 2: had a bit more complex characters in the Hitchcock films
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  Speaker 2: than Grant did. And so it was really a commercial
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  Speaker 2: as well as an artistic decision that Hitchcock went with
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  Speaker 2: the actors he went with. When he used some of
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  Speaker 2: the less well-known actors, such as, say, John Forsythe and Topaz,
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  Speaker 2: the film wasn't as successful, even though Forsythe was a
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  Speaker 2: very good actor.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it's really I'm glad you brought that up
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  Speaker 1: because you say John Forsyth and I perk up right away.
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  Speaker 1: But then again, I'm watching old Hitchcock episodes on We
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  Speaker 1: and Antenna TV. So therefore, I mean, now when I
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  Speaker 1: go back after studying this book, it's a whole completely
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  Speaker 1: different vibe because you're reopening my eyes instead of me
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  Speaker 1: getting this interpretation of, oh, that's John Forsyth. No, look
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  Speaker 1: at it through the time that it was released.
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  Speaker 2: That's important for any movie, especially if you're looking at
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  Speaker 2: old films from the 30s, where people are wearing costumes
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  Speaker 2: that you wouldn't even put on in Halloween. Well, that
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  Speaker 2: was the tenor of the time. In fact, a lot
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  Speaker 2: of movies are now that are getting canceled because they
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  Speaker 2: have bad attitudes toward race or sex or whatever. At
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  Speaker 2: the time they were made, people were just absolutely naive
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  Speaker 2: about that thing. And in most cases, They weren't trying
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  Speaker 2: to harm people. They were simply using accepted stereotypes. Times
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  Speaker 2: have changed, but that doesn't mean that we have to
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  Speaker 2: go back and re-edit the films. We have to watch them, however,
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  Speaker 2: through the perspective of history. And it's the hardest thing
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  Speaker 2: to do for a film critic is to put yourself
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  Speaker 2: back into the context of the time in which a
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  Speaker 2: film was made.
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  Speaker 1: See, and isn't that part of him being so meticulous
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  Speaker 1: because he could foresee how we would react any time
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  Speaker 1: in the future?
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  Speaker 2: This is Hitchcock's talent, which is to make films essentially
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  Speaker 2: in Hitchcock world. When you see an Alfred Hitchcock movie,
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  Speaker 2: you go back into his frame of mind. And if
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  Speaker 2: you look at the formalism in his films, how he
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  Speaker 2: moves the camera, how he uses lighting, how he uses music,
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  Speaker 2: the films really haven't dated that much except for the
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  Speaker 2: fashions and the cars. Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I always believed that his suspense came from his personal life.
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  Speaker 1: In other words, if he was sitting there waiting for
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  Speaker 1: a banana split to come to his table, he knew
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  Speaker 1: that the energy that went into that was something he
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  Speaker 1: needed to put into one of his movies.
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  Speaker 2: Hitchcock spent his entire life creating tension in other people
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  Speaker 2: and avoiding it in his own life. And so whether
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  Speaker 2: you put the chocolate or the vanilla and the strawberry
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  Speaker 2: in one order in a banana split, Hitchcock wanted to
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  Speaker 2: make sure it was there in just the right order.
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  Speaker 2: Whatever that meant to him, because whatever it meant to him,
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  Speaker 2: chances are it would mean that to the audience too.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more Alfred Hitchcock on the
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  Speaker 1: way as we talk with Nat Sigaloff about The Secret Hitchcock.
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  Speaker 1: The name of the book, The Secret Hitchcock. We are
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  Speaker 1: back with Nat Sigaloff. Well, you gave me an eye-opening
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  Speaker 1: experience inside this book in the way that you explained
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  Speaker 1: that Hitchcock was into branding his name. I'm thinking, I
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  Speaker 1: just thought that was a 2000 kind of thing. I
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  Speaker 1: didn't realize this was a Hitchcock thing as well.
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  Speaker 2: Before Hitchcock, probably the best known filmmaker was Cecil B. DeMille.
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  Speaker 2: But Hitchcock, because he was represented by MCA, the most
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  Speaker 2: powerful agency in the business, and Lou Wasserman, who ran
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  Speaker 2: MCA and then went over and bought Universal, he got
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  Speaker 2: Hitchcock to do television. And so the Hitchcock, we know,
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  Speaker 2: really came about because of the introductions he would do
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  Speaker 2: playfully for the Alfred Hitchcock television series, which were written,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, by James Allard, all of his intros,
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  Speaker 2: he'd knock them off in one day. And that was
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  Speaker 2: made Hitchcock a big star. He also had made cameo
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  Speaker 2: appearances in his films, as we well know. But after
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  Speaker 2: he did the television series, he became so well known
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  Speaker 2: that it became a burden doing the cameos in his films.
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  Speaker 2: So he then rushed to get the cameos out of
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  Speaker 2: the way as soon as possible. So the audience wouldn't
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  Speaker 2: be distracted looking for him. They'd want to watch the
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  Speaker 2: movie he made.
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  Speaker 1: That's me. I'm so sorry, but I am guilty of that.
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  Speaker 1: That's exactly, and you see, and I'll do that the
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  Speaker 1: moment I'll go, there he is. And I do, my
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  Speaker 1: whole entire persona will lower because I just saw him,
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  Speaker 1: that game is over. Go to the next thing, get
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  Speaker 1: into the story. That is so me.
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  Speaker 2: Right, watch the damn film now you got each other. Well,
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  Speaker 2: the first time he did it was in a, He
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  Speaker 2: did it first in a silent film. I forget exactly
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  Speaker 2: the title of it right now, but it was because
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  Speaker 2: one of the actors. didn't show up and he had
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  Speaker 2: to fill in. And then it became a kind of
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  Speaker 2: a good luck charm. A lot of directors will do
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  Speaker 2: it now, but Hitch was the one who really popularized it.
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  Speaker 1: You brought up silent films and I have always been
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  Speaker 1: talking about, especially lately, that I believe that we should
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  Speaker 1: go into another silent film generation because it's When earbuds
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  Speaker 1: don't work, people are still watching the screen. And I'm thinking,
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  Speaker 1: God dang, we've got to tap into that right there.
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  Speaker 1: They don't need words. They just need to see the movement.
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  Speaker 2: Hitchcock made silent films. Of course, he began in silent films.
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  Speaker 2: The dialogue and plot complications are just what he did
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  Speaker 2: to keep the audience involved. But if you turn the
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  Speaker 2: sound down on a Hitchcock movie, you can still pretty
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  Speaker 2: much know what's going on because he tells his stories visually.
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  Speaker 2: And that's, again, another level. He doesn't have two people
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  Speaker 2: sitting in a room talking. unless there's something important for
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  Speaker 2: them to talk about, or there's a bomb under the table.
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  Speaker 1: Was it the great mystery of Hitchcock, or is it
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  Speaker 1: just something that he felt was a continuation of his legacy?
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's very perceptive of you, Arrow, because it happened
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  Speaker 2: to have been both of those. He knew that what
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  Speaker 2: bothered him would bother the audience, and what would thrill
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  Speaker 2: him would thrill the audience. He was a mass of
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  Speaker 2: contradictions as a man. He was also somewhat insecure, afraid
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  Speaker 2: of so many things. He had likes and dislikes. And
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  Speaker 2: he figured the audience would, too. And he was right
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  Speaker 2: most of the time.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, see, now I feel less conceited because people will
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  Speaker 1: ask me all the time. They'll say, will you talk
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  Speaker 1: with this person? Will you talk? And I go, no.
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  Speaker 1: And they go, why? Because it doesn't interest me. And see,
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  Speaker 1: because if it doesn't interest me, how can I interest you, Nat?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm honored that you're talking to me and has
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: done so so many times. But you see, this is
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  Speaker 2: what we do for a living. If I'm not interested
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: in something, it's really hard to write about it, but
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I do. I'm not one of these artists who say, oh,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I have to be inspired. No, give me a damn
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: paycheck and I'll write about it. But other than that,
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  Speaker 2: I do really like to be involved in something. And
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I must say the Hitchcock book really tore off and
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  Speaker 2: made me write it. Actually, it was my agent's idea.
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  Speaker 2: Lee Sobel is my super agent. And he said, Nat,
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  Speaker 2: it's time you wrote your Hitchcock book. Why? Everybody else
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: has written a Hitchcock book. He said, well, find something
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  Speaker 2: new because Hitchcock is one of the Beatles of the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: film industry, along with Orson Welles and Stanley Kubrick and
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: John Ford. And he said, write your damn Hitchcock book.
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  Speaker 2: And I did.
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  Speaker 1: No, I've done research on you. And here's the reason
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that I felt in my heart that you finally did this,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: because you had to wait until that moment you felt
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: it in your heart that nobody's going to write a
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: book about Hitchcock like you. And I swear to God,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: when I saw this, I went, of course, now is
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the time because he set that stage up all of
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: these years.
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  Speaker 2: I'm going to copy that down and use it as
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  Speaker 2: my review blurb. Thank you very much.
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  Speaker 1: But it is total time because you're a man that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: we trust. And that is so important when it comes
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to me putting my eyes in what I'm doing research
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: or I want to be entertained or if I'm watching
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: an old Hitchcock show and I need to have some
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: information that I know that ChatGPT is not going to
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: give me, I go to your book.
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  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. Thank you very much. The book was
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: different for me because I'm against navel-gazing. You know, there's
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of academic books about what this sign means
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: or this word means. And those are all valid and
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: those are all tourist and that's just fine. I think
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: anybody who gets to make a movie is lucky to
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: get to make the movie and they're lucky if they
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: can put into it whatever they want to. And so
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I avoided writing that kind of so-called scholarly book. My
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: bent of writing after writing thousands of newspaper articles before
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I picked up a book is to do as accessible
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: a writing as I possibly can. And that's what I
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: tried to do in The Secret Hitchcock is to make
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a book for the person who's never read a Hitchcock
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: book would want to read. And I think I was
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  Speaker 2: able to pull that off by being a little bit
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  Speaker 2: more objective and not immersing myself to that extent. Although
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: there are a number of observations I'm proud that I made.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Isn't that because that you yourself have become the master
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of the headlines punch? In other words, you get our
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: attention with that first paragraph and then you give us
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a payoff. Not everybody gives us a payoff like you do.
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  Speaker 2: That's what writing is. I mean, I'm a journalist. I'm
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a book writer, right? I believe in getting their attention.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: You know, it's the old thing, how do you train
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: a mule? Well, you pick up a 2x4. What's the 2x4? Well,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you hit him to get his attention. Well, my first
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: paragraph is the 2x4. Nothing against mules, by the way.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Nothing against mules. I like mules.
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  Speaker 1: Why didn't he include a superhero or somebody like that
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  Speaker 1: in his movies? Because I do search that when I'm
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: on WeTV or Antenna TV, I really do look for
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: things like that. Like, okay, this is what inspired them
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: to do this with DC or them. They did this
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: with Marvel. I don't pick up on that vibe when
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: it comes to Hitchcock. He was in his own little world.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there is one little inch of that in North
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: by Northwest, which is essentially a James Bond movie before
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: there were James Bond movies. But you're right. Other than that,
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  Speaker 2: Hitchcock liked to work with real people. In fact, that
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: was his bent. He believed in making movies about the
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: ordinary person in the extraordinary circumstances and how each of
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: us could rise to a certain occasion. But, I mean,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: the idea of having a superhero or anybody wearing leotards
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: in an Alfred Hitchcock film is sort of like looking
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: at an Ingmar Bergman movie and saying, gee, this would
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: be better with a car chase.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Now, do you, when you do research like this, now
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: this is creative person to creative person. Did you feel
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the presence of a Hitchcock with you? Because every time
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I bring out my Mont Blanc Agatha Christie, I swear
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: to God, I want to write mysteries left and right.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Do you go through the same thing where you have
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: little trinkets or something that say, all right, today, where
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: is my Hitchcock trinket?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Having read and heard your stuff, Errol, I know you're
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: a much more spiritual person than I am. I'm far
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: more pragmatic. But I'll tell you, I felt I was
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: touching a piece of the true cross when I went
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to the Academy Museum of the Motion Pictures and I
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: was able to pull out both the Cary Grant and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the Albert Hitchcock files and actually hold pieces of paper
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that they had signed or written notes on. I mean,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: it really is like touching the true cross because these
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: people looked at it and they wrote on it and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: that's them. And in fact, one of the things I
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: have in the book, which doesn't help the reader, is
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I have an autograph of Alfred Hitchcock. He would not
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: just sign his name, but he would draw that famous
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: profile of his. We see him in silhouette. And so
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: that is my authentic Alfred Hitchcock autograph. He didn't give
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: it to me, unfortunately. He gave it to a woman
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: named Jane Badgers, who is my friend, who is his publicist.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: But she gave me a copy of it.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: But see, that's part of the continuation. That's passing it forward.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Do you see it as that?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure. We're all in our business trying to make
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the next generation understand what the previous generation knew. We
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: have to make connections, which is why, for example, when
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you're playing music on the show, you not only have
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: to get the oldies so that you have the listeners
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: know what they already know, but you've got to educate
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the listeners so that here's another generation of music coming up.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Here's new music you might like. And how you program
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: it is essential to getting people listening from one song
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to the other semantically, if you will. And that's the
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: way you build your audience and you also pass along
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the culture.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: See, I'm shocked that you have not done a music
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: book yet and called it something about the three-minute mysteries
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: or the three-minute love stories and stuff. Because Barry Manilow
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: will tell you that even a song jingle has all
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: the drama and mystery you could ever handle.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Every great songwriter knows that a song, whether we're talking
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Stephen Sondheim or Irving Berlin... A song is a little play.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: It's a three-act structure. And every line in a song,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: every line of lyric, is another scene in that play.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And the best of those that progress the story develop
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: character and leave the audience someplace better than they were
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: when it started. Unless it's a country western song. In
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: that case, you feel worse by the end of the song. Wow.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I can't believe how 20 minutes goes by so quickly.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Every time you and I, Nat, get together, it feels
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: like we're just getting started. It's like, oh, God, if
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I don't get off, Matt, I mean, Michael's going to
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: get on there and say, you've got to end it, Arrow.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: You've got to end it. You're going overboard.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Well, you're a very special person, Arrow. You have a
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: lot going in your label. You build so much of
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: it onto the people who talk with you. I truly
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: appreciate every chance I get for us to speak.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Well, you've got to come back to this show. You
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: know that door's always going to be open for you, dude.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I got a book next year and I hope maybe
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: we'll talk before then, but certainly next year we'll do it.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Well, you be brilliant. I'm looking forward to that. Okay.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Thanks, my friend.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: You bet.