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Elon Musk Mind Blowing Interview!!! · Elon Musk Thinking

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Yeah. I well, it is hard for books to compete with the much
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greater stimulus of things online. You know, it's I mean, the computers
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at this point optuned to maximum olymbic and cortical resonance. So it's very difficult
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for books to compete. I think you got to probably just have some no
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devices time, and so your only choice is read a book. Right,
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do you what's your regimen of reading? I mean, are you as voracious
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today as you were in early days? I mean do you sort of etch
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out an hour or two a day, you know, I've got to get
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in my reading or how does it work for you? No, it's really
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if there's something interesting to read, I'll usually read it at pretty at high
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speed. And I find it actually is helpful to have a book read to
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you to go to sleep, so as a way to sort of, you
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know, take your mind off Familion problems at the end of the day and
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hope you go to sleep. Is is have the book as an audiobook and
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have it read to you. And my apologies for apparently causing you nightmares and
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for my book, I mean it was The Parasitic Mind. It's very good
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book. Medit to everyone in fact I did recommend it to everyone. Yes,
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but it is it really does hit the nail on the head with respect
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to the sort of work mind virus that is damaging civilization. When did you
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first? I mean, so I'll first answer my question, then I'll turn
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it to you. So I first noticed all of these mind viruses in my
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academic work when I was trying to introduce, you know, evolutionary psychology and
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evolutionary biology in the business school so that people can, you know, have
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a greater explanation of why people do the things that they do. And most
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of my social science colleagues were so dead set against using biology to explain human
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phenomena. So that was my original sort of aha moment. We have a
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problem. When was it for you that you noticed that something was wrong?
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Well, I guess if you go back and say, when did you see
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the first signs? I mean, I could you could arguably say it was
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even twenty years ago. But when did it become much more severe? I'd
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say about five years ago, I mean the climate just before COVID. And
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if that COVID, I think is part of the you know, the degree
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of panic over COVID was exacerbated by this unwilling, unwillingness to question science or
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question the accepted view and simply be spoon fed things from the government, and
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and and also to shut down descent and shut down any questioning of the narrative.
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So this is because that's really part of passig for for for any given
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sort of virus, whereas where or you know, mental or or digital,
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it has to have defenses otherwise that virus won't survive. So one of the
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defenses of the work my virus is to shut down any questioning exactly that's I
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mean, it's that you say this because I was recently asked on a show.
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It was hosted by a British psychiatrist, and he asked me, Elon,
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what, of all your years as an academic, as a behavioral scientist,
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what has been the singular phenomenon that has surprised you the most about humans?
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And it's and my answer is going to speak to what we're talking about
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here, And so I thought about it for a minute and I thought,
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Okay, well, probably what surprises me the most is people's inability to change
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their anchored position once it is deeply anchored, despite the fact that I might
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build you a huge normalogical network of femultive evidence to show you that my position
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might be vertical. There's no way to sway you. So the question that
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I had asked you is what someone asked me. What has surprised me the
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most over my thirty years as an academic? And my answer was the inability
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of people to change their minds despite the fact that you might give them,
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you know, an unassailable tsunami of evidence. They just go la la la,
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I don want to hear it. What has been in all of your
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career? What has been the singular, you know, human phenomenon that has
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surprised you the most about humans? Well, that's probably a long list.
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There also surprising the most. I mean, maybe I would share some of
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you to you, which is that we humans, once they take a position,
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even when presented with an overwhelming amount of evidence that you know, on
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the minds the position nonetheless hold on to that position. I found I find
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to be just a shing because I aspire to change my opinion if presented with
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new facts. But this is a turns out to be a very unusual thing.
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So and in a sense, I mean, it's disheartening, right because
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you'd like to think that, you know, we're all pursuing truth, and
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certainly academics should be. And yet what I've regrettably found in my career is
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that, you know, academics are some of the biggest ideologues around, right,
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I mean, as you know, having you know read my book,
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you know all of these parasitic ideas originated from you know, the university ecosystem.
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So do we can we be optimistic that we could turn this thing around
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elon? Or is it? Are we just screaming in the wind? Well?
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I think we have to be optimistic. I agree with my general philosophy
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is that it's better better to be or on the side of being optimistic and
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wrong than pessimistic and right. Right, you know, if you're going to
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pick one or two, I mean, you don't want to be irrational about
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it, but if yes, borderline better to freaking asum optimistic and wrong.
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So I think, And then I guess if you were to compare present day
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how many times people change their mind, it's probably much better than the past
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because people are dis exposed to wide range of information, so there's probably more
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changing of minds and changing of opinions than ever before history. It's just nonetheless
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astonishing how resilient people are in holding on to a wrong opinion. So it's
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it's it's sort of a truth versus tribalism. I think, you know.
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There's a great book that I briefly cite in the Parasitic Mind. It's by
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two French cognitive psychologists, and what they argued elon is that the human mind
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did not evolve to seek some objective truth, but rather it evolved to win
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arguments. So that's the point about tribalism, right, Because here I am
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in my sort of lofty ivory tower, thinking, hey, if I present
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you with enough information, I hopefully change your opinion. But the reality is
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you don't want to listen to me because you just want to be on the
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winning team. Yeah. A lot of times it's people will hold an opinion
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because that's what they're They see themselves as being on a particular team, like
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in a particular political party or social point of view, and they just regarded
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as the team winning the argument, as opposed to truth winning the argument.
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And that seems seems to be awolmingly the case got you can, we can,
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we can? We still go on for a while, it seems like
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the yeah, let's be going. Yeah. I made the mistake of exploring
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some some rare features which I guess a lot of people haven't then have stepped
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on some landmind, So i'll I will refrain from testing obscure features for a
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while. Got you okay? So what would be I mean? This question
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is is really stemming from my latest book, where I was talking about,
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you know, happiness and the way that I wrote this book, Elon,
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if you would have asked me three years ago after Parasitic Mind, would I
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ever dare write about write a book on happiness? I would have never said
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yes. But a lot of people kept writing to me saying, hey,
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what's your secrets? You always seem to be playful, joking around and you
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know, effrofest and so on, what's your secret to life? And so
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I decided to write a book And in the book, I basically, you
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know, I'm talking about what are some of the grand goals that shape you
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know, when I wake up in the morning and rub my hands together in
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gleeful anticipation of the day, there are certain things that shape my day to
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day. What would it be for you? What? What is it that
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makes Elon Musk wake up, rub his hands and say, oh boy,
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I'm excited to be alive. Gold Just kidding. I'm thinking of screwge mc
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duck and going for a swimming the money ben with the money even of gold.
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But but I don't get the pro They should do more. They should
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have a movie on screwgemak duck. But I'm excited by solving problems. So
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you know, if those problems that I think are important and useful, you
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know, I get excited by the progression of civilization. So if we learn
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more things, we advanced civilization become more capable, that's cool. I mean,
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we're you know, for space X, you know, it's about advancing
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rocket technology and spacecraft technology and space based communications. And then for Tesla,
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it's about advancing sustainable energy electric vehicles, the battery packs that can be paired
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with solar and wind, so sort of advancing sustainable energy economy. And then
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also advancing autonomy enabling the car drive to drive itself so people do not have
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to suffer through the tedium of driving their car all the time. And also
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cars can then have probably five times amount of utilization but they currently do,
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instead of just sitting in parking lots all day, you know. And then
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there's this neuralink which is somewhat esoteric, but long term trying to improve the
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data rate between humans and machines so you can have better achieve antsymbiosis. And
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then the short term help people who have brain spine injuries, and then boring
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companies dating tunnels to alleviate traffic, and the XAI is trying to make a
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maximumly truth seeking AI, which I think is extremely important. And you know,
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I think a lot of people like, why do you need such a
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thing? Surely the other ones are retreat seeking. I'm like, have you
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seen Gemini? It's like if you look, it can't produce a picture like
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I mean it should be people should be quite concerned about stuff what they see
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in Gemini and chat GBT like chatch GVT is better at hiding it. But
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still it's kind of good that Google over played their hand there with Gemini,
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where the you know, the diversity, I mean, they must have just
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beaten that AI with a stick so odd such that like nothing you do can
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can get it to produce a picture of a pope who's a white guy.
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What did you see? Did you see? I actually a satirical set of
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memes where I asked it what does Elon Musk look like? And it gave
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me don Lemon. This was before you had Are you serious? Well?
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I thought that was a joke. It wasn't joke. It wasn't joke.
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It was a joke. Okay. I was like, at this point,
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I can't talk for parody of reality because if you like, show a picture
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of George Washington and George Washington is a black woman, I'm like, what
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the hell? This is like actual historical figure, you know, and you
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know and and and it's and it's crazy things like where you say, like
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is it which one is worse, you know, global them, nuclear warfare
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or misgendering Caitlyn Jenner and even Caitlyn Jenna says definitely misgender me. Kitten wade
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in and said definitely misgender me. Right, that's crazy. And but the
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you know, Gemini is like saying, oh, you know, you should
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not misgender It's nuclear was better. I'm like, okay, think about that
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now. If this is an all powerful AI that somehow is capable of manipulating
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world, and whereas that we don't understand and and might ultimately be our digital
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God, yeah, be careful what you program it to this thing, because
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it might take the you know what, what seemed like sort of silly guffs
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right now. But if it's got that as as a sort of an output
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function, as utility function, it might say, Okay, you know what,
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there's too many whatever white guys in the world, let's kill half of
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them. It's like, it's not just fiction at that point, and basically
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it's it's going to be leading to some pretty dangerous and bizarre outcomes. And
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and it could it could actually, like, if it's been taught like that
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misgendering is worse than nuclear war, it may decide that to avoid misgendering,
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it should start a nuclear war like the Sour Far Away. To stop any
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future misgendering is to kill all humans, right, exact exactly, problem problem
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solved, no more misgendering. So you listed all of these incredible initiatives that
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you've done, and when you first purchased Twitter, I had produced a short
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clip where I said that, in my view, your purchase of Twitter will
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go down historically as the most important of all of your great initiatives. Do
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you feel that was that a right calculation on my part or or was I
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overstating the case. Well, you might be right, it's possible that it's
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possible that you're right. I mean, I didn't do the purchase because I
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thought it was a great way to make money, or because you know,
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I thought it would improve my quality of living, because frankly, I knew
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that I would be you know, there would be bazillion slings and arrows coming
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in my direction because the mind virus and various other sort of false tees are
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not going to take it lying down, and I could just end up being
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killed by some crazy person you know, that is an effective arm of the
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my envirus. So it really I couldn't quite put my finger on it,
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but it really felt like if like it was, there was a civilizational danger
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that unless unless one of the major online platforms broke ranks, then yeah,
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because they were all just in behaving in lockstep along with the legacy media.
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Just everyone's saying the same thing and soon as like literally it was just no
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place to actually get with the trues. It was almost impossible. So everything
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was just getting censored. Like the power of the censors of oparatus was incredible.
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Oh don't I know it I mean I always had to. I mean,
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I'm not someone who really walks on eggshells, but I knew that there
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were certain things that would get me banned. So for example, at one
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point, I don't know if you know Matt. Do you know Matt Ridley?
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You know what that is? I don't think so plussibly, Bet,
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I don't know. Matt Ridley is a popular who is also he was in
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the House of Lords in England and he's a evolutionary biologists by training. And
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at one point he came out with a book with a co op about two
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years ago where he was arguing for the lab Leaku theory for COVID, and
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his people had reached out to me and said, hey, you know,
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Matt would love to come on your show and chat about this. And so
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I responded, and I almost felt ashamed that I was saying. I said,
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look, I'm always happy to speak to anyone. I hardly shy away
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from conversations. But you should know that the minute that we actually put up
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the chat on YouTube, not only is it going to be taken down,
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probably my channel is going to be deleted. And so speaking, there was
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no point in us having that conversation until today, I feel horrible at the
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fact that I actually had to go through that calculus. Taking over X no
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longer causes me to have to make those kinds of machinations. Oh we've lost
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Elon. Okay, are you back Elon? Yeah? So suddenly helpful as
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it means you hear me, No, I assume, Oh yeah, yeah,
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I hear you. Okay, great, No, sorry, I was
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just walking around the house and I think it it dropped the connection for some
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reason. But this is definitely a minded that if if a connection has dropped
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the moment that someone rejoins, it should rejoin in the prior status unless they
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were exited by the host, unless the host kick them out, they should
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re enter in the same status as before. So in addition for us having
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a fun conversation, you're getting some technological benefits out of this. That's correct.
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I win, Yes, I got I got it to try to do
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you know, two birds with one stone or three birds with one stone?
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You know, basically get that, get the whole flock. Actually do a
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few more questions and then carefully you iron out the kinks, and then we
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could have around two whenever you think it's ready. Hopefully in the in the
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near future. Yes, sounds good. Okay, So next question, I
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often get asked this. You know, I'm housing a business school, and
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so I'm asked things like that. Strange. Yeah, So you know the
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old nature nurture question, you know, is leadership nature or nurture? So
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obviously you're you're definitely the entrepreneur in the world. Do you think much of
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your entrepreneurial bent is nature or nurture? How would you answer such a question?
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Well, I think if somebody's going to be, you know, at
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among the world's best in any field, it's going to require both. So
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you know, if you say, whether it's like basketball or in a cast,
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sports or something like that, or academics, and you're really going to
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require some combination of nature nurture, and it's some amount of luck. You
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know, there's sort of a randomness element to it. I can see the
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randomness because I've got a twins study in among my kids where I've got identical
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fraternal twins and identical twins, right, and even among the identical twins which
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really had obviously the same genetics and the same upbringing, they were living in
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the same room literally, and yet they've they have diverged in interesting ways.
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And now admittedly it didn't like not radically different, but you know, one
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pursued physics and the other one pursued computer science. Not ratically different. Right,
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The single biggest difference I was saying is one of them decided to be
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a vegetarian when he was about seven or eight and the one one of them
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didn't. And so the difference is about two inches in height, and like
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the one that was not a vegetarian is way bigger. So there's like,
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okay, you know, like quite it was a really big difference. But
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so there's there's a random selement where just luck or fate or whatever it plays
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has a bigger role than it may seem. But but you didn't need to
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be born for any particular speak to excel in any field with a good hand
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of cars. And then and then it's that talent nurtured, you know,
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through the circumstances of life. And then you know, some amount of luck
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is it has to be there too. And in fact, you know,
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I read I read a lot of sort of the superhero comics when I was
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a kid, and ultimately, you know, concluded that like what is the
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best power. The best power is luck. You can't be luck, right,
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But what what would be some of the traits that you were born with
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that? So, for example, there are some studies that show that people
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who score high on entrepreneurial proclivity tend to have have greater basal testosterone because testosterone
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correlates with risk taking, and to the extent that entrepreneurship involves an element of
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risk taking, then you could see the link. So what what what is
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part of the two that you were born with that allowed you to be as
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successful as you are? So basically, so you mustn't just have metaphorically huge
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bulls. You must have actually huge bulls. Good, I think, So
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if you just mentioned how big are your bulls physically, well decide how v
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your bulls are metaphorically as well. Indeed, indeed, that's that's called now
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blonde. But by the way, elon these nuts. By the way,
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here's the study speaking of testicles. You ready, so you're gonna like this,
17:47
Get ready, fasten your seat belt. So if you do, a
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correlation between a cross primates between the size of the of the testicles of the
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males of a species as a function of their size yeh, you know what
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it correlates with. It correlates with female promise in that species. So,
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for example, so mountain gorilla usually have a polygenist mating system, meaning one
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dominant male monopolizes sexual access to many females. Well, mountain gorillas, even
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though they're formidable in size, they actually have very small testicles on the other
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tides, no need to waste anything, yeah, exactly, whereas chimpanzees elon
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are walking testicles because they're just having sex all the time, and so there
18:34
is massive opportunity for sperm wars. And so this is the ultimate feminist theory
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because it basically argues that the size of the testes of the males of a
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species are an adaptive response to female sexual behavior in that species. Mic drop
18:51
no, wow, micro need we need a micdrop icon or something like that.
18:55
We'll added that to the emoticons here. All right, a couple more
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questions you and I I have discussed privately. I'm going to say the acronym
19:03
and then I want to explain it to the people who don't get it.
19:04
You've you've stated, I don't know if it was serious or facetiously that you'd
19:10
like to start a TITS and ass institution. Well, actually, no,
19:14
I think I can explain that. So so for a while I was I
19:17
was wondering, well, you know, Massachusetts has MI T and California has
19:22
you know, California Institute of Technology c I T or cael Tech as they
19:26
call it. But why doesn't Texas have a Texas Institute of Technology? And
19:30
then it told me, hm, T I T. Yes, that's probably
19:34
the reason. And then a friend of mine suggested adding an S for science,
19:37
and that became TITS. And then of course you put out another tweak
19:41
where you said, but of course there will be an advanced social studies faculty.
19:45
Yeah, of course, of course you gotta have that. I mean,
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now, are you being precious about that project? Well, you know,
19:53
I do believe in making jokes come true, because the Boring Company was
19:59
initially kid just a joke. That's where I said, I was going to
20:02
start a company to dig holes. It's gonna be like the Boring Company,
20:04
like Boeing, but just like the Bowing company, but the boring company and
20:08
its product will be nothing a whole. Like can you look at our product?
20:12
Our product is the absence of something. Well, that's like the Seinfeld
20:15
episode where he's pitching a pilot and the whole point of the show is nothing.
20:21
So it's exactly yeah. Okay, So let me let me ask you
20:23
one last question. This comes from the latest book on Happiness. I argue
20:29
in the book that the research overwhelmingly demonstrates that the correlation between money and happiness
20:36
only applies up to an inflection point, so once your basic necessities are met.
20:41
I think the old study was seventy five thousand. Now we need to
20:44
increase seventy five thousand because of Biden's inflation. But do you subscribe to that?
20:48
So, I mean, Elon Musk, the richest man in the world
20:52
is not necessarily happier because he can outbind me by two hundred million dollars.
20:56
No, No, definitely not. I think that's more or less correct.
21:00
In fact, I'd say there's a decrease in halfiness that occurs when the fame
21:03
level exceeds that which is useful. So like there's a certain you know,
21:08
modicum of fame which where you can now get it's easy to get a reservation
21:12
at a restaurant. That's like that's the that's like the you want that level
21:17
of fame and not anything beyond it, because because then you get to the
21:19
level of thame where you go to the restaurant and everyone's coming up to your
21:22
table, which is and people actually are very nice, very nice men and
21:26
super good. But I do often get stuck in the can I have a
21:29
selfie infinite loop and it's in the And that's my VI version of hell is
21:32
the can I have a selfie infinite loop and people are super nice, and
21:34
I want to do the selfie, but I don't want to be stuck,
21:37
and I can I have a selfie infinite loop forever. So there's you know,
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that's I say you you you're passed in terms of fame. Definitely a
21:44
threshold where things are less fun and you can't I can't just go to the
21:47
mall or go to a movie theater easily and walk around without you know,
21:51
creating a ruckus. So now do you do you when you when you just
21:55
move around in your daily life? Forgive me you please tell me if you
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can't answer this, do you have to have security around or is it just
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there? Or you do right? Well, So here's the thing that happens,
22:06
which is like it's very rare for me to get actually death threats or
22:10
anything. But it's but I say, like in the last related to actually
22:15
like no one's ever said, what about this terrible beef against you and I'm
22:18
going to kill you because of the following well thought out ideas. But I
22:23
have had two cases in the last extra the last six months. We're off
22:27
two people who are just unfortunately just very mentally ill, not not subtle.
22:32
It's not subtle, it's like and they have come to Austin to try filling
22:37
and with guns. So, like I said, in both cases that there's
22:41
no one guy thought I'd put a chip in his head, you know,
22:44
like a new reladship or something, and I'm like, which, I think
22:48
you got to consider the logic of that. Well, the chip's obviously not
22:49
working. If I'm putting a chip into Crowl and control him, you know,
22:52
clean not working, So or what do you like an upgrade and maybe
22:59
a software of day or something. So you know, so one guy they
23:03
basically just extreme schizophrenic. And another guy he's actually recently okay when he's on
23:07
his meds, but he stopped taking his meds and then it's just total detachment
23:12
from reality, you know. So so these are par schizophrenics. Yeah,
23:17
yeah, yeah, like hardcore like nuts, you know, nuts, Like
23:18
are you are you you mention Austin, Are you any regrets of having moved
23:25
out of beautiful California to Austin or are you every day happy that you've made
23:29
that decision. Austin's a great city and it's boomtown. It's the probably the
23:32
biggest boomtown in America since La in the seventies. And a ton of interesting
23:37
people keep moving here. So I have a lot of friends that have moved
23:41
here from New York and California and other parts of the world, and so
23:45
it's it's really I think it has It has all the pros and cons of
23:47
book boomtown, you know. So it's a lot of a lot of energy,
23:49
and but you know, there's a shortage of houses and resources because lots
23:53
of people moving here. So overall, I feel very good about Austin,
23:57
And like I said, there's more more interesting people moving here every day,
24:00
and but I think there's there's obviously a lot to be said for California,
24:03
but I do feel like California is unfortunately going to go through this phase where
24:07
the Golden State is gonna cook the golden geese. So it's sort of not
24:11
enough to simply make the eggs. They're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna,
24:14
they want, they want, they're gonna go cooking the geese, and
24:18
and you don't want to be there while the geese cooking is happening. Yeah,
24:19
so I think that I think at some point there will be somewhat of
24:22
a pushback, but really the state kind of has to encounter financial difficulties before
24:26
that happened, and and and this with this, hopefully at some point a
24:30
reduction in the extreme amount of regulation, the extreme amount of litigation, and
24:36
the extreme amount of taxation, which are both over the top, and all
24:38
three of those are over the top of California. So so it's you know,
24:42
it's I mean, I think if if you think about it as a
24:45
state, do you do want to maximize the number of golden eggs that that
24:48
get laid and you don't want to cook the geese. So I think California's
24:52
you know, many countries go through that phase and and California as a state
24:56
is going to go through that phase. So I just my firms is not
24:57
to be there while while the geese cocaine is happening, but I'd be visited
25:02
a lot, and it's a beautiful state with a lot of potential, and
25:04
I think ultimately, you know what the Geese cocaine has done, and there's
25:07
hopefully some reforms done in California, then you know, are potentially considered being
25:12
like dual dual state at that point. Beautiful listening, I don't want to
25:17
want to be mindful of your time. I could keep you here for another
25:18
five hours. What a delight to speak to you. Thank you so much,
25:22
and thank you for all of your public support. Although I must say,
25:26
as soon as I started seeing all of the lovely you know, tweets
25:30
that you would put out, I told my wife, oh, watch now
25:33
the number of haters that are going to come my way because Elon is showing
25:37
me love. And boy was I right, right, because people can't stand
25:41
the fact that Elon Musk is, you know, granting his imprimature. So
25:45
on the one hand, it's been a blessing, but on the other hand,
25:48
I've actually received that threats because of all of the you know, the
25:52
high profile new friends that I have, So thank you so much for your
25:56
newfound friendship. Well you're welcome. Thing I was gonna say, is that
26:00
the probability of perceiving a death threat is proportioned to the number of people who
26:03
have heard your name, right, like a first order of approximation, even
26:07
if you've done really nothing controversial. Is that you know, like like a
26:12
sort of a homicidal maniac is going to or aspiring homicidal mediac and the vast
26:18
majority are simply threaten nothing more, but aspiring homicidal maniac is going to target
26:22
you proportioned to the number of times they hear your name. So now in
26:26
my case, they will heard my name, so the more that you hear
26:27
your name. Unfortunately, that's how it goes. It's a good, good
26:32
first order of approximate. But I loved I mean a few, a few
26:34
that I don't know. I think it was a week or two ago where