Latest / Trillions / ETFs That Let You Invest in the Future

Transcript

ETFs That Let You Invest in the Future · Trillions

0:02
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. Welcome to Shrillians. I'm
0:13
Speaker 1: Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchunis.
0:18
Speaker 2: Eric.
0:19
Speaker 1: You know what we're going to talk about today is
0:21
Speaker 1: the future. How is it to invest in the future
0:24
Speaker 1: with ETFs?
0:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I immediately think of ARC.
0:28
Speaker 4: I think Kathy Wood in ARC really kind of put
0:32
Speaker 4: this trade on the map of like trying to capture
0:34
Speaker 4: trends that are five years from now. But I mean,
0:38
Speaker 4: to her credit, even though the ETF has gone up
0:41
Speaker 4: and down a lot, you know, robotaxis are actually happening.
0:45
Speaker 4: You see clips of this. Surgeries that are remote are happening.
0:50
Speaker 4: I've seen clips of this. So some of the stuff
0:53
Speaker 4: that was discussed five years ago by her is sort
0:56
Speaker 4: of coming true. And I think for investors, they like
1:00
Speaker 4: to have their S and P. Five hundred and they
1:01
Speaker 4: love that and you'll never.
1:02
Speaker 3: Get them to give it up.
1:04
Speaker 4: But they also don't want to miss out on some
1:06
Speaker 4: of the stuff that might be happening early and then
1:11
Speaker 4: speculative and tech oriented, and especially in the US, you know,
1:16
Speaker 4: we are innovating all the time and people want to
1:18
Speaker 4: capture that as best they can, and there's a void
1:22
Speaker 4: to fill for investors, and that I think is where
1:25
Speaker 4: thematic ETFs really deliver a lot of those sort of
1:28
Speaker 4: up and coming themes, sometimes even before you've even heard
1:31
Speaker 4: of the theme or the theme is even ripe.
1:34
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about a certain story today.
1:37
Speaker 1: The headline was Wall Street pitches sci fi ETFs for robots,
1:41
Speaker 1: UFOs and quantum bets. That's by Bil Donna Hirich, cross
1:46
Speaker 1: asset reporter with Bloomberg News. We will be joining us
1:49
Speaker 1: on this episode, this time on Trillions Capturing the Future
1:55
Speaker 1: with ETFs. Pil Donna, Welcome back to Trillions.
1:59
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having this.
2:00
Speaker 1: So as we told you, when you put robots, UFOs
2:03
Speaker 1: and quantum meaning quantum computer into a headline, that's like
2:07
Speaker 1: the trifecta and you immediately like, we have an automated
2:10
Speaker 1: email that goes out and invites you on trillion. So
2:12
Speaker 1: really excited to talk to you about this today. As
2:15
Speaker 1: Eric mentioned, ARC is sort of the poster child for
2:18
Speaker 1: this style of investing, which is like we're gonna put
2:21
Speaker 1: together a bunch of stuff in a portfolio that is
2:23
Speaker 1: all supposed to be five to ten years in the future,
2:27
Speaker 1: but now it's sort of like that's not even good
2:30
Speaker 1: enough anymore. We have to get super narrow. How is
2:33
Speaker 1: this manifesting in the market right, or maybe.
2:36
Speaker 2: A way to think about it is that issuers etf
2:38
Speaker 2: fishers are starting to think about like the post ARC world,
2:43
Speaker 2: like the post AI world, and they're thinking about these
2:46
Speaker 2: themes like UFOs, like they're actually is a filing.
2:49
Speaker 1: For UFO to stick with the AI think because AI
2:51
Speaker 1: was sort of like a super concentrated bet and there's
2:54
Speaker 1: like forty products or something on the market.
2:57
Speaker 2: I think there's more than slightly more than forty, and
2:59
Speaker 2: not all of them are attracting cash. Not all of
3:01
Speaker 2: them are doing you know, up performing their benchmarks are
3:05
Speaker 2: outperforming the SMP even so it's sort of like a
3:09
Speaker 2: struggle there to attract attention and assets.
3:12
Speaker 1: But it's like move on already sold space literally so
3:18
Speaker 1: or not even outer space, like humanoids is one of
3:21
Speaker 1: the ones that you talk about, what's this? What's that?
3:24
Speaker 1: Look like?
3:24
Speaker 2: Humanoids is so fun? I think. So when we're talking
3:29
Speaker 2: about humanoids, we're talking about robots that Elon Musks is
3:33
Speaker 2: hoping to put in your home to help you with
3:35
Speaker 2: your chores.
3:35
Speaker 1: Is Tesla Optimus.
3:37
Speaker 2: Robot I think he even said at one point that
3:40
Speaker 2: the robots will be expected to babysit, which.
3:43
Speaker 1: Well, you have you're a kid, like not even two
3:45
Speaker 1: years ago, would you leave a kid? Not a chance, Eric.
3:48
Speaker 1: Would you let a humanoid do some babysitting?
3:51
Speaker 3: Not yet? I mean it would take time for me
3:54
Speaker 3: to come around that.
3:54
Speaker 4: Would you let it watch your parents? It depends how
3:59
Speaker 4: what shape my parents were in. But I will say
4:03
Speaker 4: I saw this movie after Yang with Colin Ferrell, which
4:07
Speaker 4: really is I think a glimpse into living with a humanoid.
4:11
Speaker 4: It's basically like what thirty years from now, and the
4:14
Speaker 4: younger sister of the robot actually develops an emotional bond
4:19
Speaker 4: and it's a whole thing.
4:20
Speaker 3: It's a great movie.
4:21
Speaker 1: To me.
4:21
Speaker 4: It feels like the closest that we're gonna get to
4:25
Speaker 4: what will exist in that front. But it will take
4:27
Speaker 4: twenty thirty years. I think my kids will be the
4:30
Speaker 4: first to really adopt and you know, trust a robot
4:34
Speaker 4: walking around the house and stuff.
4:36
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just getting out there. Yeah, real quick.
4:39
Speaker 4: Though on the humanoid one part of this though, you
4:42
Speaker 4: said like AI and robotics, like it's still a hot theme.
4:44
Speaker 3: I mean there's like, I don't know.
4:47
Speaker 4: I think it might be the first or second biggest
4:49
Speaker 4: theme out there at this point, but there are like
4:51
Speaker 4: well over a dozen now, and so now it's like, Okay,
4:55
Speaker 4: if you put robotics in AI out now, you're probably dead.
4:59
Speaker 4: I mean unless you get lucky with performance. So humanoid
5:03
Speaker 4: to me is sort of like, Okay, let's take the
5:05
Speaker 4: AI robotics and actually like make it more narrow and
5:08
Speaker 4: see if there's a market for that. But I will
5:10
Speaker 4: say robotics and AI is such an impressive theme to
5:14
Speaker 4: me because it's gotten a third bite at the apple,
5:17
Speaker 4: let alone a second like it's hard to take in
5:20
Speaker 4: a bunch of money. Robotics was huge like ten years ago.
5:23
Speaker 4: Then it fell from grace normally that's it. The theme
5:26
Speaker 4: kind of like lives in semi oblivion after that. But
5:30
Speaker 4: then it came back and people bought it again. Then
5:32
Speaker 4: it went down, and then it came back again and
5:34
Speaker 4: people bought it, with Navidia in particular ushering in the
5:38
Speaker 4: AI concept. And so I think this is one of
5:41
Speaker 4: the most durable, long lasting themes is AI robotics. I
5:45
Speaker 4: put humanoids in there as well, and there's money there.
5:49
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot of potential still, but it's
5:51
Speaker 4: getting more and more saturated.
5:53
Speaker 1: Okay, So the humanoid products, because there's now two ETFs,
5:58
Speaker 1: what are they and how are they investing?
6:01
Speaker 2: There's one from Crane Shares and one from round Hill,
6:04
Speaker 2: and they're investing it. They have slightly different investment thesis.
6:10
Speaker 2: But the Crane Chairs one, for example, has like three
6:13
Speaker 2: different things that it's looking for, like the brain for example.
6:16
Speaker 2: Of the actual humanoids, like who's building those components and
6:20
Speaker 2: the companies behind the robotics revolution. I guess we can
6:25
Speaker 2: try to call it. I think it's there's a slight
6:28
Speaker 2: tension here in that. You know, Eric said maybe in
6:33
Speaker 2: thirty years will he'll have a robot in his home
6:36
Speaker 2: to help with chores or whatever. Issuers want you to
6:40
Speaker 2: get in on this now, expecting it to continue to
6:44
Speaker 2: grow and grow. So Morgan Stanley for one, is expecting
6:46
Speaker 2: it to be a five trillion industry by twenty thirty,
6:50
Speaker 2: which is pretty soon. You know. Elon Musk says, robots
6:54
Speaker 2: will be in your home sometime soon. Maybe they'll be
6:57
Speaker 2: in Tesla factories supposedly over in the next six months
7:01
Speaker 2: or so. These things definitely exist. The robots are helping
7:05
Speaker 2: run different factories in Asia and other places, and so
7:09
Speaker 2: it's here. It's just a matter of how much will
7:12
Speaker 2: it grow and whether or not you want to be
7:14
Speaker 2: in on the ground level, which is basically now.
7:16
Speaker 1: So the Crane Shares when you mentioned the ticker is
7:18
Speaker 1: Coyd ko i D that came out in early June.
7:22
Speaker 1: There's some companies that I've kind of never heard of,
7:25
Speaker 1: jab El Inc, Linus, Rare Earths Limited, Amphenol Corp, Malexis.
7:31
Speaker 1: And then you've got the navideos and the Tesla's in
7:33
Speaker 1: the world, Like so many of these things are like,
7:36
Speaker 1: you know, they're really trying to identify what a supply
7:38
Speaker 1: chain for this stuff looks like, how do you get
7:41
Speaker 1: exposure to it? So what the new one is human
7:46
Speaker 1: hu m n from from Round Hill, from Roundhill, So
7:49
Speaker 1: what's the approach that Roundho's.
7:51
Speaker 2: Taking round Hills is, Well, they're both actively managed. So
7:56
Speaker 2: the roundhoer one is is focused solely on companies designing
8:00
Speaker 2: and building humanoids. It's actively managed. It just launched, so
8:05
Speaker 2: we'll see how those end up performing. I think actually
8:09
Speaker 2: there's very little overlap between some of these companies and
8:12
Speaker 2: some already existing robotics and other AI ETFs, which I
8:17
Speaker 2: think is impressive. Like I spoke with Dave Nadig, who
8:21
Speaker 2: we know is an ETF industry veteran, and even he said,
8:24
Speaker 2: you know, it's pretty impressive that there's very little overlap
8:27
Speaker 2: between some of these because you would have thought, maybe
8:30
Speaker 2: on the outset, that the investible universe would have been small.
8:34
Speaker 2: But there's quite a number of companies that you can
8:37
Speaker 2: add into these ETFs that are internationally based, for example,
8:40
Speaker 2: that are working on some of these things, whether it's
8:42
Speaker 2: rare earth or chips or something in the supply chain.
8:46
Speaker 1: It's worth mentioning that some China humanoids are already in effect,
8:51
Speaker 1: and like the YouTube videos are insane for those Eric,
8:55
Speaker 1: what do you how many humanoid ETFs can the market sustain?
9:01
Speaker 4: Well, we got to see how popular these are. Probably
9:04
Speaker 4: if I had to ballpark it three.
9:06
Speaker 3: But that's assuming. Yeah.
9:10
Speaker 4: I mean, one thing about the two ETFs that have launched,
9:13
Speaker 4: Coid and human is that you got to look at
9:16
Speaker 4: the holdings. You opened up Koid Jol and you said,
9:18
Speaker 4: I don't recognize any of these names.
9:20
Speaker 1: I'm just the Yeah.
9:23
Speaker 4: I love that reaction when I open a theme ETF.
9:27
Speaker 4: To me, that's what I want to see. I don't
9:29
Speaker 4: want to recognize the names, and KOID looks like it's
9:32
Speaker 4: mostly equal weighted, so you take all the names. That's why,
9:36
Speaker 4: like Navidia is like just in there with all these
9:39
Speaker 4: other names you never heard of.
9:41
Speaker 3: It's like a face in the crowd.
9:42
Speaker 4: The reason that's good, in my opinion, for these themes
9:45
Speaker 4: is that you want bigger bets on the smaller pure
9:48
Speaker 4: plays because they tend to get bought by the Navidias
9:51
Speaker 4: of the world, and you get a ton of money
9:53
Speaker 4: on that acquisition, a ton of return. So COID to
9:56
Speaker 4: me would be more probably more volatile, but you get
10:00
Speaker 4: more m and a pop potentially and then human If
10:02
Speaker 4: you look at the holdings, it's Tesla and Navidia top
10:04
Speaker 4: two make up twenty percent of the portfolio right there. Well,
10:07
Speaker 4: a lot of people already own those two companies in
10:10
Speaker 4: other funds, so you can have a lot of overlap.
10:13
Speaker 4: So that's something to consider when you're investing in these
10:17
Speaker 4: But if you have Tesla Navidia at the top, it
10:20
Speaker 4: will mean probably less volatility, so it'll be a slightly
10:24
Speaker 4: calmer ride probably, But that's just these are the things
10:27
Speaker 4: you have to weigh when you're buying a thematic ETF.
10:29
Speaker 3: But I do like that there's two choices.
10:32
Speaker 4: One's a little more market cap weighted and you know,
10:35
Speaker 4: popular seeming, and the other one's a little more far
10:37
Speaker 4: out there with equal weighting, and then people can decide
10:40
Speaker 4: what's better best for them.
10:48
Speaker 1: Okay, we've talked about the humanoid space. What other spaces
10:51
Speaker 1: do we want to talk about? With Loldana.
10:53
Speaker 2: Quantum is definitely a hot one. There's a pretty big
10:57
Speaker 2: quantum etfqtum. So far this year it's already gathered more
11:04
Speaker 2: than six hundred million in inflows. So it's definitely something
11:07
Speaker 2: that I think people are just awakening too much, much
11:10
Speaker 2: more because the ETF has been around for a couple
11:12
Speaker 2: of years already, but so far this year it's already
11:15
Speaker 2: on pace for a record year of inflows.
11:18
Speaker 1: Eric, how does that stack up for sort of a
11:20
Speaker 1: cutting edge ETF that's you know, a pure thematic play.
11:25
Speaker 3: It's great.
11:26
Speaker 4: I mean, Quantum the ETF is a total hit. It's
11:30
Speaker 4: the Defiance's number one best selling ETF. And you know
11:35
Speaker 4: what's interesting about quantum the ETF also is it is
11:39
Speaker 4: also equal weight. It might not be totally sometimes they
11:42
Speaker 4: do just thing called modified equal weight.
11:43
Speaker 3: But either way, it's.
11:44
Speaker 4: More like KOID in that you're getting a lot of
11:47
Speaker 4: more exposure to some of the more smaller peer plays,
11:50
Speaker 4: and it's got looks like one point five billion. There's
11:54
Speaker 4: a couple other ones on the market and they don't
11:55
Speaker 4: really have much, so the one et from Defiance is
11:59
Speaker 4: just basically like raked in the lion's share of assets here.
12:03
Speaker 4: But another interesting thing on the quantum world, Joel, is
12:06
Speaker 4: that if you remember the episode we did a little
12:11
Speaker 4: while back on all of these hot sauce two x
12:14
Speaker 4: stock ETFs, Oh, there's this huge trend in putting two
12:18
Speaker 4: x on top of small quantum computing.
12:20
Speaker 3: Stocks and their hits.
12:24
Speaker 4: So there's the quantum theme, but there's also a huge
12:27
Speaker 4: interest in really gambling on these juggernaut small quantum stocks.
12:33
Speaker 4: One of them went up one hundred percent in one day,
12:36
Speaker 4: so the stock went up fifty percent, the ETF went
12:38
Speaker 4: up one hundred and that's the most pop and ETF
12:41
Speaker 4: has ever had in a day.
12:42
Speaker 3: So there wow.
12:43
Speaker 4: And they're they're they're volatile, but that's part of that.
12:46
Speaker 4: That's a feature, not a bug for the degend crowd
12:48
Speaker 4: that trades these. I think the quantum theme would be
12:51
Speaker 4: for a more like normalized long term play because you're diversifying,
12:55
Speaker 4: you're actually taking volatively off the table. So again with ETFs,
12:59
Speaker 4: there's something for buddy, as.
13:01
Speaker 1: Long as you're talking about super future stuff because quantum
13:04
Speaker 1: is like, I mean, super speculative, like it's out there.
13:08
Speaker 1: Maybe sometimes what the real world applications look like big
13:12
Speaker 1: time tbd Uh. Can we talk about UFOs because I
13:16
Speaker 1: love cheesse that it's like, you got to come back
13:18
Speaker 1: to it.
13:19
Speaker 2: I know, I love this.
13:19
Speaker 1: So what's going on with UFOs?
13:22
Speaker 2: Matt Tuttle filed for of Tuttle Capital Management filed for
13:26
Speaker 2: UFO based ETF.
13:28
Speaker 1: So it's UFOD yes.
13:30
Speaker 2: And it's pure conjecture at this point, just to be
13:34
Speaker 2: very clear. But the idea is that there is potentially
13:38
Speaker 2: some sort of alien tech that maybe revealed in filings
13:46
Speaker 2: in you know, if the government releases records that type
13:50
Speaker 2: of thing, where you might discover that there's something tied
13:53
Speaker 2: to aliens there with R and D companies for example,
13:56
Speaker 2: or defense contractors or those types of companies. And so
13:59
Speaker 2: this tf would purportedly invest in those types of firms.
14:04
Speaker 1: I think Eric exhaled right when we pitched this. You
14:07
Speaker 1: want to go ahead and take the micro in talk
14:08
Speaker 1: about it.
14:09
Speaker 2: Did I get it right?
14:10
Speaker 1: Eric?
14:11
Speaker 4: Well, it's there's actually even more of an level here.
14:15
Speaker 4: It's that the new administration is going to open up
14:19
Speaker 4: the Area fifty one. Right, They're going to be real
14:23
Speaker 4: liberal about letting all of this into the public domain,
14:26
Speaker 4: sort of like the JFK, fils whatever. So they're going
14:28
Speaker 4: to open up Area fifty one and all the research there,
14:31
Speaker 4: and they think they're going to talk about the UFOs
14:34
Speaker 4: they have there, and they're gonna like let the tech
14:37
Speaker 4: where the I guess the architecture of these spaceships, and
14:43
Speaker 4: that the big tech companies are going to steal the
14:46
Speaker 4: alien tech and make money off of like applying the
14:50
Speaker 4: alien tech and this ETS can attract all that.
14:54
Speaker 1: Have you read this filing? Have you read this via?
14:57
Speaker 3: I read it?
14:58
Speaker 4: I talked to Tuttle too before you laugh, and like,
15:02
Speaker 4: you know, change the channel or whatever. Tuttle just hit
15:07
Speaker 4: a home run with the europe Defense ETF. Remember this
15:11
Speaker 4: is on our episode last time, which is it has
15:14
Speaker 4: a billion dollars. He was the only one who foresaw this.
15:16
Speaker 4: He launched it in October before the election, so he
15:20
Speaker 4: kind of foresaw the election and then that pull out
15:24
Speaker 4: from NATO or at least some threat of it, and
15:27
Speaker 4: that increase spending from Europe, and boom, this theme has
15:31
Speaker 4: taken off and he's the only one in this market.
15:34
Speaker 2: Now.
15:34
Speaker 4: I'm not saying this saw the same thing, but Tuttle
15:37
Speaker 4: definitely is one of the probably the most experimental issueer
15:41
Speaker 4: out there.
15:42
Speaker 3: But sometimes it works.
15:43
Speaker 4: And again, if it does work, it works big because
15:47
Speaker 4: he's had the market to himself for months now too.
15:49
Speaker 4: In Europe, they've got like a dozen of European defense
15:52
Speaker 4: here's just one still and he has all the market.
15:56
Speaker 1: Okay, what happens if this doesn't work out?
16:00
Speaker 2: Nothing, he'll just we just close it and we're never going.
16:03
Speaker 1: To talk about it again. Okay, it hasn't launched yet,
16:07
Speaker 1: so Eric, what has to happen for this to launch?
16:11
Speaker 4: Well, you know, the SEC may give him a little
16:14
Speaker 4: pushback on the name and whether it's appropriate.
16:17
Speaker 3: Member.
16:17
Speaker 4: Every now and then, the SEC has issues with names.
16:19
Speaker 4: They didn't want blockchain in the name when the blockchain
16:22
Speaker 4: technology was early, so people had to make up different names.
16:24
Speaker 4: They didn't want cannabis and marijuana in names, so they
16:27
Speaker 4: had to work around that. And also, by the way,
16:30
Speaker 4: Tuttle just filed for a government grift ETF, which is
16:34
Speaker 4: a which is one that's trying to make money off
16:37
Speaker 4: of like insider trading in Congress, and so that is
16:41
Speaker 4: another one.
16:41
Speaker 3: Will they let that name through?
16:43
Speaker 4: Considering the SEC is part of the government anyway, Tuttle
16:46
Speaker 4: is always pushing the bounds. I'm sure when his filings
16:49
Speaker 4: come through, it's like a whole thing inside the SEC.
16:52
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but oh, here's this guy again.
16:54
Speaker 4: Legally, I think as long as the ETF does what
16:57
Speaker 4: it says is going to do, they have to let
16:59
Speaker 4: it out.
16:59
Speaker 1: And does it say anything about the kind of holdings
17:02
Speaker 1: that would aspire to have.
17:04
Speaker 2: I think it's defense contractors R and D was mentioned
17:07
Speaker 2: definitely in the filing. I just love the idea of
17:10
Speaker 2: US finding about finding out about alien tech.
17:14
Speaker 1: We might talk about this one again, We'll see, I
17:17
Speaker 1: really hope. Okay, so is the perfect segue into thematic
17:23
Speaker 1: doesn't always work out, right, Like, let's talk about the metaverse,
17:27
Speaker 1: that whole thing that Mark Zuckerberg get Facebook then meta
17:32
Speaker 1: try to basically own and there were there were meta ETFs,
17:37
Speaker 1: and those we don't talk about anymore, right, so what's
17:40
Speaker 1: the risk of really speculative, niche thematic ETFs.
17:48
Speaker 2: I think we're the first people to utter the words
17:51
Speaker 2: metaverse in like three years, which just goes to show
17:56
Speaker 2: how much that fizzled out. Like I remember a couple
17:59
Speaker 2: of years ago when when Facebook changed its name and
18:01
Speaker 2: everybody it's all about the metaverse. But it was highly
18:04
Speaker 2: speculative and you really needed people's buy in, and it
18:07
Speaker 2: just didn't happen, and metaverse tied ETFs ended up closing,
18:12
Speaker 2: So that fizzled pretty quickly. Nobody talks about it, and
18:16
Speaker 2: nobody mentioned amazing.
18:17
Speaker 1: How quickly meta just pivoted to aire right too. Sorry.
18:22
Speaker 4: I will say that the metaverse ETF is outperforming the
18:26
Speaker 4: S and P since launching, so it has been a
18:28
Speaker 4: pretty good but it's kind of accidental. I mean, Apple's
18:32
Speaker 4: the second biggest holding. It has Ethereum and Solana in it,
18:35
Speaker 4: so it's got a crypto kick. Meta has had a
18:37
Speaker 4: good run. I mean it's a lot of mag seven
18:40
Speaker 4: plus Crypto, so and which has done pane AI. Sometimes
18:44
Speaker 4: a theme goes up even if the theme sucks, which
18:47
Speaker 4: tells you again, let's go back to the human ETF.
18:51
Speaker 4: If you hold mostly mag Seven's thoughts, it doesn't really
18:54
Speaker 4: matter what the hell.
18:55
Speaker 3: You call it.
18:57
Speaker 4: It's gonna move like the Mag seven And so this
18:59
Speaker 4: to me is like kind of lucky. But by the way,
19:02
Speaker 4: we had I think, do we have round hill on
19:05
Speaker 4: or we just were speculating that they used to have
19:08
Speaker 4: the ticker meta and they sold it to Mark Zuckerberg
19:11
Speaker 4: and they for an amount that was undisclosed. So it
19:14
Speaker 4: doesn't even matter if this ctf's a hit. They totally
19:16
Speaker 4: got paid already. But I agree with you, the metaverse
19:20
Speaker 4: just went away. Man, it's crazy almost like ESG, not
19:23
Speaker 4: as bad, but close.
19:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, what other thematic plays are on either of your radars?
19:31
Speaker 2: There's mega trends, which Lazard is taking advantage of. They
19:34
Speaker 2: launched a couple of ETFs in April. THMZ is one
19:39
Speaker 2: of them. It's a mega trends ETF. So again, think
19:41
Speaker 2: about like the way that they described it to me
19:44
Speaker 2: is it's not stuff that's on page one of the newspapers,
19:46
Speaker 2: stuff that's like on page thirty two, section C for example,
19:50
Speaker 2: that's slowly making its way to the front. So again
19:53
Speaker 2: you're getting in on the ground level, you're getting in early.
19:56
Speaker 2: That type of thing.
19:57
Speaker 1: The stuff you haven't heard of, Yeah, exactly yet. Is
20:00
Speaker 1: that just trying to capture everything across sort of this
20:04
Speaker 1: kind of thematic universe.
20:06
Speaker 2: No, they also break it down into a couple of
20:07
Speaker 2: different themes that they like, like software, apps and agents,
20:12
Speaker 2: data and AI that type of thing. Future Health is
20:15
Speaker 2: one of them. But THCHMZ is up twenty percent since
20:19
Speaker 2: it's launched, so over the past two months, up twenty percent,
20:21
Speaker 2: not bad, Eric, any on your radar.
20:25
Speaker 4: One that I'm actually we're looking at because it was
20:27
Speaker 4: part of the May launches was the third Joal Monopoly ETF,
20:32
Speaker 4: which basically invest in companies that like have somewhat of
20:35
Speaker 4: a monopoly on their industry, sort of like the wide
20:38
Speaker 4: mode ETF.
20:39
Speaker 3: It's not that novel, but I just.
20:43
Speaker 4: You know, there is the first monopoly ETF has fifty million,
20:46
Speaker 4: the second one has nothing, and so here comes a
20:48
Speaker 4: third one. And so this is where this becomes tough,
20:52
Speaker 4: and the third one has a higher cost. I mean,
20:54
Speaker 4: unless you have an extreme breakout, it can be tough.
20:57
Speaker 4: So I think with thematic ETF, you do have to
21:00
Speaker 4: be in it to win it. So you want to try,
21:02
Speaker 4: and I hate to tell people not to try. But
21:05
Speaker 4: I think at some point, you know, these these ETFs
21:09
Speaker 4: are it's like we have a phrase on the team
21:11
Speaker 4: sometimes when we see a filing, good luck with that.
21:14
Speaker 4: Like when we see some legacy mutual fun company come
21:17
Speaker 4: over with like an eighty basis point large cat blend
21:20
Speaker 4: etf like good luck with that, Like like where have
21:23
Speaker 4: you been it's like nineteen eighty five anymore? Okay, So
21:27
Speaker 4: we want to have we want to actually have a
21:29
Speaker 4: monthly note called good luck with that.
21:30
Speaker 3: But we're say it's a little too dark.
21:31
Speaker 1: I think I think there's an upcoming episode that we
21:33
Speaker 1: can call good luck with that.
21:34
Speaker 4: And with good luck with that, it should be it
21:38
Speaker 4: should be a recurring episode. But so that's one where
21:41
Speaker 4: I just caught my attention, which is how big the
21:43
Speaker 4: rush is.
21:44
Speaker 3: But here's the thing.
21:45
Speaker 4: If you look at all of the launches coming out,
21:48
Speaker 4: the part of the problem is, like the regular stuff
21:51
Speaker 4: Vanilla has been had, the vanilla space is over, like
21:56
Speaker 4: Vanguard black Rock dominated. Even if you had success, there
22:00
Speaker 4: have to be charging zero fees anyway. So part of
22:03
Speaker 4: what's happening is if you're in the asset management space
22:05
Speaker 4: and you're trying to get some organic flows, you kind
22:09
Speaker 4: of have to try in a couple different areas. You know,
22:12
Speaker 4: buffers Hot Sauce and thematics. You know in thematics probably
22:16
Speaker 4: are one of the more sober versions of hot Sauce
22:18
Speaker 4: because it is diversified. And if you can catch early
22:22
Speaker 4: a theme, you're good because you can charge well over
22:25
Speaker 4: fifty basis points in this category and you get a
22:28
Speaker 4: color billion on like eighty basis points and you're in business.
22:31
Speaker 4: So there's enough hits that it's almost a lottery ticket
22:35
Speaker 4: system for the issuers as well as the investors. But again,
22:39
Speaker 4: I think it's just tougher and tougher the later you are,
22:43
Speaker 4: which is why we see so many themes coming.
22:46
Speaker 3: Out before they're ripe.
22:47
Speaker 4: I would argue the humanoid theme might not be totally
22:50
Speaker 4: ripe enough. I mean, it's really far out there, but
22:53
Speaker 4: they're going to try, and as the more pure plays
22:56
Speaker 4: come in, the etf will become more pureish. But they
23:00
Speaker 4: may put beta filler in there at first just to
23:02
Speaker 4: try to get out early.
23:03
Speaker 1: And I had that first movie and advantage and kind
23:05
Speaker 1: of like totally plant the flag. Okay, one more thematic, Eric,
23:17
Speaker 1: what do you got?
23:19
Speaker 3: Yeah?
23:19
Speaker 4: So remember it must have been four years ago, right
23:24
Speaker 4: around COVID early COVID.
23:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like pandemic came back. Yeah.
23:27
Speaker 4: I came back from the inside ETF's conference, which is
23:30
Speaker 4: now called Exchange, and I was in a new analyst
23:34
Speaker 4: pitch competition or new ETF pitch competition between analysts, and
23:38
Speaker 4: I pitched uranium.
23:39
Speaker 1: It.
23:40
Speaker 3: Honestly, it had like ten million.
23:42
Speaker 4: Dollars in assets this how early I was Joel and
23:45
Speaker 4: one new one launched and I said, there's something going
23:47
Speaker 4: on here. I think uranium could be good for green energy.
23:50
Speaker 4: They now have close to ten billion in assets. So
23:55
Speaker 4: within four years this theme that was like in oblivion
23:59
Speaker 4: for you years and years. Uh, just the world turned
24:04
Speaker 4: and uranium is part of nuclear has become more and
24:07
Speaker 4: more accepted. It's used to power AI now. So sometimes
24:11
Speaker 4: you just have to just hang around with your line
24:13
Speaker 4: in the water and wait for the world to catch
24:15
Speaker 4: up to your theme, and boom when it happens and
24:19
Speaker 4: everybody's like, oh, this is obvious.
24:21
Speaker 1: You're like Tarpin tarpin On, we got a big one.
24:24
Speaker 3: I will say.
24:25
Speaker 4: R A was around for about eight years before this.
24:27
Speaker 4: Then you are in. You aren m listed. That's what
24:30
Speaker 4: caught my attention, and that one now has one point
24:32
Speaker 4: seven billion. But r A was around for like ten
24:35
Speaker 4: years and nobody cared.
24:36
Speaker 3: It sucked. It was down, and I give it credit.
24:39
Speaker 3: It could have closed. Sometimes we see ets close right
24:42
Speaker 3: before their number comes up.
24:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about that.
24:44
Speaker 4: But it hung in there and now it's three point
24:46
Speaker 4: eight billion, So sometimes you could be ten years early.
24:49
Speaker 1: Joel ten just rope a dope.
24:52
Speaker 2: Eric just wanted us to know that he had.
24:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really good because you know what, you know,
24:58
Speaker 3: it's a sin.
25:00
Speaker 4: I came in like third or fourth place and mind
25:04
Speaker 4: crushed everyone in terms of flows and popularity and just
25:08
Speaker 4: being ahead of there.
25:10
Speaker 1: And none of them are here to defend any of
25:12
Speaker 1: their but you know.
25:14
Speaker 2: Their pigs were probably like.
25:17
Speaker 4: And at the Academy wards and you look and you're like,
25:19
Speaker 4: I can't believe so and so didn't win the Oscar
25:22
Speaker 4: for that role giving himself on Oscar.
25:25
Speaker 1: Now, all right, on that note, we're gonna leave it.
25:30
Speaker 2: He missed out, but he's still bitter.
25:33
Speaker 1: But really everybody knows I deserve this. Bil Donna, keep
25:37
Speaker 1: up the great work and we look forward to more
25:38
Speaker 1: of your headlines. Thanks for having me, Thanks for listening
25:46
Speaker 1: to trillions until next time. You can find us on
25:48
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
25:53
Speaker 1: wherever else you like to listen. I'd love to hear
25:55
Speaker 1: from you. Hit us up on social I'm at Joe
25:57
Speaker 1: Weber Show, He's at Eric Balchinus. Billions is produced by
26:00
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson. Brendan Newman is our executive producer. Sage Bauman
26:05
Speaker 1: is the head of Bloomberg Podcast