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Art and Ocean Science: How Creativity Reveals the Deep Sea's Hidden Stories · How To Protect The Ocean

• 1:00:00
  What happens when a
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  sculptor, a theater director,
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  and a science program
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  coordinator come together
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  to explore the deep ocean?
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  In this episode, we're
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  surfacing the hidden connections
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  between art, memory, and the sea,
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  and revealing how creative
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  minds are helping scientists
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  unlock new ways to protect the ocean.
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  That's what we're gonna
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  talk about on this episode
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  of the "How to
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  Protect the Ocean" podcast.
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  Let's start the show.
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  Hey everybody, welcome back
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  to another exciting episode
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  of the "How to
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  Protect the Ocean" podcast.
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  I'm your host, Andrew
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  Lewin, and this is the podcast
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  where you find out what's
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  happening with the ocean,
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  how you can speak up for the ocean,
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  and what you can do to
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  live for a better ocean
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  by taking action.
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  And today's episode
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  is part of our monthly
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  Surfacing Secrets series,
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  where we highlight the
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  powerful intersection
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  of art and ocean science,
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  and how creativity can
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  open new ways of seeing,
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  understanding, and
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  protecting the blue planet.
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  In this conversation,
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  we're joined by Parvan Hasani,
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  a sculptor and interdisciplinary artist,
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  originally from Iran, Dennis D. Gupa,
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  a Filipino theater
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  director and climate storyteller,
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  and Dwight Owens, the
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  coordinator behind the
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  ONC Art Science Fellowship Program at
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  Ocean Networks Canada.
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  Together, we explore how
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  their work connects memory,
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  migration, resilience,
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  and deep sea mysteries,
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  and how artists and
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  scientists are learning to speak
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  a common language, all in
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  the service of understanding
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  and protecting the ocean.
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  This is gonna be a great interview,
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  and I can't wait for you to hear it.
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  So here's the
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  interview with Parvan, Hasani,
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  and Dwight, enjoy, and
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  I'll talk to you after.
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  Hey Dwight, hey Parvan, hey Dennis,
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  welcome to the How to
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  Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  Are you ready to talk about art
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  intersecting with ocean science?
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  Oh yeah, you're ready.
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  All right.
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  Very excited.
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  Yeah.
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  Good, good, good.
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  I'm so excited too.
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  This is gonna be a lot of
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  fun because a lot of times,
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  you know, on this podcast,
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  we talk about conservation,
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  we talk about science,
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  and we get into some
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  of the technical stuff,
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  and we look at campaigns
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  and how well they work.
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  And we do get into arts, but not enough,
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  because I feel like art is
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  just a way of expression,
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  which we're gonna talk about today,
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  in the different ways of
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  expressing through art.
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  And it's a good way to
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  communicate, like science,
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  climate change, ocean
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  issues, oceans, positivity,
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  and optimism through
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  this medium to an audience
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  that's ready to just kind of
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  take it up in various ways.
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  So I'm very, very excited to
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  be able to talk about that.
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  We're gonna be talking
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  about Ocean Networks Canada's
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  involvement in building this program.
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  And we're gonna talk
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  about some of the fellows.
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  We're gonna talk to some of the fellows,
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  Parvin and Dennis, a
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  past fellow in this program,
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  and how it's allowed
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  them to grow as an artist,
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  especially intersecting with scientists
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  and being able to speak
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  to scientists and interact.
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  I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.
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  So this is gonna be
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  very excited for this.
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  But before we get into all of that,
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  I'll just kind of let us know
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  who you are and what you do.
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  We'll start with
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  Parvin, then we'll go Dennis,
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  and then we'll go Dwight.
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  Hi, I'm Parvin Hassan.
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  I'm Iranian interdisciplinary artist
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  and the current art science fellow in
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  Ocean Network Canada.
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  Perfect. And Dennis?
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  Dennis Gupa, I am a theater director
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  and assistant professor at the
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  Department of Theater and Film
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  at the University of
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  Winnipeg in Manitoba.
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  Perfect. And Dwight.
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  Hi, I'm Dwight Owens.
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  I'm a long time employee
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  of Ocean Networks Canada
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  in various roles and
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  currently serving as the manager
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  of impact and capacity development.
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  Awesome. Now, Dwight, in the past,
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  like when we've talked in the past,
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  you described yourself as not an artist
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  and not a scientist,
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  but clearly you're a
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  connector, you connect.
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  So how did your background in languages
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  and instructional
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  design shape your approach
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  to building the ONC
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  arts and science program?
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  Well, hmm, you know, you
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  mentioned I'm a connector
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  and I did take the strengths based,
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  whatever that test is,
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  looking at your strengths
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  and connection was one of
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  the top strengths for me.
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  So there we go.
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  That's really what I like to
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  do is bring people together
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  and, you know, try and
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  see how different strengths
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  of different people
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  can even become greater
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  through that synergy.
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  And yeah, so I was working
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  for Ocean Networks Canada.
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  I was working with Kim
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  Juniper, our past senior scientist,
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  and he invited me to work
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  with him to develop this artist
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  in residence program,
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  which we're now calling
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  our Art Science Fellowship.
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  So it was an invitation and I've learned
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  that it's a good thing to say yes.
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  I think it's great.
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  And now, you know, having like a
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  visionary come to you and be like,
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  OK, I want to build
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  this fellowship program.
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  Did you have any kind of art background?
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  And if not, like what was it like to
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  build a program out like this?
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  You know, my my arts
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  background is very informal.
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  I took some classes in high school and
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  university and I dabble
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  around in various things,
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  but nothing really formal and.
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  But we have guidance because we have
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  connection with the faculty of fine arts
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  at the University of Victoria.
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  So that there are, you know,
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  faculty that will help us, the
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  the dean of the faculty of fine arts is
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  will be quite
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  involved and very supportive.
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  So we can tap into their network and they
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  can really guide us on how to work
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  with artists, with students, grad
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  students and, you know,
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  help them develop in this role.
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  It's kind of an interesting thought
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  process of, you know, you have this
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  very technical
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  organizations in Ocean Networks Canada,
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  gathering data, learning how to at the
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  time, you know, it was you know, you've
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  been with them for a long time.
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  But as they gathering more and more data,
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  putting more instruments in the water,
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  being able to build relationships with
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  with the communities
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  in all the various different ways, you
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  know, obviously integrating with
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  University of Victoria
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  and the different programs.
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  Do you was it hard for the organization
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  to, you know, build a
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  program like an arts program,
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  like an arts fellowship, knowing like
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  there's such a there's such a like, you
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  know, there's there's a lot of engineers,
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  a lot of, you know, communication with a
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  lot of technical people there.
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  Was it difficult for that crossover to
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  get into the arts for the
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  for Ocean Networks Canada?
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  You know, I think I think
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  that's a still in process.
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  You know, we have leadership, Kate Moran
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  and and Daniela Luke, who strongly
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  support this program.
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  And, you know, when I talk to staff
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  members at O and C, they're supportive.
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  They like the idea, but it's, you know,
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  it's not high on their list.
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  Right. So, but, you know, by the same
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  token, if I arrange a meeting, if I ask
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  for something, they're happy to help.
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  Yeah. And, you know, just this summer,
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  Parvin wanted to have access to discarded
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  tech from the deep ocean.
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  And so we contacted a fellow at the
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  Marine Technology Center
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  and he was very happy to help.
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  And yeah, found some cable for part of
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  it. It turned out to
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  be not the right color.
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  But so people are they are responsive.
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  They are interested. Yeah. But it's just
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  they feel like it's
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  outside of their right.
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  You know, they're their duty list and
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  bringing the arts like
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  really into the way we work.
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  That's we're not there yet.
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  Yeah. You know, it's funny.
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  You're growing up as a scientist or like
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  being educated as a scientist and always
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  having that thought of like, let's just,
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  you know, here's the problem.
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  Let's use math to solve it. Let's prove
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  it and find the evidence and then see
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  what it does and interpret
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  it like a very technical way.
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  But I was recently reminded that science
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  is very is very creative in itself
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  because you have to be creative in how,
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  you know, you are going to interact with
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  the ocean when you
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  when you do your study.
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  You know, you might be using technical
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  tools to be able to gather the data, but
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  you still have to be able
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  to work within that medium.
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  You have to adapt quickly, but you have
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  to be creative in how you are going to
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  collect that data to make sure that it's
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  not only the right data, but you're
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  getting all of it back.
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  And that takes some creative practice,
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  probably not in the same way as someone
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  with the background in fine arts, but it
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  still allows us to be to be creative.
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  And I had a guest recently on Beyond Jaws
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  podcast who was worried about it not
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  being more creative because, you know,
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  she had some learning disabilities and
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  being creative was really a good part to
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  help her express, you
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  know, and understand things.
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  And when her advisor said, no, you could
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  actually be very creative in how you
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  design your study, it
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  really opened up her mind to it.
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  So I think a lot of scientists and
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  engineers and so forth in the STEM area
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  need to open up her minds a little bit to
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  understand that, yeah, no, we are
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  creative because you've never seen a more
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  creative person than an engineer or a
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  scientist out at sea.
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  You know, when something goes wrong or an
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  instrument is not working and be able to
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  MacGyver something together and they
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  don't piece things together.
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  So that's that's how I see it as
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  creative. So I think there's a lot more
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  of that bridge than we than we initially
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  think. And I think the more we build
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  relationships and interact with with with
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  artists and understand how they express,
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  you know, like the science or the message
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  that we're trying to put out, I think you
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  can get a lot of synergies within that.
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  So so I love that that aspect. Do I want
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  you to just tell me about. Oh, sorry, I
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  didn't mean to interrupt you. Were you gonna say something?
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  I was just gonna say another thing, which
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  is that, you know, it's it's really about
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  curiosity. Yes. And, you know, that is
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  key for the scientists, but also for the
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  for the artist. Yes. They're trying to
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  understand and they're trying to
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  understand how we relate to things and
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  how we can really
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  understand express and communicate.
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  So curiosity is a shared language.
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  Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, tell us
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  about what this the fellowship is. What
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  it what what does it entail? How do
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  artists become part of the reply to be
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  part of this fellowship? How does it all
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  work? Yeah, we've, Parvin is
• 1:10:54
  our sixth Art Science Fellow.
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  And Dennis was our second. So we're still
• 1:11:01
  pretty young on this. But we recruit, we
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  offer this fellowship to grad students at
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  the University of Victoria. And it's a
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  four month fellowship program, we provide
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  a stipend, we bring them into our
• 1:11:19
  organization, and we invite them to be
• 1:11:23
  embedded with one of our teams, come together and do a fellowship.
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  We invite them to join other teams, come
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  to the regular staff meetings, join other
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  meetings, learn about the science, learn
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  about the technology, go visit our Marine
• 1:11:34
  Technology Center, just kind of get
• 1:11:39
  embedded and involved and let the the
• 1:11:43
  organizational activities seep into their
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  their outlook and their view.
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  Then they're free to create something,
• 1:11:56
  work with others or work on their own and
• 1:11:58
  develop and develop their own practice.
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  So they may spend time at ONC or in a
• 1:12:07
  studio or going back and forth. Parvin's
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  been doing that. And when it was Dennis's
• 1:12:14
  turn, he worked remote
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  because it was COVID.
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  Yeah. So it's just trying to bring them
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  in to help them understand. And also, to
• 1:12:24
  bring that kind of, you know, arts point
• 1:12:29
  of view to the science groups, they may
• 1:12:33
  be able to ask questions in a different
• 1:12:36
  way and think about things in new ways.
• 1:12:39
  And so we've had some fascinating
• 1:12:40
  conversations with deep CEO geophysicists
• 1:12:44
  talking about the, you know, the networks
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  and the memories of hydrothermal vents.
• 1:12:49
  We'll get into this later. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Unreal. Unreal. That's awesome.
• 1:12:54
  Now, Dennis, when you you were the second
• 1:12:58
  person to come through the fellowship,
• 1:13:01
  but you come from a background of
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  theater. What is it for you about theater
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  that allows you to express you like
• 1:13:11
  express the message that you're trying to
• 1:13:12
  get it across, whether it's
• 1:13:13
  science or any other message?
• 1:13:15
  Why did you choose theater
• 1:13:16
  as that as your art form?
• 1:13:20
  Well, part of it is the history of my
• 1:13:24
  embodied expression. I was earlier
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  introduced to theater and probably if I
• 1:13:30
  was introduced to creative writing and I
• 1:13:33
  have mentors in filmmaking, I
• 1:13:36
  would also go in that field.
• 1:13:38
  But early on, I saw a pantomime group in
• 1:13:43
  our village and I was taken by the power
• 1:13:46
  of real commitment to express beyond oral
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  language because Philippines is really
• 1:13:55
  it's a traditional country
• 1:14:00
  where we rely on oral expression.
• 1:14:04
  And I saw that performance and it's
• 1:14:06
  devoid of language and they're almost
• 1:14:08
  dancing. It's an international group as
• 1:14:11
  well. So and eventually I realized that
• 1:14:16
  this is something that I really would
• 1:14:18
  like to develop in me this
• 1:14:20
  kind of craft of expressivity.
• 1:14:24
  And then several years after I saw a
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  filmmaker also went to our community and
• 1:14:31
  now is a national artist for film Ismael
• 1:14:34
  Bernal and I saw the leadership of this
• 1:14:36
  director commanding the community to be
• 1:14:39
  quiet because here in the Philippines
• 1:14:41
  when there's a film making sessions or
• 1:14:44
  film shooting, people
• 1:14:46
  would gather and watch as well.
• 1:14:48
  So it's all like the community and I and
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  this community is really busy and danced
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  and crowded. So when he commanded them to
• 1:14:58
  be quiet, they are there. They became
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  quiet. And I said, maybe I'm attracted
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  also in this kind of
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  leadership in creative.
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  Amazing. Now, growing up in the
• 1:15:13
  Philippines, you grow up with a lot of
• 1:15:17
  storms. You know, we talked earlier
• 1:15:20
  before we started recording, you
• 1:15:21
  mentioned how, you know, typhoons is like
• 1:15:24
  a, you know, it's expected, you know,
• 1:15:26
  sometimes, hopefully not too
• 1:15:28
  severe, but it's it's expected.
• 1:15:29
  I think you mentioned there's like
• 1:15:31
  sometimes 20 in a season and the rest of
• 1:15:34
  us were like, holy cow, I can't believe,
• 1:15:36
  you know, that's a that's a normal thing,
• 1:15:37
  but that's a normal thing growing up and
• 1:15:39
  some are more devastating than others.
• 1:15:42
  Can you talk about how typhoon Yolanda
• 1:15:46
  changed your understanding, you know, of
• 1:15:50
  your role as an artist within your
• 1:15:53
  village and country?
• 1:15:56
  Yeah, so I there's this anthropologist,
• 1:16:00
  feminist anthropologist and geographer
• 1:16:02
  Kia, Kia Okambogoa, and she said that
• 1:16:06
  disasters are like weathers. It's an
• 1:16:08
  everyday thing in the Philippines.
• 1:16:11
  And you have no other choice but to be
• 1:16:14
  confronted by the violence of the
• 1:16:18
  weathers, extreme weathers,
• 1:16:21
  events in the Philippines.
• 1:16:22
  And Filipinos have probably tried to be
• 1:16:27
  improvisational with it.
• 1:16:29
  But at the same time, there's also this
• 1:16:31
  kind of activist consciousness that we
• 1:16:34
  don't want it anymore. Like we have to
• 1:16:37
  recreate an imagination that these
• 1:16:41
  disasters are real devastating.
• 1:16:44
  It costs a lot of, you know, resources
• 1:16:48
  and lives. So we have to refuse it. And I
• 1:16:52
  think that I'm already in this kind of
• 1:16:55
  philosophy that my art has to contribute
• 1:16:59
  in, you know, advocating for a more
• 1:17:03
  justice, social justice
• 1:17:08
  when we think about typhoons.
• 1:17:10
  Yeah, interesting. Yeah, that's really
• 1:17:13
  interesting. Now, you describe before,
• 1:17:18
  when we spoke your your master's journey,
• 1:17:20
  you know, as a search for answers, you
• 1:17:25
  know, looking at answers and the question
• 1:17:28
  I have for you is like, what did you
• 1:17:29
  discover about that intersection of
• 1:17:32
  climate change and
• 1:17:33
  performance art along the way?
• 1:17:35
  Like, how did you see
• 1:17:36
  that coming together?
• 1:17:37
  Yeah, I, you know, I always tell my
• 1:17:41
  students that my migration to Canada is
• 1:17:43
  also a migration of search for my own
• 1:17:47
  craft because I wanted to go deep with my
• 1:17:49
  craft and I was an international student,
• 1:17:53
  but it was also confronting the truth
• 1:17:55
  about climate justice and climate
• 1:17:59
  injustice in the Philippines.
• 1:17:59
  Because when I arrived in Canada at the
• 1:18:03
  University of British Columbia, that was
• 1:18:06
  September and November there was a big
• 1:18:09
  typhoon, super typhoon, Yolande, as you
• 1:18:11
  mentioned. My supervisor, one of my
• 1:18:13
  teachers said, come to my office, I'll
• 1:18:16
  show you something,
• 1:18:18
  I'll tell you something.
• 1:18:18
  And she said that there was a big
• 1:18:20
  typhoon. And I said, don't worry, because
• 1:18:22
  we always have that we have phones of
• 1:18:24
  typhoons. And she showed me photos,
• 1:18:27
  images online of the
• 1:18:29
  devastation of super typhoon.
• 1:18:31
  I was quite shocked because I was from
• 1:18:35
  the Philippines and never really imagined
• 1:18:38
  the kind of magnitude and the violence of
• 1:18:41
  that kind of typhoon. And it started to
• 1:18:46
  dawn on me that the relevance, the
• 1:18:50
  extreme relevance of art, what is this
• 1:18:53
  art about when there's so much
• 1:18:55
  suffering in the Philippines?
• 1:18:57
  The Philippines and they were talking
• 1:18:58
  about climate change and there was kind
• 1:19:01
  of a disconnect to me, like, what is
• 1:19:03
  climate change? I've been hearing it as a
• 1:19:06
  concept, as a theory probably.
• 1:19:09
  And I was trying to connect with the
• 1:19:10
  global warming because that was the idea
• 1:19:14
  that I grew up with during my youth in
• 1:19:19
  the Philippines, global
• 1:19:20
  warming, global warming.
• 1:19:22
  And I finished it. I continued my MFA and
• 1:19:28
  then I went ahead with my PhD. So I went
• 1:19:33
  to University of Victoria because I
• 1:19:35
  really wanted to interrogate my artistic
• 1:19:38
  practice and artistic method and the
• 1:19:41
  philosophy behind and the philosophy
• 1:19:43
  behind art and its relevance.
• 1:19:46
  And then, yeah, and I started writing
• 1:19:49
  about climate change and applied theater
• 1:19:52
  and indigenous ecological knowledge. And
• 1:19:56
  I realized that, you know, engaging with
• 1:19:59
  art, you should just, we
• 1:20:02
  should not stop with aesthetics.
• 1:20:03
  We also have to think about the ethics
• 1:20:06
  behind it and also the politics that you
• 1:20:10
  can, you know, shape and forge and the
• 1:20:14
  voice and the agency that you could
• 1:20:16
  discover and extend it to the people and
• 1:20:20
  the communities that
• 1:20:21
  you would like to work on.
• 1:20:23
  And, you know, eventually I met Dwight
• 1:20:26
  and ONC and had to discover the great
• 1:20:31
  potential of collaboration within this
• 1:20:33
  artistic embodiment and inquiry.
• 1:20:38
  Wonderful. Can you, before we were going
• 1:20:40
  to ask Parvin on her, a bit of a bit of
• 1:20:43
  her background and how she got to ONC.
• 1:20:46
  Before we do, can you talk about one of
• 1:20:49
  your theater projects before meeting,
• 1:20:51
  before coming to ONC?
• 1:20:52
  And what that looked like right before
• 1:20:54
  and what that looked like. Had it already
• 1:20:56
  had you already been on your journey
• 1:20:58
  towards like with climate change or were
• 1:21:01
  you still like discovering that part?
• 1:21:03
  Yeah, I think it's also an ongoing
• 1:21:05
  process for me before coming here in the
• 1:21:10
  Philippines, doing my visiting research
• 1:21:12
  fellowship at the University of the
• 1:21:14
  Philippines, Los Panios.
• 1:21:15
  I taught a spring course at my home
• 1:21:19
  department, University of Winnipeg,
• 1:21:21
  Applied Theater and Climate Change. So I
• 1:21:24
  have this collaboration with faculty
• 1:21:28
  members from different different faculty
• 1:21:31
  departments of our university and to
• 1:21:35
  introduce our students, theater students
• 1:21:40
  and education students and also
• 1:21:42
  environmental students.
• 1:21:43
  It's a very interdisciplinary work. So we
• 1:21:47
  have this faculty members coming to my
• 1:21:49
  class, engaging the students to think
• 1:21:52
  about the climate change
• 1:21:53
  and the science behind it.
• 1:21:55
  And then we recreate the kind of
• 1:21:57
  experience of listening to the data and
• 1:22:00
  receiving the data into more performative
• 1:22:02
  way. So that was my
• 1:22:04
  before before coming here.
• 1:22:07
  I had this very strong energy and
• 1:22:10
  exciting energy from the students and
• 1:22:12
  faculty members. Now I'm doing this kind
• 1:22:16
  of extended Gossip with Wales project
• 1:22:19
  that I created, co-created with artists
• 1:22:23
  and ONC and the university.
• 1:22:26
  You're so interested to fully stage it
• 1:22:30
  because I think Dwight said that I was at
• 1:22:32
  the I did my residency when there was a
• 1:22:35
  pandemic. Right. Little
• 1:22:37
  pandemic, little global pandemic.
• 1:22:40
  And the initial project was to stage a
• 1:22:44
  performance with immigrants community,
• 1:22:46
  Filipino immigrants community in
• 1:22:48
  Victoria. There was a pandemic. So we
• 1:22:51
  migrated into Zoom and one of the former
• 1:22:57
  deans of the University of the
• 1:22:59
  Philippines saw it and said, let's bring
• 1:23:02
  this to the Philippines and recreate.
• 1:23:06
  And now we're having a new iteration of
• 1:23:10
  our gossip with whales. The four songs
• 1:23:13
  are still there. We added one more
• 1:23:15
  composition and there's poetry now,
• 1:23:20
  there's choreography.
• 1:23:21
  There are five scientists who are coming
• 1:23:26
  together, weaving in and out to the story
• 1:23:29
  to be part of the storytelling of this
• 1:23:34
  new production. Yeah, very nice. That is
• 1:23:38
  so cool. We're going to dive into that in
• 1:23:39
  just a second. But I just wanted to kind
• 1:23:41
  of ask part of a few questions.
• 1:23:43
  You mentioned you were born near the sea
• 1:23:47
  before moving to Tehran to do your
• 1:23:49
  university career. How did growing up in
• 1:23:52
  your water shape your artistic identity
• 1:23:54
  before you even knew
• 1:23:56
  you want to be a sculptor?
• 1:23:57
  Well, growing up near the sea, I think it
• 1:24:02
  created a lot of curiosity about the
• 1:24:06
  unknown, both because sea, ocean, all the
• 1:24:10
  time it was kind of mysterious space for
• 1:24:13
  me. And as as I started working with the
• 1:24:18
  art from early age, I all the time
• 1:24:21
  imagine in three
• 1:24:23
  dimensional aspect of everything.
• 1:24:26
  So sea and ocean all the time, it was
• 1:24:31
  kind of mysterious place for me. Yeah, I
• 1:24:34
  can imagine that's a kind of a cool thing
• 1:24:36
  because there's so many just different
• 1:24:37
  things underneath the water, very
• 1:24:40
  different various shapes and branching
• 1:24:42
  out and you know, corals and so forth
• 1:24:45
  that have all these different shapes.
• 1:24:45
  I think it would be it would be pretty
• 1:24:47
  cool to Stephen have that in your
• 1:24:49
  imagination. Now you've described before
• 1:24:53
  like thinking through your hands as a
• 1:24:55
  central, essential to your early
• 1:24:57
  sculptural practice. Can you explain how
• 1:25:02
  that connection still
• 1:25:03
  influences your work today?
• 1:25:06
  Yeah, I started working with materials
• 1:25:09
  when I was told and it was so surprising
• 1:25:14
  for me working with materials I spent
• 1:25:16
  time working with my hands because all
• 1:25:20
  the time I think material surprised me
• 1:25:24
  during the work because sometimes it it
• 1:25:27
  it it bonds and you can change it.
• 1:25:31
  And sometimes it holds you and it gives
• 1:25:35
  you a new idea about the work. And later
• 1:25:38
  when I studied bachelor of sculpture at
• 1:25:42
  the University of Tehran, I learned more
• 1:25:45
  how the sculptures can be related to
• 1:25:47
  creating the space, how you can activate
• 1:25:50
  the space and how you can create the
• 1:25:53
  space that the people and the viewers can
• 1:25:55
  come and look around and walk around your
• 1:25:58
  work and get the feeling about
• 1:26:00
  this three
• 1:26:02
  dimensional aspect of your work.
• 1:26:05
  Very cool, very cool. At some point, you
• 1:26:09
  were introduced to bio art during your
• 1:26:12
  undergraduate studies. What was it about
• 1:26:15
  that intersection of biology and art that
• 1:26:18
  first captured your attention and
• 1:26:20
  thinking like this is going to be
• 1:26:22
  something that I really wanted to.
• 1:26:23
  Bio art was really interesting for me
• 1:26:27
  because it gave me a new insight about
• 1:26:31
  the data, the new data that can that they
• 1:26:34
  could use in my work, especially about
• 1:26:38
  the hidden world in biology, which was
• 1:26:42
  surprising for me when I learned about
• 1:26:44
  the biology and art and how they can
• 1:26:47
  engage and how knowing about the
• 1:26:49
  scientific data and
• 1:26:50
  how can I show them as a
• 1:26:52
  specifically in the sculpture because my
• 1:26:57
  bachelor's work was about creating larger
• 1:27:01
  sculpture of neurons in the brain. So it
• 1:27:04
  gave me new forms. It gave me a chance to
• 1:27:08
  bring new kind of form
• 1:27:09
  in the sculpture as well.
• 1:27:12
  Very nice. Very nice.
• 1:27:15
  You've explored the brains neural
• 1:27:17
  networks before in your art and later
• 1:27:19
  compared the brain to the ocean. So what
• 1:27:23
  parallels do you see between like the
• 1:27:25
  memory and human mind and the mysteries
• 1:27:28
  of say like the deep sea.
• 1:27:31
  The first time that I started thinking
• 1:27:34
  about the team of memory in the brain, I
• 1:27:37
  didn't know that what aspect of it is
• 1:27:40
  more interesting for me. I just try to
• 1:27:43
  learn more about the function of memory
• 1:27:45
  in the brain, how it can be possible to
• 1:27:49
  store the memory in the brain.
• 1:27:52
  And when I learned about neural network
• 1:27:56
  and how all of the synapses and how and
• 1:28:00
  how all of those connections work
• 1:28:01
  together to create what we call memory,
• 1:28:06
  something clicked for me that everything
• 1:28:09
  is about the connection.
• 1:28:11
  And when I thought about later when I
• 1:28:15
  thought about the ocean, I think I
• 1:28:18
  brought that perspective with myself
• 1:28:20
  because the network was really
• 1:28:23
  interesting for me. The connection was
• 1:28:25
  really interesting for me.
• 1:28:26
  And then I thought about the ocean as a
• 1:28:31
  heat in landscape and I saw I thought
• 1:28:35
  that the brain and the ocean, all both of
• 1:28:37
  them, there are complex system and they
• 1:28:40
  have the heat involved. So I tried to
• 1:28:43
  kind of discover those heat and bolts and
• 1:28:46
  make some connection between these.
• 1:28:49
  Love it. That's awesome.
• 1:28:52
  What were you I asked Dennis the same
• 1:28:54
  thing. Can you give us an example of a
• 1:28:56
  sculpture that you did right before
• 1:28:58
  working with ONC and then a sculpture you
• 1:29:01
  did after the I know you're just
• 1:29:03
  completing your fellowship. So I don't
• 1:29:04
  know if you've already created or
• 1:29:06
  finished creating those sculptures.
• 1:29:08
  But can you talk a little bit of what the
• 1:29:10
  sculptures look like beforehand and as
• 1:29:12
  compared to like during your fellowship.
• 1:29:15
  So my for my master degree at the
• 1:29:19
  University of Victoria, I focused on the
• 1:29:22
  idea of the water management system in
• 1:29:25
  Iran. The form of those water management
• 1:29:28
  system. It was thousands of shafts and
• 1:29:30
  tunnels, which I all of them inspired me
• 1:29:35
  to creating kind of infrastructures
• 1:29:38
  related to to the memory.
• 1:29:41
  So all of those forms led me to think
• 1:29:46
  about how can I make the place for the
• 1:29:50
  memory that place for for the memory. It
• 1:29:54
  was kind of tunnel shape that can be
• 1:29:58
  create a space for flowing the memory
• 1:30:03
  because for me, memory is
• 1:30:05
  not kind of the fixings.
• 1:30:07
  It's it can be changed. It can be
• 1:30:10
  constructed during the time.
• 1:30:13
  Love it. I'm going to go to back to
• 1:30:17
  Dennis and and when you first when you
• 1:30:20
  were doing your fellowship, I know it was
• 1:30:23
  over covid. So not it wasn't all in in in
• 1:30:25
  person. But when you had those initial
• 1:30:28
  meetings with scientists at ONC, what was
• 1:30:32
  your first thoughts like in terms of
• 1:30:34
  hearing what they had to say and like
• 1:30:36
  what type of questions were you.
• 1:30:37
  I was really excited because it was yeah,
• 1:30:42
  it was covered. We need connections and I
• 1:30:45
  knew it's going to be really an another
• 1:30:49
  school for me. I always wanted to you
• 1:30:54
  know collaboration for me is also
• 1:30:55
  interdisciplinary because it excites me
• 1:30:58
  to just be in this unknown space.
• 1:31:00
  The no ability of theater making is so
• 1:31:03
  important for me because I don't want to
• 1:31:05
  I want to build on the work that I'm
• 1:31:08
  doing, but I also would like to explore
• 1:31:11
  something that I have not been able to
• 1:31:16
  explore in the previous work.
• 1:31:18
  Right. So I so raising questions,
• 1:31:21
  critical questions based on the previous
• 1:31:23
  work is a is an important method for me.
• 1:31:28
  So I I was asking about, yeah,
• 1:31:33
  representation, like because, you know,
• 1:31:35
  when when we think of
• 1:31:37
  art science, science, art,
• 1:31:40
  hybridity, it's always there's also power
• 1:31:43
  in that right because science has a lot
• 1:31:46
  of resources, the scientists they have
• 1:31:50
  because of the research they're doing.
• 1:31:52
  There's so much of value in terms of
• 1:31:54
  materiality. And when we
• 1:31:56
  engage with our science
• 1:31:58
  and we're always working with our
• 1:31:58
  students, interfacing, it seems that
• 1:32:01
  there's always we always run into
• 1:32:04
  bringing arts to communicate science
• 1:32:08
  themes. I wanted to theorize that I
• 1:32:12
  wanted to really know that when we come
• 1:32:15
  together, what's the next theory that we
• 1:32:18
  can engage in terms of knowledge
• 1:32:22
  production in terms of advocacy work.
• 1:32:24
  So there is this kind of hierarchy needs
• 1:32:28
  to be also challenged, right, when we are
• 1:32:31
  hybridizing. So it's not a it's not a
• 1:32:34
  transdisciplinary work that I have this
• 1:32:37
  question and I'm going to use a certain
• 1:32:42
  field to answer my question
• 1:32:45
  through my original field.
• 1:32:47
  It's two disciplines coming together,
• 1:32:51
  blurring it and really navigating the in
• 1:32:54
  between this of this two world. So, yeah,
• 1:33:00
  the questions around representation that
• 1:33:01
  it's not just about communicating the
• 1:33:04
  themes of science but also communicating
• 1:33:06
  the themes of art and really
• 1:33:10
  propelling both powers so that you have
• 1:33:14
  one connected power.
• 1:33:17
  How did you find the people you met with
• 1:33:19
  for moments like the scientists and
• 1:33:21
  engineers and so forth? How did you find
• 1:33:23
  they reacted to that type of idea and
• 1:33:27
  theory of these two fields, you know,
• 1:33:30
  merging together and
• 1:33:31
  creating something new?
• 1:33:33
  You know, I am so generously gifted by
• 1:33:38
  the intelligences and the expertise of
• 1:33:42
  these people because I know that when we
• 1:33:45
  engage with interdisciplinary
• 1:33:46
  work, it's it's a scary thing.
• 1:33:49
  Right. Oh, and see, I remember, oh, and
• 1:33:53
  see, is always responsive and always
• 1:33:56
  giving to our lost nest. I'm also kind of
• 1:34:04
  lost. Right. And there are certain gaps
• 1:34:09
  that I really don't
• 1:34:10
  know what I'm doing here.
• 1:34:11
  But you know, the scientists because they
• 1:34:14
  they're very solid with their practice
• 1:34:16
  and they're willing to, you know, share
• 1:34:20
  their method also. And I realize, oh,
• 1:34:23
  wow, we somehow I think carbon also share
• 1:34:26
  this that there's we share we overlap
• 1:34:31
  with the same method because it's
• 1:35:02
  it's so I have received the greatest
• 1:35:06
  generosity at that time during pandemic
• 1:35:10
  from the scientists and artists. Yeah,
• 1:35:13
  worked. Do you incorporate some of the
• 1:35:16
  reactions and some of the feelings that
• 1:35:18
  the scientists had in your work? Like,
• 1:35:20
  did you notice like, you know, whether
• 1:35:22
  it's like excitement or curiosity, did
• 1:35:26
  you incorporate that into?
• 1:35:27
  Yeah, yes, you know what I realize during
• 1:35:33
  that residency is the lesson of humility,
• 1:35:38
  both artists and scientists are you are
• 1:35:43
  confronted with big questions. And maybe
• 1:35:47
  you can answer them like climate change,
• 1:35:51
  like how do we really confront this?
• 1:35:53
  Like, one of the concepts that we talked
• 1:35:57
  about during the time was this kind of
• 1:35:59
  concept of we could probably get problems
• 1:36:02
  like it keeps on eating. It's very
• 1:36:04
  complex problems. And I kept on studying
• 1:36:10
  this wicked problems because I realized
• 1:36:12
  that I also have to
• 1:36:15
  understand this, this concept.
• 1:36:18
  And I realized that, oh, I think that
• 1:36:21
  because this concept is also about
• 1:36:23
  managing you can only manage because it
• 1:36:26
  keeps on repeating. Now I realize that,
• 1:36:28
  hey, we also have to really transform
• 1:36:31
  this weekend problems. We should not stop
• 1:36:34
  receiving that this is wicked. We have to
• 1:36:37
  transform it. Right. So this is my
• 1:36:39
  current understanding with it. But part
• 1:36:43
  of this desire enthusiasm to solve this
• 1:36:47
  wicked problem is that we have to transform this.
• 1:36:47
  We can problem is great humility. That's
• 1:36:50
  why we have to collaborate because I
• 1:36:52
  can't answer it. Yeah.
• 1:36:55
  Dwight, as Dennis is speaking, I see this
• 1:36:58
  excitement on your face and this nodding
• 1:37:00
  as as Dennis was doing his fellowship.
• 1:37:04
  You know, what were your feelings around
• 1:37:07
  the work that was the outcomes of the
• 1:37:10
  work that that were that were presented
• 1:37:12
  in front of you and in front of like his
• 1:37:14
  audience and so forth?
• 1:37:16
  I would say it was all very mysterious to
• 1:37:20
  me because Dennis would he would go off
• 1:37:26
  and then he'd come back. He said, oh,
• 1:37:28
  well, we have a string ensemble that
• 1:37:31
  we're working with or we have a poet.
• 1:37:35
  Actually, it started with a poet who is
• 1:37:38
  who is writing to Nagas.
• 1:37:40
  And I had no idea what to Nagas were and
• 1:37:43
  I thought, OK, that's interesting. And
• 1:37:47
  later I actually tried to write some to
• 1:37:50
  Nagas because I was inspired about this.
• 1:37:52
  Nice. And so then the to Nagas somehow he
• 1:37:56
  had this mysterious process with the the
• 1:38:03
  the composer and the lyricist.
• 1:38:09
  And the I don't know all the people he
• 1:38:13
  was working with. And and to me, it was
• 1:38:15
  very mysterious because we were all
• 1:38:17
  separated. You know, I was working from
• 1:38:19
  home. And in fact, the whole gossip was
• 1:38:22
  with Wales. Everyone was in their own
• 1:38:25
  homes. Right. Right. And it all got
• 1:38:27
  combined together. So and I would say I
• 1:38:30
  feel that same sense of mysterious
• 1:38:34
  curiosity about parvents work.
• 1:38:37
  Yeah, we'll have our weekly meetings and
• 1:38:40
  I'll say, oh, part of it. Is there
• 1:38:42
  something you want to share? And then
• 1:38:44
  she'll pop up on the screen these latest
• 1:38:47
  things and talk about these experiments
• 1:38:49
  that she's done and these new materials.
• 1:38:52
  And it's a very, very
• 1:38:54
  kind of like an alchemist.
• 1:38:58
  And it's a very, very, very interesting
• 1:38:59
  process. Right. There's it. It's within
• 1:39:02
  the curiosity within the mystery of these
• 1:39:04
  layers. It's so cool. Part of it when you
• 1:39:08
  when when do I is talking about you
• 1:39:10
  experimenting with new materials from a
• 1:39:14
  sculptor's point of view when you're
• 1:39:16
  trying to, you know, look at new
• 1:39:19
  concepts, just like, you know, looking at
• 1:39:21
  memory through water.
• 1:39:27
  And I think that's interesting with a new
• 1:39:28
  material and where does that curiosity
• 1:39:31
  come from? It's like, oh, I'm going to
• 1:39:32
  work with this type of metal or I'm going
• 1:39:34
  to work with this type of maybe it's a
• 1:39:37
  plastic of some sort or, you know, a
• 1:39:39
  cable, like we mentioned earlier. What's
• 1:39:41
  it like for you to really start thinking
• 1:39:45
  about using a new material to get a
• 1:39:48
  specific message like, you
• 1:39:50
  know, water networks across?
• 1:39:53
  There's very interesting aspect of
• 1:39:55
  working with material, especially as a
• 1:39:58
  person who make who create a sculpture is
• 1:40:02
  that I'm not a stick
• 1:40:03
  to specific material.
• 1:40:04
  I try to get the new idea and spend time
• 1:40:09
  with the idea and realize that each
• 1:40:12
  material can be feet and can be engaging
• 1:40:17
  with that idea to release
• 1:40:20
  what's behind the concept.
• 1:40:23
  So what I did during my residency was
• 1:40:26
  that I spent time with the meetings with
• 1:40:30
  the scientists and with all of the
• 1:40:33
  samples, footages, images, and I try to
• 1:40:37
  collect all of those data and spend time
• 1:40:40
  indulge with them and then select which
• 1:40:43
  part can be which which material can be a
• 1:40:47
  fit with that concept.
• 1:40:49
  I really enjoyed specifically with my
• 1:40:53
  residency because I think it was the
• 1:40:55
  first time that I really found the exact
• 1:41:00
  material with the data that I collected.
• 1:41:05
  I learned a lot. I learned two new
• 1:41:07
  techniques during my residency. It was my
• 1:41:09
  first time to work with them. And most of
• 1:41:13
  I think I really enjoy.
• 1:41:14
  Yeah, is there, you know, it's kind of
• 1:41:18
  funny, like when I when I think about
• 1:41:20
  what it's like when I'm trying to make it
• 1:41:24
  analogous to to like a scientist, it's
• 1:41:26
  like when you're first learning a
• 1:41:27
  statistical program, where you're trying
• 1:41:29
  to learn how to, you know, put out a new
• 1:41:32
  instrument or learn
• 1:41:33
  about that new instrument.
• 1:41:34
  There's always a learning curve, right?
• 1:41:37
  When you when you learn and sometimes
• 1:41:39
  that learning curve is very frustrating,
• 1:41:41
  you know, depending on your patients of
• 1:41:43
  the individual. I know for me learning
• 1:41:45
  are in graduate school. It was like the
• 1:41:47
  statistics like in this program was very
• 1:41:50
  challenging to a lot
• 1:41:51
  of us in grad school.
• 1:41:53
  Is there a challenge? Like, are there
• 1:41:55
  those challenges when you're using a new
• 1:41:58
  material in, you know, because like
• 1:42:00
  there's such a like I can imagine and
• 1:42:02
  then this is me coming from looking from
• 1:42:04
  outside in and you can
• 1:42:05
  correct me if I'm wrong.
• 1:42:07
  But like when you're when you're
• 1:42:08
  envisioning using a new material and then
• 1:42:11
  trying to figure out like this is how I
• 1:42:14
  want it to be displayed. But then you
• 1:42:16
  realize maybe it can't be displayed
• 1:42:17
  because it's not bending or saying how do
• 1:42:21
  you overcome those challenges?
• 1:42:24
  Actually, it was really hard for me,
• 1:42:26
  especially, especially for one of the
• 1:42:28
  techniques about the electric it was a
• 1:42:33
  bit scientific and I haven't worked with
• 1:42:36
  electricity or something like this
• 1:42:38
  before. I had more than 10 maybe, maybe
• 1:42:44
  about two weeks, a trial and error to fix
• 1:42:48
  some of the problems, because it was my
• 1:42:51
  first time to learn about the new
• 1:42:52
  technology. I had to get the tools and
• 1:42:55
  work with the electricity and it was
• 1:42:58
  challenging, but I knew that I have to
• 1:43:00
  fix it because I wanted to make this
• 1:43:03
  work. It took time, but I could solve it.
• 1:43:06
  Yeah, no, that's amazing. Now during your
• 1:43:09
  fellowship, you shifted from focusing on
• 1:43:12
  human memory to exploring non human
• 1:43:14
  memory in the deep ocean. So how did the
• 1:43:18
  hydrothermal vents inspire the shift?
• 1:43:20
  I remember that for the first time that I
• 1:43:26
  saw the video of hydrothermal vent, I
• 1:43:29
  felt like they're like bodily archive of
• 1:43:35
  living system. So I think that they are
• 1:43:40
  alive because they rise. They breathe the
• 1:43:45
  minerals to the ocean. They collapse and
• 1:43:48
  they change over time. And it's not that they're alive.
• 1:43:50
  It's the powerful aspect of those
• 1:43:53
  structures. They are like chimneys, but I
• 1:43:56
  think they're alive. So the perspiration
• 1:44:00
  of the minerals, it creates very tall
• 1:44:03
  chimneys. So the layering of those
• 1:44:07
  minerals, it's really related to the
• 1:44:10
  memory. It's not
• 1:44:11
  separate maybe of our memory.
• 1:44:14
  Maybe we cannot see the chimneys in our
• 1:44:17
  brain, but we can see it in the ocean.
• 1:44:21
  Wow. Wow. That's so cool. I guess like
• 1:44:27
  when you look at the fellowship, like
• 1:44:30
  what piece of the fellowship or like the
• 1:44:32
  project of the fellowship did you create
• 1:44:35
  as part of it? Like what did you create
• 1:44:37
  and how does it affect your
• 1:44:39
  evolution of your thinking?
• 1:44:44
  I think it's starting the structures of
• 1:44:50
  those chimneys really helped me to think
• 1:44:53
  about how can I push the idea of just
• 1:44:59
  making the objects, right? Especially
• 1:45:02
  when I had a series of meeting with the
• 1:45:06
  scientists and we spoke about the vents,
• 1:45:09
  not just as a
• 1:45:11
  specific point or just solid.
• 1:45:41
  Or separate chimneys.
• 1:45:42
  So it was a very specific moment of my
• 1:45:46
  project because it helped me to create
• 1:45:50
  several fragmented pieces. And then I'm
• 1:45:56
  going to create a vast, a large
• 1:46:00
  installation of these pieces that later
• 1:46:03
  you can come and see, or I can send the
• 1:46:05
  pictures for the people who cannot see.
• 1:46:09
  That's terrific. Yeah, that'd be that'd
• 1:46:11
  be awesome. Dwight, as we kind of like
• 1:46:15
  look at this, as part of it is finishing
• 1:46:18
  up her fellowship and every starts
• 1:46:20
  exciting, every finishing is exciting.
• 1:46:23
  What does like ONC hope that the fellows
• 1:46:28
  for this fellowship get out of the
• 1:46:30
  program when they leave the fellowship?
• 1:46:36
  Well, you know, in addition to learning
• 1:46:41
  about the science and learning about how
• 1:46:43
  science organizations work and you know,
• 1:46:47
  science, tech and, you know, developing
• 1:46:51
  some of those connections, some of those
• 1:46:54
  relationships with people
• 1:46:55
  within our organization.
• 1:46:58
  I'm also really hope for our fellows to
• 1:47:03
  get involved in the scholarship part. So
• 1:47:06
  Dennis was talking a
• 1:47:07
  little bit about this.
• 1:47:10
  You know, what can what can art and
• 1:47:13
  science working together come up with in
• 1:47:18
  terms of, you know, new ways of thinking
• 1:47:21
  about problems, maybe new ways of
• 1:47:23
  thinking about wicked problems, maybe new
• 1:47:27
  perspectives and what can this synergy
• 1:47:31
  bring that would that will benefit not
• 1:47:33
  only the science, not only the art, but
• 1:47:35
  will benefit our society.
• 1:47:37
  So I'm always encouraging our fellows to
• 1:47:40
  get involved in the in the research and
• 1:47:44
  in thinking about the theories and in
• 1:47:47
  maybe writing something, co authoring
• 1:47:51
  something and maybe doing some some
• 1:47:55
  experiments, some research projects,
• 1:47:58
  getting embedded with a big science
• 1:48:01
  project in the future.
• 1:48:01
  That would be just awesome. So yeah, I'm
• 1:48:05
  seeing this not as a, you know, not as a
• 1:48:09
  one and done. But yeah, this is the start
• 1:48:12
  of who knows what could grow into within
• 1:48:16
  the, you know, the personal path and
• 1:48:19
  practice for each artist.
• 1:48:20
  Are there I know it's hard to say now,
• 1:48:24
  but are there opportunities for future
• 1:48:27
  collaborations with artists who have come
• 1:48:29
  through the fellowship program?
• 1:48:31
  Well, for sure. And so Dennis and I,
• 1:48:35
  Dennis has invited me to be part of at
• 1:48:38
  least meet with the people as they create
• 1:48:41
  this new production in the Philippines.
• 1:48:45
  So if we can figure out the time zones.
• 1:48:47
  Yeah, and part of in part of his
• 1:48:53
  fellowship is coming to an end, but she
• 1:48:55
  will be early career co chair of a
• 1:49:01
  session on art and science at the ocean
• 1:49:03
  sciences meeting in February in Glasgow.
• 1:49:07
  Oh, fantastic. I hope she'll be there.
• 1:49:09
  Yeah, I expect she'll be there to help
• 1:49:12
  share that session to present her work.
• 1:49:16
  And you know, to get involved with what's
• 1:49:21
  to come. There's so many so many
• 1:49:23
  wonderful opportunities that we can
• 1:49:27
  create together. So yeah, absolutely,
• 1:49:30
  absolutely. Now, Dennis, as you know,
• 1:49:33
  you're hearing this, obviously, parven
• 1:49:35
  has got some some plans after as the
• 1:49:38
  fellowships is ending and you know,
• 1:49:38
  you're hearing this, you know, the fellowships is ending and some ideas. Do
• 1:49:41
  you find that the fellowship has really
• 1:49:43
  expanded your career in terms of the
• 1:49:48
  thinking that you've been able to do the
• 1:49:49
  theorizing you've been able to do and now
• 1:49:51
  this production that you're putting out.
• 1:49:53
  Do you see yourself continuing this path
• 1:49:56
  where you're intersecting art and and
• 1:50:00
  ocean science in particular or climate
• 1:50:02
  science in particular?
• 1:50:07
  So only also because aside from the joy
• 1:50:12
  of collaboration and the joy of finding
• 1:50:16
  new ways of doing things in
• 1:50:19
  terms of artistic creation.
• 1:50:22
  There is a bigger task really for me and
• 1:50:26
  that is the you know, the social pedagogy
• 1:50:30
  that comes along with it, the kind of
• 1:50:33
  responsibility that we need to forge in,
• 1:50:37
  you know, making things change. We have
• 1:50:41
  to make a breakthrough
• 1:50:42
  with climate injustice.
• 1:50:44
  This this, you know, when we are starting
• 1:50:48
  our yeah, before coming here back in
• 1:50:53
  Winnipeg, there's a forest fire that I've
• 1:50:58
  experienced and smelling. I smell it,
• 1:51:02
  right? And also there's darkness and you
• 1:51:05
  know, one o'clock p.m.
• 1:51:06
  It's so dark. Yeah, it's about so weird.
• 1:51:10
  And then coming here doing an artist
• 1:51:14
  residency with the artist, we have two
• 1:51:17
  typhoons coming together. There's kind of
• 1:51:20
  a co weathering of two typhoons. We are
• 1:51:23
  haunted. It's it's lived whether in
• 1:51:26
  Canada or here in the Philippines.
• 1:51:28
  And I think that there's so much things
• 1:51:33
  to really do in terms of generating this
• 1:51:37
  kind of collaboration to make
• 1:51:38
  breakthroughs to stop the injustices that
• 1:51:42
  we are experiencing in this world. So it
• 1:51:49
  will it's a commitment.
• 1:51:51
  It's a life commitment. It's no longer
• 1:51:54
  about, you know, creating one artistic
• 1:51:58
  work after another. I've shifted. It's
• 1:52:01
  now when I was really starting with my
• 1:52:04
  career, it's I was just busy creating one
• 1:52:11
  project after another.
• 1:52:12
  But right now I became I realized that I
• 1:52:15
  wanted long process. I want to really
• 1:52:18
  engage with my method. And I'm no longer
• 1:52:22
  bi-narristic about it, like the you
• 1:52:26
  rehearse and then you create the show.
• 1:52:28
  What if the process in itself is a show
• 1:52:30
  and my audience as my collaborators, we
• 1:52:34
  are also audience of our own work because
• 1:52:37
  we're learning from
• 1:52:38
  different disciplines.
• 1:52:39
  And then we become embodied and live with
• 1:52:43
  the things that we are. We are performing
• 1:52:45
  the lessons that we're getting from our
• 1:52:47
  process in our everyday life. So it's no
• 1:52:50
  longer kind of a dichotomy. You know,
• 1:52:54
  maybe I could stop with my thought here.
• 1:52:56
  In Bali, when I did my fellowship in
• 1:53:02
  Indonesia for seven months, I went to
• 1:53:05
  Bali and you know, the Balinese people,
• 1:53:08
  they don't have word for art. They don't
• 1:53:11
  even work for artists because every day
• 1:53:14
  is an artistic work. So if you are a
• 1:53:17
  barber, you're probably a musician too.
• 1:53:21
  All right. So there's this kind of a
• 1:53:23
  lived experiences of this, the science
• 1:53:26
  and if you're a dentist, probably you're
• 1:53:29
  also a mask maker. So there's this, yeah,
• 1:53:32
  yeah, they mass. So some my theory is
• 1:53:35
  colonialism really categorize
• 1:53:38
  everything this thing, right.
• 1:53:40
  And we need to combat that as well.
• 1:53:44
  Yeah, yeah, very interesting.
• 1:53:47
  Parvin, how about yourself when you
• 1:53:50
  envision, you know, after this as you're
• 1:53:52
  finishing up your fellowship, you
• 1:53:53
  obviously have this installment that
• 1:53:55
  you're working on. Do you see, you've
• 1:53:59
  been you've been working with art and
• 1:54:00
  science for a little bit now. Do you see
• 1:54:02
  this as being, you know, just another
• 1:54:05
  step in the journey of exploring, you
• 1:54:08
  know, your, your journey within art and
• 1:54:10
  or the intersection of art and science?
• 1:54:13
  Absolutely, because it was my first time
• 1:54:16
  to collaborate with the scientists. I
• 1:54:19
  didn't have a chance to work with
• 1:54:20
  scientists during my bachelor for the by
• 1:54:22
  worth. But this time it was really
• 1:54:25
  surprising for me when I had sessions and
• 1:54:28
  meeting with the scientists and when I
• 1:54:30
  talk with them and I saw that how much we
• 1:54:35
  have in common in our conversation.
• 1:54:37
  And it was it opened up a lot of I think
• 1:54:41
  new insight for me for
• 1:54:42
  my future project as well.
• 1:54:45
  Love it. Now, for all start with Parvin,
• 1:54:49
  then we'll ask Dennis. There's going to
• 1:54:52
  be other fellows, you know, I don't know
• 1:54:53
  when the next fellow is going to become,
• 1:54:54
  but there's going to be another art
• 1:54:56
  fellow. What would be your advice as
• 1:54:58
  someone who's just finishing up to the
• 1:55:01
  next fellow that comes in from from an
• 1:55:04
  artist point of view?
• 1:55:04
  I would say that bring a huge curiosity
• 1:55:11
  by yourself and open up a lot of
• 1:55:15
  questions because I found ONC very
• 1:55:19
  responsive about all of the questions,
• 1:55:22
  especially the question that I had. And I
• 1:55:25
  had a really great experience working
• 1:55:27
  with them because it helped me to expand
• 1:55:31
  my experiences and expand my horizons.
• 1:55:33
  About how the art and science can
• 1:55:36
  intersect and how I can work in that
• 1:55:40
  intersection. Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
• 1:55:44
  And Dennis, how about yourself? Yeah, I
• 1:55:48
  think this is an opportunity to make
• 1:55:54
  sense of your humanity as well, you know,
• 1:55:58
  because you're working with people who
• 1:56:00
  have dedicated their
• 1:56:01
  lives into practical thinking.
• 1:56:02
  And I am and I am amazed with the
• 1:56:10
  commitment, a commitment of the
• 1:56:13
  scientists to provide a kind of a world
• 1:56:18
  making right. Because when when we think
• 1:56:20
  of science and arts, it kind of
• 1:56:22
  separated. But somehow it echoes also to
• 1:56:25
  to me that this kind of deep, deep
• 1:56:28
  commitment to make things change.
• 1:56:31
  Right. So I think that one should capture
• 1:56:34
  that desire for change and
• 1:56:39
  transformation. I saw that from working
• 1:56:42
  with Juniper and Dwight and such a
• 1:56:47
  beautiful theater to observe that kind of
• 1:56:51
  commitment to their craft.
• 1:56:55
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And Dwight, final
• 1:56:58
  question to you, as you know, you're
• 1:57:01
  probably maybe looking over applicants.
• 1:57:03
  I'm not sure who's coming in next or what
• 1:57:06
  that person might be. What would be your
• 1:57:09
  advice for any person coming in through
• 1:57:11
  this fellowship? Any artists when they
• 1:57:13
  when they arrive and
• 1:57:14
  they do this fellowship?
• 1:57:17
  Yeah, you know, I just want them to,
• 1:57:21
  first of all, feel at home within our
• 1:57:24
  organization, find a landing landing
• 1:57:27
  place where they can feel like they
• 1:57:29
  belong, feel part of the team. And then,
• 1:57:33
  you know, as, as parven said, and Dennis,
• 1:57:38
  you know, bring your full curiosity and
• 1:57:42
  bring your questions, bring your ethics,
• 1:57:44
  bring your world changing.
• 1:57:46
  Bring your big ideas that maybe we didn't
• 1:57:49
  think about because we were so stuck on
• 1:57:52
  the data management system and the
• 1:57:54
  technology. So you're going to be able to
• 1:57:59
  help us, you know, crack open some things
• 1:58:03
  that we didn't know we could. And so
• 1:58:07
  you're going to be an
• 1:58:08
  important part of that.
• 1:58:10
  So I want them to feel that they're,
• 1:58:13
  they're really valuable and that they
• 1:58:17
  belong and what they're
• 1:58:20
  doing is really matters.
• 1:58:22
  It's very important work. Absolutely.
• 1:58:24
  What a great way to sum up this
• 1:58:27
  interview. I want to thank all three of
• 1:58:29
  you for joining me for the work that you
• 1:58:30
  do and that you continue to do in the
• 1:58:32
  future work that you're going to be doing
• 1:58:33
  and really challenging our thought
• 1:58:36
  processes and thinking about how, you
• 1:58:38
  know, the environment is interacting with
• 1:58:40
  us, how we interact with the environment
• 1:58:42
  in a lot of different ways, not only just
• 1:58:44
  from an environmental point of view, but
• 1:58:46
  a social justice point of view and just
• 1:58:49
  like an economic point of view as well.
• 1:58:51
  And I think it really challenges us. So
• 1:58:53
  thank you so much for all the work that
• 1:58:55
  you've done and continue to do. And I
• 1:58:58
  want to thank you for joining us. Love to
• 1:58:59
  have you back on and discuss more more
• 1:59:01
  art and science intersection. Wonderful.
• 1:59:05
  So glad to be here with you.
• 1:59:06
  Thank you so much. Thank you Parvin,
• 1:59:10
  Dennis and Dwight for coming on the how
• 1:59:12
  to protect the ocean podcast today. It
• 1:59:14
  was great to have you part of our
• 1:59:15
  surfacing secret series. And it was just
• 1:59:18
  really great to explore how art and
• 1:59:21
  science really connect. I just love
• 1:59:23
  hearing your journeys and showing us how
• 1:59:25
  deeply art and science can intertwine not
• 1:59:28
  just communicate ocean science, but to
• 1:59:31
  heal, connect and reimagine our relationship with the sea.
• 1:59:34
  I love that fact. And if you enjoyed this
• 1:59:37
  episode, be sure to check out our show
• 1:59:39
  notes for links to their work and more
• 1:59:41
  about Ocean Networks Canada Art Science
• 1:59:44
  Fellowship. And if you have any comments,
• 1:59:46
  I would love to hear them. Just put them
• 1:59:47
  in the comments below if you're watching
• 1:59:48
  this on YouTube. And of course, if you're
• 1:59:50
  listening to this on the audio version in
• 1:59:52
  your favorite podcast app, please feel
• 1:59:54
  free to connect with me on Instagram. DM
• 1:59:57
  me at how to protect the ocean. That's at
• 1:59:59
  how to protect the ocean. And of course,
• 2:00:01
  you can always connect with me through our website.
• 2:00:02
  www.speakupforblue.com forward slash
• 2:00:07
  contact just fill out the form. It'll go
• 2:00:09
  right to my email and I will respond as
• 2:00:11
  soon as I can. I want to thank Parvin. I
• 2:00:13
  want to thank Dennis. I want to thank
• 2:00:15
  Dwight for joining us on today's episode.
• 2:00:17
  And I want to thank Ocean Networks Canada
• 2:00:18
  for just providing so much great content
• 2:00:21
  for not only this podcast, but also for
• 2:00:23
  you to hear what they're up to each and
• 2:00:26
  every year. I just love it. Thank you so
• 2:00:28
  much for joining us on today's episode of
• 2:00:29
  the how to protect the ocean
• 2:00:30
  podcast. I'm your host Andrew.
• 2:00:32
  Have a great day. We'll talk to you next
• 2:00:34
  time and happy conservation.