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#2118 Inherited Family Trauma - Mark Wolynn · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's some bloody you project at
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook with red hair. What dude, what have
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you done? Look like? Why will you look? I mean
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: this respectfully. Who who pays to become a ranger? Shout
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: out for the wranger?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: We rang it anyway, So well I may as well
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: just get I may as well make it unquestionable. Huh.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: But you're not really red like you normally like. But
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: when I am that color, when I am my natural color,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: people call me a ranger. Anyway, Well, you're definitely not
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: a ranger. I am now definitely look at it. Mark
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Willnn Do you know what a ranger is? Do you
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: know what a ranger?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: In fact, I get in trouble all the time when
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I'm teaching in Sydney for saying rooted. I say, you
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: know in English, we say you know you want to
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: be rooted in your body and everybody their eyes buger
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: and I learned. No, No, I don't know, but I
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: can see the direction we're.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Going, he said in the English. Tiff you know, we
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: speak English, bro, You know this is not a unique language.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: It just sounds weird because of the bloody, ossy accent. No,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Tiff normally has kind of this is a great way
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: to start the show. He's like, what the fuck have
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I come to? I thought I was talking about inherited
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: family trauma. Now I'm talking about TIFFs muddy hair situation.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Mark wi Lynn, Welcome to the You Project, sir. How
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: are you?
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: I'm good? Thank you for having me, Craig and Tiff fantastic.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Tell everyone where you're at, Like, right now, you're in
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the States. I'm guessing I didn't ask you that, but
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I'm in the.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Very northern part of California, right at the Organ border.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Right and are you in suburbia? Are you in Metropolis?
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Are you in the wilderness? Are you somewhere else.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Wilderness with about three thousand people? Wow, that's beautiful, man.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: What do you whether the What do you love about
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: living in a small town. I'm guessing it's a slow moving,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: glacial kind of just laid back space to be.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: The lack of density of people's thoughts. So I move
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: When I moved here, I felt free from how do
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: you explain it? You know, with people living on all
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: sides of you, it's it's not noisy to your ears,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: but it's noisy to your soul. Here, there's space, there's
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: lots of green, there's mountains. I think better, I write better.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's interesting, isn't it? That is so interesting? There's something.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: That affects affects me anyway, energetically, Like even if I'm
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: doing the exact same task, or I don't know, I'm
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: working on research stuff, or I'm writing something but doing
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: it in one environment, and I'm not even talking about
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: physical noise, but just doing it in a peaceful environment
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: versus an environment where there is you know, a level
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: of chaos around it produces a very different outcome and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: experience for me. So yeah, I wonder are we And
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I know this is not your area of expertise, but
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: let's chat and then we'll jump in. But do you
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: think energetically and creatively where you are has a big
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: ish influence on not only your state, but what you
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: can produce in terms of work and so on.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I just finished two books and half we done
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a third, you know, in January of twenty twenty, before
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the pandemic. I moved up to a cabin that we
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: had to write and then you know, and then everybody retired.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: With me a week later.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But I never left because this is this is where
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I feel creative, free, and I can you know, that's
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: what I do. I write books to teach people about
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: things that they don't think about. And I'm sure we'll
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: get into that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I wonder you know, like for me, what
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: we're talking about now is a level of kind of
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: self awareness and situational awareness and self understanding and that
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: you know, my fascination is with people understanding people, people
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: understanding themselves. Mine's more in the psychology space. Shaws is
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: more in the I guess physiology and psychology. And but
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: like trying to figure out how do I work best,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Where do I work best, what's my best operating system?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Because not everybody is going to work or function optimally
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: in a cabin in the woods. Not everybody is going
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to work or function the twenty fifth floor of a
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: skyscraper equally. You know, It's like and like, not everybody's
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: going to be able to eat peanuts and get a
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: good outcome. Not everybody's going to go great with a
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: certain kind of strength training. But trying to understand how
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: my body and my as you said, my soul or
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: my mind or my energy or my emotions work so
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: then I can kind of build a model that works
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: for me, not necessarily would work for Tiff or work
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: for Mark, but works for me.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Well, my wife does something called human design, and my
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: environment in human design, which I didn't know is mountains. Yeah,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: right outside my window or you can't see it now
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: because we have rain today. But I have a massive
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: fourteen thousand foot mountain rate there, and there's a grandeur.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to explain this way. There's a groundedness
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: of that mountain, and there's a way in which when
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I work, I sink synchronized.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: To that mountain.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it makes sense to anybody, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I know that that's what I'm doing. I'm energetically sinking
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: to that, and then I feel like there's this upflow
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: of information that I just fish in a stream, and
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I mean not real fishing, fishing energetically in a stream
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: for ideas or just you know, catching catching them as
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: they come.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, Amzing, I think have you climbed that four teene
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: thousand foot mountain?
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  Speaker 2: By the way, you know, I'm probably the only one
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: in this town of three thousand people who haven't. I
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: have friends that have climbed it. Thirty five times. I've
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: never been up done. You know, I'm up about eight
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: or nine thousand feet, but I've not gone fourteen. I've
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: climbed probably eight and a half.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Fourteen is high. That's like Base Camp Everest. Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: This is the third largest mountain from sea level in
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: the States. I don't know. I have no idea what
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: that means. They all go from sea level.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Anyway, you'd probably jog up that TIF before lunchtime, wouldn't you.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: You'd probably do it a thousand push ups at the top.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Now I just picked that mountain up and deadlift it. Oh,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: before you became a before you became a I can't
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: say it. What has happened to you? I try? I
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: don't know. You know, those emails that I keep getting,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep them to a minimum. All right,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: let's talk about you, though, or let's talk about your work.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about your fascination, your research. Let's call it.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You're calling So you've written a book called and since
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: revised it. It didn't start with you. You kind of
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: specialize in, or focus on and teach people about inherited
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: family trauma. Let's start with the simplest of questions, assuming
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: that some people will know a fair bit or some
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: about this, or at least know what that is. But
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: also some people have never heard of that term. Even so,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: let's dumb it right down. Mainly for me. Inherited family
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  Speaker 1: trauma is what.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll tell you about a case I had not
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: long ago. So a thirty seven year old guy starts
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: drinking and starts driving recklessly when his wife is eight
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: months pregnant with their son. Why, I mean, he doesn't
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: put it together. And I'm glad he shows up in
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: my office because he never makes the connection that his
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: own father died in a car crash a month before
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: he was born. Is a great example. And he never
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: knows his father, he never meets him, but indirectly he
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: attempts to join him in the same fate, you know,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: dying in a car accident. Now, what I tell people
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: is we need to realize that the reaction to a
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: trauma doesn't necessarily stomp with the people who experienced it.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: The feelings, the sensations, specifically the stress response, the way
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: the genes express can pass forward to the children and grandchildren,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: affecting them in a similar way, even though they didn't
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: personally experience the trauma, and this guy never puts it together.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: You know that. I use that as a way to
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  Speaker 2: explain it because it's pretty clear I can do that.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I can give you twenty of those.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean hat this is a
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  Speaker 1: big question, which is probably a two hour lecture answer.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: But how does it work? Like what is the mechanism?
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Like what is happening? Because I think you say that
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: it's around epigenetics, and like there's a lot of like
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: we know that we can be influenced of course by
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: our parents and grandparents because of situation and environments and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: social norms and interactions and there's that, but that's not
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  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, right, We're talking about something
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  Speaker 1: that's different. This is biological, this is physiological. This is
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: something happened to Grandad that I'm not even aware of,
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  Speaker 1: and that is something around that is manifesting in me
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: sixty years later or bringing stuff up for me. Do
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you know how that works?
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  Speaker 2: I do. I have to books about it. So when
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a traum happens, it changes us. It changes us literally
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  Speaker 2: it causes a chemical change, and this can change how
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: our genes function. Sometimes for generations so technically, trauma happens,
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  Speaker 2: and then there's chemical signals in our cell that they
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: call chemical tags, and these attached to the DNA and
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  Speaker 2: tell the cells to use or ignore certain genes, enabling
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: us to better deal with the trauma. And then the
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: way our genes are affected changes can change how we
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  Speaker 2: act or feel. For example, we can become sensitive or
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: reactive to situations that are similar to the original trauma,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: even if that trauma occurred in a previous generation, so
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that we now just like them in the past generation,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: have a better chance of surviving the trauma, whether it
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: happens or not. I'll give you an example. So let's
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  Speaker 2: say our grandparents come from a war torn country. People
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: are being shot, bombs are going off, uniform men are
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: lining people up in the square, people are being taken away.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: So our grandparents would develop and pass forward a skill set,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: let's say, sharper reflexes, quicker reaction times, reactions to the
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: violence to help them survive this trauma that they just experience.
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  Speaker 2: Now it's passed forward to us. But the problem is
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  Speaker 2: we've inherited a stress response, often with the dial set
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: to ten, and we're prepared for this catastrophe that never arrives,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: and we rarely make the link. Craig, you know that
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: our anxiety, our hypervigilance, our depression is connected to our
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: parents and grandparents. We just think we're wired this way.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: We walk around a whole life thinking, yeah, I'm just
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: wired that way. I have an overactive vegus nerve, an
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: overactive nervous SYSM, an overactive amygdala.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's and so how do we and again these
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: are big questions that probably require more time, but how
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: do we recognize is this true? Or is this anxiety
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  Speaker 1: response or stress response, or this overthinking or this obsessing?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Is this just you know, is this a byproduct of
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: something I went through ten years ago or is this
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  Speaker 1: something that could be inherited family trauma? How do we differentiate?
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: How do we know? Because obviously it's not always about
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: what happened fifty years ago, it's you know, there's there's
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: other reasons. But how do we discover that?
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Well, we don't know until we take the case. So,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you know, trauma behaves similarly. Our nervous system generates fate
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: flight freeze, whether it's something that happened to us in
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: utero in our early infancy as a toddler in our childhood,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: or something that happened in a previous generation. But for me,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: because I've been in this field a gazillion years, because
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I'm a gazillion years old, I can see science. So
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: many of us feel like we're carrying something that doesn't
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: belong to us. So we have a fear or a
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: sadness or a grief, but it's not connected anything. We're
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: struggling with a health condition. We can't explain a panic attack.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: So what I've seen, and this is what I'd like
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to share because it'll give the readers, readers, listeners. No
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: one's reading right now, it'll give the listeners something to
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: think about. We can begin experiencing a fear or a
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: symptom that strikes suddenly or unexpectedly when we reach a
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: certain age or hit a certain milestone or event in
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: our lives. For example, we leave our wife or husband
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: or partner at at thirty, but never think that our
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: grandmother was widowed at thirty and our mother separated from
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: our father at We don't make those connections. So it's
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: not just ages, you know. For example, we can it's
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: events or milestone, so we can get married, and all
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: of a sudden we're shut down and we can't explain it.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And it may have something to do with a break
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: in the attachment with our mom, or it may have
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: something to do with the events that happened to our
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: parents or grandparents. I'll maybe give cases about this to
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: explain it if we need to. But let me keep going,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: because there's other things other than getting married or ages.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Let me think of them. Oh, we move, we moved
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: to a new place, and then suddenly we become depressed
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: like our ancestors who were persecuted and forced out of
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: their homeland. Or we get we get rejected by our partner,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: and the grief is insurmountable, and then it takes us
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: back to an earlier grief, often to a break in
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: the attachment with our mom. So you know from my
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: book what I did is I walked two lines. I said,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I wrote about breaks in the attachment and I wrote
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: about generational trauma equally, because they both must be considered
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: as deep causes of these traumas. But let me keep
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: going on that idea just for a minute. Now, turn
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: it back over. So I often see people that get
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: you know, they get rejected, but they've only been with
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: this person two months, and all of a sudden, I die.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I don't want to live anymore. But you know it
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: can't be related to that person because they've only been
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: with them two months. But their grief is real because
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: it's taken them back to a break in the attachment
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: with the mother where they did feel like they could die.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: You know, if the mother isn't present, we can't fend
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: for ourselves, and it's it's life threatening. Actually, let me
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: give you one more example and then I'll turn turn
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: it over.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Another one is we can have a child and everything's cool,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: but then we get pregnant or we have the child,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: and it's though it's as though this ancestral alarm clock
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: starts ringing inside us. I once worked with a woman
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Finer Life, but as soon as she gets pregnant, she's
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: consumed with anxiety. And you know, I ask her, what's
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the fear? You know, that's one of my questions, as
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you know from my book, what's the fear? She said,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I'll do something terrible and I'll harm my baby. So
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: I said, did you ever harm a baby? She said no,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: of course, And I said, did anyone in your family
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: ever hearn a baby and she's just about to say no,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: she goes and it also it hits her. Her grandmother,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: as a young woman, had a little baby lit a candle,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: caught the curtains on fire, caught the house on fire.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: She can't get the baby out. The baby dies. And
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: then the woman says to me, but we were never
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: allowed to talk about it, and we'll talk about why
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: talking about it is essential. But in that moment, she
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: makes the link that she had inherited this terror from
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: her grandmother, and then we could break the pattern.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: You know what I find that is interesting. But what
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think about with that is but she knew she
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: had knowledge, right, so she she wasn't.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: In the forefront of her bring. Yes, it was in there,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: but she was about to say no, no, what ever
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: harmed me. Actually she did say that, I go, are.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: You sure right? That's fascinating. You know, this is like
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a slight left turn. But I'm trying to think about
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you know, you try and relate every new thing that
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: you hear or when someone's telling me or teaching me something.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, if I ever had anything like that? And
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: this is a little bit weird, but a brief story,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: but I've got a backdrop it with something. So my mom,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: her mom's mom died giving birth to my mum, So
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: my mom never met her mother. I never met my grandmother, right,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: So let's just park that. A few years ago I
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: was in Ireland.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: We can't park it if you give me that detail.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: There's so much about that, but go.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Ahead, Okay, hang on, No, but here's my then you
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: can therapize the shit out of me. So I went
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: to Island to do some work. I was going to speak,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and i'd you know, I didn't really think much about it.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I've been to England, I've been around a few other
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: places in Europe, and but I hadn't been to Ireland.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: So I was looking forward to it. And I got there,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Mark and Tiff and everyone else. I got there and
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: nothing in my mind was thinking about anything in this.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: But I got there and I felt like, Oh, I
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: almost felt like I'd come home. Oh my grandmother was
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Irish right wherever I went, or not at wherever, but
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of places I went it felt familiar. The
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Irish accent and the Irish people felt very and I
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: don't like, in a serious way, like I've never had
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: this in my life before, I've never had it since,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and it was like quite It was quite emotional for me,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, this is weird. And I remember
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: being in a supermarket just buying some crap in Ireland
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and this lady talking to me and she felt and
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know, and I'm not really too woo woo right,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like that, give me the data, show me the evidence.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: But and I'm in there now, fuck that I've been
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: here before or or there's something there was something really
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: familiar to me. Yeah, And then I was back at
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: my hotel later I'm like, what is that about. I'm like, oh, yeah,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: my grandmother. It was from here. I don't know if
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: that's that, but to me, it felt like I knew it.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: I'd never even thought about it.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: She's the most excluded person in the family because she
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: dies giving birth to your mother, and she's the most
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: essential for the well being that gets installed. Let me
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: say a sentence and then we'll pull it uproof if
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: you want. Our mother them is responsible for installing the
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: software for well being or lack of wellbeing, for safety
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: or lack of safety, threat for calm or hypervigilance and
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: if your mother, even though she's raised by her father,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: her grandma, whoever it is, there's still a massive break
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: from the woman with whom she knew for nine months
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: in that womb, her sounds, her rhythms, her heartbeat, the warmth,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: all all of that is suddenly gone, and then that
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: is what will pass forth. Well, let's let's let me
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: look at talk about another way. Your mom will have
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: a break in the attachment and her fight flight freeze responses,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: her reactivity from not having her mother, from not knowing
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: her mother, from being cut off from her mother, will
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: go into the egg cell, go into the germ cell,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: and that will pass forward to your mom's kids, potentially
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: to your kids if this isn't mitigated. You know, another
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: way to explain this work is that becomes trauma. Okay,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: that trauma happens, and that then there's information rich molecules
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: of my mom's gone, my mom's gone. Oh my god,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that thing that even though your mom doesn't have cognitive awareness,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: she has sematic awareness. Information rich molecules. They latch onto
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the DNA and they act like dimmer switches, controlling which
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: sections of the DNA get used and which do not.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: In other words, which genes get turned on and which
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: genes get turned off. Now there's you didn't ask me this,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: but since you've told me you were a science geek,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I'm giving it to you. There's three big mechanisms of
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: transfer of intergenerational epigenetic transfer. One is DNA methylation, where
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: that blocks the proteins from transcribing. His Stone modifications is
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: another one levels of non coding RNA. Now non coding RNA,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: it contains all this information. So you know, my book
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: is full of studies that talk about all these mechanisms
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: because they have to. People want to know, Wait a minute,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: how does this work? What works with those three mechanisms.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: It works that you have the dimmer switch. But then
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: what's that dimmer switch doing. It's affecting the genes, It's
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: affecting how they're expressing. And then if they look at
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the mechanism behind that, they go, oh, there's changes in
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: DNA methylation in your mom in you, and then in
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: your potential changes in the level of non coding RNAs
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Mark that's fascinating. How long, give or take has this
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: kind of research around generational trauma not just your work,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: but work in this space, it must be relatively new.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: How long have people been yes thinking about I was
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: talking about.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: This now' That is a wonderful question, because when I
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: wrote the book, there was nothing the first time, and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: you know it's now we're talking about twenty fourteen. When
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I wrote the first draft of the book and there's
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: very little, and my editor says, give me more science
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: than they were. Yeah, wish. But then twenty fifteen it
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: all starts dropping in. So in twenty fifteen the studies
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: with mice come out. Now mice share ninety ninety two
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: ninety three percent of the genome similarities with humans, so
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: they can do studies with mice and then extrapolate outcomes.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: And you know the first book had a lot of
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: my studies. Well guess what first book comes does really well.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: It sells three million copies worldwide. Bow it doesn't have
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: the human studies Craig and that. So I go to
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: my publisher last year and I go, sorry, dude, we're
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: rewriting this. All the cool studies have come out in
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: the past ten years with humans. I'll tell you what
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: I added in the new book. I'll just give you
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: one study it's mind blowing. Let me think about it
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: now so I get it right.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: There's a two thousand and twenty five, two twenty five
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: study where researchers examined war related violence in three generations
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: of Syrian refugees and discovered that there's this intergenerational epigenetic
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: signature of violence which is imbedded in the genome. So
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: specifically it was this mechanism was DNA methylation, and they
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: find changes in DNA methylation in the pregnant grandmothers who
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: were directly exposed to war violence and their daughters who
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: were prenatally exposed to the war violence in the womb.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: And then because the eggs are already in our mom
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: when she's five months in utero with our grandmother, the
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: grandchildren were journalie exposed. That's one study. I could tell
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: you many studies. Okay, there's one more in the new book.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen in Brazil, they looked at women who
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: had gone through partner violence, so they're exposed to partner
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: violence and while they were pregnant with their daughters who
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: then become mothers and of themselves, and the research just
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: discovered that the grandmothers who experienced the violence were able
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to pass the effects of that violence onto their grandchildren. Again.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: The mechanism was DNA methylation, which blocks proteins from attaching
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: to the DNA, suppressing its expression.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Wow, and there's more I could.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: I just filled this new book up with I needed
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: thirty percent bigger, took some things out that we didn't need,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: and put in all the good studies with humans, with
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Pakistani orphans that lost their mums, et cetera, et cetera,
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: and made it. As you can tell, I'm psyched about
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: the book. I really like it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Well, congratude. We're going to keep going. But while we're
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: talking about the book, so some people like, what's the
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: name of that book? Again? Is called it didn't start
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: with you? And just while we're hear we normally do
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: this at the end, but we'll do it now and
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: maybe again at the nwww Mack will In Wlyn dot
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: com and say, Matt Mark Willin on Instagram if you
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: want to connect with Mark, find out more about what
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: he's doing. All right, so I want to know. And again,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: everyone keep in mind, this is very much a snapshot
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: of something that's pretty enormous, right, So we're kind of
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: just opening the door on this today. But you can
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: do a deep dive if you so wish. Probably start
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: with a book. There's an idea, all right, So let's go.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I come to see you, and we do some sessions
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: or a session and I have a bit of awt together,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: we have a bit of an aha moment and I'm like,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: oh my god. And then we realize or we pinpoint,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: or we have some kind of revelation about where my
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: trauma might be coming from. Now this I don't even
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: know if this is the right wordmark, but how do
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: we treat it? How do we heal? Where do we begin?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Because I'm assuming it's not the same protocol or the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: same a recipe or to sign medicine for every person
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: or is it?
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: No, No, it isn't. And you know that sets me
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: in two directions as we're talking. I will talk about healing,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: but I liked your question about you come to my
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: office and how do we figure out your trauma? You
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: know people will do this in the book, but I'm
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: going to throw one of my tools that you called
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the core sentence. I'm going to say, hey, Craig, if
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: the worst thing happened to you, if things went terribly wrong,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: if things suddenly went south, if your life were to
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: fall apart, what's your worst fear? What's the worst thing
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: that could happen to you? And then you know, we
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: can try this in the audience, but don't do it
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: if you don't feel resourced. But let me ask the
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: question again, so it's not just to Craig. So if
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: your life suddenly fell apart, if it were to just
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: fall apart, go south, things went terribly wrong in your life,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: what's your worst fear? What's the worst thing that could
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: happen to you? And now, whatever your answer is, take
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: it down a step by saying and if that happened,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: what's the worst part of that? And then take it
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: to one more step and if that happened, what's the
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: worst part of that? So people end up with what
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I call the core sentence. I'll be all alone, I'll
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: be rejected, I'll be abandoned, I'll be left. These are
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: more attachment sentences, and these are the types of sentences
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: that come when someone loses a mother, or a mother
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: isn't present, or a mother isn't emotionally available. These are
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: those sentences that you find that tell me, ah, I'm
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: likely going to be working with attachment here, whether it's
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: my client's attachment or it's inherited attachment. But the generational
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: sentence says Craig, these are fascinating. Someone will say, I'll
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: hurt a child, or I'll do something terrible and it'll
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: all be my fault. Now be hated, or I'll be ostracized,
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I'll be sent away, or I'll go crazy, they'll lock
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: me up, I'll start a fire, eat all these things,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: and it's like you're going, well, dude, how did they
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: get that? I mean, you're thinking like that is not attachment,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: that's not this generation. So if somebody says, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I'll go crazy, they'll lock me up, you can go
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: both ways, and I'll tell you what I'm doing. I'll say, hey,
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: did anyone go crazy? Was anybody locked up? Did anyone
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: did a woman say have postpartum depression back then and
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: they didn't know how to treat it, and they institutionalized
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: her with someone in your family, institutionalized and never never
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: got out again. So if they say no, nothing like
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: that happen, but they give you enough clues that its attachment.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: The infant, the toddler. The infant goes crazy when the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: mother's attuneament is off target. So if our mother couldn't
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: see us, know us, soothe us in two of what
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: we needed. It's a it's an absolute feeling of panic
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: and horror, so that a sentence like that could go
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: both ways. But you're asking me how we heal. I'm
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: going to turn it over to you. I'll talk about healing.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: But I thought that might stir up.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: No, that's nice, Like what so, I mean, you know
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: this is all new to me and TIFP is this
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: all new to you? New wish in terms of yeah,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I mean we both kind of have heard of it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: But this is a deeper dive, which is great. I'm thinking, okay,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: so it's genetic or epigenetic, it's kind of influencing our
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: genes two generations later, da da da, which is you know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: like biological. Then I think, but there's an emotional and
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: a psychological consequence or components. So it's not just about
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: your body or gy genes. It's not just about your mind.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: It's not just about your emotions, and the emotional and
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: psychological symptoms or byproducts in this case often driven by
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: the physiology So do we treat the mind stuff, do
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: we treat the body stuff? Do we treat the emotional stuff?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Is the word treat the wrong word, because it's no.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Everything you're saying leads back to body stuff. So if
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: we have thoughts of I'll be a band, all of
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: a sudden, there's either a dissociation or a disconnect, or
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: a tightening or a leaving above. In other words, Titus,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: fight flight is getting me out of here, away from
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: the thread. Freeze is shut down. So when we answer
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: one of these sentences, the core sentences, whether it's attachment
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: that happened to us with our mum or generational, we
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: still have a physiologic response to even those words. You know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I take people in the book to end the workbook.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: There's a workbook that goes with it if people want.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: But it's like I take people into the physical sensation
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: of it, because that is just physiology. So we have
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: fight flight freeze responses, reactions that are happening unconsciously in
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: our body, making us sick, making us anxious, making us
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: shut down, screwing up our relationships. And no matter where
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: it comes, whether this generation with our mom or or
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: in our early life or generation prior or to generations prior,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: the healing is still similar. We've got to have positive
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: experiences that can change our brain. I mean that I
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: can go into that deeper if you want, but I
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: just you know, I'm loving the fact that we're having
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a common Let me go into it deeper. I think
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I need to go on. I'm going loose. Sorry, So look,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: ultimately to hear, we've gone to have positive experiences strong
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: enough to change our brain and then be able to
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: practice the new feelings and new sensations associated with these experiences.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: So when we do that, we knows you know this
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: from probably a zillion podcast you've done with people. But
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: we we create new neural pathways, that's one way we
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: do it. But we also stimulate the release of feel
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: good neurotransmitters like dopamine or serotonin, or or we can
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: stimulate the release of feel good hormones in the body
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: like oxytocin or estrogen. But the main thing is even
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the genes involved in this stress response thing that we're
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: talking about, they can begin to change, they can begin
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to function in an improve way. We can change the
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: way our DNA expresses and we all know this. In
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: the audience when we do gratitude, Why do we do
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: a gratitude practice because it feels good? What does that
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: mean when it feels good? Well, so when we can
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: reach feelings of comfort, support, compassion, gratitude, generosity, loving kind
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I mean so many these types of feelings. These experiences
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: feed the prefrontal cortex, and that can help us reframe
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the stress response, so our nervous system has a chance
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: to downregulate. If I had to put it in a nutshell,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: I would say to the listeners this, I would say this,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: We need to practice being with what's uncomfortable first, uncomfortable
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: sensations in our body, just not being afraid of them,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: not popping out, not shutting down, not panicking, but being
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: able to be with them until we reach what's beneath them,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: which are sensations we experience as life giving, such as pulsing, tingling, softening, expanding,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: blood flowing, waves of energy, waves of warmth, These sensations
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: of life force in our core along our vegus nerve.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: This is the place to reside and hang out. And
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I always say that if we can hang out there
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: for sixty seconds and repeat that six times a day,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: that can be enough to change the brain and Cammon nervous.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Wow. I wanted to thank you. I wanted to ask you,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: like even just jumping out, but relating a context. So
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: in my research, I mean, I'm researching and think called
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: metap perception and metaaccuracy, which is your ability to understand
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: with some level of accuracy, how people experience you. So
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: at the core question is what's the market experience like
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: for the bloke that I buy my petrol from, or
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: for the audience I'm talking to, or the audience right now,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: or my sister whatever. So it's trying to understand. It's
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: a kind of a very high level of self awareness,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: situational awareness, and I think even with that, there's not
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of research in this area. There's some, but
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: so I'm always trying to explain to people what my
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: research is. I'm writing papers of submitted papers, I'm waiting
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: on stuff. All these things are happening. But it feels to.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Me like also in your field, or your very specific
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: focus in your field, it's something that, as you said
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, there's very little science and now there's
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: more science and.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: It's expanding and unfolding. Is that do you what's the word?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Are you constantly explaining this? Are you getting pushback?
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Do you.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Do you need to Not that you're trying to convince
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: anyone of anything, but enlighten or educate people who might
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: otherwise not be familiar or aware of supportive even of this,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Like that must be a thing for you.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Not anymore. It was so when I first came out
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: talking about this in two thousand and well, I've been
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: talking about this for forty years. But when I'm rid
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: with email, I, you know, people would say, what's the science?
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: And I didn't even understand it to the degree that
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I do now Now it's in my bones. I totally
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: get it. But there's not so much pushback right now
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: because the zeitgeist of generational trauma has hit critical mass.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I mean they even did a Netflix movie called Another
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Self about my book in Turkey, you know, so it's
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: it's reached critical mass now. But I love your book.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I love what you're talking about.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Boy.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I sure hope that you can fall on into that
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: research because it sounds really intriguing.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's I find it fascinating and it's funny,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: how you know, without jumping out of your stuff for
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: too long. But the way that we navigate the world
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: and way that we perceive the world is unique to us,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: you know, And every time, like I could talk to
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: ten people and at once in the same room with
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the same intent on the same day, and those ten
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: people walk away with a different version of who Craig
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Harper is or a different story about Craig Harper, and
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: to them, it's not a story, it's a reality. So
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: like it or not, people are always evaluating, judging, watching,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: not in a bad way necessarily, but having insight into
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: how people see you, not from a point of fear
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: or anxiety or self doubt or insecurity, but rather curiosity.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: When I understand what Craig is like for my audience,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: then I can build more rapport and connection and trust
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and respect versus I've got no idea how Mark thinks,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: So I'm just going to talk at Mark assuming Mark
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: thinks like Craig, which is a really fucking terrible strategy,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's like, which is why I try
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: to you know, I try to understand you. I try
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to understand your journey and your path and more specifically
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: your mind, Like what's the Mark reality right now? You know,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Like understanding specifically how others think is theory of mind.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: And so in the moment, I'm always trying to go
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: without being my focus. But I'm like, what is this
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: like for Mark? What is this like for Tiff? What
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: is this like this conversation right now for the audience?
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: You know, because if you if I'm just worried about
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: what I think of it, whether I like it, whether
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I'm having a good time, I'm going to create more
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: disconnection than connections. So yeah, I love all that stuff
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: and it ties in with it. It ties in with
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: everything I love.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: I love the idea of your book.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I love it. Wow, thanks you eight year.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Different realities. That's how my waife and I fight. We
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: have a big fate. We got different realities.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: It's hard being right all the time though. It's a burden,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: isn't it. I mean it's tough, Honey, you said this,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Yes I did not, cheers and you did difficult I
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: did not.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: So basically we've learned to see different realities.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Ye, hey, Mark, we've got a jam. But it's so
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: nice to meet you and talk to you, and congratulations
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: on your book and your revised version. Three million book sales.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Folks is that is no joke. That is that is
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: rare air. And it's been translated into forty plus languages,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: and he's just done a revised edition last year, which
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: is out tell people how to connect with you, find you,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: follow you, or wherever you want to point them.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Come to my website. I'm teaching a workshop in Corfu,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: May first through fourth. I get me on Instagram at
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Mark Willnn. I have not just a revised book, but
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: a brand new workbook which is like having a private
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: session with me where you learn how to trace your
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: symptoms back to either a generational trauma or an attachment trauma.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's like having a private session with me.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: It's how I designed it, where you know I'll ask
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you the right questions so you can connect the dots
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: to what you've been experiencing to either the trauma in
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: your family history or your early trauma. I mean, I
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: don't want to do I'm sorry, I'm doing self promotion.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: But I really believe in these two books, and I
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: worked really hard on them. That was what was moving
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: up here in this dense, less dense, spacious place. You know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: I just feel really creative here. But yeah, thank you,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed this conversation totally and I wish you
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: the best with your book.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it and it's super interesting and it's always
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: interesting for me anyway when we kind of dive into
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: territory of which I know little about, which is pretty
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: much every episode. Tip. Are you okay?
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I'm okay, thank you.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: We're just checking in with you anything Mark, and I
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: need to counsel you on or you all right? I'm
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: a redhead now, so I got this right. You're a ringer.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Mark learned a new word. Hey Mark, we'll say goodbye,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: O offfair but for the minute, so good. We appreciate you.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: It didn't start with you as the book everyone Mark
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: willin dot com on Instagram. Same deal. Thanks Mark. Maybe
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: we'll walk again and appreciate you.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Ye. I loved it