Latest / Imagine Media Podcast Network / God’s Goodness | Christian Testimonies, Hearing ... - Finding Joy When Your Prayers Go Unanswered | Lara Silverman | Ep. 158

Transcript

God’s Goodness | Christian Testimonies, Hearing ... - Finding Joy When Your Prayers Go Unanswered | Lara Silverman | Ep. 158 · Imagine Media Podcast Network

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Three years I went through so much anger so much
0:03
questioning. So I mean just in my heart because
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you have to remember i'm on a bed Okay, and there
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came a point I will tell you and the lord was
0:10
encouraging me keep waiting keep trusting, you
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know, I mean all sorts of messages from the lord
0:15
But there came a point three years in where I
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felt The Holy Spirit say to me in his still soft
0:21
voice the word acceptance and then he followed
0:24
up the following few weeks Everywhere I turned
0:26
it was always second Corinthians 12 9. My grace
0:30
is sufficient for you I'm gonna hold you through
0:32
this but I am calling you to acceptance of this
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and you can imagine I mean how painful that was
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to hear frankly just in the emotions of wait
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Lord I've been begging you for deliverance of
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my family. I mean, what do you mean? Like, it
0:47
was just a very difficult word. Hey there. Welcome
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to the God's Goodness podcast. We are your hosts,
0:56
Josh and Shelly Hankins, and we're here to share
0:58
real stories of God's power, stories of hope,
1:01
healing, and miracles that will strengthen your
1:04
faith. No matter what you're walking through,
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we want to remind you that God is good and He's
1:09
still moving today. Let's dive in. What do you
1:17
do when you've prayed for things to change and
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they haven't? You want to believe God is good,
1:22
but if you're being truthful, you thought His
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goodness would look different than this. So how
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do you keep trusting Him when what you desperately
1:30
wanted Him to change hasn't changed? Laura Silverman,
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author and host of Singing Through Fire, has
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had to decide what she believes about God's goodness
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when her circumstances seem to say otherwise.
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And her story challenges a question we may not
1:44
realize we're asking. Do I believe God is good
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because of what he gives me or because of who
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he is? Thank you so much for joining us today.
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We really appreciate having you on the show.
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Could you open us up in an opening prayer to
1:56
get our momentum going? Absolutely. Thank you
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so much for having me on, Shelly and Josh. The
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pleasure is all mine. I would love to open us
2:05
up in prayer. Thanks. Dear Lord, thank you so
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much for this opportunity to just speak over
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the airwaves about your glory, Lord, and the
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purposes you have even in our darkest places
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and our sufferings, Lord. So please, please give
2:21
me the right words and give Shelly and Josh the
2:24
right words to steward this conversation in a
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way that will encourage all the listeners out
2:30
there, and I pray for all of their hearts, Lord,
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to take something away that will honor and glorify
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you and edify them. Amen. Amen. All right. Take
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us back to before your health began to change.
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What did your life look like then, and what happened
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that started changing everything? Absolutely.
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Well, so my journey through the fire, if you
2:51
will, started eight years ago. I had just turned
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30. And this was in 2018 and I was at the top
2:59
of my game. I mean, I had graduated from Stanford
3:01
law school. I was very type A. I had worked for
3:05
a big law firm for five years, really loving
3:07
every second of it. I had worked for a couple
3:09
of federal judges. I mean, we're talking, I was
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really, you know, a workaholic, if you will,
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which was bad, obviously, but we can get into
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the idols issue later. But the point is that
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the Lord had just opened. the door to my dream
3:23
job as a federal criminal prosecutor. It was
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the job I had always wanted to do to work in
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criminal justice. I love public speaking and
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justice. And so here I was. And on the second
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week of the job, I fell mysteriously ill with
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a very rare neurological illness. And it's been
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eight years now, and frankly, we still don't
3:46
have a proper diagnosis. I mean, doctors have
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given me, you know, a million diagnoses, but
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I don't believe we have the right one because
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after trying 150 treatments, nothing has worked.
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And, but the long and short of it is that first
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10 months, I took a leave from the U S attorney's
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office. They said, oh, you know, go heal from
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this thing, come back. And after trying about
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10 treatments, nothing worked. And so there came
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a point where I, my family was praying. We were
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like, okay, should Laura resign? I mean, I couldn't
4:17
go back. I mean, and just to explain for the
4:20
audience. Right now, I am bedridden about 70
4:24
% of the day, so I'm in bed right now as we're
4:27
recording this. Now, luckily, the last four years,
4:30
I can sit up and walk, you know, a couple hours
4:33
a day, then I lay back down, then sit back up.
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But basically, the illness stems from a faulty
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connection between my ears and my brain, such
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that my brain cannot tell where I am in space
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at any given point in time. So it's essentially
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vertigo, and it's, you know, exceedingly uncomfortable
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as you can imagine. Imagine and none of the drugs
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helped none of the treatments helped I mean But
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the point is after those first ten months the
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week that I was either supposed to resign or
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go back I felt so much pressure. I was thinking
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Lord. Are you really gonna make me resign from
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this dream job? I mean and my daily devotional
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that week my sister called me and She said have
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you read the devotional today? And I said no
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And I opened it and the message of the day was
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something like, you know, did God open a door
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only to close it? You know, is it really confusing
5:23
right now? Trust God because he's doing something
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you can't see. And it was just like, it was waterworks
5:30
because I kept thinking, why did you open the
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door to this job? Lord, if you're going to ask
5:34
me to resign, essentially, I mean, I never had
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the chance to stand up in that courtroom and
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say, you know, good morning, your honor. My name
5:41
is Laura Silverman and I represent the United
5:43
States. So it really was heartbreaking, but I
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chose to give up the career and from there things
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went from bad to worse So, I don't know if I
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should keep going with the story or you want
5:53
to ask any question. No, no, no keep going Okay,
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basically I was bedridden from there for three
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years straight and I'm talking literally disabled
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I mean on a bedpan with my mother nursing me
6:05
in one bedroom and my father, you know bringing
6:08
food every day They were feeding me. I mean it
6:11
was we brought Doctors, doctor after doctor to
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our home, I was hospitalized a million times.
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Stanford, UCSF, none of them were able to help
6:21
me. My whole church community praying for me.
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And you can imagine this job type experience
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of, okay, I was this high powered lawyer and
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now I'm on a bed. I'm completely disabled, relying
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on others, depending on the Lord exclusively.
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And I will tell you that the Lord was with me
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that entire time. I don't say that lightly. In
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other words, obviously he speaks to everyone
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in different ways. But for me, you know, usually
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it's like through coincidences, like my devotional
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will say one thing and then a friend will text
6:53
the same verse a few hours later and you just
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know it's from the Lord. Yeah, you know what
6:57
I'm talking about. Like Godwinks. Yeah, God winks.
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Exactly. And you've got to read my memoir because,
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I mean, I'm a lawyer, so I keep evidence receipts.
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I mean, I had my mom write down every time the
7:09
Lord spoke to me and I would just keep this journal.
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And I've got like 10 journals now over, you know,
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eight years. But the point is that three years,
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I went through so much anger, so much questioning.
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I mean, just in my heart, because you have to
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remember I'm on a bed, okay? And there came a
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point, I will tell you, and the Lord was encouraging
7:28
me, keep waiting, keep trusting. I mean, all
7:30
sorts of messages from the Lord. But there came
7:33
a point three years in where I felt. The Holy
7:36
Spirit say to me in his still soft voice the
7:39
word acceptance and then he followed up the following
7:42
few weeks Everywhere I turned it was always second
7:45
Corinthians 12 9. My grace is sufficient for
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you I'm gonna hold you through this but I am
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calling you to acceptance of this and you can
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imagine I mean how painful that was to hear frankly
7:57
just in the emotions of wait Lord I've been begging
8:01
you for deliverance my family. I mean, what do
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you mean? Like it was just a very difficult word
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because I wasn't raised in a prosperity gospel
8:09
church. Thank God, but I did have this sense
8:12
that well You know, if God loves you, he will
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heal you eventually. Like I didn't realize that,
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you know, I wasn't born with a disability. I,
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you know, I had never been sick my whole life.
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So I didn't realize God calls some of us to lifelong
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crosses. And yet it's right there in the Bible.
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I mean, you know, with Paul being one example,
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but anyway, so at that point, it was a wrestle
8:33
to get to surrender as far as the health went.
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I mean, cause I had already sort of given up
8:38
the career emotionally in my heart. I mean, it
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was You know, who cares about being a lawyer
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anymore? I want it to get off that bed. Now I
8:45
will say that at the same time, the Lord You
8:50
know, there came a point where he kind of called
8:52
me to start trying to sit up. It wasn't that
8:55
clear. I mean, I don't have to get into the details.
8:56
You can read my memoir, but it was clear to me
8:59
that I need to try walking again, but it would
9:02
not be a healing. So in other words, to this
9:04
day, whenever I sit up, the world starts spinning
9:07
harder around me. And it's just, again, it's
9:10
something to do with my ears. We have no idea
9:12
why, but I've stopped all the treatments because
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really they were making my body worse. There's
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a miraculous part of my story. Should I finish
9:20
that before we launch in or another how to do
9:22
it quickly bit? Okay Yeah, yeah, so hand us everything
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and then we'll pick it apart All right All right.
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I like this. It's like legal style. Give us your
9:31
argument then we'll okay So basically at that
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time when the Lord called me to acceptance, you
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know until eternity essentially which anyway,
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we can get into the theology of that later, but
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The Lord brought this man into my life out of
9:45
nowhere. Okay. You can't write this story up
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because I was very angry. I mean, I was like,
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I don't have perseverance anymore. I don't want
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to read a single devotional anymore. I was just,
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are you serious Lord? Like what, you know, after
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all these years, I mean, as a young 30 year old,
10:01
anyway, the point is, and I don't want to go
10:03
into a self pity party. I'm trying to give you
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a vision of the emotions because I think it's
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relatable and I think it can show people that
10:10
they're not the only one. The point is, this
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guy from my church, he was four years older than
10:15
me, he was a biochemical engineering PhD, the
10:18
most brilliant man I'd ever met, and simultaneously
10:21
the most Christ -like man I had ever met. We
10:23
were just acquaintances from church from years
10:25
before. And he was also our lay youth pastor,
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so he would make these devotionals for kids on
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YouTube with Batman, Lord of the Rings. He would
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make the Bible so relatable, these five minute
10:36
snippets for kids. And he was also a missionary
10:39
to Haiti. So this guy was like, I mean, haven't
10:42
met and he was also a cancer researcher. I mean,
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he was just brilliant. He calls my mom. He says,
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can I visit your daughter? Because honestly,
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she's been isolated in there. The church is praying
10:50
for her. What is happening? She needs a visitor.
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And you got to remember, this was during COVID.
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One of the years that I was strictly bedridden,
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it was COVID. So he comes in and he starts. visiting
11:02
me because I was, you know, we were desperate
11:04
at this, but I mean, I was talking to my pastors,
11:06
but I, anyway, it's, I won't get into all the
11:08
details, but the point is he starts visiting
11:10
me and giving me a theology of suffering and
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we quickly became, you know, good friends. He
11:15
would visit me once a week. I was on my bed and
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the plot twist is he had just been diagnosed
11:21
with stage four terminal cancer himself and his
11:24
entire ministry was one of encouraging other
11:27
sufferers because as a kid he had already gone
11:30
through a different kind of cancer, which the
11:32
Lord delivered him from, but that led him to
11:35
accept Christ. So now 25 years later, he was
11:38
just diagnosed again, and he's sitting next to
11:40
me with a chemo pump, and I'm bedridden in my
11:43
koala pajamas, and he's telling me, no, Laura,
11:45
you've got to persevere. Here are the different
11:47
reasons why the Lord allows suffering. Like this
11:50
is biblical. It's all over the New Testament,
11:52
just really kind of mentoring me. And I can't
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explain it to you guys, but over the course of
11:57
like the first eight visits, we literally realized
12:00
we were falling in love. And you've got to understand
12:03
the context. I mean, I had been single my whole
12:05
life. Matt had never had a girlfriend. He was
12:07
age, you know, 37. I was 34. I mean, you can't
12:11
write this stuff up. We prayed about it. We're
12:14
like, okay, are we really supposed to move forward
12:16
with this? And I will tell you the Lord wasn't
12:21
exactly crystal clear and I think he was testing
12:23
our hearts like will you trust me? You know sort
12:26
of like he kept giving me the word surrender
12:28
But then there came a point where he said I want
12:32
you to to take this gift of joy in your mutual
12:35
grief It was like a green light and we just knew
12:38
it was like, okay. All right. God is saying take
12:41
this joy in your grief And it was a miracle.
12:44
Somehow a year later, I got in a car, which by
12:47
the way, to this day, I can only do two car rides
12:49
a month because car rides cause me extreme pain.
12:52
But the point is I walked down that aisle at
12:54
a hotel, Matt's mom booked the hotel. I was the
12:57
bedridden bride, you know, and we got married
13:00
and it was the most amazing wedding with our
13:03
whole church community there. And our verse was
13:06
Isaiah 43 20, which says the Lord gives us streams
13:09
of refreshing water in our times of desert. suffering
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because you could see how he just plopped you
13:15
know he gave us to one another in the midst of
13:17
all these trials and long and short of it is
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Matt entered glory a year and three months after
13:23
the wedding so you can imagine me feeling like
13:27
Job after Matt's death just all the same bitterness
13:30
came up again and I was discouraged because I
13:33
had felt like I had had a measure of spiritual
13:35
growth as we were married it was the most beautiful
13:37
year we can get into it but the Lord Called me
13:41
to have joy in my grief after Matt died. He said
13:45
are you gonna forget everything? I taught you
13:47
through Matt. No, I want you to rejoice in this
13:50
I mean he was tender with me don't get me wrong
13:52
with walking me through the some of the grief
13:54
But he was also like no you have to choose to
13:58
bless my name and praise me even in this and
14:02
man Let me tell you it was given the type -a
14:05
personality and sort of you get a sense of who
14:07
I was years ago It was difficult and yet, and
14:11
I'm still, you know, on a journey, obviously,
14:13
no one's perfected before eternity, but I do
14:16
feel like I am more surrendered these last few
14:18
months. And the last thing I'll say, and then
14:20
I'll hand the mic to you guys, because I've talked
14:22
too long, is... The Lord called me to write a
14:26
book after Matt died. And I chose to write. And
14:29
so I wrote it literally on this bed with my laptop
14:31
on my knees, my mom bringing me snacks and my
14:34
head turning because my head spins even when
14:37
I'm bedridden. And I wrote this memoir and it's
14:40
called Singing Through Fire because I'm also
14:42
a jazz singer. And it's really a metaphorical,
14:44
it's metaphorical about, you know, can we have
14:47
joy in the fire? And it was basically my love
14:51
story and my testimony of how God never left
14:54
me this entire journey of suffering. It's been
14:56
eight years and I would not be a Christian today
14:59
if he had not been like that, you know, this
15:02
close to me intimately. I mean, Psalm 34 says
15:04
he is near to the brokenhearted and I am a class
15:07
A witness of this. This is why I wrote the book
15:09
and I pray that it would bless someone out there
15:11
today. That's an incredible story, and I'm very
15:15
sorry to hear about your affliction. I am sorry
15:18
to hear about the loss of your love of your life.
15:22
Thank you. I can't imagine having to go through
15:24
all of it. My wife and I do differ on the suffering
15:27
thoughts. You know, she believes that everyone
15:30
should be healed. Everyone should have. She's
15:32
the optimistic, faith -filled lover. I have the
15:34
gift of faith, and it drives them banana sandwich.
15:37
I believe for all the things. I have faith, but
15:39
it's not a calling. And so I have a gift of healing.
15:43
which mirrors her gift very well. However, I
15:46
also have had a word from the Lord that told
15:49
me that I was created to suffer for others, and
15:52
I have not suffered to the level that you guys
15:54
have. I count it as joy every time I'm hurt while
15:58
helping someone else, just because of that message.
16:01
I work in EMS, I'm an EMT. I count it as joy
16:05
when my back hurts or when my knees hurt and
16:09
I think about how I'm supposed to suffer so that
16:11
other people don't and I just and my wife does
16:14
not Agree with me. I'm sorry. What did you say
16:17
you have EMS? No. No, I am in EMS emergency medical
16:21
services I'm in EMT. I work on an ambulance.
16:25
Oh, that's so wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm
16:28
50 and so I'm I I don't want to brag, but I'm
16:31
going to. I run circles around a lot of the people
16:33
half my age. They don't make them like they used
16:36
to. They don't, no. Us Gen Xers are a tough read.
16:40
And I have bad knees. I'm coming down from being
16:43
overweight and I've lost 36 pounds. I'm doing
16:47
great. But my knees still hurt when I get out
16:49
of the back of a truck by the end of a 24 -hour
16:50
shift. And I look at it as nothing but joy because
16:54
I know that I'm supposed to suffer. And my wife,
16:57
it drives her banana sandwich. When I tell her
16:59
that she's like, well, let's pray for healing
17:00
I say go like I I mean if we heals it heals if
17:02
not, then I'll have a painful reminder that I
17:04
helped somebody And yeah her and I are different
17:07
on that aspect. So your story speaks to me Yeah,
17:11
but it screams against her spirit and I think
17:14
it helps demonstrate that god is not Singularly
17:19
focused on each and every one of us Being the
17:22
same that he is treating us all as the individuals
17:24
He created us as and some of us are created to
17:28
suffer We'd look at the the beggar outside of
17:30
the temple that Peter healed and he said, you
17:32
know gold and silver I don't have but what I
17:34
do have I freely give this man Jesus would have
17:37
walked past every single day on his way to the
17:39
temple But never healed him Right, right this
17:43
man Jesus would have seen because they said that
17:45
he was there every day everybody knew this man
17:47
and So in Jesus didn't heal him and why not?
17:51
Because it was for Peter to do it. It was for
17:54
someone else to do it. And so Some people never
17:57
receive a healing some people and I believe everyone
17:59
gets healed. It's just maybe not this side of
18:02
heaven Exactly. I know that you will have a new
18:04
body and know that you will be restored I know
18:06
that you will be running in poppy fields or whatever
18:08
it is Pale pink peonies or whatever, whatever
18:13
flower you like the most. I know that you'll
18:14
be there and I know that you'll feel the grass
18:16
between your toes and that you'll love it. I
18:18
just know that it's not for everybody on this
18:20
side. And I know it discourages people when they
18:23
think, well, we prayed for grandma and then she
18:25
passed away. So God doesn't care. I was like,
18:27
well, maybe he does. Cause now grandma's running
18:29
for the first time in 50 years. You know, and
18:32
so her and I, my wife and I, our perspectives
18:35
are a little different, but The ultimate end
18:38
of it is that the glory of Jesus, the glory of
18:40
God, the love of the kingdom, the grace, the
18:43
mercy, all of that, none of that changes. God
18:46
created us, created you, created my wife, myself,
18:50
to have a relationship with him. We're created
18:52
in his image, the spiritual image, not his physical
18:55
image, because he doesn't have one. He had to
18:57
make Jesus, so we had a physical image to look
18:59
at, so that we could be in a relationship with
19:01
him. He created us knowing that he wanted to
19:04
spend eternity with us. And I think our perspectives
19:08
on Earth are what helps shape what we're going
19:10
to be like in heaven. And he doesn't mean he
19:14
loves my wife more because she can walk. It doesn't
19:18
mean he loves you more because you can't walk.
19:22
None of that is a factor to him. At first, I
19:31
was just interested in the idea of saving money
19:34
on everyday wellness products I was already buying
19:36
anyway. But then I started noticing people I
19:39
personally know getting paid weekly from a membership
19:42
they were simply sharing with others. That's
19:44
what made me really pay attention. Because it's
19:47
not about stocking inventory, pressuring friends,
19:49
or chasing customers around. It's a membership
19:52
that gives people access to high quality products
19:54
at lower prices. And if you decide to share it,
19:57
there's a compensation side attached to it too.
20:00
After seeing real people get results from it
20:02
consistently, I realized this could genuinely
20:05
become a long -term income vehicle for the right
20:07
person. If you've been looking for something
20:09
simple that actually makes sense in today's economy,
20:12
you should at least take a look at why so many
20:14
people are paying attention to this right now.
20:17
The infos in our about section. I remember when
20:20
my son was younger, I've told this story many
20:22
times, and I carried him to bed one night. He
20:24
was like two and a half, three years old. And
20:26
I let him stay up. He had a strict bedtime, eight
20:28
o 'clock. It was like 10 .30. We let him stay
20:30
up watching a movie. And so I'm carrying him
20:31
up to bed. And I remember as I was rounding around
20:33
the hallway to the banister of the stairs, I
20:36
didn't remember if he was a good boy that day
20:38
or a bad boy. I don't remember if we had a good
20:40
day or a bad day. And none of that mattered because
20:43
I loved him so much that it was my joy and my
20:46
pleasure to carry him upstairs to bed, that it
20:49
didn't matter. It wasn't dependent on him. He
20:52
was dependent on my love for him. And this is
20:55
what God had showed me. And by the time I got
20:57
to the top of the steps, he reversed that thought
21:00
process on me and said, this is how I want you
21:02
to come to me. I don't want you to come to me
21:04
because I answered your prayer. I don't want
21:06
you to come to me because I healed you or I didn't
21:09
heal you. I want you to come to me because you
21:11
want me as your father. Oh, Intra, right. Exactly.
21:16
Yeah. Yeah. No, he speaks to me a lot in very
21:18
profound ways. And that was one of them. And
21:20
I love to share that. And I look at you, not
21:23
physically because I'm behind a microphone, but
21:25
I look at your story and I think of you and I
21:27
think how profoundly you must love him despite
21:30
what he hasn't done for you. And, you know, my
21:34
wife is different on cessationists. We're people
21:36
that don't believe in miracles anymore. And she's
21:38
like, these guys are banana sandwich. And I'm
21:40
like, I love them the most. They're like didn't
21:42
well, they're like doubting promise, you know
21:44
blessed it is the one who believes without saying
21:47
you believe because you have seen You know, it's
21:50
and so the people that haven't seen the miracles
21:52
but still live Jesus. I'm like you guys are amazing
21:55
I love you guys and she's a little different.
21:57
She thinks they're crazy because we've seen miracles
21:59
I'm like God doesn't run out of miracles. Right
22:02
and so it's just a perspective change, but God
22:05
hasn't changed in either one of those perspectives
22:07
Just how we view him Yeah, I mean you guys are
22:11
gonna find this fascinating So I cut I split
22:14
the baby like I actually land in the middle So
22:16
I very much believe and I don't mean this in
22:19
an insulting way to Shelley at all I mean, I
22:20
think I've expressed my views I absolutely believe
22:23
it is not God's will to heal everyone just by
22:26
virtue of all the things He's spoken to me through
22:28
the Holy Spirit and otherwise in my own suffering
22:31
I mean we're talking years of prayers and Matt
22:34
was the most faithful person I've ever met we
22:36
were we laid hands on him in hospice. He died.
22:39
I mean was waiting for miracles till the end
22:41
I mean the point is but I split the baby because
22:44
I actually I am a continuationist so I do believe
22:48
that the gifts are operating today I've heard
22:50
too many testimonies of miraculous healings but
22:53
unfortunately it hasn't happened for me because
22:57
my backstop is always whatever God's will is
23:00
and he's revealed that to me he doesn't reveal
23:03
it to everyone who has chronic pain many people
23:05
with chronic pain God ultimately does heal them
23:07
but the point is for I do believe some people
23:10
have the gift of healing sounds like Josh has
23:13
it But the point is I think it always God's will
23:16
is always the backstop because even Paul he could
23:19
have laid hands on Timothy Did he know he told
23:21
him to take wine for his frequent ailments, you
23:24
know, Paul clearly had the gift of healing He
23:26
was laying hands on people. So my point is I'm
23:28
kind of in the middle So I'm kind of like a unicorn
23:31
because you know, even though I'm like a Calvinist
23:34
for whom God's sovereignty is ultimate I do I'm
23:38
I depart from most reformed positions where I
23:41
do believe the gifts are operating You know,
23:42
I am seeking the gift of tongues. I mean I Paul
23:45
says desire the gifts So theologically, I think
23:48
we need balance and I kind of land somewhere
23:51
in the middle But I mean, I don't want to digress
23:53
but yeah, no, no, that's perfect. I don't think
23:55
that's really splitting the baby I think it's
23:57
just a unique perspective. I think yeah, that's
24:00
just you do believe but your belief also is that
24:04
it's not for everybody And the evidence is that
24:07
just because in my small circle, I've seen healings.
24:09
I've also seen people not healed in my small
24:12
circle. I've seen cancer take people. I've seen
24:16
I've seen ailments last and last and last. And
24:18
I've seen somebody walk away without hip pain
24:20
when I prayed for him one time. You know, I've
24:22
seen both of them. And if I took the perspective
24:25
that God heals everybody and then he doesn't,
24:27
then I'm thinking I did something wrong. I displeased
24:30
God. I didn't say the magic words the right way.
24:32
And I want to say to all our listeners that there
24:34
is no right way. There is no traditional, there
24:37
is no magic word. There is no proper way of saying,
24:39
oh, Father, I see you seated at the glory throne.
24:42
There is no way to, he's your father. We're knocking
24:45
on this door, like knock and he shall open it
24:47
for you, but we're already inside the house.
24:50
We don't need to bang on the door to get his
24:52
attention. We just need to walk up to him and
24:53
say, hey, Pop, this is what's going on. Talk
24:56
to him like he's your actual father. We don't
24:59
need magical ceremonial words. There is nothing
25:02
that's going to pull his heart string more. He's
25:04
not going to say, well, this Christian over here,
25:06
he talks to me a lot better than this Christian
25:07
over there. He doesn't do that. That's something
25:10
we do in our own minds. That's not the heart
25:12
of the father. And I also know that the heart
25:14
of the father says that I have a child. And I
25:17
know a plan for this child and this plan does
25:19
not include this for them in this moment, right?
25:23
Yeah, there's every single prayer. It's just
25:26
sometimes the answer is no Exactly, and that
25:30
blows people's minds because they think I asked
25:33
I asked and he's gonna give it to me. He's like,
25:35
well, no not always Yeah, no, I mean I couldn't
25:40
agree. I mean you're basically preaching to the
25:41
choir and I want to be very sensitive because
25:45
I don't want to, you know, and I know Shelley,
25:47
I hope you don't feel insulted or something.
25:49
This isn't like, cause I'm trying to be very
25:50
sensitive. She's lifted me for 16 years. She
25:52
knows. I mean, I just I genuinely don't believe
25:56
and I I'm saying this out of humility not to
25:59
insult your position I genuinely don't believe
26:02
that the opposing Viewpoint is biblical and i'm
26:05
not trying to insult you Shelly i'm saying it
26:08
from a place of pain because I have seen people
26:11
where you know, they are preached at that, you
26:14
know If you don't heal it's because of your lack
26:16
of faith and it leads them to just I mean i've
26:19
heard so many testimonies where people you know,
26:21
it leads them to leave the faith and it's frankly
26:24
just not biblical i don't understand this idea
26:28
i mean if anything the new testament says the
26:31
opposite i mean god told paul i will show him
26:34
how much he must suffer for my name jesus said
26:37
in this world you will have trouble but take
26:39
heart i have overcome the world paul said in
26:41
acts we must go through many hardships to enter
26:44
the kingdom of heaven jesus said take up your
26:46
cross and deny yourself lose your life to find
26:48
it i mean i'm not making this up these are all
26:51
jesus's words not mine. So when the people on
26:54
the other, and I'm not trying to create like,
26:56
you know, camps, you know, we're fighting each
26:58
other. We're all brothers and sisters. I just
27:00
don't understand how the theology holds weight,
27:03
you know, under scrutiny to what the Bible is
27:06
actually saying. Look, I was, you know, the first
27:09
person to tell you eight years ago, Oh, God is
27:11
good. Like, why wouldn't he heal everyone? But
27:14
when you're looking at the facts, you can't tell
27:17
me that Matt died of cancer because he didn't
27:20
have enough faith. Okay. I'm not going to sit
27:21
here bragging about my faith. I do believe I
27:24
have a lot of faith, and I know that's not the
27:26
reason I've been bedridden, because the Lord
27:28
has told me explicitly that my thorn in the flesh
27:31
is for His glory. Is He pruning me through all
27:34
this? Yes. Has He given me verses that suggest
27:37
that He is using this to test the genuineness
27:40
of my faith? Yes. It's all over the New Testament
27:42
as to why God allows trials. Read 1 Peter. I
27:45
mean, do not be surprised, my children, when
27:48
you suffer many trials, for this is to prove
27:50
the genuineness of your faith. It doesn't say
27:52
so that I can heal the others who have faith,
27:55
but you're the one who doesn't have faith. I
27:57
mean, I'm not trying to, you know, be on a soapbox
28:00
here. I'm trying to give a biblical case for
28:02
why I believe that it just cannot be the case
28:06
that those of us who are not healed, it's because
28:08
we don't have enough faith. And I believe that's
28:10
what the opposing position essentially argues.
28:12
Unless I'm wrong, Shelly, it would be great if
28:15
you could maybe give your position because I
28:17
think these issues are so important. I think
28:20
my faith plays a lot into it because like I can
28:23
accept that not everyone will be healed on this
28:25
side of heaven, but it's like really come on
28:28
God, you know, but I do see that there is purpose
28:32
in that because then you're able to encourage
28:35
others in the same position. And so that is powerful
28:38
in your ministry because you have that authenticity.
28:43
And so speaking from experience, it's just the
28:47
encouragement that you can give to others. in
28:49
that same situation is amazing. I was just going
28:53
to suggest and add that hearing your testimony,
28:58
however many people are going to be tuning in
29:01
across however many different countries, someone
29:03
is going to hear this that is suffering and think
29:06
that God has abandoned them and might have new
29:09
hope knowing that maybe that's just not what's
29:11
going on. that God has a different plan for them
29:14
that involves them to be where they are as they
29:16
are and not in a healed form that they desire.
29:19
There's a deep work going on, too, in that process,
29:23
too. Yeah. We were at a Pentecostal church once,
29:26
and they're very much into speaking in tongues.
29:29
Like, everybody has a gift of speaking in tongues.
29:30
And I'm like, well, that's not biblical. It says
29:33
they'll give one gift to one person, another
29:34
gift to another, and two others will get riskier.
29:36
But not everybody gets the gift of tongues. It
29:38
doesn't say everybody gets it. And so I started
29:41
looking around thinking, if you don't have the
29:42
gift of tongues, are you thinking that Jesus
29:44
doesn't love you? Are you looking around everybody
29:47
and thinking like, I can't speak in tongues,
29:48
so clearly I don't have the Holy Spirit. And
29:51
I love Pentecostals, don't get me wrong. I love
29:53
everybody. I just don't like that you could possibly
29:57
be ostracizing somebody without knowing it. Oh,
30:02
absolutely. And so I say the same for the suffering.
30:05
You know, when we say that God wants to heal
30:06
everybody and you're like, well, he's not healing
30:08
me, so he must not love me. You know, I don't
30:11
want to ostracize somebody and think that, no,
30:13
no, God loves you. If you were the only person
30:15
on the earth, he would have died for you. And
30:18
that means that you would have had to been the
30:19
one to kill him and he still would have done
30:21
it for you. Exactly. Yeah. And you suffering
30:24
isn't because you made him angry. This isn't
30:26
punishment. God doesn't do that. So if you're
30:28
out there and you think that you are suffering
30:30
because God is mad at you, that you did something
30:33
wrong, you said the F word in traffic. This is
30:36
not true. This was 100 not true. That is a lie
30:39
from the enemy Yeah, you are not suffering for
30:41
anything that you did to dishonor god Because
30:44
you were born dishonoring him and he made a way
30:47
to salvage you and as soon as you took jesus
30:49
as your savior All of those things are never
30:52
counted against you never Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
30:55
I mean, look at John 9 .3. The disciples asked
30:58
Jesus, is this man born blind because of his
31:01
sin or his parents' sin? And Jesus said, no,
31:03
this man was born blind in order to show the
31:06
works of God, aka the glory of God. And so there
31:09
is something Paul said, we glory in our sufferings.
31:13
I mean, is it Romans five, three? I mean, literally
31:15
suffering creates perseverance, perseverance,
31:17
character and character hope. And so I don't
31:20
think faith really has any, you know, with all
31:22
due respect, because I know Shelley's on the
31:24
opposite side, but I just, you know, I'm glad
31:26
we can laugh about it. And this is important
31:28
because I've had people who just. point blank
31:31
refused to debate with me online. And I think
31:34
as brothers and sisters in Christ, we have to
31:36
understand each other's viewpoint, or at least
31:38
be willing to have conversations. And you can
31:40
tell I'm very passionate about this because I'm
31:43
literally in the middle of the fire. I mean,
31:45
if I didn't have, and I'm not trying to defend
31:47
my faith. I know Shelly's not saying, you know,
31:50
I'm saying if I didn't have faith, I would have
31:52
left Christianity a long time ago. And if you
31:54
look at Joni Erikson Tata's testimony, she, everyone
31:57
knows Joni. She's, she's been a paraplegia. for
32:00
50 years and she one time you know a man walked
32:03
up to her and said if you had more faith you
32:05
would get out of that wheelchair and and she
32:07
said to him It takes more faith, and I'm sorry,
32:11
I shouldn't laugh, but it's just kind of comical
32:13
to me. She said that it takes more faith to believe
32:16
that God is good and sustaining me by his power
32:19
in this wheelchair than it does to believe that
32:21
he could snap his fingers. And trust me, she
32:24
is someone who does believe God could snap his
32:26
fingers, that there comes a point where if the
32:28
Lord reveals his will for your life, you know,
32:30
what are you going to do? We have to surrender.
32:33
I mean, Jesus lived a life of pure surrender.
32:36
I mean, it's not my will, but thine. be done.
32:39
And so I think the reason the people really,
32:41
you know, kind of rift against this idea of,
32:44
no, God wants to heal everyone. Of course he
32:46
does because he's loving, but we have to look
32:49
at what the Bible actually says. I mean, even
32:51
look at Job. Job was the most righteous man and
32:54
he suffered with boils. And we see behind the
32:57
scenes at the beginning of the book of Job where
32:59
it's clear that he's not suffering because of
33:01
his sin. He's suffering because, you know, God
33:03
is doing things, you know, Satan wanted to tempt
33:06
him and whatever. into the details, but there's
33:09
just too many biblical examples. Look at the
33:11
martyrs. I mean, they all were persecuted and
33:14
killed for their faith. So Christianity is not
33:16
a faith where, oh, you know, it's all about our
33:19
good works. Do you have enough faith? Do you
33:21
measure up? Do you this? Do you that? I think
33:24
it's so important that people understand that
33:27
God loves them and has a plan and a purpose for
33:29
their lives. Regardless, you understand what
33:32
I'm saying. Yeah, faith in God isn't what creates
33:34
the miracles. God is what creates them. Yes,
33:37
exactly. There's a Scottish pastor named Alistair
33:41
Begg, and he tells a story about the man on the
33:45
middle cross and the thieves. What are you doing
33:49
here? Do you know the doctrine of faith? Do you
33:50
know the doctrine of this, the doctrine of that?
33:52
He's like, I don't know any of that. This is
33:54
by what right do you have to be here? He says,
33:56
well, the man on the middle cross said I could
33:57
come. Right not because of anything he did but
34:00
because you know the thief did but everything
34:02
because yeah Jesus did because he said so not
34:06
because I did anything but because he said so
34:10
And I think that's very important to think of
34:12
including faith like I could have the gift of
34:14
faith like my wife And it's not gonna change
34:16
how Jesus loves her or I can have the gift of
34:19
healing it and and I have faith it's just not
34:21
a gift of faith and It's not gonna say he's not
34:23
gonna look at me like he'd do better You know,
34:27
he's not looking at me disdainfully as if somehow
34:30
I'm messing up. He's looking at me and he says,
34:32
man, there's my son. I love him. He's broken.
34:35
He has neurological disorders with ADHD because
34:39
I made him that way. And he has an inability
34:43
to do things that other of my children can do.
34:46
But it doesn't mean I love him any less. It doesn't
34:48
mean I'm judging him based off of his inadequacies.
34:51
Right. I'm judging him correctly. He has chosen
34:55
to accept me as his savior. All the other stuff
34:58
is fluffing nonsense. I don't care about all
35:00
that stuff. Yeah. I just want his heart and I
35:03
have it. And yeah, I think that's what's important.
35:05
It doesn't matter what other people their faith
35:09
is. Their faith is important to believe in Jesus,
35:12
but their faith isn't what powers their salvation.
35:15
Exactly. Yeah, it's all because of what Jesus
35:18
did for us. Yeah. I had a headache for four straight
35:24
days. It got so bad, I was basically bedridden.
35:28
That's when I tried the X39 patch for the first
35:31
time. And within a short time, I noticed a difference
35:34
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35:41
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35:43
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patch designed to support your body's natural
35:49
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trying X39, check out our link in the about section
35:54
and finally look into it for yourself. And honestly
35:57
like even on you know where I don't know what
36:00
churches say this but the whole idea that oh
36:02
you don't have enough faith so you're not being
36:04
healed it's like a I wouldn't be praying if I
36:07
didn't have faith but B it's like Jesus said
36:10
that even a mustard seed of faith is enough to
36:12
move mountains or whatever I hope I'm quoting
36:14
the verse right I can't remember what the end
36:15
of the verse is but like even a mustard seed
36:17
is enough so again just logically that path of
36:21
reasoning doesn't you can tell my legal mind
36:23
that's always like analyzing just based on but
36:25
anyway I Yeah, I completely agree. And I do want
36:28
to say one more thing. Like, when Matt was first
36:31
diagnosed, okay, with cancer, the sermon series
36:35
at our church was on Genesis 50. And, you know,
36:38
remember, Matt was the lay youth pastor, but
36:40
our main pastor was preaching on Genesis 50 -20.
36:44
And what's that verse? How Joseph's suffering
36:46
led to the salvation of many. It says what Satan
36:49
intended for evil, God intended for good. So
36:52
God was sovereign over the suffering. He had
36:54
planned the suffering. He had ordained the suffering.
36:57
Why? To lead to many people's salvation. And
37:00
so Matt wrote this Facebook post saying, oh man,
37:03
it seems like God or this is great. God ordained
37:05
this for our church to study the week of my diagnosis
37:08
because you know, God is showing us he's gonna
37:10
pull good out of the evil of my cancer. He has
37:12
a plan for this, a purpose for this. And the
37:15
healing, you know, the people who claim that,
37:17
you know, God always heals everyone. I don't
37:19
think they allow for that in terms of, no, God
37:22
has a purpose for this. And so the day that Matt
37:25
died, my, you know, I'm bawling in bed, whatever.
37:29
I opened my daily devotional and guess what the
37:31
daily verse is Genesis 50 20. And it told me
37:34
it's the message of the day was, you know, what
37:37
Satan intends for evil, God intends for good.
37:39
And you got to remember we were praying up through
37:43
hospice. I mean, We were singing worship songs.
37:45
The pastors laid hands on him. I mean, we were
37:48
praying for miracles. And yet God told me the
37:50
day he died that this was my will. My child,
37:53
I am comforting you take courage in this. I mean,
37:56
so no one can tell me that, you know, Matt didn't
37:59
have enough faith. This is why, I mean, it was
38:01
just the Lord's will. And I say that with all
38:04
due respect, but I'm just giving you my testimony
38:07
of how God has spoken to me through all these
38:09
trials. I was thinking of Romans 828 before you
38:13
mentioned that. So God is working all things
38:16
for good. Even if you're in a situation, look
38:18
for the good in it because then you'll get to
38:20
see more good and more good. And it's that, the
38:24
RES, the Recticular Activating System, that neuroscience
38:28
is catching up to Jesus. And so what you focus
38:31
on grows. And so just, you know, it may be discouraged,
38:35
but look at the good for it. So that's my short.
38:40
Well, blurb. So what would you say is your anchor
38:45
verse that gets you through your everyday life
38:48
after eight years of debilitating neurological
38:51
disorder? That's a beautiful question after God
38:55
called me to acceptance of this illness four
38:58
years ago He gave me a very specific verse which
39:00
is now my life verse and it is second Corinthians
39:04
417 Which says our light and momentary afflictions
39:08
are achieving for us an eternal weight of glory
39:12
that far outweighs them all So you can see how
39:16
the Lord ministered to me because I was saying
39:18
why why won't you heal me Lord? And he basically
39:22
spoke into my heart and he said my daughter This
39:24
is my will because I am using these trials for
39:27
your eternal glory You know, we don't really
39:30
understand it Remember the next verse says that
39:32
we look to things unseen like we don't know what
39:35
it is But we know that in the gospel pattern
39:38
just like Jesus's cross led to his glory the
39:41
same is true for us So I mean this verse is just
39:44
Jesus's kingdom is upside down in every single
39:47
respect. So, I mean, why would suffering be any
39:51
different? Our suffering creates our eternal
39:53
glory. It's all over the New Testament. God gets
39:56
glory through our sufferings. Look at Paul where
39:59
he said, God told him in 2 Corinthians 12, 9,
40:02
my grace is sufficient for you for my power is
40:05
made perfect in your weakness. I mean, so this
40:08
is really a word I would give to someone out
40:10
there today who's just struggling, doesn't understand
40:13
why. Why, Lord, why do you allow this? I just
40:17
want to give you this verse as an encouragement
40:19
today. Beautiful. I hope everyone can feel the
40:23
Holy Spirit listening to this because I'm in
40:25
tears. Yeah, no, she does that when the Holy
40:29
Spirit's hitting her. I felt it earlier, but
40:31
I didn't have the tears earlier. I just love
40:33
it. I don't do it because men don't cry. Except,
40:37
except Jesus, he wept. That was in the Bible.
40:40
It's actually what I encourage other men to cry
40:42
with, is like, don't be, don't be afraid to.
40:44
Like Jesus wept and he was the man's man, you
40:46
know. Oh man, we needed comedy there. That was
40:49
like a welcome relief. I feel like I've been
40:51
fired up as you can tell. And so that joke was
40:55
very welcome. You're welcome. It's, it's pretty
40:57
much the way I roll. It's how God created me.
41:00
I apologize for nothing. I'll be crying. He'll
41:02
make me laugh. Like, thanks. I have my moments.
41:07
I really appreciate your strength in all of this.
41:11
I appreciate that your stance mirrors my own.
41:15
I appreciate how respectful you are and delicate
41:18
despite my wife not sharing the same views. And
41:21
I also appreciate the conversation we've had
41:23
that illustrates that there are different views,
41:26
but it's still one God. And it doesn't matter
41:30
what your view is, my view is, my wife's view
41:32
is because... God still saved each and every
41:35
one of us through his son, Jesus Christ. And
41:38
I believe that that is the most important part
41:42
of the message, not whether I suffer for others,
41:45
whether you suffer alone, whether my wife believes
41:48
that people suffering should never suffer because
41:51
God will heal everybody is irrelevant compared
41:53
to how much God loves each and every one of us.
41:57
Yeah, absolutely. It's something I had heard
41:59
before. I forget the name of the pastor that
42:02
said it, but he said if Jesus was back today,
42:05
there would still be two churches and it'd be
42:07
the muddites and the anti muddites. You know,
42:09
the people that believe he heals by putting mud
42:10
in people's eyes and believe he doesn't because
42:13
he did both. And so, you know, even if he was
42:16
around right now and we could witness him with
42:18
all the technology, all the YouTube videos, everything,
42:21
we would still be split on how we love him and
42:24
believe in him with him right in our midst. I
42:27
agree with you. We all have blind spots. I mean,
42:29
God is beyond understanding. From my point of
42:33
view, all we can do is we've got the Word of
42:35
God and we have to go from there. But yeah, I
42:38
agree with you that we're all going to get to
42:40
eternity and there's going to be probably so
42:41
many things where God is going to reveal like,
42:44
all right, your theology was wrong on that, Laura,
42:46
your theology was wrong on that, Shelley. I mean,
42:49
in other words, like, we're not God. I mean,
42:51
he's going to tell me I was perfect. He's going
42:52
to be like, man, you were the best listener there
42:55
ever was. I wish you would have paid attention
42:57
to your own advice. Oftentimes, I am saying,
43:02
yeah, you were right to Josh. I hate him. Always
43:05
after the fact. Incredible. I'll tell you an
43:08
example offline. Thank you so much for just being
43:14
open and vulnerable with us. It can't be easy
43:16
to share about your loss, personal loss, your
43:19
professional loss, your personal loss, your love
43:21
loss. It cannot be easy to share that. And I
43:25
thank you so much for your faith that you are
43:28
Dedicated and that you love Jesus as much as
43:30
you do despite what people like my wife would
43:33
say I Really? I do appreciate hearing I appreciate
43:38
that our listeners get to have a perspective
43:40
that Sometimes God has a different plan for them
43:43
that sometimes it isn't about healing Sometimes
43:46
it's a different kind of journey and I also want
43:49
to encourage you that doesn't mean that he's
43:50
not gonna heal you specifically listener It's
43:54
just maybe right maybe not right now Right, maybe
43:58
it's not right now. Maybe eight years from now.
44:00
Maybe two weeks from now Maybe when you enter
44:02
into the kingdom of heaven, I can't answer those
44:05
questions. I don't know I had to wait 17 years
44:08
So for my chronic neck and shoulder pain to be
44:10
gone I was in tears the last day and I told Josh
44:13
you got to pray and that was the first miracle
44:15
we saw So I was healed of that but it took 17
44:18
years, but I wasn't expecting it, but I was still
44:20
praying for it So like it also took four tries
44:23
It didn't immediately healed, it moved. Well,
44:26
I got a headache in the back of my head, and
44:28
I was like, oh, that's weird, because I didn't
44:29
usually get headaches. And then he's like, all
44:31
right, we're going to pray again. And it was
44:33
as simple as, shall we be healed? And he's like,
44:36
how do you feel? And the headache moved again,
44:39
closer to my forehead, and then. couple more
44:41
times, and then the headache was gone after it
44:44
moved. It was a thing, but we were persistent,
44:46
and it was the first miracle we saw, so it was...
44:48
Yeah, and there was nothing fancy. There was
44:50
no oil, there was no holy water, there was no
44:53
magical words, there was no... But I was surrendered.
44:56
I got nothing left, because the pills and pot
44:59
weren't helping at all. Nothing was... I don't
45:03
do any of that anymore, but yeah. But you never
45:06
know, so... It's like me just be hopeful and
45:09
you could be like me where you are called to
45:12
glorious suffering for others And so it's your
45:15
journey let your light shine and take joy in
45:17
it Take joy in everything the Lord does for you
45:20
because if I suffer for somebody else, then he
45:23
must really want somebody else And he already
45:26
has me. He knows i'm not going anywhere He go
45:29
him and I've had that talk many a time And so
45:32
if he needs to break me, so somebody else can
45:35
see me broken and serving him in order for them
45:37
to serve him, then break me. I'm tough. I'm tough.
45:41
I can take it until I can't. And then I have
45:43
my wife to lean on. Yeah. Oh, thank you so much,
45:47
Laura, for being here with us. And I love that.
45:49
Thank you. Now, part of your ministry, before
45:52
we wrap this up, is you have the podcast. So
45:54
share about that. I would love to share so people
45:57
can find my book if you're interested on, you
46:00
know, not, this isn't honestly, you can tell
46:02
I didn't write the book for money. I mean, I'm
46:03
literally bedridden. It's really just my testimony
46:06
and it's a really sweet romantic love story.
46:09
I heard it's a little comedy too. It's yeah,
46:11
it's pretty funny because I'm actually a comedian.
46:14
I mean, I grew up doing musical theater and I,
46:16
after Matt died, I started doing Armenian comedy
46:19
reels on Instagram because the Lord told me to,
46:21
you know, get back on the joy train. And it was
46:24
like, I just processed my grief through doing
46:26
comedy and - Armenian comedy. Yeah, exactly.
46:29
Like, you know, because I'm Armenian, so I did
46:31
cultural comedy, you know, teasing grandmas,
46:33
teasing young kids, you know, it's like food
46:35
culture, whatever. Perfect. But yeah, how specific
46:38
it is. Yeah, and so you can see like God, I mean,
46:43
it's not that he doesn't tolerate our grief.
46:44
He walks us through our grief, but he really
46:46
with me, he was tough with me to say, nope, we're
46:49
not going to stay in the bitterness. We're going
46:51
to turn, turn. We're going to rejoice always
46:53
as Paul says, sorrowful, but rejoicing. But anyway,
46:56
you can, so I wrote my book in quite a comical
46:58
fashion and it helps people get through the suffering
47:01
because you know, I'm portraying a lot of suffering,
47:03
but It's really a romantic love story and how,
47:06
I mean, anyway, you heard my testimony. So you
47:08
can find my book on Amazon and also my website,
47:11
which is larasilverman .com, L -A -R -A, silverman
47:14
.com. And I also host the Singing Through Fire
47:17
podcast, literally from my bedroom. My parents
47:20
helped me create a little studio here where I
47:23
sit up as much as I can and I interview my own
47:25
guests. And every single person I interview is
47:28
someone who has walked through severe suffering.
47:32
And I give a lot of my own devotional lectures
47:34
on, you know, everything that God has told me.
47:36
You can find that podcast on, you know, all podcast
47:39
platforms. And I have a YouTube channel called
47:42
The Silverman Show where I host the podcast.
47:44
It's called the singing through fire podcast.
47:47
So thank you so much for giving me the opportunity
47:50
to share my story today And thank you Josh for
47:52
encouraging me about my faith. It's all the Lord's
47:55
sustaining me I would not be a Christian today
47:57
if he had not upheld my faith. I believe that
48:00
firmly It's him doing it not me. So thank you
48:03
so much awesome I hope this has been a blessing
48:07
to our listeners as much as me. I love this conversation.
48:11
And if you would love to partner with us, we
48:13
would love that. We have some links that you
48:15
can click on if you want to help support the
48:17
show and help us get these messages out to more
48:20
people and win more souls for the kingdom and
48:22
just keep encouraging others. Before you go,
48:27
if this episode encouraged you or made you think
48:30
of someone in your life, share it with them.
48:32
You never know how God might use one story at
48:35
the right moment. Thanks for spending this time
48:37
with us today. And don't forget, God is always
48:40
working, miracles still happen, and your story
48:42
matters too. We'll talk to you next week.