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The Trust Mistakes That Can Cost Families Later · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: how are you today?
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you? I am great?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you what he have for us.
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  Speaker 3: For June and still feels like winter. I know it,
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  Speaker 3: but whatever very disconcerting. I'll move on I've moved on.
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  Speaker 2: Are you taking us to a warm place at least?
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  Speaker 3: Not really. We're going to go to DC where we
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  Speaker 3: have an appellate court case there where basically transfers from
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  Speaker 3: an irrevocable trust to the beneficiary are subject to And
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  Speaker 3: this is a state issue. El it's the district of Columbia,
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  Speaker 3: but call it a state for our discussion. It's a
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  Speaker 3: local transfer and like recording tax that they have. Oh,
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  Speaker 3: and this is not really a federal issue. It's more
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  Speaker 3: of a local issue. But I think what it's going
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  Speaker 3: to show us is how one irrevocable trust work. And
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  Speaker 3: then we're going to talk about how these irrevocable trusts
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  Speaker 3: work when you pick them from a gift, estate and
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  Speaker 3: income tax standpoint. Good, because they're all different, and I
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  Speaker 3: think you really need to understand how these irrevocable trusts,
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  Speaker 3: and there's so many of them and they're different work.
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  Speaker 3: Then we're going to go again, not someplace very warm,
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  Speaker 3: but PA. We're going to go to a Pennsylvania pellate
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  Speaker 3: court case here where I'm just simply going to say
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  Speaker 3: it like this, don't try applying for medicaid on your own.
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  Speaker 3: This case is all about a situation where an individual
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  Speaker 3: went into a nursing home, had the daughter help pretty
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  Speaker 3: much prepare the application and didn't even give the information requested.
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  Speaker 3: The additional requested information she never provided, and she's wondering
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  Speaker 3: why she might get denied. So, folks, we're going to
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  Speaker 3: learn how the medicaid application process works in this case
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  Speaker 3: and to tell you how not to do it. But
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  Speaker 3: it's also while it is June, it's a new guide
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  Speaker 3: and it's an updated guide as well, because it has
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  Speaker 3: the top we've given away guides dealing with estate planning trust.
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  Speaker 3: We're demystifying the top seven, but now it's the top eight,
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: so there's more. There's a new one. So these are
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  Speaker 3: the top eight trust that we talk about. They are
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  Speaker 3: from things like Nominee realty trusts, which are not really
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  Speaker 3: trust at all. So I'm not sure why the word
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  Speaker 3: trust is even in the name. Regular revocable trust Medicaid
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  Speaker 3: irrevocable life insurance. Such a tough topic, right, life insurance
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  Speaker 3: trusts first to die, second to die varieties. What if
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  Speaker 3: you got a special needs child, you got a special
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: needs trust? What about pooled trusts? Right? Those are interesting
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  Speaker 3: for Medicaid purposes. Sole benefit trust. Folks, if you haven't
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: done your estate planning, this is certainly going to give
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: you a wealth of information as to what kind of
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: planning might be right for you. So please call and
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  Speaker 3: get it eight six six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 3: nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com again eight
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  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
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  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com. Download it there, and you
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  Speaker 3: can always go to Cushing, Dole and PC for our
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  Speaker 3: Instagram page for more information. Okay, DC off and running.
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  Speaker 3: So Milton's father creates an irrevocable trust. The primary beneficiary
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  Speaker 3: is Milton. Okay, makes sense. The trustee was a trust
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  Speaker 3: company in two thousand and seven. Of course, they didn't
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  Speaker 3: tell us what kind of irrevocable trust this is yet,
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  Speaker 3: so keep that in mind. Two thousand and seven, the
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  Speaker 3: trustee purchases real estate in Washington, d C. So that
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  Speaker 3: makes me think that there was money in the trust,
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  Speaker 3: but we'll just keep going. Twenty twenty one, the irrevocable
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  Speaker 3: trust is dissolved, okay, and the property was transferred out
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  Speaker 3: for no consideration to Milton. Well, maybe he was the beneficiary.
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  Speaker 3: Milton did pay transfer and recording taxes to DC in
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  Speaker 3: the amount of fifty three thousand dollars. Wow, so this
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  Speaker 3: isn't This must either there's a lot of tax rates
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  Speaker 3: in d C or it was a really valuable piece
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  Speaker 3: of property. Milton then seeks a refund, which, of course,
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  Speaker 3: he was denied. Well, the Superior Court said Grant District
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  Speaker 3: of Columbia summary Judgment, stating that the twenty twenty one
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  Speaker 3: deed was subject to taxation because the trust was a
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  Speaker 3: legally distinct and separate entity from Milton, and taxes are
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  Speaker 3: imposed on each change in legal entity owning real property
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  Speaker 3: in DC. Remember, not federal folks yah their own little
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  Speaker 3: countries DC. Well, Milton appealed, saying that the deeds exempt
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  Speaker 3: because it was a supplemental deed modifying a prior recorded
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  Speaker 3: deed without consideration. I'm not going to get into what
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  Speaker 3: all that means, because the appellate court simply said no,
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  Speaker 3: We're going to affirm the Superior Court stating that the
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  Speaker 3: transfer from the irrevocable trust to Milton was a conveyance
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  Speaker 3: between two distinct entities, not a supplemental deed, and not
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  Speaker 3: exempt from DC taxation, which is probably right. I don't
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  Speaker 3: know the DC law.
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  Speaker 2: But I think they do the same thing in New Hampshire,
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  Speaker 2: don't they for some irrevocable trusts.
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  Speaker 3: I think I don't think it's trust. They did it
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  Speaker 3: for LLC's for a while. You transfer property in and
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  Speaker 3: out of an LLC, there's there's a tax and I'm
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  Speaker 3: not even sure that still exists, but I do remember that, Susan.
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  Speaker 3: So what are we learning? Here's what's the issue? Well,
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  Speaker 3: first thing we need to figure out is that this
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  Speaker 3: is a state tax issue, not federal. And let's explore
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  Speaker 3: the different you know, income gift in a state taxes
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  Speaker 3: associated with many different irrevocable trusts. So you have to
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  Speaker 3: think about all of these issues when you're picking the
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  Speaker 3: kind of irrevocable trust and why you're doing it right,
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  Speaker 3: there's different reasons. So here, if this was a completed gift,
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  Speaker 3: then a gift tax might be due, but I'm not sure.
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  Speaker 3: But if it was completed, then Dad would have been
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  Speaker 3: subject to gift tax, and if so, this would have
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  Speaker 3: been outside of Dad's estate for state tax purposes. So
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  Speaker 3: if there's a completed gift, then it's not included in
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  Speaker 3: the donors estate. That's good.
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  Speaker 2: So it could have been like an irrevocable gifting trust exactly.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, that's a good point, and so or a slat,
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  Speaker 3: it could have been outside of the trust. So that
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  Speaker 3: would mean less estate taxes due for Milton to pay
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  Speaker 3: when Dad dies got it. Well, that's good, could be
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  Speaker 3: good depending on the size of the estate. However, Dad
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  Speaker 3: could have had gift taxes, which we said. Now this
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  Speaker 3: trust was probably funded with money. Now I'm wondering if
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  Speaker 3: it was funded with money because it actually purchased property. Therefore,
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  Speaker 3: we need to think about basis. So the basis for
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  Speaker 3: the capital gains tax is what the trust paid for
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  Speaker 3: the property. So if Milton put money in the trust
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  Speaker 3: and then the trust bought the property, that's the basis.
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  Speaker 2: And I think you said it was pretty close to
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  Speaker 2: the time that it was transferred out.
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  Speaker 3: It was no the trust purchased the property or in
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  Speaker 3: two thousand and seven. Oh yeah, he didn't die until
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  Speaker 3: two thousand. He didn't transfer it out until twenty twenty one. Yeah, okay,
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  Speaker 3: So we've got to think about the capital gains here.
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  Speaker 3: And again, if it was a completed gift, if he
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  Speaker 3: had funded the trust with the real estate, well then
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  Speaker 3: it would have been a carryover basis. If it was
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  Speaker 3: a gift and the basis could be way lower. It
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  Speaker 3: would have been the basis in the hands of Milton's dad,
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  Speaker 3: So you got to keep that in mind. Right, what
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  Speaker 3: am I transferring? Is it a completed gift and how
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  Speaker 3: does it impact basis carry over or not? So now,
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  Speaker 3: if it was placed in a Medicaid irrevocable trust, then
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  Speaker 3: at dad's death, Milton would have gotten a step up
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  Speaker 3: in basis because irrevocable Medicaid trusts, even though they're irrevocable,
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  Speaker 3: are incomplete gifts for gift tax purposes. Wonderful, So that
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  Speaker 3: avoids gift tax and it's included in Dad's estate. However,
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  Speaker 3: it is subject to a state tax when Dad died,
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  Speaker 3: So you got to think about again what kind of
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  Speaker 3: trust we're doing and why. But again that's not always
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  Speaker 3: a problem. So when you're considering doing these gifts, you
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  Speaker 3: need to take a look at the size of the estate. See,
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  Speaker 3: are we trying to make it a completed gift? Do
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  Speaker 3: we want inclusion? Is it going to be an incomplete gift?
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  Speaker 3: Are we trying to protect it from creditors? What is
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  Speaker 3: our objective when doing this?
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  Speaker 2: It's a big Rubik's cube because you don't realize taking
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  Speaker 2: one action until later you're like, uh, oh, I screwed up.
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  Speaker 2: I mean I created a bigger tax than I needed
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  Speaker 2: to by doing this action.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you absolutely could. So you know, I think some
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  Speaker 3: of the issues you have here to think about is
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  Speaker 3: and if I had done like a medicaid irrevocable trust,
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  Speaker 3: it's very possible that we could have transferred the asset
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  Speaker 3: in incomplete gift for gift tax purposes. Okay, no tax
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  Speaker 3: inclusion in the estate step up in basis, and the
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  Speaker 3: inclusion might be set up if you've done your estate
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  Speaker 3: planning right that you also have no estate taxes and
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  Speaker 3: when Milton sells, no capital gain taxes. So that could
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  Speaker 3: actually be a triple win if you do that loss
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  Speaker 3: if you do it wrong. You got to really understand
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  Speaker 3: these trust folks, And that's part of this guide, right.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: One of these trusts in the guide is, you know,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: gifting trusts, irrevocable life insurance trusts. Call get the guide
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor the Armstrong Advisory Group, and
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  Speaker 2: firm of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation.
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  Speaker 3: Where we headed now, Todd, We're going to head over
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: to Pennsylvania. We've got a PA appelled court case. Is
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: really it's funny they had to go to court for this,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: but you could probably avoid it by just don't apply
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: for medicaid on your own. How many times you try
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: this at home? Yeah, this is We're trained professionals operating
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: without a net. All right. So Richard Kimmel, not to
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: be confused with Jimmy no relation, resides in a skilled
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: nursing home. He applied for Medicaid assistance, well kind of,
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: he applied. He designated his daughter. Now I don't know
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: if he was completely competent or not, but he might
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: have been. But he designated his daughter KR. We'll call
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: her as his representative to provide any needed information to
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: the state and in essence, basically help him take him
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: through the Medicaid app application process. Okay, it happens all
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: the time. She should have picked up the phone and
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: called a lawyer at that point. Okay, Dad, I'll help you.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: I'm going to help you by getting a lawyer. Help
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: me help you. So Richard's application was denied shocker. Why
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: because it did not provide the county with the additional
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: information it requested after the initial application was filed. That
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: happens all the time. Sure, Richard appealed, and following the
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: hearing before an administrative law judge, the administrative law judge
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: agreed that upon receipt of the requested information, the county
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: would reconsider the application. However, if it is not provided
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: by the due date, the new due date, Richard's original
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: denial will stand.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Because you only have like thirty days right when they
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: do the ping pong.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: We're going to get to that. So that was the decision.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: So now basically KR has an opportunity. We're going to
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: give you a chance. Well, KR decided to provide a
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: narrative response to the information request. But while she said
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: a lot, she did not provide any receipts, any bank statements,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: any brokerage statements, et cetera that was actually requested by
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: the due date. So the application was denied. Of course,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: what do you expect. This is not rocket science, can
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: not be a surprise to her. So then KR appeals.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: She goes to the State Board of Hearings, they go
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: to appeal that again, then they go a motion to reconsider.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Then she goes all the way up to the appellate court.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: I mean this goes on and on and finally, and
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: in all of these cases, just to make a long
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: story short, you're denied because you failed to provide information timely.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: So at the end of the day, you're denied.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It's a pretty clear list of requests that they asked for.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: We're not asking for a lot. Give me these things.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And you'll be good right if you do nothing.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Instead, she gave a narrative. You don't know what she said,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: and I'd love to know what the narrative was.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Yet, Court, I'm a nice person.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: So folks, this is not what you want to do.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Medicaid sneaks up on us. People go in nursing homes unexpectedly,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: sometimes all the time. Just reach out, call somebody, call
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: an elder law attorney, and figure out how to apply,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: because there's so many little nuances that you're not going
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: to know on your own.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Someone that does this all the time.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And nursing home is not going to help you. No,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: they'll say they will, it's white's free. They'll say they will.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: They'll say, use up all of your money and then
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: will help you do the application once you've spent down
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: that half a million.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: That's exactly right, and folks. That's what this guide is
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: about because one of the things that was probably not
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: done here was an irrevocable medicaid trust. That's one of
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: the trusts that are explained in Demystifying Top estate Planning
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Top eight estate Planning Trusts. Again, we want to understand
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: which trust is right for you. That trust is described
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: in here, how it works, taxes, why it works, same thing.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: What if you don't need the era of What if
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: you want a revocable trust that's described in here. What
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: if you're relying on a nominee realty trust? Please don't
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: get the guide. Learn how those work? You know, folks,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: there's one after another, special needs trust. If you have
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: disabled children, if you need to get your estate planning done,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: you need this guide because this is going to help
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: you figure out what's right for you. Eight six six
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Show dot com brand new for the month, folks eight
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com and you can download it there.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: You can also go to our Cushing Dole in PC
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Instagram page for more information. All right, what are we learning?
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: We learn not to apply for Medicaid on your own
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: a big lesson, but I think more importantly, rather than
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: that lesson, let me help you understand the Medicaid application
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: process a little bit, which I think will drive home
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: the point of why I'm not doing this on my own.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: So first and foremost, folks, you need to be in
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: a skilled nursing facility in order to actually apply. They
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: were here. I tell you that because if you're at home,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: you're an assisted living, you're an independent living, you're not
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: applying for Medicaid. So that's hard stop.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: Next, you're gonna need five years worth of stuff like
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: what bank statements, brokerage statements, IRA accounts, roth IRA accounts. Right,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: you're gonna need that.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: So they're not just requesting that to bog down the process.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: They're going to review all of the money movements within
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: those accounts.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: Right, That's exactly where I'm headed, Susan. Because in addition
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: to that, you're gonna need three years of income tax returns.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: So that's important. Why do they want the income to
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: t returns? Well, they're going to see every single institution
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: that issued a ten ninety nine because it'll be listed
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: on that return. Then they can make sure that they've
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: got information from you for all those institutions. And then,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: as you said, Susan, once they get all those statements,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: they start looking through them and they look through them
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: for transactions that might look like a gift. Oh, money
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: went out and we don't know where it went, right,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: any transactions that are really over one thousand dollars, They
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: might say, where did this go? Is this a disqualifying transfer?
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Did you make a gift to your grandchild? Did you
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: make a gift to your kid? They're looking again in
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: that magic five year window. Right, that's why they ask
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: for five years. We all know about the five year
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: look back period. So they're looking in that five year
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: window to see if money moved.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: And because they want to know did you give away
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: anything could have otherwise been used for your care?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Right, that's exactly right. And if they do, and here's
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: the point, Susan, if they do, then they're going to
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: impose a penalty period based on the amount transfer divided
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: by the average cost of nursing home care in the
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: state hard stop on the Medicaid application or could be right, So,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: if they happened to see three hundred thousand dollars that
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: moved right, and they divide that by the average cost
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: is now like twelve thousand in change. Right, So they
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: come up with like a thirty month penalty period. They're
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: going to say, you're denied starting today, even though you
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: transferred this four years ago, because they found it on
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: an earlier statement. Even though they transferred this four years ago,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: you're denied thirty months starting today.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And if you met with someone and saw that, you'd
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: have a different strategy for applying, right.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'd be like, let's wait, let's wait a year,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: let's figure out how much we can save by waiting
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: and paying privately. Again, tips that you don't get, So
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Susan's pointing out tips you don't get if you're just
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: applying on your own, So got to be careful. That's
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: why they look for that. Also, they're going to need
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: your birth certificate, your driver's license, your Medicare cards, folks.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: It goes on and on, right, And then they're gonna
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: want copies of deeds to your real estate, your rental properties,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: your vacation homes. They're gonna want to see if you
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: own them or if you've transferred them. If you own them,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: they're likely going to try to place a lien on
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: the property. If it's your home, you might not be denied.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: If it's a rental property, maybe not denied because it's
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: a rental, but a lino go on. Your vacation home,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: a lino go on. So I mean, and some of
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: these could be hard stops in the application process itself.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you're single in the home's worth more
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: than like a million, one hundred thousand, I forget the
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: exact number. Hard stop. Don't bother so, folks, this is
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: why you do it. And then remember this is what
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: you were saying earlier. There's generally these thirty day deadlines.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: You apply, thirty days later they contact you. You have
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: thirty days to get us all this additional information that
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: we're looking for, Like in this case, you produce it
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: within thirty days, and then hopefully thirty days later you
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: get your approval. If you've done everything right. You know
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: you're under two thousand, your community spouse is under one sixty,
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: and you're eligible for medicaid or like in this case,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: you get denied. If you don't, Folks, call and get
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: the guide brand new for the month eight six six
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: eight four eight five six nine nine or legal Exchange
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: show dot Com that top eight estate planning trusts. Call
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: and get it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: in a few minutes with Todd answering your listener questions
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: on the legal exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about writing a will. The
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: right trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: reduce the state time access, and even help shield assets
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: from the cost of long term care. That's why Cushing
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and Dolan created a new guide called Demistifying the Top
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: eight estate Planning Trusts. Inside you'll learn the difference between
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: revocable and irrevocable trusts, why some trusts are designed to
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: protect assets from a nursing home, and how certain trusts
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: can keep your family's affairs private. The guide also explains
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: some of the biggest mistakes families make, including creating trusts
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: but never properly funding them. If you've been putting off
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: of state planning, this guide is a great place to start.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan today at eight sixty six eight
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: four eight five six ninety nine. To get your free copy,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that's eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: or request it online at Legal exchange show dot com.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: This is Susan Powers from the Armstrong Advisory Group. When
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: it comes to social security and Medicare, the decisions you
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: make today can have a lasting ima pact on your retirement.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: There are key choices to consider, like when to claim,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: how spousal and survivor options work, and whether your Medicare
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: coverage is aligned with your needs. Without a clear strategy,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: it's easy to overlook how taxes, income and healthcare costs
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: all connect. Join us for a complementary educational seminar on Thursday,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: June twenty fifth at five pm at the Marriott in
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Quinsy will help you understand your options and the decisions
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: that come with them. That's Thursday June twenty fifth at
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: five pm at the Marriott in Quinsy. Reserve your seat
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: today by calling eight hundred three nine three for zero
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: zero one. That's eight hundred three nine three for zero
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: zero one, or register online at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: advisory services. A trust can do a lot more than
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: simply pass assets to your family. Certain trusts may help
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: keep your estate out of probatetect assets for your children,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and in some cases even help reduce the state tax liability.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan has created a new guide called Demystifying
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the Top Estate Planning Trusts. It breaks down some of
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: the most commonly used trusts in estate planning, including trust
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: designed to help families plan for long term care, protect
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: beneficiaries with special needs, and help keep life insurance proceeds
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: outside of a taxable estate. You'll also learn why simply
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: having a trust isn't enough, because if it isn't properly funded,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: it may not accomplish the goals you expect. To get
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: your free copy, call Cushing and Dolan today at eight
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine. That's
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: or request the guide online at Legal exchange show dot com.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal investment services.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: This is Michael Valila, adjedent of the Disabled American Veterans
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: Department of Massachusetts. We focus on the people returnlearning from service,
• 27:01
  Speaker 5: not their specific illness or injury. Our number one goal
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: is to make sure our veterans have the necessary services
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: they need, be it physical, emotional, or financial, so that
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: their transition can be seamless. You can help our great
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: American heroes as well by making a donation today by
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: visiting dav five k dot Boston. That's dav five k
• 27:22
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• 27:24
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange and It's time for
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Welcome back. Todd.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Have a few questions from listeners for you. First question
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: comes from Maryanne and Attleboro, mass And Marianne writes, my
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: husband and I created a revocable trust in twenty ten
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: and return to our attorney recently to protect our primary
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: residents and our vacation home from the nursing home. The
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: attorney created two nomine reality trusts that have our children
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: as trustees and leave the home equally to both of
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: them as beneficiaries. Can we transfer any of our investments
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: to the Nominee trust to protect them from the nursing
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: home as well?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Wow? This is this disaster got worse as you read it. Wow, Susan,
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: I thought you might think, so. Yeah, this is just
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: so folks. The focus here is Nominee realty trusts, right,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: That's what they have. They had revocal trusts, which I liked.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I also liked the idea of people since it was
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: done back in twenty ten. When you get to twenty
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: twenty six saying you know what, it's it's time to
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: look at my chair, look at my trust you. That's
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: a great thing there. So they started off good, the
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: review was good. I think they just went to the
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: wrong attorney because the attorney should not have recommended nominy
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: realty trusts as a way of protecting assets from a
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: nursing home. And here's why a nominee realty trust, as
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: we said man many times, is really not a trust.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: It's kind of a Massachusetts anomaly. The reason it's not
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: a trust is because there's language in there that says
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: the trustees and it's okay, they want to put the
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: kids on as trustees have no power to act at
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: all with regard to the trust property unless directed by
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: the beneficiaries. But even though they're not dead yet. Right,
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: that's right because mom and dad meaning right, But follow
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: the language. The beneficiaries direct the trustee. Well, who's the beneficiaries?
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Oh the kids? So now the kids are the trustees,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: but the kids are also the beneficiaries. So they tell
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: themselves as trustees, as beneficiaries, they tell themselves as trustees
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: to act. But what does that mean? That means that
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: the beneficiaries are really the owners of the assets in
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: the trust right away.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Immediately, So as soon as they drop this nominee.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: Trust and transfer the property into it with a deed yep, immediately,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: it's a completed gift for gift tax purposes to these kids.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So if it's a completed gift, that would mean after
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: five years, it's protective from the nursing home. By what
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: happens if mom and dad want to do anything with
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: their property.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: At what cost Susan, I'm telling you, I'm so it
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: does protect it. Hesitate on that because it is a
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: revocable trust and somehow, I mean it should provide protection
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: because you technically don't own it anymore. But it what cost? Yeah,
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, now you can't live there, you can't sell it,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: you can't get a new house if you want to,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: you can't. I mean, And there's tax implications by doing that,
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: are they not?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: There is? I mean now of course it's a carryover
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: basis for income tax purposes to the kids. So it's
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: really hurting the kids, Yeah, because if they want to
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: sell it at some point, they're going to have a
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: carryover basis from whatever the parents paid. With a lot
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: of built in gain, you know, but never mind that.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: What about if the kids get divorced.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: It's a marital asset now right.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Now, the kids might not even and this is bad
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: for the children and the parent. It's a lose lose,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: right because the kids might say, yeah, I own it,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: but at what cost? Well, if I get divorced, I
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: lose what I could have gotten inheritance. Why do I
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: want to give that up sooner than I need to?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So in this case, what would you have recommended if
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Marianne and her husband came to you instead?
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Right, And I'm going to answer that. I just want
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: to say, also, you putting money in here? Oh yeah, yeah,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: yea yeahld you imagine if we put money in that's
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: just twice.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: As bad because then you're just giving your assets away
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: to your kids completely.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it got worse as real estate and yep, wow,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: now I've given away a house and money, so please
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: don't put the money in here. Now. Your question, Susan
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: was what.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: If they had come to you, what would you have recommended?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Because their objective was protect from the nursing home.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: I'm guessing that the size of the estate is large
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: enough that we needed to trust if we did, I
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: would have created too irrevocable Medicaid income only trust and
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: put the house in or the money in if they
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: wanted to. That's fine. Why because they still control it.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: The trustee doesn't own it. No adverse tax, no adverse
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: income tax, no gift tax, full step up in basis.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: They could sell the property, buy another one later. All
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: these things folks get done with irrevocable Medicaid trust and folks.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: The guide this month brand new, demystifying the top eight
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: estate planning trust updated. It's got a new trust in it,
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: and one of them is a Medicaid income only trust.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: You need to know how to do that. If you want,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: get the guide. If that's not right for you, read
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: the revocable trust. Maybe that's better for you. You got a
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: special needs child, special needs trusts are in here. You've
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: got a situation where you've got life insurance and you
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: don't know how to deal with it. Irrevocable life insurance
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: trusts are in here. Gifting trust folks. If you haven't
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: got your state plan in order, this is going to
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: help you figure out what you need. And if you
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: do have it, maybe the irrevocable life insurance trust are
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: switching to a medicaid trust is something you need, it's
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: good for you too. Call and get it eight six
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or legal
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: exchange show dot com. You can download it there eight
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six ninety nine or
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: legal exchange show dot com brand new for the month.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: And you can also go to Cushing DOLANPC dot com
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: or PC to get your Instagram page and more information.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: I can't talk right now. That was That was a
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Pushing and Dolans on Instagram. That's it. That's all you
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: need to know.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Last question comes from Jennifer and Malden Mass and Jennifer Wrights.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I am married and my husband and I have named
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: our only son is the beneficiary on all of our
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: accounts except for our home. We are in our mid
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: sixties and our total assets are around one and a
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: half million. Because we only have one child, we are
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: thinking of adding him to our deed so he can
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: avoid probate when we pass away. Why is everybody giving
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: away their assets today.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Susan, you're making these questions? Are both of them are
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: starting off and then getting worse as you go through.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: If we do this will this remove the need for
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: a trust.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is going to remove the need for
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: you to continue to live sure you don't have anything.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: So folks, we don't like this idea. So it starts
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: off bad because even though you only have one child,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: which is fine, and you want to leave things to
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: that child, if you listed the one child as beneficiary
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: on I think that's what they said on all their accounts. Yeah,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, it would avoid probate, but it really doesn't
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: do anything to help you reduce the state taxes. So
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: maybe your child will end up getting less because of
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: the way you didn't plan. And again, even if she married. Yeah,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: so she's.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Married, married, and they're only in their mid sixties, so
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: they could easily double their assets before they pass away.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Now they're at three million.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: And so that you die in one assets goes from
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: joint ownership, which is probably how they have it, so
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: that the surviving spouse would just get everything that would
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: avoid probate. And then provided it's the same account that
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: has the SUN as the beneficiary, THENET would avoid probate
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: and the Sun would get it. I get that. But
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: because all the assets passed to the spouse on the
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: first death, because no planning is done, that might result
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: in the child getting less because the surviving spouse's estate
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: was pushed up, causing an estate taxable situation when that
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: spouse dies. Instead of sheltering assets on the first death
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: through the use of even a simple revocable trust would
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: do that. So not a good idea of naming beneficiaries,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: is not my face.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: And they're asking about adding their son to the deed
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: little different than the nominee reality trust.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: They're going to put them on the deed with them. Yeah,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: so that's I don't know if that's less bad or
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: or not less bad, still still bad because I guess
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: this way, at least mom and Dad still perhaps two
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: thirds of the house. If they're you know, they they
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: would have kept two thirds, or or maybe they would
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: have only kept half together and given him half, depends
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: on how they drafted. But probably they would have kept
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: two thirds and he would have gotten one third, but
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: he would have got it right away. So now another
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: completed gift, immediately exposing it to his creditors, his divorces,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: his situation, capital gains, tax issues when he's selling. Yeah,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: you've got a carryover basis at least for one third.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I assume two thirds would be included, you'd
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: get a step up. You're not really doing any estate
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: tax planning a little bit, maybe by getting some out
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: of the estate, but like you said, carryover basis goes on.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: You're certainly not protecting the whole house from the nursing home,
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: if that's a concern of yours. So folks lots to
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: think about when you're doing your estate plan figure out
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: which trust is right for you. Get this guide. It's
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: brand new for the month. Top eight estate planning trusts
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Demystified eight six six, eight four, eight, five six nine nine,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Or go to our website Legal Exchange Show dot com
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: and you can download the guide there.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you'd like to ask Todd,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: will stop you from being one of his next real
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and we'll
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: be back with more after this quick break on the
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Ludski.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: The state planning isn't just about writing a will. The
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: right trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: reduce the state taxes, and even help shield assets from
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the cost of long term care. That's why Cushing and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Dolan created a new guide called Demistifying the Top eight
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Estate Planning Trusts. Inside you'll learn the difference between revocable
• 37:57
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• 38:00
  Speaker 1: assets from a nursing home, and how certain trusts can
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: keep your family's affairs private. The guide also explains some
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: of the biggest mistakes families make, including creating trusts but
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: never properly funding them. If you've been putting off of
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: state planning, this guide is a great place to start.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan today at eight sixty six eight
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: four eight five six ninety nine to get your free copy.
• 38:21
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• 38:24
  Speaker 1: or request it online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 38:28
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• 38:30
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  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
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• 38:37
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• 38:39
  Speaker 4: This is Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. One
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• 39:26
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory group a
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• 39:39
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• 39:57
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• 40:12
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• 40:20
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• 40:40
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• 40:43
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• 40:48
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• 40:50
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• 40:56
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• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lunsky. I'm
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lunsky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Todd.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: One of the sections of Your New Guy, Demystifying the
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Top eight eight Estate Planning trust We're up to eight.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: We're up to eight is about special needs in sole
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: benefit trusts. So there are different types of special needs trust.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: What are the most common types that we have?
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: So there's really I think I'm going to say sort
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: of two, right, the special needs trust where and by
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: the way, folks, this is for people who have maybe
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: it's implicit special needs children or a beneficiary of any
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: kind that is special needs on disabled or something big grandchildren, needs, nephew,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: something anyway, correct, someone you want to take care of,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: but you don't want them to lose governmental benefits by
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: taking care of them, and you don't have to disinherit
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: them just because they're special needs. A lot of people
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: have been under that misconception that they do they do
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: I know, So I think that's the first thing. That's
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: why we're doing a special needs trust. So the two
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: kinds I think you asked me or what are the
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: two two most common? A stand alone special needs trust
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: or a special needs trust built into your estate plan?
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so well yeah, why would you pick one over
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: the other?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't do stand alone special needs trust that often.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: The reason being is I don't know that I need it.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: I don't need while I'm alive if I've got a
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: special needs child to be funding a special needs trust
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: that's gonna then use the money to dole it out
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: to my special needs child as needed during your life,
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: during my life. Why I can just do that myself.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: I can just I own my money, I have it
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: in my trust. I'm managing my own money, and if
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: my child needs help for something, I'm going to write
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: the check. Fine. So when would you do that? I guess, well,
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: maybe you've got a whole bunch of family members, aunts
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: and uncles and grandparents and people who say, geez, I
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: want to help with your special needs child. Well, then
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: you can set up a standalone for other people to
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: contribute to.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: OK.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: So that would maybe be the time. You don't see
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: it a lot, not often. The one you see mostly
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: is the one built into your family estate plan. So
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: somebody who comes in and says, we're doing an estate plan,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: and whether it's a revocable trust or a medicaid income
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: only trust, so be any kind even life insurance trust,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter. What matters is if the beneficiary, if
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: one of the beneficiaries of that trust that we're talking
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: about it is the special needs child, then you put
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: that language in there, right. And so what that might
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: say is that would say equally to my children. And again,
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: I might be treating all my kids the same way,
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: so I might have the same language in each trust,
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: but for different reasons. For the special needs child, it
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: would say income and principle can be paid out in
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: the trustees sole discretion, maybe even the disinterested trustees sole discretion.
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: That means that that special needs child doesn't own the asset. Yep.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: It won't cause that child to lose their governmental benefits.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Because they don't have they don't have the discretion to
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: take money out on their own.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: They can't and so they don't own it. And at
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: the same time, it allows the trustee to enhance the
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: life of that child through distribution. Okay, and you might
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: have that same language for children as well, but that's
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: divorce proofing, creditor protecting, same kind of language for different reasons.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: You're really treating all your kids the same way, whether
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: they're special needs or you just want a divorce proof
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: or credit to protect the future inheritive.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Generation skip tech. So no one has to feel ostracized.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: We're all treated the same way. Really good idea, folks.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: So again, one of the top eight estate planning trusts
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: in this brand new guide for the month. That's in here, right,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: what special needs trusts, sole benefit trusts right, not just
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: medicaid earrevs and irrevocable life insurance trust folks, and especially
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: nominee realty trusts. They're in here. If you haven't done
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: your planning, this guide will help you figure out which
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: trust might be right for your situation. If you have
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: done your planning and you might want to update, and
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: maybe you're switching from a revocable to an irrevocable and
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: you want to know how it works, the guide's right
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: for you. Little something for everyone, folks, Brand new eight
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine to nine
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: or Legal Exchange Show dot com eight six six eight
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: four eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: dot com. You can download the new guide right there
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: and always go to our Instagram page cushing go and
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: PC for more information.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: So if mom and dad add that language to their
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: either their revocable trust or their irrevocable trust, doesn't matter.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: They can still have that special needs language in there. Yes,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: how does it actually get funded?
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And so that's why I don't think you need
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: to stand alone. You don't need to put stuff in there.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Now you need to put it in there when you die. Okay,
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: So when you die, the trust will have the language
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: that says, you know, upon the death of the donor,
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: and then you read and it might say, you know,
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: divide everything into as many equal shares as there are children.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Then living well, then you start retitling. We call people
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: like you, Susan, and we say, you know, help us retitle.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: We get you a tax ID number, you know, Todd
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: Lutsky Family Trust FBO. You know, Billy. Now we've got
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: an ID number for that share, yep, And would go
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: certain assets we'd retitle, just like we retitled to the
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: revocable trust or the family trust from the get go.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And who would control the assets that are in that
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: trust for them?
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: So the trustee is the one that would now be
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: in charge. And that's why you need to think about
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: that when you're picking this, right, we're planning not for
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: today but for whole life. So when you're both gone,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: mom and Dad, who do you think is good at
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: managing the trust assets?
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Could they have a sibling or another child.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Generally it's a great idea to have a sibling, especially
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: over a special needs share, but oftentimes for the other kids.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: You might have an independent trustee that they can pick
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: and remove, but they would have the ability to pick
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: that independent trustee, like to give it to a child
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: who's not special needs, more worried about divorce, proof and
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: credit or protection than I am special needs. Okay, So
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: lots to think.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: About what happens if there are funds left in that trust,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: and specifically for this special needs trust, when they pass away,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: the special needs child passes away, what happens to the money?
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: So again all staying in the bloodline, I think you
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: need to think about. And all the shares probably are
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: going to say the same thing, whether they're special needs
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: or not. Let's sort of play out the string. So
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: the special needs share would likely say, hold all the
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: assets in trust for life. Make discretionary distributions as you go. Well,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: a special needs child may not need a lot, and
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: so it may be growing faster than you're even distributing
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: it out, and so that child then you have language
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: that says, upon that child's death, hold it in trust
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: for that child's children. You might say, well, Todd, why
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: would you put that language in if it's a special
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: needs child? Well, maybe the special needs came because of
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: an accident and they already have children, right right, or
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: they're not that special needs and they're able to have children.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know. So you always want to figure that out.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: And if no children, would you have to have that
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: language certainly? If no children, then it can be distributed
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: back up into the pot for the surviving siblings, which
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: would be the surviving donors kids.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, if you had someone you just mentioned someone could
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: have become disabled during life.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: If you had someone who was.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Disabled and maybe they got a settlement from a lawsuit,
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: would you take the same approach where the parents would
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: be paid out for that lawsuit and just hold it
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: for the kid or what would you do with those?
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that would be. Like I guess in the
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: beginning when we asked when we talked about the two
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: kinds of special needs trust that we create, we talked
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: about a standalone a and one built into a trust. Well,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: I guess there's a third kind and they're kind of
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: overlap self settled trust versus third party trust. Okay, so
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: the third party trust is the ones we already talked about.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: You either set it up as a parent stand alone
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: or you have it built into your family not at
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: risk for those are we describe those, but those are
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: also third party trusts, so there's a couple of names
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: to describe those. Self settled trust would be a your example, Susan,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: where you know someone had an accident and got a judgment.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: Well that's their money. Yeah, So if it's that kid's money,
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: then that kid is funding the trust with his money.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: I e. Self settled, got it, And that's a little
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: different because the biggest difference is that trust will have
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: a payback provision to the state. God, there won't be one. Folks,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: so much to think about when you're doing your estate
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: plan If you've not done it, get started. Get the
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: guide Top eight estate planning trusts Demystified. Pick your guide
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: or go to our website Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. Thank you for joining us today and we'll
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: be back again next week on the Legal Exchange with
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Estate Planning isn't just about writing a will. The right
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: trust can help your family avoid probate, protect your home,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: reduce estate taxes, and even help shield assets from the
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: cost of long term care. That's why Cushing and Dolan
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: created a new guide called Demistifying the Top eight Estate
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Planning Trusts. Inside you'll learn the difference between revocable and
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: irrevocable trusts, why some trusts are designed to protect assets
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: from a nursing home, and how certain trusts can keep
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: your family's affairs private. The guide also explains some of
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes families make, including creating trusts but never
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: properly funding them. If you've been putting off of state planning,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: this guide is a great place to start. Call Cushing
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and Dolan today at eight sixty six eight four eight
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine to get your free copy. That's
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: eight sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: or request it online at Legal exchange show dot com.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for in The views expressed are
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: other and are not a.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: This is Susan powers from the Armstrong Advisory Group. When
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: it comes to social security and Medicare, the decisions you
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: make today can have a lasting impact on your retirement.
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