Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Tummy Tuck Four': Americans Kidnapped, Murdered, En Route to Tuck

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'Tummy Tuck Four': Americans Kidnapped, Murdered, En Route to Tuck · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Americans kidnapped at gunpoint when
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: they're on a vacation in Mexico. It turns out there
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: are murders of Americans on vacation in Mexico. Then why
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: are people still flooding across the border and how did
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: this happen? I mean, Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Station
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: in series M one eleven. First of all, take a
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends at WPDE. We're closely following the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: kidnapping four US citizens and Metamoris on March third. The
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: FBI working very closely with other federal partners in Mexican
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies to investigate this. Christopher Hickson says she
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: had no clue her son, twenty eight year olds and
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Dell Brown had left the state yet alone the country.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Brown is one of four missing and feared kidnapped in Mexico.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Grant says she talked with her brother last Thursday while
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: he and three other friends were driving to Mexico. I
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: felt a little uneasy because I told him I had
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: a dream. You know, I say, so, I'm just checking
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: on you. That's what I told him. Thursday, and then,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: like I said, Friday morning, I text theyre not didn't
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: get anything. The four are believed to have been targeted
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: by mistake and we're not the intended victim. Well, that
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: dream turned into a nightmare. Take a listen to KTRK.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Clues on where and what happened to four Americans continue
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to emerge following their kidnapping and matamodels inside the Mexican
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: state Damolipas. Surveillance video matching what the FBI says happened
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: is also circulating, although the FBI has yet to confirm
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: if it's the same situation. Damolipas is on the State
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Departments do not travel list because of high crime and kidnapping.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: We do also remind Americans about the existing travel guidance
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: when it comes to this particular part of Mexico. Tonight,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: at least one of the potential victims is being identified
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: by his family in South Carolina has twenty eight year
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: old Zindel Brown. The waiting is the worst part. ABC
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: has also confirmed two other Americans with Brown, Shyde Woodard
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and Tay McGee, mining their own business. All they did
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: was cross the border. But why all of this happening
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: just about twelve miles away from the US take a
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: lot star phrases. CBS video posted on Twitter appears to
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: show the moment four US citizens were kidnapped in Mexico.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: State Department officials say they are working to secure the
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Americans safe return. BFBI working very closely with other federal
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: partners in Mexican law enforcement agencies to investigate this. This
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: happened in Matamoros Friday, about a twelve minute drawing from Brownsville, Texas.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: The band says the Americans entered Mexico driving a white
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: minivan with North Carolina license plates. Shortly after crossing the border,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: gunman opened fire on the passengers in the vehicle. A
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: white minivan is under fire for what machine guns in Mexico.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Americans are twelve miles away from a US city in Texas,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: and this happens. We find out more. Take a listen
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to our friends at crime online dot com. Five friends
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: set out from South Carolina to Mexico, LaTavia, Ta McGee.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: A mom of six wanted a tummy tuck. The surgical
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: procedure to remove abdominal fab was scheduled with a doctor
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: in Matamorrows just across the US Mexico border. One of
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the friends, Cheryl Orange, stayed behind in the Brownsville, Texas
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: hotel room since she didn't have the proper documentation across
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the border. The four Americans traveled to Mattamorrows from Brownsville
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: on Friday in a rented white minivan. McGee was to
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: be dropped off at a doctor's office and then the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: other three would return to meet Orange at the hotel
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: until the surgery was over. But the Americans couldn't find
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the doctor's office and got lost. Okay, all of this
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: over a tummy tuck. It's called medical tourism, and I'm
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: certainly as the mother of twins, I'm not maligning anyone
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that wants a dummy tuck. I completely understand, but to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: cross the border it can I just introduce an expert
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: in this field, doctor Stephanie Porous plastic surgeon, well known
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: plastic surgeon joining us out of Orlando at porous plastic
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Surgery dot com, dodgor poris. Thanks for being with us,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: doctor Poris. Can I tell you before we pooh pooh
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: these four Americans who crossed the border forget to get
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: plastic surgery? Can I tell you what just happened in
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: my family. My mother who's ninety one now ninety one,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: los a me and she deadline dentures. Do you blame her?
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: So she was going to get a mouthful of dental
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: implants going into her savings account, and I mean it
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: was expensive. And she said, you know what, I'm going
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: to go to Mexico and get implants. I'm like, if
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: you say no to her, then that's for sure what
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: she's going to do. So I knew not to say no.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: But I have just literally written a book, including traveling
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: abroad in big, huge all caps, especially Mexico. And the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: reason was here in the US, they were concerned that
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: she didn't have enough bone to attach the implants. If
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that's making any sense, hardly any dentist would do it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: She found one that was going to do it for
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: an exorbitant amount, and I was suspicious, Why would only
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: just one dentist do it? But Lucky, I said, Mom,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: why would you go to Mexico. You won't be near
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a hospital. They don't have the same safety pursuers as
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the US does. Finally we went to the dentist here
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: and there a specialty practice, and it worked. It worked.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: She's beautiful teeth. But my point is my mother, who
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: was the CFO of a company played in the Georgia Symphony,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: the Chilla. She's brilliant. She was considering this. So first
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: of all, what is a tummy tuck? Let's just start
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. Absolutely, well, that's a story that can
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: resonate with many, including myself and my family. So a
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: tummy tuck is simply removal of the excess skin on
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the lower part of your tummy to kind of tighten
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: things up and sometimes at the same time we fix
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the muscle, your ab muscles underneath. And it's really great
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: for you know, the post moms of the world, or
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: even patience with massive weight loss, or just people with
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: that stubborn exo skin that they just can't get rid of.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: So wait a minute, what do you do like cut
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the tummy open and then what suck out fat? What? Yeah?
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, let me get down from me, because I
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: know nothing about this except it really scared when people
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: get them. What do they actually do in a tummy tuck?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so we're actually making an incision from about
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: hip to hip, depending on how much excess skin you have. Okay,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: whoa wa right there, that's a no go, but okay,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: go ahead. We don't physically go inside your abdomen, inside
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: your belly. Everything is done on the skin level and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: just down to the muscle. But a lot of times,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: you know, when we have weight loss or changes with pregnancy,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: we actually get muscle separation and a lot of people
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: have a sort of loss of course strength after this,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and so we actually go in and we can tighten
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: up the muscles at the same time we've removed this
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: excess skin that gives you that more washboard abs. Look,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: if you've looked at pictures of before and afters of
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: tummy tucks, a lot of people say, oh, the stomach
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: actually looks a lot flatter. Not only is it missing skin,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: but it also looks flatter. And why wow, okay, doctor
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Stephanie Porus, you're hearing her speak. She's the only female
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: owner and operated plastic surgery practice in Orlando. In Orlando
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: is very big, the only one, and that's why we
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: wanted her, and we researched her very carefully because, knock
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: on wood, nothing like a botched procedure in the middle
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: of a tummy tuck has happened with this doctor. But
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: let me go to doctor Jan Gorniac, Medical Examiner, Clark
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: County Office of Coroners, joining us out of Vegas Board
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: certified forensic Pathologist, doctor Gorneiac. That's not always true with
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: tummy Tuck's not every plastic surgeon has as pristine of
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: a record as doctor Porus, much less in Mexico. What
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: could go wrong with a tummy tuck? Many things can
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: go wrong, especially not being, like you said, in a
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: accredited hospital facility, not the pristine conditions as sterile equipment.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So anything can go wrong, from an infection to bleeding
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: that they're not controlling the bleeding correctly, not giving them
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: any antibiotics afterwards. I was reading putting bandages directly on
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: the wound, the tissue dying, the person dying. There's so
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: many complications from not being in a certified sterile environment.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: It's all about the money, I mean. I asked my mom.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I said, where did you get the idea? Not in
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: an accusing way, the way I'm talking right now, o'h. Like, Mom,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: what led you to believe she got to Mexico for
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: a full mouthful of dental implants at age ninety And
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: she said, Google I'm like, oh, dear Lord in Heaven,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: and I was very spet skeptical, but then I found out.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Let me go to Nicole parton Crime online dot Com
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: investigate every reporter. Nicole, did you know around one point
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: two million Americans travel to Mexico for plastic surgery and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: other operations each year, one point two million Americans, and
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: to trash these four Americans are going, why would they
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: do that? That's so crazy. There are brilliant people, accomplished people,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: educated people that do this, Nicole, Absolutely, Nancy, and they're
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: doing it because the cost can be fifty upwards to
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: eighty percent cheaper across the border, so they're leaving our
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: country going there. It's estimated that a million Californians have
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: traveled into Mexico to get cheaper prescription meds and medical procedures.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So this is something that is on the rise because
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: they're saving up to eighty percent off the cost of
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: these procedures, but maybe not taking into consideration the bleak
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: outcome and cheaper isn't always better. You're right, because there
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: with no follow up and standard of care procedures in place,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: you die, and then what happens in Mexico what we're
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: going to chase it down. The doctor in Mexico who,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: if he or she is a doctor, has probably moved
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to a new location and formed a new corporation under
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: a different name. Blah blah blah. But what good is
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: it chasing them for some money when your loved one
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: is dead and it happens. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Guys.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum is forensic expert, director of the Cold Case
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Research Institute and Starving You hit series A podcast Zone seven. Cheryl,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: it's amazing to me. It's less than fifteen miles away
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: from a Texas city. It's less than fifteen miles, but
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: it's a whole different world. And one thing that people
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: need to understand when traveling to another country is Mexico
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: has the same level of warning for this particular city
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: as we do for North Korea. You've got to do
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: your research, Nancy. When you and I were traveling to
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: a rouble with Beth Holloway, how many times did she
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: warn people about if your friends don't have the right idea,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: if they don't have enough room on their credit card,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: if they don't know, you know, make sure their family
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: knows how to reach them. This group had some issues.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Miss Orange couldn't even cross the border. She had to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: stay at the hotel because she didn't have the proper ID. Well,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: that tells you right there they might not have done
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: proper research. Not having the correct ide, not doing the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: proper research. I saw well and good, but the whole
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: endeavor goes sideways. Take a listen to our cut eight CBS.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: There are reports that the missing Americans may have been
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: targeted by mistake. The FBI is now assisting with the
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: investigation and a note of caution. The images here are graphic.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: This is the moment four Americans were kidnapped in Madam Morris, Mexico,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: just across the border from Brownsville, Texas. They were traveling
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: in this white minivan with North Carolina plates when they
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: came under fire. The video appears to show a woman
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: forced into the back of a pickup truck by men
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: with guns, then two others who appear hurt, loaded next
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: to her. The Mexican president says the four we're going
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: to buy medicine less expensive in Mexico, as hundreds of
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: thousands of Americans do each year, and that they could
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: have been mistakenly targeted, mistakenly targeted for those of you
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: just joining us. Four Americans kidnapped at gunpoint just after
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: they crossed the Mexican border. Their loved ones left behind
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: wondering what happened, But there was one woman that lives
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: to tell the story. Take a listen to our friends
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: over at seeing It. Ta's my Latavia's my best friend.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: She hit me up and asked me to join her.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So I accompany her and the trip to Brownsville, Texas
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: for cosmetic surgery, and we begetting the road trip. We
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: left out on Thursday and traveled to Texas. Once I
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: got there, I was then informed that her procedure was
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: being done across the border and that event we were
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: just arriving in Brownsville, Texas at Studio six, and I
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: didn't have proper identification, so I couldn't join her to
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: go across to the border, which left me back at
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the hotel. When I told I didn't have my idea
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: with me, she didn't. Dad dropped me off at the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: hotel and said that they would return in fifteen minutes.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: That's why I was so like worry and in fear
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: because it didn't seem right. Fifteen minutes had gone by.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: They were not there when they dropped me off at
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the hotel. I had got into the shower, I showered,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: and I laid on the bed. I think I was
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: exhausted from you know, the long hours, the long ride,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: so I felt I ended up falling the sleep. I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: woke up and it was already five o'clock in the afternoon.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So from nine to five I went down to the office,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the clerk in the hotel, and I asked him how
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: my friends come back or attempted to come in and
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: out the hotel, come back to the hotel, and he
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: told me no, the one woman that didn't have the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: ride credentials to get across the border. Straight out to
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, renown's like Hidra's joining us out of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction. At Angela Arnold MD dot com. You
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: deal well, one of your expertise is dealing with women's issues.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: To say, a road trip makes it. It sounds like, hey,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: let's all go to Miami and jump in the pool
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and go to a club and have a nice dinner.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: It sounds so, I don't know, innocuous, so fun, like
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: what could possibly go wrong? Nobody said at the gego
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: they were crossing the Mexican border for a tummy tuck.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: But you know what, Nancy, they probably everybody was expecting
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to have fun on this trip. And you know what,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the woman was probably very excited because she had saved
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: her little money, little money, my rare end. It's a
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: lot and know little money. It's cost thousands and thousands
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: of dollars even in Mexico. Well, she had still probably
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: scraped together her money to have this done. I'm sure
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: she was very excited to have a new look after
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: having so many children. And you know what, and her
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: friends were coming with her, and they were all being
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: supportive of her, and they worked, we're making a trip
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: out of it, and they were expecting to have a
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: very good time there. And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know about y'all, but I don't believe for
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: a second that they were mistaken for drug cartel people
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: with a white van with a North Carolina or South
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Carolina license plate on it. They were they were hit.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: This was a hit. Let's not call it something that
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: it's not okay, you know what, I think you're absolutely right, doctor,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and shee and please don't limit yourself to matters of psychiatry.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: You can go ahead and just kick Nicole a partners
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: straight out of her seat and takeover. But Nicole, don't
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: leave just yet. To doctor Stephanie Porous joining us. She
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: is a very well known at popular plastic surgeon out
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: of Orlando at Porous plastic surgery dot com. Doctor Stephanie,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that you go through every single risk, post op, preop,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the whole shebang when you have a patient. Correct you
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: think they're doing that down in Mexico. Absolutely not. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: mean I spend ninety minutes with my new patient consults,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: and then we bring them back two to three weeks
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: prior to their surgery to go over those risks again.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: So I highly doubt, especially considering that they've never seen
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: a doctor. There was no mention of any paperwork. I mean, truly, truly,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that anybody explained the risks of the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: procedure to them. And that's a scary part about this
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: medical tourism thing is you just don't know the credibility,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: the ethics, the morals of that doctor or dentist on
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the other side that is going to treat you and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: it is scary. You really got to do your research.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: And Ana what doctor Stephanie forres, I get it. There
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: are millions of cosmetic procedures done every day here in
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the US, and they turn out just fine. But I
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: had a very dear friend, you may know her name,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: John Rivers, that I knew in New York and it
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: was very very kind to me and my children, and
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: she went in for a minor procedure, very minor, and
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: she's dead. And I'm so tempted to do this or that,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and I think of Joan and I just say, hey,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: put on some more lipstick. Oh. We have a saying
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: in surgery. You know, there's no such thing as simple
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: simple surgery, just simple surgeons, because we know that any cut,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: even something one centimeter in size, can leave you, truly,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: truly with some significant complications when it comes to surgery.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: So they're you're right to have that pause. I mean
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: they're again, things do happen, and you know, and then
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, when you travel to these other countries,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: you know, you come back to America, you know, we're
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: sometimes left picking up the pieces and they can be devastating,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and they can be costly, even more costly than you
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: could have imagined, and you know, most importantly deadly. Right, Yes,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: doctor Jane Gornia joining me Medical Examine, Clark County in Vegas.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Never a lack of business there, Doctor Gourney at Doctor
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Gourney Act. How many times? I mean, if you could
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: just guess, have you had to perform an autopsy on
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: someone that had a botched plastic surgery? Um, thankfully, it's
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: it's low. It's probably you know, two or three in
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the past, but you know seventeen years. But I'm glad
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that you asked me that because in your previous guests
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: talking about the risk factors, when someone dies of a
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: complict a known complication, we call that natural. So for example,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: when you go over the risk and they sign their
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: content and the risk of the surgery is infection, and
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: then they die from that infection, that's a known complication,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we would call that a natural got it. I did
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: not know that, Doctor Gorne Act. But you know what's
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: so interesting is that these Americans that are kidnapped and
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: the whole thing turns deadly did not happen on a
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: doctor's table. There's no quack doctor's fault. And remember the
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: friend who didn't make it. Ever, she's sitting there looking
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: at her clock. Hey, they were supposed to drop her
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: off and they'll be back in fifteen minutes. What happened?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Take a listen now. Two more from Cheryl Orange. So
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I called, I called my boyfriend, I called Tea's brother
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: and I said, something's not right. And I text my roommate.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: I said, something's not right. Nine o'clock, gut here, twelve o'clock,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: gout here, midnight, and then now we're into Saturday morning
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: at ten twenty three, it's literally a few minutes before checkout.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I'm like, dosn no win. I called the cops immediately.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: She called the cops, immediately, the US cops. But then
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: stunning and shocking news developed. Take a listen to our
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: friends at NBC. New images from Mexican authority show the
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: gunmen trailing their white minivan minutes before they opened fire.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Additional appear to show travel documents, luggage, debit cards, in
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: cash that investigators found inside the vehicle. In the aftermath
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: of the attack, Mexican authorities scrambled as several different hospitals
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: for days trying to track down victims, before finally locating
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: all four inside this wooden shack after speaking with one
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: victim's family, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham promising We're going
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: to unleash the fury and my to the United States
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: against these car tails. Time stories with Nancy Grace, you know,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Charyl McCollum joining me, found her and direct to the
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Coal Case Research Institute. Did you hear what the reporter said?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: I think that doctor Angela Arnold is correct. They were
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: trailing the purps, the kidnappers, the killers, were trailing these
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: four Americans, a white minivan with a North Carolina tag
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: plate on it from the moment they crossed the border. Absolutely,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: regardless of whether it's mistaken identity for Haitian drug dealers
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: or if it was just we're going to kidnap from Americans.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: The issue is they were not only targeted immediately, there
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: were two or three vehicles following them. So this cartail
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: they're known as the golf cartail, was six or seven
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: people deep following these individuals. There was no ransom, there
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: was no effort to contact their family, There was no
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: effort to contact Miss Orange, who's just less than twenty
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: miles away. So this was only for the purpose of
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: kidnapping and murdering these people, but for what gain if
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: there's no ransom. It is still confound. But guys, we're
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: learning more. It's not just a kidnap. Take close to
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: our friends, Simon Williams. They put out a request for
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: information through an email and a phone number, and after
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: some tips started coming in, they discovered the four South
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Carolina Natives inside this wooden house right here at eight
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: thirty in the morning on March seventh. It was about
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a thirty minute drive from the crash scene. Two of
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the victims were found dead and the other two were
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: found alive. Eric Williams was taken to the hospital that
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: you see right here. Now. They made one arrest, a
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: twenty four year old that you see right here, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: then the two victims that were found alive were turned
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: over to US authorities at the International Bridge in Brownsville, Texas.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: They wrote here that the remaining two would be turned
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: over after Mexican autopsy experts finished their investigation. Right Mexican
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: medical Examerus okay joining me now a special guest. Former
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, legal commentator and president West Coast Trial Lawyers,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: author of Harvard to hashtag. You can find him on
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Nima Romani. Nima, thank you for being with us.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure to have you on. Always happy
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: to be honest. Niema, I've got a question. How is
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: this happening just fifteen miles away, actually less than fifteen
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: miles away from a Texas city. I don't get it,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and I also don't understand the motivation here. We have
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: dead American bodies and I so far have heard nothing.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: What is this going to be? More quote Mexican justice.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Just like the drug lord that managed to get away
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: with an underground motorcycle track, remember him, Oh yeah, woking
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: forget El Chapo, famously escaping twice. I mean it's happening, Nancy,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: because of Mexico is unable or unwilling to control these cartels,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and they've only increased in power over the years because
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: they've gone from being middleman transporting Colombian cocaine or Afghan
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: heroin to controlling the entire production of purely synthetic drugs.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: And started with me Semside. I mean, now designers like
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: quc so now that they're construling the entire production and distribution,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and there's so much value in these drugs. The violence
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: is increasing. And the reason this is all happening is
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: because the level of corruption. It could be the locals, federals,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: even the Mexican military and politicians. Entire country is corrupt,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: and no one there is willing to take on these
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: cartels because all the politicians are in their pockets. You
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: know what's interesting, guys with me former federal prosecutor and
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: author Nima Ramani believe it or not, and I literally
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: wrote the book, including an extensive section on safety while
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: traveling abroad, and like the number one banner is don't
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: go to Mexico, believe it or not. As I was
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: looking at spring vacation with the twins, I actually considered
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Mexico because it was so cheap on the water, this
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: beautiful resort, you have sites to go to of historical significance,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: that I could drag the twins to all sorts of
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: water sports and fun things to do. I stopped myself
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: mid starch, and like, what am I thinking? I just
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: wrote this book for Pete's sake, I'm not going to Mexico.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: And then right after that we learn about these four
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Americans kidnapped, some of them murdered. I don't know if
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: there's just a willingness, a willingness to push away any
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: suggestion that it's a bad idea to vacate in Mexico.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, people are still going in drugs.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: It's right on our border. Question, do you what do
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: you believe NeiMa was the real motive for this? Cartel
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: usually does gonna make mistakes like this, and I can
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: tell you I put one of a thousand people in
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Cederalvers and most of them Mexican drug and human traffickers,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: and I never got an apology. And but going on
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the original Pointancy, I agree. I mean spring breakers are
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: going to Mexico. And one thing that needs to be
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: discusted now that a lot of Mexican cities are party destinations,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: places like Kloon Kancoon has always been popular. There are
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of drug deals going down in those cities.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: It's not the drugs that are coming north from Mexico
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: into the United States, it's the cartels who want to
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: control the very lucrative drug deals in these party cities
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: as well. And that's why we're seeing an increase in
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: violence there. Guys, this location, Matamoras is a level four
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: do not travel, But for some reason, these four Americans
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: seemingly go willingly and blind to the risks, some of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: them to their deaths. Take a listen to Janet Shamley
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: and CBS. Metamorris is under a level four do not
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: travel advisory for the US State Department, the same threat
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: level issued for a rock or run in Afghanistan. The
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: city of roughly half a million people has been home
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to warring factions of the Gulf drug cartel for decades.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: The crimes are often unreported journalists fearing for their safety.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Mario signs as a community leader. We hear about the cartels,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: we hear about the shootings, but when it involves kidnapping
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: or it involved Americans, it seems a very strong message
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: fright community. Here in Bronhill and all along the border,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: US officials are not identifying the Americans, citing privacy concerns.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: That's fifty thousand dollars FBI reward is not only for
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: the return of the victims, but also for the arrest
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: of the kidnappers. And there's more. Take a listen to
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Matt Rivers this morning. The stunning image five men tied
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: up You're a truck in Mexico blamed for the kidnapping
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: of four Americans allegedly turned over by the powerful drug cartel.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: They belonged to a handwritten note on the truck's windshield
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: claiming to be from the Gulf Cartel saying, quote, we
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: have decided to deliver those involved and directly responsible. The
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: image is obtained by ABC News from a source close
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: to the investigation. Also include this photo of guns, ammunition,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and body armor found in that truck. Body armor, guns ammunition,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: body armor, guns, ammunition, and cool parton joining me crime
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: online dot com inst to get a reporter. These four
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Americans never had a chance, body armor, guns, ammunition. They're
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: going for a tummy tuck for Pete's sake. They didn't answy.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: They never had a chance. And there's actually a video
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that one of them was taking, posting on their Facebook
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: and they're laughing and they're singing. They're driving down the road.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: We're headed to Mexico. We're having a fun trip. The
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: next video they post, you can hear them trying to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: follow their GPS. The GPS says make a less turn.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: They mistakenly make the right turn, and then the video
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: shows that they're being followed by multiple cars. The gunfire
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: starts into their minivan. They never had a chance. There
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: was no way for them to get out of this situation. Guys,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about the four people that were
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: found and that would instructure Cheryl McCollough. They're referred to
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: as four people, but they're not all four living people, no, Nancy.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And the thing that's so sad is there is a
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: video that their families have had to watch, I'm sure,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: and be made aware of. And the thing that strikes
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: me about this video before we talk about them is
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: this was broad daylight, Nancy. It's an open pickup truck
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: in the back where they put the victims. So after
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: shots are fired in the middle of the street, a
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: busy street, because other cars after this has occurred are
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: driving around them like it's a normal day. I'm just
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: got to get to my destination. So this tells you
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: this was not a blitz attack. If you watch the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: kidnappers after the shooting occurs, they're walking. This is not
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: a blitz, quick in and out like a bank robbery.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: This is not like an assassination where they're hit and gone.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: This was something that the kidnappers were not afraid. They
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: weren't afraid to show their face. They weren't afraid to
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: take their time, they weren't afraid of being seen. So
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: this tells you this is a normal occurrence in this town.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: So when the State Department says this isn't just a
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: warning to be cautious when you go there, we're telling
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: you do not go there. And sadly, this is what
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: has occurred to these four innocent people, and the ripple
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: effect to their family, to their friends, to their community
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: is going to be failed for a long time. Take
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eleven guys, our friends at
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: ABC The men blamed for this horrific abduction caught on
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: camera a week ago that left two Americans dead. On Thursday,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: state police finding them at the same spot in Matamoros
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: where the kidnapping took place. The men now in custody,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: though authorities not confirming whether these five were involved. Multiple
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Mexican law enforcement sources tell ABC News the cartel note
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: is believed to be legitimate, but neither ABC News nor
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: US officials have been able to verify the authenticity of
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: the letter's claims. Now we have Americans is dead. However,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: what we believe was a tummy tuck desire, I mean,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold, Even with covering criminal news all day long,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I actually considered a spring break to one of those
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: resorts in Mexico and then came to my senses and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: remembered everything I had researched and written, and don't be
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: a victim. Why do we go so blindly? What happens
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: to our common sense when it comes to vacation or
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: in this case, a girl's road trip for a tummy tuck?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: You know it's funny, Nancy. We were talking about this
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: this weekend and apparently even when people are planning their vacation.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: We know that when people are on vacation, they let
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: their guard down. Okay, we've talked about that several times
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: on your Apparently now even when people are planning their vacation,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: they let their guard down. We were talking to somebody
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: this weekend that told us, oh, yeah, I'm headed to
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Cancun next week. Are you sure that's a good idea?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not. And he just acted like it was no
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: big deal. He is planning his great trip to Cancun.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I immediately texted my little girl and I said, no
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: trips to Mexico. I don't know where y'all are going
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: for spring break, but it's not going to be Mexico.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: No f nds or butts about it, but DFC. You
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: also have to wonder how many people that are planning
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: these trips to Mexico or even listening to the news
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: or realize that there's a that there's a level for
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: alert to go to some of these places. It's scary,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, I'm telling you, you cannot convince people otherwise.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I also believe that the more money people spend to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: go on a trip, because some places are very expensive
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: in Mexico, and the more money people spend, the saves
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: that they think they are And I don't agree with
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: that at all. Out of the so called medical tourists
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: that left that day, two Zendel Brown and Shade Woodward,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: just ages twenty eight and thirty three, are dead. To
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor Nema Romani, NeiMa, do you think will
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: ever know what really happened, what the real motive was,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: because I believe Nama, if we never know the true motive,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: we will never be able to stop what happened to
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: these two victims. I don't think we will and this
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: is why. And you know, the cartel turning over these individuals.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's par for the courts for them. So
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: whenever I would troughs to que cartel members and I
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: would know they are cartel members because there's a small
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: handful of attorneys that represent these folks. What they do
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: is they plead guilty. They don't cooperate, They fall on
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the sword because the cartel is all about making money
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and protecting people at the top of the organization. The
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: individuals at the bottom, the fall guys here, they're never
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: going to talk because if they do, their families will
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: be killed. Romani, I just keep thinking of all those
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: photos of El Chapo having escaped Mexican prisons twice, and
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: of course he was a drug lord. I have no
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: doubt that these perpetrators will have an opportunity to escape
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: a Mexican prison and that will be maypaple and the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: wardens and the federales will just turn the other way
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and pretend they don't know. Oh, there's no doubt. I mean,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: there's no justice for these cartel members in Mexico. They're
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: not prosecuted, or if they are, they miraculously escape from
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: high security prisons. It's just not going to happen unless
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: they're arrested and extradited to the United States, or if
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: they're designated as terrorist organizations and the US military gets involved.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: That's the only way we're going to see justice for
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: these four I mean name aunt Romani. The cartels actually
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: hang dead bodies off bridges to serve as a warning
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to other infour months or turncoats. So who's going to
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: go up against the cartail They're nobody unless you want
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: to see somebody in your family hanging dead from a bridge. Fancy.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: They're incredibly violent, and just like you said, there's hanging,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: there's de competitions, and they're done in a very public
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: way to send a message and terrorize folks. They're no
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: difference from any other terrorist groups. That's why Mexicans are
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: deathly afraid of them. And obviously we've lost some Americans,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: but let's not forget about the thousands and thousands of
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Native Mexicans and migrants who have been killed and kidnapped
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: by the cartels. And yet we the US government continue
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: to prop up Mexico's government. You know what, I know
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: how to fight crime. I don't know what to do
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: about US politics, but I know this These murders should
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: not go unavenged. We wait as justice and alves good
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: boys