Latest / The Book Deal / Amie Kaufman on celebrating all the wins, setting writing goals, connecting with readers and the realities of bestseller lists.

Transcript

Amie Kaufman on celebrating all the wins, setting writing goals, connecting with readers and the realities of bestseller lists. · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Natasha Rai: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on
• 0:22
  Madeleine Cleary: how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Madeleine Cleary: So no matter what's.
• 0:26
  Madeleine Cleary: Stage of writing your at.
• 0:28
  Madeleine Cleary: We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Madeleine Cleary: I'm Tina Strachan I'm Madeleine Cleary.
• 0:32
  Madeleine Cleary: And I'm Natasha Rai And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors
• 0:37
  Speaker 7: one deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Speaker 7: The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners, the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:57
  Tina Strachan: Hello everyone.
• 0:57
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan and welcome to The Book Deal podcast and our very first author interview for 2026.
• 1:04
  Tina Strachan: We promised you a huge year of interviews, insights, author advice, and debut celebrations, and I am certain you'll not be disappointed with the huge line.
• 1:14
  Tina Strachan: We have for you this year and to start it all off with a bang.
• 1:17
  Tina Strachan: We have New York Times and USA today bestselling, internationally published and multi award-winning author of science fiction and fantasy, the phenomenal Amie Kaufman.
• 1:29
  Tina Strachan: Not only does Amie have a huge array of accolades to her name, which is testament to her storytelling brilliance, but Amie is one of the biggest champions for debut and aspiring authors, and is well loved for her honest connection with writers and readers.
• 1:45
  Tina Strachan: That's exactly what we are all about here at the Book Deal podcast, and why Amie Kaufman is the perfect way to bring in the new season.
• 1:54
  Tina Strachan: Amidst our conversation where Amie really pulls back the curtain and gives us some nitty gritty advice for handling everything from comp titles to bestseller goals to newsletters and social media.
• 2:05
  Tina Strachan: We celebrate Amie's brand new young adult book, red Star Rebels, which was released only days ago and takes us on a fast paced, high stakes, high chemistry romp through one of Amie's happiest fictional world's space.
• 2:18
  Tina Strachan: So go out and grab yourself a copy now.
• 2:21
  Tina Strachan: Enjoy this interview.
• 2:22
  Tina Strachan: I know it will set you up for the inspiration and motivation for a big year of writing.
• 2:32
  Tina Strachan: Amie congratulations on your brand new book, red Star Rebels.
• 2:37
  Tina Strachan: Thank
• 2:37
  Amie Kaufman: you.
• 2:38
  Tina Strachan: Very exciting.
• 2:39
  Amie Kaufman: You know, it feels like you wait forever for these things to come out, and then finally they do, and you're like, wait, what?
• 2:45
  Amie Kaufman: What?
• 2:45
  Amie Kaufman: Everyone's reading it.
• 2:48
  Amie Kaufman: How can this be?
• 2:49
  Amie Kaufman: So,
• 2:49
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 2:50
  Tina Strachan: Well, how long has it been, like since, how long did it take you to write this one?
• 2:54
  Amie Kaufman: that's a great question.
• 2:55
  Amie Kaufman: I don't know about you, but pandemic, I'm not very good at time anymore.
• 2:59
  Amie Kaufman: Um, something, some, I, I lost something that means I'm not good tracking it anymore.
• 3:04
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but I probably started writing it a couple of years ago.
• 3:08
  Amie Kaufman: I think.
• 3:08
  Amie Kaufman: Um, you know, the, the US publishers, they like to have everything locked a year out from publication, so, and I'm sort of, I'm doing, I'm doing maths in my head and thinking, well, okay, so I was in Vietnam in like September of 2023 and I was drafting then,
• 3:25
  Tina Strachan: Wow, okay.
• 3:25
  Amie Kaufman: So therefore I would've been drafting in sort of the back after Yeah.
• 3:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 3:30
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's okay.
• 3:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it does go super kind of slow and then super fast right at the end.
• 3:34
  Tina Strachan: So, and yeah, time does just sort of disappear, especially'cause you're working on other stuff as well.
• 3:38
  Tina Strachan: So it's sucking it all up, but,
• 3:39
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, that's the funny thing, isn't it?
• 3:41
  Amie Kaufman: When like, as a working author, this is out, but I'm in the middle of a different one.
• 3:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 3:46
  Amie Kaufman: Pond.
• 3:46
  Amie Kaufman: You know, I, I'm in a different galaxy now and, but I, I actually find that quite nice because it means that when you get to come back this one, you come back with a tiny bit of distance and you get really enjoy what you love about it, rather than only seeing things you think you should edit.
• 4:00
  Tina Strachan: Oh, right, yes.
• 4:01
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 4:01
  Tina Strachan: And revisit the world, is nice, isn't it?
• 4:03
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 4:03
  Tina Strachan: Because it's bit sad when they, when you finish writing it.
• 4:05
  Tina Strachan: But I do love that
• 4:06
  Amie Kaufman: it's, you get, you know,
• 4:08
  Tina Strachan: I love how
• 4:08
  Amie Kaufman: through and be like, oh
• 4:09
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Amie Kaufman: yeah, quite a good line.
• 4:11
  Amie Kaufman: You know?
• 4:11
  Amie Kaufman: That's a good joke.
• 4:12
  Amie Kaufman: I don't mind that one,
• 4:14
  Tina Strachan: But I love how it's described, speaking of that as a high stakes, high chemistry sci-fi romp, which I think is just a line to totally grab everybody.
• 4:24
  Tina Strachan: And it's, it's probably up there with the, um, with the byline on the front, which is, is hilarious.
• 4:30
  Tina Strachan: Li um, this is life or death?
• 4:32
  Tina Strachan: Probably.
• 4:33
  Tina Strachan: Death,
• 4:34
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, they, they were both me, uh, I was very firm on wanting them.
• 4:39
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, there were various conversations with various publishers in different countries about, you know, do we really want, this is life or death.do probably death, uh, on the And I was, I was emphatic that we did because I, I think, let me, how do I articulate why I that, uh, I had to do it when I was arguing it, so I should know.
• 5:00
  Amie Kaufman: For, for me, it's because I think with a cover, you really only of wanna do one thing, you know?
• 5:08
  Amie Kaufman: And I remember having this when we were to create the covers for Aurora Rising, and we were talking about the idea that if you do, let's say, because we were having this conversation Americans, we were saying if you do a comedy sketch about Thanksgiving, uh, only, it's only about like the Turkey.
• 5:25
  Amie Kaufman: Or about like a war, about whether you put marshmallows and sweet potato or something.
• 5:29
  Amie Kaufman: It's not about everything on the plate.
• 5:30
  Amie Kaufman: You pick one thing and you talk about the one thing.
• 5:34
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, a book is kind of like in that it's got romance and comedy action and this and that and the other thing.
• 5:40
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but you really only want one thing on the cover.
• 5:43
  Amie Kaufman: And so on the cover, what we have is this is an action adventure.
• 5:47
  Amie Kaufman: And so then for me it's like, what's the little, what's the wink, what's the little bit of like cranberry sauce I can put on that just doesn't take away from the main message of the cover, just gives you a little hint.
• 6:00
  Amie Kaufman: And so for me, it's having a byline that makes you laugh.
• 6:03
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, I think that, Yeah.
• 6:09
  Amie Kaufman: It gives, it gives that, that sense of like, oh, it's, but it's gonna be funny.
• 6:12
  Amie Kaufman: Like, it's gonna be action adventure, but not gonna take itself seriously.
• 6:15
  Amie Kaufman: And I think that's really important.
• 6:17
  Amie Kaufman: Um, anyway, I could do a whole podcast on components of a but that is, that's not the podcast
• 6:22
  Tina Strachan: we're doing today.
• 6:23
  Tina Strachan: I'm okay.
• 6:23
  Tina Strachan: That's another day.
• 6:24
  Tina Strachan: I'd love to do that.
• 6:25
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, but you are, you're right in, in like three, like two words and a couple of, and a couple of little dots.
• 6:31
  Tina Strachan: You've, you've put some humor into it there, which is, it's worked very well.
• 6:35
  Tina Strachan: So, um, well done with that one.
• 6:37
  Tina Strachan: But, but one liners and bylines are really tricky.
• 6:42
  Amie Kaufman: yeah, yeah.
• 6:42
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:43
  Amie Kaufman: They are, they are.
• 6:44
  Amie Kaufman: Tina.
• 6:44
  Amie Kaufman: Tina,
• 6:45
  Tina Strachan: So what do you have?
• 6:46
  Tina Strachan: But you do them amazingly.
• 6:47
  Tina Strachan: So, so tell us trick now.
• 6:49
  Tina Strachan: How do you do this?
• 6:51
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, so I have, I have very feelings about being able to pitch your book because I've, I have tried publishing books that I couldn't pitch quickly, and it's just a painful experience.
• 7:02
  Amie Kaufman: And I mean, the thing is, obviously the book is so much more that it's short pitch, like that goes, you know, I hope saying, although I will say it to be sure, but you, you want to be able to pitch a book quickly because we all judge a book quickly.
• 7:18
  Amie Kaufman: Like, you know, we are writers and we do it.
• 7:20
  Amie Kaufman: So I don't see.
• 7:21
  Amie Kaufman: I don't see why we should expect anyone else do differently and.
• 7:26
  Amie Kaufman: For me, being able to com like use what we call comp titles, you know, compare it to other things, whether it's or movies or video games or whatever, uh, allows people very quickly to get a sense of whether they wanna it up or not.
• 7:38
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and I, I guess the reason I'm kind of and justifying this is because my experience is that some people can be a little snobby about it.
• 7:44
  Amie Kaufman: people can be a little, like, my book can't possibly be reduced to, you know, a, a simple comparison.
• 7:51
  Amie Kaufman: And like, that I would say like, would you hand someone a plate of food and be like, I refuse to disclose what is.
• 7:56
  Amie Kaufman: You should eat it.
• 7:57
  Amie Kaufman: It's artistic Merit will speak to you.
• 7:59
  Amie Kaufman: Like, no, people have taste, people have, you people know what they like and so.
• 8:04
  Amie Kaufman: I think, you know, there's, you wanna be able to say like, know, oh, do you like sweet or Here's a pastry.
• 8:09
  Amie Kaufman: And it's got, you know, like a hint of Vegemite in it, or here's a, a pastry, it's all fruit.
• 8:15
  Amie Kaufman: You know, you wanna be able to give them some kind of direction as where you're going.
• 8:18
  Amie Kaufman: And for me, that's what comp titles do.
• 8:20
  Amie Kaufman: You know, it's a way of saying, you know, you know, I can visually see this as a chocolate cake, but is it sort of like a, you know, very serious one with coffee in it?
• 8:28
  Amie Kaufman: Or you know, is it covered with fruit and sprinkles?
• 8:31
  Amie Kaufman: Like, and so for me.
• 8:35
  Amie Kaufman: I think quite early in the process about what are my comp titles for a book.
• 8:40
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and one of the reasons I'm doing that is it helps me make decisions about the book.
• 8:46
  Amie Kaufman: So, for instance, with Red Star Rebels, decided very early on that my titles were gonna be, uh, the Martian.
• 8:54
  Amie Kaufman: And by that I mean we're stuck on Mars.
• 8:56
  Amie Kaufman: doing a lot of DIY ingenuity, you know, there's a risk things exploding, um, die hard, by which I mean, you know, we're, we're stuck in one place.
• 9:06
  Amie Kaufman: There's mercenaries, we're taking'em out one by one and, you know, a little bit of home alone, by which I mean ridiculous, you know, homemade booby traps and, and like maybe a little bit of speed, by which I mean, you know, a romance forming quickly and under, under pressure and a high stakes situation.
• 9:23
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 9:24
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but mostly I just say it's like the Ian meets home alone.
• 9:27
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, if I'm being less serious and if I'm trying to be more serious, I say like the mushroom meets diehard, uh, and.
• 9:34
  Amie Kaufman: People know what it is and they know if they wanna it up and they know if they're gonna enjoy it.
• 9:39
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, as I was saying, it also, uh, for me informs how I, how I write the book.
• 9:47
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know, with Red Star Rebels, the premise is we've got these two teens, uh, based on Mars evacuated.
• 9:54
  Amie Kaufman: They are left behind.
• 9:56
  Amie Kaufman: And then it out the evacuation was a cover for a crime.
• 9:59
  Amie Kaufman: The mercenaries arrive, they have to defend the base and try to survive.
• 10:03
  Amie Kaufman: And there's two versions of that book.
• 10:05
  Amie Kaufman: There is the version that I have written, uh, which is, you know, the diehard version.
• 10:10
  Amie Kaufman: Like when you watch diehard, you don't know a heap about Willis.
• 10:16
  Amie Kaufman: You know, his marriage isn't going great, you know, he is flow the country to try and sort it out.
• 10:19
  Amie Kaufman: You there are kids involved, you know, he is of world weary.
• 10:23
  Amie Kaufman: But you know, we don't have flashbacks within the movie to him and his wife arguing, or and his bachelor apartment in New York, or him showing up to kid's sports stage just as their event finishes and missing it.
• 10:37
  Amie Kaufman: Or like, you know, like, as you can see like that the way that I sort of reel those off, we all know what those bits would be, but because we know what they would be, they can just be implied with a phone call between him and his wife.
• 10:49
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and so like, that's the version of I did, you know, our, our two characters, you know, he's the, the grandson of the guy who settled Mars.
• 10:55
  Amie Kaufman: He's like a trust fund billionaire, and she's a ow ow away and a, you know, involuntary criminal, um, who, you know, was on the run debt collectors and his family her life.
• 11:05
  Amie Kaufman: And there's a different version of the book where we do all the stuff on earth well.
• 11:10
  Amie Kaufman: We do all of the succession style jockeying that's happening in his family.
• 11:13
  Amie Kaufman: And we do her, you know, dissent into poverty and all the things she tries and we, you know, use that as a.
• 11:21
  Amie Kaufman: Analogy for development of Mars and how the haves have nots, you know, taking your, you know, you can see that version as I say it, but I decided because I, I had decided I was gonna write The Marshal diehard.
• 11:32
  Amie Kaufman: I was like, no, I'm gonna do diehard version.
• 11:34
  Amie Kaufman: And it allowed me, this is a very long way of saying it, it gave me sort of a filter through which to pass lot of my writing decisions.
• 11:41
  Amie Kaufman: So for that, I think it's very useful as well as being able to pitch, uh, your book to people, but mostly also, oh, it's really hard if can't pitch your book to people.
• 11:50
  Amie Kaufman: I, um, yeah.
• 11:51
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I have, uh, a podcast called Pub Dates, uh, which is sort of two years of, of myself and Kate Armstrong talking about two of our books as they come out.
• 12:00
  Amie Kaufman: And there's an episode, a very early one, possibly the first one where we spend like an hour trying to work out how to these books, and we record it to make the point that like, it's not that easy.
• 12:10
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and because the Iss of the Gods is something I started in 2013, I started it way before I ever had this sort of.
• 12:19
  Amie Kaufman: This, this idea in mind that I was know how to pitch things.
• 12:22
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 12:23
  Amie Kaufman: And like, boy, did it show when I was trying to explain what book was to people.
• 12:26
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 12:27
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, because it meant that I, it me probably six months after the book came out to get really good at describing what it was about.
• 12:35
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, whereas this one I can do, I can do right now.
• 12:39
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it's solid.
• 12:40
  Tina Strachan: I like it.
• 12:41
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 12:41
  Tina Strachan: But it's so true.
• 12:42
  Tina Strachan: So you've got the Martian home alone, die hard.
• 12:45
  Tina Strachan: You say those three names of those movies and everybody knows, even if you haven't watched it, you know what
• 12:50
  Amie Kaufman: You know what it is,
• 12:51
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 12:51
  Tina Strachan: Which is so important because like you said, what you're describing and reading it on the back, if you had different comp titles, it could be a whole different picture in your mind.
• 13:00
  Amie Kaufman: Completely.
• 13:00
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 13:01
  Amie Kaufman: And that's certainly a piece of advice.
• 13:03
  Amie Kaufman: I know, I know we have a lot sort of aspiring and early career writers who listen is when you're picking those titles, present them to a bunch of people, not just writers, but you know, readers and just, you know, people in your family whatever and say, what do you think of when you think of x?
• 13:19
  Amie Kaufman: And make sure that they all of what you think of because it might be one of your That might be why you are using it as inspiration and a title, which means you might have a, a more complex interpretation of what it is than everyone
• 13:32
  Tina Strachan: So, yes, that's true.
• 13:33
  Tina Strachan: And I love that you use movies'cause I think that they're just, that they just create that picture in your mind really quickly.
• 13:38
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 13:39
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, sometimes I use books, but this one I think it's'cause it's such a fast moving action book, you know, Yeah.
• 13:44
  Amie Kaufman: It's, it's more of a movie than a book in ways.
• 13:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Tina Strachan: And you can use both at the same time for one for sure.
• 13:48
  Tina Strachan: You can say Die Hard Meats.
• 13:50
  Tina Strachan: Um, uh, give, gimme an example.
• 13:52
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Amie Kaufman: I mean the, mean the, well, the Mu is The mu was a
• 13:55
  Tina Strachan: it was, that's true.
• 13:56
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 13:56
  Tina Strachan: I read it that's, that's right.
• 13:58
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Tina Strachan: That's true.
• 13:59
  Tina Strachan: So, um, yeah, so you can use books as well.
• 14:01
  Tina Strachan: Um, you also mentioned video games.
• 14:04
  Tina Strachan: You like
• 14:04
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, I mean, so I write video games, so I think about that them a lot.
• 14:08
  Amie Kaufman: But I think you absolutely can.
• 14:10
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, you know, we, we saw the last of us on tv.
• 14:12
  Amie Kaufman: It was the ultimate.
• 14:12
  Amie Kaufman: But I think, you know, particularly video games with really strong world building can be really helpful that kind of thing.
• 14:19
  Amie Kaufman: I think, you know, and again, they've gotta be universal, but like if I said, oh, it's like Assassin's Creed, but set in, you know, the fifth element,
• 14:31
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 14:32
  Amie Kaufman: Like, you would be like, oh, okay, we're running around doing assassinations for a major, You know, for a secret organization and we're in like a super, uh, futuristic techno city.
• 14:43
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 14:43
  Amie Kaufman: Like,
• 14:43
  Tina Strachan: yeah, because that's, you
• 14:44
  Amie Kaufman: know's kind of gritty.
• 14:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 14:45
  Amie Kaufman: Like, yeah.
• 14:46
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 14:46
  Tina Strachan: Because the games, those games are stories as well.
• 14:48
  Tina Strachan: So, but I've never heard of, uh, coming up with your comp titles before, but I love that idea and I think I'm gonna try that next time, because it, like you said, it's like check, right?
• 14:57
  Tina Strachan: Like, as you're writing through, you can keep going.
• 15:00
  Tina Strachan: Um, just checking off, am I still hitting that, that theme that I was going for and that vibe, or have I wandered off down to some, some other
• 15:07
  Amie Kaufman: right, and, and like, you wandered off and you say, yes, I've wandered and I'm delighted, then that's
• 15:12
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 15:12
  Amie Kaufman: Fine.
• 15:13
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 15:13
  Amie Kaufman: of course.
• 15:14
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:14
  Amie Kaufman: But you know, like in this particular case this particular book, I had a very clear idea what I wanted it to be.
• 15:19
  Amie Kaufman: So it worked as a really filter.
• 15:21
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:21
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:22
  Tina Strachan: And the, and the comp titles are really important for Yeah.
• 15:25
  Tina Strachan: To communicating to your readers and potential readers and to the publishers as well.
• 15:29
  Tina Strachan: Like you said, a lot of people say, we need to know where the publishers wanna know where it'll sit on the shelf.
• 15:34
  Tina Strachan: Who is it sitting next to?
• 15:35
  Amie Kaufman: Absolutely.
• 15:36
  Amie Kaufman: Well, yeah, absolutely.
• 15:37
  Amie Kaufman: And you, you know, you always need to be able to say, you know, for readers of, if you loved, and that's also for booksellers, because booksellers have a lot, a lot of coming in every week.
• 15:47
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 15:47
  Amie Kaufman: And like, they are book lovers, but they are superhuman.
• 15:50
  Amie Kaufman: They cannot necessarily read all of the books as they come in.
• 15:53
  Amie Kaufman: So.
• 15:55
  Amie Kaufman: For them.
• 15:55
  Amie Kaufman: You know, being able to get something from the publisher that says it's for readers of this, or it's like, this meets this.
• 16:02
  Amie Kaufman: You are giving them the gift of being able to hand sell that book, which is what they would love to do.
• 16:06
  Amie Kaufman: But if you give them a little bit of help explaining what it's about, I think, you know.
• 16:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Tina Strachan: And shows you that you know your market as well, where you, where you marketing.
• 16:14
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 16:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 16:16
  Tina Strachan: So tell us a little bit more about, uh, red Star Revels.
• 16:19
  Tina Strachan: Were you trying to send a bit of a message with this book, or is it just really like, it says it's a, just a nice, uh, fun action filled rock.
• 16:30
  Amie Kaufman: It's, I mean, partly it was me, I was trying to decide what to write next, and I was chatting, um, to an also of mine, Alexandra Bracken, and I was saying, just, I've got all these ideas and I don't know.
• 16:41
  Amie Kaufman: And she said, if you could just do anything that would make you happy, what would you do?
• 16:45
  Amie Kaufman: And I said, I think I'd go back to space.
• 16:48
  Amie Kaufman: Like after writing all of Illumina and all of Aurora and, you know, broken stars before it, I was ready for a little break, but I was like, I think, I think I wanna go to my happy place.
• 16:56
  Amie Kaufman: And she's like, well that sounds like great reason to do it.
• 16:58
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 16:59
  Amie Kaufman: And so that was sort of step one.
• 17:01
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but I think the other thing I really like about science fiction is even when you set out write a romp like I have, like, it's just, you know, banter and romance and fun and, you know, action scenes.
• 17:14
  Amie Kaufman: I don't think there's any way to write sci-fi book without putting some part of our society the lens and having a thick about it.
• 17:21
  Amie Kaufman: And, you know, in this case it's um, it's very much question I have in my mind the moment of sort of how are we going to go into space?
• 17:28
  Amie Kaufman: Are we gonna do it for all mankind or are we gonna do it in a way, you know, are we gonna let corporations go up slap their logos all over And, you know, what happens, happens.
• 17:39
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and, and you know, obviously I'm hoping for the former.
• 17:43
  Amie Kaufman: And, you know, one of the things we do with sci-fi, you know, in, in a more pronounced way, I than any other genre is we take a question we're asking today and we project our current course of action forward into future, and we take a look at it like, is this what you want?
• 17:55
  Amie Kaufman: Is this not what you want?
• 17:56
  Amie Kaufman: You know, uh, so yeah, for me it's, it's, it is fun and full of banter action and romance and, you know, things exploding in unexpected ways.
• 18:06
  Amie Kaufman: And also it is a question about, you know, how how can we ethically and for all mankind explore space?
• 18:13
  Amie Kaufman: Because I feel like after the events of the last year or so, we, you know, we're probably thinking about that more than ever.
• 18:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Amie Kaufman: Absolutely.
• 18:20
  Tina Strachan: Um,
• 18:20
  Amie Kaufman: like, I know this sounds wild, but when I started drafting this, Elon Musk wasn't a particularly public figure.
• 18:27
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 18:28
  Amie Kaufman: And over the course of me drafting and then editing this, his rise to political prominence and the, I mean, you know, he was known as being the guy who did and that kind of thing, and, you know, but.
• 18:38
  Amie Kaufman: He wasn't sort of someone that everybody knew who he was because he was now literally in the US government.
• 18:43
  Amie Kaufman: And I'm watching all of this go on as I, as, as I am editing this book, I've written about like, how much should let corporations get involved in public interest That I'm like, too much prediction, eh.
• 18:54
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 18:55
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 18:56
  Amie Kaufman: What have you done?
• 18:58
  Tina Strachan: But absolutely why we need these fun books that are just a fun romp as well, you know, because there is so much seriousness going on in the, in world at the moment.
• 19:05
  video1151840715: We
• 19:06
  Amie Kaufman: can do both.
• 19:06
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 19:06
  Amie Kaufman: absolutely.
• 19:06
  Amie Kaufman: We can absolutely.
• 19:08
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 19:08
  Amie Kaufman: Do both.
• 19:08
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Amie Kaufman: Like art.
• 19:09
  Amie Kaufman: art, Art is always political.
• 19:11
  Amie Kaufman: It it, every choice you make makes it political, but that doesn't mean we can't be having a great time.
• 19:16
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:17
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Tina Strachan: Um, now Amie I I wanted to chat to a little bit about bestseller lists because
• 19:24
  Amie Kaufman: Yes.
• 19:24
  Tina Strachan: you know, you've been on them quite a few times now, um, multiple times, with your debut novel, um, New York Times bestsellers, uh, USA today.
• 19:34
  Tina Strachan: And these are words that make many debut authors and, um, and seasoned authors uh, actually, uh, quite tingly when they hear these Sure.
• 19:44
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 19:44
  Tina Strachan: Um, so give us a little bit of an insight.
• 19:47
  Tina Strachan: uh, Amie how does, how does this work?
• 19:49
  Tina Strachan: How does it, how do, what does it mean to you?
• 19:51
  Tina Strachan: How does it feel to be a bestseller?
• 19:53
  Tina Strachan: And is it something we should all have on our list of goals and achievements?
• 19:59
  Amie Kaufman: Well, I mean, let's start with that, which is like a great big no, and I am, I'm very much aware that someone who is a New York bestseller saying it's not that important to become one.
• 20:10
  Amie Kaufman: You know, blah, blah.
• 20:11
  Amie Kaufman: Like I hear, I hear myself.
• 20:13
  Amie Kaufman: I do.
• 20:13
  Amie Kaufman: But also having done it and also being, you know, 15 years into my, my published career now, you know, I, I do actually have sort of experience and insight this stuff now.
• 20:25
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and you know, I have done it both ways because although my debut did hit the New York bestseller list, it did.
• 20:31
  Amie Kaufman: So 13 months after it came out, uh, it did so after a year of word of mouth, uh, and it was when, because in the US they published first.
• 20:41
  Amie Kaufman: It was when the paperback came out 13 months later, and not even in first week that it hit the New York Times list.
• 20:47
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know, it's, it's not like I've never had a, a, a moment in my career where I wasn't bestseller, but it is one of those things that drives people gently around the bend and we don't control it.
• 21:02
  Amie Kaufman: We'll never control it.
• 21:05
  Amie Kaufman: They're not even bestseller lists.
• 21:07
  Amie Kaufman: Like the New York Times bestseller list is not top 10 bestselling books in order.
• 21:11
  Amie Kaufman: It's an edita in a edited, a curated editorial.
• 21:15
  Amie Kaufman: What I'm gonna say.
• 21:16
  Amie Kaufman: List.
• 21:16
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know, there are elements there that none of us control.
• 21:21
  Tina Strachan: And
• 21:23
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, we don't even have a bestseller in Australia, which is something that I is on my long-term to-do list to try and work on because we have bestsellers from individual bookshops.
• 21:32
  Amie Kaufman: We don't have a bestseller list of of record.
• 21:34
  Amie Kaufman: And I think we had one that focused on Australian in particular that would help the Australian like that, I would, I would be into, it would help the Australian public know, which were the Australian titles to buy.
• 21:45
  Amie Kaufman: Because I think a lot of readers actually love to buy Australian titles, but they don't necessarily know who's who.
• 21:50
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 21:51
  Amie Kaufman: But look, I mean, I would say that your goals in publishing should be things you have some chance of controlling.
• 21:56
  Amie Kaufman: And this is one that no one, I mean, unless you are rich enough that you have$250,000 and a warehouse sitting around and, and a plan to buy.
• 22:04
  Amie Kaufman: Many, many copies of your book, in which case, I guess with God and you wanna be my friend?
• 22:08
  Amie Kaufman: But you know, the rest of the time it's not something you can control.
• 22:13
  Amie Kaufman: It's not something your publisher control, although they can certainly try to boost you in direction.
• 22:17
  Amie Kaufman: You can't control whether they try to boost in that direction.
• 22:21
  Amie Kaufman: And I think focusing on something a marker of your success or worth that you have no chance of controlling is just, you know, like it's the path to madness.
• 22:31
  Amie Kaufman: Whereas there are things that you can control, you know, and things that you control are sort of how you feel about what you've written and how proud are of it and how you interact with your readers.
• 22:40
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, those, the relationships you have in the writing community.
• 22:43
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, if you, if you want things you can control, you can say, I'm gonna try and drop into bookshops and, and meet booksellers.
• 22:50
  Amie Kaufman: You know, there things that you can do, but gee, bestsellers to not one of them.
• 22:54
  Amie Kaufman: And, And so, you know, ditto awards.
• 22:58
  Tina Strachan: yeah, I was gonna say, and competitions and things like that as
• 23:01
  Amie Kaufman: It's, Yeah, You, you, your goal could be to enter the competition, you can't have a goal to win it because, you know,
• 23:07
  Tina Strachan: You
• 23:08
  Amie Kaufman: judges, different years.
• 23:09
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 23:09
  Amie Kaufman: Different entries.
• 23:10
  Amie Kaufman: You know, I, um, I spent 2025 reading, oh gosh, just a lot of Australian young adult novels because I was one the judges for the Prime Minister's award.
• 23:19
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and obviously I'm not gonna chat about the judging process, but, you know, think it's very safe to say, and I think anyone agree that in, in my year, the three of us we were a very harmonious judging panel.
• 23:31
  Amie Kaufman: We all felt really great about our shortlist.
• 23:32
  Amie Kaufman: We really got along in another year.
• 23:35
  Amie Kaufman: Three people might have been equally harmonious and just taken a completely different view
• 23:39
  Tina Strachan: mm-hmm.
• 23:39
  Amie Kaufman: Of the books.
• 23:39
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know, there's just this element of chance in there that you can't possibly account for.
• 23:44
  Amie Kaufman: So,
• 23:45
  Tina Strachan: absolutely.
• 23:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:46
  Tina Strachan: You, you dunno what they're looking for.
• 23:47
  Tina Strachan: And they could be thinking, oh and it could also be things that are happening in the world at the moment and are looking for something more lighthearted or they are looking for something that digs deeper things.
• 23:55
  Tina Strachan: completely.
• 23:56
  Tina Strachan: You can never control that.
• 23:57
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:57
  video1151840715: Yeah.
• 23:57
  Amie Kaufman: You know, they could be thinking, you know, like you're, you're writing, I mean, less something like PMs, I think, where you just really are just on the merits of these But maybe you're doing a more local and I think, you know what, you know, we've, we've, we've had a or fantasy short story win for the last years.
• 24:12
  Amie Kaufman: Let's really look and just see we can find something we love that's, you know, a contemporary story so that those authors know it's still worth, you know, you just have no idea.
• 24:21
  Amie Kaufman: And, and that is be clear, not based on anything I've ever judged, but you know, it, you, you it and you think, well, that's a very realistic and reasonable thing for them to be having a conversation about.
• 24:31
  Amie Kaufman: So
• 24:31
  Tina Strachan: absolutely.
• 24:32
  Amie Kaufman: the, the goals.
• 24:33
  Amie Kaufman: So need to be things you control mm-hmm.
• 24:37
  Amie Kaufman: 'cause we are so bad.
• 24:39
  Amie Kaufman: Can I do my tiny rant celebrations?
• 24:41
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 24:41
  Tina Strachan: Rant away.
• 24:42
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I, I, I know, I know.
• 24:44
  Amie Kaufman: You know how I feel about this.
• 24:46
  Amie Kaufman: I just think we as writers are so good.
• 24:51
  Amie Kaufman: Moving the goalposts on ourselves.
• 24:53
  Amie Kaufman: So we say, if I can start writing my book, that will be amazing.
• 24:56
  Amie Kaufman: We start writing it and we go, well, you've only just begun, you?
• 25:00
  Amie Kaufman: And then we say, if I can write the first act, oh, you know, I'll really be on my way.
• 25:03
  Amie Kaufman: And then you write the first act you go, well yeah, but it's gonna need a lot of work, isn't it?
• 25:07
  Amie Kaufman: And then you say, if I could draft book, you know, incredible.
• 25:11
  Amie Kaufman: And barely anyone drafts book.
• 25:12
  Amie Kaufman: And then you draft it and you go, yeah, but it's terrible, isn't it?
• 25:14
  Amie Kaufman: You know?
• 25:15
  Amie Kaufman: First drafts are always terrible.
• 25:17
  Amie Kaufman: And then, you know, ditto editing it.
• 25:19
  Amie Kaufman: Ditto querying people.
• 25:20
  Amie Kaufman: Ditto publishing the book.
• 25:21
  Amie Kaufman: You publish the book then you go, oh yeah, but not on any bestseller list.
• 25:24
  Amie Kaufman: didn't win an award.
• 25:25
  Amie Kaufman: You know, I went to a bookshop once and it wasn't in it.
• 25:28
  Amie Kaufman: And I just think like.
• 25:31
  Amie Kaufman: We are animals and we work on a reward system.
• 25:35
  Amie Kaufman: And when you continuously your little brain a reward, and then every time it reaches the where it was told it would get the reward, you instead hit it with a stick.
• 25:43
  Amie Kaufman: Your brain is not gonna wanna do the thing.
• 25:46
  Amie Kaufman: So if for no other reason than this, I would say celebrate all the time.
• 25:52
  Amie Kaufman: Celebrate every little, I'm a great celebrator.
• 25:55
  Amie Kaufman: We've always got champagne in the fridge at our If anyone comes to our house something's gone right for them, we, we're popping champagne for them.
• 26:01
  Amie Kaufman: Like, I love to celebrate stuff.
• 26:03
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and, but that's a very deliberately cultivated skill.
• 26:06
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 26:06
  Amie Kaufman: But, so I guess, you know, the, the, the, the, the top note reason to do is if no other re you will stop yourself from writing eventually you keep beating yourself up.
• 26:14
  Amie Kaufman: But I would also say, I guess, you know, and this is a little more abstract, but you are going to have spent the time doing this thing one way or another.
• 26:25
  Amie Kaufman: So you can it miserable.
• 26:27
  Amie Kaufman: or you can spend it remembering that you get, you are voluntarily doing a thing that you really love and, and enjoying it and celebrating it being like, got some words down.
• 26:36
  Amie Kaufman: And if you're going to have spent the time anyway, I, I can't recommend highly enough spending it.
• 26:42
  Amie Kaufman: In a, in a way that you know is positive celebrates what you're doing and Yeah,
• 26:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 26:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 26:46
  Tina Strachan: You spend a lot of time it.
• 26:47
  Tina Strachan: It's a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, so you might as well find joy in it.
• 26:51
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 26:52
  Tina Strachan: been really absolutely listening to some, uh, podcasts recently that talk about setting goals and you know where you wanna be.
• 26:58
  Tina Strachan: And it does talk about, um, like we were just saying, mate, if have something on your list, like I wanna be a New York Times Yeah.
• 27:06
  Tina Strachan: That's your goal.
• 27:07
  Tina Strachan: Uh, have a think about why that is, though.
• 27:09
  Tina Strachan: Like what is the
• 27:10
  Amie Kaufman: core
• 27:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, core Need that.
• 27:12
  Amie Kaufman: What will that give you?
• 27:13
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:14
  video1151840715: Is
• 27:14
  Amie Kaufman: that validation is that you think you'll be rich?
• 27:17
  Amie Kaufman: Is that Yeah.
• 27:18
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Amie Kaufman: You know, is it that girl at school?
• 27:20
  Amie Kaufman: Like, what is
• 27:20
  Tina Strachan: it Yes.
• 27:21
  Tina Strachan: That's trying to prove a point?
• 27:22
  Tina Strachan: or is it, is it actually because you, you equate that with, um, well, I will be, it means that I will be connecting with more readers or something.
• 27:32
  Tina Strachan: And if that's, then, if that's what really want to connect with more readers, then the New York Times bestseller is, is prob maybe not the way to go and do the thing that brings you joy and, and that do have control over and connecting with your readers.
• 27:44
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:45
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 27:45
  Amie Kaufman: Well, and I think it's also, I think for a a lot of people they feel that hitting a bestseller list Is a validation of their writing.
• 27:53
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 27:53
  Amie Kaufman: And to that, wanna say, and I think this becomes clearer to authors that they get into their careers, that that's just not the case.
• 28:01
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, I know so many authors who are unbelievably who blow me away, who are not gonna hit the New York Times list.
• 28:09
  Amie Kaufman: And it's not a lack of merit.
• 28:11
  Amie Kaufman: It's that, you know, they haven't been set up with kind of bonkers marketing campaign that creates a New York Times bestseller.
• 28:15
  Amie Kaufman: That's the difference.
• 28:17
  Amie Kaufman: And I think it's a great pity went, oh, hello?
• 28:22
  Amie Kaufman: Oh, are you coming on my lap?
• 28:23
  Amie Kaufman: Okay.
• 28:23
  Amie Kaufman: Hang on.
• 28:23
  Amie Kaufman: on.
• 28:26
  Amie Kaufman: For those on there's a puppy.
• 28:27
  Amie Kaufman: Now for those, for those not, you'll just have to imagine, Yeah.
• 28:31
  Tina Strachan: Um,
• 28:31
  Amie Kaufman: um, she's come up
• 28:32
  Tina Strachan: cute, Very waggy tail.
• 28:34
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 28:34
  Amie Kaufman: Say Hi Molly.
• 28:35
  Amie Kaufman: Hi.
• 28:36
  Amie Kaufman: She's like, I've only come up here to see if my mama is eating breakfast and it appears she is not.
• 28:40
  Amie Kaufman: So I'll be off again in a minute.
• 28:41
  Amie Kaufman: 'cause there are no crus.
• 28:43
  Amie Kaufman: Um, but you know, it's, it's, we all know those authors who wear like you are incredible.
• 28:48
  Amie Kaufman: deserve the world.
• 28:49
  Amie Kaufman: And they're not gonna get the world.
• 28:52
  Amie Kaufman: But for a lot of them that doesn't matter because they don't define the
• 28:57
  Tina Strachan: mm-hmm.
• 28:58
  Amie Kaufman: As the New York Times
• 28:58
  Tina Strachan: That's right.
• 28:59
  Tina Strachan: and they be absolutely 100%, uh, happy and fulfilled with where they are.
• 29:05
  Tina Strachan: The, New York Times stem means nothing.
• 29:07
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:07
  Amie Kaufman: and I know it is so trite I apologize, but it really is a case of if you're not happy without it, you will not be happy with it.
• 29:15
  Amie Kaufman: Because I have watched this.
• 29:17
  Amie Kaufman: time, and again, someone gets a huge book deal or they get the New York Times or they get whatever the big achievement was, and they fist pump and they scream their excitement.
• 29:29
  Amie Kaufman: And then the very next thought is, oh my God, how am I gonna do this again?
• 29:33
  Tina Strachan: Don't.
• 29:33
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 29:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 29:34
  Tina Strachan: Well, there's all that, that comes with it
• 29:36
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 29:36
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 29:36
  Amie Kaufman: They don't even enjoy it.
• 29:37
  Amie Kaufman: They just, the immediate thought there goes puppy, the immediate thought is.
• 29:44
  Amie Kaufman: How can I possibly write another book that's gonna get the New York Times bestseller list or yeah.
• 29:48
  Amie Kaufman: Oh my God, how can I possibly enough books to justify this advance?
• 29:52
  Amie Kaufman: You know?
• 29:52
  Amie Kaufman: And it just,
• 29:55
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 29:55
  Amie Kaufman: yeah.
• 29:56
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 29:56
  Amie Kaufman: If you're not tri, it may be but true also, if you're not happy without it, it's not bringing you
• 30:01
  Tina Strachan: No, absolutely.
• 30:03
  Tina Strachan: Um, I.
• 30:05
  Tina Strachan: Wanted you, we were talking before about celebrating.
• 30:08
  Tina Strachan: I love the amount food out analogies in our conversation, um, and popping champagne, always food,
• 30:12
  Amie Kaufman: wherever I'm, am.
• 30:13
  Tina Strachan: Do you still,'cause you've got, um, quite a few books out now, Amie Yes.
• 30:18
  Tina Strachan: Do you still celebrate every single one?
• 30:21
  Tina Strachan: Do you still, like on, on launch day, do you Yeah.
• 30:24
  Tina Strachan: do something special?
• 30:26
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Amie Kaufman: Probably more than I used I think.
• 30:28
  Amie Kaufman: I think I used to think, oh, I be on social media doing X, Y, Z, or I better be doing whatever.
• 30:34
  Amie Kaufman: Whereas these days I'm more just like, yeah.
• 30:36
  Amie Kaufman: Best of luck little book like.
• 30:39
  Amie Kaufman: Um, so this year, I mean, this year I, I celebrated, quote unquote celebrated, uh, by getting my migraine which is like 43 injections in my head.
• 30:48
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, great.
• 30:48
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but there is an incredible Japanese a block from my neurologist, So I did take myself in the end for a very nice Japanese meal afterwards.
• 30:58
  Amie Kaufman: Yes.
• 30:58
  Amie Kaufman: Oh.
• 30:58
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and, you know, which was my little, my little treat and, and celebration.
• 31:03
  Amie Kaufman: But yeah.
• 31:04
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, I'll, um, I'll be, I'll do some events in Melbourne and Adelaide and Brisbane and the nice thing about not having a list here in Australia is you don't have to cram all into the first week.
• 31:16
  Tina Strachan: Oh, nice.
• 31:17
  Amie Kaufman: Like, you're not trying to hit a and maximize your sales.
• 31:20
  Amie Kaufman: Okay.
• 31:20
  Amie Kaufman: You're actually spreading them out over the first few weeks is great.
• 31:24
  Amie Kaufman: Oh, that's
• 31:24
  Tina Strachan: nice.
• 31:25
  Amie Kaufman: As we record this week, uh, tomorrow I'll go to Adelaide and I'll do an event there and like, I don't know what the Adelaide crowd will be like, but I just really like to go.
• 31:34
  Amie Kaufman: I haven't, I haven't been in a while.
• 31:36
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and then I'll do Melbourne, and then the following week I'll actually spend couple of days, uh, going to bookshops around Melbourne to sign stock and say Hi.
• 31:46
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and then I'll go up to Brisbane.
• 31:47
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 31:48
  Amie Kaufman: But, you know, that'll, it'll, this stuff will end up being two and three weeks after the book out.
• 31:51
  Amie Kaufman: And we have that luxury in Australia that the US does not
• 31:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Tina Strachan: Oh, that's nice.
• 31:56
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, so pretty hectic over there.
• 31:57
  Tina Strachan: Is it when you, when your book first comes out.
• 32:01
  Amie Kaufman: I think people wanna try and concentrate sales into first week in the hope of hitting, you know, some kind bestseller list, which, you know, might be regional or it might be, you know, it might be the New York Times, but I think we, it's so interesting to me that you will so often, and, and I'll mention because it's a mistake that I often see early career make.
• 32:19
  Amie Kaufman: They do a huge amount of buildup the book comes out.
• 32:22
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 32:22
  Amie Kaufman: And then the week that the book comes out, they like trumpet it from, know, the rooftops and then maybe they do it in second week and then you'll see post something like, you know, I'm being so exhausted from this book launch, it's been incredible, but I'm so tired.
• 32:37
  Amie Kaufman: I'm gonna take a little time offline and refocus on my work.
• 32:40
  Amie Kaufman: And, you know, thank you all for reading
• 32:41
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 32:42
  Amie Kaufman: And like, that's a beautiful sentiment.
• 32:44
  Amie Kaufman: but assuming that they wanna sell a a lot books, which I am assuming is what all of that previous effort was aimed at.
• 32:50
  Amie Kaufman: You know, like if you're, if you're more relaxed, this maybe doesn't apply, but assuming that your goal is, I wanna.
• 32:56
  Amie Kaufman: A lot of books.
• 32:56
  Amie Kaufman: That's why I did all that socials beforehand.
• 32:58
  Amie Kaufman: That's why I'm doing all of it.
• 33:00
  Amie Kaufman: Then on, on that basis.
• 33:05
  Amie Kaufman: The returns period for bookshops is is in the US and I dunno if it's same here, I think it is, is like six to eight weeks.
• 33:11
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 33:12
  Amie Kaufman: So actually you wanna be marketing that book all that time to get people going into the bookshop and picking up copies so that they reorder rather than returning.
• 33:21
  Amie Kaufman: mean, this is me really pulling the curtain aside a little bit here, but that's, I, I, I feel this is what your listeners
• 33:27
  Tina Strachan: value out.
• 33:28
  Tina Strachan: It is really important.
• 33:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Tina Strachan: I think we have a little bit longer here.
• 33:31
  Tina Strachan: I think we've got six, sometimes 12 up to 12 months, I think, for returns So we do, so that's even more important.
• 33:37
  Tina Strachan: There's a long, there's a long push there.
• 33:39
  Amie Kaufman: This is the thing is, if you just like go and have a lie down two weeks, like no, no, no.
• 33:44
  Amie Kaufman: You are still in the period where the booksellers probably haven't had a chance to read your book.
• 33:48
  Amie Kaufman: And so you can draw attention to it by having people walk into bookshops and buy it, which may be partly through your efforts.
• 33:55
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know, don't.
• 33:57
  Amie Kaufman: don't stop.
• 33:58
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Tina Strachan: It's longevity.
• 33:59
  Tina Strachan: I think that's what you want, isn't it?
• 34:01
  Tina Strachan: I mean, to sell heaps in the first couple of weeks is great, but really you,
• 34:04
  Amie Kaufman: great.
• 34:04
  Tina Strachan: you want that longevity so that they do get reordered and you do build this following, like you said, your first, your debut book was, it 13 months or something 13 months afterwards.
• 34:13
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:14
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 34:14
  Amie Kaufman: And we chatted about it for 13 months.
• 34:16
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 34:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Amie Kaufman: It was, God bless.
• 34:19
  Amie Kaufman: So in the US um, the New York Times list comes out on a Wednesday afternoon,
• 34:26
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 34:26
  Amie Kaufman: And so here in Australia that's a Thursday morning.
• 34:29
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and so in so far as I ever thought about it, I thought about it as a Thursday morning.
• 34:35
  Amie Kaufman: Thing.
• 34:36
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and so I was on tour for book two in that series, funnily enough, And my writing partner, Meg and I, in a hotel room and we start getting these emails from our agents saying like, we we're gonna be calling you in five minutes.
• 34:50
  Amie Kaufman: It's urgent.
• 34:51
  Amie Kaufman: And.
• 34:53
  Amie Kaufman: I thought someone had died, Tina.
• 34:55
  Tina Strachan: Oh yeah, I
• 34:56
  Amie Kaufman: was, yeah, we were, well, it was only six weeks after I'd my dad.
• 34:59
  Amie Kaufman: So I was very much in that head space and we thought something awful happened.
• 35:03
  Amie Kaufman: We thought that it was them saying, make sure you're together.
• 35:07
  Amie Kaufman: Make you're sitting down like we're gonna call with bad news.
• 35:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, right.
• 35:10
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and I couldn't, I didn't, I kind of, I don't know why I thought they were the ones breaking the about
• 35:16
  Tina Strachan: your,
• 35:16
  Amie Kaufman: but.
• 35:17
  Tina Strachan: family, but yes,
• 35:18
  Amie Kaufman: Right.
• 35:18
  Amie Kaufman: But, you know, I was the
• 35:19
  Tina Strachan: brain of strange things.
• 35:20
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 35:20
  Amie Kaufman: well, and I was on and I was very tired.
• 35:22
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah,
• 35:22
  Tina Strachan: yeah, yeah.
• 35:22
  Amie Kaufman: I hadn't slept well and I don't, I think my brain to some degree still wasn't really even back in place after my dad, but they, they ring and my editor's on the line as well.
• 35:32
  Amie Kaufman: And, and says, well, and I said, well, what?
• 35:35
  Amie Kaufman: And that's when they all realized we had no idea what was going on.
• 35:38
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, Uh, because to add to everything else, it was a Wednesday afternoon when this was happening and in my head,
• 35:43
  Tina Strachan: Oh yes,
• 35:44
  Amie Kaufman: our seller calls don't on a Wednesday.
• 35:46
  Tina Strachan: Oh yeah.
• 35:46
  Tina Strachan: yes.
• 35:47
  Tina Strachan: Oh gosh.
• 35:48
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 35:48
  Tina Strachan: Oh, well that would've been a lovely relief then.
• 35:50
  Tina Strachan: Who would've
• 35:51
  Amie Kaufman: was it ever,
• 35:51
  Tina Strachan: it could have boil
• 35:52
  Amie Kaufman: it ever mind.
• 35:52
  Amie Kaufman: And, and then we discussed that ourselves off, went did an, an evening event and, um, came home and ordered chocolate ice cream
• 36:00
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 36:00
  Tina Strachan: And, and
• 36:01
  Amie Kaufman: life.
• 36:01
  Amie Kaufman: And Life Life goes on.
• 36:01
  Amie Kaufman: to Disney.
• 36:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 36:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah,
• 36:02
  Amie Kaufman: pretty much.
• 36:04
  Tina Strachan: Oh,
• 36:04
  Amie Kaufman: pretty
• 36:05
  Tina Strachan: much.
• 36:05
  Tina Strachan: That's incredible.
• 36:11
  Olivia Tolich: Hi Book Deal Pod.
• 36:12
  Olivia Tolich: My name's Olivia Tolich and I'm the author of Text's brand new Romcom Side Character Energy, which is out on the third of Feb 2026.
• 36:21
  Olivia Tolich: Side character energy follows Gertie as she comes to realize she's nothing but a supporting actor.
• 36:26
  Olivia Tolich: In her friend Be's glamorous, romantic Life, she becomes determined to find and unleash her own main character energy.
• 36:33
  Olivia Tolich: And she drags new Reish, acquaintance Arthur along for the ride.
• 36:37
  Olivia Tolich: But more than just finding out who she is and perhaps falling in love, this quest forces Gertie to confront some tough questions about her life, her choices, and most importantly, her friendship with B.
• 36:49
  Olivia Tolich: A little bit about me.
• 36:50
  Olivia Tolich: I'm a Melbourne based author and readers will find bits of Melbourne woven throughout the book, and I work in educational publishing, though it's definitely very different being on the other side of the publishing equation side.
• 37:03
  Olivia Tolich: Character Energy is not my first manuscript, but it's my third, my first novel.
• 37:07
  Olivia Tolich: There's a 90,000 word historical fiction epic set in 12th century England that no one wanted to publish or represent.
• 37:14
  Olivia Tolich: I then wrote a rom-com that helped me secure an agent, but no book deal.
• 37:18
  Olivia Tolich: And then side Character Energy is what finally got me my deal.
• 37:23
  Olivia Tolich: So it took roughly five years, 100 queries, and at least 250,000 words to get here, but it was worth every second.
• 37:32
  Olivia Tolich: It has been an absolute dream to work with text, bringing this book to life.
• 37:36
  Olivia Tolich: I love it so much, and I hope you love it too.
• 37:39
  Olivia Tolich: Happy reading, whatever it is you're choosing to read.
• 37:46
  Tina Strachan: Besides, um, you are the bestseller lists.
• 37:50
  Tina Strachan: People don't just love you for your bestselling Amie They love you for your willingness to share your knowledge and connect readers and writers like you're doing now.
• 37:59
  Tina Strachan: Um, sharing all this information, pulling the curtain, um, it's really appreciated.
• 38:03
  Amie Kaufman: Oh, I wish I'd had someone, and I had no one.
• 38:06
  Amie Kaufman: I didn't know anyone when I was through, and I, I really felt the lack of it.
• 38:10
  Amie Kaufman: So
• 38:10
  Tina Strachan: yeah,
• 38:11
  Amie Kaufman: I try really hard to do a a lot of it
• 38:12
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 38:13
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 38:13
  Tina Strachan: No, and it's hugely appreciated.
• 38:15
  Tina Strachan: I, I can tell you, um, and it's still, it still happens, there's still, you know, David authors just out there, um, and aspiring authors, um, just trying to find this information that, for some reason just isn't as widely available.
• 38:29
  Tina Strachan: And, and I, and I guess it's, it is different for each author and the advice that they can give.
• 38:33
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah, it's, it's, rights come to you, Amie to share that info?
• 38:38
  Amie Kaufman: Oh gosh.
• 38:39
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, well because it's such a weird sport and you have no idea what's normal or what's meant to be happening.
• 38:44
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 38:44
  Amie Kaufman: Which I think is really tough.
• 38:45
  Amie Kaufman: And I think, as say, you need all these perspectives because know what I say to you with confidence, someone else will say the opposite with And, and that's okay.
• 38:53
  Amie Kaufman: That doesn't mean that no answer.
• 38:54
  Amie Kaufman: It just means there's different answers for different people and you need to be listening to different voices and figuring out it is that you think that you kind of align with.
• 39:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 39:02
  Amie Kaufman: Um, but I also think that there is, and I hope I say this, it doesn't sound too kind of commercial and Machiavellian, but I think there is this thing with writers where we are expected to be pure artists and we don't worry about, you know, filthy money we don't worry about, you know, commercial success.
• 39:25
  Amie Kaufman: We just, you know, we just live for the art And That, that attitude discourages us from talking about ways in we might sell our books and ways in which we might make a living.
• 39:35
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 39:35
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but I don't see why you can't do both.
• 39:38
  Amie Kaufman: I don't see why you can't be making the best art you can and loving it.
• 39:42
  Amie Kaufman: And it doesn't mean you're selling out or, know, mm-hmm.
• 39:46
  Amie Kaufman: In, in, in some way writing something you would never have written otherwise.
• 39:49
  Amie Kaufman: But you're just doing it for the cash.
• 39:51
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 39:51
  Amie Kaufman: You can be writing what you love and still want to most effectively find an audience for it and want to most effectively bring publishers and booksellers librarians on side And, you know.
• 40:02
  Amie Kaufman: I think that's fine, and I just think we get a bit hamstrung by this idea that, I mean, you me even saying, oh, I hope I don't sound too commercial as I said it.
• 40:10
  Amie Kaufman: and like so you know, it lives in me as well.
• 40:12
  Amie Kaufman: This idea that if we talk about how sell books, we are somehow diminishing our art and I just don't buy that.
• 40:18
  Tina Strachan: And
• 40:19
  Amie Kaufman: so I think talking about How it gets done and how it works is really important and really helpful.
• 40:25
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 40:25
  Tina Strachan: And it's the most, you
• 40:26
  Amie Kaufman: do more of the
• 40:26
  Tina Strachan: most practical things that people have the questions about.
• 40:29
  Tina Strachan: And, um, because all, all publishing houses different and, uh, sizes and some, you know, have, some have publicists, some don't have publicists, and, and so many different things.
• 40:40
  Tina Strachan: And even just the practical stuff people wanna know.
• 40:43
  Tina Strachan: Um, the same questions.
• 40:44
  Tina Strachan: 'cause I, I was in the 2024 debut crew and I got to be in the 25 too because my, my publication date got pushed out.
• 40:51
  Tina Strachan: And, um, I hear it's very similar questions with the 2026 crew.
• 40:54
  Tina Strachan: Just things, you know, like, um, you know, how far out should I start pushing my book?
• 40:59
  Tina Strachan: Should I do, how I do that?
• 41:02
  Tina Strachan: Is it just, who's finding, you know, who's using Twitter?
• 41:05
  Tina Strachan: Who, who's finding it works on, you know, um, better?
• 41:09
  Tina Strachan: Or, you know, how do I, you know, read contract?
• 41:13
  Tina Strachan: How do I read royalty statements?
• 41:15
  Tina Strachan: All the things.
• 41:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 41:16
  Amie Kaufman: There's so many
• 41:17
  Tina Strachan: questions.
• 41:18
  Amie Kaufman: It, and it's always the same because every year, for the the last few years I've done a, a sort of a a MA with, with the de the Australian debut groups where I just jump on Zoom for couple of hours and go ask me and I'll overshare.
• 41:29
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 41:29
  Amie Kaufman: and, And they ask me and I overshare.
• 41:32
  Amie Kaufman: And it's always the same questions because it's the stuff that no one talks to about.
• 41:36
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 41:36
  Amie Kaufman: And so, yeah.
• 41:39
  Amie Kaufman: Um, you know, I mean, I look back to start of and, and I just, I had no one to ask these things.
• 41:43
  Amie Kaufman: This is how Jay Christoph and I friends, is we, the only two people knew in Melbourne who were publishing a book.
• 41:49
  Amie Kaufman: Oh.
• 41:49
  Amie Kaufman: And so, you know, we would like, have brunch and ask each other like, you do you know what this is?
• 41:54
  Amie Kaufman: you know how this works?
• 41:55
  Amie Kaufman: And, and try to figure things out together.
• 41:58
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 41:58
  Amie Kaufman: You know, I didn't register my for ELR and PLR for like three years after I published because I didn't know it existed.
• 42:06
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 42:07
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know,
• 42:08
  Tina Strachan: And I think I only know it exists through, um, well, the first I heard of it was through my debut cruise.
• 42:15
  Tina Strachan: I think telling me about it, which is, um, uh, pretty incredible.
• 42:19
  Tina Strachan: So anyone in the debut crew or recently published this, make sure you, you sign up for your ER, make sure you're
• 42:24
  Amie Kaufman: kids get your money.
• 42:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 42:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 42:27
  Tina Strachan: Um, so yeah, so thank thank you for all your Amie in that.
• 42:32
  Tina Strachan: And that's the other reason why we wanted to do this podcast as well, because have all these questions.
• 42:36
  Tina Strachan: Everyone had the same questions and we're like, well, I had these questions too.
• 42:39
  Tina Strachan: And we love hearing everybody's, um, stories and takes on that.
• 42:42
  Tina Strachan: So, um, so here we are people and trying to share that information too, and picking everybody's brains.
• 42:48
  Tina Strachan: But, um, and another reason why it's important to, um, have a writing community well, isn't it?
• 42:54
  Tina Strachan: You know?
• 42:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 42:54
  Tina Strachan: if you,
• 42:55
  Amie Kaufman: it really is.
• 42:56
  Amie Kaufman: Well, and you know, to go back to the celebrating, if you forget to celebrate, they will generally, that's why it's really helpful to have your crew around you so
• 43:04
  Tina Strachan: that Yes,
• 43:05
  Amie Kaufman: if you go, I've finished my draft, oh, tomorrow I have to start crawling through edits.
• 43:09
  Amie Kaufman: They will probably be like, wait a minute, you finished your draft.
• 43:13
  Tina Strachan: you know,
• 43:14
  Amie Kaufman: I, I have my little, my writing group like that, on Slack together.
• 43:17
  Amie Kaufman: We, we start every morning by saying good morning each other and have done, that's for years now.
• 43:22
  Amie Kaufman: It's, you know,
• 43:23
  Tina Strachan: That's really nice.
• 43:24
  Tina Strachan: That's really nice.
• 43:25
  Tina Strachan: So, um, apart from having a, um, you know, connecting other writers, connecting with your readers is super important too, isn't it?
• 43:32
  Tina Strachan: And I see you reaching out in all different places, um, to connect with your readers.
• 43:37
  Tina Strachan: Like I've seen you on little Reddit, subgroup chats and things like that, which has been,
• 43:42
  Amie Kaufman: oh, only when I'm invited.
• 43:44
  Amie Kaufman: I'm, I'm, I'm not a, I have to admit, I'm a great believer in Reddit.
• 43:47
  Amie Kaufman: It's just too, I mean, Reddit is, if you are like this obscure screw in my washing machine isn't
• 43:53
  video1151840715: Yes,
• 43:53
  Tina Strachan: yes.
• 43:53
  Amie Kaufman: Reddit is the only place to go because some person in like 2007 had the same problem and has taken the to write
• 44:00
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 44:00
  Amie Kaufman: Directions for you.
• 44:01
  Tina Strachan: It has its
• 44:02
  Amie Kaufman: purpose.
• 44:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:02
  Tina Strachan: Um,
• 44:03
  Amie Kaufman: it has, but beyond that, I must say I've actually only been on Reddit about and that's, that's when I, well I found it, asked to, to go and do like a q and a because
• 44:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:12
  Amie Kaufman: I, um, I.
• 44:14
  Tina Strachan: That's really amazing.
• 44:15
  Tina Strachan: 'cause that's directly connecting.
• 44:17
  Amie Kaufman: That was like a very, very diplomatic pause for me.
• 44:19
  Amie Kaufman: I find Reddit the, the publishing parts of Reddit to be very full of people giving very emphatic advice based on a data set of one.
• 44:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:27
  Tina Strachan: Right.
• 44:27
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, I, I, you know that there's a lot of Kruger in, in, in effect there.
• 44:32
  Amie Kaufman: There's a lot of the less they know, the more confident they are.
• 44:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:35
  Amie Kaufman: Right.
• 44:36
  Tina Strachan: So
• 44:37
  Amie Kaufman: But I, I do, yeah, do do the Q and As there, and I'm you know, I'm active on Instagram and have a a newsletter.
• 44:42
  Amie Kaufman: And I certainly, I split my, you know, I make sure more of my time's not writing than anything else.
• 44:50
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 44:50
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 44:51
  Tina Strachan: Can you chat to us about some practical advice on with newsletters, because we do get, that is probably one thing, um, that I've heard a lot of is to start a newsletter and very, for various different reasons.
• 45:03
  Tina Strachan: And one is to, yeah.
• 45:04
  Tina Strachan: um, you know, it's a good way to share your information.
• 45:07
  Tina Strachan: And, um, with people who have they've taken the time to actively sign which means they you know, they do wanna hear.
• 45:14
  Tina Strachan: um, yeah.
• 45:15
  Tina Strachan: but also, um, I've heard it's good for, uh, it is probably one of the only other things that you can't control, uh, when it comes to
• 45:24
  Amie Kaufman: what completely, I mean, I think for a start, you know, like, it's great if you wanna build your presence on social media, go for it.
• 45:30
  Amie Kaufman: But I have been around long enough to watch various types of social media rise fall.
• 45:35
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 45:35
  Amie Kaufman: And, you know, I, I haven't been on Twitter in several years.
• 45:39
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I, I left, I left some years ago when I was in the middle of one of the worst days of my life, attempting to organize a totally unexpected funeral for a very ill friend who had suddenly and unexpectedly died.
• 45:54
  Amie Kaufman: And you, you can imagine the day I was having.
• 45:57
  Amie Kaufman: And meanwhile there were people on Twitter screaming at me because I hadn't on their latest scandal.
• 46:02
  Amie Kaufman: And they felt if I didn't comment, I might be condoning it.
• 46:05
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 46:06
  Amie Kaufman: Whereas in fact, I was just a busy with something else.
• 46:10
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 46:10
  Amie Kaufman: And b entirely uninvolved in whole thing.
• 46:12
  Amie Kaufman: Anyway, so, uh, the of that day to me was clarity about what kind of platform I was on.
• 46:20
  Amie Kaufman: And so I left.
• 46:21
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and, know, in the, in the subsequent years, you know, every so often, like, you know, my husband would go on and retweet like a tour thing for me or something, but I was like, I'm not looking.
• 46:28
  Amie Kaufman: But I really remember how many followers I had on Twitter, but I think was quite a few, it was like a few, you know, 20,000 something.
• 46:34
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 46:35
  Amie Kaufman: And.
• 46:37
  Amie Kaufman: the effort that went into gathering them such as it well, that's wasted now because they're gone.
• 46:41
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 46:41
  Amie Kaufman: And, and I think most people have now left Twitter
• 46:43
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 46:43
  Amie Kaufman: because, you know, it's turned into a, A cesspool.
• 46:47
  Amie Kaufman: And, you there's nothing to say that threads will be there in a few Mm-hmm.
• 46:51
  Amie Kaufman: There's nothing to say you know, Instagram's flooding itself with, um, you know, content and it's hard to see people you follow.
• 46:57
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, the people who follow me on Instagram, about 10% of them see everything, Each that I post.
• 47:03
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 47:03
  Amie Kaufman: And it's like.
• 47:05
  Amie Kaufman: okay.
• 47:05
  Amie Kaufman: I one would assume that more than 10% of them probably wanted to it.
• 47:08
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 47:08
  Amie Kaufman: But
• 47:09
  Tina Strachan: yeah,
• 47:09
  Amie Kaufman: they don't get that choice.
• 47:10
  Tina Strachan: No.
• 47:11
  Amie Kaufman: And so for me, this is where the newsletter comes in mm-hmm.
• 47:14
  Amie Kaufman: Is social media may rise and fall, but your email is almost forever.
• 47:19
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 47:20
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 47:20
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, most of us have the same email address for many years,
• 47:23
  Tina Strachan: mm-hmm.
• 47:24
  Amie Kaufman: uh, in a row.
• 47:25
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, we check it fairly regularly and people who are your newsletter.
• 47:32
  Amie Kaufman: They didn't join your newsletter because you did one funny post that was nothing to do with your writing.
• 47:37
  Amie Kaufman: They joined your newsletter because they're a, a, a reader of your books, and they would like you to tell them when a new one is coming out.
• 47:44
  Amie Kaufman: And sometimes they'd like you to tell them some extra stuff about, you know, your, your, your, your latest book or take them behind the or, you know, talk about the ideas or, or whatever.
• 47:54
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 47:54
  Amie Kaufman: And so I think for a start, there's this different relationship because they've literally said, excuse me, would you mind telling me next time coming out?
• 48:01
  Amie Kaufman: You're not selling to them.
• 48:02
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 48:02
  Amie Kaufman: You are responding to a request that they have made.
• 48:04
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 48:05
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, Uh, I think that you, it is easier for you get to them because they're more likely to check their email.
• 48:10
  Amie Kaufman: And I think that.
• 48:13
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, there's more room to stretch your legs as well.
• 48:16
  Amie Kaufman: Like I I will be, after we finish this I will be going and sending out, uh, one of the nerdier newsletters I've ever I take a lot of time and effort over my newsletter.
• 48:26
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 48:26
  Amie Kaufman: Um, it's, it's my big way that I communicate with my readers.
• 48:30
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and was writing all about, uh, writing to the inherent pleasures of genre.
• 48:35
  Amie Kaufman: And I'm quoting things from my PhD and I'm getting into it, like a giant nerd.
• 48:39
  Amie Kaufman: Um, because I know my newsletter readers and I'm like, oh, you guys will read this.
• 48:42
  Amie Kaufman: 'cause If, if if you've stuck around, you are in fact also a giant in the best possible way.
• 48:47
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 48:48
  Amie Kaufman: Um, so so I always say to authors who are starting out, just start gathering email addresses.
• 48:54
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 48:55
  Amie Kaufman: You don't have to them straight away, but start gathering them as soon as you possibly can.
• 49:00
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 49:00
  Amie Kaufman: And it might be that early on think, well, I don't have very much.
• 49:05
  Amie Kaufman: To, to talk about.
• 49:07
  Amie Kaufman: That's fine.
• 49:07
  Amie Kaufman: Maybe just send one every quarter or one every six months and you say, hi, this is quick, you know, email to remind you that you're on this newsletter.
• 49:15
  Amie Kaufman: And I'm so excited my book is coming out in four months and I'll be with you in four months to talk all about it.
• 49:21
  Amie Kaufman: You know, just put it in their brain or whatever.
• 49:23
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 49:23
  Amie Kaufman: And I think a lot of people think, oh, couldn't possibly though because like, I'd feel like, you know, I'd feel pretend, you know, pretender sending an email to six, you know, a newsletter to six people.
• 49:32
  Amie Kaufman: To which I'd tell you they dunno, there's only six people.
• 49:35
  Amie Kaufman: There could be 60, there could be 600.
• 49:36
  Amie Kaufman: They have no way to tell.
• 49:37
  Amie Kaufman: So write it as though, as though you've got an audience.
• 49:42
  Amie Kaufman: Um, for me, newsletters are right up there with PO boxes.
• 49:45
  Amie Kaufman: It's that you should do really early.
• 49:48
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, because, and the PO box, that's just little, like PSA, like, your address is out in the world, people, it's out in the world.
• 49:54
  Amie Kaufman: You don't know how well your books are gonna do or people are gonna show up at your house.
• 49:57
  Amie Kaufman: so get a PO box even though you feel like it's overkill because mm-hmm.
• 50:01
  Amie Kaufman: The earlier the better.
• 50:02
  Tina Strachan: Okay.
• 50:02
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but, um.
• 50:05
  Amie Kaufman: Newsletters start as as you can keep them going.
• 50:08
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 50:09
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, take every opportunity to sign people up.
• 50:11
  Amie Kaufman: Like your, if you a website, your website's goal should be to tell about your books and sign them up your newsletter.
• 50:17
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 50:18
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and, you know, not even in that order
• 50:21
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 50:22
  Amie Kaufman: And because, you know, they're not gonna independently visit your website repeatedly, but if your, if your email shows up in their inbox, they'll do that.
• 50:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 50:30
  Amie Kaufman: So.
• 50:31
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, I'm, people do them in all sorts of different ways.
• 50:35
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I think, you know, if you wanna sort of a real variety of newsletters and, you know, and I think that's, you are thinking, I just dunno how to do this, then this is a great way to do it.
• 50:44
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, one I would point to would be Lily Wilkinson's newsletter.
• 50:48
  Amie Kaufman: So hers is quite brief.
• 50:49
  Amie Kaufman: and She'll talk, uh, briefly about what she's writing or what she's got out.
• 50:52
  Amie Kaufman: then she might just give you like a, here's I'm watching, here's what I'm playing, here's what I'm reading.
• 50:57
  Amie Kaufman: Sort of a little insight into her life.
• 51:00
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, I think Ellie also does a great newsletter and, you know, she writes sort of, know, crimey thrillery stuff.
• 51:07
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, that scares me.
• 51:09
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, I read but it scares me.
• 51:11
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and Ellie will often you weird crime cases that like, not related to her book, but like, if you are into her books, you will be into these weird crime cases.
• 51:20
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 51:21
  Amie Kaufman: Okay.
• 51:21
  Amie Kaufman: As well.
• 51:21
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 51:22
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, you know, my newsletter I will usually write, I'll write sort of like a little anecdote that.
• 51:30
  Amie Kaufman: Tells you what I'm thinking about and I'm bringing to my work at the moment.
• 51:33
  Amie Kaufman: So like when you, when you sign up for my newsletter, you a little responder that's like, hi, welcome.
• 51:37
  Amie Kaufman: Here are some issues you might wanna read.
• 51:39
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 51:39
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, there's the back issue about the time I was in London with my 3-year-old and her great passions in life were pink.
• 51:48
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, she was really into Barbies at the time, and she wanted to ride a double decker bus in London.
• 51:53
  Amie Kaufman: And then suddenly a double deck, a pink Barbie double bus.
• 51:56
  Amie Kaufman: No, drove straight past us, like all up in movie livery.
• 52:00
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and of going, wow, look at the bus, I like jammed her under my arm and yelled, I'll call you to husband.
• 52:06
  Amie Kaufman: And ran off down the road after it and, and got her onto this And, you know, I was talking about the importance of spontaneity in that email.
• 52:13
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 52:14
  Amie Kaufman: You know?
• 52:14
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 52:14
  Tina Strachan: It
• 52:14
  Amie Kaufman: was another one where I talk about some disastrous building works in Paris that we encountered at what what was meant to be most romantic and fulfilling moment of my life.
• 52:22
  Amie Kaufman: And how sometimes, you know.
• 52:25
  Amie Kaufman: actually whatever happens is perfect.
• 52:26
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 52:27
  Amie Kaufman: And, you know.
• 52:27
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 52:28
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 52:28
  Amie Kaufman: Like I said, you know, this month I'm talking about, um, not, not trying to be too cool for the, the of your genre, uh, and the, and, and the, the tropes and the stuff that you love in genre.
• 52:40
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 52:40
  Amie Kaufman: So, you know, those are like three very different newsletters.
• 52:43
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 52:44
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I read and Ellie's to the end every time.
• 52:47
  Amie Kaufman: they're obviously working.
• 52:48
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 52:48
  Amie Kaufman: For me.
• 52:48
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 52:49
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 52:49
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and you know, um, Tamara Moss does a great one as well.
• 52:55
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, her upcoming book is like about escape room, And in every newsletter there's like a, um, like a riddle or puzzle for you to try and figure out.
• 53:03
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 53:03
  Amie Kaufman: And then you get the answer in the next one.
• 53:04
  Amie Kaufman: So again, like, if you like that you will like the like it's a good Yeah.
• 53:08
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 53:08
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 53:09
  Amie Kaufman: million
• 53:09
  Tina Strachan: ideas.
• 53:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 53:11
  Tina Strachan: And maybe just play with it to start with.
• 53:13
  Tina Strachan: Right.
• 53:13
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 53:13
  Tina Strachan: And see what you feel comfortable with.
• 53:15
  Tina Strachan: 'cause that's also the biggest thing.
• 53:17
  Tina Strachan: If you're not feeling comfortable with it, you're probably not gonna keep it up.
• 53:20
  Amie Kaufman: You're not gonna keep going.
• 53:21
  Amie Kaufman: It's also totally fine to just do a really factual one where you say, hi, I'm just letting you know that this book is out and I'll be at this festival, or I'll be doing this thing and a reward for opening, here's photo of my cat.
• 53:33
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 53:33
  Amie Kaufman: Um, You know?
• 53:34
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 53:34
  Amie Kaufman: and that's the whole thing.
• 53:35
  Amie Kaufman: Like that's also, yeah.
• 53:36
  Amie Kaufman: totally fine.
• 53:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 53:39
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, so, you know,
• 53:40
  Tina Strachan: and Sean Sweet might suit some other, some people, your readers.
• 53:42
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, one of my favorite romance authors is Serena Bowen, and hers only ever here's what's on sale, here's new, here's what's new.
• 53:49
  Amie Kaufman: And sometimes she'll like, recommend a book that she particularly likes.
• 53:53
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and it.
• 53:54
  Amie Kaufman: So there's a million different ways to do it.
• 53:56
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 53:57
  Amie Kaufman: And I, I would just so encourage people to start gathering email addresses early.
• 54:03
  Amie Kaufman: And I, I list all of these different ones by way of saying, you know, don't, don't look at someone's newsletter and think, well I can't do that, so I can't
• 54:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, Yeah.
• 54:12
  Tina Strachan: yeah, You
• 54:12
  Amie Kaufman: can do whatever you want.
• 54:13
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 54:13
  Tina Strachan: Do it your own way.
• 54:14
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 54:15
  Tina Strachan: I like for, and it's, that's a really important point you're saying.
• 54:17
  Tina Strachan: So for want of a better word, it's like you then are the custodian, suppose, of your own contact with that person instead of Instagram.
• 54:26
  Tina Strachan: Like the amount of, uh, authors who's accounts are hacked and have to start again.
• 54:31
  Amie Kaufman: Yes,
• 54:32
  Tina Strachan: and that's, oh,
• 54:32
  Amie Kaufman: I mean,
• 54:33
  Tina Strachan: it takes years to grow.
• 54:34
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 54:34
  Tina Strachan: your Instagram.
• 54:35
  Tina Strachan: And even mine isn't huge, but I think to myself, if I had to start again, I just even know where I would start and
• 54:41
  Amie Kaufman: I if, I had to
• 54:42
  Tina Strachan: start.
• 54:42
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, no.
• 54:43
  Amie Kaufman: yeah.
• 54:43
  Amie Kaufman: Wouldn't
• 54:44
  Tina Strachan: yeah's a big consideration.
• 54:45
  Amie Kaufman: Well, and also, you know, may be having the best time in the world with your publisher and may be incredible and you're all friends and you go drinks or whatever, but you still might not be with that publisher forever.
• 54:54
  Amie Kaufman: You Mm-hmm.
• 54:54
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 54:55
  Amie Kaufman: If, when I, you know, back in when these broken stars was coming out, uh, Disney and US were encouraging us, you know, send all readers to our newsletters and we'll always make sure we them when we have a new book coming out.
• 55:07
  Amie Kaufman: And.
• 55:08
  Amie Kaufman: I know who, who could possibly have given me advice that, because I don't feel like I would've been savvy enough to have seen this coming.
• 55:15
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 55:15
  Amie Kaufman: But, you know, instead, Meghan and I directed everyone to our newsletter, and it meant that when we left Disney some, how many books later, five books more, some, number of books later.
• 55:29
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, instead of leaving behind all of these people on a Disney mailing list who were not gonna be told about our next book mm-hmm.
• 55:36
  Amie Kaufman: We took thousands upon thousands of people with us.
• 55:38
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 55:39
  Amie Kaufman: Who were now gonna be told about our next book.
• 55:40
  Amie Kaufman: So being the custodian your own contacts is Mm-hmm.
• 55:44
  Amie Kaufman: Very powerful.
• 55:45
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:46
  Tina Strachan: And, um, just touching back on the socials, you know, it can be such a time psych, it can be.
• 55:51
  Tina Strachan: Such a, a waste.
• 55:53
  Tina Strachan: It can work for lots of people.
• 55:54
  Tina Strachan: Some people, that's how they do their communities.
• 55:56
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 55:57
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 55:57
  Tina Strachan: But how, uh, how do you manage your time on that, Amie what's your philosophy on socialists?
• 56:04
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah, look, I am mindful that my advice on this is not as helpful to someone who's sort of career or aspiring, because it's all very well for me to say, oh, socials is such a time suck.
• 56:17
  Amie Kaufman: Don't it.
• 56:17
  Amie Kaufman: You know, which is, which is kind of what I wanna say.
• 56:19
  Amie Kaufman: Um, because I've already got people me and I've already got people aware of my name and my books and, and I, I am not a debut today.
• 56:28
  Amie Kaufman: So I don't sort of have that level of insight I think that some of will have.
• 56:32
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 56:32
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and that, you know, there is something to said for people becoming aware of who you are and, what you're doing and, and connections like that.
• 56:40
  Amie Kaufman: But what I would say is it just, it's don't do it, it's just make sure you're not spending too much on it and make sure it's quality time that you're spending on it.
• 56:49
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I mean, the propensity of kind of society to doom Scroll is a whole other conversation.
• 56:55
  Amie Kaufman: Oh.
• 56:55
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and so I, I use Freedom, the program.
• 56:58
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 56:59
  Amie Kaufman: and I have, uh, social media blocked 22 hours a day,
• 57:03
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 57:03
  Amie Kaufman: So I can only get on from nine to 11.
• 57:06
  Amie Kaufman: So I'll, if I have something to post, I'll post it at nine, and then like, you know, respond to some comments and, and do whatever.
• 57:11
  Amie Kaufman: And then, uh, it just turns off and it goes away again.
• 57:15
  Amie Kaufman: And that's fine by me.
• 57:17
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 57:18
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and you know, when I'm not launching a book, I have, you know, I'll bring it down to, to hour a or, or no hours a day.
• 57:24
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 57:24
  Amie Kaufman: Sometimes I'll just have a day a week that I check it.
• 57:26
  Amie Kaufman: But now I'm launching a book and I need to post, you know, more.
• 57:29
  Amie Kaufman: So
• 57:29
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 57:30
  Amie Kaufman: The way, the two part that I handle that is I sit down and spend a day making my assets.
• 57:35
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and you know, for me that's like, like put on some F1 or something and sit in front of the TV and watch the cars go round and, you know, be doing something I'm kind of enjoying Mm-hmm.
• 57:45
  Amie Kaufman: And then just like build a whole bunch of social media assets.
• 57:47
  Amie Kaufman: And.
• 57:48
  Amie Kaufman: Then, you know, and and that way I've just got them.
• 57:50
  Amie Kaufman: And so, like, I woke up this morning, all I had to do was hit publish Mm-hmm.
• 57:53
  Amie Kaufman: On a, on a saved draft.
• 57:54
  Amie Kaufman: It was very easy.
• 57:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 57:55
  Tina Strachan: Great.
• 57:56
  Amie Kaufman: Um, and, you know, yeah.
• 57:58
  Amie Kaufman: not to, not to spend too much time it.
• 58:01
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, I'd love to say spend no time on it, I appreciate that for a lot of people, they may that it's, you know, the, the that they're gonna make contact with people or, you know, or get their face or their book seen or, you know, whatever.
• 58:11
  Amie Kaufman: I, I don't think there's as much value in me saying, just don't do it.
• 58:15
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 58:15
  Amie Kaufman: Um, but I would say writing your book is a lot better value.
• 58:19
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 58:19
  Tina Strachan: I was gonna say just yeah.
• 58:20
  Tina Strachan: Is it taking away from your writing time
• 58:23
  Amie Kaufman: well all your time with your or your friends, or, you know, all the other things you should doing.
• 58:27
  Amie Kaufman: And, Mm-hmm.
• 58:28
  Amie Kaufman: And, and I highly recommend, you know, I use Freedom.
• 58:30
  Amie Kaufman: There's also a great one called, um, get Focused.
• 58:33
  Amie Kaufman: There's, Mm-hmm.
• 58:33
  Amie Kaufman: There's, there's a bunch of different programs you can use.
• 58:35
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 58:35
  Tina Strachan: But
• 58:36
  Amie Kaufman: I do think that.
• 58:38
  Amie Kaufman: Assuming that you and your personal willpower are going to outwit.
• 58:43
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 58:43
  Amie Kaufman: Over 100,000 psychologists, human behavior specialists and computer engineers is the absolute height of arrogance.
• 58:52
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 58:52
  Amie Kaufman: None of us are clever than a hundred thousand other people.
• 58:54
  Amie Kaufman: on now.
• 58:55
  Amie Kaufman: No.
• 58:55
  Amie Kaufman: And even if in some wild alternate dimension were, you'd be spending all of your willpower on
• 59:01
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 59:02
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 59:02
  Amie Kaufman: So instead I just outsource my willpower.
• 59:05
  Amie Kaufman: I like, you know, I think I used to think, oh, I should better than this.
• 59:08
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 59:08
  Amie Kaufman: And that stopped me from doing anything to block it.
• 59:10
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 59:11
  Amie Kaufman: And now I've just realized I'm not
• 59:12
  Tina Strachan: no
• 59:12
  Amie Kaufman: better than this'cause I'm a human.
• 59:14
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 59:14
  Amie Kaufman: That's, and they've designed it to addict me and I've got a human brain, so it's work on me.
• 59:17
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's exactly true.
• 59:18
  Amie Kaufman: So Instead I've just, yeah.
• 59:20
  Amie Kaufman: I cut it off.
• 59:21
  Amie Kaufman: And, mm-hmm.
• 59:22
  Amie Kaufman: and what's is I'm now not addicted to it.
• 59:25
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 59:25
  Amie Kaufman: It did break the cycle.
• 59:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 59:27
  Tina Strachan: Rewire you rewire your brain, right?
• 59:29
  Tina Strachan: Because it is actually doing that.
• 59:30
  Tina Strachan: It's, it's, Don't even, don't even get me started on that.
• 59:33
  Tina Strachan: I've got,
• 59:33
  Amie Kaufman: No, that's
• 59:34
  Tina Strachan: got a queen.
• 59:34
  Tina Strachan: No, that's a whole other wants, who like, you know, we, yeah.
• 59:37
  Tina Strachan: It's not good for them.
• 59:38
  Tina Strachan: So anyway, yes.
• 59:39
  Tina Strachan: Let's not get started on that.
• 59:41
  Tina Strachan: Oh,
• 59:41
  Amie Kaufman: yeah.
• 59:42
  Amie Kaufman: But, but I would say, yeah, you know, think about what you wanna do with it.
• 59:46
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 59:47
  Amie Kaufman: Limit the time you're spending doing it.
• 59:48
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 59:48
  Amie Kaufman: Really consider something that blocks it because
• 59:51
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 59:51
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 59:52
  Amie Kaufman: I, if you think about the idea that you Doom scroll for a couple of hours a day, Mm-hmm.
• 59:58
  Amie Kaufman: Which is a really, like, that's a very average number, right?
• 1:00:02
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:03
  Amie Kaufman: And not gonna say, well, you could writing two hours a day because one of those hours might be when you're really tired and you actually wouldn't be writing then.
• 1:00:09
  Amie Kaufman: I mean, I would say, you know, say you wrote for one of those hours each day.
• 1:00:14
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:14
  Amie Kaufman: You could write a book in a yearly with one of those per day.
• 1:00:17
  Tina Strachan: Absolutely.
• 1:00:18
  Amie Kaufman: and say you read for the other one.
• 1:00:19
  Amie Kaufman: Think of of the good books you could read as opposed to, tell what you saw when you were scrolling yesterday.
• 1:00:25
  Amie Kaufman: Tell me one thing you saw
• 1:00:26
  Tina Strachan: And how did you feel when you got off it as well?
• 1:00:28
  Tina Strachan: I know it's, it's not a great feeling, or you rest, and we've had this conversation before about, about resting and social media is Yeah.
• 1:00:34
  Tina Strachan: not resting while scrolling through it, but, um, so Amie Tell us how you manage your, your, you know, every day your, you know, you've write, we, I think we counted maybe about 26 books you've written the last 13 years.
• 1:00:48
  Tina Strachan: That's yeah.
• 1:00:49
  Tina Strachan: very busy, Amie You are, and you know, you're a full-time writer, so you do have that day-to-day, um, you know, time to write, but you do have a and that's a mental load that, you know, is, is always there as we know very well
• 1:01:01
  Amie Kaufman: listeners, Tina had to debrief me before we started recording'cause I just had an epically bad school drop off.
• 1:01:07
  Amie Kaufman: So yeah, we, we are vast contain
• 1:01:09
  Tina Strachan: That leaves you.
• 1:01:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Tina Strachan: And it just, it just sits there.
• 1:01:12
  Tina Strachan: It does, it does there.
• 1:01:13
  Tina Strachan: So,
• 1:01:14
  Amie Kaufman: yeah, of course.
• 1:01:14
  Tina Strachan: um, and even from, from other writers I know who are full-time or they aren't parents, they, they still have the same questions.
• 1:01:20
  Tina Strachan: Like, how, how should I be getting this all done?
• 1:01:22
  Tina Strachan: It feels like a lot of things.
• 1:01:24
  Tina Strachan: There's, there is the marketing that you think you have to take on yourself and the admin's quite a big thing.
• 1:01:29
  Tina Strachan: And then there's the actual writing and getting the job done.
• 1:01:32
  Tina Strachan: Um, any you advice, Amie that you have for us?
• 1:01:35
  Amie Kaufman: Ooh.
• 1:01:36
  Amie Kaufman: I think.
• 1:01:38
  Amie Kaufman: The that I have had to learn, I, a clear the decks kind of person.
• 1:01:42
  Amie Kaufman: Like what, what, I would like to do is clear the decks and then I can write in piece, you know, I'm gonna answer all the emails.
• 1:01:50
  Amie Kaufman: I'm gonna do the publicity request, I'm gonna get the laundry I'm gonna, I, I dunno why I'm using laundry as an example.
• 1:01:58
  Amie Kaufman: I'm hopeless and have not done the in many years.
• 1:02:00
  Amie Kaufman: That's my husband's job.
• 1:02:01
  Amie Kaufman: But, you know, whatever, whatever household, sorry.
• 1:02:04
  Amie Kaufman: There goes the puppy, there's bird.
• 1:02:06
  Amie Kaufman: She the bird do not have a strong relationship at the moment.
• 1:02:09
  Amie Kaufman: Um, the is getting the better of her for sure, But, you know, whatever household chore I'm gonna distract myself with, you know?
• 1:02:17
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:17
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, I wanna do all of those things and then but the reality is that if I do all of those things and then write, it's like 3:00 PM and I haven't written yet, because all of that stuff will expand.
• 1:02:28
  Amie Kaufman: And I think my, for the priority is get the writing time in first.
• 1:02:33
  Amie Kaufman: Get the writing time blocked in and make sure that happens.
• 1:02:36
  Amie Kaufman: Because if that doesn't happen, none of the rest of it matters.
• 1:02:39
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:39
  Amie Kaufman: It's all mm-hmm.
• 1:02:40
  Amie Kaufman: You know, you don't need to be putting together clever social media graphics if there's no book.
• 1:02:44
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:45
  Amie Kaufman: No.
• 1:02:45
  Amie Kaufman: You know?
• 1:02:45
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 1:02:46
  Amie Kaufman: So I think I'm, I'm often asked about time management and it's, it's always by women.
• 1:02:53
  Amie Kaufman: And I think that there are, there are people who like to do this.
• 1:02:55
  Amie Kaufman: get on their high horse and they oh, you are.
• 1:02:57
  Amie Kaufman: Do you ask a man how he it with parenting?
• 1:02:59
  Amie Kaufman: And I think that's such an unhelpful response because the people are always women and they're trying to work it out for own lives.
• 1:03:07
  Amie Kaufman: You know, they're asking someone who's, who they perceive to be like them and be the same things as them.
• 1:03:13
  Amie Kaufman: How are you doing it?
• 1:03:14
  Amie Kaufman: And think saying.
• 1:03:15
  Amie Kaufman: You're doing wrong in response is just
• 1:03:18
  Tina Strachan: mm-hmm.
• 1:03:19
  Amie Kaufman: Monumentally unhelpful and also deeply un feminist.
• 1:03:21
  Amie Kaufman: So, um, I find it really helpful to talk about this stuff and I always wanna flag.
• 1:03:27
  Amie Kaufman: That I, I write full-time
• 1:03:29
  Tina Strachan: Hmm.
• 1:03:29
  Amie Kaufman: And my husband is a full-time dad, so have a lot off my plate, um, in that respect.
• 1:03:36
  Amie Kaufman: so, you know, comparing yourself without knowing all of that is really unhelpful.
• 1:03:40
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:41
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, but for me, yeah, is about getting the writing done first.
• 1:03:45
  Amie Kaufman: It about making sure I rest effectively.
• 1:03:49
  Amie Kaufman: And, you know, I think the thing that I think about with is that would draw a distinction between being tired and being depleted and tired is when you're tired and you need to have sleep or, you know, maybe eat something depleted is when you've been out of your cup and you haven't been filling it up again and.
• 1:04:10
  Amie Kaufman: You have to stuff to fill your cup, whatever that is.
• 1:04:14
  Amie Kaufman: Um, I would say hilariously, if you sign up for my newsletter, uh, and you get the little auto response, one of the newsletters that it, it will give you in that auto response is, has a huge list it of ways I fill my cup.
• 1:04:27
  Amie Kaufman: Like a big, like I literally, like I do this, I do this, I do this.
• 1:04:30
  Amie Kaufman: Like,
• 1:04:31
  Tina Strachan: mm-hmm.
• 1:04:31
  Amie Kaufman: You know, a menu for people to pick from.
• 1:04:33
  Amie Kaufman: this is, there's your proof I guess, that this is a thing I think about.
• 1:04:37
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 1:04:37
  Amie Kaufman: A lot.
• 1:04:37
  Amie Kaufman: A lot.
• 1:04:38
  Amie Kaufman: But I think organizing your rest, your writing,
• 1:04:42
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:42
  Amie Kaufman: And also in whatever way works for you, being okay with the time that you have.
• 1:04:48
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:49
  Amie Kaufman: I think I am.
• 1:04:51
  Amie Kaufman: On my podcast, Amie Kaufman on writing, I have an episode called Writing When You Have No Time.
• 1:04:56
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, all of these different women contributed it and they all talk about, you know, writing, you know, on the train and writing, uh, you know, while they're doing the dishes in their head and all of the different places and, and ways that they fill it in.
• 1:05:10
  Amie Kaufman: And I think some very practical tips in there, but I also think there's just a lot of being seen and solidarity in there.
• 1:05:17
  Amie Kaufman: There's a lot of, I'm not the only one who is desperately to make this work because, you know, I was young, I would get up in the morning and I would take.
• 1:05:28
  Amie Kaufman: I had a netbook, remember netbooks, they were for our young listeners, they were like laptops but about half the size.
• 1:05:35
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:05:35
  Amie Kaufman: And they were only good really for like word processing and maybe a very, very slow browser.
• 1:05:42
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:05:42
  Amie Kaufman: That, you know, wouldn't wanna be googling anything in a hurry.
• 1:05:46
  Amie Kaufman: Um, were we even were we vising at that time?
• 1:05:49
  Amie Kaufman: I dunno.
• 1:05:50
  Amie Kaufman: But anyway, I would get on, I would get up I would take my train, my netbook and I would, I could get a seat on the train on the way in.
• 1:05:56
  Amie Kaufman: So, I would write on the train on the way in, Mm-hmm.
• 1:05:59
  Amie Kaufman: And then I would work my job all day.
• 1:06:00
  Amie Kaufman: And I write on the way home'cause it was room only on the train on the way home.
• 1:06:04
  Amie Kaufman: So I would get home, get outta my work clothes.
• 1:06:06
  Amie Kaufman: I would spend maybe hours with my husband.
• 1:06:08
  Amie Kaufman: 'cause I, I wanted to stay married.
• 1:06:09
  Amie Kaufman: And then, you know, about eight o'clock I would go into the and I would write midnight and I would do it every night.
• 1:06:16
  Amie Kaufman: And I would write all day on the weekend.
• 1:06:18
  Amie Kaufman: And it was.
• 1:06:19
  Amie Kaufman: Awful.
• 1:06:20
  Amie Kaufman: And I eventually got a very basic infection that escalated into something like life threatening because I was so run down.
• 1:06:28
  Amie Kaufman: Uh, and, but I, I sort of felt this sense of urgency, like I needed to try and achieve this velocity in order to break into this thing.
• 1:06:36
  Amie Kaufman: And so done it the hard way.
• 1:06:38
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:06:39
  Amie Kaufman: I spent years doing it the hard way, you know, I, I now do it in, in a considerably way.
• 1:06:44
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:44
  Amie Kaufman: Where I'm not trying to do a full-time job alongside.
• 1:06:46
  Amie Kaufman: But yeah, I think, I think I'm talking in circles now.
• 1:06:50
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:06:50
  Amie Kaufman: But I would say do the writing before you the other things.
• 1:06:54
  Amie Kaufman: 'cause writing is what matters.
• 1:06:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:06:55
  Amie Kaufman: Make sure you are filling your cup.
• 1:06:57
  Amie Kaufman: It is more important than posting on social media or, you know, doing the ironing or whatever.
• 1:07:05
  Amie Kaufman: Um, be me by clothes that do not require ironing, to iron.
• 1:07:09
  Amie Kaufman: but, Um.
• 1:07:11
  Amie Kaufman: you know, make you're filling your cup and, and be okay with speed you're doing it at.
• 1:07:16
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:17
  Amie Kaufman: You know, it's, it's okay.
• 1:07:18
  Amie Kaufman: You're still moving.
• 1:07:19
  Amie Kaufman: It'll, it'll all be fine.
• 1:07:20
  Tina Strachan: It's not a race, is it?
• 1:07:21
  Amie Kaufman: It's not a race.
• 1:07:23
  Amie Kaufman: Yeah.
• 1:07:23
  Amie Kaufman: No, there are, are very, very few that I can think of, like that one that recently came out about the mushroom trial, but like very few books I can think of that had to be published at a a particular moment.
• 1:07:37
  Amie Kaufman: You know, the nice thing about books.
• 1:07:38
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:39
  Amie Kaufman: Like, they're not, they're all classics.
• 1:07:41
  Amie Kaufman: Like they're, you know, and if any, for anyone who's thinking yes, but the type of book I'm trying to write is in in fashion right now.
• 1:07:48
  Amie Kaufman: No, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, We don't chase a trend because the time we can see the trend, It's probably late to write
• 1:07:54
  Tina Strachan: gone.
• 1:07:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:07:56
  Tina Strachan: absolutely Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:57
  Amie Kaufman: trend.
• 1:07:57
  Amie Kaufman: Write what you wanna write and be a trend.
• 1:07:59
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07:59
  Tina Strachan: I love that.
• 1:08:00
  Tina Strachan: You know, we often ask, um, my, my very last question was gonna be what's, what are your top tips with debut and aspiring but I think you just gave us so many then that probably would've been your top tips.
• 1:08:11
  Amie Kaufman: Oh, boy.
• 1:08:11
  Amie Kaufman: Can, can I give you one more, Absolutely.
• 1:08:14
  Tina Strachan: Please do.
• 1:08:14
  Tina Strachan: Which
• 1:08:15
  Amie Kaufman: I think.
• 1:08:16
  Amie Kaufman: Possibly the one that will help you stick around the longest, from resting, is to bear in mind that.
• 1:08:25
  Amie Kaufman: nothing is that big a deal.
• 1:08:27
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:27
  Amie Kaufman: And not in a bad way, in a really liberating way.
• 1:08:30
  Amie Kaufman: Like no amazing triumph is gonna change, you know, everything forever.
• 1:08:35
  Amie Kaufman: Mm-hmm.
• 1:08:35
  Amie Kaufman: No one is Stephen King forever, except for Stephen King.
• 1:08:39
  Amie Kaufman: But no, disaster is the end of everything either.
• 1:08:42
  Amie Kaufman: No.
• 1:08:43
  Amie Kaufman: You know, I'm trying to think like, you know, my has just come out and it out that they've left all of the spot gloss off the cover.
• 1:08:50
  Amie Kaufman: Or a real example, you know, or you know, this, this got printed or that happened, or my quit a week before my book came.
• 1:08:58
  Amie Kaufman: None of it matters.
• 1:08:59
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 1:09:00
  Amie Kaufman: It feels very bad in the moment, Mm-hmm.
• 1:09:02
  Amie Kaufman: But it is a marathon, not a sprint.
• 1:09:03
  Amie Kaufman: And you know, if you can surround yourself with like good friends.
• 1:09:07
  Amie Kaufman: Who will, who both deeply sympathize with you when things go wrong, but help you remember.
• 1:09:11
  Amie Kaufman: It's all good.
• 1:09:12
  Amie Kaufman: It's, It's, all averages out over time.
• 1:09:14
  Amie Kaufman: Don't worry about it then.
• 1:09:15
  Amie Kaufman: I think that's really helpful because nothing is that big a deal in the good or the the bad direction.
• 1:09:23
  Amie Kaufman: I don't mean don't celebrate it and I don't mean don't feel sorry for yourself, but you know, don't, don't feel like something can break, you know, break your career.
• 1:09:31
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 1:09:32
  Tina Strachan: yeah.
• 1:09:33
  Tina Strachan: And just to always remember that no matter what, I think that's incredible advice.
• 1:09:36
  Tina Strachan: Thank you so much, Amie Pleasure.
• 1:09:38
  Tina Strachan: This has been an incredible interview.
• 1:09:40
  Tina Strachan: I, I'm sure our listeners are gonna find so much amazing stuff and tips and inspiration from this.
• 1:09:46
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, thank you for helping us bringing in the 2026, uh, year of the Book Deal This is our first author interview off the off the ranks, and we told everyone it was gonna be a big one, so we're very excited.
• 1:09:57
  Tina Strachan: Thank Amie Yes.
• 1:09:58
  Amie Kaufman: Well, let's all write books this year.
• 1:10:00
  Amie Kaufman: Hey,
• 1:10:00
  Tina Strachan: Congratulations on Red Star Rebels as well.
• 1:10:03
  Tina Strachan: It will be out now.
• 1:10:03
  Tina Strachan: Thank you.
• 1:10:04
  Tina Strachan: when this goes to air.
• 1:10:05
  Tina Strachan: Pretty much everywhere.
• 1:10:06
  Tina Strachan: Yes,
• 1:10:07
  Amie Kaufman: it will.
• 1:10:08
  Amie Kaufman: You know what?
• 1:10:08
  Amie Kaufman: Go, go grab a copy my There you go.
• 1:10:10
  Amie Kaufman: Now I did marketing.
• 1:10:12
  Tina Strachan: Well Thank you Amie Thank you for listening to the book Deal podcast.
• 1:10:16
  Tina Strachan: We're able to bring you these weekly writerly chats because of our amazing patrons.
• 1:10:22
  Tina Strachan: Join the TPD family by becoming a member of our Patreon community@patreon.com slash the book deal podcast.
• 1:10:30
  Tina Strachan: And if you love the pod, please give us a rating or review.
• 1:10:34
  Tina Strachan: And don't forget to follow us on Instagram and Facebook.