Latest / MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast / MC Fireside Chats - September 30th, 2026

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MC Fireside Chats - September 30th, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

0:45
Brian Searl: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
0:48
Brian Searl: My name's Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground.
0:51
Brian Searl: Trying to enjoy the last few days of sunshine here.
0:53
Brian Searl: It's a little cold, like not super cold.
0:55
Brian Searl: It's about 14 degrees Celsius, 'cause we do the, the system that the rest of the world does here in Calgary, Alberta.
1:00
Brian Searl: I don't know what you guys are on in America- what that means or something, but probably about 55 maybe, something like that?
1:06
Brian Searl: I don't know.
1:07
Brian Searl: It's not not cold.
1:08
Munro Murdock: Sounds- sounds about right.
1:09
Brian Searl: But anyway, like I got my little fire going right here, which I would like, I'd like to figure out a way to have that in the shot, but it's not really working too well for me today, I was
1:17
Brian Searl: supposed to be up in my studio, but I have a little graphics card issue it's been going on all summer, but it's forced me to be outside and it's outdoor hospitality, so it's even better that way, right?
1:25
Brian Searl: So thank you guys both.
1:27
Brian Searl: Thanks for both being here.
1:28
Brian Searl: This is our one of those weird fifth week episodes, so we have none of our recurring guests that we would normally have on one, two, three, or four, so it's just the two of us or two of you
1:36
Brian Searl: and me.
1:37
Brian Searl: And we'll have a good kinda discussion here talking about your properties and some of the interesting things you have going on.
1:42
Brian Searl: And then maybe where we see the future of the industry going, 'cause I was looking through a few of your websites just briefly before the show leaving most of it to I want to discover it with the audience
1:51
Brian Searl: and then ask you questions, but let's briefly go around and just you wanna introduce yourselves and then tell us a little bit about your properties.
1:58
Stephanie Bias: Sure.
1:59
Munro Murdock: Okay.
1:59
Munro Murdock: Yeah, go ahead, Stephanie.
2:01
Stephanie Bias: Okay.
2:01
Stephanie Bias: I'm Stephanie Bias.
2:02
Stephanie Bias: I'm the general manager at Camp Aramoni in Central Illinois.
2:08
Stephanie Bias: We've got 11 safari-style tents, and, they're made of canvas, but they have hardwood floors and beds and restrooms ensuite.
2:18
Stephanie Bias: And then we also include breakfast and dinner in all of the room rates.
2:22
Stephanie Bias: So we really try to take the work out of camping.
2:28
Brian Searl: Awesome.
2:28
Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Stephanie.
2:29
Stephanie Bias: Thank you.
2:30
Brian Searl: Munro?
2:31
Munro Murdock: Hello.
2:32
Munro Murdock: Yes, Munro Murdock.
2:33
Munro Murdock: My wife Rachel and I own and operate North Haven Campground here in the North Idaho Panhandle.
2:38
Munro Murdock: We acquired the campground about four years ago, and we added some glamping units to the existing RV park and log cabins.
2:46
Munro Murdock: So we've got a good mix here of RV sites, log cabins, glamping wagons, glamping teepee tent campsites, and we've added a pavilion and hot tub.
2:55
Munro Murdock: So we're more of a pass-through area as people head out to Glacier and Banff and other things like that.
3:00
Munro Murdock: But yeah, so a smaller mom-and-pop operation and, yeah, we've enjoyed it.
3:05
Munro Murdock: It's been fun.
3:06
Brian Searl: So before we get into Munro or Stephanie, your properties Munro, I have a quick question for you.
3:10
Brian Searl: Did you always have a cool name?
3:12
Brian Searl: How did you convince your mom to give you a name like Munro?
3:15
Brian Searl: Mine's just Brian.
3:16
Munro Murdock: Oh.
3:16
Brian Searl: I know Toms and- Munro sounds like the guy, like one of the murderers in Clue, the board game.
3:21
Munro Murdock: Thank you.
3:22
Munro Murdock: Yeah, I've been blessed to have-
3:23
Brian Searl: Munro, dead in the library with a candlestick or something
3:25
Munro Murdock: i've been blessed to have a unique name my whole life, but so Munro is actually a Scottish clan name or something like that, so it's the spelling with it being M-U-N-R-O- Is a little different.
3:36
Munro Murdock: I'm actually a middle child of nine kids, and all of, me and all of my siblings have M names, so all of our names start with M, so naturally my parents had to get a little creative and I
3:46
Munro Murdock: think they liked unique names and yeah, it's an interesting alliteration.
3:50
Munro Murdock: We all get the M&M initials, and I have a little bit of Scot- Scottish ancestry.
3:55
Munro Murdock: I think my parents had traveled to Scotland and just liked that name when they came across it there, so that's how that came about.
4:02
Brian Searl: It's a good name.
4:02
Brian Searl: I like it,
4:03
Munro Murdock: yeah.
4:04
Munro Murdock: Appreciate it.
4:05
Brian Searl: All right.
4:06
Brian Searl: So where do you guys wanna start?
4:07
Brian Searl: 'Cause I wanna delve into each of your properties individually, but I feel like there's probably a larger picture to start with given it's just the two of us on the show today and say maybe we'll start with you,
4:16
Brian Searl: Stephanie.
4:17
Brian Searl: Like, how do you Rewind us, right?
4:19
Brian Searl: Rewind the tape of your life.
4:20
Brian Searl: How do you think you got to the point where you were like, "I wanna open a glamping resort"?
4:26
Stephanie Bias: I'm in the same boat as Munro.
4:28
Stephanie Bias: We're family-owned.
4:29
Stephanie Bias: My parents, Tim and Jennifer, they found the property, and they currently have a business in electrical contracting, so this did not match up at all.
4:41
Stephanie Bias: And when they saw the property, my mom just fell in love with it, and she's always loved just hosting people and being, the life of the party.
4:52
Stephanie Bias: She definitely has that personality that, that fits with hospitality.
4:57
Stephanie Bias: I was on board from day one, and at this point we have about 50 seasonal employees, and then during the winter in Illinois it gets really cold so we do have to close.
5:08
Stephanie Bias: And then during the winter we just have a small management team, mostly family.
5:13
Stephanie Bias: So I never expected to work in this industry, but I love it.
5:18
Stephanie Bias: We're from this area right next to Starved Rock State Park in Illinois, which is the most popular state park here.
5:25
Stephanie Bias: They get about 3 million visitors every year.
5:29
Stephanie Bias: So it's home and, half my family works here, and so it- it's a good time.
5:36
Brian Searl: So you talk about you talk about your mother being, having that personality for hospitality, which I think is, to, to me it's something that's critical to have in a business especially glamping.
5:46
Brian Searl: Maybe you could get away with it a little bit in the campground industry, and certainly some people have on a macro level at some of their properties.
5:52
Brian Searl: Certainly not a majority, I don't think, but some have for a while, or they've owned their parks for 40 years and just kinda get grumpy, and they're like, "It's time for me to retire.
6:00
Brian Searl: I'd like to sell."
6:01
Brian Searl: But I think that hospitality component is extremely important, and we talk on this show about a variety of things, right?
6:07
Brian Searl: But I happen to be, like, one of the AI geeks.
6:09
Brian Searl: We're developing a lot of technology for the industry, and one of the things that I always say is technology is gonna be vital for the future.
6:16
Brian Searl: Everybody's gonna use AI, all that kinda stuff, but you need to do it in a tasteful tu- a tasteful way- That doesn't put it in the face of the guest, that allows you as the operator and owner to
6:27
Brian Searl: take advantage of these tools to focus more on the guest, to provide more hospitality, to be there for more guest service, and then you use AI in ways that allow you to personalize the stay or enhance the stay
6:39
Brian Searl: that don't scream AI to somebody, right?
6:42
Brian Searl: Or say that you have to talk to a chat bot instead of a human or s- or something like that, right?
6:46
Brian Searl: The, the example I've always given is the UPS, right?
6:49
Brian Searl: I don't, I'm pretty good.
6:50
Brian Searl: I consider myself pretty talented when it's getting around the numbers of the press one, press two and I can usually get to a human.
6:56
Brian Searl: UPS defeated me.
6:58
Brian Searl: There, I don't think there are any humans who work at UPS anymore at all.
7:03
Brian Searl: I'm not even sure that the CEO is alive.
7:05
Brian Searl: But I could...
7:06
Brian Searl: so what I mean is I think there's an opportunity to provid- to use technology like that to provide and enhance the guest experience in such a way that you can also save money and also save time, and then
7:17
Brian Searl: allow you to do things that spend more time with the guest.
7:20
Brian Searl: That's a separate thing than what we're talking about with your mom, because your mom is...
7:25
Brian Searl: you need one of those people still, too, but I think it exposes the fact as we, as technology marches forward down this path that I think it's gonna go, and many people do quickly, I think it, it will
7:37
Brian Searl: expose the people who don't have that level of hospitality even more, whereas they're able to hide a little bit in the office doing things on the computer.
7:45
Brian Searl: Do you agree with that, or...?
7:46
Stephanie Bias: I definitely agree with that.
7:48
Stephanie Bias: We use AI, but it's all on the back end.
7:51
Stephanie Bias: It's just we're using it in ways to streamline processes and make things easier on our staff.
7:57
Stephanie Bias: But when you call, a human answers.
8:00
Stephanie Bias: And when you check in, it's a person checking you in.
8:03
Stephanie Bias: We don't currently have a mobile check-in.
8:06
Stephanie Bias: You come in, and you- we give you a little tour of the property.
8:09
Stephanie Bias: We show you where you're gonna go for breakfast and dinner, show you where the trails are.
8:14
Stephanie Bias: So it, AI definitely has its place, you're gonna, you're gonna meet someone as soon as you walk in the door.
8:21
Brian Searl: What do you think about that?
8:24
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
8:25
Munro Murdock: I think AI is a powerful tool that we can use and I agree that I think the s- the mindset or psychology of the owners and managers is key.
8:34
Munro Murdock: 'Cause even if you're looking at implementing AI systems or processes in the business, the mindset of the owner or manager will come through in that, right?
8:42
Munro Murdock: If you're just trying to avoid having to do the work necessary to create an amazing guest experience, that will come through in how the technology is deployed as well.
8:50
Munro Murdock: So I recently did a demo of an AI tool that can serve as like a virtual receptionist, and it's really cool the capabilities that it has.
8:59
Munro Murdock: And I can see the value there because if I'm not able to answer every single call and someone wants to book now, they might rather work with an automated AI person- AI system to book versus not getting me.
9:11
Munro Murdock: And so I can see some value in that or after hours things.
9:14
Munro Murdock: But even with that, you have to build it in a way where it serves the guest and they can always still connect with a real person.
9:20
Munro Murdock: So I do think it's wise for us in business to be staying on top of technology and embracing it because if we're not, then we're gonna kinda be left behind in a way, but we can't lose sight of
9:31
Munro Murdock: the importance of that human interaction, too, with guests to the level that they need it and expect it, right?
9:38
Brian Searl: And the way I look at it, you're right.
9:40
Brian Searl: Like th- I think you're right?
9:41
Brian Searl: Who's to say if you actually are right?
9:43
Brian Searl: None of us are qualified enough to say that, but I think you are.
9:45
Brian Searl: I think the way I view it is people tend to lean all in one way or the other, and usually when something new comes out or an idea comes across their desk or they wanna change or adapt, they
9:55
Brian Searl: lean all the way...
9:56
Brian Searl: And we're not just talking about tech or AI.
9:58
Brian Searl: They lean all the way left or all the way right or all the way up or all the way down or whatever it is, right?
10:03
Brian Searl: I just threw the up and down in there 'cause I didn't wanna make it seem like it was politics.
10:06
Brian Searl: But but like I, I believe I was looking at, Moreau, your website has a aerial shot, and we'll show the websites later.
10:11
Brian Searl: But I believe we were looking at, I was looking at your website earlier.
10:13
Brian Searl: It has a aerial shot of the campground, and it shows the little, the RV sites and the trees are all kinda surrounding it.
10:18
Brian Searl: Is that true?
10:19
Brian Searl: Is that right?
10:19
Brian Searl: Or am I thinking of your stuff?
10:20
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
10:21
Brian Searl: Okay.
10:21
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
10:21
Munro Murdock: That
10:21
Brian Searl: sounds right.
10:22
Brian Searl: S- but this is an example of what I'm talking about, too, is like I think, and we've talked about this on the show before, too, there's been a rush in this industry mostly since COVID but even sometimes before
10:33
Brian Searl: that, where there's been a lot of people who have gotten into the industry not necessarily to focus solely on profits, but profits was a large part of the reason for doing so, right?
10:44
Brian Searl: Everybody wants to make money.
10:45
Brian Searl: Not, saying that's a wrong, methodology or anything like that.
10:49
Brian Searl: But there was a lot of people who got in and built RV parks to the extent where they were just parking lots with fields where you pull in and concrete slabs and maybe a miniature golf course or a
10:59
Brian Searl: swimming pool, and this has been happening for 60, 70 years, right?
11:02
Brian Searl: But it's, I feel like it's been exacerbated, especially in Texas and Florida and Arizona over the last, five, 10 years.
11:09
Brian Searl: And I think that's what I mean.
11:10
Brian Searl: That's another example of, like the overcorrecting.
11:12
Brian Searl: I think if you l- Look at, a- and you, and who knows how to define the terms properly, right?
11:18
Brian Searl: That like, like I view camping, the word camping, as glamping, as anything that involves outdoor hospitality, as anything that connects you to nature without four walls that butt up against somebody else's four walls, right?
11:32
Brian Searl: And I don't know if that's the correct definition.
11:34
Brian Searl: We could argue that to the death, and we have on this show with dozens and dozens of different people.
11:39
Brian Searl: But so I view like I think if I look at some of the, and I, when was your park built?
11:44
Munro Murdock: It was developed around 2019, 2020, and we acquired the cabins and RV sites in 2022.
11:51
Brian Searl: Okay.
11:52
Brian Searl: I think when I, when my first guess was when I looked at your site, and obviously I was wrong was that you were an older kind of campground, not because of your architecture or the way you looked or
12:01
Brian Searl: anything, but just because- As I built my business in the early 2010s and '11s and traveled around I traveled around the country for four years straight to go into KOAs and other properties and saw hundreds of them.
12:13
Brian Searl: I found that the ones that were older, not necessarily looked older, but were built a while ago and maybe renovated, kept up, some of them weren't, some of them won't tended to be more of that the, they had
12:23
Brian Searl: the little neighborhoods with the trees, and they were a little circular road.
12:27
Brian Searl: They weren't as straight line, they weren't as thought out, they weren't as planned.
12:31
Brian Searl: And did, does that make sense first-
12:33
Munro Murdock: Yeah
12:33
Brian Searl: before I even go with the-
12:34
Munro Murdock: Yeah, it does.
12:35
Munro Murdock: I think the way I'm envisioning it is, having a little more space, having some buffer, having landscape between sites, having maybe more wooded forested area.
12:43
Munro Murdock: And I know what you mean because sometimes, if it's just an RV park right off the highway, someone's stopping over, it kinda makes sense just pack them in and f- and they're not expecting a bunch of amenities or
12:51
Munro Murdock: privacy necessarily.
12:53
Munro Murdock: But I agree with your point that if you're going for more of a destination or camping experience, you're missing the mark, I think, if you're not having some privacy and buffer and landscaping and trees and some of the
13:03
Munro Murdock: nature effect.
13:04
Munro Murdock: And it's l- it's like you're saying, the pendulum swinging too far over here to "Hey, how many sites can we fit in this two acres to just pack them in?"
13:11
Munro Murdock: And it's like that has a potential downside effect on the customer experience.
13:16
Munro Murdock: So we're walking into this.
13:17
Munro Murdock: We didn't develop it, but I do like how there is...
13:20
Munro Murdock: And we get a lot of comments from guests.
13:21
Munro Murdock: They like how there's hedges between all the sites.
13:24
Munro Murdock: We're a little more spaced out.
13:25
Munro Murdock: We're not packed in.
13:26
Munro Murdock: There's another campground here in our town, which I'm sure they're great, but they have the same amount of sites as us, but in a much more condensed acreage-
13:34
Brian Searl: Yeah
13:34
Munro Murdock: and it's just tight.
13:35
Munro Murdock: And so we have 21 sites, but it's more spread out across almost four acres, which gives people a little more breathing room.
13:43
Brian Searl: The interesting question is, though and I don't know if any of you guys, I ha- I hate numbers, so I'm just gonna preface that before I say something about numbers and hope that one of you guys maybe likes
13:52
Brian Searl: them well enough to talk about them.
13:53
Brian Searl: But I was having a good conversation.
13:55
Brian Searl: I don't, as I, I was having a good conversation with Jeff Hoffman.
13:57
Brian Searl: He's on the show regularly.
13:58
Brian Searl: He works for Camp Strategies.
14:00
Brian Searl: He's a consultant.
14:00
Brian Searl: He's been in the industry for longer than I've been alive, I think, but that just makes him much, much smarter, not older.
14:06
Brian Searl: Gray hair and all, like I'm pretty old.
14:08
Brian Searl: But I was having a conversation with him on Monday, we were talking about the, all the geeky stuff like the US Treasury yields and mortgage rates and how people are gonna refinance into all this, and I don't wanna
14:17
Brian Searl: get into a discussion about that.
14:19
Brian Searl: I'm not trying to scare you guys.
14:20
Brian Searl: But it's interesting to me as we think about overcorrecting and not correcting, do you feel like there's an opportunity for someone to even develop a park like you have, Munro, in 2026?
14:32
Brian Searl: Because we were looking at the numbers, and if you take it costs 60 to $80,000 roughly, depending on where you are, to develop a concrete padded RV site with sewer and hookups and all that stuff.
14:43
Brian Searl: And the math that the banks are willing to loan you and the interest rate on the debt that's higher now and the cap rates that are lower and the value- that are higher and the valuations are lower, whatever.
14:53
Brian Searl: I'm mixing those two up, right?
14:54
Brian Searl: I'm not gonna count either.
14:55
Brian Searl: It almost makes it seem impossible for you to go to a bank and justify a typical RV park, even if you have a couple cabins or something like that, or glamping units, when you also have to allocate space
15:07
Brian Searl: for the landscaping and the trees and everything else, because that makes the math not as appealing to the person loaning you the money, right?
15:16
Munro Murdock: Yeah, those are great points.
15:17
Munro Murdock: And I'm also not a huge fan of numbers and finances and tracking all that.
15:21
Munro Murdock: My wife fortunately handles that.
15:23
Brian Searl: What's your fingers with Stephanie?
15:23
Brian Searl: She's coming next.
15:24
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
15:25
Munro Murdock: She's- Stephanie's gonna save us from this one, but just general kinda quick, general thoughts on it are that it is a tricky dynamic with just the cost of land, the cost of of, just interest rates and those factors,
15:37
Munro Murdock: where if you're trying to develop from scratch, I think it's harder unless you can just find a really good deal on land, or maybe you already own acreage that you can then, carve out some of your acreage you
15:47
Munro Murdock: have and start developing.
15:48
Munro Murdock: That, that may be more advantageous.
15:50
Munro Murdock: I think in my mind, if I'm going out there to get into the RV business or glamping, I would probably be looking for those little hidden gems, which are probably harder and harder to find of, the old mom
16:00
Munro Murdock: and pop ones that are already there, and they have opportunity to be revamping or updating or refreshing, and maybe they're ready to retire.
16:06
Munro Murdock: But I know there's probably investors out there scouring for those night and day.
16:10
Munro Murdock: I, I like the
16:11
Brian Searl: Well, but it also doesn't solve the problem either, 'cause those investors have to then have the capital to purchase the property, right?
16:17
Munro Murdock: You're right.
16:17
Munro Murdock: It's still a tricky dynamic where unless they can just find a really good deal it's tough.
16:21
Munro Murdock: I think we've seen this, like, rapid acceleration of lots of money fund, flowing into this industry, specifically RV parks and campgrounds, which has really pushed those, those values up and just the cost of things, coupled with the real
16:35
Munro Murdock: estate markets just going ballistic in a lot of these desirable areas, right?
16:39
Munro Murdock: Just going through the roof, like in our area, doubling and tripling over 10 years.
16:43
Munro Murdock: So I think it is a challenge, but it's probably, in my opinion, a good challenge because we just can't have this never-ending growth and just parks going up everywhere.
16:51
Munro Murdock: I don't know if there's really...
16:53
Munro Murdock: Is there enough growth in the industry to support that?
16:55
Munro Murdock: I don't know.
16:56
Munro Murdock: I think it's a strong industry, but I don't know, understand that well enough to say if we get to a point where we're in oversaturation of too many campgrounds or something.
17:05
Brian Searl: I think the demand is there, and we, and Scott Bahr and I have talked about this.
17:08
Brian Searl: I don't know if Scott.
17:09
Brian Searl: He's the one who does the North American Camping Report for KOA, has done it since their inception, and we've worked on some reports together.
17:15
Brian Searl: He, we host a podcast.
17:16
Brian Searl: A really brilliant guy.
17:18
Brian Searl: And we've talked about this for a while, that the, I don't think there's a demand problem in the industry, and I don't really think there ever will be.
17:26
Brian Searl: Because people are gonna wanna go outside.
17:27
Brian Searl: They're gonna wanna go, go camping, be in nature, go hiking, enjoy the, white water rapids, the waterfalls, the biking, the cycling, whatever else.
17:35
Brian Searl: I could keep naming things, right?
17:38
Brian Searl: I don't think we have a demand problem.
17:39
Brian Searl: I think we have a couple things in the industry, and this is just my thoughts.
17:44
Brian Searl: Doesn't mean I'm right?
17:45
Brian Searl: But I think we have two things.
17:47
Brian Searl: One is an affordability problem, and that's not necessarily within the realm of control of, Munro or Stephanie, who own the properties, because your costs are going up, too.
17:58
Brian Searl: Although there were some people on a micro level who, a minority of owners, who took advantage of the COVID thing, inject their prices up probably a little bit too high.
18:07
Brian Searl: So I don't think we have a demand problem.
18:08
Brian Searl: I think we have an affordability problem, but then I also think we have a match problem with what the customer wants.
18:13
Brian Searl: And I think many of the traditional RV parks or traditional campgrounds have gone after the same demographic for the last 60 years, which is mostly the boomers, and those, that demographic who are still traveling but are starting to
18:28
Brian Searl: wind things up, right?
18:29
Brian Searl: As every year goes by.
18:31
Brian Searl: Those boomers have wanted something very specific, and those needs haven't really changed over the last 40, 50 years.
18:37
Brian Searl: They've wanted the, just the standard campground they can go to on a weekend, take their grandkids, miniature golf, swimming pool, and the demands haven't changed, and so the campgrounds haven't changed with them.
18:47
Brian Searl: But now I talk to so many people who are trying to figure out desperately, "How do I get the younger millennials in here or the older millennials?"
18:54
Brian Searl: Whichever way that demographic goes, right?
18:55
Brian Searl: The, the ones that grew up with phones in their hands versus the whatever.
18:59
Brian Searl: I'm right on the edge of the millennials.
19:00
Brian Searl: And then the Gen Z's and the gens al- Gen Alphas that come after them, and they don't really have a concept of understanding what these kind of guests truly want, and I think they want more of what you
19:11
Brian Searl: offer, Munro, and you offer, Stephanie, than they do a traditional RV park.
19:17
Brian Searl: But that becomes an issue of how do we figure that out?
19:20
Brian Searl: How do we deliver it to them when the math doesn't necessarily work the same?"
19:24
Brian Searl: I think the math works better for Stephanie than it may be for a traditional And I'm not, don't take it the wrong way, Munro, when I say, when I call you traditional, right?
19:32
Brian Searl: I think you're traditional just from a campground perspective.
19:35
Brian Searl: But that doesn't mean less than.
19:37
Brian Searl: Sure.
19:37
Brian Searl: It's just different.
19:39
Brian Searl: Yeah.
19:39
Brian Searl: But I think that's, those are the two things.
19:40
Brian Searl: I don't think we have a demand problem.
19:42
Brian Searl: I think we have an affordability problem that's only going to exacerbate itself in the coming years.
19:47
Brian Searl: And then I think we have a mismatch with the product problem.
19:50
Brian Searl: What do you think?
19:53
Stephanie Bias: I can speak on that.
19:55
Stephanie Bias: So we do get a lot of younger people here for bachelorette parties and weddings.
20:03
Stephanie Bias: I think when it comes down to, like what value do you bring to these people I think just like what maybe makes us a little bit different is we have an event venue on site, and with that venue,
20:19
Stephanie Bias: we can offer different, services events that they can go to.
20:24
Stephanie Bias: We do live music every Wednesday.
20:26
Stephanie Bias: So maybe just beyond the room rates of what we're offering, there's some extra bonuses that they're looking for to feel like they're really getting a good deal on that.
20:40
Brian Searl: Yeah, I don't think, I guess I should quantify that statement and say I, I don't think you fall into the bucket that I just described or you do, Munro, right?
20:49
Brian Searl: I, I think the people who have been building like crazy in the last five years on a macro level, not all, but a majority probably, 50, 60%, I'll make up a number randomly out of thin air with any
20:59
Brian Searl: data to support it.
21:00
Brian Searl: I think those people are the ones who haven't maybe studied the product market fit as much as they perhaps should have.
21:06
Brian Searl: I think if you are and then there are and it doesn't mean that glamping itself is exempt.
21:10
Brian Searl: I think there are a lot of glamping, there are campgrounds who threw up glamping cabin rentals side by side without necessarily thinking through their demographic.
21:19
Brian Searl: Some parks that works well for because their demographic wants that.
21:24
Brian Searl: It can be more affordable.
21:25
Brian Searl: They wanna share neighborhoods.
21:26
Brian Searl: They're used to growing up in the camping space, that's normal for them 'cause they've gone to RV parks and campgrounds forever.
21:33
Brian Searl: Then there are the glamping, like I went to Ireland last year in September.
21:37
Brian Searl: I'm old, so I don't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday.
21:39
Brian Searl: But last year in September I think I went to Ireland and we were looking at the different glamping resorts trying to figure out where we could stay at unique accommodations because once you get out of the main cities
21:49
Brian Searl: in Ireland and you're driving along the coast of, the edge, there's a lot less places to stay at for, as far as major chain hotels.
21:57
Brian Searl: And so we s- we noticed a difference between the glamping resorts, even in Ireland, and it's the same way in the US, the same way in Canada, the same way in probably many other places.
22:06
Brian Searl: There's the operator who stacks them side by side, and in Ireland it was a little bit better 'cause they stacked them side by side and they were all facing the ocean, right?
22:13
Brian Searl: So a little bit of a cheat code there.
22:15
Brian Searl: But but there was those people, and then there was the people who, put them in caves or landscaped them or made something.
22:22
Brian Searl: You could just go to the website and see that they were truly unique.
22:24
Brian Searl: They had wood-fired hot tubs outside.
22:26
Brian Searl: They curated the yards.
22:28
Brian Searl: They did, right?
22:29
Brian Searl: And I think that's what you are more closer to, Stephanie.
22:32
Brian Searl: Is that fair?
22:34
Stephanie Bias: Yeah, I would agree with that.
22:35
Brian Searl: Okay.
22:36
Brian Searl: And so I wanna, again, I wanna talk about your property in a second, but I j- this is just a thought, like- So I think that what we need to do is figure out a way to identify and
22:46
Brian Searl: this seems like a no-brainer, but identify the type of customers that are coming to our area, what their needs, what their wants are, and then figure out now that I know that audience, now I think I know what
22:56
Brian Searl: I need to build, how do I build something that's different from my neighbors?
23:00
Brian Searl: Because I think if you can accomplish both of those things and show people enough of a value to come to your property, whether it's a campground or a traditional RV park or, glamping of any kind, then I think
23:11
Brian Searl: you'll be fine generally, unless we have something really bad happen to the economy, which I'm not anticipating or hoping for, then I think that there's, that you, there's so much demand for people who are willing to spend their
23:22
Brian Searl: money in a unique, different way for an experience that, like Stephanie, did you have a down year?
23:29
Brian Searl: My guess is you had an up year.
23:31
Stephanie Bias: It's been a good year.
23:33
Brian Searl: Okay.
23:33
Brian Searl: Yeah, but if you talk on a macro level to the campground industry, again, macro, 20,000 foot view, I think the number averages for transient RV parks is somewhere between down eight and down 12 or more percent.
23:49
Brian Searl: Just RV and just transient, not long-term and not glamping at this park.
23:54
Brian Searl: So like Stephanie, how do you think that you set yourself apart?
23:58
Brian Searl: You talked a little bit about it, right?
24:00
Brian Searl: But how do you think you truly set yourself apart and appeal to a demographic that, that makes you different from the others?
24:07
Stephanie Bias: From the get-go, we wanted to include meals.
24:10
Stephanie Bias: Just from our own travels, we've noticed that you typically need to find somewhere else to eat if you're staying at some kind of campground or similar situation.
24:21
Stephanie Bias: Or you can cook your own food if there's a kitchen or a fire.
24:26
Stephanie Bias: So we hired a chef right from the get-go, developed the menu, built the kitchens, and that has been our most unique part of the stay, I think, and most memorable.
24:39
Stephanie Bias: A lot of our reviews are about the food, which is something we strive for.
24:44
Stephanie Bias: So I think offering that and keeping them on site versus off site, then there's more value for us, more opportunity for sales in the gift shop or upgraded experiences.
24:57
Stephanie Bias: We offer massages in the tents, a massage therapist will come to your room.
25:02
Stephanie Bias: So yeah, just really trying to focus on keeping them on property and giving them different opportunities to either get outside explore the trails, or we will give them recommendations for the nearby towns and that too.
25:17
Brian Searl: So the high touch.
25:20
Brian Searl: is one of, one of the main selling points?
25:22
Brian Searl: Is that a fair- is that a good...
25:24
Brian Searl: I don't know.
25:24
Brian Searl: I'm not a glamping operator.
25:25
Brian Searl: You tell me if that's a good word to use, but how, like that's what it sounds like.
25:28
Brian Searl: You just like you're there for the guests whenever you need them, whenever they need you.
25:31
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
25:32
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
25:32
Stephanie Bias: We are definitely, I, we don't really use the word, but we are like the concierge service.
25:38
Brian Searl: Yeah.
25:38
Stephanie Bias: If they need anything, we'll take them where they need to go.
25:42
Brian Searl: What do you think, Munro?
25:43
Munro Murdock: Yeah I think that's a really neat concept that they have and a unique selling proposition of really creating this almost like an all-inclusive type of experience, which is I would say somewhat unique in America, like in our industry
25:56
Munro Murdock: here.
25:56
Munro Murdock: And but then you see how it affords itself to higher nightly rates than if they're just s- simply renting glamping tents, right?
26:04
Munro Murdock: And so for us we're on a- another side of the spectrum where we have a variety of options, but we're not doing this high touch, full service.
26:11
Munro Murdock: We're not doing meals, but we do make the guest experience positive in that we make it really easy for them to come and go.
26:17
Munro Murdock: They can check in contactless if they want.
26:19
Munro Murdock: We do have a camp store.
26:20
Munro Murdock: We do have some cool onsite amenities with a hot tub and pavilion, but we're more geared towards the independent travelers who are doing their thing and just wanna come and go.
26:29
Munro Murdock: And if they wanna check in the office, great.
26:31
Munro Murdock: If they wanna just check in directly at their site, we give them all the info to do that.
26:34
Munro Murdock: So we're taking a little bit different of an approach, but the thing I like about that as an owner/operator is it frees up more of my time to focus on other aspects of the business where I don't have
26:45
Munro Murdock: to check in 100% of my guests or do a lot of hand-holding.
26:48
Munro Murdock: And if they want that, we're here for them to do that.
26:50
Munro Murdock: But with our philosophy, we've been blessed to be able to start from scratch, meaning like a new name, a new Google profile and everything four years ago and become the highest rated campground in the state of Idaho with
27:03
Munro Murdock: regards to Google Reviews, over 400 reviews, 4.9 star rating.
27:07
Munro Murdock: So it's interesting, and I feel like with your discussion what you're talking about, campgrounds that are more traditional, like you're saying, could do well if they have extra space to add in some glamping or to add in tent
27:18
Munro Murdock: camping or add some variety.
27:20
Munro Murdock: I think that could serve them very well because then they're able to add in a whole other demographic that they might be missing entirely.
27:26
Munro Murdock: But I think they should only do that if they're prepared to truly be in the hospitality business 'cause running, RV sites is probably a bit different than running these glamping sites effectively, running cabins.
27:37
Munro Murdock: And so if you're willing to get into hospitality, I think it helps balance things out with some of those down numbers you're talking about.
27:45
Munro Murdock: We haven't been as impacted like that because we've had strong cabin and glamping booking season this summer
27:53
Brian Searl: Yeah, I think that's-- When you step back and look at the industry as a whole, I think everybody is gonna have to be able in the next few years, if the-- unless the economy does some crazy reversal, but
28:04
Brian Searl: even then with the millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alpha coming up with their demographics anyway, I think everybody's gonna have to be able to pick up the phone and say instantly what makes me different and have a
28:12
Brian Searl: real answer for it, not my customer service is better.
28:15
Brian Searl: Like your answer, Munro, was, "I'm different than the park down the street from me because they're more of that they have it all crammed into one, smaller space.
28:22
Brian Searl: They have the same amount of sites."
28:24
Brian Searl: That's a clear difference maker, right?
28:26
Brian Searl: And so I think if every park is, and every park can't answer that on day one, but I think if every park has an answer to that question, then they're gonna be pretty well set up for I think
28:37
Brian Searl: the demand is still gonna be there
28:40
Munro Murdock: I agree.
28:40
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
28:40
Munro Murdock: You gotta know what you have and be confident in selling it and not, we never disparage any of the other campgrounds.
28:46
Munro Murdock: But we have people come to us all the time from these other places saying, "Hey, stayed over there but we wanted something different."
28:50
Munro Murdock: And so we welcome that.
28:51
Munro Murdock: And the focus should always be on our own businesses, properties, and guests, and how do we just make that an awesome experience and not really concern ourselves too much about the competition.
28:59
Munro Murdock: We need to be aware of what they're doing but we need to be fully focused on our businesses and how to just make them as awesome as they can be.
29:06
Munro Murdock: And if we're focused in that direction the guests will feel it, they'll experience it, they'll have an awesome experience and we don't have to concern ourselves too much with poor ratings because we're working hard for what they want.
29:18
Brian Searl: 100% agree.
29:19
Brian Searl: Stephanie, you wanna talk us through your property?
29:21
Brian Searl: Do you have, did you figure out how to share screen?
29:22
Brian Searl: I put it on so for the audience who isn't here, we were talking backstage.
29:27
Brian Searl: Normally, I would share the screen of different websites that we wanna look through but I'm out here on my phone right now and I don't have somebody operating my studio like I normally do.
29:34
Brian Searl: So I asked these wonderful guests to share their own properties and talk us through it, which may be honestly an interesting way to do it in the future.
29:43
Brian Searl: But I'll turn it over to you, Stephanie.
29:45
Brian Searl: Just talk us through I don't know how often you look at your own website, right?
29:48
Brian Searl: What do you think that goes through your head when you look at your own website and how you view yourselves?
29:54
Stephanie Bias: Can you see my screen?
29:55
Brian Searl: I can, yep.
29:56
Stephanie Bias: Okay, good.
29:57
Stephanie Bias: So we have 11 units.
30:00
Stephanie Bias: We were actually limited by our county.
30:02
Stephanie Bias: They said we can't build any more than that.
30:05
Stephanie Bias: We were the first business in the county to have these kinds of units.
30:10
Stephanie Bias: We're still the only one to have these kinds of units.
30:12
Stephanie Bias: We're on 100 acres and we have 11.
30:15
Stephanie Bias: So maybe one day we'll apply for more and see maybe if we can add different kinds of units, maybe something that's year-round like an A-frame cabin or maybe a tiny house.
30:26
Stephanie Bias: Because right now our season is May through mid-November in Illinois.
30:30
Stephanie Bias: But yeah, I don't really go on my website too often, so this is fun.
30:36
Stephanie Bias: We have, all the different rooms listed.
30:40
Stephanie Bias: So with the different tents, they're all named after native Illinois wildflowers and have slightly different layouts.
30:48
Stephanie Bias: So some of them we call family tent-
30:51
Brian Searl: Can I ask-
30:51
Stephanie Bias: Yeah
30:52
Brian Searl: can I ask why you went with the wildflower name?
30:54
Brian Searl: Just curious.
30:55
Stephanie Bias: It really fits with the property.
30:56
Stephanie Bias: We restored the prairie that was here.
30:59
Stephanie Bias: We got rid of some invasive species that were kinda taking over, and we work on Illinois prairie restoration every year, multiple times a year.
31:07
Stephanie Bias: So it really just fit in.
31:09
Brian Searl: Cool.
31:10
Brian Searl: Sorry to interrupt you.
31:11
Brian Searl: I was just curious.
31:12
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
31:13
Stephanie Bias: No, that's a good question.
31:14
Stephanie Bias: So some of them are more geared towards families.
31:18
Stephanie Bias: They're gonna have bunk beds in them.
31:20
Stephanie Bias: Let's see if I have one.
31:22
Stephanie Bias: Yeah, so example Partridge P, it has a king bed, a queen sofa bed, and a bunk bed.
31:29
Stephanie Bias: So those units can sleep up to six.
31:32
Stephanie Bias: And then we have our standard units like Foxglove here, which has a king bed and a queen sofa bed, and then we have two honeymoon suites like Flora and Fauna that just have a king bed, and they're closest
31:46
Stephanie Bias: to the river.
31:48
Stephanie Bias: The way the booking process works is you can decide which room you want to stay in.
31:52
Stephanie Bias: You let us know how many people are staying with you, and then from there we start building out the rest of the stay.
31:59
Stephanie Bias: So you can pick what time you come to breakfast, what time you come to dinner, and then you can go through the different add-ons.
32:06
Stephanie Bias: So I'm actually going to pop open a different tab to show the add-ons that we offer.
32:17
Brian Searl: While you do that, while you do that, and I want to walk through this, but like I really think that food and beverage, despite the I don't know if it's stereotypical, the kind of lower margins on that, at
32:26
Brian Searl: least that's what you hear from restaurant owners.
32:28
Brian Searl: I think this is one of the things that truly sets people apart, and I'm not saying every property should do food and beverage.
32:34
Brian Searl: I think there's really good reasons not to do food and beverage, depending on your location and where you're at and what your type of demographic is.
32:39
Brian Searl: But food and beverage to me and I'll go back to Ireland again, right?
32:43
Brian Searl: I ca- I can't remember the name of the property we stayed at, just I'm sorry, property in Northern Ireland.
32:49
Brian Searl: It started with an F.
32:50
Brian Searl: But we stayed there and one of the most it was cabins on a little recessed pond area.
32:55
Brian Searl: There was a huge acreage.
32:56
Brian Searl: There was kayaking and everything else to do which we didn't get to take part of mostly 'cause we were driving in really late.
33:02
Brian Searl: But one of the most interesting things was to just the walk to the chef quality restaurant that was, like, five-star food, that was really, like it was out in the middle of nowhere.
33:11
Brian Searl: There was nowhere else to eat.
33:12
Brian Searl: But I think that really truly set the experience apart for us.
33:15
Brian Searl: It just made us feel different than normal glamping, if that makes sense.
33:20
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
33:20
Stephanie Bias: It does make sense.
33:21
Stephanie Bias: A lot of our guests give us similar feedback.
33:25
Stephanie Bias: It's not that we're in a remote location.
33:27
Stephanie Bias: There are plenty of restaurants nearby.
33:29
Stephanie Bias: But it just takes the decision-making out of it.
33:32
Stephanie Bias: You don't have to plan, a full itinerary for the stay.
33:35
Stephanie Bias: "Okay, I'm gonna have breakfast here, I'm gonna have dinner here," and it takes the decision fatigue out of it.
33:43
Brian Searl: Go ahead, show us what you got.
33:44
Stephanie Bias: Okay.
33:46
Stephanie Bias: We offer yoga classes and fishing lessons.
33:49
Stephanie Bias: Those have been really popular by appointment.
33:52
Stephanie Bias: And then the rest of the packages are food and beverage related.
33:56
Stephanie Bias: So while we don't offer lunch, we do have a Chicago dog package, which with us being an hour and a half from Chicago, has been very popular.
34:06
Stephanie Bias: So that's an option.
34:08
Stephanie Bias: And then we also do whiskey and chocolate flights, as well as wine and cheese flights.
34:14
Stephanie Bias: Those are nice when guests first check in if they're looking for maybe some way to r- unwind before, before dinner that night.
34:23
Stephanie Bias: And then lastly, we have our luxury picnics, which are very involved.
34:29
Stephanie Bias: We go out into the woods, we set up a location for them, and then they choose which menu they want.
34:36
Stephanie Bias: There are some different menus just based on, like, how much food you actually wanna order.
34:42
Stephanie Bias: And then on the last page you can choose which wine you wanna have with the picnic.
34:47
Stephanie Bias: So we definitely are very involved, and we really get to know the guests while they're on site.
34:55
Stephanie Bias: They're in our main ar- like, spaces very frequently.
35:00
Stephanie Bias: And I think that lends itself to more personalized reviews when they do leave reviews for us, because it seems like a lot of our guests mention staff by name, which as the general manager, makes me very happy.
35:15
Brian Searl: So I have a question for you and you can say no if you're not willing to share, right?
35:19
Brian Searl: Or just share what you're willing to share.
35:21
Brian Searl: But if I put myself in the shoes of either a typical campground operator or a glamping operator who's just getting started or dreaming about what they wanna offer, or maybe has the units but hasn't thought through the experience
35:33
Brian Searl: like you have yet- I imagine myself looking at something like the luxury picnic experience and saying, "Man, that's gonna take a lot of time, and a lot of staff, and a lot of hassle.
35:43
Brian Searl: How could you ever make money on something like that?"
35:45
Brian Searl: Is, are those things, do you find profitable enough to make them worthwhile?
35:50
Brian Searl: Or do they just add to the experience overall, and thus allow you to charge maybe a higher room rate?
35:57
Stephanie Bias: In the very beginning we had those same questions.
36:00
Stephanie Bias: And there have been experiences that we've offered and then have taken off the menu because it wasn't profitable for us.
36:09
Stephanie Bias: We found that the guests are willing to pay a higher, sticker price for the picnics because they are so involved.
36:17
Stephanie Bias: And on that same end, it makes it profitable for us.
36:21
Stephanie Bias: When it comes to staff, we definitely have to have someone in the kitchen who prepares the food, and then one person, I'll say, out in the field who goes and sets everything up.
36:32
Stephanie Bias: So all in all, it can be a two or three-hour ordeal.
36:36
Stephanie Bias: But we've priced it accordingly.
36:40
Brian Searl: Okay.
36:41
Brian Searl: Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it.
36:42
Brian Searl: It's just-
36:42
Stephanie Bias: Yeah
36:43
Brian Searl: 'cause I think those things are some of the key stuff that it seems like, 'cause the other flip side of that is if an owner or as me who's not brave enough to own a glamping resort or campground
36:52
Brian Searl: I just do AI and tech behind a computer.
36:55
Brian Searl: It seems to me like w- if I were consulting for somebody I'd be like, "Yeah, offer a luxury picnic experience."
37:00
Brian Searl: That's an amazing thing.
37:01
Brian Searl: But then you don't, but since sometimes people like me don't take it all the way through the like does it make the money, does it not and have all those kind of authentic kind of owner experiences of like
37:11
Brian Searl: I've tried this and it hasn't worked or it did work.
37:14
Brian Searl: But I think those little touches are like- I think it's hard to deliver the right way, but I think it's easy to conceptualize.
37:22
Brian Searl: Does that make sense?
37:23
Brian Searl: Is that fair?
37:23
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
37:24
Stephanie Bias: We've definitely gone through different menu iterations.
37:27
Stephanie Bias: Like for example, some of our first menus, as soon as you took the food outside, it just like immediately went down in quality because of the weather.
37:35
Stephanie Bias: It might be too hot and, the food's melting or it's not holding up.
37:40
Stephanie Bias: So we've had to think through like more hearty food options.
37:44
Stephanie Bias: The wine we include with every picnic.
37:48
Stephanie Bias: Originally we were offering cocktails, but same thing.
37:51
Stephanie Bias: You'd make the cocktail and by the time you'd get it to the guest it'd be too watered down.
37:55
Stephanie Bias: So it just, it takes some trial and error.
37:58
Stephanie Bias: But at this point we have repeat guests who choose to do the picnic every year that they stay with us, and they do appreciate that the menu is different every year
38:09
Brian Searl: You gotta figure out the delivery mechanism.
38:10
Brian Searl: There needs to be like a underground trolley that shoots everything through a-
38:13
Stephanie Bias: That would be amazing.
38:15
Brian Searl: like a wood log that just opens up next to them, and they're like, "Oh, shoot, I thought that was a regular log," and my drink, my cocktails come out.
38:22
Brian Searl: Yeah.
38:22
Stephanie Bias: You should've seen me in the ATV with the cocktail shaker in one hand and my hand on the wheel trying to get into the woods.
38:30
Munro Murdock: Wow.
38:33
Brian Searl: What do you think, Munro of Stephanie's property before you share yours?
38:36
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
38:36
Munro Murdock: I think it's very impressive.
38:37
Munro Murdock: It's evident that it's very, high-end, high-touch luxury experience, and it just, it's it's a...
38:45
Munro Murdock: I was thinking, man, how do you, why do you need so many staff, for so few accommodation units?
38:50
Munro Murdock: But there really is-
38:51
Stephanie Bias: Exactly
38:51
Munro Murdock: a lot that you guys have going on, and so it's really interesting.
38:54
Munro Murdock: I like that niche and just the setting you have.
38:57
Munro Murdock: It's very unique.
38:58
Munro Murdock: And so it's not surprising that you're doing well.
39:00
Munro Murdock: There's clearly a tremendous amount of time and effort and energy that goes into running something of that level.
39:06
Munro Murdock: So yeah, I was very impressed with all of that.
39:09
Stephanie Bias: Thank you.
39:09
Brian Searl: I think what it comes down to is the time and effort, and that doesn't mean that you gotta spend millions of dollars to add different amenities.
39:16
Brian Searl: Certainly that's one path that you can take.
39:18
Brian Searl: The Yogi Bear Jellystone Parks do it really well.
39:20
Brian Searl: I think it's just that time and effort, and that effort may not always be the same, might not be proportional.
39:25
Brian Searl: Some people might have to spend more effort and other people have to spend less effort.
39:29
Brian Searl: But I think it's just understanding your guests, what they want, and then you have this unbelievable partner, we're not gonna talk about AI again, but this unbelievable partner where you can just go there and say "Hey, I've got
39:38
Brian Searl: this property and I've got these tents and I'm near the city and this is my address, and can you give me like 10 really unique, creative ideas from first principles that will blow people away that they've never experienced
39:47
Brian Searl: before that will make them come to my property?"
39:50
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
39:50
Brian Searl: Boom.
39:50
Brian Searl: And you got 10, and probably 8 of them might be like I don't know," right?
39:54
Brian Searl: But two, and then you do it again.
39:55
Brian Searl: You get two more.
39:57
Brian Searl: I think it's just interesting, the, that guest experience to me coming from the...
40:01
Brian Searl: I'm more from the traditional, that's where my exposure started was the traditional campgrounds, the KOAs, the RV parks.
40:08
Brian Searl: And so as I see this industry continue to evolve, it excites me to see people, like, planning and trying new things, and I think there's just so much room to go.
40:17
Brian Searl: And for the people who are early adopters, which will probably be the next 10 years the way our industry tends to move in speed- Those people are gonna do really well for themselves if they're willing to put in
40:26
Brian Searl: the time and effort.
40:28
Brian Searl: All right.
40:28
Brian Searl: Let's see what you got, Munro.
40:30
Munro Murdock: All right.
40:30
Munro Murdock: So I'll jump in here with a, Let's see if I can do a screen share.
40:36
Munro Murdock: I'm gonna start with a couple images and then I'll jump into our website.
40:39
Munro Murdock: So is it...
40:41
Munro Murdock: Okay, there we go.
40:42
Munro Murdock: That's working.
40:43
Munro Murdock: All right.
40:44
Munro Murdock: So this is an aerial view.
40:45
Munro Murdock: Are you seeing the images toggle here as I move it?
40:49
Brian Searl: Maybe.
40:49
Brian Searl: I don't...
40:49
Brian Searl: It's too s- small for me, but I see the...
40:51
Brian Searl: Yeah, I can see the different images.
40:52
Brian Searl: Yes.
40:52
Munro Murdock: Okay.
40:53
Brian Searl: As you change them.
40:53
Munro Murdock: So this is just a quick aerial view.
40:55
Munro Murdock: We have five luxury log cabins, two two-bedrooms and three one-bedrooms.
40:59
Munro Murdock: We have 21 RV sites, 10 are full hookup and 11 are water/electricity.
41:05
Munro Murdock: We've got two glamping wagons, a glamping tipi, pavilion, playground, hot tub, and we have 10 tent- or I'm sorry, five tent campsites.
41:14
Munro Murdock: And so we have...
41:15
Munro Murdock: That's kind of the variety that we have.
41:17
Munro Murdock: I'm gonna switch over to our website here, if it'll let me swap it.
41:22
Munro Murdock: So I'm gonna go over to that.
41:24
Munro Murdock: So this is our website, northavencampground.com.
41:28
Munro Murdock: On the homepage, just a summary overview.
41:30
Munro Murdock: We have various buttons where people can go in and check availability and book their stay.
41:34
Munro Murdock: So we're showcasing the log cabins here, and then our RV sites, glamping wagons.
41:41
Munro Murdock: We just have the one glamping tipi currently.
41:44
Munro Murdock: And then just some information about exploring North Idaho and our town here of Bonners Ferry.
41:49
Munro Murdock: So that's that.
41:51
Munro Murdock: We have a little bit about us.
41:52
Munro Murdock: My wife, Rachel, and I bought the campground four years ago.
41:56
Munro Murdock: And a kind of fun story there we had with it is we visited Bonners Ferry for the first time in the fall of 2020.
42:01
Munro Murdock: We actually stayed in cabin number 2, first time in town, not knowing that we'd be buying the campground in the future.
42:08
Munro Murdock: Ended up buying a house on that trip, and then a year after moving here, we ended up having an opportunity to buy the campground.
42:15
Munro Murdock: So it's a fun story as far as that goes.
42:17
Munro Murdock: Fun times.
42:19
Munro Murdock: So then we have the accommodation pages, luxury log cabins.
42:22
Munro Murdock: They're fully set up like a typical Airbnb would be with all the, all the, full kitchens.
42:28
Munro Murdock: And we have king size beds, queen size sleeper sofas.
42:32
Munro Murdock: So our two-bedroom cabins can accommodate up to six or eight guests, and then our one bed, one bath cabins can accommodate up to four guests is how that works.
42:42
Munro Murdock: And so you can see our campground map here, the layout.
42:45
Munro Murdock: The cabins are f- fairly centrally together near our bathhouse facility.
42:49
Munro Murdock: And then we have the full hookup sites here.
42:51
Munro Murdock: And then we had plans to expand, but we ended up just purchasing the neighboring lot and leaving it wooded for now is what we're doing.
42:59
Munro Murdock: The covered wagons are a hit.
43:00
Munro Murdock: The, these are the Conestoga glamping wagons.
43:02
Munro Murdock: It's modeled after the large freight style wagons of pioneer era.
43:08
Munro Murdock: They have a king bed in there, a bunk bed, a little table, and we also have a private little bath house.
43:14
Munro Murdock: So each wagon guest gets their own private bathroom, which is really cool with you have HVACs, you have heat and AC and electricity.
43:22
Munro Murdock: So it's, it really is that glamorous camping experience and people really enjoy the wagons.
43:27
Munro Murdock: We've had some YouTube content creators come and stay in our glamping units and share some content on YouTube about that, which has been super fun.
43:35
Munro Murdock: The glamping teepees-
43:36
Brian Searl: Munro, did you ever see the mo- show on Paramount Plus 1883?
43:41
Munro Murdock: I didn't really watch that.
43:42
Munro Murdock: I heard about that show, but I've not really watched it myself.
43:45
Brian Searl: It's a good show.
43:46
Brian Searl: I want somebody to do that at some point.
43:47
Brian Searl: I don't know how they'd get their park insured to provide an authentic- Western glamping experience- In like a Conestoga wagon, where you could-
43:55
Munro Murdock: Yeah
43:55
Brian Searl: just wake up and there might be, like, a gunfight at the O.K.
43:58
Brian Searl: Corral outside your place.
43:59
Brian Searl: With blanks, of course, to be safe.
44:01
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
44:02
Brian Searl: And then maybe the wagon wheel just falls off in the middle of the night, just like it would when you're going across the country or something.
44:07
Munro Murdock: That would be awesome
44:08
Brian Searl: it's I bet you that you could find a niche for that.
44:10
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
44:11
Brian Searl: I bet you anything you could imagine in a creative mind, you could find a niche of people who would pay you to stay there for that experience.
44:18
Munro Murdock: Yeah you might have a chance of getting dysentery, you just never know what might happen.
44:21
Brian Searl: Yeah like the wag- the Oregon Trail game in school, yeah.
44:25
Munro Murdock: Exactly.
44:26
Munro Murdock: And it's funny, if you go watch this YouTube video created by this gal, Nevaeh Sousa, she incorporates some of that Oregon Trail stuff into it "You've died of dysentery," just funny little things.
44:36
Munro Murdock: Anyways, so this is our glamping teepee.
44:38
Munro Murdock: We were gonna do multiple.
44:39
Munro Murdock: We've just done one for now, but we do have room to add additional glamping sites in the future, so we've, talked about that.
44:45
Munro Murdock: And then, of course, we have the RV sites.
44:47
Munro Murdock: So again, our- ours is more designed to be a little more on that traditional side, where you can book your type of accommodation preferred.
44:55
Munro Murdock: If you click on Book Now, it launches a separate reservation engine that takes you right in, where you can check real-time availability.
45:02
Munro Murdock: You can go into a semi-interactive map here, where it will show, based on your dates you're inquiring about what the availability looks like and, which sites are available and which aren't, which is nice.
45:12
Munro Murdock: So that helps people to kinda see what they wanna do.
45:15
Munro Murdock: So we try to make that as easy as possible for people to just, find what they want to book, book online 24/7, or they can call us, and we do find that we're getting about 70 to 80% of
45:27
Munro Murdock: people just booking online.
45:29
Munro Murdock: And so that we do like utilizing the technology that way.
45:32
Munro Murdock: A lot of people are still very old school when it comes to RV travel, and so they just...
45:36
Munro Murdock: They might look on the site, have trouble figuring out how to book, and so they'll just call us, and we'll book them over the phone.
45:42
Munro Murdock: But yeah it's been fr- fun.
45:44
Munro Murdock: I think I kinda look at our setup as more of a hybrid, where you have kinda the old school, a little bit of the new school with the glamping, bringing it in, and I feel like that variety has
45:53
Munro Murdock: served us well and helped us to consistently increase revenues over the past four years.
45:59
Munro Murdock: And and we are actually looking to list the campground and sell it too, and so that's kinda been a fun progression of saying, "Okay, taking a campground from strictly cabins and RV sites, adding to it and see what
46:09
Munro Murdock: that does in terms of value."
46:11
Munro Murdock: And yeah, and so it's been a really cool experience for us.
46:14
Munro Murdock: I've enjoyed it a lot.
46:15
Munro Murdock: It's been one of the more fun jobs, I'd say, that I've had in my adult life.
46:20
Brian Searl: What are you gonna do after this when you sell it?
46:22
Munro Murdock: Oh, yeah.
46:23
Munro Murdock: So I'm a real estate broker by trade.
46:25
Munro Murdock: That's what I've done for the past 15 years or so in Hawaii- and now in North Idaho as well.
46:30
Munro Murdock: So just staying here in the North Idaho Panhandle, probably pivoting over to more real estate type of activities is the plan.
46:39
Brian Searl: Yeah and I do wanna say for the people who are watching this, we have a big audience of the traditional RV park and campground owners and operators.
46:45
Brian Searl: There's nothing...
46:45
Brian Searl: I'm not, I don't mean to come across as saying that I think there's anything wrong with that, I just think it's different.
46:50
Brian Searl: And I think as we move forward and there's new generations that are wanting to experience the outdoors, as the evidence says there is in younger millennials and Gen Z and Gen Alpha, there has to be a product to
47:01
Brian Searl: match that demand.
47:02
Brian Searl: And I think the more that you're willing to adapt to that, and that doesn't mean, like, all of a sudden being an entire glamping resort with luxury picnics like Stephanie is, right?
47:11
Brian Searl: It means figuring out, how do I blend that in, whether through services or accommodations like Munro has, or something else to say that I've recognized that, there's an opportunity here for me to increase my business by appealing to
47:28
Brian Searl: audiences that otherwise I traditionally might not thought might not have thought that I appealed to.
47:33
Munro Murdock: Absolutely.
47:34
Munro Murdock: Even just one case in point on that, Brian, just I can share briefly is interestingly enough, there are no, there really aren't many other campgrounds in our vicinity that offer tent site camping tent campsites.
47:46
Munro Murdock: Simple.
47:47
Munro Murdock: A tent campsite is very basic.
47:48
Munro Murdock: We're charging between $35 to maybe $39 a night or something like that.
47:53
Munro Murdock: And it seems inconsequential from a revenue standpoint, but it's a needed niche.
47:58
Munro Murdock: We have the motorcycles come through and do adventure riding through the state, the Backcountry Discovery Route and things like that.
48:05
Munro Murdock: So at the end of the day, we end up bringing in thousands of dollars of revenue every year from tent sites, and they use our bathhouse facilities and things like that, so there are costs associated with it.
48:14
Munro Murdock: But even just adding incremental, thing like a cheap tent site it helps.
48:19
Munro Murdock: It really adds to your profitability and also just to your diversity.
48:24
Munro Murdock: So if people have space, I think they absolutely are well-suited to think outside the box a little bit, maybe willing to experiment, 'cause it's not that expensive to test out some of these ideas.
48:35
Munro Murdock: And if they don't work, you can do something different.
48:36
Munro Murdock: But I think it, it is that idea of adapt or die.
48:40
Munro Murdock: You really do have to be willing to adapt in a way to utilize, some of the technologies and get into some of the other accommodation options if you're an old-school traditional campground.
48:51
Brian Searl: Yeah, and there is a hybrid between this.
48:52
Brian Searl: We've talked about this on the show, I think, a couple times before briefly.
48:55
Brian Searl: Apparently we've just been doing the show for too many years and talked about everything.
48:58
Brian Searl: But I keep saying that I think three or four times.
49:01
Brian Searl: But I think there's an opportunity here for some of the more traditional campgrounds and RV parks to offer even a luxury tenting experience that's not all the way to what Stephanie's offering, and not a full-on glamping experience, but
49:13
Brian Searl: something where you just prep the tent in advance, and you have a sleeping bag there, and you have a mat, and it's comfortable, and you have lighting in there.
49:19
Brian Searl: And you're curating the experience because we've done, we've seen this in our research that there are a lot of people, especially in Gen Z Who really wanna go outside and enjoy the outdoors, but don't understand how because their
49:32
Brian Searl: childhood was not the same as mine was, for example, where I was climbing trees and falling out and experiencing the outdoors with bugs and twisting my ankle, and it just isn't the same today with all the screens and
49:43
Brian Searl: devices and helicopter parenting.
49:45
Brian Searl: I'm not putting every parent in that bucket but it's more prevalent today than it was back when I was growing up.
49:50
Brian Searl: We used to run around the neighborhood and not come home till 10:00 at night.
49:52
Brian Searl: "Oh, you're home.
49:53
Brian Searl: Okay, great."
49:54
Brian Searl: "You missed dinner.
49:55
Brian Searl: Too bad.
49:55
Brian Searl: You gotta go home and...
49:56
Brian Searl: You gotta go to bed without food, right?"
49:58
Brian Searl: But I think that's the, the key is just, is saying "Yes, there's these products out there that are successful, glamping and RV parks and regular tent camping, but how can I create something not necessarily entirely new, but take
50:09
Brian Searl: that away from somebody that's doing it really and say, 'Here's a product that maybe I can charge $75 or $125 a night for a curated tenting experience.'"
50:17
Brian Searl: And again, that doesn't take much, like you're saying, to try it out, and if it doesn't work, then you've bought a tent and a sleeping bag, and you just use it for yourself, right?
50:25
Munro Murdock: Yeah, that's actually a really cool idea that I never would've thought of is taking the tent camp site idea and just setting it up and someone can roll up and say, "Oh, they've got a cool tent," and it's
50:33
Munro Murdock: not a glamping tent.
50:34
Munro Murdock: It's just literally a camping tent but maybe ready to go with the things they need.
50:38
Munro Murdock: That's a wonderful example, I think, of just creative thinking and just exploring ideas that would be very inexpensive to test.
50:47
Brian Searl: Have the campfire ready, have the...
50:49
Brian Searl: Because that's what...
50:49
Brian Searl: We know this.
50:51
Brian Searl: We know they're just nervous and they're nervous because when you or I, when we would make a mistake when we were kids, and I don't mean to age you, Munro.
50:57
Brian Searl: I'm, maybe I'm older than you, maybe I'm younger than you.
51:00
Brian Searl: We'll just keep it secret.
51:01
Brian Searl: But when we were younger, like y- you would go to the mall to meet your friend and, like you'd go to one end of the f- of the mall, and they...
51:09
Brian Searl: You'd just stand, you'd be like, "Meet me by the fountain."
51:11
Brian Searl: You'd go to one end of the mall and stand by the fountain, and he'd never show up.
51:14
Brian Searl: Then you go to school the next day and be like, "Where were you?"
51:16
Brian Searl: He was like, "I was standing by the fountain at the other end of the mall."
51:18
Brian Searl: But you had no way to text each other and communicate that you were at the wrong fountain at the wrong place.
51:22
Brian Searl: You just...
51:23
Brian Searl: it just happened.
51:24
Brian Searl: But now if you make a mistake, it's all over social media and millions of people can see it forever.
51:29
Brian Searl: Yeah, that's interesting.
51:31
Brian Searl: And that's what makes me nervous about not knowing outdoors or setting up their tent wrong or making a mistake.
51:37
Brian Searl: So the more that you can curate that experience and make it easier for them, the more they're willing to come because they do want to come.
51:43
Brian Searl: It's the same thing as the demand versus affordability.
51:46
Brian Searl: It's a demand versus uncertainty in the case of not all Gen Z, but many Gen Z.
51:53
Brian Searl: What do you think, Stephanie?
51:54
Brian Searl: It's been a long time since we talked to you.
51:58
Stephanie Bias: I don't know how much older you guys are than me.
52:02
Stephanie Bias: I'm 28,
52:03
Munro Murdock: 20 years older
52:04
Stephanie Bias: 20, okay.
52:04
Stephanie Bias: So it is really fun to see when families are here, and they bring their kids, and their kids have never been camping before.
52:14
Stephanie Bias: Maybe they've grown up in Chicago.
52:16
Stephanie Bias: They really don't get outside other than like, parks areas or recess at school.
52:21
Stephanie Bias: And they get to experience nature for the first time with very few barriers.
52:27
Stephanie Bias: They don't have to pack the car up and buy all this gear.
52:30
Stephanie Bias: The experience is already ready for them.
52:33
Stephanie Bias: I had a little girl once.
52:36
Stephanie Bias: She was like, "Oh my gosh, can you believe how many stars are out here?"
52:40
Stephanie Bias: And I'm like, "Yeah, it always looks like this.
52:42
Stephanie Bias: We have little to no light pollution in this area."
52:45
Stephanie Bias: And she's like, "I just don't see that where I live."
52:48
Stephanie Bias: So yeah, I think there's different ways to cater to different people, but at the end of the day, we're finding ways to connect people to nature, and I think if you work in this industry, you have to care
52:59
Stephanie Bias: about nature in some way.
53:02
Brian Searl: For sure.
53:02
Munro Murdock: That's cool.
53:03
Brian Searl: All right.
53:04
Brian Searl: Let's spend the last few minutes of the show.
53:05
Brian Searl: Stephanie, do you have a question for Munro?
53:09
Stephanie Bias: Do you get a lot of group bookings?
53:12
Munro Murdock: Yeah, that's a great question.
53:13
Munro Murdock: We have consistently had some decent group bookings.
53:16
Munro Murdock: I would say not a lot.
53:18
Munro Murdock: Once we added the pavilion a couple years ago, it helped.
53:22
Munro Murdock: And so we, we have been getting a little bit more every summer.
53:26
Munro Murdock: I'd say on average in the summer we'll get between maybe four to six is all.
53:30
Munro Murdock: So it'd be maybe booking a lot of the cabins and glamping units for a wedding group that's getting married off-site or a little family reunion.
53:37
Munro Murdock: So I love the idea of group bookings.
53:39
Munro Murdock: They're actually great, right?
53:41
Munro Murdock: Because they just book so many units and it can be very helpful.
53:45
Munro Murdock: It's an area I'd like to do more of, for sure.
53:47
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
53:48
Stephanie Bias: Yeah, I'm curi- I was curious if maybe they rented the cabins and then Uncle Bob has his RV and cousin-
53:55
Munro Murdock: Yeah
53:56
Stephanie Bias: has their tent, so that's fun.
53:58
Munro Murdock: Yeah it's worked out well for that.
53:59
Munro Murdock: We've had a few smaller reunions and some wedding groups, and we partner with a local wedding venue, say, "Hey, if anyone books the venue and wants accommodations, we'll give them a discount."
54:07
Munro Murdock: And so that's been a nice collaboration with other local business owners and stuff.
54:12
Stephanie Bias: That's great.
54:13
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
54:14
Brian Searl: All right, flip it.
54:15
Brian Searl: Munro, you have something for Stephanie?
54:16
Munro Murdock: Yeah, I think my, my question for you would be, what do you see for the future?
54:21
Munro Murdock: Do you have any big plans or next goals for this business for the future, or is it just keep going with what you're doing now?
54:27
Stephanie Bias: I would say just find a way to make this more sustainable long term.
54:33
Stephanie Bias: And what I mean by that is I'm very involved in the day-to-day, and I can't be that way forever, neither can my mom, neither can my aunt.
54:42
Stephanie Bias: It's a discussion of who do we need to hire, who do we need to train to make sure that in 10 years we don't wanna just fall dead.
54:51
Stephanie Bias: Yeah.
54:51
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
54:51
Munro Murdock: Yeah, that's a smart way of thinking, right?
54:54
Munro Murdock: Where you wanna continue to grow this, but it does require a lot day to day, so that makes sense.
54:59
Munro Murdock: That's cool.
55:02
Brian Searl: All right we've got a couple minutes left.
55:03
Brian Searl: We're gonna wrap up.
55:04
Brian Searl: Stephanie, any final thoughts?
55:05
Brian Searl: And then where can they learn more about y- what you got going on with your glamping resort if they're interested?
55:09
Stephanie Bias: No, I just, I appreciate you having us on.
55:13
Stephanie Bias: If they're looking for maybe an event experience where they have their event hosted and then they're also staying on site, we are a good location for that.
55:23
Stephanie Bias: And it's camparamoni.com.
55:27
Brian Searl: Thank you so much for being here, Stephanie.
55:28
Brian Searl: I appreciate it.
55:28
Brian Searl: Munro, final thoughts, and where can they find out more about your, You gave your website already, but just again for the people who missed it.
55:34
Munro Murdock: Yeah.
55:35
Munro Murdock: Thank you so much.
55:35
Munro Murdock: It's been great to be here and to meet with both of you.
55:38
Munro Murdock: Yeah if anyone in the industry is looking to expand, I'd love to have a conversation about our plans to soon list the campground.
55:44
Munro Murdock: And for the guests and travelers, you can just find us at northavencampground.com.
55:49
Munro Murdock: It's a great, beautiful area up here in the North Idaho Panhandle
55:54
Brian Searl: Awesome.
55:55
Brian Searl: Thank you guys for joining us for another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
55:57
Brian Searl: We normally have Outwired here, another podcast, in about 45 minutes, but Scott Bahr's traveling at the glamping show, so we're gonna skip it today and hopefully be back tomorrow.
56:05
Brian Searl: But other than that, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
56:09
Brian Searl: Thank you guys for being here.
56:09
Brian Searl: Appreciate it.
56:10
Stephanie Bias: Thank you.
56:11
Brian Searl: Take care.
56:12
Stephanie Bias: Bye.