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Transcript

Champions 6-7 script read: Mad Dogs and Businessmen! And an interview with Jim Salicrup and Glenn Herdling! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grand Walk and Lane podcast, where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: Except sometimes we take little tangents over into the world of the champions, where Angel and Iceman have been buddying around with Ghost Rider, Black Widow and Hercules, having some misadventures.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: And last time, we got to see the character rampage introduced.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is where the champion starts to get really fun.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to be reading the scripts from
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: and seven this evening.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm Chad Anderson.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: I will be playing your narrator today.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Philip CV.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: I will be rampage and titanium man.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they both might have Russian accents.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: If I feel like it.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: Rampage is not Russian.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone else in this script is but not him.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't vote well for Little Boy.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Mike Rossi.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be playing Angel and Little Boy.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: My name is Sean Fred.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_08]: I will be putting hercules in a Russian doctor.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm Kim Canary and I will be playing a Russian.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: I've won that sort of it.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: And they miss Crowley.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and I've got free and I will be playing Iceman and a cop.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi, casting.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: Iceman, not the cop.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm Christy Porter.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_12]: I will be playing Black Ween though, who is Russian and TV reporter who is probably not.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: My name is Michael Ham.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be playing the Ghost Rider and Richard Finster.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm doing martini.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_18]: I will be bringing this dark star and counters.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right everybody.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the first appearance in dark star, this episode.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yay!
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Woo!
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hi, everyone.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: I am a Ryan Eorio and I am playing a lexky Bruce Ben and Officer Doug.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_19]: Hello.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_19]: My name is Michael Anderson.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, relation to Chad Anderson.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_19]: I am playing Griffin and captain.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is my, my handsome husband, everyone.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: He wrote the theme music for gay mock-and-lay.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: So you've heard that and I credit him at the end of every episode.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: So a rare appearance by, by my other half.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, this review is going to be covering champions number six from June 1976.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Written by Tony Isabella, they now go by Jenny, of course.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: George Tuscca on Pencils Vince Colletta on Inks, Petra Goldberg on Colors, Irving with Honobie on Letters and Marv Wolfman is the editor.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll then be jumping over to champions number seven, where the team is mostly the same.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: Vince Colletta on Inks,
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: Phil Rachelson on colors and Karen meant low on letters.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: And you heard it announced earlier, but this is the first appearance of dark star here.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: We go into some crazy Russian drama.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're gonna jump right in and these issues are a blast.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: So everybody strap in, we're gonna have a great time.
• 2:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: Check begins number six.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: On the cover, the House of Ideas doesn't again, another magnificent, monoral mag, rampage, his jetpack blaring has gripped the black widow and is charging at hercules on the rooftops, behind him, Angel and Iceman on his ice slide have been knocked a skew.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe you clowns just form the champions, but now rampage is going to rip your team apart.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: The avenging Angel!
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: the deadly black widow, Johnny Blaze, the ghost writer, Hercules, Prince of Power, and the incomparable Iceman, five fighters for justice, united to battle the common man, because the world still needs heroes.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: Stanley presents the champions.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about extending a needed hand when ordinary people face out of the ordinary problems.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: With those words, the Angel gave purpose to the newly formed champions, unfortunately, they could also be his last words.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's Mad Dog's in business men, featuring Rampage, the recession-born supervillain who could be you.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: As Angel Iceman, Black Widow, and Ivan Petrovitch look on, worried, Rampage and his red and yellow suit covered in a silver exoskeleton, holds the hair of the unconscious angel ready to punch with a super-powered fist, a tragedy of today.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: Back off heroes, the iceman's already seen my fist ripped through a steel vault, but if you come any closer, you'll all get to see what it does to the angel skull.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: Rampage's threat hangs in the air.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Angel is limp in his grasp.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: When Hercules lunges forward fury behind his eyes, that'll hast issue-di-finals!
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ratch-Mortal!
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: Gullit-big-man!
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: The Joker isn't kidding!
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: Desperate to stop Hercules and save his friend, Iceman hits the demigod with an icy blast.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: Nice try, Ivan, but it looks like the Olympian's gonna be stubborn, so I'll just have to cool it for him.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: Boo, Boo, that wasn't too bright, Sony.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Now has struck thy ally from behind.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's my best friend with a metal midpoint that has profile whiskers.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's enough, both of you.
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Time is money heroes and the seconds you spend arguing could cost the angel his life.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so, our heroes turned their backs, silently agreeing to let rampage go.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: He drops angel to the ground.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: I thought that might quiet you down.
• 4:56
  [SPEAKER_08]: By all the gods, Farina Tasha, this is not the way of the Prince of Power to turn us and walk away from an as yet undefeated foe.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not my way either, Hercules.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Iceman?
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: Not to worry, Widow.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: Just be ready to move when I do.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_07]: And HURK, I'm sorry about the backshot.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_07]: OK, Link.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks, ma'am.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry, Iceman.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_08]: I enjoyed it.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_08]: The matter is already forgotten.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: I spend focuses pushing his powers to their limits.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: The lady sure doesn't ask for the easy ones.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: I've got concentrated never before.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Lower my body temperature to near absolute zero.
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: And when I've reached the lowest possible degree of coldness even I can withstand, I've got to spin around and really pour it on.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's best to wonder women moves with a sweeping motion ice man blasts rampage with a freezing torrent coating the villain's exoskeleton and thick ice and he's soon frozen solid.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: What?
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's sudden freezing blast forming ice all over my exoskeleton?
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: You always this observant chuckle's?
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Rampage strains his body trembling under the biting cold.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: The young fool doesn't he realize I broke out of one of his overgrown ice cubes just minutes ago, but this awful cold, my head is pounding like a trip hammer and it's getting worse.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: The plan has borne fruit Natasha.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: The ice won't hold him for long, but we will be able to get more into safety.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: rampage strains against the frost holding him and tell with a vial and shudder.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: BRACK!
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: My brain feels like it's ready to explode.
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've got to get out of this ice trap.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_12]: Stars!
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_12]: Y'all villain has burst free!
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_12]: Yet war into the sidelines.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_12]: All that they are play made with my widows pipe.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_09]: Tasha, no!
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_09]: Continental, the bruiser alone!
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_09]: And the iceman's too exhausted to help!
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: But the widow is already charging in, determined to keep rampage from striking again, but her widow's bite malfunctions at the wrong moment.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_11]: Fzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_12]: If he pushed me out of the way, and he took those blows himself.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_08]: There will be payment exacted for this foul deed mortal.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: When Hercules is ready to smite with his godly fist.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_08]: Payment most dear.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: Hercules knocks rampage into a car with a crumpet.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, even through my protective costume, I still felt that punch.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: I must have been mad to challenge such power, but I can't surrender to them.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: I may have killed that man who ran between the widow and myself.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've already lost my dream.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: I won't lose my freedom, too.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe this will hold Hercules off long enough for me to escape.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: Desperate and dazed, rampage heaps the crumpled vehicle aside with a surge of strength.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: But Hercules simply punches it out of the air, chum, resulting in an explosion.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: Don't worry guys, he's fine.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_08]: by the shattering shafts of Apollo.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_08]: The earthly conveyance doth rush at me with the speed that doth rival Hermes own, but I am sworn to avenge the loyal friend who has been most cowardly struck down, and I will not be deterred from that vengeance.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: He mentioned the shattering shops of Apollo and Medi Martini got a little flustered over there.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I can't turn me on a little.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: But when the smoke has cleared.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Stigian hordes, the base villain has fled.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: Rampage indeed has escapes, but not far.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: Farman God, no, not far at all.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: On the nearby rooftop, rampage is assessing the threat level, and notices a hole in the roof he might be able to escape through.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: The Ice Man really fouled up the suit's bootjets.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: There was barely enough power to carry me to this rooftop, considering the landing I made.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a good thing I chose the lunch hour to rob that bank.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: At least nobody's likely to notice the hole in the ceiling for a few minutes, and that should be all the time I'll need to make my escape.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, maybe that is what Stuart Clark has become, a madman, but with the help of this old crate, I can write a finish to the criminal portion of my slow journey into oblivion, a costume the bank robber wouldn't stand the chance of getting past the police that have undoubtedly gathered below, but nobody's going to give a second glance to an ordinary workman.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: Taking his exoskeleton off carefully, rampage changes into a brown suit and purple tie, stores his costume in a trunk, and then carries the trunk on his shoulder, walking right by the gathered paramedics, cops, and superheroes without drawing an eye.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: And when he reaches the street, rampage is reasoning proves to be correct, yet even where he garbed in full battle regalia, the champions would scarce notice him in their concern over the fall in Ivan.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: The paramedics load Ivan aboard the ambience,
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: and Angel now awake takes a call.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: One local cop seems very impressed with the heroes.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_08]: Many C.E.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_08]: Vaughan is merely the black widows driver, but me thinks the bond be tox them far stronger.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_08]: That's how I read a two-hirk.
• 10:03
  [SPEAKER_12]: You've got to save him, Doctor.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: At no matter what the expense widow, the champions take care of their own.
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm, books like Los Angeles has itself a superhero team now, backed by the Worthington Fortune no less.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_08]: Will a do everything we can, Madame Romanoff?
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_08]: I can't minimize the seriousness of his injury though, but he's alive, and he is a fighter.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_08]: Beyond that, it's in the hands of God.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know who that armored scum was, that truck him down for this.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_12]: And if you run dice, the world will learn just how deadly the black widow can be.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: What good will that do of on lady?
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get that character.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about that.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we'll get him to make sure he doesn't hurt anybody else.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're the champions, not the Avengers.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_12]: You're playing semantics with me?
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: Lauren, but I suppose you're right.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_12]: The bloodshed won't solve anything.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know he's right with a pay attention frosty i'm about to be right for a record second time we got our tales could just now because we all went off half cocked without planning our attack people the champions need a leader he released is not as he said we don't want to know what they look like full cocked I do
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_08]: Circulies does not deny that I courage winged one, but it would be unseemly for the son of Zeus to follow the commands of a calo youth.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, pal, I haven't got the experience to command a boy scout troop.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I was thinking more in terms of the black widow.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_12]: But?
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_12]: Are you serious, Lauren?
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: Warren steps forward.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: I've fixed on Natasha with conviction.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Look at the way you took command during our battle with Pluto, Natasha.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You've got the know how to lead us.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm convinced of that.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you say, Hercules?
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_08]: But my beard angel, I say, I.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_08]: There be no quest Hercules would not dare for a leader such as this.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: Shondas put hands up.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you as Hawkins and boobs.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's very Hercules.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: And the shit was support.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Hercules picks Natasha up off the ground.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, Hongka!
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: Shut up!
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: She is not pleased after he sets her back down.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey!
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: How about you, Iceman?
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: Fine with me, Lady.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm probably a better spear carrier than a general anyway.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: Why should I care who leads the group?
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: As soon as the champions are running smoothly, the Iceman is going to go into retirement.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Time for Bobby Drake to chuck the superhero trip and start thinking about his future.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't think the Ghost Rider will object widow,
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: Way as everything he says so vaguely horny, it's just great.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ghost Rider, by the way, is too busy and Ghost Rider number 18 in his solo title.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: On sale, even as we speak in 1976, we'll see him shortly.
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: Our first stop is the hospital.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Check.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: Once we're sure of Vans, okay?
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_08]: We will find the villain who did him injury.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_08]: And then my friends, they're shelved.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_08]: be a reckoning.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: But between the present and the hour of that inevitable reckoning, there must pass several hours and a most fateful decision on the 6 o'clock news.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_11]: Welcome to this evening's TV reporter.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_12]: Rampage is the name the police have given the armored morater who attempted to rob the first federal bank early this afternoon.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_12]: only to be stopped by that group of super heroes who have apparently made Los Angeles their home.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_12]: Rampage escaped from the scene of the crime, however, and police have issued an all-points bulletin for.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: And as the reporter broadcasts, images of Rampage robbing the bank, the attorney that Stewart Clark had just threatened last issue and fired,
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: sits in his apartment in a purple chair on blue carpet with orange walls and purple curtains, and I don't know who designed this fucking place.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: Amos Crawley recognizes the new villain on the news.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: My ex clients do it clock!
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: He won't show me sketches of the exoskeleton he's wearing.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: So, that's how that hot shot scientist intended to pay back his credit as.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, a call of the police will pay him back for firing me this morning.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: Never let it be said that Amos Crawley isn't a public spirited attorney.
• 14:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's switch to Clark Futuristics, call it a dream-gone bust, just one more insignificant victim of the recession.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Stewart Clark can port his soul into a vision of the future only to see that vision destroyed by inflation, unfair competition, and it doesn't other factors beyond his control.
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: The dream dies slowly.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: The dreamer faces bankruptcy and imprisonment, seeing a sad song for a dream-gone bust and add a refrain for the dreamer.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: In his empty lab, Clark holds up his exoskeleton and is ready to give it up once and for all, but suddenly oddly green police cars pull up outside.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: And Stuart Clark is rampage, right?
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, that's correct.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, sir.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've been lucky so far, but I better take this rig apart before.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_07]: Clark, this is the police.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: Good lord.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_07]: We know you're in there, Mr. Clark.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_07]: Come out with your hands up.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Make it easy on yourself.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: Your laboratory is surrounded.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: you can't escape.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't let them put me in prison, but I can't fight half the police force either, and my bootjets are too damaged to fly me to safety.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Unless.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Outside the police are regrouping.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_18]: There's been no response from inside, sir.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_18]: Should we break in?
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_19]: Last!
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_19]: Which is the strongest curse when I know.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_19]: I hate to do it this way, but I guess we don't really have much of a choice, Congress.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_19]: Tell them to go in.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_18]: Hold it, guys.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_18]: I think I heard something from in there.
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_18]: Like an engine being warmed up.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: No!
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Black slammed through the door with his jetpack roaring straight into the officer's preparing to enter.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: Kira!
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: She's back his rampage.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't realize that'd be standing near the door.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: I thought this experimental ionic jetpack would get me to safety without forcing me to harm anyone.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: But now it may have made me a murder twice over.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's only a small amount of fuel in this thing.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll have to land within minutes.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: And if I have killed that officer, I don't stand a chance of getting out of the city alive.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: Rampage rockets upward, getting as much distance from the cops as possible.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: Meanwhile, quick cut to the UCLA medical center, where Iván is recovering his head in bandages.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_08]: Then the valianty von will recover?
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_12]: Not or say, he was lucky hercules.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's as if Frampage pulled this punches at the very last second.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_07]: And just outside Iman's room.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a good thing the widow station Minera Radio.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to have get a second crack at rampage sooner than we figured.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: He and the police are having a run and battle down Hollywood Boulevard.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: And sure enough, things have gotten much worse for rampage, cops are firing guns at him as he throws concrete blocks at their green cars.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Blam, crack, wham!
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: My god, that's like a battlefield.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: How long can I hold them off by throwing these hunts to concrete?
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: How long before I accidentally kill it again?
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: There are no answers to Stuart Clark's unvoiced questions, only to the seeming threat he poses.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: They are, of course, the wrong answers, but those who give them have no way of knowing this.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then, rampage is hit by multiple bullets as they ricochet off of him.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: Spang.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Fwing.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Quee.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: Why won't you leave me alone?
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to kill anybody else.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Can you beat that?
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: He thinks we're going to let him walk away after he nearly killed Connor.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Still, there's something about his voice.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's not as dangerous as they say.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_07]: That is speed up your psychoanalysis done, because the clown's number just came up.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Look, here come the champions.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: And friend by Golden Light, it's our heroes, Ice Man, on his ice slide, Angel carrying the Mace of Hercules, Widow swinging on a line, Hercules running in his hip-high boots.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's our pigeon group.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_08]: You'll lead the attack, Warren.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_08]: Hi, Angel, and make good the use of the Golden Mace that would dust wild.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_08]: It was fashioned by a festive himself in the secret forge of Olympus.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Nice going, Herk.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_07]: You found a perfect gift for the mutant who has everything.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Angel dives, mace raised high.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Poor, I'm not frostbite, but at least I believe in sharing the wealth.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mace to the face, clump!
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I owed you that one rampage, but we can end this battle right here if you'll surrender to the authorities.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: I just wanted to sit quietly out of town, but if I have to, I'll fight my way out.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Bad move, Mr. And you have to be a lot faster than that to catch the angel anyway.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even if I weren't backed up by the Iceman.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: Black Widow takes quick command of the team, instructing Iceman to project Ice Daggers.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_12]: People of the Buraj Iceman.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, I'm not exactly new at this, you know, a model through somehow.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe I, perhaps I am overplaying this leadership role.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: With a leap, the Black Widow vaults forward preparing to hit rampage from behind.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'd better concentrate on my part of the attack and strike as only the Black Widow can.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Bunch!
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: She hits him right in the ice pack.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: What the devil?
• 18:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, hero.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, wait, sorry, type again.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Bunch!
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: She hits the right in the jet pack.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's not the record.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Is that either or?
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: What the devil?
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, heroes.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't want this.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: But if I'm going to be treated like a supervillain, then I'll act apart.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'll be the deadliest men as those world has ever seen.
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Come on, Hercules.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've knocked you down twice before.
• 18:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: A third time shouldn't be too difficult to manage.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hercules.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_08]: This deemed them mad when first we too clashed mortal, but matter no.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: That must be stopped.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a punch.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: POM!
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give it up, man.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_08]: You've lost already.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_08]: I have no desire to harm thee further.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_12]: Listen to them.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_12]: You've been lucky so far.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_12]: Both my chauffeur and the police man would recover.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_12]: The courts will be.
• 19:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: The courts will put me behind bars.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd sooner die than spend most of my life in a prison cell.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_12]: Get killed in LA cop.
• 19:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what's gonna happen.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's around on all sides, rampage rushes to get away and hits a nice wall.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: Heads up, champs.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's making his move for all the good it'll do him.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Smash!
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: The suit's power is failing.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't keep my balance.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: You had your chance to come peacefully rampage.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_12]: You should've taken it.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_12]: Now we're going to do this the hard way.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, kick to the face.
• 19:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, this suits components are burning out.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: It can't stand much more of this punishment, if I can just squeeze a few more seconds of flight out of the jetpack.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry, pal.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Nobody violates my airspace.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_08]: Walk, mace to the head.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: Stay out of the reach of those armored fist winged one, Herculeshell and this unfair battle, with the least possible delay.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tao thrown into the wall by a denny god.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm finished.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: The jetpack is hopelessly smashed, but there's still some fuel left in it, and like I told them, I'd rather die than, oh, go to prison.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hit the deck, people.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: Rampage throws his jetpack into the street, and it explodes.
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Whom?
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: The dream is over.
• 20:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: The future of Stuart Clark ends with a bang and a whimper.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Or does it?
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: Were you in time?
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: I covered both him and us with ice shields, but he was so close to the blast.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_12]: You've backed the injured, but he's breathing.
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_12]: You saved him.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, for what?
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: So we can maybe spend the rest of his life in the slammer or some asylum?
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_12]: He's alive, I spend.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_12]: You gave him that much.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_07]: Come on, team.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's go home.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: But Amy's crawly is still waiting in his apartment.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: So, he's still alive, hmm?
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: He never had a chance to alter my power of attorney status in regard to Clark Futuristics.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: I move fast enough, I can sell the company and make a tidy fee for myself, even after paying his credit as.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: My, what a pleasant evening this has turned out to be!
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: And now onto issue 7, the cover!
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: A massive supervillain, the griffin, holds the neck of the black widow in his massive clawed white glove, his thick legs and red tail turn to the camera, his eagle wings spread over his back.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_19]: He screams, you don't stand a chance against the griffin champion, and wait till you just face the rest of my team.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to wait for this guy over there, I love him, I'm feeling sad.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: everyone in LA is either from Russia or New York apparently.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a melting pot.
• 21:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's me, the Griffin.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I getcha.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, to be fair, a lot of people do bail for LA afternoon.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Fair.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: The champions rush to face the Griffith and the Ghost Rider is back, finally, in this incredible issue, you will also meet the man who created the Black Widow.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: Welcome to the Champions Temporary Headquarters, a plushed suite in a 23-story top-dollar Los Angeles office building whose first visitor has quite surprisingly turned out to be Richard Fenster, but also a bomb!
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: A winged mechanical project tile flies through the window and hercules tries to grab it knocking over a pink lamp.
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_08]: I like that it's a pink lamp, it's not just a lamp, it's pink.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_08]: By all the gods, it moves too swiftly for me to seize it!
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't even try Herk.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_07]: If Fenster's right, it could be said to explode on contact.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: Then Herk, punches that out of the air, wham.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_08]: By the gods, it's even more slippery than Ice Man's penis.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_08]: If I cannot seize yon device, then I shall render it harmless with but one smashing blow.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: That's strike two big fella.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see if I have any, let's see if I have any better what going after it from above.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_07]: Wink.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it reverse direction, shattered my ice slide.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: It is a little fall-in, if you look at the art.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: Iceman builds a slide into the air only to get knocked right off it.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's heading this way again.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_07]: Fear not, friend.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_07]: Iceman.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hercules.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: Hath thou.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't lose your cool, Dickie boy.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I know how to handle it now.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: It must be programmed to avoid anything that it can't break through.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: So this thick, super hard ice cylinder should leave it with only one way to go.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Right into herks, hot little hands.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, this is the real dialogue.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: He calls the Hercules Bikki boy and then talks about his thick super hard ice cylinder that he's got to launch the projectile right into herks hot little hands.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not joking.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's so just I'm just asking is this heated rival rate is the plot of heated rival rate?
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_18]: Like is it?
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_18]: I think it is.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_18]: There's just as many Russians.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_08]: Are you gonna go in for another watch demand?
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_18]: I know you watched it a few times That's what I was doing until Chad texted me to remind me that we're recording I had literally just started episode one.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_08]: Nice.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_08]: I love it.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_08]: I stand ready winky face my young ally It shall not escape me a third time.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_08]: Look out Oakie leaves it here it comes
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: The projectile carines off the sides of the ice tunnel and then ends up hitting hercules right in the stomach, knocking him down, poop, and then walks the black widow and Evonne Petrovich.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_12]: What's going on in here?
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_12]: We heard the commotion and, oh, guys, get that out there!
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_08]: This be the cause of any commotion, fair Natasha, although it may seem perhaps the inventive companion can shed some light on its purpose.
• 24:49
  [SPEAKER_08]: Treated with kid clothes, Ivan, it might be dangerous.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_12]: Ivan was handling toys like that before you were or I were born my frozen friend.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_12]: Give him a half hour and he'll tell you who made it, why it was made and quite possibly what they had for breakfast the day they made it.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: But nearby, someone is watching them on a view screen, cue the introduction of a lexie bruskin.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm counting on Ivan's skills, my dear Black Widow.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_15]: For what is the game without worthwhile at the series?
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_15]: How sad when we next meet, it shall not be for anything as trivial as a mere sport.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm afraid when next this old soldier has the occasion to face Natasha Romanov and her
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_15]: Inigmetic Companion, Ivan, the three of us will be embroiled in a desperate struggle for survival.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: And on that ominous note, we switch scenes to a nearby hospital and an exasperated Emerson Bale.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: Remember how rampage was wounded when his jetpack blew up?
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Angel sent his own personal
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_18]: You're a fool, Mr. Clack!
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I don't wish to be defended by the high-powered lawyer of the Wing Freak who put me here, don't be ludicrous, Mr. Bale.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Frustrated, Bale exits the room and reports back to Angel and Johnny Blaze.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right, the human version of Ghost Riders finally back.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's no use, Warren.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_18]: He won't accept my ID.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_18]: And without it, the fine scientific mind of Stuart Clark shall be undoubtedly the left-the-tender mercies of the penal system.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for trying Mr. Bale.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and Iceman's headpokes around the corner did someone say penal system?
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't around when you and the other partners had it out with this Clark Phil angel.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: What makes him so downright special?
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a genius, Johnny.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Develop a suit of exoskeleton armor that put him in a league with Iron Man.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when a research company he owned went bust, his mind snapped.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: He started robbing banks to get out of debt.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's where we came in.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have no way of knowing that rampage, as the police were calling him, was a sick man.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Our last battle with him got pretty hairy and ended with his attempted suicide.
• 26:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: For a long time, the docs here didn't think he would recover.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: As for why I'm trying to help him, isn't that what the champs are all about?
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't disagree with the sentiment pal, but it's been my experience that nobody passes on a sure thing unless they got a sad bit going.
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Clarks up to something, so I suppose I should talk to him, not as Johnny Blaze, but as the Ghost Ratter.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: What the?
• 27:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: In a series of horrifying panels, Blaze changes into the demonic ghost rider.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: His flesh shifting to his bare skull lit on fire.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: But then the door bursts open and two cops go flying out.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wham, ugh!
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody blasted those guards.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And whoever he is wants to bushwack us, too.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sweet jumping, catfish.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, if you were sure the guy was southern, we got there with sweet cat jumping catfish.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Shit, so funny.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: And in the hospital room, it's the Griffin.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: His white face framed by a massive lie and Maine, and a brand new super-wheel in a blonde woman in blue and purple, her name is Dark Star.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_17]: We can't let them prevent us from escaping with our newest teen member, Griffin.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_19]: Don't sweat it, Dark Star.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_19]: What's your black energy, could it do?
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_19]: My razor star?
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_19]: Lion claws will accomplish quite nicely.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, rip his heart out.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: I absolutely am in love with you, Mike.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-oh, from what I remember reading of the Griffin, he's a homicidal maniac, cowboy.
• 28:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's time for a hillfire blast.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, flesh back to amazing adventures, number five, one of the more recent Marvel team up, number 38, all of which has been covered on Grey Malkin Lane.
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: The Griffin is a former two-bit kind of mafia thug who got turned into this guy with lion main lion paws, eagle wings, lion tail, they're all grafted on, he's become this horrific monster.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: But before Ghost Rider conformed the blast, Griffin has a lion paw ready with a punch, then a tail swipe, suck, whap!
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ghostwriters knocked into a wall.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_19]: Not fast enough, Ghostwriters.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_19]: These eagles wins aren't for show.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ugh.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_19]: And while I put out these puny flames, my tail will finish you off.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_19]: He's still breathing, but not for long.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_19]: That's enough, Griffin.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_19]: Clark is our only objective for now.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_19]: Lady, the only good superhero was a dead one, but it's no skin off my nose if you want to let him live a little longer.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_19]: I want to the angel anyhow.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_19]: Too bad he just turned tail and ran the minute it got interesting there.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_19]: Gah!
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: Dark star and Griffin each take one of Clark's arms and go flying for it.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: Try to rescue him, but then they're hit by a thrown bottle of gas, from the nearby shirtless angel who has assumed that they are taking Clark against his will.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Angel swoops in to stop Clark from falling, taking him instead to a nearby rooftop, assuming he's innocent.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_17]: A gas attack can't hold on.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: What?
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm falling.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry for the belated rescue Mr. Clark, but the nurses aren't in the habit of giving out gas bottles to every wingman who runs into their supply room.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: What?
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: be idiot, he doesn't realize I wanted to go with Darkstar in the Quirfin.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd probably disappointed the Griffin by not going in there slugging, but Warren Worthington has grown up a lot during these past few months.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd like to think I used my head more these days.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you all right, Mr. Clark?
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Huh?
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, kid.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just fine.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now that I've had a chance to use this Exo Glove Darkstar smuggled into the hospital for me,
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: With a power glove on his right hand, Clark turns with a super-powered punch, wide angel response by spreading his wings wide and flapping hard enough to knock Clark over with a gust of air, which is something I've never seen this character do before.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's wild.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ooh, and that's only the beginning.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wrong, Mr.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but the angel is nobody's punching bag.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: That was flapping, not fapping.
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: I just want to be clear.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: But Angel hasn't met Darkstar.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: Flying high above, she generates restricting bands of Darkforce to bind Angel's wings.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_17]: You'll do neither Angel.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_17]: My energy bands will squeeze the life out of you.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're already tightening.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's getting hard to breathe.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_17]: The angel is finished, actually the bands will loosen automatically when we leave.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_17]: Your is planned calls for all the champions, say for Black Widow and Yvonne, to die at the same time.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_17]: If our blood durs the griff and knew that angel was still alive, he might kill him now and spoil every.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And while you ponder the meaning of that string of thoughts, gentle reader, the flying off will clark.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: That means they beat the angel.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't do war and any good down here, so I reckon all I can do is keep those buzzards inside.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: and Ghostwetter generates his flaming motorcycle to give pursuit, but the villains have noticed.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_19]: I warned you about this dark star, that flame faced idiot is following us.
• 31:45
  [SPEAKER_19]: Just get clocked to hit quarters, please, and I'll deal with the ghosts right now.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: Darkstar Blink is the area in huge pillars of black light, but Ghost Rider reminds you that he's a motorcycle hero more than a horror atomic, at least at this point.
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: He rushes his bike through the barriers with expert control room.
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh great, the Philly shoots out that weird black lighter hers and the roads become an obstacle course.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Somehow, I don't reckon it'd be too swift to not deal to hit one of those things.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on Skullsackle, it's time to do some fancy riding.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Blast.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, this don't just went from difficult to impossible.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: These things are moving closer together.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to make it.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then the crash as the bike explodes, angels there to grab his ally and pull him to safety.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Angel, you pulled me out of the blast.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Heck, what are partners for?
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: The group and in the others got clean away.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see them again, Johnny.
• 32:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've got this nasty hunch that we've just fought the first battle of an all-out war.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: And back at the hospital,
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: You got any idea how long it'll take the three of us?
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It can't be held, Dice Van.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of important people will be at tomorrow's dedication, ceremony, publicity-wise.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can't afford any surprises.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not like the one that flew through our window this morning.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: In truth, I am sorely confused by the pump and circumstance, attending the founding of the champion.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_08]: Do we truly require all this?
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are how our power times Hercules, the high speed organization with plenty of manpower is needed to accomplish the kind of job we want to do.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps friend, Fenster, but Hercules does long for a simpler times.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: You and me both Hercules, I'm afraid my buddy Warren has taken this whole project way too far.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, actually Dickie Boy, there's a real danger to the champs.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: loose sight of the common joes were supposed to be helping.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: Think about it.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: I have and it's just one more reason that once Warren gets the group running smoothly the Ice Man is calling it quits.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: But as Ice Man broods the mysterious man in purple and green is hiding behind a filing cabinet Alexie Bruskin is back.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_15]: If they're remain here much longer, they're certain to discover me.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_15]: I cannot risk that.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll have to arrange a diversion even if it means
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, wow.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_08]: Shit.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_08]: I can see y'all in Tudor's form, but the darkness-doth cloak is identity.
• 34:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's escaping into the corridor, if he reaches the stairwell, we'll never catch him.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_08]: Only this wall stands be Twix Us, and the base-born villain we pursue, and by the strength which is mine, it shall stand no more.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: And Hercules rips down a wall.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: Crunch, and Ice Man is ready with a slippery ice patch to trip the man, Fris.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yep, this sound effect is used here as Fris.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, it's gonna cost a fortune to get that well repaired by tomorrow before our slightly overeager Olympian rips the whole building apart.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I better stop our fleeing friend myself.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: And there's a little boy outside.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I have him, my man.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_08]: I buy my soul.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right, the villain is disappeared in hercules without meaning to a scared little boy, a little boy, a little kid of color, out on all his own.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm sorry, I sneaked in here, Mr.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_16]: But I had to, you see, I heard about you and your friends on the television, the man said, if people who are in trouble come to you, that you're supposed to help them and Mr.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_16]: I need help, awful bad.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: The child brushes into hughercules who looks to his friends not knowing what to do.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_15]: What incredible good fortune.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_15]: The child distracted them logging up for me to reach the opposite stairwell.
• 35:27
  [SPEAKER_15]: Moreover, my scouting mission was a success.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_15]: I've learned enough about our foes to ensure a complete victory.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_15]: Soon, I will have my revenge.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_15]: revenge on the man that has made me an outcast, I am.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_15]: The man that champions note is Iva, but who I know as my dear father.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: Gasp!
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right, our mysterious villain is the son of Iva on Petrovitch and some of you were like, wait, who's Iva on Petrovitch?
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was very issue.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: Meanwhile, in a jury rigged lab in the champions temporary quarters Ivaun has disassembled the earlier
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_09]: Your own uninvited flying object breaks down in three major components, Tasha.
• 36:11
  [SPEAKER_09]: A hidden audiovisual unit in the front for communication and guidance.
• 36:18
  [SPEAKER_09]: A storage unit in the center and a propulsion unit at the end.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_12]: Now the big question, old friend, who said that?
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_09]: This storage unit was the giveaway kid.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_09]: Look what's inside it.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: A Black Pearl, Ivan, there's only one man in the whole world who would send this.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of calling card, all right.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: But someone is listening through that very device and the villain speaks.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_15]: You are sleeping, Comrade.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_15]: Once you would have instantly realized my identity.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_15]: Have the years weighed so heavily against us?
• 36:51
  [SPEAKER_12]: At Luis, it is him!
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_15]: Naturally, my little Therina, and should you desire further verification?
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_15]: You have but to join me, I shall be waiting.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_12]: I can see him, Ivan.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_12]: He's on the roof across the street!
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_12]: There's only one way to learn what he wants.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Natasha, wait!
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: It might be a trap!
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: But Natasha jumps out of the window, except extending her widow line and swinging over the opposite rooftop, while thinking about history that took place in Avengers number 16 and 44.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: Drap.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, it could be.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_12]: But why would commissar Brucekin come after us now?
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's been years since Ivana and I have defected to America.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: Another attempt was so clumsy that I could never believe Brucekin was a part of it.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_12]: Not that I haven't had an occasional altercation with my former Soviet masters in the past, but for a long time now, Yvonne and I have stayed far removed from politics as possible.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: Gary on our own personal debt.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: I hate French words, guys.
• 37:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: Gary got our own personal data, with those who would bring us full circle to the question that started this reverie.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_12]: Why does one of the Soviet unions, high-est ranked intelligence chiefs, come to America to see two people who used to be a top agents.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_12]: We talked out of sight while I was swinging over here.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is like one of our old training exercises.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you could just add a soccer blue, it's a club.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_12]: Look at that!
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: Black Widow simply searches the roof and soon finds a gun to her head.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, there you are.
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: You want to play this game with a touch more subtle deal, teacher.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_12]: But there's something you should know.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't play games anymore.
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: A sidekick, a sharp slap.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: SAH!
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: In the man is disarmed.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_15]: Excellent.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_15]: Excellent.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_15]: Edna not been prepared.
• 38:46
  [SPEAKER_15]: You would have disarmed me.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_15]: And quite possibly broken, my dress.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_15]: So it is you, after all these years.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_15]: The years have treated you kindly Natasha.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_15]: You've grown even lovelier than you were as a girl.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_15]: But you were always a creature of wearer beauty to me.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_15]: A unique treasure.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_15]: Like a precious.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_12]: Blackfarl, your nickname for me, I remember.
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: What do you want with that Brucekin?
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_12]: Ivana and I are through with your way of life.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_12]: I would have thought you'd realize that.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_15]: I trained you in Natasha, no one knows you better than I, and you know, you and I, and have always been more than agents to me.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_12]: Ah, it's good to see you again, old friend.
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: Taken in by the voice of her old mentor, the Black Pearl, I mean the Black Widow, offers a hand.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_15]: We will have a future reunion later, Sarina.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_15]: But now, I must warn you of... ARG!
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: RUSKIN!
• 39:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: At the edge of a rooftop, a massive suit of green armor has fired a huge blast.
• 39:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Don't waste time worrying about him with all your troubles are just beginning.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's another Soviet agent, the titanium man, which means next issue, it's Dark Star, the Griffin, the Outcast, that's Brucekin, rampage, and three more super-shock surprises that you dare not miss.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: And that is our script read for today, ladies and gentlemen.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, there's a lot in this one.
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: It is a fun, fun time.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: We got to start with Iceman's in
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: Scott.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: Iceman, when not thinking about super hard cylinders, is just planning his own retirement.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: Talk to us about Bobby's journey in this episode.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_07]: It is a lot, iceponds, unintentional question mark, a homo erotic, like one liner.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just like one after another about grasping as icy cylinder and giving it to her and getting on top of her or getting below her.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And I think the least believe we'll part of that is him getting on top of her, but you know, whatever Bobby's dreams are I support them are you saying that Bobby wouldn't crawl on top of him.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_07]: I think Bobby would crawl across a desert.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_18]: I was like, he would come at it from above.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe it definitely come.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_12]: No, we know he was in the back shot and guys, come on.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm calling Fenster Dickie Boy while thinking of his own retirement and kind of how overall this he is, now that Angel's not paying him all this attention.
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: Also, we get this kind of power move for him where he talks about his body going to absolute zero, which is it's many years before Lobdell's going to pick up that story and turn him fully into ice later.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: That's a much later story, but we start to see the power up here.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Bobby's in a weird place at this point because
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: he's both like excited to be on the team and you know like oh don't give me advice like lady I know what I'm doing but then every thought is oh god I can't wait to quit it's just it's a weird point in his life Angel is also out of crazy journey here spending money right and left talking about like I got whatever he buys a 23 floor apartment building or whatever for their headquarters
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: while also getting hercules's mace in some key moments here.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Guys, I apologize.
• 42:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have yet to inherit those trillions that I talked about last time, so no 23 story building for us just yet.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it was nice to see Angel sort of recognizing Black Widows abilities.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like he's always kind of like being an astronaut, kind of like sliding some
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Snide comments, not that he didn't necessarily do that this time around, but, you know, it was kind of nice to see him putting her forth as their leader of the team.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: And with Hercules' Maces amazing, and then we have that weird move where he just flaps his wings so hard it knocks someone over in the balloon.
• 42:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: Just so stupid to be.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like you got it.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is it used?
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Use the gifts that God gave you, so he just, you know, there's only so much you can do with those wings.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I suppose.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: Hercules is here as the power player shot you have really grasped like the crazy Hercules speeches at this point Like you're no longer stumbling at all these crazy words and like prepositions But also like some coat cool like feminist moments as he like recognizes Black Widow's power Well, I practice cuz I started watching Percy Jackson like yesterday So I got at least he's down buddy
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, I really liked Hercules journey in this because growing up, I remember like, people didn't think Black Widow was like special because she doesn't have powers until MCU, we all recognize her now.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_08]: But like the fact that Hercules recognizes that her being the only woman on the team and not having any powers like it reals to us, he still sees her as a leader.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought that was a really cool moment.
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_08]: Especially since in the first few comics, he's kind of like coddling towards the female.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_08]: So I like that they added that.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_08]: That was a nice touch.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's also getting some cool, well, you know, 70s is like second wave feminism mixed with this like recession era stuff that we're seeing and then like the Russian threat of the Cold War all kind of mixing together and this is is is very fun black widow is also going through it we get hints to her secret origins.
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now if we go back to the early Black Widow appearances in the Avengers, she starts out as the Russian spy literally in like a widow's costume, like a veil over her face black dress, flirting with Hawkeye to get him to go after Iron Man for his industrial secrets.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: She later comes back as kind of the more amped up threat, the redhead, and then joins the Avengers.
• 44:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's the storyline where her husband was like the cosmonaut, the red guardian who died in the plane, and now she's
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: all of the like spy training and like the red room stuff is all still pretty behind the scenes for this character.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: She then had her long stint in San Francisco with their devil before joining the champions.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: So this is a big reveal for her.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: The guy that she used to trust in Russia coming here.
• 44:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a big moment of red revelation for this character.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I don't want to over-generalize, but I feel like a lot of times when you meet like a baddie who's like running a team and is like super cool.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: Her personal life is an absolute mess.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: So like, the fact that all the members of her team behind her back are speculating about her relationship with the bond, only for Yvonne's apparent son to show up who also apparently seems to have some kind of sexual tension with Natasha.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_12]: I feel like this is just like, it's messy.
• 45:06
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's beautiful.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: I wouldn't have it any other way.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: But Iván's son looks like he's like 60 years old too.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like these characters have been alive since the 1910s.
• 45:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, like Iván's like a sort of silver fox.
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_12]: But I don't know what a, what is a brisket, maybe maybe not so much.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: Kevin in the dual role of Iván Petrovitch and Amis Crowley.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: I talked to us about Iván's journey here.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's realizing some frayalties.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Fuck you for having 40 Russian characters here with everybody doing better Russian accents than me.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: My agent will be sending you.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's great.
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: I love how I've been involved in this more for the support of Black Widow's story.
• 45:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: Because I do think, you know, that's the interesting thing.
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Putting her as the leader and kind of flushing out what she's all about in this book.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: I think is what makes champions really interesting for me.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: So I love the fact that she's getting that kind of round it out story.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we are really diving into Russia.
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: So it's fun.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I get knocked out in the one, you know, issue really quick, which is also sweet because everybody's really worried about them and then making rumors about me not being just the chauffeur.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: I love it.
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you get to, I love where it touches like really amping up, evon to the team like if he takes this apart, he can tell you what the creator had to breakfast this morning.
• 46:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: But no, it's more importantly, it's the phallic symbol that he knows very well too.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: So it just continues the entire story.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: But it was just your kid that made it.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: And by the way I recommend everybody listen to these these script reads and follow along with the comic because some of these visuals with what's going on in here is priceless I also like your head voice.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, I was going to say that I loved that what if I was in the hospital Kevin like wrapped some pantages around his head that was fantastic Hey, that's what my character was doing man.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what I got to do
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then we've got Ryan Eorio on Grey Molkin Lane as the incredible Alexey Broskin, not the character you expected to play with, you asked to do a script read, but delicious kind of malicious Russian.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: I really didn't know a lot about Alexey prior to this.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure if anyone really did, but it was a lot of fun and I kind of like it because you at this point right now in the comic, you're like, is he really here to help widow or as he have like some other.
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: ideas which he obviously does with his monologues that he had.
• 47:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: So just very excited to be here and it was a blast to avoid some and sorry for my bad Russian accents as well too.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: So he's in exactly four issues and they're all champions.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll get to this character's whole history in the next few months.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Excellent.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like expanding our Russian cast, we had to feel showing up very briefly as the Titanium Man.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: What's going to fight an Iron Man but also a threat from Russia, a Titanium man who's even bigger.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is an Iron Man foe, he's facing the threat of the larger war machine.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're also going to see Crimson Dynamo showing up here who's the red version of the Russian Iron Man.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: They'll be here next issue.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then we have to go to demand a martini to celebrate the incredible arrival of landing up the throne of the Dark Star.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's go fill in then, Maddie.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think the thing that I was looking at is you've got a couple of characters either introduced or popping in like rampage or titanium man or dark star and I was like, man, dark star wins the design award like the other two designs suck or get better over time, but dark star is like slaps from moment one her costume is always incredible so I was jealous.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: I love Darkstar.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_18]: I've loved her for a long time, so I think the first time I met her was when she makes that cameo appearance when the ex done randomly go to Russia and there's the sole skinner who is in those those two issues.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_18]: So I've always again, she has a dumb headpiece, so I'm in that headpiece, so I've cosplayed out her in her second costume.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_18]: This first costume is fun, like the purple pants, it's kind of fun, but her second costume is way better.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: But that headpiece did actually almost kill me when when I wore it But I love her and I when you asked me to do darks are obviously I was super excited and then I was like, I was like, okay, we got to work on the Russian cuz like the last time I did a Russian accent for that terrible ballerina For the maclosus For the class of story I was like, I was like, oh, that wasn't very good, but now that I'm on your macaroa Well, what's your name?
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, but now that I've reheated the rivalry so many times
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_18]: that my my Russian accent is getting a little better.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Darkstar's power set is really cool.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: Maddie, do you want to talk about her dark light powers?
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, so so she's one of the characters that can tap into the dark force dimension.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_18]: And um, Philip, yes, I do have that figure.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_18]: Give me one second.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: And I will show it.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, she's literally, she's sitting back here.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_18]: But you, she's like, she's right there.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, there we go, awesome.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_18]: She's right there.
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, but uh, and I also got these cool power signatures for her.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: I bought on Etsy.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, but so she can tap it to the dark force dimension and she can use it pretty much like a green lantern where she could make constructs added it.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_18]: She's also been as far as I remember.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_18]: She can also teleport people sometimes.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's one of those like we need someone to teleport.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_18]: I think Darkstar could probably do it.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_18]: So she's done that like once or twice.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_18]: and also like a much like cloak or who some of the like some other people have dark four things like people feel like cold or like sad sometimes when they when they get wrapped up in her powers but she's and she's another twin character who I'm sure we're going to meet her her twin brother soon but she's she's more of the mutant siblings like Wanda and Pietro where their powers don't have anything to do with each other instead of with you know characters who
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_18]: to have their powers.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: So there may be some major celebration for Darkstar happening on my show later this year.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: I haven't officially decided, but I'm not in that direction.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: But you can go listen to my character episodes on the presence and starlight, who is Darkstar's evil dad and step mom.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: So that one's a host of the people that you see.
• 51:01
  [SPEAKER_18]: He's horrible, but so again, so I did cosplay her and what my favorite details about that costume is without I think he accidentally miscolored it, but um, cyan man who designed the dice of accidentally need her thumb black because it's actually a separate piece in the pattern, but like when they meet but when it made, I actually kind of liked the fact that it's she has a black thumb.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: I thought it I thought it looked cooler.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_18]: But anyway, I love dark star.
• 51:26
  [SPEAKER_18]: She's
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: Welcome back to Michael Ham is Ghost Rider and he's finally back.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ghost Rider is having his own solo title adventures with some truly wild super villains like like the water wizard and the orb over and his own title that welcome back sweet jumping cat fish.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's Michael Ham sweet jumping cat fish.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't I don't know what's going on with Ghost Rider and the other titles, but I do feel like maybe he should just stay there because
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: He really just kind of showed up and said, you know what?
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: This looks like a job for Ghost Rider, then got his ass handed to him by the Griffin.
• 51:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then he was like, oh, shit, they stole the person.
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me go save the day.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then got lost, then fell into Dark Stars powers, then had to get saved by Angel.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then was like, well, maybe next time.
• 52:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we didn't get to see his face melt off.
• 52:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It could blow those panels.
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're pretty, uh, the body horror.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ask, yeah, for sure.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: Say, your finster, when he just spots the guy behind the file cabinet was the best moment of the entire thing.
• 52:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: Look over there, there's a guy standing here with the bell.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's stopped, there's a guy.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Literally, there's a guy right there.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, Fenster being like the not superhero guy spotting the villain, amazing.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_18]: But also how many people are on Warren's staff in this episode, like they're like, and like none of them are Cameron Hodge.
• 52:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: The griffin is like a 7-foot tall 500-pound lion man with wings and my husband gave him the stupidest baby voice ever.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: Welcome to my dear Michael, joining the cast today.
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, talk to us about crafting the voice for the griffin and perhaps what it's like to jump into a script read.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: You have no idea what the fuck is going on.
• 52:59
  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, I figured Griffin's have bird heads, so I tried to give him like a bird voice, even though he has a lion head, so I was like, why not, sure that was where my mind went jumping into this.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_19]: I have no idea what's going on.
• 53:16
  [SPEAKER_19]: I haven't read the other issues, so I'm totally lost.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: Mike is not on the show often, but many of our cast here have met Mike in person who does travel with me to cons you are lovely.
• 53:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a wonderful to have you here.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then the theme for this month, we're jumping into gimmick villains.
• 53:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of gimmick villains in this episode, but we're kind of revolving around rampage here.
• 53:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: And we talked about this last time, but the narrator is giving so much sympathy to this shitty little baby man who's doing the shitiest things.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I lost my company.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't go to jail.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: All they did was try to rob a bank and kill a cop.
• 53:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: Why won't you leave me alone?
• 53:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's so frustrating.
• 53:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: I feel thank you for jumping in his rampage today.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you have any thoughts on this character or even his design?
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Is very ketchup and mustard, exoskeleton suit?
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, when they made a comment about his suit could rival Iron Man, I was like, could it, though?
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: All you got to do is hit one or two points and it falls apart.
• 54:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: It looks terrible and I keep I kept scrolling through images to be like, oh, maybe someone did a really cool update for him at some point.
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: And no, pretty much not.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's always just kind of looked bad.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: If you want to learn the whole history of Stuart Clark, stay tuned for the trial at the end of the month where we will be celebrating him with one of my all-time favorite villains, the Stilt Man who I look very much.
• 54:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: I have both of these characters on my wall for those of you that have seen my comic wall rampage and Stilt Man are both up there.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_18]: So first I had to google when you said catch up and mustard.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_18]: I had to google rampage.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: This cost was fucking stupid.
• 54:43
  [SPEAKER_18]: And as like the queen of like cosplaying zealous stupid characters, this costume is stupid.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: I recommend everybody googling that.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_18]: I just have to say everybody.
• 54:57
  [SPEAKER_18]: We do a great job.
• 54:58
  [SPEAKER_18]: This is fun.
• 54:59
  [SPEAKER_18]: This, this is great.
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_18]: Everyone's wonderful.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_18]: I love, I love that people try stupid, funny accents and everybody's just here to have a good time.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_18]: So thanks everybody.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's been a really shitty week.
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_18]: So thanks for making it better.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_12]: I have two notes.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_12]: I would like more Russians and more Michaels.
• 55:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: And everyone's Russian is amazing.
• 55:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: None of this were all doing bad accents.
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like they're all top shelf.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, they are.
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: Kevin and Kristi both get local face when they're doing their accent.
• 55:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: They're being a happy.
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_12]: My whole body is like, like, like, like, I have to, like, tighten so many weird muscles to make some of the sounds come out.
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, they can only with the sounds are coming out.
• 55:42
  [SPEAKER_08]: Another call out.
• 55:43
  [SPEAKER_08]: I had two callouts.
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_08]: I really enjoyed a course of newcomer Ryan.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_08]: I really enjoyed your breath.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know you had that any Ryan and you were a good at voice acting, but I didn't know you had that any.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_08]: So you surprised me and I really enjoyed a demand as like kind of sexy solitude dark style.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_08]: Really kind of did something to me.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, so one of the things I love about Darkstar, like she understands that she's a pretty woman and so she'll like flirt but they just like, but please don't fucking touch me.
• 56:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: Like, no, no, I'm not into that.
• 56:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: Thank you so much.
• 56:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Iceman is going to give her a lot of attention real soon.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: And she does not want it.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: She's, she's the new Polaris in his life.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: My crossie, your boy was your sobbing boy was the hard one.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a correct call though.
• 56:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Please don't ever make me do that again.
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: That was just my natural voice.
• 56:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Please, Mr.
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a big cast that carries into the next couple of issues.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: So we have this kind of ongoing storyline with all of the Russians and Rampage and Darkstar and these kind of competing factions in the Soviet Union who are all here on American soil.
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a very, very black widow-centered story.
• 56:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: I love the each of the characters got some big moments in this.
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is where it really starts to feel like a fun team book.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: And we get to build into that next time to be continued this summer on Grey Malkin Lane around July as when we'll release the next batch of script reads.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks for letting me be part of this, as always, I like being multiple characters that was a special treat for me.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Early March, I will be at Emerald City Comic-Con, so if anyone's in the West Coast and go to Emerald City Comic-Con, I'll be there.
• 57:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea what I'm dressing up as because March seems impossibly far away at the moment.
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can find me on Instagram at hammy73 or Michael.ham.cosplay or patreon.com slash Michael Ham.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: posting all kinds of delicious content always.
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a lovely to see you, my friend.
• 57:39
  [SPEAKER_18]: And someone who has followed him for a literal decade, it's still very weird to be honest.
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't say that out loud.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Haven't only been doing it for three years, I'm crazy.
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am 22, Dammit.
• 57:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: I am still 22 years old.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_18]: So hi, Demand Mortini.
• 57:56
  [SPEAKER_18]: You can find me across all social media at Demand a martini DM, a D.A.M.A.R.T.
• 58:01
  [SPEAKER_18]: and I.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_18]: In March, I will be at AwesomeCon.
• 58:06
  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm still waiting at time of recording to hear about what panels that I submitted will be approved, fingers crossed.
• 58:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: My big kind of costume that I'm going to be premiering that weekend.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, the two costumes are going to be premiering that we can
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_18]: We're finally to appease our dear friend Jessica Krauss.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: I will be doing Aphrodite from Zina, which will be a lot of fun.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_18]: And I will be, because Parker Posey is going to be a guest at AwesomeCon.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_18]: I will be Parker Posey as Jennifer Jolie as Gail Weather is from Scream 3.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: So I'm very excited to be doing that.
• 58:43
  [SPEAKER_19]: She will lose her mind.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_19]: That's I hope so.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh my god.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_19]: My name's Michael Anderson.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm not on social media.
• 58:49
  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, you can't find me at any Comic-Cons coming up.
• 58:53
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, but sometimes I post pretty pictures of him on my own Find me go to chads Instagram or whatever, which is also private Don't coach ads Instagram
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Scott, free on most social media Instagram.
• 59:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: What have you early March?
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: I will also be at Austin, Khan running the table for the uncanny experience, which
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_07]: Many of you are familiar with.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: You're not, check it out.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: I will actually be Warren one day, Warren Worthington, and continuing my tradition of doing pathetic, zealist men.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: Mr. Immortal from the Great Lakes of Enders.
• 59:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: When you say continuing your tradition of doing pathetic men, are you talking about your sex life or your cause play?
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_07]: A little bit of calm men, a little bit of calm beach hat.
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello, my name is Sean.
• 59:48
  [SPEAKER_08]: You could find me on a shani havoc on my podcast solving for X, which can be found at solvingforXman.com.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_08]: In March, we will have just finished Agatha all along with our last episode with Aurora Vale bragging about being noticed for her Agatha cosplay.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm Philip Cv, Philip Cv, comic art on Instagram and Philip Cv on Blue Sky.
• 1:00:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: By this point, you can pre-order the X-Men from the Ash's Trade Paperback, which will be out in March collecting a bunch of the issues I did with Alex Pack and Del Riding and a handful of other great artists collecting the infinity comic that happened just after the end of Kerkola.
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Don't forget your briefcase is a book I did for Mad Cave studios and by I think around March you should be able to preorder the trade paper back for that as well And then coming up on April 24th the exquisite corpse tour that tiny onion is doing is stopping at the nerd store in Salt Lake City And I will be hosting the Q&A and panel discussion for that.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: I believe it's April 24th So I think those are some of the things I got going on by this point.
• 1:00:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, yeah, I'm Mike Rossi.
• 1:00:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am on Instagram at billestrader.might.
• 1:00:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what Zinfestl be tabling at.
• 1:01:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have one in February, but I guess that would be a movement point.
• 1:01:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: At this point, but actually, just recently finished volume one of my next graphic memoirs about the cat my partner and I adopted during the pandemic.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I will be doing a little book launch at Silver's Rocket in San Francisco, although I don't
• 1:01:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: have the exact date, probably sometime in March or April, but that will be posted on my Instagram if anyone is interested.
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: You guys can find me on Instagram at our Y-E-O-R-I-O, or weekly on Fridays.
• 1:01:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Find me on Solving for X with Pat the Podcasts that I do with Sean.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: He informed you of everything that we're doing, actually.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm Chrissy Porter.
• 1:01:42
  [SPEAKER_12]: You, I am a writer, cosplayer, producer, and also journalist, and you can find me on Instagram.
• 1:01:50
  [SPEAKER_12]: at Porter Geeksout and Blue Sky at Christy Porter because I am very inconsistent with my social media handles.
• 1:01:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: Hopefully, March with this comes out, I'll be cooking up something with my partner that's really exciting that you should keep an eye out for.
• 1:02:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm Kevin Canyre.
• 1:02:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm barely on social media anymore because it's a terrible thing to do, but if you need to find me, I'm on Instagram.
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Still is K-A-K-I-N-I-R-Y.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: And as a white man, there's no need for me to start my own podcast, but instead my evil plot has been to force myself on to other people's podcasts.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: So besides seeing me often here on Grey Mocking Lane by the time this comes out, hopefully if all things work correctly, I will also be on a sobbing for X episode coming up as well as a subtext man with Chapman Blake and also doing a little bit of some quasarness over on the X factor files.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: But the thing that is really near and dear to my heart is I'm doing a recurring feature with Chad here on Grey Mocking Lane on the Patreon.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: where we follow the path of Kang the Conqueror, and it is a delight.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're not listening to Tamiwami on the Patreon, we're having a fucking great time.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a pretty fun episode.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope you're a joy.
• 1:03:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you everybody for your time and your talents.
• 1:03:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: This world feels so dark right now.
• 1:03:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're recording this in January.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: There was some really awful ice news and country invasion news and public shooting news
• 1:03:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: Creating joyful things in this world I keep saying is like a direct act of defiance.
• 1:03:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's such a battery charge to hang out with anyone on the show at any time and always.
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: But making these script reads happen is just such a bright spot in my life.
• 1:03:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm super grateful for my connection with each of you.
• 1:03:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for your time and ongoing support.
• 1:03:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, uh, the theme is gimmicks this month, so on the main show, we're going to be hitting the worst and weirdest X-Men variants you can ever think of.
• 1:03:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: All of my guests are like, what the fuck did I sign up for?
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: So the next time I'm coming out after this feature, uh, the incredible talents of Rex Ogle and Andrew Wheeler, and we review the one shot from 1988 called The Power Packed Herbs.
• 1:03:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a world of X-Men Elephants.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, you're not ready.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: Follow the show at Graimalk and Underscore Lane on Instagram.
• 1:03:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grimmelken Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 1:04:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: We've been doing themed months on the show lately and today we are doing my academic interview to open up the show for March which is going to be all about gimmicks.
• 1:04:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: In this particular episode, we're going to be leaning into the weird world of parody magazines at Marvel Comics, and some of the weird or journeys that those magazines have taken along the way.
• 1:04:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: I am thrilled to have some experts who were working in the industry during that time, on some of the weirdest books you've ever seen Marvel put together from the late 80s and early 90s.
• 1:04:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, in the main show, we're going to be discussing crazy Marvel journeys this month.
• 1:04:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're opening next week with a review of the Power Pack Edirms, which is that one world where the X-Men are elephants, and we're just going to go non-sensical from there.
• 1:04:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: I am so excited to welcome Glenn Hurdling back to the show, and coming on the show for the first time is the incredible writer and editor Jim Salacrop, who's joining us for the first time.
• 1:04:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: Let me have you both just jump right into the deep end.
• 1:05:01
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to ask you some of the most
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: Jim, this is your first question on Dreamwalk and Lane welcome first of all.
• 1:05:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: Tell us all about writing the adventures of cool aid man.
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was quite a lot of fun.
• 1:05:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the scenes I always wanted to do is that I really never attempted it.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was too cowardly.
• 1:05:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that they'd never go for it.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: is a pool aid man would battle these characters called the thirsty and I wanted the thirsty to all sort of surround cool aid man and just tip him over and have him all spill out and that would be the end of the story and unfortunately the end of cool aid man but I never got to do that.
• 1:05:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: I just was looking through this series.
• 1:05:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: I want to hear about what it was like for you as a professional writer, getting this called.
• 1:05:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a single image that will live in my brain forever now, a cool-aid man who is a glass pitcher full of liquid and ice that never melts.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Is wearing a baseball card?
• 1:05:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or is he Jack?
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's wearing a baseball cap, and he is strapped into the seat of a car with a seat belt, just as the liquid presumably sloshes all around him as he drives around.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Jim, how did you get the call for cool aid man, my friend?
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I sort of specialized in the most offbeat projects Marvel had, not because I was especially enamored of them.
• 1:06:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I suffered from low self esteem for many years at Mighty Marvel and that I truly didn't think I was worthy to work on anything that was as a writer considered canon in the Marvel universe.
• 1:06:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, fortunately,
• 1:06:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of being able to make a living, I didn't have that same fear when regarding licensed characters or commercial characters such as Kool-Aidman, I sort of had a lot of affection for them.
• 1:06:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the real major appeal of working on Kool-Aidman is the stories that we're being drawn by the great Dan de Carlo, you know, one of the greatest archie artists, if not the greatest,
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just a thrill to be able to work with him.
• 1:07:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember Saturday morning cartoon, like commercials, Captain Crunch was always fighting the soggys, like this was a very firmly placed in that world.
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a Comic Con a few years ago where I saw a man in an inflated, cool-aid man suit.
• 1:07:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: So huge just blown up all around him.
• 1:07:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: He could only see through some little holes and he was heading down some stairs.
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I asked him, do you need some help?
• 1:07:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: And he said, oh yeah,
• 1:07:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's how you know that was in the real cool, I'd man.
• 1:07:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I told him if you put it down, I ran that out of the wall or whatever.
• 1:07:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's all right.
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: So let me also welcome Glenn hurtling back to the show.
• 1:07:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now Glenn, I'm here to get some of your finest work on Beavison but head.
• 1:07:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there we go.
• 1:07:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, no, there's a little Beavison but head shirt there.
• 1:08:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: Was this intentional?
• 1:08:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: There he wears that.
• 1:08:04
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, it was actually.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Glenn, tell us about working on VivaSen by head.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_20]: Wow, that's the, I was an editing Nomad at the time and then Tom the Falco brought me into his office and he said, I didn't start to inform you that we're canceling Nomad.
• 1:08:20
  [SPEAKER_20]: I was like, oh crap, what are we gonna do?
• 1:08:22
  [SPEAKER_20]: What am I gonna be editing instead?
• 1:08:24
  [SPEAKER_20]: And he said, well, there's this new property out there, it's called VivaSen, but head.
• 1:08:29
  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm like,
• 1:08:29
  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, and I've seen a couple of the cartoons right now.
• 1:08:32
  [SPEAKER_20]: I was kind of angry at the cartoon because I was like, you mean if I take in my most juvenile thoughts and put them on celluloid that I could be rich too.
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_20]: So I was like, but it, you know, Tom said, well, I couldn't think of anyone better to edit this than you.
• 1:08:47
  [SPEAKER_20]: I was like, oh, thank you Tom, so I brought in one of my co-conspirators from someone I knew all the way back at third grade.
• 1:08:55
  [SPEAKER_20]: My glappy to write this.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: I said, all right, we share the same kind of juvenile humor.
• 1:08:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: Let's put this together.
• 1:09:01
  [SPEAKER_20]: And then as an artist, when I was working as a gyms assistant, we had Rick Parker was editing all of our books.
• 1:09:08
  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, lettering all of our books and Rick would always send these, you know, care packages and he'd always illustrate the envelope with these great cartoons and everything.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_20]: I said, wow, we, we really should use Rick on something more than just lettering.
• 1:09:22
  [SPEAKER_20]: And I mean, so finally when I got the chance, I said, you know, Rick, how would you like to draw a beef isn't but that he didn't know beef isn't but I have what's he.
• 1:09:29
  [SPEAKER_20]: But he said, all right.
• 1:09:31
  [SPEAKER_20]: So he went in there and he started learning how to draw them and did a lot of, you know, Figure it out.
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_20]: We got to the point and Rick was fantastic on it because Rick always put all these little hidden things in the back and in many ways I think the comic was better than the actual cartoon
• 1:09:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, when I worked for Marvel, the weirdest project I ever worked on, I got to write their postage stamp campaign in the voice of Willy Lumpkin, which was a really kind of little dirty.
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: What would you guys consider the most niche or kind of odd job you ever got while working at Marvel?
• 1:10:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: after you.
• 1:10:05
  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I'm going to out gym here.
• 1:10:08
  [SPEAKER_20]: I think that the gyms most odd job and correct me if I'm wrong gym, but gym got to do the Spider-Man toilet paper.
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_20]: Spider-Man Hulk toilet paper.
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_20]: Spider-Man Hulk toilet paper.
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So technically, you know, people didn't like that story.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They knew what they could do with it.
• 1:10:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: That a writing the Spider-Man
• 1:10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good one, Chad.
• 1:10:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe in Glenn could back me up on this and even you too, Chad, because you worked on those Marvel handbooks.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe the Marvel toilet paper story is considered Marvel canon.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's fair.
• 1:10:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's a slightly tangential universe in in in this space is like Marvel coloring books.
• 1:10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Earth 3,422 and a half point six, but one of my favorite things and typing up the script is instead of writing page one I would write sheet one
• 1:11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember writing it, uh, I had a lot of help from my very good friend, the late David Anthony Kraft after we worked on it together.
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: We, we, we, the best ideas we had we had a disregard, but, uh, but we, we managed to come up with a more.
• 1:11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, conventional spider-man in Hulk story, you know, and just a few pages, the artist who I was always thrilled to work with, I was a huge fan of birds, which was Marie Severn.
• 1:11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: She did not want her name on toilet paper for some unknown reason.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now that she's no longer with us, I guess it's okay to reveal that secret.
• 1:11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: But anyone familiar with her art style would have been able to figure that out.
• 1:11:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the credits on the toilet paper, it says, story by me and the art by Mike Higgins, who was the letterer on that particular story.
• 1:12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was really Marie who did it.
• 1:12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she did a wonderful job.
• 1:12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was very much in keeping what the type of stuff I wanted to write at Marvel where it wasn't part of the,
• 1:12:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Maine, you know, line of canon stories.
• 1:12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I wasn't intimidated.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could approach it somewhat fearlessly.
• 1:12:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And but again, we always had it like not do it quite the way I would have loved to do it.
• 1:12:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of these stories, I were done for Saul Brodsky's department.
• 1:12:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: He would sort of be in charge of everything that wasn't the main marvel.
• 1:12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: line of comic books.
• 1:12:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of these things were called custom comics.
• 1:12:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Len was in charge of those at some point later on, you know, and a lot of times when I was writing them the popular Marvel characters were Spider-Man, the Hulk, and Captain America.
• 1:12:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always wanted to treat it like the three studios instead of having to come up with some contrived reason to bring them all together just to start the story.
• 1:13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times it's a three, but just
• 1:13:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: their films would start with the three of them sleeping in bed together, you know, you know, snoring or what happened.
• 1:13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you just accepted.
• 1:13:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't say how did they get together or anything like that?
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it would have been a lot easier to write those stories and would have been fun to have them slapping each other and poking their eyes out.
• 1:13:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: But three, that's the game man in a long-term committed relationship.
• 1:13:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm here for you.
• 1:13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it would have been fun to do at least one like that.
• 1:13:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised we didn't do one like that.
• 1:13:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what's up?
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, Glenn, what's your answer?
• 1:13:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're just project you ever worked on a Marvel.
• 1:13:40
  [SPEAKER_20]: Mine are probably two and one was kind of a lot more humorous when I was in charge of custom publishing.
• 1:13:45
  [SPEAKER_20]: We did a comic book, a custom comic book for...
• 1:13:49
  [SPEAKER_20]: The Marlins, the Florida Marlins, and it was Spider-Man teams up with Billy the Marlin.
• 1:13:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: They're mascot.
• 1:13:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you know that one, chef?
• 1:13:58
  [SPEAKER_20]: I did my homework friends.
• 1:14:02
  [SPEAKER_20]: So yeah, that was, you know, and the big antagonist we had there was Dr. Doom.
• 1:14:07
  [SPEAKER_20]: So, you know, Spider-Man and Billy the Marlin team up against Dr. Doom.
• 1:14:10
  [SPEAKER_20]: And of course, Billy the Marlin had a super soaker.
• 1:14:13
  [SPEAKER_20]: That was his big trademark.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_20]: So, and how did he defeat Dr. Doom?
• 1:14:16
  [SPEAKER_20]: by squirting Dr. Doom and rusting his jaw and my second one was a little bit more it was the illuminator.
• 1:14:26
  [SPEAKER_20]: I wrote the illuminator, the the Christian youtuber here for Marvel comics and that was the reason they got me, they tapped me for that one because I had four years of Catholic school and so there's the wealth can we get to write this and I know the Bible and I guess I'll do it.
• 1:14:41
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, so the aluminum is also a markup room all designed me to it and he said, you know, hey, any promise me is that Glenn, the uminner does not have to be any more Christian than for is north.
• 1:14:53
  [SPEAKER_20]: I said, okay, that I can do I think I can handle that, right?
• 1:14:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it's like we could kind of treat it more from a mythological basis.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_20]: rather than you know a whole religious basis.
• 1:15:02
  [SPEAKER_20]: So I said, okay, I can do that.
• 1:15:04
  [SPEAKER_20]: So but we're working with Thomas Nelson at the time.
• 1:15:07
  [SPEAKER_20]: Thomas Nelson was the Christian publisher and what we're trying to do was get into the Christian bookmark and trying to penetrate that.
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_20]: So we had other titles that were out there like in his steps was one of them and
• 1:15:18
  [SPEAKER_20]: There were a few other, and there was a life of Christ, which I also edited.
• 1:15:22
  [SPEAKER_20]: After the first issue was out, then Thomas Nelson, you know, they came in a little heavier on the second issue.
• 1:15:28
  [SPEAKER_20]: And then the third issue they said, can we have him bow his head and prayer before he uses his powers?
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_20]: And like, well, if something's coming at you, you have to take it, wait a second, wait a second.
• 1:15:38
  [SPEAKER_20]: Let me bow my head and prayer before I use my powers, you know.
• 1:15:41
  [SPEAKER_20]: And then finally, the fourth issue came and they said,
• 1:15:44
  [SPEAKER_20]: We would like to do an issue where, you know, he battles the, uh, the evil of homosexuality.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_20]: And I was like, okay, I'm out.
• 1:15:52
  [SPEAKER_20]: And I think it was a Chris Cooper was the editor at the time.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_20]: And Chris is, you know, and I think a broad question also.
• 1:15:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: And so all these, we were just like, what is this?
• 1:16:02
  [SPEAKER_20]: Or like, nope.
• 1:16:03
  [SPEAKER_20]: And I think we ended our relationship right after the third inch.
• 1:16:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: You guys have some wildly contemporary I want to talk illuminator with you for a whole hour sometime glad like that's a fascinating story You guys have some really parallel moments in your career though as you're talking glad about your stories Jim I could reflect this back to you Tell us about the X-Men at the state fair of Texas, which is like similar to the Billy the Marlin story.
• 1:16:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: I have a
• 1:16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you mean.
• 1:16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why can't the X-Men be at the state fair?
• 1:16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I find nothing odd about that.
• 1:16:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Marvel was doing these comics that were inserted into Sunday newspapers.
• 1:16:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you remember.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: these things.
• 1:16:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were these sort of large size publications that would feature Dale news and people would buy them at newsstands, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason, they thought it would be a cool idea to throw in a comic book.
• 1:17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: For different markets, we would customize the comics so they would tie into something that took place there.
• 1:17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, far more unusual than the
• 1:17:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: the X-Men at the Dallas State Fair, was I think we did one, which was, I think we're the characters, where I came close to that three studios concept, where they had Spider-Man and his amazing friends, literally attend the Nat Cracker Ballet.
• 1:17:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you were sure Iceman was gay yet.
• 1:17:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Remember that time he went to the ballet with Spidey and Firestar?
• 1:17:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: And he was like,
• 1:17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I had the story of the Nutcracker in the comic, and I had, and this is where you chat, sort of came in handy, or at least the Marvel Handbooks did, where I thought, well, I wondered if there's a ballet supervillain, I could have them battle, and I found daddy long legs.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Daddy long legs.
• 1:17:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: That was a underrated black icon, everyone.
• 1:17:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: Go look up daddy long legs.
• 1:17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I think he was created by a Mark Roanwall.
• 1:18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he was, he thought he was too short to be a ballet dancer or something like that.
• 1:18:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: He took some kind of formula, maybe Henry Pym's growth serum or whatever it was.
• 1:18:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then suddenly he became daddy long legs who was way too tall for the ballet at that point.
• 1:18:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: But also the name of a spider.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: try it all tied together daddy long legs is amazing Ramsey Cole is his real name I think that was far more excellent say I knew you were the guy to talk to about this
• 1:18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas the only thing of note regarding the Dallas fair, or whatever, it's Texas State Fair, was I got to create a new mutant character, who I don't think is ever appeared since, Glenn, or U.J., I could correct me if I'm wrong.
• 1:18:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has not.
• 1:18:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, that tells you something about how great the character was.
• 1:19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We should have bought him back in our day.
• 1:19:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was just, no, what was his name?
• 1:19:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: We was actually, we're actually going to be reviewing this comic on my show in April.
• 1:19:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: So a month after this comes out, we're doing some... Oh, there's no need for that chat.
• 1:19:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to have fun at Provis.
• 1:19:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: The character's name is Danny Wiley.
• 1:19:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: His mutant name is Equus.
• 1:19:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was, yeah, okay, yeah.
• 1:19:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that's also that Broadway show that the guy that played Potter was naked in.
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I saw it when David Bowie was naked in there.
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Jim, you also worked on a couple of kind of similar to the illuminator.
• 1:19:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: You worked on like the Inhumanoids and oh, I forgot your other team book.
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it was just in my brain.
• 1:19:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, the visionaries.
• 1:19:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you want to talk about either of those properties?
• 1:19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was very similar.
• 1:19:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it was, I could illuminate you about the vision harvest.
• 1:19:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: The enuminoids was pretty much a straight adaptation of the cartoons theory, which was based on the Hasbro toys.
• 1:20:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I even have some of them, but I won't bring them out right now.
• 1:20:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: But my favorite page, I couldn't believe I was getting paid for this.
• 1:20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted I wanted to do a very faithful adaptation.
• 1:20:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a big war panel page which had, I think, one of the monsters or perhaps one or two of them, just rampaging.
• 1:20:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the dialogue for the page, I like was panel one, RURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
• 1:20:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You get the gist and you know, I get to hand in my voucher to Marvel to go check place and it was quite wonderful and I enjoyed it.
• 1:20:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was quite a few great artists on that one as well.
• 1:20:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: James Bagley, some of my Bagley's work is on that.
• 1:20:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's excellent.
• 1:20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me put it to you this way.
• 1:20:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the guys who worked on it was one of my favorite artists when I was a comic book fan, particularly the DC Comics.
• 1:20:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was
• 1:20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I like worship him.
• 1:21:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, oh my God, what a great, you know, he was like the artist who did the last detective champ of the new look Batman Adam strange.
• 1:21:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just, you know, incredible.
• 1:21:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I was a young teenage fan, I went up to, you know,
• 1:21:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: convention in Canada where Carmine was one of the guests and I was so disillusioned he was on the panel smoking his cigars and saying oh no i i'm to publish here i'm an executive now i'm the i'm in charge of the scene oh more i put my drawing table aside and i was like heartbroken oh you know i'm not gonna see any more of Carmine in fentino artwork i could have never imagined at that point uh
• 1:21:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: many years in the future.
• 1:21:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good all, Carmine and I would be working together where I was his boss.
• 1:21:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: He'd be drawing, you know, the epic adventures of such characters as the Anum and Humanoid.
• 1:21:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a quite the experience, you know.
• 1:21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although I did tell.
• 1:21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was always partial to his detective chimp stories at BC, which he penciled and inked himself.
• 1:22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Glenn will appreciate this.
• 1:22:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Carmine used to be drinking buddies with another artist.
• 1:22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember his name right now.
• 1:22:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Younger guy.
• 1:22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that guy then revealed to me that after that time, I told Carmine how much I admired his detective chimp work.
• 1:22:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He asked that artist.
• 1:22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who knew?
• 1:22:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was coming from an artist who was an older guy who was a confirmed bachelor.
• 1:22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 1:22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, it was a thrill to The weirdest time though was I was his editor on super villain team up.
• 1:22:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's a concept warrior.
• 1:22:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love super villain team up.
• 1:22:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: I love it
• 1:22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for Coolade Man, what was the name of that fish again, Glenn?
• 1:22:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: Billy the Berlin.
• 1:22:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Billy the Marlin.
• 1:22:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he should have been in supervillanteema.
• 1:22:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, Carmine was strong draw these Jack Kirby characters, which, in the scheme of things, was sort of a comic book, Carmine, because there are rumors.
• 1:23:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, tell you whether it's true or not, but such a puzzle in mine had canceled all the curvy comics at DC, even though they were supposedly selling very well.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So who knows?
• 1:23:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is worthy of a much longer conversation as well, but do you want to tell everybody briefly about night cat briefly?
• 1:23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the whole uh...
• 1:23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Never ending saga unto itself, but I could go on and on about anything actually, but specifically, Nightcat.
• 1:23:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: The best thing I could tell you about Nightcat, the most shocking thing from my point of view, maybe not anyone else.
• 1:23:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: is when I got to see the catwoman movie that starred a what's her name, Glenn.
• 1:23:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who's a hooper, Kelly Berry?
• 1:23:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I avoided the black cat, which was a very popular character with the fans, but I thought, she's so derivative of catwoman, you know, that I don't want to have that.
• 1:24:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want, you know, I want to keep, you know, Spider-Man and Spider-Man, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:24:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want, you know, second-rate, third-rate limitations.
• 1:24:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: which brings us back to NYCAT, which again, was so derivative of Chad woman.
• 1:24:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: And that cat only has one appearance, 1991, in NYCAT number one.
• 1:24:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: She's Jacqueline Tavarez, and it does very much feel like the Halle Berry Cat with movie.
• 1:24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, well, in my actual plot, and to be fair, my a lot of times, when I would try to get out of writing certain assignments,
• 1:24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd ask the editor, well, can I have someone help me on the writing?
• 1:24:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And usually I would get a plan and my good friend Barry Dutter to help, you know, he sometimes would do a lion's share of the work.
• 1:24:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was mostly involved, almost like as another editor, although I worked on the
• 1:25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: plot and the villain I came up for for night cat.
• 1:25:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember specifically it's in the plot saying she's a Sharon Stone type character who is involved with creating designer drugs and if you remember the cat woman movie, Sharon Stone was a villain who was involved with creating designer drugs and I'm thinking this is the weirdest thing ever.
• 1:25:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why the hell would the people who
• 1:25:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: have the rights to cat woman, you know, such an incredibly wonderful character, you know, do a movie that's closer to nightcat.
• 1:25:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to make of that.
• 1:25:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Go for nightcat number one.
• 1:25:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's it's it's an exposition on female sexuality in the early 90s.
• 1:25:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a really fun.
• 1:25:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it had a lot of great talent working on it, aside from me, of course, who Joe Jessica did the covers, Dennis Cowen, who I think was recently inducted to the Eisner Hole of Fame, Stan Lee, I think, did the actual script, so it was quite the thing.
• 1:25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is before Stan left us all for Stripper Ella, everyone, which is another hole for you.
• 1:26:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for at night, super hero later at night.
• 1:26:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a number of tangential marble properties that are tricky to track down.
• 1:26:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: One of the ones that I grew up with in high school, the X-Men had a line of comics where they're fighting the brotherhood of evil mutants.
• 1:26:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: And the issues were released with these cheap plastic toys in hearty's kids' meals.
• 1:26:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's another version of this with like X-Men comics that came out with like pizza-hut stuff.
• 1:26:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, both of you, Jim and Glenn have worked on properties like Spider-Man and Charleston Chew or like X-Men sponsored by Stried X.
• 1:26:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: But one of the most delightful ones of all time is Marvel partnering with these snack food combos to give us combo, man.
• 1:26:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: A Glenn, we can tell us about combo, man.
• 1:26:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a good character in the wild.
• 1:26:54
  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, man, it was great.
• 1:26:55
  [SPEAKER_20]: And I still, they actually didn't embroider polo shirt with, with combo, man.
• 1:26:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: I still have that polo shirt.
• 1:27:01
  [SPEAKER_20]: It was really nice quality.
• 1:27:03
  [SPEAKER_20]: combo man embroidered on the left but left rest there and was like it was it was a lot of fun and you know combo They wanted to come up with their own character, but they still wanted to tap into the Marvel universe and so we said well It is combos when combo man would be someone who have a combination of all these different powers And we used all of our you know most popular characters at the time.
• 1:27:24
  [SPEAKER_20]: It was we have a
• 1:27:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: Punisher and human torch and humble man is that like if you took different slices of superheroes and stacked him up on top of each other like they're a pizza So like it runs across it's like Hulk and then Cyclops and then Iron Man and that's just the face and then it's like magneto Punisher Captain America Wolverine and then I don't necessarily know who it is underneath that
• 1:27:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ghost writers in there somewhere.
• 1:27:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: So I grew up watching Pete's Dragon and this is a brief tangent.
• 1:27:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's the song that Nora sings to Pete where they're like describing a dragon and he's like, he has the head of the camel, the ears of a crocodile, the face of a cow, a combo man is that.
• 1:28:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's like the hair of the Hulk, the eyes of Cyclops, but the finger tips only since it's a weird character.
• 1:28:16
  [SPEAKER_20]: What when I one of the very first comic books I ever got and was a DC comic book and I and Jim you might be Let help me out with this, but it was a character took on all the powers of the Justice League and he called himself JLA and I don't know It was the was it met a morpo who took on all the
• 1:28:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: The powers, I'm not really sure if I'm going to give this super adaptoy the super scroll mimic there's characters that have those properties.
• 1:28:43
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, right.
• 1:28:44
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, that's one was, you know, super adaptoy.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_20]: I had all those.
• 1:28:48
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but so combo man, I got Mark Moonwalk.
• 1:28:51
  [SPEAKER_20]: I thought this would be great.
• 1:28:52
  [SPEAKER_20]: He'd be right up his alley.
• 1:28:53
  [SPEAKER_20]: He'd have a fun time writing this one.
• 1:28:55
  [SPEAKER_20]: So I I didn't also do butterfingers.
• 1:28:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: We came up.
• 1:28:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: They had there's own little for a while they had a cart candy called Butterfinger BB's.
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_20]: I remember those, they were gross, but I had Mark and he came up with this character called BB boy.
• 1:29:12
  [SPEAKER_20]: And we had one of four sounds like Mark light a day.
• 1:29:16
  [SPEAKER_20]: So I wanted to make sure that I had him do something and he came in for a did a combo man and he did a bang-up job.
• 1:29:22
  [SPEAKER_20]: It was great.
• 1:29:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Another character worthy of a longer conversation.
• 1:29:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: These are delightful spaces to take.
• 1:29:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now you guys have much more contemporary work and a lot of things you did, but it's fun to just
• 1:29:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to do a little bit of a history lesson for my listeners for a moment, and then I'd like to hear just you guys share some thoughts because you worked on some of these magazines.
• 1:29:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: Marvel has a number of different editorial teams, we, you know, there's the guy at the Hulk office in the guy at the X-Men office, but there's also often divergent lines of comics.
• 1:29:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a publishing company and people always think about just in terms of heroes.
• 1:29:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: But go look up Star Comics or Star Wars or Conan or the new universe.
• 1:29:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: I've befriended a lot of modern comic writers and some of my friends have been working on books like The Planet of the Apes meet the Fantastic Four or Godzilla versus Spider Man.
• 1:30:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: Right, we have this thing where we mix properties and there's a number of those like Star Trek X-Men like that exist out there as well.
• 1:30:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: Beginning with X-Men team titans, which is an all-time favorite and then we have like the JLA Avengers.
• 1:30:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're leaning a little bit into the really obscure ones, but if you read Beavison but head or Barbie comics or Heathcliff or Renin Stimpy, you're gonna find Marvel stuff in there.
• 1:30:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: You're gonna find these characters woven into it, but you also find those characters woven back into the main Marvel universe.
• 1:30:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: For example, Mark Greenwald and his big quasar epic.
• 1:30:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a couple characters running around that look like Renin Stimpy for like several issues in a row.
• 1:30:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: So you can find these kind of odd crossovers in the properties that Marvel is being paid by
• 1:30:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm gonna take you very briefly into the world of Marvel parody magazines.
• 1:30:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: In 1964, Stanley and Company Publisher Martin Goodman started the Mary Marvel Marching Society or the M.M.M.M.S.
• 1:31:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: Marvel fucking loves an acronym.
• 1:31:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an in-house fan club.
• 1:31:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Raiders could join for one dollar.
• 1:31:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: If you sent the dollar in, you could receive a membership kit sent back to you that included a welcome letter, a membership card, a record with Stan Lee's recorded voice on it as well as other members of the bullpid, like a literal record and a record player.
• 1:31:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a scratch pad, a sticker, a pin-back button, and a certificate.
• 1:31:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: A Marvel Secretary, Flow Steinberg, has some comments about what it was like.
• 1:31:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: They would have hundreds of letters coming in, and each letter they had to take down the name of the address of the kid to be added to the publication list, and then also open the envelope to get a single dollar bill out.
• 1:31:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: And by 1967, there were 70,000 annual members of this club, so they're just pulling one dollar out.
• 1:31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't wish I was one.
• 1:31:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: Did you enjoy being part of the Mary Marvel marching society?
• 1:31:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, I did.
• 1:31:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: The club ran until 1969, and then they shifted it to a new club called Marvel Mania International.
• 1:32:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: This one cost $2 to join.
• 1:32:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: The membership still included a membership card, but also a three-foot Captain America poster, a decalsheet, a Hulk decal, new merch catalog, a coupon with Dr. Doom on it.
• 1:32:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: and the first issue of the Marvel Mania magazine and news letter.
• 1:32:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: Contributors to this included people like Mark Ivonnee and Jenny as a Bella, etc.
• 1:32:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the way to remember how to pronounce Mark's last name correctly is the thing that Mark is never far.
• 1:32:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mark is even here.
• 1:32:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Evan Near.
• 1:32:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I didn't know.
• 1:32:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 1:32:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: always willing to have this this publication magazine only lasted for six issues and all of the writers are quoted as saying like they were chronically underpaid it was just not a sustainable business model.
• 1:32:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: Then in 1973 Marvel changed this to Foom magazine, Foom another acronym,
• 1:32:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: the Friends of Old Marvel.
• 1:32:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: And this third club ran until 1976.
• 1:32:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: Jim Stranko was heavily involved in the beginning.
• 1:32:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: And in later issues, Chris Claremont and David Anthony Craft and others are took over.
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a four issue subscription that costs...
• 1:33:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always part of the others, Chad.
• 1:33:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, we're getting to you, I'm friends.
• 1:33:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: A three-dollar subscription for four issues a year, you got the ID card, decals, poster, and you could get stuff like behind the scenes write-ups on characters and early art and the upcoming project announcements.
• 1:33:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: So in issue number 10 of Fum in the early 70s, there's a feature on the new X-Men that would be coming out in giant size X-Men number one later that year.
• 1:33:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: So some super nerds will tell you that the actual first appearance of characters like Storm Knight Crawler and Colossus was in the Fum magazine.
• 1:33:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, if you read old comics on the bull pen bulletin's page, which is worthy of its own conversation another time, there's a little thing at the bottom where it would talk about, like, what kind of fan are you?
• 1:33:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: No ye these, the hallowed ranks of Marvel dumb.
• 1:33:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: These were made up by a fan, and then they started printing them in the magazines.
• 1:33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you not just a fan,
• 1:33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chad.
• 1:33:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who might have created this?
• 1:34:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chad, we'll make up the ranks of Marvel, though.
• 1:34:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: What do you tell us?
• 1:34:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a mark.
• 1:34:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: Kevin here.
• 1:34:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, Mark of it here.
• 1:34:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: We wrote this list together.
• 1:34:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: I would love to interview Mark by the way.
• 1:34:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: So the ranks were our F-O real frantic one, a buyer that least three Marvel Max per month.
• 1:34:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: T-T-B, Titanic True Believer, a divinely inspired no prize winner.
• 1:34:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: Q-N-S, quite enough, Sarah, a fortunate frantic one who's had a letter printed.
• 1:34:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: K-O-F, the keeper of the flame, one who recruits a newcomer to Marvel's Raulacan ranks, PMM, the permanent Marvelite Maximus, anyone possessing all four of the other titles, and the most hollowed, the F-F-F, or Fearless Front Facer, not Finn-Fang-Foom.
• 1:34:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just say what it is, Judd for Fearless Front Facer.
• 1:34:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's an honorary title bestowed for devotion to Marvel above and beyond the Call of Duty.
• 1:34:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: If you got a no prize, which is another conversation that was another special thing.
• 1:34:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: In food number two in 1973, this is fun history.
• 1:34:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Marvel ran a character creation contest, promising the winner would be featured in a Marvel book.
• 1:35:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: Entries included bizarre characters you can find on the Marvel appendix, like Absorb a Man, and a very odd take on a character named Wolverine.
• 1:35:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: The other Wolverine had nothing to do with this guy and was officially created the next year, so not in any way related.
• 1:35:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: But the winner of the contest created a character named Humus Sapiens, who was never featured in a Marvel book until 28 years later by Fabian Niseza in the Thunderbolts.
• 1:35:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: In 1967, Marvel launched Not Brand Ech, a satire book that ran for 13 issues, based off of the old property of like, here's Brand Ech, and here's Not Brand Ech.
• 1:35:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: They would do this in commercials all the time.
• 1:35:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Gene Cole and Marie Severin, Roy Thomas.
• 1:35:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: He was 25 cents, so much more than a standard book, and you'd get a larger book in a result.
• 1:35:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: sheer nonsense.
• 1:35:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's mad magazine style humor, ridiculous blocky art.
• 1:35:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: The mascot of the series is four-bush man who has a cooking pot on his head and this has been a running gag for 50 years now using this character.
• 1:35:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a world full of obnoxious takes on your favorite superheroes and dumb parodies of DC heroes.
• 1:36:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: Ironed man, Dr.
• 1:36:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: Drain, superman, a Batman, but this is not your Batman.
• 1:36:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a man who wields a bat but also is dressed like Batman.
• 1:36:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: A scared devil who has his own supporting cast including Hockey Nelson and Karen Rage, one of the most offensive and hilarious takes is Shrew Storm the inevitable girl, which we've got Lone Wolfie and Chris, which is a Chris Claremont Wolverine, but Lone Wolf and Cub thing, the silver burper, and then Magnito, which is Magnito, like Eatsignito in the 60s, fights the AX men, including Iceyman, Angelface, Marble Girl,
• 1:36:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Marvel also produced spoof another parody book from 70 to 73 and then Marvel launched their own magazine their own version of mad in 1973 and this book was called crazy which was named after an atlas comic that ran for seven issues in the 1950s but it was also a satire book.
• 1:37:01
  [SPEAKER_11]: But before that, in the 1940s, there was like a Mary Melody's Looney Tunes style book called Crazy Comics, both with a K, the head characters like Ziggy Pig and Silly Seal.
• 1:37:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: This new book in 73, The Crazy Magazine was also parody.
• 1:37:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh, oh, oh, Judge, uh, Crazy, uh, Ziggy Pig and Silly Seal.
• 1:37:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I didn't write that down.
• 1:37:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: Al Jaffee!
• 1:37:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: Hmm, sure, classic classic artist Al Jaffee, who wrote a lot of, worked on a lot of cartoons as well, if I'm remembering correctly.
• 1:37:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: He went on to fame at Mad Magazine as doing the Mad Foldin and the Mad Snappy answers to stupid questions.
• 1:37:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: So just like Mad Magazine had Alfred E. Newman, this book launched characters like The Teen Hulk, The Nebysh, Abnoxio The Clown, and Dirk McGurk.
• 1:37:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then there's also these old photo collages of like Marvel writers and editors featuring some people who might be in this room.
• 1:37:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: You'd get photos and like word balloons arranged in like little silly storytelling.
• 1:37:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Finally, in Marvel published from 1983 to 1994, a publication called Marvel Age that ran for 140 issues.
• 1:38:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like bullpen bulletins except expanded to magazine size.
• 1:38:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is where Fred Hembeck starts his regular feature.
• 1:38:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a lot of stuff in these books that's really wild and really funny, and sometimes just don't write offensive, but you have to view it from the lens of the time, which makes it a lot more funny.
• 1:38:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: want to cover.
• 1:38:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: In 1988, Marvel also launched a book called What The, which ran for around 25 issues.
• 1:38:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: The Marvel lag of Merth and Mayhem.
• 1:38:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: It ran until 1993 again, more parodies, tons of satire.
• 1:38:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: Issue 25 is an all mutant issue.
• 1:38:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: So you guys can go look that up if you want a very specific one.
• 1:38:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: But we get groups like the ex-persons and the new pubesons, the fantastical four.
• 1:38:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: Wolverine has a couple of like three different parodies in this book.
• 1:38:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: One is woof.
• 1:38:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: are a meme, and he has Swiss army claws.
• 1:38:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's Wolver Weenie, and then there's also Wolverina, which is the first girl Wolverine before we get lower a kidney later.
• 1:38:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: We get off awful flight, the good night, the new warriors, instead of warriors, and the X-Men include members like Brog, Shylock, Razzler, and instead of long shot, we get rim shot, which is just a wild choice.
• 1:39:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: We also get feature characters like milk and cookies through this.
• 1:39:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: The book is hilarious.
• 1:39:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: Just go look at the cover of the front one.
• 1:39:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a front at a front page at a certain point where someone named Jim Salacrop comes on board and he introduces himself to readers using the following quote I am the reincarnation of the Aztec god of Dung beetles.
• 1:39:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: I sleep in an oil drum full of rusty nails I shake up the soda cans and the cafeterias of nursing homes.
• 1:39:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: I get out dead geckos and rubix cube boxes on Halloween
• 1:39:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if this was an essay that you had written, I'd have to edit so much of it.
• 1:39:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not funny.
• 1:39:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You've left out SNAPFOO.
• 1:39:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: SNAPFOO?
• 1:39:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You familiar with SNAPFOO?
• 1:39:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where Irving Formers first appeared.
• 1:39:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was recently reprinted by that publisher fan.
• 1:40:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: Jim's frozen again.
• 1:40:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: So Irving for Bush who's the four-bush man, Marvel had some other parody magazines, snafu.
• 1:40:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: He also, readers may not know this, but like the character Willy Lumpkin in Fantastic Four was originally from a comic strip that Stanley produced another place, so he brought in some of his favorites into the ongoing narrative of the Marvel universe.
• 1:40:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:40:25
  [SPEAKER_20]: I remember, uh, I wrote the entry about Willy.
• 1:40:29
  [SPEAKER_20]: And the Marvel Handbook because I also contributed to it was a Jim Pussford once I Glenn go ahead and finish.
• 1:40:38
  [SPEAKER_20]: So Willie Lumpkin was I wrote his entry in the Marvel Universe because I actually contributed
• 1:40:44
  [SPEAKER_20]: a good deal with history, I think.
• 1:40:46
  [SPEAKER_20]: I actually pulled it in.
• 1:40:47
  [SPEAKER_20]: I did the in Marvel Comics presents.
• 1:40:49
  [SPEAKER_20]: I did a Christmas story starring Willie Lumpkin and what I had there was I wanted to have someone where I had the story in mind where I wanted to have a character who did not deserve to get taken by the spirits, but there's some snafu that happens and this character
• 1:41:07
  [SPEAKER_20]: to be taken by spirits, gets taken back in time.
• 1:41:10
  [SPEAKER_20]: I had the story, and I remember Scott Labdell was in our office at the time, I'm in Jim's office at the time, and I told him I had the story, and he goes, oh, you mean you weren't like, and we're the spirits, take Jay Jonah James, and I said, no, Jay Jonah James would be the character to do this for no.
• 1:41:24
  [SPEAKER_20]: I just need someone who just would not be taken, and then that's when Scott said, oh, like Willy Lumpkin, I was like, yes, Willy Lumpkin would be,
• 1:41:32
  [SPEAKER_20]: Awesome for this.
• 1:41:33
  [SPEAKER_20]: So I wrote the story, eight page story where Willy Lumpkin could take it back in time.
• 1:41:38
  [SPEAKER_20]: When he's in the past, it's actually when during those cartoons, those little comic strips that stand it.
• 1:41:45
  [SPEAKER_20]: When Willy was, you know, just the male person back in, I think it was, I forget the name of the town, but I set it in Illinois somewhere, but um, uh, and uh, yeah, we had a blast with that head.
• 1:41:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: He took back into Christmas that he lost his girlfriend one time,
• 1:42:02
  [SPEAKER_20]: then they brought him to the present where things are going on and they thought Willie was going seen I'll because he kept saying how he knew that he knew the fantastic for and none of his family believed that and as it for so they thought he was you know having dementia and then in the future he's delivering the mail and his his fate is lock jaw comes and he has a hard attack and dies I love my mom's good he's my favorite
• 1:42:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: to reprint those in Marvel Age by as part of a stand soap box.
• 1:42:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember Dan de Carlo telling me because he would send us his original artwork to, you know, reprint the strips from and he said, I never in a million years thought I'd ever get more money from my Willie Lumpkins Trumpson.
• 1:42:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: and because we paid him for that.
• 1:42:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And my proudest achievement with Willie, and sure Glenn remembers, we put him in Weber Spider-Man as Aunt May's new love interest.
• 1:43:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Which is just an excellent choice.
• 1:43:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: And Jim, Jim earlier was referencing a one issue from the mid-1950s called Snaffood.
• 1:43:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: Just look at the cover of this book.
• 1:43:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's wild.
• 1:43:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's red in the back.
• 1:43:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I've had another comic called Wild as well.
• 1:43:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the other story.
• 1:43:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a group of soldiers in Russia with like, there's a red print background, a backdrop in behind them that's written in Russian and then underneath it says by US savings bonds.
• 1:43:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: You get the hammer and sickle.
• 1:43:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: The cover at advertises a real French postcard.
• 1:43:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: But at the very top, there's this little caricature of just this dopey-looking nerdy guy and it says underneath Irving Forbush, man or myth, which is the technical first appearance of Forbush, man.
• 1:43:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's very important.
• 1:43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you looked at the contents page, it says a snafu was founded by Irving Forbush.
• 1:43:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't remember that.
• 1:43:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it then stand at another forbush relative.
• 1:43:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it said, Lost it by whoever that was Melvin forbush or whatever.
• 1:44:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: I do it didn't do a whole month of like character episodes Unlike Irving Forbush and Willy Lumpkin.
• 1:44:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: These old like
• 1:44:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, forbishman and I kept as the he would be the corner symbol on Marvel Age where like pretty much eight years of when I was editing Marvel Age.
• 1:44:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So forbishman was brought back there.
• 1:44:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things like that you keenly observed it was Marvel's obsession with, you know, having initials for different things.
• 1:44:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so one of the things that tied SNF food to what the is, you know, what SNF food stood for?
• 1:44:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't.
• 1:44:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't.
• 1:44:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, come on.
• 1:44:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a military term.
• 1:44:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you the clean version.
• 1:44:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can spray on my show.
• 1:44:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
• 1:44:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: All, well, okay.
• 1:44:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Situation normal, all fucked up.
• 1:44:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which brings us all the way back to what the, which is like, if you complete that phrase in what WTF stands for, marble has a tradition of this.
• 1:45:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, regarding what I got Italian conversation, I had not that long ago, what
• 1:45:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: the Carl Pots who I have lots of respect for, which will shock Len.
• 1:45:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things that, you know, that happened is one of the many things I wanted to do it, and I still want to do, is I always wanted to edit mad magazine.
• 1:45:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people now think mad is either canceled or entirely reprint the, uh,
• 1:45:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: which is not true.
• 1:45:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's still going.
• 1:45:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it has 20% new material in every issue.
• 1:45:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's still hope, but way back when at Marvel, there was an opening for a new editor of Crazy Magazine.
• 1:45:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at that time, I was editing the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, X-Men, and the Phizealian other titles.
• 1:45:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was what concerned about, you know, my, uh,
• 1:45:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, being able to maintain a living and I was looking for, you know, something that would blast long.
• 1:46:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jim Schuter, who was the editor in chief in the man who was going to decide who would the new crazy editor would be.
• 1:46:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: What is, you know, I asked him, would my future at Marvel depend on whether crazy succeeds or fails?
• 1:46:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, yeah.
• 1:46:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I waited.
• 1:46:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I figured, well, I think I'll be safer sticking with the Avengers fantastic for X-Men, etc.
• 1:46:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he chose Larry Hama to be the crazy editor.
• 1:46:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he had Jim Asley who later became Christopher Priest as his assistant.
• 1:46:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they did some great stuff.
• 1:46:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned in the...
• 1:46:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: teen Hulk, I was particularly fond of a black version of the Flintstones.
• 1:46:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: They did called the Brown Stones, but I found it interesting that the editors of Crazy were two people who would pretty much laugh at anything and both have very distinctive, uh, uproarious laughs.
• 1:46:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, sure enough, when Crazy ultimately, uh, you know, folded, fortunately, you know, as a wise decision,
• 1:47:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, regular comics and other magazines, et cetera, et cetera, which, you know, I was the only one say at that time, say, hey, wait a minute, but, you know, they're there went my opportunity.
• 1:47:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So then when another opportunity came up to do a humor comic because not brand hack was really one of my favorite Marvel comics of all time, I really wanted to do it, but so did Carl Pots.
• 1:47:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so using the wisdom of Solomon, they decided, okay, Jim, you could edit four issues and Carl you could edit four issues and when I spoke to Carl recently, I said, I got to admit, you know, like your issues really turned out incredibly well and I'm almost jealous of it, you know, I had this opportunity and I wish I I put it done better.
• 1:48:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: not that I'm putting down what we did, but I thought, and Carl confessed to me that he thought, you know, oh, this is weird.
• 1:48:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you and I, Glenn and I were a funnier guy, and then, you know, Carl's a pretty serious guy, so it's ironic that his issues were really good.
• 1:48:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did a great job, and I think a lot of it was, um,
• 1:48:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because Glenn and I already had a full flight with all the Spider-Man stuff we were doing that I really don't think I gave as much time and attention to what the has I wish I did And Carl is certainly like a workaholic where he would you know do you know put in long hours and
• 1:48:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: focus, you know, intently on what he was doing and brought in some incredible talent, like, uh, uh, I really, uh, can't believe I didn't think of some of them myself, uh, because one of my, as I said earlier, one of my favorite artists was Marie Severin, who was no longer available at that time, and other one was Tom Sutton, two of the best artists from not brand-act, but probably Tom would have been available.
• 1:49:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why he didn't track him down.
• 1:49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did the Alice Cooper comic for me back in the day.
• 1:49:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I slept myself for that mistake.
• 1:49:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Carl, he brought in folks like John Severn, who worked on crack magazine for forever.
• 1:49:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so my hats off to Carl, who I think did a good job.
• 1:49:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think there were some little nuggets in there and what that turned out pretty well.
• 1:49:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I particularly enjoyed the Craven's last hunting take off that the Lenin Eye sort of cooked up at the last minute when when Alex Saviour came in expecting his next web a spider-man plot and it wasn't ready yet so Lenin Eye cooks something up to keep Alex busy and it turned out pretty well I thought
• 1:49:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: I was a lot of fun.
• 1:49:57
  [SPEAKER_20]: I really enjoy working on that one and I loved having Alex do that and Alex did the likenesses of you and me in our animal forms.
• 1:50:05
  [SPEAKER_20]: Jim Salamander and Hen Birdwing.
• 1:50:08
  [SPEAKER_20]: I know Alex Saviack.
• 1:50:09
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes.
• 1:50:11
  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, and then, and he gave me that cover.
• 1:50:13
  [SPEAKER_20]: Mike's that gave me that cover and I cherish it.
• 1:50:15
  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, it's, uh, wonderful.
• 1:50:17
  [SPEAKER_20]: And it was so, so well done.
• 1:50:19
  [SPEAKER_20]: Love it, right?
• 1:50:20
  [SPEAKER_20]: And you did, and you did the what the logo in the Spider-Man.
• 1:50:23
  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, everything was perfect.
• 1:50:25
  [SPEAKER_20]: So don't sell yourself shorts, Jim.
• 1:50:27
  [SPEAKER_20]: Those are some great issues.
• 1:50:28
  [SPEAKER_20]: Wasn't start seeing your issue, too?
• 1:50:30
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
• 1:50:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: We only did, like, four issues.
• 1:50:33
  [SPEAKER_20]: Was it even that many, or did we do, too?
• 1:50:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that was a new original mad comment.
• 1:50:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if I wish, did Carl do most of them, I think?
• 1:50:42
  [SPEAKER_20]: That was four and we each did two, but I'm not sure.
• 1:50:44
  [SPEAKER_20]: Of these humor issues, the ones that were, well, I mean, you know, MBB isn't, but I just can't, that experience was just amazing.
• 1:50:51
  [SPEAKER_20]: The entire, it was fun because we kept trying to get away with things with, with MTV that kept, you know, coming down on other, so there was a time there where, be this couldn't say the word fire because, you know, people were setting things on fire and be the system.
• 1:51:08
  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, fire fires all they had to stop saying so then we had an issue where someone gets fired and so be viscos Fire fired and they're like, no, you can't say that we told you you can't say that.
• 1:51:18
  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm like, no, this is fired Not fun So yeah, we we had a blast working on that just watching all the things that Rick was trying to hide in those issues and everything Some of the things like
• 1:51:28
  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, Rick, I don't know if you should be doing that one, you know, it was a we got in trouble because he put the comics code in the corner box.
• 1:51:36
  [SPEAKER_20]: He put it in a graveyard because we weren't approved by the comics code and my cops and it was a DP of publishing at the time.
• 1:51:43
  [SPEAKER_20]: He called me directly.
• 1:51:44
  [SPEAKER_20]: I think I was at home.
• 1:51:46
  [SPEAKER_20]: I wasn't even in work that day.
• 1:51:47
  [SPEAKER_20]: He had to call me when what's this with the comics code.
• 1:51:50
  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, a tombstone.
• 1:51:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: It is such a joy to just capture the nostalgia of childhood and like these properties and like also realize that there was a business behind all of it.
• 1:52:01
  [SPEAKER_11]: I really enjoy talking about this era of books with people like you guys and the circle that you're in because everybody seems fond of each other.
• 1:52:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody seems like I know there was a lot editorial going on, but like all these years later, the fact that you all remain such good friends And being a part of that like orbit even peripherally has been just such a joy for me So what a what a wonderful time revisiting these memories with you I want to go watch a bunch of bad you know Saturday morning cartoons on YouTube now and think oh, yeah No, I don't want to see these anymore.
• 1:52:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: They're worse than I remember
• 1:52:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to.
• 1:52:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Glenn.
• 1:52:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Glenn.
• 1:52:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I actually, uh, intensely hate Glenn.
• 1:52:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a horrible person.
• 1:52:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:52:41
  [SPEAKER_20]: We have this.
• 1:52:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
• 1:52:42
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
• 1:52:43
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
• 1:52:43
  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know what I'm doing on the podcast with him.
• 1:52:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was that one time Glenn likes to write it off as that he's a practical joker, but he was really out to the kill me so he could get my job and one example was I had gone
• 1:53:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: to a meeting or the men's room who knows what and he took that opportunity to hide under my desk and then when I came back and I'm sitting at my desk, you know, doing my work and suddenly from under my desk he grabs my ankle.
• 1:53:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know he was there.
• 1:53:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I nearly went through the ceiling I was so frightened.
• 1:53:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fortunately, my heart is pretty strong and I didn't die it, but that didn't stop him.
• 1:53:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, you know, I guess our relationship was more like he was Wiley, Coyote, and I was the roadrunner, somehow managing to escape over and over again.
• 1:53:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Despite all his horrendous attempts to you know, blatantly kill me.
• 1:53:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, he gave up.
• 1:53:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, if I was to sum up my single favorite thing from these Marvel parody magazines, Kelly Corvacy, who I've befriended through the show as well, wrote a couple of like X-Men Christmas Carol parody pages, which are just like the lyrics to classic Christmas songs.
• 1:54:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: I, if you guys know the Jean Gray nonsense, you know, Jean Gray has the Phoenix Force and then the Madeline prior clone.
• 1:54:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: One of Kelly Quarbase's songs printed in a one page is to the tune of we three kings the the song, but it's we three jeans and they're all just singing
• 1:54:19
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's really fun to delve into just the humor and the slapstick crazy of it all.
• 1:54:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: What a joy to visit some of these memories with you both.
• 1:54:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: I hope it's been fun for you both as well.
• 1:54:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, stay tuned on the show.
• 1:54:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to be talking all about parody and gimmick, resulting in the end of the month everyone, if you stay tuned for academic trialthy and of March.
• 1:54:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to be talking about the character's rampage and stilt man with a certain amount of seriousness.
• 1:54:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm actually a big stilt man fan, believe it or not, but a crazy character.
• 1:54:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Such a joy to visit this with you both.
• 1:54:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: Where could people find you online and is there anything you want to plug regarding work that you're doing or things that you're active in these days?
• 1:54:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: I know you've been updating us on your app the last few times how are things going?
• 1:54:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, I wish that I could say I'd better news for you right now.
• 1:54:58
  [SPEAKER_20]: We try to have an integration with Clover or the POS system and they decided to drop us for reasons I won't go into now, but we're trying to now integrate with another app.
• 1:55:09
  [SPEAKER_20]: And hopefully, by the next time you have me on, chat, I'll have some better news for you on that.
• 1:55:13
  [SPEAKER_20]: Excellent.
• 1:55:14
  [SPEAKER_20]: I look forward to it.
• 1:55:15
  [SPEAKER_20]: And where can people find you anything you want to plug my friend?
• 1:55:17
  [SPEAKER_20]: Just the only thing that I'm on a plug is the app when it comes out.
• 1:55:20
  [SPEAKER_20]: But right now, I'm a professor at Montclair State University and my business communications.
• 1:55:26
  [SPEAKER_20]: They do have a graphic novel class there.
• 1:55:28
  [SPEAKER_20]: And I'm doing some guests speaking at that.
• 1:55:30
  [SPEAKER_20]: So right now, I'm just just look up Glenn Hurdling on the only Glenn Hurdling in the world.
• 1:55:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: Glenn also got a, this is just a one panel, one time in a comic book.
• 1:55:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: Your dog got the powers of Captain Universe and saved the world one time.
• 1:55:45
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, I actually was talking, it was Scott McDaniel's birthday, the day I called them up and everything and I was following you off.
• 1:55:51
  [SPEAKER_20]: I have kind of sold some of my original artwork, but I told them the one page I will never sell is the comic book where I actually proposed to my wife and he drew that page and it's framed up in our head.
• 1:56:03
  [SPEAKER_20]: That would be great.
• 1:56:05
  [SPEAKER_20]: And where can people find you anything you'd like to plug?
• 1:56:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not going to tell people where they could find me.
• 1:56:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's, we're in a very dangerous world these days.
• 1:56:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess the safe place where they could see me is Facebook.
• 1:56:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although I haven't posted anything in a while, but I might get back to doing that.
• 1:56:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there's two projects I would like to plug in.
• 1:56:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a third one, I'd like to mention all three of which I have nothing to do with.
• 1:56:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: The first one is, for people who like the garbage-pale chids, my old publisher at Topstcom Exider Freeman has come up with a new concept called Craniac, which is both a card set.
• 1:56:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a comic book series from Titan, and there's an animation in the work.
• 1:56:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to get in early
• 1:57:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: fell kid, look out for cranks, cranks.
• 1:57:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Another one.
• 1:57:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll already forgot the other.
• 1:57:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, the other thing, speaking of Rick Parker later on, when I was a, had a company with Terry Nonti, a called Paper Cuts.
• 1:57:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did sort of a humor, a man type of humor graphic novel series called Paper Cuts Slices that Rick was the artist on, Stefan Petroko was the writer.
• 1:57:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: and there was parodies of, you know, there was Harry Potter stuff like that.
• 1:57:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I came up with was Rick was also doing introductions to our tales from the crypt, kids graphic novel series.
• 1:57:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was looking for, it was more like mad what we ultimately did.
• 1:57:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was like a takeoff of the Wimpy Kid, which I came up with called Dyerie of a sneaky
• 1:57:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's sold incredibly well and got us a cease and the cease from the publishers of the Wimpy Kid Books.
• 1:57:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Rick has recently done an incredible graphic novel called Drafted, which actually is funny in its own way, but it's sort of his serious account of his life in the military.
• 1:58:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know Rick is doing his best to get people to buy that, and it is worth you know you're getting it.
• 1:58:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chad, this is the last thing I'll mention, when you mention the three genes, there's a series out, I don't know who the publisher is, but it's called Babbs, and it's written by Garth Ennis, who's who's done lots of funny stuff, and Babbs is sort of a red sonja takeoff, and in the first issue of the second Babbs series, there's a song which you'd be like parody songs.
• 1:58:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if
• 1:58:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's sort of like based on Red Sonia's weird mating habits.
• 1:58:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I, Glenn, you could correct me.
• 1:58:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe a little Red Sonia, you know, we know man unless he bested her in battle.
• 1:58:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 1:59:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think Babs and another friend are in a bar.
• 1:59:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: They sing a song that I may be getting the title on, but it's like, it's more or less there.
• 1:59:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're saying they think,
• 1:59:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: do me like son.
• 1:59:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say no more.
• 1:59:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you'll like that.
• 1:59:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can find the fabs number one new series.
• 1:59:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead and look at check it out.
• 1:59:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Garth Anderson.
• 1:59:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:59:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: I love Garth.
• 1:59:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
• 1:59:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: What a genuine joy to have you both on.
• 1:59:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for this trip back to the 80s and 90s with me.
• 1:59:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: I had such a delightful time.
• 1:59:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't wait to chat again.
• 1:59:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 1:59:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: The world is a crazy place.
• 1:59:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: Please take care of yourself right now We're recording this at the start of February Who knows what has happened between now and March, but at least stay safe and continue to live joyfully as much as you can And go uh go I don't know we started with cool aid man We jumped to the illuminator.
• 1:59:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: We went to strip a rally and we Like what what a journey today.
• 1:59:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had a great time I want to see a team with all those characters
• 1:59:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, everyone.
• 1:59:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for listening.
• 1:59:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, oh, by the way, there's an alph comic that has some truly wild X-Men parody stuff in it as well There were so many places we could have gone today, but okay, yeah, just random thoughts.
• 2:00:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, everybody We'll see you back here next week on the grandma can lane show
• 2:00:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: Inside Germany, the Nazi regime didn't present concentration camps as secret extermination sites at first.
• 2:00:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: They were openly framed as protective custody camps, meant to restore order and discipline to a nation supposedly threatened by criminals, communists, and degenerates.
• 2:00:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: The first permanent camp, DACO, was opened in March 1933, directly after Hitler's election.
• 2:00:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: So this had been in the plans already.
• 2:00:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: and it was publicly described as a reeducation center for political enemies of the state.
• 2:00:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: Newspapers reported that dangerous radicals were being sent there to be taught hard work, obedience, and respect for German values.
• 2:00:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: But the message was simple, the camps weren't about cruelty, they were about safety and national renewal.
• 2:00:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: This narrative was carefully reinforced by propaganda overseen by Heinrich Kimler, who invited journalists
• 2:00:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: local officials and foreign observers to staged tours.
• 2:01:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Prisoners were forced to appear healthy and orderly barracks were cleaned up, and brutality was hidden just long enough for visitors to leave.
• 2:01:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Official photos showed men working in meat rows, learning trades, or marching calmly under guard.
• 2:01:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: Within Germany, many citizens understood that DACA would similar camps were harsh and frightening, but many believed they were holding criminals or political extremists who, quote, deserved punishment.
• 2:01:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: And thus it's for the greater good.
• 2:01:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Fear did much of the work for the regime.
• 2:01:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: People learned quickly that speaking out could land behind those same barbed wires.
• 2:01:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is where we get into the thousands of stories of people turning a blind eye while their neighbors are being taken out of their homes.
• 2:01:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the rough era of the war.
• 2:01:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: As the 1930s went on rumor spread, families knew when relatives vanished, towns, near camps could hear gunshots, sea smoke, and watch emaciated prisoners transported through train stations.
• 2:01:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yet the propaganda remained consistent.
• 2:01:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: These were labor camps, not killing centers.
• 2:01:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Even when Jews, Roma, gay men, trans people, and others, and the disabled were added to the prisoner population.
• 2:02:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: The public explanation was that they were so social threats being isolated for the good of the nation.
• 2:02:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: The true scale of murder wasn't widely known, but the reality of cruelty wasn't exactly hidden either.
• 2:02:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: There came a point where people had to understand what was happening.
• 2:02:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: space of half knowledge, fear, and deliberate denial.
• 2:02:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: When Allied forces liberated the camps in 1945 and forced German civilians to walk through the bodies, the mass graves, the crematorium, shock mixed with something closer to recognition.
• 2:02:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Many claimed they had never known, others admitted they had heard things but couldn't imagine it was that bad.
• 2:02:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: post war investigations showed that while extermination details were often concealed the existence of these camps and the deaths was broadly understood.
• 2:02:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: The propaganda had not erased reality and it reframed it just enough for people to live beside it.
• 2:02:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now we're going to jump over to the red skull number four.
• 2:02:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: This is from the 2011 series red skull incarnate.
• 2:02:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: Each issue stand alone but it's a brilliant story by Greg Pack told about the life of Johann Schmidt growing up
• 2:03:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: Promotion for the Red Skull operates independently as an equivalent to the SS, as recognition for extraordinary service now equal in ranked to Him, and it's written in German, so I had to translate that.
• 2:03:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: We open in Normburg in September 1933, a group of brown shirts
• 2:03:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: sharpened the long knives on the pavement, let the knives stab into the juice body's blood must flow as thick as hammering hail, smear a turd of the freedom on the freedom of this republic of juice again translated.
• 2:03:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yohan Schmidt in the crowd is wearing a swastika, and refuses to sing.
• 2:03:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: He gets yelled at and asks, why sing about knives when they won't even let us carry them?
• 2:03:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: He finds himself anxious to be a soldier, but his commander after hitting him explains that while drinking, that he'll get a chance to kill communists and break the limbs of Jews just like he has.
• 2:03:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: He'll get to burn books too, but they have to wait for Ernst Rom their leader to guide them to power.
• 2:04:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: If you remember, Ernst Rom, he's the gay best friend of Hitler, who Hitler had killed in order to achieve greater power.
• 2:04:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: So the Red School takes a knife and he walks up to some soldiers.
• 2:04:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: He wants to join the Nazi army.
• 2:04:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: They make fun of him.
• 2:04:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: They tell him to grow or foot or two.
• 2:04:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then they give him a gun and tell him to prove himself by killing some Jews.
• 2:04:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: He aims the gun at an innocent shopkeeper and his kid and pulls the trigger about the gun isn't loaded.
• 2:04:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Johannes Furious when they laugh at him.
• 2:04:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: He attacks them in with the butt of his gun and they beat the shit out of him in return.
• 2:04:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: Later, that same shopkeeper looks on Johann with pity, and he is more furious than ever.
• 2:04:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Three months later, Dieter Lee Lemon, if you remember from Red Skull's youth, is put into doc out as a communist.
• 2:04:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's badly beaten, it's winter, Johann seeks him out, and they fight.
• 2:04:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: Dieter has been tortured, Roland Johann removes his shirt and shows the whip scars on his own back.
• 2:04:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: Johann suggests they work together to kill Hitler himself, which will take us into the next issue.
• 2:04:56
  [SPEAKER_11]: After those really intense summaries, let me welcome my dear friend Terry Coward out of this show incredible Marvel writer and editor Terry Hello, are you a red skull fan, my friend?
• 2:05:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, that's a loaded question.
• 2:05:08
  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm definitely a fan of your German accent.
• 2:05:11
  [SPEAKER_14]: That was true.
• 2:05:12
  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you very much.
• 2:05:13
  [SPEAKER_14]: I think that was very impressive.
• 2:05:15
  [SPEAKER_14]: I have, in my memory, I have one experience of writing the red skull.
• 2:05:20
  [SPEAKER_14]: It was when Bob Harris and I were writing Avengers together and we did a red skull or a fan is a weird word in this case, but he's an interesting character because his motivations are clear, which is something you really want.
• 2:05:35
  [SPEAKER_14]: You know how to write a character who knows who they
• 2:05:41
  [SPEAKER_14]: this issue.
• 2:05:41
  [SPEAKER_14]: I only read this one issue.
• 2:05:43
  [SPEAKER_14]: I did not read the previous one of the ones afterwards to be very interesting, but I wanted more.
• 2:05:49
  [SPEAKER_14]: It was really just a chapter in a story which I understand was the intent.
• 2:05:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I legit, I legit sent Terry only issue four of this five else you limit.
• 2:05:58
  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
• 2:05:59
  [SPEAKER_14]: And so I, you know, I'm old school and I come from wanting a full story in every issue, even if it is a chapter of a bigger longer story.
• 2:06:10
  [SPEAKER_14]: So I didn't feel like got that.
• 2:06:11
  [SPEAKER_14]: It was interesting to me.
• 2:06:13
  [SPEAKER_14]: It was interesting that Greg Pack managed to make the red skull sympathetic, which would be a challenge that I would be hesitant to take on.
• 2:06:23
  [SPEAKER_14]: I wasn't
• 2:06:24
  [SPEAKER_14]: particularly clear on why his friend Dieter was released because I don't remember anything like that from history.
• 2:06:32
  [SPEAKER_14]: And by the way, as a little aside, I visited Doc Out in my early to mid 20s.
• 2:06:39
  [SPEAKER_14]: And I count that as one of the most visceral experiences in my life.
• 2:06:43
  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, I was there with a cousin and a friend.
• 2:06:46
  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, we were the young and carefree and we were sort of traveling around Europe.
• 2:06:50
  [SPEAKER_14]: And we were having a great time and laughing and went to visit that and we didn't laugh for a couple of days after that.
• 2:06:57
  [SPEAKER_14]: You could feel it literally feel the oppression when you walk through that place.
• 2:07:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think the only real-life parallel I have for that experience is I spent a full day at the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. and I went for like the entire next day afterward.
• 2:07:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not the same intense that I imagined but it really affected me.
• 2:07:17
  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
• 2:07:17
  [SPEAKER_14]: It was, you know, you could almost feel the ghosts at Doc Al, and what impressed me the most was it was no attempt to hide the horrors that it sort of happened there.
• 2:07:28
  [SPEAKER_14]: There really was not.
• 2:07:29
  [SPEAKER_14]: There were pictures up when you walk into the barracks pictures up, you know,
• 2:07:35
  [SPEAKER_14]: hundreds of people sleeping in a space that should have held a dozen people.
• 2:07:39
  [SPEAKER_14]: And the emaciated people and all that.
• 2:07:42
  [SPEAKER_14]: And that was heartening in its way that there was no attempt to diminish what had happened there.
• 2:07:49
  [SPEAKER_14]: There was accountability and ownership taken.
• 2:07:53
  [SPEAKER_14]: which you know is half the route to correcting something like that.
• 2:07:57
  [SPEAKER_14]: Certainly what you described in the beginning about how the concentration camps were presented to the public rings in awfully familiar bell these days.
• 2:08:07
  [SPEAKER_14]: It all
• 2:08:08
  [SPEAKER_14]: Also, what stood out to me was if they were hiding all that and setting up visits from the press, et cetera, where they were hiding the atrocities going on and making it look very presentable like a work camp.
• 2:08:21
  [SPEAKER_14]: That means they knew what they were doing was wrong.
• 2:08:24
  [SPEAKER_14]: That means they knew that.
• 2:08:26
  [SPEAKER_14]: They knew this was not something that the public wanted.
• 2:08:29
  [SPEAKER_14]: It was just what these very, very bio people wanted.
• 2:08:32
  [SPEAKER_14]: And I suspect we're living a version of that now.
• 2:08:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: What's your own connection to World War II through your family?
• 2:08:41
  [SPEAKER_14]: My eternal great grandfather served, but that's really it.
• 2:08:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
• 2:08:48
  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
• 2:08:48
  [SPEAKER_14]: And he was gone by the time I would have been able to talk to him about it.
• 2:08:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's interesting when you use the word sympathetic to describe the red skull character.
• 2:08:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't view him with a lot of sympathy, but I suppose what I examine that a little farther I do because he's a child, right?
• 2:09:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like he's a teenager.
• 2:09:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's a shitty teenager.
• 2:09:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's a little shitty awful kid, but like there's a certain point at which a tormented person either gets help or
• 2:09:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: We have the, this is the modern comparison when you have the SS, the brown shirts or the ice.
• 2:09:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's take these shitty kids and give them a weapon and a license and like put laws behind protecting who they are.
• 2:09:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then watch who they become.
• 2:09:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: We do some hurt people hurt people to like, oh, this person's just a monster, you know, which is uncomfortable.
• 2:09:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was also doing this deeper research, Terry.
• 2:09:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: I did a bunch of shows on this last November on my show.
• 2:09:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: Fascism is like the root of all evil and marble comics.
• 2:09:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you go to days of future past and the X-Men are in the cabs with the the M's painted on their faces, you know, like it's these, it's these crazy things to realize how deep that runs.
• 2:09:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: And so, uh, red skull, more evil than, uh, Mufisto, who's the, you know, it was created to be evil, but the red skull chooses it, right?
• 2:09:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like it's, it's this deeply uncomfortable thing to realize.
• 2:10:01
  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I think it was an, in a sense, it's an easy villain, you know, everybody hates Nazis.
• 2:10:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they used to, God.
• 2:10:10
  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I got used to that was just easy to put them forward as the bad guys and you didn't have to explain anything more than their Nazis that's that's good enough reason a punch him in the face still a good enough reason a punch him in the face God at hitting violence, but
• 2:10:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: But sometimes, you know, when we're watching videos of them beat people to death, like, we have to make decisions, I think, which takes me to my final question for you, my friend.
• 2:10:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: How you doing in 2026?
• 2:10:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: These are intense times.
• 2:10:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're recording this every one of the beginning of February.
• 2:10:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: It will probably come out at the end of March, who knows what the fuck has happened between now and then in this crazy world.
• 2:10:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: But how are you doing, Terry?
• 2:10:49
  [SPEAKER_14]: maintaining.
• 2:10:50
  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not easy.
• 2:10:52
  [SPEAKER_14]: I do them squirrel, just like everyone else.
• 2:10:56
  [SPEAKER_14]: And it takes you down dark paths.
• 2:10:58
  [SPEAKER_14]: I happen to live back and forth between New York and New Orleans.
• 2:11:02
  [SPEAKER_14]: The difference in reception about what's going on is fascinating to me.
• 2:11:07
  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I have a local bar in New Orleans.
• 2:11:09
  [SPEAKER_14]: I hang out at and there are people who think everything that's happening is great.
• 2:11:13
  [SPEAKER_14]: And it should have happened a long time ago.
• 2:11:15
  [SPEAKER_14]: I can't, and I'm not looking for people like that, but in New York, there's no one.
• 2:11:20
  [SPEAKER_14]: I have a local bar in New York, I hang out too.
• 2:11:22
  [SPEAKER_14]: That's not a position anyone would take there here.
• 2:11:26
  [SPEAKER_14]: It seems to be a defensible position.
• 2:11:28
  [SPEAKER_14]: And I now have become a local sport at this bar.
• 2:11:31
  [SPEAKER_14]: There's hunting fishing and baiting terror cavern off.
• 2:11:34
  [SPEAKER_14]: They bring their friends, they come in and they just say, yeah, it's the guy at the end of the bar with the New York accent, and they send them down to argue with me.
• 2:11:41
  [SPEAKER_14]: It's unpleasant, but it gives me an insight that I wouldn't get if I were just living solely in New York.
• 2:11:48
  [SPEAKER_14]: I really wouldn't because everybody's on the same side or everybody I know in New York is on the same side.
• 2:11:55
  [SPEAKER_14]: Here, I'm getting to hear what their twisted logic is and don't, you know, don't get me wrong.
• 2:12:02
  [SPEAKER_14]: It is logic, but it is twisted, it is twisted and it's, and it's a,
• 2:12:06
  [SPEAKER_14]: a chosen path that they're taking in their heads, what they're going to listen to, what they're going to watch.
• 2:12:12
  [SPEAKER_14]: We all do that.
• 2:12:12
  [SPEAKER_14]: We all seek, you know, confirmation bias in a certain way, but they are avoiding anything that conflicts with, yeah, yeah, works with them.
• 2:12:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: I grew up Mormon and that's how they trained you in Mormonism.
• 2:12:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like anything that shows you the data is wrong is a threat.
• 2:12:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like you put it out and you make up any excuse possible to make it okay again, you know, like just intense times, I've been thrilled to get to know you a little bit outside the show.
• 2:12:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: We've had meals and been to your home.
• 2:12:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: You're a solidly good human, you're a talented writer, you're a good father, you're a good partner to your wife.
• 2:12:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: These are crazy times, so thank you for creating spaces of safety, which is always something that I appreciate, and I try to emulate in my own life.
• 2:12:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: Jibny funnel words for people hang in there.
• 2:12:57
  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the best I can say.
• 2:12:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, we continue to create nerdy, joyful bases.
• 2:13:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: One of my mantras these days is living joyfully as an active defiance.
• 2:13:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: So I won't be smaller, but I will be safer.
• 2:13:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, that's the key.
• 2:13:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, Mr. Kavanaugh, thank you for your time.
• 2:13:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: This morning, thanks everybody for listening.
• 2:13:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: Take care yourselves.
• 2:13:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: We'll see you all back here next time.
• 2:13:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
• 2:13:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.