Latest / Think Twice Show / The Second Thought (BONUS FOOTAGE) ft Special Guests

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The Second Thought (BONUS FOOTAGE) ft Special Guests · Think Twice Show

0:00
Myself is not getting me, I'm single.
0:05
So the question is how do you change yourself?
0:09
Small, small. No, I don't think that should be
0:11
the case. Could you have a friend who's a
0:12
friend and also appreciate that they are even outside of that?
0:16
No, Fred can come around me. Yeah, I have fun, baby.
0:20
Life boy. Have you seen me and my
0:27
girlfriend? No, I mean like his theory was.
0:30
Always. It's not ideal, it's not
0:32
theoretical. This.
0:32
Is the life of my living. I'm talking about my real life.
0:49
Welcome back to Think Twice. It's good to have you back
0:51
before today's episode. I wanted to.
0:53
Just take, take a moment, obviously.
0:56
Well, I'm familiar and as you can see, you got one in my room.
0:59
We don't need to get to talk like this.
1:01
So I wanted to use that opportunity to thank you and and
1:06
I are super, super appreciative of all the support that you've
1:09
shown us. All the way from season.
1:12
One all the way through to season 3.
1:15
It's been a wild journey and we really, really appreciate the
1:19
support. You know, we've, we've learned a
1:22
lot. We've come a long way since we
1:24
dropped our first episode a year ago.
1:27
We get to learn as we prepare the episodes, we get to learn
1:31
from each other in the studio. And most importantly, we get to
1:35
learn from you in the comments and the DMS.
1:37
We've always wanted to create a community where people can
1:42
debate and discuss topics and they could be.
1:45
And we have you to thank for building that community with us.
1:51
And we feel super, super privileged that you're here,
1:54
you're watching our videos, you're engaging, and you're
1:58
subscribed. We, we thank you from the bottom
2:02
of our hearts. We're currently cooking up
2:04
Season 4, so we'll see you very, very soon.
2:09
Do traditional gender roles make modern black relationships more
2:13
difficult? Yes.
2:19
And, and again, I can only really talk from my own
2:21
experience, but I feel that I've had, I've had a really difficult
2:27
time dating and I think it's primarily because I'm a black
2:34
woman that succeeded. I find a lot of men just can't
2:40
get their head around it and so and they can't get their head
2:44
around it because of traditional gender roles.
2:48
And like it just, it's a problem because it's like, OK, So what
2:52
do I do? Do I make myself smaller for
2:54
you? Do I do I not talk about what I
2:57
do? Do I like if I'm walking with my
3:01
boyfriend and someone asks me for an autograph, am I supposed
3:05
to shoo them away because your male fragility based on a gender
3:09
role can't deal with that. I genuinely don't know what to
3:12
do. But I think it all comes from
3:15
this sort of like the man should lead, the man should make the
3:19
most money, the man should and, and, and so.
3:22
She's heavily prevalent in like Nigerian quarters.
3:24
Yeah. And I just don't know how to, I
3:27
don't know what to do with that because I'm not the person
3:31
that's going to, like, make you feel small as a man.
3:34
Like, I want you to be your best version of yourself, right?
3:38
And that means you lead me and make me feel safe.
3:42
And all these things that women want in in in men.
3:46
But equally, I think we've seen a resurgence or like an
3:49
emergence of black women who are just doing really well, who are
3:54
earning more money, who are, you know, and I just don't know if
4:00
men have been able to adjust to that.
4:03
Black men have been able to adjust to that because of these
4:07
gender roles. That's so many old authors in
4:10
general I feel like, because lots of them are just not good
4:12
people. Yeah, yeah, great ideas, like a
4:15
lot of them are bad. People are bad I feel like.
4:18
Yeah, lots of people from the older days in general are going
4:20
to be. Bad.
4:21
Yeah, yeah, real thought. So don't.
4:23
But don't you think like if, if they're, if they thought like
4:26
that need to be online and they never like they came up with an
4:32
opinion that you you think it's asinine?
4:34
Yeah. Doesn't that change the colour
4:37
with which you see their writing?
4:38
Yes, but I've it can do, but I think there can be certain
4:42
truths and like, I don't think I don't know.
4:46
I think you can understand certain truths and also not be
4:48
the best person in the world. Yeah, yeah, be.
4:51
A bad person and still understand something.
4:53
Or you. Know what I say anyway?
4:55
Like a broken clock is still is still right twice a day.
4:57
Yeah, yeah, you're right. So I don't know, man, I wouldn't
5:00
write off entire ideas because I think the person wasn't good
5:04
because I think there are lots of lots of very intelligent
5:06
people who he did horrible things.
5:09
No no and to be fair I don't write them off like I still
5:12
think Camus had great ideas Like Immanuel Kant face famously said
5:16
that all black people and Native Americans are suited to slavery.
5:22
Yeah, crazy. Who said?
5:23
That he said that at repeated times it wasn't I.
5:26
Haven't read that guy anyway so I might just leave that.
5:28
One, yeah, there were a couple of them that supported slavery.
5:33
Yeah, it was kind of. People like, even like reading
5:35
like lots of fiction, like I've found some people that write so
5:38
beautifully and then halfway through a passage, they'll just
5:40
say something mad racist. I didn't know that's the type of
5:43
person we were dealing with. But I do think it's an
5:45
interesting conversation also about societal change and about
5:50
how much society influences morals and and how much of how
5:53
much of morality is something that's just sort of inherently
5:57
within you from from birth. Or how much of it?
5:59
Is actually just like imposed upon you by by your
6:01
surroundings. And by this in your life.
6:03
Look. You guys know how I feel about
6:06
about this because we spoke on the phone, but just for clarity,
6:11
homophobia is in my mind. I really struggle to understand.
6:17
Sorry. Actually, I don't struggle.
6:19
Free my men, yeah? I saw that free my mental and
6:24
tyranny. And fragility, that was killing
6:27
me. Bro that's a good.
6:29
No, because it's like and I get people coming to Jordan.
6:32
It's not that deep, bro, like people saying no homo pause
6:35
wifey that like and I think yeah, look sure to you guys.
6:38
I can understand, but like this is, you know, this is how I look
6:43
at life. Everything's deep.
6:44
I think it is that deep, but everything's deep to me.
6:46
And and and go, yeah, Benz get started.
6:48
Yeah, no, because it's like it's it's it what what here's an
6:54
there's a few things I find funny about this.
6:55
Firstly, do you remember what knows that trend about Roman
6:59
Empire? Yeah.
7:00
Like what's my, you know. To explain it to Benz quickly.
7:04
Is this on TikTok? Yeah, she knows.
7:06
OK, there was a phase where women had realised globally, or
7:11
at least in the West, that the men in their lives, their
7:14
husbands, thought about the Roman Empire like a bizarre
7:18
amount of times. So the trend was asking the
7:20
husband, when's the last time you thought about the Roman
7:22
Empire? And they'll be like this
7:24
morning. Like 3 * a week.
7:26
It was just this wild concept. And every woman on TikTok was
7:31
like. What the fuck?
7:32
And it was like this thing. But like, you know, there's an
7:35
example Roman Empire, complete sexual fluidity.
7:38
Like, did anyone talk about the fact that it was completely
7:41
acceptable for a man to be married to a woman and engage in
7:44
all types of, you know, sexual exploration?
7:49
Yeah. You know, So is there anything
7:52
more traditionally masculine in these people's eyes than fucking
7:54
the the supposedly greatest empire that ever lived?
7:57
I don't agree with that by the way, but people would argue
8:00
especially in terms of Western philosophy, like yeah, it was a
8:04
big part of it. So but but I get it with black
8:07
culture, there's some real dark roots with the homophobia,
8:10
especially to do with the transatlantic slave trade, which
8:12
is obviously probably the worst thing I think ever.
8:16
And I think it's actually massively understated how
8:20
fucking horrendous that whole time was.
8:23
I've still. Learned about more and more who
8:25
have like, horrific stuff. The worst, The worst.
8:28
And it's and like, didn't finish that long ago.
8:30
Not, not really. If his philosophy and mode of
8:33
thinking got him to say we should compromise, then isn't it
8:37
flawed? It's flawed.
8:38
Like there, there's at very least there's a blind spot.
8:41
On the view that was saying it was his society affected.
8:43
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:45
And, and you're absolutely right.
8:47
Yeah. He was famous, by the way.
8:48
Like he was Rich Gallus like. Had it all.
8:52
I think also, once you have a certain amount of excess wealth
8:54
like you, you can't necessarily become a bad person, right?
8:59
To have that, to have an awareness of other people's
9:01
suffering and your comforts, like there has to be some sort
9:04
of dissonance there to keep you going every day.
9:06
I, I, I even think that with my own privilege, like myself, like
9:09
even living in this country, like naturally we are all like
9:13
top, like probably the top 10% of people of privilege in the
9:16
world. Like it's a.
9:17
Crazy thing, maybe more it's. Like, yeah.
9:19
And it's, it's like, I do think to an extent there's a logical
9:23
dissonance there that we have not done more than we do.
9:25
And that's something I struggle with every day because I feel
9:28
like if I was really trying to do to maximum like maximise the
9:33
goods that I could do with my life, I would probably be with
9:36
the just the oil guys lying in front of some trucks right now.
9:39
Right, doing something else out doing something, yeah.
9:42
Honestly. Yeah, it's, it's quite tough.
9:45
And obviously Camus was a famous celebrity.
9:47
He was living in France, adored by French white people.
9:51
Maybe he wasn't the one to be like.
9:53
Cool. Bomb, bomb them.
9:57
It's crazy. Yeah.
9:59
But also it's it's crazy because it should have been his duty.
10:02
Right, that's what I want. And that's how I feel about our
10:07
position in society as well, honestly, is that like, I think
10:09
way more of us should sort of awaken ourselves to the fact
10:12
that it's, it's more our responsibility than the people
10:15
who are actually directly suffering at, at the, you know,
10:20
horrible cruelties of justice. Like it's, it's because of our
10:23
privilege. We should be, we should be using
10:25
it and we should be trying to fishing's intimation to change
10:28
the circumstances. Men have, and I don't want to
10:31
generalise here, but like a lot of men online, want to cling to
10:35
that gender role because that gender role works well for them
10:38
in a patriarchy. So it's like you've got women
10:42
changing and adapting and trying to challenge the gender role and
10:46
men clinging on to something that they feel.
10:48
I wouldn't. I wouldn't even say like we're
10:51
trying to challenge the gender role, like I'm not consciously
10:55
doing what I do and like fulfilling the gift that God has
11:00
put inside me to challenge your gender role.
11:04
I'm just, I'm just trying to be the best version of myself as a
11:07
woman, right? So.
11:10
Where do you see yourself in relation to the gender role
11:13
itself? Like, do you feel like you want
11:17
to overhaul the gender role, or do you see yourself as aligning
11:20
with elements of it? I think the gender role is
11:23
outdated, right? So I think the gender role for
11:28
women has always been, you know, stay at home, cook, look after
11:34
the kids, make a home, right? You can do all of those things
11:38
as a successful woman too. But to say that it's only that I
11:43
think is a problem because where does a successful woman who has
11:47
a career fit into that? You have successful women who
11:54
you know, have children and figure it out like they look
11:58
after their children as as well as a woman that doesn't work
12:01
looks after their children. So I think it's outdated.
12:05
I think the way we view gender roles is outdated.
12:08
I think if you come from a relationship that's been quite
12:12
damaging or harmful, or you've just broken up with someone,
12:15
then I think being single can be really, really good and really
12:18
needed. And I think like what you said,
12:21
you can, it can be about a lot of self growth and improvement
12:24
and potentially finding yourself again.
12:26
And I found myself when I, when I was single, when I was single
12:28
for 2 1/2 years, I found myself now sort of being able to be the
12:34
best partner possible, you know, and it's sort of in the place
12:38
where I can be someone who's really good in a relationship
12:42
and hopefully in a relationship for the rest of my life, you
12:44
know, But I, I therefore do think that being single is, I
12:47
don't like the term underrated, but I think there's something
12:49
really important about being single.
12:54
Good work, OK. Let's go No, you disagree.
12:58
No man I just disagree with your whole opinion.
13:00
Like the more and more you keep talking, the less and less I
13:04
agree like. Discuss Band-Aid.
13:08
This Christmas. No, bear with me bro, bear with
13:14
me. I've not flexed that muscle into
13:20
cool good. Was that anyone?
13:22
That was it. Supposedly I'd have to look this
13:27
up, fact checking on this, but it's like 1869 was the point at
13:31
which psychologists or or psychiatrists decided to put a
13:35
label on heterosexuality and and homosexuality.
13:40
Previously I'm guessing that homosexuality was an act that
13:44
obviously through religious lens was considered to be sinful, but
13:47
it didn't mean that you were homosexual who just was an act.
13:53
The argument is in the in the wake of this, of the actual
13:56
identification with sexuality, like identifying with it, you
14:00
then put forth straight men living in a capitalist
14:04
patriarchy to perform straightness and then I guess
14:08
now consequently gay men to perform gayness in order to
14:12
separate themselves. There's, there's, there are so
14:15
many because of the, the natural, because of the, like I
14:19
say the, the rejection of femininity through this current
14:23
patriarchal lens, which I don't think it doesn't need to be
14:25
effective in patriarchy at all. But, you know, there will also
14:28
be gay guys who want to be separated from straight men
14:32
because of the kind of damage they've experienced or, or, you
14:35
know, they actually feel safer in their queer circles with the
14:39
girls or the women or whatever. You know what I'm saying?
14:41
That's fascinating to me. Again, we talk about
14:44
conditioning boys and girls, like why I wonder if many of the
14:49
decisions that are made these fixed and it happens too in the
14:51
LGBTQ community that are pushing to a fixed identity.
14:55
I wouldn't agree either way. You know, I, I actually believe
14:58
everything is a lot more fluid and it's the rigidity of, it's
15:02
the binary way in which we look at men and women that pushes
15:05
people into making decisions and identifying, you know what I
15:09
mean, identity. 100% I I definitely agree with you there.
15:12
Are lots of the elites would like you to think, is that the
15:16
only way to make real change is to do it through the system?
15:19
I think what that means is that like, there are people who like,
15:24
I even look at Kamala Harris as maybe being something like this,
15:26
like somebody who had quite leftist ideologies.
15:28
But in order to get to the place where she's at, she's had to
15:31
compromise and compromise and compromise.
15:33
And now she's condoning the killing of children in Gaza,
15:36
which I don't think she at base as a person thinks is right.
15:39
But I think she must have convinced herself that I'm going
15:42
to be better than Trump at least, or I'm going to be able
15:44
to at least save this for these people.
15:46
And I think once you have to compromise your morals in order
15:50
to make the change, it's already muddy water because.
15:52
Yeah, it's, it's been rich. You did an episode on.
15:54
This to be. Fair, but we discussed it and my
15:57
point was essentially, you cannot be like a virtuous
16:00
politician. Yeah.
16:01
So like it's indeed they're diametrically.
16:03
Opposed to this, I definitely think that for like a police
16:05
officer, for example, like I think if you're in the police
16:07
force, even if you even if you think that you're doing good and
16:10
on a day-to-day you're like, yeah, I got this knife off the
16:12
street that's that's a positive. I think you're working within a
16:15
system that is already very cancerous to society and I think
16:18
you're participating in it is is necessarily aiding what I think
16:23
is an evil force in society. And it's not because you as an
16:26
individual are like being a racist on the streets and only
16:29
looking at black people. You don't have to be doing that,
16:30
but you are part of a culture that that makes that.
16:35
Happen that breeds that, yeah. It's from people higher up.
16:37
You're probably enforcing those ideas because it's keeping their
16:40
pockets full. But yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:41
I still think to go along with it.
16:43
You're, you're playing, you're playing your role in a way that
16:45
is becoming to me. Well, I think the gender roles
16:50
are conditioned within us, right?
16:52
So our preference comes from a gender role.
16:56
So do you know what? I mean, so, you know, my
16:59
preference is, you know, men who are leaders, like they can teach
17:05
me something intelligent, like, you know, and that plays into
17:10
somewhat of a gender role. But I also like secure men that
17:15
aren't going to be intimidated by me doing my thing.
17:18
And that's like finding a needle in the haystack in 2024.
17:22
So that so so somewhat. My preference is that up to this
17:25
point. Well, I just like you just act.
17:28
It's just better. I just thought, no, this just
17:31
made me laugh. Like you just act in black.
17:35
Yeah. Like a needle in the haystack.
17:37
It's like, right. It's like 1 of you out.
17:39
There's no. Stand in your truth, don't let
17:41
me. I have to be listen it.
17:44
It pains me because, but I have to be honest, like my again, I
17:50
can only speak about my experience.
17:52
All of the dating experiences I've had, The, the, the, the,
17:56
the Walhalla starts when they, you know, we've had a nice time.
18:02
We dated for a few, a few, and then they understand the reality
18:05
of my life. And you know, they see the
18:10
amount of attention I get online or they see a fan stop me for a
18:15
picture. I can literally see the
18:20
fragility play out, but they don't they're not comfortable
18:24
with it versus that's my goal. Like I'm proud of you.
18:29
I'm. Going to pick it up.
18:30
I just haven't had that experience yet and I pray to God
18:32
that I do find someone, but I just haven't had that experience
18:36
yet. Through the the the phrases that
18:38
you, you, yeah, put up no homo pause that those things to me,
18:42
the homophobic and they, they hurt.
18:45
Yeah. Also also the thing that I think
18:48
is wild about it is the damage is is beginning with the man
18:53
saying it, MMM before it even gets to the community, MMM, It's
18:56
like there is no benefit to you. And also it's the antithesis.
18:59
Like I said in the video, it's antithetical to security.
19:02
MMM, a reflection. What did I say about like the
19:05
heart, you know, protection, devotion, like that, that
19:07
alignment of why, what is it? It's immature for me to feel the
19:11
need to tell somebody I'm in, I'm in company with, remind them
19:15
how I identify. I shouldn't be secure in myself.
19:18
I don't need to tell you. I can say something that sounds
19:20
gay and not be gay. It's it's wild that we got to a
19:23
point where because I have to, I have to deep it.
19:25
Like so the the suggestion is, if a person says something that
19:29
sounds gay and doesn't say pause, their fear is everybody
19:33
who's with them knows their whole life, their whole every
19:35
context of it, they're suddenly going to worry that actually
19:38
they've been gay the whole time. That that is, that is a, a
19:43
unhinged outlook on existing with kids.
19:47
I get it. With kids, I get it because
19:49
they're learning and they're fighting and they're boundaries
19:51
and whatever else. But an adult, A grown.
19:54
Adult. It's mad to me.
19:55
I do feel someone has to and it seems like never you 2 are going
19:59
to have to argue the other point to this please.
20:03
Not to say that like I, I fully agree with this.
20:06
Me and Tev have had this discussion.
20:07
Before, actually, yeah, quite. Recently.
20:09
Yeah, quite recently. Like before I saw your video,
20:11
yeah. Yeah, and I sent him the video.
20:14
Like, look, yeah, totally. Agree.
20:18
He's on my side and I was like, I think it's it's stemmed from I
20:25
think a homophobic place. I do agree with that, but I do
20:30
think it's developed into something else where women say
20:34
it as well. And do they?
20:36
Yeah, they. Do about themselves or about
20:38
guys? No, they'll send it to each
20:41
other and I feel like it's developed into, I'll send you
20:45
the video after this. Yeah, it's developed into
20:48
something else where it's sort of disgusting, freaky behaviour,
20:52
like if a if a rather than just simply a homophobic slur.
20:58
Do you know what I mean? And that's what I felt like it's
21:01
developed into a little bit and, and I don't know, maybe that
21:04
might be a bit of an apologist for it just because you enjoy
21:08
the banter of it all. But I feel like that's the
21:11
that's the take some people have on that in opposition.
21:15
It's the same. It's it's, you know, you can get
21:19
the response, same response for loads of stuff.
21:21
You get the same thing of like stop eating McDonald's.
21:23
But yeah, but it's not that deep, which is nice.
21:25
Yeah, I. Like the weekends?
21:27
And I'm like, cool but. It's still harmful.
21:29
It's yeah. So basically, there's this
21:31
couple they've met. They seem perfect for each
21:33
other. They even, like, look, like,
21:37
physically attracted to each other, like, enjoy each other's
21:39
company. But she was in the military, and
21:42
he's a progressive person who's engaged with social issues.
21:46
Well read. And she's basically like, oh,
21:51
she's no longer in the military and she's not planning on going
21:54
back there. She's learning like law, but
22:00
he's proud of her service, right?
22:03
And when they talk about it, she can't separate the people in the
22:06
force. Like they're talking about the
22:08
police. She's like, oh, but I love the
22:10
people I served with in the Navy.
22:12
And, and he's kind of like, no, that's fine.
22:16
But I'm talking about the industrial military complex,
22:19
right? And, and she's basically like,
22:21
oh, what? So you want me to be ashamed of
22:22
it? I can't be with anyone who wants
22:24
me to be ashamed of my past. And it's like she just can't,
22:28
you know what I mean? And it's like, I'm sure the feds
22:31
and the Met, like they love their guys and like, you know
22:34
what I mean? They think they're doing 100%,
22:37
but it's just like confused. Yeah, yeah.
22:41
Do you know what I mean? That and, and the bigger is it
22:43
comes back to your point about the left and the right, the
22:45
bigger picture of the industrial and metro complex.
22:47
It's kind of difficult to like explain and like, yeah, let's
22:50
get. I just want to talk about Karen
22:52
and Kate and like, you know what I mean?
22:54
I get. That the problem is though, how
22:57
do you get change? Because it's easy to critique
22:59
things, isn't it? Like it's, it's so easy to
23:01
critique things, but how? Like unless you think we block
23:04
the whole system, how do you change it?
23:08
And I think this is a problem, this is what I was trying to say
23:09
earlier as well. It's it's a problem with lots of
23:12
left wing ideologies is that we don't come with progressive
23:15
solutions 1st and formula and don't have answers for lots of
23:19
that stuff. I don't know bro, I don't know.
23:23
I just all I can do is is acknowledge when I see things in
23:27
society that I think are sick and and be like, that's not
23:30
good. And I think that we should do
23:31
something so that I don't think I'm the scholar who has who's.
23:34
Who has all the ideas? Yeah, comics.
23:35
You can be like this is the way that it should run and we should
23:38
just put that there and it'll be fine.
23:40
But I do think there needs to be.
23:42
An acceptance that that's wrong, isn't it?
23:44
Right. Yeah, that's that one isn't.
23:45
It yeah, like we know Lex is wrong.
23:47
We know we need to hear. Yeah, and I think I'm.
23:49
Not open to ideas like if anyone else can come and.
23:52
And I think, I think Marissa, though, Marissa from Marissa is
23:54
like, don't conscribe, like don't go into the Army.
23:58
That's step one in it, yeah. I think it's a little bit
24:00
different, like because when when you're 16, your ideas
24:03
aren't your own. Like you're, do you get what I
24:05
mean? Like when you're 18, your ideas
24:07
aren't your own. They come from other people.
24:09
Precisely. Like people like and also again
24:12
back to class, like lots of these people are like lower
24:14
class people who are like sold the idea of some Social
24:16
Security, sold the idea of a guaranteed education.
24:20
I think I'm attracted to security.
24:22
That's what I want. That's what I'm crying out for.
24:24
Can, can you just be secure enough in your masculinity to
24:27
hold space for me to be my full authentic self?
24:30
Because what happens to me is I start editing myself.
24:34
I'm making myself smaller so your masculinity can, can, can
24:38
live alongside me. You know, like, and, and we tend
24:42
to want to please the people we like, of course.
24:44
So, but, but there's times when I'm like, why am I doing this?
24:47
Like I just, there's times when I've been in dating situations
24:51
and I just won't talk about what I do because I'm scared.
24:54
I'm like, is this going to make him feel a certain way or, you
24:58
know, and, and maybe I shouldn't do that.
24:59
Maybe that's just my, like, you know, I'm a bit scarred from
25:03
certain experiences. But like, I do think that
25:05
there's something there about like, how can how can men,
25:10
particularly black men, feel more secure in just situations
25:15
that are not traditional? You know, I earn all the money.
25:18
I pay for everything. Yeah, I think, I think, I think
25:21
is. Because black women are just
25:23
doing better, you know, So and, and, and the, the, the
25:28
combination between black women doing better and black being
25:31
women being single is a thing. Next time we come back on here,
25:36
you'll be telling us you'll be. Doing this found him.
25:44
But yeah, good shit. Probably right out of town
25:46
though. Yeah, maybe.
25:48
It might but like. Why?
25:55
I feel when you are in a relationship you have a
25:58
responsibility to someone else. You have a duty to someone else.
26:02
You don't have that duty when you're single.
26:06
The freedom to go, to go and do what you want, when you want.
26:10
Why? Why wouldn't you do that in a?
26:11
Relationship, I think well, first of all, you just want you
26:14
want to spend time with your partner you want to be there for
26:16
them sure in the same way if they just went away and sort of
26:20
I see what you're saying this is like I see a relationship like
26:23
yeah you feel safe you feel comfortable but I think and I
26:27
and I completely agree with you in the ideal relationship
26:29
absolutely yeah, you. Wouldn't feel restricted or like
26:33
something's taken from me freedom wise.
26:34
Absolutely. Absolutely.
26:35
But again, I just do think that people have their own people are
26:39
like they have their own ways of being in relationships.
26:41
And some people are like anxious, anxious, touched or
26:43
some people, yeah. Because when when you're
26:45
younger, like. We, you're speaking about the
26:47
ideal person, is what I'm saying.
26:48
Yeah, as well. And I think we all come with our
26:50
shit and our problems. And naturally, if you do
26:52
something I don't want speaking sort of loudly, if you do
26:59
something in, in, in a relationship, my partner, it
27:01
might trigger me for some reason.
27:03
Sure. And I might be like, oh, you
27:05
know, And that's why I do think I'm such a big advocate for like
27:08
therapy. And I think that there are
27:09
things that you can do single specifically with like mental
27:14
health and mental well-being that you can't do in a
27:16
relationship. I'll try to suss out early doors
27:18
whether he did assign to traditional values or not.
27:21
How? Do you suss that out?
27:22
I don't know, I don't know. No, because no, it's a genuine
27:27
question because I've found out after the fact of.
27:31
Course, when push comes to shop. When push comes to shop, they
27:34
couldn't deal with it. Right up until that point, it
27:37
was like, oh, this is a lovely intelligent man.
27:40
Seems like he respects women. You know, the guys I've dated
27:44
only exclusively date black women.
27:46
So actually even more conscious than the average man.
27:50
But when it came to that bit of oh shit, like she's getting more
27:56
attention than me or they couldn't deal with it and it
27:59
became this sort of competition or jealousy.
28:02
And so, so I think it actually kicks in in relationships that
28:08
you can test it out in relationships.
28:10
And I kind of want to know before, before beforehand, how
28:14
do I see that in men? Like is it the way they talk
28:17
about women? Is it like I genuinely don't
28:21
know. Do you know what I sometimes
28:24
this might be like, not right to say, but do you ever think that
28:29
you could do anything differently?
28:31
Because there's, there's always like, OK, I when you're
28:34
selecting people, it's, it's, it's what they can do.
28:37
So like, and it's tough to change somebody else's
28:40
behaviour, right? Like.
28:41
My therapist asked me exactly that question and I said, yeah,
28:45
I think I can be more vulnerable.
28:47
I think I come, I present as somebody that's got it all
28:50
together. Don't really need you like don't
28:53
need your help. That is not going to attract the
28:58
man that I actually want, which is.
29:00
I actually think it's the other way round, though I think you
29:02
should overtly be that at the start.
29:05
Vulnerable. No overtly be yourself.
29:09
So like you see what you're saying that the.
29:12
Myself is not getting me, I'm single.
29:18
So the question is how do you change yourself?
29:21
Small, small. No, I don't think that should be
29:24
the case. I don't think you should need to
29:25
change yourself. No, but I genuinely like I'm the
29:27
person I will actually do that if it if, because I'm not
29:32
sitting here going I'm perfect as this woman, like that's not
29:35
me. Like I'm actually like, okay,
29:37
what is what am I presenting here that is making men feel
29:41
intimidated or like? You're not the problem though.
29:45
No, but to his point, I I might not change that man that it
29:48
prescribes to a gender role like that's that's energy that like
29:52
I'm probably wasting versus what can I do?
29:55
But then just don't go for men who are sound to the gender.
29:58
You can't. Know that before you.
29:59
Can work that out. How you can't not really value,
30:03
Yes, you can. No, you can't.
30:04
You can't know that until like about six months, to be honest
30:07
with you because. It's months.
30:08
Yeah, there might be like other reasons not even like.
30:11
Unless you're asking bad questions in the.
30:12
Beginning. You don't have the, I don't
30:14
think. It's not about the volume, it's
30:15
about the content of the question.
30:17
If you ask them pointed questions that you think would
30:20
illuminate you and reveal parts of their character, then ask
30:26
those questions. I think a lot of what you're
30:28
speaking about is through this and correct me if I'm wrong,
30:31
this vision of like almost everlasting love, like a love
30:34
that was survived the test of time.
30:35
And I do think that like. Have you seen me and my
30:37
girlfriend? No, I mean like his.
30:40
Theories. It's always It's not ideal, it's
30:42
not theoretical. This is the life of my living.
30:43
No, that's what I'm saying. I'm talking about my real life.
30:45
This is. Like, no, I'm saying that's
30:49
like, I think that's what everyone dreams of, right?
30:51
This kind of like movie type love.
30:53
But I do, I do think that, you know, I've been in relationships
30:55
that have lasted three years, relationships that have lasted 4
30:58
years and that that it was true love and nothing would take away
31:02
from that. And I could say it was still a
31:04
really important relationship for me.
31:05
I would never like do it over and decide.
31:07
What to? But I do think this idea of kind
31:11
of like a love lasting, you know, 40-50 years, there's never
31:14
any problems. It doesn't it doesn't exist.
31:17
And I do think that little things creep up and you know, if
31:22
you see someone together still when they're like 80, you think
31:25
about how much sacrifice, how many times have you guys
31:28
made-up, broken up, come back together, etcetera, like little
31:31
arguments. And I just think within all of
31:33
that, maybe there are things that you can do when you're sort
31:36
of single that you can't this idea of like growth in a in a
31:39
relationship, but you're. Saying like growing.
31:41
Growing, growing together is like the ideal.
31:44
I just, I can't see it as rooted in anything other than again, a
31:48
disconnection from self and and a lack of appreciation for like
31:53
half like that femininity. Like every man is half woman and
31:57
it and it feels almost like a wild thing to remind people of
32:00
at this point, you know, in terms of the fucking genetics,
32:03
man like, and and we we are so afraid.
32:08
Like like what is it? Like?
32:09
What is it that would be most worried about in that space is
32:12
being considered submissive or I don't know, you know, but that
32:17
that disconnection, that rejection isn't beneficial even
32:20
to the person saying that, even if I don't think it's that deep,
32:22
I just don't. I just can't.
32:25
I really can't conceive like why the one the last one I saw was
32:28
someone was trying to tell a story and they went let me throw
32:30
it back pause to when I was 12 and I was like you for real in
32:36
your own video. There weren't even people around
32:40
throw it back. Put like bro the context of you
32:42
saying let me throw it back is you telling a story.
32:44
Yeah, about when you were 12. Why did you have to say what
32:47
it's like it feels? Do you ever find it funny
32:50
though? Like not ever what you never you
32:53
never like experienced them for? Oh, OK, That was kind of funny
32:56
because because essentially what it what it could double S
32:59
sometimes is like a punt or a double and punt.
33:01
Do you know what I mean? Like like.
33:03
Double entendre is generous. Not no double entendre, but.
33:09
But it could. It could double SA punt.
33:12
Right, but but in my head though, I.
33:13
Have I've found it funny before? Let me not, Let me not.
33:15
Like, no, but the time I found it, every time I found it funny.
33:19
I haven't found it funny because they're saying no homo.
33:22
I found the original thing funny.
33:24
And then in my world, I would say pro homo or I'd say like,
33:27
yeah, or make a joke. Oy, oy.
33:28
Do you know what I mean? You make a joke about the fact
33:30
that you've accidentally. Yeah, you've accidentally made
33:33
the point that you sounds like you like fucking guys.
33:36
Like that without diminishing the actual reality of of fucking
33:40
guys, you can still find that funny, a sexual innuendo of any
33:43
sense. It's funny.
33:43
It's funny, you know. What I'm trying to say, it's
33:45
essentially what I'm trying to get, yeah.
33:46
Yeah, no, I hear. I think no homo's aggressive.
33:48
I hear. I think no homo was very
33:50
aggressive. But it's like.
33:51
It's just comparison to, you know what I mean?
33:53
There's. One exchange I have with a guy,
33:55
I said something hyperbolic in a in a podcast, which it was, it
33:58
was provocative, which was that I argued that everybody's born
34:03
bisexual and it's conditioned out of us, right?
34:05
I understand that for some man that's a crazy thing for me to
34:08
say. I get.
34:09
I get it. I get it.
34:10
But what was funny about it? No, what was interesting, it
34:13
wasn't really funny, but interesting was I got someone
34:15
coming at me in the comments. Yeah.
34:17
And I'm like me, I'm curious. I want to know.
34:19
And he and he was like, talk about yourself.
34:23
Like if you want to come out, you can talk about you coming
34:25
out, but you can't talk about me.
34:26
Like I'm not even 1%. And I've gone like, look, it was
34:30
just a suggestion. I was saying that like you
34:32
wouldn't even know because sexual fluidity from a male,
34:35
from a male perspective is so shamed and demonised that you
34:38
wouldn't even know. I literally know girls who'll be
34:40
like the first time I fuck someone I like, had sex with my
34:43
best friend, but they're straight.
34:45
They're straight women. Normal question.
34:46
Now married a husband, first sexual experience with their
34:49
best friend. But now could a man say that?
34:52
Could a man turn around and say like married of kids are very
34:54
happy? Yeah, I sucked my mate's Dick
34:56
when I was younger, but that's it.
34:57
That's. What I'm trying to say the
35:00
experimentation. In that, in that space, yeah,
35:02
even how we perceive penises, all that kind of stuff, there's
35:05
this complete. It's like we've terrified.
35:08
They're honestly terrified. Like they can't.
35:10
We can't, you know? And I find that.
35:12
I find I just find it, I find it fascinating.
35:15
Anyway, sorry, I was carrying on with this story.
35:16
So. So I said to this guy, that's
35:17
what I felt. And he said, speak for yourself.
35:20
And I went, all right, look, are you against like gay?
35:23
Are you are you homophobic? And he went, I don't believe
35:27
that da, da, da, da. And I went, OK, so do you watch
35:29
two straight women having sex in porn?
35:31
And he said, yeah, but that's different.
35:34
And I went, what? I'm interested.
35:36
Why is that different? And he said, because I find
35:39
women, everybody finds women beautiful.
35:42
I don't even find men 1% beautiful.
35:44
This is how he said, and then I'm starting to deep this, I'm
35:46
going like, so your rejection of this is rooted in the fact that
35:50
you like, how would I be able to perceive my own beauty if I'm
35:54
not even willing to accept that another man can be considered
35:56
beautiful? Do you know what I'm saying?
35:58
Like it feels like it's rooted in a rejection of self.
36:00
That's that's that's. Why?
36:03
I'm a big proponent of hedonism, like controlled hed hedonism.
36:09
Are you guys? Putting me on the back.
36:13
How long was that? Huh?
36:16
No 26. And it went quick, isn't it?
36:18
That went so far. In the first six months I was
36:23
dating this guy and it, it became, Oh yeah, yeah, I've,
36:28
I've bought 2 properties. It became a competition.
36:31
And in my head I was like, I don't, I don't really care.
36:35
Like this is not like, why has this become like who's getting
36:38
more? And like, it just, it was this
36:41
bizarre reaction to me doing something that he hadn't done
36:45
yet. And I wasn't saying it to him to
36:48
brag. I was actually saying it to him
36:50
to be like excited like, you know, and, and again, my heart
36:56
sank because I was like, OK, this is not something that you
37:00
actually like. You're not happy for me.
37:03
What you're doing, Yeah. Like you're not happy for me.
37:05
You're not encouraging me. You're competing with me because
37:08
it's about you and what you you feel like you where you feel
37:12
like you should be at in life in comparison to me as a woman.
37:15
So. So it's about did you did?
37:17
You coach that topic clip. Did you actually like mention
37:19
that? Yeah, I said.
37:20
I remember saying to him like, because he kept saying like, Oh
37:24
yeah, like, you know, I just bought this property and I'm
37:28
buying this property and he'd never mentioned properties
37:31
before I did. So I was like, bro, like you
37:35
keep you keep talking about. All of these properties.
37:38
Are you good? I was like, I don't in my head.
37:41
I was like, I don't care. Yeah.
37:42
Like, and and do you know what happened?
37:45
I started regretting telling him, which is not normal.
37:48
Like you should be able to tell your your boyfriend or your
37:52
girlfriend, right? Like, I've got to this place
37:54
where I can buy this student property and it's an investment.
37:56
I'm really excited about it. I started just not telling him.
37:59
And. What I'm doing is I'm pandering
38:03
to whatever fragility you have because you're you, you feel
38:08
like, oh, that's what I should be doing and like I, I should be
38:11
ahead of that because I'm a man and you're a woman.
38:13
It's stupid, but it's a thing like it it.
38:16
And and what I'm trying to do is discern early doors.
38:21
Like what? Do they have that problem?
38:22
They have that. Problem of even having like
38:24
multiple friends of different religions to me is like is, is
38:26
similar to that in a way that like all of these ideas
38:29
technically clash against each other, but we can all be
38:31
together and, and go where our Venn diagram actually links up
38:36
and be like, this is the common good.
38:37
So we can work in this direction.
38:39
And I think that's what a lot of, again, I keep going back to
38:42
this, but what a lot of leftists leave out is that they try and
38:46
make their viewpoint this sort of esoteric club that other
38:49
people can't get in. It's like, I'm right and all
38:51
these guys are wrong. Like fuck all of these guys.
38:53
I think that's actually very dangerous because I think you're
38:55
not going to garner any support for these positive ideas that
38:57
you're actually trying to put out there.
38:59
If you're alienating all the people, do you want to be
39:02
changing their minds? Yeah, I'm realising that I might
39:04
be like leftist because no fed can come around me, but I'm
39:11
bummed by me life. No Feds is crazy.
39:19
Nah, yeah. I don't know.
39:20
I don't know if I could really. Police boy.
39:22
Police boy. And I share this with you from a
39:29
vulnerable place because I feel quite lost, you know, and it's
39:32
kind of like, I want all the things other women want, you
39:35
know, I want, you know, a partner.
39:38
I want to have children, I want to have a family.
39:40
But at the same time, I'm like, how does this work with where
39:44
I'm at in my life and my career, you know, and, and does it, does
39:48
it even exist anymore? You know these because if I go
39:53
to Nigeria, it's probably even worse in terms of gender roles.
39:56
Yeah, yeah, America. I think American men probably
39:59
tend to be a little bit more open.
40:02
You've got a large. More used to it, yeah.
40:04
More other here. I'm still trying to figure it
40:06
out to be honest. Yeah, but it does seem like it's
40:09
like few and far between. I think it just interests me
40:14
where we draw these lines because there are like like
40:16
that. It is almost a choice at that
40:18
point and it's like I try and figure out when I'm drawing the
40:21
line because it's affecting me personally and when I'm drawing
40:23
it because I just think this is right and this is.
40:25
Wrong. Yeah, that's a good point.
40:26
But even like I even struggle, for example, with like the
40:29
amount of misogyny and a lot of the hip hop I listen to like I
40:33
don't blame people for for carrying those sorts of mindsets
40:37
and views. But yeah, but that's what I'm
40:42
saying. I listen to future.
40:44
I consider myself a feminist. Listen to the.
40:46
Future So what's? Happening.
40:47
It's like where do we draw the line?
40:48
Like am IA bad person because I'm supporting sort of speaking
40:53
about women in horribly derogatory ways for music.
40:57
Do you think arts and Dick are kind of different thing?
40:59
To be fair, like I, I. Agree.
41:00
But I think, yeah, I agree. I agree.
41:02
But I think at the end of the day, some of these are just
41:04
outright statements about about women that I would at base
41:07
disagree. With disagree with Yeah.
41:08
But I can also appreciate a lot of it.
41:11
It's like, I don't know, like in the same breath, could you have
41:13
a friend who's a friend and and also appreciate that they are
41:18
human outside of that and that they are almost they have almost
41:21
been led to the the place that they're in by the information
41:24
that they've so. Yeah.
41:25
And look, I, I agree that that's actually, it's not like a
41:29
positive thing that I would judge someone and like, oh,
41:31
like, say you can't come round me.
41:34
It's just like, it's almost a flaw.
41:37
Like it's just one of them things.
41:39
It's not something I'm proud of. Yeah, You know, I'm not like, Oh
41:43
yeah, like, you know, pitchforks and flames, you know what I
41:45
mean? But also slightly like, yeah.
41:53
It's. Annoying to have to kind of
41:57
like, twist yourself to make someone else feel comfortable
42:01
when it's their problem. But I think goes back to your
42:04
earlier point, like these things are steeped in conditioning.
42:07
Yeah. So like, I'd rather not waste my
42:10
time trying to change the conditioning of gender roles and
42:15
change myself to something that doesn't not change myself, but
42:19
make myself a little bit more vulnerable to create more space
42:23
for you to feel more like a man and see how that goes.
42:28
I think, I think if you see something like if I saw
42:31
something in my own character that I thought wasn't quite
42:33
right, I would want to fix that. But.
42:36
I don't know if it's quite right to always present as a woman as
42:41
I don't really need you. I've got my shit together like I
42:45
don't know if and that's just how I.
42:47
I find that attractive. Well, I mean, I hope there's a
42:50
lot of men that do. I think there are.
42:52
Yeah, I think there are if you. Found them.
42:54
Also please if you make to recommend them, I've got a.
43:00
Little pattern for you. This is what I can.
43:02
Do. But do you know what I mean?
43:03
Like I think I, I and I speak to my other female friends as well,
43:08
who, who find that hard to find. So we then have to start
43:13
thinking about, OK, well, you know, how do I come across a
43:17
little bit more like submissive? And all of these words get like,
43:22
you know, and, and someone, a guy asked me and said, how
43:25
submissive are you? Almost like it's a sliding
43:28
scale. And I thought to myself, he's
43:31
asked me that question because he doesn't think I'm submissive.
43:36
And again, that's a gender role question.
43:39
You know, he's saying, I don't know if I can cope with you in
43:42
this present form where you're confident or whatever.
43:45
So just change, submit and listen you, you can submit.
43:51
I can submit to someone who's amazing and I respect, but you
43:55
have to be amazing and I respect you first.
43:58
Maybe you're not dating pools like quite small, you know?
44:00
You know if I if I said like. It's tiny.
44:02
Yeah, maybe you'll bed that like available to you that you
44:05
actually like is quite small as well like.
44:07
If I said if I said if I asked my girlfriend, like would you
44:10
submit to me? I think she'd literally just
44:13
vomit. I like your girlfriend.
44:16
She'd vomit on my T-shirt because that's not she would.
44:20
She she she she. She would.
44:22
That's a weird question, isn't? It Yeah, that's a crazy
44:24
question. When?
44:24
I heard that. I thought that's a wrap.
44:27
That is over. Yeah, I when he asked me, I was
44:30
a bit like. Because he's saying, he's saying
44:32
it quite a bit. I thought it was a yeah.
44:34
He's saying the quiet. I thought it was a sexual
44:35
question but he was not. It wasn't a he was like.
44:40
Did you ask like, what do you mean?
44:41
Like that's what What do you mean?
44:43
Like well. This was like early chatting
44:45
stage like you know, and so it was like it.
44:49
Wasn't a chatting stage, I actually got to get my head
44:51
round it. Wasn't deep for me, but like he
44:53
was basically saying I like you, but like I don't like this
44:58
feeling that I have that you might not like be this kind of,
45:03
I go for girls that are more submissive.
45:04
Basically it's what he said and he was older than me.
45:08
It's what he said to me. So but I thought it was a weird
45:12
question and I said to him like, what do you mean?
45:14
Like do you mean like sexually? Do you mean?
45:17
And he was like, no, generally. A lot of people like I don't
45:31
have a friend who's a police officer, like I don't really
45:36
have that many friends or if any that are in the military.
45:38
Do you know what I mean? Like so it's like well thing
45:40
you. Think.
45:45
That's your friend. That's not my camera.
45:48
You know, women longer than me. But let's get out of this.
45:51
Do it. Yeah.
45:51
Let's do it. Let's do it.