Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Leading Rural Healthcare Through Growth and Innovation with Matt Heywood

Transcript

Leading Rural Healthcare Through Growth and Innovation with Matt Heywood · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - There's a small circle of people who truly
• 0:04
  - understand what it takes to lead a health
• 0:05
  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
• 0:08
  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
• 0:11
  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
• 0:14
  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
• 0:17
  - And it's why the most effective c suite
• 0:19
  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
• 0:21
  - pressure test their thinking.
• 0:22
  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
• 0:26
  - brings together more than 1,500
• 0:28
  - executive level attendees
• 0:30
  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
• 0:32
  - around growth, financial sustainability,
• 0:35
  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
• 0:38
  - have easy answers.
• 0:39
  - Join us November second through the fifth in
• 0:41
  - Chicago.
• 0:42
  - For the agenda and event details,
• 0:45
  - visit beckershospitalreview.com
• 0:47
  - and click on the events tab in the
• 0:49
  - upper right.
• 0:50
  - This is Scott Becker
• 0:52
  - with the Becker's Health Care podcast.
• 0:55
  - We're thrilled today to be joined by a
• 0:57
  - brilliant leader, but we're joined today by Matt
• 1:00
  - Haywood.
• 1:01
  - Matt's the CEO and president at Aspirus Healthcare,
• 1:05
  - a a great health system in Wisconsin.
• 1:08
  - We're gonna talk to him about both trends
• 1:10
  - he's watching,
• 1:11
  - what he's most focused on,
• 1:13
  - what eFib is, and we'll get to that
• 1:15
  - later,
• 1:16
  - the University of Michigan, and a lot more.
• 1:19
  - Matt, let me ask you to introduce yourself.
• 1:21
  - You've had this brilliant career.
• 1:24
  - Talk about your career and about Aspirus Healthcare.
• 1:28
  - My name is Matt Haven. I'm president and
• 1:30
  - CEO of Aspirus Health. Thanks for having me,
• 1:32
  - Scott.
• 1:33
  - I have been actually here at Aspirus Health
• 1:36
  - for thirteen years. I'm going on my fourteenth
• 1:38
  - year, starting in early July.
• 1:41
  - When I got here, Spires Health was about
• 1:44
  - a $600,000,000,
• 1:46
  - net revenue health care system, mainly one hospital
• 1:48
  - with a few a few affiliated hospitals.
• 1:51
  - And we were in the Midwestern
• 1:53
  - part of the Upper part of Wisconsin.
• 1:57
  - And,
• 1:58
  - for the last about thirteen years,
• 2:01
  - we have been working to grow and integrate
• 2:04
  - ourselves, and we've now achieved $3,300,000,000
• 2:07
  - in net revenue. We cover
• 2:09
  - upper parts of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan now.
• 2:13
  - We have,
• 2:15
  - 18 hospitals and a 130
• 2:17
  - clinics.
• 2:18
  - And I think what we're most proud of
• 2:20
  - that many people may not know about Aspirus
• 2:23
  - Health is that we really when you look
• 2:26
  - over a five year time horizon
• 2:28
  - and look at a lot of the public
• 2:29
  - metrics, we are a top 15 health care
• 2:32
  - our top 15% health care system in the
• 2:34
  - country. When you look at our inpatient quality,
• 2:36
  - our outpatient quality,
• 2:38
  - our service metrics,
• 2:40
  - our growth and our financial metrics, and when
• 2:42
  - we try to look at some of our
• 2:44
  - people metrics, they're not as public. But we,
• 2:47
  - from what we can gain,
• 2:48
  - some knowledge on, we have some very strong
• 2:50
  - people metrics as well. So our organization has
• 2:53
  - had a phenomenal year recently,
• 2:55
  - on a continuation of a number of great
• 2:58
  - years, and we just ended with a 5%
• 3:00
  - operating margin and met many of our goals
• 3:02
  - in our five pillars I just described.
• 3:06
  - So so simply remarkable.
• 3:08
  - And talk a little about your career path.
• 3:11
  - I know you were a Dartmouth undergraduate,
• 3:13
  - then went to the University of Michigan, which
• 3:16
  - we try try never to allow anybody to
• 3:18
  - talk about, but a great institution.
• 3:21
  - But but talk about your career path from
• 3:23
  - you sort of a bachelor's in government studies
• 3:25
  - in
• 3:26
  - college,
• 3:27
  - obviously, a great student.
• 3:29
  - Talk a bit about your career path and
• 3:31
  - how you you ended up in the health
• 3:33
  - care area. Did you always wanna be in
• 3:35
  - health care? You know, what was the evolution
• 3:37
  - of your career?
• 3:39
  - I think the first thing,
• 3:41
  - that I reflected on as a younger person
• 3:44
  - was,
• 3:45
  - kinda what was my strengths? What did I
• 3:48
  - see that I like to do?
• 3:50
  - And when you're about 18, 19 years old,
• 3:54
  - you aren't sure exactly, but I at least
• 3:56
  - formulated that I wanted to be in business,
• 3:59
  - and I wanted to learn
• 4:02
  - how people thought and how things worked. So
• 4:05
  - I went to Dartmouth,
• 4:06
  - as an undergrad to really just learn how
• 4:09
  - to solve problems
• 4:10
  - and think. And, my government major
• 4:13
  - was, I think, a foundation for me to
• 4:16
  - see how,
• 4:17
  - things worked and how our government worked and
• 4:19
  - how other governments worked. And it was really
• 4:22
  - helpful for me to get that foundation,
• 4:24
  - but I realized it wasn't gonna be the
• 4:26
  - full foundation I needed for a business background
• 4:29
  - that I was interested in. And I wasn't
• 4:31
  - sure exactly where I wanted to have that
• 4:32
  - business background, but I know I needed
• 4:34
  - to build out my business skills. So I
• 4:36
  - went into banking for four years in Michigan,
• 4:39
  - where I met my lovely wife.
• 4:41
  - Her sister introduced us. She worked at the
• 4:43
  - bank I was at.
• 4:44
  - And I then ended up at University of
• 4:47
  - Michigan because I knew I wanted to build
• 4:49
  - out my education on business,
• 4:53
  - University of Michigan for two years for MBA.
• 4:55
  - And then at that point, I started to
• 4:57
  - say, now where do I wanna do that
• 4:59
  - business? Where do I want to take the
• 5:01
  - skills that I'm building and use them? And
• 5:03
  - I realized health care was one of the
• 5:05
  - best opportunities for me in the country
• 5:07
  - in, I think, a couple different ways. One
• 5:10
  - is I can see the impact I'm making.
• 5:12
  - I can see the work I do every
• 5:14
  - day.
• 5:15
  - I can see the outcomes,
• 5:17
  - in a very honest and true way, and
• 5:19
  - that's not something you can do in a
• 5:21
  - lot of businesses.
• 5:22
  - I think the second thing is you could
• 5:24
  - do it in a lot of places in
• 5:25
  - this country. You aren't bound by geography.
• 5:28
  - We have health care throughout this country. And
• 5:31
  - then finally,
• 5:32
  - I think health care way back when I
• 5:35
  - first joined in early nineties,
• 5:37
  - 1990,
• 5:38
  - I don't think health care has been always
• 5:40
  - the most progressive.
• 5:41
  - So I saw this as an opportunity
• 5:44
  - with my desire to make an impact for
• 5:46
  - me to be able to get in an
• 5:48
  - industry where,
• 5:49
  - maybe hasn't been as progressive as it needed
• 5:51
  - to be, and I could hopefully influence it
• 5:53
  - and make a difference at a scale and
• 5:57
  - a rate of change that, maybe couldn't do
• 5:59
  - in some other industries.
• 6:01
  - No. So so it'll be fantastic. I'm gonna
• 6:04
  - ask you one question there, and then I
• 6:06
  - wanna I wanna ask you about,
• 6:08
  - let's say, three things that you're particularly proud
• 6:11
  - of with respect to Aspirus. And and I've
• 6:13
  - been up to Aspirus back in the day.
• 6:15
  - Great system. Love it. I've spent a lot
• 6:17
  - of time in Wisconsin being an Illinois native
• 6:20
  - and and actually love the state even though
• 6:22
  - they don't necessarily return that love all the
• 6:24
  - time. But but talk about for a second.
• 6:27
  - First, any advice you would give to young
• 6:29
  - leaders or young people
• 6:31
  - trying to figure out the career destination and
• 6:33
  - what to do with themselves? And then second,
• 6:36
  - maybe three things you're really proud of with
• 6:38
  - respect to this virus.
• 6:39
  - Okay. First, from the, perspective of leaders today,
• 6:44
  - I'm finding that when I got into healthcare
• 6:47
  - in my early part of my career, it
• 6:49
  - was almost in this order that people
• 6:52
  - learn to become leaders in healthcare. One is
• 6:55
  - how to manage your constituent base. Healthcare has
• 6:57
  - got one of the most complex
• 6:59
  - and
• 7:00
  - somewhat conflictual,
• 7:03
  - bases that you need for constituencies
• 7:05
  - to manage, I think, in many industries that
• 7:08
  - I've I've, had the privilege of getting to
• 7:10
  - know.
• 7:11
  - Then they learn how to manage some operations,
• 7:14
  - but very few had to learn how to
• 7:17
  - be more of a founder, a builder, and
• 7:18
  - an architect.
• 7:20
  - And what I'm finding in today's world is
• 7:23
  - that it's inverting
• 7:25
  - very rapidly.
• 7:26
  - So post COVID,
• 7:27
  - you have to be more of a builder,
• 7:29
  - a founder, and an architect
• 7:30
  - mindset with operational rigor while you manage your
• 7:34
  - constituents. And it's almost an inverse to that
• 7:37
  - model, and I'm finding that a lot of
• 7:40
  - executives haven't been trained that way. And a
• 7:42
  - lot of executives are having a struggle to
• 7:45
  - make that flip. And,
• 7:47
  - what I've learned and what I think has
• 7:49
  - helped me make that flip
• 7:50
  - is you gotta have a diverse background,
• 7:53
  - diverse experiences, be it outside of health care,
• 7:56
  - inside of health care. You have it to
• 7:58
  - have an inquisitive mind, and you can't count
• 8:02
  - on,
• 8:03
  - always being
• 8:05
  - brought in to the same company, being a
• 8:07
  - fellow, getting developed. You have to develop yourself.
• 8:10
  - And you have to, make sure you have
• 8:12
  - a career plan,
• 8:13
  - reflect on your career plan, and go and
• 8:16
  - say, well, maybe I'm gonna take a parallel
• 8:17
  - job, but I'm gonna go to that specific
• 8:19
  - company or a specific job that's gonna give
• 8:22
  - me this developmental skill I need. I don't
• 8:25
  - see
• 8:26
  - that happening enough right now, and I see
• 8:28
  - as we recruit that that is a big
• 8:30
  - challenge for our industry. If the changes that
• 8:32
  - we're gonna maybe talk about today continue like
• 8:35
  - they are, we're gonna need to have leaders
• 8:37
  - who can make those changes
• 8:39
  - and and kind of invert their mindset a
• 8:41
  - little bit. Your point is is so well
• 8:44
  - taken.
• 8:45
  - This concept that sometimes you got it it's
• 8:49
  - much more important
• 8:51
  - to get that growth in development and opportunities
• 8:55
  - than another dollar in salary. And, of course,
• 8:58
  - that's particularly true if you're making enough money
• 9:00
  - to support your family.
• 9:02
  - But when I see people
• 9:03
  - chase in many of these professions
• 9:05
  - an extra 10,000
• 9:07
  - versus a better institution to be at or
• 9:09
  - the better learning experience. I think they're making
• 9:11
  - a very bad move, far better off to
• 9:14
  - learn, to grow, to develop, to be with
• 9:16
  - great people where you could thrive than they
• 9:18
  - make a few extra dollars. And, again, that's
• 9:21
  - obviously an easier point at, let's say, more
• 9:23
  - than 100,000 a year in income, a harder
• 9:25
  - point if you're barely trying to take care
• 9:27
  - of your family. But I agree with that
• 9:30
  - so strongly. I cannot even tell you. And
• 9:32
  - we see so much that, particularly young professionals,
• 9:35
  - some that are so good about focusing themselves
• 9:37
  - on where will I grow and learn and
• 9:39
  - stay enough years to learn and grow, and
• 9:41
  - others that are looking for that last dollar.
• 9:43
  - And there's some combination of the two that's
• 9:45
  - the right balance, but I I do think
• 9:47
  - what you're saying is so right on.
• 9:50
  - Okay. And then,
• 9:52
  - I think to your next question
• 9:55
  - about what I'm most proud of is,
• 9:58
  - I would say,
• 10:00
  - I've had a very privileged
• 10:03
  - opportunity,
• 10:04
  - and I've asked,
• 10:06
  - for this opportunity,
• 10:08
  - from God a long time ago and said,
• 10:10
  - if I ever get a chance, I really
• 10:12
  - wanna get an organization where I could help
• 10:15
  - make a change and a difference. And I
• 10:17
  - was given the opportunity when I first got
• 10:19
  - here with Aspirus
• 10:20
  - because it was a $600,000,000
• 10:23
  - single hospital with a few few affiliates,
• 10:26
  - and it was considered the the second or
• 10:29
  - third place within our market.
• 10:32
  - And,
• 10:33
  - we've been able to
• 10:35
  - take some of my learnings over my twenty
• 10:37
  - plus years before I came here, some of
• 10:39
  - my theories, some of the things I've always
• 10:41
  - wanted to do, some things that I saw
• 10:43
  - bosses do that I wanted to do,
• 10:45
  - and do better, and some things
• 10:48
  - that
• 10:49
  - I saw bosses do that I didn't think
• 10:51
  - were,
• 10:52
  - that great. And some things that were I
• 10:53
  - was, well, I gotta follow-up on what they
• 10:56
  - did and do the same thing. I got
• 10:57
  - a chance to put all that together and
• 11:00
  - use it to help make Aspirus what it
• 11:02
  - is today. And so to go from those
• 11:03
  - humble beginnings of 600,000,000
• 11:06
  - and be able to get our organization to
• 11:08
  - where it is, and not just be bigger,
• 11:10
  - but to be better for our communities, more
• 11:12
  - integrated,
• 11:13
  - to be
• 11:14
  - a a a top 15%
• 11:16
  - company in health care across this country, I
• 11:18
  - think is a is one of my best,
• 11:21
  - and most proud moments for us as an
• 11:23
  - organization and my ability to contribute to that.
• 11:25
  - Just to stop you on that for a
• 11:27
  - second. How nice is that? And you've had
• 11:29
  - the energy to persevere with these choices and
• 11:31
  - things you've tried and I'm sure, recognize
• 11:34
  - what's going great, what's not. But how nice
• 11:36
  - is that to have that opportunity over a
• 11:38
  - long period of time with a supportive community
• 11:41
  - and, obviously, you and your team have delivered
• 11:43
  - great results so you get the you get
• 11:45
  - the flexibility
• 11:46
  - to keep doing things and trying this. How
• 11:48
  - great an opportunity is that? Just comment on
• 11:50
  - the greatness of that chance to have that
• 11:52
  - chance to do that.
• 11:54
  - I would say
• 11:55
  - it's almost
• 11:56
  - something you can't even imagine how great it
• 11:59
  - is because
• 12:00
  - it makes your job act to what you
• 12:02
  - said. It's a job is,
• 12:04
  - about getting paid. I'm not gonna deny pay
• 12:06
  - is important to us all, but it's about
• 12:08
  - doing something more in this world than just
• 12:11
  - collecting a check. But it's not just for
• 12:13
  - me. It's for me
• 12:15
  - seeing,
• 12:16
  - working with our team to instill that same
• 12:18
  - thought process into our organization,
• 12:20
  - that same belief that it's the right thing
• 12:22
  - to do to become better than,
• 12:25
  - what anybody thought we could be. And I
• 12:28
  - I think people
• 12:30
  - underestimate the value
• 12:32
  - that that brings
• 12:34
  - to self fulfillment,
• 12:36
  - both, I think, for me personally and I
• 12:37
  - think for many of the our organization and
• 12:40
  - team members. Now it's not everybody, but you
• 12:42
  - have 14,000 people across 48,000 square miles. It's
• 12:45
  - hard for them all to feel that way,
• 12:46
  - but I think they all at least feel
• 12:49
  - part of it. They feel some of it
• 12:50
  - because it trickles down throughout the organization.
• 12:54
  - Simply amazing.
• 12:56
  - Talk about for a second this this concept
• 13:00
  - of of self actualization and what one does.
• 13:03
  - Like, we always think about not busy is
• 13:06
  - bad for me, busy is better for me,
• 13:08
  - busy with purpose is closer to self actualization.
• 13:11
  - Yeah. How do you think about self actualization?
• 13:14
  - It it it with you both yourself, but
• 13:16
  - as important with your leadership team and everybody
• 13:18
  - throughout the organization.
• 13:20
  - And, again, it's not always gonna be there,
• 13:22
  - but but it it seems like you're students
• 13:24
  - of that thinking.
• 13:26
  - Any thoughts to share with us? Then we'll
• 13:27
  - get back to a couple of things you're
• 13:28
  - most proud of. Oh, yeah. That's fine.
• 13:31
  - I would say
• 13:33
  - I thought about that question,
• 13:35
  - and here's what I would say
• 13:38
  - has kind of come to my mind as
• 13:40
  - I self reflected over these last thirteen years
• 13:43
  - and as we're going into some of these
• 13:45
  - challenges that we see coming,
• 13:47
  - is how did we get here and how
• 13:49
  - can we continue to make sure we maintain
• 13:51
  - it, And how do we take pride in
• 13:53
  - it? And what we've realized is that we
• 13:56
  - have five values and one of them is
• 13:58
  - foresight. And foresight for us has been important,
• 14:02
  - but it's never been more important than in
• 14:03
  - these last five years. But with foresight, we've
• 14:07
  - learned as an organization
• 14:09
  - that it's very hard to do anything if
• 14:11
  - you see a goal that you want or
• 14:14
  - an issue that you have to deal with
• 14:15
  - in a world that is different than other
• 14:18
  - people see. If you can't take that foresight
• 14:21
  - and say, you know what? Let's be flexible.
• 14:23
  - Let's think differently. And then if you can't
• 14:25
  - have the fortitude to make some of those
• 14:27
  - tougher calls, and as you just said, actualize
• 14:30
  - it,
• 14:31
  - and then follow through to ensure it happens,
• 14:33
  - that foresight and that ability to do something
• 14:36
  - with it becomes worthless.
• 14:39
  - And I think we have really started to
• 14:41
  - latch on in our organization to, we're gonna
• 14:45
  - have some different thoughts than other people. We're
• 14:47
  - going to be a little bit off the
• 14:49
  - beaten path on how we view the world.
• 14:51
  - But instead of looking at the rest of
• 14:53
  - the world and saying, well, you know what?
• 14:54
  - We think inflation is transitory.
• 14:57
  - Now we're gonna say, no, we don't think
• 14:58
  - it is. That means it's gonna be a
• 15:00
  - tough road to haul if inflation is 5%,
• 15:03
  - four percent, and we only get a 2%
• 15:05
  - raise. So then we're gonna have some tough
• 15:07
  - choices to make, and it's not gonna go
• 15:09
  - away, and we're gonna have these tough choices
• 15:10
  - every year. So when you tell an organization
• 15:13
  - that, and everybody's hearing inflation's transitory, you're gonna
• 15:16
  - have to get the organization to agree,
• 15:18
  - to understand,
• 15:20
  - to wanna do something about it, make those
• 15:22
  - tough calls, follow through. But when you do
• 15:25
  - it, and then the world turns out the
• 15:26
  - way you just thought it would be, the
• 15:28
  - organization feels pride, it feels success, and then
• 15:31
  - it builds on itself. So I think self
• 15:34
  - actualization
• 15:35
  - is the virtuous cycle of those four,
• 15:38
  - elements I just talked about. And if you
• 15:40
  - continue that self virtuous cycle, you find that
• 15:44
  - you could start building on that self actualization
• 15:46
  - and it gains momentum.
• 15:48
  - You could not agree. And and so important
• 15:50
  - to have those victories, those wins, people develop
• 15:53
  - momentum. You've gone for 600,000,000
• 15:55
  - as a system, 3,300,000,000.
• 15:57
  - And, obviously, those are just numbers that tell
• 15:59
  - a part of the story, But more and
• 16:01
  - more, you mentioned earlier, some of the patient
• 16:03
  - care and the staff satisfaction
• 16:05
  - reporting that's been improved over the last thirteen
• 16:08
  - years is remarkable.
• 16:10
  - Talk about a couple of the things that
• 16:11
  - you're very proud of with respect to this
• 16:12
  - virus.
• 16:14
  - I would say, first of all, I'm proud
• 16:16
  - of the fact that we've been able to
• 16:17
  - get to where we are, become that top
• 16:20
  - 50 in health care system,
• 16:21
  - and be able to use that foresight in
• 16:24
  - the way we just talked about and to
• 16:26
  - continuously
• 16:28
  - produce consistent performance
• 16:31
  - over these years. And we never lost money,
• 16:34
  - even with, the CARES money taken out, we
• 16:37
  - were able to always stay a couple years
• 16:39
  - ahead of that curve of of finding the
• 16:42
  - problems and solving them.
• 16:43
  - I I would say the thing I'm also
• 16:46
  - most proud of is
• 16:49
  - when you look at
• 16:51
  - culture.
• 16:52
  - Culture
• 16:54
  - has historically, pre 2020,
• 16:56
  - been
• 16:57
  - generic. We gotta make sure our culture's solid,
• 17:00
  - our people are behind us, we have good
• 17:02
  - engagement.
• 17:04
  - I'm finding
• 17:05
  - that culture is changing in today's environment. What
• 17:08
  - definition of culture means to us
• 17:11
  - is becoming harder to achieve.
• 17:13
  - But if it is working effectively, it improves
• 17:16
  - that flywheel we just talked about. And what
• 17:18
  - I'm most proud of is we've been able
• 17:20
  - to do that with our culture
• 17:22
  - and been able to make sure it helps
• 17:25
  - support that flywheel.
• 17:26
  - And what that means in a high level
• 17:29
  - is your culture has to take all the
• 17:32
  - angst in the world out there, all the
• 17:34
  - noise,
• 17:35
  - all that hyper communication,
• 17:38
  - and somehow
• 17:39
  - have your employees turn it off when they
• 17:42
  - come in,
• 17:43
  - work as a team,
• 17:45
  - not lead the organization,
• 17:47
  - and go out there into that hyper polarized
• 17:49
  - world and go and say and do something
• 17:51
  - that then drags your brand and everything that
• 17:53
  - your organizations work to create. That is becoming
• 17:56
  - harder and harder
• 17:58
  - post COVID. And to me, that's been a
• 18:00
  - very strong success for us. And I knock
• 18:03
  - on wood that we can continue to maintain
• 18:05
  - it because it's a day by day effort.
• 18:07
  - Because when you have that working, then you
• 18:09
  - tie it to that flywheel
• 18:11
  - of foresight and the actions,
• 18:13
  - you don't have any side tracking or any
• 18:17
  - distractions
• 18:18
  - for you to be able to achieve your
• 18:19
  - success.
• 18:21
  - Thank you very, very much. And I'm gonna
• 18:22
  - ask you two other questions. And again, I
• 18:25
  - have a bias,
• 18:26
  - but but I've never understood
• 18:29
  - what the term fib means. Did you grow
• 18:31
  - up in Wisconsin, Matt? Are you a Wisconsin
• 18:33
  - native or no? No. I'm not a Wisconsin
• 18:35
  - native. So so you're probably not familiar
• 18:39
  - with the term fib that Wisconsinites
• 18:41
  - sometimes use to describe
• 18:43
  - Illinoisans,
• 18:43
  - or are you familiar?
• 18:45
  - Nope. I I I'm going to any
• 18:47
  - Wisconsin,
• 18:48
  - Illinois,
• 18:50
  - how would you say, back and forth. I'm
• 18:52
  - I'm neutral. I'm out of it even though
• 18:54
  - I've been here thirteen years.
• 18:56
  - There you go. I I've spent so much
• 18:58
  - time in Wisconsin,
• 18:59
  - worked a lot up in Green Bay and
• 19:02
  - other areas, and and love the state. There's
• 19:05
  - a phrase that they use for Illinois people.
• 19:07
  - If you're a native Wisconsinite,
• 19:10
  - which is the f word is the f
• 19:12
  - word to start with, and then Illinois is
• 19:15
  - Illinois, and and the b word is bastards.
• 19:18
  - You know? And and I find it very
• 19:20
  - offensive that Wisconsin will talk about Illinois people
• 19:23
  - like that. But but let me ask you
• 19:25
  - another question. Yeah. Do you remember
• 19:28
  - and and and, Matt, I'll, yeah, I'll see
• 19:30
  - if you're game for this. Do you remember
• 19:32
  - when the University of Michigan
• 19:34
  - was a great academic and athletic institution?
• 19:37
  - Yes. And if you're going down the recent,
• 19:40
  - football stuff?
• 19:42
  - You almost anything. We joke about the University
• 19:44
  - of Michigan because we grew up going to
• 19:46
  - University of Illinois. And if you went to
• 19:47
  - University of Illinois,
• 19:49
  - you you sort of, you you sort of
• 19:51
  - thought of Michigan as a rival,
• 19:53
  - and Michigan thought of you as irrelevant. So
• 19:55
  - so we joke about the University of Michigan,
• 19:58
  - but a great, great institution. It is what
• 20:00
  - it is. Yeah. Well, I I found,
• 20:03
  - when I was at Michigan,
• 20:05
  - there is and and sadly,
• 20:08
  - the decline of the rivalries,
• 20:10
  - I think, with the new way the playoffs
• 20:12
  - are going, it kinda taking some of that,
• 20:14
  - you know, Illinois wants to be considered a
• 20:17
  - rival. Michigan considers Ohio State a rival. Some
• 20:19
  - of those are starting to all ultimately die
• 20:21
  - off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. But you're
• 20:24
  - you're in Wisconsin University of Madison. It's in
• 20:27
  - a remarkable, remarkable place.
• 20:29
  - Fantastic. And and, obviously, you're a Dartmouth
• 20:32
  - grad, a brilliant institution.
• 20:35
  - Matt,
• 20:36
  - amazing what Aspirus has done over the last
• 20:38
  - couple decades. I I think of it finally.
• 20:41
  - I've spent a lot of time up there
• 20:42
  - over the years and a huge fan. I
• 20:44
  - I wanna thank you for joining us today
• 20:46
  - on the Becker's Healthcare podcast. Truly a pleasure.
• 20:48
  - Thank you so much. Appreciate it as well,
• 20:50
  - Scott. Thank you for your time, and thank
• 20:52
  - you for the opportunity.