Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / MOM'S FRANTIC PLEA AFTER BABY EMMANUEL, 7 MONTHS, 'KIDNAPPED' DURING ATTACK OUTSIDE STORE: 'INCONSISTENCIES' EMERGE

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MOM'S FRANTIC PLEA AFTER BABY EMMANUEL, 7 MONTHS, 'KIDNAPPED' DURING ATTACK OUTSIDE STORE: 'INCONSISTENCIES' EMERGE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Mommy's frantic please after baby Emmanuel, just seven months old,
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Speaker 2: is kidnapped during an attack outside a sporting good store tonight,
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Speaker 2: inconsistencies emerge that bothers me when LA law enforcement tells
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Speaker 2: me there are inconsistencies, I'm just telling you right now,
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Speaker 2: we got a problem. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 3: San Bernardino. Mom arrives at a sporting goods store on
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Speaker 3: a quiet Thursday evening with her infant son, Emmanuel, but
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Speaker 3: minutes later, a violent attack unfolds in the store parking
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Speaker 3: lot and baby Emmanuel is gone.
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Speaker 2: What happened to baby Emmanuel just seven months old?
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Speaker 1: Control room? I would like to see some shots of
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Speaker 1: this baby.
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Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the
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Speaker 2: whereabouts of this beautiful child.
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Speaker 1: Beautiful?
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Speaker 2: How many people across our country would give their it
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Speaker 2: to have a baby, People struggling to have babies, people
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Speaker 2: that want another baby, people that attached to this baby
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Speaker 2: and want to raise the baby, that.
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Speaker 1: Pay tens of thousands of dollars. Where is a manual?
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Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything?
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Speaker 2: Nine zero nine three eight seven eight three one three
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Speaker 2: repeat nine zero nine three eight seven eight three one three.
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Speaker 2: As we like to say in the low time, is
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Speaker 2: of the essence. In other words, every minute counts. Joining
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Speaker 2: me in All Star panel to make sense of what
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Speaker 2: we know right now, But first.
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Speaker 1: Listen to this.
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Speaker 4: Seventy miles east of Los Angeles in Ukaipa, Rebecca Harrow
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Speaker 4: steps done needs a new mouthpiece for football. She heads
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Speaker 4: to a sporting good store with seven month old Emmanuel.
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Speaker 4: Rebecca Harrow realizes baby Emmanuel dirtied his diaper, and she
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Speaker 4: prepares to change his diaper before going into the store.
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Speaker 4: Rebecca Horrow places baby Emmanuel next to his car seat
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Speaker 4: to change his diaper. When she hears a man say
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Speaker 4: oh lah. Before she can return the greeting, she has
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Speaker 4: knocked unconscious. When she wakes up, baby Emmanuel is gone.
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Speaker 4: Rebecca Horrow races inside the Big five and asks an
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Speaker 4: employee if she has seen a baby or a person
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Speaker 4: with a baby come into the store. Nine to one
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Speaker 4: one is called at seven forty five.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now, Joy Benedict, you know her well,
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Speaker 2: investigative reporter CBSLA. She's been on a story from the
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Speaker 2: very beginning. Joy, Thank you for being with us tonight.
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Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning. What happened.
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Speaker 5: Well, we heard.
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Speaker 6: About this on Thursday night when the call came out
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Speaker 6: saying that there was a reported kidnapping.
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Speaker 5: It happened in you Kaipo, which is.
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Speaker 6: An hour and a half east of Los Angeles and
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Speaker 6: San Bernardino County. And that's when they first got the
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Speaker 6: call from someone of the Big Five.
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Speaker 5: Say my baby has been taken. I need help. So
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Speaker 5: the Sheriff's department rushes to the Big Five parking lot.
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Speaker 6: That is where they find the mother, Rebecca Harrow, and
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Speaker 6: she is frantic.
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Speaker 5: And upset, and she says.
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Speaker 6: You know what, my child was taken, but I don't
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Speaker 6: know what happened. And in the very beginning, there were
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Speaker 6: things like no amper alert was issued, right there weren't
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Speaker 6: any there wasn't any security video for the Sheriff's department.
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Speaker 7: To go on.
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Speaker 2: Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, Joy, Benedette,
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Speaker 2: you've got me drinking from the fire hydra here. And
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Speaker 2: I know from missing people cases, especially children, every detailed
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Speaker 2: count and you have the facts.
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Speaker 1: Guy's Joy has.
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Speaker 2: Been on the case since baby Emmanuel was first reported missing.
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Speaker 1: Tonight. Where is this baby? Did it go down the
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Speaker 1: way we're being told?
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Speaker 2: Also with me, in addition to Benedict, is a longtime colleague,
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Speaker 2: Brian Fitzgibbons. Brian the director of Operations at USPA Nationwide Security.
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Speaker 2: He leads a team of investigator specializing in finding missing
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Speaker 2: people at uspasecurity dot Com.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Brian, thank you for being with us tonight.
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Speaker 2: I want to quickly point out we're hearing about inconsistencies
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Speaker 2: in what happened. But wouldn't you agree with me. I'm
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Speaker 2: not defending anybody. I'm not prosecuting anybody. I want to
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Speaker 2: find this baby, and I want to find the baby alive.
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Speaker 2: The mother says. Rebecca Harrow says her step son needs
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Speaker 2: a new mouthpiece for football. Okay, I'm projecting, but many
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Speaker 2: times at the last minute, I've run to Dick's Sporting
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Speaker 2: Goods or target or wherever I can get as fast
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Speaker 2: as I can get to get on shin guards because.
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Speaker 1: John Davy cannot play. Can I get on the field without.
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Speaker 2: The shin guards? Or I please guess what last year's
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Speaker 2: don't fit? We didn't replace them in time. All sorts
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Speaker 2: of things happen at the last minute. Okay, So maybe
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Speaker 2: I'm projecting, but I get it. And also this would
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Speaker 2: be hard to fake because if there is a football practice, right,
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Speaker 2: that's easily verified. If he didn't have a mouthpiece, that's
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Speaker 2: easily verified. But it ends right there because she never
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Speaker 2: goes in to buy the mouthpiece. But those facts can
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Speaker 2: be verified, can they not? Fitzgibbons.
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Speaker 8: Absolutely, You're bringing in other witnesses that are going to
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Speaker 8: be able to corroborate and validate what the mother is saying.
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Speaker 8: Was the child allowed to enter the field if the
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Speaker 8: answers know from the coach he didn't have his mouthpiece?
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Speaker 8: You know, now we can verify that that piece of
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Speaker 8: the story at least was true.
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Speaker 1: And I'm guessing.
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Speaker 2: I'm guessing that other people were there and saw maybe
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Speaker 2: a manual at that time. I don't know that piece
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Speaker 2: of the puzzle yet, but I'm finding it out. Okay,
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Speaker 2: back to Joy Benedict, who has all the facts far
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Speaker 2: beyond what I in the panel knows. She's been on
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Speaker 2: the ground studying the case. Okay, you started with a call,
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Speaker 2: a call my baby is missing. What do we know
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Speaker 2: about the call? What was said specifically in that call?
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Speaker 1: Words matter? Even one word matters.
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Speaker 5: She said, the baby was kidnapped.
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Speaker 2: Joy, What were the circumstances mommy related at that time
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Speaker 2: as to how the seven month old baby was taken?
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Speaker 5: Well, I spoke to her the very next morning, so
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Speaker 5: I spoke to her at the Big Five.
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Speaker 6: She agreed to do in view with us because at
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Speaker 6: that time she was frantically searching for a child. And
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Speaker 6: what she told me in that interview was that she
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Speaker 6: had left the park with her step son and left
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Speaker 6: their two year old daughter with the father to go
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Speaker 6: and get that mouthguard from the Big five parking lot
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Speaker 6: not too far away in Ukaipa, which is about an
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Speaker 6: hour and a half east of Los Angeles and San
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Speaker 6: Bernadi County, And she had gone to the parking lot,
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Speaker 6: and she said when she got out of their pickup
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Speaker 6: truck from the front seat and went to grab her
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Speaker 6: baby in the back seat, she said she could smell
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Speaker 6: that his diaper needed changing, so she laid him there
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Speaker 6: on the back seat behind the driver's side door, because
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Speaker 6: she said she was on the driver's side and she
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Speaker 6: started to change her diaper when someone attacked her. She
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Speaker 6: said she didn't see him, and then she woke up
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Speaker 6: a few seconds later, she blacked out and she woke
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Speaker 6: up and the baby was gone.
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Speaker 2: Now here's another fact. She smells the dirty dip. She's
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Speaker 2: at the parking lot at Big Five and I need
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Speaker 2: to talk to you about surveillance video. You were there
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Speaker 2: on to find out about cams. But she smells the
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Speaker 2: dirty dip. She gets out of the truck. He assume
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Speaker 2: is in a baby seat in the back seat. She
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Speaker 2: gets him out and then she's attacked.
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Speaker 1: But isn't it true? She says she hears a man
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Speaker 1: say ola.
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Speaker 5: Yes, that is what she told me.
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Speaker 6: She said she heard her man say ola, but she
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Speaker 6: didn't see him, and he attacked her from behind her.
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Speaker 5: But the black eye is in front and so I.
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Speaker 6: Did ask her about her injuries, and she said that
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Speaker 6: she was punched, which was one of the inconsistencies that
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Speaker 6: were discussed later.
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Speaker 1: On Okay, you know what.
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Speaker 2: Philip Dubay joining us in addition to investigative reporter from
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Speaker 2: CBSLA on the story from the get go, Joey Benedict
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Speaker 2: Brian Fitzgibbons. Now, I'm bringing in Philip Debay, a veteran
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Speaker 2: defense attorney, joining us out of the La County jurisdiction debay. Again,
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Speaker 2: I'm not defending or prosecuting anybody, but I do not
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Speaker 2: find that inconsistent. The fact that she was first attacked
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Speaker 2: from behind does not preclude then getting a.
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Speaker 1: Punch in the eye.
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Speaker 2: It also does not preclude her falling forward and hitting
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Speaker 2: the eye. So right now, I don't see an inconsistency,
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Speaker 2: of course not.
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Speaker 9: I mean, the lady told her story, and it's it's
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Speaker 9: up to the casual observer as to whether or not
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Speaker 9: they believe it. And from where I am sitting right now,
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Speaker 9: nothing is contradicting it.
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Speaker 1: Let's hear it from the horse's mouth.
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Speaker 10: I was going to get the diaper and somebody said oil,
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Speaker 10: and I don't welcome right here on the floor.
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Speaker 11: And I didn't see manuel.
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Speaker 1: That from our friends A k t l A Crime
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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace joining me.
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Speaker 2: Now, Tom Rawlings, the President of Child Welfare and Justice Transformation,
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Speaker 2: former juvenile court judge, juvenile court judge overseeing juvenile infractions
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Speaker 2: and crimes, child advocate.
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Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on.
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Speaker 2: He's the author of protecting other people's children one hundred
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Speaker 2: and twenty days to create a strong child safety policy.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Tom, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: The reason we're all looking at the mom is because
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Speaker 2: she's the last one to.
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Speaker 1: Be with the baby that we know of.
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Speaker 2: And isn't it true when children go missing, typically you
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Speaker 2: can point to a family member, a relative, or someone
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Speaker 2: in the close network of the family, and that just
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Speaker 2: goes with the territory. I'm not singling her out. I'm
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Speaker 2: not singling the dad out, the stepdad, not not. I
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Speaker 2: just know what statistics are explain.
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Speaker 12: I think there are a lot of questions to look
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Speaker 12: at here because what other evidence was available? Did anyone
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Speaker 12: see a.
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Speaker 9: Man wandering upout around the parking lot.
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Speaker 12: I'm looking for a child to kidnap? Were there any
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Speaker 12: other businesses, surveilance videos?
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Speaker 2: Okay, wait right there, Tom, hold on, hold on, Tom,
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Speaker 2: I don't think it's that easy. Yes, in theory, I
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Speaker 2: agree with you. But Brian Fitzgibbons, you know child abductors, kidnappers, molesters.
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Speaker 1: They can look like the choir director.
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Speaker 2: You're not going to see somebody walking through the parking
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Speaker 2: lot at the Big five Sporting Goods in a trench
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Speaker 2: coat and bare legs and a pair of socks and
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Speaker 2: dress shoes with sunglasses.
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Speaker 1: And hat On. It's not that stereotypical.
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Speaker 2: So to say, did anybody see a child predator wandering
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Speaker 2: around the parking lot? Yes, in theory, he's absolutely right,
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Speaker 2: but we don't know what that might look like.
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Speaker 8: Well, I think mister Rawlings brought up a great point.
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Speaker 8: This can't be a random act. Okay, you know, the
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Speaker 8: abductor would have had to known that the mouthguard would
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Speaker 8: be missing.
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Speaker 1: The abductor would have to have been waiting.
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Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm about to argue with Brian Fitzgibbons. Fitzgibbons, Huh,
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Speaker 2: it's something wrong my ifp Jackie, because I thought he
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Speaker 2: just said the abductor would have to know about the
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Speaker 2: missing mouthpiece. I've never heard anything so crazy in my life. Well,
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Speaker 2: maybe I have, but this is equally as crazy as
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Speaker 2: all of that.
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Speaker 1: Chris Gimmons, that's not.
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Speaker 2: True predators, troll playgrounds. This is a sporting goods store
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Speaker 2: where there's an open parking lot, open parking lot where
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Speaker 2: kids go in to get their sporting equipment, and it's
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Speaker 2: just like hanging out at the ice cream store or
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Speaker 2: the playground. You don't have to know the mouthpiece is missing.
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Speaker 2: Several miles away and then follow the mom and the baby.
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Speaker 2: Although that is a possibility. You could just be hanging
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Speaker 2: out in the parking lot and go, hey, whoa a baby?
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Speaker 1: It happens. I mean, let me think, wha Cherish Periwinkle?
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Speaker 2: Remember that the killer, the killer who raped satom eyed
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Speaker 2: and murdered little Cherish Periwinkle, was just wandering around. I
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Speaker 2: think it was the Dollar General. He sees mommy and
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Speaker 2: three little girls. He's like bam, target and he gets
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Speaker 2: the child under a roofs and murders her.
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Speaker 1: He didn't follow the mommy to the Dollar General. No,
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Speaker 1: that did not happen. I don't know what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: Have you lost your mind?
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Speaker 8: Well, I can agree with you that it does happen,
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Speaker 8: but I think we can both agree that this would
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Speaker 8: be a wild statistical anomaly that first of all, the
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Speaker 8: age of the child seven months old. You know the
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Speaker 8: predominance of suspects in these cases are going to be women,
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Speaker 8: all right, taking a child that's this young, all right.
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Speaker 8: The second thing is this is in a public place,
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Speaker 8: a random act.
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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Well, what I want to break down what
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Speaker 2: you just said. And I'm not saying you're wrong, but
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Speaker 2: you just skimmed over it. That's an important point you said,
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Speaker 2: And I want you to explain in depth why if
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Speaker 2: there was a kidnapping, it was likely a woman because
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Speaker 2: mommy says she hears a man say olah, and then
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Speaker 2: she is a packed by a man. Okay, A physical
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Speaker 2: attack of that nature is more stereotypically, not stereotypically, but
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Speaker 2: according to statistics, would be affected.
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Speaker 1: By a man.
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Speaker 2: A woman would come up and surreptitiously grab the baby
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Speaker 2: while mom's not looking, or some sneaky or crafty way
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Speaker 2: of getting the baby.
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Speaker 1: Not just go, you know, beat the.
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Speaker 2: Mom over the head and drag her off and get
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Speaker 2: the baby. That's a man, but you said typically perpetrated
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Speaker 2: by a woman. That's very subtle but significant point. So
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Speaker 2: explain to me why you said that.
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Speaker 8: The explanation here is statistics. When you're dealing with a
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Speaker 8: victim of that young of an age in you know,
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Speaker 8: the zero to seven months, zero to a year old,
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Speaker 8: the statistics tell these are typically women perpetrating those crimes.
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Speaker 8: You know, now as you get older, a four or
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Speaker 8: five year old grab from the dollar general, grab from
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Speaker 8: the playground, you know, the perpetrators of those crimes are
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Speaker 8: typically met. But in this case, it's already a statistical
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Speaker 8: anomaly to say that a man physically attacked in this,
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Speaker 8: you know, apparently random act to take an infant.
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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, just off the top of my head,
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Speaker 2: You've got J. C. Duger, You've got I could just
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Speaker 2: name them off, just like that, where men do randomly
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Speaker 2: grab a child. This is this is not outside the
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Speaker 2: realm of possibility. And the mom says she hurt a man,
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Speaker 2: not a woman.
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Speaker 1: What is your point?
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Speaker 8: The point that I'm making is this is beginning the
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Speaker 8: story unfolding is a statistical anomaly. It's very difficult to believe, okay,
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Speaker 8: that we're we're looking at these circumstances, and if I
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Speaker 8: line it up with the overwhelming amount of data, a
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Speaker 8: man perpetrating this random act is it's possible, certainly possible,
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Speaker 8: but highly unlikely.
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Speaker 1: And Brian, I'm not attacking you.
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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to find the baby.
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Speaker 1: You're right, the.
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Speaker 2: Desire to have a baby is overwhelmingly a female desire.
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Speaker 2: I'll give you a good example. The example of let's
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Speaker 2: see what was her name? Dy Nail Lane is one
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Speaker 2: that just comes to mind. A thirty four year old female.
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Speaker 1: Who had lost a baby.
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Speaker 2: Her baby had a drowning accident, and she went so
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Speaker 2: far as to find a pregnant mom and cut the
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Speaker 2: baby out of the wound. We've heard of those cases, right,
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Speaker 2: there are many of them. Surprisingly, they're almost always done,
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Speaker 2: I could say, always done by a female if the
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Speaker 2: motivation is Okay, again, a subtle but important distinction in
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Speaker 2: your theory. If the motivation is to have your own baby, yes,
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Speaker 2: it's a woman, absolutely a woman. But if the motivation
17:18
Speaker 2: is to get the baby and sell the baby or
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Speaker 2: molest the baby, that's a man. So until we know
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Speaker 2: the motivation, fitz Gibbons, we can't say.
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Speaker 1: Man or woman.
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Speaker 2: So your theory is flawed because we don't know a motivation.
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Speaker 2: It could be a man, it could be a woman,
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Speaker 2: and mommy says it was a man. See where I'm
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Speaker 2: going with this? Why motivation is so important?
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Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll con see it and agree that this is
17:44
Speaker 8: very possible. It's possible, right, But there's a difference between
17:48
Speaker 8: possible and probable, And you know, the statistics would tell
17:52
Speaker 8: us that this is not probable, albeit that it is
17:55
Speaker 8: indeed possible.
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Speaker 2: Guys, all of our machinations and our analysis aside. And
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Speaker 2: this is exactly what law enforcement is doing right now
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Speaker 2: as we speak. They're pulling twenty four to seven shifts
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Speaker 2: trying to find this baby. Let's help them. All of
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Speaker 2: our analysis aside. This seven month old baby has been taken.
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Speaker 2: Who took him? Where is he is? He's still alive.
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Speaker 2: Regardless of what you may believe. The only evidence we
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Speaker 2: have right now is what mommy is telling us.
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Speaker 1: Let's take it. Listen from our friends at KTLA, I was.
18:40
Speaker 11: Gonna get the diaper and somebody said oil, and I don't.
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Speaker 1: I'll look right here on the floor.
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Speaker 11: And I didn't see Manuel.
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Speaker 1: From our friends KTLA, where is baby Emmanuel?
18:53
Speaker 2: Just seven months old? Mystery surrounding the search for Emmanuel?
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Speaker 1: Is he dead? Is he alive? Who has baby im Manual?
19:05
Speaker 2: What happened at the time he was kidnapped in a
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Speaker 2: public parking lot? According to mommy, Listen, and I.
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Speaker 11: Said, as I got up, I couldn't find my son.
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Speaker 10: I checked the around my truck, and I ran into
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Speaker 10: Big Five and I asked the lady if she saw.
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Speaker 11: A baby or someone with a baby.
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Speaker 1: She said no.
19:26
Speaker 2: This from our friends at ABC seven, straight out to
19:29
Speaker 2: doctor John Delatory, renowned psychologist specializing in forensic psychology, Doctor Delatory,
19:37
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I'm sure you have
19:40
Speaker 2: analyzed every word, every mannerism from mommy analysis.
19:46
Speaker 13: I mean, there's a level of emotion that I think
19:48
Speaker 13: most people would expect a frantic mother to be experiencing. Right,
19:53
Speaker 13: She's kind of huffing and puffing, right, She's kind of
19:55
Speaker 13: like have shallow breathing. Right, There's elements that we would
19:59
Speaker 13: kind of expect a mother to kind of have, but
20:03
Speaker 13: each individual is just a little bit different in how
20:06
Speaker 13: that expression is really gonna go. My concern is that
20:10
Speaker 13: it seems shallow. My concern is that it doesn't seem
20:15
Speaker 13: like it's coming up from a well of struggle and
20:20
Speaker 13: anxiety and fear and anger. Doesn't really seem to be
20:24
Speaker 13: coming from a place like that. It just seems to
20:27
Speaker 13: be kind of.
20:28
Speaker 1: For a show.
20:29
Speaker 2: I don't know where you're getting that. I'm not disagreeing
20:32
Speaker 2: with you or agreeing with you, but I do know this.
20:35
Speaker 2: I apport over every single word. Let's hear Rebecca Harrow again.
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Speaker 11: And I said, as I got up, I couldn't find
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Speaker 11: my son.
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Speaker 10: I checked the around my truck and I ran into
20:47
Speaker 10: big five, and I asked the lady if she saw
20:50
Speaker 10: a baby or someone with a baby.
20:52
Speaker 2: She said, no, hmm, that's where our friend's at ABC seven.
20:57
Speaker 2: And you're sticking with your analysis, delatory that you think
21:00
Speaker 2: it's contrived.
21:01
Speaker 13: Yes, because it sounds correct. It sounds like the thing
21:05
Speaker 13: that we should be hearing. Well, when you see her face,
21:09
Speaker 13: her face doesn't show elements that she's actually been crying. Right,
21:13
Speaker 13: her eyes aren't red from tears, right, there aren't tears
21:17
Speaker 13: actually falling down, right, It's it sounds correct, But the behaviors,
21:23
Speaker 13: the mannerisms, things are inconsistent. Right, when someone is feeling something,
21:29
Speaker 13: genuinely feeling something, the body and the emotions and the words,
21:33
Speaker 13: they all are linked together.
21:35
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what.
21:37
Speaker 2: I was listening to what she was saying. But now
21:41
Speaker 2: let's watch her as she speaks. And then we're going
21:46
Speaker 2: to go out to Joy Benedict, who has interviewed mommy.
21:49
Speaker 2: But let's watch for ourselves. Let's watch Rebecca Harrow is delatory, right,
21:54
Speaker 2: And I.
21:55
Speaker 11: Said, as I got up, I couldn't find my son.
21:58
Speaker 10: I checked the all around truck and I'm ran into
22:02
Speaker 10: Big five and I asked the lady if she saw
22:04
Speaker 10: a baby or someone with a baby.
22:07
Speaker 11: She said, no, that.
22:08
Speaker 2: From our friends again at ABC seven Dolatory. You're right,
22:11
Speaker 2: she's not crying at all. And again I've told you
22:16
Speaker 2: this before. Maybe I'm projecting, but when John David went
22:20
Speaker 2: missing in a vast at Baby zero superstore, I immediately
22:25
Speaker 2: started screaming at the top of my lungs and grabbed
22:28
Speaker 2: Lucy his twin like a football, started running toward the
22:31
Speaker 2: front the exit that I knew of to try to
22:34
Speaker 2: find him. He was playing a game. He's you know,
22:37
Speaker 2: a little over two hiding.
22:39
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, I'm not seeing any of that.
22:43
Speaker 2: Although this is much later in the day or even
22:48
Speaker 2: day two, when she's stating that maybe she's drained, I
22:52
Speaker 2: don't know. And again I'm not defending or prosecuting. I'm
22:55
Speaker 2: just looking at the facts, because if you don't look
22:58
Speaker 2: at the facts objection in a new objective manner, you're screwed.
23:02
Speaker 2: You can't go into an investigation thinking one thing or
23:05
Speaker 2: the other. Joining me now, Joy Benedict, she is an
23:09
Speaker 2: investigative reporter CBSLA. She's been on the story from the
23:12
Speaker 2: get go. She's interviewed the mom that you just saw
23:16
Speaker 2: and the Dad, I want to hear about her demeanor, Joy,
23:20
Speaker 2: when you interviewed her, I.
23:21
Speaker 6: Mean, I thought she was beside herself. I found her
23:25
Speaker 6: grief very, very real. It was heartbreaking to listen to her.
23:29
Speaker 6: It was freaking to talk to her. And no, she
23:32
Speaker 6: didn't have big crocodile dial tears coming down her face.
23:35
Speaker 5: But a lot of people don't. I mean, I've.
23:37
Speaker 6: Interviewed crime victims for twenty five years within hours of
23:41
Speaker 6: the crime happening, and they all don't cry, some of
23:44
Speaker 6: them laugh, some of them solve, some of them don't
23:46
Speaker 6: want to speak at all.
23:47
Speaker 5: So there is no you know, this is what grief
23:50
Speaker 5: looks like. And I found her grief and her pain.
23:54
Speaker 5: I found it very real where it was coming from.
23:57
Speaker 2: We don't know, Okay, Joy Benedict, does her story hold together?
24:02
Speaker 6: You know, I don't think that's my place to say.
24:04
Speaker 6: I think there's definitely some things that are missing in
24:06
Speaker 6: the story. But you know, that's what DETESL are looking into,
24:10
Speaker 6: and they're trying to figure out right now because there
24:12
Speaker 6: weren't any cameras, there weren't any witnesses. Nobody has come forward,
24:16
Speaker 6: so it's basically her word that this child was kidnapped.
24:19
Speaker 2: Okay, Joy, you mentioned that elements are missing. What elements, Well.
24:24
Speaker 6: It's very odd that there is no security video there
24:27
Speaker 6: in the Big five parking lot. There wasn't much security
24:29
Speaker 6: video at any of the businesses around. There was no
24:32
Speaker 6: one else with her in the parking lot when this
24:35
Speaker 6: incident took place. There was no witnesses, and so it's
24:39
Speaker 6: basically her word calling the police saying my child was kidnapped.
24:43
Speaker 6: They didn't even have enough to put out an amber
24:45
Speaker 6: alert because they didn't have a description of a vehicle.
24:48
Speaker 5: They didn't have a description of a suspect. So you know, that's.
24:51
Speaker 6: Where you know people's red flags are coming up.
24:54
Speaker 5: But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
24:56
Speaker 6: As you've said on the show, it doesn't mean it
24:58
Speaker 6: couldn't have happened.
24:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's wh problem, Joy Benedict. If you go into
25:03
Speaker 2: an investigation pre judged, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.
25:11
Speaker 2: Everyone is piling on Mommy tonight, and she is the
25:17
Speaker 2: last person with the baby. She is the person who
25:20
Speaker 2: was on watch when the baby was taken. It's not
25:24
Speaker 2: her fault that there are no cameras in that parking lot,
25:27
Speaker 2: which I find really odd.
25:31
Speaker 1: Is that correct? No cameras in the parking lot.
25:34
Speaker 6: There are no cameras in the park lot. I've been
25:35
Speaker 6: in that parking lot for hours. No cameras is in
25:38
Speaker 6: the Big five next to it is a big lots.
25:41
Speaker 6: I don't even think that was open anymore. Across the street,
25:44
Speaker 6: there wasn't much. It doesn't have a camera.
25:46
Speaker 2: In it did not Okay, no cameras, no witnesses, nobody
25:51
Speaker 2: else is in the parking lot. Again, if you pile
25:54
Speaker 2: on mommy right now, that's misdirection and you're not going
25:57
Speaker 2: to find the baby ever or until it's too late
26:02
Speaker 2: if you go in the in the wrong direction. So
26:06
Speaker 2: there's got to be a dual path of investigation. Right now,
26:09
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out why everyone is piling onto mommy.
26:12
Speaker 2: I have my suspicions. Let's listen to what else she said.
26:17
Speaker 11: Who's a happy boy? He smile my kend you love
26:22
Speaker 11: to kiss him?
26:23
Speaker 1: Okay, right there, big problem.
26:28
Speaker 2: He was a happy boy, he smiled past, tense, I
26:35
Speaker 2: loved to kiss him.
26:38
Speaker 1: That's for our friends at ABC seven.
26:41
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Dave mac, is she referring to her
26:46
Speaker 2: baby in the past?
26:47
Speaker 7: Tense I think she is talking about her baby in
26:49
Speaker 7: the past tense, Nancy, when she says he was happy.
26:53
Speaker 7: You just listen to those little subtle things she's saying,
26:55
Speaker 7: and she is referring to him in the past tense.
26:58
Speaker 2: Okay, too, away, Benedict, investigator reporter CBS LA, you don't
27:04
Speaker 2: have a problem with that, because I really do.
27:06
Speaker 6: I think people say a lot of things when they're grieving.
27:08
Speaker 6: I'm not going to say I don't have a problem
27:10
Speaker 6: with it, or I didn't hear it in our interview
27:12
Speaker 6: as well, because she also spoke about him in past
27:15
Speaker 6: tense at least once, but she also talked about him
27:18
Speaker 6: in present tents for the majority of the place. She
27:20
Speaker 6: accidentally also called him as she once. So, I think
27:23
Speaker 6: when you are grieving and you are speaking very fast
27:25
Speaker 6: and you're doing a lot of interviews, there's going to
27:27
Speaker 6: be some inconsistencies in what you say, and I think
27:31
Speaker 6: part of that is just natural speak, especially when you're
27:33
Speaker 6: in front of cameras for probably the first time in
27:35
Speaker 6: your life.
27:36
Speaker 2: That's a lot of explaining away as to why she
27:39
Speaker 2: talked about her baby in the past tense.
27:41
Speaker 1: Also, you said grieving.
27:43
Speaker 2: I don't know, do you know something I don't know,
27:45
Speaker 2: has the baby been found dead.
27:46
Speaker 6: I'm just saying grief comes in a lot of different
27:48
Speaker 6: ways when someone is kidnapped versus if the baby is dead.
27:51
Speaker 6: I think grief can be a lot of things. It
27:54
Speaker 6: doesn't have to mean that a child is dead. And no,
27:57
Speaker 6: I don't know, you don't know, We don't know right now,
28:00
Speaker 6: open to find this baby. I think everyone is doutor
28:02
Speaker 6: John Delatory.
28:03
Speaker 2: I agree with that last statement from Joey Benedict joining
28:05
Speaker 2: us out of CBSLA, But I do have a problem
28:08
Speaker 2: referring to a mom and dad referring to the baby
28:12
Speaker 2: in the past tense. When I'm trying to find the baby.
28:15
Speaker 2: They're volunteers trying to find the baby. It's very reminiscent
28:20
Speaker 2: of other individuals that have referred to missing people in
28:25
Speaker 2: the past tense. I'm referring specifically to Scott Peterson who
28:29
Speaker 2: went on National TV and referred to Lacy during the
28:33
Speaker 2: search for Lacy in the past tense.
28:36
Speaker 1: Listen, we took care of each other very well. She's amazing.
28:44
Speaker 8: He is amazing.
28:45
Speaker 1: That from our friends at ABC, what do you make
28:48
Speaker 1: of it?
28:48
Speaker 13: Delatory intentionality, Listen, no one is expecting people to be
28:53
Speaker 13: media savvy at the worst moments of their lives. No
28:56
Speaker 13: one is expecting someone to be consistent into when they're
29:00
Speaker 13: experiencing fear, anger, stress, anxiety, panic, right anger, sadness, depression.
29:06
Speaker 13: No one is expecting any of those things. But if
29:10
Speaker 13: your intention is to find someone, then you will be responding.
29:15
Speaker 13: You will be interacting with others with that intention. And
29:19
Speaker 13: I'll just say this, if you come away from someone thinking, Wow,
29:24
Speaker 13: they're really experiencing grief when there's no reason to be
29:28
Speaker 13: experiencing grief as a result of the loss of a
29:31
Speaker 13: loved one, then maybe you're picking up on something that
29:35
Speaker 13: the person is trying to hide.
29:37
Speaker 2: Where is seven month old baby Emmanuel? We were discussing
29:41
Speaker 2: mommy referring to baby Emmanuel and the past tense.
29:45
Speaker 1: But it's not just mommy. Listen, it was a healthy baby.
29:49
Speaker 1: It was crawling, he was kickkating, he was playing with
29:53
Speaker 1: his toys.
29:55
Speaker 11: Whoever took our sons, please give them back?
30:01
Speaker 2: Okay again from our friends at ABC seven, Philip Dubay,
30:05
Speaker 2: Neither one of the parents are crying. Go ahead, second verse,
30:11
Speaker 2: same as the first. There's no playbook for grief. Go ahead,
30:14
Speaker 2: hit me, I'm ready there.
30:15
Speaker 9: Is no almanac for how parents are supposed to react
30:18
Speaker 9: when their kid has been abduct There's just no way
30:21
Speaker 9: predict how each person's individuality is going to play out,
30:25
Speaker 9: either in the media or privately amongst themselves. And it's
30:29
Speaker 9: unfair to hold everybody's individual reactions against them short of
30:33
Speaker 9: a confession or some admission of cold ability. Let them
30:37
Speaker 9: grieve privately and don't try to read into every aspect
30:40
Speaker 9: of what they're saying and how they present. Otherwise, we
30:44
Speaker 9: tend to taint future jury pools into not believing anybody
30:48
Speaker 9: and nobody will ever report a missing child.
30:51
Speaker 2: Okay, now you have taken a monumental leak to future juries,
30:56
Speaker 2: not even on this case, but the and the never
30:59
Speaker 2: ending future about how our analysis of the last person
31:04
Speaker 2: with this baby is behaving, enter tainting jury pools into
31:10
Speaker 2: future future jury trials. Okay, you know what, Brian Fitzgibbons,
31:14
Speaker 2: Let's break it down. Regardless of what Dubey says, neither
31:19
Speaker 2: one of the parents are crying. And that may mean
31:22
Speaker 2: nothing to a gurrr, it may mean a lot to
31:25
Speaker 2: a GRR. And I'd like to point out mom and
31:27
Speaker 2: dad are innocent. Right now, I don't have anything suggesting
31:32
Speaker 2: they took the baby or harm the baby. Yet, I'm
31:35
Speaker 2: just trying to find the baby, and their demeanors are
31:39
Speaker 2: important to me.
31:40
Speaker 1: If it's Gibbons, yeah, it.
31:41
Speaker 8: Certainly means something here in the court of public opinion.
31:43
Speaker 1: Tears or no tears. Let's move forward with what we know.
31:47
Speaker 4: Listen, just before eight pm Thursday night, Sam Bernardino Sheriffs
31:50
Speaker 4: arrive and begin searching the Strip Mall in parking lot.
31:52
Speaker 4: Canine units are dispatched to the scene as well helicopters overhead.
31:56
Speaker 4: Sam Bernardino Sharf's department joined my neighboring rivers County Deputies
32:01
Speaker 4: to aid any comprehensive search that stretches through the night.
32:04
Speaker 2: So it was not just sand Bernardino Sheriffs. They get
32:07
Speaker 2: help from their neighbors. Riverside County Deputies tell me about
32:12
Speaker 2: the search and Joy Benedict yees.
32:14
Speaker 6: So they did a lot right that initial night is
32:16
Speaker 6: when they had the canine units out, they had the
32:19
Speaker 6: helicopter of they were looking for any signs of baby Emmanual.
32:23
Speaker 5: There weren't any.
32:24
Speaker 2: So let me understand, Joy Benedict, the mother and father
32:27
Speaker 2: are out physically searching for Emmanuel, but the Big Five
32:31
Speaker 2: on Friday.
32:32
Speaker 6: They had flyers, they were handing them out. People in
32:35
Speaker 6: the community were sh up. Everyone was doing what they
32:37
Speaker 6: could to try and find this baby.
32:40
Speaker 2: Okay, so in a nutshell, yes, the parents are out searching.
32:45
Speaker 2: Very often when a loved one is under suspicion, they're
32:49
Speaker 2: not out searching. These parents are out searching, putting up
32:54
Speaker 2: flyers about the search.
32:57
Speaker 1: Tell me about the canine search. What happened That all.
33:01
Speaker 5: Happened on Thursday night very quickly.
33:03
Speaker 6: They did not get a cent, so the Sheriff's department
33:06
Speaker 6: deployed the canines immediately.
33:08
Speaker 5: They didn't get a scent there.
33:10
Speaker 6: I believe they also sent the dines of other places
33:12
Speaker 6: outside of where the Big Five was, but without a cent,
33:16
Speaker 6: there's not much of a search.
33:17
Speaker 2: Okay, Brians Gibbons, that's a problem is you will recall
33:22
Speaker 2: I'll just use Peterson, which is a great example, but
33:25
Speaker 2: there are many, many other similar cases.
33:28
Speaker 1: A dog picked up Lacey's scent.
33:32
Speaker 2: They're at the home, their home she shared with husband
33:35
Speaker 2: Scott Peterson in Modesto and followed the scent all the
33:40
Speaker 2: way to the marina.
33:43
Speaker 1: At San Francisco Bay. Now, if there's no scent, that's
33:48
Speaker 1: a problem.
33:48
Speaker 2: There should be a sent for Pete's sake, he had
33:51
Speaker 2: a dirty dipe. There should be a scent of this baby,
33:55
Speaker 2: shouldn't there.
33:56
Speaker 1: That certainly is a problem.
33:58
Speaker 8: No sent in the parking lot is you know, these
34:01
Speaker 8: dogs are very highly trained and we have case after
34:05
Speaker 8: case that they will pick up a cent with a
34:08
Speaker 8: very high degree of accuracy. So no sent in the
34:12
Speaker 8: parking lot, no video. We're lacking a lot of physical
34:16
Speaker 8: idents that Emmanuel was actually in that Big five parking lot.
34:20
Speaker 2: And since we're on Scott Peterson, Tom Rowlings joining me,
34:24
Speaker 2: President Child Welfare, Justice Transformation, former juvenile Court Judge Tom, again,
34:30
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us.
34:31
Speaker 1: If you will recall there.
34:33
Speaker 2: Was a lot of public speculation because Peterson would not
34:37
Speaker 2: go on air and make a plea to help find
34:41
Speaker 2: his missing wife and unborn son. We all know now
34:44
Speaker 2: is because he was embroiled in a sex affair with
34:48
Speaker 2: Amber Fry, who had no idea until then that he
34:51
Speaker 2: was married. That's why he didn't want to go public.
34:54
Speaker 2: But I want you to hear this, Tom Rowlings, the
34:56
Speaker 2: parents do go public.
34:58
Speaker 1: Listen.
34:58
Speaker 4: The parents of missing baby a manual, Rebecca and Jay
35:01
Speaker 4: Carrow appear on local news begging for the return of
35:04
Speaker 4: their son. Rebecca appears with a black eye she says
35:07
Speaker 4: is from the attacker. They're emotional pleas bring out volunteers
35:11
Speaker 4: in the community as well as groups like Uvaldi Foundation
35:14
Speaker 4: for Kids. Evaldi offers a five thousand dollar reward and
35:17
Speaker 4: are also providing an independent search for the baby. A
35:20
Speaker 4: candlelight vigilist scheduled to bring more awareness for baby Emmanual.
35:23
Speaker 2: So after the parents speak Tom Rawlings, the Uvalde Foundation
35:29
Speaker 2: for Children gets into action. They start independent searches. Not
35:34
Speaker 2: that the police failed in their search, but this is
35:37
Speaker 2: to help we see it all the time.
35:40
Speaker 1: They offer a reward.
35:42
Speaker 2: There's a candlelight vigil to bring awareness to baby Manual's disappearance.
35:45
Speaker 1: So the parents do go public and face the cameras well.
35:49
Speaker 1: Sure as I'm not.
35:50
Speaker 12: Sure that I'm not sure that curse. So we know
35:54
Speaker 12: that if the child's is actually then kid app that
35:59
Speaker 12: certainly the parents would act to this one. They would
36:02
Speaker 12: be out looking for the child, they would be in grief.
36:06
Speaker 12: But we also know that if something else happened to
36:08
Speaker 12: the child, and the parents knew that something had happened
36:11
Speaker 12: with the child, that having told a story, they would
36:16
Speaker 12: have to follow through in fact, like they were looking
36:19
Speaker 12: for the child. This would not be the first time
36:21
Speaker 12: we've seen a parent who perhaps there were questions about
36:27
Speaker 12: whether or not the child disappeared or was somehow harmed
36:31
Speaker 12: by someone in the family. We've seen situations where these
36:34
Speaker 12: parents have been part of the search before, until it
36:38
Speaker 12: comes out that in some of these cases that the
36:41
Speaker 12: parent was responsible, not suggesting not here, but assistant with
36:48
Speaker 12: either the truth or a lie here if they were child.
36:53
Speaker 2: Okay, so you're saying that the fact that they are
36:55
Speaker 2: out searching neither hurts nor helps.
36:59
Speaker 1: Is that right? Is that what you're saying?
37:01
Speaker 2: Right?
37:02
Speaker 12: So, if they're out searching because say I want to
37:06
Speaker 12: hear where their child is, that's right. If they're out
37:09
Speaker 12: searching because they've already told a worried about half what
37:14
Speaker 12: happened to their they got a follow through with that
37:16
Speaker 12: pictest story. They got to look sick with a.
37:18
Speaker 1: Lot crime stories with Nancy Grace.
37:30
Speaker 4: Police interview both parents as well as other witnesses, and
37:33
Speaker 4: when parts of the story being told by Rebecca are inconsistent,
37:37
Speaker 4: law enforcement asks if the couple will take a polygraph test.
37:40
Speaker 4: Jake Harrow tells investigators, they will not take a polygraph
37:43
Speaker 4: test without a lawyer present, and cooperation between the parents
37:46
Speaker 4: and law enforcement ends. One witness tells police Harrow had
37:50
Speaker 4: a black eye before Emmanuel went missing.
37:53
Speaker 1: What they refuse a polygraph?
37:57
Speaker 3: Uh?
37:58
Speaker 2: A witness says mom had that black eye before the
38:01
Speaker 2: attack and the Big five parking lot, Joy Benedict, What,
38:05
Speaker 2: that's what witnesses are saying.
38:07
Speaker 5: That's what some people have said.
38:08
Speaker 6: But there's a lot of rumors that are spreading around
38:11
Speaker 6: the area right now. Every neighbor, everybody in that community
38:14
Speaker 6: seems to have an opinion. So I obviously don't know
38:17
Speaker 6: if she had that black eye prior to Friday or not.
38:20
Speaker 6: When I saw her, she had a black eye. It
38:22
Speaker 6: could have been the beaches, it could have been in
38:24
Speaker 6: the end stages.
38:24
Speaker 1: Okay, what about refusing to take a polygraph? Joy?
38:30
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but if someone asked
38:33
Speaker 6: me to take a polygraph test, and that would make
38:35
Speaker 6: me believe that maybe all of a sudden a suspect
38:38
Speaker 6: and I would ask for a lawyer.
38:39
Speaker 5: I mean, wouldn't you.
38:40
Speaker 2: Know if my child were missing? No, let me just
38:47
Speaker 2: spell it out. H E L L N oh no,
38:53
Speaker 2: I would take the polygraph, I would slow down, gum
38:58
Speaker 2: up the works.
38:59
Speaker 1: Dave Mac, have you ever heard of Mark Class? Absolutely
39:03
Speaker 1: Nancy the gold standard?
39:07
Speaker 2: When his daughter poly Class was abducted from her mom's
39:12
Speaker 2: own home during a sleepover, abused and murdered by Richard
39:17
Speaker 2: Allen May, he wrought in hell when the cops came
39:22
Speaker 2: to classes door. You know what, he said, search me,
39:25
Speaker 2: take my fingerprints, take my DNA, search my house, search
39:29
Speaker 2: my car, search my place. Get me out of the
39:31
Speaker 2: way so you can find who took my daughter.
39:35
Speaker 1: Do you remember that, Dave Mac like it was yesterday?
39:39
Speaker 14: Because nobody believed him. Nobody thought, you know, this is crazy.
39:43
Speaker 14: Nobody gets kidnapped out of a bedroom during his sleepover,
39:46
Speaker 14: out of their own home. But I do remember Mark
39:50
Speaker 14: Class stood from me, he planted his feet and said,
39:52
Speaker 14: eliminate me as a suspect and find the real person.
39:56
Speaker 1: I mean, Dave, understand me.
39:59
Speaker 2: I'm yelling at you. I'm yelling about this situation. I'm
40:04
Speaker 2: yelling about this baby gone. And mommy and daddy won't
40:09
Speaker 2: take a polygraph, so they can either be cleared or
40:13
Speaker 2: be under the umbrella of suspicion.
40:15
Speaker 1: So you know what, if you fail the polly.
40:17
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that, Dobey, Say, mommy and daddy fail
40:21
Speaker 2: the polly, but they're innocent.
40:23
Speaker 1: That will be born out.
40:24
Speaker 2: A polygraph cannot come into evidence unless it's agreed upon
40:27
Speaker 2: stipulated by the defense and the prosecution ahead of time
40:31
Speaker 2: at trial, so that would never come into trial, so
40:34
Speaker 2: a it would clear them be if they fail it.
40:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna look at them, but that doesn't mean
40:40
Speaker 1: they're guilty.
40:41
Speaker 2: They could lie about something as simple as hey, we've
40:44
Speaker 2: smoked pot before.
40:45
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lie about that. That has nothing to do
40:48
Speaker 1: with the baby's disappearance.
40:49
Speaker 2: My point is I've got a problem when mommy and
40:52
Speaker 2: daddy won't take a polly.
40:55
Speaker 1: So they could try to clear themselves so the cops
40:57
Speaker 1: can move off. Do whoever really took the baby.
41:00
Speaker 9: As well as I do that the cops put extremely
41:03
Speaker 9: heavy weight on the results of a polygraph test, and
41:06
Speaker 9: if it comes to actually form of deception, the relationship
41:10
Speaker 9: becomes ad the serial they then become an.
41:13
Speaker 1: Now have a cereal because they won't take it, all.
41:16
Speaker 9: The more reason for them not to. Why do you
41:18
Speaker 9: think they even ask for the polygraph test? The cops
41:21
Speaker 9: already suspect mom. They already suspect dad. Why give them
41:25
Speaker 9: additional evidence. I would not do it, And if I
41:28
Speaker 9: were their counsel, I would tell them to sit down
41:30
Speaker 9: and shut up and don't say a word till I
41:32
Speaker 9: get there.
41:32
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you a quickie. Do you have children?
41:35
Speaker 10: No?
41:36
Speaker 1: Okay.
41:36
Speaker 2: I want you to have children, and I don't care
41:39
Speaker 2: how you go about getting them. I want you to
41:42
Speaker 2: have a baby to love, because do they when that happens.
41:47
Speaker 2: I'm not going to even hold your last answer against
41:49
Speaker 2: you like I normally do, because when you have a baby,
41:53
Speaker 2: everything changes. Oh I thought I was so happy and
41:56
Speaker 2: then I had the twins. There's nothing like it. And
42:01
Speaker 2: I want you to have that joy because when you
42:03
Speaker 2: have that child, you don't matter anymore.
42:07
Speaker 1: They matter. They need to take the Polly.
42:11
Speaker 2: And as a matter of fact, the Valdi Foundation agrees listen.
42:17
Speaker 4: After Rebecca and Jake Harrow stop cooperating, the Evaldi Foundation
42:21
Speaker 4: rescinds the reward money and ends their search efforts. The
42:24
Speaker 4: founder says, we cannot in good conscience utilize our team
42:28
Speaker 4: and resources when so much is missing. In this case.
42:31
Speaker 4: A particular concern to us lies within the inconsistencies and
42:34
Speaker 4: the details and the sudden decision by the mother to
42:37
Speaker 4: in communication with law enforcement and our team. Something is
42:41
Speaker 4: not writing this whole picture.
42:42
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's not just me, it's the foundation debate
42:47
Speaker 2: is right under the constitution, they don't have to take
42:50
Speaker 2: a polygraph and if they failed it or it was inconclusive,
42:56
Speaker 2: they would then be under the umbrella off suspicion.
42:59
Speaker 1: And I say to that, so what this is not
43:02
Speaker 1: about them?
43:04
Speaker 2: This is about Can we see a picture of this baby,
43:07
Speaker 2: the poor little thing.
43:09
Speaker 1: If he's alive? Who has him? Is he being fed?
43:14
Speaker 1: Is he alive? Do we have a chance to save him? Guys?
43:20
Speaker 1: There's more listen.
43:21
Speaker 4: Officer's service search warrant at the Harrow home in Cabazon.
43:25
Speaker 13: Law enforcement is seen going in.
43:27
Speaker 4: And out of the house for over an hour, and
43:29
Speaker 4: Emmanuel's grandmother says his two year old sister was removed
43:33
Speaker 4: from the custody of Rebecca and Jake Harrow.
43:35
Speaker 2: Joey benedict that takes a lot to take a baby
43:38
Speaker 2: away from a mom and dad. I can think of
43:41
Speaker 2: dozens of examples right now where I wish the baby
43:44
Speaker 2: had been taken, because now the babies did and Defacts Department,
43:49
Speaker 2: Family Showner Services won't take the baby. They let it
43:52
Speaker 2: stay there and die. So something had to lead authorities
43:57
Speaker 2: to take the sister out of the Huh that said,
44:02
Speaker 2: tell me about the search of their place, Well.
44:05
Speaker 6: They searched the place initially from what we're told.
44:08
Speaker 5: They also came back yesterday while.
44:10
Speaker 6: We were there and we could see them knocking on
44:12
Speaker 6: the door trying to get in.
44:13
Speaker 5: But nobody was there. And that's kind of the issue.
44:15
Speaker 5: We don't know where these parents are at least now.
44:18
Speaker 5: They're not responding to my phone calls and text messages anymore.
44:21
Speaker 6: Neither is the grandmother, as you just heard them say,
44:25
Speaker 6: neither with the organization. So we don't know where they are.
44:28
Speaker 6: But we know that they did search the home. We
44:31
Speaker 6: don't know what they found, if anything, but it is
44:33
Speaker 6: also our understanding that they took the two year old. Now,
44:36
Speaker 6: what the family told me on Friday was that they
44:39
Speaker 6: have six children together, that they are a blended family,
44:42
Speaker 6: two biological children between the two of them, and four
44:45
Speaker 6: others that they collectively have, so six total.
44:49
Speaker 1: Doctor John Delatori.
44:50
Speaker 2: For insic psychologists, it's not just about refusing to take
44:54
Speaker 2: a Polly the parents are gone. Where are the parents?
44:58
Speaker 2: I can tell you this much. They're not outsearching for
45:00
Speaker 2: baby Emmanuel.
45:01
Speaker 1: So that's bad.
45:03
Speaker 13: It's real bad, Nancy. And again it goes back to intentionality.
45:06
Speaker 13: Why are they saying and why are they behaving in
45:09
Speaker 13: an inconsistent dinner if they're in goal was to find
45:13
Speaker 13: baby am Manual, why go into hiding again. I understand
45:18
Speaker 13: not wanting to take the polygraph, but that doesn't mean
45:21
Speaker 13: you go hide away and not interact with police anymore.
45:24
Speaker 13: The clock is still ticking, and the best witness that
45:27
Speaker 13: we have, such as it is, is Rebecca Harrow and
45:30
Speaker 13: now she's gone to So Philip D.
45:32
Speaker 2: Bay, you were explaining why you would tell your clients
45:35
Speaker 2: not to take a polly. I guess you would tell
45:39
Speaker 2: them not to search for their baby too. How would
45:42
Speaker 2: that make them look bad? I'm just curious.
45:44
Speaker 9: Well, initially they were, but now there is this cloud
45:47
Speaker 9: of suspicion. Every move they make, every word they say,
45:51
Speaker 9: every action they take is now being scrutinized. And they
45:54
Speaker 9: don't want to be subject to that type of scrutiny.
45:58
Speaker 9: I mean, what else can they do make.
46:00
Speaker 2: More important than finding the baby? I can't wait for
46:02
Speaker 2: you to have a baby. If you know or think
46:05
Speaker 2: you know anything about the disappearance of baby and manual
46:09
Speaker 2: just seven months old, please please dial nine zero nine
46:15
Speaker 2: three eight seven eight three one three. You may think
46:18
Speaker 2: it's insignificant, but it may not be. Nine zero nine
46:23
Speaker 2: three eight seven eight three one three. And now we
46:27
Speaker 2: remember an American hero. Sergeant Joe Oliveris, Department Criminal Justice, Texas,
46:33
Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind three grieving children.
46:40
Speaker 2: American hero Sergeant Joe Oliveris Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,