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Digital Accessibility in Taiwan with Claire Chang · Accessible Community

• 0:00
  Claire: The most important thing is the mindset.
• 0:03
  Claire: Very narrow, narrow perspective.
• 0:07
  Claire: Okay, I only do this for them, for charity, for everything.
• 0:12
  Claire: It's not on it's not or it's for compliance.
• 0:16
  Claire: But they never think about oh, to build an accessible product could be benefit for everyone.
• 0:28
  Taylor: Welcome to the Accessible Community Podcast, where we will be exploring disability, aging, and accessibility through lived experiences.
• 0:37
  Taylor: Join us to deepen your understanding in these areas, and for show notes, you can find them at accessiblecommunity.org slash podcast.
• 0:47
  Taylor: Be accessible and be inclusive.
• 0:56
  Adam: Welcome to accessibility in practice, where we talk with the people shaping a more accessible world.
• 1:03
  Adam: I'm your host, Adam Fitchbein, and today I'm thrilled to be joined by Claire Kong, a leading voice in disability and accessibility based in Taiwan.
• 1:15
  Adam: Thanks so much for being here, Claire.
• 1:18
  Claire: Thank you so much, Adam, and uh the program to having me today.
• 1:26
  Adam: Yeah, sure thanks.
• 1:27
  Adam: So let's dive in.
• 1:29
  Adam: Uh first off, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what drew you into the field of disability and accessibility?
• 1:39
  Speaker: Sure.
• 1:39
  Speaker: Uh my background actually started in a very different field.
• 1:45
  Speaker: Um, my background actually is the color science and industrial quality control.
• 1:51
  Speaker: So in my early um career path, um, it was like more technical and industry focused.
• 2:00
  Speaker: For example, like um I supported with the I supported um the global brands on color standardization, measurement system, and cross-supply chain implementation.
• 2:14
  Speaker: So it's very different from what I'm doing now.
• 2:18
  Speaker: Uh at the meantime, uh I also teach in the university in the university um the design department.
• 2:29
  Speaker: So that was very interesting uh point because when I teach when I was teaching, I didn't really think about okay, I only teaching about color science theory and how to apply the color in their work.
• 2:48
  Speaker: But one day I just had a uh had a had an idea say, hey, let's do some color deficiency tests um to see how how how you how you guys uh are.
• 3:02
  Speaker: So we took the test and I was surprised by the result.
• 3:06
  Speaker: About 20% students in that class, they have a certain label of the color deficiency.
• 3:19
  Speaker: So that really makes me like, wow, we have a 20% student in the in the room, they they got a color deficiency and and they are designed students, how they how they how they how they work on that.
• 3:33
  Speaker: So at the time I started to observe uh how this kind of color so-called color deficiency affects their life or their work.
• 3:45
  Speaker: But yeah, so that that is that is the the beginning of uh curious about uh accessibility.
• 3:54
  Speaker: And then the the real change point would be on the post-COVID.
• 4:01
  Speaker: I I because because of the COVID, I think the the world had a big change and um many things many things are very different from before.
• 4:13
  Speaker: I realized that okay, what if I get sick or I get old, who's gonna take care of me?
• 4:25
  Speaker: Because I'm single, I I don't have children, and I will be old by myself when I'm getting old.
• 4:33
  Speaker: Who will be my who will be my supporter?
• 4:38
  Speaker: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, so yeah, so so I started to think about that, and I think they came and well at at that time there came a very good uh uh opportunity to support uh uh Francis West to do the project in Taiwan.
• 4:57
  Speaker: There uh there is the um UK project would like to land in Taiwan and is related to the aging population with the technology.
• 5:09
  Speaker: So so from then I thought, okay, technology technology is very important, especially when we are getting old.
• 5:18
  Speaker: And how could we use it in a good way?
• 5:23
  Speaker: So so there is another that that this is another change point, and think of I'm I'm not thinking about others, I'm thinking of myself.
• 5:32
  Speaker: How would technology help me when I'm getting old?
• 5:36
  Adam: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:37
  Adam: So and so and so that kind of led into uh from thinking about yourself to thinking about like how are others gonna kind of deal with this, right?
• 5:51
  Claire: Yeah, can benefit from the technology, yeah.
• 5:55
  Adam: Yeah, that's really interesting.
• 5:58
  Adam: Um so uh okay, yeah.
• 6:03
  Adam: So t tell tell me more.
• 6:04
  Adam: Uh what what came after that?
• 6:07
  Adam: How did you how do we get here today?
• 6:11
  Claire: Yeah, so after that, um that project, um I I started to do some um Liktop project, but maybe not a big step, but little projects with uh other uh other team members, and uh I'm I was lucky to to get a lot of friends who are also interested in this topic.
• 6:42
  Claire: How can technology support human diversity?
• 6:48
  Claire: So then uh so besides my own company, uh we started uh we started our association, nonprofit organizations um in 2024, and that time we have more focused on uh um digital accessibility, um um aging innovation and uh um and uh how we leverage the technology to uh benefit most of us.
• 7:30
  Adam: Yeah, that's really that's good.
• 7:32
  Adam: Um so another question for you.
• 7:38
  Adam: So accessibility means something different to everyone.
• 7:41
  Adam: So how do you define it in your own work and how has that definition evolved over time?
• 7:50
  Claire: Yeah, in the beginning for me, I think it's more accessible accessibility is more like to remove barriers, uh, like many of people here.
• 8:03
  Claire: But after diving in this area longer, I think it's not just to remove the barriers, it's more it's more related to have human-centered, how we decide a better environment for human variable uh variability.
• 8:23
  Claire: So it's not just uh accessibility, it's not just for visibility, but it's about how we recognize the human ability, it's not fixed.
• 8:34
  Claire: Just like we mentioned earlier, it's not just about them, it's about us.
• 8:40
  Claire: It's because we all have some time or some situation might be might be might be like not really capable to do things, right?
• 8:52
  Claire: So we really need to move along a spectrum, not only because of uh age, fatigue, injury, language, context, even the environment.
• 9:04
  Claire: So in Taiwan is it's interesting because uh most of the time we are when we are talking about accessibilities, it's about the physical environment.
• 9:17
  Claire: Yeah, but in the past five years, I think I think our government just put that accessibility is not just about the physical, but also about the digital space.
• 9:31
  Adam: Actually, let that's a good segue.
• 9:34
  Adam: Let's talk about Taiwan for a minute.
• 9:37
  Adam: So, how would you describe the overall like societal and cultural attitudes towards disability in Taiwan?
• 9:46
  Adam: I I know you you said like it it starts out with kind of physical accessibility like by default.
• 9:54
  Adam: Sounds like.
• 9:55
  Adam: But what else?
• 9:56
  Adam: Tell me more.
• 9:59
  Claire: Yeah, um in Taiwan we have a we have uh we have a uh regulation related to the CRPD.
• 10:07
  Adam: So CRPD for our listeners.
• 10:12
  Claire: Yep.
• 10:14
  Adam: Convention on the rights of people with disabilities.
• 10:18
  Claire: Yep.
• 10:20
  Adam: Okay.
• 10:21
  Claire: Yep.
• 10:21
  Claire: So that is uh something we start uh our our our government start with, and um at that time it's more related to like, for example, like a uh um career quota, uh like uh the physical environment kind of things.
• 10:45
  Claire: But but in the past five years, uh they they put more like digital um digital digital accessibility into that because that uh we also we also have the ministry of uh uh digital affairs who is in charge of this.
• 11:02
  Claire: Um yeah, that they have uh they have the regulation which is aligned with WCAG.
• 11:11
  Claire: So for example, like the um government-related uh website and the um school need to need to be uh need to be complied.
• 11:26
  Claire: And also that is that is another um uh specific specific uh specific uh let's say um industry.
• 11:42
  Claire: It's a financial industry, yeah.
• 11:45
  Claire: Financial industry, uh they need to be compliant with the uh accessibility because the for example, like their um ATM, their uh website and their digital um financial service on uh on the on the mobile, like app, etc.
• 12:05
  Claire: So um yeah, yeah, I think uh I think our government is is doing something in progress.
• 12:13
  Claire: And also um recently, uh just just like at the end of last year, uh we have the we have the maybe not a big big change, but we modify a little bit about the digital accessibility um to fit most of uh people's needs.
• 12:33
  Claire: Yeah, so that uh sorry sorry, go ahead.
• 12:40
  Claire: Yeah, so I think that is uh that is a good sign that uh we we we only uh in the past we only care about the physical physical world, but now we we shift a little bit to the digital world.
• 12:54
  Claire: And uh um maybe not very good yet.
• 13:02
  Claire: But yeah, uh yeah, but I think they are trying, for example, that uh I shared uh I shared with you guys last time that um in Taiwan we use a very uh common uh uh instant message uh app.
• 13:19
  Claire: It's very similar to WhatsApp.
• 13:21
  Claire: Uh so in it's it's about the 90 percent people in Taiwan using that app.
• 13:32
  Adam: Yeah.
• 13:32
  Claire: But yeah, but they tried to switch uh to turn off the um the application on the crown extension.
• 13:44
  Claire: So the blind uh blind people that they have the association, they they just send um uh a letter to the to the ministry of the uh digital affairs and say, can you help us to to let this company do not turn off this application because this is very important to us.
• 14:11
  Claire: Without this application, we can we cannot read the message on this app.
• 14:19
  Claire: It is a huge loss for them.
• 14:23
  Claire: So um digital uh digital ministry of digital affairs supported them and sent a letter to the company and say until you find