Latest / Leanne's Podcast / Vanessa’s Story

Transcript

Vanessa’s Story · Leanne's Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Season two is finally here.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure how we made it this far.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're new around here, this is the podcast where we talk about the bits of motherhood that don't always make it onto Instagram.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: The messy bits, the funny bits, the heartbreaking bits, and everything else in between.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've been here since season one, welcome back.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're the reason I'm started recording season two.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: You clearly enjoyed listening to Mum's Over Share, so you're definitely in the right place.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: This season is bigger, more honest, and full of incredible women and maybe men, spoiler alert, sharing their journeys, and I cannot wait for you to hear them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cover, settle in, and let's get into season two of Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by the lovely Vanessa, and honestly, her story is one that's really has stayed with me.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about birth trauma, becoming a single mum, raising two children while working incredibly hard, ADHD and neurodivergence.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: But most importantly, we talk about mum guilt and learning to forgive yourself for the things you wish you'd done differently.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Vanessa's story is really an honest reminder that we're all just doing the best we can with what we know at the time.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So sit back, relax, and let's get into episode three.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: We've actually been talking for I got here an hour ago and we've not even recorded yet.
• 1:20
  unknown: Hello?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um Is your microphone switched on?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Has it got a green light?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for reaching out because you reached out to me because you wanted to come on and share your story.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you've just said in the kitchen, which has made me laugh, that I've had really young people on.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're your club 50, you turned 50.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: When was your 50th birthday?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: On Sunday.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me what else happened on Sunday.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I invited my friends to a bit of a swanky 50th birthday party.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um when they all arrived, my partner proposed to me.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone got very excited and shrieked because they thought that he'd hijacked it and it was an engagement.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but little did they know that when they walked through the doors of the venue, there was actually a wedding set up.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe this.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: When you told me that, I am in shock.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's just show me some most gorgeous, beautiful wedding photos.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: But so it was a surprise 50th, all your closest family and friends came thinking it was to celebrate your 50th birthday.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And your lovely husband, Mike, were down on one knee, but you knew about that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then it it was a wedding.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just crazy.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: It turns out I'm really good at acting.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: We just had the photos through of everyone walking through and realising it was a wedding, and there are tears, there is anger, there is crazy shock, there is laughter.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: It it's oh, it's so funny.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, honestly though, what how amazing is that?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: How amazing is that?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to see the video.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're gonna have to send me that when it comes through because I love all this sort of stuff.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was bonkers.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just walked into Vanessa's house, guys, and I've seen her 50th balloons, and then below it was like a bride and groom balloon, and I was like, wait, hold on a minute.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I planned it in about 10 weeks.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: 10 weeks.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that everyone had been invited to my party, and then we just my friend said, That sounds really posh, that sounds like a wedding, you should get married.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we just went, Oh, let's just get married then.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So in 10 weeks, I ran around and got everything.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And do you know it was such a refreshing way of doing a wedding after the one that I planned and that took 18 months to plan?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: 25 years ago.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: We ain't talking about that one.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: 25 years ago, that took 18 months to plan that one.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: This one, 10 weeks.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's the way to do it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're gonna do it, yeah, just run round and get everything.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't got to think too much about it all.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you did it all in secret, all in secret, yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Only the family knew.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're amazing.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was fantastic.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Having adult kids to help you with brilliant as well.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got grown-up children.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: How so you've got a son and a daughter?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: How old are they?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So my daughter is 24 and my son's 20.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right, nice.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess we'll start at the start of your story then.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if we could go back to maybe your first pregnancy, so your daughter's the oldest with your daughter.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: What do you remember?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know we briefly spoke before I started recording, but tell me a little bit about that time.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um quite quickly, I mean I knew I was pregnant straight away, and quite quickly, um, I started getting migraines.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my hormones must have been in an absolute mess.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um and it resulted in me not really being able to work.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was a computer programmer and I couldn't really work for about six months.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it was pretty awful time.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I sat at home piling loads of weight on constant headaches every day.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, had five kidney infections with her because of the way she was sat inside me.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in hospital five times with that, and I also had SPD.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was on crutches, so it wasn't the nicest pregnancy in the world.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had SPD um with Liv and I remember the pain of it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: You just trying to even get out of the car or not out of bed so I can those physical like things like your like the migraines and and the SPD did it affect you mentally?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um it did do because I sat eating and eating all the time.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: To sort of just cope with it, really, to put on five stone.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that didn't help.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it just yeah, it just it wasn't a nice time.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember enjoying any of it.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: At what point did you kind of realise it wasn't going to be the experience that you imagined?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I remember me when I fell pregnant, I was like, this is gonna be the best nine months of my whole life, and I'm gonna be glowing, and it just wasn't the case.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So did you did you feel like that or?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was I'd just got married.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'd said that we'd try for a baby straight after the wedding, yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I fell pregnant straight away.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was planned, but I remember throwing the pregnancy test at my husband and crying, and I remember him saying, This is what we wanted, isn't it?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yeah, but it's it's got to come out.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never had a blood test done, and I was I was so squeamish, I was terrified.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you said so having blood tests and everything, I sort of, you know, had to lie down for the how many blood tests do you have to have when you're pregnant?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's ridiculous amounts.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and I had to lie down for all of them.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just was really brave and just said, Look, I just need to lie down for these because I'm gonna faint otherwise.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um I remember one day the midwife said to me, I was heavily pregnant, and she said, Just sit there, you'll be absolutely fine.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember sitting on the edge of this bed and she took one look at me, she pushed me sideways because my face just went white as a ghost.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I wasn't looking forward to the experience of giving birth, but by the time you're heavily pregnant and you've been in hospital five times, it was the fifth time I was in hospital with a kidney infection.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: You just want that baby out, don't you?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: The eviction notice was served.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't care how it comes out either.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, any anyway, it's fine.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Did you go full term?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, I was in hospital, and every time a consultant came to me, um, I just said, please can I have please oh please can I be induced?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually a consultant said, Okay, we'll induce you on Friday, but it'll be nine days early and it probably won't work.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I don't I don't care.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, yeah.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about your daughter's birth.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you were induced nine days earlier.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was induced, the gel didn't work.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um is that about the pettery they put up?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think I scored zero on that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then um they took me down to the delivery room and they put me on the drip.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well on the hormone drip, right?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then they brought somebody in to break my waters, and I honestly, I mean, that left me in tears.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that someone was just stabbing with me me with a knife, and I I don't think that people have ever really had that experience before, but it was the most horrendous thing.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I crawled up the bed, it was awful, and I was crying my eyes out afterwards.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they gave me an epidural for that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that was fine.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they gave me an epidural and they broke my waters, and then 24 hours later, having really strong contractions, yeah, but with an epidural feeling happy as Larry.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um nothing could happen.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what do you mean?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: What you mean?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't dilated.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they just said, Well, your water's been broken for 24 hours now, so we need to give you a cesarean.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was shattered, I'd been propped up on beds on this bed all night, I hadn't slept, my back was aching, my neck was aching.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd cried at six in the morning on my husband saying, I just want this baby out now.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've happily signed my life away to to have a cesarean.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: You do get to that point though, and I I you know I've spoken to some people who have been induced, and it is a rule in experience because it takes so long, and then by the end of it, you're like, just do whatever, aren't you?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you she went on to have a cesarean section.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: What how was that?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: How was that?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was fantastic.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: She was born.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I didn't know with either of mine what I was having, I didn't want to know.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a girl, and it was I was like, just let me have a girl first, and then I haven't got to worry because I've got an auntie with three boys, and um, and I was I don't ever want to be left with three boys.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so I had my girl and I was absolutely made up, and then I said, Oh, hang on a second, I can feel something.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I could feel them working down there.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And although when you have a cesarean, it's a really weird sensation because you feel tugging but no pain.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was starting to feel some pain.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So they stopped and um and I think obviously topped up my my epigeral and then started again, and I said, No, I can definitely feel that, and it's just like everything happened so quickly.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like my husband was whisked out, daughter was whisked out, um, and I didn't even realise they were putting me under.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So put me to sleep.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I then know from my husband was that um I'd been about another hour with them dealing with me.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't have our daughter, he sat in the waiting room thinking, what's going on?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't got my daughter, I haven't got my wife, no one's telling me anything.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually they were like, She's okay, um, she's in recovery.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So in recovery, I woke up and I actually screamed out loud, give me something for the pain.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know what went wrong, but I was in agony, and they must have put me back to sleep again.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second time I came round, I was I was okay.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So the epidural, I'm assuming, started to wear off, like because you said that you couldn't feel you felt pain.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've had a C-section, I know it's not painful, it but you do feel that like rummaging around essentially.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, there was pain, they were trying to stitch me up and everything, and it was painful, yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh and uh so you've had your daughter via C-section and you come home and you you spoke to me about your post-part experience coming home and you just sat her down and stared in shock.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because actually, just um while I was in the hospital the next day after having her, yeah, they took my temperature and said, Are you feeling okay?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I'm fine, and they sort of got a little bit of a temperature, and I had sepsis.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So what in hospital I was five days in hospital, but for four of those, I was so poorly I couldn't even move my leg an inch to the side because I had sepsis, so I was on intravenous antibiotics and in a bit of a mess.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't really look after my daughter for those first four days.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: You said you didn't know how to look after her.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how to look after her because it's my first child.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the midwife coming in after about four days going, Well, should we give her a bath?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe can you show me how to do that?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I uh everybody can sympathize with their first baby because I had not a bloody clue what I was doing.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: No idea.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh my husband ran around doing everything for a live, you know, for different circumstances.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you said your husband he he had to do everything because you were just like, I have no idea.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing, it was amazing, but um yeah, he did, but we hadn't washed her.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then the midwife said, Oh, let me show you how to wash her and how to dress her because I hadn't been able to do anything because I couldn't remove it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: They say now though, um, you can't give them a bath until their belly button's falling off.
• 12:21
  unknown: It's a bit weird, isn't it?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because Liv's didn't come off for a while, and I think the nurse well the midwife came around when they check and just flicked it off, and she was like, Go on, give her a bath.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when I had when I had my son, um I was in the JR again in a private side room, managed to bag a private side room.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, and literally within a matter of hours, I said, put that baby in that sink.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember a midwife coming in, going, This isn't your first, is it?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, How'd you know?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, 'Cause you've given him a bath.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so obviously you had a a really tough birth for your daughter, and you didn't think you were gonna have another baby.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, but four years later you changed your mind.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, about me through that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh like you said, when I when I brought her home, I just stared at her in the car seat on the floor, and I remember my ex-husband running around everywhere getting everything ready for her.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was really it was really hard, and I went back to work after six months because I could not be at home with her.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've since realised I've diagnosed with ADHD, and that's probably why.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and my ex-husband was like, if you don't want another child, I completely understand if you don't want to go through that again.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then I didn't want her to be an only child, yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wasn't, and I couldn't have imagined not having my brother there as much as we killed each other and we hated each other like cat and dog.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't imagine not having you know, her not having a brother or sister.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we decided to try again for another one, and just short of four years later, Finley was born.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: My gosh.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And your second pregnancy couldn't have been any more different.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find you were like waiting for something to go wrong because of your experience for the first time with your daughter?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think you sort of embrace it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: In some ways, I think you forget, don't you?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, you Yeah, I mean I'm slowly coming out of it now, it's becoming more of a memory, actually.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, you do tend to forget.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and no two pregnancies are the same.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they weren't because I was working in London and I worked in London till six days before she was born.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he was born, sorry.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And your pregnancy that time around, did you feel okay?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely fine.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't even have one day off work.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was perfectly fine, no migraines, nothing.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So then I was I'm having a boy.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: The old wives' tale, you know, two very different pregnancies.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm having a boy.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when he was born, it was no surprise.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: No surprise that he was a boy, yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so with your son's birth, you decided to have an elective C-section this time.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: What brought you to that decision because of what had happened the first time?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think because I knew what it was like to have a cesarean, and okay, yeah, it's it's not an easy recovery because it's major surgery, but I didn't want to be in the position where I was 24 hours in active labour again.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's exhausting, not getting anywhere, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I just thought actually it's a bit more civilised, too posh to posh.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll just book him for an elective cesarean, and actually it's nice because you know when you're going in, yeah, you can organise your other child.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got in at eight o'clock in the morning and I think he was born at five to ten.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, fine.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, and I remember saying to the anethetists then, you have read my notes, haven't you?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, We have, and you did have a tough time of it, didn't you?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But don't worry, we'll make sure that doesn't happen again.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I don't want to feel it halfway through this time, please.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was just a breeze, it was a whole different ball game.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that initial having surgery the first time round, I didn't want to get out of bed and they drag you out really early, don't they?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: This time round, I was like, Oh, I can do this, I'll get up, I'll scoot around, you know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Recovery was easier.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Recovery was easy.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have sepsis that time.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, you know, I knew I was doing with my baby, so I really enjoyed the second time round because I knew what I was doing.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: How you know how was life with two how was life with two children?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was affected.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was fine because the gap that I had between them, I think.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Four years, that like the golden yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the golden number because um I brought Finley home and Madison was just going off to nursery.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to the well, he was born in February, so then I would walk him in the pram and take her to um reception or whatever she was in at the time.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it was nursery.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just worked out quite well.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with him, then I gave up my job.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was in an IT job where I would have been in New York and India every six months.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I thought we can't do that with two small children, so I decided to be at home for a little bit.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did really enjoy that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because they did you enjoy it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: But then I couldn't sit still and do nothing, so I just set up a business.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Set up a business.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna come to that in a minute.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you got your two children, and around the time that Maddie was about seven, you you became a single mum.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: What was that like?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, don't you don't need to go into detail, but yeah, um you said you found that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was really hard.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I had two children just coming up eight and four um through no fault of my own.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my marriage failed, and um yeah, I found myself on my own, and my ex-husband didn't cope particularly well with it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I really was on my own.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um I just got on with it.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've just one of those people that what else are you supposed to do?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can't fall apart.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I can't just give in when I've got these two children.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I you know, I was running my own nail and beauty business at the time and it worked around the kids.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I would just I my mum and dad have been absolutely superb, they helped me bring my children up.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I just carried on doing that and running them around everywhere and just didn't stop.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I worked day and night to keep a roof over their heads.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: You said that during your divorce you didn't have much say in it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have much say in having support with the children.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was the main thing.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't get I shouldn't say help because two people have those children, don't they?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just did not have the support um to uh uh help me well to bring them up essentially.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, over the years of trying um it didn't work, my children then also decided that it was easier to not see their father.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's not been easy.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not being easy at all.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hear lots of stories of people whose um, you know, the the wives and the mothers use their children and keep them away from fathers, and I spent all my time trying to get their father to see them.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking, what if these women do they not realise what it's like to be left 24-7 with your children on your own whilst you're trying to keep a roof over their heads?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: What is wrong with these people?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: You should never use your children in an argument.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel like um because you said to me like you found it really hard to try and keep a roof over their heads and some form of normality?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find um that that was such an enormous like pressure for you on you?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like constant pressure.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think I went through a huge period of frustration that there was somebody out there that wasn't helping me.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um who was amazed.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it was very sad because when you look back on on that, you know, there's there's somebody that you had one of the best days of your life with, you you married them.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: You had two other best days of your life with when you gave birth to your children, and then it all goes so horribly wrong.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's really, really sad.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the frustration that there's someone down the road that isn't supporting you, and your parents are having to help you bring your children up.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it made me ill to the point where I did have two lots of counselling that I paid for myself at£50 an hour, and that was years ago.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're not they're not cheap.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, because I thought I c I can't live like this.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't live, you know, in this constant state of frustration and anger.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it wasn't do my children any good.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how you felt a lot of the time?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's horrendous.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was horrendous.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I rem I remember my I remember my parents just saying, just cut all ties, just bring them up on your own.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: My mum was brought up by her mother, her dad wasn't in the equation.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't know my my children need to know their father.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was just I think there was that battle going on there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's it it was really hard.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I realised then after having a year, good year of counselling, that the frustration had gone then.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the best thing I've ever done.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is this is my life now.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is I have to do this on my own.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: To be happy with that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they get you to a point of like sort of like feeling looks like like a little bit content.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I spoke about on my podcast, obviously I have very intense therapy after Olivia, and it it changes the way that you look at life, doesn't it?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I went into it very angry and very sad, and you know, and it is they are expensive, but it's an investment in yourself, I think.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think everyone should go for counseling.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everyone needs a therapist, generally.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Totally, yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's brilliant.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely brilliant.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you said something that really got me, and it was that you said I think that they lost their mum for a few years.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Talk me through that because that really when I read that, I was like, oh, that that hit hard.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was more than a few years, I think.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think they lost their fun mum.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my parents are scousers, and any of you that know what scouses are like, you're brought up in a household of laughter.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just hilarious.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: The humour up north is amazing.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And my children didn't get that from me, they just had a mum that was permanently stressed.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other thing, as well, is I I wanted to I wanted to recreate a family again.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: My children were just coming up eight and four.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be a family again with somebody to have that support and have somebody to do things with.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I dated different people.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I brought different people into their lives at different stages, and then that didn't work.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the guilt you feel is terrible.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: One, you can start feeling like a you know, a bit of a slack, really, because you're trying to meet people and build a life with them.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: But you've also got these two other people in your life that you and you it wasn't the typical scenario where your children go off to their fathers every other weekend, so you have every other weekend to secretly get to know somebody.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had no time to get to know people, yeah, because you were a mum.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't build a relationship with somebody because my children were always in the equation, yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you make a decision that, okay, well, this looks like it's going really well, meet the kids, and then it doesn't go well, yeah, and you're feeling incredibly guilty because you know the the kids have met somebody and then they're not there anymore.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it it was horrendous, and you know, and people then say, Oh, you know, well, just you know, just bring I remember one of my friends saying to me, You'd just bring your kids upon your own, you know, just no, why should I?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody should have to be alone.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: No You know, kids or no kids, like nobody should have to go uh and be alone in this world, you know, you know, it's a it's a rough life out there, and yeah, yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think dating as well was an escapism.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because then you you're you're off mum shift, yeah.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: You I can I can imagine, like you say, you haven't got that uh traditional right, you're going to your dad's this weekend, you've got sort of 48 hours for yourself, you didn't get you didn't get that, you didn't have that, and that must be really hard.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was really hard.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I did I had a couple of babysitters so I could go out, and my mum and dad again were absolutely fantastic, yeah, but it just didn't happen for me.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd I met somebody and I was with I was with them for four and a half years, and we did buy a house together, but that just didn't work.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're two years together in this house and it didn't work, umly because of the kids, really, I think, and um and so then I ended up on my own in my own house and yeah, and and then spent the next sort of 11 years really just on my own in my own house, yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to meet somebody and not and it and and the guilt is terrible.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody commented one of the kids, one of my kids commented just the tiniest little thing about mum being a bad mum, because they look winding me up about that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't cope, yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I can't cope.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I cry, I I get angry, yeah.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I can't cope with it.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know that you did the best you could in the situation you were in, yeah, yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, and kids can be terrible, like my two are dead in it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: They are the most amazing children.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they're adults now, they're the most amazing adults, and Maddie on numerous occasions says, You are my um it's a word I'm looking for, um my inspiration.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I look at you and you are incredible, mum.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've brought us upon your own, you've worked so hard, you've given us all these experiences, you're absolutely fantastic.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next minute they laugh their head off and they go, You were never there for us.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: You never they know how to they know how to wind you up.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm dreading this, I really am.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even speak in full sentences at the minute, so I'm like, I'm I'm ready for this.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to talk to you a little bit about your neurodivergent story now because it's only in recent years that you've discovered that you and your children are neurodivergent.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, talk me through that because you said something a minute ago about I had to come back to work after six months because you couldn't be at home because that you think you're AHD.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can relate to that so much.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I hate being at home.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, trying to fill the day with something I hate hate being at home.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I yeah, that was just my little two pee.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But no, go and tell me about that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think I always knew when I was younger that I was different, and I found a lot of things really quite difficult in my teenage years.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I used to talk, I talk too much, you might have realised that now in this podcast, but I've always talked too much.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And my mum said to me, you know, when you were a kid, I used to just think, Will you just shut up five minutes?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: My dad says this to me now, he's like, Give it out, right?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um and I know that I couldn't sit still as a child, not in in school, because in school I was fine, I could sit, I was a bit nerdy, and I sat at the front of the class all the time, and I was quite bright, and and I did as I was told.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I couldn't sit still at home, and my mum and dad were superb because they would get me every craft kit under the sun um just to keep me quiet, and I would spend all day, every day in my spare time making things.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also was sent to organ lessons when I was younger, so I had an organ in the house, and I would sit and play it for three or four hours every night.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't sit there and not have anything to do.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and poor mum, she'd take me on the park and ride into Oxford um most weekends to take me to the craft shop there to buy me the next craft kit.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I ruined her hob with making candles, I definitely my grandmother she taught me to decorate cakes and she taught me how to royal ice when I was a kid, so that became a huge hobby.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would enter competitions up and down the country with my cakes and sugar flowers and things like that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So mum and dad kept me entertained by they sound amazing, they were they they really are, and um and probably cost them a fortune, but it was the only way of keeping me quiet, I think.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I I remember even in my late teenage years, if mum and dad went out at a weekend, I had to go with them.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't be in the house.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I really struggled with that because that was it was almost like I felt that if I stopped, I would sink into a huge depression.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and as I got older, I just kept myself busy.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: I threw myself into work, threw myself into careers.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did not stop.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about some of the jobs you've had.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a maths degree, I went into IT, been brought up with computers at home, so I thought, oh, I think I'll be a computer programmer, that's quite maths-based.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had 10 years in IT as a software engineer and a business analyst.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I then had Finlay, and as I said, I um set up a um I was doing Nails and Beauty.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I set that up from home.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was almost full-time instantly doing that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Got divorced, ended up doing that for nine years because it worked around the kids, thinking I need to use my brain again.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: What am I gonna do now?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter had been bottom set maths in year five at school, and I had to get a tutor in year six.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: There was no no reason why she should be bottom set maths because she's bright as a button.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just got my high horse and said, Oh, I know, I'm gonna train to be a maths teacher, and went and trained to be a secondary maths teacher.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I've then done for the last 11 years.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the most stressful job ever.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, my poor children, I'm single mum back in 2015, training to be a secondary maths teacher.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was the worst year of my entire life.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was the worst year of my entire life.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how difficult it is.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, anyone that's a teacher is an apt, yeah, they are incredible.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had my poor kids didn't even see me.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd sit on my bed at night trying to write assignments, trying to plan lessons for the next day, crying at two o'clock in the morning because I couldn't write because I'm a mathematician, I can't write, I can't put pen to paper.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was it was horrendous, it was the most horrendous year of my life.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and not getting any support really.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but it is it, yeah, and it's the best job in the world, but not in this country, it isn't with the state of the education system.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I now run a tuition company, so I now um have a team of people that work for me and we we would I run a tuition company.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done a few things, yeah.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So now going back to um your ADHD, so when did this sort of when did you not when you get to get did you get diagnosed?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: You always you said you always knew something was different.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt different, I always struggled, yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I struggled with with teetering on the edge of depression.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, there would be times where I would feel so low and not know what to do, and have to keep myself busy to pull myself out of it.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I never felt like I had a good work-life balance.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've never been content with what I have, you know.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm either too busy or I haven't got enough to do, and I've always really battled with that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's only with with social media and this huge sort of everyone's got ADHD, yeah, that when I started seeing these things cropping up on Facebook, I was like, oh my goodness, this this makes a bit of sense.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm trained as a as a secondary teacher, I'm trained in all forms of of S E N and neurodivergence, and in the 11 years that I've been having all this CPD and all this training, I would never ever have thought that my whole family were neurodivergent because the training was never good enough.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: A student that had ADHD was typically a boy that couldn't sit still on his seat.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Someone that is autistic is a boy that sits there and can't look at you and he can't talk to you.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Depend of.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's my training.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's my training.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's my training.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: So my son, and he'd probably kill me for saying this, but my children are both incredible, they're both highly intelligent, they are very creative.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um they've both struggled in different ways to each other.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And my son was very, very, very difficult to bring up.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he oh, he could kick off in the street in a restaurant.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he knew how to behave, but it was something could not stop him from boom.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just yeah, if he wasn't happy with something, everyone around him would know about it, and he wouldn't care if it was embarrassing himself or embarrassing me in public.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had entire contents of his bedroom thrown down the stairs at me.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I honestly thought this is because his dad's not been around.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: My son's a bit damaged.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I honestly thought that I had no idea that there was something else going on there.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that made me bringing my children up on my own even more difficult, yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't know where I was going wrong.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had a quite strict upbringing, and I thought I was bringing my kids up in the same way.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was it was horrendous.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I started hearing all these stories about ADHD and everyone jumping on the bandwagon, I thought, gosh, this is starting to make a little bit more sense.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I started doing a lot of research into it, so I've researched it a huge amount.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: Realised that my son is combined ADHD, he's inattentive and he's hyperactive.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm the same, so inattentive and hyperactive.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now I thought the inattentive side of it being an educator was I couldn't listen in lessons and I couldn't attend to lessons, so I wasn't going to learn anything.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I did, I did listen in lessons and I did learn, and I was quite intelligent at school.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: The inattentive side of it was that I literally cannot organise myself to get things done.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't do my homework at school.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: I never did my homework.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: There was one teacher that you never messed around with, you did your homework and you handed it in.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I couldn't do my homework for anybody else.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: When I did my A level, I copied my friend Amy's maths homework for maths A level.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um when I came out of university with a decent maths degree, and I got probably the best job out of all of my friends, she turned around and said, I can't believe you've got that job.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Used to copy my maths homework.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't do any good because I didn't get it, I didn't really get very good A-level grades.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it was the same with my son, you know, he and my daughter, neither of them could attend to homework.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: We can't we can't organise ourselves at all.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's really difficult.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um running your own business, yeah, that's not easy because you've got nobody saying this has to be done.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're your own boss.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're really a chaotic boss.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's absolutely bonkers.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um being a teacher and being neurodiversion as a teacher is fine because um, you know, I can have fun with the kids in the classroom.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I'm a great maths teacher, if I say so myself.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good for you.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: But running a business and doing the admin side of all of that is horrendous.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I bet it's really, really hard.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: I bet.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yes, it's been really interesting.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: So my son and I are both diagnosed now.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maddy, my daughter, thinks that she's a little bit, she's a bit ADHD as well as autistic, and that actually makes a lot of sense.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when she was little, um, she was terrified of everything, she wouldn't even go on the teacups.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh really.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: So getting her in the water was difficult, getting her on the tea cups, you'd never even get her on those.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I couldn't put armbands on her.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't put her in a life jacket, you know, it's like, what am I gonna put her in to go in the pool?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because we went on holiday all the time, she was always in the sea and in the pool, but yeah, I couldn't put any form of buoyancy on her.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually she did let us give her a rubber ring, so she she always had a ring.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I now realize that that was like a sensitivity thing.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: She could not cut her.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: She couldn't have like a reflection, yeah.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Stuff on her skin.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think she's got she's a little bit on the autistic scale with that.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you think like discovering your own ADHD made you feel differently as a mum?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it answered some of your questions, maybe?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: It answered, it explained my whole life.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's explained my bring my son's whole life, it's explained my daughter's life, it's explained why everything was so hard.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I wish I'd known when my children were younger.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because without a doubt, I'd have brought my children up differently.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just thought my son was badly behaved, I thought my son was damaged.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't, he just was neurodiverse.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I wouldn't have been so tough on him.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would have found ways of calming situations down.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and realizing that he could not regulate his emotions.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it that's all it was.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: He could not regulate his emotions.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and any time that he felt um that someone was getting at him, or something wasn't quite right, or injustice of any sort, boom, it would just be horrendous.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you assume that that was because your husband had left and he didn't have a father figure around.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's sad to think, isn't it?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was all just like nothing to do with that whatsoever.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: So your children are grown and they're in their 20s now.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: What does motherhood look like for you right now?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I when I heard about your podcast, I was like, it I think it'd be quite nice for you to speak to somebody that's older.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Dealing now with the children that are adults.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because it really does change.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, when you're when you're younger and you have your babies, everyone goes, Oh, sleepless nights.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that was so easy.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: That was so easy.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, we've got no bloody hope.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, now actually it's quite different because they are 20 and 24.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, the sleepless nights, you just sort of didn't get on with it because you're younger as well, and you can cope with them.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: A bit more of a spring in your step, isn't it?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you always know where they are.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're the one picking them up from school and taking them to school, yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you can sort of advise them and navigate things for them and make things happen for them.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I look at what my children have been able to do in their life, I made a lot of things happen for those children.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, Finley wanted to be in a pantomime, and he ended up being in two massive pantomimes in Milton Keynes, working with really famous people for eight and nine, you know.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we went and looked around Stowe School and he said, Mummy, I'd love to study in this library.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow I got him into Stowe School.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: No way, yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: A full person read a lot.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and you can do that for your kids when they're younger, and you can, you know, you can help them and show them the way, and then all of a sudden, they don't want that anymore.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Were you upset?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a bit sad?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um the only reason I asked is because my mum says the same.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: You spend all your years, you know, looking after them and giving them all this experience, all these experiences and you know, a lovely life, and then they're like, bye, and gone.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, I think living their own life when they were younger.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: I want I wished their life away.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Always.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking forward to the next stage and the next stage and the next stage.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wanted them to get bigger so I didn't have to look after them so much, and again, that's another thing that when I look back, I go, gosh, you know, I I lost those years with them because I wanted them to grow up really quickly because I was struggling to bring them up on my own.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've always been quite a realist in the fact that I know they're going to leave the nest.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I really want them to, because I want them to be happy and I want them to be successful.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and how I would feel when they they are completely gone, I don't know.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now my son has just moved out, he's just moved to London.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: But my son also boarded at school for four years.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then he went off to university in Liverpool and off he went again.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: So for a long time, my son's not really been in this house the majority of the time.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Liverpool didn't work for him, he came back after seven months and spent quite a long time trying to work out what he was going to do.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I had to leave him to it because knowing about now his neurodiversity, I could not push him into anything.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: He needed to sink, because he sinks a lot, yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sink and find his way out of that.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because he's got to do that for the rest of his life.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a very difficult thing to do.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you've always made it all right for them.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: But you had to kind of take a step back.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And at the age of 19, you've got to go, you've got to make this all right for yourself now.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the hardest things I think I've ever done.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually he pulled himself out of it and got himself a brilliant job in London, and he's just moved in with um one of the old stoics from Stowe into London and is having a whale of a time.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he's in a city where he needs to be because he's ADHD.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's thriving.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's thriving.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's always something going on, isn't it?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas in Toaster, he was in his bedroom like a manic depressive.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's not much going on in Toaster.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Saying that he hated his life with his mother.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: What about Maddy?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: So Maddy, um she's quite a home girl.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Loves being at home.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's amazing, utterly incredible.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's so talented, so talented.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the most amazing cook.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, what she's done for this surprise wedding that I just had on Sunday is incredible.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: She's made so many things, she's she's brilliant.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but her neurodiversity that we think she has, she hasn't been diagnosed or anything, she's not really that bothered.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're all a bit neurosfinely.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: We are, we're all on it, you know, we are all on a spectrum.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't define you at all, but what it does do is it makes you, you know, me being aware now of what we are, yeah, means that I can be kinder to myself.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think I've spent most of my life being angry with myself that I've not achieved what I thought I could achieve.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: You look around and what you have achieved.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but I'm I'm so critical, it's not enough.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not good enough.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I've done has never been good enough.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I look at it and go, actually, do you know what?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've I really have done really well.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've brought these two amazing adults up that people love and want to be around, yeah, you know, and I've got my own home, I've I've got my own business, I'm I am doing alright, I've done alright.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm and I'm a lot kinder to myself than I was.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you've now got lovely Mike.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I've got lovely Mike.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely Mike.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's part of the gang now as well.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's part of the gang now as well.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: How was he how did he find it when he came into the family?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because I bet you were just you know a bit mental when he was like, Hello.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: We are we are utterly bonkers.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you're all northerners.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you did he slot in well with the family?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Really well.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Did he?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's he can be quite quiet actually, so he just sits there and just Do you know what?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: My husband's the same.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: My family are bonkers, and my husband just sits there, like, right, yeah.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: He just takes it all in.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: He he thrives on it though, because I think he likes having all that you know, busyness around him.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there are times when the family around him are all sat around the dinner table, he just sits there and we're all talking over each other.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like you were arguing, but you're not no, it's it's just hilarious.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I think I think one thing we aren't is boring, and I did say to him, You're never gonna have a dull life.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so he has got the patience of a saint.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: He sounds lovely.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: He is lovely, he says he sounds lovely.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you was I right in reading you support neurodiverse learners and families now.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: So um I started tutoring maths um a few years back now, and um, and then decided that I'd offer English and science as well, the core subjects.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm so passionate about teaching maths and teaching maths in a way that students understand because I think when I was taught maths at school, um I was taught a set of rules.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: There you go, they're the rules for maths, get on with it.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it only I realise it only takes you so far.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's only so much you can do if you don't understand what's in front of you, it's very abstract.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when I became a maths teacher and having the problems with my daughter being bottom set maths, it it really got I got on my high horse, really.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: I went into lots of primary schools to look at how they teach maths compared to secondary, and there's a huge divide there with how they teach it.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they teach it in a really you know good pictorial way at primary, and then they come to secondary, and there's a lot of secondary maths teachers that just go back to the old-fashioned, this is an abstract subject.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so the schools I worked in, I introduced a lot of the maths that they have in primary.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: So primary use a lot of white rose maths as a scheme, and and I introduced it into secondary and got manipulatives on desks and carried on trying to teach kids in the way that they've been taught in primary.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been very, very passionate about having an all-through sort of curriculum so the kids don't come in year seven going, What's going on?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so I'm hugely passionate about that, and then I've managed to meet some other teachers over the years that teach English in a really similar way, and they're really passionate about the English language and science as well, you know, and thought, right, there's a lot of kids are getting a really bad deal in schools now because they um the education system has fallen apart.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: It I don't think a lot of people really realize how bad it is out there.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you see head teachers ofstead coming in and they you know they're suicidal, and um you know, teachers are uh are running out of the profession.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really bad.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I had the most severe migraines, I spent more time lying in a sick bay at school being ahead of maths than actually teaching.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you think that was the stress and pressure of the job, yeah, absolutely.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the final straw came when as when I was driving home one day um with a migraine, I had to stop the car and throw up.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was just terrific.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, that's it, I'm getting out.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so I've since obviously set up my company and um and have had a fantastic time teaching so many youngsters, little small groups, one-to-ones, that kind of thing.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the neurodiverse side of it has been really interesting because now I know how much I've struggled and my children have struggled, and I know the issues surrounding ADHD and autism really well.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, all neurodiversity now, because I I do a huge amount of research into it.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can design lessons to support these students that have these issues, and and one thing I'm thinking about doing is actually trying to now support students that have ADHD with learning how to manage it.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't, if we can't manage ourselves, we're going to struggle in in the future.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we we need to come up with strategies of how we can at least get started on tasks and start task initiation because one of the biggest problems with the inattentive ADHD that people have is that you liken it to you know, um, the national lottery and all the balls rolling around in the machine and the balls pop out, yeah.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's what your brain's like constantly.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are all these balls rolling around in your brain of a million jobs you have to do, yeah, and you can't put them in any sort of order.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And because you can't put them in an order, even if you wrote a list, yeah, it's still difficult to put it in order.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you overwhelm yourself, and then you can't give up, you can't do anything.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you lit it lit paralyzes you.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a um a lovely way that how you've put that and explain that in a simplified term for someone who isn't um sort of ADHD, to explain it how you've just done is really it's a really good analogy.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can't you can't organise those balls in an order, and and it's debilitating.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is debilitating, and when you know that you're you know, generally people that CEOs of massive businesses generally have ADHD, yeah, they have all the ideas, they're creative, they're brilliant.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have people doing it for them.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, PAs, right?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this, and then you're fine.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you're just little and you're trying to grow your own business, and you've got to be everybody, you've got to do everything yourself, yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not fine.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, yeah, so it's it's really hard, and so that's the next stage, really, with me is okay, how can I support these students into understanding themselves so that they then can take that step forward?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's something as simple as just go and sit at your desk.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, put your phone downstairs and go and sit at your desk.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because once you've sat at your desk, you might be able to open your book.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like stage one complete, right?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move to stage two.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't think of anything else, just go down and sit at your desk.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: What age ranges uh do you it do you sort of do?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, just uh all ages, really, because I have uh a whole team, so we do primary through two A level.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, yeah, you should be really proud of yourself because it it's a hard thing to do, and the fact that you're a maths teacher, also you know, supporting families with neurodiverse children and bringing up your children on your own, you should be incredibly proud of what you've achieved.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: My question to you, because um you spoke a lot, especially when you wrote to me and in the podcast about how much guilt you have had over the years.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: If I was to take all the guilt away from you right now, what do you think made you brilliant as a mum?
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: What did you get right?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: What did I get right?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um no guilt.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think I what I got right was bringing up two children that were the children in school that when a new person started school, they were by their side the whole day.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um mummy knew a new girl started today, and I showed her around everywhere.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I've brought what I did was bring two children up that have got fantastic morals.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they know exactly how to treat people, yeah, they know how to speak to people in different situations.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and as best as I could, I worked every hour God sent to give them all the opportunities that I could.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I have two children that have a thirst for the world now.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: They want to see the world, they're very interested in history, they want to go to museums, they're they're just really fascinated about the world around them.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: They've got something about them.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like you've raised such kind and compassionate children to that's a testament to you.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you said you had your help from your parents and things, but you did that.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: You should be so proud of what you've achieved.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: And me coming in today, not knowing you, like it's inspirational to see that because you see you know these stories of single mums and and how much they struggle, and then you know, talking to you today, and you've you're over the other side of that now.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're you know, you're happily married since Sunday, you've got a beautiful home, you've got a great job, you've got a great life, and you've got great kids, and you should just be so so proud of yourself.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and thank you so much for sharing your story today.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's been incredible.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um my last question that I asked all my guests.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you could go back and write a letter to yourself in the early days when you were when you were in the depth of single motherhood and struggling, what would you tell yourself?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I would say you just have to keep going.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to get up every day and you have to get on with it.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's easier said than done.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: There were times for me where that was easier said than done.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I've had weeks where I've woken up and I've thought I'm really worried about myself here.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, one of them I went and got counselling because I wasn't prepared to feel like that and I wasn't prepared to give up.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um knowing that I probably would wake up one day, I'd feel all right.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it always did happen, you know.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, yes, uh, my message to my younger self would be just keep going, just keep getting up, just keep putting a smile on your face.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel like you've been down a bit too long, yeah, go and get help from somebody because it really does work.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, amazing.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for letting me come into your home and just hearing your story.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very, very grateful.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if you ever want to come back on the podcast, you're more than welcome to.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've loved it.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to, it's been great.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fine.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Next up, see you again next week.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're short for content, come around.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Again, thank you so so much.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.