Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #157 Jason Flom with Kevin Dykes

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#157 Jason Flom with Kevin Dykes · Wrongful Conviction

0:02
Speaker 1: As a child. In the late nineteen seventies, Kevin Dykes
0:05
Speaker 1: accidentally killed his best friend when they were playing with
0:07
Speaker 1: a gun, sending him to Juvie for involuntary manslaughter. When
0:11
Speaker 1: he got out, he turned to petty drug dealing in Compton, California.
0:15
Speaker 1: Fast forward to nineteen eighty six. After a terrible assault
0:19
Speaker 1: that led to a four month hospital stint, Kevin continued
0:22
Speaker 1: peddling drugs from his temporary wheelchair for two men named
0:25
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo. Kevin rented a bed and a trailer
0:28
Speaker 1: home in his landlord's driveway, where Slim and Hondo occasionally
0:31
Speaker 1: hit weapons. That June, two incidents occurred just days apart,
0:36
Speaker 1: resulting in one murder and two attempted murders. The first
0:39
Speaker 1: during a party when Kevin booted his friend Ephram for
0:42
Speaker 1: being belligerently drunk. Slim and Hondo followed he from stabbing
0:46
Speaker 1: him several times. A neighborhood mother, Missus Bradley, came to
0:50
Speaker 1: Ephram's aid, only to get stabbed as well. Kevin intervened,
0:53
Speaker 1: jumping from his wheelchair to stop the assault before it
0:56
Speaker 1: turned fatal. A few days later, Slim and Honda accused
1:00
Speaker 1: Kevin's friend Otis Perry of stealing their gun from Kevin's
1:04
Speaker 1: trailer home, stabbing him eighty one times. Unable to stop
1:08
Speaker 1: the murderous frenzy and fearing for his own life, Kevin
1:11
Speaker 1: helped them clean up before going to the police a
1:13
Speaker 1: few hours later. A few days after that, Kevin was
1:16
Speaker 1: arrested for cocaine possession and put into a special holding
1:20
Speaker 1: tank for state's witnesses. Then three jailhouse snitches claimed that
1:24
Speaker 1: Kevin had confessed to all three attacks in exchange for
1:28
Speaker 1: leniency in their own cases. Kevin Dykes is serving life
1:32
Speaker 1: in prison on the word of three notorious jailhouse snitches.
1:37
Speaker 1: This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm.
1:51
Speaker 2: This is Global TILLNK. You have a prepaid calls from
1:55
Speaker 2: here an inmate ent to California State Prison, Los Angeles Countycaster, California.
2:01
Speaker 2: This call and our telephone number will be monitored and recorded.
2:05
Speaker 2: To accept this call, say or dial five now. Thank
2:12
Speaker 2: you for using Globaltail Link.
2:14
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flomp. Today. We
2:17
Speaker 1: have an incredible story, so we're going to get right
2:20
Speaker 1: into it, and I'm going to introduce you first to
2:23
Speaker 1: Stephen K. Houser. He's a criminal defense attorney representing the
2:28
Speaker 1: star of this episode, Kevin Dike. Stephen, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
2:33
Speaker 3: Thank you, glad to be here.
2:34
Speaker 1: And Kevin Dykes is on the phone with us from prison,
2:37
Speaker 1: and I hope we'll be able to do something about
2:40
Speaker 1: his situation because it is awful. Kevin. I'm sorry you're
2:44
Speaker 1: here or where you are, but I'm happy you're here
2:46
Speaker 1: with us today. So thank you for being here.
2:49
Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportory.
2:51
Speaker 1: This case goes back to Compton nineteen eighty six, and
2:54
Speaker 1: it's got It's got so much that you'll think of
2:58
Speaker 1: talking about a movie script that would be too much
3:01
Speaker 1: to be believed, except for it's real. It's got gangster's
3:04
Speaker 1: name Hondo and Slim. It's got drugs. It's got snitches
3:07
Speaker 1: that ended up on sixty minutes. It's got laws that changed,
3:10
Speaker 1: and victims who testified that this was not the guy
3:13
Speaker 1: who did it. It's got a guy who's in prison
3:15
Speaker 1: for three and a half decades with no evidence against
3:18
Speaker 1: him except the testimony of jail house snitches who have
3:21
Speaker 1: recanted their testimony. It is nuts, but it's true. So
3:27
Speaker 1: let's get right into it, and Kevin, let's start with
3:30
Speaker 1: you going back to your youth, because you grew up
3:34
Speaker 1: in Compton.
3:34
Speaker 4: Right, Yes, I grew up good too, Gray at home
3:38
Speaker 4: in the pop Water Sport. I actually had a real
3:41
Speaker 4: good up bringing. In two, I think it's actually three,
3:47
Speaker 4: I ended up actually killing my best friend. I went
3:50
Speaker 4: for a CHERI mayor flather and I will stick at.
3:53
Speaker 3: YAS And for those of you who don't know, YA
3:56
Speaker 3: or CYA is the California Youth Authority.
3:59
Speaker 1: As I unders standard, your friend's death was entirely accidental,
4:03
Speaker 1: just two kids who made a big mistake playing with
4:06
Speaker 1: a gun. But they still sent you away to juvie
4:09
Speaker 1: for involuntary manslaughter. And I also understand that you harbor
4:13
Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about this. Even though the family
4:16
Speaker 1: forgave you, yes, just family.
4:19
Speaker 4: They stayed directly across the street from my family, even
4:22
Speaker 4: to the they still feel on the same street. Although
4:25
Speaker 4: the family had forgiven me, written me letters and will
4:28
Speaker 4: come to see me. When I got out, I saw
4:32
Speaker 4: what idea to that family, and I didn't know how
4:36
Speaker 4: to propter. Although my mother and my father and my
4:39
Speaker 4: grandmother and all kinds of people were trying to help me.
4:42
Speaker 4: I didn't know how to ask for their help that
4:46
Speaker 4: I actually needed, so I got de gris root de
4:50
Speaker 4: grit to the game.
4:50
Speaker 1: So the guilt kind of derailed your potential, it seems.
4:54
Speaker 1: And after Juvie, you start dealing drugs and looking outside
4:58
Speaker 1: of what seemed like a supportive home for what it
5:00
Speaker 1: was that you felt you needed, acceptance, identity, whatever, out
5:06
Speaker 1: in the street. So fast forward to January nineteen eighty six.
5:10
Speaker 1: Some other really bad stuff happens.
5:12
Speaker 4: January eighteenth, So I try to cheating them me. They
5:15
Speaker 4: try to cheat them in front of my house. I
5:17
Speaker 4: followed them. They ran me through a brick wall and
5:20
Speaker 4: he both my hit and smashed my films. So I
5:22
Speaker 4: went at the hospital eighteenth in knowledge and May forties.
5:26
Speaker 4: When I got out of the hospital, I was in
5:27
Speaker 4: a wheelchair and I had a walker, and I was
5:29
Speaker 4: all to a therapy.
5:31
Speaker 1: Yes, someone tried to kidnap Kevin, so you fought them off,
5:36
Speaker 1: and they ended up hitting you with their car against
5:38
Speaker 1: a brick wall, broke your hips, snapped your pelvis, and
5:41
Speaker 1: put you in the hospital for four months. I mean,
5:44
Speaker 1: you're lucky to even be alive, and we haven't even
5:47
Speaker 1: gotten to the part that has you locked up right now. Okay,
5:51
Speaker 1: so it's May nineteen eighty six. You're temporarily in this
5:56
Speaker 1: wheelchair doing physical therapy and dealing drugs for these two
6:01
Speaker 1: mid level management drug dealers named Slim and Hondo.
6:05
Speaker 3: Slim and Hondo decided that they were going to take
6:08
Speaker 3: over the local drug sales. I believe they helped Kevin
6:13
Speaker 3: and some of his friends with small amounts of cocaine
6:17
Speaker 3: to sell in the neighborhood, and they would periodically show
6:21
Speaker 3: up and I guess resupply the local sellers, including Kevin
6:26
Speaker 3: and Kevin.
6:27
Speaker 1: You were renting a place to stay from a man
6:29
Speaker 1: named mister Bryce. You were renting a bed in this
6:32
Speaker 1: mobile home that sat in his driveway, right.
6:35
Speaker 4: Yes, I was a fan and mister Bryce's mobile hole.
6:37
Speaker 4: We had a mobile home. They had like six days,
6:40
Speaker 4: the shower and all that stuff inside. It was parked
6:43
Speaker 4: in the driveway. Sometimes my friends us supposed to stay.
6:47
Speaker 4: They had like six places, well, sleeping there.
6:49
Speaker 3: So Oltis is coming in sleeping there, and Otis is
6:54
Speaker 3: Otis Perry who occasionally stayed at mister Bryce's mobile home.
6:59
Speaker 3: And he's the one that was eventually stabbed by Slim
7:02
Speaker 3: and Hondo for taking the gun that they had left
7:05
Speaker 3: in the trailer. The night that these two attempted murders
7:09
Speaker 3: occurred outside a party at mister Bryce's house.
7:12
Speaker 4: Yes, also, my cousin Pam was inside of the mobile home.
7:15
Speaker 4: I was inside the house where the party was there
7:19
Speaker 4: when the fighting. When the fight after, so I didn't
7:22
Speaker 4: know this was out there at the time. And I
7:24
Speaker 4: know Slim pulls up. They knew mister Bryce didn't allow
7:27
Speaker 4: gus in his house, but they here to gun in
7:30
Speaker 4: the mobile home. Well, my cousin and OSTs, but I
7:33
Speaker 4: still didn't know nothing about that at that time.
7:36
Speaker 1: Okay, so now the stage is finally set for these
7:39
Speaker 1: crimes to take place. This is we're talking June nineteenth,
7:43
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. There's a little party going on at
7:45
Speaker 1: mister Bryce's Your friend Otis and your cousin Pam are
7:49
Speaker 1: in the mobile home in the driveway. Slim and Hondo,
7:53
Speaker 1: your bosses, come to hang out, but out of respect
7:56
Speaker 1: for mister Bryce, they leave their gun in the mobile home.
8:00
Speaker 1: Then your friend Ephim is at the party and he
8:03
Speaker 1: is drunk. To say the least, is my older homeboy.
8:09
Speaker 4: He was young beingligerate and uh messing with the females.
8:13
Speaker 4: I was up in there grabbing drinks that didn't belong
8:16
Speaker 4: to him, and I saw man go down to the
8:19
Speaker 4: pool man keep back. I got and he kept on.
8:23
Speaker 4: So I got pissed off and I hit him once.
8:27
Speaker 4: And when I hit him, hand slam both of them attacking.
8:31
Speaker 4: Because of them, I here's what they see it, he said.
8:33
Speaker 4: I didn't understand why did they get involved in there?
8:36
Speaker 4: Here's what they said, because I should barely walk. They
8:41
Speaker 4: people were taking advantage of my disability.
8:45
Speaker 1: Okay, so your drug bosses are sticking up for you,
8:48
Speaker 1: but then they go way beyond what you would ever
8:52
Speaker 1: want them to do.
8:53
Speaker 4: Yes, So once I stuck both of them attacking, I
8:57
Speaker 4: got them to stop sold instantly he left and then
9:01
Speaker 4: they chased him down the street. They caught him at
9:03
Speaker 4: the end of the corner. Once I got down there,
9:07
Speaker 4: I saw that he was actually stabbing. When I hollered,
9:11
Speaker 4: Hondo leaving alone, Hondo, He's little step and saw me.
9:15
Speaker 4: But when he saw me, he saw Miss Bradley behind me.
9:18
Speaker 4: Miss Bradley is my older home was mother. When she
9:22
Speaker 4: looked up and saw that it was her son, she
9:24
Speaker 4: tried to turn and run. He ran her down, grabbed
9:27
Speaker 4: her by her dress, and saw her stabbing her. I
9:30
Speaker 4: hopped my way to him and grabbed him to see
9:33
Speaker 4: him off of her, and once I was holdingly, she
9:37
Speaker 4: got loose. We gave you some time to get up,
9:40
Speaker 4: and then I got to convinced him to get into
9:43
Speaker 4: the car and drove them off. I drove off to
9:46
Speaker 4: a motel, and then I came back to check on
9:49
Speaker 4: Ephraim and miss Bradley, but the amlas already came in.
9:51
Speaker 4: There was a hospital.
9:53
Speaker 1: So you basically saved Missus Bradley and Ephraim from being
9:58
Speaker 1: murdered by slimming Hondo by convincing them to stop stabbing
10:02
Speaker 1: them and drive away from the scene. But this incident
10:05
Speaker 1: on June nineteenth is what becomes two charges of attempted
10:10
Speaker 1: murder that gets stuck on you. The guy confined to
10:14
Speaker 1: a wheelchair at the time. Yeah, okay, So Slim and
10:20
Speaker 1: Hondo stabbed both Ephraim and Missus Bradley. You drove them
10:24
Speaker 1: to a motel. At some point, your friend otis back
10:29
Speaker 1: at the mobile home takes the gun Slim and Hondo
10:31
Speaker 1: had left behind. Not too smart, by the way, because
10:34
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo knew who was in the mobile home
10:36
Speaker 1: when they stashed it in the first place, so they
10:40
Speaker 1: come looking for Otis.
10:41
Speaker 4: On June twenty third, June twenty thirty, he came overs
10:45
Speaker 4: looking for Otis like Wilson in the morning. They said,
10:48
Speaker 4: come outside, I'm going to go to your olds. I
10:52
Speaker 4: didn't know Olis's out here in the motor holes. So
10:55
Speaker 4: when I went up to the front, York Jordan open
10:58
Speaker 4: oldest steps out, hands packed over this, say there with
11:02
Speaker 4: my gun. He said, we can go get it. He
11:04
Speaker 4: said too late, and then catching they started fighting. All
11:07
Speaker 4: this was fighting back for they were fighting him from
11:09
Speaker 4: the side of the mother hole. He went around the
11:11
Speaker 4: garage and that was the first time I saw him
11:13
Speaker 4: being stand and I came back from around there. I
11:16
Speaker 4: wasn't neighboring water or whatever, so didn't say nothing, and
11:19
Speaker 4: if listening to everything that was going on. And I
11:22
Speaker 4: don't know how the much time passed, but gave Honolds
11:25
Speaker 4: came from around there and it was no more noise.
11:27
Speaker 4: I was wondering them, okay, now what he said, Uh,
11:31
Speaker 4: wolves up, you got some recume And then I gave
11:33
Speaker 4: him my blanket. So him was swinging, went behind the
11:37
Speaker 4: fane and wrapped him up, drugged him out, and put
11:41
Speaker 4: him in the car. And then instead of him a
11:43
Speaker 4: slim boy, he said, you said you stay here watching
11:46
Speaker 4: down all the blood that was coming from behind the
11:48
Speaker 4: mother hole, and showed me to get in the car
11:50
Speaker 4: and ride with him. So I took him over through
11:53
Speaker 4: my own boys neighborhood by the canal, and that's where
11:56
Speaker 4: he jumped in and I said, look, I'll be back.
11:59
Speaker 4: I left the ever same day.
12:02
Speaker 1: And what would you tell anyone listening now who's wondering
12:05
Speaker 1: why you played any part in getting rid of the
12:08
Speaker 1: body with Slim and Hondo.
12:10
Speaker 4: I did with any reasonable person not trying to die,
12:13
Speaker 4: I would have done hadn't seen what I saw. I
12:16
Speaker 4: knew I gotta do something that made myself a part
12:18
Speaker 4: of what's going on. And I wasn't a physically able
12:22
Speaker 4: to do nothing to prevent myself from being killed. And
12:26
Speaker 4: I'm swissed in that was the smartest thing that I
12:29
Speaker 4: could have done at the time for myself, instead of
12:33
Speaker 4: doing nothing.
12:34
Speaker 1: If you had done nothing at all, what do you
12:37
Speaker 1: think Slim and Hondo would have done.
12:40
Speaker 4: I was a little bit too afraid to find out.
12:43
Speaker 4: I was in a position where something happened to my
12:46
Speaker 4: friend Donalds to know where I stood, and I did
12:51
Speaker 4: what I thought was the best thing to do for
12:53
Speaker 4: my film that I too for older now about saying
12:58
Speaker 4: my film.
13:07
Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company,
13:12
Speaker 1: and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international
13:16
Speaker 1: law firm. The AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal
13:19
Speaker 1: services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals
13:24
Speaker 1: most in need, and recently they announced that working to
13:27
Speaker 1: reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar
13:30
Speaker 1: of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an
13:34
Speaker 1: unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro bono legal assistance to
13:38
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable members of our society and in support
13:41
Speaker 1: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal
13:45
Speaker 1: justice area. Otis's murderer eventually gets pinned on you, the
13:56
Speaker 1: guy who was only able to watch or listen helplessly,
13:59
Speaker 1: has your friend got stabbed to death, and then, in
14:04
Speaker 1: order to save your own life, you did what probably
14:07
Speaker 1: any of us would have done. You played along with
14:09
Speaker 1: Slim and Hondo until you could get away. I would
14:12
Speaker 1: not want to have been in your shoes. At that point,
14:16
Speaker 1: you just lost your brand. Otis you had to contend
14:19
Speaker 1: with the question of to snitch or not to snitch
14:23
Speaker 1: on like a sophie's choice on these two murderous drug dealers.
14:26
Speaker 4: That's when I was trying to process whatever it just
14:29
Speaker 4: happened to show. Thirty seven o'clock in the morning, That's
14:34
Speaker 4: when I saw the police and I told that I
14:37
Speaker 4: knew who it was. Would always said, come over here
14:39
Speaker 4: and look, I knew it was. I said, I know
14:42
Speaker 4: where he lives, to his mother's house. And then when
14:46
Speaker 4: we say back to the scene, I asked my saying,
14:49
Speaker 4: look if I had any information, talk on our contract,
14:52
Speaker 4: and he gave me his car. I took your car
14:55
Speaker 4: rode Mouth two. While I was to the phone booth,
15:00
Speaker 4: I called a police you look and I told everything
15:02
Speaker 4: they need to know. It's a little while was there.
15:04
Speaker 4: They came and kicked me up, shook me out to
15:06
Speaker 4: the station, and I made the cap. Maybe once I
15:10
Speaker 4: made the cake, they let me go out back home.
15:14
Speaker 1: So you made a statement to a sergeant. Sergeant Preston
15:17
Speaker 1: and you're going to be a witness, and Steve, maybe
15:20
Speaker 1: you can tell us about the next part of the story,
15:22
Speaker 1: which is how Kevin was picked up for cocaine possession.
15:25
Speaker 1: Sometime later, and while in the state's witness holding area
15:29
Speaker 1: of La County Jail, he eventually meets three guys who
15:34
Speaker 1: are responsible for him being in this horrible predicament today.
15:38
Speaker 3: What happened was Kevin got arrested for a possession of
15:41
Speaker 3: cocaine charge, and because he was the main witness against
15:45
Speaker 3: Slim and Hondo on a murder case, they put him
15:49
Speaker 3: in with other prosecution witnesses and it's commonly called the
15:54
Speaker 3: snitch Tank, which is a separate jail from the men's
15:58
Speaker 3: central jail. And while Kevin was in there, he told
16:02
Speaker 3: his cellmate, Willie Battle and the guy that was in
16:07
Speaker 3: the next sel over, Jesse Williams. He told them what
16:12
Speaker 3: actually happened because they asked, and that's very common in jail,
16:15
Speaker 3: what are he in for? And they exchanged information, but
16:19
Speaker 3: this time it only came from Kevin. He told him
16:22
Speaker 3: what happened, and they twisted it around and ran with it.
16:27
Speaker 3: And then they called the Compton Police Department and asked
16:30
Speaker 3: them if they had a murder case where the body
16:33
Speaker 3: was found by a canal. They called it a canal.
16:36
Speaker 3: It's really a drainage ditch. And they put him in
16:39
Speaker 3: contact with Detective Marvin Branscombe, who was not sergeant to Preston,
16:44
Speaker 3: who Kevin gave the statement to, and they convinced Branscomb
16:48
Speaker 3: that what they had to say was true, which they
16:51
Speaker 3: said that Kevin confessed to these tempted murders and murder.
16:56
Speaker 4: They say, we got a guy on here bragging about
16:58
Speaker 4: chilling his guy with lady is telling the big time,
17:02
Speaker 4: don't it. So I end up going from being the
17:05
Speaker 4: actual witness to now being the actual killer.
17:10
Speaker 3: So Kevin became a defendant instead of the prosecution witness,
17:14
Speaker 3: and they moved him out of the snitch tank to
17:15
Speaker 3: another part of the jail. So Kevin's transferred over to
17:19
Speaker 3: the central jail, and then he met a very notorious
17:23
Speaker 3: snitch named Leslie White. And I get a call from
17:26
Speaker 3: Leslie White. I'd never heard of Leslie White. Leslie White says,
17:30
Speaker 3: I understand you're defending Kevin Dyke's and that he has
17:36
Speaker 3: been ratted out by two snitches. And I said that's
17:39
Speaker 3: exactly right. He says, well, I can help you. You
17:43
Speaker 3: come down here and I'm going to tell you all
17:45
Speaker 3: about the snitch system and how it works. Okay, So
17:50
Speaker 3: I go down to the jail. I talked to Leslie White.
17:53
Speaker 3: He tells me about how inmates get a hold of
17:56
Speaker 3: paperwork and change fact and get a hold of the
18:02
Speaker 3: detective or DA that's handling a particular murder case. And
18:07
Speaker 3: because they know these unique facts, they can convince the
18:11
Speaker 3: detective or district attorney that's handling the case that this
18:15
Speaker 3: confession was a valid confession. So I said, well, that
18:18
Speaker 3: sounds good. Okay, I'll put you on the witness list,
18:20
Speaker 3: mister White. So about a week or two later, I
18:25
Speaker 3: get the witness list from the district attorney and Leslie
18:29
Speaker 3: White is on there as a people's witness. And not
18:33
Speaker 3: only that, I get a report that says that Kevin
18:37
Speaker 3: Dyke's confessed to Leslie White. And I'm flabbergasted because I
18:42
Speaker 3: just talked to Leslie White and he was going to
18:45
Speaker 3: be a witness for Kevin. So I go down to
18:48
Speaker 3: the jail and I call out Leslie White and he's
18:51
Speaker 3: willing to come and talk to me, and I said,
18:54
Speaker 3: what do you are? You a witness for the prosecution now,
18:57
Speaker 3: he says yep. I said, well, you know that Kevin's innocent.
19:01
Speaker 3: Why do you do what? How can you do that?
19:04
Speaker 3: And he says, well, man's got to do what he's
19:07
Speaker 3: got to do. That's what he said.
19:10
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest. My head is spinning. And I
19:13
Speaker 1: didn't even live through this. I mean, this is Kevin.
19:16
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so sorry that you're living this is that,
19:18
Speaker 1: this is your life we're talking about.
19:21
Speaker 4: I didn't actually believe that what was going on was
19:25
Speaker 4: even possible. I didn't think that this stuff would hold.
19:29
Speaker 4: I'm like, what hold? I'm an actual eye withness. These
19:34
Speaker 4: guys they don't know nothing about where I lived, but
19:36
Speaker 4: nothing about what actually happened. So I didn't really believe
19:40
Speaker 4: the people could do what they were what they were
19:42
Speaker 4: doing to me. I had never even heard about that before.
19:45
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is like nothing. I don't
19:47
Speaker 1: think we've ever heard a story like this before. So Steven,
19:50
Speaker 1: what happens next?
19:52
Speaker 3: When we got to court, all they had was his
19:56
Speaker 3: statement to Sergeant Preston and three snitches, and I couldn't
20:01
Speaker 3: believe that they would even want to proceed with this evidence.
20:06
Speaker 3: But they did, and just before the verdict was issued,
20:10
Speaker 3: I told Kevin, I said, now Kevin, when you get
20:12
Speaker 3: out of here, you've got to change your ways, be
20:15
Speaker 3: a law abiding citizen and then used to society, and
20:19
Speaker 3: he said, yeah, came mister Houser, I'm going to do that,
20:22
Speaker 3: came back guilty. We were both floored.
20:27
Speaker 1: You were sentenced to twenty four years to life. Here
20:30
Speaker 1: it is now twenty twenty. You're still in Can you
20:33
Speaker 1: just take us back there, put us in that courtroom
20:36
Speaker 1: with you if you can.
20:38
Speaker 4: I actually should not believe the verbiant. Yeah, I actually
20:43
Speaker 4: in the fine. I just see how it was possible. Yeah,
20:47
Speaker 4: I was askual eye witness. I came for. I gave
20:51
Speaker 4: him everything they needed, all evidence to car the weather.
20:55
Speaker 4: The people from testified that I didn't attack. People will
21:01
Speaker 4: stand by thirty three times at least fighter I didn't attacking,
21:05
Speaker 4: And it just fires that I didn't attack Ms. Browning.
21:09
Speaker 4: That was my friend mother. There was nobody here. You'll say, okay, anybody.
21:15
Speaker 1: But and this is something I really need to highlight here,
21:19
Speaker 1: which is that if you go in a jury box
21:22
Speaker 1: and you're presented with a case where someone's life is
21:26
Speaker 1: hanging into balance, just like Kevin's was, and there's no
21:28
Speaker 1: evidence connecting that person's at a crime except for the
21:32
Speaker 1: testimony of a snitch, you cannot vote to convict because
21:38
Speaker 1: it's crazy. I mean, these are people who are clearly incentivized.
21:41
Speaker 1: They may not tell you that at the time, but
21:43
Speaker 1: you have to understand that the defense can never bribe
21:46
Speaker 1: a witness. That's it. That's a crime punishable by long
21:48
Speaker 1: time in jail. But the government can make a deal
21:51
Speaker 1: with a snitch to reduce their charges or drop their
21:55
Speaker 1: charges in exchange for testimony, and that is the best
21:59
Speaker 1: bribe of all. So it's the most unreliable testimony imaginable.
22:04
Speaker 1: And here you have a case where the direct evidence
22:07
Speaker 1: contradicts what the snitches were saying. The evidence showed that
22:12
Speaker 1: Kevin could not have committed this crime, and yet he
22:16
Speaker 1: ends up getting convicted on the testimony of people who
22:20
Speaker 1: were notoriously untrustworthy and were incentivised to lie.
22:23
Speaker 4: Mister Holliard found evidence where they get apartments. They say, oh,
22:27
Speaker 4: he's grit in my family. So the government gives him
22:31
Speaker 4: money to relocate them move in apartments. All of them
22:35
Speaker 4: ended up getting reduced sients left white ended up getting
22:38
Speaker 4: out at such five and gives me, I don't know
22:41
Speaker 4: if you remember this thousand. He came right back an
22:45
Speaker 4: he threatened thesis attorney, if you don't bake me back out,
22:49
Speaker 4: I'm gonna blow his whole case up. You remember, miss out.
22:52
Speaker 3: What happened was Leslie White then went on sixty minutes
22:56
Speaker 3: when he was back in again in in the jail,
22:59
Speaker 3: and he showed on camera how he could work his
23:04
Speaker 3: magic and get favors from the DA. And then when
23:09
Speaker 3: I saw that, I went down and talked to Leslie White.
23:12
Speaker 3: I said, well, now I know for sure you lied
23:14
Speaker 3: in Kevin's case, and he said, yeah, I did. And
23:17
Speaker 3: I said, well, I want you to sign an affidavit
23:20
Speaker 3: that you lied in Kevin's case because Kevin deserves a
23:23
Speaker 3: new trial. And so sure enough he signed it. But
23:29
Speaker 3: instead of giving Kevin a new trial, the DA indicted
23:33
Speaker 3: him Leslie White with a grand jury, had me come
23:36
Speaker 3: in and testify, and they gave Leslie White four years
23:40
Speaker 3: for perjury. They gave Kevin Dykes nothing. And that's where
23:45
Speaker 3: it sat. It's all so backwards and upside down.
23:49
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, we have two more characters
23:51
Speaker 1: that are coming up, with Gigi Gordon, who's on the
23:54
Speaker 1: right side of this story, and Willie battles. We can't
23:56
Speaker 1: leave him out.
23:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, When this snitch system came out, thanks to Leslie White,
24:02
Speaker 3: believe it or not, Gigi Gordon was appointed. She's a
24:05
Speaker 3: defense lawyer. She's deceased now, but she was a criminal
24:09
Speaker 3: defense lawyer. Friend of mine, and Jigi Gordon was appointed
24:13
Speaker 3: by i think the Supreme Court to do an independent
24:18
Speaker 3: investigation on all of the snitch cases to see if
24:22
Speaker 3: justice was done. And she spent over a year on
24:26
Speaker 3: this project, being paid by the state of California. And
24:30
Speaker 3: as a result of Gigi Gordon's research and investigation, a
24:35
Speaker 3: law was introduced in the legislature to require corroboration if
24:41
Speaker 3: snitch testimony is going to be used in a case.
24:44
Speaker 1: And that happened, but they didn't do it retroactively. Am
24:47
Speaker 1: I getting that right? Because it always drives me nuts
24:50
Speaker 1: when we change a law in this country and we
24:52
Speaker 1: don't do it retroactively. How could it be different now
24:55
Speaker 1: than it was before. It doesn't make sense.
24:58
Speaker 3: Didn't make any sense to me. That's why I appealed it.
25:01
Speaker 3: We went to the Appellate Court in California, then the
25:05
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, and actually when we went to the Supreme Court,
25:09
Speaker 3: the first time, the law had not been changed yet.
25:12
Speaker 3: But then we went back to the Supreme Court on
25:14
Speaker 3: another issue, and the law had been changed. And in
25:18
Speaker 3: federal court, the judge actually said that Kevin might be innocent,
25:24
Speaker 3: but there's nothing I can do because this law is
25:26
Speaker 3: not retroactive or something to that effect. And I just
25:31
Speaker 3: thought that that was the most unjust result I've ever
25:35
Speaker 3: had in my whole career.
25:38
Speaker 1: Still is wow.
25:40
Speaker 3: And so, if Kevin's case were tried now, they wouldn't
25:45
Speaker 3: have any evidence against him because the only incriminating evidence
25:50
Speaker 3: was from the snitch testimony.
26:02
Speaker 1: If Kevin's case were to be tried now, they would
26:05
Speaker 1: have no evidence against him. And yet it's thirty four
26:11
Speaker 1: years later and he's I can't this is nuts.
26:16
Speaker 3: I went to the district attorney with that very argument.
26:20
Speaker 3: With each new district attorney that came in, I would
26:22
Speaker 3: go talk to him and they told me that because
26:26
Speaker 3: of his statement admitting what he did pretending to go
26:30
Speaker 3: along with what Slim and Honda were doing, because of
26:35
Speaker 3: that statement, that made him guilty. And they said, sorry,
26:39
Speaker 3: you have to present new evidence to us before we're
26:42
Speaker 3: going to recommend anything for Kevin. And I said, what's
26:46
Speaker 3: the matter. With these confessions by these snitches, that's new evidence.
26:51
Speaker 3: At least since the trial. Two out of three Leslie
26:54
Speaker 3: White signed an affidavit that sent him put himself in prison,
26:59
Speaker 3: and Jesse Williams signed a letter saying that he lied
27:04
Speaker 3: in Kevin's case. He said, no, we want some more
27:07
Speaker 3: than that. Plus you've got one snitch that you don't have,
27:11
Speaker 3: you know, retraction from Willi Battle. We never had a
27:14
Speaker 3: retraction from him. And Willie Battle I tried to find,
27:17
Speaker 3: but he's probably dead. So that's where we sit.
27:23
Speaker 1: And what is the outlook now? I mean, is there hope?
27:27
Speaker 3: I think Kevin has two hopes number one with a
27:33
Speaker 3: new DA. I think Gascon is much more progressive than
27:36
Speaker 3: Jackie Lacy. I thought Jackie Lacey was very progressive, and
27:40
Speaker 3: I had high hopes for Kevin when she put together
27:44
Speaker 3: her Internal Innocent project and I met with what I
27:50
Speaker 3: thought was a very ethical, fine lawyer, and I got
27:54
Speaker 3: a very unfavorable result. And I asked him during that hearing,
27:59
Speaker 3: I said, you know, as a human being, you know,
28:02
Speaker 3: do you really think that Kevin Dykes was convicted properly fairly?
28:09
Speaker 3: He wouldn't answer, He wouldn't give me an answer that
28:14
Speaker 3: was the guy in charge of Jackie Lacy's internal innocence project.
28:20
Speaker 1: And in case people think there's not enough here, already
28:23
Speaker 1: we have a case where the victim's family doesn't hold
28:27
Speaker 1: Kevin responsible. I think anybody coming out of you know,
28:31
Speaker 1: high school would look at this and go, okay, well,
28:33
Speaker 1: this guy's in and said, let's get him home. But
28:36
Speaker 1: the way the laws are set up, it's really really
28:39
Speaker 1: difficult even in a case like this with so much
28:41
Speaker 1: compelling evidence of not just reasonable doubt, but evidence of
28:45
Speaker 1: actual innocence. And now the next step really and luckily
28:50
Speaker 1: we have a great governor my opinion, of course, the
28:53
Speaker 1: great governor of the state of California, Gavin Newsom. What
28:57
Speaker 1: is the process for trying to get this on his ask?
29:00
Speaker 3: The law in California is that if you've done state
29:04
Speaker 3: prison time, you have to go to the Supreme Court
29:07
Speaker 3: before you can petition the governor on a different case.
29:10
Speaker 3: Because of that prior conviction for involuntary manslaughter, Kevin can't
29:15
Speaker 3: go to the Governor's office. I can't go on his
29:18
Speaker 3: behalf to the governor. You have to petition the Supreme
29:21
Speaker 3: Court and get permission from them to ask the governor
29:25
Speaker 3: for a pardon or clemency. And in the years past
29:30
Speaker 3: we've had a pretty conservative Supreme Court, which is different now,
29:35
Speaker 3: But as well try that if there's nothing else.
29:39
Speaker 1: That is a strange thing in the law too. In California.
29:41
Speaker 1: Is not the first time I've encountered it where it
29:43
Speaker 1: has to you know, the underlying previous conviction stands in
29:47
Speaker 1: the way of even the governor taking an action, because
29:49
Speaker 1: I believe if he knew about this case, he would
29:51
Speaker 1: want to.
29:52
Speaker 3: But I think the best thing to do is to
29:55
Speaker 3: hope for parole, hope that the DA does not oppose parole.
30:00
Speaker 3: Think Kevin comes up for parole, I think in another
30:01
Speaker 3: year or two.
30:02
Speaker 4: The SEVERER thirteenth next year.
30:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well, but even better is to have the
30:09
Speaker 3: new DA take a look at this case and admit
30:11
Speaker 3: that Kevin was wrongfully convicted.
30:14
Speaker 1: Kevin, what would you like people to do or or
30:17
Speaker 1: to know?
30:18
Speaker 4: Well, I know I need the right things, and I
30:20
Speaker 4: went to the police hand and hide, throw the food.
30:23
Speaker 4: Then I tow the food firm and jury. Even now
30:28
Speaker 4: I don't regret doing the right thing because it was
30:31
Speaker 4: my friend's life and it was important for his mother
30:35
Speaker 4: to know the food. What happened to her son, I
30:39
Speaker 4: was e same thing. You know, I will still go
30:41
Speaker 4: through the police. I'll still set the food. Maybe I
30:44
Speaker 4: wouldn't say that while I'm in jail. It cost me
30:47
Speaker 4: a lot. I've lost like seventeen family members. My mom's
30:52
Speaker 4: had spoke a few years ago. Now, it cost me
30:55
Speaker 4: a lot, But I was still doing it even after
30:58
Speaker 4: all this.
30:58
Speaker 1: Time, and all this time in prison, have there been
31:02
Speaker 1: any like moments of little rays of light that poked
31:05
Speaker 1: their head into such a dark place? And was there
31:07
Speaker 1: a particular moment where you almost lost hope? It's sort
31:10
Speaker 1: of the darkest moment for you.
31:12
Speaker 4: I found Lorrd the last five years, so I'm a
31:14
Speaker 4: finished finding with God in myself. So now it's like,
31:18
Speaker 4: you know what, there's nothing I can do about what
31:20
Speaker 4: they've done. I'm not gonna let them take what's left
31:24
Speaker 4: that I got in my spear. And now my family's
31:28
Speaker 4: proud of me, even though I've never done nothing, because
31:31
Speaker 4: I've saved my life. So it's real dark time, trusting
31:36
Speaker 4: a lot, but I'm gonna keep push them. I'm gonna
31:39
Speaker 4: keep believing I got to so I.
31:41
Speaker 1: Got I mean, I'm just sitting here with a heavy
31:45
Speaker 1: sort of nod in my stomach, just the fact that
31:49
Speaker 1: I mean, you're fifty nine year old man, you spent
31:52
Speaker 1: almost twice as long in prison as you were free.
31:55
Speaker 1: Your no threat to society. This is what the par
31:58
Speaker 1: board is for. You know, Well, this man needs to
32:01
Speaker 1: go home. I'm going to stay optimistic and I'm going
32:03
Speaker 1: to tell you We're going to do everything we can.
32:05
Speaker 1: And I feel like society owes you a debt and
32:09
Speaker 1: an apology, and all we can do is bring as
32:13
Speaker 1: much attention as we can and trying to bring this
32:16
Speaker 1: to the attention of the people who can make a
32:18
Speaker 1: difference in this case, try to make it right.
32:22
Speaker 3: All right.
32:22
Speaker 1: So we have a very special section segment of this show.
32:29
Speaker 1: That's my favorite part, and this is what we call
32:31
Speaker 1: closing arguments. I first of all, thank you both. So
32:35
Speaker 1: first of all, Stephen K. Hawser Attorney, thank you for
32:39
Speaker 1: being here with us today.
32:40
Speaker 4: Thank you.
32:40
Speaker 3: It's a privilege.
32:41
Speaker 1: And Kevin Dyke, what can I say?
32:43
Speaker 4: Man?
32:44
Speaker 1: You are inspiring guy. From what little I know you,
32:48
Speaker 1: just from this call, I can tell your spirit is
32:50
Speaker 1: coming through the wire all the way across the country
32:53
Speaker 1: and it's going to be going out to a lot
32:54
Speaker 1: of people, So thank you for sharing your thoughts and
32:57
Speaker 1: being so courageous here today problem and now I turned
33:01
Speaker 1: my microphone off, uh and I just leave my headphones on,
33:06
Speaker 1: close my eyes and let you both talk about whatever
33:09
Speaker 1: you want for the last few minutes of the show. Kevin,
33:12
Speaker 1: we're gonna save you for last if that's okay. And Stephen,
33:16
Speaker 1: please just share whatever it is that's on your mind.
33:20
Speaker 4: Uh.
33:20
Speaker 3: Well, Kevin, let's hope this is another step to get
33:27
Speaker 3: you out of prison. It's been a long long road,
33:32
Speaker 3: but I won't give up ever.
33:36
Speaker 1: Kevin, over to you.
33:38
Speaker 4: I'm thankful, you know. And it's taking me a long time,
33:42
Speaker 4: but I'm at it like the last five years now,
33:46
Speaker 4: and my life now still has purpose and meaning despite
33:50
Speaker 4: what they've done. I owe no feel feelings, force nobody.
33:55
Speaker 4: He is what he is as a lost life. I
34:00
Speaker 4: was twenty four years old, fifty nine now I've been
34:02
Speaker 4: sixty there this year. I've been seen over five years.
34:06
Speaker 4: So it's like there's nothing else that I can't do
34:09
Speaker 4: because I don't console it. But I won't let what
34:12
Speaker 4: they've done to me back then, excepting to me now.
34:16
Speaker 4: I'm free, you know, inside, and I'm at peace, and
34:21
Speaker 4: even if I die in here, I'll be at peace
34:24
Speaker 4: knowing I stood for the super and for once, I
34:27
Speaker 4: need the right thing as an adult for my family.
34:31
Speaker 4: I wasn't always a criminal. When it came in to
34:34
Speaker 4: someone life and death, I needed you the right thing
34:37
Speaker 4: for once, something my parents were proud of. This. Nothing
34:41
Speaker 4: I can do but keep my mind focused on what's possible,
34:46
Speaker 4: what could be possible, and how to help us. It
34:48
Speaker 4: is a given opportunity, this syd family in my community
34:52
Speaker 4: where I see it now, you know I won't let
34:55
Speaker 4: nothing take that from me. That's all I have, and
34:58
Speaker 4: I appreciate everything you guys were doing, and I appreciate
35:02
Speaker 4: support from me anybody, whether it's the governor, people, whoever
35:05
Speaker 4: can be done to help me. It is fool, the
35:09
Speaker 4: absolute fool in front of people, and they let them
35:12
Speaker 4: deciding me. So I need to be punished for what
35:15
Speaker 4: I needed if they say so, because opportunity. But hey,
35:19
Speaker 4: I was worried for my life, fear for my life
35:20
Speaker 4: at the time. But I see what I believe he
35:24
Speaker 4: was writing and I don't really join it.
35:33
Speaker 1: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you
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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. It really helps, and I'm a proud
35:40
Speaker 1: donor to the NSIS project, and I really hope you'll
35:42
Speaker 1: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping
35:46
Speaker 1: to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot
35:49
Speaker 1: org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd
35:52
Speaker 1: like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis.
35:56
Speaker 1: The music in the show is by three time OSCAR
35:58
Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay. Be sure to follow us on Instagram
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36:06
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava
36:09
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one