Latest / Harder Than Life / 92: The Secret to Becoming Unstoppable w/ Mike Ciorrocco

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92: The Secret to Becoming Unstoppable w/ Mike Ciorrocco · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:15
  Hello, wonderful listeners, and welcome back to the Heart of Life podcast, where we embrace the challenges and celebrate the triumphs of life with open hearts and endless positivity. I'm your host, Kelly Siegel, and today we have a true spectacular guest who embodies the spirit of turning obstacles into stepping stones.
• 0:31
  He's a powerhouse of motivation, the author of Rocket Fuel, Convert Setbacks, Become Unstoppable, and the visionary behind What Are You Made Of podcast. Get ready to unite your inner drive with the unstoppable Mikey C-Rock Sirocco. Mike, it's fantastic to have you with us. Let's dive into your incredible journey and learn how we can all harness our challenges into Rocket Fuel for our lives.
• 0:56
  What's happening, man? Hey, how's my guy Kelly doing, man? How's he doing? If I was any better, I would be you. Let's go. Let's go. Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate you allowing me to come on and share with your audience. And any time with my man Kelly is an uplifting moment, and I really cherish that. So I want to thank you.
• 1:16
  So I broke down this podcast a lot differently than everybody else because you and I have become pretty good friends. And I really want to deep dive into who you are as a person and what you bring. I listen to your podcast. You're spreading straight fire and gems. And you...
• 1:34
  One thing about you straight out of Philly and you absolutely bring it real and authentic. So let's get started and start talking about what key strategies have you found most effective for building a thriving enterprise and cultivating a culture that fosters leadership at all levels. A little deep question. See how we do it.
• 1:54
  Yeah, well, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, it's just like sports. You know, I coach softball, my daughter's softball team. We're always working on fundamentals, right? We need to build a foundation. And so I believe a foundation starts with some kind of mission, right? You got to have an intention.
• 2:09
  Because what happens is, is if we don't do that, then we have nowhere to go. Like we're just kind of drifting out there. So to me is a mission, which my mission has always been now, since I've been on my journey, that all people are unstoppable to live in the life of their dreams. And so I have a mission, which sets my intention and my intention drives my attention.
• 2:28
  It gives my attention direction because your attention can be dispersed. And that's the biggest problem here in this country right now is everybody's attention is dispersed. Those that are succeeding have set a solid intention, a mission, and that gives their attention direction. And once you do that, you're powerful because that's when you cause and create.
• 2:48
  What happens if you have no intention? Like, so I love that intention drives attention. So right now we're in a time where these kids are protesting at college campus. I don't want to turn this into a political thing, but it's hard to think of what their intention is. So without even getting into what their intention is, let's just assume that there really isn't much. What if you just, your intention is just to get attention?
• 3:15
  Well, hold on. So this is a great example of this. Okay. Every single person has an intention. Everybody has an intention. You can't. So living is, is, is intention. Okay. And the reason I say this is because if you don't create your own intention, you're not, you're not designing your own intention. You pick up somebody else's.
• 3:37
  Okay. And then what happens is you stack it on something that you have, which is a lot of cases in this and this college campuses, some of these kids care about what's going on. Like, like they don't like to see no matter what the reason is, they don't like to see people dying. They don't like to see families disrupted and destroyed on either side. Okay. So some people have the intention of like, Hey, let's bring awareness to this, but there's others that don't have intention themselves. And they pick up the intention of others that may be paying them.
• 4:04
  maybe rewarding them for doing the thing that they're doing, to be destructive. There's one thing between protesting and then destroying things and causing chaos, right? And so what they've done is they've picked up the intention of someone else. And then it layers on top of their intention, which their intention could be a lot of them. Hey, I need to get some money. I need money right now.
• 4:24
  That's their intention. So their attention is being directed by, hey, I need money right now. And they're in a low level. A lot of the ones that are doing it the wrong way are in a low level on the emotional scale right now. And as you get down into the lower bands of an emotional state, what happens is you tend to be destructive and cause chaos. So like when I studied human behavior and performance, I.
• 4:49
  I can basically talk to somebody for five minutes and understand whether they're going to be a destructive person, toxic person, a builder, a creator. And so you really it's important so that you stay away from those that are destructive and causing chaos because chaos is very contagious. One of my core values, Kelly, is that vibes matter and emotions are contagious.
• 5:12
  And I need that. I need to remember that because I cannot, I'm an empath. I feel people and I cannot be around toxicity. I cannot be around chaos. And so, you know, to answer your question, everybody's got an intention. It's just, is it yours or are you, are you picking up somebody else's?
• 5:28
  You know, it's why we resonate together. I'm peace, clarity, and freedom. And that's literally reverse of what you just said. I need my peace at all costs. It is not acceptable to upset that.
• 5:46
  Yeah, but sometimes, Kelly, sometimes we need, so in living our lives, right, there's times where we need stress. Stress, see, the thing is, it's not the thing. Like quitting, it's not a bad thing. It's what you quit that's a bad thing, right? But quitting has a negative connotation, right? So it's peace. Having your peace or not being in peace is not always a bad thing not to be in peace. Stress is not a bad thing when you use it for what it's designed for.
• 6:11
  Because you grow in stress if you do it and you're intentional with it, right? So peace, being peace, a lot of times leads to complacency because peace can be a bad thing at times. I like how you just went there with you put peace and stress as opposites. I can still be stressed and be peaceful. Yeah. And you can use stress. Stress is powerful to create. Believe me, I'm going to bring stress up.
• 6:37
  That's what working out does. Mikey, you know, you think about it. It's you creating stress on those muscles to tear them down to make them bigger. So, yeah, definitely. We're going to see that eye to eye. Let's let's actually pull back one and tell me a share a pivotal moment from your life that exemplifies turning a setback into your personal rocket fuel, because that's what you're that's what we're getting at.
• 7:01
  All right, so I grew up around a lot of brokenness. Drugs, alcohol, anxiety, depression, overdosing on medication for depression, anxiety. Not me personally, but family, okay? And I don't remember my parents ever together. So I grew up in a situation where it was every other weekend. Custody battles, child support battles. You had step-parents to the mix, half-brothers, half-sisters, stepsisters, all this stuff, right? Conflict with...
• 7:26
  a step parent not liking their spouse's family. Okay. And I'm a kid growing up in all this. And I was living with my mom until I was eight and she was moving on to her third marriage. And I decided, you know what? I don't want to move into another man's home. I don't want to learn another man's rules. Let me try my dad's house out. He was moving on to a second marriage. So I went to dinner and my dad sold me on moving with him. And I moved into my dad's house when I was eight years old, left my mom. She let me go, but broke her heart.
• 7:53
  And it was good at first. And for the two years, like I was living there for two years, I noticed a lot of chaos, a lot of toxicity, you know, a lot of conflict, a lot of fighting. Right. And a lot of psychological mental abuse.
• 8:09
  And I was mature enough somehow to realize like, damn, this isn't the way it's supposed to be, man. So I was coming home from my mom's house on every other weekend trip, right? And I was in southeastern Pennsylvania going back to my dad's house. And they have these hills, these roly hill roads. And my stomach was in knots going back to my dad's house. And I got like nervous anxiety as an eight to 10 year old going back. And my mom recognized it and she said, what's going on?
• 8:35
  And I, and I said, you know, I told her what was going on there. She said, Oh my God, she's, you, you shouldn't be living that. You don't have to live in that. And that was the first, one of the first lessons. Well, not really. I mean, I made decisions when I was younger, when I was eight to leave my mom's house, but it was one of the really cognitive moments where I was like, wow, I can cause and create where I, where I live, like where, where I want to live, what I want to do in my life. And she said, you know what? I'm going to file court papers to get you out of there.
• 9:01
  And you got to stick to your guns. If you make a decision, stick to your guns. Cause there's going to be people in life. When you decide something that they're going to try to talk you out of it to match their agenda, their intention. And your intention is what matters.
• 9:12
  So I listened to her. She filed those papers. Weeks went by. I'm coming home from school every day wondering when are these papers going to land? When's the bomb going to drop? You know, and I came home from school one day and I saw my dad had these papers in his hand. Tension in the house was like really thick. He said, what is this? I said, I don't know. What is it? He said, it says here you want to move back with your mom. It's court papers. I said, oh, man.
• 9:35
  So go back to your room. So my dad told me, go back to my room. I went back to my room, sat on my bed, waiting for him to come. Now, Kelly, my dad was my hero. He was a bricklayer, mason, poured concrete. I grew up doing that kind of stuff too. Hard work. That's really hard work. You see on Instagram all these times about hard work. The stuff that they're talking about on social media ain't hard work.
• 9:55
  And my dad was a hard worker. You shake his hand, you could tell his hands were rough, beat up, big forearms. I respected my dad, a hard worker. He used to carry money, a lot of $100 bills around his pocket all the time. He'd show us money all the time. And I loved that. I was like, this is the coolest shit, man. And it was the old school $100 bills, by the way. You guys remember the old ones with the little tiny Ben Franklin?
• 10:18
  And he came back to my room when I was sitting there and he said, Hey, it says here you want to move back with your mom. And I just can't wrap my head around this. Like you got everything you need here. And he was kind of in denial about the toxicity that was there, right? And he said, you know, your mom's got guys coming in and out of their house all the time. They don't have any money and you want to move back in that? I said, look, remember my mom said, stick to your guns. They're going to try to talk you out of it. So I just said, you know what? I'm not discussing this. But I already made my mind up.
• 10:44
  He said, okay, that's how it's going to be. And he reached in his pocket and he pulled out this $100 water bills, peeled one off, crumpled it up, and he threw it at me. He said, here, you're going to need this when you're living on the streets with your mother one day. And at that moment, the first thing that came through my mind was, holy shit, what did I do? Like, what did I just do? Like, what's going to happen now? Like, it's like a whistleblower in an organization. The no bad things are going on.
• 11:10
  And then they bring it to light and then they, they, they, their life is threatened. They're blackballed, all this stuff. Right. And I'm like, and mind you, like when this happens, the court papers happen. There's a process. I didn't get to leave the house right away. So now I know I'm going to be in this environment for longer knowing that I just blew the whistle. Right.
• 11:29
  But there's something inside of me too, and maybe this is the way I'm built, but I was like, you know what? I'm not going to need that money. I'll show you. And I was about 10 years old at this time. And so that moment, 30 years, I drove off of that moment. Everything, anytime something got tough, difficult, I was discouraged. I was picked on. I was bullied. I moved to schools, you know? I was jumped many times by people from different backgrounds than me, I'll just say.
• 11:55
  And I just always knew like, man, I'm not going to need that money. I'm not going to show him. So it got me through a lot of the tough times because I used it as fuel. And then when things were good, times were good. I'm like, I got to keep pushing the pedal down, man. This isn't going to be good enough because I'm not going to go back to that.
• 12:12
  And so one of the things that really started to register with me when I turned 40 was like, what is going on in my life? Everything I go through a bad time, it sucks. It feels like the end of the world. I feel like it's permanent. I always rise. Something always gets better. I always pursue something. And I realized something. And I wrote this book, Rocket Fuel Converts. I've become unstoppable about this. The rocket fuel law is that everything that comes your way.
• 12:37
  you have two choices. You can store it in your trunk where it'll slow you down and weigh you down or even stop you, or you can store it in your fuel tank and you can convert it. You have the option, the decision to convert it into rocket fuel and become unstoppable. And so I, I, I, I basically codified what I've been doing my whole life and all these circumstances that have come along. And by the way, everybody does this to a degree. Like we've all survived everything we've
• 13:08
  catalystic moment for me in my life where I realized like, wow, I got the power to do this and I can convert things. And, and, uh, I don't like, listen, I don't like going through tough times. I don't like when I get screwed over. I don't like when I get discouraged or things don't work out the way I expect them to. I don't like that. It sucks. It's like the worst feeling. It's dark when you're in the midst of an adversity. It's like the, at the end of the tunnel, there's hardly any light, if any.
• 13:30
  You know, but I have this thing where I just keep, I just tell myself, keep going. I talk to myself a lot. Keep going. Just keep going. Cause as you keep going and the harder you keep going, like you, like I want to go fast. I don't want to. Winston Churchill said, you know, he said, uh, when you're going through hell, keep going. Right. But like, that wasn't good enough for me. He has good as a man as he was. He didn't even say it the right way. He should said thrust is a must. You got to get through it. Like move fast. Yeah.
• 13:55
  And so, you know, that's for me, that's, that's the story, man. I just, I just keep going. And, and right now, like the last year hasn't been the easiest for me and the transition that I made, which we can talk about, but I just keep reminding myself like, dude, you're built differently, man. You're built for this shit. What are you made of? Yeah. I got to tell you, I just had this week's podcast guests on, on hard and like Carmen Bucci talking about the positive power of negative thinking. So I have that. I don't know if that's a thing.
• 14:24
  But I have that same sickness, I'll call it, where, boy, when you throw something negative at me, that's when I really wake up. If it's just we're on cruise control and everything's cruising, I'm like, it's when adversity hits. I'm like, oh, I get to be myself. But that's the fight or flight in me as a child. And you just triggered me with you talking about money.
• 14:48
  So I carry a lot of $100 bills all the time. He's having me 50s because they didn't have hundreds. Do you still do the same thing? I learned this from my stepdad, bro. Do you have it in your pocket? Do you do the same thing still? No, actually, you know what? Honestly, I don't carry cash anymore. I honestly don't. I just, it's cards. And then, you know, I have this whole philosophy we can talk about later, but...
• 15:13
  Look, look, here's the thing. What I learned about cash is that if you keep cash in your pocket, it disappears. It doesn't, it finds a home like cash. Cash is funny, man. It's one of them things where it's like, if you don't, if you don't, if you keep it in loose in that pocket, it's going to be gone, man. So. I find that if it's not a hundreds and fifties, if it's twenties, they burn like water. If I have a hundred and fifty, I keep, I guard it like the plague. It's the fricking credit card, especially now that you can just tap. It's like,
• 15:42
  half also you look at the bill you're like oh good lord yeah but yeah but you can keep at least you get at least you get to see that and you keep track of it right yeah what you don't with cash what's the transition that you make because i just met you this year we met through mutual friends and talk about your transition and then we'll get back into some of the the nitty-gritty but i want to hear about the transition because you know a lot of people know you got big following you got a
• 16:06
  Yeah, so I was in the mortgage real estate space for 20 years. Started as a real estate agent, loan officer, and I ended up, I mean, I'm always growing. So I ended up working with three of my best friends. We grew this whole group, a division of mortgage company, seven branches up from Delaware to Miami.
• 16:23
  built an eight figure company. We were doing 10 to 13 million of revenue a year, depending on the rates and the market. And we were trying to, you know, working on scaling that out. And eventually five years ago, I just decided, man, it's a grimy business. It's a commodity business, race to the bottom, who has the lowest rates,
• 16:39
  Who's willing to pay on, I didn't do this, but who's willing to pay real estate agents under the table against the law to get their business from them? And you're competing against all that. And a lot of grimy people in the business. There's good people in the business, but there's a lot of grimy people in the business. And to top it off, I want to differentiate myself. So I want to be me. I want that to matter, right? And the mortgage business didn't matter as much. You can only go so far with differentiation.
• 17:03
  And I wanted to build this brand and this C-Rock brand and then have people be attracted to that or hate it and not be around me. Right. But I wanted that to build some value around that. I couldn't do it enough in the mortgage business. So the problem was I was making great money and that great money had me trapped. I felt trapped.
• 17:22
  And then I got in the forties and I was like, you know what, man, like, this isn't the life I want to live. Like, but that money's good. Like, where can I make this kind of money doing something else? You know, and I have a house on the water, beautiful family, healthy family. Thank God I'm blessed. Certain lifestyle, not lavish, but nonetheless, it's a lifestyle that I want to maintain at least and grow. And I'm like, if I do this switch, I'm gonna have to pull back and I'm gonna have to like sacrifice for a while. And what is that like? And then I said, you know what? Here's the key. I need to get known. Yeah.
• 17:50
  Five years ago, I decided I got to get known. How big do I want to go? Well, nationally, globally. And then I saw aliens on the TV. I saw UFOs on the television. And I don't know if they're real, okay? But I saw them and the government's starting to talk about it. The news, the real, the regular news is talking about them. I'm like, shit. If there's aliens, I want the aliens to know who I am for what I do. And my background is a performance expert. I know how to scale businesses and I know how to build brands. I build people.
• 18:17
  And I wanted to get known for that. And I'm watching people like Gary Vee and Grant Cardone and Ed Milad and Tony Robbins, all these guys, and they're doing good work, but they knew something I didn't know. They knew how to build celebrity. They knew how to manufacture celebrity, be that one in their industry. And I said, you know what, that one, that one. And so I created a company called that one. And it's all about designing your life to be that one in your industry.
• 18:41
  uniquely and leaning into who you are unapologetically. And so I created this thing. Well, when I decided to get on, I had no idea how I was going to do it. So all of a sudden, the how doesn't matter at first. You got to commit. You got to set the intention first. Then your attention starts to go out. You got, you gave your attention direction. My attention started to go on to podcasting. And I got, I went on a show. Somebody invited me on a show. I had no idea what podcasts were five years ago. And as I'm being interviewed, I noticed my confidence going through the roof.
• 19:07
  And I'm like, wow, man, if I can, if I could just bottle this confidence, man, I'm going to be unstoppable. And I said, all right. So, so I got off that podcast. I told my assistant, Kim, who's my ops manager now at that one. And I said, Kim, I need to get on podcasts, move everything off my schedule. We got a book podcast, started doing it myself, reaching out, setting up appointments and all this stuff.
• 19:28
  Then I got an agency, which they're good, good, good company, but they just were getting me on shitty shows. And, but I didn't care. I just did them. I was doing seven to 10 podcasts a week. I was doing the reps because expertise comes from reps. I was putting reps in, building relationships, building network. And then I met this guy named Todd Armstrong. And Todd had a lot of connections and he had a lot of great shows. And he started booking me on shows. And in the last five years, Kelly, I've done over a thousand interviews as a guest on podcasts.
• 19:57
  And then I started my own show four and a half years ago. I've done six or 700 episodes of that now. And I documented the process and I saw what worked. And I was like, wow, this is powerful, man. And I can't keep this to myself. So I documented that process and I created that one, that company. And we help entrepreneurs now. Two years ago, I started this. We help entrepreneurs, celebrities, athletes, actors, movie producers, people just on the come up.
• 20:21
  get on a line podcasts, and then show them how to leverage the attention, leverage the relationship with the show host, and get the most out of it, and use and make podcasting a part of your life and business to blow up your brand. And so that's what I do now. That transition, though, came with, it's a startup, something out of nothing. So we had to build revenue. And then we take the money a lot of times, and we reinvest it in the business. And so my income, I had to live off of what I had and sell some assets, pull back on my net worth,
• 20:50
  Right. And it's like, to me, I think of it as pulling that rubber band back, but I have to act with urgency too, because I mean, there's only so much runway. So the transition, it was that transition. And over the last year, I've been building this, the revenue of this company with my team, my phenomenal team, by the way. And we're gaining momentum now or building the scaling. And before you know it, well, I'll blow the mortgage thing out of the water. But it's just that this, I have to have patient urgency right now.
• 21:16
  You got some great one-liners, patient urgency. I want to reiterate what you just said, because it is priceless. It is, you didn't know how you're going to do it, but you just started. So I always say, just figure out the what and the why and the how will appear, and you exemplify that. So yeah.
• 21:35
  People, if I'm just going to say it, say it in a quick things. If you want to get on podcasts, reach out to Mikey C rock. And that's actually his handle on all social medias. Mikey C rock. Follow this dude, reach out to him. He answers his DMS. Sorry. You're going to get that blown up. And if you have a compelling story, you're going to,
• 21:55
  He'll get you on podcasts. And I guarantee it. I've spoken to his clients. It's guaranteed, people. So if you've got a story, you've got a brand, you've got a vision, you want to just get started, reach out to Mikey C-Rock, and he will take care of you. And his team is fantastic. Thank you very much for that. I appreciate that. And let me add something else. So when you're going through these changes and these transitions, right, your ego takes a hit.
• 22:23
  You know, your net worth's dropping. You're not making the money that you used to make right now. Feels permanent, but it's not. But I keep getting reminded of this network, this relationship thing. Podcasting is more than just podcasting and producing content. It's also relationship building. I paid a guy 10 grand one time just to introduce me to everybody he thought I aligned with in his LinkedIn network because this guy was like really well connected. It had nothing to do with podcasts. And I would just be introduced to people and I'd have 15 minute calls with them and
• 22:50
  started businesses, raised money, did all kinds of wild things with it. But I got reminded of this this weekend, right? So I'm going through this right now and I'm still building. And I'm at this FanFest Comic Con in Philly with my son. He builds costumes, like elaborate costumes and wears them there. And he's going into film and TV. And because of podcasting and because of the network and relationship building, I was able to go to the show and Chevy Chase was there. And he's one of my favorites, right? Yeah.
• 23:18
  And instead of going through the normal routine of paying a hundred bucks or whatever, get a picture and autograph or whatever, waiting in line with all the other Comic-Con guys, you know, that, that, that, that wild crew. I reached out to my buddy, Darren Prince, who's Chevy's friend and agent. And I said, Darren, Hey man, I'm going up to the Comic-Con with my, my son. Is there any way you can connect me with Chevy? And he's like, yeah, sure. He's like, here's so-and-so. And he connected me via text. We go to the show.
• 23:45
  And I text Darren's partner or friend or whatever, associate. And they said, hey, come into the back of the booth. So we got to go into the back of the booth.
• 23:54
  the back way. And we got to meet Beverly D'Angelo, Chevy Chase, Randy Quaid, hanging out with them. And I became a hero to my son. Well, I'm already like, my son looks up to me in a way, but like, it's like him and his friends were like, dude, this is the greatest ComCon we've ever been to. This or that, you're the man, you're the man. I hope I can be like you one day when you're like, and it's just like, it reminds me that all this stuff pays off, not just financially, but it pays off in bigger ways, like relationships with your son and, and, and it helps other people.
• 24:22
  And so I got reminded of that this weekend. It was a really good time and a great experience. And shout out to Darren Prince. You guys don't know Darren Prince. Check him out. Good dude. We've all said this. Your network is your net worth. So were you at, was it a comic con? Or was it specifically to National Lampoon's vacation? Because, dude, Randy Quaid's got the best line ever in the National Lampoon's Christmas vacation. Shitter's full, Clark. Shitter's full.
• 24:52
  Yeah, it wasn't necessarily just for that, but they had that whole crew there. And yeah, so it was cool. It was a good time. So you just...
• 25:03
  inadvertently just showed your mastery of the of your mindset so to the neophyte out there that's just listening to the heart of life podcast that's just trying to grow himself what what are some actionable tips that that you've used to master your mindset and maintain that rocket fuel motivation and resilience across both personal and your professional life
• 25:32
  So here's the thing. I studied human behavior. I studied performance. And one of the things I do know is that confidence can turn the hearts of the world towards you. People want to help you when you're confident. They want to be around you when you're confident. It's attraction. Create an attraction model. But when you're not confident, the world will actually turn against you. Hearts will shrivel up and die away from you.
• 25:56
  And repel. So like knowing that I'm like, well, shoot, confidence is really a decision. You can decide to be confident. Even when you're not in a state or the things around you and your environment and things are going on seem to be like all against you and everything. And it's like, there's no way you anybody looking at this scenario and the circumstances that you're in, you should be confident, you still can decide to be confident.
• 26:20
  And I know that. So when you know that, knowledge is power. And so if I know that, then why in hell would I ever let myself be lack confidence? Why would I decide to lack confidence? I decide to be confident. And when I decide to be confident, it attracts people. People want to be around you. And so that's been a powerful mindset thing. But the other thing is like, I love to give until the cup overflows and then give more.
• 26:44
  And anyway, I'm always like intention, again, intention, set intention to give, help people, elevate people. When I set that intention, my attention is directed now on things and ways I can help and give to people. And when you do that, the people that don't appreciate it, they'll leave. They won't return the favor, whatever. And that's good because you don't want those in your environment anyway. But the ones that do and understand the whole process and that are good people will come in waves.
• 27:15
  They'll come in bundles. They'll come in abundance. And that's what I focus on. I always love the meme. I'm so confident that I go after Moby Dick in a rowboat and bring the tartar sauce.
• 27:28
  Have you seen it? I don't know why I just thought of that because it's true, man. And that false confidence is very apparent as well. And confidence is built day in and day out through making loving decisions for yourself and keeping the word you say to yourself as well as other people.
• 27:51
  And it just irradiates over time. It's that making many love-based decisions. So throughout your career, we're going to talk about just your career. And I think you're going to talk about right now on this question, but throughout your career, you've met many challenges. Which personal or professional setback taught you the most valuable lesson? I would bet it's right now, isn't it? Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, I don't know about, yeah, I guess so. I mean, there's times where,
• 28:20
  In the mortgage industry before, you know, we built a 10, eight figures, 10 million, 11 million, something like that. And then it all came crumbling down in 2018. And that moment was tough because I felt like I was taken advantage of, I was stolen from.
• 28:35
  like million dollars ish. Okay. And, and that lesson was really important because I was at first blaming being this victim, like this dude, can you believe this dude took advantage of this? Can you believe this dude did this? Can you believe this dude did? And the attention wasn't in the right place. The attention should have been, Hey, what did I do to cause this? What did I do?
• 28:53
  to be in this, put myself in this position in the first place. And then what can I learn from that? So that never happens again. That was in 2018. And what took us seven years to build took us two years. The next time to get back to that level from, from zero.
• 29:08
  And so that was a powerful lesson for me is that everything you, again, again, everything you go through is rocket fuel. You take responsibility because to the degree you take responsibility for everything, even though somebody from the outside would be looking at like, that dude screwed you. That's nothing to do with what you did. To the degree you take responsibility, you get control. And I decided, Kelly, that I never want to be a puppet. I want to be a puppet master. And if you don't take responsibility, you're giving control to someone else and you're a fucking puppet.
• 29:38
  And I don't want to be a fucking puppet. So I decided to take responsibility, take control to the degree I can. And it just, it changes everything for you. Bro, I don't know if you can see this. I literally wrote this on the airplane yesterday. It says, when everyone sucks, but you, you lack accountability. So everybody sucks. Everything sucks. It's really you that sucks. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you can only control everything.
• 30:06
  You can only build yourself, you know? And so that's what I really, I mean, I do a lot of work on myself, man. A lot of focus on myself to build. And, you know, I'm still, I'm a work in progress, man. I mean, you know, the other thing is like a lot of times we'll get caught up in these things where we'll be on social media looking at other people and you think they got it made and everything's working out for them. And some of the people that appear to be successful, multi-million, and they have all these people around them and this and that, and you think, man, they don't go through the stuff I'm going through.
• 30:37
  Like, man, they don't know what it's like to be me. But at the end of the day, I have another saying. Here's another one-liner. It's never as bad as you feel like it is internally, but it's never as good as it looks from the outside either. What do they say? There's somebody out there that is doing more with less than you have.
• 30:58
  Yeah, that always strikes me. So, you know, there's tremendous depth to you. And we can talk as friends for hours and hours and hours. I don't know enough. I know a little bit about you personally. So outside of your professional life, what are some hobbies or passions that energize you besides your son? Well, I have a daughter. She's 11. I'm homeschooling her right now. I'm responsible for that. I took that on two weeks ago and I'm hammering it out. I'm learning a lot myself from it. It's great. Our relationship's better than ever.
• 31:26
  Um, so I really enjoy educating my daughter and hanging out with my daughter. My wife and I like, uh, you know, we're married 21 years, May 31st. Um, relationships getting better and better and better and better. We had a good time last night, if you know what I mean. Um, and, uh, and you know, I really enjoy pouring into the family and, and, and, you know, helping them. And then also I love to golf, man. I don't get to do it as much as I like to, as I used to, but it was a three time a week guy. Now. Yeah.
• 31:54
  Once a week, as the weather's getting better here in Maryland, I'm out once a week. I love golfing and hanging out with the fellas and competing. And then I really love educating myself. I love reading. I love being curious and exploring and just seeing different ways that I can become more aware and more conscious of things. Bro, hats off to your wife dealing with you for 21 years and still wanting to hook up with you.
• 32:22
  I say that I love you, man. You know, I'm just kidding. But that's a big accomplishment. So I really do. I want to say kudos to your wife. Because 21 years is a big thing nowadays. You know, our parents, that was the thing to do. You just stuck it out.
• 32:38
  But I can tell already that you guys lean into it and do it. So you said you've done the work. What are some of the stuff that you're working on yourself now? What is something you're working on right now? And what healing modality are you using to address it? Well, let's start off with my love for God. I mean, I just am a firm believer. I've seen too much not to be a disciple and just love Jesus and
• 33:04
  But I'm also, I interpret the Bible a certain way. Not everybody interprets it the same way, I guess. And I interpret it also that we're supposed to explore and look around and figure out what's true to you. So I'm not afraid to read the Bible and then also go other places and see how other people perceive spirituality and religion.
• 33:23
  how the, what their concepts are and trying to explore that and make my own determination off of that. But I'm really working on my relationship with God and, and, and, and getting better at prayer, getting better at, uh, being open and receiving and surrendering and, and receiving abundance and not trying to, not trying to do it my own way and block block blessings. And, uh, you know, and, and then also looking at back, back in my past and seeing what things I'm still storing in the trunk.
• 33:53
  and clearing the trunk out. So, you know, look in ways to be more aware of those things. Cause I think we're blinded to them a lot of times subconsciously we're blinded to the things that we're holding in the trunk, slowing us down, maybe even stopping us. So I'm always investigating those things and taking the things that I'm learning and applying them in my life with, when it comes to performance. And so those are the, been the focus lately. And then also, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm growing business, man. I like, I feel like I'm
• 34:20
  You know, I don't know if anybody else feels like this, but like sometimes I feel like the best kept secret. So I'm always finding out ways I can get known better, not for ego, but for impact and exploring that and also still learning to scale businesses. I feel like like I really feel like I was put on this planet to make a big impact, but also have the ability to build a billion dollar company. And I don't know all the answers yet.
• 34:42
  And I don't know that I need to know all the answers. I need to know how to find the right people to get around the right people that know the answers that I don't know. So I'm always working on that too. I wanna continue to build something different and unique. And money is important, Kelly. I mean, people can talk about this all they want. I mean, I'm not in love with money and I'm not a greedy person and I don't worship money, but I do know money's important. And I wanna get to a point where I can give wherever I want to who I want, when I want, how much I want.
• 35:13
  and continue to do the things I want to do and not like have money be an issue in front of me. Like that's going to stop me. You have a perfect blend of passion with humility, and that's why you're going to succeed at everything you do. So how do you suggest the listeners maintain such high levels of passion consistently? And what advice would you give them to unleash their own unstoppable energy? All right. So we need to stop identifying with what we do.
• 35:43
  Like so many people identify with what we do, right? Like veterans, you see a lot of problems with veterans. So they come out of the military and they don't know who the hell they are. They lost their identity because they were identifying with what they did. Athletes, successful business people. And when you identify with what you do versus who you actually are, when that thing that you are identifying with crashes or has problems, you have problems. Your identity has problems. And I just want everybody to be clear on something. What you do is your vehicle.
• 36:12
  You establish who you are with a mission, your values, your standards, very important to do self-assessment and find out what you're passionate about. Like in a perfect world, if you could have it your way, who would you want to be? And then find vehicles, which is your profession, your hobbies, your relationships. Those are vehicles to get to your mission. So we got to stop identifying with what we do and use those as our vehicles. Because when that vehicle has a flat tire, runs out of gas, crashes, crashes, crashes,
• 36:39
  You can get out of that vehicle, you can hop into another vehicle and continue on with your mission. So really I want to basically get across that we need to really assess and find out who we are. And then what happens, it allows, this is what it did for me. I established my mission, which is all people are unstoppable to live in the life of their dreams. I established my values, which is the acronym VITALS. The first one being vibes matter and emotions are contagious, which I already mentioned.
• 37:03
  And then from there, I take my thoughts, words, actions, and the people around me, and I make sure that those are going towards my mission and not away. In alignment with my values and not out of alignment with my values. So it gives me easy binary decisions and eliminates chaos and confusion. So that's the focus.
• 37:25
  go into the vitals more. I'm sure it's in the book. I, you know what? I read the other rocket fuel and I think I may have ordered the wrong one. You know, there's another fricking one for EOS. And I'm like, which is a good mistake to make because Gino Wickman did a great job with that book. It's an entrepreneurial book. And I'm, I'm excited. Like when people like get confused, it's my, I take responsibility for that, but it's also a good confusion because when somebody gets that book, it helps them in their business. Then they get my book and it helps them in their life.
• 37:53
  You know, but the vitals is, you know, it's not in the book because I established them after the book on my journey and vibes matters and emotions are contagious is the first one. You going into an environment in a room, you or the other people in that room, their emotions are contagious. Your emotions are contagious. So you got to take ownership of this and understand that you can affect other people and their lives and then the people they interact with and it spreads out. So don't be the one that's responsible for toxicity and confusion and chaos.
• 38:20
  but also guard yourself against that from other people. So that's the first one. I stands, and vital stands for imagine, no lids, endless potential.
• 38:30
  So I don't want to ever limit myself and pull back on my imagination, despite the fact that we're all discouraged from imagining from a young age. T in the vital stands for take 100% responsibility, which you talked on and touched on already. The A stands for all setbacks of rocket fuel ties into the book, the rocket fuel law. L stands for leadership starts with me. You cannot lead other people until you lead yourself. You will not hold other people accountable until you hold yourself accountable.
• 38:58
  And the S stands for success is the only option. And how you identify success is up to you, but success is the only option. There's no other option. Like, we got to be successful. We got to continue to get better every day and achieve and make moves to get better, even if you have to pull back a little bit to go, you know, one step back, two steps forward. And those, what is that, six? I think six things. Vitals? Yeah. It's six. Those six things guide me. The A's, all setbacks are rocket fuel.
• 39:25
  So vibes, imagination, take responsibility, all setbacks are rocket fuel, lead and successful. I love it. I love that. That's fire right there, my brother. I appreciate you sharing that with us. I learn something new every day. I love doing this job. So much fun. Is there a particular book, movie, or event that has profoundly impacted your outlook on life and business?
• 39:48
  Yeah, I mean, you know, look, I don't agree with everything Grant Cardone says and how he acts. Sometimes he is his own man. But there are certain things like, you know, my brother one day in 2018 said, hey, man, you got to read this book. This dude sounds like you.
• 40:02
  And I was like, all right, let me take a look at it. It was the 10X rule. I read the 10X rule. And I saw in this book, there was one particular thing that really resonated with me and was that I validated my thing of I'm the best kept secret and I'm this big being. Like I have this ability. I know I was put here on this planet to do amazing things. But when I felt like this, and then in the real world, in my surroundings with friends or coworkers or my family and what have you,
• 40:32
  I felt like I was letting that, those, those, and again, I was letting them invalidate that. And it put me in a box. I allowed myself to be put in a box and shrink my desires, my imagination. And so when I read that book, it just, it, there was one particular lesson in there to talk about the people around you. If they don't get you, that's not your dreams and you're not crazy. What the problem is they're confused. Yeah.
• 40:57
  Do not let their confusion affect your desires and your dreams. Don't let them steal those things from you because they're confused. And maybe they've given up on their dreams or they've settled. And that one lesson changed everything for me. We were talking about Rocket Fuel and Gino Wickman. I just finished Gino's latest book, Shine, which is basically what you and me talk about. So he's gotten into the personal development now, which is what everybody does since he sold EOS.
• 41:25
  If you haven't read it yet, you might want to read it. It's pretty interesting. He's got 10 disciplines that are out of this world that are just so far-fetched, but man, are they true. One of them is take 130 days off a year and say no often. Gino is here from Michigan, so I get to see him a lot. I'm a learn-it-all. I read so much. I read a book a freaking week. And
• 41:50
  that 10 X rule. I have not read it. I don't know. I've read 10 X is greater than easier than two X. I've read time, uh, time machine from Chris Krohn. I've read buy back your time, which all are the same fricking book.
• 42:04
  But everybody has a little different spin on it. And I just, I learned one thing. That's my goal after reading a book. I want to learn one thing out of each book. So I will read your book because I got the wrong one and hit you back up because I'm sure it's fire. There's a calming...
• 42:23
  influence to you and i was expecting us to get on here today and screaming at each other as loving brothers you know you're philly i'm from detroit this is what we do have fun but this is enjoyable man i'm really really there's i'm enjoying you and and again i'm gonna tell everybody go over see mikey c rock and he this dude is here to help
• 42:44
  He has texted me nonstop. What can I do to support you? And then equally asked back. And that's the kind of relationship I'm looking to cultivate in this world. Give and take. Give and take. Not a one-sided relationship. So let's get into more things about you personally. When you're not working or speaking, how do you spend time relaxing or decompressing outside of your hobbies that you gave us with the golfing and what?
• 43:09
  Well, I mean, I like to read a lot. And then also sports, man. Besides hanging with the family, I love sports. I love watching my team. So I'm a Philly fan. I love sports in general. But I really just love following my teams. I got out of it for a while. And then I started to realize, wait a minute, man. That's a passion of mine. I mean, why not do it? You know? And so I like taking my kids to the games and creating experiences that I had when I was a kid. When I was little, like five years old, I remember my grandfather used to drive this school bus.
• 43:38
  And he would drive it from Chester County, Pennsylvania, into Philly with senior citizens and take them to the ballgame. And those folks sat in the top at the Veterans Stadium back in the day before they destroyed it. It was the 700 section. And they would sit up in the 700 nosebleed. And I would get in there and I would sit at the top. And I'd always sit at the top looking down on the field. And you could see the little players. They were little tiny little things, you know. And it was wild in the 700 section, man. Philly, if anybody doesn't know about this, that's where all the drunks hang out. And the people that yell and expect the players to hear them from all the way at the top and craziness.
• 44:08
  So, but I want my kids to experience that. And also now that I had some money and availability connections to sit closer and show them what it's like to work really hard and build relationships and then have advantages because of that. So I take my family to the games. My wife and daughter, we just went to the Phillies game Friday night. I took my son to the Sixers playing game against the Miami Heat. Sat four rows from the court, not courtside yet.
• 44:32
  but four rows from the court, hanging out with the Eagles. The Eagles players were in there sitting near us, like rowing in front of us, two rows in front of us, and just blowing my son's mind. And basically, you know, creating this experience where it's like, seeing what's actually possible.
• 44:48
  And so I really enjoy that. I really enjoy wowing people, you know, cause I don't think for me, like I still get wowed sometimes. It was, it was cool hanging out with Chevy this week and meeting him and hearing him talk, you know, his smart ass comments and stuff. And, but like, I don't get as wowed by it as I used to, but I want to create that experience for other people.
• 45:06
  I got to tell you, I went to Columbus, Ohio for the Michigan-Ohio State game in 2006, one versus two, and we got thrown out of the stadium before we even sat down. I mean, those fans were violent. The only other time I can compare is I was in Philadelphia for a Phillies-Mets game, and they were hauling people out of it.
• 45:31
  For fighting. They were throwing batteries in the field. It was insane. I'm like, you know, I'm from Detroit. I'm from the hood. And I'm like, what is that? Dude, they used to have a jail. They used to have a jail. They did. They were taking them and pulling them out. With a magistrate where they would just, people would get arrested. They'd come down underneath the veteran's stadium. They'd see the judge. And then they'd get in jail for a little while or whatever. And they would just roll them through there.
• 45:56
  Philly fans are gangsters, man. Gangsters. I got to tell you, man, you guys got the raw deal. I mean, I love Embiid, but I have to break that team up. I just don't see it winning. It just, I don't know what the problem is, but they should be better than what they are. And boy, I hate to get bounced by a New York team. Yeah, that was miserable. A lot of New York fans came to the home games in Philly, and people weren't really happy about that. Yeah, that's things. Who's been your biggest inspiration or mentor throughout your career?
• 46:26
  You know, I've had a lot. One of the things is I'm a good mentee from afar. Like I'll be mentored by people and they won't even have a clue who I am or that I'm even watching them. You know, and so I watch people like I watch Elon.
• 46:43
  I watch, obviously, Grant, when I read the book, and I started watching him from afar before he even knew who I was or I had a chance to meet with him. By the way, he wrote the foreword for my book, Rocket Fuel. I just studied him from afar. And when I got to meet him with him, I'm like, hey, listen, I know you may not know this, and a lot of people probably don't do this this way, but I studied from afar. I know more about you than probably you even remember about yourself, and I never even met you before. It was the first time I met you.
• 47:08
  And I think he appreciated that. I think people appreciate things when people study from afar, they're willing to read your books and invest in things before they even get a chance to meet you and want something from you or want to know something. And so I do a lot of that from afar. There's a guy named L. Ron Hubbard. I know, um,
• 47:25
  You know, people don't know who that is maybe, or they hear about some of the things that he built and all that and have issues with some of the stuff, whatever, because I think there's some bad press out there. But L. Ron Hubbard was an amazing author, amazing concepts that he developed on the mind. And I read that. And obviously the Bible. I mean, there's great... You know, the Bible is like one of the best business books out there. Personal relationship books out there, communication books out there. The problem is the Bible in most churches is...
• 47:53
  I don't believe that pastors of the churches do a good enough job helping people understand how to read the Bible and how to learn. And one of the things that people do, they'll read it and they don't understand the words and or the way the words are written. And then they blow out of the whole subject altogether. Whereas if they were taught how to actually learn, they could understand the concepts in the Bible better. And I don't think the church honestly does a good enough job with that part.
• 48:19
  Um, so, but, but the Bible obviously, you know, which is God's word. I mean, that's a big, big inspiration in my life. So you're saying the interpretation of the Bible is bad. So where else do we run an interpretation of the constitution is a problem, man. I don't want to hear people's interpretation. Just tell me how it is. I got to tell you, I've become. I've become.
• 48:39
  God-like, and I just sit back and all of a sudden Bible verses come to me. And it was, I just officiated a wedding in Fort Lauderdale. And I said, do you want God to be a part of this? Do you want God interpreted in your ceremony? And he said, yes. And he goes, what do you have in mind? I said, well, we're not going to do the, you know, love is patient, love is kind, first Corinthians. I said, but here's what usually happens.
• 49:06
  You're going to love this story. I said, inevitably, one is going to come to me. The next morning, literally, a note popped up out of nowhere with the Bible verse that I used in their wedding. And I just screenshot it. It was 5 a.m. I'm at the gym, and I just forwarded to them. And I said, just to prove you that God exists.
• 49:30
  we asked yesterday and he showed today. And I said, this is going to be the verse in your wedding. He said, how do you know? And I said, because I already know what I'm going to say. And you wait. And it was the perfect verse. It was love is a verb, basically, is what it was. And I can't remember the Bible verse, but it was like, anytime I need something, God sends me a Bible verse.
• 49:53
  And so I go and I go and I Google it and I look for the English interpretation and I read a bunch of the interpretations to make sure I understand what he's trying to tell me. So you're telling me your mentor is Jesus and I accept that. If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be? I mean, I would go right back to the thing. Well, there's a lot of things I would tell myself, but I think one of the main things is not identifying with what I do.
• 50:21
  find out who I am, lean into it unapologetically, be that one. And then, and then what happens, so many people are worried about what people think of them or their people would leave their lives. And I, I just became okay with that as an adult now. So as a kid, I would think I would really lean into, find out who I am, be that unapologetically. And if those that don't fit or align with it, don't like it, leave good. They're just not, they're going to hold you back anyway.
• 50:46
  And then that'll attract the people that matter and it can help elevate you and you can help elevate them and impact them. So that's number one. Number two, I would tell you this, this is important for younger people to hear, is that don't chase women at a young age. Figure out, like literally figure out how to build yourself, work on yourself to be the best version of yourself, figure out how to make money. And then women, the right women, when you establish who you are and you lean into it unapologetically, the right women will appear. Kelly, you and I talked about this on my show.
• 51:15
  And, and we were, and by the way, like we talk about, okay, well, we were the wrong women were around, we're chasing the wrong women. But at the end of the day, man, we really weren't the right people for the right women anyway. We have to work on ourselves. So this, this accomplishes a lot of things to work on yourself, figure out how to make money, establish yourself.
• 51:30
  And then the right women will appear. If that's what you're after, if you're after men, whatever, same thing for the ladies or however you roll, but, but work on yourself first, figure that stuff out and then let those come into your life. Because remember, I'll say this again, intention, when you set your intention, gives your attention direction. And when that happens, you know, the world is yours. You can accomplish whatever you want.
• 51:54
  That's so deep, man. I appreciate you saying that. I'm going to paraphrase that and I'm going to plug you again. I think what you're saying is find out what you're made of and pay attention to that. Not what you think you're made of. What are you made of? And that happens to be your podcast. So if you're loving this like I am, tune into his, rate his show, follow it, share it.
• 52:17
  This is deep, man. There's tremendous amounts of energy and love and positivity to you, man. And I commend what you're doing. But a couple more questions and we'll get you out of here. And I thank you for coming on the podcast. We're headed up to number one. Currently, we're looking at number 24 today. I'm getting to number one. And I just want to reiterate, become who you're trying to attract because that is...
• 52:41
  nothing's more truthful than that. And you're right. A lot of times we didn't deserve what we thought we wanted. We had to go, we had to go earn who we are as a person. And then your vibe attracts your tribe, which is your first thing in vital. So looking forward, what's one personal goal you're eager to achieve in the next few years?
• 53:00
  Yeah. So I want to build that one brand out there and I want to create it into a billion dollar brand. Like I really believe Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hansen came together for chicken soup for the soul. And then they made chicken soup for the blank, the blank, the blank, the blank. And they put that thing on a lot of different things. Right. And so I remember him saying one time, if you create a brand, make sure it can go on many different things, many different industries. So I want to create that one. And I want that one to be able to be placed on different things.
• 53:30
  and be able to license that out or what have you. So I don't know how, again, Kelly, I'll say this to you right now, I don't know how to do it. I'm figuring it out as I go. And I'm gonna get the right people in my environment that can help me do that. But my goal is to create that one and create it into a billion dollar company or billion dollar brand. And if I ever get there, great. If I don't, the journey's gonna be one hell of a ride.
• 53:51
  Well, I know I don't need to say this, but I'm going to say it out loud on the air for everybody to hear. You know, anything that I can do personally, man, I'm a text away. And I will gladly come to show that I'm that one. But I got to tell you, you know who Jimmy Rex is? Jimmy Rex is a thought leader out of Utah. I haven't met him yet, but I'm going on his podcast in two weeks. And his is, we are the they.
• 54:20
  And it was, you know, let them do it. You know how we say, let them do it, or they do it, they, they, they. And he just spread it out, we are the they. And when you say be that one or that one, it reminds me very similar. And I wonder if this is God telling me something because it keeps showing up. I pay attention to these things. These are signs. God's talking to me.
• 54:46
  So when I create that correlation, I'll send you the text that says, figured it out because there's something here. And that's it. That was a cheat code. You just saw behind the scenes, Kelly Siegel is like, Hey man, what's, what's got you. That's why when doing the work, you can pay attention to what the hell's going on to you. It's like a red flags aren't a circus. It's, but there's also green flags, green lights. Kelly. One of my, one of my prayers every day is God, please, please, please give me the thoughts to have.
• 55:16
  the words to speak, the actions to take, and the people to be in my environment that'll lead me to the mission to fulfill your will. Look, I create my missions based on what I'm downloading, what I'm getting from my relationship with God. And I don't want to do my own thing just to do my own thing for ego. I want to make sure I'm serving a greater purpose. So that prayer has helped me a lot because I don't always know what to think and what to say and what to do and who to hang around.
• 55:45
  Man, I like you, man. You're a good egg. What's one specific piece of advice you'd leave me with? Man, you know, I think I've hit on this thing over and over and over again is set your intention based on who you are and so that you can give your attention direction because attention is so expensive, man. Attention is so valuable. What you pay attention to dictates and causes and creates your future.
• 56:07
  So really be clear in who you are and make sure you're setting your intention on your own instead of picking somebody else's intention up or picking up their goals and chasing after somebody else's goals. Yeah, I think we'll name the show that intention drives attention, even though that I like that one. But intention drives attention. That's really cool.
• 56:28
  really good. I think that's why when you hear everybody, when they make a mistake, well, that wasn't my intention. I never understood that till just now. That wasn't my intention. Well, what was your intention? That's what I want to ask next. So last question, define harder than life in your own words.
• 56:50
  You know, I guess, you know, we can get really esoteric here, but what is life in general? Life is life to me. Let's start with that. What is life? Life is all the perceptions that we have, all the senses we have to the degree that you pick up and use and are aware of perceptions and senses you're living, which is life. Right. So to me, harder than life.
• 57:14
  You know, I don't know, man. I think beyond life is spirituality and, you know, going out beyond this life here that we're living on this planet. And, you know, my interpretation, harder than life. And I don't know. I don't know even where to go with that. Harder than life. Let me ask you this, Kelly. What does harder than life mean to you? Like, where did you come up with that? And then I might be able to answer that better.
• 57:36
  You know, what I came up with is the title of my book, and we had a lot of questions, and we had a bunch of options, and then somebody just said, harder than life, because everything I've done, I have been harder than life. You have to be harder than life. You being harder than life, right? Yeah. So it's about you. So yeah, yeah, I get it. All right. So yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, it's, again, puppet or puppet master. Yeah.
• 58:04
  Like if you're a puppet, you're not being harder than life, right? So being in control, taking responsibility allows you to be that puppet master. And that allows you to be harder than life. There you go.
• 58:16
  Yeah, you know what's funny? I asked you that question. That's what I love about this is we ask these questions and then I answer them in my own head. And every time I ask them, I answer them a different way as I'm a different person. So I grow. What I would tell you being harder than life is, is growing every day and shedding the old you instead of just being the same old, same old. And I find myself having a conversation with you thinking it would be one way.
• 58:43
  And it went totally different way. And I loved every minute of it. Instead of having separation, it was kind of malaise. No. People, go listen to What Are You Made Of? Follow Mikey C-Rock. This dude is genuine and authentic as they come. Don't hold it against him. He's from Philly. He's a really good dude. With an LA hat on, right? Yeah.
• 59:08
  Thanks for coming on. And as I said to you, man, holler at your boy if you need anything. That's how I found you. Somebody introduced me to you. You need anything. The answer is, heck yes, man. Thank you, Kelly. Appreciate you, man. Thanks, man. Love you.
• 59:23
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.