Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / The Last of Us Part 2 Special: Episode 6

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The Last of Us Part 2 Special: Episode 6 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the pin Ultimate the pin ultimate episode of our Last
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of Us Season two reaction mini series. Again, they are
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: not a sponsor. Shame, it's a real shame. But here
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: we are doing any Way out of love because the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: second Game is my favorite game of all time. They
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: are splitting up. I read another article recently that said
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: into three seasons, so really, yeah, this is part one.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: They said the next season is going to be longer
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: because I believe the exact quote was the narrative bomb
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: of Joel dying was too hard to get away from.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: So this season is like that. Okay, but they said
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: that we have more room to explore in the next
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: season and potentially the next But anyway, spoilers. Hopefully if
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you clicked on this, because I just gave you the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: biggest one, you've already caught up. You're already caught up.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: But we're going to spoil the most recent episode and
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: previous episodes of the second season of the Last of
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Us show, the first season, the game, first game, parts
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: of the second game. But I'm trying to avoid like
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: big game parts. So I have to tell you, I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: don't even know what they're going to do half the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: time anymore, So it could I don't know who knows, Yes, yes,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: this There's all only one more episode left in this season,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: so during this time we are not doing our Sex
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and the City, Watch React podcast or fiction ones to
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: give Christina some more breathing room. But we will come
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: back to those in June. And yeah, normally Smith and
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I watched these together, we didn't get to do it
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: this one, which is the same because you would have
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: laughed at how hard I cried.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I should have been there just to take pictures.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: It was bad, it was bad news. But this does
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: bring me to a funny story that I have. I
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: finally got to meet up with my mom for Mother's Day.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm so late, but we finally got to
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: meet up, and I told her I was honest, and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I said, one of the reasons I've been so busy
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: is for doing these last of Us watch parties and
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: it's just like a whole day, and so I don't
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: have time on Sundays to do it. Anyway. She I
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: told her this, and we were at a restaurant and
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: she like rested her head back on the booth with
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a groan, and then put her hands in front of
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: her on the table and rested her forehead on her
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: hands and said, how could they kill him? He's so attractive?
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I mean many people would agree with her and have
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: agreed with her.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I was not expecting this at all. A shocking take from.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: My mom, that's amazing.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I did not know she was watching it, and she
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: kind of she watched the last season and she loved it,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and when we got to the end, she said, oh,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a happy ending. Joel and Ellie get
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: to live happily ever after together. And I stayed very silent. Betrayal.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, she said, how could you not
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: tell me they.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Were going to do this betrayal?
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: But it was so funny. And then I told her,
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, Pedro Pascal is coming back,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: because she hadn't caught up on the most recent episode,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and she sagged in relief and was like, oh really,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And then I said, but really only for that, right,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Not coming back for like more than like a couple
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: of flashbacks, especially like as we keep going, I bet
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: that'd bring him at least once a season.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I think they'll bring him in. If we were sticking
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: to the game, this would be it. We wouldn't, right,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I bet they'll bring him him from one more at
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: least one more flashback, but I don't think much more
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: than that. But she it was so funny. She was
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: talking to me all about it and all her thoughts.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It was a wonderful time. But I just love her.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: First reaction was it.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Was to talk to you about ready to talk about it,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: and then she had to give herselves a moment and
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: then that was the statement, I love it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And there were people in the restaurant. There were
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: other people like looking beautiful at it. It was great.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: They were like, what's happening? People would understand, they would understand,
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: they would understand.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: But she was very She had a moment of intense
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: reaction and then anger, and then we just talked about it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well that's where we are with this episode. Actually,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we are kind of at the eulogy. So the way
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: these work is Samantha gives the recap and then I
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: go through my thoughts. So Samantha, would you like to
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: give the recap?
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Here we go, so we have antying opening I guess
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: with two children, like it took me a minute to
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: figure out what was going on, by the way, I
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: was like what, And they're like, the youngest one is
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: obviously brothers saying he's gonna, you know, use the belt,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: He's gonna hit me all these things, and the older
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: ones like, no, he won't touch you, I will get hit.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: So he sends him off to his room. And it
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: turns out it is younger Joel and Tommy, and obviously
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the father is abusive. The father comes in, he's a sheriff.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: You're like, what the hell or a police officer, and
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, bad news. And they had this hole
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: back and forth in which essentially Joel's challenging him. It's like,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: you're not touching him. I'll take it he didn't do
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: anything wrong, tries to lie. The father does something unexpected
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: and goes like, grabs a drink, brings one for him,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: and he sits down and then tells the story about
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: how he got punched in the face by his father,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: couldn't eat for weeks and all these things, and you're like,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: what the hell, And then you know a Joel responds
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: with and how could you do that to us if
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: you know how this feels. And he's like, I've never
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: hit y'all like that, I've never been this bad, and
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I've done better than my father. And then he goes
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: on to say, when you have your own, my hope
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: is that you'll do better than me. Cut two, we
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: have birthday scene to Ellie. Very cute come in. He's
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: talking to Seth at one point and you see them
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: trading off because he gets legos and then he's like,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I want this by tomorrow and they're like what. I'm
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: sitting there like what are we getting? Amo he says
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: vanilla or chocolate. Vanilla is faster. He's like, fine and vanilla.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And then he also gets like a bone marrow piece
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: and he's working on this guitar beautifully done, and gets
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: a painting of or drawing which is very famous drawing
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: into this game and have this moment and it turns
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: out it is Ellie's fifteenth birthday. He gets her a
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: kate that's his Happy Birthday Eli, which is a whole thing,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: but it gets so good. Ellie eats it with her
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: hands and talks about how good it is. He gives
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: her a present, which is the guitar with her drawing
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: on it, which is a moth, and they have a
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: little bit of a moment. It's very sweet moment. And
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: then we have this, oh yeah, before she had burned
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: her arms. This is where she's burned her arms, right,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: and Tommy brings it in. She's on like painkillers and suys.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to wear short sleeves. That's a whole
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: whole damn thing. And then a year later, for the
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: sixteenth birthday, this is where I got confused. We have
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: a moment and they're going exploring, and then we see
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: this whole cute view about how they need to go
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: exploring more often, all these things, and then he brings
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: her to the area after a fun conversation about birds
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: and bees and Jesse is mentioned here. And then as
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: they go up he has found the museum with dinosaurs
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: and astronauts, and they have this amazing scene, very heartfelt moment.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You love it. They love each other, having your great time.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: You have the moment where she hears the takeoff in
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the astronauts and gets her own helmet and beautiful and
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're already crying by this point, right, And
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: it wasn't good, Okay, and moving on. We go on
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: to the seventeenth birthday, where it becomes a little more
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: awkward and he hears noises. He's got okay. He hears
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: noises in her bedroom, busts through and turns out.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: He's with.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: A girl and they've been making out. And then also
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: baby a tattoo was involved, and he in drugs and
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: he's like, you're doing all of this all at once? Why?
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: And then they have this like blowout, and then then
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: he goes away, and he goes and we see Gail
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: and he has a conversation about, you know, a couple
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: of things, including about her tattoo, which is a moth,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: and he asks her what it is it's about, and
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: they come to realize it's about death when he, you know,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the father moment of like pretending I'm trying to figure
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: it out, and he thought it was a butterfly about
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: new life and all these things. But it is a
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: father daughter exchange. But it is getting more and more
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: awkward as the birthdays come as she is growing. We
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: jump ahead two years to nineteen and his birthday gets
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: to her after By the way, she's moved into the
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: garage at this point and she's practicing a whole scene
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: about trying to figure out what happened.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at the hospital, right, she's written questions. She wants
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: to ask him about what happens.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: But she doesn't quite get there yet, and we jumped
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: two years later and he takes her training train for
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: hunting and all of that stuff, and they have this
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: woman he kind of like, you know, he's giving her
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: like I would like to spend more time. This would
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: be nice if we could do these together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: But at that point we get an emergency call about
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: something happening and he tries to go and tells her
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: to go back to Jackson and she's like, hell, no,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: I'm not your daughter, I'm your partner. And he's like
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: all right, fine, and they go together and they come
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: uposus one Horde scene of a horse dragging a person
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: obviously who had died, had been eaten or gotten bitten,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: one of those two things, And then come up and
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: we meet Eugene, the infamous Eugene, who is like, I'm okay,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: but yeah I got bit. And at this point he's
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: like look, look, look, and Joel's ready, let's shoot him.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: Immediately he's like, we're sorry, he's like, no, no, no,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I need to see Gil, who is his wife. He's like,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I need to see Gil. I need to talk to her.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I need to tell her something. I have to tell
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: her something. And Joel's like, you know I can't do that.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: You're about to turn He's like no really, And then Ellie,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: with her empathy, was like, wait, do these tests. Let's
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: see how long you got figures out he's got time.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: She's like, I can go get the horse. You can
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: come my way and we can get him there before
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: he passes away and he can talk to he can
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: or before he becomes a zombie or needs to be shot,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and you can talk to he can talk to Gil.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And she's like, promise me. He's like I promise, and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: like all these things. So she goes off to do
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: this and they have this moment and he, Eugene and
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Joel are walking. Joel leads him to the water and
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Eugene knows for what's about to happen. He's like, man,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I need to do this. He's like I'm sorry, I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: can't let you. I have to protect my family. And
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: then he's like, what do you want to tell Gil?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: And he's like, I don't want to tell Gil and
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I need her to tell me that I'm okay. I
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: need her to talk me through this. I need her.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: It was a very sweet moment, and as we like
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: pan away, we come back to Ellie coming back with
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: a horse and he is he has shot Eugene and
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: he lies and says, there was no way we could
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: do anything about this. You know, we had to do
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: this right. He was all these things, and then he's like,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: we will tell Gil what she needs to hear, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: that's how it goes. And then they go back and
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: he tries to tell her all these things about how
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: he loved her and he was brave he shot himself,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: and Ellie was not having it, and then just says
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: everything that he did it was a lie. And she
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: ends up with him saying, you swore. I've seen that
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: look and I know you swore, And that's kind of
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: how that ends. Gail gets a good slap in the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: face of Joel, kind of deserved, honestly, and we have
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: a tried like we see the moment of what happened,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: and she talking to him. Essentially at this point they
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: haven't talked about anything else, and he knows that he
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: is lost because he knows that she knows he's lying.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: He's been lying all this time. They have another time
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: jump to that scene where she just faces him on
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: after the New Year's Eve incident, that all that shows
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and happens, and how he is Uncle Grumpy. All the
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: things went down at that point, and you see him
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: on the porch with his coffee with his al mug,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: which is also infamous in this world. And she walks up,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: stands at him and looks like she goes to her
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: garage area, but doesn't turns around and comes back on
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the porch and they have a heart to heart and
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: she asks them all the questions and he's like, She's like,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: this is your last chance. You have to tell me
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: the truth, and which he does tell her, Yes he
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: did kill them, Yes they could have had a cure. Yes,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: he selfishly made this decision. And he tells essentially, but
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: this is the price I will pay for what he
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: has done. And then he also says I would not
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I would choose this again. I would choose it all
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: over again to save you. She says selfish, and the
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: end says the quote, I don't think I can ever
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: forgive you for this but I would like to try
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: cut scene and we see Ellie coming back to the theater.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And rain present day. Yep, yeah, that's what That's what
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: destroys me, that scene, the porch scene. I cry the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: most of that scene. It wrecks me in the show,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: it wrects me in the game.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So this episode is called The Price, and if you
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: notice in the credits, it's two figures again because it's
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Joel and Ellie again. But this is, as I said,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the eulogy of Joel, this is where we're saying, like,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: don't get too excited, folks, goodbye, goodbye, my friend. But
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: it is also all about cycles of It's both cycles
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: of progress but also cycles of just you're stuck in
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the same thing. So the flashback that opens it with
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: young Joel and Tommy is not in the game. It's
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: alluded to very vaguely that their childhood was abusive, but
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: it's never made clear. It's never made specific. Tommy has
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: a quote where he says something like Joel's protection wasn't
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: worth it, and I always assumed that that meant what
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: they did to survive during the apocalypse, but it's possible
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he was talking about further than that, and there's a
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: couple of other offhanded things where you could interpret it
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: in that way. But you kind of see him already
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: having this, you know, kind of understandable, honestly tendency to
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: lie to protect someone, to resort to violence to protect someone,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: because he had started beating up the kids that were
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: selling drugs to Tommy. But I also think it's interesting
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: that his dad, who is a cop, says immediately like,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: do you think I wouldn't find out about this? Like
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: it's a lie that had a lot of room to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: fall apart. It was easy to verify that that was
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: not what happened, but he was willing to do it,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and he was willing to take the pain for it.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: But also this whole idea of you know, I hope
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: you do better than me. And you do see instances
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of Joel. A lot of people have written essays about
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: this that I've read that you see a lot of
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: instances of him when he's in Jackson where he's really
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: trying to make life instead of death, Like he's instead
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: of like doing violent things. He's carving all these like
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: owls statues, and he's making a guitar and he's brewing alcohol,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: like he's a very like he's making things. So he
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: did have progress in that way, and we'll talk a
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: bit more about some of the other progress yet. But
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you also see the watch, the infamous watch on his
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: dad's wrists, so that is being passed down. I think
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: it's interesting again that Ellie did not take the watch.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: She took the gun, So it's sort of what are
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you picking up from what's being passed down? And we
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: do see like a couple instances of characters with their children,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: like Seth, who we met first as a homophobic character,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: is talking about his grandkids and how they would love
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: the legos that Joel found and how he was a cop,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: which is Joel visually was like oh yeah, oh no,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: but like you see, he cares about his kids. And
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: then you see Tommy with his kid. And now you
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: have Joel who has really assumed the role of Ellie's father,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: even though she's kind of shafing at it because like
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: at first it was all about protection and now he's
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: doing the like, oh you got a tattoo, very very
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: paternal kind of action. But the episode is told mostly
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: through at Ellie's birthdays. It's a series of flashbacks told
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: mostly through her birthdays, and it does start with her fifteenth,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and that's when we see I just kind of wanted
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: to mention I thought it was funny that Seth is
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: making Ellie's cake when he's homophobic, and there's kind of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that whole you know, I won't make cake for gay people,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: so kind of made me laugh in the sad way.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: But yes, yeah, but he's the one that makes the cake.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: And that's when we do get the the relevation that
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: she has burned her arm purposefully because she wanted to
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: wear short sleeves, and she she says in there, it's
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: they're giving us a lot of hints about how reckless
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: she is, or like how she makes impulsive decisions, because
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: she says like I just saw it and then I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: just did it, So we're seeing more of that. But
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: then we do have a very sweet scene where she
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: eats the cake with her hands, which I think is
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: supposed to be like she grew up in the Apocalypse
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and so whatever. But then Joel plays the song the
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: whole song for her, the Pearl Jam song Future Days,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: which she couldn't play in a previous episode because she's
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: still stuck in this trauma, but he plays that for
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: her and with the guitar that he made, which, by
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the way, the bone that you mentioned is for the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: bone bridge through guitar, So he made this guitar and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: he has kind of a cute stumbley speech about how
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: much work he put into it, and she's just like, oh, God,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: sure plays something for me. So they have this really
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: nice moment and then it jumps to the next birthday
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: and this is the one. This scene. Oh everyone knows.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Everyone knows it. Even the museum that this scene is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: based on, was like, I can't believe, how amazing, how
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: did you do this? But anyway, he takes Ellie. Joel
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: takes Ellie to a museum that he found and there
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: is a big t Rex statue out front that Ellie
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: climbs to the top of, which, by the way, is
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: a missible thing. I missed it the first time I
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: played it, but you can climb to the top. They
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: did cut out I think they shot it, but they
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: cut out the scene where they go and look at
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: all the other dinosaurs. But that's where the Indiana Jones
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: hat easter egg that we mentioned comes from, because she
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: picks up a hat makes Joel wear them, and dinosaurs
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: wear them and all this stuff. But then they get
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: to the space exhibit, which is as we know, Ellie
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: loves space, and it is really sweet because it shows
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: he knows the things she loves the most. He knows
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: she has this interest in dinosaurs and this interest in space.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: In the game, he started reading the comics she loved
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Savage Starlight, which you can see posters of in her room.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: But he says to her, would you like to go
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: to space? And then shows her this capsule that's in
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: the museum and says, you can't go to space without
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: a helmet. The helmet she chooses is from It's a
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Gemini helmet, which is one of the helmets that was
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: used during the Apollo explosion that she talked about a
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: couple episodes ago. But so that's not the greatest symbolism.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: But also Jemini means duality, and that's what a lot
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: of this season is about Ellie versus Abby. All of
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: these things. I hats off to everyone who's written about this.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I love it. And then he gives Ellie. He tells
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: her to close her eyes and gives her a tape,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: a cassette tape and she puts the earbuds in, puts
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: in the tape and it is the sound of a launch,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: a space launch, and she closes her eyes and she
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: has this really beautiful moment where she's in her imagination
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: and she's thinking about what it would look like to
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: go to space, which I think is very It's both
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: very like one of the last hang ons of her
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: childhood and being so interested in that, but I think
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: it's also very escapist because if you lived in that world,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I would see being like, you know what, if I
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: can go it out her space? Right, that sounds great,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: but alas, you must come back down. Also, Samantha gave
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: me that tape for one of my birthdays and I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: loved it.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Did you listen to it?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't know if I did or not.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh So they had this beautiful moment and then
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Joel asked, did I do okay? And she says, are
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you kidding me? That was like the best thing ever.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: And she's like kind of teared up, and he's kind
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: of teared up, which I think is really sweet because
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: he's obviously really happy that she's happy. And it's interesting
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: to me because in the the actors were told not
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: to play the games. I did, right, I believe Bella did.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I think young Mazino has, like he had already when
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: he auditioned, so some of them have, but I know
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Pedro Pascal has not. He tried to, and then I
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: think he got too scared.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: He was too bad at it, too bad at it.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But anyway, it's interesting because in his kind of
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: retelling of how why Joel was reacting this way, it
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: was that he was so happy. He made her happy,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and that's the best thing you can do for someone.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: But I've always kind of interpreted it as he needed
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: the affirmation, like the he needed somebody to tell him, oh,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I'm doing okay. Yeah, yes, I am still doing the
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: right thing here in this story. And we'll talk about
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that a little bit more later. I do think he
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: was happy for her. I think there was space for both,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: but that sort of like always needing because he has
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other moments like that in this episode
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: where he's like, we should hang out more. This is
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: so fun, we should like. He just has a lot
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: of stuff like that, and then also, yeah, just a
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: hammer home. If you haven't heard the song Future Days,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: look up the lyrics and you'll be the future days
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: never come out of the way. He just said that.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that's like that scene is one of
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the most beautiful sections of the game. It does include
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: another part they cut out where they go to another museum. Oh,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I am sad they cut that out now that I
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: think about it, because they go into the museum but
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Joel can't get in. Ellie's small enough to get in,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: and she's trying to find another way to exit, and
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: this bore wild boar keeps like attacking her, and it's
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: really scary because it's dark and you just hear this sound,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and there's all these scary messages on the wall, like
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: they let the children starve and all this stuff, and
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: you come out at one point from crawling and there's
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: just this all of these a statue of wolves surrounding
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: a moose and it's so symbolic and so creepy. And
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: then Ellie finds this the firefly emblem, and underneath it
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: said it was hope was all the lie. And then
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Joel finds his way in, and it's just real awkward
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: because she's like, should I bring this up? And he's like,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: please don't bring it up. But they kind of have
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: that moment in the show when she sees the fireflies
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: around the tree and it's like something is not right.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: But yes, that scene is a beautiful scene, but it
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: does happen right after the whole Nora thing, where after
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Ellie tortures Nora. It's that scene. So some people like
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: really hated that pacing. I liked it because it was like,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I need a moment. Then we skip
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: to the next birthday, which is full of the teenage
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: stuff that you mentioned, and we get the return of
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: cat Kat, Ellie's X that was in the first episode,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: and I was so excited because she's like a mention
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: in the game. She's in Ellie's journal, but you could
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: miss it completely if you don't read her journal. So
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to see her. But as I said,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: she is the one that gave Ellie her tat too,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and I love how she was like, it will look
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: better once I fill it in, as if that was
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: why Joel was mad. But yeah, So basically, Joel came
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: home early to celebrate Ellie's birthday with chocolate cake this
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: time the fancy stuff.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: The fancy one, and.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: There was Kat and Ellie seemingly having an intimate physical moment,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: and Ellie has gotten the tattoo, is smoking pots and
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: he's just outraged and says, like all the teenage stuff
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: at once. Then it is interesting because of how the
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: show started, with how his dad reacted to Tommy getting the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: weed and that whole thing, and how he reacts, and
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: he is he does feel like a very like conservative
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: parent here. I mean, I get it. I'm not a parent,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: but I understand if you come home and all this
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: stuff that's happening, right, But they have this kind of
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: fight about it. He says she's experimenting with girls, which,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: by the way, there was a funny scene in the
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: previous birthday where he was like, it's something going on
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: between you and Jesse and she was like oh no, no, no,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: no no. He was like, oh, I've got a key
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and I for this, and she was like, no, you
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: really don't. But she says it wasn't an experiment, and
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: he says, I'll come back when you're more yourself. She's oof, oof,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: oof oof, and that's when she tries to move into
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the garage, and this I knew was going to have
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: a ton of Easter eggs in it, and it did
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: because when she's like packing up her stuff. The album
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: cover the album you can see is an album that's
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: famous from being in Kill Bill. She's very famously pretty
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: revenge oriented story. There's a bunch of stuff like that. Also,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: again shout out to the Easter egg videos that somehow
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: make these videos within like five hours. But anyway, that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: is one of them. But he does ask about her
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: tattoo after they have this fight, and he kind of
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: she says it's from it's from like a dream, a
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: book about dream she read. He kind of surmises it
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: means growth and stuff, doesn't really ask her. It's just
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, like growth and stuff, and she's
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: like like change and sure. But the next day he
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: finds Gail the town on Arapist and she is like,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: oh no, it means death. And if you think about
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the symbolism of a moth, to me, it would be
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: like it's death. It's drawn to light that you can
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: never get a lot of people have written about how
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: maybe it symbolizes sort of an addiction or something like
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: with her addiction to getting revenge. Some people think it's
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: the like look to the light, fireflies. Yeah, kind of
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: whole thing. But if you look at her sketches, because
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: she has a lot of sketches of this moth, which
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: he Joel did, I think a pretty good job when
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: he made it in her guitar on the bridge, it says,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: on those sketches, you have greater purpose. And she puts
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: that tattoo over her bite, and she has been living
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: with this guilt and survivor's guilt of I got this
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: bite and I always thought I was going to die
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: and then I didn't, and I've been waiting to be
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the next person to die and I don't. So I
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: think it's very purposeful that she put it over her bite.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Also, Gail's book that she's reading, Earth Abides, I think
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: it's called in It It is a very it's about
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the apocalypse, and in it, the last man who can
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: read dies, and so the idea is no one will
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: learn how to read once he dies. And so I
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: think the implication is once Gail dies, they aren't going
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: to have mental health and I'm not going to have
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a therapist. Ay.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm surprised anybody's doing mental health.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I know that is new new to the show, but
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I do love Gail, so I'm very happy. So this
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: is like, I feel, this is sort of my soap box,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: one of two I have too, but they're short, I promise.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I feel Joel wants Ellie to be who he wants
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and not who she actually is. He only wanted the
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: answer from Gail that he wanted. He didn't actually want
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the answer, He just wanted the reassurance and affirmation I
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: was talking about. And I think that the last of
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: us fandom, not all of us, obviously, but a lot
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: of it is kind of like this too. We all
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: liked Ellie when she was under his protection and looked
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: up to him, but now a lot of folks are
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: like this. I'm grateful, and I just sometimes I'm like,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: did I wasn't really a rebellious teenager, but I feel
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: like a lot of people were, and you can't connect
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: with that at all. He's done his wrongs, which we'll
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: get into, and what he did girls like why, that's
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: really cool and to Eugene to his face. Yeah yeah,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and we'll get to that more too, because it was
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: really unnecessary for multiple reasons. But yes, people are often like, oh,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Joel saved your life, Ellie, what are you doing. But
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: she was ready to die. However you feel about that,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: she was ready to die. She thought she was going
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: to die when she got bit, and she did say
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: she was waiting for her turn. Also, you can see
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: my recent episodes on Cool People Who Do Cool Stuff,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: which was a two parter about vaccines. But it's frustrating
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: to me about how individualistic people can be about this
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: instead of thinking about the community. And I've been guilty
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: of this too for a long time. I didn't get
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the flu vaccine because I was like, oh, oh, I
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: don't get the flu, and then somebody was like, yeah,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: it's not about you, it's about other people who might
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: get the flu from you. But I mean, Joel could
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: have gotten a vaccine if it worked in this world,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and that's honestly about the best they were going to do.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: And it's gone. I mean it's gone. So Joel keeps
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: saying like he understands, but he doesn't. He says to Ellie,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I understand that he doesn't. He says to Eugene, I
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: understand that he doesn't. He said that in the first
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: season too. You can there are different levels if I
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: can relate to I've had a loss and I can
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: relate to, but I feel like he's fundamentally actually misunderstanding
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: right or not willing to even try. And I did
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: forget one of the most important parallels in the last episode,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: which was Joel's choice to save Ellie versus I called
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: her Eliza, But it's Elise, Elise's choice. Who is the
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: woman at the beginning who was like my son Leon,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: we see all him and l's what he said, that's
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: what he asked for, and that's what we did. So
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: she listened to the choice he made and made this
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: very painful decision for the community. And that's the thing
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: is like the agency. I think Ellie's so angry because
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: agency is being taken from her at every turn, Choices
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: are being taken from her because even like you know,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Joel and Marlene. I think we're going to get more
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: of this in the next season. But there's kind of
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: a bigger thing that happened behind the decision to just
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: go ahead with the vaccine. But Marlene was like, you
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: know what, you're right, Let's wake her up and ask her,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: and then Joel just shoots her. Shoots Marlene. So I
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: think that Joel loves Ellie. I believe that's true, but
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I also think that whole thing was kind of about
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: him and not about Ellie, and I think her revenge
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: quest is more about her than it is about Joel.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: But I have so many thoughts. I have something that
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: I have had. Somebody, at least one listener wrote into
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: me and was like, you can't understand because you don't
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: have a kid. I mean, I guess that's true, but
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I kind of like I can be empathetic to things.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that would have been easy, but he
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: killed life thirty people, right, So But I just bring
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that up because in the show, they added in a
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: line that Joel doesn't have in the game where he says,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: you know you will never He tells Ellie you'll never understand,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: basically imply because you don't have a kid, and until
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: you have a kid, you will never understand what I did.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: But just just a reminder Ellie knew Marlene.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Just a reminder, like, and the story was even deeper
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: that the mother he knew her mother.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, connection, just just remind you, right, Yeah. But
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: also like I think it's I like that Dina gave
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Ellie the choice that Joel took from her too. Where
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: she's like, I'll go back if you want. I'll go
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: with you if you want. But she gave that choice
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: to Ellie. But that does bring us to our infamous
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Abby Abby Abby, because her choice was kind of taken
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: from her, but now she's made her own and it's
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: spiraled out into this whole thing that we're going to
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: be seeing all of the consequences of. But yes, this
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: does bring us two lies, the lies we tell. And
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: so Ellie has been stewing on this, been thinking about
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: there's so many holes in Joel's story. I have all
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: these questions. The tension is rising between them. They finally
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: go on patrol because he lets her. He finally is like, okay,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: I'll let you go, and when something actually happens, he
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: tells her to turn around and she says, I'm not
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: your kid, Joel, I'm your partner. And so this is
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: when we get to Eugene's death because they find Eugene.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: He's been bitten. He says, I got an hour, let's go,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: let me talk to Gail and then you can kill me.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Like he was very he knew what was up, but
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: he wanted to hear her final words and have his
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: final words, and Ellie does this test and it's like, yeah,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: he's got time, let's do it. And she looks at
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Joel and he's like, no, I promise, we'll do it.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: You go get the horses. I will walk you down.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And the thing that's really gets to me about this
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: scene is technically Joel was the only one at risk
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: of infection because Ellie was fine. So I were I
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: guess we're to assume he didn't want anyone to find
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: out she wasn't at risk of infection, or he's being
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: too overprotective, or he's just like set in his ways
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: and doesn't care, and that's it doesn't have room for
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: this empathy. I mean, I was even thinking about it
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: on my last rewatch. I was like, you know, Eugene
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: could have been immune. We don't know for sure, right,
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think he was, but he could have been.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Well. He said at one point he was cold. He
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: make you cold. But there could be the argument, and
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: I will say this that he knew bringing Eugene back.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: What if he turns and then attacks Gail or Gail
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: does something to let him go because she doesn't want
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: to see him shot, and then he goes into the
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: village like there's there are other risks, but it does
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: seem rather cold.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Very yeah, very and he so he takes his Eugene
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: to a very scenic place and kills him, shoots him
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: in the back of the head, and then lies to
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Gail and he tries to control what Ellie's gonna say, right,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: because he's like, yeah, I had to do it, there's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: no choice, and he yeah, completely makes up this whole
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: story for Gail, like, oh yeah, the last he just
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to tell you he loved you, and he did
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: it himself. And he keeps saying like it was the
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: right thing to do. Meanwhile Ellie is clearly stewing over there.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But anyway, this does recontextualize the conversation Gail had with
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Ellie about last moments, because Gail says, you know, the
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: last moments shouldn't define our whole relationship, but they often do,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: and now knowing she was robbed of that. But so
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Ellie hears this and has had enough and tells Gail
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: what really happens, and Gail slaps Joel and then Ellie says,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you swore, which was a very purposeful choice to you
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: swore versus promise, because now we're referring to the fireflies
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: and what Joel said happened with the fireflies. And it
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: is also sad if you think about it, that when Eugene,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: right before he dies, he says, I just want to
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: see her face, and Joel's like, oh, if you love someone,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: you can always see their face.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was me.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: And then guess what happens. The last thing Joel saw
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: was Ellie's face.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And this is a scene that got cut out
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: of the game, but Ellie has a lot of tense
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: moments with Joel where she'll say, if only they had
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: a cure, right, if only they had a cure, And
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: this is I think her survivor was guilt of, like
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: if only Eugene had had a cure, he could have lived.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: This brings us to the porch scene. The infamous porch scene.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: You do have a moment that's not in the game
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: with the POV from Joel about this party, this New
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Year's party where Maria and he have a suite. But
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, he'll be dead tomorrow. Conversation. Tommy's
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: like see you next year, and I'm like nope, yeah,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: oh no. Uh. But the porch conversation. I can't. It
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: destores me every time. This is the last memory Ellie
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: has of Joel. This is the last memory as an
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: audience will probably have of Joel unless they bring it back.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: But it says she walks by, and then she comes
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: back to the porch to talk to Joel after they've
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: had this open altercation in front of everybody in the town.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: And she starts it with asking about kind of small talk,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: but then she starts it with asking for independence. She's like,
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: I never want to hear you tell me about what
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: patrols I can do again. I never want to do
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: all this. And then he asked her about Dina and
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: the kiss that they had, and you do see his
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: growth here because he doesn't seem to think it's an experiment.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: He's like, oh, she would be lucky to have you.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: So he did grow in that way, and he did
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: agree to the patrol thing. They were supposed to patrol
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: together the next day.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: But then she just can't pretend. Ellie can't pretend things
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: are normal anymore, and so she asked him a bunch
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: of her questions about what happened at Salt Lake City
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: with the fireflies and Joel still can't even say it.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: In the game, he could say it, but he never
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: was able to voice it out loud, to say it
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: out loud as Gail asked him to in the first episode,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: he just nods and he admits that yes, there could
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: have been a cure, which up ended a lot of fandom,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: by the way, because they're like really like yes, but anyway,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: because it was kind of did we weren't sure if
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: he believed there could have been a cure, but in
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: here it's clear he believed there could have been a
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: cure and killed Marlene, killed all these the fireflies, lied
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: to her about it, and she Ellie basically saw the
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: same look in his eyes when he lied about Eugene
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: that he had when he lied about the firefly. So
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: that's that was her final piece of evidence. And she says,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: you took that from me. I was supposed to die there,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: and you took that from me. You took that from everyone,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And he says, I know, and that's the price I'll pay.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: But he also says the price in his head is
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: that Ellie won't want to be with him around him anymore,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: when literally everyone else Abby included like all of her crew.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: The price is not what you're thinking, my friend, right,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: But he does say I'll do it all over again.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: I do it all over again. And this is where
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Ellie calls himselfish. And I do think, like going back
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: to what I was saying earlier, there's no doubt in
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: my mind that he cares about her and she cares
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: about him at all. But I think that he's he's
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: so he has so much trauma from what happened to Sarah,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: his daughter, that he that's all That's why he was
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: like the prices, you won't want to be around me anymore.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: That's what he's thinking about. He just can't stand to
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: lose her. And he says, you know, when it's your return,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I hope you do better than me, just like his
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: dad said. And this is also interesting because in the
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: context of Ellie's one of the big scenes from the
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: previous season was when she says everyone's always left me,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: everyone except for you, and her fear of being alone
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: and having this kind of intersection of where that rubs
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: against each other in conflict. But yeah, as you mentioned,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: there's also the famous al mug he does. He has
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: a car think of an owl, and there's been a
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: lot of breakdown of what the symbolism of that might mean,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: which seems to be mostly people think Joel thinks he's
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: really wise, but he's really more violent than he thinks,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: is right. But yes, you can interact with that. In
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the game, you basically walk through his whole house and
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: could pick up these items that you saw that remind
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: you of him, and the cup is one the museum
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: brochures one. Oh yeah, but that's also why she put
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: the coffee grounds the coffee beans on Joel's grave, which
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: is that's also something very telling of when you lose someone,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: that last thing that you talk to them with or
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, it kind of resonates with you. But
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: he did love coffee, so I'm sure he was a
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: big fan. I love that was a good good thing
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: to put on his grave.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Well, he does say you I would be I'm embarrassed
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: to what I had to trade for this, So that
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: does imply yes, yeah, but.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Once again I'll say it, you've never know. The last
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: time you'll see someone in this episode is very much
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, that brings us back to the theater.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: After Ellie has said I don't know if I can
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: forgive you for this, but I'd like to try. And
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: that's one of the most painful things is she never
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: got to try. And again, as someone who had a
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: bad relationship with my dad when he died, it is
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: it just it's hard to let go. So one thing
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: about the scene that's different from the game is that
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: it's two scenes combined. So the porch scene is combined
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: with the scene that happens in the middle after Nora,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: where actually Ellie ran away to Salt Lake City and
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: found the evidence herself and she found like all these
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: old tape cassettes about what happened, and then he finds
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: her and then it kind of plays out similarly, and
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: then you get the porch scene at the end of
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: the game. When she returns to the theater. In the game,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: she is covered in blood and traumatized. I guess we'll
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: see she's not covered in blood, but traumatized. I would say, probably,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean that's what we're gonna one more
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: episode left. We're gonna see is Ellie doing better than Joel.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: We don't know. I do think like this whole idea
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: of no one knows what they're doing and justifications is
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: interesting because Joel's dad was very much justifying himself, and
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: then Joel was doing that too. And it's also interesting
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: because when I did forgive my dad, it was after
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: he died, but when I did it was in part
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: because I knew more of his past and I was like, oh,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: I can see right where this came from. And I
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: also just shout out to Ellie the courage of confronting someone,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: because she I think it was she did know it,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: but it was nice. Like, if you're alone in the
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: world and there's somebody that you like and it's going
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: to protect you in this kind of father daughter dynamic,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: then confronting that and possibly losing that is very scary.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: But anyway, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Maybe we'll see you again.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: My mom would listen. I was crying to everybody. I'm
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: right there with you. This is how I cope, this
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: is how I cope. I'm very excited, but I am
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: also I'm nervous because they have so far to go
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: and I don't know how they're gonna end it. But
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: I did notice the Ferris wheel is in the The
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Fairest Wheel is in the next week on That's like
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: a big point in the game. Mm, well, you'll see listeners.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: We'll stay tuned for our our take on the finale.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: But yes, in the meantime, please email us if you
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: would like to reach us. You can email us at
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Hello at stuff Iever Told You dot com. You can
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: find us on lue Sky, Mopster podcast, or on Instagram
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. We're also
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. We have a tea public store, and we
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: have a book you can get where we get your books.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Thanks and always to a super produced Christina, our executive
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Brusa Maya, and our contructor Joey.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Steffan Never Told You the projection of by Heart Radio.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: out the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or if you
• 53:51
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• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah