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The Worst of the Muppets - It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

0:14
Hello and welcome to The Worst of The Muppets Holiday Edition
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presented by toughbigs.com. We all know that The Muppets
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have made some of the greatest film specials and TV episodes in
0:24
history, but everyone makes mistakes.
0:27
Even Kermit the Frog. In this podcast miniseries,
0:30
we'll be taking a closer look at some of the worst holiday
0:32
specials The Muppets have ever been a part of.
0:35
You will wish that these specials had never been born.
0:38
This week we'll be talking about It's a Very Merry Muppet
0:41
Christmas movie in which Kermit exists, does not exist, and then
0:45
exists once again. But before we get into this
0:48
mess, let's meet our special guest.
0:50
She's an actor and a playwright. And almost as exciting, she's
0:54
married to me. Please welcome Sarah Elizabeth
0:57
Grace of the podcast. Hi.
1:00
Sarah. Much like Whoopi Goldberg, I am
1:03
the only woman in a sea of men. Oh, well, accurate.
1:08
That's probably why she started that other show.
1:11
The view, she didn't start. The view she didn't?
1:13
No. That was Barbara Walters also.
1:15
She was there at the beginning, too.
1:16
What do I know? I'm just a I'm just a man.
1:18
So she's she's God, right? We'll get to that.
1:22
That's a whole thing that we have to unpack.
1:24
We got unpacked that. Before we get into who or what
1:28
Whoopi Goldberg is, I have to 1st apologize to you for making
1:33
you watch. It's a very Merry Muppet
1:34
Christmas movie. Can I tell you, if we had
1:36
watched that when we were first dating 107 years ago, I probably
1:42
would have found a lot of things to appreciate about it, because
1:47
I was so desperately into you that I would have found a way to
1:52
make this movie work and it's so much better to hate on it
1:55
together as a as a Scorpio and a Capricorn.
1:58
We can also unite and hate and boy like we were silent the
2:02
entire film and then after so that we could wait until this
2:06
moment to talk about how bad that.
2:09
Movie is. I can't wait to break it wide
2:11
open for you. So what?
2:13
What I've been asking other people on this podcast is what
2:16
is your history with this this specialist movie?
2:18
Do you recall seeing it for the first time this this was your
2:20
very first viewing? I had never even heard of this
2:23
movie like I'd heard it referenced when you would speak
2:26
about like letters to Santa or there.
2:31
There's certain Muppet plot holes that I just have missed.
2:35
And this came out in 2002, so I would have been in, I assume
2:39
this was December of 2002 that it came out.
2:41
It actually came out on November 29th, 2002.
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OK, so I just turned 14, ha ha. And which is means I'm old to
2:51
probably a lot of listeners as well because we're old now And
2:56
so this was definitely not on my radar.
2:59
Which later will be interesting when we talk about the with the
3:01
content of the movie entails. So yeah, I think it was just too
3:05
much of A devotee to Muppet Christmas Carol to have any
3:07
other Muppets Christmas specials really be of interest to me.
3:10
But it was also in 8th grade, so I wasn't tuning in and my
3:15
parents probably weren't like there's no such thing as DVRS
3:19
really, like some people had TiVo, but that was it.
3:22
So unless you were there to watch it, you didn't see it.
3:25
It didn't. Exist.
3:26
That's true. And I mean, like you said, I've
3:31
probably brought this up too many times.
3:32
Every Christmas I feel like I say like, well here there's so
3:35
many Christmas Muppet productions that we could watch
3:39
and. Never brought this one.
3:41
Up. I'm sure I bring it up and then
3:42
never actually go like, but we can watch it.
3:44
It's like it's, it's on the list.
3:46
It's always on the list. I You are a liar because there
3:49
there's only one bad Muppet Christmas special that you even
3:52
actually pitch, which is a Sesame Street Christmas.
3:55
Yeah, a special Sesame Street Christmas, which I unironically
3:58
love. Yes, and I've seen it once or
4:01
twice. Right.
4:02
I would not normally force you to watch a terrible Muppet
4:08
Christmas thing. Also Mr. Willoughby's Christmas
4:10
tree, of course, which I'm a little peeved that wasn't my
4:13
special that I get to watch, but it's because I actually find
4:16
good things about it, so maybe I was not the right.
4:18
Yeah, that's not the right. That's not the point of this
4:20
whole podcast. We got one here to complain.
4:23
I would be defending soccer channings, bad Swedish accent,
4:26
been like, you know what, At least we have anything with Liz
4:28
and Nielsen at all. That should be grateful.
4:30
That is true. Well, let's let's talk a little
4:33
bit about what is a very Merry Muppet Christmas movie.
4:36
As, as I said it, it aired on NBC.
4:39
Excuse me, NBC, not ABC. Which is weird that there's all
4:42
these NBC references throughout this whole thing.
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And this 'cause this happened. This movie came out in 2002,
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which is that weird time when The Muppets were owned by the
4:52
German company EMTV. Did you even know that The
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Muppets were owned by a German company called EMTV?
4:59
No, I did not, Joe. Oh no.
5:01
Oh, Ilsa, yes. No, that was that weird time.
5:05
So they they worked with Disney on certain things like
5:08
obviously, you know, Muppet Christmas Carol is a Disney
5:10
production, but they weren't owned by Disney yet.
5:12
This is one of the reasons why this special is not available to
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stream on Disney Plus because I I presume that NBC Universal
5:18
owns the rights to it. It is also notable for bringing
5:23
The Muppets back to the Muppet Theatre the first time pretty
5:27
much since, you know, the the early 1980s, and for bringing
5:31
back some characters that were previously silenced because of
5:34
the passing of their performers, including Rolf the Dog, Scooter
5:38
and Janice. They had been they had been
5:40
silent. You have a look of confusion on
5:41
your. Face No, you're totally right.
5:43
I was just. Well, I I did not watch Muppets
5:45
From Space or Muppets Wizard of Oz, so I can't speak to whether
5:51
they were performed in those movies.
5:52
But yeah, that's that's a major trivia point.
5:55
Yeah, and you know, really it's like Scooter had a couple of
5:58
lines here. Rolf makes a background
6:00
appearance there. It's like they're they weren't
6:02
gone, but definitely for Scooter and Janice, they were both
6:06
performed by Brian Henson in this movie.
6:09
And this is, I think is the only time he ever performed those
6:11
characters. But there was obviously an
6:13
attempt to like let's start bringing these characters back
6:15
in the fold. Speaking of which, it's also
6:18
notable for being Eric Jacobson's first real big role
6:24
as Frank Gaza's characters. Yeah, he has a lot to do in this
6:27
movie. Yeah.
6:28
Yeah. So we'll get into all of that as
6:31
well. My tagline for this movie is do
6:33
you wish The Muppets turned into a horrible send up of It's a
6:36
Wonderful Life 2/3 of the way through?
6:38
Well do we have a movie for you? And by The Muppets, I don't mean
6:41
like the collective Muppets. I mean the movie from 2011, the.
6:44
Muppets. Well, OK, so let's talk about
6:46
that first since you brought it up.
6:47
So this is something that a lot of Muppet fans are aware of, but
6:50
you, not being in the Muppet fan community like I am, came to
6:55
this conclusion on your own. You said it as we were watching
6:57
the. Movie.
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It was literally the first scene where Kermit is obviously very
7:01
upset walking through the Muppet Theater, and it was like, what's
7:04
going on? And he's like, don't talk to me.
7:06
And then he presumably walks in the snow to sit on a bench to
7:11
die. What?
7:15
And I'm like, wait, this feels a lot like The Muppets 2011 movie.
7:20
And then you picked up on that. Yeah.
7:22
And then it's like, what do you mean we lost the theater?
7:24
It's just so like so did Jason Segel see this then?
7:29
I mean, he probably did forgot and then wrote it again.
7:33
But also, it's such an easy plot point it it's like when we talk
7:37
about, you know, oh, The Muppets have to get back together again,
7:40
The Muppets have to save the theater.
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It's these really obvious, even though these tropes have only
7:44
happened a few times to The Muppets.
7:46
It's such an easy thing. It's such an easy plot point for
7:49
them. But like they never did it in
7:51
the beginning of it's only been a repeated plot point.
7:55
Since the original writers have stopped making Muppet content,
7:59
that's true. So it's really just a lazy
8:01
trope. It's a lazy trope.
8:02
And, and I think you'd probably agree, these kinds of lazy
8:05
tropes tend to come up when there's been a big gap in a
8:08
franchise. You know, we are essentially
8:10
reintroducing The Muppets to an audience, you know, in 2002
8:14
because they haven't had a big project.
8:16
You know they had Muppets from space in 99.
8:18
That's only three years. It's only three years, but like
8:20
the farther wasn't a big hit. But we, yeah, we've been farther
8:23
away from Muppet content at this point.
8:26
Well, I guess because if you count the.
8:28
I know that's the thing, but that's the thing even well
8:30
nowadays it's different because people's attention spans are so
8:33
much shorter than they were just 20 years ago that even if The
8:38
Muppets have been gone from the public eye for a couple of
8:40
years, we have to reintroduce them over and over and over.
8:43
I. Don't think we do, though.
8:44
That's the thing, yeah. Well, I agree with you, yeah.
8:47
Which is why when they act out of character, it's really
8:50
jarring and not satisfying at all, like the whole sad Sack
8:54
Kermit thing. Which is most of this movie?
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I know it's so great and it it just that's my cannon for The
9:05
Muppets. Like what is the core Muppet
9:07
behavior is always going to go back to the Muppet Show.
9:10
Like the Muppet Show, I think is all you need to do to remind
9:13
yourself what makes these characters funny, how do they
9:16
relate to one another? Who has, you know what what's
9:19
everyone's status and how do they lose status, How they gain
9:22
status and and who is conflict with who.
9:25
But so it it's really dissatisfying when Kermit, it's
9:33
essentially like I don't like trigger warning, but like like
9:39
literally he asks. He says he doesn't want to be
9:41
born, like he's literally at the very least depressed and at the
9:45
very most like suicidal. Like I don't want to see that in
9:49
my Muppet movies. Well, we don't see it in this
9:52
opening scene I do want to get. To this stuff.
9:54
I'm so sorry. No, you're fine.
9:55
Don't apologize. This is, this is part of the
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part of the magic that we're going to weave with this, this
10:00
telling, retelling the story through.
10:03
And to be fair. That is how we meet Kermit is
10:07
that he is. That's right.
10:08
About to die on this bench. And we have the record scratch
10:11
and the Yup, that's me. Bet you wondering how I got
10:14
here. Well, let me tell you.
10:17
And we see that Kermit is being watched by David Arquette, who
10:21
is an Angel named Daniel. And he's like, we got to do
10:26
something. And so he goes to the boss.
10:28
And the boss, as you alluded to earlier, is God.
10:32
It's Whoopi Goldberg as God. Although his direct boss is
10:35
esteemed David Mamet actor William H Macy.
10:38
What does the H stand? For handsome.
10:42
Incorrect. Yeah.
10:44
No. William H Macy is having a nice
10:47
time. When he said something like it's
10:48
career suicide, I was like, is that the first time the word
10:52
suicide has been mentioned? Muppet.
10:55
Quickie. Get on it.
10:57
Yeah, let us know. What do you think about the idea
11:00
that God is a character in a Muppet movie?
11:03
So God is a woman, a black woman played by Whoopi Goldberg, and I
11:11
think The Muppets are essentially shepherding Awoke
11:14
agenda. And for 2002, strong choices.
11:18
Yeah, I. Appreciate it.
11:19
Yeah. And this role for Whoopi
11:20
Goldberg really cements her, as we've talked about on other
11:22
podcasts and other articles on tough pigs, as one of the best
11:25
friends of The Muppets. Because not only has she
11:27
appeared with them many times, you know, public events and
11:29
small things, appearances here and there.
11:32
She was a guest star on Muppets Tonight, but now they've
11:36
literally cast her as the creator of all things.
11:39
She is the God of The Muppets. Yeah.
11:43
Sorry, Jim. You you, you.
11:45
It's not you. It's Whoopi.
11:48
So yes, as. So we we kind of had this moment
11:51
of just like in its wonderful life, you know, we are going to
11:53
see the angels looking down. Let's get this guy's life story
11:57
before we decide what we're going to do about it.
11:59
The Muppets need to raise a whole bunch of money to save the
12:01
theater. And we meet Rachel Betterman,
12:05
who owns technically, I guess she has the the loan on the
12:09
building through her bank. I don't know how finance works
12:13
and she is played by Joan Cusack.
12:16
Who is the saving grace of this film?
12:18
Truly, I I was trying to clock how many times I was laughing or
12:22
or or even smiling during this movie, and every time it was
12:25
because of something Joan Cusack did.
12:27
I was texting a friend while we were watching the movie because
12:29
they were like, what's going on? What are you doing tonight?
12:31
And I said, oh, I'm watching this terrible movie from 2002
12:33
that The Muppets did. And they Googled it, and they're
12:36
like a very merry Muppet movie. And I was like, how did you
12:38
know? And they're like, I Googled it
12:39
and they said, yeah, the cast list and the summary looks
12:42
pretty bad, except Joan Cusack. Joan.
12:45
Cusack We all know that Joan Cusack is going to be the best
12:47
thing of any bad thing. It's true, and you and I often
12:50
quote Addams Family Values as it's one of the best movies.
12:54
We watch it at least once a year.
12:55
She's not only a great actress in general, but is an amazing
12:59
villain. And though this villain, and we
13:01
can get into it a little bit more, it's very 2002 corporate
13:05
villain that is very much of its era.
13:09
Yeah, greed is good when we're back to that.
13:10
Right. But it's like, well, we'll get
13:13
to the the worst things that could possibly come from a
13:16
person like this later. That of course, you know in 2023
13:21
is like, well, don't worry, it could get worse.
13:24
We had no idea. We had no idea.
13:26
So The Muppets need to raise all this money.
13:28
The the the only apparently know how to raise money.
13:30
One way that's to put on a big show and we we see the show that
13:37
they're putting on it starts with Moulin Scrooge, which is a
13:41
big Moulin Rouge spoof. I cannot believe at this point
13:46
when you suck, because I assume you watched it when it
13:48
premiered. Oh yeah.
13:49
Absolutely. Yeah, and I remember I was a
13:52
super fan of Moulin Rouge, the movie.
13:55
I had both soundtracks because it came in two different CDs,
13:59
and I ran that DVD into the ground and I was the one who
14:03
introduced you to the movie. That's true as adults.
14:06
Yeah, it was like maybe two years ago, yeah.
14:08
No. Was it?
14:09
It was pretty recent. It was.
14:10
Before the pandemic. Job was it before the pandemic,
14:12
I thought it was turning. So that would have been five
14:15
years ago. Oh, well well, I didn't.
14:17
Anyway, but so we're watching this.
14:19
It is shot for shot Moulin Scrooge is.
14:22
There's a lot of like shot for shot send UPS to Moulin Rouge.
14:26
And I'm sitting here thinking, first of all, I can't believe
14:29
like, it's Fozzie Bear as Jim Broadbent as Harold Ziegler,
14:33
Robin as Kylie Minogue as the Green Fairy, Gonzo as John
14:40
Leguizamo as Toulouse, La Trek, like the inception of and then
14:46
Piggy as Nicole Kidman, who is Satine, but she's Saltine like,
14:51
honestly, the parody. Not bad, but you had to be
14:55
there. And so I'm watching this going.
14:56
Joe didn't understand any of this.
14:58
I mean, and I was telling you, like, I understood enough
15:01
because that movie was so popular, was in the zeitgeist.
15:04
So I didn't not get it. I didn't love it because, you
15:09
know, it meant nothing to me. No, nothing at all.
15:12
But also this is going to be a recurring thing throughout this
15:16
entire movie that this is a reference that is very, very
15:19
rooted in 2002. Right.
15:21
And it's so odd because there's so many things that The Muppets
15:24
did during The Muppet Show that we're also of its time and yet
15:27
somehow are not dated. Yeah, that's a good question.
15:31
I'd love to think more about that someday, because, you know,
15:34
it's stuff like The Muppets did a you know, a disco song disco.
15:38
Frog. Yeah, Disco frog, sure.
15:40
And then, like, you know, disco goes out of style, but then it
15:44
becomes a little bit more ironic.
15:46
You could still watch it, you know, on different levels, but
15:49
it's not a specific reference to, like Kermit in Saturday
15:52
Night Fever. Which would have been cool, but
15:55
maybe not, because we there's no guarantee that in that era that
15:58
Saturday Night Fever would have lasted the test of time.
16:01
Which it did. It's a great movie guys.
16:02
Check it out. Although it's trigger warning,
16:04
it's pretty intense. It's pretty intense.
16:05
Yeah. So turns out Rachel Bitterman
16:09
has changed the terms of the contract.
16:11
Now they have to get all this money that they just raised to
16:14
the bank by 6:00 PM, not midnight.
16:17
Which, by the way, did you notice little Easter egg that I
16:20
didn't notice until after the fact?
16:21
Bunsen and Beaker are the ones who come in with the money.
16:24
Did you notice how they were dressed?
16:25
They were dressed in the Victorian garb of the Christmas
16:29
Carol, You. Did notice of.
16:30
Course I noticed. You love that movie.
16:32
I love that movie so much, and if you want to know how much I
16:35
love that movie, go check out my episode of Moving Right Along
16:39
and The Christmas Carol, where I swear the most that any guest
16:43
has ever sworn because I love the movie so much.
16:47
You earned every one of those swears Fozzie Bear volunteers to
16:51
take the money to the bank. Which, by the way, Fozzie Bear
16:53
is already so Uncle Billy coded like it had to be him.
16:57
But it also means that you immediately know what's going to
16:59
happen. Right.
17:00
Well, Fozzie can't do things right.
17:02
Definitely not the first time. Well, and so, like already it's
17:05
pretty bad. But I will say, I argue that the
17:06
dramatic tension that continues to mount and there continues to
17:10
be a bunch of obstacles throughout his entire journey to
17:13
trying to drop off the money. But as soon as he runs into that
17:16
Santa and the bag switch and you see that the bag switched like
17:21
all those other obstacles that come into play, there's no
17:24
tension there because you've already seen that the bags are
17:26
switched. Yeah, we're just kind of waiting
17:28
to see how it rolls out and what the reactions.
17:30
Are it's a It's a waste of time. It is, but I I have to point out
17:33
the the first thing that happens is he runs into a guy doing a
17:37
bad impression of Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter.
17:42
They couldn't get the real Steve Irwin.
17:43
Which thank goodness 'cause I wouldn't want him to debase
17:46
himself. No, but.
17:47
But it's not like he was. I mean, obviously he's a big.
17:50
He was a big star when he was around.
17:51
Yeah, in 2002. Yeah, but like, that would have
17:55
been a good collaboration between him and The Muppets.
17:57
I'm actually a little surprised that he isn't in this movie.
17:59
He probably was busy. But also, there aren't any other
18:04
people pretending to be celebrities in this movie.
18:06
They have celebrities as themselves or celebrities
18:08
playing characters. So it it stands out as being
18:11
really weird. And again, like we were saying
18:13
about Moulin Rouge, it's a reference that is so deeply
18:17
rooted at that time and like it's not really a thing anymore.
18:22
It's it's true, Yeah. So he's chased by the Crocodile
18:25
Hunter. He goes through a Christmas tree
18:27
thing where he's painted green. Now he looks like the Grinch.
18:30
And now we have a reference to the Ron Howard Jim Carrey Grinch
18:34
movie with the people, the who's and their very specific makeup.
18:37
Which I think was made by Universal.
18:39
Well, Universal owns Grinch. I know that.
18:42
OK. So like it's like it's a part of
18:44
the synergy. Sure.
18:45
I mean, and I get that there's a lot of synergy throughout this
18:48
movie. They even make, like, jokes
18:49
about this synergy with NBC. And so he's chased by those
18:54
folks. And then, you know, like you
18:56
said, he loses the bag to the Salvation Army Santa and then
19:00
has to go through like a weird laser grid at the bank where
19:04
he's being burned by the lasers. Which you skipped over the
19:07
racist front desk guy? Oh, I did.
19:09
I didn't want to talk about it, but go for.
19:10
It There's literally 2 hugely racist moments in this film,
19:16
both of which are racist towards East Asian communities.
19:20
The front desk guy who can't seem to say English words well
19:23
or understand English words well and.
19:25
That was because he was hard of hearing.
19:27
I'm just. Did he have a hearing?
19:28
Did we, did we see that? Because it sounded to me like it
19:31
was because of his accent. Because he was, definitely.
19:33
You might be right. I definitely defined it that way
19:36
but that. But the fact that it's there's
19:37
confusion about it tells me that they probably need another
19:40
draft. You think Yes, but that that
19:44
felt very racist to me. And we'll talk about the other
19:47
racist moment. I can't wait.
19:50
What a teaser. So, yeah, So Fozzie, you know,
19:53
gives the bag to Rachel Bitterman just in time for her
19:56
to to see, oh, it's not money. It's old clothes and clock
20:01
strikes. 6:00, Fozzie Bear screams at the heavens and the
20:05
Muppet Theater is lost forever. The end.
20:07
That's where the movie ends. What would you think?
20:11
Well, you know, if I'm going to see somebody take that theater,
20:15
better her turning it into the dot than Tex Richmond turning it
20:18
into a parking lot. That's fair, yeah, but.
20:21
Is that what? He turned.
20:22
Into, no. Oil.
20:23
Oil rig. Yeah, it's oil.
20:25
Oil Sheen. Really.
20:26
Yeah. You want oil?
20:27
Sheen. So basically The Muppets 2011
20:30
and Killers of the Flower Moon are the same movie.
20:32
That's. Something that we're going to
20:34
have to unpack later that we don't have time for that on this
20:36
podcast. So this is where we get back to
20:39
the whole like, oh, this is how I got there Moments.
20:41
We see Kermit. He's really sad They lost the
20:43
theater. He feels like it's all his
20:45
fault, when really it's all Fozzie's fault.
20:47
Which again is very It's a Wonderful Life.
20:50
And that's like a sub subtle reference that I appreciate but
20:53
not the exact mapping of. I wish I'd never been bored.
20:59
Right, because Frozzie, excuse me, Kermit sits on this bench,
21:03
freezes himself solid. Which by the way, apparently is
21:06
something that some frogs can do.
21:07
They can just freeze completely solid to get through the winter
21:10
and then they thaw in the spring.
21:11
So maybe it's not quite a, you know, a self harm thing as much
21:15
as it is kind of being like I'm just going to hibernate for for
21:19
a few months and get my act together.
21:21
Maybe that would have been in the the next.
21:23
Draft the next draft that. Sort of distinction between
21:26
although because I, I often if I've ever gotten severely
21:29
depressed, I'm always just like, OK, I'm just going to freeze
21:31
into a frogsicle and wait until wait until spring to thaw.
21:36
Out. That's right.
21:38
The boss. Remember the boss?
21:39
She God, yeah, she sends Daniel down to deal with this this
21:43
nonsense. Looking like an ice cream
21:45
salesman. From Hello, Dolly.
21:47
From Hello Dolly specifically, which you can understand because
21:49
you know you've seen that. Movie I have seen Hello Dolly
21:51
and I've seen Wally. Yep.
21:54
So Kermit doesn't trust this guy, and he says you don't run
22:00
one of those Internet Muppet fan sites, do you?
22:03
Now I have to point this out because for two reasons.
22:05
I wrote it in all caps in my notes.
22:06
That's right. The first reason is I run one of
22:10
those Muppet fan sites, excuse me, 2002.
22:13
We have to use the word Internet to make sure you know what a
22:15
site is. I run one of those Internet
22:18
Muppet fan sites. The second thing that I just
22:20
learned recently that is actually a reference to tough
22:23
pigs. What?
22:24
Yeah, Jim Lewis, the Muppet writer.
22:28
He wrote that Tough Pigs had debuted a year earlier, 2001,
22:33
and he was like, what is this thing?
22:35
What a bunch of weirdos? And so it was a reference
22:38
specifically to toughpigs.com, which is still around today.
22:42
So Jim Lewis was the writer of this script.
22:44
He's one of the writers, yes. They had more than one.
22:48
Yes, the writers of this movie were Jim Lewis and Tom Martin.
22:53
Oh, so just two people that were bad at this job?
22:57
Look, it takes a village. So anyway, I feel honored to be
23:04
kind of not really referenced in this in this movie.
23:09
I wish it was in a better movie, but whatever.
23:11
Beggars can't be choosers, so this is the the big moment.
23:14
Kermit wishes he'd never been born, and as you said it was.
23:17
It's a little obvious We are. We already know the plot of this
23:20
thing. It's Wonderful Life is a really
23:21
famous movie. So Kermit does this in this very
23:24
over the top wage, which I think is pretty fun.
23:26
Like he's just losing his mind. Sure.
23:28
Yeah, it's cute. It's it's more unhinged Kermit,
23:31
which we need to see more of. I think it we you need to have
23:34
fine Kermit and unhinged Kermit. But depressed Kermit doesn't
23:38
play. Yep.
23:38
Completely agree with that. So Daniel takes him to the world
23:43
in which Kermit was never born. Well after a brief Yoda cameo.
23:47
Yeah, that's weird. Where he, I guess, takes him to.
23:49
The wrong universe. Yeah, to a Galaxy far, far away
23:52
for a brief moment. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
23:55
That that's a bit of a stretch. The The Henson Company had to
23:58
build a whole Yoda puppet for that.
24:00
Just the back of it. No, they built, they actually
24:02
built a Yoda puppet. It looks like a Yoda Muppet.
24:04
There's there's a picture of it on the Muppet Wiki that you can
24:07
see. Go check it out.
24:08
Yeah, it's like, I don't know, it looks like a fan made Yoda,
24:12
'cause it doesn't look like Yoda.
24:13
It looks, yeah, whatever. And you know, of course that's
24:16
Eric Jacobson playing another Frank Oz character, but this is
24:19
one that is not part of the regular Muppet troop.
24:23
The the park in which Kermit and Daniel were sitting has now
24:26
become a shopping mall. Oh, no, commerce.
24:30
I and I wrote don't worry, malls will be killed by corporate
24:33
synergy in a decade. Like it's like, man, remember
24:37
malls. Yeah, yeah, really.
24:39
Not many people do, 'cause there's like nobody in this
24:40
mall. It's already kind of a ghost
24:42
town. Yeah, it's one of those bad
24:43
malls. We start This is now.
24:46
We're going through all the characters.
24:47
Let's see what everyone's been up to in this universe.
24:50
Gonzo is a pan handler at the mall.
24:53
He's a performance artiste with Amy the Dancing Brick.
24:56
Which, honestly, that one's the most realistic.
24:59
Yeah, yeah. Gonzo would be like, no, no, I
25:02
just want to do weird performance art.
25:04
Yeah, I don't care who it's for. I don't care where it is.
25:06
He'll survive. I'd like to eat, but I've got
25:09
this dancing and we. Don't even know what Gonzo eats.
25:11
That's just a good point. I don't know what he eats.
25:14
We see on ATV screen. Rizzo is a rat on fear Factor.
25:17
This might be the worst reference.
25:19
Well. Culture reference I mean.
25:21
And this is honestly the saddest part of the future.
25:24
That Kermit was never born is that Joe Rogan somehow still has
25:27
a career in this alternate universe.
25:29
I mean, he had a pretty big career in 2002 on that Fear
25:32
Factor show. I'm aware corporate.
25:33
Synergy, but yes. But I'm just saying, even when
25:36
Kermit hasn't been born, Joe Rogan still will end up being
25:39
Joe Rogan. And that's sad.
25:41
That's quite sad. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that.
25:43
The Electric Mayhem are doing River Dance, which doesn't seem
25:46
like that big of a of a deal. Yeah, and also I have to give it
25:49
to The Muppets, who often do references that are a little too
25:54
stale. Like by 2002, as somebody who
25:57
had an Irish dancing family, my brothers and sister all did
26:01
Irish dance. The only reason I got out of
26:02
doing Irish dance is because it conflicted with my youth theater
26:06
that I was doing at the same time as Saturday mornings.
26:08
But yeah, by 2002, Riverdance was on its way out.
26:12
So I'm just saying it's another one of those you're a little too
26:15
late, Muppets. Do you think that that was the
26:17
joke? Is that like, oh, they're doing
26:19
this, this dumb dance fad thing that's no longer around?
26:23
No, I don't. I don't think they could think
26:25
of anything else that would be, quote UN quote, upsetting and a
26:30
waste of their talent. Interesting, yeah.
26:32
Also animal was river dancing in Birkenstocks.
26:35
I just want to make that clear. Why?
26:37
Is that not how you do it? I I don't know why they made
26:40
that choice. I wonder if it's because
26:42
animal's feet wouldn't be recognizable because normally
26:45
he's barefoot and so they wanted to show his feet because
26:47
otherwise it's just what like red noodles for legs?
26:51
I will say the best thing about this, but I should say that the
26:55
the strongest writing about this alternative universe that has
27:01
nothing to do with the characters of Kermit never being
27:03
born is the fact that Doc Hoppers ended up becoming a
27:07
franchise that is so popular you can find it next to a Sabaros at
27:12
the mall like in 2002 and some other multiverse.
27:15
I would go to the mall and like, get my limited T-shirt and
27:19
Pierce my ears at Claire's and then go pick up some frog legs,
27:22
because Kermit was never born. Yeah, that I, I I actually very
27:27
much appreciate that reference. They lingered on it a little too
27:30
long, like Kermit being like, Oh no, I guess he feels responsible
27:34
now for, like, millions of frogs on tiny crutches.
27:38
Or dead. What do you mean?
27:39
Do you think they only take one leg?
27:41
Well, that was that's the reference from the Muppet Movie,
27:43
he says. Oh, I can Only I could just
27:45
picture millions of frogs on tiny crutches.
27:48
Nah 'cause they're dead. Oh no, no for sure, For sure.
27:51
Both things are true. 'Cause I think when you cut off
27:53
the, I mean, I've seen it. Well, I don't want to get into
27:56
how frog legs are made, Sarah. It's.
27:58
Already a terrible movie. Yeah, we don't need to do that.
28:00
All right, so Kermit goes to see check out The Muppet Theater.
28:03
Oh my God, this is great. I can't wait to talk about this.
28:05
And instead of the Muppet Theater, it's Rachel
28:08
Bitterman's. Her prized possession.
28:11
Her her dream business. It's Club dot.
28:16
Club dot people are on drugs. Sam the eagle is rolling with a
28:22
pacifier in his mouth. Yeah, what a choice.
28:25
I I kind of love Sam the Eagle on ecstasy with the pacifier.
28:29
Definitely on ecstasy. That's the only reason why you
28:31
have this pacifier. Because you have.
28:33
Dry mouth when you're rolling, and that's why you suck on that.
28:36
He's got the glow sticks, he's. I say this with no reference of
28:39
actually doing ecstasy. I want to be clear about that.
28:42
Yeah, I I actually didn't know that was the reason for the
28:44
pacifier. So that tells you I know I have.
28:46
To tell you about my my experience with ecstasy as well.
28:49
So Bunsen and Beaker are there. They're.
28:52
Oh, sorry, go ahead. Bunsen has a a soul patch, which
28:56
is sad. Yeah, that is.
28:58
That is very. Sad already out the door in
29:00
2000. Two, but Beaker is ripped and I
29:04
wonder. Maybe because also earlier we
29:06
have one of the very few gags in modern Muppets where like Beaker
29:10
actually gets, like, somehow maimed by Bunsen honeydew, which
29:16
doesn't really happen very much in The Muppets the way it did
29:18
and the Muppet Show. I mean, at least off the top of
29:22
my head that I can think of. But also, it's like, wow, So
29:25
would Beaker have just been, like, jacked if he wasn't
29:28
constantly getting maimed by his lab partner?
29:30
I wonder two things. Number one, I've always assumed
29:34
this is my own head cannon. I have nothing to back this up.
29:37
That Beaker speaks the way he does because he's so traumatized
29:41
by whatever Bunsen did to him. And so the fact that he still
29:44
speaks in meeps, despite the fact that his meeps are much
29:46
lower, he's got much, you know, like a base now.
29:49
He still carries trauma. Yeah, so he's got trauma from
29:52
somewhere. Maybe it's not Bunsen.
29:53
Maybe I'm wrong about that. The other thing being that,
29:56
like, you know, Beaker. Yeah, like he's got hobbies now
30:01
that he's like, he likes to work out.
30:03
He likes to get arm tattoos. Did he have arm tattoos?
30:06
He has a like a like a barbed wire thing.
30:08
Around his bicep, just like Chris Maloney and.
30:13
Beaker's just like Chris Maloney.
30:15
See, not everything in this universe without Kermit is bad.
30:18
Also, Scooter is a go Go cage dancer and he's wearing a skirt
30:25
and a choker. Oh, I didn't notice the skirt.
30:28
I'm almost positive he's wearing a skirt.
30:30
I thought they were short shorts, but you might be right.
30:32
I think it was a skirt and it's like, OK, go off queen like, but
30:35
that's a consensual gender fluid choice.
30:37
But I have to. I have so many questions about
30:39
this that I feel like we have to talk to the writers about at
30:41
some point because they're making stuff like that feel like
30:45
it's such a negative. Like, Oh my God, it's terrible
30:47
that he's dancing or that he might be cross dressing.
30:50
Because in the same scene there's a human adult male who's
30:54
like, sees Kermit and starts making like kissy faces at him.
30:57
And I feel like it's a little bit of gay panic.
30:59
Yeah, but does that mean that Joan Cusack's character is
31:06
actually like a gay icon? Do you think that Club dot, she
31:09
wanted to open Club dot because she really wanted there to be
31:11
like a hot gay bar? Like a kinky gay bar.
31:15
I mean, also, Sattler and Waldorf are only welcome if
31:18
they're going to buy girls drinks.
31:20
And once they've run out of money, they are thrown out,
31:22
which, honestly, they're creepy old men and they should be
31:25
thrown out. That's kind of real.
31:26
I'm. I'm pro Joan Cusack on this
31:29
matter, honestly, because they're like, perv like.
31:32
And if they're not going to spend their money at the
31:35
establishment, goodbye. That's right.
31:37
So, again, not all bad things. Maybe there is room in this
31:40
world for Kermit to be alive, the Muppet Theater to run, and
31:44
for Club dot to have a safe space for kinky gay people.
31:48
I think you're right. And just to wrap it up, I have
31:50
to mention Johnny Fiama is their bartending, and Robin Kermit's
31:56
nephew, who I guess does exist in this world in which his uncle
32:00
does not, is busing tables outside the bar.
32:05
Kermit and Daniel get thrown out, and they meet Fozzie Bear,
32:10
who immediately picks their pockets.
32:12
And Kermit doesn't even have pockets.
32:14
Yeah, I feel like Fozzie should not have been good at that
32:17
because Fozzie should be bad at everything in every universe.
32:20
That's true. Like he should have been running
32:21
away with like the change falling out or something,
32:24
because he can't be that good at that.
32:27
Like, is that now? That also means, in this
32:28
universe, that Kermit's never been born.
32:30
Ozzy's actually successful at something which is against his
32:34
character. Boy, that's a lot to unpack.
32:36
Too. Just saying.
32:37
Just saying. Maybe maybe Kermit was holding
32:39
him back from reaching his full potential.
32:40
True. Yeah.
32:41
Maybe it wasn't about being a comic.
32:42
Maybe it was about being a robber.
32:48
Well, then we get what I think is our clearest parallel to It's
32:52
a Wonderful Life. You know what I'm gonna say?
32:55
Oh no, she's a librarian. She's an old maid.
33:00
She's an old maid. She's not horny.
33:05
Miss Biggie isn't horny. What's the world come to?
33:08
She's a crazy cat lady who's pretending to be a Jamaican
33:11
psychic. Oh no, she only does the phone
33:14
acting, which, by the way, it was so triggering, 'cause she's
33:17
like, I'm still an actress and I just remember being in lockdown
33:21
and being like, am I an actress still?
33:24
You are an actress. Well, now I am.
33:26
Yeah, you always happen. But what I was gonna say is,
33:28
what she says is I'm still an actress just from home.
33:32
And that is what a lot of people like yourself had to do during
33:35
the pandemic. I know, I just felt very
33:37
triggered by. That Yeah, that's really real.
33:41
So yeah. And as you said, she's putting
33:43
on a fake Jamaican accent and doing these fake telephone
33:47
psychic calls, which is a direct reference to Miss Cleo, Miss.
33:52
Cleo. Another early 2000s, late 90s,
33:55
early 2000s reference that like, does not hold up.
33:57
Absolutely. The children would never know.
33:59
Never know. And by children, I mean 21 year
34:04
olds. Oh my God.
34:06
Stop that. I don't like that at all.
34:07
I don't like that one. Almost.
34:08
Almost 22 year old. Jeez, Louise.
34:10
OK, We're not. We're not.
34:11
We're moving on. We're moving on.
34:12
All right. So do you know about the Kermit
34:15
did 9/11 theory? Sorry, you weren't expecting me
34:19
to say that word. I.
34:20
Sure wasn't OK? What?
34:22
So in this scene we catch a glimpse out of Miss Piggy's
34:27
window and you can see very clearly the Twin Towers.
34:31
Are you fucking kidding me? The obvious theory is that 911
34:35
happened in the real world. Kermit was never born, therefore
34:38
somehow he triggered the events of 911.
34:41
Now obviously it's insane. It's an insane theory and it's
34:44
not true. Horrible.
34:46
That's so God. And that's so whoever came up
34:49
with who came up with? That well, it's easy 'cause
34:51
like, again, it's clearly I I I was looking forward to in this
34:55
this viewing. I did not catch this.
34:57
Clearly the Twin Towers are in in view of her window.
35:00
When did they film this? In 2002 is after 911.
35:03
But so here's the thing. People have asked Kirk Thatcher,
35:06
the director of the special, about that theory.
35:10
Yes. I don't know.
35:13
But it's such a it's a true fact.
35:15
Yes, you do. And and so they've asked him
35:18
about it and he's like, well, the truth is is that like we
35:21
just used a scrim. It was a scrim of of the skyline
35:23
of New York City and nobody thought, nobody thought what was
35:27
what is in Plainview of the window.
35:30
So it is. It was an accident, much like
35:33
this entire movie. Yeah, really a lot of thought
35:35
was not put into a lot of. Things.
35:36
No kidding. Yeah it like it literally.
35:39
Also like 911 had literally just happened.
35:41
I remember they would talk about how they had to re edit a
35:45
trailer for Spider man to take out the twin towers and like the
35:50
opening of Sex and the City used to have the twin towers and then
35:54
when the newest season came out the twin towers weren't in the
35:57
opening credits. Like this is something people
35:59
were very conscientious about. Man oh man that is that is
36:04
nasty. I don't like that.
36:05
Not like that at all. But we'll move on from that.
36:08
We don't need to talk about that theory You couldn't.
36:10
You all couldn't think about. That let's talk about Time,
36:12
Gonzo and Kermit songs that they sing it back at the mall.
36:15
Yeah. Kermit runs back to the mall and
36:16
he sees Gonzo. He's there by himself.
36:18
You know where he left him. And he sings.
36:21
Gonzo sings solo, a couple of verses about the most miserable
36:25
Christmas, and then Kermit joins in.
36:28
But he turns into the most Wonderful Christmas and then
36:30
segues into the song Everyone matters.
36:33
What do you think about Everyone Matters, Sarah.
36:36
I would argue that AI wrote it, but that's 15 years too far in
36:39
the future. So I I think, I don't know how.
36:46
I think very much like it's just a 9/11 scrim is what that song
36:50
is. Wow, Dark, did you what?
36:53
What would you think if I told you that this song was nominated
36:56
for an Emmy Award? I would say that Henry Kissinger
36:59
was given the the Nobel Peace Prize, so awards don't really
37:03
matter. Fair This song was written by
37:07
two people. Again at the two people making a
37:09
mistake. That's right, Desmond Child and
37:12
David Sigerson or Sigerson? Sorry, I'm not sure I'll
37:16
pronounce that last name. David Sigerson has nothing on
37:22
their IMDb. I'm sorry, on their Muppet wiki
37:24
page. But Desmond Child has written
37:28
many songs including Livin La Vida Loca Livin on a Prayer and
37:35
Dude Looks Like a Lady. Also a song that was in Moulin
37:40
Rouge Elephant love song which is just funny cuz it's full
37:44
circle there. Yeah, yeah.
37:47
He must be a music guy because that.
37:50
Is yes, he's a music. No, no, no, no.
37:51
I mean like he wrote the music. He didn't write the lyrics
37:53
because elephant love song melody is a montage of new pop
37:57
songs. So he might have written the
37:59
music, but maybe not the lyrics. Well, I don't know what to tell
38:01
you though that is what I'm reading on The Muppet.
38:03
Wiki Well, did he write the lyrics?
38:05
Is that what you're saying? Or did they both write the
38:06
music? You asked me questions.
38:07
I don't. Know the answer to oh, I don't
38:09
know, I'm not looking at the Muppet wiki.
38:10
I'm telling you, that's all. That's all.
38:11
It says. Hit songs include Yeah.
38:14
Either way, they I think they went to the bathroom and wrote
38:16
this song. Yes.
38:18
Like I think everything sitting on the toilet and being a crap.
38:22
Much like a Much like the the scripts and so the jokes and the
38:27
character choices. Everything needed.
38:29
Just one more draft. Oh, that one?
38:31
I don't know. That's that song is pretty
38:34
wretched. So you're.
38:34
Not going to put that on your on your Christmas Carol list this
38:37
year. Is it A Christmas Carol?
38:40
Is it about Christmas? I don't think it's about.
38:41
Christmas. It appears in a Christmas movie.
38:43
Is that is that not it? It's like a die hard thing.
38:45
It's like technically not really Christmas at all.
38:47
That's a. That's a.
38:48
That's a question to ask. If they don't say Christmas,
38:50
it's not a Christmas song. What about when the river meets
38:52
the sea? Is that a Christmas?
38:53
Song. No.
38:54
It's a song about death. Well, people die in Christmas,
38:57
no? They do, unfortunately.
38:58
But yes, that's just it just happens to be sung in a
39:01
Christmas special, Which And River Meets the Sea.
39:03
It's one of the most beautifully written songs in the world.
39:06
And if I die, you could sing that at my funeral.
39:08
No notes? No.
39:09
Notes No notes Paul Williams. You know how much I love him.
39:12
So Christmas, Christmas, Christmas, the frog.
39:16
Christmas the frog gets Christmas in his heart and
39:19
starts screaming about how he wants to live.
39:21
He wants to live again. He's He doesn't capture the same
39:23
magic, by the way, as when he wanted to never be born.
39:27
Yeah, well, you know when the willingness to die in the
39:30
willingness to live are not always quite the same judge.
39:32
That's a fair fairpoint. So Daniel spits in his eye,
39:35
sends him back to the real world, and that's.
39:38
Why I time travel? Kermit has a You know, Mary.
39:42
Is it time travel? It's not time travel.
39:44
Same time. It's universe.
39:45
Travel Multiverse hopping. Multiverse hopping, Yes, Kermit
39:50
has one of his, you know, one of these, like, Merry Christmas
39:52
movie house scenes where he's running through town.
39:55
Really, it's just the one park set and he's really happy.
39:58
And then he runs into the theater.
40:00
And he's wishing everybody Merry Christmas.
40:02
He kisses Miss Piggy without her consent.
40:05
He forgets. Oh, she loves that.
40:06
She's all about that. He knew.
40:07
He knew. She's she's consented to be
40:09
kissed at any moment. Yeah, that's fair.
40:12
Forgives Fozzie, even though he probably doesn't deserve it and.
40:15
Just like Uncle Billy. And misses.
40:19
Bitterman shows up and she's like everybody.
40:21
Misses. Well, she, I guess, miss her.
40:23
Husband is dead, Miss. Right.
40:25
Excuse me, Miss Bitterman. She shows up to kick everybody
40:29
out and she's like, you know, I own the theater now, lock, stock
40:33
and barrel. And then there's this, like,
40:35
weird karate fight. Between her and this piggy, also
40:38
racist. Tell me about why.
40:40
'Cause they do the fake Kung Fu movie dubbing thing, which is
40:46
racist. That's my that's.
40:49
And you can at me about that if you disagree, but I I think that
40:53
parody. You can't just like grab bag
40:57
parody like that. There was a time I think we
40:59
could have done that. I think seriously I I say this
41:02
with all seriousness because like.
41:03
In Blazing Saddles. Yeah, yeah, right.
41:05
Exactly when? You're doing a bunch of other.
41:07
Well, I mean, to be fair, The Muppets are attempting a lot of
41:10
parody in this special, and it's almost entirely unsuccessful.
41:13
So that would kind of parallel to a movie like Blazing Saddles.
41:18
But it's obvious that they're they're not thinking about the
41:22
racial undertones. They're thinking about parodying
41:25
a movie style. And you know, it's kind of, I
41:30
don't even want to use the word funny, 'cause it's not funny,
41:32
but like, it's kind of almost amusing because of the idea of
41:37
Muppet mouths moving but the words not matching, 'cause it's
41:41
something we literally never see.
41:42
But I'm I'm saying this in a way where it's like, but it wasn't
41:46
fun or funny or interesting, so they shouldn't have done it.
41:50
And even forgetting the the racial undertones for a moment,
41:54
it just wasn't a good enough joke to leave in the movie.
41:56
Absolutely. They just wanted to have Miss
41:58
Piggy Karate Chop Somebody. Which she already does when
42:02
she's an old maid. She can just karate, chop the
42:04
shit out of Joan Kusek can call it a day.
42:06
She doesn't need to have a Kung Fu sequence.
42:08
That's true. That's.
42:08
True. And it wasn't just the dubbing,
42:09
it was also like the the the wrist.
42:12
It was like leading up to the dubbing this like kind of wrist
42:15
movements that they did kind of ramping up to that moment of the
42:18
there was like the whole Kung Fu sequence was very much a hat on
42:23
a hat on a hat. And it comes across as cheap
42:27
because, I mean, yeah, again, like not even thinking about the
42:30
the dubbing stuff of just like Joan Cusack kind of doing the
42:34
crane kick thing, but not really.
42:37
And it's just, I don't know, they're just messing around.
42:39
On camera with no it has no rooting in any precedent.
42:43
It's not like, you know, this whole time she's been like,
42:46
well, my sensei says at the at the Dojo that the most amazing
42:51
yellow belt he's ever had. And.
42:53
You know, Miss Bitterman is has not been a part of any of these
42:57
over the top spoofs yet, So she's she's coming into The
43:00
Muppets world and getting into this wackiness, but really, she
43:03
didn't need it. Now Joan Cusack is really funny
43:06
on her. Own She walked into the theater
43:08
doing puppetry with the dollar bill.
43:09
That's what we want to see. Yeah, that's great.
43:11
It was so good. That was a great moment.
43:13
I love that. So who shows up to save the day?
43:15
It's Pepe and you. Mean Pee Pee.
43:18
I don't mean pee pee. I didn't like that joke.
43:20
That was the worst joke in the whole.
43:22
Movie It's pretty bad where she calls him pee pee.
43:24
Twice, she double s down on it. She.
43:26
Does he made the Muppet Theater a historical landmark?
43:31
Which honestly great solution. Great solution.
43:34
Weird that it happened on Christmas Eve, like after.
43:36
Those offices are definitely closed 100% and it definitely
43:39
takes more than like 10 minutes to get something like that done.
43:42
But you know what? Also, Whoopi Goldberg is God.
43:45
So this is her universe we're just living in.
43:47
It that is, that is a very good point.
43:49
So by making it a historical landmark, the theater can never
43:53
be torn down. That's the deal.
43:54
It can never be changed or torn down.
43:57
But that doesn't really solve any of their problems.
44:00
Like, like, she could still easily kick them up.
44:02
It's out and turn it into, you know, a theater for someone
44:05
else. She could just board it up.
44:08
She just wants to make a kinky gay bar.
44:11
Right. She can't do that with the
44:13
Muppet Theater. Now that is what they've
44:14
accomplished, but that's kind of it.
44:16
As long as they have each other, they have the Muppet Theater in
44:19
their hearts. I guess the special ends with
44:22
Bobo showing up out of nowhere dressed as Santa Claus, saying,
44:26
I don't know, you guys will be singing outside.
44:28
It's snowing. You guys want to come see it?
44:30
As Joan Cusack leaves the theater saying No, no, I hate
44:34
you Muppets, no. She actually says.
44:37
I hate you muffins. She says muffins.
44:39
She calls them muffins. Oh, I didn't miss.
44:41
That, Yeah, because she's so funny.
44:43
She is so funny. I love her.
44:46
Oh, we will love her. So everyone, everyone goes
44:51
outside. You can have her a little bit
44:52
and they sing some Christmas carols and a reprise of your
44:56
favorite song. And mine, Everyone matters.
44:59
Can I say yes? I'm currently in a Christmas
45:02
play called The Christmas Tree Farm and we open and close with
45:07
the same songs that this. Not everyone matters, but.
45:11
What? Guess what?
45:14
No. This movie starts with Deck the
45:16
Halls and it ends with we wish we would Merry Christmas
45:18
eventually going into Everyone Matters and that's what the
45:21
Christmas Tree farm also does. And I watching this I want to
45:24
text my director and be like excuse me because it it's not in
45:27
the script what we sing. It's just like they sing
45:29
Christmas carols and I'm like, Rachel, do you love A Very
45:33
Muppet Christmas? I don't think she does.
45:35
It's just might be a weird coincidence.
45:37
But I had. I had to state it because I was
45:39
a little flabbergasted. I hope the answer is yes, you're
45:44
going to have to report back to me.
45:46
I sure will. Yeah.
45:48
So that's the end of the special.
45:50
Before we move on, I do want to talk a little bit about some of
45:53
these cameos. I have notes.
45:56
About cameos or about the plot? The cameos.
45:59
Great. Let's go through them one by
46:01
one. You can't wait.
46:02
Joe Snow, the snowman. I want more Joe Snow.
46:06
Did you want more Joe Snow? I'm a big fan of those
46:08
claymation space specials, and once you were like, that's Mel
46:10
Brooks I was like more Joe Snow for.
46:12
Me. It was a little disappointing to
46:14
me that they got the Mel Brooks back to work with The Muppets,
46:17
'cause he was in the Muppet Movie.
46:18
Oh. That's right, he was that
46:20
German. Yeah, yeah, he was kind of a
46:22
Nazi. He loves playing Nazis.
46:24
Well, he's quite good at it. But yeah, it's just a voice
46:29
cameo, so we don't even get like a like a press photo with him
46:31
and The Muppets. Well, and I, having never seen
46:33
this movie, didn't want to be spoiled by who was in it.
46:37
So I saw David Arquette's name and then you're like, look away,
46:39
look away. So I didn't see any of that.
46:41
I specifically didn't want you to see Joan Cusack's name.
46:44
That was the. Big one.
46:44
I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
46:46
I love a surprise Joan Cusack, but I just hoped that Jeffrey
46:49
Tambor wasn't. Is it in it like because I know
46:52
that he was in Muppets from space?
46:53
Yeah, and Muppets was Rivas. That's what I'm saying.
46:55
I was like, I don't want to surprise Jeffrey Tambor.
46:57
No, I don't want to see that man ever.
46:59
There are probably a couple of not so great surprises for you,
47:02
but we'll go through them. Oh, we will.
47:04
The next cameo was Carson Daly. Did you even remember?
47:07
He was in the movie? We just watched it.
47:09
Like did it. Yes, because you know why?
47:11
Somehow that man has had a career this entire time.
47:14
He is on the Today show currently.
47:16
And why? What has this man ever offered
47:19
this world? I think he's so, this is, this
47:21
is my point. He's so bland.
47:23
He's so forgettable. And yet he's rewarded by having
47:26
this career where he's famous and does absolutely nothing.
47:29
And he got to hang out with Kermit the Frog that one time.
47:32
Boo Boo. He was really good in Josie and
47:35
the Pussycats when he tried to kill Tara Reid.
47:38
Spoilers OK, next was Matthew Lillard.
47:41
Matthew Lillard, who as a person is a national treasure.
47:45
But that character, and the spoof of Cirque du Soleil, was
47:49
absolute garbage. Yes, I thought.
47:52
He chewed that scenery so hard, like he was trying to one up The
47:56
Muppets and I did not care for that.
47:58
I wonder if the casting director is just a big Scream fan.
48:01
Between him and David Arquette, it's.
48:02
A good question. Do you think they tried to get?
48:06
Like Neve Kem Campbell or. No, no Skeet Ulrich.
48:11
Skeet Ulrich, Yes. I think they tried to get Skeet
48:14
Ulrich to do a scene with scooter, skeet and scooter.
48:20
In the go go. Yes, Cage, yes, I think that's a
48:24
thing that happened. There's a scene where Kerman is
48:26
trying to make a bunch of phone calls to get a new star.
48:29
You know, 'cause Miss Piggy doesn't want to do the show
48:32
first, he calls Kelly Ripa. Who, if you ever want to check
48:35
out Broad City, is hilarious. In an episode of Broad City, she
48:39
plays a parody of herself. 10 stars.
48:41
Not as funny in this movie. Yeah, she doesn't really do
48:43
anything funny. She's just like, sorry, Carmen.
48:44
Why don't we be with my family? Yep.
48:46
OK. Thanks, Kelly.
48:47
And then she got her check and left.
48:49
That's right. Next was Molly Shannon.
48:53
I she, I was. I think that was the only time
48:57
in the entire movie I actually was laughing out loud her model
49:00
like about a frog who ghosted her.
49:02
I love her. I did not care for that joke.
49:07
Every other time I've seen this movie, this was the screening in
49:11
which I was like, no, this is hysterical.
49:14
Absolutely hysterical. I know that you're not as big of
49:17
a fan of Molly Shannon as I am. I think almost everything she
49:19
does is so funny, but I'm glad you also appreciated it this
49:23
time. Around I did, I did, I very much
49:25
did. So funny.
49:26
Next was fellow puppet Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.
49:31
Again, very 2002. Yeah, yeah, that's true.
49:34
I mean. He's and synergy.
49:36
And Synergy, right? He is an NBC dude, Miss P tries
49:42
to get into an episode of Scrubs, and the entire cast and
49:46
creator Bill Lawrence are all there.
49:48
Yep, I said. Wow.
49:49
Even Bill Lawrence has a cameo. Weird.
49:52
I I mean, I I got it. Synergy.
49:54
They're promoting, you know the fact that Scrubs is also on this
49:57
channel. They say the words must see TV.
50:03
Weird. Weird choice.
50:05
And also, I think it was just a few years later that the entire
50:07
Sesame Street gang appeared in an episode of Scrubs.
50:10
There's obviously a big connection to Scrubs and
50:12
Muppets. Right.
50:12
And Stephanie Debruso plays the lead in the musical episode.
50:15
That's right. Yep.
50:16
Yeah. Yeah, and then weird that, like,
50:21
that's still kind of the beginning of the movie.
50:23
There's only one other cameo in the entire back half of the
50:27
movie, and it's Joe Rogan, who we've already talked about.
50:30
Yeah, I hate him so much. I don't care for him and it
50:34
makes we talked about this. It makes me sad that, like, I
50:36
don't think I can watch News Radio, which I is a show I very
50:39
much enjoyed between him and Andy Dick.
50:42
Well, you know, we'll we'll figure it out.
50:44
Someday, someday, we'll feel OK about it.
50:46
That day's not today. That's for the cameos.
50:50
I do want to talk very briefly, too, about some of these
50:52
references. There's so many references to
50:54
things. We've talked about most of them.
50:56
It's a Wonderful Life obviously is is the biggest one.
50:59
There's a reference to A Christmas Story.
51:01
Yeah, that I will say I enjoy a a tongue stuck to the pole.
51:05
Did you like that? I did.
51:06
I did enjoy that. It's probably my favorite part
51:08
of the movie in A Christmas Story.
51:10
Oh yeah, interesting, because everything else is too
51:12
stressful. You and I have bonded over the
51:14
fact that we really disliked. It Oh my God, that movie
51:16
stresses me out so much. I think it is so mean and so
51:19
stressful and I hate it and I don't find I I think anybody who
51:22
enjoys the movie is a psychopath.
51:24
But. That's one of those scenes that
51:26
that scene gives me so much anxiety.
51:27
That poor kid. He's stuck out there with his
51:29
tongue on the thing. And shitty kid.
51:31
It's fine. They're all shitty kids.
51:33
Maybe I would like it more, 'cause I now I see that they're
51:35
all shitty kids. But I also, I will say in A
51:38
Christmas Story, one other thing I do enjoy is when the little
51:41
brother is all bundled up in this in the jacket and the snow
51:44
pants, and he's just kind of like.
51:46
Yeah, he can't put his arms down.
51:47
He can't put his arms down. That's cute.
51:48
I like that. I like that one other moment,
51:50
Everything else. Burn it.
51:51
Great. A beautiful mind.
51:54
Oh my God. Which, by the way, for anybody
51:58
who doesn't know, that movie is highly inaccurate to the Nash's
52:03
life experience. So if if you want to know the
52:05
truth, I recommend watching the PBS special.
52:07
If you want to know the truth, you should watch this movie and
52:10
see the scene in which Beaker gets his hands crushed by a
52:13
window. Which is why he could never get
52:15
swole, because he's always getting his hands.
52:17
He can't lift weights when his fingers are broken.
52:19
He can't do it. He can't do it.
52:21
That's why he's got those noodle arms.
52:24
We talked about Moulin Rouge, Crocodile Hunter of the Grinch,
52:26
Star Wars with the with the Yoda Puppets, Miss Cleo.
52:30
There's one other reference that I noticed that I don't know if
52:32
it's actually a reference or not, but I'm going to choose to
52:34
believe that it is. There was a very brief passing
52:40
reference, I think, to The Shining.
52:43
Tell me more. Miss Piggy, in the world where
52:48
Kermit was never born, lives in apt 217.
52:53
That's that's the apartment number that's Daniel calls out.
52:56
Now. In the movie, it's famously Room
52:58
237, but in the book it's 2/17. Do you think that's a
53:04
coincidence? No, I I think that I thought you
53:06
were gonna say when she throws Kermit out, there's a hole in
53:10
her door and he's looking through the hole and she's
53:11
crying. So it's kind of like the shot
53:13
where. But no, I think there's a total
53:16
stretch. But I will say, I think there
53:17
was a Zoolander joke that you missed.
53:20
So when Jon Cusack shows Pepe the model of Club dot and he's
53:28
like who can even fit in here because Zoolander came out the
53:31
year before in 2001. So I wonder if that's there's a
53:34
lot of like, how will anyone even live, go to this club?
53:37
Everyone has to be so tiny, yeah.
53:39
Club for ants and all that. Yeah, that's a good point.
53:42
And actually a part of me kind of wishes, if that's true, that
53:46
they had made an actual reference to Zoolander.
53:50
Yeah, you know, like to say like it's clubbed out for ants or
53:53
something like that. I don't know what what that what
53:55
that what the clever version of that would be.
53:57
Well then Pepe. The prawn would have just turned
53:59
his head really fast and then like a blue steel look to the
54:02
camera maybe. I don't know.
54:05
I guess writing is hard. It's.
54:07
Not that hard, Jerry. Jewell does it pretty well.
54:11
So I'll, I'll say that. Is very true.
54:14
So let me ask you now that we've reached the end of this movie.
54:16
Oh my gosh. In your expert opinion, is this
54:21
movie so bad it's truly unwatchable?
54:23
Yes. Or is it so bad it's good?
54:26
No, this is not a Mr. Willoughby's Christmas tree
54:29
situation. Mr. Willoughby's Christmas tree
54:32
you can enjoy because it's so camp.
54:34
And the the the mice subplot, though kind of dull, is still
54:39
kind of sweet and the human stuff is so over the top.
54:43
And thankfully, it would be a completely different story if
54:45
Robert Downey Junior had like died in a car crash because he
54:48
was high or like had been in jail forever completely had his
54:52
career disappear and fall off a Cliff.
54:54
But instead, he's a a millionaire and his career is
54:59
gangbusters. Yeah, it has been for a long
55:01
time. So, like, you can watch it and
55:03
be like, wow, that was a wild time in his life.
55:06
Being completely high off his, high off his mind and doing this
55:11
Muppet special. Like, that's a thing you can
55:13
enjoy and watch. I can't really say the same
55:15
thing with a special Sesame Street Christmas, but I know
55:17
that's true for you. This is just a waste of time.
55:20
There's nothing because it's also like I wrote down Kermit
55:22
needs Prozac. As somebody who is on Prozac, I
55:25
can say Kermit needs it in this, in this film, like it's it's
55:29
just not in any way. There's nothing enjoyable about
55:32
it. There are things you can try to
55:33
enjoy, like if you were forced to watch this, but it's not
55:37
something that you can laugh with.
55:39
Can you can you tell me what the actually what the actual most
55:43
enjoyable thing about this movie is?
55:44
Molly Shannon's brief monologue about being ghosted by a frog
55:50
every time Joan Cusack does anything.
55:51
And I I also appreciate the fact that Pepe calls Joan Cusack hot
55:57
and is like very into her and is like she's really sexy and they
56:01
allow every time. Joan Cusack is a villain, she's
56:04
a sexy villain and I really love that because she's not a
56:06
traditionally Hollywood sexy person and everyone just is
56:10
like, you know what? No, we've all decided that she
56:12
is sexy and she is evil. And I'm like, yeah, she is.
56:16
That that's interesting that you say that too.
56:17
Not that you're wrong about anything that you said, but a
56:20
lot of people criticize this movie because Pepe is so overly
56:23
sexual. Isn't he always overly sexual?
56:26
Yes, yeah, yeah. But he's he comes across at
56:30
times little bit like a predator.
56:32
Yeah, but not for her. That's an equal.
56:35
She's using him to get to The Muppets.
56:37
This is a this is a quid pro quo situation.
56:39
He's literally painting her toenails at her desk.
56:42
She is a boss bitch, and he's just like doing what she wants.
56:45
And then he's like, wait a second, what am I doing?
56:47
But, like, he was totally on board to to just totally
56:51
turncoat The Muppets because she is just that hot.
56:54
And she's like, all right, you can come, I don't care, all
56:57
right, No, she she is in no way a victim.
57:00
Also, she's literally evil. So who she calls The Muppets?
57:04
Muffins like. How dare she?
57:06
How dare well, Sarah? Wait, I have a couple things I
57:11
do want to I just wrote down because we didn't just saw some
57:16
tips and tabs that I just wanted to, like, put out there.
57:19
The the bench that Kermit decides to die or deep hibernate
57:24
on is right in front of a statue of Kermit and two children, and
57:28
it is the creepiest statue I have ever seen.
57:31
It's. Horrible.
57:33
Heinous. I wish that statue had never
57:36
been born. Yeah, they the kids have like
57:38
these weird, like bug eyes and and like too many teeth.
57:42
Too many teeth. And like, they're obviously
57:43
trying to make them look like real kids.
57:45
I don't know why they didn't try to muppetize them or make it a
57:47
little bit abstract, but yeah, it it it's not a good mold.
57:52
I also like Sam the Eagle's emo hair that he has.
57:55
Yes, there's a joke about him, like how can he afford his
57:59
Propecia? Which, again, paid by the Muppet
58:01
Theater. Very 2002.
58:02
True, I had not heard of Propecia like it had been a long
58:05
time. It's like cream savers.
58:06
The weird thing about that joke to me is that line goes by so
58:09
fast though. So the rest of your the special
58:12
you're going like, well, so why does he have that weird hair
58:15
piece? And it never turns into a joke.
58:18
It's never referenced again. I don't even know if he's
58:21
wearing it at the end of the special.
58:23
I should go and check. It's it's a weird.
58:26
Choice. He doesn't have it in the
58:27
alternative universe. Fair he.
58:31
Just has the passage higher because he's rolling so.
58:32
It's Kermit's fault he was born, and Sam the eagle got really
58:36
sensitive about his bald. Head.
58:37
Yes. Well, probably because he's on
58:39
TV so much. Also, I think it's hilarious
58:42
that in every I wish I'd never been born, even though the guide
58:46
or Angel tells him, OK, we're going to go to a universe where
58:49
you've never been born, you've never been born, nobody knows
58:52
you. The protagonist is always like,
58:53
don't you know me? Hey, we're pals and it's like
58:56
you literally were just told this and then the Angel has to
58:59
go again. No, don't you understand?
59:01
They don't know you. You've never been born.
59:05
And the audience is like we already know.
59:06
We get it. We get it.
59:08
Move on. Yeah, the other thing is just
59:10
that God says this is no good, this is no good at all.
59:16
And I think God was right. Well, with that lovely final
59:21
note, Sarah, thank you so much for being here.
59:24
This is such a joy to get to. Do a Muppet podcast with you.
59:27
I live here. I couldn't escape.
59:28
You couldn't escape. I again apologize
59:31
wholeheartedly. You'll have to make it up to me
59:33
with different Muppet specials for Christmas.
59:35
All right, your choice. Whatever.
59:37
Whatever we watch next, you can choose.
59:38
I guess it's a Muppet Christmas Carol.
59:40
Again. Once.
59:42
More one more time. God bless my little broken body.
59:45
Sarah, where, if anywhere, can people find you on the Internet,
59:49
should you want to be found? Please find me on Instagram at
59:52
Sarah Aliz Grace. I also have a sub stack called
59:56
Grace and Storms. You can also listen to my
59:59
podcast which is a fictional series podcast.
1:00:02
It's nine episodes. They are all available across
1:00:05
all podcast platforms. Called Nora's Dragon, it is a
1:00:09
romance for adults. Go check it out.
1:00:12
There's a teaser if you want to know a little bit more so that
1:00:14
you're know what you're hopping into.
1:00:16
And that's pretty much everywhere you can find me.
1:00:20
Great. And if you want to find
1:00:21
us@toughpigs.com, go to toughpigs.com.
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That's our website. We are also at Tough Pigs on
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Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Blue Sky, Mastodon,
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everything else. And a Partridge and a pear tree.
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We also have a Patreon and AT public if you'd like to support
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us financially. That would be real cool of you.
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Otherwise, please stay tuned to this podcast channel for more of
1:00:51
the Worst of The Muppets holiday edition coming at you real soon.
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Thanks for listening everybody. Merry Christmas.
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Merry Christmas movie house.