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Making Monsters: Bears v Packers · 2nd City Gridiron

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Back to another episode of Making Monsters, Taylor Doll here.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: The bears are 9 and 3 and first in the NFC, it's a little wild, I feel like I'm still in shock.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: But now it's eight week.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're moving on to that and we're going to talk some bears' packers today, starting off with Aaron Liming.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know him, writes about the bears for 24, 7, sports, and Aaron, thanks for hopping on with me and talking some winning football right now, it's fun.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know right that the the year that I finally just say all right I'm done podcasting I want to do other things is the year that all of a sudden they're good again so like maybe I should have done this a while ago sometimes it is the vibes need a little bit of change but I was wondering that because I remember you posting something about taking a break but then I was saying you post about the bears again and I was like they reel you back in they reel us all back in.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was it was more of like a song I really wanted to cut back on the writing and stop the podcasting so it was more of, you know, not spinning basically my entire day after the game writing and then the next day writing and the next day writing and, you know, then obviously doing a podcast on top of that.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a lot more manageable and it gives me a chance to get more so.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I get that.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we appreciate your work as always when it does come to breaking down some of the bare stuff.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let's get into that.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's start with to me what feels like one of the bigger factors in this game.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the run game on both sides of the on both sides for the Packers and for the bears.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Common on guy did end up on the injury report yesterday.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've seen what Ben Johnson and company have done this year.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Wednesday and your report doesn't always indicate what's going to happen.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: throughout the rest of the week.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But let's just start with the Kyle Van Gogh conversation and what that run game has looked like, especially most recently, for the bears.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, just FYI, I don't know how well we set phones pick up things in the background, but if you hear one of my idiot dogs barking, he's just randomly lost his mind.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, just kind of ignore that.
• 2:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll put myself on you when you're talking just in case, but yeah, I think that the thing with the injuries is kind of like a U alluded to is we learned it's
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those things where the Wednesday report, even estimation or not, there's nothing we can take out of it because we've seen guys that are a little banged up if they had any sort of ailment whatsoever, they're probably going to be on it.
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, we've seen calm and now guy on it, a few times obviously there's been a few different ailments, same thing with former Dunesay.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm not particularly worried about the injury report, but I think when you're kind of just looking at this team as a whole,
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they are getting healthier, so I think that's at least a plus at this point, obviously, you kind of look over the backers side of things and they're starting to get healthier too.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like Ben Johnson talked about, they wanted to play the best, you know, football and December and one of the only ways you can do that is if you actually have a healthy roster.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think, you know, at least to me, I think one of the one of the things is obviously the offensive line and the running back.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully Kyle, my men,
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you know, keep all their offensive wine and healthy.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that their their running game is going to be a huge key down stretch here.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think part of that, one of the bigger conversations and why I said, I feel like it's going to be a big storyline in this game, whether it's a part of it, you know, once it starts getting frigid cold, a lot of guys will run the ball or teams will run the ball a little bit more than maybe you're used to.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: But another thing is obviously Michael Parsons.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael Parsons has always been no.
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a credible, I get into the quarterback that past rushing side of things, but he has been known to struggle against the run.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if that's something that the bears,
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: can take advantage of.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then I think you you have to lean heavily into that this weekend.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: One, I think I mean, it kind of goes too full, right?
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think when you look at the bears offense, it's kind of a similar situation like in Ben Johnson has kind of talked about it as well.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they they're passing game is struggling right now.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the ways to combat like just pointed out the past rush.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, their past rush is going to be
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: than what they are defending the ball.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And part of that's because injuries, again, Lucasfilm, and that says it played lately, Devonte Wyatt is out for the year.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it was an ankle or knee injury.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember, be the way.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's out for the year.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, you start looking at the interior that defensive line and it's taken some hits.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, Mike departs as a fantastic player, but he's a much better past-future than he is, a renditioner.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think,
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Especially when you're talking about the weather, you're talking about Caleb Williams and his sporadic accuracy as of late, the receivers, either dropping balls, slipping on routes, whatever the case may be.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think for the remainder of the year, and kind of like we saw Detroit with the Johnson as a whole indoors or outdoors, their identity is going to revolve around run game.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think especially with their offensive line, that's just kind of one of their strengths anyway.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about Caleb Williams because I did a podcast earlier in the week on Tuesday and we were talking about Caleb and obviously Ben Johnson has spoken on this this week about the the passing game in general, not bearing where he wants it to be Caleb, you know, Caleb struggles are there.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we see it, there's some inconsistencies, there's still some accuracy issues.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's still things he's gotten better at this season, though.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the big one is that not holding the ball so long, not taking those sacs, that pressure to sac ratio is from a lot better than it was last season.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's some of those things that you see him getting better at.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: You even look at this last week, the touchdown, that he threw to Cole Comet, it was beautiful.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of those passes where you're like, you see it, you see the pieces there
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Caleb Williams can't do you just need things to kind of settle and is it all Caleb no because to your point receivers have have dropped passes we've seen maybe some guys maybe not running it looks like minute miscommunication whether that's on Caleb Williams or whether that's on risk wider severs I don't think we always know that but it does.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ben Johnson kind of threw in there a little bit about what made me feel like it was some route running issues in certain areas recently too.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's he's a perfectionist.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the words I've heard about Ben Johnson is how much of a perfectionist of how the wider seabers he wants their feet on this certain hash market, the certain second and a route.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so those things I think are going to take some time to all come together.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what do you do you need to see this next five weeks from a Caleb Williams?
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: to feel like the development that you'd like to see the trajectories happening.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I think, I mean, kind of like you pointed out part of it already is, right?
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're seeing a much more confident quarterback.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Johnson touched on it.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it was Tuesday.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Tuesday was the last presser and he basically talked about how his command at the line of scrimmage, him being able to manage the game, not a game manager, but manage the game in terms of getting the line, being able to use the hard count, being able to use the cadence as a weapon, being able to get out of the
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Rick the Huddle with 2025 seconds left, you know, on the, on the playcallot there.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like those are the kind of things where if people really go back and they look at it, I mean those first few weeks are really rough.
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, their penalties have gone down tremendously, especially when you're talking pre-snaps.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that there is a good level of growth, I'm like you pointed out to the sack of ordinances at an elite level.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's,
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: it's not even comparable to anybody else right now, which is incredible.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think obviously the next step and I think a lot of this comes down to footworks and mechanics.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there are it's weird.
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: He has a tendency of making the easy throws a card in the hard throws looking.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that getting those layouts, being a little bit more accurate, obviously, on the deep down the field of the shots will help too, but just really the consistency and I think
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even when you go back and you look at Jared Goff and you're one of the Johnson, like his completion percentage did dip a little bit as well.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, you know, these last four or five weeks of the season, I think you want to see at least the passing game.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably not just magically going to click, and he's going to start going with the 300 yards game and for your four touchdowns every game.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think if they can compliment the passing or that start the running game well,
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: and they could actually be a more well-rounded offense.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that's kind of more of what I'm looking at.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, he's going to be on a Mike Scuffer Gargless, I think, especially with how Drake may playing last year's Jane Daniels.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: This year's Drake may, I think, with no matter what happens when you're the first quarterback taken out of the second of the third really, and you have one of those guys on the vicinity that is playing at an extremely high level.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's always going to be these unfair comparisons, but I think the reality is and I think what a lot of fans need to understand is
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're nine and three in year one of Ben Johnson's offense, a very complex offense.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is year two for Caleb Williams.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that they're winning games, this isn't unsustainable like it was in 2018, which you're risky, where you could just see a lot of the issues.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the ceiling is not even close to being met.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think regardless of what happens over these next five games or six games if they get in the playoffs or whatever the case may be, I think it's really just about trying to have
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, one of the things that kind of stuck out to me this last week and shows that Ben Johnson still has the confidence in what Caleb Williams can and will eventually be able to do in his eyes is even when the passing game was not working against Philly and it was they could pretty much run the ball all they want he still through the ball almost 40 times and so to me that has been Johnson saying I still want Caleb Williams to be a part to your point, maybe it's complimentary some days it may be Caleb taking over and we've seen him be able to do that late in games and I feel like
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's a lot of other factors that go into that so that'll be part of it.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk a little bit about the offensive line.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's been one of the more pleasant surprises this year.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess you could say surprise.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: They put a lot into it.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: They invested obviously with your dominant tuning and Jonah Jackson on the inside.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: and there was a reason for that because it's been a problem here in Chicago for a long time, but now you are seeing all three of those guys really start to gel.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: The interior looks really good.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Darnell Wright, I think he has his penalty issues every now and then, but outside of that is absolutely tremendous the way he moves men and I mean there's some things that he does that's just incredible.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: That left side has been the more fluctuating it looks like right now.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess Aussie has
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: got that job back.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been kind of back from 4th, obviously, between him and Theo.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll see what that looks like for the year.
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like the Packers are going to try and take advantage of that side of the line because everybody knows the weakness is on the left side.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: But so what do you think Ben Johnson can do this week to kind of counter that gameplay?
• 10:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's going to be interesting.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think if you look at the last few weeks, it is a hole on, I mean, they've been left tackles, man.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I'd say this because I don't think I don't know if issue is fair, but it's definitely been the weak point all year, right?
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and they found ways, especially as of the way, really since they've come out of the bioweek,
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: kind of scheme around it and be able to avoid those issues because if you remember, go back to that Raiders game.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Max Rodsey wreck that game.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there was a lot of lessons learned there.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Carvin was obviously being a Los Angeles run game.
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also, you know, just being able to.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there was multiple times this last week and we're Aussie Trepello got beat.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he didn't actually him getting beat like not touching anybody like that bad beat and he it was still the play was not affected because of how they were able to maneuver around things and I think part of it is capable of I think part of it's a play calling I think that.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, kind of going back to the offensive line as a whole, it's like, you know, you talk about, you know, them adding that three new guys on the interior and the expectation would be that they would be better.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, how many times in the past granted, you know, the level of talent added wasn't the same.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: But how many times in the past have we seen this team go out and make moves and you expect things to get substantially better and they don't?
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's a huge testament to this coaching staff, obviously, then Johnson.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But obviously, Dan Oshar as well, I think Oshar is one of those guys that he's probably been their biggest assistant coaching hire outside of probably Dennis Allen, this point maybe out there, I mean he's been that good like this offensive line has gone from one of the worst in the week.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: to all of a sudden, one of the best and the week.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny because I kind of felt that way to last few weeks.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm probably just being a homeer about this.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then you start listening to different people nationally.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, yeah, this is one of the best offensive lines of football right now.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think when you have one week coin versus what the bears have had over what the last five, six years of having multiple week points along the line, I think if you have one week point,
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're able to scheme a little bit and I think the thing with Mike of Parsons is he's not just going to line up on the edge That's something that we've seen pretty consistently since it's time going back Dallas like he's going to line up over You know, over the center he's going to line up basically wherever he wants to So I think a lot of this is going to come down the scheme and I think a lot of this is going to come down to probably a quicker passing game
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think now outlet and that's where Caleb Williams is going to have to be able to check them all down in those types of situations and not play Superman and not try to avoid every single sack.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like sometimes you just have to hit the running back, you have to hit whatever the shallow flat is, just hit that, live to play another down.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's one of the things we've kind of talked about throughout the season with him is those easy button throws to your point earlier.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes he makes those more difficult ones where you're like how the hell did he just do that?
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look easy and then the ones where you're like how he just missed that.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: But that I think that's just it's a little bit of Caleb and I think some of that is what Ben Johnson is really in, but you also don't want to lose
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: what Caleb Williams is because he is that that superman type of player and so you don't want to totally get rid of that.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's switch over to the defensive side of the ball a little bit.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Should be getting Noah's soul back.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was a full participant TJ Edwards was limited.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: We know Tremaine's on IR, but you are getting some of those linebackers back that you've been missing, which by the way, I think the backup when it comes to a knockbox of Amiga.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, to Marko Jackson have done a good job being thrown into a situation where to Marko all of a sudden was wearing the green dot and was told that a couple days before that would be happening.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to give credit to those guys because I think they played good football and in the time they've been asked to, but you do want your linebackers that have been on the defense for the majority of the year and that you want starting.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so those guys coming back, I do think will benefit when it comes to the run game.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think having Kyler Gordon back benefits that that run defense too.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So some of the things that you see defensively of this, the getting healthy.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you think that'll affect it this weekend?
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's obviously it's going to be big.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, it's kind of a two full thing like you pointed out.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think linebacker obviously with the short menu past game is the run game is going to be big.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm on an island here.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think even when Noah's soul comes back, if it were me, I'd be going to Marko Jackson that will, and then TJ Edwards at Mike and so, and Tulsa made Evans give's back.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I don't think Noah's soul is a type of athlete that you can put at Will, and I think we've already kind of seen TJ Edwards at Will before.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, to have options, I mean, you look in the secondary and it's the same thing.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody was so concerned what they're going to do with C.J.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gardner Johnson, when Kyle or Gordon got back and it's like, who cares?
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they're in a situation right now where they can finally, they finally have.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: almost the full stable defensive acts, I think, you know, Tirek Stevenson was a not participant that we'll see.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at this point in time, I mean, they have so many options, and that's great, because they can do different things.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, especially when you look at the defensive line, I mean, it's honestly incredible.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: If there's one complaint I've had so far this year, how do you spend so much money in so much resources on defensive one?
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they still can't get
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a situation that they're in, luckily Dennis Allen is somewhat used to dealing with this because he's never really targeted like those true past structures off the edge.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think just having the different options to be able to do different things, especially in the secondary and maybe even at lineback or like I think you're going to see a lot of personnel changeings.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of, you know, whether it's nickel, dime, whatever the case may be.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're going to see a lot less based package, especially against a team like the Packers, I think you almost have to, you know, depending on a Jade and Reads back, but I mean, you got Christian Watson, Romeo Dobbs, you've got a golden who could be returning as well.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think that a lot of steam on the outside of receiver and that's something that the bear is struggle with defending metal floors offense regardless of who
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you're not going to be able to get us to the quarterback, you got to be able to cover.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You got to be able to confuse.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what they're going to have to do.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that having better talent and more talent, more options back there can only help that.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that being able to have a healthy rotation.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we saw last week with both Jalen Johnson and Kyler coming back.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they were, I don't know if they were on the field at the same time at any point.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was very a kind of rotation of what was going on, but it worked.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know there's been moments.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Nishon Wright is a ball hawk, the guy is just all over the place.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you don't want to just take it away from him because he's somebody that's constantly forcing those turnovers.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I saw which I'll have Peter Bacowski on later.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he will be talking the Packers side.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like take away their turnovers and their defensive EPA is negative blah blah blah or whatever the case may be and I was like okay well that's their identity and it hasn't been like a four or five game sample size we're now.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: 12 week 13 weeks into the NFL, and that's their identity right now defensively with having injuries are still able to get those takeaways.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not something that is not in their wheelhouse week to week.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, you take away any teams best attribute on one side of the ball and things change.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you take Michael Parsons arms away and he's not past rushing very well.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I do think when we talk about the past rush, it clearly has to get better.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: What they did this off season was clearly not enough.
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've seen it get a little with Austin Booker coming back and getting healthy.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've seen a little bit more from him.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've seen Javon Dexter get a little bit better throughout the season.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Grady Jared getting healthy, you're seeing him in the mix a little bit more.
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: obviously Montess what has played a lot better in the second half compared to the beginning.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I read a stat earlier.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's Montess what's actually tied for the most forced turnovers caused by pressure with four of those.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's maybe not getting that sack number you want, but he is making quarterbacks.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: kind of force some throws makes some decisions they probably don't want to.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's going to be another key for this weekend, Aaron, because we have seen when Jordan love is kind of having to leave the pocket and do some other creative things and force some throws.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's when he makes the mistakes and that's what you want to see Jordan love have to do.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, and kind of going back to that to be the for CalSky thing for a second.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you brought up a really good point, right?
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So earlier in the season, when they were creating all these takeaways, you could argue that it wasn't sustainable, right?
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when you're, you know, three forced away through the season at this point, it is sustainable.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that people need to understand that sustainability from game to game and it's seasoned is very different from sustainability from the season to season standpoint.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, those turnovers translate into next year, probably not.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But this is this year.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't really understand that argument.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I don't go back to the past rush.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think in it's kind of something, I don't know what your feelings were or when they signed, you know, Dio and made some of the or didn't make some of the moves that I thought they should have made.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was one of those situations where you look at a guy like Montes, but
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a good player.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a very good defensive end, too.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's basically, he's exactly what you would want of a Sean Gary B, right?
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where you put a very good peer-pass Russia on the other side of him and you let him read the rewards of having basically single blockers in front of him.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, he's been miscast over the last, basically since he's been with the bears, where he is the one
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, he's not up here past Russian.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what they got him for.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that, and that's kind of the thing with Dennis Allen going back to how much better this coaching staff is then where you look at.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, they're defense.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, when you're looking at the metrics, your defense isn't very good.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, they've had a lot of injuries.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: They, you know, with.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a multitude of different things, but the reality is like they just haven't had a good overall past, so what Dennis Allen has been doing, is sending different blitzes, simulating pressures, doing different things to really create confusion for the quarterback.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, again, it's not going to lead to a top five top 10 defenses here.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we already know that.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the goal down and stretch essentially needs to be
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just be league average.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you can beat league average and the running game can do what they're doing and you can get the passing games in a couple of minutes I mean, this is already what a top seven offense like if you get the passing game performing better and you can get in that top three to top five range like
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that you can want to superbowl that, but you can, you can sure win a playoff game or two, and you can at least challenge depending on what happens, and especially with those takeaways, it all kind of levels out.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's just, it's really about relying on this coaching staff to continue to do what they've been doing, which is adjusting and adjusting whether that's
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Quarter to quarter, half to half, game to game, whatever the case may be, regardless of what the personnel is, they've been able to adjust, and at least for me, I mean, that's not something I've been used to watching the Bears and God knows how long, and I think that that's been one of the big different makers between them and every other team of the vision when they're playing each other is the fact that the Bears haven't been able to make adjustments, and guys like Matt LeFloor, you know, guys like Dan Campbell,
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kevin O'Connell, all of them have been able to, and I think we're starting to see the bears make those adjustments and I think that that's why they're able to win these games in the quarter.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right Aaron, how you feeling about this weekend?
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not as weirdly confident as I was last week, but yeah, it's hard to project, it's hard to project the bears in the Packers and it's really hard to project the bears in the Packers when it comes to land both fields.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say, like, I do get this weird gut feeling that there's somehow going to win.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was weirdly confident about last week's game.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not nearly as confident this week, but I do feel I guess when you're looking a little long range here I do feel like they'll find the way to go to and one of these next two weeks and I think that they'll They'll obviously build a lock up a playoff spot with that But I think that that will also you know distinctly help them in division as well because even if they lose Sunday They're a half game back Green Bay's got Denver and then they've got bears yet in Chicago So if they're assigned a way to go to and one they're gonna be a game to half up with three games or two games
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of looking at it from that perspective, right?
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: They got two games in three weeks, which I absolutely hate.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hades us guys will make us for doing that.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't ever do that with the Packers again.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: That needs to be enjoyed at the beginning of the season in either the middle or the end.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not three weeks apart.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got to be able to tear each other apart of social media.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's got to happen.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of my longer term outlook on longer freak out, kind of like the Baltimore game.
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to freak out if loses weekend.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you don't want to see him get blown out, but the goal needs to be 21 one over these next three weeks.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if they can get that done, they're going to be in great position, obviously, to make the playoffs and probably won't be division.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I felt similar when I saw the schedule when it first came out.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I didn't love the couple years ago or was it last year where we started and ended.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't like the week one and then week 18, but I also hate this.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, to your point, I think you need, well, and I feel like they almost do it intentionally because they know that
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: these games for example like the week one and week 18 if it did come down the week 18 and somebody getting or not getting into the postseason they want it to be bears packers right now i think they were thinking like there's a chance that this division can be very close at the end so let's put like make them all play each other in the last month yeah i mean they didn't write if you think about it because i mean regardless of what happens over these next three
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: both of those games are going to mean a lot.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be one and two in the division regardless unless somehow Detroit wins at least one of these next two games is not both.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like these are going to be very meaningful games.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they did a great job, but yeah, I'm still I'm like, why not?
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is not much from my anxiety.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess we can be happy that we are playing meaningful football in December because it's been a bit for that But there and I appreciate your time.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully next week we're talking about another win because If we next Monday are talking about a ten and three bears team leaving Lambo with a victory this fan base is going to be And stuff for a bowl to the rest of them
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, thank you so much.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope you have a good weekend, get rest of your week.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you too.
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, thank you.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's continue on Bears Packers.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, week.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm joined now by Peter Pockowski.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know him.
• 25:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Host unlocked host of locked on Packers.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of bears fans out there give you a hard time.
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Peter, but it's part of what it is being bears Packers, especially when
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is great to be here and yeah, it is part of the deal.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would be lying if I said I didn't invite it.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so here we are.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here we are.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's start with the bigger notes.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to be Jordan Love, absolutely dealing on Thanksgiving, Bear Span's, don't like seeing that, obviously.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But some of the, some of his accuracy, including what ended up sealing that, that game winning on Thanksgiving game.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: But there's been moments he has six touchdowns in the last five games, but all six of those come in two games.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So tell us a little bit about what you guys have seen from Jordan Love this season.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's Toyota Thon, that's kind of the joke about it right now.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it was not a joke if you look at the numbers from week 11 on the last two years.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been spectacular and so That's that's a good sign for the Packers that was always something that you know Aaron Rodgers prided himself in is the the end of the year you play your best ball The Matlow floor teams by and large have played their best football at the end of these seasons They've gotten off to some slow starts and so what what what we're seeing now is an offense where he just looks fully in command and I think
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there was the Vikings game after the Giants game and that was frustrating for some Packers fans because he looked so good against the Giants in a windy conditions.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I heard from some Eagles fans this week because I had some things to say about Jalen Hertz.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I watched the tape Taylor and I was like, oh my god, that offense is a mess.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is made worse by the fact that Jalen Hertz is just such a physically limited passer.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you could just see like he's he's got a like I don't know that it's quite fair to call it a pop gun arm, but like the caliber is not much larger than a pop gun and you could see that in those windy conditions well Jordan love played one of his best games as a pro against the giants I was at that game it was windy as hell in that game like 25 30 mile an hour gusts affected the kicking game and he was dealing.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then they play this this game against Minnesota where they barely throw the ball and they they just run it down Minnesota's throat because JJ McCarthy stinks and turns the ball over a bunch and so it was like Matt LaFlor can you can you do something like it's like pokes with stick like Matt come on we know you're a creative coach.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then against the lions we saw it.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't like they didn't play with balance.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: They did.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: They still ran it.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there were 25 design runs to 30 passes That's what I've been calling for all season is just be balanced, but but lean a little more toward the passing side And it wasn't just that they were throwing it.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were checking it deep.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're they're throwing double moves They were they were letting Jordan love play quarterback at a high level and he did it and the throw you mentioned
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is hard to put into words, falling backward, aid in Hutchinson and Olympic meal in your face, and he lays it out perfectly for Don Tavian Wix, away from the coverage, buying branches all over him, like it's really good coverage.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even from a clean pocket, it would not have been an easy throw.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so those are the moments, much like Bear Span's with Caleb Williams, where you point to those moments where they make special plays and you just go see, there it is.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we we've had definitely have the moments I mean even in this was one of Caleb's worst games on Thanksgiving luckily They were able to I mean on Black Friday they were able to run the ball, but you still have the the touch down to Cole commit earlier Where you're it's just you have those little glimpses and that's what I think makes these quarterback so fascinating and general and so yeah I think that what as a bears fan watching that Thanksgiving game when that throw was when that pass was completed I was I was like quiet for a second I was like
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Damn, that was good.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was very good.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say that, but it was, let's talk about the conversation in general about the weapons.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: You and I have talked about this a few times.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: No Tucker craft.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a hit.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: We know.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what he was doing this season and I honestly, we're happy that you don't have, we don't have to face Tucker craft, honestly.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but the other, there's a lot of guys Romeo dobs, I think leads the team in receiving yards, but it still doesn't feel like maybe there's a true number one wider receiver right now.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Am I wrong in that?
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or do you guys feel like dobs is the guy?
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think dobs is the guy.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if there's been a number one receiver, since he's gotten back on the field at Ben Christian Watson, I mean, he has sort of taken that role when they need big plays on third down, when they need momentum changing plays, they run stuff for him and his ability to win deep.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: is so congruent with the way Jordan loved wants to play and so congruent with the way Matt LaFore really wants to call his offense.
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: LaFore would love to be able to kind of design his offense a little bit like the way the Bears have, frankly, where it's a lot of run game and then when you when you pass it's it's shot place.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's let's get back off heavy play action and try and hit these shots down the field.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now he's I think he's a little bit been a little bit more willing this year, Matt LaFore has
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then say Ben Johnson to just get into the straight drop-back game, but part of that is the consistency of an experienced quarterback versus a second year quarterback who still, you know, what does he had not even 30 starts.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think right under his belt at this point or maybe, you know, it's got to be right on right right out just under that.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's that's certainly part of the difference here.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but Christian Watson to me has become that guy.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're also getting Jane Rebek, who was really their number one receiver for most of last year, even with Christian Watson healthy.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is their zone beater.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, he's one of the one of the highest yards per route run last year.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, zone coverage.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's the guy that they love to scheme stuff up for too.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: That without Tucker Craft, you mentioned huge, huge loss for the Packers.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, they don't have a player who they can just spit the ball out to and go make plays.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so like the bears can do that with DJ Moore, the bears can probably eventually do that to guys like Luther Burton as well.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The packers don't really have that guy, especially with saving on Williams dealing with an injury.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So read becomes that guy where they're going to scheme up the jet sweeps, the receiver screens, those little just sort of, you know, underneath crossing routes where it's just like get it, get in the ball with some space and let him let him go to work.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he can also threaten the the defense
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: a receiving option, they'd love to run him on these big overs where, you know, like Jordan love and maybe only a handful of other guys, probably Caleb Williams, have the arm to make these throws back across the field.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, the play that Jade Jade and Reed got hurt on in week two, it's probably the best throw I've ever seen, Jade and Jordan love making a game.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was an outrageous throw, 60 yards down the field into a tight window and just lays it out perfectly for a touchdown.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, it gets called back and Jade and Reed breaks his collarbone.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so one of those like double whammy's like, oh no.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but right for right now the answer was Christian Watson.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so let's talk about the run game.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's another piece of this to me.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this weekend is going to come down to that when it when we talk about run defenses rushing offense and there's a few reasons we'll get into that why I believe that.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Josh Jacobs to me is one of the better running backs in the NFL.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the Packers have one of the better running rushing offences in the NFL, though.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you believe?
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that contributing from the offensive line?
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it like calling?
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think is factoring into that run game not really truly getting going yet?
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: All season the Packers have had one of the worst if you look at numbers like yards before contact.
• 32:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Josh Jacobs has been one of the lowest running backs in the NFL.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like teams are getting to him before he's able to create positive yardage.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I believe the bears are number one in FTN fancies adjusted line yard metrics.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they create more opening spaces for their running backs than anybody else.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: The packers are not doing that consistently.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the running games that is there is they're almost solely because guys like Emmanuel Wilson and Josh Jacobs are making guys miss or they're running through tackles or they're creating you know a two yard game becomes a four or five yard game just because you finish through contact and and push the pile a little bit.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: um, they have not been explosive in the run game at all.
• 33:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a stark difference from last year.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were creating explosives in the run game last year, and they just haven't been able to this year.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Part of that is Jayden Reed being out.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Someone you're going to create design touches for.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then part of it is they expected Marshall on Lloyd.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're third round pick from a couple years ago to come in and contribute.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he got, he made this incredible play in preseason, runs a wheel down the right sideline.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Malique Willis throws a perfect pass.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: He catches it.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to make a big
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's been out all season since then, we haven't seen him in a regular season game.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: This year, I think he has only played a handful of regular season snaps in his NFL career, just been snake bitten with these injuries.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he is a dynamic player with the ball on his hands.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that probably not this week necessarily, though, they're ramping him up, hoping that he can go.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think whether it's later on the season or next year, he becomes that guy who can create some explosive plays when not everything is there.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: To run the ball effectively in the NFL, now you have to be able to create explosives.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: you're just not going to be able to generally matriculate the ball down the field just running it unless you're the Chicago Bears playing the Philadelphia Eagles in Philly on Black Friday apparently.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just kicked ass and took names in that game and I'm not afraid to say that like that's what happened.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you're not going to do that every week, even the best running games in the NFL aren't going to do that every week.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to create and they create explosive plays, right?
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't just five yards, six yards.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was 10.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was 12.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was 18.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was 30.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how you have an effective running game in the modern NFL and have it be a value add for you, which you just for the bears and just hasn't been for the Packers.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, those two those that category kind of flopped from last year to this year because to your point last year the Packers were really good at getting those big chunk explosive things when they needed it in the run game and the bears were not and then now that and everybody was kind of even in the first four weeks were hard on the Andre Swift and we're like okay here we go again you didn't go get it running back you waited until the seventh round to draft common on guy when there was so many running backs on the board.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then things after probably about four or five weeks started to settle in, some of that, I think, is the offensive line really started jelling, especially interior Ben Johnson just created some of the stuff he schemes up when it comes to the run game is obviously a part of it too, but credit to the backs to because both menongai and Swift have done a good job at just their vision and proving their vision throughout the season running guys over and not be, you know, that contact.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: the yards after contact, but the yards before contact.
• 35:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Mananga has been better than a lot of guys taking a lot sooner in the draft than he was.
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is we thought this was a generational running back draft and it turns out like are any of these guys any good?
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like Mananga might be the best running back from the draft class right now.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe Scataboo if you didn't get hurt, but.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, but he was drafted late too.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I like later.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to say later than then and we thought he would be.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so let's just switch over to the defensive side of the ball for the Packers.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Michael Parsons, that's a name we're all going to be talking about the most big trade for the Packers very sad day for the bears when we saw that that trade happening.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I go to the cool Mac trade though, right?
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that you cope a little where you start making excuses and you're like, well, you know, like he can't he's not as good against the run.
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So whatever, but it's my comparison's one of the better past rushers true past rushers in the NFL.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so what do you think the the Packers game plan this weekend because the the bear's line is.
• 36:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: top four five offensive line right now in the NFL.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Their weakness is the left tackle.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of been the thing.
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been multiple tackles out there left tackles that they're trying to figure it out.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Looks like they're going to go forward with Aussie Shapillo.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Massive human being used to draft pick on him has some strengths, but definitely has some weaknesses.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can take advantage of that side of the line.
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mike can play everywhere.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's one thing about them.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: They'll line him up wherever he wants to line up.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what are your thoughts on how they'll approach that this weekend?
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Aussie, get ready to learn Micah Parsons, buddy.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think that is the first and foremost.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what the Packers, which Jeff Halfley's done a really good job of and he did this spectacularly last week is he uses Micah Parsons to dictate terms in protection plans.
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So he will line Micah Parsons up first, third down of the game.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: He lines Micah Parsons up on one side of the line and he creates an overload on the backside.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's the alignment is such that you have to slide the protection toward Micah Parsons.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they did, and Micah Parsons dropped in the coverage, and they got a free runner off the backside, and you get a near sack fumble from Xavier McKinney.
• 37:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't send
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody, like if they send everybody, it's more like a cover zero look.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: They end up only sending five and they dropped, I think it might have been two even defensive linemen, but you get a free runner off that because you have to slide the protection toward my comparisons.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so what that another cool thing that they've been doing is they've been putting him right behind like a one shade nose tackle and giving him an opportunity to pick aside.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then you can't slide to Mike Parsons if you don't know where he's lined up like he's literally behind like it looks like he looks like a quarterback under center Yeah, behind the defensive tackle and so it's like okay, which are you gonna slide one way or the other?
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see and it's up to him to sort of decide what he's gonna do and then that frees up things for for other players Rashan Gary has certainly been the beneficiary of that this season Devante Wyatt whose hurt has been the beneficiary of that Carl Brooks is back this week Carl Brooks a really good player
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, there's fans remember Carl Brooks is long fingernails.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, like there's last year.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so that, um, is certainly going to be something that Jeff Hathley is going to play with.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: My guess is they're not going to bring us on a pressure.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: They don't bring a lot of pressure.
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: They trust this front for to get home and against the lions.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like a bow constrictor.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It started off, the lines were able to get some stuff in the middle quarter, second and third quarters, and then by the fourth quarter, because they had to keep up with the pack of scoring.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you just, if Micah Parsons just keeps coming, eventually he's going to get you.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we saw that in the fourth quarter where he ends drives and basically ended the game, lines down two scores.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: If they get a touchdown, it's a different game, forces a sack on third and goal.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now you got to kick a field goal, and the game was over.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: The lines never got the ball again.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: and he's done that a couple times he ended the the cardinals game basically by himself he ended the giant's game basically by himself he's able in these fourth quarter Jeff athlete compared him to Mario and Rivera he is one of the preeminent if the if the Browns won a little bit more miles Garrett would be but they don't so
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have probably the second best pass rusher in the NFL and he's able to dictate games like that that's going to be the narratives are going to be interesting because the packers probably have the preeminent defensive closer in the league right now.
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kail Williams and that bears offense like they've won some games in the fourth quarter.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard plenty of that this week from Chicago fans so we'll see we'll see who can win out in this because I don't think this is going to be a blow out either way.
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think this can be a close game relatively speaking in the fourth quarter.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So someone's going to have to will out in that one.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree with you.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that you go back in the thing with the bears.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: The bear's line obviously is playing a ton better.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Last year, Kail Williams was stacked almost 70 times.
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not even anywhere close to that.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that when you look at it, some of his Caleb Caleb's done a way better job this season of not taking those sacks and getting rid of the ball.
• 40:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: that that pressure to Zach Ratio has changed a lot.
• 40:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we've seen past Russia's create problems in other ways and Max Crosby, for example, that game against he rift our day the first half of that game.
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: The bears were able to win it at the end, but he had like four tipped passes, a forced fumble and interception.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: There and very like be honest, very lucky to win that game at the end.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a vlog kick at the end.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, but granted, we had a lot of those opposite last year.
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you take the ones that you can get, but yeah.
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't, I feel like Caleb hasn't been just getting crushed every game with the past rush, but things have affected what he's able to do and you never want that to happen.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's similar.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: which I would love there's been games where maybe he's not getting sacked five six seven times a game but once you start getting him uncomfortable that's when you start maybe seeing some of the other issues arise but what about the secondary uh there's some names back there obviously we're still familiar with but one that I keep seeing pop up recently valentine uh he's a name that in all of the like ranking pff stuff I'm seeing his name is popping up there in the the NFC North guys and then that got back in so chat a little bit about the secondary
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have to protect these corners a little bit.
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that affects the way that they're willing to play.
• 41:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Jeff Haffley, if he had to pick, he'd get to play a lot more man coverage than he's played.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: He would get to play a lot more press than he's played.
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, Karynton Valentine can press wants to be aggressive.
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was outstanding against the Vikings.
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you know, nine contributed to that.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you watched the tape, like there's not Justin Jefferson in Jordan Addison running free on Karynton Valentine.
• 41:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is a very physical player.
• 41:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to redirect you.
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he is going to let you know about it.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: If his hands were 30% better, he'd have like three or four more intersections this year.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: He had to hit him in the chest against James Winston.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he is an instinctive player.
• 41:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: He just can't, these ball skills are not great.
• 41:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if he were, if he had good ball skills, he played receiver.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a really, he's a really ascending player for the Packers.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: They really like the backup come all had in.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right now, Nate Hobbes is coming back.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's practicing this week.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: They gave him a big contract, but he's been kind of a nightmare as a boundary corner to Bob Bullard didn't practice on Thursday.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Nate Hobbes could play in the slot, which is where he played most of the time for the Raiders.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was that was his best position.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that would be, but that would be something we haven't seen for this packer's defense, something that they'd have to adapt to, and then Kishan Nixon is just a solid corner.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to change your life.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to be reviciling by any means, um, but teams are just like, they're not really testing him.
• 42:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know why because I think Carrington Valentine is just straight up a better player, but, um, they just play sides.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're not going to, they're not going to follow anybody.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to chase.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're just going to do what they do.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now the, the straws that serve the drink that are the safeties.
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: say for me, Kenny and Evan Williams.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I believe Ben Johnson called them the best safety duo that in the league or the best safety duo that they'll face one of those two.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think you could you could say one of the best in the league like it's Brian Branch and Kirby Joseph.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then these two guys like I really think that the Evan Williams especially is playing that well this year he is a huge part of what they do in the run game just if you choose want to watch a player be a heat seeking missile as a run defender Evan Williams is that guy and he can do it from depth Taylor that's the cool thing about him is you don't have to insert him into the fit you don't have to have him in the box he can do it from deep like every week he's got a highlight play where he's coming from a deep half to make a play behind the line of skirmish in the run game because he's just so instinctive.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is so confident in his reads and is usually right like it is I cannot think of a play this year where he flies down hill and that opens up something over the middle of the field because he was wrong like he's just he just really has a feel For the game the football intelligence is off the charts and it has to be he's not the most physically gifted guy you've ever met
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: maybe seventh round player.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the packers, they took a chance on him and I, you know, I said earlier that you're, I think he should be a probable player.
• 44:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's how good he's been sealed the game against.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: The, the giants with a interception of James Winston, I would ceiling is overstating it against JJ McCarthy because that game had been over for.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: feel what felt like hours, but, but have basically the clinching interception and that one.
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the ball skills for those two guys, they're McKinney and Evan Williams.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason the Packers have one of the best explosive play defenses in the NFL.
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Teams are just not throwing deep on those safeties because they respect the playmaking ability of Xavier McKinney and Evan Williams.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So before I let you go, let's chat.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to get some of your thoughts on the bear side of things because the tweet that went viral recently, it was, you know, if you take away the bear's takeaway.
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
• 44:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: than the, you know, the defenses.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I run according, right?
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: You take away, which I don't think any bears fanwood argue.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the more defense side of things would be that, you know, there's been no tremendous.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: No TJ.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had a lot of it.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you talk about the corners, you play the majority of the season without Kyler Gordon and without Jalen Johnson.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, the defense is not what you thought.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: The good news for the fairs is these guys are coming back and Jalen Johnson and Kyler now back looks like TJ Edwards will be back this weekend.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Though it's still problem with the fairs is that there's still no pass rush.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's no natural you talk about the the packers just they don't have to send they don't have to have pressure and pressure do extra things because they have that bears don't they have to Dennis Island's had to be
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: very creative in what he does in manufacturing some of those things and disguises and trying to find ways to get that pressure.
• 45:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: But chat a little bit defensively, the takeaways are going to be a conversation.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But outside of that, what are you talking about in the Packers world of that that the bear's defense?
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the thing that is funny because this was a discussion with the Packers defense last year on the offseason people were going I don't you know they didn't they didn't buy it with the Packers defense and they went oh the takeaways the takeaways were the thing and takeaways are volatile and that's true so like I like let's let's be clear about this I think takeaways are a volatile statistic right now this is crazy Taylor and I'm sure you know this number but
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: plus 17 in turnover margin this season.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The next closest team is plus nine.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are lapping the field in turnover margin, and it's because they've taken the ball away more than anybody else.
• 46:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so those sorts of things, when you're also not good play to play,
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you exclude turnovers, and let me explain what happens here, when you exclude turnovers, what you're doing is you're excluding turnovers for everybody.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So how are the teams when they're not creating turnovers?
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of them, the bears are 30th in EPA per play.
• 46:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So when they're not creating turnovers, they're not defending soundly.
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's born out by their yards per play numbers, because yards per play numbers don't include turnovers, right?
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's yards per play.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're they're giving up almost seven yards per play.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's 30th in the NFL.
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So on a down to down play to play basis, the defense is not very good.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The last team to turn opponents over like this was the 2019 Steelers.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that Steelers team was awesome.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that defense was really, really good down to down to two.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's when you get into these conversations about like, okay, are you, are you getting a little lucky with turnovers or or you not last year the packers, if you exclude turnovers, they were still a top 10 defense by EPA, so my argument was, well, yeah, look, yes, they created a bunch of turnovers, but even when they weren't, they were really good, that's not the case for the bears and I think that the bears problem this week for the packers and the reason why I think the packers will win not the preempt if you're going to ask me to predict anything, but
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: is Jordan Love is the number one quarterback this year in EPA, quarterback rating, PFF grade, whatever, from a clean pocket.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: From a clean, if you give Jordan Love time, you spend the best quarterback in the NFL this year by efficiency.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you blitz him, he's also been the number one quarterback in the NFL.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The teams that have been able to have success have been able to do it by rushing for and just creating pressure that way.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're the bears, you just haven't done that all year.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you get an outlier game and you can do that, maybe you can force some turnovers.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: like that would be that would be surprising right given the track record of the teams this year.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything can happen any given Sunday coach Jeff Jagazinski is a former Packers OC he does our lockdown Packer squad show he always says every Sunday you're eligible for an ass kicking so let's be clear in in a one game sample anything can happen but I just don't think the bears are going to be able to get enough pressure on Jordan love to make him make the the mistakes that the bears have gotten so far this year the Packers are also one of the best turnover teams in the NFL seven and oh when Jordan love doesn't throw an interception.
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: um, they only have eight wins.
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, you know, that's, that's a, that's a big deal for this team.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I think that, that's, that's, that's going to be enough.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Turnovers are dictate wins.
• 48:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the time, I think the Packers are the, the rest of the league is like 1, 25 and 36 or something like that.
• 48:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: This year when a team gets two plus turnovers.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the bear's average two plus turnovers.
• 49:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So of course, they've got a great winning percentage.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like everyone wins a lot of games when they get a lot of turnovers.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: The question is, can you do it when you don't get those turnovers?
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the packers don't win the ball or don't turn the ball over.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they win this game.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know if any bears, well, maybe they do argue with you.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I've seen from the start of the season.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: A moment where I felt like this defense was playing really well.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just think there's been reasons for that outside of just the defense sucking, like a lot of people, not you know.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: But to your point, yeah, I think that's why.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: The only defense isn't any better.
• 49:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 49:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and the run defense has gotten better.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was terrible.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: The first probably like seven, eight, nine weeks.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Every time a team would come play as Chicago, it was like, okay, well, here's your chance for your running back to do whatever they want to do.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It has gotten a little better.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Part of that, I think, is the,
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: health of the linebacker some of that i think is great is here at he was very beat up so he wasn't playing he's helped color Gordon on the field helps a ton in the run game so some of those things i did better against filly for sure like say quan yeah even even though say quan is averaging i think 60 yards per game this year like they held that running game in check and that's you know that's that's not a small thing
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we will see, but to your point, I do think that the bears have relied a lot on the takeaways, but I think that's fine because it's their identity.
• 50:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel in the first four or five weeks that felt like this isn't sustainable, like we're not going to be able to keep doing this all year.
• 50:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So other pieces are going to have to step up, but every we've been able to do it now for 12 13 weeks where it's just like when you.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But a certain part doesn't matter if it's sustainable if you can sustain it in like the playoffs, right?
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like every every game it seemed like in the playoffs was determined by who turned the ball over the most.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you if you just create a bunch of turnovers, you can go on a run, no doubt.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's happened, you know, with with the bears this year.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been it's been up and being six and one in one score games and you create a bunch of turnovers and you create big plays on offense, like you're going to give yourself a chance to win a lot of these games.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and yeah, so I agree with you though, in the sense of I think the bears if they're not getting a couple turnovers this weekend, it's probably going to be a win for the Packers and I said that on a podcast earlier, just because it does feel like that's been the recipe for wins is getting a takeaway or to letting the run game just dominate everything the past game compliment when you really need it to a lot of them obviously have been fourth quarter comebacks and I could see it coming down to
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: that fourth quarter again, because that's kind of the football we've played all year, but Peter actually will ask you a question.
• 51:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know we're running along.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, go ahead.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: What?
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the Caleb Blames piece, we haven't said that much about Caleb Blames.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's intentional, maybe it's not.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the completion percentage numbers, the accuracy numbers, the on target numbers, when I watch the tape, like the accuracy has not been there,
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Consistently, what is the explanation for that from your standpoint and how much of that do you think is fixable because it's also the case that he's throwing into the fewest type windows in the NFL among preferred starters so it's like he's getting some good looks and not hitting them so my my question is why not what what are you seeing what's the deal.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that the accuracy clearly still has to get better, but to your point earlier, I think we see the moments where you know he can hit and type, honestly, there's times where I feel like the more difficult passes he does better than the easy stuff, and that's where like, if Ben Johnson's a little James Winston in him, do what?
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a little James Winston in him that way.
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's going to make the most amazing throw you've ever seen, but not turn over like, and then he's going to airway without the interceptions, but then he's going to air mail and out route and you're just sort of like, I just saw the throw you just made like can you just do that do the things consistently and that's so to me, I think that it been Johnson wanted to just.
• 52:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: stack up his completion percentage, which you said in the beginning of the year, he wanted it to be 170%.
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's obviously not happening right now.
• 52:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you wanted it to, I think he would simplify the offense and tell Caleb to focus more on the check downs and do some of these quicker things.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's not.
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's letting Caleb do some kind of of the out of structure stuff.
• 52:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: sure, but then he's also still asking him to complete more of these difficult passes because I think he knows he can and he wants him to get better at those things.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So to me, if we wanted to pad his completion percentage, I think you could.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think you could easily say here, here's some easy button things for you to do.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Make it a 65 completion percentage and so everybody stops talking, but Ben Johnson won't do that because Ben Johnson is not making it easy on Caleb Williams and I'm fine with that.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I do think you guys know this from last year.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: The drops were a huge issue in Green Bay last year and this year for whatever reason that is a part of the the bears offense to every game you're seeing through your four that are incredible throws by Caleb that are dropped.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: They hit the hands and it's just right there.
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're missing four or five.
• 53:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's thrown the ball away like against the Eagles if you go back and watch that there were definitely a few that he just threw down.
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: through a way and so that's kind of affecting.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a lot of factors, but there's no denying.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's still a lot of room to grow and where he is in the accuracy part of things.
• 53:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just think that there were so many boxes that they had to check after last year of things that regressed under Shane Waldron that they're like, okay, let's get this sack right down.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's start with that.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get some of this.
• 54:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: You only can play out of structure stuff out of the way.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they figured some of that stuff out.
• 54:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's use your legs a little bit more.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've started to do that intentional rather than just taking off a running wild and losing yards.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: He looks faster this year.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: He looks faster this year.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So fast, there's been some times where I'm like, I don't think he ran that fast last year, like, really don't.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Peter, I do, I think it's a combination of things.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that there's still a lot of room to grow, but I do think it is, I'm not looking, I don't watch it and from the way that Ben Johnson talks, I don't feel like it feels unfixable.
• 54:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's Ben Johnson saying, I'm giving him all of these hundred things to get better at because I know he can be and the ceiling for me is higher.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: If I didn't believe that, he wouldn't throw the ball 40 times when they were running the ball the way they were against the Eagles and he almost did.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: He threw the ball 37 times still and I think Ben Johnson would have taken that lowered that quite a bit.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: If he didn't have the confidence that Caleb could get better at some of the things that he's struggling with.
• 54:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: They also ran like a hundred plays in that game.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know so many.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like this is I was shocked at the end.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was just sitting there and I'm like, I can't believe we're just dominating at the way we did.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the Eagles had 17 snaps in the first half of that football game.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you final one before I let you go, actually.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Ben Johnson, Matt LaFler, Dan Campbell, Kevin O'Connell.
• 55:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's particularly close.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is the best coaching top to bottom.
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have seen in my lifetime in the NFC North.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just like add the NFC Central.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we've ever seen a top to bottom list of coaches where all of them have a case to be top 10 coaches in the NFL.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really, I think that's true.
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's funny because I think before the year, I would have had a different ranking.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think before the year, I would have had Kevin O'Connell first and I think that part of what's gone on this year has to be hung on his neck, I think picking Jay Jim McCarthy and believing in Jay Jim McCarthy is partially a Kevin O'Connell problem and so but I do think he's just so smart and so charismatic.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really just like him a lot and I think the
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is so tough.
• 56:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I would like to see more from Ben Johnson.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's start there.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's an incredible schema of offense.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I think we have to give him time.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: If we're just, if we're just ranking offense, like if we're just ranking play callers, okay?
• 56:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's do that.
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: That'll be easier for me.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Ben Johnson would be one.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think Malaforby too, I think Kevin O'Connell will be three and I think Dan Campbell will be four and I think but none of that's not a slight to any of them like I think they're all really, really good coaches.
• 56:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you put any of those guys in like the AFC South, they'd be the best coach in the conference or the division like no question to me.
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not the division they play.
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like total package, I think it's still it's still early on Ben Johnson, that's part of the problem.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Battlethor's been the most successful coach.
• 57:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been the most gotten the furthest the most often.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's done the most with less.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard for me not to have him right at the top, but I think you can make the case for Kevin O'Connell or Dan Campbell.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is not a slide on Ben Johnson.
• 57:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's he's 11, 12 games into his NFL head coaching career.
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's give it a little time.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think the shirt off all of that stuff was cheesy?
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but I think a lot of coaching stuff is cheesy.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of being a coach is artifice.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is doing things to get your guys to a certain plate.
• 57:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Watch Davos winny one time in front of a podium.
• 57:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that man is cheesy as hell.
• 58:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's one national title.
• 58:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like that is it's okay to be a little cheesy as a head coach.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did I think it was a little cringe?
• 58:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did I think it was a little tri-hardy?
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think a lot of things that coaches do are like that.
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it did though.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will say remind me a little bit after the packers lost of the Vikings in Minnesota.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: They threw a parade for Samdhan on the locker room and they've been a can I swear on the show.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: They've been a disaster since then.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that's what's going to happen with the bears, but it did remind me of that like we're celebrating a regular season win a little too aggressively aren't we for you know it's November can we let's wait for like this number January for those 9 and 3 and you're number one in the NFC if you're a bear if you're the bears you're doing that.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get it if you're the if you're the bears but you're different your packers man.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to go back to this goes back to cow brands word on the packers whatever was six eight weeks ago and that was entitled we are entitled the packers a packers coach and team would never do that on a black Friday went ever it just wouldn't happen so.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we may say your guys are boring them.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Listen fine.
• 59:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll take it boring boring boring winning 10 11 12 games every year is is very good It's like my wife who's a former D1 golfer.
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I say isn't it boring to hit every fairway and every green She said no, it's really fun to be really good.
• 59:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah Well, and that's what with the Ben John.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's inside joke things because the winner circle plays said if Ben Johnson takes it I know the joke, but like
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's like other things, but I also think every single game that's been I mean the first when they started Owen too and that first when after they're already acting like that.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's more so the energy of the team and the buy and yeah to your point.
• 59:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do think things are good.
• 59:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a little bookish and we had questions about like can he be a leader in all those things.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he's not.
• 59:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's not that and I was talking to it.
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was talking to someone at the combine.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, people think that he is this and he's not he is someone who can command the room and early on he wasn't like that, but he's grown into that and he knew he needed to do that and so I think that you know he right he could have left two years ago.
• 1:00:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: didn't.
• 1:00:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the reasons he didn't is he felt like he wasn't ready.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to not just find the right opportunity, but he wanted to be the best version of himself because you get one opportunity to be a head coach maybe too.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: After that, you're done.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to be really judicious.
• 1:00:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even though there's only 32.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: to make sure that you are absolutely ready when you get that opportunity.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And look at all these coaches in the division, our first time had coaches.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Think about that, all these guys, our first time had coaches, not a retry among them.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that speaks to the potential for this being a bloodbathed of a division for years to come.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it definitely feels like it at this point, Peter, we went really long, but I appreciate you.
• 1:00:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm sorry for keeping you, but I appreciate it as always, and I hope you guys lose this weekend.
• 1:00:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Same to you.