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The Secret Alliance That Changed Chinese History | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel podcast
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Chinese history series where we talk about Chinese history from
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the deepest antiquity to what we optimistically hope will one
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: day be the present day. The theme of today's episode
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: is in a way the reversal of fortune after great defeat.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Defeat is often not final unless you yourself entirely give up,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: even though it may feel like the world has ended
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: at the time. What is even more impressive is if
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: you can convince others to come share your risk with
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you after your great defeat. The United States in our
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: own day is trying to do this by getting other
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: countries to join economic D-Day against Iran after having been
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: militarily defeated by the Iranians. And this is not going
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: so well in our own day. But The ancient Chinese
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: history provides a successful example of this. From the period
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: of what later historians called the Chu-Han contention, the Qin
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: dynasty has fallen, and the two main rebel leaders have
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: set themselves up as kings. One a king of Han
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: and a king of Chu, and the king of Han subsided.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: suffered a severe defeat after almost seemingly winning. But as
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: we will see, he will have a way of leveraging
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: other people to join him, even at this nadir of
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: his fortunes. So to tell us more about this is
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: our host, recovering from an illness that failed him last weekend,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Carl Tsa from Bali. Hey, Carl, sup?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for that lovely intro.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: I am back. We are going to dive right back
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: into the period of civil war after the immediate collapse
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: of the Qin Dynasty. After the collapse of the Qin Dynasty,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: the rebels who won immediately started fighting among themselves. They
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: separated into two camps. One camp headed by Xiang Yi,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: the man most responsible for the collapse of the Qin Dynasty,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: and Liu Bang, who directly caused the collapse of the
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Qin Dynasty. And Liu Bang was on a roll. Initially,
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: he had united almost all the other kings against Xiang Yu.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: They gathered a force of supposedly 560,000 troops. Of course,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: I think that's a total strength of all the kings
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: that united against Xiang Yu. I don't think they're all
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: gathered in one place. But anyway, Liu Bang took Xiang
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Yu's capital, Pengcheng, while Xiang Yu and the Chu army
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: was deep inside the Qi territory, Xiang Yu was stuck
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: in a people's war in the state of Qi because
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: he spent time looting and pillaging. So all the people
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: of Qi raised banner of rebellion against him. And that's
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: when Liu Bang took his headquarters And while everything was looking,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: going good for Liu Bang, Shang Yu did this blitzkrieg
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: with 30,000 Calvary forces crossing the mountains and completely surprised
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang. And Liu Bang was decisively defeated. The dead
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: bodies of Han soldiers blocked the flow of three rivers
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: and Liu Bang had to flee for his life, you know, uh,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: in doing so almost like he repeatedly throw his own
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: children down from the carriage in order to reduce weight. Uh,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: thankfully for his, uh, carriage driver, Sha Hou Ying, those,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: his kids were saved.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Now, now last time you asked me if Sha.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Hou Ying was related to the famous Sha Hou Duan
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: and Sha Hou Yuan brothers from the three kingdoms period. Yes,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: they are. Sha Hou Ying, in fact, their direct ancestor.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: And because Cao Cao was adopted from the Cao family,
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: from the Xia Hou family. So biologically, Cao Cao also probably.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: Ah, okay. So that explains the loyalty to an extent
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. But because Cao Cao was adopted into the Cao family,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: he sees himself as a Cao family member. So he
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: claimed descent from Cao Chan, who is another one of
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: the Niu Bang followers. later become a prime minister. So
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: at this time, Liu Bang was on the run. But,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: you know, one thing that he has in abundance is optimism, right?
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: He's not a pessimistic guy facing this catastrophic defeat. A
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: lot of people probably just gave up and off themselves.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: But Liu Bang apparently was doing okay psychologically.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: You know, like one time he was.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Pursuing Chu general Ding Gong almost caught up to him.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And Liu Bang said, why would two great men such
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: as us with, uh, you know, do harm to each other?
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: You know, why? For some reason, Ding Gong thought that
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: and just called off the pursuit and Liu Bang was
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: able to get away. Uh, I think this also shows, uh,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: you know, like even, I think I, my, my guess is, uh,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: they probably knew each other from before. Niu Bang and
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu, they fought together prior. And also, we mentioned
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu is the type of person who is very
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: stingy with giving out rewards. So for Ding Gong, probably
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Niu Bang is already defeated. Arresting Niu Bang, probably not
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: going to land him great rewards with Xiang Yu. And
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: he's just like, yeah, well... my old acquaintance, I just
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: let him go. Yeah. And, uh, and then Liu Bang
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: made this narrow, powering escape. He, uh, briefly stayed in a, a,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: a local family, uh, uh, for the, spent the night there.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: And while he was there, he, he found the, the
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: daughter of the, of his host to be very beautiful. So, so,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: you know, that night he, you know, he, he, he, uh,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: He got on with a daughter and then took her
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: with him. This also shows a lot of optimism. I
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: remember there was a report on the Olympics. They say
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: during the Olympics, there's usually a lot of condom usage.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of sex going on around the Olympics.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: But the female and the male athletes have different behaviors.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: The male athletes usually have increased condom usage after their
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: victory because that's when their testosterone are high. Whereas the
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: women athletes, it's usually after losing. They need comfort, right?
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: But Liu Fang apparently was.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Outpaced, right?
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: He was outpaced by his great loss. No, he was
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: still banging this chick he met on the road. And
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: this woman would later become his favorite, Lady Qi. And
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: Lady Qi would later bore him a son and become
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: a major rival to his future, his... Official wife.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Official wife and his crown prince. And that's for later.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So Liu Bang, before.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: His great defeat, he actually sent his brother-in-law, Lv Ze,
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: to lead a reserve force in Sha Yi. So this time,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: his brother-in-law's forces are still intact. So he went to
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Sha Yi. And then at this point, he started to
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: gather all the remnants of his army. and he called
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: a meeting, right, to now have a pep talk. And
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: first he admitted his mistake. He's like, it's all my fault.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: I got too complacent. I was blindsided strategically. It's all
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: my fault. Will that happen again? Again, we still have
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: a chance. We still control all the former Qing lands.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: And now Xiaohu is mobilizing all the people he could
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: continually send the reinforcement to the front. And we still
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: hold all the major mountain passes, right? So we are
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: not defeated and we still have a chance to come back. Now,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: if I do win, I promise to share all the
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: former six states, land of all former six states with
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: you guys.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Now, this is a great incentive.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Well, even though at this time, Liu Bang doesn't control
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: any of those lands anymore because most of the six
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: states are either controlled by Xiang Yu or his vassals.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: So Liu Bang is very generous. Like, okay, this is
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: all land up for grabs. But this is a great price.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: This is an even greater price compared to like the
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: King Huai's promise. You know, King Huai famously promised who made,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: who overthrow the Qin dynasty will get to be made
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: the king in the land of Qin. But it was
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: only limited to the former land of Qin. Now the
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: lands of former six states is much, much bigger, right?
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: And so... At this point, Liu Bang's famous advisor Zhang
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Liang intervened. He said, okay, actually, you don't have to
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: go that far. You only need to get three people
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: on your side. And then he goes on to list
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: the three people. One is Peng Yue. Peng Yue is
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: an independent rebel. leader that once worked with Liu Bang.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: But this was the head of the fishermen who gathered
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: his own force. But when Liu Bang left to overthrow
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Qin dynasty, Pen Yue stayed around the area, and he
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: built a force of several tens of thousands. But again,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu left Pen Yue out when he was dipping
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: up the spoils. And that's why the king of Qitianzong
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: appointed Pen Yue as a general and used Pen Yue
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: to defeat one of the kings that Xiang Yu appointed,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: the king of Jibei, Tian'an, And then when later Shang
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: Yu sent his own force against Pen Yue, Pen Yue
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: was able to defeat the true forces. So Zhang Liang's like, look,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Pen Yue already have a rift, have a beef with
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Shang Yu. And he has shown his strength by repeatedly
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: defeating true forces. All we got to do is now
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: that Tian Zhong, his old master, had died, now we
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: just got to give him time Title, recognition, promising land,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you will join our side. It's easy. Number two, Han Xin.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Han Xin is already in your employment. All you got
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: to do is to show him more love, give him
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: more trust, give him more army to command.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: At this time, Han.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: Xin is still besieging Zhang Han back in Guanzhong, but
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: that siege will soon be wrapped up. So just give
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Han Xin more troops, give him more responsibility, he'll be
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: more loyal to me. Now, the third one, very important one,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: is king of Jiujiang, Yim Bu. Now, Yim Bu is, so,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang's like, how do I do that? Yim Bu
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: is a subordinate of Xiang Yu, right? And Yim Bu
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: himself is famous for bravery. This guy was He used
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: the tip of spear of the Tu army during the
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: famous battle of Juilu when Xiang Yu possibly crushed the
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Qin forces. Yin Bu led the vanguard. He led the
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: vanguard a couple times.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: He broke through into Guanzhong when Liu Bang tried to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: keep Xiang Yu out.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu always used him as the tip of spear.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: In fact, there was a Chinese idiom that described Yin
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Bu as Yongguan, it says his bravery is his bravery
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: is superior to all three armies. That's a phrase originally
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: used to describe Yinggu. That would be great if we
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: can get him on our side, but how? He's a
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: loyal subordinate of Xiang Yu. Zhang Lian said, I don't
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: think he's that loyal. First of all, when Shang Yu
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: led his forces against the king of Qi, Tianlong, he
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: asked Yim Bu to send him a leader force to
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: join him. But instead, Yim Bu pled illness. Yim Bu
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: claimed he had illness and only sent 4,000 troops. Right. Force.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: And then later, when you took Shang Yu's capital city, Pengcheng,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: guess what did Yin Bu do? He did nothing. He
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: just sat around doing nothing. So this is enough to
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: show that he was really not that loyal to Shang Yu.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: There's already a rift between the two. You just got
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: to find an opportunity to exploit that rift. And at
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: this point, Liu Bang looked around, okay, any volunteers? Any
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: volunteers to persuade Yin Bu to defect? I only need
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Yin Bu to defect and hold off Xiang Yu's forces
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: for a few months, and then I will win all
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: under heaven. Whoever volunteers to go persuade Yin Bu will
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: be handsomely rewarded.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: So finally, a person named Shui He stood out. He said,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I can go. Li Wubang's like, you sure?
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Just you?
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So he's like, yeah, yeah, I can do it.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Okay, fine. You know, one thing Li Wubang is very
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: good is he's very good at trusting and very good
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: at delegating. He's like, okay, this guy's out here. So
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: he gave Shui He 20 people to travel to see
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: the king of Jiuzhang, Yin Bu. And when Shui He
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: arrived at the court of Yin Bu, Yin Bu posed
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: him generously, you know, give him lodging, give him food,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: but just would not see him. He stayed there for
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: like half a month, but he would not be able
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: to get an audience with Yin Bu.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Yin Bu's man always finds some excuse.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: So Shui He knew at this point that Yin Bu
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: is still sitting on the fence. He needed an extra push.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: So he told Yin Bu's man, look, I understand right
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: now Yin Bu's position is because the king of Chu,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Shang Yu, is strong.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And my lord master, king of Han, Liu Bang is weak.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: That's why he refused to see me, but just allow
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: me a chance to make my point. If the point
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: I make are valid, King Yin Bu can listen. If
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: what I say is BS, he should just cut off
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: my head and present it to Shangri-La, so Shangri-La would
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: not have any suspicions. So having made that case, Yin
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Bu granted the audience to Sui He, And immediately Shui
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: He asked Yin Bu, why do you serve Xiang Yu?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Yin Bu said, oh, because I'm his loyal subordinate.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And then Shui He said, well, are you sure?
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: You know, to be a loyal subordinate, you're supposed to
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: help your master Xiang Yu when he was sick. got
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: bogged down in the quagmire that is the Qi state.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: He asked for your help, yet you pled illness and
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: only sent a token force of 4,000 men. And later,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: when King of Han, my master, had captured Shang Yu's capital, Pengcheng,
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: you sat around and did nothing, even though you commanded
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: tens of thousands of troops. At that point, what you
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: should have done is mobilize all your troops, sent them
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: across the Huai River north, to try to pay back
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: the true capital. Yet, I observe not a single soldier
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: from your domain cross the river.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: So that tells me.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Otherwise. So Yim Bu has no response to this. And
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: so Xu Yifeng expressed his case. He's like, look, I understand.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: Right now, you submit to Yim Bu because you submit
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: to Xiang Yu. Because Xiang Yu is strong. And And
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: whereas my master, king of Han, is weak. But this
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: power balance is only temporary. Right now, the Chu and
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Han are fighting it out. But all the other kings,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: all the other lords are scared of Xiang Yu. And
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: all the common people hate him. He already lost popular support.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: If he was about to defeat the Han forces, then
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: the others would have come to the aid of Han
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: because they were afraid of Shang Yu taking over for
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: self-preservation purposes.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: They would have helped.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: And besides, right now, the king of Han, he still
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: held the mountain pass. He held a stronghold at Xinyang.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: We should point out that he is kind of bullshitting
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: here because all of the vassal kings who rallied to
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Liu Bang have all defected back to Xiang Yu.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: But anyway, let's go on.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Then he said Liu Bang is holding all the major
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: mountain passes. That's true. He still holds the stronghold of Xinyang.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: Xinyang was where the Qin dynasty store its major granary depot.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: The imperial granary was located in Xinyang. That's why Xinyang
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: was besieged by rebel Wu Guang, but was never taken
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: because it's for medical defenses. And he said, the King
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: of Han is holding out in Xinyang. And while the
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: reinforcement continued to come from Sichuan and from the former
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: land of Qin. So there's Whereas for him to attack,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: try to break through, his supply line is very long.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Now he had to recruit even all the old and
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: feeble to draft them to corvée labor to supply grain
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: for his troops. So the longer this campaign goes on,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: the weaker, more untenable his position will be. Because for
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: the fact that his supply line is long, and he
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: is actually fighting far away from his core territory he
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: is basically fighting through the territory of other kings who
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: do not wish Xiang Yu to be overly strong so
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: for this reason Xiang Yu's strength is actually his weakness
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Whereas now, if you agree to join the King of Han,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: he will be extra grateful. You won't be expecting any
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: rewards from Shang Yu. On the other hand, if the
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: King of Han wins of this conflict, and he only
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: needs you to hold out Shang Yu for a few months,
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: if the King of Han wins, he promised to give
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: all the land south of the Huai River to you
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: as a fee. Now that's a huge investment. inducement because
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: only get made the input, the king of Joe John,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: which is one single command. And on top of that,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Joe John used to be the territory of input was
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: father-in-law was way right.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Was it was the chief.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: Governor of the region. So in fact, you didn't even
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: divide up his own territory. He would just recognize inputs
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: control over a territory that Ying Bu and his father-in-law
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: already controlled previously. And this is also another reason Ying
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Bu wasn't very excited to join Xiang Yu's expedition because
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: any land that he will take, those land will become
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu's land. Because State of Qi is very far
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: from Ying Bu's territory. And he knows Xiang Yu's character,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: you know, very stingy with reward. And Ying Bu's great
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: ambition is to be king, and he's already king. So
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: he doesn't want to be, you know, be quartered around
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: by Xiang Yu anymore.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: And now Liu Bang is giving him, promised him.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: A much larger reward because the area, land of Huainan
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: is total of four commanderies versus one commandery that was
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: given by, legitimized by Xiang Yu. You know, that's four
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: times the territory if he wins. So at this point,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Ying Bu agreed to a secret pact with Liu Bang.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: But he said, let's keep this under wraps, right? Like,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: time is not right for me to openly go against
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu yet. He agreed to, like, at some point
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: in the future to go versus Xiang Yu. Now, Sui He, no, okay,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: he just needs a final push. And Sui He, while
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: he was staying with Ying Bu, he was, you know,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: gathering his own intelligence. And he find out that there's
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: actually an envoy from Shang Yu Bi that had arrived.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: But Yin Bu was trying to keep this two separate, right?
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Because he's still sitting on the fence. And so he
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: find out the time when Yin Bu was granting an
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: audience to the Chu envoy. And Sui He led his
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: men to broke into the meeting. And Sui He pointed
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: to the Chu envoy. to envoys saying, why are you
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: wasting your time here? Lord Yin Bu has already agreed
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: to throw his lots with my master, King of Han.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Why would he send forces to help Xiang Yu? and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: the two envoy was shocked and then realized oh crap
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: yinbu already defected so he got up in a huff
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: and about to leave and shuihe tell yinbu what are
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: you waiting for are you waiting for him to go
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: back and tell the news to his master kill him
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: now so yinbu has no choice and sees the two
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: envoy had him killed and the decision was already made
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: for him right at that point yeah so he uh
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: So Ying Bu raised a banner of rebellion officially against
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Shang Yu. Now, Shang Yu was very pissed when he
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: heard that news. I mean, this betrayal cut the deepest
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: because he had expected Ying Bu to be his right-hand man.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And Ying Bu was his vanguard for all this time.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: And so Shang Yu decided to pause the campaign against
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: pursuing Liu Bang's pressure and Liu Bang's defenses, and instead
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: ordered the bulk of the true forces directly go south
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: to suppress Yin Bu. And of course, Yin Bu was
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: no match for Xiang Yu's main forces, and he was
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: utterly defeated, and he had to flee.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: This is kind of what he explicitly signed up for, right?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Because the whole pitch from Liu Bang's envoy is that
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: you will distract Xiang Yu for at least a few months,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: which does imply that you will occupy Xiang Yu's attention.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Most of Xiang Yu's forces will be sicked on you.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And I guess Ying Bu had too much self-confidence in
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the moment.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: So, yeah. Well, I don't.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Know if that's what Ying Bu thought was going to happen.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Maybe Ying Bu just thought, okay, by me joining on
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang, he will kind of split Xiang Yu's force. Yeah, probably, maybe.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: He probably didn't expect He probably didn't expect Shang Yu
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: to just completely pause his campaign against Liu Bang and
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: send all the two forces against him, right? And so,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: of course, Yin Bu was no match. And then he
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: had to flee with Shui Fu to the camp of
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang. Now, when he went to meet Liu Bang,
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang was in his tent, being attended to with
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: two beautiful women washing his feet.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Now, Liu Bang did this before, right?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Like, this is exactly what happened when Li Yi Ji
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: had an audience with Liu Bang. At that time, Liu
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Bang also had two beautiful women watching his feed. Maybe
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: that's just Liu Bang's thing. You know, he really likes
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: two women, beautiful women watching his feed. But when Yin
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Bu came in, he thought, he felt greatly humiliated because
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: he basically throw all his lot, you know, risk everything
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: And now here it is, in an audience with Liu Bang.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang didn't take him seriously, right? He just sit
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: there with like two women washing his feet. So Yimu
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: got just stormed out and he wanted to kill himself.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: He was, because he felt like, oh my God, like,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: what did I, what have I done, right? I just,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: I did all this humiliation by myself. But then when
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: he came to the place where Liu Bang prepared for him,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: he realized it's a palace that's built to the same
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: standard to Liu Bang's own residence, you know, with the
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: same treatment. And then he thought, oh, okay, Liu Bang
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: still see me as a fellow king, right? He's still
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: giving the respect, you know, it's just that Liu Bang
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: is kind of the uncouth type of mafia boss that
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: he is. He just received everyone while having his feet
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: washed by women. So from that point, Ying Bu sent
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: people sneak back to Zhejiang to gather information and to
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: gather some of his old men. And the news came
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: back that Shang Yu had tasked his uncle, Shang Guo,
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: to collect all the troops in Zhejiang. But in doing so,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: also had Ying Bu's wife executed, publicly executed. Now this
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: kind of completely turned off, you.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Know, It ends any hope of reconciliation. Now it is
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: truly like war to the death between these two former allies.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Whatever hesitancy Ying Bu has, because so far this deal
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: has not given him anything. He's just taken lots of
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: risks and hits. So if Xiang Yu had taken his
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: wife as a hostage or something, there is maybe a
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: path back.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: But now there isn't. Yeah, but I think also this
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: shows a difference between Yin Bu and Liu Bang. Liu
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Bang's wife was taken hostage by Xiang Yu. But the
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: reason Xiang Yu didn't kill Liu Bang's wife is because
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: even though Liu Bang was defeated, but Liu Bang is
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: not completely crushed. So by holding his wife hostage, there's
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: still value in that. There's still value in holding Liu
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Bang's wife hostage because Liu Bang still has a force,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: still has land. But whereas Yin Fu has nothing. At
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: this point, Yin Fu lost all his land, his forces.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: And Shang Yu just wanted revenge, just wanted to make
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: an example out of this betrayal. So if you betray me,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I'll kill your whole family. Whereas Liu Bang, I mean,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure Shang Yu wouldn't mind killing Liu Bang's wife,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: but because Liu Bang is not completely defeated, there's still
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: value in holding his wife as hostage. In any case,
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: this made input completely in Liu Bang's camp. Liu Bang
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: did a couple of things. First, he made a trip
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: back to the Qin heartland, and he propped his son
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: with his wife, Liu Yin, as a crown prince. I
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: think it's successful.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So this first, he made sure there's a succession.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Plan. Even if he died, you know, the dynasty will
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: go on. And he made sure that the base is secure.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: So this is important. And also it's a concession to
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: his wife's side of the family because his brother-in-law, his
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: wife's older brother, at this time command a significant portion
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: of the army that was still intact because he was, uh, and, and,
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: you know, he, because the family was a prominent family
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: in the, in his hometown. So a lot of the
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: sons of the prominent family in, in Liu Bang's hometown,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: even though they don't like Liu, they may not like
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang or they don't, um, They don't feel like
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang is qualified to lead them, but they were
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: willing to follow Yu Zhe, Liu Bang's brother-in-law. And so
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang still needs his wife's family's support. And this
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: is another reason he made his son the crown prince.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: And another thing that happened is Han Xin finally finished
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: the eight-month siege of Zhang Han, finally broke through Zhang
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Han's Zhang Han at this time chose suicide rather than surrender.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: He killed himself. And now Han Xin is freed up
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: to lead Liu Bang's forces eastwards again. And the first
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: target of Liu Bang's... You.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Know, Zhang Han probably, if he had chosen to surrender,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Liu Bang probably would have taken him in, right? This
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: is a talented person who does not really have the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: political capital to stand on his own at this point, right?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: He will have had to switch sides a few times,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: but it's someone that Liu Bang could still have used.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: But for Zhang Han himself, this is probably like, he's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: probably kind of tired, right?
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: After everything.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: It's quite an amazing life, this guy. He's just like lowly,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you know, right? I guess, uh, what did you call it?
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Like warehouse manager kind of. Yeah.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Junior treasury kind of official in moment of crisis. It's
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: like some treasury official gets made like commander of the army,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: like Supreme commander wins becomes the Supreme commander. And, uh,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: but then like everything turns upside down because, uh, the
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: King back home is kind of like nuts or rather
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the King maker back home is kind of nuts. And
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: then he leads these giant armies into, he's leading these
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: gigantic armies into the fight, battle with the rebel forces.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: He surrenders on kind of terms and he gets, you know,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: some reward, but his whole army gets massacred later on.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: So after all this, you know, he might be like,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of pooped out.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: He was kind of betrayed by Xiang Yu after his surrender.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: His original surrender, submission to Xiang Yu, the deal was
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: he joins the rebel forces with his own army. So
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: they're supposed to be partners to overthrow the Qin dynasty.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: But instead, Xiang Yu turns around and has all Zhang
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Han's army massacred. So that kind of cut off Zhang
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: Han from his base of support and alienated Zhang Han
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: further from the people of Qin. Because now the people
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: of Qin hated his guts. So This is where Liu
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Bang came in. So yeah, yeah, he's probably just tired.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: And now the first one that's.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Going to, you know, become victim of Han Xin is
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: the king of Wei, Bao. Now the king of Wei,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Wei Bao, he was the younger brother of the former
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: king of Wei, Zhou, right? But Wei Zhou, When he
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: was besieged by Zhang Han, he agreed to surrender the
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: city with Zhang Han's promise that he would not massacre
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: the inhabitants. And then Wei Jiu had himself burned to death.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: And Wei Bao, he escaped to the Chu forces where.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: He received some reinforcement.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: And after the Battle of Zhulu, Wei Bao was able
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: to recover most of the Wei domain. Yet when it
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: comes to Xiang Yu to divide up the land, Xiang
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Yu wanted all the most fertile territory of Wei. So
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: he took that chunk and only left Wei Bao a
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: wrong state and made Wei Bao the king of Western Wei.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: And this is why Wei Bao joined Niu Bang in
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: his attack against Xiang Yu. But when Niu Bang was defeated,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Wu Yibao started having second thoughts, you know, like other
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: kids that all betrayed Obama. And at the same time,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Wu Yibao had an audience with the famous guy who
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: could read his unanimity, Xu Fu. Now, Xu Fu previously
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: made a famous prediction about Yin Bu, right? Xu Fu
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: had met Yin Bu when he was young, and he
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: told Yin Bu, look, first you will be marked by
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: corporal punishment, But after that, you will be king. And
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: that bold prediction came true. Yin Bu was first branded
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: as a criminal, got tattooed on the face, and later
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: he became king. So Xu Fu's fame spread wide and far.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: And one time, Wei Bao had an audience with Xu Fu.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: And Xu Fu was just keep on looking at Wei
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Bao's wife. And then Xu Fu made a remark that
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Wei Bao will remember. Xu Fu says, she will be
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: the mother of a future son of heaven. And Wei
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Bao is thinking, oh, my wife's son will be the
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: son of heaven? What does that mean? That means I
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: will be the son of heaven, right? My wife's son
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: will be the future emperor. That means I have a
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: good chance, I have a good shot. There's no future
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Bao and Liu Bang here. Liu Bang is defeated. So
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: he made up something.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: This is a funnier version of that prophecy about the
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: king of Lydia, I think it is, who has prophesied
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: that if he goes to war with Persia, a great
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: empire will be destroyed. Now, he says, your wife's son
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: will be emperor. No one actually promised who the dad
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: would be at this stage.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Assumption is very.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: With all these prophecies, you got to ask the right questions.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: You got to be very specific. Right? And so he
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: made a big assumption that he will be the dad.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: But it would not be the case because later when
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Wei Bao was defeated and so his wife was admitted
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: into Liu Bang's harem, one time Liu Bang saw her
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: and bedded her and then this resulted offspring of who
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: later become the third emperor of the Han dynasty.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: But he had nothing to do with Wei.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Bao, right? Yeah. But Wei Bao did, you know, he
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: didn't ask the right question. He just made assumptions. So he,
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: he went, he made an excuse to, to go back
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: to his realm. And there he decided to cut off
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: all contact with Liu Bang. And, then send a submission
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: letter to Shang Yu to make up with Shang Yu,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: just like the other kings. So Liu Bang was furious
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: and he decided to make Wei Bao an example and
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: he wanted to order Han Xin to lead an army
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: to cross the Yellow River to take away territory. But
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: his advisor Li Yi Ji volunteered, his diplomat Li Yi
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: Ji volunteered to go to persuade Wei Bao to change
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: his mind. Because Li Yiqi said, I am an old
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: acquaintance with Wei Bao, right? Maybe I can change his mind.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: And he went to see, so Li Yiqi went to
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: see Wei Bao and made his.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: You know, made his speech spill.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: And Wei Bao just waited for him to finish and said,
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: There's no way I'm going back to Liu Bang. Liu
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Bang has no respect. Liu Bang is freaking rude, man.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: He shows no respect to his subordinates, right? Any common
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: mistakes he makes, he always berates them. I don't want
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: to go back to live under Liu Bang, to be
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: chided as a child. No, sorry, not going to do it.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: So Li Yiqi.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Came back.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: Without compulsion, I think, but he gathered vital intelligence.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Li Yi Ji, he's more persuasive when he still has
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: the option of killing the guy that he was admitted
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to in confidence to try to persuade, right?
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: I guess that was an option here. That's right. The
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: first time he wasn't able to persuade his old acquaintance either.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: He had to kill him. That's true. So anyway, so
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: When Li Yiqi came back, he did come back with
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: valuable intelligence. And Liu Bang asked Li Yiqi, like, okay,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: so why is this Wei Bao so self-confident now? You know, like,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: why is he getting so cocky? Who is his commanding general?
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Li Yiqi said it's Bo Zi. And Liu Bang laughed.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: It's like, okay, Bo Zi is a young kid who
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: doesn't have enough experience to He will be no match
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: for Han Xin.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: But wait, who is the cavalry commander?
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: Maybe here he said, oh, the cavalry commander is Feng Jin.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: So Feng Jin is a son of a former Qin general.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: But Liu Bang said, but Feng Jing is okay, but
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: he still does not have enough experience. He's not like
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: his dad. So he will not be a match for
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: my own cavalry commander, Guan Yin. And then he asked,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: who are the infantry commanders? He's an infantry commander. Li
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Yiqi named the infantry commander. Liu Bang said, ah, okay,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: these guys are no consequences. There will be no match
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: for my general Cao Chan, Cao Cao's reputedly ancestor.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: He's like, okay, it's all set.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Liu Bang sent down Han Xin with a large army
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: to prepare to cross the river. But Han Xin still
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: wasn't sure. He wanted Li Yi to say, look, are
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: you sure so-and-so wasn't in command of the King Wei's forces?
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Li Yi's just like, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Bo Zi is a grand commander of Wei forces. And
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: then Then Han Xin laughed and said, okay, then we
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: have nothing to be afraid of. First, Han Xin chose
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: the point in the Yellow River that was the most
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: obvious choice to cross. It's a section of the Yellow
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: River where it's flat on both sides and there was
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: an existing river crossing. He ordered people to start building boats.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: He ordered Cao Sen to make a lot of boats
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: there to make it appear that that will be the
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: area where the Han forces will across. In the meantime,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: he sent another force up north and he ordered, oh,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: by the way, also before this, Liu Bang also start
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: to construct his, form his own cavalry forces because he,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: one of the, he ordered his people to gather together
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: to learn the lesson of their defeat at the Pengzhai.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Everyone's like, okay, well, Shang Yu's cavalry just moves too
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: fast and they strike too quickly. And Liu Bang's conclusion
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: is like, I need my own cavalry forces. And then
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: he ordered all the people to recommend who will be
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: the best cavalry officer. And everyone recommended these two men.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: And so Liu Bang ordered them to have an audience
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: with him, but they refused the offer of taking command
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: of cavalry. Liu Bang's like, why? Those two is like,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: but we are from the people, we are from the
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: state of Qin. The other people would trust us, you know,
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: because we were former Qin officers. And so why don't
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: you pick among one of your most trusted follower who can,
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: you know, ride a horse well. We will just be
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: his lieutenant. We will help him, make him the commanding general.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: And so Liu Bang looked around and appointed Guan Yin
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Guan Yin is one of the earliest Niu Bang followers
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: who followed him from his hometown of Pei. And Guan
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: Yin used to be like a seller of, a vendor
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: of silk. Now he goes around and sells silk. And
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: now he's made into a cavalry commander. And he was,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: with the help of the former two surrender Qing officers,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: he was able to build a strong cavalry force.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Match Xiang Yu's forces.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: And one of the reasons why Sima Qian, the future
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: grand historian, knows all these details is because he has
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: the first hand, well, not the first hand, but he
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: was pretty close to this period. He's less than 100
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: years removed from this period of war between Liu Bang
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: and Xiang Yu. And the account that he got about
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: Hongmen Yan, for example, the feast at Hongmen, that was
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: that account. Sima Qian listened to the story told to
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: him by Fang Kuai's grandson. Fang Kuai was the son
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: of Liu Bang's bodyguard at that time and also the
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: brother-in-law of Liu Bang's wife. And this is maybe why
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Fang Kuai had his height was... have a very prominent
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: role in the whole Feast of Hongmen story, because the
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: whole story was told through Fang Kuai's grandson, right? To
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Sima Qian. This is why Sima Qian was able to
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: nail down details to like, even which direction each person
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: was sitting. That Xiaomu Yu, for example, was sitting west,
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: facing east, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So Sima
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: Qian had, and he, had a lot of, you know,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: gossips also about these people when they were growing up
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: with Liu Bang. And Sima Qian used to say, you know,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: because Fang Kuai used to be a dog butcher, right?
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Because at that time, meat is a luxury. So before
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: the Qin dynasty, cow meat was, the beef was only
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: reserved for the rulers, for the kings. And for the
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: next level, the lords, they can't consume beef, mutton, or pork.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: These are the top three animals used for sacrifice. And
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: then after sacrifice, those meat are dipped up and being shared.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: But these are pig, cow, and sheep. They're reserved for nobilities.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: And this is why during the... famous passage says the
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: nobility and meat eater were kind of interchangeable terms. Right. Yeah.
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: This is, we remember this back from the Zhou dynasty times.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. And so for the commoners, they don't get
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: to eat beef, mutton, or pork, but they do have
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: access to have protein from the lesser animals that used
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: to be sacrificed. Those are chicken and dogs. So for
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: the commanders, they can only have dog meat. So Father
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: Kuai was a.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Dog butcher, dog meat butcher.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: And Guan Yin, the cavalry commander, was a silk vendor.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: So Sima Qian used to comment, like all these people,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: when they were living their life as dog butchers and
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: silk vendors, they thought like one day they will become
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: the important officials and lords of the realms. you know,
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: probably not. Uh, but, but on the other hand, I
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: think is it, it shows that, um, you know, maybe
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: during the, in the preaching period, like all these important
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: posts was taken up by all these fricking nobility, you know,
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: who had family. So suddenly after they get wiped out
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: and all these talented people suddenly emerge, have a chance
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: to prove themselves. Um, And another reason why, you know,
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: it's a big difference with the Qin Dynasty and the
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Han Dynasty is that Qin Dynasty, they didn't fully liquidate
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: all these former nobility class, right? Even though the Qin
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: tried to suppress them, tried to relocate them to the capital,
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: collect their weapons, but a lot of them still around
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: and they were around to plot the overthrow of the
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Qing dynasty. But in the few years after the Qing dynasty, though,
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of this nobility class will get physically liquidated
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: in the war. In the case of King Wei Bao,
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: he will get physically eliminated because they got caught up
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: in this titanic struggle. So anyway, Han Xin, he ordered
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: the people to build boats in open air. So the
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: king of Wei thought there would be an attack from
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: this direction. And then he sent Guan Yin north to
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: gather a lot of, so they only have, I guess
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: they don't have enough woods to build so many boats.
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: So instead to get those pots, those big jars, big jars,
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: and on top of the big jar, they place wood
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: planks to make a temporary floating platform And then use
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: those to cross a river from the north. I guess
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: it's probably because they just don't have time to construct.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Because all their boats are in the south to make
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: a show.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: The actual boats are there as decoys, basically. And they
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: have to rough it to cross where they actually do cross.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So that I will.
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: Maybe I will save that part of the story for
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: next week, on Han Xin's campaign against the State of Wei.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: And so so right now, Ying Bu has gathered his forces,
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: a few thousand men from his old fee for Jiujiang.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: And he will be eventually when the, when Han dynasty
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: was established, Ying Bu was made the King of Huainan
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: and Liu Bang was stuck to his promise, giving Ying
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Bu the command of four commanderies. Of course, that didn't
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: last long.
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: It's quite a sad story.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Near the end of Liu Bang, by now Emperor Gao
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Zu's life, his three top generals were made kings. will
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: all need to kind of, you know, bloody end. But
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: we will save that story for later. Yeah, we'll save
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: that story later. So, and meanwhile, you know, Peng Yue
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: is doing like a guerrilla war inside the Qing territory,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: you know, harrowing Shang Yu's supply lines. And also, but
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Liu Bang did deliver on his promised reward. So when
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Shang Yu was defeated, you know, one time, Liu Bang
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: was hosting a banquet. But he's instead.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: He intended on.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Rewarding Shui He, the man who went to, you know,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: persuade Ying Bu to defect.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: But he decided to start with a prank.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: He started by calling Shui He useless, you know, like
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: he's saying like, oh, to conquer all under heaven, you
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: still need a capable force.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: You know, like all these... all these Confucian.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Scholars who live by their tongue, they're completely useless. Like
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: these bookworms are completely useless. And he's talking to Bao Shuihe.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: So like the time that you persuade Yim Bu to defect,
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: you just got lucky. You just got lucky that one time.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: But Shuihe didn't take that lying down. Shuihe said, okay, okay, okay.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: If you say I'm useless, the time when you took
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yun's capital, Pengcheng, Even then, if you were sent
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: to 55,000 men south, would you have been able to
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: take over Yimbu's territory?
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: And they were probably not. And Suiko said, yeah.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Then you sent me with 20 men who I went
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: over and made Yimbu switch sides. How can you count?
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: That just showed that me and my 20 men are
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: more useful than 50,000 men.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: He was like, you know, you're right, you're right.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: I was actually thinking about how I can reward you, right?
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: So I never forgot what you did. So he did
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: make Yim Bu the king of Huainan, and he also
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: made Sui He an important general. So that is the
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: difference between him and Xiang Yu.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: He's very generous. He's very generous.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Of course, that generosity didn't last.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: This is something we're going to discuss later.
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: But At least initially, he stuck his promise of rewarding
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: his people generously. But for now, he got the three
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: guys that Zhang Liang said would be crucial to defeat
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Shang Yu. Tang Yue, who is.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Performing guerrilla war in.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: Chu territory to harass Shang Yu's supply lines. Ying Bu
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: is defeated temporarily, but he bought the valuable time, that
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: several months for the Han army to consolidate. He takes
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: the pressure off them for that few months, allow them
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: to build up their defenses, to hold the line. And
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: then Han Xin, once he wrapped up the siege of
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: Zhang Han, now he's free to strike north, to open
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: a separate front. not directly against Shangri, but against all
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: these other vassal kings.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: And Wei Bao will.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: Be the first, because he believed in this prophecy that
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: would come true. But he made a big assumption about
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: the prophecy itself. So we'll tell that story next time
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: when we get to it. Any other questions or comments?
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: I look forward to it.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I guess another one thing just to note is
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: that regarding the old six-state nobility, before when they were
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: all under the domination of the Qin state, they still
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: had their estates, so they were still wealthy but disempowered,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: so they could all stew in their resentment. Now, partially,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: because there is the opportunity to retake their old territories,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: the internal family rivalries all come off like the tian
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: family is getting decimated because of its own internal rivalries
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: right so far we have not had many of them
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: being killed by like liubang or shangyu themselves but different
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: leading members end up having to pick sides sometimes against
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: their own will and they end up like get getting
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: off in the like internet scene uh tian family struggle
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: right in the chi state.
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Tian Zhong was killed. Tian Zhong was killed. But
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: he was killed by the local people. Yeah, he was
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: killed by local people. So it's still an interesting conflict.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: But his brother Tian Tan is still leading the resistance
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: in the Qi state. Because Shang Yu, even though on
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: the surface he looks strong, but he has to put
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: fires everywhere.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: The Qi state is not pacified.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: The state of Zhao, even though Chen Yu made a
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: break with Liu Bang because he realized that.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: It's not the right head.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: It's not the right head. But Chen Yu still is
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: not officially an ally with Xiang Yu. And then you
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: have Pen Yue still attacking him in the rear. And
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: the most important thing, I think, was... his decision to
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: call off the attack on Liu Bang and attack Yin
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: Bu first. I mean, I think that's probably a mistake
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: because I don't think Yin Bu would have made.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: His main move against Shang, right? Probably not.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because he, but instead, because this is probably, one,
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: it's personal, and two, Shang Yu felt he needed to
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: make an example. But this gave Liu Bang valuable time
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: to reconsolidate. This is why Mao famously wrote a poem
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: when he was appointing the People's Liberation Army to cross
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: the Yangtze River to finally destroy the remnant of the
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: nationalist government in southern China.
• 56:26
  Speaker 5: Penned a poem that says, which means you should send
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: all your men to chase the fleeing enemy.
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: Do not learn from.
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: The hegemon king's example.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Do not follow the example of the hegemon king of Chu,
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu. Because Xiang Yu made a strategic mistake of
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: not directly pursuing... crush Liu Bang while he was down,
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: instead of diverting his forces against Yin Bu. Yeah, he
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: did put down Yin Bu's rebellion, but he didn't really
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: gain Xiang Yu anything.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: I don't think Yin Bu would have moved to attack
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu on his own.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Probably, because if Xiang Yu had broken back into Guanzhong,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Ying Bu is not going to rebel on his own
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: at that point, right? He would keep fence-sitting and maybe
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: try to make amends or something. So really, yeah, I
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: think that's correct.
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: Xiang Yu did make a mistake there.
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: Xiang Yu, I think his difference, he lacks some strategic advisors,
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: you know, like the....
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Even though Liu Bang can also be a.
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: Very emotional person, when Xiang Yu originally divved up all
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: the land and sent Liu Bang to Sichuan, Liu Bang
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: was actually very angry. He thought he decided he wanted
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: to go to war against Xiang Yu right then and there.
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: And it was Xiang He that told him, how about
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: we just choose to.
• 58:07
  Speaker 4: Live and not die?
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: He said, right now, if we go against Xiao Yu,
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: we'll get defeated for sure. We'll die for sure. If
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: we accept his impeachment, go to Sichuan, at least we'll
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: have a chance to live and then we'll have a
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: chance to consolidate and counterattack. And for Niu Bang's credit,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: he listened to Xiao He. He chose to live. So
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: even though Niu Bang had all these his also, at
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: least the moment of emotional outburst, but he was liable
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: to listen to advisors. And that's one of his biggest
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: strengths compared to Xiang Yu. Xiang Yu, for whatever reason,
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: he does not have his core people. Because Liu Bang
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: built a core following from the very beginning, from when
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: he was, even before he raised the banner of rebellion,
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: he was already a local leader. and all these people
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: follow him since his childhood. Whereas Shang Yu, up to
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: the time his uncle's death Shang Yu was just somebody
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: who's working for his uncle right his uncle had all
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: these maybe had all these connections commanded all these things
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Shang Yu has to kind of win respect by win
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: at battle of Ju Lu and then like people kind
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: of followed him but from battle to now, it's only
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: a couple of years. Xiang Yu didn't have the time
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: to build up his own loyal core follower yet. The
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: time is just too short for him to build his
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: own base. Whereas Liu Bang had all his life, even
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: though he looked like he was bombing around for the
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: first 48 years of his life. But at that time,
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: he was actually cultivating relationships. He was already a local leader.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: All these people that followed Liu Bang since his childhood,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: they had a relationship that goes way back for decades.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Whereas Xiang Yu, when he truly became a leader and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: trying to build his own core following, he only had
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: a span of a few years. I think that's his biggest...
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: Of course, I mean, like, he could have probably done better. Like,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: Han Xin used to be his secretary, and somehow Han
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Xin was so disappointed with him that he.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Left and went to Liu Bang.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: So there's probably other reasons for that. Like Han Xin said,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: you know, Xiang Yu is stingy, stingy with giving out rewards, which,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: you know, contrasts vaguely with Liu Bang. Anyway. Right. Okay.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: Until next time. Sure.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: Next time.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Bye.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: Bye-bye.