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Skeletons Lurk Inside “As‑Is” Auction Home · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Quodybius with Joseph Scott Morgan.
0:10
Speaker 2: A long long time ago when I was courting my wife,
0:15
Speaker 2: one of the things we like to do on the weekends,
0:17
Speaker 2: if we could ever get a weekend free, I was
0:19
Speaker 2: still work into medical examiner, was hopping our car and
0:23
Speaker 2: tool over to a little town in Georgia. And in
0:27
Speaker 2: this town they had this massive antique warehouse. Now, one
0:32
Speaker 2: of the things that was so intriguing about this particular
0:36
Speaker 2: location is that all of the antiques came from Europe,
0:41
Speaker 2: primarily Great Britain, and this is how it would go.
0:46
Speaker 2: These antiques arrived packaged in these gigantic wooden crates, and
0:52
Speaker 2: the people that wanted these, that ran antique stores, would
0:56
Speaker 2: merely go down sight unseen and bid on each individual crate,
1:02
Speaker 2: not knowing what was contained in them. I was always
1:05
Speaker 2: fascinated by that, Right, it's almost like a crackerjack, right, Well,
1:09
Speaker 2: you're spending quite a bit of cash. And then he
1:12
Speaker 2: would tell us when we would go over there about
1:14
Speaker 2: what it was like to open one of these things
1:16
Speaker 2: and find what was contained within. Some of it was jumped,
1:19
Speaker 2: and some of it was really really cool. We actually
1:21
Speaker 2: picked up a few pieces as a matter of fact,
1:24
Speaker 2: I've still got over one hundred year old English pub
1:27
Speaker 2: table that we eat at every day. But can you
1:33
Speaker 2: imagine for one second buying a house sight andseen on
1:40
Speaker 2: bid because there's been a foreclosure action. Amazing, right, you
1:47
Speaker 2: can't go in the house, it can walk around it,
1:52
Speaker 2: and you don't get to go in until you get
1:55
Speaker 2: the keys. Then on that day, slide the kid in
2:01
Speaker 2: the doorknob and turn it and you walk in and
2:05
Speaker 2: here's your new property. But to your great surprise, as
2:11
Speaker 2: you walk through that property, you don't find a dead body.
2:19
Speaker 2: You find three, and they're all skeletons. I'm Joseph Scott
2:25
Speaker 2: Morgan and this is bodybags. Hey, brother Dave. Good to
2:34
Speaker 2: see you again. You know, real quick, before you get started,
2:37
Speaker 2: I wanted to send a quick shout out to a
2:41
Speaker 2: buddy of mine, but specifically his mother, and her name
2:48
Speaker 2: is actually Betty George, and Betty has been listening to
2:55
Speaker 2: us for a long long time, as a matter of fact,
2:58
Speaker 2: ever since we started, and I just wanted to send
3:02
Speaker 2: your best wishes. Hope you're doing well, Betty, and uh
3:05
Speaker 2: make sure that you keep Mitchell in line. I know
3:08
Speaker 2: that we all have our crosses in life, and Mitchell
3:10
Speaker 2: is certainly one you must bear, but keep him, keep
3:13
Speaker 2: him in line. But we're going to send this greeting
3:16
Speaker 2: out to Betty right now, so I hope you're doing well,
3:18
Speaker 2: my friend.
3:19
Speaker 1: I love that name Betty any great. It reminds me
3:22
Speaker 1: of like World War Two. It's not saying that year
3:25
Speaker 1: old Betty, but it is a World War two name
3:28
Speaker 1: it is. I mean think it's like Betty Spaghetti from
3:30
Speaker 1: the League of their Own, Betty rival from Barney.
3:32
Speaker 2: And you know, anyway, hey, my mother, my mother's name
3:36
Speaker 2: is Louise. And you know you don't hear those those
3:38
Speaker 2: really cool names like.
3:39
Speaker 1: That Beatty and Louise, oh Elman, Louise, Yeahaddy and Wilma. Yeah.
3:44
Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately people do things now like name their children
3:48
Speaker 2: after salads, so you know, and I I.
3:51
Speaker 1: Don't know, No, they just make it up, kid.
3:53
Speaker 2: You know.
3:54
Speaker 1: People are sitting in there going, okay, how many letters
3:56
Speaker 1: in the alphabet.
3:57
Speaker 2: And let's see, yeah, let's see I created Yeah.
4:00
Speaker 1: Look, man, lom Angelo is not sorry, it's not a name.
4:05
Speaker 1: There you go, holy free holies, but here is a name.
4:08
Speaker 1: Joe Jack Skellington. When I started seeing this story, I
4:12
Speaker 1: thought of nightmare before Christmas. I thought of the little skeletons,
4:15
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and I thought, Okay, this is gonna
4:18
Speaker 1: be one of those stories where they tell the whole
4:20
Speaker 1: thing and then you find out that the skeletons were fake,
4:22
Speaker 1: they were left over from Halloween something like that. No, no, no,
4:26
Speaker 1: this is a sad story on so many levels, because, hey,
4:32
Speaker 1: this is a foreclosed home, meaning somebody lost this home.
4:36
Speaker 1: Somebody bought this home, had big dreams about what they
4:40
Speaker 1: were going to do with this home, and then something
4:41
Speaker 1: happened along the way that caused them to miss enough
4:44
Speaker 1: payments that the mortgage company foreclosed on them. It didn't
4:51
Speaker 1: happen back in two thousand and seven, eight nine, ten,
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Speaker 1: when all the criminal activity was going on and thousands
4:57
Speaker 1: of Americans were foreclosed on illegally. We're not talking about then.
5:02
Speaker 1: We're talking about in the recent past. This home was
5:05
Speaker 1: originally bought in twenty nineteen. Not originally, It was bought
5:08
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen for the last time, and the family
5:11
Speaker 1: that bought it lost it. The home was foreclosed. The
5:17
Speaker 1: names that we're dealing with here, because you can find
5:20
Speaker 1: all this in public records. You know who bought the
5:22
Speaker 1: home last you know, you can go back through everything.
5:25
Speaker 1: I remember doing this on a couple other stories where
5:29
Speaker 1: the story that we were being told didn't match up
5:32
Speaker 1: with facts, and you start looking at public records and
5:35
Speaker 1: you find out pretty quickly that a family, Paul and
5:40
Speaker 1: Sally Ann Cash, bought this home. It's at seven Standwich
5:45
Speaker 1: Lane in Burlington, Connecticut. And you know how I got
5:49
Speaker 1: this so wrong? Because I did Burlington Vermont, That's what
5:53
Speaker 1: I was thinking. I wasn't thinking Burlington, Connecticut. And so
5:57
Speaker 1: I wrote down a bunch of stuff on this and
5:58
Speaker 1: started looking at Vermont, and I couldn't find anything in
6:01
Speaker 1: public records. And that's why Burlington, Connecticut. This is a
6:06
Speaker 1: beautiful home, Joe. I don't know if you looked at
6:08
Speaker 1: the pictures. Sits off the road a little bit, and
6:11
Speaker 1: sadly the cases lost the home to foreclosure and it
6:15
Speaker 1: was part of an auction. And in this auction, buyers
6:20
Speaker 1: prospective buyers were not allowed to go inside. They were
6:24
Speaker 1: able to get all the public documents, you know that
6:26
Speaker 1: the home had been lived in recently. They get power
6:30
Speaker 1: records and all those things. But you can't go in
6:32
Speaker 1: aside and look and see. You know, you can get
6:35
Speaker 1: appraisal values and things like that, so it's not like
6:38
Speaker 1: you're going in blindfolded. But in this particular case, Joseph
6:42
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, blindfolds would have come in. Handy dude wins
6:47
Speaker 1: this thing at auction, bought it for about half of
6:51
Speaker 1: what it was worth, and he goes, I'm to be
6:57
Speaker 1: honest with you, man, I thought for sure some body
7:01
Speaker 1: the auctioneer, somebody would have walked into this home. I mean,
7:05
Speaker 1: somebody somewhere before they sold this home at auction would
7:10
Speaker 1: have gone in to just make sure you know that
7:15
Speaker 1: this didn't happen. But the new home buyer gets the
7:19
Speaker 1: keys to his house that he bought at auction, and
7:22
Speaker 1: he shows up there to check out this investment property
7:25
Speaker 1: and he calls a highway patrol because he finds skeletons
7:29
Speaker 1: in the house. Three of them, Joe, Three human skeletons,
7:34
Speaker 1: not fake, just skeletons. Now, I don't know, and I
7:39
Speaker 1: need you to help me understand this. When you walk
7:42
Speaker 1: in and see skeletons or do they still have like hair?
7:46
Speaker 1: Do they like sitting in their clothes? What are because
7:50
Speaker 1: in my mind I'm picturing I'm picturing three people sitting
7:54
Speaker 1: on the floor Indian style playing cards and carbon monoxide
7:59
Speaker 1: gets them or something, you know, and they die and
8:02
Speaker 1: when the guy shows up there, they are still in
8:05
Speaker 1: their clothing. Is that what we're talking about.
8:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to know. A lot of it is
8:10
Speaker 2: going to be deepending, as we've often said, relative to
8:13
Speaker 2: decomposition on ambient environmental temperature, exposure to the elements. And
8:22
Speaker 2: you say, well, they're in a house, Well, you don't
8:24
Speaker 2: know what the status of the house is. Keep in mind,
8:27
Speaker 2: this is a house that if you were potential buyer,
8:31
Speaker 2: which I got a lot of questions that would be
8:34
Speaker 2: directed at the State of Connecticut about this, because it
8:36
Speaker 2: seems to be there could be some liability here relative
8:40
Speaker 2: to what you're exposing potential buyers too.
8:44
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, dude, I've actually got some interesting stuff
8:46
Speaker 1: to share with you about this.
8:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm shocked. I can I tell you a quick
8:50
Speaker 2: little aside, A lot of skeleton real quick that.
8:55
Speaker 1: From this man.
8:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, you probably will.
8:57
Speaker 1: I still do.
8:57
Speaker 2: But it's got a kind of an interesting, interesting little
9:00
Speaker 2: hook at the end. I had a lady that was
9:04
Speaker 2: found by homeless people and a home that they broke
9:10
Speaker 2: into to try to get shelter, and when they broke
9:13
Speaker 2: into it, there was this foul odor and it was
9:16
Speaker 2: in a rather decent neighborhood in Atlanta, And they walked
9:21
Speaker 2: through the house and in the back of the house
9:24
Speaker 2: there was a bathtub. And this is the stuff out
9:27
Speaker 2: of of Silence and Lambs. There's that one scene where
9:32
Speaker 2: Foster's character walks into that one room down in the
9:35
Speaker 2: basement and there's body in a bathtub. That's what this
9:39
Speaker 2: looked like. Literally, this lady had essentially liquefied in the bathtub,
9:45
Speaker 2: and they ran out and flagged down an Atlanta police officer.
9:49
Speaker 2: I wound up going out there and had to stick
9:55
Speaker 2: my hands into this tub. I had put on a
9:58
Speaker 2: tiebeck suit, And of course you're trying to be careful
10:01
Speaker 2: because you don't know how she died. She died in
10:04
Speaker 2: a bathtub full of water. But the skin, a good
10:08
Speaker 2: a goodly portioned skin, have kind of liquefied, pulled away
10:12
Speaker 2: from the skeleton and was sitting in the bottom of
10:17
Speaker 2: the bathtub along with the bones. Some of the stuff
10:19
Speaker 2: had become disarticulated. There were fly husk everywhere. You can
10:23
Speaker 2: tell just multi generations of insects that come through here
10:27
Speaker 2: and at the time, I don't know what it was
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Speaker 2: about the house and about it. Really it was really
10:33
Speaker 2: off putting for me. I know, you say, wow, that's
10:35
Speaker 2: a shock.
10:36
Speaker 1: Well, all I was thinking, is that what it took.
10:39
Speaker 1: It had to go this far to a lady taking
10:42
Speaker 1: a bath and dies and nobody finds the generations of
10:46
Speaker 1: flies telling stories to their grandchildren, flies about When I
10:50
Speaker 1: first found this person taking a.
10:52
Speaker 2: Bath, it was it was something and I don't know
10:57
Speaker 2: if I was distracted to the point where I didn't
10:59
Speaker 2: And this is key where I didn't pay as good
11:02
Speaker 2: of attention at the scene as I should have. I
11:04
Speaker 2: had an idea of who she might be, but because
11:09
Speaker 2: of bills that were found around the house, you know
11:12
Speaker 2: when people still got bills in the mail, and you know,
11:15
Speaker 2: sifting through her mail and everything, and didn't didn't do
11:20
Speaker 2: as thorough a job as I should have, maybe at
11:22
Speaker 2: that particular time to try to locate it. Went back
11:25
Speaker 2: out like several days later with one of my colleagues
11:29
Speaker 2: and went into her bedroom and I'm still digging, you know,
11:33
Speaker 2: to try to find things, Dave. I went her both
11:37
Speaker 2: of her bedside tables. You couldn't get the drawers completely open.
11:42
Speaker 2: And if I can't open a drawer, it bugs me.
11:44
Speaker 2: And so I pulled and pulled. The first one finally
11:47
Speaker 2: pops open. And when I did, when I did pop
11:52
Speaker 2: that open, there was twenty thousand dollars in cash in
11:55
Speaker 2: the bottom of the drawer. It was kind of a
11:57
Speaker 2: recessed bottom. And guess what went to the other one
12:02
Speaker 2: went to the other one? The same thing happened again.
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Speaker 1: I can just hear you now, Hey, buddy, I unstuck
12:08
Speaker 1: the drawer. Find anything?
12:09
Speaker 2: No, well, I was, yeah, well, just trust me. The
12:14
Speaker 2: little devil for a second popped up on on my shoulder.
12:18
Speaker 2: The angel won. We went back catalog all of this cash,
12:23
Speaker 2: with the serial numbers and everything, and this has got
12:26
Speaker 2: kind of a cool, a cool wrap around. I couldn't
12:31
Speaker 2: find her family for the longest and finally located a
12:34
Speaker 2: niece that was living in Ohio, and I think this
12:39
Speaker 2: was providential. Her niece when we contacted her and she said, yeah,
12:44
Speaker 2: I haven't talked to my auntie in a long long time.
12:47
Speaker 2: We used to be very very close, and you know,
12:50
Speaker 2: you're the only living relative you know, and we have
12:53
Speaker 2: her personal property here and she said, what is it?
12:57
Speaker 2: I said, well, the home is here, that's going to
12:59
Speaker 2: have to through probate and everything else. I said, there's cash,
13:04
Speaker 2: and I said, it's a rather large sum of cash.
13:06
Speaker 2: We don't like having it around here because we had
13:08
Speaker 2: it back in our you know, in our safe and
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Speaker 2: Dave he her son. This lady didn't have any insurance
13:15
Speaker 2: and her son needed leg surgery that required thirty five
13:18
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and she got that cash and the kid
13:23
Speaker 2: got that got that surgery done.
13:24
Speaker 1: Wow.
13:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that's why, you know, I think back
13:27
Speaker 2: to that. You know, if you're tenacious as and it's
13:30
Speaker 2: not all about you know, trying to find a killer
13:32
Speaker 2: or something like that, as an investigator, you never know
13:35
Speaker 2: what road it's going to lead you down in that
13:36
Speaker 2: particular case. So I'm thinking about these people that died
13:40
Speaker 2: in this house. As an investigator, what was there there
13:44
Speaker 2: you know, that you could dig through and try to find. Now,
13:47
Speaker 2: obviously you don't have bodies and bathtubs and this sort
13:50
Speaker 2: of thing, but they would have encountered these generational groupings
13:55
Speaker 2: of flies. It might not be as foul as this
13:59
Speaker 2: lady's house because you've moved to the point where they're
14:02
Speaker 2: actually identifying skeletal remains. And it's not that skeletal remains
14:06
Speaker 2: don't have a foul oader, because they do, but it's
14:08
Speaker 2: not as prolific. Say, for instance, if you have large
14:11
Speaker 2: bloated bodies that are there and you catch them in
14:14
Speaker 2: that midpoint.
14:15
Speaker 1: Wait, wait a minute, but a skeleton, skeletal remains after
14:19
Speaker 1: and let's just go to the extreme ere there's no,
14:21
Speaker 1: there's no soft tissue. There's still going to be no.
14:24
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I can't. Let's still say that because this
14:27
Speaker 2: is this is interesting. We've never talked about this on
14:29
Speaker 2: body backs. You can actually find desiccated tissue on the
14:35
Speaker 2: surface of skeletal remains. And look, I'm going to be
14:39
Speaker 2: very blunt here, and this is, you know, a bit disgusting,
14:42
Speaker 2: but it's it's body backs, right. So the tissue that
14:45
Speaker 2: you see many times is it almost looks like really
14:49
Speaker 2: really thin, translucent beef jerky and the bones, the bones
14:54
Speaker 2: themselves still have this kind of fatty grease on them.
14:57
Speaker 2: So it's not like if you ever think about some
15:00
Speaker 2: movie that's taking place out in the desert and you
15:02
Speaker 2: see bleached bones. Brother, it ain't like that. That's not
15:06
Speaker 2: what you get when you get getting an interior skele
15:12
Speaker 2: to remain. Unless they have been buried in a spot
15:15
Speaker 2: within an interior location for a protracted period of time,
15:19
Speaker 2: you're still gonna have that kind of greasy residue that's there.
15:22
Speaker 1: I'm guessing there's not a lot of obesity that runs
15:26
Speaker 1: in legal death investigators, you know, because y'all couldn't eat
15:29
Speaker 1: half the time. Let me ask you something. Yeah, we
15:33
Speaker 1: can get used to anything, but some of the things
15:36
Speaker 1: you've told me that you've said in conversations later on,
15:41
Speaker 1: I've gone, dude, that's serious, decentsitive, you know. But all right,
15:46
Speaker 1: in the case of Suvanne Morpheu, you remember when her
15:49
Speaker 1: body was found that her husband is Yeah, Barry Morphew
15:55
Speaker 1: has been accused, arrested in charge in her murder. But
15:58
Speaker 1: do you remember when they found her bones, Her skeleton
16:00
Speaker 1: remains had been bleached. They were found out in an
16:06
Speaker 1: area where I still want to know what all happened there,
16:09
Speaker 1: because I was thinking about the skeleton remains here found
16:12
Speaker 1: inside this house, this were closed on home, and how
16:16
Speaker 1: long it takes, you know, to get to a certain
16:19
Speaker 1: point where they would be skeletonized, Because these are skeletal
16:23
Speaker 1: remains inside a home, whereas Suzanne morpheus remains were found
16:26
Speaker 1: out in the open when they when they were actually found,
16:31
Speaker 1: but they were there was no flesh at all. They
16:35
Speaker 1: were if I remember they were, it seemed like they
16:38
Speaker 1: had been cleaned, you know.
16:40
Speaker 2: And that Yeah, I love I love the fact that
16:42
Speaker 2: you made that not bleach but bleached like an action word.
16:47
Speaker 2: And remember bleach had come up in that case. You
16:50
Speaker 2: remember bleach at the hotel room. Yeah, as that as
16:56
Speaker 2: that case begins to develop, I'm going to be very curious.
16:59
Speaker 2: I'm going to be watching that.
17:01
Speaker 1: We're going to be visit that one.
17:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, we will. We will the body bags, we certainly will.
17:05
Speaker 2: But you know, in the meantime, with our case up
17:09
Speaker 2: in Connecticut, uh, we've got three human remains, all contained
17:14
Speaker 2: in the same space that this family would have had
17:16
Speaker 2: access to. Right. The question is they're skeletons now, but
17:23
Speaker 2: what brought them to their end?
17:37
Speaker 1: Dave?
17:37
Speaker 2: You know that table I was telling you about that,
17:39
Speaker 2: that English pub table. I've wanted to fix it for
17:45
Speaker 2: so long, I really have, but Kim will not let
17:48
Speaker 2: me come near it with a drill or screwdriver. It's
17:53
Speaker 2: it's kind of wobbly, and both of us are terrified
17:57
Speaker 2: that we're going to do something to it too. But
17:59
Speaker 2: I'm terrified that if we don't shore this thing up
18:03
Speaker 2: sooner than later, No and Lexi are not gonna be
18:07
Speaker 2: able to inherit the scene, it's just gonna be a
18:09
Speaker 2: pile of rubble. And so you know, I've got to
18:11
Speaker 2: I've got to do something about this. Uh can you
18:14
Speaker 2: imagine if bodies are inside of this house, what else
18:20
Speaker 2: is there? You know? And I've been in homes that
18:24
Speaker 2: have been abandoned with bodies in them, and you walk
18:27
Speaker 2: through every room and it is just your knee deep
18:31
Speaker 2: in filth, paper, furniture that is unattended things. Uh, don't
18:38
Speaker 2: even open the refrigerator, that kind of thing, because it's
18:41
Speaker 2: it's a horror show in and of itself. Kind of
18:45
Speaker 2: amazing things here. When you think about this as a
18:48
Speaker 2: death investigation, because it is a death investigation, all you
18:51
Speaker 2: know is that you've got three dead people.
18:54
Speaker 1: And by the way, just because you know who the
18:58
Speaker 1: owner's had been before the else was foreclothes on, you
19:01
Speaker 1: can't assume. You know. One thing that you've taught me, Joe,
19:06
Speaker 1: is that every death is a homicide until proven differently.
19:11
Speaker 1: And I wish more of of our friends that cover
19:15
Speaker 1: crime would approach such stories like this in that same vein,
19:20
Speaker 1: we would not have a lot of the discussions like
19:23
Speaker 1: with Nolan Wells right now if it had been approached
19:26
Speaker 1: as a homicide until proven differently, you know, there's been
19:28
Speaker 1: a lot less discussion. Yeah, oh gosh, yes. But in
19:32
Speaker 1: this case, four forty six pm. Okay, the Highway patrol
19:37
Speaker 1: gets called and found I found skeletons in the house.
19:40
Speaker 1: I just bought. This happened in June, Okay, just eight
19:45
Speaker 1: weeks ago. Wow. Yeah, So when Highway pril gets there
19:52
Speaker 1: or the investigation begins and they find no signs of
19:56
Speaker 1: forest entry, no signs of foul play, the cause and
20:01
Speaker 1: manner of death has not been determined yet. It's right
20:05
Speaker 1: now pending further investigation, which I'm a little curious as
20:09
Speaker 1: to how you would go about this. But before you
20:12
Speaker 1: dig into the buyer of the house, his name is
20:15
Speaker 1: Edward Marshawn of Newington, Connecticut, God blessing. His name has
20:19
Speaker 1: been kind of kept off to the side in a
20:21
Speaker 1: lot of places, but it is popping up now. And
20:23
Speaker 1: the reason I'm saying is because, look, man, this guy
20:27
Speaker 1: bought the home, fair and square. It was an as
20:29
Speaker 1: is auction. You buy it and you hope it doesn't
20:32
Speaker 1: fall down around you kind of thing, right, But bidding
20:36
Speaker 1: was he bought it for over a half million dollars,
20:39
Speaker 1: Joe five hundred and twenty five thousand dollars.
20:42
Speaker 2: And wait, Hayle, let me go back just for a second,
20:44
Speaker 2: because he bought it for half of the estimated value.
20:48
Speaker 1: Correct about eight hundred thousand I think eight nine hundred
20:52
Speaker 1: thousand was.
20:53
Speaker 2: I'm just saying in this region of the country, I've
20:55
Speaker 2: got friends that live up in that area, and yeah,
20:58
Speaker 2: prices on things and for us down here, you know,
21:01
Speaker 2: out here where we live, those numbers are mind blowing.
21:05
Speaker 2: And he's bought you know, just just half a mill.
21:09
Speaker 1: It's not a castle.
21:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
21:11
Speaker 1: But it's nice. It's a nice home, Yeah it is.
21:13
Speaker 2: It is.
21:14
Speaker 1: But he did buy it at a foreclosure auction four
21:17
Speaker 1: five hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. It was sold
21:21
Speaker 1: as is. Prospective buyers were not allowed to inspect the
21:24
Speaker 1: interior before bidding. The home was purchased on June sixth Okay,
21:30
Speaker 1: now it's over a week later when he actually has
21:33
Speaker 1: a chance to go and take a look at his
21:34
Speaker 1: new acquisition. Once he gets there and opens the door
21:39
Speaker 1: and finds the skeletons and calls the troopers immediately, the
21:46
Speaker 1: police take over. Got to figure out what happened. You know,
21:50
Speaker 1: you can't just say, well, these are the skeletons of
21:52
Speaker 1: the people who used to live here, because you can't
21:53
Speaker 1: even assume that you don't know where they are. I
21:57
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier who the people were that owned it, Sally
21:59
Speaker 1: and Cash and her husband Paul. They have a son
22:03
Speaker 1: named Brian Cash. He's twenty two, So they were living
22:07
Speaker 1: in the home prior to it being foreclosed. But you know,
22:12
Speaker 1: foreclosure takes time. It doesn't happen like being evicted from
22:16
Speaker 1: a house. It takes longer than that. It takes time
22:18
Speaker 1: to go through the entire process, takes time to get
22:21
Speaker 1: it into a bidding where it can be sold at auction.
22:25
Speaker 1: So you're usually dealing with a year or two years
22:27
Speaker 1: down the road from the time a house is foreclosed on.
22:30
Speaker 1: Not always, but it can. So where do police start, Joe,
22:34
Speaker 1: When where do you start with the investigation. I found
22:36
Speaker 1: skeletons in this new property I just bought. It looks
22:42
Speaker 1: like they were living here and died. That's what it
22:44
Speaker 1: looks like.
22:45
Speaker 2: Excellent question. And I'm going to start back where relative
22:49
Speaker 2: to what the court told the prospective buyers, I'm going
22:54
Speaker 2: to inspect the outside of the house. As a matter
22:57
Speaker 2: of fact, if you walk in, like with the the
23:02
Speaker 2: state troopers that walked in, and they they start they
23:06
Speaker 2: initiate this this uh, for these first steps in the investigation,
23:12
Speaker 2: we ain't touching nothing. We're not a matter of fact,
23:15
Speaker 2: we're going to back out and we're gonna go ahead
23:17
Speaker 2: and get a warrant. At this point in time, we're
23:19
Speaker 2: gonna wait on the warrant. We're either gonna have a
23:21
Speaker 2: judge that's that's available or match straight that can issue
23:25
Speaker 2: a warrant. I'm gonna go to the county prosecutor's office
23:28
Speaker 2: or state state, a g whoever they're dealing with, and
23:32
Speaker 2: I want a search warrant issued. And the problem cause
23:36
Speaker 2: relative to this is three deceased individuals. All right, it's
23:41
Speaker 2: and it's not even Look if we if we go
23:43
Speaker 2: with this idea that every death is a homicide until
23:46
Speaker 2: proven otherwise, it's even if this was in singular form
23:51
Speaker 2: and you know, one one skeletal remain the question I
23:57
Speaker 2: always have when their skeletal remains is how did they how?
24:04
Speaker 2: How has somebody been ignored this long from a scientific
24:09
Speaker 2: perspective where their bodies can be rendered down to this point,
24:16
Speaker 2: and that rendering you don't know what the source of
24:19
Speaker 2: this rendering is. Is it a natural occurrence or is
24:22
Speaker 2: this something that was done at the hands of some
24:24
Speaker 2: kind of maniac? You say, Morgan, you gotta be kidding me.
24:28
Speaker 2: You would actually consider that? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, I'm
24:32
Speaker 2: gonna consider it. All the stuff that Brother Dave and
24:34
Speaker 2: I cover on the show. You don't think I'm going
24:36
Speaker 2: to consider that. Yeah, I'm going to consider it. I'm
24:39
Speaker 2: going to look at these cases one by one assuming
24:42
Speaker 2: that this is death at the hands of another. So
24:45
Speaker 2: when you back out of this house and you wait
24:47
Speaker 2: for that search warrant, I'm going to spend my time
24:50
Speaker 2: doing external investigations or external observations. You know, when you
24:56
Speaker 2: do a search warrant and this is this is kind
24:59
Speaker 2: of fascinating for folks that don't understand. You have to
25:01
Speaker 2: be very specific on search warrant, Like you can't just
25:04
Speaker 2: say I want to search warrant for number eighteen ELM Street.
25:08
Speaker 2: All right, I want to search for warrant for number
25:11
Speaker 2: eighteen Elm Street, and these are the locations in the
25:13
Speaker 2: house that we're going to search, and you have to
25:16
Speaker 2: list those and what your parents looking for and what
25:20
Speaker 2: you're looking for. Now you can kind of treat this
25:23
Speaker 2: a bit broadly. I think if you're gonna do a
25:26
Speaker 2: search warrant here and it takes time and it's weird,
25:30
Speaker 2: you'll you'll see the old the old folks that have
25:33
Speaker 2: been doing this for a while, they'll be very patient.
25:36
Speaker 2: They might have one guy say, hey, guys, y'all want
25:38
Speaker 2: some coffee. Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah, as a matter
25:41
Speaker 2: of fact, let me buy this around. Here's a couple
25:43
Speaker 2: of bucks. Go buy some coffee. And then you've got
25:46
Speaker 2: the new people that are out there, and they're like,
25:48
Speaker 2: they're like, why can't we go in? We don't understand.
25:51
Speaker 2: Why can't we go on? You know, don't you understand?
25:53
Speaker 2: There's dead bodies in there right there are and they're
25:57
Speaker 2: not going to rise from the dead. They are in there,
26:00
Speaker 2: all right, So it's gonna be okay. You'll have plenty
26:03
Speaker 2: of work to do when it gets here. Enjoy this
26:05
Speaker 2: respite for a moment. As a matter of fact, go
26:07
Speaker 2: and make sure that you got all your equipment ready
26:09
Speaker 2: and everything you're gonna need to process the scene. That's
26:12
Speaker 2: what you need to be occupied and get your mind
26:14
Speaker 2: right before you go in, because one of the other
26:16
Speaker 2: things that you're going to do outside in a case
26:19
Speaker 2: this and it would be complex, You're gonna have to
26:23
Speaker 2: come up with a plant because you don't want to
26:25
Speaker 2: just walk through the door and say, Okay, guys, you
26:28
Speaker 2: know here, take some photos and you know we're gonna
26:31
Speaker 2: pull a few measurements and out we go. No, Probably
26:33
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make sure the
26:35
Speaker 2: EMS people are there from the State Medical Examiner. Connecticut
26:38
Speaker 2: has a state Emmy's office. I'm going to make sure
26:40
Speaker 2: their reps are there. And if I already know that
26:44
Speaker 2: I'm talking about skeletal remains, you know what I might do.
26:47
Speaker 2: I might go ahead and call the state medically the
26:49
Speaker 2: State Forensic Anthropologist. And it doesn't have to be a
26:54
Speaker 2: very body to get them involved, because there are certain
26:57
Speaker 2: skeletal elements this is kind of cool that I might
27:01
Speaker 2: not be paying attention for that. These people have been
27:03
Speaker 2: trained for that. If they walk up on a body
27:06
Speaker 2: in the.
27:07
Speaker 1: Middle of a floor.
27:08
Speaker 2: They can visualize a body at the scene and then say, wait,
27:14
Speaker 2: something's missing. We're missing an element here. You guys go
27:18
Speaker 2: this way, you guys go that way, look and see
27:20
Speaker 2: if you can find it, and they'll, you know, forensic
27:23
Speaker 2: anthropologists will actually start looking for things like scat from animals,
27:30
Speaker 2: raccoon feces, roted feces, anything that they can get an
27:37
Speaker 2: indication where something may have been taken and drug back
27:39
Speaker 2: to a burrow. I've worked cases involving forensic anthropologists where
27:45
Speaker 2: there's been a bird nest and there was actually human
27:48
Speaker 2: hair in the bird nest that the birds had come by,
27:52
Speaker 2: grabbed hair off of the dead body and flown to
27:54
Speaker 2: a bird's nest and literally feathered their nest with it.
27:58
Speaker 2: So yet, you don't want to walk into a situation
28:00
Speaker 2: so potentially complex here that you don't know whether you're
28:05
Speaker 2: coming or going at this point in time. And so
28:08
Speaker 2: when you go in, you're going to break this down
28:10
Speaker 2: into teams. And because it can get technically, it can
28:14
Speaker 2: get very overwhelming. If you've got just a single investigator
28:22
Speaker 2: that works each one of these bodies, how can you
28:25
Speaker 2: keep track of it? Well, if we've got a set
28:28
Speaker 2: of three. My preference for three is a police investigator,
28:33
Speaker 2: an EMMY investigator, and a photographer. Okay, three people, three teams.
28:40
Speaker 2: Each of you get a body, and each person simultaneously
28:44
Speaker 2: starts processing each one of those bodies. We do that
28:47
Speaker 2: with mass homicides. You don't walk into a mass homicide
28:51
Speaker 2: like the Buckhead shooting all those years ago. I have
28:53
Speaker 2: reverenced it in the past, Columbine. You don't walk into
28:57
Speaker 2: an event like that and you've got one person working
29:02
Speaker 2: all of the bodies because you get distracted. You have
29:06
Speaker 2: to remain focused. And when you're talking about skeletal elements,
29:10
Speaker 2: it's like somebody many times has taken a jigsaw puzzle
29:13
Speaker 2: and just like that and they've thrown everything all over
29:15
Speaker 2: the place. You know, the ideal would be to have
29:19
Speaker 2: a body that is still contained in the clothing and
29:23
Speaker 2: nothing has been touched. But of course we know it
29:26
Speaker 2: ain't a perfect world, particularly when the living are trying
29:30
Speaker 2: to assess the dead. Brother Dave, you know, one of
29:45
Speaker 2: my biggest fears anytime I work a skeletal remain case
29:50
Speaker 2: is I've left something behind. And it's one thing to
29:57
Speaker 2: be able to grab a group of coworkers at a
30:01
Speaker 2: scene and you take a body and you place a
30:02
Speaker 2: body into a body bag. You zip the body up, okay,
30:07
Speaker 2: and everybody grabs a handle and you go and you
30:10
Speaker 2: place some on the gurney. Gurney goes in the back
30:12
Speaker 2: of the transport and off you go with skeletal remains.
30:18
Speaker 2: It ain't that simple, brother, You just you know, because
30:22
Speaker 2: you know you've got over two hundred bones in the
30:25
Speaker 2: human body, right, All you have to do is look
30:28
Speaker 2: back at Sarah Connor and she said that interminator. You
30:32
Speaker 2: look back at that and you think about, you know,
30:35
Speaker 2: all of the remains that could potentially be missing, and
30:39
Speaker 2: it's amazing that if it could be just one little element,
30:43
Speaker 2: skeletal element, that's going to tell the truth, particularly if
30:46
Speaker 2: you're talking about something where a skull, for instance, has
30:50
Speaker 2: been fragmented and you're missing remember I talked about jigsaw puzzle.
30:54
Speaker 2: You're missing that one key piece that if you're trying
30:57
Speaker 2: to put this thing back together, it can be problematic
31:00
Speaker 2: if you're missing.
31:01
Speaker 1: It right now. In this particular case, there is an
31:05
Speaker 1: idea of who it could be. So rather than coming
31:09
Speaker 1: on a tent out in the middle of the woods
31:11
Speaker 1: with no documentation of anybody anywhere and finding three skeletons
31:16
Speaker 1: in this house. We have a house that was owned
31:19
Speaker 1: by a family, and Paul and Sally and Cash bought
31:24
Speaker 1: the home in twenty nineteen. It's foreclosed on it. By
31:26
Speaker 1: the way, I wanted to get the date straight here.
31:28
Speaker 1: The home was foreclosed on August a year ago, and
31:33
Speaker 1: they already moved it up to sell it in June,
31:35
Speaker 1: so it was no time between for it took time
31:38
Speaker 1: to get to the foreclosure. But boy, once they did, boom,
31:41
Speaker 1: you're gone and it was sold. Now that's probably I'm guessing, Joe,
31:46
Speaker 1: where you would wisely start in trying to identify who
31:50
Speaker 1: these skeletons are. Would you do a parallel investigation, start
31:54
Speaker 1: with the skeletons and the family that you know lived here,
31:58
Speaker 1: because we did have a mom, d and an adult's
32:00
Speaker 1: son that were all coabitating. They were living in the zone. Yeah,
32:03
Speaker 1: and then start another blind one. Or do we go
32:08
Speaker 1: with what appears to be obvious for the sake of
32:11
Speaker 1: time and money, because you don't know how they died.
32:16
Speaker 1: You don't know if somebody came and killed them in
32:19
Speaker 1: the middle of the night and left. We don't know
32:22
Speaker 1: if there's a murderer on the loose, or if you
32:25
Speaker 1: don't know anything, so you got to identify who it
32:28
Speaker 1: is first? How do you go about doing that?
32:30
Speaker 2: Who starts, Yeah, this is a dangerous This is kind
32:32
Speaker 2: of a dangerous road to be on because you know,
32:34
Speaker 2: we've talked about levels of identification before, and you know me,
32:39
Speaker 2: I would rather have an unidentified body than to have
32:42
Speaker 2: a presumptively identified body. Because you're really sticking your neck
32:47
Speaker 2: out when you.
32:48
Speaker 1: Say, by the way, yeah, I'm so glad you just
32:51
Speaker 1: said that, because you know, they have identified two but
32:53
Speaker 1: not the third. And I'm going to tell you that
32:57
Speaker 1: they won't go on that limb Joe, this stam, they
33:00
Speaker 1: will not. I tried, like, come on, just tell me.
33:04
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, yeah, you want, you want that information,
33:07
Speaker 2: But for that moment, that moment of peace that you
33:11
Speaker 2: might receive by getting some kind of governmental rubber rubber
33:14
Speaker 2: stamp and say yeah, presumptively it's this person, It's that
33:19
Speaker 2: same thing that's going to happen six months later when
33:21
Speaker 2: that individual that you have identified is walking through the
33:25
Speaker 2: local routes or safeways or publics buying groceries, and you know,
33:30
Speaker 2: can you imagine that you know, and there's a case
33:33
Speaker 2: that still haunts me this day. I had a lady
33:35
Speaker 2: that was was partially consumed by her dogs that lived
33:38
Speaker 2: with her, and we had to presumptively identify her. She
33:41
Speaker 2: had no living relatives we could do DNA on her,
33:44
Speaker 2: and so we did a presumptive I mean her everything
33:48
Speaker 2: her top, the top of her torso was completely gone,
33:51
Speaker 2: with the exception of the remainder of her skull. The
33:55
Speaker 2: lower torso was still there. We could determine that this
33:58
Speaker 2: was an African American female now, but everything else was gone.
34:02
Speaker 1: What kind of dogs?
34:02
Speaker 2: Did you have a variety of MutS? A variety of MutS?
34:06
Speaker 2: And she was a dog mom. She had five and
34:09
Speaker 2: they were locked up in the house with her. I
34:11
Speaker 2: think it was six months down range. And you know,
34:13
Speaker 2: I still think back to that case today and it
34:17
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say it haunts me, but it's
34:19
Speaker 2: troubling because it was a presumptive ID. And I you know,
34:24
Speaker 2: kudos to the folks up in Connecticut that aren't just saying,
34:27
Speaker 2: you know blindly that this is this is this individual.
34:32
Speaker 2: I think my question to this point is how did
34:36
Speaker 2: you get the other two identified? Right now?
34:40
Speaker 1: Hey? Then I go back to the other story. Sure, please, Yeah,
34:43
Speaker 1: you said it haunts you that you know you did
34:45
Speaker 1: a presumptive identification on the woman. Yeah, because the dogs
34:49
Speaker 1: that was the identification wrong.
34:52
Speaker 2: No, it was to this point, it hasn't been wrong.
34:57
Speaker 1: That you had you had.
34:59
Speaker 2: I don't like leave loose ends. Uh okay, I guess
35:02
Speaker 2: well that sounded kind of sinister, didn't it.
35:04
Speaker 1: Well, No, yeah, I don't like to yeh. Wife Madonna
35:08
Speaker 1: used to say, you know, if anything ever happens to me, Dave,
35:11
Speaker 1: and they come in here and look at the books
35:12
Speaker 1: you have, you're done. But you did. We did have
35:16
Speaker 1: a story where there was an identification where parents were
35:22
Speaker 1: told their daughter was dead and other parents were told
35:25
Speaker 1: their daughter is alive, but it you know, intensive care
35:28
Speaker 1: or whatever, and ended up being wrong. They had the
35:31
Speaker 1: wrong identity because these I believe driver's license.
35:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, the college, the college female college volleyball team. It
35:39
Speaker 2: that case haunts me and I wasn't involved in it.
35:43
Speaker 2: And it's because the coroner in that jurisdiction used a
35:47
Speaker 2: driver's license in order to affect an ID. I never
35:51
Speaker 2: used government. Those are merely starting points. I love science, brother,
35:56
Speaker 2: and so if I can, if I can start with
35:57
Speaker 2: a driver's license. Cool, but I'm not going to be reliant.
36:00
Speaker 2: I've had too many cases involving fake IDs, and to
36:04
Speaker 2: this point, you might find, let's just say, with the
36:08
Speaker 2: unidentified skeleton in this particular case, we very well might have,
36:13
Speaker 2: we very well might have a state issued idea a
36:17
Speaker 2: driver's license. Okay, I'm not going to use that other
36:21
Speaker 2: than other than to merely start the investigation. I need
36:27
Speaker 2: something confirmatory. So with that said, here's what I would
36:31
Speaker 2: throw out there. We've got a mom and a son identified.
36:36
Speaker 1: Right right now, we do other three skeletons. We have
36:38
Speaker 1: Sally and Cash. She's fifty four and her son, Brian Cash,
36:43
Speaker 1: was twenty two. They were identified as two of the
36:46
Speaker 1: three skeletons found inside the home.
36:48
Speaker 2: Okay, well, this is if this son is his biological
36:54
Speaker 2: the unidentified skeleton. If he is, if there's familial connection
37:00
Speaker 2: to the Sun's remains that have already been identified, I'm
37:03
Speaker 2: wondering if they're going to do a DNA profile on
37:06
Speaker 2: the Sun and do a comparison to those unidentified remains
37:10
Speaker 2: that you have that might be paternal remains. And you know,
37:14
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about that and thinking about any of
37:17
Speaker 2: the other peripheral relatives that might still be around in
37:21
Speaker 2: that area. Does this other victim who they may have
37:25
Speaker 2: tentatively identified or they have an idea. Are they going
37:29
Speaker 2: out and seeking families or family members who they think
37:34
Speaker 2: it could be and going back and saying, we need
37:36
Speaker 2: to buck on the coastal swab on you. We're going
37:38
Speaker 2: to compare the DNA. I know that they could probably
37:41
Speaker 2: get DNA off the skeleton more than likely, and the
37:44
Speaker 2: skull is missing, that could go for the teeth, that
37:47
Speaker 2: could go for the petrosphe We've talked about extensively inside
37:50
Speaker 2: of the cranial vault. There's any number of locations that
37:54
Speaker 2: we could potentially go to to try to run this
37:58
Speaker 2: information down.
38:01
Speaker 1: In this particular instance where you have skeletons skeletonized remains,
38:08
Speaker 1: when they died comes into play here because the homeowners
38:15
Speaker 1: the home was foreclosed on. Okay, Now it let's just
38:20
Speaker 1: if the third skeleton ends up being Paul Cash, when
38:23
Speaker 1: did he die? When did Sally and die? They were
38:27
Speaker 1: the owners of the home, And if the homeowners were dead,
38:33
Speaker 1: then the action the foreclosure and the auction it determines
38:40
Speaker 1: on when they died. Okay, because they died before the auction. Obviously,
38:45
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't turn into a skeleton between June
38:48
Speaker 1: sixth and June fourteenth. I think we can assume that, right.
38:52
Speaker 1: We know that foreclosure began in August, but between August
38:59
Speaker 1: and June, and we're talking about Connecticut, So is it
39:04
Speaker 1: possible that human remains inside a dwelling could become skeletonized
39:10
Speaker 1: in that period of time.
39:12
Speaker 2: You would need a protracted period of time for them
39:14
Speaker 2: to be totally skeletonized. Okay, And this is a great
39:19
Speaker 2: point that you bring up to You'd be a stellar
39:21
Speaker 2: investigator because this is the way you're thinking. The idea
39:25
Speaker 2: is it's not so much about what what you have
39:31
Speaker 2: as much as it is how does what you have
39:33
Speaker 2: compare to everything else that you have. So if you're
39:36
Speaker 2: looking for comparing and contrasting the bodies that you have,
39:44
Speaker 2: are they the same level of decay? All right? There's
39:48
Speaker 2: a classic image, and I think it's I can't remember.
39:52
Speaker 2: I think it's in Spits and Fisher that I've talked
39:53
Speaker 2: about before, relative to a husband and wife that died
39:59
Speaker 2: at the same time, and the wife is in they
40:02
Speaker 2: had an attic bedroom, husband was downstairs in the lower bedroom,
40:08
Speaker 2: and the husband was relatively well preserved. The wife was
40:13
Speaker 2: almost completely skeletonized. It's because of the heat, and so
40:17
Speaker 2: wherever you were positioned in a house, and those photos,
40:22
Speaker 2: I still I can recall those images in my mind
40:24
Speaker 2: that I saw as a young investigator when I was
40:26
Speaker 2: reading years and years ago. That's always resonated with me.
40:30
Speaker 2: And so when you see the remains, where are they
40:34
Speaker 2: relative to one another? Was there anything in that house
40:39
Speaker 2: that could have impacted their rate of decay? Had air
40:43
Speaker 2: been running the entire time, had power been shut off?
40:46
Speaker 2: That's key because if you're talking about a foreclosure, somebody's
40:49
Speaker 2: not paying their Monday, I don't know that's kan Ed.
40:52
Speaker 2: Kan Ed is going to flip the switch or pull
40:54
Speaker 2: the plug and you're not going to have air running
40:58
Speaker 2: in there. So that's all factor. And then I want
41:04
Speaker 2: to know also if there's any kind of obvious weapons
41:10
Speaker 2: that are found around there, because you know, other than
41:15
Speaker 2: maybe a lightning strike, I have never worked a case,
41:22
Speaker 2: and even with a lightning strike, I think I had
41:24
Speaker 2: two people die as a result of a lightning strike,
41:27
Speaker 2: and of course that was outdoors, it wasn't indoors. How
41:29
Speaker 2: did three people simultaneously drop dead. Well, you mentioned one
41:33
Speaker 2: off the top of your head that was carme monoxide, right,
41:36
Speaker 2: And there are a number of cases out there. I
41:38
Speaker 2: worked case involving a family of six, I think or
41:41
Speaker 2: five in New Orleans where the vent fan was reversed
41:45
Speaker 2: on their heater and all of them died overnight. There
41:49
Speaker 2: have been other cases. There's a kind of an infamous
41:51
Speaker 2: one up in Milwaukee that happened many years ago that
41:55
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with. And that's something that can happen where
41:58
Speaker 2: you would have something that would packed people all together
42:01
Speaker 2: at one time in a particular space. But I also
42:04
Speaker 2: want to know about any kind of weaponry, and that's
42:06
Speaker 2: why it's so important that you get these skeleton remains
42:10
Speaker 2: intact as much as you can so that you can
42:13
Speaker 2: examine them, look at them and see if anything has
42:17
Speaker 2: affected them. I'm also going to want to know, aside
42:22
Speaker 2: from carbon monoxide, I want to check and see if
42:26
Speaker 2: the heating system functions correctly. I also want to assess
42:32
Speaker 2: if there are any kind of poisonous agents that are
42:35
Speaker 2: around there. Did they have where the table was the
42:39
Speaker 2: table set? You know, where everything is still laid on
42:43
Speaker 2: the table. Can imagine how spooky. This is you know
42:45
Speaker 2: what my favorite book is in the whole world is
42:47
Speaker 2: Great Expectations Charles Dickens and Missus Habersham. In that book,
42:54
Speaker 2: that character that Dickens writes about the table in her
42:58
Speaker 2: home is still set with her wedding celebration. She got abandoned,
43:04
Speaker 2: and she walks around a wedding dress and this is
43:07
Speaker 2: decades and decades later. There's a moldy, old wedding cake
43:10
Speaker 2: and all this sort of stuff. But when you go
43:12
Speaker 2: into a house and you see a table that set,
43:14
Speaker 2: it is kind of creepy. Dishes are in the scene.
43:16
Speaker 2: You can still see pots and pants on the stove
43:18
Speaker 2: where people are prepped meals and they just die and
43:21
Speaker 2: all that stuff kind of freezes in time.
43:23
Speaker 1: Wow.
43:24
Speaker 2: So all of that stuff has to be assessed at
43:26
Speaker 2: that moment.
43:27
Speaker 1: Actually, it's important here, Joe, because if it can be
43:30
Speaker 1: proved that the owners of the home, Paul and Sally
43:33
Speaker 1: in cash, if they died before the foreclosure, then the
43:39
Speaker 1: foreclosure is evacuate. It's it's it doesn't it's not smell
43:43
Speaker 1: and void. It's snull and void. So and what they've
43:45
Speaker 1: done already, Joe, Just so we're crystal clear on this.
43:48
Speaker 1: I want to make sure everybody knows everything on this
43:51
Speaker 1: property stopped because before it went to closing, once they
43:54
Speaker 1: found these skeletons and an investigation had to be done,
43:58
Speaker 1: the house did not sell, they did not close, and
44:01
Speaker 1: it's been kicked because now now we've got Sally Ann
44:05
Speaker 1: and the son identified pending identification of the husband, and
44:09
Speaker 1: then we got to find how did they die, which
44:12
Speaker 1: we still don't know. We don't have toxicology, we won't
44:15
Speaker 1: have anything. We don't know. We just know we have
44:16
Speaker 1: three skeletons of apparently the people who used to live
44:20
Speaker 1: in the home before it was foreclosed, but this foreclosure
44:25
Speaker 1: would be kicked out and the family, the heirs would
44:29
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to bring it up and sell it then.
44:32
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of reasons, financial reasons why
44:35
Speaker 1: they've got to figure out who these skeletons are and
44:39
Speaker 1: when and how they died. It's important, it is.
44:43
Speaker 2: And so with that said, it's going to be just
44:47
Speaker 2: from a forensic standpoint, friends, this is going to be
44:50
Speaker 2: a fascinating case to watch, because isn't it interesting? If
44:55
Speaker 2: this thing makes it into civil court, which there's a
44:59
Speaker 2: high probability it could we might actually see both a
45:03
Speaker 2: forensic pathologist and a forensic anthropologist testify in civil court,
45:08
Speaker 2: not criminal court, to determine time of death. And you
45:13
Speaker 2: know me, I'm your ever present forensic nerd. That's fascinating
45:17
Speaker 2: stuff to me. And so I'm going to keep my
45:21
Speaker 2: eye on it, as I know the brother Dave will
45:23
Speaker 2: and we're going to revisit this case because I don't know,
45:26
Speaker 2: inquiring minds want to know, certainly those of us here
45:29
Speaker 2: Bodybacks want to know. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this
45:36
Speaker 2: is Bodybacks