Latest / NO FILTER / Episode 23_ The Disappearance of Susan Powell and Murder of Charlie and Braden Powell

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Episode 23_ The Disappearance of Susan Powell and Murder of Charlie and Braden Powell · NO FILTER

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up you guys.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: I'm Haley and I'm Andrea, and this is Inhuman, a
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: true crime podcast. Okay, so I don't know. I think
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: my voice is better. I don't know if you can tell, Andrea.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's still a little raspiness in my voice.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit. It's not as bad as it
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: was like a couple of days ago or yesterday. Yeah, yesterday.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: But my voice is a little bit raspy because I
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: went to a Jonah's brother's concert two days before we
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: recorded this. It was on a Wednesday, August twenty fifth.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: This is coming out the following Monday. But I went
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: to Jonah's brother's concert, which I'm obsessed with them. If
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: you didn't listen.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: To my last episode, I.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Was talking about how obsessed I am with them and
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: how Joe Jonas re shared my Dog's video and I
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: about died when that happened. And so at this concert,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I was fourth row, fourth row, and I held up
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: an that said we're here because Joe Jonas duetted my
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: TikTok video. Because that's a thing that happened, and I'm
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: not going to go into details about that because most
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: of you probably don't care, but I'm gonna share about
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: it anyway, but I won't go into details about like
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the whole duet thing, but it had a backstory. I
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: held up that sign and Joe Jonas freaking saw it. Yeah,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: he literally saw it, and I got it on video
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: and he pointed and winked at me, and I have
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: it on video.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: That is so. I was literally like screaming when I
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: saw that video. I was like, I don't like I
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: was there.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, and I if you guys want
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: to see the video, I have it posted on like
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: my TikTok and Instagram and YouTube all of that. It's
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: all Robin Haley if you're new here. But it like,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I still can't believe it that he literally like saw
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: my sign and like did that. And I sent a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: message to Andrea and two of our other friends like
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: right when it happened or right after it happened, because
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I just needed to tell somebody. But I don't even
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: think I typed it all correctly. And it was like
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: what it was probably like nine ten o'clock in California,
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: and they're all everybody in that chat.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Andrea and my.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Other sleep friends were all asleep, so nobody saw it
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: till the morning, and I didn't even bother to fix it.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I think it said like Joe Jonas saw like my
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: and then sign was messed up or something.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: It was a disaster. But I was like screaming. Yeah,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: so that is why my voice is a little raspy
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: because I screamed a lot. But it was an amazing
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: concert and it was the best night of my life.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yay, And you get to see them again in October.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, except that one. We're like way in the back
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: because I couldn't purchase front row seats twice.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: It was expensive at all. Yeah, I know, I bet
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: it was worth it though, right, it was so worth it. Anyway.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: How are you doing.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: I'm doing.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I'm doing pretty good, you know, just thriving and surviving.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: Like I always.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Say, Hey, that's life with a toddler. Yeah, true that
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: he's been on one too lately. I don't know what
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: his deal is. I think he's just sick of being
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: cooped up in the house so much. Oh that's tough.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: So hopefully that'll change change soon.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: All right, you guys.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: So today I like kept going back and forth of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: what I wanted to cover today, But then I decided
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: to cover this case and I went deep into it
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: and there's a ton of detail in it. But I
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: don't think it'll be like too too long, but we'll
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: see how that goes. So I am going to be
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: covering the disappearance of Susan Powell, and there's other things
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: that happen in the story. I am going to give
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: a trigger warning right now that this does include child death.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I will again trigger before that happens, so you guys
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: can like fast forward if you don't want to listen
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: to that part. But it is I think still a
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: really important story to tell because technically her disappearance is unsolved,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and there's still a lot of things in this case
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: that I think need to be discussed and worked on
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and talked about.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Like lots of questions, yes, a.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Lot of questions. And I actually listened to the Crime
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Junkie episode on this because part of this case involves
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: like child protective services and like that, you know, the
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Department of Family Shoot.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: What does it exactly? Family services?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Department of Family Services. And the co host on
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Crime Junkie, brit she has fostered kids and has adopted kids,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: so that's why I wanted to listen to their episodes
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: specifically because she kind of had some input on it
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: that I thought was really interesting. So I'll kind of
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: bring some of that up here. And there is a
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: lot of information about this case out there, but honestly,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I kind of kept finding new things in different sources
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: in different podcast episodes, so I compiled it all. So
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: hopefully this is a really good overview. And then also
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: stuff has happened in a recent as twenty nineteen, and
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: like the Crime Drunky episode was recorded in twenty eighteen,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: so there's some like additional stuff on that.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Oh that's good. I didn't know there was any like
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: recent more recent updates on the case. Yeah, there's some
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: recent stuff.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Nothing like like I said, it still is unsolved, but
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: definitely some movement, which is good. Yeah, all right, so
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: let's just get into this case. Susan Marie Cox was
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: born on October sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, to Chuck and
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Judy Cox in Alamgordo, New Mexico. And I looked up
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: how to say that again. I spilled it out phonetically
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: in my notes because I knew I wouldn't be able
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: to say it she grew up and was living in
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Washington when she met Joshua Powell at a dinner party
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: in two thousand. Joshua or Josh Powell was born on
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: January twentieth, nineteen seventy six Stephen and Teresha or Terry
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Powell in Pewallup, Washington, which I also looked up how
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: to say multiple times, and I think that's how you
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: say it. That's how you say it, according to Google Translate.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: So that's what I'm going with. Yeah, the family, the
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Powell family, was part of the LDS Church, or the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, and apparently Stephen,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Josh's father was not really a big fan of the
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: LDS Church, and this led to problems between him and
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: his wife. In nineteen ninety two, when Joshua was sixteen,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Terry filed for divorce from Stephen, and the divorce filing
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: revealed some things about Stephen and the family's dynamic that's
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: not the best. So it alleged that Steven shared pornography
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: with his three sons, who were teenagers at the time.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Ew And yeah, like you know, teenagers are going to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: do whatever they do now with your dad, though, yeah,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: exactly gross. Terry also said that Steven treated them all
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: poorly and didn't really discipline their sons, which led them
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: to act out. Josh, who again at this point he
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: was only sixteen, allegedly killed his pet sister's gerbils and
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: then also one day, like full on, threatened his mom
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: with a knife. So he definitely was acting out and
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: did not have a super smooth childhood or like super
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: positive family life, and his parents ended up splitting up okay.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: After high school, Josh began attending the University of Washington
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: in Seattle, and his first romantic relationship happened here. It
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: was with a woman he met through a local LDS
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: church that he was attending while at college, and her
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: name was Catherine Terry Everett, and they moved into an
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: apartment together. But as their relationship progressed, he became very
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: possessive of her, and Catherine later remembered Josh restricting her
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: from seeing her own family without him, her own family,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: not his family, her own family, so he just was
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: like very possessive and controlling of her, and thankfully she
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: ended up like going to visit a friend in Utah
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: and then decided to just stay there and ended up
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: breaking breaking up with Josh over the phone and like
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: never seeing it again. So thankfully she got out of
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: that relationship. But that's kind of just an indication of
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Josh's personality and how he will be in future relationships.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Sounds a little narcissistic a little bit, yeah, just a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, he is a Capricorn, so like, you know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: it's I'm a Capricorn and you like to be in charge,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: so I get it.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: But also, but there's a fine line between wanting to
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: be in control and being like a control freak though.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: You know, yes, and doing things that will like hurt
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: others with your control. Like I get it. I'm a planner.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: I like to be in control, but I would never
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: be like, you can't see your own family without me,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Like that's ridiculous.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's crazy.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: So in two thousand, Josh met Susan Cox through an
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: LDS church course and they hit it off at a
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: church dinner party in November two thousand and two months later,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: they decided to get married. So they were only together
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: for two months before they decided to get married, which like, okay,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: that's real fast.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's too fast. Like I know, like sometimes those
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: situations happen and they actually work out, but that's you
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: don't know that person in two months, you just know. Sorry,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Oh sorry, guys.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. On April sixth, two thousand and one, the couple
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: married in an LDS template tempt I wrote template temple,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: not template temple in Portland, Oregon. Susan was nineteen years
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: old and Josh was twenty five when they got married.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I'm not gonna judge on the age
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: difference because I don't think age difference is the worst thing.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I will say. I think as you get older, age
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: difference becomes less important, and when you're nineteen, but a little,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, a big age difference, especially when you
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: like just.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Met and knowing, like well, hearing the kind of person
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that he is and knowing the kind of person that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: he becomes.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Are we drinking out the same cup?
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: We are? Oh my gosh, we are the one that
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Julie made.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Julie.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Shout out to Julie.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Shout out to our friend Julie who made us these
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: super cute cups. And we're both drinking out of them chairs.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: But knowing the kind of person that he is and
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: that he becomes, it seems almost like he was like,
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: you know, because she was so young, it was an
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: easy target, like targeting her because of her age because
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: she would be more easy to control, because when you're
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: twenty five, nineteen seems like multitudes away from each other.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, twenty five is older than I am right now,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, older than I am, and you're going
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: to marry someone that's nineteen, which to me nineteen, I
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: was a kid. Like, I know, you're technically an adult,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: but I was not an adult when.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I was nineteen, barely an adult now, Like, yeah, you're
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: a legal adult, but you're not like a grown up
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: in any sense of the word.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Right, So, yeah, they were. They were young. Susan was
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: very young, and Susan's family was obviously skeptical just because
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: she was so young and they hadn't known each other,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: and both Susan's parents and her sisters thought Josh was
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: kind of weird. So they all kind of thought that
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Josh was weird and overbearing, but the two were in
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: love and Susan dismissed those concerns. After they got married,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: they moved into Josh's father's house in Washington, and while
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: living there, Josh's dad, Stephen, became a little bit obsessed
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: with Susan. He would film her all around the house,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: with some shots obviously being without her knowledge, and he
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: apparently would also steal her underwear, read her journal, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: like follow her around everywhere, even watching her when she
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: went to the bathroom.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Ew.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, this guy's obviously like some kind of sadistic pervert.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's too far.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we knew like something was something was
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: awry when he's watching porn with his son. So true.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: In two thousand and three, Stephen told Susan about his
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: feelings toward her, which remember, this is your son's wife.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Nineteen year old wife.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's actually audio of this confession, and because
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: it was accidentally recorded on a camcorder, so there's audio
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: of this happening. And Susan was obviously shocked and disgusted
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and she rejected him. After that, Susan confronted Josh about
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: her discomfort and the couple ended up relocating to a
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: suburb of Salt Lake City, Utah called West Valley, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Susan was a trained cosmetologist, but when they moved here.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: She began working at Wells Fargo, and Josh kind of
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: worked different jobs, including one time being a real estate
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: agent and also a trucker, so he didn't have like
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: a set career. He was working in different jobs. In
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: two thousand and five, the Powell's first son, Charles or Charlie,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: was born, and his brother Brayden, was born two years later.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: As the family grew, Josh's controlling side that I talked
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: about in his first relationships started to emerge more and
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: from everything I read, he wasn't physically abusive, but he
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: had a very short temper and would like yell and
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: break things. And then he also started controlling everything Susan did.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: She could only use the family's car with his permission,
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: and she wasn't even allowed to use it to commute
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to and from work, meaning she had to bike seven
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: miles each way every day.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: That's absurd.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And it's not like he used the car for something
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and needed it, like he just didn't want her.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: To use it.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a control tactic.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Josh also controlled Susan spending like down to the penny,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: even literally making Susan knit her own socks. So the
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: family could save money.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: My gosh, Like that's insane.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I know, I mean, I get it if it was,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: like if he wasn't already such a control freak and like,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: you know, having all these ridiculous, you know, demands from
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: her like okay, sure, knit, you're socks whatever, save money,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: but like that's just crazy.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And socks, Like I feel like there's other things you
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: could say any on, like socks are not that expensive, Like.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: No, you can get them from the dollar tree.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: So he also controlled not only what Susan ate, but
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: also what his growing sons ate, and he would get
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: frustrated when they would be hungry and would tell Susan
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: that they didn't need to have food at home since
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: they got a meal at daycare and they're growing, like
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: they're toddlers, they need food, And Susan would sometimes have
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: to go borrow food from like friends or neighbors just
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to feed her hungry boys because Josh wouldn't let her
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: buy enough groceries.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: That's terrible, Yeah, that's unacceptable.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Susan and Josh did try to go to marriage counseling,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: but Josh would never really participate, and eventually he just
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: stopped going even though this was tough on Susan, her
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: religion was against divorce, so she tried her best to
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: make it work, and she was trying, but tensions just
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: kept building because Josh continued to be in contact with
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: his dad, who was still trying to make advances towards Susan.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, get a hint right.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: So that, on top of everything else, just made Susan
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: so uncomfortable. But again, she was trying her best to
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: make it work because she didn't want to do something
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that was against her religion. She didn't want to get divorced.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: In two thousand and seven, the Palals had to file
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: for bankruptcy, but not because like they didn't have money.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: They didn't have money because of Josh's ridiculous spending habits.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: They were over two hundred thousand dollars in debt.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: So despite him literally making her knit her own socks,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: he was spending so much that he put the family
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: in debt.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Susan was at this point trying to kind of pull
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: away from Josh and was leaning more towards wanting a
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: divorce despite it being against her religion. She was kind
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: of realizing that maybe this was going to have to happen.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: On June twenty eighth, two thousand and eight, Susan wrote
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: a letter addressed to her family and friends to warn
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: them about Josh. And this wasn't a letter that she sent.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: She put it in her safety deposit box, which Josh
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: didn't have access to. And in the letter, she claimed
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: that Josh had threatened to destroy her life if she
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: filed for divorce or tried to take his kids away
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: from him. Susan's sister heard Josh say to her over
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: my dead body, will you leave me and take the kids?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: So wow, sounds like a thread.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: No.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: In the letter, Susan said, quote, if I die, it
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: may not be an accident, even if it may look
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: like one. So you know, that's a little little telling.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: The next day, Susan recorded a video documenting her family's assets,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: and at the beginning she said, quote covering all my bases,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: making sure that if something happens to me or my
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: family or all of us there, that our assets are documented.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: And then she said, quote, I hope everything works out
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and we're all happy and live happily ever after as
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: much as that's possible. So like, it's clear that she
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: was worried about something happening to her, and it seemed
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: like her worry was specifically about Josh, and some people
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: like contradict this and say that she was recording the
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: video because a lawyer, like a divorce lawyer, had told
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: her to like document their assets before going into divorce proceedings,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: which like maybe that's true, but she still said that stuff,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: saying like, yeah, this is in case something happens.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: And they recorded a lot of their lives, right, like
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the whole family. They're like really into that.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and I also like I didn't watch the
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: video because it was really eerie. I started to, but
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: it just it's very eerie. And one of the sources
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: that I had was explaining it enough, but she was
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: kind of walking around saying like and this is Josh's TV,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: and this is Josh's this instead of being like it's
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: our TV or are this She was kind of like
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: referencing what was his and what he had purchased. So
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: there was definitely like not a lot of trust in
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: that relationship.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Like he had conditioned her like these are my things
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: that I bought, Like right, yeah, I watched the videos. Yeah,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: it was very disturbing.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Right, it just I know, I started to and then
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I had to stop. It was too creepy.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: So, jumping ahead to about a year and a half
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: after Susan had written that letter and made the video,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: we are in December two thousand and nine, and on
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: December sixth, which was a Sunday, Susan and her two
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: sons went to a church service at their LDS church
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: around noon, and after church, they went back home and
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a neighbor was visiting Susan at her house and she
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: left around five pm when Susan had said that she
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: wasn't really feeling well, and that was the last time
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: that Susan was seen by anyone outside of her family's house.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: As that neighbor was leaving the house, Josh said that
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: he was taking the boy's sledding, and the neighbor remembered
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: how he was like rushing out of the house as
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: she was leaving, and kind of like she was like,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: this is weird. Why is he all of a sudden
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: like rushing out. But maybe he just wanted to go
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: catch the snow like before it started snowing again or
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: something like that. At eight point thirty that night, another
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: neighbor saw Josh return home in their minivan and pull
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: into the family's garage at around ten am on December seventh.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: The next day, Charlie and Braden had not been dropped
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: off for at daycare like they had been every other day,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and this was really abnormal for the family. They were
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: usually on time and they would have called if like
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: something changed, and so the head of the daycare was
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: concerned and tried to contact both Susan and Josh, but
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: couldn't reach either of them, so she then ended up
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: calling the boy's emergency contacts, who were Josh's mother, Terry
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and his sister Jennifer. So the two of them tried
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to reach Susan and Josh as well, and they couldn't,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: so they called the police, and the police actually entered
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: the Powell's house that morning with the permission of the family,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and they entered because there had been some carbon monoxide
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: leaks in the area like in homes, and they were
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: concerned that there had been a leak and like the
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: family was inside and it made them pass out or something,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: so that's why they decided to enter and why the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: family let them. But when they went inside, they found
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: none of the Powells, But what they did find was
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: really weird. There was a wet spot on the couch
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: that had two box fans blowing at it. Josh later
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: claimed that it was a red wine stain that Susan
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: had spilled the night before and then like cleaned up.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: But why would you have two box fans blowing at it? Like?
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: It's just really weird, especially since nobody was home. Yeah,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: In the house, they also found Susan's purse, phone, and wallet,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: and even more strange, the house was completely locked up
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: as if no one had been there all night, and
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: there were also no footprints leading to or from the
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: house in the fresh snow that had fallen overnight. By now,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Susan and Josh hadn't shown up for work and no
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: one could get a hold of them, so they were
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: actually reported missing that day, which is pretty quick for
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: you know, typical, but I guess like because they're adults
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: and their kids are also missing, it's a little different
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: from like when a teenager goes missing or just one person.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So they were reported missing. Finally, around five pm that night,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Josh and the boys just magically returned home. Josh went
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: down to the police station and they asked him where
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: he had been, and he explained that he had took
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: taken the boys sledding around five pm the day before,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: and then they went home and watched a movie, and then,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: he claimed, at around twelve thirty am, he decided to
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: take the boys camping because they wanted s'mores.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally normal.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but that in and out
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: of itself sounds suspicious. Like you're taking your four and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: two year olds to go camping in the freezing winter,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: leaving at midnight, exact during a snowstorm. Like I don't
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: even want to go anywhere at midnight, let alone take
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: my kids anywhere at midnight.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, driving in the snow, that's I mean, you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: if you're used to it, I guess, but I hate
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: driving in the snow. It's dangerous.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And like why would you leave it, Yeah, twelve
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: thirty to go camping, Like that's just weird. I don't
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: care if you want. If your kids want smores, tell
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: them to go to bed. It's mid Why are they up.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly why are they up at twelve thirty at night? Like, no,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: go to bed, you can have s'mores in the morning. Yeah,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And you don't need to go camping to make smores.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: You can make them in your oven.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: No, you're right, you can. The police also asked why
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Josh had not been answering his cell phone, and he
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: claimed that it had been on low battery, so he
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: was avoiding using it so he could save the battery.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: But a detective noticed that his phone was plugged into
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: a charger in his car, so they were kind of like, oh, okay,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: that's weird, but okay. During Josh's interview, detectives also noticed
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: some cuts and scrapes on his hands. He was questioned
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: for about two hours, and he during that time asked
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: for an attorney. Cleaning quote. They told me that I
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: should have an attorney because they don't know what's going on.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: They said, I'm pretty much in over my head, which, like,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not gonna blame you for asking for
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: an attorney because like it's your right, and also like
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I would probably do the same thing. But he just
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem concerned at all for the fact that his
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: wife is missing. Like he kept saying, Oh, she's probably
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: at work, she's probably like this or that, but yeah, no,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: like they've checked everywhere.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Right, and I don't know for me personally, Like if
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: you're quick to ask for an attorney, that just screams guilt.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Like I know you in like certain situations like you should.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: But like if you're telling the truth and you're not
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: at faull and you're not responsible, like they can, sure
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: they can, I guess, like back you into a corner
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: and like make you have a false confession. But usually
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: that's like hours and hours into you know, interviewing or whatever.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So toward the end of Josh's interview, one huffer
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: actually told him that his story didn't add up and
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: he was detained that night, but was let go like later,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So he wasn't It wasn't like he was kept for
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: a ton of time. And the police thankfully deemed Susan
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: a missing person that day and they asked Josh to
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: turn the next day for another interview. The next day,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: during Josh's interview, they executed a search warrant for the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: family's home, and you know, he they did that purposefully
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: so that he wouldn't be able to get rid of anything.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: From the search warrant, police collected a bunch of boxes, bags,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and a computer from the home, and they also found
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: or reported that they found blood belonging to Susan and
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: another unknown male, along with that letter that Susan had
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: written and her one point five million dollar life insurance policy.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Whoa, that's a huge life insurance policy. Yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: The next day police also went to the campground that
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Josh had claimed he was at the night before, and
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: they searched there and they did not find any evidence
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: that anyone had been there camping because like, remember this
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: is December in Utah, Like nobody's going to be camping, right,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: So where Josh had claimed he was, they didn't find
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: any evidence of like a fire or anything like that
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: that there had been somebody camping. Also to be noted,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: after Josh's car was seized by the police, he rented
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: a car from the Salt Lake City Airport, Which, I mean,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: that makes sense, you need a car to get around.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: But what doesn't make sense is he drove a one
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: hundred miles in the two days he had the car. Well,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: that's a lot of driving to do in just two
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: days in a rental car. A few days after your wife,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: who is your young son's mother, went missing, Like, what
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: are you.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Doing that much?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where are you going Josh No.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: And the police also interviewed Charlie, who was four at
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the time, and he told them that they did go camping,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: and he said that his mom went with them but
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: did not come back with them.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: And then a few weeks.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Later, Charlie's teacher at school claimed that Charlie had said
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: his mom was dead, and Chuck and Judy Cox, Susan's parents,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: later also claimed that Brayden, who was two at the time,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: had drawn a photo of three people in a car
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: and then told the daycare workers quote, mommy was in
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: the trunk.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how horrific.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean you can't take for certain things
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that kids say, but it is very interesting, like they as.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Dead, Like I mean, kids don't know. I mean they do,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I guess know that terminology, but like why would they
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: just randomly say that, right.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: It's not like something that they would see on TV,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: like oh my mom's in the trunk and then repeat
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: it like yes, you know. On December twelfth, six days
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: after Susan went missing, her family held a vigil and
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: prepared a twenty four hour fast in hopes of her
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: safe return, and Josh did like appear very sad that night,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: and Susan's dad, Chuck did mention that he was concerned
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: about the focus on Josh, Like at this point, the
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: family I don't think thought Josh did anything wrong. One
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: week after Susan went missing, Josh was supposed to go
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: to the police station for a third formal interview, but
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: instead of going to the police station, he just hired
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: an attorney and full on skipped out on the interview. Again,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I understand wanting an attorney because you never know, like
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: even if you are innocent, like it would scare me
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: that the police are gonna make me say something or something.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I get that, but full on skipping the interview and
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: just being like no and not even like explaining, oh,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I'm waiting for my attorney to be in town. That
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: would make sense, but he.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Just skips suspicious Like I said.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did give a DNA sample that day, but
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: like it didn't lead to anything because they didn't have
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: anything to compare it to. On December eighteenth, almost two
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: weeks after his wife went missing, Josh took his two
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: sons to pew Wallup Washington to stay with his father
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Steven for the holidays. However, on January sixth, Josh returned
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: to West Valley to pick up pack up his family's home,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: not pick up pack up. He claimed at the time
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: that he had lost his job and wouldn't be able
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: to keep the home, and so he left town again
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: and they were now living up in pew Wall Up
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: with his dad, And then at the end of January
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: he returned back to West Valley to fix up the
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: house to be able to rent it out, and that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: you know, when he was in town. Then the day
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: after he returned, the police got a warrant to seize
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the mini van that Josh was driving the night that
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Susan disappeared. So they were like, Okay, he's in town,
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: we're going.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: To get it.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: But unfortunately they didn't find anything substantial in it, nothing
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: that could lead to anything that's surprising.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: If she was in the trunk, I mean, I guess,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: you know, we don't really know.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know if they had like cadaver
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: dogs or anything like, because I feel like, if there's
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: no blood, there's no way to really tell somebody was
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Right they could take you know, there was like carpet
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: they could take like a little samples from the carpet,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: but I guess if that specific area was not true,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: you know, mix with her blood or something, you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Bodley's fluids or whatever, then there's no way to tell.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Right, And it's not like they can use DNA or
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: anything because it was the family's car, so of course
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: her DNA is going to be there. So not much
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: was happening in the case. And on February fifteenth, twenty ten,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Susan's family held a press conference that finally revealed some
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: of the awful details about Josh. They shared how he
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: had been physically abusive to her at least once, and
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: so that was the only source that I saw that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: he had ever been physically abusive, And they shared also
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: how controlling he was and that controlling behavior that he had.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And then they also revealed that Susan had told her
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: family and some of her friends that she was wanting
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: to basically end her relationship with Josh before their wedding
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: anniversary on April sixth, Like she had kind of told
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: some of her family and friends things don't get better
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: by then, I'm done.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: The first true search for Susan's body happened in April
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: twenty ten, and it was a volunteer search of the
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: campground that Josh claimed that he was wet camping at
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the night before or the night Susan had disappeared. Un Fortunately,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: it didn't turn up anything. At this point, police had
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: five of their twenty eight full time detectives assigned to
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Susan's case, but there just wasn't movement happening. In September
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: twenty ten, Chuck promoted a new legislation with Ed Smart,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: who's the father of Elizabeth Smart, who had been kidnapped
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: in Utah and was found nine months later. And this
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: legislation was a new law requiring that anybody arrested on
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: suspicion of a felony to submit DNA, and as far
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: as I could find, this bill was passed in twenty fourteen,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: and the one that was passed in twenty fourteen said
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: that any person booked into jail on any felony charge
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: would have to submit DNA. So I think it's the
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: same concept. You know, if they're booked on suspicion, they
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: have to submit DNA. As the one year anniversary of
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Susan's disappearance, approach stuff with Josh kind of started getting
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: very weird.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: In my opinion.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: On the exact one year anniversary, Josh and his father Steven,
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: claimed publicly that Susan ran away with a man named
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Stephen Kocher, who was a man from Utah who had
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: gone missing in Nevada the same month as Susan. And
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: they claimed that Susan and Steven had an affair and
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: ran off to Brazil, where he had served an LDS mission.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: But I don't think anybody really believed this because there
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: was no evidence that they even knew each other. And
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: to me, this is just super suspicious, Like why would
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: you do that on the one year anniversary of your
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: wife's disappearance, Like even if you're trying to move on,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: like trying to.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Redirect the spotlight and the guilt from hisself onto her
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: because you know, he saw an opportunity. Oh, this guy
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: went missing around the same time. Let's see if we
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: can concoct a story. Basically, yeah, disgusting.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So, like I said, this went nowhere and nothing really
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: happened until the summer of that year or the next year.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: On July fifteenth, twenty eleven, Josh and Steven announced that
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: they were going to post parts of Susan's teenage journals online,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: and I'm not sure exactly why they wanted to do this.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: They probably like found some entries that would make her
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: sound like she was someone who could run away or
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: just something like that.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: But I feel like.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: That's just so weird, Like your wife and the mother
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: of your children is missing, and you decide you're going
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: to release her personal diaries online.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Like it's so attacking paceless.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And this thankfully was blocked by a judge in September
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: before they released anything, so nothing ever got released, but
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: just the fact that they were going to do that
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: is really weird. In August, an altercation happened between Josh
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: and Susan's dad, Chuck, and a judge gave them both
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: anti harassment restraining orders, meaning they now had to stay
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: five hundred feet apart from each other. And then nine
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: days after that, police finally announced the first break in
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: the case since it pretty much went cold in two
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: thousand and nine. The police were headed to search an
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: abandoned mine shaft near Eli, Nevada, which was about two
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: hundred and forty miles or three and a half hours
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: southwest of West value Utah. Unfortunately, though they searched for
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: two days and didn't find anything, but we will talk
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: more about some minds in just a little bit. A
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: few days after the search ended, Susan's friend Kirsey helliwell
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: revealed what had happened between Susan and Josh's dad, Steven
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: when the couple lived with him after getting married. So like,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: not many people knew this, and up until this point
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: they you know, I don't think police knew that this
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: had happened. And Stephen was along with Josh making these
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: public claims and stuff. And when this friend revealed how
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Stephen had made unwanted sexual advance towards Susan, I think
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: it kind of like police were like, wait a minute.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: So of course Stephen denied everything, but this did lead
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: police to be able to get a search warrant for
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: his house in Pewalla And like, okay, be ready to
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: want to punch someone because this made me so angry
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: when I read it. During this time, Stephen Powell said
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: quote I shared father in law, daughter in law flirting
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: with Susan and maybe some sexual touching or whatever. Then
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. Frankly, what is.
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: Father in law daughter in law flirting? Like that's not
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: a thing. Steven like that.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: No one.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure it happens, but like that's not a.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Saying no, Like, what the fuck do you think you're doing?
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: No, living in a fantasy world is what he's doing. Yeah.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: True, his poor wife, I know, well they were divorced,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: so true. She was probably like I'm out of here.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. She knew what she was doing. She's like,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: fuck this guy.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: But thankfully that search of his house did lead to something,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: and he was arrested on September twenty second, twenty eleven.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So on the computers and other belongings police collected from
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Steven's home, they found thousands of photos taken of young
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: girls and women without their knowledge, and those included a
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: bunch of photos of Susan. And they arrested him on
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: charges of child pornography and voyeurism, and in twenty twelve,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: he was convicted on fourteen counts of voyeurism, but they
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: did drop the child pornography charges. They were thrown out
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: by the Superior court. I don't know what it's like why.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if maybe they weren't sure they'd be
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: able to convict him on that, and they just wanted
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: to convict him on something.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, that's insane, because obviously they had some
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: kind of evidence that maybe they couldn't prove the ages
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: of the people or something like maybe they looked like
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: they were twelve maybe than you know, I don't know.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: That makes no sense though, yeah, none.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: About a week after Stephen was arrested, police began a
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: search in a desert in Utah for Susan's body, and
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: it was like a popular rock collecting area, so they
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: were searching here and after two days, cadaverdogs did find
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: human remains and charred wood in the area, but nothing
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: belonged to Susan. After Stephen was arrested, Susan's parents, Chuck
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: and Judy, filed a motion to get formal custody of
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Charlie and Braden. The boys were temporarily placed with their
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: grandparents five days later, and they remained with them over
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the next few months. In November twenty eleven, which was
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: coming up on the two year anniversary of Susan's disappearance,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: a judge set a custody hearing for the boys to
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: take place in January the next year, and before the hearing,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Josh created a website claiming that Chuck and Judy had
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: abused the boys, and this led police to investigate him
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: and like his computer and stuff. But instead of like
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: finding that it was true, they found a ton of
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: evidence on his computer indicating that he would not be
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: a fit parent to have custody over the kids.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Wow, what a dumb ass.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is disgusting, So just a warning here.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: They found images related to simulated child pornography, beast reality,
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: and incest, but they could not actually arrest Josh for
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: this because there were no actual children. It was simulated.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Is that like cartoon characters?
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Yes? Like is that what that means? Like simulation?
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Like I think?
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, I mean I guess, but you no,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that's so wrong.
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: So they couldn't arrest him, but it did lead to
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: a hearing about whether or not Josh would be able
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: to get custody, you know, full custody back of his
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: son's and on February first, twenty twelve, a judge granted
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: full custody of Charlie now seven and Bryden now five,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: to Chuck and Judy Cox. So he wasn't going to
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: get custody of his sons and the judge also ordered
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: him to have a psycho sexual evaluation by like a
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: court appointed examiner, and in this exam, Josh proved that
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: he was unable to admit any shortcomings in himself. Basically,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: they said he had a narcissistic personality, which like big surprise,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: and the court appointed examiner did find, however, that Josh
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: had quote adequate parenting skills, steady employment, and no criminal record,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: and this led the examiner to recommend that he would
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: have supervised visits with the boys weekly, and this would
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: be the worst decision made in this entire case. But
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: before I go any further, I do want to point
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: out that I don't think this court examiner should be
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: blamed at all. He determined it safe based on information
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: that he had, And in October twenty twelve, a report
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: was released saying that a lot of information about the
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Susan Powell disappearance was sealed at the time, and a
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: lot of that may have risen major concerns about the
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: children's safety, but at the time of the evaluation and
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: the court order, none of that was available. So I
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: don't think that we should at all blame that person
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: because they were just doing their job.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Based on what they had.
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm getting stressed though, I know.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: No, I'm going to give a trigger warning here because
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: if you don't know this case, like I mentioned at
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: the beginning, this next part does involve a child death. Okay.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: On Sunday, February fifth, twenty twelve, Josh had a supervised
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: visit with his sons and a social worker brought the
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: boys to the trailer that Josh was living in, and
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: when they got there, Charlie and Braden were excited to
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: see their father and ran ahead into the house. Immediately
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: after Josh got the boys inside, he grinned at the
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: social worker, like looked her in the eyes and grinned
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: at her, and then slammed the door, locking her out.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: She called nine one one right away, especially because she
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: faintly smelled gasoline. And I'm going to dive into that
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: nine one one call in a minute, because it's super interesting. It's,
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: you know, another I feel like a lot of times
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: we hear about these horrible nine one one calls.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: And this is definitely one of them.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: The social worker tried everything to get into the home,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: but she couldn't, and she just kept smelling gasoline and
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: it's just so heartbreaking hearing her on this nine one
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: one call. So I'm gonna play part of it.
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: Hey, I'm on to hiperviseetation for a cord or to
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: give it. And something really weird ha happened to kick
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: going into the house and the parent, the biological parent
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: who came to Josh Powell, will not let me in
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: the door.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: What should I do? It's eight.
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: And I I think it's eighty nine. I don't know
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: what the address is.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's pretty important for me to know.
• 43:07
  Speaker 5: I'm so I can't just gonna let me get in
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: my car and see if I can if I can
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: find it. I'm there's nothing like this has ever happened
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: before these visitations, so I'm really shocked. And I could
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: hear one of the kids crying, but he still wouldn't
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: let me in. But I can't kind of help right away.
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: He's on a parent short reached to CSAHs and CPS
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: has been involved, and this is the craziest thing.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: He looked right at me and closed the door. Are
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: you there, yes, ma'am. I'm just waiting to know where
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: you are.
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: Okay, you won't let me in the house. Who help
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: the kids in the house and he won't let me in.
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: It's a supervised is it?
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: I understand? Is it?
• 43:51
  Speaker 5: Josh Powell?
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, so you don't live there, right, No, I don't know.
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: I'm contracted to the state to provide supervised visitation thing, okay.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: And and who is there to exercise their visitation?
• 44:05
  Speaker 5: I am, And the pivot is with Josh Powell. And
• 44:09
  Speaker 5: you can't the husband that I supervise.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: So you supervised and you're doing the visit.
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I could provide show I have to provide my
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: stuff on the supervisor.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Here, wait a minute, the supervise visit. You can't supervise
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: yourself because I think supervide.
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: My stuff on the supervisor to the supervised visit.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, aren't you the one making aren't you the
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: one making?
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: The visitor is supersedeah, and I'm the one that supervises.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: I picked up the kids.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: That's your grandparents. And then who visits with the children
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: Josh Powell.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: It's just so frustrating. He's like, well, I can't do
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: anything for you if I don't have the address, and
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: then like he's making it super complicated and not understanding.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: But who who cares? Exactly what's going on. Doesn't say
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: they smell gasoline? Shouldn't you send help?
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Mom?
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: And don't they doesn't address pop up when you call.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: I guess maybe when it's a cell phone.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I always assume that it's just that
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: drives me the closest something something pops up.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I always thought too, But I don't know.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't like this was ages and ages ago.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: It was twenty twelve, so like you think by then,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: but maybe not. This nine one one operator just did
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: not help at all, and he did not understand the
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: urgency of the situation. And it took this operator over
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: six minutes to tell her that someone was on the way.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: And when he did, he told her, all right.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: Well everybody look for you there. Okay, how long will
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: it be? I don't know, man. They have to respond
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: to emergency like threatening situations first, the first available deputy.
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: He like threatening. He went court on one day it
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: hicks back and really I'm a freak for they're.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Live, okay? Had he written the live of the children previously?
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: I have no idea.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: All right, well, I'm the first available adapty contact you?
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: Thank you?
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding me, Like he was basically like, sorry,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: you're not urgent, so we'll get someone there when we can. Yeah,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: And right after she hung up the phone, the trailer exploded.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Josh set fire to the trailer, which killed both his
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: children and himself. And at this point, the social worker
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: called nine when one back about the fire that was
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: now burning. And then the fire department arrived thirteen minutes later,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: And this was twenty minutes after she made the first call.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And if the first officer or the first operator had
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: taken it more seriously, the boys' lives may have been saved.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, we don't know for sure, but that time
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: may have helped. And it does get worse. So just
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: another tear warning here. If you want to fast forward,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: like thirty forty five seconds, you might want to do
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: that here.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: When they examined the boy's bodies, they found chopping injuries
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: on their heads and necks, indicating that Josh had tried
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: to murder them with the hatchet before setting the fire,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: and they also found evidence of gasoline spread throughout the home,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: leading them to like rule out that this was any
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: sort of accident, and they knew that this was deliberate
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: and despite the boy's wounds from the hatchet, they died
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: from smoke.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Inhalation, which is awful because that means that they lived
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: after they were attacked by their father. Yeah, it just
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: makes me physically ill.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: It's also very unclear why exactly he killed his sons, Like,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: did he just want to hurt someone else, Was he
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: afraid they'd remember something? Was he just selfish? They obviously
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: will never know because there was he died too, and
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: there was no suicide note or anything. But it was
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: later found that before this happened, Josh gave away all
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: of their toys and also sent emails to family members
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: and friends about what to do with his money and
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: other parts of his life, and according to an ABC
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: News article, Powell said in the emails quote, he could
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: not live without his boys. Yeah, so I think he
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: just like was selfish and wanted to, you know, take away,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: didn't want anybody else to be able to have them,
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: And it was definitely planned.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: I think he felt like even obviously like we still
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: don't know what happened to Susan, but I think he
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: felt like the walls were closing in on him and
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: if he couldn't.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: Have his boys like no one could.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: That's probably accurate.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: So Stephen Powell, Josh's dad, who was in jail during this,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: was told about his son and his grandson's dad, but
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: he basically appeared unconcerned. He said he like at one
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: point he said he knew that he what happened. I
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: can't talk. He said at one point that he knew
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: what happened to Susan's body, and like he was. He
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: was like, I'm obsessed with her. I know what happened.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: But two weeks after Josh's suicide, he invoked his Fifth
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Amendment right and refused to answer any other questions about Susan.
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think he does know where she is.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: So, five months after this horrific murder suicide, court documents
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: were released that said that Josh had once told a
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: woman at a work party that quote, the best place
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: to dispose of a body is down a mine shaft.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: So after this, a mine explorer revealed that a mine
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: thirty miles west of where Josh had claimed he had
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: been camping that night had been filled with gasoline and
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: burned down. So the same day, emails Susan and had
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: written to friends were obtained by the Salt Lake City Tribune,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: and in that she talked about how controlling Josh was
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: his verbal abuse and said, quote, every moment I step
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: back and take stock of what I'm dealing with, it
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: feels like a never ending cycle. But I'm too afraid
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: of the consequences losing my kids, him kidnapping me, divorce
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: or actions worse on his part. So clearly Susan was
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: scared and stuff was finally kind of starting to come
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: out a little bit more.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you are scared, if you are in a
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: relationship and you are scared, do whatever, especially if children
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: are involved, Do whatever it takes to get out of it.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Because it's not going to get better. I can Yeah, it's.
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: Not going to get better.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And like, as scary as it can be, there's
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of resources to help and stuff like that.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can link those in the show notes to
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: help if we Yeah, definitely anything we can do.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: On February eleventh, twenty thirteen, Josh's brother Mike, who was
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: the one that had helped him clear out their house
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: in Utah after Susan disappeared, he committed suicide, and it
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: had earlier been discovered that a vehicle that he had
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: previously owned was abandoned at an Oregon wrecking yard, and
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: they actually tested that and proved that human remains were
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: once inside the truck, but that never led anywhere because
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: they couldn't do anything more with that. And then he
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: committed suicide again without leaving a note.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Interesting, So I wonder if he was involved to and
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: his guilt just ate him alive.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what a lot of people believe.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: What a tragic family look at that dad really fucked
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: his kids up.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, way to go, Steven.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: In July twenty fifteen, the child pornography charges that Stephen
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: had been accused of in twenty twelve but were thrown
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: out did come back to him, and a jury found
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: him guilty and he was sentenced to five years in prison.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: He given seventeen months credit for the time that he
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: had already served, and then he was released. On July eleventh,
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Just over one year after that, Stephen Powell
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: died from natural causes at a hospital in Washington.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: That's called karma. Yeah, sorry, no, it's true.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Police do say though that they wish that they could
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: have spoken to him before his death, and like they
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: were told that he was getting better. Otherwise they would
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: have gone and tried to speak to him. But honestly,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think he would have given anything up.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: And they had plenty of time before that, yeah, like
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: years of time to question him or whatever they were
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: going to do.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Well, at one point he did like invoke his Fifth
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Amendment rights and he was like not going to talk.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: So I think they were thinking, like maybe if he's
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: on his deathbed, like he might say something, but I
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: don't think he would. Yeah, he was too narcissistic. I
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: don't think he would have said anything.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Too much pride, Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: So now the three people that a lot of people
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: believe were involved in Susan's disappearance were all dead and
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: nobody left any note or information or anything about what happened.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: In January twenty nineteen, just over nine years after Susan
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: disappeared and almost seven years after Josh Powell killed his
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: sons and himself, a tip in the case popped up.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: The tip claimed that some of the minds in the
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: area that were previously searched by police were either not
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: searched at all, or they were searched very poorly and
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: as far as I could find. They haven't released anything
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: coming like about this search, but I personally feel like
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: they either haven't been able to research the area or
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: maybe they found something and they're not revealing it yet.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: But I could not find any more information about where
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: this tip led as of the recording of this episode,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, but I feel like that's a
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: pretty damn good tip. And just like the fact that
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Josh had mentioned like bearing a dead body in minds
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: and it was near where he was quote unquote camping
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: that night, Like, it just seems like they need to
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: do really thorough searches. But then again, if he did
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: like burn the body, there might be nothing left.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: Over time, Chuck and Judy Cox sued the Washington State
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Department of Social and Health Services over their grandson's deaths. However,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: a federal judge in Washington initially dismissed the case, explaining
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: that federal law protects social workers. But then in twenty nineteen,
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: a US Court of Appeals overruled this decision, ruling that
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Susan's family could pursue a wrongful death lawsuit against the
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: state Department of Social Health Services. But they couldn't pursue
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: anything against the social worker, which I totally agree with
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: because that socior was just doing her job and like
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: she wasn't notified of any potential danger that the boys
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: could be in with their father, And if some of
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: those records had been unsealed, they probably would have done
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: like a neutral meeting place or he wouldn't have gotten
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: visits at all, Like, you know, she didn't know any better.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: So so yeah, I wonder why they had them sealed,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Like they should know when it comes to children, you
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: should know every single detail from what's going on.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know if some of it was just because
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: it was like still an active case like Susan's. Yeah,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Susan's disappearance was still like an active missing person's case.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: But I don't know.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I know, it's it's ridiculous that that communicate or that
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: information was not communicated fully to everybody involved. In July
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty, Washington State was ordered to pay Charles and
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Judy Cox ninety eight million dollars for the death of
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Charlie and Braden. So they did eventually win that lawsuit,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: but obviously that doesn't bring their daughter or their grandsons
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: back and unfortunately, at this point, with nobody all the
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: evidence is pretty much circumstantial, and with the three people
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: who may have been there that night that Susan likely died, Josh,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: his dad Steven, and his brother Michael, with all of
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: them dead, we may never know. So that is the
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: tragic case of Susan Powell's disappearance and Charlie and Braden
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Powell's death is just so heartbreaking. And I was trying
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: to find if, like Josh has been even though he's dead.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: I was trying to find if he has been like
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: posthumously charged for their murder. But I don't think he
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: has been, which like if I were the family, I'd
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: want him to be like even even though it doesn't.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Like do anything, no justice.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so yeah, you know, I hope that one day,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe somebody will have some information that can
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: get out there, or maybe with more pressure on the
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: police to search the minds, they'll find something. But as
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: of now, there's nothing that has ever been found of
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Susan's or indicated where she went.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Such a tragedy, such a sad case.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: It really is so like always all post photos of
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: beautiful Susan and their beautiful little Boys on Instagram, so
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: you can see all those photos at Inhuman Underscore podcast
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: on Instagram and also on Twitter. I will post there
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: as well. We do have a TikTok that we try
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: to post one. Yeah, but if you want to check
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: us out on TikTok, we're in Human Podcasts. And then
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: we also have a Facebook group in human podcast is
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: it just in Human Podcasts or in Human Truth? Yeah,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: so you can go on there. We post all the
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: episodes and you can discuss and you know, especially cases
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: like this, we love to hear like what you guys
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: think happened stuff like that, So go join our Facebook
• 58:04
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• 58:08
  Speaker 2: if you enjoy. We're trying to hit fifty ratings by
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: the end of twenty twenty one. So if you are
• 58:13
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• 58:19
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• 58:22
  Speaker 2: the world to us. So we would really appreciate that absolutely,
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: And with that we will see you guys on Thursday.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening, and until next time, keep it human.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Bye bye.