Latest / Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite / Build a Business That Matches Who You’ve Become with Marissa Liesenfelt

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Build a Business That Matches Who You’ve Become with Marissa Liesenfelt · Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite

• Kait Tregenza: Welcome Marisa, thank you so much for being here. This episode of Becoming Flame is brought to you by Phenxx. Phenxx is a ritual luxury house devoted to erotic feminine embodiment. We create alchemical intimacy oils and functional fragrances infused with spagyric botanicals designed to soften the nervous system, open the body, and awaken life force vitality. Our formulations are crafted as tools of self-initiation. They are not cosmetic. Hello, welcome to Becoming Flame. I am your host, Kate Trogenza. Today, I am joined by Marissa Liesenfeld. She's a business mentor and human design guide whose story is not just about leaving the corporate or business world, starting anew, starting her own business. It's actually about the slow unraveling of a life that looked right, but didn't feel alive. Marissa: Thank you for having me, Kait. I'm excited to be here. Kait Tregenza: So I rarely have ⁓ that have done as many podcasts as you. And so when we do have those kinds of guests, always reference that for the, you know, the mundane, not the mundane, but the basics that are going to be covered. You know, like if you want know your story, ⁓ you're so great expressing it and, ⁓ really telling that journey. But ⁓ in my in, in They are not decorative. They are designed to be felt. They are designed to shift. Each oil facilitates a cellular shift into relaxation and receptivity, activating and opening up an archetypal femininity that your body knows and is yearning to step into. If you haven't heard of Marisa or you haven't looked her up before this episode, I really do encourage you to listen to the other episodes, other podcast episodes that she's done to get a real feel for her story, the nuance, the journey, the journey that she's been on, the transformation that she's been on. in the lead up to meeting you because I had so much lead time with you. I never normally get this much time. So I've like actually listened to every single podcast that you've done, your own podcast, all of these kinds of things. And have so many questions about the nuances and the, and the details ⁓ these in your life that really changed you from, I think where a lot of us start, which is that conditioning around what a good life is meant to be. What These oils allow the body to open safely into sensual intelligence, magnetism and creative power. They open the libido and open creative sexual energy. When the body is safe, it softens. When it softens, it receives. When it receives, it creates. And when it creates, the entire world shifts. When she reached out to me to be on the podcast, I felt really excited to have her because I thought there's an entire story here that really hasn't been developed on my platform yet, which is that good life that just doesn't quite feel right. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with it. There's nothing that you can pinpoint. There's no huge explosion. There's no rupture. There's no bathroom floor moment. It's just this. the correct life we're meant to be living. especially women have capacity and have the capacity to fulfill those wishes, those for the people love us and we think that we're doing the right thing by fulfilling those and going out and doing the corporate ladder escalation and getting to the top and getting all the things and the tick boxes are all done. We believe that women who sit deeply in their bodies, in their erotic intelligence and sovereignty, become powerful creators of their lives and the environments around them. Our products are initiations into that coherence. Luxury in experience. Devotional in use. Transformational in effect. Get yours now at phenxx.com That's P-H-E-N. Hmm. I don't know if this is mine anymore. And I really tried to get in specifically with her about what that actually felt like when she was in those moments of like, this it? Is this what I'm doing? I remember listening to her recounting her general life ⁓ at the time where on paper she had it all. And then you sit in that ivory tower and you sort of look around and you go. Okay. like, so was all ⁓ for This is the top of the mountain. This is the peak of my life. This is, this is it. And I think then you a lot of women, then shift into that maintenance. goes into like energetic maintenance of a life that isn't yours that you have to Marissa: Yes. Yes. Kait Tregenza: xx.com She was commuting to work, working all day, living with a man that she wasn't married to. They were together for 10 years. They had all the properties. They had all the jobs. They had all the friends. They had the family. She was doing everything right. And I think I wanted to explore that deeper because as we expand our listenership, And that you have to kind of start clinging to because it's actually not yours and it's standing in the place of the life that is. And so I think it would be really valuable for people to listen to before you had made the decision to make changes because we'll get there, but before that had happened, like what were the signs in your body? What were the signs mentally, physically, emotionally ⁓ you just There's a lot of women that are going to come onto this podcast because they're seeking something and they don't know how to articulate it yet. And I wanted Marissa to really go into what that itch was, what that pea under the mattress was, why she couldn't name it yet, but knew that there was something irking her. And I thought that it would be very, very valuable. holding everything together with sticky tape, with pure will and force and hustle and of the very good corporate girly kind of traits and qualities that we all celebrate, you know, in toxicity. Just those moments of like getting home and just like, yeah, really want to go back there. Marissa: Yes. Kait Tregenza: for women who are ticking boxes are doing right by but still feel ⁓ dim. not burned out. They could going forever. They, you know, can push it down and, and, and keep going keep on going on, keep on keeping on whatever it is. And yet it's like, but I'm also not. Marissa: Yeah, so I guess some of the, in hindsight, looking back and understanding now there's a different way of feeling in life, I can see I was very disassociated was probably is probably the best word for it. ⁓ I living and course I had moments of feeling like happy and laughing and like having emotions, but I feel like the emotional range that I was experiencing was still Kait Tregenza: not extraordinary orgasm. I'm not tasting my food and feeling ⁓ exhultation and gratitude and overwhelm with like pleasure and desire and life force and vitality. I'm just existing. I'm not not enjoying life, but I'm also Marissa: very shallow in some ways. And again, I can see this in hindsight now because now I feel a much bigger range of emotion. But I know we're focused more on that time. during that time, I maybe I didn't know that. But I think there was a part of me that was recognizing there's probably something more to life this sort of shallow range I'm operating in emotionally. Kait Tregenza: not really enjoying it either. And I have moments of up and I have moments of down like everyone else, but I am not living in technicolor. And that's really what I wanted to bring her on and explore so that you could feel the difference. And there was this shares these subtle clues that started calling out, you know, to her in her old life. And I think one of the things that I really want listeners to hear is like, Marissa: this routine life, like I'm not built for routine. I'm a Gemini manifesting generator. Variety is definitely in my DNA and yet I was running a routine pretty much, days look the same or you had your quarters that look the same and stuff like that. And so I was kind of just following the routine ⁓ and feel the where ⁓ There was a couple of things too. The moments where I felt maybe the most alive were kind of random. It was usually actually when I was by myself. either like I would walk to like from the train to work, like I would have like a mile walk in morning and night. And it ⁓ during those when I was walking through the city, I lived in Chicago at the time with like my headphones in and I wasn't in any of my roles in that moment. Like I wasn't in my corporate like COO role. I wasn't in my, you know, like girlfriend. Kait Tregenza: How do you see the clues in your own life? How, even when you've been through multiple identity upgrades and multiple lifetimes and you know, we always get to a plateau in the identity that we're in where it's like. ⁓ this isn't it anymore. Like this is not the final destination. You know, how do we get next level? What's that next thing that I'm opening up? Where's my heart now leading me to go? Where's my body urging me into great greater occupancy of the space that I'm in. And sometimes Marissa: you know, kind of like family role. was just like me and just me in the city by myself. And those were kind of the moments where I felt the sparks of feeling the most alive. I also had a lot of pull to travel, I think I still love traveling. I think that's just part of me. But I think I was at that time I was using travel escape and. Kait Tregenza: We arrive and we live for many years in the life that we felt really, really cool to create. And then eventually it's like, ⁓ I'm bored here again. This is all too familiar. This is all too small now. Or you start to like continue to work in that shadow realm and realize, ⁓ I've been pretending there or I've been conforming or performing there. Marissa: I noticed how frequently, like I would get back from like Bali, let's say, and I'd be like immediately like, okay, planning a trip to Croatia or, you know, like I was going around the world and probably went on like six or seven trips a year with a pretty demanding corporate career and everything else, right? So that's usually not super typical. So I found myself, yeah, escaping. I found myself noticing that when I was actually just by myself and not playing a role is when I felt the best. And... Kait Tregenza: you know, wherever it is. And so I don't think that this episode is only for beginners. That's my point in saying all of this. And I don't think that anyone who goes through continuous identity upgrades will ever be completely comfortable in them. So we always find clues and then sometimes they become more subtle, but I guess at every level that we're at, they're subtle. They need attention. They need Marissa: Yeah, mean, that's pretty much at that time before I making some changes. That the symptoms. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. The reason I asked you that question and took you back to that time is because I think can always be this misunderstanding of maybe you're not burned out, but you're also not alive. Like you're not in your life force. You know, you're not creating from very deep essence who you are. And that's a very different, that's a very different problem than I literally cannot get out of bed and attention and intention to find them. And so I think what today, ⁓ really helped me to unlock was how, when we started exploring the human designs and the gene keys and this identity work in this really grounded way, I started to realize, ⁓ I've never really used my human design or my gene keys, to Marissa: Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: I don't know what to do with my life and I'm on the bathroom floor and I need to make a change. Yeah. It's, this enemy of a good life, right? Where there's nothing quote unquote ⁓ but there's also nothing right. Marissa: Yeah, no, it wasn't that for me. Kait Tregenza: Manipulate my understanding of my shadows in, in a, a different way. So my shadow work has mainly been somatic. And I think sometimes you can get really tired of just always needing to do a process or always needing to go into the body. And sometimes using shadow work from this mental way, it's like, ⁓ I actually do do that. Like I can see the patterns of the Marissa: the most accurate way to describe me for sure. was like, yeah, I wasn't typed and tapped into my life force. ⁓ I wasn't super burnt out at that point. I had kind of figured out the routine. Like sometimes work was demanding, but it wasn't terrible. You know, like I could, I could manage it all. But yeah, it was this feeling of like, there's, has to be more than this. And then, you know, there was other things I started doing at that time too. It was like a slow, ⁓ Kait Tregenza: of my life. can see how this makes sense ⁓ from what this Gene Key or what this human design is actually calling out could be a pattern of behavior ⁓ that might show up in its unexamined or its unempowered, disempowered way. And I don't want this to be like a shortcut, nor do I want it to be like another self-impovement obsession. Marissa: sort of metamorphosis, but started spending more time going to yoga, started spending time listening to personal development podcasts and reading books and really of diving into personal development too. That was definitely part of that journey. And I think I got really curious about that because I was sensing that there probably is more than this. ⁓ And only tapped into such a small part of what life can be. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. But I think really coming to a deep understanding of yourself and how you're actually designed to move, to create, to lead, to pivot, to rest, and also like to choose what you want for your life is so valuable because we can really get rid of these cookie cutter coaching courses or this like five step process that did you even articulate that diagnosis? it that you started to meet other people who you felt were more turned on, ⁓ vibrant, more alive, or was it something else? Marissa: Yeah, I think that was part of it. almost like it was like a lot of little things put together. But yeah, I would listen to podcasts and follow different personal brands like Gabby Bernstein and people like that that talk about this stuff. So was like, OK. I was learning things and seeing that there's a different way. When I started one of my roles, which actually was my last role before I started my business, Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Or like follow me how I did my business for me because we already know that isn't going to work. But what I love about this conversation, it's not just about using your design as if you're a fully empowered and fully developed in those skills, but like where is it showing up where they're not developed, where they're not, you know, worked out and really understood. Marissa: which was at Boss Babe, they were very tapped into a lot of the personal development world. And I was learning a lot from them and just seeing a different lifestyle that they were living in LA, which was very different from my corporate world in Chicago. Yeah, was kind of like getting these glimpses through people in, whether was in the media or in my life, and getting these glimpses into like, ⁓ there's different ways doing this. And then of course, traveling, going to Bali going to... Kait Tregenza: So it's about understanding your optimal design, but it's also about understanding what your suboptimal design is, what the defaults, what the shadows, what the disempowered, what, what it looks like when you're not using your design to your highest. Cause if you know what that life looks like and you know what your life is, then you have a before and after that you're working for. Marissa: like Mexico and places like that where they are kind of spiritual places. And I was getting more tapped into that as well. So yeah, it was kind of like a lot of little things put together. Kait Tregenza: And the way, reason that I say it in this way is because Marissa is an extremely practical, you'll, you'll get to know her. You know, she's a COO through and through. She loves organizing. She loves making systems and simple processes that everyone can make their own individualized way towards gaining understandings and insights from this project. From this process. Yeah. So for me, this conversation and And I guess you have this felt experience of what your body feels like when you're on holidays, when you're traveling, when you're dropped out of, you know, life as normal into this new place. I anyone who goes traveling, even just to like a resort style holiday, knows the difference between hustle and relaxation, right? Marissa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it wasn't just that either. It was more than just the difference between relaxing and not relaxing. Kait Tregenza: The way that I was having it today is really for the woman who isn't necessarily falling apart, but who also knows she's not fully alive. You know, for the woman that keeps overriding those body signals, those intuitions, because she's got to keep driving through, making it happen. mean, apparently 90 % of people are generators and that is a generator trait as we sort of talk about is like. Marissa: Like I actually had, I've brought up Bali a couple of times because I think that was the most profound experience that I had. It was, think it was my first time in Asia. And I went by my, it was actually my first solo trip as well. So this was back in, gosh, was like 2016 or something. And I yeah, on trip, I ⁓ sort of joined this group and I met them there, but I was by myself and met them for the first time there. So. Kait Tregenza: just keep going through something even, you know, committing to the cause, even when it might not always be correct. So human design comes into a lot of the conversation that we're having today. And so really, I hope that this conversation for any woman who is really beginning to realize that self abandonment doesn't look like what we might sometimes make it out to look like. ⁓ OK. Yeah. Marissa: It was the first time that I traveled by myself. It was the first time that went and just met a group of people that I never talked to before in my life and then spent a week with them. And was something about on the island well. Like, it's hard to almost but my body felt so ⁓ different than it ever before. Like, I've never felt this feeling in my body before, but it was such an amazing feeling of just... Kait Tregenza: Sometimes it looks like being nice, being loyal, being capable, being easy to love, being not available to outgrow your mother, not available to outgrow your friends, not available to outgrow relationships or partnerships or, you know, job contracts. So for me, the biggest takeaway is that your body has probably been telling you the truth. Marissa: feeling grounded. And I literally could feel, and I didn't even have this word for it back then, but I could feel the inflammation leaving my body. I suddenly was my force, I guess, is a way to say it. And I explain I noticed it so much. And I'm like, what is it? Is it the food? Is it the environment? But I actually think was all of it. think it was getting a glimpse of me, like me getting a glimpse of myself in my. Kait Tregenza: for a really long time, but your mind wasn't ready to hear it. So I think human design and the way that Marissa talks about human design and accessing its codes and its insights and its values and it's like literal design for your life is very, very, very, very valuable. You'll want to listen to the end because Marissa is making a massive giveaway. So she will be giving you a code right at the end. Marissa: a higher place for myself and what that actually feels like in your body. then I went back home and just kind of went back to the routine, but that really stuck out in my mind of like, what was it about that week that I was in Bali that I felt so different and felt so alive? Kait Tregenza: Yeah, and the energetics, the volcanic, so many aspects to the geology and the astro-cartography Bali that ⁓ many can tap into when they're there and they have these transformational experiences. Plus there's beautiful reverence of the mother and the feminine in Bali that a lot of, particularly you coming from corporate, being American, all of those kinds of things is a very stark contrast, right? of the podcast. You want to stay tuned for that because it's a giveaway. You won't want to miss. All right. Without any further ado, let's bring in Marissa Liesenfelt. Marissa: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: You know, and then like at another level, there's the chaos and the like cacophony of all that is Bali, you know, compared to everything that you were living in day to day. Marissa: Yeah, yeah, and it was just really, I mean, now I felt that different ways, in different places, different times of like this different feeling in my body. And now I'm just tapped into a different version of myself. But back then, yeah, just, couldn't explain it. And I didn't even talk about it on the trip. I just kind of kept it to myself, but I was really like, wow, this is, something's going on here. Kait Tregenza: So are lots of people that have beautiful on holidays that feel really great, that feel differently in their body, and then override all of that to slot back into their life, go back to what they were doing and just pray and hope and dream of having another holiday at some point soon. Why didn't you do that? Or how was it not possible for you to do that? Marissa: Mm-hmm. I actually think... I did do that to some degree because I came back and slotted back in. But yeah, but I was changed. And from there, the next moves I was making, and none of this was planned. It was just sort of like what I was doing. But I can look back and see what I was doing now. And between 2016 and 2020, that is when I just suddenly was like, I'm going to travel as much as I possibly can. So maybe it was part of me. I don't this wasn't like intentional, but maybe it was part of me trying to seek that again. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Marissa: seek that feeling again. that's when I went to Thailand and Hong Kong and Dubai and South Africa. And like, I just traveled as much as I possibly could in those years before COVID happened. And was, I think, ⁓ but like, unpeeling the, you know, like, excuse me, the armor and the layers and like, getting me back into my essence, which then... Kait Tregenza: Yeah. I think that's really important. And you know, these are the reasons why I'm trying to ask your style is because we all have our own way of arriving where we can at the pace that we go. And people's energetics is like, ⁓ I've this decision. I'm going to like blow everything up, you know, and it happens from one day to the next. And another person's is like, well, I'm just going to slowly unravel. Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: take breaks, unravel a little bit more, reveal a little bit more, go and do a bit more education. there's no one way. There's a million ways that you change your lives in the same way that you construct your life, however it suits you. And I think the pivot into this was you hadn't really your human design yet, but somehow you were still doing something at your own. you know, in your own style, in your own way, maybe not consciously yet, maybe it's not fully aligned to your human design yet, but it's like, I'm just going to take the steps that I can take. I never want people think ⁓ you to this one epiphany and then you, you know, your life. Like it doesn't have to be that way. So I really love the fact that even this ⁓ and this like, we're just at the beginning of your story is unfolding over four years. Because sometimes when people hear these podcasts, they're like, she did this and then she did this. And you're a story that happened over many years, but in the space of like a couple of minutes, it sounds like it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And people start to go, I'm not doing that. I'm not making decisions quickly. I don't know what I need to make. I need to go into the action. But it's like, sometimes these action steps Marissa: Right. Kait Tregenza: can be months in between or years in between. And I think that's sometimes it's just like, let's not put even more shame and blame on ourselves when we're making huge towards unraveling who we could ultimately be. Marissa: Yeah, for me, it definitely, I mean, at a point I made some dramatic moves later, but it was easily four years of me, yeah, having these kind of like unpeeling moments. And I also at that time believe there a way out anyway. But it's hard to explain all this because I wasn't consciously actively thinking like I need to find a way out of this, but I was starting. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: to. Marissa: to obviously escape through travel. another thing I was doing, and this was probably because I was living where I grew up, so I lived there my whole life and had a lot of friendships. And most of the people around me had been there for most of my life or a good portion of my life. And I love those people still, and they're still my really close friends. But I found myself seeking, I would start to go to just like. networking events and things like that, like women's entrepreneur events, even though I wasn't even an entrepreneur yet, but I was like really loving the energy of those types of events and meeting new people. So I was like, that's another kind of clue. I guess you could look at it as like clues to have like, what, what are you doing? What are you getting pulled to do? And what does that tell you? Because, you know, I was getting pulled to like expand my circle and meet different types of people with different types of thinking. And, you know, I was really drawn again to these like entrepreneur circles because they were not the corporate people, were generally the people that were breaking out of the program. So why was I attracted to that? Well, there's a reason for it. But it was like, yeah, all these kind of little things that happened probably over a span of four or five years. But in that time, again, I was feeling like, I don't have another option. Like I am in a long term relationship. We own our home together. I live near my mom, which is what she wants. I didn't think there was a different way so I was just trying to make it work with what I had too. Kait Tregenza: Did you also all of those things or were you doing you thought was right? Because I think that can be almost another nuance. It's like, but I also love living in town that I grew up in and I love that my mom's like two seconds away from me. Or did you also feel like there was, while you loved it, there were also like strings attached to that. Or was that not something that you were conscious of? Marissa: Yeah, I think probably the latter. I don't know that I was consciously thinking of it this way, but I think I felt that I love my family. I love my friends I grew up with. I still do. I mean, very much so. And I felt like, there were strings. Or like I was kind of dimming myself a bit to live that life. Kait Tregenza: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's this other glass ceiling, right? Of like, well, if I change my bandwidth that I'm operating on, how am I going to come back and have Sunday dinner or Christmas or any of these? Like, how am going to stay connected to my friends if I'm off doing all these different things and they're doing the same old, same old? do I manage that? And I think that's a really, it's a, It's a loop that people don't talk about a lot and it's also not necessarily, there's no anger, there's no hatred, there's no like, there's no difficulty that happens. It's just all of a sudden, like you've got growing pains, you've got like, you've got to stretch your wings and you don't know where the space to do that is or to still be able to fit in the same rooms as people. And I think that's a really silent. battle that a lot of people go through. Marissa: Yeah, and I think there's, again, if you think about it in terms of clues, looking at clues, one of the clues I had was I found myself really wanting to go to some of the parties and go to some of the social events. Even though I love party, I am very social, and generally, will want to go out and do stuff. But I found myself like, ⁓ feeling like I don't really want to go because I feel like we're going to talk about the same things that we always talk about and I'm going to feel different than everybody else and I'm going to feel like kind of bored. like ⁓ was another clue for me is like I suddenly just wanted to kind of opt out of some things, even though I could see that everyone else was like really excited about it and still thought it was like, you know, the thing they would want to do. And that would have been true for me like 10 years ago or something. But now I was like, I'd almost rather just stay at home. Kait Tregenza: I love this. And the reason I went into it is because I think it's so easy to tell the highlight reel. when you're somebody who's sitting, listening to a podcast, trying to change their life and trying to know like, what are the next steps? Like they can now think like, ⁓ yeah, I don't want to do all of these various that I used to love. And I think that's such a reminder for anyone who shifted out of that, especially like to let themselves be forgiven of it's not that you have an issue with that person. It's about actually taking an inventory of your own energy when you're with those people. Something that's just coming to the top of the mind at the moment is I have a friend, we've been friends for almost 10 years now, ups and lows, all of this. Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Nothing's ever necessarily happened between us, but every time I am now in her company, get drained. I have headaches. I don't want be there and I'm angry inside. a her at myself that I'm still trying to maintain this friendship out of some kind of false loyalty. this desire of like, I've lost so many friends through my ascensions over the years, through my identity upgrades and shifts and changes and all of this type of stuff. Well, this person, she's sort of like the one that remains and I got to make it work, and you don't want to let people go. But at the same time, it's like, I am making myself sick to be in the same room as this person. Marissa: Yep. Yep. Kait Tregenza: And I think that's, these are like really great, as you call them clues, like signposts, wrong way, go back and follow your heart. Yeah. Marissa: Yeah, and now that I understand, wish I had the tool of human design back then and how to navigate with that, but I didn't. I have it now. it's, I for personally, because I'm a manifesting generator. And when I feel frustration or anger, that's the signpost that this isn't for you right now. This is not aligned for you right now, you know, and giving yourself the permission to ⁓ say, okay, well, is not aligned for me. So I'm not going to do this right now. I mean, of course, sometimes we have obligations to our parents and things like that that we have to consider. But I think a lot of us make ourselves do things that we really, really don't need to. And better for both parties if you're not forcing something because it's not going to be a line for them either if you're not in your best energy. Kait Tregenza: One of the things that I really noticed that, especially since coming into a much deeper understanding of my human design, but also like layering that, like my gene keys or my and all of these kinds of things. And actually like using this as like, not a get out of jail free card or not like some like these are the lottery numbers for me, but more like, you know, when frustration up on my body, you can actually start to get really excited about that because it's like, I don't need override this. And yet if you've you haven't known your human since you were a little kid and you have to learn this at some point and wouldn't it be great if all little kids like just grow up knowing their human design? Like for example, I know my daughters and I'm like, I know her signs and I can parent her accordingly. ⁓ But course I didn't grow up that way. Most of us didn't grow up that way. Right. ⁓ Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: And so we actually have to reparent ourselves that when we're getting frustrated, instead of like overriding it, which is the conditioning that we've all learned of just like grin and air it push through. Now it's like, I'm sorry. My system is registering frustration. This is not an alignment for me. I'm going to excuse myself. And it's like, everybody's so much happier this way. Marissa: Push through. Yes, yes, it's your whole, I mean, now the way I like to talk about it, you know, forever from my up until the last, excuse me, a few years, I've operated my entire life from my frontal part of my brain, know? And our brains are really powerful, but our whole bodies are very powerful. And when you tap into that full body intelligence system, it's absolute game Like suddenly. ⁓ Yeah, almost like it gives you permission because you understand the intelligence the same way you listen to your brain. Now you're listening to your body and it's like, yeah, you have the permission to say like, this isn't I'm not going to continue to ⁓ push something that is very clearly not aligned for me. My body's giving me that signal very clearly. So you just you stop wasting so much time going down the wrong path. Kait Tregenza: And I think of it this way, it's like, if you have the the motivation, the determination, the the bravery, all of these kinds of things that go into overriding your entire system that is designed to aid in life, imagine if you put all of that into following it. Marissa: Mm-hmm. Yep, And now I do. ⁓ amazing. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: So that's like, yeah, and that's what I was going to say. So let's have that conversation now, because that's way more exciting. But I think it's always useful to like hear we override this, because I think it's so easy to say, we override ourselves, we self-abandon and someone sitting at home is like, I don't wake up in the morning and like decide I'm going to abandon that day. Like how ridiculous. ⁓ But like, once you learn ⁓ what abandonment ⁓ is, going to that party, Marissa: No, it's not like that, yeah. Kait Tregenza: when whole system's like, please stay home, please don't do this. I don't want to go. Getting there, being so angry, being so frustrated, getting angry at everybody, making yourself sick, making yourself frustrated, not being able to sleep that night, being dysregulated for the rest of the week. That's self right? That's a form of self abandonment because you didn't listen. Marissa: Yeah. And what's worse me at least sometimes is in those moments, ⁓ I would do is like put on a smile and act like I wanted to be there, you know, and try to still be social and fun. know, but essentially I was like screaming like, I don't want to be here, but yeah, like playing a part. And that's super confusing for your body because it's like, what do you, you know, you're, yeah, you're just acting. ⁓ What should life? And Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Marissa: your external doesn't match your internal and that's very confusing. Kait Tregenza: And it's my dream that there are no more good girls in the world and that we all just started acting exactly how we felt. Because we changed the world overnight. We'd stopped tolerating so much never in our best interest. So talk to me about the journey of coming into yourself, really learning these systems and these design to actually go and create the life that you wanted. Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: moving into the identity work that you now do. like skip the of the corporate into like, now you have arrived ⁓ this world. Marissa: Yeah. So I think, okay, so let me share a little bit about the bridge because I think it is important that, you we talked about how for four or five years or so, right, probably even more than that, but like it really was starting to get loud for me in that four to five year period of like, I don't feel alive. I don't feel aligned, but again, not burnt out either. And like having still moments of goodness and whatnot, but excuse me, knowing there was something different for me. And like having just these little moments of that. Well, finally, and for me, COVID was kind of, well, there was two things. My dad passed away in 2019 and then six months later, COVID happened. So these like two things happening back to back for me was my like kind of pattern interrupt to say like, tomorrow's not guaranteed, right? Like that was kind of the big lesson I got out of those two moments together. And it was like. So if tomorrow's not guaranteed, you don't know how much time you have to actually live the life you want to live. Is this the life you want to live? So I was kind of forced to really examine that, especially locked in really examining it. So actually have then finally a moment where I was like, I need to make some changes. But even then, it wasn't strategic. wasn't like, OK, I'm going to x, y, and z, and this is how I'm going to, here's my strategy how I'm going to change my life. It was still. very much that like kind of murky stepping through and like trying to figure it out. And that happened for like another three years, I would say. But the biggest changes I made in, was like 2021, was broke up with my very, long-term boyfriend. ⁓ We together, owned homes together. Like it was a big deal. And, ⁓ but I I knew that that, I knew for a long time that was something I needed. I finally had the courage to do it. think actually that period I could like label as courage because all the things I kind of wanted to do I finally just started doing, but I did it scared. Like I did it very, very scared. And it was like, ⁓ like day I'm just going to have this conversation and I didn't even plan it that morning. And that day the day it just came tumbling out. Like I need to leave this relationship. And then the next thing was I don't want to live in Chicago anymore. Like then I was like, okay, I have to find somewhere to live. And I was looking at sites, like apartment sites in Chicago, and everything in my body was like, no, this is not what you want to do. I had this blessing that my friend who lives in New York City, she knew what was going on, and she was like, hey, we're going to be traveling for four to five months. Do you just want to stay in our place while we're traveling? So I was like, oh my god, yes. And interestingly enough, I looked back at a journal two years prior. from like a yoga new moon circle thing I had gone to and in my journal I had written that I want to live in New York City. So it was almost like a manifestation. But then, you know, I had to tell my mom I was moving away. My mom, I'm an only child, she's single and she very much, you know, kind of depends on me for a lot. So that was... Kait Tregenza: Well, this is the piece of your story that I didn't actually realize before. don't think you've maybe mentioned that the things that I had. So that makes your relationship with your mother a lot more nuanced. There's a lot more understanding that I have now as the mother of an only daughter. ⁓ hope that I'm not going to burden my child in the future, but ⁓ that relationship, it's so tight, right? Marissa: Yes. Yeah. It's tight and I would almost say that, me, ⁓ almost like more the mom in dynamic. She is a mom in the sense that she's very nurturing and very caring ⁓ and it's like she still treats me like I'm 12 or something like that. So she always wants make meals for me. She's asking me like, how you feeling? Are you okay? Like she's a mom in that sense. But when it comes to being more of the leader, I would say that's more me. And she has lot of anxiety. She's afraid to travel. She hasn't been on a plane in like actually probably more than that, 40 or something years. And yeah, so she's going to Chicago if she doesn't travel. So for me leaving, that was a big, big, big deal. And was so scared to tell her that even just to move to New York City, which you can even drive there, you know? And so yeah, so that was like, that took a ton of courage. And so I told her it was hard, but you know, she had to accept it. And then I moved to New York and just getting out of the day to day, like day to day that I had been in for decades, like that, that was like a huge sigh of relief for me. ⁓ But. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Marissa: After about maybe four or five months, I was kind of like, OK, I still didn't know what I was doing. I just knew I got out. Like I did the first step, which was just removing myself. And that was the hardest step, I think, looking back. I think sometimes that's important. We just have to find a way to get out into something like a different environment. And then we can take the next steps. Like I didn't know what my next steps were. I just put my stuff in storage and had two suitcases and went to New York. And then it coming to be the time my friends were going to come back. And I to. figure out my next move. then I was like, OK, I started looking at apartments in New York. And I'm like, this doesn't feel right either. So then I said, well, you know what? It's coming up on summer. Why don't I spend the summer traveling? I could work remote. why I just travel Europe for the summer and kind of see what happens? Like, I really didn't have a plan. I just couldn't have a plan. It's like my whole life I had planned everything. And now I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing. But maybe I'll just go to Lisbon. So I I booked a one-way ticket to Lisbon, Portugal. randomly, I don't know why I picked Lisbon. I was here for three weeks. Now I am still in Lisbon. And just felt I was somewhere belonged. I met so many people right away. I felt a community right away. And in that three week time period, I just it wasn't even like it's it's almost like it wasn't a mental decision I made. was like a decision my body made in some way. It was felt like intuitive of just like. Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Marissa: this is where you live now, like this is your home. I remember the moment it happened too, and I was like sitting in an Airbnb and it just sort of like landed for me, ⁓ this is where you belong right now. So I did go on to travel that summer, but I came back to Lisbon and so I moved. I got visa, which was a whole other thing, but did that ⁓ and moved Lisbon, was kind of like the next step. Kait Tregenza: But it's interesting the places that you've traveled to that you've spoken about in this podcast, like Lisboa. it. it's, Lisbon is a very interesting place. And I'm so glad, actually, everyone who's listening to this, turn off your ears right now, because I don't want anyone to go there. It's like, it's, so, undervalued. Like so under the radar. And yet for me, it's just like this very, um, when people talk about like, love Barcelona, I'm like, okay. But have you been to Lisbon? Like, it's just a very, it's a very vibrant, like when you're talking about life force and vitality, like the, the energy that runs through, not necessarily all of Portugal, but very specifically in Lisbon, I think. Marissa: Yeah, yeah. you Kait Tregenza: I can really recognize in my own travels in my own history was very similar because it was the same thing. was like, I'm going to stay here for like a couple of days. And I ended up staying like several months and it's just a really special place. Like you do not need to to make friends and connections and family there. I mean, if you're open, I think if you're locked into that same frequency, cause I've been to, you know, I've spoken to other people about it and they're like, Marissa: Yeah. No. Kait Tregenza: What? No, it's just weird. it's nobody talks to you and cold and like, I'm like, that's so fascinating to me. Cause I think that it's one of those places that's why it stays really under the radar because you either get it or you really Marissa: ⁓ Interesting. Yeah, and some of that makes me think, you know, your inner world or your outer world reflects your inner world a bit. So it could be, mean, personally, because there's a huge international community here, too. So it was very easy for me to make friends. ⁓ mean, literally in that three, that initial three week trip I was here when I actually decided to move here, there was one day when I was just walking the street like. Kait Tregenza: Totally. Marissa: where all the shopping is. I think I was just going to the pharmacy, so doing something very normal. And randomly, this guy came up to me, he was just like, hey, I just want to say to you, you have such a glow. You have such a nice energy. And he was across the street from me. And he just came up to me and said, I really your energy. I feel it. And you have such a glow. And that was it. And then he kept going. But I was like, ⁓ my gosh. No one's walked to me and said that to me before, because I probably didn't have a big glowing aura before. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Marissa: And so it was just like, wow, like all these like little things were happening where it was just like, yeah. And, you know, I also think too, there's, this is, I don't know, my take is that places have feminine and masculine energy. And I think Bali, Lisbon, both those places where I had definite like energy exchanges with the place were very like feminine nurturing places, I think. I'm actually about to move to more of a masculine place, so it'll be different, but. I was coming from New York City, very, the most masculine place ever. So, ⁓ know, I think that it was an interesting, it an interesting place for like a healing journey here. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah. I wanted to ask you something because I didn't want to interrupt you earlier, but I really, I really feel like there's this whole opening there that I do want to go back into your story. When you first working in corporate, was it challenging for you to have an identity or a wealth or a set of responsibilities or any of those kinds of nuances to that was ⁓ actually already than your mother's? Marissa: No, because I feel like our whole lives, the dynamic was that I was more of the leader. Kait Tregenza: Right. it wasn't ever like this, can't overtake ⁓ mother in the same way that you had with your friends and your sort of like general people in the city at that point. That's fascinating. Marissa: No. No, it was different. was more that I felt like I was abandoning her. That was more the feeling there. I didn't feel like I was abandoning my friends at all. I mean, we talk all the time, but I felt like I just didn't fit in anymore, and it was time to leave, and they were going to understand it, and they did. With my it was like, I felt like I'm abandoning her, and I know she's going to feel like that. Even if she knows, I mean, she's a... Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Marissa: like a beautiful person. it's, she probably knows that that's not ideal, but I think ⁓ the truth. She was very sad and you know, I think she, yeah, I think it comes from a lot of stuff that she's had to deal with in her life too, but yeah, it was just a different energy with her. Kait Tregenza: And is she a planner as well? Like, did you get that from her or did you get that as a result of her not being a planner? Marissa: I don't, I like a planner is not the right word. My mom is very, she likes to keep the same routine. Control is something I would use, but not in a aggressive way. controls her environment so that she feels safe and okay. Like she has a lot of anxiety. So she keeps her environment small. She keeps her circles small. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Marissa: wants to know, wants everything in her life to feel very familiar to her because that feels comfortable and safe for her. So she keeps a very small ⁓ and a very ⁓ she's worked at the same job for like, I don't know, 30 some years or something like that. And she she kind of lives the same day over and over again. But that's what keeps her comfortable. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, that's fascinating, isn't it? How we try on our mother's life and then it's like, it's too small for me and have to abandon that of me that was trying to be exactly like her so that I can now graduate and be exactly like me. think this is such a, I think that's the heroine's journey more than anything else. It's like, can I be okay to outgrow my mother now? Can I be okay to let her, which is me that I start life as, I let that go? It's fascinating. It's like all of these podcasts, interviews that I'm doing and worked in FemTech for 10 years before that. So it's like, yeah, I think we've got the feminine heroine journey a little bit to mirroring the masculine sometimes. I think. Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: I think that's a really common of how do I now step into the fullness of my identity as an individual separate from my Marissa: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we're just, know, I think my mom's personality developed as a result of a lot of things that she dealt with growing up and things like that. But I do see now, you was the disruptor. like I said, she wants to keep everything kind of the same and keep everything close. And me, her number one priority, leaving and disrupting was like a really big deal for her. But I've noticed. ⁓ that she to be getting a little bolder now. I just spoke with her ⁓ week and she was saying that she to maybe retire now and start traveling the US, like places. still, even that is a big deal for her to say that she wants to drive and take a trip. That's not something she have even done a few years ago. I think that me leaving. ⁓ And her having to come into acceptance with that has given her strength. And now she's to think like, ⁓ yeah, maybe there's more for me as well. So I think it's actually had a really good impact on her, even though maybe it was really hard. Kait Tregenza: course. As daughters, we challenge our mothers just by our very existence, right? And then when we pull away and not even physically or emotionally or mentally anything, just the pulling away is I'm going to have to be me now. I'm going to have to just only be in the essence of me. And that doesn't mean I love you less. That doesn't mean I dislike or disrespect or reject you, but it's meanness is too big for me to ignore anymore and I have to follow it. ⁓ Marissa: Yeah. Yeah. And I think she does want that. I think for her, it's a push pull, because I know she wants me to live the life that's going to light me up the most. I know she wants that for me. But then that means that she's giving up what she wants for that. in the end, she's being very supportive. I do go home twice a year, and it's like we do the countdown of when I'm coming back the whole time in between. But yeah, I just. I think she's grown as a person because of it. Kait Tregenza: course. I mean, you stepping into you a natural invitation for somebody else to do that. And I mean, that's what you are experiencing with your clients, right? Like you the, the note that you are inevitably requires anyone in field to be holding their note as well, because it's a non-negotiable for you. It's like, do you know much I had to go through in order to be who I am today? Like, no, I don't compromise on that. Marissa: Right. Right. Kait Tregenza: Because otherwise be back with my mom and I'd be doing those things and that would also make me happy. But it's not about just happiness, it's about who am I actually here to be and what am I actually here to do in the fullness ⁓ this life, right? And that's the invitation back to your mother. That's why she's like making these changes for herself and her boldness is appearing because it's like she's watching you every day be so brave. Marissa: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: That's how we heal mothers back in return, right? Marissa: Yep. Yep. Kait Tregenza: Okay, so you've moved to Portugal, you're doing this. do you then step into the business? How do you start? You could have done anything, right? You could have, like have so many skills, you have so much experience. Why was it, you know, abundance, mastery, identity, human design, and all of the layers of like the work that you do ⁓ in women live their truth as well and their abundant lives. Marissa: Yeah, was also a bit of a journey and I'll tell the story as quickly as I can. So basically, I was Lisbon and kind of settling into this new life in Europe ⁓ and being an I was like, OK, the next thing that was not feeling aligned for me anymore was working a full-time job. And I was surrounded by entrepreneurs. So that is really helpful too, because obviously the people that surround you really do ⁓ gain courage and things like that. And I was seeing, especially one of my best friends here now, running really successful, hers is of an online course company, and just kind getting from the people around me too of like, yeah, you could do this. And I'm like, yeah, I can do this. So I. I mean, was running other people's businesses. So excuse me, as a CEO, like I know how to run a business. It was more just like, okay, so can I be the founder? Can I do this for myself? So yeah, one day I just decided to take that leap. initially I actually of bridged it a bit ⁓ my goal when I left was, you know, I had worked with CEOs and founders and founders, especially for a good portion of my career. And I was really good at mentoring them. So I'm like, why don't I, I would love to mentor even more founders. Like that's what I love doing. That's the part of my job I love doing the most. so why don't I do that and create, you know, like a coaching mentorship business for founders. my first kind of like phase of that was ⁓ I made myself a fractional COO is what I called myself a coach, but I was really doing the same job I had been doing just like fractionally then for more people. And it wasn't the job I actually wanted to be doing. The operations part of it was the part that I had grown past, and it was more the emotional identity coaching strategy part of it that I liked the most. So I eventually had to that because I was feeling really burnt out. And when I stumbled into human design, was I was feeling super burnt out. knew that this business in this current form was not what I wanted. I actually was starting to think maybe I should just get a job again because I'm just working more hours and having to spend a lot of time in sales and marketing when I just really want to be doing the part I want to be doing and this isn't it. So I took a bit of a break, like a 90 day break to kind of recalibrate. 90 minutes. I almost said that. Yeah, 90 days. Excuse me, which was like a little scary too because I was like, okay. Kait Tregenza: 90 minutes. I took 90 minutes off when I was fine. Marissa: Basically taking a 90 day break, had and things like that that could support me, but I was like, well, if I'm taking a break, that means no clients are coming in or anything, but I really needed it. I was feeling very burnt out. So that's when I stumbled into human design. And when I realized, mean, it was like a massive awakening for me to understand myself in the ways that design teaches you how to understand yourself and how to operate and how to manage your energy and. And then I got into Gene Keys, which tells you more about you are actually here to do on this planet, like what your gifts are, what your unique genius is, all these things. I started, essentially it was validating for me. It validated all the things I felt guilty for before. As a manifesting generator, I pivot a lot. I follow my passions. And I had always either done that or really wanted to do that. But sometimes I was holding myself back because I felt guilty. Like, no, you should just be consistent and stick to one thing. But then I was like, no, actually, wait, this is how I make my magic. I don't have to feel guilty about this. And even just shutting that layer of shame and guilt was a game changer. And anyway, story short, what I wound up doing was reframing business. So I created a mastermind that I could, which is actually very tied into my Ginkgo keys of my life's work and all that. where I can bring female founders together. I can lead them on epic travel which is part of what I like to do. I can mentor them week to week. They can get a community of other like-minded peers that they get to grow together with. And the mastermind was just like, this is perfect. So I started doing that, and I felt so good about it. It's such a high vibe space. And then maybe about four or five months ago, I was like, I felt this like driving desire to bring like human design and gene keys and astrology insights to more founders. So I developed an app then that allows you to, ⁓ you just put in your birth information and then it takes all these, you know, methodologies and translates it into an entrepreneurial report for you that gives you like 12 codes on like how you're designed to run a business and how you're designed to manage your energy and all these. you know, really important aspects of actually creating a business that is designed for you and not doing what I did, which was like create some business that seemed like it was the right thing to do and then felt terrible. So now I'm like launching that and that's super exciting. So now I feel like I'm finally after this like year journey, I'm finally at a place now where I love the things I'm doing. I love my clients. I love the way my business is pointed. I love the impact I'm able to make for people because when they get their codes, they're like, ⁓ my gosh, like, you know, I've seen it. I've seen it change your lives and I've seen it change your business. So now I feel like after this journey, I'm finally in my impact and I'm lit up and I'm finally like, okay, you know, was all worth it. All the struggle, all the go, all the like courage, all the moves, like it's it. Kait Tregenza: Such an amazing way to let go the shame of doing something how ⁓ CEO whoever was, did their thing, right? You're like, it didn't work for me because it would never work for me. But you don't know that unless you know these details about yourself. And so even if you don't believe it, it's like reading this stuff that's so detailed and then following it and seeing the results. Marissa: Right. Kait Tregenza: That's the proof that people need, right? Marissa: Well, it's like half of it is the education. This is my experience at least. Half of it is the education of like, this is how you're designed to operate. These are the things that you're designed to doing in this world. This is the impact you're designed to make. And then the other half of it is essentially validation. It's like ⁓ all the things, like for just a tangible example. For me, I don't really enjoy creating Instagram content. Like that's something that... a lot of times with solopreneurs and kind of coaches and consultants and things like that, it's really encouraged that we are creating content all the time to advertise our business, right? And I came from businesses where we had millions and millions of followers and that's exactly how we drove all our revenue is through Instagram. And so was finding for myself, like, ⁓ just, it was a struggle. Like I really don't like creating content that much. And like I was making myself do it, but feeling very frustrated, which I'm like, okay, I'm out of alignment, but what do I do? need to like, have visibility and everything. then just my own report, you know, I was realizing, no, this is actually not at all how you should be marketing yourself. You are a relationship person. You're somebody that uses your voice. You should be speaking. should, you know, there's, there's all these different ways that you're actually going to be more magnetic. You're going to be more effective and you're only going to like, you know, kind of drive yourself crazy trying to do content creation. not for you. So even that was validating. So I'm like, OK, all these frustrating feelings I was feeling and all this guilt I was feeling of like I'm not myself enough and stuff like that. Instead, I took all that energy that was going into negativity and transformed it into, OK, well, how do I leverage my strengths then? And now I'm marketing my business in a way that actually feels really good. So it's really validating as well. Kait Tregenza: What are those ways that like that you're now doing instead? Marissa: So going to events and meeting people, running for communities ⁓ and you know, within sort of like existing communities through networking like the community leader, podcasting and doing stage and things like that too. Kait Tregenza: Amazing. And so that's the thing that like a lights you up and gives you even more energy. And then you could do that day in and day out. then you say to somebody, while I do these things, film me it. Basically. Marissa: Yes. And so I still have content. Yeah. And now I have a marketing team that is like creating content. And exactly like I'll send them and clips and things like that. But where I'm focused and where my energy is focused is in other areas, which are, they actually give me energy instead of, you know, draining it and making me feel frustrated. Kait Tregenza: Amazing. Yeah, yeah. the difference between a manifesting generator and a generator? Marissa: So there are some similarities in the sense that both generators have a generator in them as well. So both are designed to respond their environment. So neither a generator nor a manifesting generator is really designed to ⁓ create totally novel ideas out of thin air that's a manifestor. So we're designed to just essentially react our environment. And our environment is going to give us ⁓ stimulus things to react we're going to feel in our bodies whether or not this is something we want to react to or not or take. ⁓ a of times that's what inspires. So for instance, like me, the human design happened because I saw an ad on Instagram. And then I got curious and clicked into it and started learning. So it was like I was responding to my environment. And then I was like, ⁓ wait, I could create something even better with all this. then I got my idea for what I wanted to do to build the Power Codes app. So it's that, but the difference between the two is that a generator will often stick, a little bit more consistent on a path to not one thing entirely, but have a more steady linear path, whereas a manifesting generator is kind of all over the place in the sense that we pivot a lot and it's in those ⁓ It almost feels like ADHD in some ways, but in all these pivots is where we actually make our magic and could look very chaotic and nonlinear, but in the end, we actually can get something done very, very fast if we're plugged in the right way. I don't know if that makes sense. So I saw, it a visual analogy, but it was like one of the best ones, so I'll try to describe it, where it was like a split screen and it was like a generator versus a manifesting generator. Kait Tregenza: Got it. Marissa: And there was a woman who was books away on a bookshelf. And the generator essentially this box of books and put the books away one by one by one by one, right? And then the manifesting generator would put a book away and then something would get her distracted. So then she'd look over there and then she'd do something really quick that needed to happen over there. There was another book, so she grabbed that book, put it back on the shelf. Something else happened that distracted her again. So she went to this other thing. and then went down to the basement and there was another book, grabbed the book, put the book on the shelf. In the end, they both filled the shelf it's just the paths to get there were very different. Kait Tregenza: supposed to be a generator, but I think I could see myself in the manifest. I mean, I have a toddler, so like, my is about distractions at the moment. So I'm like, sometimes your life doesn't necessarily look like your human designer, right? Marissa: That's true. And I will say another clue between the two is a manifesting generator abandons a lot of things, to be honest, like starts podcasts and then ends them. so they try a lot of things, they start stop a lot of things. ⁓ And why a lot of manifesting generators feel very guilty for that, because overarching society will say stick to ⁓ your and stuff like that. But that's just actually not how we're wired to move. Whereas a generator is a little bit more. to reliable in that sense. And it with something. Yeah, committed to the course. That's a good way to say it, yeah. Kait Tregenza: Committed to the cause, whether it's working or not. Yeah. I guess the downside for a generator is you ⁓ going, you with your commitment or are you going with like, is this working? Cause that's like maybe the nuance there as well, right? Marissa: Yeah, and that's really important. So generators manifesting generators both are designed to be following lights them up. that's not say generators don't pivot. They just don't pivot as much as manifesting generators. But if you're starting to feel ⁓ frustrated, which your sign for you're not aligned and something is not lighting you up anymore, that's when it could be time to pivot from that because should always be on a path that lights you up. You're just a little bit more consistent about it when it does. But if something's not lighting you up anymore, then it's time to really respond to your environment and see is there something different that you should be doing and get a to go in a different direction. Kait Tregenza: And so for you, it been like every time you abandoned something now, is it a reframe around not abandonment, it's this isn't lighting me up, this isn't filling me up with energy, this isn't the next step that I need to do and it's just that was fun while it happened and now I'm moving on to the next thing or you still yourself personally feel that guilt, you know that, I didn't really continue on with that. Like how do you manage that? Marissa: I still feel a little guilt. still feel a little guilt. But I also, this just something I think of for me, but I think it's good advice to be careful as well that you're not giving yourself permission, like using this to give yourself permission to not follow through on things. Yeah, exactly. So ⁓ it's important to actually not just, that's a brain thing, right? That would be you using your brain to decide these things and that's not what human design is. Instead it's, Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Mmm. but don't gaslight yourself. Marissa: OK, tap in. me, I'm an emotional authority. So my decisions are going to essentially ride emotional waves. And I need to make a decision when I'm feeling neutral, not super excited, and not super low about something. So if I'm starting to feel like I don't want to do this anymore, right? I mean, there's a lot of things that we have in our lives that we don't feel like doing. It doesn't mean you don't do them. So then I'll be like, OK, is this me feeling like it's time to pivot away into something different? Or is this me just not wanting to do this thing? And then it's in with my body of what's ⁓ answer here? Do I actually feel frustrated, which would say I'm not aligned? Or is it just that this is something that isn't favorite thing to do, but it's not aligned for me? Kait Tregenza: So I'm an emotional authority as well. And since I came into fully understanding the nuances of all of this stuff, I put in a personal policy that has worked for me so well, which is I have 48 hours before I make decisions. Marissa: Yep. Yep, I do that now as well. And actually, that too, especially with a manifesting generator, but with anybody, ⁓ an emotional authority is super important because what I had done before is I get highs more than I get lows on my wave. And would make all these decisions from this place of like, ⁓ that sounds fun. That sounds exciting. And that seems like an excited yes me. So I would say yes to a lot of things. And then my wave would come down and I'd realize, ⁓ I just said yes because I was in a high, but this actually isn't the right thing for me. So then I was having to pivot even more because I said yes to a bunch of stuff I shouldn't have said yes to, and then it wasn't a line for me. So this is like a game changer when you realize as an emotional authority, don't make those decisions when you feel like that. Give yourself the 48 hours. Also don't make decisions when you're feeling really low about something like wait until you get that neutrality and then, so then you're not going to have to pivot as much because you're actually making better decisions for yourself. Kait Tregenza: to and then I put the second policy in cause that 48 hours of waiting and then the second thing that I did was when that highest high when that low is low that whatever that emotional charges the time that I go and I do form alchemy so whether it's ⁓ a process whatever the the charge is and I and I and I go through an actual sit down. you know, held process of alchemizing that, moving that out of my body, some kind of somatic release. And I find then the 48 hour policy actually can hold because I'm not looping in the background in that emotional charge that actually has nothing to do with the, decisions got far more to do with the, I don't know, whatever that trigger was triggering, right? Where it's like, I don't need to, Marissa: Yes. Kait Tregenza: worry about my trauma at seven years old when I'm trying to make this decision about whether I'm going to do this thing with this person, right? So it's like, deal the thing that's coming up because that's important. That's information, that's data, that's useful, ⁓ but not useful to the decision at hand to be made. Marissa: Right. Right, yes, I fully agree with that. Kait Tregenza: So those, those were some really valuable policies that came out. because I'm someone who has a podcast, it's like, well, some of those processes may be able to be a podcast recording. And so I'm like killing two birds with one stone and other ones that are just not, you know, nobody wants to hear me screaming into a pillow for an hour. ⁓ ⁓ content happy. ⁓ ⁓ this, Marissa: Yeah. Yes. Kait Tregenza: Um, this other thing, I don't know what your human design is, but I mean, I'm so far, I'm a generator, you're a manifesting generator. I'm emotional authority. So are you. I am a one three, which I can only describe as very challenging to not only understand, but actually find value in like, okay, this is, this is really great because Marissa: Bye bye. Kait Tregenza: Like what I've understood so far is like, you just have to try and you will flop on your face and you, and you, you know, you have to iterate and you have to get over it. But I am somebody who has grown up with good girl syndrome, perfectionism, high achievement, stakes failure, all of these kinds of things ⁓ years just intuitively, I was like, I need to start doing things that, I'm not good at. Marissa: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: so that I can learn graceful failure because it wasn't a celebration in my home growing up. And you know, it definitely hasn't been an aspect of me that I'm like, yes, I love failing. It's my greatest asset, you know? And even just definition of failure was very, very narrow of like trying and it not succeeding failure. Don't try again. Whereas like my actual design is going to just start and it's not going to work out the first time and you have to iterate. so from a personal perspective, that's my, that's literally my, like my karma because it's been so challenging to whether it's on social media, whether it's, you know, the way that I did this podcast even was just like, I'm going to record it with ⁓ no video I'm just going to make it live and I don't care. And I'm not looking at numbers and I'm not. It's going to be first pancake, but I'm going to leave it up. But in doing that, I have felt identity shifts, I also still feel those loops of like, somebody tells me they've listened to the podcast and I'm like, ⁓ my God, please don't ever, ⁓ can nobody listen? is terrible. Like just, I'm going to do it into the void where nobody, ⁓ so that's the challenge for me. Marissa: Yeah, and I for threes, ⁓ the thing that I like, ⁓ not a three, I'm a two five. But the thing I like, excuse me, to say to threes is you find the same way I find my magic by pivoting, even that feels bad a lot of times, you find your magic through experimenting ⁓ and it into trials and failures, into experiments. And more experiments you run, the closer you're going to get. to success on the other side. So a little bit of a reframe. don't know if that helps when you have that failure stuff really coded in there, but. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, it's interesting because the investigation stuff is like, that is like, could be a research, not in an academic institution or like somewhere where I have to like produce long ⁓ reports, but I could investigate for the rest of my life. So this is a form of investigation, right? Like interviewing people in discovering things. You I've, I've, I've been to about, I think something countries like, ⁓ I'm Marissa: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: I'm always learning the languages there. learning the culture. I'm like getting it. Like I am like this deep learner, but it's not learning. It's like, I need to know everything. Like, tell me more. Like of that to the point where it's like, ease up. Like this is just a person. So podcasting is really a need I need to ask the questions that I need to ask that are not socially acceptable. But it's the, it's the other side. It's the three, like the one side is really like very muscled, very developed. I think that's the most of the case for most, people. Nobody likes to go out and basically dive off a cliff and just be like, let's work it out. yep. Didn't land it. Let's try again. That's not fun. Marissa: Yeah, yeah. Well, and too, it's always, I mean, this is something I look at too, is like, what are the gifts of your numbers and what are the shadows of your numbers? It helps me to know the shadows and then to identify when I'm in a shadow and be like, OK, in your shadow right now, so get back, get back into the gift. And helps me. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: That's useful. What are the shadows of the two five? Marissa: So both of the numbers are actually kind of similar in the sense that there is a huge projection field on me. So people project onto me what they I can solve all your problems. ⁓ they, one is of like the leader archetype. So they assume that you're going to be the leader. It's actually like my mom is probably a very good thing. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: was going to say that makes so much sense that you're living out your human design in this relationship as well, right? Marissa: Yeah, so the biggest shadow for my type is accepting the projections and essentially is people pleasing, but it's like somebody puts something in on my court to handle, then I just handle it, even though it might not be mine to handle. They're just projecting, you know, and ⁓ this like they're not being evil or bad. It's just that's how I'm designed is that people are going to assume I can like solve all the problems and I can a lot of times I'm a good problem solver, but. it's really important for me to pick like have boundaries and say this is mine to solve and this is not mine to solve. So I was in my shadow for basically my whole life solving the problem, for instance, of like my mom as an example, like solving the problem that she needs me there. Like projecting onto me that like she needs me for her survival. She needs me for her happiness and these things. So then I was like, well, I can't leave, you know, but then it's like, no. ⁓ I can leave. is just, this is a projection. This isn't your re like your truth, you know? So for me, it's really making sure I'm boundaried and it's a struggle for sure. Cause I also want to help people and I want to solve problems, you know? Kait Tregenza: I think the most, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, I think the most valuable thing that I'm going to take away from this conversation is it's not just about knowing your human design for business or making money or for like, you know, managing relationships. It's, it's really like, how can you actually discover what your shadow is? Because in your case, you not have ever really ⁓ until like it got really, really sticky investigating. it even true that my mom needs me here and that I can solve that for her? Right. ⁓ if you go into the ⁓ work human design, ⁓ that's very different way of doing shadow work than like, how does something feel in your body? Like, right. That there is more mental approach to it, for some people might Marissa: Right. Right. Kait Tregenza: be a really, really good avenue into shadow work because they might not have full connection to their body or know how to do like that work in that way. And so the mental for going through of like where, are main shadows of, my human design these aspects of human design. Where could that be showing up in my life and how could I start thinking differently about it? You know, that's really, that's really powerful. Marissa: Yeah. Yeah. And for a two, five, or even a two, just or a five alone, you might take on so much that you crumble below the pressure because you're just saying yes to all these things that people are putting on you. again, they're not doing it in a bad way. They just assume you can handle it. And you don't tell them you can't, then why would they assume differently? ⁓ And it's been, I've seen the night and day difference of ⁓ me for my clients, over-functioning for just all my relationships in my life versus now I have much different boundaries. it's literally the knowing of this two-five thing and knowing like, ⁓ getting projected on right now. This is not yours. You'll into your shadow if you do this. It really helps me versus not having that framework to think about it within. Kait Tregenza: But I love that because what I'm like wondering right now is there must be so much nuance to people pleasing. So my way of people pleasing and your way of people pleasing won't actually be the same thing. But then when we talk about it collectively, it's like women, people please. It's like, no, actually they don't. They do very specific things according to their human design. So how, like, does that kind of look like for all the various different ways that. you know, you could be manifesting that as a various different, I mean, would it then affected by whether you're a projector ⁓ et cetera, et cetera, or would it just really come down to the numbers or the gates? Marissa: Mmm. I mean, I think the gates would get involved too. don't know if it's as simple as saying like all projectors would people please like this, like that. don't almost like have to think about that more. ⁓ But I think if you are. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Are these the kinds of questions that get answered in your app though? Marissa: Yes, because the app, gives you your initial, like what I've curated is like, I think you should know these things about yourself, these like 12 things, but then there's a chat feature. So you can like really deep dive and it's powered by cloud. can really deep dive into the specific, you could ask it like, Hey, what, like what's my brand of people pleasing? And it would tell you based on your, of your human design astrology and gene keys. so it's going to pull in the shadows of your gates and like all that stuff and help you understand. So. Yeah, in fact, I think I'm gonna actually like I love my app, like I use it. So I think I'm gonna go and ask this question. I I know what my shadows are for people pleasing, but I'd be interested. That's a good question. Kait Tregenza: I know, right? Because then I'm just thinking like you would go through like all of the major, you know, that collectively women are moving through at the moment and be like, but how does that manifest for me? Like give me the blueprint for how to rewire that make, make that change. But I guess where you come in as a coach is like, you can have all the information in the world. Marissa: Right. And then there is the implementing of, yeah, information is obviously the first step, but then it's, what are you doing with that information? And then it's the, okay, I'm starting to move with this information and now all this resistance is popping up or now I'm starting to feel fear or now I'm starting to avoid things or whatever. So then it's like, the way I like to look at it is like you have your codes that you were kind of born with, like that's your innate design. On top of that, have lived experience that will impact how, or not, excuse me, those codes are like, like how they're essentially being expressed ⁓ whether or not you even know about some of your powers and things like that. And then on top of that is conditioning. And so that's ⁓ I'm with clients, I know how they're designed. And then I can see, okay, like this resistance is coming up when it comes to maybe being more visible or something like that. Then it's like, okay. Kait Tregenza: Right. Marissa: we got to work with this. Then I see the symptoms, and it's like, OK, now we need to help transmute this visibility wound you might have or try to figure out what's going on. almost I don't know, you could look at it as a doctor in some ways. You see the symptoms, and then it's like, OK, now we need to figure out the treatment for these symptoms. And then it's doing the work to move beyond of these patterns and things like that. Kait Tregenza: What was the biggest change that you made in your life today? Like out of anything, just in your beginning of your story that we went into, but like in this expansion state, because I'm assuming if you've got this app and you're using it like any one of your clients would, you're like, you've got the most to gain from it, right? ⁓ you doing this daily or do you get to a point where you're like, I don't think that my identity can shift anymore. Like I'm good here. ⁓ Marissa: Mm-hmm. No, definitely think you can change a Yeah, for me, gosh, there's much. I feel like one of the biggest, again, sometimes this is validation, but one of the biggest impacts for me in all this information is seeing like, am I uniquely powerful? Like, what is my unique power? Like, what am I uniquely talented at that other people, like we take for granted what we're good at because we and we kind of a lot of times we assume that everyone's kind of good at these things because it comes natural. So for me it's really been like kind of this aha moment and realizing like these things that you have are actually really extraordinary and special. Like this is not everyone doesn't have this ability then leaning into those abilities and those things and then seeing the results in my business. So for example like one of Kait Tregenza: Yes, everybody can do it. Marissa: like one of my core life's work gates is the gate of the gatherer. And it's all about creating community and being essentially the queen of resources with the kingdom. You could say it like that. And the I was making myself wrong for not creating a lot of my own coursework and being a course creator and like, I don't know, doing the things that I saw other people doing in the industry. And then I realized, but I was drawn to just. creating spaces and bringing other experts in, almost like an Oprah, right? Like bringing other experts in and creating this like shared learning and shared development environment. And then, but I thought that was wrong, don't do it that way. And then I realized, no, that's like literally exactly what you should be doing. Like that's what you are really, really good at. And then the minute I like leaned into it, then all of a sudden I'm like having these amazing people in my mastermind that are having huge breakthroughs. And I'm like, oh, like this, I'm in it. Like this is exactly what I'm supposed to do. So it's... Kait Tregenza: Right. Marissa: in some ways validating that your impulses and the things that you might even take for granted sometimes that are just kind of come natural to you are actually your superpowers and lean into those things and then feel proud about those things. And the more... Kait Tregenza: Yeah. It is interesting that you're a COO though, because that's kind of like the same, the same skill set, right? Like bringing all these people together and making the, making the ship run smoothly kind of thing. Marissa: Yeah. Yeah, and yeah, in hindsight, like now I can look back and see, ⁓ you've actually been living your design. You've been drawn to it this whole time. You just didn't understand how to harness the power of it. And so that's a big thing. And so that's what I like helping people do is really harnessing that power. Because you're right, the information is only one part of it. But then what do you do with that information? And that's where you can become really powerful. And I think the more, for anybody, the more you Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Marissa: get into this and the more you start to appreciate how you're different and appreciate how you're uniquely, yeah, like powerful, I guess is the best word, vibration starts to shift and your frequency shifts and suddenly people are really like magnetized to you. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because like I'm even thinking about like, well, is the other reason why I was like, ⁓ there's a lot about my profile that fits the manifesting generator profile. Cause I've had so many, like when one life ends, nothing the previous one starts again. So it's like these, maybe it's not flitting and coming back to it, but it's like, maybe that's what you mean a generator can still pivot because like my pivot are like, Marissa: Yeah, yeah. Kait Tregenza: like chapter ending, like life, like they'd like deaths. Like there's nothing from the previous life that comes into the next one. And these chapters sort of, you know, oscillate between five and seven years. And then they're like, done, next, done, next, done. But like, there's a theme that runs through all of them, which is this deep investigation actually. So it makes, the other thing is I'm wondering if there's a part of me that didn't, you know, Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: didn't bring any of it forward was that that element of the fear of that failure as opposed to the iteration. And I'm just like, maybe that's part of how my shadow has been manifesting itself out as well. Marissa: Yeah. Yeah, and find the shadows to be some of, like understanding the shadows of your design to be some of the most useful pieces of it, because most of us are in our shadow in a lot of it, right? And so we've like consciously developed further than that. And exactly. now you might be in a situation where you're being called to experiment with something you know you could fail on the other side of it. But then suddenly you're like more willing to push through and do it anyway, because you know that magic happens on the other side of your experiments. So it kind of gives us some more conviction and permission when we know. Kait Tregenza: I guess it's like about setting up those neural pathways as well, right? It's like, this is part of it. So just leap, just leap, just leap, just do it. ⁓ Marissa: Yes. Yep. And then it gets more comfortable. Right. Exactly. Kait Tregenza: And I mean, all of these young kids that build businesses online in the open, that's like, that is like the purest terror that I would ever like being like, Hey guys, showing up to show you how I'm going to fail over the next three months. let's document it. And you know what? It like endears them to millions of people and everyone loves it. And you maybe. Marissa: you Kait Tregenza: I'm saying this because that's like, that's part of what I, part of the therapy maybe. Marissa: Well, and there's more to us than our of our human design. There's all these gates that we have. So you might have something specific. You might have a gate that is a pretty big for you that has a shadow. You might be in the shadow of it, which is you don't yourself to fail publicly. You don't allow people to see ⁓ the real But if you were to do that and allow yourself show that, then you might unlock something. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Marissa: Like I have something like this in my gates for sure. yeah, but it's how I find it really helpful to just know like, okay, you're in your shadow because for some reason there's something about that where I kind of want to conquer that. And I'm like, no, you're not going to live in your shadow. You're going to live in your gift. So you're going to do this and you're try it, you know? Kait Tregenza: Totally. So next year, there's big shift that's happening in the world of gene keys and human design into the, what's correct statement? The age the phenome, what is it? What's it called? Marissa: Yeah, I don't know it exactly either. But essentially, it's like a it's like a shift in the collective consciousness. And yeah. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. So we're coming into this Phoenix era, basically. And I only found this out after I went public and people were like, Hey, ⁓ that's really funny that you're doing Are you into human design? Because like your whole thing is about the Phoenix and rising from the ashes and like shifting collect like in the women rising. And I was like, what are you talking about? Tell me more. And then I'm like scratching the surface and knowing this, but it's Marissa: Yes. Kait Tregenza: so complicated human design. Like it's not just this one chart and then you like know it and you're done. It's like the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know anything. Marissa: Yeah. Right. that's why I, yeah, that's why I develop ways to like learn because it's almost like, and especially for a one, you would really like this, but it's almost like every day you could learn a little bit more. It's almost like learning a language, right? Where it takes a really long time to like gain mastery. But in a day you might have something where you're like, hmm, I wonder what this means or I wonder why I'm reacting this way. And then you can like ask like, okay, what is it about me that like, like, why am I being like this? And then, you know, like you learn little by little. If you try to master it all at once, I feel like it's impossible, to be honest. It's more about like... Kait Tregenza: Human design would never with like the day or the time or the year or anything like that. It's like it's pretty fixed. It's not like astrology in that way, right? Marissa: Well, mean, there can be There be impact of like transits going through certain gates and things like that. So ⁓ it it's more not like going to shift your design per se. more just like is a gate going to be like if you have that gate defined, is it going to be extra activated right now with this transit or something like that? But it's like you're likely not to shift as a person. You know what mean? Kait Tregenza: We got off on a tangent, I really want to, I really want, before we end, I really wanted to ask you so much more about the identity and like what people can really do in the action set. So they have this information, you know, they can, they can get as much information from, know, whether it's your app or cloud directly or whatever it is, you know, information is available. This is the age of like too much information. So I guess. Marissa: Yeah. Yes. Kait Tregenza: When it comes to like shifting and changing your identity, are the that you recommend? What are the takeaways for anyone listening to this who really, they kind of know what that identity is. And then, you know, obviously the human design and all of that can help them to come into a more complete of what that could be. But again, these are just visions or information. How do we bridge that gap between where you are? and where you want to be. Marissa: I mean, the simplistic answer to that is really clear on who is want to be stepping into. Who is this future self? What is this of this future self? What is this vision that you have? And to do that, that's a lot of visualization exercises and meditations and taking the time to connect with. get really clear on ⁓ who ⁓ is want to be stepping Who this future self? ⁓ What is this life of this future self? this future version of you, which is I didn't do this for so long, I didn't have this tool, which is why I of like stumbled around for a while, but like, can you get really clear and like tap into who that person is? You call it your higher self, you could call it your future self. And once you kind have that clarity a bit more about like the identity that you're stepping into, then it's doing kind of like looking at the gap of like, well, what's the gap between can you get really clear and like tap into who that person is? ⁓ You could call it your higher self, you could call it your future self. And ⁓ once you kind of have that clarity a bit more about like the identity that you're into, then it's looking at the gap of like, well, what's the gap between her and me, like, what do I need to change? And then it's a matter of small behavioral shifts that start to live that person as much as you can now. ⁓ And those small behavioral shifts will, reinforce your subconscious brain that like, ⁓ this is who are now. Your subconscious is like your identity, right? So it's gonna operate in ways that it feels is congruent to your identity. So now you need to shift. her and me, like, do I need to change? And then it's a matter of small behavioral shifts that like start to make decisions like that person would make in your day to day life, like start to live that person as much as you can now. And small behavioral shifts will, you know, reinforce your subconscious brain that like, ⁓ this is who we are now. Your subconscious is like your identity, right? So it's gonna operate in ways that it feels is congruent to your identity. So now you need to shift. what that looks like day to day. It happens in my opinion in small moves. It's not like this giant leap. You can do a leap per se into a new identity, but it's usually preceded by a lot of small moves. what that looks like day to day. It happens in my opinion in small moves. It's not like this giant leap. You can do a leap per se into a new identity, but it's usually preceded by a lot of small moves. when see yourself getting blocked in these moves, let's say your future identity is a big personal brand. I'm just going use something tangible. A big personal brand on Instagram. OK, well then you're going to have to create content daily. And so let's say you're struggling. Let's say you're feeling resistance around creating content. OK, well, that's not something your future identity, this person that has this reality, that they're not struggling with this. So let's identify why are you struggling? Do you have a visibility wound? Are you scared of being seen to fail? is it? And then you have to ⁓ in and start to transmute the wounds that are getting in the way of that identity shift. Kait Tregenza: and then go through them one by one by one by one, right? Marissa: That's it. Yeah, and I don't know that it's going to feel that linear, but yes, it's allowing your patterns to take over that are going to actually hold you back from being that person. But it's not just pushing through either. It's instead examining. It's like, well, what's going on here? Why ⁓ I feeling this resistance, and why am I not doing this? And then what do need to heal so that I can? Kait Tregenza: And do you set a date with yourself? Do you have this in your diary? Is this what you're doing? Is it a daily action, weekly action, something like that? Marissa: I'm not that regimented. Excuse me, I think some people could be potentially. I don't think there's a one size fits all of how to do it. just don't, I can't be that regimented with things. So no, for me it's not that way. It's more just being really conscious of these things and. Yeah, I don't know, just kind of living my life. It's almost hard to explain. It's like living life, but with this intention and this consciousness of where I want to be heading and where ⁓ person I want to be and pretty, as it shows up, I meet it, yeah. Kait Tregenza: As it shows up, you meet it. It's just, yeah. has been a really fascinating conversation. love the, you're very practical. You're such a C.O.O., right? Like you're just like, I not, most I not described as a purely practical person, although I can be practical. It's like, it's not my, it's not my leading, people can go. Marissa: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: She's so practical. So I really appreciate, appreciate when can like ground things, wring it down. Cause you don't do it in like a methodology way or like a, these are the five steps, but like you make it really tangible and you make it really like, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. I can do that. Yeah. This is not as hard you know, people listen to all these identity quantum leap coaches on Instagram and Marissa: you Kait Tregenza: You know, they give you like three seconds of information and people go, there's some kind of quantum field that I need to know how to step into and then magically move the atoms and the molecules around and then build a spaceship and go to the moon or something. And you're like, it's really, it's really just literally where do want to be? Where are you? And all of, all of a sudden we have this like fancy marketing language that means that you're quantum leaping and people don't know what it means, but it's like. Marissa: . Yes. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: moving to a point where you want to be. Marissa: Yeah, it's moving to a point you want to be. I think the leap part of it is kind of what I said of like, ⁓ these, you still need to do the small daily actions that start to reinforce this new identity, but then they compound. And one day you might just realize, ⁓ like yesterday I was still there now today I'm, I actually, I'm her. I feel like I'm her. And it does kind of, that part happens quickly, but it happens because of compounding actions. Kait Tregenza: ⁓ hey. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. people about how they can download your app, how they can work with you, how they can be involved in a retreat, all of the things about your universe, because you're doing so many different things. How people connect with you? Marissa: Yeah, okay. So I would love to offer the listeners a free month of Magnetic Power Codes because I really think you will absolutely love it. So it's magneticpowercodes.com backslash becoming flame. So very easy. Yep. ⁓ that's the best way to get the codes. And then you can follow me on Instagram at Marissa Leeson. We can it in the show notes probably easiest. ⁓ And I like I said before, I'm not... Kait Tregenza: Amazing. Marissa: create content, I'm not a daily content creator, but can find me there. And yeah, then I do, I run retreats. We actually have a sold out retreat that's happening. We leave on Saturday for Morocco. So I'm very excited about that. And that is Thrive Retreats, but that we won't have another one running until next year. So. Kait Tregenza: Have you been to Morocco before? Marissa: Yes, I've been a few times and then we were there a few months ago to the retreat sort of you know, finalized and planned. So I'm very, very excited about it. Have you been? Kait Tregenza: It was another one of those stories where I was like, I will go for a week and I ended up six months. One of them, I spent a whole month in the desert. Marissa: ⁓ amazing. Okay. Kait Tregenza: This was also before like smartphones and the things. And anyone who's, you know, age starts with a two, it wasn't that long ago that we could live in the world without a smartphone. am not a thousand years old. but yeah, I, I had ⁓ no communication anyone for like one whole month that I was in the desert. And I was like, I had a camel and a guide and me and. Marissa: Right. Wow. Kait Tregenza: He liked silence, so I either spoke to the camel or to myself or to nobody. In a weird way, it was my first unofficial Vipassana, but it was a deep, deep intensive Vipassana of being one month silent in desert. But is an amazing place. Again, a very interesting energy. You're attracted to some really cool places. Marissa: ⁓ my god, wow, what an experience. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, it would be interesting to decode one day, but I feel like that's a story I want to hear one day is the silence in the desert for many weeks story. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: sometimes I sat on mountains and sat silence. And then other times, because I'm fluent in and Spanish, and obviously I speak some English, I would be my translation skills, like, know, like, trilingual-y moving between, because that's like the main three lang- I mean, I don't speak Arabic, but those are the three non-Arabic languages that are spoken Morocco. But I did learn some Berber. I stayed in a, if you were interested in matriarchal or like feminine places, the Wazizet Mountains still have a lot of Berber communities that are matriarchal, which is a real juxtaposition of the very masculine, you know, obviously Saudi derived culture of the rest of the country. So that's if you ever get a chance to go and live in a Berber community, that will be Marissa: ⁓ cool. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: that will blow your mind. Marissa: Okay, I'm putting that on the list. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, yeah. one point, here's my investing. I'm going to end this interview at some point. But like after this, I was just going to say, like you've got me thinking about all this investigation stuff that I do. At one point I spent a year going around world, living and seeking out and then living in matriarchal communities, like an indigenous and minority communities. And that was a that was a really ⁓ fun. ⁓ Marissa: Okay. Wow. Kait Tregenza: year of my life. learned a lot. Marissa: Yeah, I imagine. these sort of like excursions that you do on the one. That's so interesting. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah, you've given me this whole different way of looking at my life. It's like, wow, I have a really developed one. I got to go and flex this muscle of the three and really, yeah, I'm challenged. Marissa: That's the challenge now, yeah. And then you'll find your power, then you're really powerful. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so unthankful in this moment, but I will be in one year time. So thankful. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. We'll put all of the details and thank you for the, for the, for the code for the app. I'm going to download it straight away. I'm going to ask all of these questions from the interview and then, let you know, how I go with it. It's going to be great. Marissa: Yeah. Yeah, you'll see. ⁓ Yeah, OK, sounds good. All right, thanks so much. Kait Tregenza: Thank you, bye.